If this isn't implantation bleeding, what the hell is it?!

(76 Posts)
Shnook Wed 10-Apr-13 23:14:45

Right - with 1st baby, cycle was always exactly 27 days. Had few pink dots of spotting a few days before period due and that was that -pregnant -great!

TTC again now and periods are less consistent - every 26-29 days. Did ovulation test on day 8 and it was +ve although I was sceptical as period only ended 2 days before and although the lines matched they were quite pale. Did the deed though and next day OT was -ve.

Now on day 12, I have been bleeding all day. Started only when I wipe - first red, then watery red. have put a pad on tonight and thats got brown staining but again when I wipe, its watery red. Surely this is all too early too be an implantation bleed?? So what is it? Should I be concerned??

Shnook Thu 11-Apr-13 08:13:28

This morning its red blood. Like a period. Could it really be a period on day 12?!?

babyrose Thu 11-Apr-13 08:15:15

Hi shnook, my af is also 26-29 days but most recent went up to 30 once.

The bleeding could be ovulation some woman do get this and others don't. I had it when TTC ds for a few months (ds is coming up for 3!) now I don't get it at all apart from once at xmas.

Are u still bleeding this morning?

Shnook Thu 11-Apr-13 08:44:42

Hi babyrose. Yes still bleeding. Having to use a pad - it looks just like a period. Didnt realise you could bleed when ovulating - although I've just done a OT to check and it was -ve. I really want to believe its implantation bleeding but it just seems like too much blood....

Shnook Thu 11-Apr-13 22:59:05

Well, the bleeding got heavier throughout today so I took a pregnancy test just now and it was +ve so I can only assume this is a very early miscarriage (conception would've been just 5 days ago). Am going to go to GP in the morning sad

EuroShaggleton Thu 11-Apr-13 23:06:05

It's more likely that you conceived the previous month and had a period anyway as some women do. If you only got a positive OPK on day 8, you probably ovulated on day 9 or 10, so day 13 would surely be too early to get a positive.

Shnook Thu 11-Apr-13 23:38:46

Yes, it does all seem very early. But why would the OT have been +ve on day 8 if I was already pregnant?

Jellykitten1 Thu 11-Apr-13 23:39:38

Shnook Hopefully I've read your details correctly, please ignore if I have mistaken some of the details in your post (rather tired!!)

if there was an egg and it had been fertilised wouldn't have had chance to travel down the fallopian tube and implant yet. so it wouldn't be a miscarriage from a conception 5 days ago. Pretty much definitely not.

I also don't think it is ovulation bleeding, it's not that common and it would be tiny spotting not full flow if at all. Also your OPK have been showing -ve which is not consistent with the bleeding being ovulation.

Euro's proposal is not likely either as if you were pg from the month before, it would still be rare to have a period, and also that doesn't fit with getting a +ve on the OPK this month. It's a possible theory but not likely.

The OPK +ve at day 8 is also quite rare as luteal phases are generally 12-16 days with the average being 14. So 16 days is longer than most women's, but taking even the longest general length of 16 days that would still only put your cycle this month at 24 days long (8 days up to ovulation plus 16 days in the post-ov luteal phase) which would still be short for your cycle as you've described.

I do think you should definitely go to the doctor to discuss this mid-cycle bleeding. Any changes in bleeding should be noted/monitored. but I really don't think you have been pregnant from what you say, as there are a lot of elements that don't add up. Certainly it would be almost impossible to be experiencing a miscarriage involving significant bleeding only 5 days after possible ovulation and still only 13 days into a cycle.

Hope the doctor can give you some reassurance/answers.

Shnook Thu 11-Apr-13 23:55:03

I agree with you Jellykitten (and yes, think you got my details right!) - it doesnt add up to me either but I definitely had a +ve pregnancy test tonight. I certainly thought it was weird to ovulate just 2 days after the end of my period, because that just seems too early and with baby No 1, I always ovulated right near the end of my cycle. And I wouldn't have expected an early miscarriage to cause this much blood either. I guess all will be revealed by the GP....well, I hope so anyway.

