TTC 10+ months thread 12

(999 Posts)
buzzybee123 Fri 21-Dec-12 13:56:58

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Fri 21-Dec-12 13:59:56

Marking my spot. And a belated welcome to the most recent delurker!

buzzybee123 Fri 21-Dec-12 14:08:04

Sorry about that ladies but the NHS have a timer on the crap computer and it cuts out at 2pm

lemon tummy grumbles could be good you never know smile

sar sorry about af, just remember that tomorrow you are going to be the beautiful sister of the bride, nothing else matters right now

well better get back to it, this is longest half hour lunch break in history

akuabadoll Fri 21-Dec-12 14:42:40

Marking my place too grin good to see you back on the last thread art Thanks for all the lovely words bout pic ladies, it cheered me to post it and to read. I couldn't see your pics though euro I need to reg on the site I guess?
mrsden are so sorry to hear of your horrid shock, you poor thing.
sar boo to period arrival.
We have landed in the rainy island, knackered and unfortunately missed shag week under the pressure of the last days, well of course apart from one bit-too-early-shag which is there just so you can't discount the cycle completely. Grrrrr.

mrsden Fri 21-Dec-12 14:50:07

Thanks for our new home buzzy. I've finished for Christmas now woo hoo! I'm waiting for dh to come home and then we're going to go cut down a Christmas tree.

Naokosan Fri 21-Dec-12 14:59:57

Thank you everyone for such a warm welcome and words of encouragement, they are much appreciated.

Critter - I will keep that in mind when speaking to the doctor. I hope you enjoyed your boozy Christmas party.

Sar - so sorry AF arrived, head feck cycles are the worst. I hope you get more answers and good luck in the new year. I would definitely consider acupuncture or reflexology, I think I'd like to read a bit more into it though. Do any of you have any positive experiences?

Rabbit & buzzy - I have experience of having pets snipped too, it always feels a bit wrong. Poor things. My childhood cat went into hiding after her trip to the vets. She didn't come out from her hideyhole for days.

I'm excited to hear all the quilting chat too, it's something I've wanted to learn for ages but have always been a bit put off because it looks so complicated.

I hope everyone is doing nice christmassy things. I finished work yesterday so having a lazy day today. I have a Christmas do tonight but I'm not going because i cant be bothered with a smug pregnant ex-colleague who will be there. She fell pregnant by accident with a guy she'd been seeing for two months. Pah. So instead I'm treating myself to the biggest bowl of mac n cheese you've ever seen and watching Christmas films while waiting for mr naoko to get home.

Naokosan Fri 21-Dec-12 15:00:43

Mrsden, I'm impressed at cutting down your own tree.

EuroShagmore Fri 21-Dec-12 17:05:19

doll I've made it private again as drizz kindly pointed out to me that you could see my name on the page. I don't guard my privacy that closely on here, but it might be best not to advertise who I am that blatently. You never know who might be lurking.

mrsd you are cutting down a tree?!?

Naoko that sounds lovely. I'm waiting for a friend to come round. I might make Xmassy biscuits in a mo. And then we are going to watch Bridesmaids and drink mulled wine. smile

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Fri 21-Dec-12 17:12:06

Done for the year smile Well, I am working between Christmas and NYE formally, but have decided to take all my owed study leave. I might do some studying (two papers due in January) but no actual work.

Nao does eating ginger biscuits count? I made loads of Christmassy ones and took about half to the in-laws yesterday. The other half is rapidly disappearing down my tummy. Which is still not happy. And we're out for dinner and pubbage afterwards. YAY for fun, but I hope it will settle the insides.

Waves and tailfeathers to all of you!

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Fri 21-Dec-12 17:12:33

Indeed shock at cutting down your own tree. WOW!

akuabadoll Fri 21-Dec-12 17:17:34

Ah I see euro yes I guess that is best.
lemon eating ginger biscuits counts smile

Naokosan Fri 21-Dec-12 17:28:31

Euro Your night also sounds lovely.

And lemon, ginger biscuits definitely count! Yum.

CritterPants Fri 21-Dec-12 17:32:29

<Shambles in, slurping Alka Seltzer> Party last night was a lot of fun. I forgot how much fun it is to get glammed up with red lippie and very high heels and swill white wine late into the evening, in a very child/preggo-unfriendly fashion. Hurrah.

mrsd I am so sorry that you're having such a rough time. Sar said it better than I could on the other thread. The tube problem is overcomable, but it is healthy to be upset by this awful surpr. It's a bloody nasty shock and just so unfair.

sar I am so sorry about AF arrival. I wish your body wouldn't send you such confusing signals, it is so unfair. Good luck at the wedding sweetpea.

naoko mac and cheese is the answer to many of life's ills, I find. wink

lemon hooray for being done for the year! Today's my last day in the office and there's very much a last day of term feel.

doll welcome home!

Back in a bit... just grabbing lunch...

buzzybee123 Fri 21-Dec-12 17:41:15

yay I have finished work until the 31st grin grin grin had alot of what we term as 'non patient related liason/meeting' this afternoon grin

euro Kayla isn't too bad about the laughing, my sisters old cat would attack you if you laughed at her hmm she took after my sister grin great photos, didn't notice your name not like we move in the same circles wink, can I ask what camera you have, Barry and I are into photography I have a picasa and flickr account but have my name all over them, but on FB if anyone wants to know grin

lemon you can never have to much yarn or fabric wink I have projects lined up and waiting, I had a look at ebay at some lovely fabric, would need to get a sewing machine too...............

doll welcome home smile

mrsd obviously health and safety isn't a problem where you are if you can cut down your own tree, it sounds like a family xmas movie where they go out in the snow and choose their tree . . .

nao can understand the not wanting to go, I had two colleagues from maternity leave show up, one knows my history the other one might do, but she is alright so it wasn't too bad, avoided all the baby talk. I have already gained weight with all the chocolates and biscuits we get, there is still so much at work to eat shock oh well never mind

Well I've had an odd couple of days, I am finally ovulating a bit later than normal cd16 usually i'm cd12, DTD yesterday under slight protest as Barry is sick AGAIN angry I have told him that always being sick around ovulation isn't very helpful smile
I have again this month felt emotional in the first half of my cycle and not at the end bit, not really sure why but I had a cry with my colleague when I talked about IVF, then with a friend when she talked about her dead grandma, I never met the woman!!! Oh I am usually hungry after ovulation and eat anything not nailed down but had that in the first 2 weeks hmm Anyway Barry has tonight to recover before he needs to put in another performance, I keep telling him I'm trying to save him money by doing it ourselves and not needing IVF smile

Princess Kayla has now forgiven us for yesterday, Barry and I are very grateful grin not sure how she is going to be on Monday when we take back for her check up hmm

I'm starting to get excited about the new year for all of us grin

CritterPants Fri 21-Dec-12 18:56:29

Aw buzzy poor little kayla. Not much fun. I remember when my sister was abroad she was looking after a dog who got pregnant, and my sister only found out after the dog built herself a nest under the bed, ready to have the puppies. Sister critter had to take her to get a doggie abortion and neutered. sad sad So you are doing the right thing for Kayla in the long run! I feel so uplifted and cheered by your posts buzz. thanks

euro Bridesmaids and mulled wine sounds like the perfect evening.

I love all the craft talk on this thread. You ladies never cease to cheer me up and inspire me. I think I might take some knitting to Scotland with me. I love the idea of quilting but don't you need a sewing machine to do it? I mean, I know people didn't have them in the olden days, but I reckon it might be needed to prevent frustration with hand-sewing all the little pieces of fabric together. I have to say that doing something creative has been one of the most soothing and soul-restoring things this year for me. I went to one of those paint a canvas and drink parties - they have places where you can pay to have access to loads of art materials and a canvas for two hours and drink wine and have at it - and it was the most relaxing thing ever. It just helps with turning off the TTC-obsessed hamster that is usually racing on a little wheel in my brain.

Quick question for charting pros. Is it normal for your post ovulation line to dip a little and then be basically flat? Or should it keep rising until a couple of days before your period arrives, then dip down? Having never had a temp rise before, I am curious. At 9dpo, mine seems to have flattened out - it's been almost exactly the same temp (still high) for the past three days.

akuabadoll Fri 21-Dec-12 20:03:18

critter what you have temp wise sounds 'normal' if there is such a thing. Up after ov then roughly the same until period or just before period. Don't ask me bout crafting though grin

buzzybee123 Fri 21-Dec-12 20:05:54

critter according my ledger after ovulation it would go up to around 36.78 then after that it would vary between 36.89 and 37.12, so as long as it is high then all is good :-) mine usually drops around cd27/28.
Glad you had fun at the party grin I'm feeling all optimistic right now

joycep Fri 21-Dec-12 21:04:35

wow thread 12 - and it will be 2 years old in March. And i'm off until 2013 now…whooopeeee.

welcome Naokosan. I also have a short lp - 10/11 days . Some people say it's a problem and others say it's not but many people do get pregnant with short lps.

Critter - thanks for that adoption link. Out of interest can Brits adopt from the States? I was talking to my bro last night about this as he lives in the US. he wasn't sure. I see David Miliband adopted their 2 kids from the States but then his wife is American. Also your chart sounds very normal. High is good.

Buzzy - poor little Kayla but i am glad she has forgiven you. Sorry you have felt emotional the first half of the month. I've been very snappy this first half. I am not sure why.

Sar - oh i'm sorry about AF. What a head fick and not what you need. I hope everything goes well this weekend and everything settles down .

Rabbit - love the fact you aren't talking fertility until the new year. Good on you.

mrsd - sorry about your sleepless night. Can i suggest a christmas mulled wine to relax you?

Euro - i love Bridesmaids and mulled wine. Have a great weekend.

So my monitoring cycle is over. - ovulation is confirmed. My immune results are in and I've been told I'm going on SP. I have high NK cells but everything else is normal. This will be treated through Ivig or some steroid something during treatment. I believe Ivig is the intravenous blood product but i won't think about that now. I am relieved I am doing SP as i didn't want to downreg and I think people with very low amh get put on SP. But does anyone actually have success with SP? Why do some people go on LP? I'm just curious…

So I think i will be cracking on pretty soon - whenever AF comes. On that note, i raise a glass to christmas and the coming new year. smile

ThatWayMadnessLies Fri 21-Dec-12 21:16:30

Evening all. Shiny new thread ready for a shiny new year grin

rabbit pleased to hear that you are being so expertly distracted.

critter I would go mad if I had to hand stitch everything. Those old fashioned quilters must have the patients of saints!!

buzzy glad that kayla has forgiven you. Our dog refused to believe that he'd been fixed. He would still have a go with any dog regardless of gender or person for that matter that would stand still long enough blush

euro the photos looked lovely. I'm a rubbish photographer.

doll were you not able to bring along some sunshine? Welcome back!!

lemon hooray for holidays and nights out.

Finally curled up on the sofa in my dressing gown after a busier than it should have been day. Went to see the gp this morning who generally reassured me. Popped to the nurse for some stitch removal (just the ones that were sticking straight out and catching on things) and she said that they didn't look like dissolving stitches at all shock. The hospital explicitly said they were but a week later and they don't seem to be going anywhere..... I'm to go back if the other ones don't disappear on their own but that will of course be Christmas so hopefully they won't be in too long and stick [queasy emoticon]. Popped out with MrM playing chauffeur and saw some friends. Returned home a bit too late and settled down for a really quiet evening with the iPad only to be rung by the gp to say I needed to pick up a prescription confused. Turns out the cultures they did after surgery tested positive for a streptococcal infection so now I am on three different antibiotics sad. Stomach was just starting to settle on the first two..... Oh well. One more week and hopefully I will be all clear and can start 2013 healthy and ready to move on to ivf.

Waves to everyone else. Here's to happy and festive weekends for us all.

ThatWayMadnessLies Fri 21-Dec-12 21:19:29

X-post joycep very positive developments indeed. I'll join you in raising a glass of water for now but wine soon

joycep Fri 21-Dec-12 21:28:26

madness - oh dear what is a streptococcal infection? I can't believe you have had all this going on. Also i was told mine were dissolving stitches but they certainly weren't...maybe if you soak them in a bath they dissolve. Look after yourself.

buzzybee123 Fri 21-Dec-12 22:02:36

madness sorry about the infection sad rest up and look after youself, I'm hoping that is it for Kayla.

joy I have high nk cells, they usually prescribe prednisolone, some will have you taking it from ovulation others from a BFP confused the same with the Ivig, depends on your nk level. First enjoy xmas. I sure alot of women have success on SP, there are lots of baby pictures on the wall at Create, soon mini buzzy euro and gin will be up there smile, The impression I got from Create is that LP is so that the hospitals can control the day they collect eggs as they don't work 7 days. I imagine some women need LP, but Creates attitude is the less interfering the better.

buzzybee123 Fri 21-Dec-12 22:07:13

just looked at the side of the sofa and its been shredded shock

ThatWayMadnessLies Fri 21-Dec-12 22:41:31

joycep it just means that they've determined the exact type of bacteria hat caused my infection so they're adding in a more targeted antibiotic (augmentin) in addition to the broad spectrum ones (ofloxacin and metronidazole). I just hate taking antibiotics of any kind and have images of my body breeding superbugs confused.

Oooh bad kayla!!!! Once again, our old dog also ate an entire arm of the sofa in the lounge, while my dad was sitting in the next room. My mom was not impressed! Hope the damage isn't too bad buzzy.

EuroShagmore Sat 22-Dec-12 00:46:50

Buzz I have a Canon EOS400D (I think the current model is the 600 or 650 - mine is a few years old). But it's the lenses that make all the difference. I've invested in a nice macro and telephoto lens. The macro in particular takes amazing photos. I love taking pictures of flowers, insects, natural textures, etc. If you want to buy an SLR the big decision is Canon v Nikon, because this will influence the kit you can buy in future as it tends to be fitted for one or the other.

The evening was lovely (although we only made it halfway through Bridesmaids before chatting took over (we did a better job on the mulled wine though)).

critter sounds amazing. I rarely get glammed up these days. I do miss it.

As for charting, i think there are several different "normal" patterns. Most months, mine climbs and then levels out, dropping about a day before AF.

joycep LP seems to be mainly used to help the clinic time EC. It also has some medical value in making it easier for the clinic to control hormone levels as they are basically starting from zero rather than whatever your natural level is. I'm obviously influenced by my own downregging experience, but having researched it, I am seeing little value for the patient in using LP if they are at a decent clinic.

Madness our old retriever was a leg humper. She weighed 7 stone, so when she launched at you,you really needed to brace yourself!

When I had my lap I was supposed to have dissolvable stitches. They never really did. I can remember 18 months after the op, thinking I had some sort of weird stomach blackhead, and investigating it to find that it was a bit of black stitch that had worked its way to the surface. Bleugh.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Sat 22-Dec-12 07:04:29

Morning, this is a hangover lemon trying to drink enough to be hydrated when I get in a boat in an hour smile
Waves and feather shakes

rabbitonthemoon Sat 22-Dec-12 10:43:35

Oo shiny new thread. Marking place. It's bake off day - first up massive maple glazed ham. Back later. I'm enjoying the hangovers on here smile

As I'm on an imposed ban of my own ttc talk I won't mention the announcement of another grandchild that won't be ours. Hares side not mine. But I'm oddly fine with it. I think.

buzzybee123 Sat 22-Dec-12 14:29:43

lemon where are you going in a boat???

nelly hope you are having an amazing day smile

euro I have a canon 550D and use PSE9, I put my pics on FB, and mainly picasa but do use flickr too sometimes. I have been thinking about a some lenses, would like a wide angle and a macro, we shall see smile grin at your dog story.

madness sometimes the combo of the AB's can make you feel like crap, are they for a week or longer?? luckily good I am with a needle so can sort the sofa out, Barry wasn't phased as she is his little princess, I tell you this cat can get away with murder

rabbit it will be you soon making baby announcements, I thought the big bake off was on TV obviously it is you smile

Well Tesco was full of dilly dalliers but I have finished for now, I had lovely cranial osteopathy today too. After complaining to Barry about being ill during shag week I think I am now in the same boat sad as long as its not that norovirus. .

