Legs in the air.

(340 Posts)
Writerwannabe83 Thu 04-Jul-13 18:41:59

Hello ladies smile

A colleague of mine told me that in order to increase the chance of conception I should lie on my back with my legs up against a wall for half an hour post sex!!

Obviously I know it is silly - but I still did it last night!!! grin

Also - this is a seriously TMI question but I do need to ask it.

After sex, how much sperm do you find leaks out of you?? blush

Even after having my legs up for the wall for about 15 minutes I still found there was quite a lot of leakage when I stood up, haha.

I can't believe I'm talking about this!

I guess I just thought that all the sperm would be shot up to where it needed to be???

PuppyMummy Thu 04-Jul-13 18:48:02

don't worry it is! I asked this question at an appointment with fertility consultant! she said its pointless (I still do it!!!) the sperm swim to where they need to be, what comes out is seminal fluid.

internationallove985 Thu 04-Jul-13 19:17:39

That could be where I've been going wrong as I never hold my legs up after making love. Mind you I might as well be honest as you don't know me but my partner or rather friend with benefits does not know I am ttc, so I think he'd wonder why I had my legs up after the event! I see him Wed and Fri just to make love there is no commitment. Although there will be no love making tommorow as A.f arrived today (sad face). We are using each other, really. There is Absolutly no argument that what I am doing is deciectful I know that, but what do I do wait for Mr Right forever, and and needs can/do make a person deciectful. I am certainly not doing this to trap him. I mean once I am pregnant he is free to go or to stick around. If he does opt not to stick around well the world will still turn. It's not like I am a stranger to being a single mum. If I am lucky enough to fall pregnant I will just say it was a happy accident.
I find quite a lot of sperm leaks out of me. Carry on putting your legs in the air after making love it can't do any harm can it.
I guess all I can do is keep having fun trying and hope for the best.
Sorry for the life story. Good luck on your exciting ttc journey. xxx

CashmereHoodlum Thu 04-Jul-13 19:20:11

my partner or rather friend with benefits does not know I am ttc shock

Lemonies Thu 04-Jul-13 19:25:57

I knocked one out straight after sex when I was ttc.
I had read about the cervix contracting during orgasm so I would trot off to the lav with my dorty book.

Writerwannabe83 Thu 04-Jul-13 19:26:21

My friend is 32 and is going through the 'Do I wait for Mr Right forever' phase. She has desperately wanted children since she was about 20 but has never been able to hold down a relationship, let alone find herself with someone where they want to TTC.

She has queried going to the Sperm Bank but I wouldn't be surprised if she has a 'happy accident' one day too.

Writerwannabe83 Thu 04-Jul-13 19:26:54

Lemonies : your post made me laugh out loud!!!!!!


rootypig Thu 04-Jul-13 19:28:35

I put my bum on a pillow post sex when ttc. Figure a little gravity couldn't hurt. Legs up the wall a lot of effort though! grin

rootypig Thu 04-Jul-13 19:32:11

internationallove shock

How would you feel if you were in his shoes? For a decent person the choice is not to stay or go, but a sense of responsibility and connection to a child they would rather not have. Please reconsider, for his sake and the child's.

internationallove985 Thu 04-Jul-13 19:43:19

Hi Rootypig. I can't reconsider as this is something I want. (to be a mum again) and he has no issues about donating his product! Also he has never mentioned contraception so perhaps he thinks I have it covered or perhaps he is also hoping for a happy accident, who knows what goes on in a person's mind! Also I can promise I am not the only women on planet earth ttc in deceietful way and at least I am honest. xxx

Writerwannabe83 Thu 04-Jul-13 19:43:39

I also put a pillow under my bum and then I always swap it with one of my hubby's, lol.

I don't want to be sleeping in sperm dribble grin

seatfor5 Thu 04-Jul-13 21:49:51

i have done pillow under bum and legs in the air with my second DS TTC for 1 month smile am 3 months in now and did it again this month (first 2 months were more should we as have 3 DS all ready)

I have a friend who has had her coil removed and is going to TTC without telling her husband - He has said no shock

OhBuggerMe Thu 04-Jul-13 21:56:08

shock shock shock shock shock shock

That is all.

rootypig Thu 04-Jul-13 23:40:36

at least I am honest

You're not though - not with the man whose child you're trying to conceive, or with us, or even yourself.

I agree that he shouldn't assume you're taking care of contraception. I don't agree that that gives you the right to make this decision for him. Everything you say shows that, on some level, you know that's true. One level of honesty would be to say I know it's not on, but I'm desperate. But you're trying to convince us he's really ok with it. Well then, talk to him. Everything else is just an excuse.

ChubbyKitty Fri 05-Jul-13 00:42:04

I also don't like to sleep in a wet patch so I clench and scrabble around for some underwear blush

I have put my legs up the wall before but my side of the bed is right on the wall and I started to get uncomfortable so I don't bother anymore.

Writerwannabe83 Fri 05-Jul-13 07:14:11


That is bad about the Coil - how does your friend think she will get away with it??? Insane!!!

internationallove985 Fri 05-Jul-13 08:53:16

Hi Winterweannabe83. Sorry to jump in here, and this comment comes with no direspect but I think it's wrong of you to be judgemental to Seatfor5's friend.
She is broody, like you! and wants to become a mummy again just like you. Be totally honest what you do if you wanted to ttc but your D.H did not. Like I said desperation can make a person decietful. Remember it could have just as easily have been you in that situation, and you don't know how old her friend is time could be running out. xx

Hi Rooty pig. I am not trying to convince anyone that he's okay with it where did I say that! Also what is all this "us" business can people not argue themselves. I am being a coward here but there's no way I am not going to talk to him, for fear of him running for the hills. xx

What you friend told you Writerwannabe is a myth that still gets banded about. It is not necessary to hold your legs in the air post sex as enough semen will get to the cervix from where it cannot escape.

Post ejaculatory fluid is seminal fluid.

seatfor5 Fri 05-Jul-13 13:21:19

She is coming up to 40 and has twin who are 5 i dont know if she will go though with it I can understand where she is coming from but its not something I could do I just went on and on at my DH until he was so beaten down he gave in lol!

rootypig Fri 05-Jul-13 16:23:12

Hey international

'Us' I suppose was shorthand for whomever reading MN. Look of course I appreciate it's your life and you'll do as you wish! I just feel really strongly that men - well, anyone, but most likely to be a man - should not be deceived when it comes to the conception of children. Admittedly I am much more shock at Seatfor5's friend - because there has been an explicit no and that is a marriage, so the betrayal is worse and the consequences more significant, including for any existing children. And the partly unwanted child? and their relationship with the deceived parent? sad

Sorry if this is a bit pearl clutchy, but having a child is SO hard, I would be so upset and angry if someone forced this choice on me.

Agreed this guy you're seeing should glove up if he doesn't want children. But I can't help but think of him having to choose between being an absent dad or parenting a child he didn't plan on.... And how it might work out for the LO. (Don't get me wrong, I don't think lone parenting is remotely problematic, though can't imagine how exhausting - am talking about the effects of ambivalence on parenting.)

Can you not get your mitts on some donor sperm? Whether from a bank or willing direct donor?!

TeaAndANatter Fri 05-Jul-13 16:40:28

Love the bits in the thread about the 'dorty book' (and where can I buy one!!), and the 'pearl clutchy'. Completely going to use these in many RL circumstances!

Re legs up, I find that the act of moving ejects a fair bit of wet (so I get my partner to hoick me round if feeeling committed/desperate. Also, I try to get him to not make me laugh (because I 'spurt' when laughing after sex - sorry TMI), which is hard, because we laugh at really silly things during/after sex. Which may mean that we're doing it very wrong, or very right, depending on your required outcome!

Writerwannabe83 Fri 05-Jul-13 18:43:52

Internationlove, you said this: Hi Winterweannabe83. Sorry to jump in here, and this comment comes with no direspect but I think it's wrong of you to be judgemental to Seatfor5's friend.
She is broody, like you! and wants to become a mummy again just like you. Be totally honest what you do if you wanted to ttc but your D.H did not.

What did my D.H not do???

TeaAndNatter - nothing wrong with having a good laugh grin. Me and Hubby usually end up laughing because after we've DTD we always seem to find our cats at the end of our bed, their heads cocked to one side and looking very quizzical grin

internationallove985 Fri 05-Jul-13 19:13:57

Hi Winterwannabe83. Sorry for not making myself more clear. I did not accuse your "D.P" of not doing anything I said what would would you do IF your "D.H" did want to T.T.C but you did want ti TTC would you not be slightly tempted to take the route seatfor5's friend is taking. I am afraid this I.T.R.W and certain women including myself will be deciectful to get to try and get pregnant if they have an unwilling partner. xx

Writerwannabe83 Fri 05-Jul-13 19:26:36

I think I was more surprised that she'd had a Coil removed as that must be so much harder to explain away a 'happy accident' - if that makes sense?

At least if a woman stops taking her contraceptive pill and falls pregnant she can say it was an accident as the Pill isn't 100% effective, or she could say it happened because she'd been being sick for a few days etc..

But with the removal of a Coil.....how does a woman get round that?
At some point she'd have to admit to her husband that she had purposely removed it in order to get pregnant.

I can understand why she has done it - I'm just shocked/intrigued as to how she thinks she is going to get away with it. I'd love to be a fly on the wall when she has that conversation with her husband smile.

Mind you, I suppose she could always say it must have fallen out without her knowing....

valiumredhead Fri 05-Jul-13 19:49:24

I put my legs up the first month wee ttc, it didn't work, next month had a super quick shag and got up had a shower etc and fell pregnant with ds! When I tested positive I remember thinking 'but I didn't even put my legs

I've heard people use moon cups as well to 'hold it in place'

valiumredhead Fri 05-Jul-13 19:56:32

We not weeblush

Writerwannabe83 Fri 05-Jul-13 19:56:59

Moon cups???

Is that something I need to Google? lol smile

valiumredhead Fri 05-Jul-13 20:10:34

It's an internal silicone cup to collect menstrual blood-they're fab!-but I've heard women are inserting them after sex to hold the semen close to the cervix. Sounds like it would help imo.

rootypig Fri 05-Jul-13 20:24:40

I love my mooncup but the thought of it full of spunk makes me <boak> a bit! grin

ChubbyKitty Fri 05-Jul-13 21:17:22

I have to shut the cats out when we dtd. They're starers.

Writerwannabe83 Fri 05-Jul-13 21:23:08

I can't help but think of Moon Pig when I see the words Moon Cup grin

ShowOfHands Fri 05-Jul-13 21:29:35

Not only is there no point whatsoever putting your feet up after sex, it can cause UTIs. You should urinate quite soon after sex to flush out bacteria from the entrance of your urethra. Particularly important when ttc as you don't want an infection when newly pregnant.

A decent sperm will swim to where it needs to be.

valiumredhead Fri 05-Jul-13 23:18:25

If female orgasm helps as the cervix dips into the semen, surely you are mimicking that by raising your bum/legs?

CaipirinhasAllRound Fri 05-Jul-13 23:27:10

I'm in shock that people really say 'make love' (yuk), especially when it's sex with a friend for baby making sake

HadALittleFaithBaby Sat 06-Jul-13 07:51:26

I agree with show (long time, no see - how are you?). Any decent swimmers are straight up there regardless. Far better to get up and pee to prevent UTIs.

International - just confused and hmm

TeaAndANatter Sat 06-Jul-13 08:29:59

OOh (mooncup use) - hadn't even thought of that. Wow. Maybe a mooncup, then a headstand before breakfast. Kind of like a second shag without the effort! grin

Writerwannabe83 Sat 06-Jul-13 09:10:11

lol @ TeaAndNatter smile

A few weeks ago I needed to have a wee before we even started to DTD and so once we had finished I was absolutely busting!!