BTW, I get that "OPK"refers to ovulation tests but dont understand the abbreviation - is it "ovulation prediction kit"?? (sorry, I'm a newbie).

Shnook Fri 12-Apr-13 16:55:19

Looks like you were right, Jellykitten. Saw GP and he said the dates just dont make sense. He thinks it must be some weird hormone glitch that has not only caused the bleed (which is still happening) but also rhe positive OT and +ve pregnancy test. Oh well, just hope I go back to normal and can get back on it next month!

Jellykitten1 Fri 12-Apr-13 17:30:46

Glad you went to see the doc, Shnook, he can keep an eye on it. Hopefully your cycle will be back to normal next month. If it's not, I'm sure the doctor will consider some tests. All the best.

willitbe Fri 12-Apr-13 17:37:48

When pregnant you get positive ovulation tests, so I find it baffling that you have got negative ovulation tests while you are pregnant. Does seem more likely that you would be around 6 weeks pregnant with bleeding, rather than getting a positive test 6 days post ovulation. I think that if you have a clear positive pregnancy test then your gp should be sending you to an early pregnancy unit for assessment .

Shnook Fri 12-Apr-13 17:43:56

I know what you mean, willitbe, but I do understand what GP is saying about the dates not making sense. According to the tests, I ovulated, got pregnant and miscarried all within 4 days. and I can see what youre saying about maybe being 6 wks PG - but I did have a normal period in that time. I will see how the bleeding goes and go back to GP if necessary. I will keep you all posted - thank you so much for your comments.

Jellykitten1 Fri 12-Apr-13 18:33:01

willitbe, it's not baffling that OP has negative OPKs whilst she is pregnant - for the reason she is not pregnant!

There was only one faint +ve OPK on day 8 of her cycle and the rest were negative. It is too rare for the OP to be 6 weeks pg aand have a normal period and get negative OPKS with one weak +ve OPK on day 8. Her cycle has gone on a random journey this month, this is not pregnancy. It is also impossible for OP to be pregnant and miscarrying from only 5 days post ovulation too.

There is a lot of talk always about implantation and ovulation bleeding on here, and having periods whilst pregnant. These are not common occurences but because they are so talked about on here it feels like they are, which is concerning because when posters are convinced they are implantation/ovulation/early pregnancy bleeding they can overlook other reasons for bleeding to occur, such as hormone imbalances.

The OP's doctor has assessed her case and concluded it is likely a hormone imbalance, hopefully random. Time will tell but I'm sure OP will be straight back to docs if cycle is not back to normal next month.

Jellykitten1 Fri 12-Apr-13 18:35:12

Having said all that, rare is not impossible smile someone has to be that rare one, non?

Shnook Fri 12-Apr-13 21:19:00

Wish I could settle the argument!! I will update when anything changes...

Shnook Fri 12-Apr-13 22:51:58

Bleeding seems to be easing up a bit. Do you think my next period will be at some arbitrary date? Or should I view this bleed as a period and so the start of my cycle? When should I start doing OTs again?

Jellykitten1 Sat 13-Apr-13 00:33:35

You can only really know by comparison. I would keep a diary tracking any CM etc. I personally would think this is breakthrough bleeding of some sort but whether it will "re-set" your periods I don't know.

try not to worry (!) but wait and see what happens and if you're not happy in the meantime then go back to the doctor. I'm sure it'll all turn out fine. let us know how you get on!

Shnook Sat 13-Apr-13 08:27:57

Hi Jellykitten. Have got my diary out already to start tracking! Thanks for your kind words smile

willitbe Sat 13-Apr-13 17:06:13

Sorry I clearly misunderstood I thought you said you had a positive pregnancy test.!

willitbe Sat 13-Apr-13 17:11:37

Bleeding in pregnancy is not uncommon. Break-through bleeding does occur and can be similar to a normal period. It occurs at the point the period would have been due.

A midwife I knew had it for three months and did not realise the fact that she was putting on weight while dieting was because she was pregnant! She found out she was four months pregnant after missing one "period".

No it would not be possible to get a positive test four days after ovulation, hence why I assumed that the last period could have been break-through bleeding. Hope that makes sense.