GinSoaked Sat 22-Dec-12 16:00:18

Happy almost Christmas ladies! No more work for a week, wohoo! And well done on the hangovers ladies <proud face>

rabbits I too am having a Xmas cook off. Rocky road is made for a party tonight and the stuffing and bread sauce are on their way. Gargh at the announcement. What a lovely Christmas surprise envy. You made me laugh a lot with your fur monster greeting lucky before he lost his balls story.

buzzy was it the handsome boy again today?! Naughty Kayla, but she looks just adorable in your pics. I think I'd forgive her too smile Hope you aren't feeling too poorly. Love the idea of our babies on the create wall.

mrsd I hope you are doing ok. I love that you can go and cut down a tree! You are being so brave. I have a deep fear that there is something wrong with my bits, as well as Dave's, but they've just not found it. I don't think I could carry on with all the treatment and would just give up, but that's having already given my life over to 2 ivf cycles. As Sar said, it's good they've discovered it now for you and that they can fix it before the cycle. Hope you are doing nice, distracting Christmassy things this weekend.

sar I hope you are currently enjoying the wedding! Get drunk and dance lots.

Speaking of weddings, is it nellie's today? Thinking of you nels!

lemons a boat?! Tell us more! <imagines some kinda luxury cruiser>

Welcome back to the piss wet uk doll!

critter I think you must be on your way home too? Hope you have a good trip. I'm v intrigued about US adoption now, as it sounds like a very young child could be procured... Although I don't know if they allow uk adoption.

nao welcome and hope you had a nice evening. I don't blame you for missing the work do! Sofa and comfort food sounds ace.

joy I'm really pleased to hear that the monitoring cycle didn't show anything problematic. Something I've wondered about is nk cells and men - can they do things to the sperm? Dave has lots of really bad allergies, meaning his immune system is over active and I wonder if it attacks and kills the sperms... Although that is a total guess! Maybe I should send him to agrc for a monitoring cycle wink. Sorry, I digress. That's v exciting that the ivf cycle will start soon. I have a really good feeling about it for you - bet you are the first ttc 10 months twins mum! I agree with what euro said about SP - that's what the consultant told me.

euro you pics are amazing! And some amazing places you've been to.

madness sorry about the infection. No wonder you feel rubbish! I was on several kinds of antibiotics after my first EC, including some nasty arse bullet ones! Hope you feel a bit better today.

Waves and luffs to everyone else.

I'm v impressed at all the crafts skills on the Fred. I struggle to sew on a button. My creative outlets are cooking and gardening, although I've not had time for much of either recently! I wish I could quilt though.

Tonight we have our 5th night out in a row. Not sure I can hack it! Then off to family tomorrow. Dave is being a right miserable bastard. He isn't at all Christmassy hates spending money, much to my frustration. I am trying to not let my pmt rage explode at him. Maybe he has alcohol poisoning. I think AF will appear soonish. I totally forgot about my cycle for a week or two, which was ace, but with the sore boobs and womble rumbles it's now impossible to ignore. Pllllleassee don't arrive on Xmas day AF! I have to cook Xmas dinner and be nice to my dad confused

mrsden Sat 22-Dec-12 16:24:35

I think I made going to cut down our Xmas tree sound more adventurous than the reality. There's a forest near where we live and they let you choose a tree and chop it down, bit like pick your own fruit. We chose a lovely specimen, not too big but bushy, Im feeling quite guilty about chopping her down though but she was grown for this purpose. Gah, I've got tree guilt. Maybe I should have stuck with an artificial one. She does look lovely though. And she smells divine.

buzzybee123 Sat 22-Dec-12 16:31:55

gin you little socialite out 5 nights on the trot grin, I'm pretty sure that nelly is getting married today, my image is of lemon on a small boat on rough seas with her wearing a matching hat and mac ensemble going off to some romantic island to sit in front of a lovely fire smile we don't want her going on the Oriana right now grin
Yes it was the good looking guy again, he has magical fingers but I don't tell Barry that grin

Kayla might look all cute and innocent in the pics but she is a right little diva fur monster when she wants to be, I have covered up the sofa for now, that is tomorrows job.

CritterPants Sat 22-Dec-12 17:33:52

Hi guys

Just popping in before flying home - wishing nelly all the wedding luck in the world today. Hope the ceremony is gorgeous and the reception goes with a swing, I am sure it will! I actually just finished putting together our wedding album on Blurb.com this week... only three and a half years late!

buzzy Kayla is absolutely gorgeous. Your poor sofa though! Sometimes I think MrC is half-cat - I was hoovering upstairs so the flat would be clean when we come back in ten days, and he left to go for a walk around the block because he doesn't like the sound of the vacuum hmm!

joy and gin I looked it up and it looks like Brits can only adopt from the US if they are resident there sad. But I am not 100% sure. I love the sound of all the partying gin, although I can sympathise with mrgin, my DH is being a bit grinch-like too, we have spent a ton of money this year and it's not even Christmas yet! Need to save something for the January sales... wink Yum at the rocky road.

madness ow ow ow at the stitches. Poor you. I hope you are being looked after! You've been an absolute champ in recovering from all this.

rabbit love the self-imposed ttc chat ban. I think I may need to implement one fat chance as I will otherwise be boring my family senseless. So sorry about the baby announcement, although it sounds as though you are managing to cope really well.

euro I have a DSLR camera too - I actually have had it six months and am still learning how to use it - it's a bit intimidating with all the different controls and things! I'm hoping to take some nice pictures this week, will have to stick them up on FB and ask you for tips! Your photos are gorgeous.

joy it sounds like SP is much more manageable than LP - I don't know much about the differences, but anything that spares you extra drugs has got to be good. I have a good feeling for you this new year.

sar hope you're ok - I think it's your sister's wedding today too? Anyway, hope it all goes off without too much stress and that everything is smoothed over and you enjoy the day.

mrsd they have Christmas tree farms here too - you are so funny to worry about the tree being cut down, that is very sweet! smile The smell of a Christmas tree can't be beaten, I so agree. Yum.

Well MrC is pacing about by the door so I had probably better turn off the computer and double check I haven't forgotten anything. My suitcase is enormous! I will try to log on 'on the other side' - waves and festive tail shakes meanwhile to art, naoko, doll, pout, and everyone else that I have managed to miss.

mrsden Sat 22-Dec-12 18:01:16

Have a wonderful trip critter.
Nelly, I hope today was fabulous. Wishing you all the best for married life.

Joy, I have such a good feeling about your ivf round. My dr said his preference is for sp. the scan I had on wed was supposed to be to determine what protocol I went on, I think it would depend on the number of follicles. I'm not entirely sure , I was about to ask him and then he discovered the tube problem. He did mention that there was quite a few follicles, is this a good sign? I'm stressing now that my ovaries are broken too.

I'm spotting today, looks like I'm getting af for Xmas.

Naokosan Sat 22-Dec-12 19:03:40

Hope the hangovers aren't too bad!

Gin - five nights out in a row = hardcore! Go you.

I'm also expecting AF right on Christmas day, possibly Christmas eve. The spotting has been making an appearance and I've also had a grumbly womble the past few days. Boo to AF, I'm not going to let her ruin Christmas. If she rears her ugly head we should say feck you and have another glass of fizz!

Mrsden - real Xmas trees are so much nicer than fake ones. Every year we say we're going to bin the fake one and get a real one but we've yet to do it. If it's grown for that purpose then it's fulfilling it's Xmas destiny. And there are so many nice things you can do to recycle it. I heard the other day that lots of zoo animals like to eat pine. If you have one near you, you can give it to a hungry elephant or something. Boo to spotting, I hate it! Even though it happens every month my heart still sinks when I see it.

Hello to everyone else. Hope the wedding ladies are enjoying themselves.

rabbitonthemoon Sat 22-Dec-12 20:57:25

I'm only mildly ashamed to say that I'm all comfy in my bed nest on the Saturday before Xmas. Bake off was fun and ultimately nauseating after too much sampling. But all food offerings are now made. I've had one nice glass of wine after being driver last night and that's me done thank you very much. In January I'm going tee total for a month out of choice rather than feeling I should. Ttc has def changed my relationship with wine by ruining it. My rabbit has turned the underneath of the tree into a latrine, which was mighty festive and giving of him hmm

Sorries to those with period imminent for Xmas. One blessing of it coming in my bday I guess. I'm not sure I've ever had a period on Christmas Day? I must have.

madness so sorry to hear about your infection. Antibiotics are not very person friendly I find but they will get rid of the nasty bugs. I made the error of presuming my stitches would dissolve (even though they were like dense white rope!) and do think that my scar would be way better now if I hadn't left them in for a month to fester before yanking them satisfyingly out myself with tweezers. I also think the cleaner stitched me up blindfolded but you cant win them all. Getting the nurses to keep checking is a very good plan.

critter fly safely and enjoy Scottish Christmas. My temps go up and then go up again 7 days later, teasing me with triphasicness quite often. They then plummet like a stone the actual day af comes.

mrsden lots of follies is good. I really do think this is a hurdle to jump over but no more than that. Still thinking of you.

buzzy bad Kayla for sofa damage! Revenge for snipping? Hope you're feeling less queasy.

lemon hope hungover boatyness wasn't too bad!

nao spotting is miserable. But I think it's fairly normal. Too many of my instadiff friends have it for me to think otherwise. It just gets to me because of the stupid implantation possibility.

joycep I am fascinated by your monitoring cycle and general ttc sleuthness. Just think, you are going into this ivf with no stone unturned - this has to be good. With high no cells, are there categories of highness?

Well it has been nice to see some of your faces on fb today after speaking for so long. I can't believe this thread will be 2 in march. I joined in June. So, 18 months on here so far. Not as long as it feels really!

TeuchterWahine Sun 23-Dec-12 00:11:06

buzzy I've missed the Kayla piccies! Are they on FB rather than this profile?
mrsd I hope you are feeling better. Horrible shock.
madness Yuck about the infection. If they ahve worked out what it is at least they can target it a better. I love those links. I've been avoiding getting into quilting. Call me a dinosaur but to me quilts should be all handmade, and I can't do that much sewing since injuring my wrist.
Welcome nao
critter Christmas in Scotland. A little bit jealous, missing the homeland. 28 degrees is wrong.
I'd love to put some faces to names too, think I missed how to do this.
I hope you all have lovely Christmases.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Sun 23-Dec-12 10:02:44

The boat I got into was a rowing boat, not as exciting as you though buzzy. Although it was misty, the heavens hadn't open yet... Since then. Well, no comment, really.

We had an old friend (who is not ready for children, hurrah, although her bf is) over for dinner last night. We polished off another bottle between the three of us, but I feel fine. I opted for buying lots of extra yarn, and salivated over a Cath Kidston quilting parcel, but that will happen only in 2013. As a result of wanting to start on the new wool, I finished the scarf I was knitting a lovely friend for Christmas, it will be late, but not after the end of winter (which is what SB was saying it would be).

Safe jouney critter. I hope you get home okay. It is not the nicest weather, I am afraid.

I really hope nelly had the bestest wedding EVER and much love and good wishes for your married life! And I hope your sister's wedding was okay, sar and that she behaved! I hope you let your hair down and a had a wonderful time. My sister got married years before me (even before I met SB) and I remember it being the best day, although being single stung a little... Things change smile

Spotting does nothing head-fucky with me rabbit, I take it as the announcement of AF around the corner. Although I have a friend who spotted all through the first weeks of her pg and now has a gorgeous little girl.

Well done for surviving the monitoring round joy and being all set to start, will it be early next year? I agree you have done everything to get to the bottom of the matter, and you so deserve that win.

Sorry madness, it never rains but it pours, doesn't it. Really hope the infection get under control and you'll start to feel better soon. Speaking of too much, pout how are you? Any news on houses?

Sorry for all the CRAP christmas presents in the form of ERTDs (mrsd*, rabbit, nao etc. Although it might still not actually come! Keeping stuff crossed. I agree about the wonderfulness of a real Christmas tree. At college people always made fun of my need to burrow my nose in the one in hall, but it is GOOD. We have a tiny one, covered in decorations, I got given angels for in the tree by two different people this year. Intriguing. But they're cute so they're in!

Waves and freshly baked mince pies (when I get off my arse) to you all, but particularly the diffed lurkers and everyone I failed to name check!

EuroShagmore Sun 23-Dec-12 10:22:51

buzzy sorry I didn't realise you already had some kit, I thought you were just starting out. Decent editing software is the next thing I need. I used to use piknik but that's gone now. I might pick up PE. The lenses are the expensive bit, but you can sometimes get bargains on ebay (it's one of those hobbies that people buy loads of kit for and then get bored).

Have a great trip Critter.

MrsNelly I hope you had a wonderful day.

sar I hope your sister's wedding went off without any more bridezilla moments.

mrsd I think you are helping the tree fulfil its Christmas destiny (Friends reference).

rabbit I often said after my lap that I am sure the surgeon let his 3 year old niece have a go at stitching me up. Whilst I am sure that a belly button is not the easiest area to stitch I am not convinced it was necessary to amke quite such a bloody mess of it.

I'm on CD5 now and the start of cycle hormone dip is fading so I am starting to feel more upbeat. Although I am rather irritated that I had to get up early this morning rather than have a lie in as Mr Euro had arranged for an electrician to come this morning (while he is in Ireland). He cancelled, but only after I was up and showered. Grrrr. So I've decided to clean the oven instead. hmm

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Sun 23-Dec-12 10:24:48

I say NO to cleaning the oven. Instead: make a decent cup of coffee/tea/mulled wine and return to bed! Doctor's orders!!

mrsden Sun 23-Dec-12 11:30:45

Noooooo not oven cleaning euro I second lemons idea.

Has the news sunk in yet teu?

I love spending time with non pregnant or not thinking about babies yet friends too lemons. They're few and far between now though.

Still spotting and feeling crampy, I feel a little sad because I should have been starting ivf injections when af arrived.

Are you left with a very noticeable scar after a lap then? Picking out your own stitches sounds grim.

I'm friends with gin , buzzy and rabbit on fb now. Who Am i missing now? It's lovely to put faces to names. Youre all as lovely in rl smile .

Happy Sunday to everyone.

mrsden Sun 23-Dec-12 11:31:12

Not that fb is rl but you know what I mean!

buzzybee123 Sun 23-Dec-12 12:18:59

well its lunchtime and I am not dressed, nor am I planning to today grin feeling all bunged up, I did get over dramatic yesterday and think I could have the norovirus that is going round then maybe c diff a I am dealing with a patient who has it along with ecoli hmm but really its just a stupid cold

mrsd don't feel sad just think of it as it is better to get everything sorted before you start IVF and then you know you have given it everything you can first time round to work smile

euro I used to use picasa to touch up my photos but I do like PE, we just have E9 and it has pretty much all you need on it. Barry did say that if he gets a job soon, he'll buy me a new lens for my birthday smile your macro photos were great.

teu how are you feeling smile yes my pics are up on FB, there are lots of cat photos, makes me a bit like a crazy cat lady, but I promise when my baby comes along I won't put up pics like I do of Kayla grin

lemon a boat trip is still exciting, ooh I have too many projects on the go hmm I am knitting myself a little balnket but the get distracted by other little projects, Kayla needs another radiator blanket so have ordered some wool for that and I have some slippers to knit too, scarves are great prezzies my favourite is one a friend knitted

I like mrsd am happy to be FB friends with anyone on here, I am a bit difficult to find for some reason so maybe if you pm your details that would be easier, so teu if you'd like to see a gazillion photos of my fur baby just let me know smile

Well I can't remember the last time I cleaned my oven blush but I will try and get my ironing done today. . .

EuroShagmore Sun 23-Dec-12 13:23:36

I am doing the oven (I'm committed now - I've smeared oven pride all over it so I am forced to clean it off later). I shamed myself into it by thinking that my very houseproud mother might look in it on Xmas Day. I can't remember the last time it was cleaned and Mr Euro cooks from scratch all the time so it has had loads of use. I have however decided to skip the food shopping and just do it all tomorrow when Mr Euro is back from visiting his rellies. <lives dangerously>

buzz I'd love to take a peek at your photos.

I'm FB friends with Gin now. Happy to add other regulars. I'll message mrsd, buzzy and rabbit in a sec so they can find me if they like as I guess they are up for it based on mrsd's post.