I ran to the toilet and relieved myself and it felt like all the sperm just dropped out into the toilet bowl, lol.

I was very disappointed with myself for not having thought of that happening grin

Vikkijayne2507 Sat 06-Jul-13 09:27:40

My oh was not really that keen at first not cos of the children he wants loads but cos of money issues. I went on about it enough times got myself a permanent full time job and said there are issues but they will decrease now and by the time if and when get prg we will be ok. Its interesting now hes agreed and been off the pill a month he is much happier and is now quite keen to get on and have kids I didnt think he would turn around that fast. I do think i would feel a bit funny about legs in the air afterwards

Writerwannabe83 Sat 06-Jul-13 10:57:33

Yep, it isn't that comfortable and the hard wall starts to hurt my heels after a while smile

I'm glad your husband has come round to the idea - hope you get a BFP soon smile

ShowOfHands Sat 06-Jul-13 12:45:45

Wotcha Baby. I am absolutely fine and dandy. I shouldn't be loitering round conception threads though as my dh booked his vasectomy yesterday. grin How are things coming along with you?

internationallove985 Sat 06-Jul-13 12:53:32

Had a little faith baby. Continue to be scepitcal and confused about my chioces should they be that important to you, but I will freely admit I've never had a problem being decietful to get what I want, and nor do I feel any guilt. xx

HadALittleFaithBaby Sat 06-Jul-13 12:54:38

Good good! Yes I'm well, currently feeding my 12 week old DD! She's quite scrummy and worth the 2 1/2 year wait in the end smile I think it's fine to lurk in conception to share the wisdom of experience!

HadALittleFaithBaby Sat 06-Jul-13 12:57:35

Ah right see that's where we differ. I'm a terrible liar and hate deceiving people. Each to their own I guess.

ShowOfHands Sat 06-Jul-13 13:55:20

You're very good to engage Baby. grin

And excuse me, but 12 weeks? How is that even possible? You got pregnant yesterday, right? I feel like my mother some days but gosh, time does fly. Does she do that thing where she wakes up from a nap and gurgles and flaps and tells you all about her dreams? I loved that bit. And the gummy grins and that milk drunk thing they do after a feed. And the sneezing. Ohhhhhh.

<cancels vasectomy>

I'm not sure it's some days whether it's wisdom or weary experience. Doesn't matter so much I suppose if the end result is the same. 12 weeks! <shakes head>

MagzFarqharson Sat 06-Jul-13 14:15:23

international please stop spelling deceitful wrong. How can you be so proud of living your life around so much 'deciet' - poor unsuspecting bloke, if it's just a fwb situation he probably has no idea you're ttc - there are unwritten rules you know. Him hoping for 'a happy accident' wtaf?

Are you just avoiding having to get a job by any chance, you decietful witch person?

valiumredhead Sat 06-Jul-13 14:30:26

Perhaps he should wear a condom if he really doesn't want a baby? Any man that doesn't has to expect an 'accident' even if the woman says she's on the pill, and according to international he hasn't even discussed contraception.

valiumredhead Sat 06-Jul-13 14:32:38

It is very rude to point out someone's spelling/grammar especially as this is an informal forum not an exam paperhmm

valiumredhead Sat 06-Jul-13 14:37:02

That doesn't mean I particularly agree with the situation btw but spelling is neither here nor there and all this pity for a bloke who won't even wear a condom? Oh please!

MissStrawberry Sat 06-Jul-13 14:44:42

Good God some of you sound about 12 years old.

What about the poor child who is going to be born or is it just about a cute little doll to dress up? I expect you'll be wanting maintenance from this poor deluded bloke and I 100% guarantee he does not want a "happy accident" hmm.

valiumredhead Sat 06-Jul-13 14:48:29

He should take some responsibility then and wear a condom. Why 'poor deluded bloke?' confused

MagzFarqharson Sat 06-Jul-13 14:49:03

valiumredhead why is it rude to point out spelling mistakes, but it's ok to land a bloke with x amount of years of child maintenance - decietfully?

Writerwannabe83 Sat 06-Jul-13 14:54:27

I agree - you need to think of the child, not yourself.

Say your FBW decides he doesn't want anything to do with you or the baby??

Which is a very real possibility considering you have deceived him to get pregnant behind his back.

How are you going to explain to your child why s/he doesn't have a daddy?

Dad's have a huge role to play in bringing up children and to deny a child that male influence just isn't right.

I absolute love my dad and when I was growing up I thought he was the most amazing person ever - I can't even imagine not having grown up with one sad

No child should be forced to grow up without a dad - especially a dad that wants them and loves them.

I agree that your FWB should definitely wear a condom and he has been an idiot really for not even discussing contraception with you - BUT - that doesn't mean you have the right to make such a monumentous decision to have a baby without his agreement.

valiumredhead Sat 06-Jul-13 15:05:29

Good post winter

internationallove985 Sun 07-Jul-13 17:52:43

1 Where did I say I was proud of what I am doing, but for the record I will/ do climb over people to get what I want I always have and I always will.
2 The reason why I am ttc is my business and my business alone. How dare you assume that I do not have a job! Whether I work, what I do for a living is my business. CERTAINLY NOT YOURS!!!! Are ttc just so you can 12 months maternity leave? You're not the only one who can jump to conclusions.
4 I am using a man for sex, so what! He ain't complaining!
5 if I do get pregnant I am not forcing him to stick around, but if he doesn't like it my reply will be "What did you think was going to happen when we having unprotected sex".
6 It may come as no shock to you but I do not give a hoot about unwritten rules. x

Writerwannabe83 Sun 07-Jul-13 18:01:51

5 if I do get pregnant I am not forcing him to stick around, but if he doesn't like it my reply will be "What did you think was going to happen when we having unprotected sex".

Does he know it is unprotected though?
i.e does he know you aren't using contraception?

Mind you, even if he does think you're on the Pill, it isn't 100% guaranteed to prevent pregnancy, so really, he should be using condoms too if he wanted to be completely sure you wouldn't fall pregnant.

Maybe you should just ask him outright about TTC - you said yourself earlier that he might be after a 'happy accident' himself??

internationallove985 Sun 07-Jul-13 21:06:20

Hi Winterwannabe83. I can't risk talking to him about it. I tried being honest once (about a different situation) and it blew up in my face so never again! and the older I am getting the easier I am finding it to be scheming.
Like I say he might be all for it but then again he could run a million miles. xxx

Writerwannabe83 Sun 07-Jul-13 21:11:34

How long has he been FWB?
And is it an exclusive situation you both have?

If so, it may be he feels something for you if he isn't seeing any other women?

Could you see yourself ever being in a relationship with him??

Writerwannabe83 Sun 07-Jul-13 21:12:33

And how old are you both if you don't mind me asking?
Does he have any children already?

internationallove985 Sun 07-Jul-13 21:20:41

I met him in May. we had well what I thought was going to be a O.N.S. He asked for my number and we have been seeing each other Wed and Fri. He is nice, we get on well but there is no emotional attachment there, and I call it making love which probably make a mockery of it! but I hate the word shag, it sounds so degrading but whether I like it or not the true analysis is and it makes me cringe to write this word but regardless or whether I like it or not he isn't making love to me he is shagging me!
I suppose I am hoping to ttc rather than ttc. xxx

Writerwannabe83 Mon 08-Jul-13 08:26:30

Well, just be careful that he isn't having unprotected sex with other girls as well as you.

Nothing quite like an STI to ruin your infertility.....

Suzietwo Mon 08-Jul-13 09:16:47


OhBuggerMe Mon 08-Jul-13 18:23:49

I'm still shock

You've known him since MAY!!!! 2 months. Jeez.

biscuit biscuit biscuit

rob99 Mon 08-Jul-13 18:35:37

Jesus, I can't believe what I'm reading.

MissStrawberry Tue 09-Jul-13 20:31:07

It really is so depressing.

Having a baby is such a huge thing and there are people who decide someone they barely know is the right person to be a father to their child.

Grow up, seriously.

Bunnygirlie Tue 09-Jul-13 21:54:22


Bunnygirlie Tue 09-Jul-13 21:54:46


ZolaBuddleia Tue 09-Jul-13 22:04:27

International, have many children do you have, and what will you say to them/him/her about where the new sibling has come from?

newforest Wed 10-Jul-13 07:59:23

It is pretty disgusting to treat another human being in that way. Having a child should always be a choice made by both parties. It shouldn't be assumed because he hasn't asked about contraception. There is every chance he thinks you are on the pill etc because you haven't mentioned using condoms. I know someone who did this to a man and she is now disliked by all her friends and the man in question has fled to another town.

Writerwannabe83 Wed 10-Jul-13 09:46:10

And it is the poor child that suffers.

Also, even though the man has fled (understandable?) for the rest of his life he will always be plagued by the knowledge that somewhere out there is his child - what a pressure to have on you. What if 10 years down the line he realises he wants to meet his child, how does he know where to find him/her.

And what example does it set to your child when you explain that in order to have him/her you deceived a man you hardly knew and it is your fault she doesn't have a biological dad?

The whole picture is very tragic really sad

MissStrawberry Wed 10-Jul-13 12:00:02

No, not understandable for a man to flee when the woman he was sleeping with got pregnant. Men should always use a condom even if the woman says she has been sterilised. STI's, anyone?!?!

Writerwannabe83 Wed 10-Jul-13 15:53:38

I meant he might flee if he knew she was purposefully tricking him in order to fall pregnant. I Should have been clearer, sorry.

I was talking about this kind of thing to my husband last night (about the wife who had her coil removed behind her husband's back even though he had said no to more children) and I asked him if he could ever stay with someone that he knew had deceived him in that way. He said absolutely not and he was horrified to think it would even happen x x

newforest Wed 10-Jul-13 21:49:12

Regardless of the fact men should always wear a condom, at least with a casual partner, tricking someone into creating another person is one of the worst kinds of deceit. Having a baby is a huge responsibility; it is a life choice which should not be forced on any person, man or woman.

RaRaZ Thu 11-Jul-13 12:28:52

International, how can you not see what a terrible thing you are doing?! Ofc your FWB is an idiot for not using a condom, but that's a different argument - you are actively ttc with a man who not only doesn't know this, but also most likely doesn't want it! I can't understand how you can possibly think this is ok. It's not fair on the man, not fair on the child you may have (and, for the first time ever on these boards, I'm seriously hoping that the OP is not successful in ttc), and not not really fair on you either - who are you planning to turn to when things get tough during the pg? Who's gonna hold your hand when the pain of ligaments stretching makes you cry? Who's gonna comfort you if you mc? Who's gonna be excited with you when your waters break? Who's gonna be there with you when you're in labour? No doubt you're going to say either that you have a friend/mother you can rely on, or that you can do it all on your own. Are you going to be honest with your friends and family and the hospital staff when they ask who (and where) the father is? Are you proud enough of what you've done to stand up tall and say to people that you tricked a man into fathering your child and that the child will never know their father because of what you did? Can't imagine that even in your skewed world many people are ok with that.

On another note, have you heard of sperm banks?? At least the men who donate KNOW what they are doing and are prepared to be fathers at least in one sense of the word.

I sincerely hope that you are not planning to make your FWB pay child maintenance when/if the time comes. Is that all you want, sperm and a little money? You were outraged when someone suggested before that you were just ttc so you didn't have to work, so I'm assuming you do work. Surely, then, you should have enough intelligence and be surrounded by enough normal people to see that what you're doing is WRONG. You are the very definition of a predatory woman, and that is not something to be proud of. I think you've done the almost impossible and shocked the Mumsnet community. Well done you.