Themobstersknife Sat 13-Apr-13 17:18:29

I thought you couldn't get a false positive? Did the doctor do blood tests? I bled through both of my succesful pregnancies. Are you sure you might not be pregnant from the previous month? Sorry if I have misunderstood something.

willitbe Sat 13-Apr-13 17:28:48

Shnook - if you did get a positive pregnancy test, you should test again to see if it is still positive.

I don't know of any usual hormone imbalance (other than post-menopausal) that would give a positive pregnancy test. Perhaps someone else does, but a positive pregnancy test with bleeding should not be just put down to hormone imbalance, the gp was wrong to do this.

Shnook Sat 13-Apr-13 22:28:19

Hi willitbe and themobstersknife. I did get a +ve PG test - it was 5 days after the +ve OT. But you read my mind - I did another PG test yesterday and it was -ve. The bleeding has slowed right down now. Also, I havent had any kind of pain out anything at all (my periods are normally pretty painless too).

Dr didnt do any blood tests. He considered that I might be pregnant from the month before but as I was so sure I'd had a normal period since then, he thought it was unlikely.

I feel ok about all this but must be honest, if it happens again next month, I will probably start worrying. I dont know what else can cause this kind of bleeding and I'm trying not to google as I know I will end up scaring myself!

willitbe Sat 13-Apr-13 22:40:49

Shnook really pleased to hear you are doing ok. Having had many early miscarriages myself, it does sound to me like you had an very early miscarriage from the month before. I have had very similar to what you have described with one of my miscarriages being totally painless at 6 weeks following an earlier bleed at around 5 weeks.

The positive opk could/would have been picking up the reducing hcg levels. And the subsequent negative being as the hcg levels reached a lower level.

Good news is that many women following miscarriages at 5 or 6 weeks go straight back into a normal cycle again, but don't be surprised if you cycle is a couple of days out either.

Also many women conceive immediately following and early miscarriage. So I wish you all the best and hope that you are pregnant again really soon.grin

Shnook Sat 13-Apr-13 22:55:22

Willitbe, thank you. And sorry to hear of your miscarriages. I'm never going to know for sure what happened (unless, I suppose, it happens again and I have some kind of tests). But I've just got to keep trying and hope I get pg soon. I'm just kicking myself for not starting to TTC sooner - think I stupidly thought it would be as easy as the first time round.

Soon as this bleeding stops, I will be POAS like there's no tomorrow!

willitbe Sun 14-Apr-13 07:42:43

Shnook, just one more suggestion, in case you are waiting for opk being positive before having intercourse, opk's can be very misleading, as a previous poster said you can ovulate before the opk turns positive. I was involved in a fertility trial and it showed that if I had waited til positive opk, the on most months it would have been too late. Sperm are better being in place before ovulation.

Do google the "sperm meets egg plan" it is on a miscarriage website, but it is a very good plan to follow using opk's. (apologies if you already know this!). Hope you get pregnant soon.

Shnook Sun 14-Apr-13 07:51:12

No, I didnt know that! So basically I just need this bloomin bleeding to stop so I can get to work!!

Interesting that you were involved in a fertility trial - I hope it worked for you??

FloJo151 Sun 14-Apr-13 08:16:08

hi Shnook, i had something similar last aug. I had a period which finished on a sat, the following wed (having dtd sun and mon!) started bleeding again but only brown discharge, this stopped on he sat so did a test on mon morn was +ive so did 2 more, mon avo and tues morn with fmu which were both +ive. the following week did another test on the mon -ive, started bleeding the next day. According to the midwife its very unlikely that i got pregnant just before the brown bleeding as timescales were not big enough so either iwas pregnant before the period before or that period was in fact an early mc and the +ives were picking up left over hormones (although i had a -ive est before that period) So really i still dont know entirely exactly what happened! My periods were always on time after but were 24/5 day cycles until the new year when they went up to 27. hope it all works out for you smile

Shnook Sun 14-Apr-13 08:29:27

Hi flojo151. encouraging to know youve experienced something similar. Did the bleeding reset your periods or did it come when you wouldve expected it if you'd not had the weird bleed?