I had a day full of babies yesterday and I was fine. Saw my friend's (IVF win) 6 month old when I went round for a catch up and to drop off her presents. Went to see other friends in the evening and saw their newborn at bathtime (v cute) and then took the dad's older kid out for dinner with him (lovely boy). It was all nice. And we exchanged presents so I now have some interesting looking stuff under the tree!

Poutintrout Sun 23-Dec-12 17:23:46

Sorry for not properly namechecking, I will read over what I've missed after Christmas and reply properly. What stands out after skim reading this shiny new thread is that teu is owed massive congratulations. What a wonderful surprise and the best Xmas present ever.

Good luck for the wedding nelly I hope that you have a lovely day and amazing honeymoon.

Laughs at bunny poops under the tree. Boo to cleaning ovens, have you got your MIL coming over or something? grin FX for lemons - BTW and I quote "Speaking of too much, pout how are you?" That's bloody nice isn't it! hmm grin grin
I've missed all the FB excitement...

Well we are off visiting my sister and nephew tomorrow, after we've run the gauntlet of Tesco hoping to get some last minute bargains so I won't have time to come back on here before Christmas. I just wanted to wish everyone the best Christmas and wish us all babies next year. Lots of love to you all XXX

buzzybee123 Sun 23-Dec-12 18:09:06

pout Merry Christmas to you and good luck with Tesco, gets those elbows out grin

mrsden Sun 23-Dec-12 20:27:43

Merry Xmas pout! I don't envy you having to brave tesco.

Today was a good day, Xmas eve tomorrow. I'm feeling a little xmassy now.

There's a like if you're pregnant this Xmas thing doing the rounds on fb, I'm tempted to set up a like if you're a barren this Xmas. This time of year is particularly hard for those of us struggling so I'm thinking of us all. Bring out the booze I say.

EuroShagmore Sun 23-Dec-12 20:30:25

I've broken open the Quality Street as a reward for the oven cleaning, so I think Xmas has officially begun in the Euro household.

Merry Christmas pout!

buzzybee123 Sun 23-Dec-12 20:44:29

Barry has to hide most of my chocolate, are you serious mrsd about the FB thing, god save us honstly

mrsden Sun 23-Dec-12 20:49:51

I opened our one and only tin of quality streets on wed, im a little disappointed though, they're not as good as I remember.

ThatWayMadnessLies Sun 23-Dec-12 21:12:36

Evening all,

Won't manage to name check as have fallen behind.

Thanks to everyone for the positive messages. I am feeling much better and body has adapted to the medication so now eating much more normally thank heavens because we got a bloody big turkey for just three of us. Very grateful that the infection was found in the lap before it reached an acute stage. Trying to focus on the positives.

Wanted to say to mrsd that you might not have any stitches. The surgeons last time didn't use any. I just kept the bandages on longer. I have small scars that are definitely fading. They form a diamond shape - bikini line, left and right side, and belly button - I kind of like that they're symmetrical wink

Planning to venture to the shops tomorrow morning for some last minute gifts. Will end up buying Christmassy things on impulse that will only be used once blush. Haven't broken out the Christmas chocolates but did make a lovely hazelnut cake and there's lots left so offering it round grin.

Merry Christmas everyone!!!!!!

MuddyWellyNelly Mon 24-Dec-12 00:26:24

Hello. Allowed to introduce myself. I am MrsNelly grin. As of 48-ish hours ago.

We had just the best time ever. I'm so in love with my new hubby it's disgusting. Next thing you know I'll be putting up threads asking if that will make me pregnant wink. Anyway photos are starting to appear on Facebook. I quickly scan read and saw you were all becoming FB buddies, if anyone who wants to see PMs me their details,I think that's the easiest way to show pics?

Off to sleep, will catch up soon. I missed you all, but have also enjoyed the total break from worrying about TTC.

EuroShagmore Mon 24-Dec-12 08:33:32

I'm glad you are on the mend Madness.

Congratulations to Mrs Nelly! I hope you had a fantastic day.

akuabadoll Mon 24-Dec-12 08:40:56

Great to hear wedding was great nelly , thanks for popping in, have a great trip.
I've never had a FB account , if I ever get one the 10 + will be my only first 'friends' wink
critter I recently finished a Blurb.com project too. I would recommend it to anyone wanting that kind of service. I'm sure there are plenty of others but it was easy to use and lovely end product.
madness glad to hear things are more manageable now.
Loves to all, sorry for not name checking, just wanted to add a family Christmas quote from my location:
Small child looking at image "what's that?"
Adult in reply "that's an angel, it's like a fairy but a bit posher"
confused

sarlat Mon 24-Dec-12 10:18:16

Nao - sorry for smug preggos. Hope the mac and cheeses was yum.

Buzz - sorry Barry was poorly again but I am VERY glad to hear you ovulated. Good news and reassuring. Crikey, I hope you haven't got norovirus.

Critter - my post ov temps tend to travel up and down a little - as long as it doesn't dip below the cover line (maybe once is fine) then it should be ok. It must be exciting to observe a full cycle. Oh and have a fab trip.

Joy - goodness me. You have high NK cells. So this could have been the culpret for failed implantation? I am pleased to hear you are going on the SP. I agree with everyone else it is for convernience purposes which is why they put most people on LP but surely SP would suit most people in reality. It will be great to have a shorter IVF cycle and less drugs. I am feeling very excited for you.

Madness - geez, I am sorry you had to get more antibiotics. I hope you have a healthy 2013 too.

Euro - you photography is wonderful and very soothing to look at!

Gin - ooo I hope AF and PMT don't turn up and spoil the party. Get you "Mrs out 5 times in a row". I love it!

Deb - sorry for the spotting. You sound like you are doing ok and focusing on the festivities. I really admire that, And you know what - everything will be ok.

Rabbit - well done for doing the bake off. I love your attitude owards non ttc thoughts. Keep it up - you are doing brilliantly.

Lemon - thanks for the mince pies. The dinner party sounds like fun. I wish I could go to a dinner party with all of you ladies - how much fun would that be!

Euro - glad yoi are more upbeat just in time for Christmas. Glad you had a nice time with freind's babies.

Nelly - ooo honey, hope you had a wonderful day. Can't wait for photos.

Big christmassy hugs to Pout, Teu, Artemis and evreyone else.

Well the wedding day was absolutley fantastic. The ceremony was beautiful and moving and the reception and party were great fun. My siter looked like an angel (those on fb will be able to see soon) and I joined Gin with my dancing in short skirts to rock tunes. In fact my thighs are killing me from all the mad jumping up and down I was doing when the band came on. There were no bridezilla moments and the bride and groom were smiling and thanking me and big sis non stop. I think the stress last week was simply stress.

There was lots of talk about them becoming parents soon. Everything seemed so pure and hopeful for the future. That made me glad for them but sad for me.

I have made a decision that I am going to stop visiting our thread for a few weeks. It's not this thread itself, it's just that I am feeling over stimulated by all the ttc stuff and I haven't been able to switch off for 3 months now. Sometimes it gets a bit overwhelming doesn't it. And the only person who can try to change that is me. I have a combination of feelings which are making day to day life tireing. Worry of course that we all have, lots of fear about what is or isn't wrong with me (upcoming lap) worry over DH's age and lots of other little bits such as close family sprogging soon

Anyway, I am ok, just need a rest. I will update after my lap and I will only be away for a few weeks. I do want to become FB mates with you ladies. I might be able to sus it out via those I already know. I will pm those I'm not sure of.

Have lovely christmas and 2013 WILL BE OUT YEAR!

akuabadoll Mon 24-Dec-12 14:00:21

sar I'm so glad the wedding was lovely, do have a good break from the thread if that's what seems best for you. With love for Christmas and the new year.

EuroShagmore Mon 24-Dec-12 14:28:05

sar I'm glad the wedding was fab. I understand what you mean about the ttc stuff becoming a bit much sometimes. I'll happily hook up with you on FB if you would like to. I have gathered a couple of 10+ers already!

doll love that quote.

Joy I somehow missed your NK cell result. There are definitely some similarities between us - positives on the Greek tests (which were your positves? Mine were hidden C and ureaplasma) and high NK cells! I hope this means some answers for you.

mrsden Mon 24-Dec-12 14:43:32

Sar, Im pleased the wedding went well. I totally understand about taking some time out. I've been contemplating doing something similar, I feel like I have nothing positive to contribute at the moment and I don't want to drag everyone else down. Do update us on the lap though. I hope it gives some answers.

Congratulations mrsnelly!

The spotting is heavier so looks like I will get af in my stocking. Feeling very pmty too. Poor dh is hiding from me I think, I am very snappy. Hopefully I'll be ok by tomorrow and full of Xmas cheer.

buzzybee123 Mon 24-Dec-12 15:12:37

afternoon ladies I'm enjoying a lazy afternoon scoffing crap and watching 'little women'

sar I can understand that you need a break

mrsd sorry that AF is going to appear for xmas

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Tue 25-Dec-12 09:22:00

Congratulations mrsnelly! That sounds great!

Wonderful wedding tales from sar too. I totally understand the need to get some distance from TTC, but you'll be missed here!

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you lovely ladies. I really hope Santa brings some delayed in the post BFPs to the lovel 10+ers soon!!!

ArtemisTheHunter Tue 25-Dec-12 23:37:09

Just popping in at the end of a good, long and spectacularly idle day to wish you all a very merry Christmas, hope you have all had a wonderful time. Huge congratulations to mrsnelly, hope you have enjoyed your first married Christmas after what sounds like the perfect wedding day!

I've been meaning to post for days but waiting until I had time for a proper catch-up, but of course the longer you leave it the more there is to catch up with... I shall be back but in the meantime will just echo Lemon's wish for lots of new year BFPs on this thread. 2013 has a good vibe about it, the universe had better be listening!

Christmas loves to all xx

TeuchterWahine Wed 26-Dec-12 08:20:37

Congratulations mrsnelly! Sounds like you had a wonderful day.
sarlat Glad the wedding turned out ok. Look after yourself.
For what it's worth mrsd I think the 'not this month either' thing makes us extra snappy. Hope you are ok.
I really hope that 2013 is the magic number for this thread. Some of you have been trying so long and you all deserve your baby so much.
MrTeu got his 'medical professional confirmation' on Christmas Eve. He grinned sheepishly. Unfortunately I now can't face any of the treats I've made or bought, like mince pies, Christmas cake or Fox's biccie selection. He is terribly upset wink. Day and week at a time, still stunned.
Festive tail feather waves to all with hopeful sparkles 2013.

EuroShagmore Wed 26-Dec-12 09:04:36

Morning 10+ers. We made it through Xmas Day! Mine was a nice quiet adult one. Very enjoyable, but of course I would have loved a child there to mess things up and cry when I am trying to eat my dinner, etc.

I did very well in my present haul (save for one dodgy scarf that I cannot understand why anyone who has met me would have bought me as it is so far from my taste!). I got a watch and earrings from Mr Euro (the watch because he is bored of fixing my old one!).

All in all, it wasn't a bad day, although slightly twinged with sadness like most of my life now.

CritterPants Wed 26-Dec-12 11:21:02

Hello all, just a quick check in from parents' ipad... Hope everyone is having a lovely time with their other halves and or families. Congratulations to mrsnelly! Glad the day was perfect and cant wait to hear more about it after your honeymoon.
Fantastic news teu about the medical confirmation, i am so pleased for you, even if it does mean no mince pies! :-)
Lovely to see you art and euro, the watch sounds lovely. My top tip for oven cleaning, although i bet yours is gleaming by now, is a paste of baking soda and water left on overnight. It works a treat! (saddo emoticon)
Sar we will miss you but totally understand need to take a step back. Good luck with the op.
I am eating toast and watching two red squirrels stuffing their little faces from my parents' bird feeder in the front garden. They are incredibly cute. Absolutely lovely Christmas here, lots of nerdy board game playing, and muddy walks.
We had goose for the first time this year which was surpisingly delicious- i had never eaten it before. So nice to be back. I echo the 2013 sparkles from teu to all. Hope evryone is having a gorgeous time. Next year is our year!

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 11:38:40

morning ladies, hope you all had lovely days yesterday smile

euro we too had an adult xmas with the exception of FIL and his oscar winning performance of man flu and BIL being 'ill' and sleeping most of the day, most likely hungover from the night before. I have to say that the IL's are not really Christmasy like my parents used to be, I long to have a real Christmas like I remember back home.

speaking of back home teu I miss living in a shed, Barry thinks tin roofs are weird. Glad you have had a professional confirmation. Pity about the treats, I went off tea and coffee shock as I drink so much of it and had a thing for honey puffs grin I did think of you as I ate most of my bag of pineapple lumps last night, look after yourself

I can't believe we are nearly into a new year, I remember being young and thinking that 2000 was so far away and now its been and gone. . . well I'm off for a walk now, not as though it will make much difference to my weight with all the crap I have eaten,

Enjoy your Boxing Day smile

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 11:43:05

x posts with critter glad you're having a lovely time, and red squirrels, I've only ever seen them on the telly

GinSoaked Wed 26-Dec-12 12:43:55

Happy Chrimbo ladies!! Hope you all had lovely days.

I am currently being plagued by evil AF which showed up this morning. We need to head up to PILs but I feel sick every time I move sad Anyway, Xmas day was ok. A bit odd but nothing to do with ttc for once! I think the looming funeral didn't help, as my mum is still pretty sad. Neither did having to cook a full Xmas dinner in my dad's tiny, bachelor's kitchen. But it was nice to see the family, I got some ace pressies and I could at least drink copious amounts grin

I hope mrsnelly is in her fab honeymoon location but I just wanted to say CONRATS to you and mr nelly! I shall stalk you on FB...

teu I'm so pleased all is going well and it's finally sunk in with mr teu.

Here's to winning our baybees in 2013. Big luffs and Xmas snogs to you all. And thanks so much for all your support, words of wisdom, helping me feel less like a menkul lady, and making me laugh over the last year. You're a wonderful bunch.

joycep Wed 26-Dec-12 12:55:42

Hello one and all, I hope you have been having lovely breaks. Ours kicked off at the weekend and we went to see BiL and kids. It was lovely but they kept saying Xmas was so much nicer with kids which they said last year and really doesn't help Roy and my misery!
Then have been at my parents for Xmas but woke up with a temperature and very sore throat yesterday. So I stayed in bed and turkey was brought to me in bed with my presents. I got some lovely things but not sure about The book on infertility that SiL gave me - I just wanted to cry , and I have the damn thing already. Roy now has a very high temperature too so we are both in bed.

So all in all not a great Xmas. I haven't been ill for years so it is probably time. I have also been feeling very stressed about ivf and I can't get the thought out of my head that my eggs are just totally rubbish. My breasts have stopped hurting and it's only cd24 and I'm only 9dpo so I am feeling a bit fearful that I am going into menopause or something. Wow sorry , I'm not a barrel of laughs!

Anyway, Mrsnelly - huge congratulations. So pleased for you have a great time.

Sar - really pleased the wedding went well. Quite understand you needing to take some time away from here. Look after yourself. And let us know how your lap goes.

Euro - we do sound quite similar although I had hidden c and they detected some bacteria which they couldn't identify. I have yet to speak to a doc about my NK cells but I don't think they are that high after all. Have you started on antibiotics?

Teu - what a fab Xmas present , really thrilled for you . I hope you are taking it easy.

Art - I hope you had a peaceful Xmas. Do you feel properly pregnant yet? You must be about 8 weeks now aren't you?

Critter - glad you are having a great time!

Big hugs to everyone. Sorry for my non cheeryness earlier.

joycep Wed 26-Dec-12 13:01:11

Gin- I am sorry about AF. That's totally miserable poor you. It does pick it's time. Hope you can pop some pills to reduce the pain. X

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 13:11:46

Hello, am I too old to join? I'm 41 and trying for exactly one year to have my first child. I got pregnant within two months of trying in January but had a mmc at 11 week scan. Not a whiff of a BFP since. I am on my third cycle of Clomid (3DPO).

I left the over-40 TTC thread because, quite frankly, I was losing sympathy with the women of 45 who are 'desperately' trying to have their fifth child. The miscarriage rates over there are also frightful.