HadALittleFaithBaby Thu 11-Jul-13 13:04:04

RaRa just to say - I totally agree with you - but it's not the OP who is TTC with her FWB. International posted later and that's what this thread appears to be focused on now.

Writerwannabe83 Thu 11-Jul-13 18:43:18

RaRa, what a very good post, lots of good points raised and well said smile

I will forgive you for saying you hope the OP doesn't conceive smile. I promise not to hold you responsible if I get a BFN grin x x x

RaRaZ Thu 11-Jul-13 19:57:41

Ooops! Yes, very good point there - my apologies to the true OP and her (willing!!!) partner! I would say, Writer, that being in an honest relationship where ttc is what you both want and are both aiming for, is a damn good start and makes you far more deserving and far more likely to make a good parent. Fingers crossed for you!

TeaAndANatter Thu 11-Jul-13 20:08:29

I'm torn between feeling very much that I agree with every point made about this topic (not the original post, writer!), but also feeling uncomfortable at reading posts suggesting that the whole of the mumsnet community is shocked. I'm not. I disagree with it utterly. I wouldn't dream of doing it for all sorts of reasons both already suggested, and not yet mentioned. I think it's morally abhorrent. But at the same time I feel uncomfortable when we women talk as packs against one of our sisterhood.

I saw a fab woman once talking about women judging other women's choices. I appreciate completely that this poster's choice is one that many of us feel is unjustifiable, but the phrase (and I warn, it's a touch crude) that I heard kept popping into my head: 'what you eat, I don't shit'. I took it to mean that your choices are not my choices, and it's not for me to judge them. It's hard to do that when you read something that feels so much that it will inevitably impact upon an unborn child, but at the same time there are many inspiring, strong single mothers on mumsnet through choice, or partner's death, being left, that manage this on their own. It's pretty fricking far from ideal, but there you go.

Hope this post makes my point clear and inoffensive to all previous posters. Not condoning, but not being the first to launch a flaming pitchfork either.

With love,

valiumredhead Thu 11-Jul-13 20:13:38

Tea-glad you posted that as I'm certainly not shocked or clutching my pearls in horror.

TeaAndANatter Thu 11-Jul-13 20:15:21

Totally adore this pearl clutching thing. Must remember to use it in everyday life. x

RaRaZ Thu 11-Jul-13 21:19:40

I'm not shocked in the sense of being naive or thinking no-one would ever do that kind of thing, but I AM shocked in the sense of being disgusted by the behaviour mentioned. To me, it is morally wrong, and I cannot understand the mindset of anyone who thinks it is right. No pearls are being clutched, but I am strongly against what she is doing and I think it is unforgiveable.

Writerwannabe83 Thu 11-Jul-13 22:47:25

RaRaz : Hubby is definitely willing. In fact I'm off to drag him to the bedroom now, lol grin. I think we are coming towards the end of my fertile time. However, my plan is to DTD every other day until either my period arrives or we get a BFP grin

RaRaZ Thu 11-Jul-13 23:43:47

Enjoy!! grin wink

internationallove985 Fri 12-Jul-13 14:16:29

Razraz. I've shocked the whole of the mumsnet community. I very much doubt it. I could be wildly wrong here but I would imagine the mumsnet community have got better things to worry about than what I am doing.
And the whole top and bottom of it is In a nut shell it is none of your damn business whether my F.W.B knows I am ttc or not. Harsh words but true. I can hear the words "He who is without sin cast the first stone", ringing very loudly in my ears as I post this message. x

internationallove985 Fri 12-Jul-13 14:17:52

Sorry Razraz should be Raraz. x

TeaAndANatter Fri 12-Jul-13 15:11:24

Hi RaRaz, I don't disagree with any of what you've said (I'd agree with 90% of it couched in slightly different language actually), but I'm uncomfortable with the way the thread was becoming a court of judgement. It's a tricky balance, because of course the community is a place for debate and dissent, and heated discussion is part of that, but there's a line where it feels like the point has been thoroughly made, and either people are going to hear your valid concerns, or they're going to go their own merry way with that. At that point, I worry that our comments can escalate until it can be (more generally than this thread) a deeply personal war of words in which everyone says things that don't particularly reflect exactly who we are, or what we mean.

Hope this makes some sort of sense, yours in mumsnettery x

PS - Tell you something that shocked the hell out of me while we're at it, I saw an old lady use her walking stick to poke a young man out of her way on to a packed train on the way home. The grin on her face whilst she did it was a bit shocking ;-)
PPS - Can't wait for getting a stick of my own.

IrnBruTheNoo Fri 12-Jul-13 15:47:23

There are lots of women doing what international is doing, it just isn't spoken of much. I personally couldn't do it, but each to their own.

As for the OP I'd say waving your legs in the air won't make a jot of difference. You can conceive without waving legs in the air.

RaRaZ Fri 12-Jul-13 19:48:20

If it's none of my (or presumably anyone else's) business, International, why did you bring it up?? No-one asked you to disclose it, though I get your point that it's not up to me to judge what you're doing.

OP (the ACTUAL OP this time - my bad!) - I've just lent a book from the library called Eating for Fertility. It's about a fair bit more than just diet actually, and one of the things it suggests is that to use gravity to your advantage when ttc ie finish with the man either on top of you or behind you doggy-styley, or to stick your legs in the air immediately afterwards. Obviously plenty of people conceive in all manner of positions and some wouldn't entertain the notion of putting their legs in the air afterwards, but I for one am trying what is suggested in the book - I've had enough problems of late without ignoring what could be very sensible advice. Certainly can't do any harm (that I can think of)! Good luck with it!

IrnBruTheNoo Fri 12-Jul-13 20:46:50

Someone else has already pointed out that you're less likely to end up with a UTI if you use the toilet immediately afterwards. By trying to keep the seminal fluid in by sticking your legs in the air for a set amount of time, you're increasing your chances of catching a UTI.

Writerwannabe83 Fri 12-Jul-13 22:06:30

I've been sexually active for about 15 years of my life and in all that time I've probably gone for a wee afterwards about 10 times, lol grin
Never had a UTI yet grin
So I'm happy to take a miniscule risk of getting a UTI in order to increase my chances of getting pregnant, lol. grin

RaRaz - I always make sure we finish with hubby on top and I make sure he's pulled in tightly, haha grin He probably likes to think that I 'like it deep' but really all I'm after is his sperm!!! grin

internationallove985 Sat 13-Jul-13 18:46:45

RaRaz. Why did I bring it up? Well that's a valid question I suppose. However I am just as allowed on these threads as those with a "willing" D.P D.H also I feel I am getting at you but that is certainly not my intent, but I am disapointed that you say or words to that effect that I am not deserving to fall pregnant just because I am not with a d.p/d.h. Well I consider myself to be a very good parent to my existing child as I will be to my hopefully future child. Also prior to having my D.D I did suffer a miscarriage did I deserve that because my angel was the product of a O.N.S. No I didn't. In a nut shell what I am trying to say is "My child/ren are as precious to me as yours are to you. xx

RaRaZ Sat 13-Jul-13 21:12:31

Writer : I love it! Given me a good grin after a very long shift! grin

International : That's a fair point, and actually I agree - you ARE very much allowed on these threads. I was wondering why you brought up that particular contentious issue when you must've known you'd get some pretty strong opinions on it and when you clearly don't want to hear them, rather than questioning your presence on, or use of, Mumsnet as a whole.

I don't think you're not deserving of falling pg because you are not with a DP/DH; my problem is with the DECEIT rather than the lack of a stable relationship. Out of interest though, did you intend to fall pg from the ONS?

internationallove985 Sat 13-Jul-13 21:24:32

Yes I did intend to fall pregnant from the O.N.S. xxx

OhBuggerMe Sat 13-Jul-13 21:35:03


Just saying

I did the legs above head on the bathroom floor when ttc ds grin df used to look at me like i was kooky if I did it in bed! We fell within weeks with him but I blame df's super sperm for that seeing as we weren't trying for dd2 and I still fell hmm

Writerwannabe83 Sun 14-Jul-13 11:23:11

How did the ONS react to the pregnancy news?

IrnBruTheNoo Sun 14-Jul-13 11:26:11

Loads of women go out to get pregnant from ONS, especially women who are in their late 30s, or early 40s... International is not alone here....especially when time's of the essence and you've not found the right partner and your biological clock's ticking away. You'd do it with a tree if it got you pregnant, I'm sure. Who wouldn't. Once you're no longer fertile you don't get the choice at all. Think of it on these terms...

It's a bit harsh to be judging, tbh. Until you've been in her position it is not right to cast stones. I personally wouldn't do it, I'd probably adopt or foster children, but each to their own. We all make our own choices and have good reasons for them.

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 11:47:04

Hi IronbruTheNoo. Thank you for you kind none judgemental words. xx
Hi Winterwannabe 83. I didn't tell him. xx

Writerwannabe83 Sun 14-Jul-13 12:41:48

So he doesn't even know he has a child?
How can you think that is ok? Doesn't your daughter deserve to have a dad?

I don't mean to sound judgemental so apologies if do cause any offence but I just struggle to get my head around all this. Wouldn't you rather have children with a man you want to be with?

You haven't said how old you are, but is the situation with the ONS and now this FWB because you are worried about your age?

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 12:47:57

The baby I concieved through the O.N.S ended in a m/c at 6 weeks or if you prefer 4 weeks conception.
And my existing D.D dad doesn't know about her. I had my reasons, and my daughter is fine.. xx

Writerwannabe83 Sun 14-Jul-13 12:51:37

Sorry to hear about the miscarriage sad

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 13:08:10

Thank you. It was a while ago now, but there's not a day goes by when I don't think of her. I know it was a girl I had dream about her when she came and kissed me on the cheek. I instinctivley knew it was her. I woke up with a tear running down my face. I feel like she's with me all the time anyway. xx

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 15:18:01

Hi international, found you from hte other thread.
I see that soem of the questions have already been answered.

I suppose I am curious above all.
Curious that you are talking about it on 2 threads. Amd I wonder why.
I dont agree with a poster on here who said that MN would be shocked. I could be wrong, but I dont find MN that shockable.

I think, and I could be wrong, that you do feel guilty.
Or it could be a case of a bit of attention seeking, saying it on MN.

I wasnt sure, from what you have already written, and I do not get all the acronyms on this thread, if your DD was conceived in this way as well?

These are not the original questions I was going to ask, but never mind.

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 18:55:52

Hi Yamsareyummy. I'm glad you found out all you wanted to know, but to defend myself it was another poster that mentioned about what I am doing on the Chat thread. xx

MrsWolowitz Sun 14-Jul-13 19:42:09

Go to a fucking sperm bank!

Don't con some poor unsuspecting bloke!

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 19:57:05

Yes, so it was. Sorry international.

I do have other questions actually though.
I was wondering
do you like him
does he like you
is he married
did you know him before you started the weds and fris

You dont have to answer those.
Actually I have one more after that, if you are ok with it.

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 19:59:05

I think I will ask it now.
Being gentle, do you think you are doing all this to replace the little girl that you miscarried?
[I realise that may be too hard a question to answer].