Souper Sun 14-Apr-13 08:45:12

Hi. I think you were pregnant. The OT would be positive in this case not because you were ovulating but because you were pregnant. A PT tests for a hormone called HCG and a OT tests for a hormone called LH. They are really similar homones and a OT will often show a positive result to HCG. See poas.com for details of how you can sort of use a OT as a pregnancy test. I can't link as on phone. Hope you are okay OP.

Shnook Sun 14-Apr-13 08:50:51

Hi souper. Only thing is, the OT was +ve on day 8, then -ve on day 9, then bleed started day 12 and +ve pg on day 13 - so if I was PG, it's odd that I had that -ve OT.

It's all v strange. But yes, I am ok thank you smile

Souper Sun 14-Apr-13 08:53:30

That is true but false negatives are much more common than false positives. And an early miscarriage makes much more sense than a 'hormonal blip' confused

Shnook Tue 07-May-13 20:27:37

Update - got my af today exactly 28 days after the random bleed I first posted about. So it must have reset my cycle.

Really quite down about it, especially as I did OPKs after that bleed stopped and never got a +ve. Closest I got was Sat 27th (18 days into cycle) when I got a dark line (but not dark enough). Other than that I either got no line or just a very, very faint one. Did Opks up to the following monday - didnt seem much point after that. Does this mean I'm not ovulating??!

Shnook Wed 08-May-13 15:54:04

HELP! AF hasnt kicked in - nothing on pad, just notice it when I wipe. Started off red (and thick gloopy) and - tmi -even dripped down my leg in shower on 1st day (yesterday). Today there was red gloop this morning and now brown gloop/ brown tissue when I wipe.

SOOO....just did a pg and got a v feint bfp!! Is this an implantation bleed or a mc?? When I had implantation bleed with dd, it was literally a one off of a few dots of pink.

Shnook Wed 08-May-13 16:36:47

...just been to loo again.nothing on pad still but definitely red blood when I wipe. This is going to end in tears isn't it?

Shnook Wed 08-May-13 19:52:55

Please -any advice anyone?

Hegsy Wed 08-May-13 20:14:09

Is there a local EPU you can contact? Wish I had some proper advice but I have no experience sorry xx

Shnook Wed 08-May-13 20:34:48

Hello Hegsy, thank you for your response - I'm not sure actually, will have a look. Thing is, when I had the weird bleed I originally posted about, I called 111 and they just told me to see GP. I'm just praying the bleeding stops and that I get another +ve tomorrow. I guess I'm just hoping someone else has had the exact same thing and it turned out ok.

Shnook Thu 09-May-13 07:52:58

No bleeding overnight. Did a test this morning, still +ve but v, v feint which I take as a bad sign. As soon as I did the test, I noticed blood again when I wiped, with a big bit of mucous in it. Cant see that this is going to turn out ok. Seeing GP on weds. Trying to be philosophical but really worried it's going to keep happening.

So what can I do to prevent this happening again, if anything? I'm trying to stay healthy, taking vits, not had alcohol at all since christmas...anything else?

BartBaby Thu 09-May-13 12:52:41

Hi shnook, again im sorry i have no advice for you either, im not sure what is happening but i really hope the doctor can help. We have fingers crossed for you though xx

Shnook Thu 09-May-13 13:20:56

Thank you so much Bartbaby. X

Shnook Thu 09-May-13 16:57:05

Hope I'm not doing people's heads in with my constant updates - but I just did another test (just can't help myself) and this was +ve with a definite strong line. It was a CB test - the one I did yday which was faint was a First Response as was the one this morning which was even fainter. Im stupid arent I? Because now I've got my hopes up that all will be ok even though im still getting blood when I wipe.

lia66 Thu 09-May-13 17:00:23

I would self refer to epu or ask gp for referral ASAP where they will possibly scan you and or do blood tests . Hope it works out for you. Fwiw, if you were very early pg it's unlikely you'd still be getting +, as the hormones would diminish quickly in the early weeks.