I have to say I am losing hope that this will ever happen for me. I am not here for sympathy, just somewhere to be heard by other women who also know the relentless slog of disappointment. Crumbs, I sound a right miserable old fart - I'm not really grin

EuroShagmore Wed 26-Dec-12 13:52:53

Viv you are very welcome here. This is generally a supportive thread. Sometimes upbeat, sometimes sad, but always supportive. Sorry to hear about your miscarriage. A few of us have had got pregnant quite soon after trying but MC'd only to then have no success for ages.

Joy sorry to hear that you are Roy are ill. We're holding off on the antibiotics for now. Create completely poo-poo'd the tests, so as neither of us was that keen to take all those antibs anyway, we are holding off for a while.

Sorry that AF got you Gin. She is a complete bitch with her timing.

Buzz every time I listen to Pulp's Disco 2000, I remember singing along to it at yooni, thinking that the year 2000 seemed ages off.

Critter that sounds lovely! My parents get grey squirrels in their garden and they are so entertaining. one year my parents set up a sort of obstacle course for them between two trees, with a container of nuts at the end. We had hours of fun with that.

I'm just back from visiting my gran. I found the visit quite upsetting last year. She had got much frailer and her dementia was really affecting her. She was much better physically and mentally this year, and on very good form. We've got a friend coming round later to feed leftovers too. And we might fit in some sff in the meantime. smile

Big Xmas luffs to all.

joycep Wed 26-Dec-12 14:13:54

Welcome Viv - you will be very welcome here. A lot of us here have been ttc our first child for over two years so we sure know about the relentless slog of disappointment.

Euro - interesting Create dismissed Greece even the ureaplasma test? It's not a great time to take with them when Xmas is a time for boozing. I am glad your gran was better this year. Old age is just horrible.

mrsden Wed 26-Dec-12 14:44:14

Welcome viv, like euro said this thread is always supportive. I think we're all trying for our first or have I got that wrong?

Sorry you're ill joy. It's no fun being sick over Xmas. I can't believe you got given an infertile book. I'd have wanted to whack her on the head with it. Did she not realise you might just have read everything there is to read on the subject?

Gin, boo to af. Af turned up on Xmas day for me. Of course I'm a complete numpty and hadn't realised I'd run out of towels. Cue me running round manically searching every hand bag I own. I managed to find 10 and I'm trying to eek them out until the shops open tomorrow. Of course, I would have a heavy one this time. Although I'm grateful it's not painful at least.

Cd 2 always makes me feel more positive so today is fine. We've had a god Xmas. If a higher BMi is the key to getting pregnant then I'm well on course. I have eaten so much, and most of it rubbish.

Anyone see the thread about Zara?

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 14:49:22

joy sorry you and Roy are not well, there are lots of things going round, and shock at your SIL giving you that book, I think its a bit weird and personal, sort of thing my MIL would do.

gin sorry about AF, and sorry about the upcoming funeral too.

viv You can never be too old to join smile I'm going to be 40 in March, sorry to hear about your miscarriage, I have had two and then nothing for 15 months now, although I now know its down to my crap eggs hmm

euro Glad your gran was better, its difficult seeing loved ones change. is she able to manage at home with support or is she in a home??

Well we went for a walk as Barry gets cabin fever and have decided to do our own little xmas and I plan to make pavlova or find a kiwi shop that sells them as that we what we would have at Xmas back home, MIL doesn't exactly do much, in fact its pretty much like a normal sunday roasthmm and I plan to do some crafty things too.

Well Kayla has turned her nose up at the tin of tuna santa gave her and the left over meat too, although she did lick the gravy off it hmm she can be a difficult thing to please,

mrsden Wed 26-Dec-12 14:52:26

Kayla is gorgeous buzzy. She has the most beautiful eyes. I love that she's found the warmest spot is on the radiator!

EuroShagmore Wed 26-Dec-12 15:34:17

mrsd I think we're all trying for our first biological child (I have in mind Aku having little Doll). We should probably do another round up soon, summarising where everyone is at, as we have a few newbies around the place. It works as a ttc introduction (and a good reminder for me, as I have the memory of a goldfish!).

I did see the Zara thread. It wouldn't surprise me. Sports wise, it would fit in well.

Buzz she's in sheltered accommodation (so her own small flat in a residence with a warden). She's lived there since her angina meant that a flat my parents own (first floor with stairs) got too much for her about 15 years ago. It's less than a mile from my parents' place so my dad can keep an eye on her (she doesn't get on with my mum). My dad's an only as well, so it is just him to look out for her (and me, but I am ashamed to say I don't do anything in terms of practical help). She's very independent and I was saying to Mr Euro on the way back that I hope something physical and mercifully quick gets her before the dementia gets too bad. She would not deal well with having to be cared for.

We used to give our pets a dish of Xmas leftovers to share - a tiny runt of the litter cat and a 7st retriever. The dog used to stand by drooling while the cat licked all the gravy off and ate her fill of the meat and then dive in to whatever the cat left. The kitty definitely ruled the roost! grin

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 15:55:28

Zara the royal or Zara the store??

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 16:08:13

Thank you so much for the welcome, ladies, I appreciate it. Buzzy, why does 40 sound so young to me?? hmm May I ask how you are so sure about your eggs being 'crap'? I take it you're going from AMH/FSH scores? I've never had the AMH test but my FSH has been 6.5 and 8.5 in the last four months (GP surgery and hospital consultant respectively). I am convinced it is my DP's 3% sperm morphology that is the problem here. We are having one round of IUI in the New Year.

We have just bought a CBFM but I am convinced it simply encourages rabbit-like sex (who the frig wants to be shagging from CD8??) My DP has 'performance anxiety' issues which makes ejaculation around ovulation monstrously difficult - even Viagra has begun to lose its potency (probably because for it to work you have to be turned on to begin with and having sex now around ovulation has become the least sexy or spontaneous thing ever) So...I think the CBFM is going to turn out to be a waste of seventy quid and I can't help thinking that the Sperm Meets Egg Plan is all anyone actually needs.

mrsden Wed 26-Dec-12 16:13:46

Zara the royal. I have no interest in her, it's just I saw the thread and my reaction was oh gawd not another up duffed royal. It must be another insta duff too if we assume she didn't start trying until after the Olympics.

Viv, that Fsh score sounds good to me. 3% is good too if it was the strict scale that was used, we were told 3 was normal. No one scores much more than that with the Kruger scale.

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 16:24:51

Mrsden, wow, I had no idea that score would be considered normal; my ineffectual consultant's lackey told me they considered 5% normal (I, naturally freaked and am now shovelling 200mg of Coenzyme Q10 into my DP every day - he's started smoking again sad) What do you think of a 16 million sperm count? Do you agree that >20 million is normal? Could this be why we are struggling?

So, Zara's pregnant, is she? I must say I frightened myself at my reaction when Peaches Geldof recently announced she was preggo AGAIN. I wanted to scoop her eyeballs out with a rusty spoon blush

mrsden Wed 26-Dec-12 16:37:21

Viv, the world health organisation says 15 mil or above is normal. It used to be 20 mil or above. 20 to 40 mil is considered average. Re. Morphology it depends what scale and how strict they are in grading in the lab. Our lab considers 3 or above normal. I think who says 4 or above. It could be a factor in your case, it can boil down to numbers, some would conceive no problem with these numbers but it might make it harder. My dh has very low numbers and only 1 % morphology.

I thought the same about the peachy one. It also made me feel irrationally angry when she said she thought shed had problems ttc.

joycep Wed 26-Dec-12 16:40:12

I haven't seen the Zara thread but I thought she looked pregnant at the sports personality of the year awards a few weeks ago and she certainly looked pregnant in the photos yesterday. grin at Viv's rusty spoon reaction at Peaches pregnancy and she then i saw she milked it by saying she thought she was infertile. pah!

Viv - i think above 15 mil is considered normal and above 2% morph is now considered normal. Your fsh is good. I have come across people who have taken a good year or more to get pregnant after a miscarriage. It's not comforting I know but I think bodies must just go in to shock or something and take time to recover. Out of interest did your periods go back to normal after your m/c?

Buzz - it's exactly the sort of thing my MiL would do as well. I'm surprised she didn't.

mrsd - sorry about AF over xmas. Do you have a date for your lap? how are you feeling about things?

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 17:00:35

Oh I have missed that thread no surprise if she is.

viv depends on who you ask, my FSH was first 1.8 in April and now 9.2 in October, the first specialist said my results of FSH 6.7, LH 3.1 and an E2 170 were good, the next place said with those results I'd need IVF. I've had a fertility MOT where they check your blood flow and how many follies you have, my AMH was 1.1, so either I have been very lucky to get pregnant twice or my eggs have deteriorated very quickly in a year.
As for sperm some places use the old measurements, the new ones since Dec 09 are
count:15 million
motility > 32 %
normal forms > 4 %

Taking the co enzyme won't hurt, Barry has been popping all sorts grin smoking won't help hmm

I use a CBFM I think its great, I fell first month using it, my ovulation changes so it helps to keep track, this month I ovulated 4 days later than last month hmm

Barry has 'performance issues' so we do DIY IUI well actually its just AI, I was quite surprised that you could actually do DIY IUI shockto be honest I think we both prefer it grin

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 17:21:25

x posts with you joy
I just think buying a book on such a sensitive subject is not something you give someone at xmas, what if there were people present who didn't know, although knowing my MIL I should imagine everyone has a idea hmm

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 18:06:51

Buzzy, Joy and Mrsden, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. I have charted my temps since I started TTC and was surprised how quickly my cycles regulated after the MMC/ERPC. It only took two months to ovulate on the correctday again. However, when I look back at my post-miscarriage charts, I can see that, until July, my erratic progesterone levels would not have been able to maintain a pregnancy, even if I had got pregnant. The miscarriage was the end of March. Therefore, I tend to console myself that I have actually only been in the running since July - which sounds better than March hmm

DP - one of the most selfless, caring and generous-hearted men I've ever met - started smoking again due to the commencement of a new and stressful job. I now struggle to contain my feelings of resentment that he could be so fucking selfish and cavalier about his fertility and our baby dreams. Bastard

Someone mentioned giving a brief synopsis of yourselves for the sake of the newbies. I'd like that, please.

41 yrs, ttc one year, mmc in March, 3rd Clomid cycle.

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 18:10:55

Buzzy, I bought a self-insemination kit from a company in India and we used it once when DP's penis was almost bleeding and he was rocking in a corner, dribbling and glassy-eyed. Do you believe the sperm survives the 30 minute wait in the cup? I was a bit hmm about the whole concept and didn't really believe it could be so easy. What are your thoughts, please?

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 18:37:10

viv shock at the bleeding, dribbling glassy eyed. I comfort eat instead of smoke/drink and have the arse and triple chin to prove it grin I also temp but haven't for the last few months which has been quite nice. I buy my bits of amazon, ha I do wonder if they actually know what its for grin 30 mins in the cup, is that how long I am supposed to leave it ??? I usually go in and do it straight away, for us its either this way or not at all at the moment, is your clomid NHS or private???

buzzy 39 and holding grin TTC 1 for 20 months 2 mcs @ 6 and 10 weeks. Diagnosed with high NK cells, 5 x SO one with IUI, possible crap eggs, awaiting IVF with either my own or donor eggs.

rabbitonthemoon Wed 26-Dec-12 18:41:27

Oo, I have missed all sorts. I'm about to start Boxing Day cook off with Hare but will try and get back on here to catch up.

viv welcome, loving the posts already. Is it wrong I've just chuckled about your mans bleeding penis?! confused how do you know about the prog - temps? I'm so sorry about the mc. This really is a good place to hang out for company and support.

mrsnelly woo hoo!

joycep ffs I cannot believe anyone would buy someone a book about infertility as a Christmas present. Being charitable I can maybe think they might buy it as a thing to hand over on a normal day...no actually I think even that would be totally poo. Is there a book you can buy of similar inappropriate nature in return <immature emoticon>?

I really am getting tea beckoning. Back in a bit. General Boxing Day loves all round as an amuse bouche.

Oh and just for viv. I can't bear my ttc story. On paper we are unexplained, like a Miss Marple itv effort. But actually, my fsh is borderline, DH (hare) has morphology that fluctuates between 3-7%, I just turned 36 and had a right hoo ha with a supposed fibroid this year that vanished and my womb is retroverted. Added up like a sum I'd say we are probably reproductively challenged. Ttc for 2 years minus many months of ops and procedures and post op recovery. The longer I go on at this the longer and more tedious the story gets!

EuroShagmore Wed 26-Dec-12 18:56:00

I should probably give a synopsis of my own as I suggested it, eh?

Euro: 36, Mr Euro: 37. TTC 27 cycles (two year anniversary on NYE, let's hope I'm drunk for it). We're officially unexplained although our own investigations have shown high NK cells and two "hidden" infections. We've tried 3 x superovulation (Letrozole) 2 x unmedicated IUI and half an IVF cycle (stopped because I couldn't hack the downregging drugs - they gave me depression and anxiety). I've also tried 6 months of steroids to try to deal with the NK cells. We're trying natural IVF at Create next cycle.

MuddyWellyNelly Wed 26-Dec-12 20:18:59

Hello everyone. I am supposed to be packing but am procrastinating by being on MN and drinking yet more wine .

Have spent the last few days with nephews and nieces and for some reason (were they all bribed?) they have all been doting on me. A very strange happy/sad mix but I'm so grateful to have them in my life as opposed to not!

I have FB'd some of you. Happy to befriend anyone else too. I am still in a post wedding euphoria - so many people have said "best wedding they have ever been to" type comments. One friend said if they did it again, they'd do it exactly like ours grin. I know people will always be kind but I do think most of them mean it! We had such a blast, and I think that is coming across in the photos I have seen so far.

Anyway I can't actually remember why I specifically wanted to post other than to say hello to Viv and hi to everyone else too! Should be ok for t'internet for the first few days of our honeymoon but I am going to try not to hang out on MN so much while we are away. Oh wait, I remembered why I was posting. Came back today to the review letter from our clinic, which just gave the overview of the case. Said that the embryos were a 4c and a 3c or something (and I quote..."ie of apparently good quality"). They have potentially recommended using EEVA next time which might tell us a bit more, but otherwise would just recommend another round the same. But the point was for Joy, to say that although my cycle didn't work, it didn't appear to be due to poor quality anything, despite my age and considerably lower AMH than yours. So none of this means you won't get there. Keep strong smile

OK that's enough procrastinating. If MrNelly sees me on here I'll be in trouble (Leave the Bastard?? wink)

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 20:21:25

Euro & Buzzy, what are NK cells and do I need to get me some? Buzzy what does 5 x SO mean, please? My Clomid is on the NHS. It is my belief they are chucking this drug at anyone and everyone as a means of shutting us up until we go for IVF. I was even ovulating, for frig's sake!
The instructions that came with my self-insemination kit said I had to wait 30 mins before transferring the sperm 'to give it time to liquify', which didn't make sense to me when you consider there's none of that bullshit during normal sex.

Rabbit, thanks for the welcome, I am a certified nut job, for sure, with a fucking horrific case of Tourette's, which I will try to temper for the sake of any sensitive types hmm I must say, Rabbit, that yours, Buzzy and Euro's ttc journeys make me feel dizzy, you poor brave sods. I think ladies like yourselves are warriors.
P.s. I have been told that a retroverted womb has no impact whatsoever on ttc. What I have read, however, is that the usual practice of raising your hips after sex is counterproductive for someone like you - instead, you should lie on your tummy with a cushion beneath your pelvis. Makes alot of sense to me, does that.

Rabbit, the temperatures during the luteal phase are indicative of levels of progesterone and if they are rising and plummeting erratically it is evidence that a pregnancy would be unlikely to continue. Progesterone is needed to keep an embryo viable until the placenta takes over.

During my first appointment with the consultant I questioned how a day 21 score of 18.5 could be interpreted as my having not ovulated when my charts clearly showed I had. He replied that I may well have ov'd but with that progesterone score I would not be able to sustain a pregnancy. Since being on Clomid I have released two eggs each time and scored 71.6 and 106.8 on day 21! Shame it resulted in fuck-all both times [each]

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 20:28:01

I do not know where '[each]' came from.