AuntieMaggie Sun 14-Jul-13 20:44:22

I was actually wondering if I should be putting my legs in the air so glad to see it makes no difference grin

Started ttc a few weeks ago and still getting used to the mess - I like Writerwannabe83s idea of using DPs pillow and swapping it so I might have to try it wink

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 21:40:09

Hi Yamsareyummy. I already have a D.D and she was not a replacement for the baby I lost, as I believe life is so precious that it can't be replaced.
I only became broody in March and I started trying in April. It (broodiness) just came from nowhere. There was a time when I was thinking about sterillisation and my friend said "No, don't because you might wake up broody and not know why, and it seems she was right! xx
Do I like him.... I certainly can't say i dislike him, but I doubt we'll ever get married, but as the saying goes never say never
Does he like me.... Well he does at the time.. I'm sure you get my meaning
He was initially O.N.S but he asked for my number and we see each other twice a week.
His he married.... Well I honestly don't know that do I... xx

RaRaZ Sun 14-Jul-13 21:56:42

You are sure in an 'interesting' situation, International. I don't like what you're doing (as I've said - I don't mean to go on about it), but I find it interesting. I'm ttc atm and it hasn't worked instaneously. As I had a mc before this, I'm struggling and taking herbal ADs. I can kinda understand a person's desperation to conceive, though I wouldn't be so arrogant to compare myself to people who have tried and failed for years. So I guess I'm trying to say I can kinda see your reasons though I would never go with your method.

Can I ask:

Would you have told the ONS if you hadn't lost the baby?

Was your DD conceived with a ONS/FWB?

How old are you?

Goes without saying - I hope - that you don't have to answer those. My nosiness is my problem! I sure envy your fertility though - it sounds like you've got pg exactly when you've wanted to so far.

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 22:32:10

Realistically, he probably is married.

You are afraid to ask too many questions. You probably dont want to know at this point.

I have to say it is nothing like my life, so I struggle to understand.

My guess is that your childhood wasnt straightforward?

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 22:48:50

Hi RaRaz. Would I have told the O.N.S if I hadn't lost the baby.... Honestly I'm not really sure...
My D.D's conception... I met him in a pub on a Tuesday night. We went on the Friday dtd, but decided we weren't suited... I don't think I suit anyone! The mold was certainly broken when I was made. I can tell you. I didn't tell him about D.D. I had my reasons. xx
HiYamsareyummy. My childhood was fine thank you. Let's not get too personal. My life is nothing like yours, so. You struggle to understand Well I do apologise but we can't all be perfect!. xx

yamsareyammy Sun 14-Jul-13 22:57:26

I try not to judge people, only behaviour.

Right near the beginning I think you said you do not feel any guilt. Is that any guilt about anything you do?

valiumredhead Sun 14-Jul-13 23:03:40

IF he is married then he should wear a condom. IF there is a baby then it shouldn't really come as a surprise seeing as he hasn't ever discussed contraception

6 of one and half a dozen of the other as my nan used to say.

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 23:05:06

Of course there are things I feel guilty about... I'm a human being, but letting a man use me for convenient sex is not one of them because I can promise you he is just as eager as I am... I'm not going to come on here and say sorry for being broody... xx

valiumredhead Sun 14-Jul-13 23:24:36

Nor should you.

valiumredhead Sun 14-Jul-13 23:24:58

Say sorry I mean.

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 23:31:11

Hi Valiumredhead. Thankyou for your kind words. xx

FrankSpenser Sun 14-Jul-13 23:37:15

You won't outright tell him what your do because you know deep down he'll put a stop to your 'appointments' and you'll never see him again.

I grew up without my dad. Didn't know him, what he looked like, why/how he and mum met and splitt. Mum delibratly kept me in the dark about him and very mistakenly believed I could skip through life not needing to know him. It didn'tmatter to her, because she was selfish and naive.

I still had issues that I carry with around with to this very day and I dont think they'll ever really leave me. just consider your children just may subjected to similar. And its really grim.

FrankSpenser Sun 14-Jul-13 23:40:34

Whatever you decide to do....either way, something ill thought may come back to bite you in the bum in the least expected way, wether months from now or decades later.

There are other ways, if needs must that arent so immoral.

Lesser of two evils, for turn of phrase.

internationallove985 Sun 14-Jul-13 23:50:16

Hi Frankspenser. Of course I'm not going to tell him about my plans. Well I may more likely will not get what I want if I'm honest. Like I said previously I was honest once and it came back to bite me so ever since then I've been decietful. xxx

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 07:30:37

Do you mean that you were honest with him once about something else, and it came back to bite you?

And are you taking a risk that your new son or daughter will not be like FrankSpenser?

Vikkijayne2507 Mon 15-Jul-13 07:40:12

Ive been reading with interest, and I just want to give a little word of warning to international. My partner had a ds with his ex. She was 5 months prg when he found out accidently she was prg (they had spilt soon after she got pg and she had told him she was on the pill) She did everything to keep him away from ds we went through the courts etc etc and we now see him most days and weekends and holidays.

Just be prepared for him actually wanting to be in the childs life more than you want if you are successful. I dont know you or him and so cant and shouldnt pass judgement

RaRaZ Mon 15-Jul-13 07:46:31

Re Frank Spenser's post, International (I'm assuming this is in a similar vein, but apologies to Frank if not): are you aware of the stats on children, especially girls, brought up without fathers? The huge rise in problems such as (extremely) underage sex, inability to form adult relationships with men, drug abuse, confidence issues, and mental health problems when compared with girls who have fathers in their lives? Ofc, plenty of children are brought up without a father through no fault of theirs or their mothers, but it seems risky and unfair to me to deliberately inflict this on your child/ren.

Also, as a point of interest, you've said that you 'don't dislike' your FWB. If he's not all that important to you and you don't have any strong feelings for him, why is he good enough to father your child/ren? That seems odd to me. As an accident, yeah, but personally I can't imagine planning to have a child fathered by someone who wasn't aware and for whom I had no particular feelings.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 08:13:01

I agreeRaRaz, plus, what is this guys history? You say yourself you don't even know if he is married yet you are prepared to have a child with him? And if he is married, does he have other children?

Your unborn child could have brothers and sisters they would never know about?

And if he does have children, maybe he hasn't discussed contraception with you because he's had a Vasectomy??
You'd be wasting your time then wouldn't you?

Or on his side of the family there may be a serious genetic related health problem that you would then be inflicting on your daughter without your knowledge. Physical health problems or mental health problems, you just don't know.

There are so many risks involved in having a child with a man you don't know - they may just be providing sperm but that sperm may be holding a lot of DNA/Genetics that you really might not like.

But most importantly, as has been said my myself and others, for a child to purposefully be raised without a dad is heartbreaking, it really is. Like I said, I can't imagine my life without mine - even though I'm 29 years old he is everything to me.

Are you close to your own dad? Maybe your relationship with him is having some impact on your thoughts about it not mattering whether your children have a dad or not?

FrankSpenser Mon 15-Jul-13 08:25:12

Correction Yams: International IS taking the risk.

FrankSpenser Mon 15-Jul-13 08:36:15

Excellent point made regarding Vasectomy.

Excellent point made regarding DNA/Genetic traits.

When I was pregnant and having the standard appointments with the midwife, all kinds of questions were asked regarding health issues within the family. ie, diabetes, cancer, sickle cell (very a real possibility with me because of my dual ethnicity) and so on.

I was stumped for answers as I simply did not know.

I have found out now on my fathers side there are immediatefamily members who suffer from the same delibattating illness, genetic of course.

This is another risk you're taking.

RaRaZ Mon 15-Jul-13 10:01:44

I was wondering if he'd had the snip too.... I've no idea how common it is, but that's one possible reason why he wouldn't care about not using contraception. Or perhaps he already knows he's infertile.

OhBuggerMe Mon 15-Jul-13 10:50:06

Or cares about her as much as she cares about him (not a right lot).

I wonder how many other fuck buddies he's got. He probably doesn't wash his cock inbetween them.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 18:21:19

OhBuggerMe : that just made me laugh out loud!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't believe what I'm reading.
It's because of people like you that my partner has left me as a single parent.
Because he read stories about women like you and can't see how I could have been 23 weeks pregnant without knowing or being deceitful.


Know I know the stories he read actually do hold some truth.

internationallove985 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:00:23

People like me, Makeitupasyougoalong. Where did you pluck that one from. I am a single mum and I know how challenging/rewarding it is it is and I am sorry for your experience but it most certainly is not down to me personally how things have worked out for you. x

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 19:02:47

Make it up, your post makes no sense at allconfused

You should know what your doing Is wrong then.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:17:39

She is saying that she didn't find out she was pregnant until she was 23 weeks along but her partner didn't believe that she hadn't known about it and so left her.

I think she then implies that her partner had read/heard of women who deceive men in order to conceive and that is why he didn't believe her when she said she genuinely hadn't known she was pregnant.

That was my understanding of it anyway. Sorry MakeItUp if I misread smile

I'm sorry your partner has left, is it a recent thing? x

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 19:20:57

I think you are an intelligent woman.
I think that you know deep down that your behaviour is wrong.
But, as you say, you walk over people to get what you want.

Did your parents teach you to do that?

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 19:23:48

fwiw, Makeit, I know a youngish woman who went to full term, and only knew on the day that she gave birth, that she had been pregnant. It is hard to believe, until you personally know someone yourself.
Not that that helps you at all. Sorry for your predicament.

internationallove985 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:26:29

I've never came on here and said what I am doing is ideal but sadly we don't live in ideal world...If we did I'd be winning the euro illions every week!!!
I am trying to create a new life... The way certain people have gone on you'd be forgiven for thinking I was committing the crime of century.

Oh buggar me... I have to say this or I'll bite my tongue off or would that me fingers... I am far from stupid yes he could have other "Fuck buddies" other than me. My personal circumstances only allow me to see twice a week so how the hell do I what he's doing when he's not with me, I'm going to be brave enough and say this to you and I await a flaming.... Well here goes..... How do you do your D.P/D.H is not sleeping with other women behind your back. The honest truth is you don't!
Please try not to be smug... The fates don't like it....xx

Writer- you got it. Sorry it's very very emotive subject for me.
It's not recent no, dd is 10 months now and I'm okay. It's currently a bit raw as the scenario about being deceitful has just been slung into court about me.
Bit raw you see.

Just makes me really angry and sad because cases of deceitful women like this make men think twice about their partners.
My case is more involved, but, the short bit is: he left me as he thought I'd tricked him into having a child.
The man I loved, my best friend.

So you know it's wrong, don't do it, wait for the right man to have a family with. I look at tiny babies and feel broody, doesn't mean I'm going to go to such lengths.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 19:32:08

That's a horrible situation but shows what an arse your partner is if he thought you'd trick him.

ZolaBuddleia Mon 15-Jul-13 19:36:23

international, I'm confused now. Are you saying that he does have a partner, or that you do, hence only being available for dates 2 afternoons a week?

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:36:38

MakeItUp : what an awful situation to be in and I can see why it must be so hard for you to read this thread - and see somebody flaunting the same thing that you are being accused of but would never do. If I could give you a hug I would smile I won't probe into your situation but we are all here when you need to rant or need a shoulder to cry on x x x

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:38:51

Zola : "available for dates 2 afternoons a week" - I don't know why, but that made me laugh out loud!!! grin

Maybe it is the image of casual sex being referred to as an afternoon date similar to when children have Play Dates grin

I'm okay, I have my own thread that's hidden now. I'm just seeing this thread as a huge red flag to a bull.