Have had several mc at different stages. Good luck x

Shnook Thu 09-May-13 17:29:29

Thank you - going to call GP tonight, then Epu. Thank you all so much for reading/replying. X

BNmum Thu 09-May-13 22:05:34

I hope the GP can give you some answers Shnook and confirm your BFP.

Shnook Thu 09-May-13 22:52:09

Thank you, BNmum. GP was closed and need a referral for EPU. so will try GP again in morning. Seems to have faded to light brown when I wipe now but I've thought it's stopped a few times and then it's come back again. Will test again in morning and try GP again.

lia66, so sorry to hear youve had several mcs. I feel foolish for fretting when I read what other people have gone through - what's possibly happening to me isn't nice but I got the bleeding first, then the +ve pg so to me, if this doesnt work out, I think I will deal with it as I havent even had time to get used to the idea of bring pg. But it must be devastating to find out youre pregnant, have all the excitement of looking forward to a baby and then start to mc- it's happened to friends and I know it's heartbreaking.

I will keep you all posted - thank you. X

Shnook Sun 12-May-13 17:45:10

Saw GP. Says its too early for a scan so I have to go back in 2 wks. Wants to rule out ectopic (although so far I've had no pain which i suppose is a good sign?)

Bleeding has settled into weird pattern - v faint light brown when I wipe throughout day but one episode of red on pad each evening (for the past 3 nights). Before that, it was just red or brown when I wiped. Still getting +ve tests (am doing one every morn!) Could this be some kind of weird period breakthrough bleeding?

lia66 Sun 12-May-13 20:34:00

You first posted about this on 10th April, that's a month ago. A transvaginal scan would show up a heartbeat by now or a yoke sac I'm sure.

I'd be more persistence tbh, is there any way you could afford a private viability scan? Where in the country are you?

Shnook Sun 12-May-13 21:03:22

Hi lia66, Dr is going by that date - he thinks I'm 4 weeks but says thats too soon. I'm in London. Not sure how much scans are??

lia66 Sun 12-May-13 22:57:58

Oh I see sad well if you're only 4 wks then I'd say the pos hpt is good.
I guess in London a private scan would be fairly expensive. If you could get to Kings Hill in Kent it's £50 for a scan. Kent medical imaging I think it's called x

lia66 Sun 12-May-13 23:00:14

When was your period due discounting all the bleeding?

What day of cycle are you on now?

Shnook Sun 12-May-13 23:23:43

If we discount the 2 lots of weird bleeding, lmp was 30th March so next one wouldve been due somewhere around 25th-28th April - so I suppose i'd be on about day 17-20 of my cycle. Dr is counting the first weird bleed (10th April, 6 days long, V heavy - more so than a period) as lmp. Hope you can follow all this - losing track myself...!

Yes, I can get to Kings Hill. £50 is fine -thought you were going to say some ridiculous amount!

lia66 Mon 13-May-13 00:41:27

Perhaps give the a call tomorrow then, they were very accommodating to me on the times I've been to them and very sweet when all was not well.

I suppose I can see docs thinking but no one knows for sure what that bleeding was all about. Could have been a twin pregnancy for instance and you're now approaching month 2 with the surviving twin.

Docs are not pg experts.

Let us know how you get on x

lia66 Mon 13-May-13 00:42:11

And I have my fingers very firmly crossed for a positive outcome .

Shnook Mon 13-May-13 15:27:32

Thanks so much lia66. Interesting what you say about twins. I will give them a call and post an update.

BNmum Tue 14-May-13 12:24:38

How are you feeling today Schnook? Are you still bleeding? Thinking of you and hoping it all goes well.

Shnook Tue 14-May-13 12:55:03

Hi Bnmum. I'm feeling fine, thank you so much. The bleeding stopped Sunday. So it lasted 6 days..exactly the same length of my periods but absolutely nothing like a period.

Here's the weirdest thing....i have a bump....not a small bump, a big enough one that people at work are staring at it. This has literally appeared almost overnight! Surely I can't be 4wks (or 5 as it would be now) and already have a bump??!