MrsNelly, we cross-posted. Thank you for the welcome. Married, eh? Jammy sod envy I would be entirely happy to share my fb page with any of you if it were not for the fact that my statuses over the last months have been sanctimonious/judgemental/opinionated/ scathing/beastly/fucking filthy/profane/angry/downright rude and insulting...and all because I want a baby. Desperately sad.

rabbitonthemoon Wed 26-Dec-12 21:32:10

nelly leave the bastard! grin Your wedding pics look beautiful and it is nice to 'see you in person'. Listen, have the bestest time on your honeymoon, give not a thought to ttc and enjoy. Can't wait to hear all about it.

sar I'm so glad you had a great time at the wedding. I think it is essential to take time out of thinking about procreating at times. You are far more than a womb and stepping aside from MN is essential sometimes. It was important to me in October, I need head clearance. Take care of you and report back on here post lap to let us know you are ok.

mrsden I'm so sorry your period came in Christmas Day. How shitty. And I've left myself in the shit I've got no tampon situation too many times. I resist buying them in the vain hope I won't need them. So last month I bought 6 boxes. Go me. But I'm glad Xmas was ok for you in the end.

euro glad your gran was better this year. Mine is frail and GRUMPY. Love her to bits. But I miss my old gran and it makes me sad that I'm forgetting her as she was.

buzzy how goes the pavlova? Yummmm.

Art how was sober Xmas!? Have you told many people yet?

critter yay at red squirrels. I grew up surrounded by them. But then the pox got them. Boo hoo sad

pout how was Christmas lovely?

doll how's the uk been?

teu glad to hear about the confirmation smile

lemon how you feeling?

I've had a good Christmas. Last year I was 3 days post lap and bombshell and beside myself and the year before I was scared after trying and it not working instantly. This year has felt a lot more normal. I think this signifies some kind of acceptance that I am not a very fertile person and that having children will be a miracle rather than a given. And it doesn't feel as stabby and heart wrenchy as it has done. I had a moment or two of how did this happen I should have babies unwrapping presents right now? But mostly it didn't occupy my head too much. Frankly, I am looking towards a future of adoption and dog buying. It will be amazing if I'm proved wrong.

At the risk of being maudlin, there are good things to come out of this whole sorry shit hand of cards. I am immensely grateful for the support that you lot have given me through the horrendous year I've had in terms of medical things. Having met a number of you in real life I know that these are friendships that will keep on going and that is lovely. I realised today that it is often me that my friends call when they are having issues with babies as there is no competition or fixed views on things. It's good to be an auntie. I'm in a good relationship and have no need at all to post on relationships! I think I always get very reflective at this bit of the year. But for anyone reading/lurking - it does get easier. If someone had told me I'd be calmer at 2 years ttc than 8 months I would have laughed in their face. But for me, I have developed an odd serendipity kind of calm. Sure there are shite days/weeks when things look bleak. But it is what is. Surgeries and treatments are hard. Getting my period isn't as hard anymore. What a ramble/essay. Sorry blush! I hope with all hope that there are bfps for all of us in 2013. And I don't even like odd numbers!

viviennewestwould Wed 26-Dec-12 21:56:18

Rabbit, what a fantastic message that was. It gave me great hope when I read that you are more at peace after two years than you were at eight months. That is really important for me to hear and I thank you.

buzzybee123 Wed 26-Dec-12 22:21:23

rabbit glad you had a lovely xmas smile I agree the longer it goes on the calmer I feel

viv I can't any NHS help, SO is super ovulation which is what you are on, its just to increase the amount of eggs for the sperm to hit hmm NK cells are supposedly the reason why I keep miscarrying, they attack the embryo hmm my AI equipment is just specimen jars and syringes, not an actual pack but will look into it, although when Barry has given a SA we had to get it there within 60 mins so I would imagine that some would die off, I'll have to look into it all smile

ArtemisTheHunter Wed 26-Dec-12 23:53:42

Hello all

Glad to hear most people have had a good Christmas, though i'm sorry about poorliness joycep and AF's unwelcome arrival gin and mrsden. Not fair. Gin MrA went to a work do just before xmas and replicated Dave's enthusiastic vomiting to the extent that I had to retreat to the spare room. At least i was forewarned and could hide my toothbrush grin

It's lovely to be connected to a few people on fb. I shall pm others to track you down, I've guessed that some mutual friends might be 10+ers but of course I don't know who is who. Would love to see wedding pics MrsNelly. As for MNing on honeymoon - surely you'll be busy doing other things?! grin

Viv welcome, you've come to a good place for loads of support and I don't recall anyone ever getting told off for swearing, or indeed for grossness, bitchiness or smut which is just as well grin. I'll be 40 next year and have got very sick of all and sundry assuming I am some swivel-eyed career obsessive who selfishly didn't want to have children any younger and is now selfishly demanding to have them at my geriatric age. My story: 2.5-ish years of ttc, mc at 6 weeks one year in, all tests proved 'normal' therefore we were unexplained. I had 5 months of clomid despite ovulating already which did bugger all (I agree with you, they prescribe it because it's cheap and gets you off their case for 6 months, but the new NICE guidelines no longer recommend it if you are ovulating. Have you had an hsg to check your tubes?). Finally did one round of IVF which miraculously and unexpectedly resulted in a BFP 6 weeks ago. Still haven't got my head around that, hence refusing to leave this thread and go wherever it is the pregnant people go. The smoking thing would drive me nuts. My DP only gave up after 18 months of ttc and an mc, and after me going on about it for the entirety of our relationship. A year down the line he is still reliant on nicotine patches. It is so hard to quit. I lost my dad to lung cancer so feel very very strongly about it. I don't have any advice to offer, just bucketloads of sympathy, but I suspect know that the nagging i did might have been counterproductive.

Sar I completely understand you needing to stay away from here for a bit. We are here if you need us. Do let us know how your lap goes though. Festive tinsel-clad hugs.

Doll hope you're not feeling the damp, or actually submerged...

Critter glad you're having a good trip. Red squirrels, lovely!

Buzzy and Teu I've been watching the Lord of the Rings films, a gift to the NZ tourist board, made me want to book a holiday smile

Joycep yes I'm exactly 8 weeks (one benefit of IVF is there is no confusion over dates). I still don't feel pregnant. Aside from a few minor bouts of nausea i have not felt sick at all, not been sick, not felt particularly tired, in fact the only real symptoms I have are sore boobs, frequent dizzy spells and continuous hunger. All of those things I could attribute to the progesterone supplements. Keep having to remind myself that I did see a heartbeat two weeks ago but I am very aware that I'm still in the danger zone, though past the point of my previous MC. It's a relief to have another scan booked for next week (the other benefit of IVF is they are keen on early scans).

Rabbit a dry Christmas has been surprisingly OK, though we haven't been to any parties and the people we've visited have all been car journeys so driving is a good excuse. New year will be more of a test as we'll be in a pub from about 7pm and Mr A will be getting steadily and tediously pissed which tends to bring out the uptight judgy pants in me. At least we'll avoid an expensive taxi home hmm. I've told nobody apart from my mum and the couple of close friends who knew about the IVF. We have agreed to wait until at least the 12 week scan, possibly longer. At the moment I feel like I'd prefer not to tell anyone until I have to. It feels like tempting fate confused. I'm also unsure whether I'll want people to know we had IVF. I doubt it's something I'll announce unless people are rude enough to ask.

sorry that was a very long essay to answer a very simple question! I struggled with the whole thing about telling people my ttc woes and this feels just like an extension of that really. I am a very private person, unless of course it comes to broadcasting intimate details of my personal life to the whole world via the internet grin

Rabbit I also liked your comments on the good things to come out of this shitfest. I also felt stronger after 2 years than I did 8 months in, to the point where over the past year i've been focusing on the positives of not having kids and coming to terms with a child free life, and went into IVF expecting it not to work. Now I have to shift my perspective again and it's a bit uncomfortable. Every time we see someone struggling with a particularly vile child, or see an advert for one of those godawful 'family' holiday resorts, Mr A raises an eyebrow at me in a 'what have we done?' kind of way and I have to admit I raise one back. That sounds awful doesn't it confused.

i'm sorry, I came on here intending to catch up and instead I have been selfishly going on about myself blush. I shall shut up now and just send big waves and tail feather shakes to everyone instead smile

Naokosan Thu 27-Dec-12 09:12:46

Hi everyone, hope Christmas went well? I've had a bit of a hectic time so only popped in to say hello.

Congrats nelly on the wedding, hope the honeymoon is fabulous.

Welcome Viv, I'm also a newbie but have already found many words of empathy and encouragement from this lovely thread.

Hello to everyone else smile

Just to mark my spot: me 33, DH 35, teetering on the edge of ttc cycle 14. No tests so far other than some inconclusive investigations into pre-menstrual spotting. Will be starting the ball rolling as soon as January hits.

No AF for me over Christmas do far, just red spotting which is getting heavier. If my usual 10 day LP is in place it means I didn't ov this month (if at all) until day 25. Is that too late for anything to be viable?

Here's to a 2013 thread bursting at the seams with well earned BFPs. I have everything I have two of crossed for us all.

Naokosan Thu 27-Dec-12 09:23:53

P.s I am in shock shock at the insensitivity of an infertility book gift! hmm

viviennewestwould Thu 27-Dec-12 10:21:27

Artemis & Naokosan (wails: I can't pronounce your name!) thank you for welcoming me. Artemis, I was told I didn't need the tube check as I was pregnant in January. Do you have an opinion on this, please? Congratulations on your IVF BFP...another warrior!

Ladies, please can you help me? I hate to bring first-world problems to the thread but I'm at 4DPO and this morning's temp has dropped below the coverline [wails louder]. Would you please put down your Times/DH/croissant/gin and take a look at my chart? Please? I'm refusing to leave the house to go to Tesco until someone reassures me I could still technically be preggo with these temps sad

www.fertilityfriend.com/home/viviennewestwould

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Thu 27-Dec-12 10:38:28

Welcome viv. Although I am definitely a veteran TTC I only ever temped for two months way back in spring 2011, so I can't give you any real advice on the chart. Except wait and see. It is not like you can do anything about it now wink so go to Tesco's and buy some reduced to clear great christmas treats.

Our Christmas was SHIT. On Christmas day I was all over the place emotionally, and on boxing day SB took over. The year 2012, frankly, sucked. The MC was brought back quite forcefully by seeing friends due on either side of what would have been - they have real diffed bellies and feel things shock and envy

Right, quick round up for the newbies:
lemon and SB, both 33, unexplained, TTC since summer 2010, now 11dpIUI for 5th IUI, 4th IUI+SO worked, BFP in August, MC in Sept, couple of months off AC after, just started again in Dec.

Waves and drooping tail feathers to you all. Yay for the fabulous wedding, though.

buzzybee123 Thu 27-Dec-12 14:56:00

afternoon ladies,

viv although I temp I usually just write it down in my ledger not on a chart, I did have one month where it did drop but usually it stayed up, it could have dropped for a number of reasons, I'm a bit lax with taking my temp,its supposed to be first thing and at a certain time, mine is as and when hmm so it could be that the timing was a bit off. Try not to worry and see what your temp is like is tomorrow. Like lemon said go get some nice treats and see what tomorrow brings.

lemon sorry about your Christmas, seeing friends in that situation is tough, I had to listen to MIL ask the 'aunt' about her grandsons, I was tempted to say 'do you really think Barry and I want to listen to some woman talk about her skanky non working daughter and her two sprogs by two different dad' hmm grin do your friends know about your miscarriage???

art I have only seen one of the LOR and was bored to tears, I refuse to watch it or the Hobbit. But home does look pretty in it grin

nao as long as you have a 10 day LP then anything is possible

rabbit I have yet to look up pavlova recipe, I'm sure my old faithful Edmonds cookbook has it in there.

I have just cleaned the flat and the fridge, hmm have other things I should be doing but just can't be arsed grin

EuroShagmore Thu 27-Dec-12 18:02:47

Viv looking back at your charts, you've had a dip at some point in the LP most months, so it doesn't look unusual for you. I don't think a temporary dip is a problem and there is something called an implantation dip which means a temp dip can be a good sign.

We've been to The Sales. I want a badge saying "I went to Stratford Westfield and survived". I didn't think the sales were great, tbh. I bought some khaki skinnies that were in the sale and a ski jacket type thing for shooting that wasn't. What I really wanted were jumpers for work and I didn't see anything suitable.

rabbitonthemoon Thu 27-Dec-12 20:55:07

lemon I'm sorry Christmas was cak. It must be really tough to think things are ok only for it all to resurface again. But my own experience of grief has been very like that. Like ever decreasing circles. I think you have done amazingly well to get to where you are in a short space of time. I can only imagine this happening for you, hopefully very soon.

buzzy pavlova update?

viv I am a charting degree holder. I think charting is great at confirming ovulation, predicting when your period is due and as a good record of cycle lengths, getting to know your body. Beyond that I think it has potential to become very stressful. Lets face it, the thermometers we use are hardly expensive. The way I see it, fluctuations and dips could be due to sleeping with your mouth open, a cold night, a restless night, taking it a bit earlier/later and so on. Try not to worry. The way I got over my futility friends addiction was to think that inevitably I'd find out I was pregnant with or without charting and that spending hours looking at galleries was making me more anxious. Hope you haven't been too bothered by it.

euro I did Internet sales shopping as had eyed up various things I wanted and watched like a hawk these past couple of days. I've done very well! I'm well kitted out for serious 2013 yoga. Sorry about the John Lewis (I think you said) gulp moment. I don't go in any children's shops now at all. Online all the way!

art I totally get the getting your head around having a baby thing. I know I'd be the same. I'm glad you're still around.

I'm stuffed. I have put on weight this Xmas! This is a good thing and will keep telling this to myself. Had a bad 20 minutes on infertility blogs of DOOM earlier but have given myself strict talking to. I've been doing fertility yoga today. It is off the scale woo.

Loves to all 10 plussers and fancy tail feather styling.

viviennewestwould Thu 27-Dec-12 22:18:28

Thank you, ladies for your input re temping. I agree it is entirely pointless charting if, like me, you know you are ovulating and have regular, predictable cycles. I do not know why I do it. Every month I tell myself quite sternly to chuck the fucking thermometer away - there is absolutely no knowledge to be gleaned from those luteal phase temps except to warn that AF is on its way. I shall throw the thermometer away promptly after I've checked my temp is back up tomorrow

Rabbit, congratulations on your charting degree; I have a PhD in spunk semen longevity [smug look]

Whilst others have been queueing for the Boxing Day sales I have been camping out in the doorway of my gym (sad bastard) since...ooh..Christmas Eve? I felt frigging marvellous after just an hour of weight training tonight and could literally feel the calories melting away. It was glorious replacing them almost immediately with a giant Toblerone during Emmerdale.

I have deliberately avoided the sales. I didn't fancy being elbowed in the tits by deranged Chinese students and Lebanese dictators' wives. However, I was treated to a calf-length duck down coat from Zara (DP - it almost made up for the bastard smoking again) and a goat skin tunic top reduced from £120 to £30 on t'internet! Hurrah for my chain-smoking, bleeding-willied, performance-wretched DP! grin

buzzybee123 Thu 27-Dec-12 22:39:54

viv temping does have its uses, its helped me work out my non ovulating months and saved me stressing in the 2ww, so don't through it out quite yet wink

rabbit no pavlova, I have enough crap to eat

I'm an online shopper, but can't think of anything I fancy right now, did buy some more wool nd a little gift for Barry.
I'm out with my Canadian friend tomorrow so i'm a wee bit excited grin as I haven't seen her since last xmas

akuabadoll Thu 27-Dec-12 22:48:16

hello loons, what the fuck is up with the rain situation? I have been here a week now and this is all I see past or future for my visit apart from the daily supply of wines...
viv oh well lots, chart, just put it out of your mind, post ov charting will not tell you much, it doesn't mean you are not pg. Also, 40+ thread has been an interesting one for lots of reasons (I'm 40) but your home is not necessarily the place with your age on it wink As to the 'trying for the last baybee' yes everyone here right now is trying for their first bio I think (thanks euro I have one - adopted). There have been a few folk here trying for a second but no one right now, i think. You just have to plough on, you can clearly do it and there it no reason why you this will not work for you as grim and shit as the process is. Welcome, welcome.

rabbit art lemon neo buzzy joy (do hope you feel better) teu critter buzzy nelly gin mrsden loves to you all and those that I've missed.

viv for the record .. grin me 40 him 47, one adopted child, 15 years married and living overseas in insane places. More than a decade TTC on and off, no assistance ('unexplained') until IVF last month, failed and nothing learnt (no problems revealed).