I honestly thought these stories he had heard and read didn't exist. Now I've read this thread.
No wonder some men are so u trusting.
I'm aware I got a bad one, and he can't have loved me that much to not believe me but still I can't believe anyone would do this.
It's not just that its deliberately sabotaging a unborn child's possible relationship with its father. Every child has the right to a relationship with the father, sadly in this case the child may not even get that chance.
Why you would do that and find that acceptable is beyond me?
I'm fighting for my dd to see her father. I'm trying to get set times and days (he just wants whenever) so that my daughter can never turn around and tell me I didn't do all I could.
In this case what are you going to say to this child, if the father walks away, are you going to tell them why? Or are you going to do the whole daddy is a wanker routine?

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:58:45

I'm guessing she will go for the latter as opposed to telling the truth....

I also worry about what example is being set to her daughter? That it is okay for a woman to have unsafe sex with a man she doesn't know just so she can have a baby for her own selfish reasons....

Great lesson to teach your daughter...

If I ever learnt that I had been conceived in such a vulgar manner I don't know who I would cope with it.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 19:59:27

* how I would cope with it.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 20:03:49

Very few babies are conceived within marriage and moonlight and roses!

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 20:05:56

I can't help but feel you are supportive of what International is doing? smile

That doesn't mean a baby should be conceived in this manner.

I'm not all in favour of the rose tinted dating, marriage, house then baby but this? Really?

Writer agree whole heartedly with you

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 20:13:46

Actually I'm not at all as I said in an earlier post. What I can't stand is all this 'poor unsuspecting man' and blaming her for everyone's misery. In an ideal world babies are conceived within marriage but it's rare that everything is ideal. I had ds when I was married with a long term partner but tbh my biological clock was ticking louder than big Ben and I wouldn't like to assume that I wouldn't do what international is doing. I would not entertain the idea of a sperm bank.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 20:14:42

If I hadn't have been in a relationship

FourLittleDudes Mon 15-Jul-13 20:20:20

I think a man who chooses to have sex with a casual partner without a condom without even asking if their partner is on the pill etc can't be to concerned about a pregnancy, everyone knows that unprotected sex sometimes leads to conception its not like anyone is pretending that they are taking precautions. He's made his choice to take a risk.

Good luck to you International. Plenty of babies are born to parents that don't want them, don't look after them, don't j is what they are letting themselves in for. At least this baby is wanted and loved.

internationallove985 Mon 15-Jul-13 20:20:36

It is due to commitments (working) that we only see each other twice a week.... Erm not that it is your business Winterwannabe.
Shock horror I am having U.P.S!!!! XX

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 20:23:19

If I'm honest, and I wont speak for everyone, but what shocks me about the whole deception isn't the fact that she is doing it, but more because she seems to be so proud of herself for doing it.

Almost like she thinks she is some Independent Woman type figure, if that makes sense?? Some kind of Martyr.....

In my opinion, it is her blasé, 'I don't care about lying to people to get what I want' attitude offends me more than the actual deed.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 20:31:26

And genuine question:

If you do conceive, do you intend on telling him and hoping he will stick by you and maybe turn your FWB into a relationship?

Or are you going to break it off with him and raise the baby alone?

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 20:43:06

Writer-I don't get that at all from international's posts. I see a woman desperate for a baby that's all. Who on earth are we to judge?

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 20:46:04

I'm not judging what she is doing, like I said, it is her attitude I find difficult to understand. She has said herself that she feels no guilt about what is doing and that is quite happy to lie and deceive people in order to get whatever she wants.

They just aren't personality traits that I can take to, that's all.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 20:48:11

Why is it better if she feels guilty? Guilt is a useless waste of time.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 20:54:10

I don't want her to feel anything.

She feels what she naturally feels and such is the nature of her personality.

I just know it is something I could never do. That is probably why a lot of us are reacting the way we are, we can't understand it because it isn't something we would consider.

But, everyone has different morals and different reasons for living their lives the way they do and that is just life I guess.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 20:57:20

It issmile

OhBuggerMe Mon 15-Jul-13 21:14:23

I've said it once and I'll say it again....biscuit biscuit biscuit biscuit biscuit biscuit

For the record I know ky husband isn't sleeping with anyone else because, wait for it.... I trust him!! Trust......a beautiful thing to have. You'll learn that one day OP.....but you'll need to grow uo first.

Writer- I completely get that too, that's what's made me angry

FourLittleDudes Mon 15-Jul-13 21:23:37

I don't think and sounds proud of herself, she sounds sure of her decision and confident in her abilities to raise a child.

Its almost like some posters want her to be beating herself up over it, crying with guilt and feeling awful.

She is doing nothing different to what he is doing - having unprotected sex knowing it could lead to a pregnancy.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 21:25:31

I agree four.

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 21:36:15

But Four, she is doing the added thing of ttc. He isnt. He may be being naive, or casual about unprotected sex, but he is not actively ttc - as far as we all know, international included.

international. Is there anything on this thread, anything at all, that has made you think twice about what you are doing?

You havent answered one or two of my questions. Obviously you dont have to, and perhaps they are too near the bone.

But generally, when people go through life, and keep burying their feelings about all sorts of things, it leads to problems, both practical and emotional ones, later on.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 21:37:46

If he isn't wearing a condom he is ttcgrin

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 21:39:18

But has she told him it is unprotected and that she isn't using contraception? No she hasn't - because she knows that if she does tell him the sex will stop.

Yes he shouldn't just presume International is on the Pill or that she has a Coil or whatever, but I think he deserves to know that she isn't and so make a run for it or wear condom. He should have that choice.

No man should ever have fatherhood forced upon them - it is just wrong. This is a life that is being created and I don't think any woman has the right to make the decision to bring a baby into the world without the consent of the father.

And as to her doing nothing different than what he is...

He thinks they are just having casual sex, a bit of fun.
She is using him in order to get pregnant deceitfully.

They aren't the same things at all.....

I think she does need to have to the Contraception talk though because there is a chance he may have had a Vasectomy and so she could basically be wasting her time. At least if she knows he has had one, she can break it off and go back down the pub and try and locate another stranger to have a baby with...

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 21:43:27

Not sure if you are joking valium. I presume you are.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 21:46:25

I am half joking. If he isn't wearing a condom then why would a baby be a surprise?

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 21:48:51

She is PURPOSEFULLY not having the contraception talk because she knows there is no way the guy would knowingly have unprotected sex with her.

He may be stupid enough to not wear a condom but I'm pretty sure he is clever enough to realise how ludicrous the idea of conceiving a child together would be.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 21:53:39

Not clever enough to west a condom though eh?hmm

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 21:53:47


yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 21:54:16

Maybe he thought he had had the conversation.
Maybe he misheard.
Maybe, if he is doing the same thing with others, he has got confused.
Maybe he is reckless.
Maybe he isnt bothered one way or the other. Either because he may want one at the back of his mind. Or maybe because he would have no hesitation in scarpering.
Could be other reasons I havent thought of now it is nearly nighttime.

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 21:55:47

He maybe has had the snip maybe the most obvious one.

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 21:56:26

Maybe he knows for medical reasons that he cant have one.

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 21:57:39

But it doesn't actually matter a hoot-no condom =a baby more often than not. He has to take 50% of the responsibility.

OhBuggerMe Mon 15-Jul-13 21:58:44

Maybe he just doesn't care and sees op as nothing more than an easy lay and hasn't bothered to stop and consider the consequences.

They're both responsible and the whole arrangement needs to end.

FourLittleDudes Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:14

Maybe he hasn't had the talk with her as he wants to conceive. Who knows. His contraception is his responsibility, a pregnancy can't be a surprise when you are having unprotected sex, no one is poking holes in condoms, or lying about taking the pill, no one is being tricked or cheated into anything.

RaRaZ Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:33

I also think that international (and, if you ask me, 'international love' seems an odd name for someone who says she can't find someone to be in love with) sounds proud of what she is doing. Is that true, International? I also suspect you're quite young. I could perhaps understand what you're doing better if you were 40+ and thinking your time was running out, but something in the way you write makes you sounds far younger. I'd guess you're in your 20s. Is that right? I'd also guess that you had your DD pretty young - late teens? Am I anywhere near the mark here? I've noticed that you've mentioned your situation, often somewhat cryptically, on several threads. It almost seems like you're inviting people to ask questions and that you enjoy the attention. I could well be wrong, but it comes across llike that to be and I find that odd.

Can someone tell me what is wrong with the idea of a sperm bank? Surely that, or adoption, is the ideal solution if you don't have a partner and are desperate for a baby... You also have the peace of mind in knowing the background and genetics of the person whose sperm you are using - more than International seems to know of the man she is sleeping with.

International Two specific evenings a week, every week? Is that when his wife is out/at work or when he's supposedly at the gym or out with the lads? hmm Plenty of people cheat, as you said, but that doesn't make it right. Do you even know if he has kids? Sounds like an all-round messy, nasty situation to me.

Re the issue of marriage supposedly being the 'ideal', who said that? I don't think anyone is championing marriage and Christian ideals. There's a huge spectrum here. I'm not married and nor do I feel any need to be, but there's a huge difference between having a baby with my DP and tricking some random bloke I barely know into fathering my child.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 22:02:59

And maybe that is how OP wants him to see her anyway. I get the impression this man is nothing but sperm to her and she wouldn't give a hoot if he ran for the hills.

Who cares what a child needs in its life eh?!
Who cares that every child deserves to have a daddy.

I just don't understand how she can that desperate for a baby that she is happy to sleep with someone she doesn't know and seems not to even like??

Why not just do the normal thing of waiting until you meet someone you actually want a baby with??

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 22:04:03

I cannot begin to tell you how offensive (not the right word but it's late!)I find you telling international that the situation needs to end. It's entirely up to them what they do, them being adults and all!

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 22:04:44

internationallove985. Do you think you may have narcissism? I dont know much about it, but it is discussed on here quite a lot.
fwiw, from what I have read on here about it, no one ever says they do! It is one of the things about narcissism.

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 22:05:32

And RaRaz - I absolutely completely agree with you when you say,

"I also suspect you're quite young. I could perhaps understand what you're doing better if you were 40+ and thinking your time was running out, but something in the way you write makes you sounds far younger. I'd guess you're in your 20s. Is that right?"

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 22:07:38

Heck, just realised that may be a bit rude of me.
I think it was partly because you said something about" being made differently to other people, that is for sure."

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 22:09:34

Narcissism?confused she wants a baby that's all.

Look up narcissism, what on earth makes you think that?confused

valiumredhead Mon 15-Jul-13 22:10:30

I need my bed ladies, nightsmile

Writerwannabe83 Mon 15-Jul-13 22:14:21

I would be interested as to why she wants a baby because I wonder if it is to fill a hole within herself.

It is like when you hear a 15 year old girl saying she wants a baby because she wants something to love - when what she really means is that she wants a baby because she wants to feel needed and loved by someone.

yamsareyammy Mon 15-Jul-13 22:16:23

Looked it up. Some seems to fit, some maybe not.

You could be right Writer.

Off to bed too.

International, ignore the pearl clutchers. There are very few of us on here who have conceived in the most perfect way imaginable. If your fuck buddy is not protecting himself he is fair game for becoming an accidental dad. Believe me, go on any conception thread and you will find women struggling to get pregnant in their thirties and forties who probably wish they'd got knocked up somehow, anyhow years earlier. It's a serious business this looking for Mr Right (he doesn't exist) whilst trying to smash through that glass ceiling (I found it and ended up cleaning it).

I hope you get the baby you so desire.

Nice to see people condoning this eh.

Wonder what this child will be told when its older.

Writer, unclutch your twin set edge-to-edge cardigan for a moment and consider this: I had a termination after a one-night stand when I was 31. I am now almost 42 and pregnant from IVF using a donor's eggs. Do you suppose I didn't 'deserve' this baby and that is why I struggled to conceive? How dare you judge a person's fitness to be a mother based on their ttc behaviour? Not everyone lives like you. Not everyone has your values. Sme people use short cuts in life. Doesn't make them sneer-worthy. Get a grip (but not of your pearls, please).