Lia66 -having spoken with my hubby, now the bleeding has (hopefully) stopped we've decided not to get a private scan and instead are going back to the Dr earlier...esp now I think I'm further along than I thought. But if I feel worried, I will def take your advice and get a private scan.

BNmum Tue 14-May-13 13:10:23

That's great news Shnook. Maybe twins are on the cards? Keep us posted.

Shnook Tue 14-May-13 13:40:27

You read my mind - oh God!! Thank you so much for your kind words, by the way smile

In terms of ectopic risk, do MNers think its a good sign that bleeding seems to have stopped, it wasn't heavy and I've not had pain? Or do I still need to be a bit wary?

Liquoriceallsort Tue 14-May-13 13:56:08

I've been watching this story... What lovely news that everything turned out well smile no helpful input from me I just wanted to wish you a happy and healthy pregnancy xx

lia66 Tue 14-May-13 14:55:50

I have no personal experience of ectopic but from others stories I would expect you be in pain by now and bleeding. I'm no expert though.

Its not uncommon for some women to have breakthrough bleeding when their period would have been due during the first trimester of pg btw. It's not "normal", any bleeding in pg should be checked out, buts it's not uncommon.

I shall keep my fingers crossed and look out for an update from you in due course.

Ftyap - for today, you are pregnant smile

BNmum Tue 14-May-13 15:39:26

Do twins run in the family? I also don't have any experience of ectopic but I would think it would be causing you a lot of discomfort by now.

Shnook Tue 14-May-13 15:48:29

Ladies, thank you all for advice, well wishes and taking an interest -youve been a God-send. Hopefully, i'll have a healthy scan and all will be well - will keep you posted. We shall see re twins...!

Mythreeknights Tue 14-May-13 16:11:41

Shnook I'm following this with interest. I had a BFP yesterday but have had brown discharge all day on and off. Not enough to go through a pad, but enough to stain my knickers. I'm in theory 4 weeks pg, maybe 4+2. I have never had this before (I have 2 DSs), and my plan is to leave it til Friday then re-test and take a judgement then. I know what you mean about remaining detached from it as it is so early on, but still, it's frustrating that the waiting from the 2WW is now ongoing! Good luck and keep us posted.

Shnook Tue 14-May-13 17:08:59

Hi mythreeknights. Hopefully its just an implantation bleed? You're patient waiting til Friday - I tested every day I bled, it's cost me a fortune!!

Really hope it's all ok for you. Keep us posted! smile

Mythreeknights Wed 15-May-13 14:44:44

Thanks Shnook - I'm still spotting a little but not much :-) My boobs seem to have doubled in size overnight so I'm happy to leave off the testing until Friday - as you say it is flipping expensive! How are things with you? Have you got an early scan booked in?

Shnook Wed 15-May-13 15:55:00

Sounds promising - really hope you confirm your bfp on fri smile.

Im ok, feeling knackered though! Cant see Dr til Tues so scan won't be til after then. Still not bleeding though so just hope that continues.

BNmum Wed 15-May-13 20:33:16

Best of luck with both your pregnancies mythreeknights and shnook

Shnook Wed 15-May-13 20:48:47

Thank you smile

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Thu 16-May-13 23:59:14

Ectopic may only show as bleeding for a while. Pain kicks in between week 6 and 11 IIRC. I MC an ectopic in Feb at nearly 7 weeks. I just had a few twinges.
Crossing everything for you. smile
And, buy £1 shop tests. Very sensitive, and very cheap. They kept me sane and solvent! grin

Shnook Thu 23-May-13 19:35:44

Update- had a scan. Am 6 weeks and all looks normal at this stage - just hoping it stays that way smile

SaggyOldClothCatPuss Thu 23-May-13 21:51:20

That's marvellous. grin congratulations!

Shnook Fri 24-May-13 08:30:48

Thanks Saggy!

BNmum Mon 27-May-13 08:12:41

Whoop whoop! Just thought and check in for an update and I'm over the moon to see that all is well. Best of luck for the rest of the pregnancy! Xx

Shnook Mon 27-May-13 17:57:21

Thank you,BNmum!

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