More waves and smiles to all.

viviennewestwould Thu 27-Dec-12 22:49:50

Aaaaargh!! AAAAaaaaaarrgh!! AAAAAAaaAARRRGH!! Raaaaaaa...! [gnashing of teeth and glassy-eyed]: A 44 year-old woman with three kids over on the Over-40 thread has got a BFP!! Aaaaaaaargh!!! (etc, etc..)

Why did reading her amazing news feel like a knife through my heart? I should be happy for her, right? I hate her, I hate her, I HATE HER!!! sad sad sad

akuabadoll Thu 27-Dec-12 22:54:00

viv I see i x-posted with you on the temping. Its hard to walk away from I know. <says totally temp-free soul> almost shag free too though grin

akuabadoll Thu 27-Dec-12 22:54:42

oh let me go and look ......

viviennewestwould Thu 27-Dec-12 22:56:11

[A-a-a-a-a-nd breathe!] Akua, thank you for the welcome and for sharing your history - another warrior by the sounds of it. I would very much like to escape right now to somewhere insane overseas. A bunker in Kabul would be preferable to the torturous cesspit of despair where I am currently living in my head sad

akuabadoll Thu 27-Dec-12 22:58:58

I went there, but you get to take your head with you sad
Stay here with us. x

mrsden Fri 28-Dec-12 14:57:12

viv I temped for a while. I did find it useful but I stopped because it was stressful and so easy to analyse every single temp which actually isn't useful at all. I started out on a charting thread, it was depressing for me because every one else got pregnant after a few months. It's hard to feel like you're in the same boat as someone trying for their third or fourth.

I agree with what rabbits said about things getting a little easier. I feel as far away as ever from having baby but I don't have the overwhelming sadness and rage I felt at 12 months in. I think it's because I've reached a sort of acceptance. I know this won't happen for us without intervention so I don't have the cycle of hope and despair every month. I know AF will arrive so it's not so gut wrenchingly awful. Christmas time is hard though, and this latest set back we've had has upset and frightened me. I know at some point this year I'm going to have to confront my fears over never having children. If I'm being totally honest with myself, I don't think we will get to be parents. There seems like way too many obstacles in the way. I think we have to give ivf a go though and then reevaluate. I don't think I can carry on being in ttc state because it is such a heavy place to be. I don't think a childless life will be awful but it will be a very different one to that I'd imagined and I have to find a way to cope with everything I'd thought ending up being different. I don't think that makes a lot of sense but I hope you understand what I mean.

This is my update, it makes depressing reading for me.

TTC 30 months. Me 31, DH 32. Started investigations after 11 months and no hint of a BFP. Discovered that DH has very low count and poor morphology. I was told I have pcos. This didn't surprise me because I knew from temping that I didn't ovulate every single month. We were told ICSI was our best hope but were advised to have genetics tests before to rule out any genetic reason for the low count. The tests took months to come back, but thankfully were all clear. We were supposed to start ivf this month but the scan at the clinic revealed I have fluid in my right tube. This DR said that the first gynae probably mistook the damaged tube for cysts because it looks like pockets of fluid. I now need to have a lap, and probably the removal of the tube before I can start ivf. Hoping lap will take place in January.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Fri 28-Dec-12 15:17:30

Hello lovely 10+ers!

What a balanced and impressive post, mrsd. I really hope your thoughts about not becoming parents will prove wrong. But being able to write that, seeing the other possible life and not going to pieces, I think is impressive. The facing up to "this might never happen" is on the lemon household's cards for the year too. I agree that endless TTC is too heavy to bear.

I shall put my fingers in my ears and sing LALALALA about the 44yr old's fourth child. And repeat, it is not her child I want and it has no bearing on how long it will take for ours to materialise.

Links to the wool, buzzy? I just got some of this: www.knitrowan.com/yarns/pure-wool-dk

Here's the badge euro! Very impressed with sale shapping. I shall take a leaf out of the tinternet shoppers book, buzzy and viv. We braved IKEA yesterday, and spent the morning assembling (and are not yet done). Oh well, another job for tomorrow. SB is out with a friend and I am cooking lamb stew, so the house smells lovely. After my mahoosive Christmas wobble, I am back as myself, I think. Feeling okay smile The butcher commented that I seem to have lost weight, so clearly not post-christmas pretend diffed. Although he's not seen much of me since running and rowing and working loads. So he's a little behind the times.

Do tell more about fertility yoga rabbit! It is on my try this year list. I completely fell of the yoga-wagon. At my hardcore version, they don't want you to come while diffed, so I dropped out in August, but I never went back, because I couldn't face explaining why I hadn't been for ages.

Stay here arte until you're completely comfortable with diffedness. And do give us updates. It gives us hope. Sneaky hi to the lurkers princess you're still there? And mellow?

Sorry about it-all-being-too-much comment, pout. But it seemed so unfair after the move last year, the rocky period in between, you just getting your craft emporium started and then bang the top of the waiting list, combined with a renewed bout of househunting. (And possibly more, but I forget). I just really hope the excitements of 2013 will be of a positive kind for you. A BFP, followed 8 months later by a baby.

Waves with the much more perky tail-feathers to you all, sorry for incomplete name checking, thinking of you!

Naokosan Fri 28-Dec-12 15:23:18

Viv, my name would be pronounced nay-oko-san. I found it really difficult choosing a screen name, EVERYTHING I went for was already taken. In the end I went for a character from a book I like (Naoko) with san being the Japanese word for miss (because, of course, just plain old Naoko was already taken.  Probably from a smug preggo haha).  

Sorry about the BFP announcement on the 40+ thread.  I don't really know anything about temping, i don't do it because I'm sure I'd get confused. And I never sleep right through the night so not sure how accurate my result would be.

Doll - the rain here has been incessant! What I'd do for a cold, crisp, sunny, frosty day.

Rabbit - do you online fertiliy yoga? Or classes? I do normal yoga but know there are poses that are good for fertility but would like to do a full class.

Lemon - really sorry you had a crap Xmas.

Buzzy - well done on the cleaning spree and thanks for your reply.  A 10 day LP, yes, but 7 days of that had some kind of spotting.  I miss the days (pre-pill) when my period started with a bang, lasted 5 days and then disappeared.  Now it's more like spotting for 7 days, light bleed for 2 then some more spotting to round things off.  

Currently waiting for yet more family visitors to arrive.  I'm looking forward to new year when it's just me and Mr N again.  Bah humbug.

buzzybee123 Fri 28-Dec-12 15:45:42

mrsd big hugs what an amazing post, don't give up. Can I ask silly question, if they remove a tube,can they still give you the drugs to get the mature eggs from the ovary?? or do they remove them as immature eggs ????

gin IVM is an additional £1000 on top of your cycle according to Creates price list

viv Any news on your temps ??

lemon I love rowan wools, what re you knitting, I usually buy from ebay as they are bit cheaper than the shops if you know what you are looking for, I've got some lovely 'homespun' looking wool to knit Kayla a radiator blanket that fits in with the decor grin

nao I know what you mean about 'normal' cycles mine have not been the same since my last miscarriage a year ago, mine are spotting for 5-7 days so kind of blled for 36-48 hours then spotting again hmm the spotting usually gives me hope at the beginning but I now realise that this what mt cycles are like. Hope the visitors don't stay too long

ArtemisTheHunter Fri 28-Dec-12 18:19:08

Hi all

Nelly it's good news that the review letter didn't come up with anything problematic. Onwards and upwards, after the fab honeymoon of course smile

Nao I have relatives in Japan and I think the -san suffix is used for both men and women to show respect, so your lovely name probably means something like 'Honourable Naoko' smile. AFAIK it's the length of your LP that matters rather than the date of ov but other people may have better information. I typically ovulated on day 18-20 of a 30-ish day cycle and was concerned about what I thought was a short LP but none of the medics were remotely interested in my views on that! I am also a spotter, for 3-5 days before AF and several after, but again nobody thought that was relevant either hmm. I hope the rellies don't outstay their welcome. We've had nobody to visit at all over Christmas because we are miserable feckers and we didn't invite anyone grin

Viv I charted for about 6 months. It can be really helpful but equally it can be a complete headfuck. I think they key is to concentrate on the broad pattern your temps create rather than obsessing over individual temperatures, because as others have said the individual temps can be thrown out of whack by any number of things. However if you find a way of doing that I am sure we'd all like to know how you manage it. I spent hours poring over my charts and obsessing over individual figures and in the end decided it was too much, however it was helpful at the outset to establish roughly when ovulation was happening, especially as it was later than i had thought. And step away from the 40+ thread. I've got no sympathy for anyone on their 4th child irrespective of age.

Mrsden when they get your tube sorted your chances with IVF will be exactly the same as anyone else's. I do get the feeling like you will never be a parent though. But miracles do happen. Hang in there brew.

Good work on sale shopping Rabbit! You'll be a very stylish yoga bunny through 2013. I was eyeing up a few things online but by the time I made a decision my size had already gone. Hopeless. I am too much of a ditherer to be any good with sales! Well done on the weight gain too smile

Buzz AFAIK the tubes don't affect egg maturation or egg collection at all. My consultant said that having IVF would simply take the tubes out of the equation. I would think the process without a tube would be exactly the same as it is with them, because they are simply bypassed. You must be smitten to knit a bespoke blanket for Kayla, though i can see why, she is gorgeous smile. I've got a beautiful cushion a friend made for me, well it was lovely until the cat decided it would be good to sleep on and pull holes in with her evil little claws. Thankfully the friend is a cat lover herself so thinks it was sacrificed in a good cause but I was a bit blush when she came round and saw it.

Lemon I'm sorry you had such a shitty Christmas. I think ours was good mainly because we avoided small children and preggos (still can't think of myself as one of Them) and anybody who might talk about fertility, and basically holed up on our own with a stack of food and films. Aaaaaaah at the yarn porn, I love Rowan wools. My yarn stash is embarrassingly big - I am really bad for buying lovely yarn in sales (the one bit of sale shopping I am good at) then not having a clue what to make with it. I have actually made a list of everything I've got with weights and quantities and am now scouring Ravelry for appropriate patterns to actually use it. I'm not letting myself buy any more until the stash has gone down a bit. That is harder than it sounds smile. I'm considering getting a Rowan subscription with some of my xmas money as a way of feeding my addiction in the meantime. It's a good job Mr A is not annoyed by the clack of needles or our relationship would have been short-lived grin

Doll this weather is indeed shitty. Have you had a good break despite it? We were planning to go walking lots over the holidays but it's just been too grim and I'm getting cabin fever. I've been sitting on the couch of an elderly relative today and put away another massive roast dinner. If I have any more I may actually turn into a roast potato. I am going to defy what I think is probably over-cautious medical advice and go to the gym tomorrow otherwise the size of my arse will entirely eclipse the size of any baby bump by the time it arrives hmm.

Loves to all other 10+ers absent or lurking, hope everyone is well and that those who have had shitty or poorly festering seasons are feeling better. I love Viv's idea of us all as warriors. I've now got a mental image of a Boudiccan army replete with war paint, Rabbit's fancy tail feather styling and sparkly knob accessories, wielding sharpened pee sticks and thermometers at our foes grin

viviennewestwould Fri 28-Dec-12 21:26:51

Oh, how I wish I could step away from the Over-40 thread. I am here to ask for your help, please, with the following post, which I have cut and pasted from over there and which has been written just today by the same 44 year-old who has just got her BFP. I feel ugly and wrong for pasting her post here but I am seriously on the verge of screaming:

'Thanks ladies for all your good wishes. I didnt do anythin different to get the bfp, so just lucky I guess. Physically, I feel fine just tender boobs and some cramping. However, DH is devastated by the news, he's adamant he doesnt want another baby. He cried. We've been together 11 years & I've never heard him cry. It was awful. We can't even discuss it properly as MIL is here, so we both sat in the car & sobbed. Needless to say, I'm pretty distraught, he was depressed all through my pregnancy with DD, because of it, &.says he can feel it starting again, & I don't want to put him through, or go through that myself again, as it was pretty miserable. Sorry about the me, me, me rant, I'm on my phone again as it's the only chance I get to post.'

I feel so irrationally furious at this woman for having duped her poor husband (who is in his fucking fifties) into this baby - her fourth. I can not believe that she (and others on that thread) is willing to put her 'need' to 'complete her family' before her marriage and the sanity of her husband. However, I am acutely aware that this is absolutely none of my fucking business and I have no right to judge who does and does not deserve the joy of a BFP. But fuck me* I'm angry. And resentful. I'm jealous, obviously, but mostly I am appalled that any of us (ie. me), are capable of losing our minds and our values in this manner on the course of this journey. How ^dare she put her husband through this? She's not the only one, either. The 46 year-old with five kids already is secretly taking Clomid she's purchased over the internet without her DH's knowledge.

Who am I, though, to suggest that what these women are doing is wrong? Am I going completely mental? Am I losing my grip on what is 'acceptable' or 'not acceptable' on these threads? Am I even entitled to an opinion? Why can't I stay off that thread? Why do I feel these women are so undeserving of yet another baby? I don't have the monopoly on yearning. I need to get a serious grip of myself and I am hoping that you can help me see more clearly as I am typing this through snot and tears. I feel fucking wretched. Please help. I am a hateful witch who ought to be gassed sad

viviennewestwould Fri 28-Dec-12 21:28:54

Lemondrizzle, thank you, thank you for this: it is not her child I want and it has no bearing on how long it will take for ours to materialise.

How do I start to believe it?

ArtemisTheHunter Fri 28-Dec-12 22:34:55

Oh Viv. I'm sorry you're feeling so shitty, and that this woman's post has knocked you for six. First things first: you are not a hateful witch! We have all had feelings we're ashamed of amidst the misery that is long term ttc and have all felt the pain of seeing someone else get the BFP that we so desperately want, particularly when we're having to work so hard at something we spend our lives being told should be natural. That is normal. Feeling jealous and resentful is part of the deal. You have my permission on that one - don't feel bad about feeling bad, that only makes the shitfest worst.

So for me it's about how you handle it so you don't make it harder on yourself. On the envy thing, I think Lemon is spot on - you don't want their baby, you want yours and there is not a finite number of babies in the world so whether or not someone else gets a BFP is immaterial. My two-pennorth on this matter is familiar on this thread, a piece of wisdom I was given by an older, wiser relative which says that if you are going to envy someone, you can't just envy a part of what they've got, you have to want the whole package. So you can't just envy this woman her BFP, you also have to want the deceitful way in which she got there and the shit storm she has created for herself in undermining the trust and quite possibly wrecking her marriage. It doesn't sound quite so appealing when you think of it that way.

FWIW I do think that what those women are doing is wrong - deceiving the person you are supposed to love in something as major as having a child is selfish on so many levels it's crazy. Whether I have a right to voice an opinion about it, though, is another matter. I don't personally want more than one child (which is just as well) but I don't know what it's like to feel that kind of longing when you already have children. She must feel pretty desperate to have gone to that kind of extreme and in a way I feel sorry for her that she couldn't work it out with her husband some other way. The fact you recognise it as wrong suggests you very much still have a grip on the whole thing!

I think we have all found the need to separate ourselves out from the all-consuming beast that is ttc and remind ourselves of all the things that are great in our lives despite, and often because of, the fact we don't have biological children. I hope that doesn't sound patronising - it's not meant to be, but the good stuff is easy to forget when you get bogged down in the yearning. For example, one thing this thread seems to have in common is really strong relationships with our other halves and you sound like no exception. A man willing to make his penis bleed for you has to be one in a million grin. Something else that people on here have found helpful is life coaching. I haven't done it myself but Buzzy has and I think a few other previous posters so they may have a bit more info. It does seem to be really good at helping to deal with the negative emotions and find your perspective.