Completely different scenario!!!

Makeitup, please will you list some suggestions of things I can say to my donor egg conceived child about how he/she was made? You sound like you'd have some amazing insight hmm

Maybe we should all go round to Katie Price's gaff and throw insults at her for marrying someone new every year just so she can have more babies. She's a great mum, by all accounts. What's the big deal? Or is it only the rich who are allowed to manipulate their men and get away with it?

*Who cares what a child needs in its life eh?!
Who cares that every child deserves to have a daddy.*

Writer, the lesbians around here must really love you hmm

Juicy- it is a completely different situation? You've not been deceitful, you've been thoughtful for a start.
Why would you not be completely honest with your child.
It's quite alot different to saying 'oh yes because I lied, and TTC in such a deceitful way you haven't got a father because he's married or been tricked or ran for the hills

I'm not even doubting or criticising the fact a baby is wanted. Nor do I think that op will be a bad parent, I think she will be a fantastic parent with so much love to give actually.

This is the situations sperm banks should be used for, any woman to do that and explain to a child they had so much love to give and are wanted so much is Incredible. Something to be so proud of.

What I object to is the fact this is a situation where someone, maybe more than one is likely to get hurt. It may end up well and as a family but sadly I think the odds are against it.

Juicy, it sounds to me like you've a huge chip on your shoulder tbh

No. I do not. I object to narrow-minded arseholes who refuse to believe that not all babies are conceived through pure lurve, listening to Barry White whist spooning with your 'perfect' husband. Babies are conceived through deception all the time including within stable relationships/marriages. If a man is stupid enough to be fucking around without a condom he has no right to be outraged when a woman rocks up with his baby in her arms.

There are women deceiving their men specifically to get pregnant all over the world and it has been like that forever.

valiumredhead Tue 16-Jul-13 14:25:57

<applauds juicy>

OhBuggerMe Tue 16-Jul-13 14:33:07

Juicy you make a good point actually. My concern is that the op is putting her health at risk with this.man. If she was my friend i'd plead with her to have a sti & hiv test.

KeepTheFaithBaby Tue 16-Jul-13 14:40:15

My biggest concern for you international is about STIs - what if instead of getting pregnant you get chlamydia and end up infertile?

(bugs its not the OP that's got the FWB but another poster)

Yes, 'tis true that these types of men (and women) are susceptible to STDs. It's a difficult one because insisting on condoms isn't going to get you a baby. Sperm banks are a great option.

I don't disagree with you when you say it's happening all over but I just do not see what is wrong with a sperm bank.

valiumredhead Tue 16-Jul-13 15:29:06

Money? It's not a cheap option by any means.

No Valium it's not your right, I'm just thinking morally that's all

Makeitup, so you advocate this woman buying sperm and rearing a fatherless child but not via casual sex? Can you explain this nonsense?

valiumredhead Tue 16-Jul-13 15:45:48

It's the deception I think...

Cupcake11 Tue 16-Jul-13 15:46:23

As a purely academic point (no judgement), do the people who say half the blame lays with the man because he hasn't mentioned contraception think it was the same for a man who has sex with women knowing he has a serious STD or is even HIV positive? That they are equally to blame because they didn't make him wear a condom. After all, we all know the risks from unprotected sex are pregnancy and infection.
I just wondered if to some people it's easier to excuse because to us having a baby is a positive thing. I don't know, it just made me think maybe it's not as black and white as it first looks.
By the way, I'm in no way saying what International is doing is the same as that. I was just curious as to where people draw the line with their morals. Absolutely no offence to anyone meant! x

That man has chosen to deposit his sperm knowingly and wllingly to make a child is the difference.
This man, I know he hasn't chosen to discuss the use of contraception but he hasn't actually said he wishes to TTC that's the difference.

The problem here is morals. I do truely hope the man in question does have a relationship with any possible child in this instance but only knowing what cards have been laid on the table.
I suspect if this man did know what was going on he could be quite angry, yes he has played his part I do accept that but I cannot believe that people are condoning this situation.

There are right ways to do this.

Makeitup ( a very apt name, by-the-way), can't you see that a man who is happily fucking on a regular basis without using a condom is donating his sperm? What this lady chooses to do with that sperm is her business.

Writerwannabe83 Tue 16-Jul-13 17:31:17

Lol - that made me laugh out loud a little - but in a "no beating around the bush, you make a valid point" kind of way. grin

We're not talking about sperm.
We are talking about a life. I do agree with you that the man shouldn't do it no, but is the op going to do the whole 'I'm pregnant, sniff sniff by accident' because that's bollocks. That's the worst bit, if she says I'm pregnant you never asked me about contraception and I assumed: that's fair enough and I think that's fine

Cupcake, I would say a disease is very different to a baby. The law sees it as assault if a man willingly has sex with a woman knowing he has HIV/HepC and she becomes infected.

Makeitup, I don't think international intends to do any sniffing...unless she's a cokehead, too grin

Juicy- I think you get what I mean and where I'm coming from now smile.
Your name is making me really hungry!!! I'm the middle of moving and no food shop done. Steak would do nicely right now!

Makeitup, sorry I've been snappy, can I blame the hormones? hmm

I'm a complete meat freak smile

Ill let you smile

fifi669 Tue 16-Jul-13 19:31:16

This is just mental. Talking about having children as some god given right. I assume the FWB thinks International is on the pill and it probably doesn't occur to him otherwise. Men are quite stupid sometimes.

My DP has a DS with his ex, she was a complete psycho ' on the pill''. He believed her. Despite an unhappy relationship he stuck around til DS was 8 months old. When he finally left, he paid maintenance, saw her regularly until the ex stopped contact as he made it clear their relationship was over. 2 years on he's still fighting to get proper contact. My point being, it absolutely breaks his heart that he's missed her first steps etc. However, I asked him if he'd got with someone new and not me (we'd been friends for 5 years so would assume trustworthy), would he use a condom? He said not if she was on the pill..... No learning. I promise you this is an intelligent guy I'm talking about!

OhBuggerMe Tue 16-Jul-13 20:09:28

Whoops, OP I wasnt referring to you. I was referring to International who I still think is a bit of a troll

<awaits post deletion>

valiumredhead Tue 16-Jul-13 20:12:57

It's really unfair to call someone a troll just because you don't agree with what they are doing.

OhBuggerMe Tue 16-Jul-13 20:37:51

I don't disagree with what she says.... I've just seen her on other threads and a bun fight often breaks out after she very boldly drops in her situation without the cause do so and then vanishes and lets mners fight amoungst themselves.

valiumredhead Tue 16-Jul-13 20:58:47

She hadn't vanished, she's come back and explained her situation. Don't think she needs to defend herself at all.

I really like posters who say exactly what they think and are happy to fight it out when pearl-clutchers practice being outraged. Trolls are a different matter: they should be stabbed in the tits smile

valiumredhead Tue 16-Jul-13 22:09:49


Juicy- we are so on the same line now!!!

OhBuggerMe Tue 16-Jul-13 22:53:22

Juicy you clearly like pearls......as do I..... but for the record I'm not a pearl clutcher. I like most feel uneasy with the situation. The risks been taken are high. I caught clamydia (sp) from a fwb and have recently suffered a 3rd mc. The two may be linked, they may not. I'll never know.

OhBuggerMe Tue 16-Jul-13 22:54:04

been!??? Being!! <bangs head> grin

Writerwannabe83 Wed 17-Jul-13 09:53:55

What is the definition of a Pearl Clutcher grin
What makes us one???

ZingWidge Wed 17-Jul-13 09:58:03

Not read thread

To answer your question OP gravity works against sperm, but you can help them along by tiling your pelvis - put a pillow under your bottom.

So instead of the sperm having to go upstream like salmon they can happily trickle down towards your cervix.

ZingWidge Wed 17-Jul-13 09:59:43

oh ffs!

not tiling, TILTING!!!

OP whatever you do, do not do any tiling inside your "love cave"!grin

EssieSaysRelax Wed 17-Jul-13 10:06:12

haha! Deffo no to tiling in there!

I read somewhere some women have more tilted cervixes than others which means the legs in the air is actually helpful for some, depending on what 'shape' you are?! I frankly can't be arsed.

I think a pearl clutcher is someone who is uptight and conservative, but I may be wrong!

Writerwannabe83 Wed 17-Jul-13 10:17:01

And not agreeing with International means we are uptight??
Interesting.... grin

And Zing : I promise not to start decorating my love cave like a bathroom wall smile

ZingWidge Wed 17-Jul-13 10:17:59

writer imagine someone wearing a few rows of pearls and lovely clothes.
now show this person a child with a muddy hand.
encourage said child to wipe muddy hand in pearly lady's clothes.

watch the reaction of shock shock shock shock at the thought of something so "terrible" happening.
it will involve recoiling, clutching of pearls, sharp intake of breath, loud gasp or cat bum face and hopefully some eye rolling.
if you like you'll hear the phrase "well I never!"grin grin grin grin

ZingWidge Wed 17-Jul-13 10:21:46


if you are not agreeing to various things on MN you may be accused of "clutching your pearls" ( being too precious about stuff)

here is a secret - it doesn't matterwink

Writerwannabe83 Wed 17-Jul-13 10:22:22

Oh no - that sounds like something I would actually do, hahaha grin

Writerwannabe83 Wed 17-Jul-13 10:23:34

My sister's children always have dirty faces and hands and I'm there, desperately rummaging in my handbag to find wipes to clean them up with, haha grin


BuggerMe, with a username that clearly invites bum-fun I would never have had you down as a pearl-clutcher. You can relax.

...and unclench your buttocks grin

OhBuggerMe Wed 17-Jul-13 13:43:06

Arf. at 'Love cave'

Arf at 'Bum-fun'

ZingWidge Wed 17-Jul-13 13:51:03


here's another one - Baby Gravy

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 18:39:46

This is going to be one hell of a long post. I'm back with a vengence. where I start first I don't know...... Erm think I'll start on the positive....
Thank you to all the posters who have not past judgement on my situation .It means a lot. xxxxx

RaRaz My user name is after the song international love (Pitbull and Chris Brown) x
Oh Buggar me... Why am I troll because I don't live a perfect life (yeah keep telling yourself that) like someone I might mention,or is because I can hold my own and be assertive! and no I am not going to get your post deleted. I am pretty sure I can handle a flaming from you without mums net to hold my hand!x
Winterwannabe83. How dare you mock my reasons for ttc. Don't we all want a baby so we have someone to love and be loved back!
Yes I do have a hole in my life that can never be filled losing my beautiful baby! I can't believe someone can be so insensitive
Like another poster said very correctly we don't all live like you. x

God I feel better for that rant!!!
Reading through some of these very very judgemental posts I don't think I am the troll. x

B.T.W who ever asked I was not a teen mum and even if I was where is the crime. My angel was planned as was D.D. I am 30+ x

Writerwannabe83 Wed 17-Jul-13 18:44:33

I never accused you of trying to replace the baby you lost, I would never say anything like that to a woman who miscarried. If in any way my post came across as such, then I apologise.

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 18:46:36

Apology accepted. I'd also like to say well done it takes guts to say sorry.xx

Writerwannabe83 Wed 17-Jul-13 18:50:11

That's ok, we may have different views on your TTC method but I would never want to cause any real upset to you, especially concerning something so emotive as a miscarriage x

OhBuggerMe Wed 17-Jul-13 18:54:25

International you posted about your situation knowing full well that not all would agree and you have continued to drop it into other posts despite it not being relevant to the topic. That's why I called you troll and the twee kisses after every post make me want to throw up. We're grown up mature women, this isn't pony club....the kisses are far too netmums for my liking. (You may not realise the relationship between this forum and that one)
If you want a baby that's up to you but you Will find little sympathy here if you're back in 12 months with an AIBU thread about how the babies father doesn't want to know.