I don't know if any of that has been any use but didn't want your post to go unanswered. Sending you brew or wine and hugs and hope you manage to untangle some of your feelings - and again, don't feel bad about it - this situation is just so hard.

ThatWayMadnessLies Fri 28-Dec-12 23:20:28

Posting from my phone so won't be saying too much but has been a while and i wanted to check in.

viv first of all hello. i don't think we've met yet. secondly please take a deep breath. we have all felt horribly jealous and guilty for it. as long as you recognise that the jealousy is often irrational while also being completely understandable you will be able to deal with it. as for the thread, can you not his threads on here? I wish i could hide bloody maternity tv shows from the telly that i keep watching despite knowing that i need to walk away from as it's rather pathetic and does nothing to make me feel better.

Here's my story so far - also slightly depressing reading.
Me 34, MrM 37. Ttc 2.5 years. tests started after one year. suspected endometriosis. lap scheduled but acute fallopian abscess developed before getting to top of list and emergency surgery last xmas. many appointments and tests prior to second lap 2 weeks ago today. stage IV endo diagnosed and left tube removed. on decapeptyl to shut down ovaries until ivf hopefully in the next 3-4 months. sorry that was long!!

Will wave to everyone for now and write properly when not on teeny tiny screen that is very frustrating to type on.... happy weekends to all grin

EuroShagmore Sat 29-Dec-12 10:05:15

rabbit I feel the same - I am still sad but less anxious and stressed by ttc than I was at 9 months or a year into it. I am very disappointed that we won't get there without assistance, but I am more accepting of that than when I embarked upon my disastrous IVF cycle in the summer.

nao have you tried acu for the spotting? (BTW, my dive guide in the Maldives earlier this month was a Naoko. She was a bit scary.)

viv I think deceiving your partner into a child at any age is wrong. I can understand why you are angry. But lemon's words are wise ones.

I am a charter too, but I am a bit lax these days. I tend to take one or two temps at the start of a cycle, just so FF knows a new cycle has started, and then skip temping until I am close to ov, take a few days of temps to confirm ov, and then stop until AF is almost due as I find it helpful to get a day's warning that the witch is on its way by the temp drop that precedes it.

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 11:17:10

morning ladies smile

I'm feeling a little fragile today but had a great time last night, bit of a nightmare getting into London due to all the planned engineering works but worth it in the end. I had a great chat with my friend who told me her little nephew was a DE, and he is gorgeous. So I am in two minds about spending £4500 on using my own eggs first as that would pay for DE overseas hmm

vivIn my own personal opinion and that is what this is..... what a sad cow that woman is, she might have kids but the rest of her life sounds a nightmare. What is there to envy??, she needs 4 kids to feel her 'family is complete' confused she sounds like a very unhappy person within herself and no amount of kids will ever change that. As for him being duped confused isn't he just as responsible for contraception as she is????? Whats the point in having 4 kids if they don't have a dad around, she sounds childish insecure and selfish.

You need to stop reading the thread and think about yourself, make plans and not just TTC ones, in a few days its going to be a new year smile, what would like to achieve besides a baby in it. You need to concentrate on yourself and surround yourself with what makes you feel good about yourself, not that toxic thread, you need to remind yourself that sometime in the near future you're going to get your own BFP and you and your DH are going to be thrilled about it as your baby will be planned and wanted and totally loved. I don't read other TTC threads sometimes lurk on the Pred thread and the SO one as I used to be on it, I usually look at the AIBU that can be hilarious at times grin

art you have lots of baby things to start knitting, booties hats blankets etc, i love ravelry grin I already knitted baby things so might as well knit for the cat now grin ooh hot water bottle covers are always good gifts and are quick to knit. Kayla uses my lovely and expensive NZ sheepskin cushion as a substitute mother hmm

euro love the squirrel pics

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 11:22:15

viv I do have life coaching and I swear by it, I went from being totally depressed to a total optimist, it does help me put things in perspective. There have been a couple of other changes in my life, changing my role at work, getting my spoilt little kitty grin I recommend that one!!! I still have the odd low point but I haven't cried about my TTC situation for months now nor do I stress about it as much either, I know somehow I'll get there in the end, just not how I planned grin

GinSoaked Sat 29-Dec-12 12:56:18

Hello ladies, I'm finally back in the land of the living wifi and have survived Xmas, the evil AF and the funeral, managing not to sob extra loud when the great grandson (courtesy of my younger cousin) was mentioned by the vicar!

Sounds like Christmas has been a bit of a mixed bag.

joy I hope you and Roy are both feeling better now. How rubbish to be so poorly on the C day. I can't believe SIL's gift. She was probably trying to be kind, but I'd have thrown the bloody book at her! It's the last thing you want to be reminded of.

lemons yours sounded a bit rough too. Big hugs and hope you are feeling better now. I def look Xmas diffed. I also put on weight after the first ivf cycle, so not sure it's all mincepies and gin related. A new healthy eating regime will be embraced in 2013...

artemis can't believe you are 8 weeks already lady! Wow, amazing. I'm so excited on your behalf. And pllllease don't go anywhere, we'd miss you. You are also our reminder that ivf can work! I'm also pleased to hear that I'm not the only one who lives with a drunken man child smile

buzzy all your crafting sounds amazeballs. I wish I could knit etc but it's just not my thing. I think I glimpsed a radiator blanket on FB - you're a talented lady! Oh and on the more boring matter of AC, when I was having a good dig about on create's website, I noticed that they give you 30% off ivf if your other half is willing to donate sperm... I don't know what the age limits etc are, or if it's something mr buzz would be happy doing, but poss a way to get it a bit cheaper?

euro I did some sale shopping on-line, I'm ashamed to say on Xmas eve! Must stop buying clothes... Need to save my ££s for AC, but having a non-mummy wardrobe cheers me up!

mrsd hope you are doing ok.

Welcome viv. Stay here, away from the other Freds. I can't bear to read the bus ones. Too depressing. Any baybee wins on here are very hard won and very much wanted by both parents.

Hope mrsnellie is enjoying her honeymoon and far too busy doing it to read MN!

I hope the lovely sar is ok. I totally understand the need for a break, but miss your lovely, thoughtful posts.

Waves to rabbit, teu, nao, doll and everyone else.

Now it's after Xmas, I'm keen to crack in with our next AC cycles. You ladies are all so patient! I'd like to do the FET next cycle, if we're allowed, swiftly followed my some DS iui. Then I'm booking a big fuck off holiday and will start to look properly at adoption. I think I'm being spurred on by the fact that 2 of my friends weren't drinking at a Xmas party. They both got married this year, so it's expected, but will ruin the group of friends we see the most sad I'll just have to start going drinking with the boys to avoid the pregnant wives!

Over xmas, we had a night at the PILs and i had a really good chat with mil. Apparently Dave took them 2 years to conceive and so she has a really good idea of how we feel. It sounds like she may have had poly cystic ovaries or something similar and had to chart. I didn't know they charted in the 70s! Anyway, she was great and I luffs her even more now (and they offered to lend us ££s again for treatment, hurrah).

Will post my bloody depressing stats below..

GinSoaked Sat 29-Dec-12 13:02:17

Me 34, Dave 33. TTC 2.5 years. Crap sperms - v. low count, poor morphology and motility. 2 rounds of mild ivf with icsi at Create in April and Nov, bfns. The last cycle we managed to get a spare embryo to blastocyst, which is now frozen. Planning to do a FET in the next few months and when if that fails, iui with donor sperm. If that doesn't work, adoption or baby stealing!

GinSoaked Sat 29-Dec-12 13:03:30

And waves to critter! Hope you are having a lovely time en famille.

Right, I'll bugger off now and stop being a Fred hog grin

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 15:44:10

gin liking the baby stealing idea grin glad you're MIL is being supportive in all ways, ha we will need to hit up the PILs if we are to try with our own bits then move on to DE, MIL told me she had to inject blood thinner into her stomach when pregnant, I too was a bit shock as I didn't know they did that in the 70/80s. Thanks for the heads up on the 30% off thing, I'm not sure how he would feel, but he didn't really object when I said I would happily donate my eggs for cheaper IVF before I realised I was too old so something to think about. My friend said that her SIL and another woman shared the DE so they paid 50% of the IVF costs, that was in Canada though.

Just been to Sainsbury, its so much more civilised than Tesco grin

joycep Sat 29-Dec-12 15:48:38

Hi ladies.

Viv - argh, sorry about that person on the other thread. We have all been there with jealousy but please don't let her story get to you. Don't go on that thread no more i say.

Gin - what a lovely MiL you have and so nice for you tos peak to her and how great she will lend you more cash. Fab! I think you should definitely go ahead with a FET as soon as you're ready. Exciting stuff.

Buzz - what wise words to Viv. You should be this thread's life coach! Everything you say makes so much sense.

Lemon - when do you find out whether this IUI cycle worked??

Mrsd - your post was very eloquent and i feel very much the same way. I'm trying to see ivf as something we have to do. I don't want to place any hope on it whatsoever...which is hard of course.

Art - time must be moving slowly for you but pleased you have another scan next week which will make it so much more real. When are you passed over to the nhs or is this nhs?

Well touch wood i think i have got rid of this lurgy. CD1 yesterday so I went in for my blood tests. Call last night said i had to come back in for more bloods today as things weren't right. Typical, the month I want to start ivf. Cue me panicking that my fsh was over 10 - they don't do ivf until under 10. Went back in at 8.30am this morning for more bloods. Went up for scan and they have discovered a cyst. I've never had a cyst before so that's typical too. It was my progesterone levels which were too high apparently not my fsh. But high progesterone can affect fsh. Why do i have high progesterone after period has come and on a 10 day LP...something going on there. Might explain why my boobs started hurting the day before af came.
Anyway was told to wait around to be told my next instructions. Wasn't bargaining on waiting 6 hours. Anyway, have been told I've got to go in for a hysteroscopy and cyst drainage tomorrow morning under deep sedation.
I don't even know if i'm starting ivf this month - i will find out tomorrow but i guess they don't want to flare me up when i have a cyst. I hope today's bloods showed my progesterone has gone down, i forgot to ask.

I walked out of the clinic crying. I think i'm just getting so worried and anxious about every blood test result - i haven't even bloody started yet!

joycep Sat 29-Dec-12 16:06:00

Gin - Me 34, Dave 33. TTC 2.5 years. Crap sperms - v. low count, poor morphology and motility. 2 rounds of mild ivf with icsi at Create in April and Nov, bfns. The last cycle we managed to get a spare embryo to blastocyst, which is now frozen. Planning to do a FET in the next few months and when if that fails, iui with donor sperm. If that doesn't work, adoption or baby stealing!

madness - Me 34, MrM 37. Ttc 2.5 years. tests started after one year. suspected endometriosis. lap scheduled but acute fallopian abscess developed before getting to top of list and emergency surgery last xmas. many appointments and tests prior to second lap 2 weeks ago today. stage IV endo diagnosed and left tube removed. on decapeptyl to shut down ovaries until ivf hopefully in the next 3-4 months.

mrsden - TTC 30 months. Me 31, DH 32. Started investigations after 11 months and no hint of a BFP. Discovered that DH has very low count and poor morphology. I was told I have pcos. This didn't surprise me because I knew from temping that I didn't ovulate every single month. We were told ICSI was our best hope but were advised to have genetics tests before to rule out any genetic reason for the low count. The tests took months to come back, but thankfully were all clear. We were supposed to start ivf this month but the scan at the clinic revealed I have fluid in my right tube. This DR said that the first gynae probably mistook the damaged tube for cysts because it looks like pockets of fluid. I now need to have a lap, and probably the removal of the tube before I can start ivf. Hoping lap will take place in January.

lemon and SB, both 33, unexplained, TTC since summer 2010, now 11dpIUI for 5th IUI, 4th IUI+SO worked, BFP in August, MC in Sept, couple of months off AC after, just started again in Dec.

Euro: 36, Mr Euro: 37. TTC 27 cycles (two year anniversary on NYE, let's hope I'm drunk for it). We're officially unexplained although our own investigations have shown high NK cells and two "hidden" infections. We've tried 3 x superovulation (Letrozole) 2 x unmedicated IUI and half an IVF cycle (stopped because I couldn't hack the downregging drugs - they gave me depression and anxiety). I've also tried 6 months of steroids to try to deal with the NK cells. We're trying natural IVF at Create next cycle.

rabbit - On paper we are unexplained, like a Miss Marple itv effort. But actually, my fsh is borderline, DH (hare) has morphology that fluctuates between 3-7%, I just turned 36 and had a right hoo ha with a supposed fibroid this year that vanished and my womb is retroverted. Added up like a sum I'd say we are probably reproductively challenged. Ttc for 2 years minus many months of ops and procedures and post op recovery. The longer I go on at this the longer and more tedious the story gets!

viv - 41 yrs, ttc one year, mmc in March, 3rd Clomid cycle.

joy - me 33, Roy 31, ttc 33 months that's like 40 cycles in my short cycle land. Bfp 2nd month of ttc. M/C 7wks - july 2010. Tried clomid. 2 x iui. hsg fine. lap/hysteo & another hsg - fine. AMH dropped from 17 to 3 in 18 months. All other bloods fine. Hidden C and some bacterial thing found - 1 month of antibiotics. Roy - sperm and sperm frag all fine. Chicago blood tests - elevated NK cells. Now on ivf roller coaster. Will be a flare protocol due to low ovarian reserve. Cyst found. Another hysteo and cyst aspiration now.

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 16:28:14

bloody hell joy but they are at least cracking on with things, impressed they are doing this all on a Sunday hmm no reason why they shouldn't. Sorry you left in tears, but best they discover these things before you start IVF, interesting that your AMH dropped, I might get mine retested after I have done my 3 months on DHEA. Is this clinic doing your NK cells too??

GinSoaked Sat 29-Dec-12 16:28:42

Oh joy, I'd be stressed too! You've had a hell of a time with it already, but much better that they get the cyst now, rather than it mucking up your ivf. Do cysts secrete progesterone? I think they give out some hormone, so that may explain the high levels? During my ivf, they thought one of the follicles may have turned into a cyst, as it was huge and slightly cloudy. Dr doom and gloom made a big fuss, but then when I asked what difference it'd make, he said none and that they'd aspirate it in the EC anyway. Personally I think it was the follie I'd have ov'd from naturally that month but turned into a cyst as the antagonist wouldn't let it pop.

Your clinic sound super thorough and I'm beginning to see how they get their excellent results. I'm holding your hand tightly and will be thinking of you tomorrow x

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 16:44:44

Gin - Me 34, Dave 33. TTC 2.5 years. Crap sperms - v. low count, poor morphology and motility. 2 rounds of mild ivf with icsi at Create in April and Nov, bfns. The last cycle we managed to get a spare embryo to blastocyst, which is now frozen. Planning to do a FET in the next few months and when if that fails, iui with donor sperm. If that doesn't work, adoption or baby stealing!

madness - Me 34, MrM 37. Ttc 2.5 years. tests started after one year. suspected endometriosis. lap scheduled but acute fallopian abscess developed before getting to top of list and emergency surgery last xmas. many appointments and tests prior to second lap 2 weeks ago today. stage IV endo diagnosed and left tube removed. on decapeptyl to shut down ovaries until ivf hopefully in the next 3-4 months.

mrsden - TTC 30 months. Me 31, DH 32. Started investigations after 11 months and no hint of a BFP. Discovered that DH has very low count and poor morphology. I was told I have pcos. This didn't surprise me because I knew from temping that I didn't ovulate every single month. We were told ICSI was our best hope but were advised to have genetics tests before to rule out any genetic reason for the low count. The tests took months to come back, but thankfully were all clear. We were supposed to start ivf this month but the scan at the clinic revealed I have fluid in my right tube. This DR said that the first gynae probably mistook the damaged tube for cysts because it looks like pockets of fluid. I now need to have a lap, and probably the removal of the tube before I can start ivf. Hoping lap will take place in January.

lemon and SB, both 33, unexplained, TTC since summer 2010, now 11dpIUI for 5th IUI, 4th IUI+SO worked, BFP in August, MC in Sept, couple of months off AC after, just started again in Dec.