I wish you luck in your journey.

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 18:59:17

You may not agree with what I do and nor do I seek or ask your permission! but my life is not for you to pass judgement. I've never heard of it being stupid to put kisses. I always do after everything. It's just my way.
Thank you for you good luck wishes. Same to you x

ZingWidge Wed 17-Jul-13 19:00:03

some kisses are ok

xxx I luff ya xxgrin

OhBuggerMe Wed 17-Jul-13 19:00:21

If you don't want judgement don't post about it on an open internet forum like this one grin

fifi669 Wed 17-Jul-13 19:04:23

I'm going to put it out there international, I am judging you. To be so blasé with your FWB's life and your possible unborn child's is shocking. You are morally bankrupt.

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 19:04:36

Ohbuggarme. I can't argue with that, hey if I'm wrong I'll be women enough to admit it! I know know why I am bothered about being judged I love a good flame. The world would be a lovely place but also a verym boring place if we all agreed with each other.
However all that said I still feel assertive and confident about my choices.x

OhBuggerMe Wed 17-Jul-13 19:09:22

Good for you....because its you that Will have to deal with the consequences good or bad. If you're fully prepared to be a single parent with no involvement from the father and little financial support then good luck to you. I genuinely mean that. As a child of a single parent I can't express enough how fucked up I was not having a father around. This caused my.mother endless worry & heartache. If you're confident that you can deal with that then so be it.

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 19:11:17

I am already a lone parent and if you will allow me to say it I don't think I've done a bad job. I'm not a perfect parent but who is!. x

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 19:14:49

That is your opinion or belief and I have no control over that whatsoever and yes you're fully entitled to your opinions and beliefs, but people (namely me) do what they do because they have to. x

fifi669 Wed 17-Jul-13 19:35:54

You 100% don't have to. You're making a choice and with that taking the choice away from your FWB and unborn child. You've admitted you've already done the same with your current child. I don't care if you think you're a good mum to the one you have. Good mums think about their children first and themselves second. You certainly are not.

Before all the don't judge a person, you don't know what they've been through rubbish, I don't care if your dog died or you didn't get a pony for Christmas, there's no excuse.

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 19:42:42

My daughter doesn't go without she is loved beyond imagination. How dare you slate me for being a single mum!

fifi669 Wed 17-Jul-13 20:16:15

I'm not slating you for being a single mum. I'm slating you for choosing to be with no thought for the effect on your children. Has it even crossed your mind they might want a dad?

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 20:19:24

Like I have said previously if he wants to be involved he can be if not then it's his loss. x

fifi669 Wed 17-Jul-13 20:19:54

I was a single mum myself, I don't know why you assumed it was to do with that. It's the fact you are purposefully depriving your children of something. There are many excellent single parents out there, they do the job because they have to, not because they selfishly want a baby like some stroppy teenager.

fifi669 Wed 17-Jul-13 20:20:24

You've already said you didn't tell your ex about your current child

internationallove985 Wed 17-Jul-13 20:22:43

Oh no I mean the would be father of the baby I am trying for now.
In regards to my D.D it's always just been me and her. x

fifi669 Wed 17-Jul-13 20:48:32

Because as you said, you never told your ex you were even pregnant. You've denied your DD the chance to know her dad. I sincerely doubt you have any intention on working for a relationship between future offspring and FWB unless he does exactly what you want. If he wanted to take offspring out with his partner would you object?

valiumredhead Wed 17-Jul-13 20:54:09

Slating someone for their posting style is such a low blow imo. I always think it's like someone thinks 'I've had my say, I'm pissed off and now I'll pick on the most ridiculous thing I can think of'hmm


yamsareyammy Wed 17-Jul-13 21:34:35

You feel confident about your choices, but you dont feel comfortable with them.
They make you feel somewhat uncomfortable.

Obviously they are your choices. Well , that is what I started posting, but actually they may well be your presumably ex and your DD's choices/ lifetime result.

I think I get the impression that you are not going to change your mind. But all this will play on your mind. And that may just be enough to make you at least think again.

Can I ask, have you thought anything at all, about what has been said on here about what you are doing?

Can I ask international my last question because I can see nothing will change:

Does anyone in real life know what your trying to do?

newforest Wed 17-Jul-13 22:19:47

I know of two people whose mothers denied them the details of their fathers. One was a boy, who when he hit his teenage years decided to physically assault his mother in frustration.

The second is a woman I work with. Her mother refuses to give her her father's name, and won't even tell her the reason why. This woman is very bitter and twisted; she doesn't get on well at all with other women and is very hard to work alongside day after day. She resents her mother and is very snappy and terse with her. She is also overwhelmingly jealous of her brother, who incidentally happens to have a relationship with his father.

So you can see the problems that may arise in the future. It may be ok now, but these kids will become adults one day and they will want answers.

fifi, I would love to know what is underpinning your ire, but I'm going to ask you something and I want an honest answer, pliz: what do you think of women who use a sperm bank to fulfil their longing for a baby? Please bear in mind that any resulting child will be fatherless.

What do you think of lesbians who choose to have babies without a father?

What do you think of Katie Price and her marry-'em-quick-to-get-me-another-baby strategy?

What do think about the fact that, over on the TTC Over 40 thread there are women of 45 and 46 who are trying their hardest to have their third, fourth, even sixth baby without their husband's knowledge (and by that I mean their husbands are having sex with them regularly without condoms because they do not believe their wives will fall pregnant at that age but are still adamant that a baby would be 'a curse' in their lives). These men would be literally heartbroken if their wives fell pregnant yet the women continue with their feverish quest to silence their longing.

There are women up and down the land, fifi, who are carving out lives for themselves and their children with the very best of intentions. Some of those choices seem astonishingly selfish and 'immoral' to us but if you look beneath the surface of most people's lives you will see some really selfish shit going on.

International, I don't applaud you for what you're doing, but as a barren of nearly 42 who has had to buy her baby from a Czech clinic using donor eggs I would say fuck everyone else - just make sure you are the very best mum you can be. Maybe your FWB will learn to 'put something on the end of it' as my dear friend Jeremy Kyle would say.

Newforest, I can give you a plethora of examples of children who never knew one of their parents and they didn't turn into steaming psychopathic fuckwits.

RaRaZ Thu 18-Jul-13 00:49:04

International, it was me who asked if you had your first child young. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it (indeed, one of the best mothers I know had her child at only 17) - I just asked because you come across as very young on here and I was curious about your situation. I don't particularly care whether you had your daughter at 15 or 50 - it's what you're doing now that I find morally questionable. I was just asking about your situation so I can try and understand where you're coming from - I might not agree, but it is interesting. No offence was intended by asking about your age.

Why does International come across as 'young', exactly? Because she speaks her mind, is honest and feisty? Or is it that only the young have 'reprehensible morals'? RaRaz, what's your opinion of Ulrika Jonsson? Four kids by four different dads - doesn't live with any of 'em. Fifi, still waiting for your answers, too.

Buggerme, I think your criticism of International's use of kisses was sneery and unneccessary. I'll bet half your mates on facebook do exactly the same and you wouldn't dare be so caustic with them.

OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 11:15:03

That's the thing about opinions juicy they're just like areseholes....everyone has one and most stink!



WannaBeAMommy Thu 18-Jul-13 11:53:22

Whats any of this got to do with the writers tgreqd about legs up after sex. This is a forum for people trying to concieve and there questions... Not to pick on someone. Its hard enough doing tests and getting negatives. Wanting a baby so bad. This is suppose to be a place to comfort and answer peoples queries...

Im not quite about legs in the air. Ive been told to do it but I find it doesnt do anything the stuff still falls out when leaving the bed anyway x x x

OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 11:55:17

<snorts babydust>
<changes name towannabeyummymummyandhaveaperfecticklepfb>
<applies ticker and philosophical quote>

Happy? smile

OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 11:57:26

wanna that was not aimed at you.....I was attempting to have a tongue in cheek dig at Nethuns in response to the.kisses sent by juicy. sad

<Fails miserably to be funny>

WannaBeAMommy Thu 18-Jul-13 12:05:21

Ah your grand:-)

Fucking brilliant, Bugger! It's usually me who does shit like that. Do you mind if I roll around in Schadenfreude?

OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 12:17:07

Not at all grin

Honestly, that were ruddy genius. Can't stop snorting grin

OhBuggerMe Thu 18-Jul-13 12:22:08

I had total face palm moment. At all the times ti have a x-post!!!!!!

I'm sure mommylovessquidgybabymoonbeams understands grin

KeepTheFaithBaby Thu 18-Jul-13 12:49:12

Oh bugs grin 😂

fifi669 Thu 18-Jul-13 14:07:35

Sorry for the delay in replying juicy,I'm at work. If gay couples want to have children that's fine, for starters both parents will know they're going to be parents and the missing component has been donated willingly.

Katie Price hasn't tricked anyone into becoming a parent, neither has Ukrika, the children still have their fathers involved in their life.

Women tricking their husbands into having another child when they've expressly said they don't want anymore and wrong too! What a betrayal of trust!

I'm not even against sperm banks, though I think they should be used as part of a living couple and not necessarily a single person.

You said it yourself, women are doing it to fulfil THEIR longing. They are doing it for themselves and not thinking of the effect on others.

You have no idea whatsoever about Ulrika et al, do you? (She has no contact with the father of her second-born). Or Liz Hurley or the myriad women who pop babies out when all previous partners have bitten the dust long ago.

You keep talking about sperm being 'donated willingly'. What do you call the stuff being chucked about liberally by blokes who refuse to wear condoms? To say they are being deceived is about as disingenous as you could possibly get.

If you want the Utopian paradigm of family life I suggest you get off mumsnet and start campaigning for the Church to be restored in this God-forsaken shit-hole called Britain.


fifi669 Thu 18-Jul-13 15:23:47

If he's not being deceived, then it's simple, make it clear no contraception is being taken. Leave it at that. If he continues then he does only have himself to blame. Men assume women are on the pill.

Men assume women are on the Pill


S'funny that, 'cos women assume men who don't wear condoms aren't really bothered if a baby rocks up.

valiumredhead Thu 18-Jul-13 15:43:47

Do men assume women are on the pill? Well you know what assume does --makes an ass out of you and me--hmm

valiumredhead Thu 18-Jul-13 15:44:08

Bloody italics fail,I hate this phone!

fifi669 Thu 18-Jul-13 16:16:05

Men don't want a kid with a stranger, they assume women wouldn't want to either. So if she's letting him ride bareback so to speak 50% won't think of STDs and jump aboard without too much concern.

Yes they are stupid to assume. They are stupid to assume that women aren't trying to trick them into becoming parents as is the case here. Being naive doesn't mean they deserve it.

valiumredhead Thu 18-Jul-13 17:05:11

I seriously don't get the 'poor, naive bloke' attitude on this thread, it's dreadful.confused

RaRaZ Thu 18-Jul-13 20:33:03

Juicy: Hard to say. I'd have to write you an essay on it, probably as there's no short answer. But I study linguistics and I'm used to reading between the lines and analysing what people say. To me, International sounds very young and, in my view, immature - but that of course is a personal opinion, and obviously I'm wrong on the young front. With regard to Ulrika Johnson, I don't know much about her, but based on what you've said about four children with four different fathers, I don't really agree with/approve of that.

I appreciate the church comment wasn't directed at me, but just in case I also come across that way to you: I'm not remotely religious and never have been. I also don't believe in marriage (though I'm happy for others when they get married), and I'm ttc with a partner I've been with a year and am not married to. So, for me, it's definitely not middle-class ideals.

Fifi, I can only assume your defence of cavalier dick-heads is because you have a son. Am I right?

RaRaz, I have nothing to say about your study of linguistics except: hmm If you're not religious and you don't espouse middle-class ideals what, exactly, irks you about International's efforts to conceive a baby with her regular doesn't-give-a-shit-about-condoms fuck buddy.

You see, I am religious (although trying to give up swearing) yet cannot bring myself to judge International simply because I know the pathological yearning for a baby is irrational, selfish and all-consuming. I've also slept with zillions of men who didn't give a fuck about mine or their sexual health and who also refused to use condoms. I honestly wish I had had babies by a few of them in my twenties. Maybe even four. Much more preferable to being a twisted and bitter barren in your forties.

I'm seven weeks pregnant from donor egg IVF in the Czech Republic but oh! how I wish I'd just got knocked-up by a couple of the very decent blokes I shagged in my twenties.

Where do you draw the line with 'morals' if you're not taking the bible as your yardstick? What do we do about co-habiting couples? Lesbians? Gay men? Single women buying sperm from clinics? Children having babies? Old women having babies? Liz Hurley deliberately impregnating herself with billionnaire Steve Bing's sperm?

How are you going to rate International's morals against a society which values all of the above and none of God's? How do you, as an atheist, do that? You have no right....

Writerwannabe83 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:17:20

I'm sorry - but this thread has just got too ridiculous now!!!

grin grin grin

Writerwannabe83 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:18:19

Take a 'Chill Pill' grin

Based on International's newest thread I don't think her FWB scenario is going to be continuing anyway.....

ZingWidge Thu 18-Jul-13 21:25:40

fifi669 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:28:56

I'm not an atheist.

I do have a son, he's 2 so a bit young to be worrying about him meeting someone like her.

I don't think old women or children should have babies. If it happens then its done, I don't believe in abortion. I think gay couples can make great parents, the lengths they have to go through to become parents shows their commitment. The ideal must always be a stable family in which to bring a child.

fifi669 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:29:44

What's her new thread? I promise not to bite this time...

Writerwannabe83 Thu 18-Jul-13 21:32:17

It is on the Conception page and is called something like, "I know I'm going to get flamed but I can't stop crying."

I'm going over for a look....

RaRaZ Fri 19-Jul-13 13:07:15

Sorry, Juicy, I have no right to have an opinion? Given you've been championing International's right to do whatever the f she wants, I find that a bit rich. Nor do I understand what religion has got to do with it. I'm not religious and never have been. Probably never will be. I'm particularly far distanced from Christianity. Doesn't mean I don't have my own set of morals - one of those being honesty. That's why I have a problem with International's behaviour. I also believe children are better of with a mother and a father - or at least a significant 'role model', for want of a better word, of each gender in their lives. I don't like International's decision to DELIBERATELY bring up her children without that.

fifi669 Fri 19-Jul-13 14:52:17


internationallove985 Sat 20-Jul-13 11:49:40

Winterwannabe. I checked the thread yesterday but I did not respond to what you said as my response would not have been very pleasant, but I would just like to say "Do you get some sick weird twisted pleasure from the upset of others, because that is what is seems like hence the big smile. in regards to my thread.
Also sorry to wipe the smile off your face here but he called me last night I wasn't going to answer but something told me to. I opened up about how he made me feel. (perhaps I am falling for him) I'm seeing him when he comes back and just going to see what happens because there could be something to save and if the result is a beautiful baby then being used will have been worth it. x

OhBuggerMe Sat 20-Jul-13 11:58:51

Yep you sure showed us didn't you hmm

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 11:59:34

In what way was my comment about the thread being ridiculous aimed at you??? My smile was actually at JuicyFatSteak because I thought her post was funny and OTT - hence the 'Chill Pill' comment!!

I do not appreciate your attitude in your post to me when nothing I said was directed at you.

Compared to what other people on here have said about you or to you I fail to see how I'm the sick and twisted one who likes upsetting you?

But actually - the whole situation is so childish - I just can't be arsed anymore.

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 12:01:04

I am intrigued though as to what he said when you told him you wanted a baby with him and ha din fact been TTC behind his back for a few moths already??

Or did you miss that bit out when you were telling him how you feel?

internationallove985 Sat 20-Jul-13 12:10:01

I still haven't mentioned T.T.C. x

OhBuggerMe Sat 20-Jul-13 12:22:11

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

ZingWidge Sat 20-Jul-13 12:28:44

Poor OP

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 12:30:06

hahahahahahaha OBM!!!!!!!!! grin grin

And your apology is accepted International....

....oh actually, my mistake....you didn't give me one!!!!!

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 12:31:12

And don't worry about me Zing (the OP) - International's shenanigans are FAR more interesting than any tales of me sticking my legs up in the air grin

ZingWidge Sat 20-Jul-13 13:12:37

ah writer it's you! <waves>

I'm on phone so have to flip the thread to see who the OP is....

oh well, as long as you're happy! wink

fifi669 Sat 20-Jul-13 18:47:43

She is now, a BFP and her chap knows they were trying.... grin

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 18:56:26


It was so funny when I told him over the phone that I'd had 4 BFPs - he just went silent and then said, "Bloody Hell!!" He was playing cricket at the time smile I have since been down to the cricket ground (to get my car that he was using) and as soon as he saw me, he ran from his fielding duties to come and give me a huge hug!! He looked so happy!!

fifi669 Sat 20-Jul-13 19:30:41

grin can't wait for us to have that moment too!

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 19:37:38

And that is why TTC with a willing partner is the best thing to do because we know that when we 'break the news' they are going to be as just as happy and excited as we are!!!!!

He actually looked like he had tears in his eyes smile

ZingWidge Sat 20-Jul-13 19:42:52

and they lived happily ever after.


ZingWidge Sat 20-Jul-13 19:43:09


Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 19:47:32

hahaha - be careful, you might get me labelled as some kind of Church Going, Cardigan Wearing Pearl Clutcher with a 'perfect life' grin

I'm just going to cross my fingers and pray that nothing goes wrong x

internationallove985 Sat 20-Jul-13 19:50:29

Those comments are obviously aimed at me! i.e willing "D.P'S ect. but if when I am blessed with the news of having a baby. I couldn't care less if he's pleased or vexed or what. I will have enough love for him/her.
Also I did not get that comment deleted. x

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 20:00:17

Thank you for your congratulations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

grin smile grin smile grin smile grin

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 20:01:09

On the other thread, you say that you are starting to have feelings for him.
So if he wants nothing to do with you once you are pregnant, what are you going to do about those feelings?

KeepTheFaithBaby Sat 20-Jul-13 20:33:20

Congratulations writer! Wonderful news! I wonder if sticking your legs up actually made the difference?! Either way I'm really pleased for you and what a lovely reaction from your OH grin wishing you a healthy and smooth pregnancy thanks

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 20:40:17

international. I am concerned about you. You dont value yourself very much do you?

Writerwannabe83 Sat 20-Jul-13 20:51:48

Thanks keepthefaith - according to hubby the whole thing is down to his "Super Sperm" grin

Men and their egos!!

internationallove985 Sat 20-Jul-13 20:58:44

Hi Yamsareyammy. No you're right I probably don't value myself well not sexually anyway. I never have done, really and I know I'll probably cave in and we'll DTD when I see him again. Can I be honest and say he's been my longest sexual partner. x

yamsareyammy Sat 20-Jul-13 21:38:47

Be careful, because he is using you too.

Dont know what to say really. I suspect, as I tried to say before, that a lot of your insecurities can be traced back to your childhood. But I understand your reluctance to talk about that on here.

qazxc Sat 20-Jul-13 23:00:59

Congratulations writer!
Will def try the legs in the air now ( i already do 20mins lying on my back anyway).
grin at "Super Sperm"

ZingWidge Sat 20-Jul-13 23:42:34


put a pillow under your bottom to lift / tilt your pelvis.

good luck

fifi669 Sun 21-Jul-13 10:34:05

writer has he got a John Wayne swagger now he's realised he's got super sperm? smile

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 10:43:32

Well - things aren't looking too good this morning sad

I tested this morning because my husband wanted to be there when I did it as I did it all on my own yesterday. It got a positive line but it was very faint which I wasn't expecting. I tested with another brand and that also came back as a faint positive. Both of these bands were the same ones I used yesterday when I got bolder lines. I then tried another brand and on that one no line appeared at all sad

I have since done a test with a Clear Blue and although it was positive, it was also a much fainter line than the one I got with yesterday's test.

So now I'm worried I'm having a chemical pregnancy sad

RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 11:48:35

Oh Writer sad . I really hope not. It doesn't look good, I know, but there may be another explanation.

Did you still use FMU?
Had you drunk a lot beforehand/peed during the night?

What brand were you using and what's the sensitivity? I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't expect the hormone levels to fall that quickly... hmm . Were the tests from the same pack? How many weeks are you? When did you miss your period?

Wishing you all the best and got my fingers very very tightly crossed that this works out ok for you and your husband flowers

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 11:53:17

I used FMU this morning and got faint lines. I had a drink before I went to bed about 11pm last night and then I did the tests about 7am when I woke up.

I have been using 4 different brands - all of which gave definite BFPs yesterday - nice bold lines smile.

I have used all the same brands today (from the same packs) and 3 of them still said positive but the lines were much lighter and took longer to appear. The other test came back negative.

My period is due today.

I'm having lots of support from MN members and they are making me feel a bit more positive about things that maybe it isn't over smile

RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 12:18:12

Ahh, I didn't realise you'd tested so early. It may well just be because of that - you're so early that your hormone levels aren't very high. The slightest variation in concentration of your urine could therefore affect the test results. Fingers crossed, don't despair x

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:28:13

Thanks RaRaz - I just can't help but feel it is too good to be true. It is all I have wanted for so long and maybe sheer panic is my way of adapting to the news!! smile

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 12:30:05

ps) I just tested again on my very last test, which coincidentally was the same test that gave me a BFN earlier, and there is a definite positive line grin grin

RaRaZ Sun 21-Jul-13 14:11:58

Great!!!! grin Now, stop testing for a day or two, hey? You're still very early and your hormone levels will be very low and may not always show up - you're gonna stress yourself out if you keep testing. You're pregnant - so mega congratulations! flowers - so be happy and fingers crossed you will stay that way. Best of luck smile x

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 14:21:47

Thanks RaRaz - my fears have been buried after having POAs of the digital Variety (which my husband just bought me) and the screen reads: "Pregnant. 2-3"

There's no mistaking that!!! grin

I still can't quite believe it though!!

We have only had sex 3 times, lol grin

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 14:31:31

winter 1x is all it takes!grin

and Congratulations! thanks
now stop pissing around!grin

Writerwannabe83 Sun 21-Jul-13 14:36:05

hahaha - no more POAS I promise!!!!!! grin
Thanks for all your kind words x thanks

ZingWidge Sun 21-Jul-13 15:01:26

atta girl!

now get your preggers arse back to you know where wink and tell them the good news!

qazxc Sun 21-Jul-13 20:47:24

don't worry about the varying lines at this early stage the concentration in the urine will vary depending on how much you are drinking and peeing.
A line is a line, you can't be "a little bit" pregnant (you either are or you're not).
Stop stressing and enjoy yourself!

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now