Euro: 36, Mr Euro: 37. TTC 27 cycles (two year anniversary on NYE, let's hope I'm drunk for it). We're officially unexplained although our own investigations have shown high NK cells and two "hidden" infections. We've tried 3 x superovulation (Letrozole) 2 x unmedicated IUI and half an IVF cycle (stopped because I couldn't hack the downregging drugs - they gave me depression and anxiety). I've also tried 6 months of steroids to try to deal with the NK cells. We're trying natural IVF at Create next cycle.

rabbit - On paper we are unexplained, like a Miss Marple itv effort. But actually, my fsh is borderline, DH (hare) has morphology that fluctuates between 3-7%, I just turned 36 and had a right hoo ha with a supposed fibroid this year that vanished and my womb is retroverted. Added up like a sum I'd say we are probably reproductively challenged. Ttc for 2 years minus many months of ops and procedures and post op recovery. The longer I go on at this the longer and more tedious the story gets!

viv - 41 yrs, ttc one year, mmc in March, 3rd Clomid cycle.

joy - me 33, Roy 31, ttc 33 months that's like 40 cycles in my short cycle land. Bfp 2nd month of ttc. M/C 7wks - july 2010. Tried clomid. 2 x iui. hsg fine. lap/hysteo & another hsg - fine. AMH dropped from 17 to 3 in 18 months. All other bloods fine. Hidden C and some bacterial thing found - 1 month of antibiotics. Roy - sperm and sperm frag all fine. Chicago blood tests - elevated NK cells. Now on ivf roller coaster. Will be a flare protocol due to low ovarian reserve. Cyst found. Another hysteo and cyst aspiration now.

buzzy - me 39 but not for long grin and Barry 39, TTC for 20 months, mmc @6 weeks in June 2010, mmc @10 weeks in October 2010. Diagnosed with high nk cells. 5 x super ovulation and 1 x with IUI. Have been on a cocktail of drugs, progesterone, prednisolone, hydroxychoroquine, progynova, umpteen vitamins, acupuncture. Low AMH 1.1 considering IVF/IVM with my own eggs, moving onto overseas DE and then adoption. I know I'll get my baby grin

mrsden Sat 29-Dec-12 17:04:50

Blimey joy. We don't like to be straightforward do we? Would the cyst cause high progesterone? Didn't you have a scan recently? Can a cyst form that quickly? At least they're sorting it out straight away, better that than ploughing on and it causing a problem down the line. It must be really common, I'm sure all women get cysts from time to time. Good luck for tomorrow, I'm impressed they work on Sundays, they must want to crack on this cycle?

Viv, ignore that thread. Hide it. Sometimes I torture myself h reading all the oh no I'm pregnant and don't want to be threads, it's like picking a scab.

I'm feeling all happy today, it's definitely because I'm in the positive bit of my cycle when everything looks rosy. I just want to get on with things. Gin - my patience isn't through choice! You sound like you've got a good plan. How does mr gin feel about donor sperm? I haven't brought it up with mr den yet, I'm not sure if I'm keen because I want his child but that might change when ivf fails. Your mil sounds lovely.

joycep Sat 29-Dec-12 17:05:56

buzz - It would be really interesting to know if your amh goes up after dhea. DrG wanted me to go on to that but i thought I would wait until i see what happens with ivf. Yes the clinic will treat the nk cells alongside the ivf.

Gin - i don't know whether cysts secrete progesterone. It's just a small one but i don't think it was there when i had my lap, i think they would have spotted it. Oh so they aspirated your cyst did they? it's not very nice thinking cysts are forming but it must be quite common when stimming. I'm very lucky to be going to this clinic and i hope it gives us a good chance if we ever actually get started there. Financially stressful but we have been saving for years as i predicted this day would come. They are quite strict about hormone levels so that does make me think that's why their results are better than other places. We can only try though. thanks for the hand hold. I'm pretty surprised they are doing it on a Sunday i must say.

mrsden Sat 29-Dec-12 17:10:57

When you say strict about hormone levels joy, do you mean they refuse to treat some women who don't have the right profile?

Thanks for doing the round up, we have a real mix of sorry stories don't we. But we havent lost our sense of humour. I'm so pleased to know you all, one of the positives to come out of this. It's so nice to see you on fb too. Such lovely women, and not one of us with two heads and barren stamped on us.

mrsden Sat 29-Dec-12 17:11:59

I've been on the mulled wine today! Please feel free to ignore. Y incoherent rumblings.

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 17:34:13

mrsd If we had 2 heads then we'd be Tasmanian grin Enjoy the mulled wine and have a glass for me smile If you did use DS it might not biologically mr dens baby but he would still love and care for it and be a great dad and the babys DNA won't matter as you'll have the baby you both want.

joy I was going to ask who you were with, do you mind telling me which clinic you are with PM if you like. My GP gave me the impression fobbed me off by saying they don't do much about cysts as alot of them come and go on their own hmm
I'll try and find somewhere cheaper to test my AMH, its more for curiosity than anything else, DHEA makes my face look like a greasy teenagers though. But hell if its works. . . What time are you going in tomorrow??

joycep Sat 29-Dec-12 17:36:09

mrsd - not sure how quickly cysts grow but quickly i presume. I'm pleased you are feeling positive. I know what you mean about wanting to get cracking now and you will be very soon. My head is fully there now. it wasn't a few months ago but I feel ready (albeit nervous and anxious) for ivf. Seeing what's happened to a lot of people on this thread, I feel there will be many curve balls and difficulties thrown in for good measure which obviously you can't prepare for. I cried when i left the clinic but by the end of the road, i had told myself to pull myself together. Doing something is easier than the waiting around year after year hoping for a surprise bfp.

Oh the clinic mrsd is strict about fsh and now i realise progesterone as well. So they will delay starting cycles for women if their fsh is over 10 for example. I get their point, if fsh fluctuates, it's best to do it when hormones are looking good. However, the argument is, this manipulates the figures and makes their figs look better than other places who take on people with difficult hormones. But there are some clinics who will just let anyone cycle, and do cycle after cycle and i'm sure some of those women will get a bfp but what percentage i wonder? I will still want to do ivf though even if my hormones are out of whack. Women just want to give it a go at least.

And we have a real mix of stories on here and you girls have been a lifesaver over the last few years. Very annoyed I'm not on FB anymore , would love to see what you all get up to in your spare time...but I can't face ever going back on there. i prefer living in la la land where i am unawares about old friends and old house mates having babies now. I'm on LinkedIn though if that's of any use!

joycep Sat 29-Dec-12 17:45:58

Buzz - the clinic is the argc. You see i don't know how many clinics would actually say a small cyst needs aspiration before ivf. My cynical side wonders if it's necessary but Roy and I are literally putting our faith and trust in them...everyone who goes there has to have a hysteo anyway because they say that it helps implantation.
uum dhea to grease up the face sounds good for me. My skin is so dry , it is like sandpaper! I'm in at 7.30am tomorrow.

mrsden Sat 29-Dec-12 18:01:57

You have to put your trust in the clinic, they want it to work for you. Do you have to pay extra for tomorrow's procedure then? I'm happy that our insurance will pay for my lap even though I'm have g it at a private clinic. The cost of ivf is eye watering and I'm angry that we have to pay for it. I don't know why it's not considered a medical procedure. Although, having said that we only have to pay half for up to three cycles so I shouldn't complain. It's a bargain of it works but if not it will feel like money down the drain.

I didn't realise Fsh fluctuated month to month. I've had mine tested twice and it was 7 the first time, 8 the second. I'd assumed it was a sign it was getting g worse. What is the flare protocol? How is it different to short?

Buzzy, I've had a mug for you. We spent most of the afternoon camped out in the market with friends. Was a lovely way to spend the day. Lots of wine and I also had a waffle and two crepes. Sod the no sugar pre ivf thing.

mrsden Sat 29-Dec-12 18:07:45

Sandpaper skin sounds like no fun joy, have you tried rose oil? I've been using it and it is very good, leaves my skin much softer. Although, the Xmas diet of chocolate has not been good for my skin and I've had a bit of a break out on my chin. I have one that is worthy of its own passport.

viviennewestwould Sat 29-Dec-12 18:13:50

I'd like to thank all of you who have been kind enough to respond to my meltdown yesterday, especially as I am new here and really shouldn't be bringing this kind of baggage to your thread. Artemis, I read your post three times to really soak up the simple truths within it - things I was already aware of, somewhere deep beneath the fog of yearning, which I really needed to hear. Thank you. You certainly were not being patronising when you spoke of appreciating what is great in our lives. I have learned very richly the true meaning of gratitude in the past two years of sobriety and this is why I am pained by my yearning for a baby. I am lucky to be alive after alcoholism almost claimed me on two occasions and ravaged me for five years. I lost everything: my family, friends, car, job, home and (abusive) boyfriend. I was homeless for two months and spent many weeks in and out of hospital with liver failure, gastritis, suicide attempts and bleeding of the oesophagus.

I remember begging the nurses not to chuck me out of hospital when I was well as I had nowhere to sleep that night. Luckily for me, because I was known to the police via their domestic violence team I was offered a place at a women's refuge at a secret address. The joy of staring up at a ceiling whilst sleeping in a real bed is one I shall never forget. I was kicked out of the refuge after three months when I couldn't hide my alcoholism from them any longer. I was back on the streets for a short while until a further admission to hospital saw me being admitted to rehab as an emergency (I had been on the waiting list for over a year). I was in rehab for nine months and emerged a brand new person in June 2010. I had met and fallen in love with Michael (my DP) whilst in there are and we now live together. I cannot believe the grace I have been shown in finding him and being loved so massively.

We are a strong team - we pull together constantly and need no reminders of what lies ahead if we stray from the path - and I am truly blessed we found each other. I am telling you all this not for the shock value or to elicit sympathy; I am trying to explain why I feel tormented by this ttc journey when I know where real joy lies - and it's not the gift of a baby. Not for me, anyway. Real joy has already befallen me in that I have been given a second chance at life. I have well and truly been saved.

So why do I feel tormented, empty and unfulfilled?

EuroShagmore Sat 29-Dec-12 18:19:33

joy that sounds like a pretty hardcore day! Are you feeling ok now?

I picked up some facial oil from Holland & Barrett, which I am using every other night (before hair wash day) under my night cream. My face does seem to be withstanding winter quite well, so that might be worth a go?

mrsd that sounds like an absolutely lovely afternoon.

Welcome back to wifi land Gin. I hope the funeral wasn't too hard.

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 19:14:13

joy Thanks for the info, I've just looked up ARGC, what are they like to deal with??, I do find Create a bit disorganised, the prices are similar, interesting though is that they both claim to have the best success rate confused Barry has said he has been looking stuff up and now has a list of questions hmm

I have the rose oil, but I am constantly spotty and put it down to the DHEA

viviennewestwould Sat 29-Dec-12 19:39:22

I hope you don't think I am on here merely to whine and that I don't read your posts - I do - and I have huge respect for all you Boudiccan warriors grin

viviennewestwould Sat 29-Dec-12 19:49:53

The Assisted Conception thread absolutely worship the ARGC. I would feel incredibly fortunate to have those geniuses holding my dreams in their hands smile

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 19:55:31

viv no everyone has there crap days and that is what the thread is for, to vent how you feel

EuroShagmore Sat 29-Dec-12 20:33:48

Yep, Viv, feel free to vent. We all do from time to time. It sounds like you have been through an awful lot to get to where you are now. You are clearly a very strong person and that strength will see you through this too.

ARGC does have amazing success rates, although I do wonder (like joy) how much their picking of patients influences this. Create kept stressing on the open day that they do not pick and choose their patients and their success rates are not as good as others. For me, the journey is important (as well as the end result) so the approach at Create suits me. I think. We'll see in a few weeks how I actually find cycling there.

viviennewestwould Sat 29-Dec-12 21:05:11

Blimey. Very interesting to see how success rates can be skewed when a robust selection process is in place. Hmm...[strokes chin]

Euro, I am often referred to as 'strong' yet I do not see myself like that. I still think I was horribly weak-minded to have succumbed to addiction in the first place. I used to scoff at the notion of 'addiction' and wondered why some feeble creatures allowed their lives to become so unbearably chaotic. I never ever considered for a moment that I could descend that far myself - and further.

I think what I am struggling with at the moment is this feeling that I have no right to be all-consumed with having a baby in my forties when I so royally fucked up my thirties. If someone told me I had a choice between having a baby but first having to go back through my alcoholic years and rehab, or, not ever having a baby - I would choose the latter. Does this indicate a healthy way of thinking for me, then? Am I not as lost as I have been fearing? Am I acknowledging that there are, in fact, worse states to be in than being childless?

I'm beginning to feel lighter already...

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 21:22:44

I think all clinics massage the figures as at the end of the day its a business. My concern with Create was that on the open day not only were they running really behind so we actually had less than 2 minutes and I mean less than 2 minutes with Geeta who looked at the results I had, no AMH and good E2 FSH and LH, and according to her discussion earlier about the new SA results Barry had good results but she instantly said that we would not conceive a child without IVF hmm yet I have managed to get pregnant twice and according to Shehata and Gafar my results were ok.
Then at the MOT Dr Doom and Gloom is telling me that I should have a lap and dye, when I asked why as I have been pregnant before and that I thought it would be an unnecessary and invasive procedure he then changed his tack, agreed and said I didn't need it confused

I'm more interested in how joy feels when she is there as I found Create rushed and stressed, I also think its a bit odd and funny that the staff there are constantly looking through key holes to see if a room is vacant. They just didn't fill me with great confidence, but will probably be the ones we use although I am thinking more DE as the chances will be better.

buzzybee123 Sat 29-Dec-12 21:41:38

viv you've had a quite a journey, the past is the past and you can not change that, you need to make peace with it and move on, you have every right to have a baby as the next lady, your age doesn't matter. You need to concentrate on the now with your DP and make plans for your future

EuroShagmore Sat 29-Dec-12 22:41:16

Mr Euro is sceptical about just about everything and he thinks they are all snake oil salesmen. He really disliked Shehata. He was quite scathing about some of the data presented at the open day at Create. But he will go with it because they offer natural and he hated seeing my personality change completely on the downregging drugs.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Sun 30-Dec-12 12:35:49

Loads of stuff happening here! Handholds for your procedure today, joy I hope it went well.

Interesting to read the AGRC vs Create discussion and figures in general. I'm interested how you're finding your respective cycles at both!

Sorry about your journey through your thirties, viv. I did think buzzy and artemis points are very helpful and could form a focus for now.

I found out this IUI had not worked yesterday, by peeing on an ancient stick (from way back when I hoped it would be negative, it was). So AF arrived in all her glory this morning. Time to get my head together and clean the flat before our guest arrives later on today. We had a bit of a miz moment about it all, together, yesterday, but thanks to vanishing progesteron I feel fine today (if slightly hangover).

Thinking of you all. And waves. And early good wishes to the bestest 2013, and cheers for tomorrow night wine , I won't be checking in much for the next few days. Probably back in here with my first stab of the new year!

joycep Sun 30-Dec-12 13:13:38

mrsd - i'm on the rose oil but doesn't seem to be effecting my skin. It's horribly dry all year round. Oh yes fsh goes up and down, sometimes by quite a lot i think. How lucky your insurance can pick up the cost of the lap. That's a relief.

Viv - what an extraordinary and difficult time you have been through. You have certainly walked in the rain. I think even if people know they have been given a second chance at life, the raw emotions that come with difficulties of trying to conceive, miscarriage etc can make anyone feel very empty and unfulfilled. I have read about a study which showed the stress of infertility is quite similar to someone battling cancer or HIV. I'm not sure how true this is and obviously this struggle isn't life threatening but it shows what an impact it can have on people's lives.

Lemon - oh i am sorry this iui didn't work. Now to look forward to the next one. It's so disheartening but at least you are doing something and you know it has worked for you before. Enjoy NYE.

Euro - yes you have to go where you feel comfortable. You had a terrible time with downregging so at least you can avoid all that at Create. I'm pretty cynical about everywhere as well - i want a baby and until that happens, i will think everyone is taking my money.

Buzz - i don't think anyone should look at someone's stats and say you won't be able to conceive without ivf. So many women conceive with less than perfect hormone levels. I read an interview with Mariella Frostrup and she was given a 0.0001% chance of conceiving. Yet at 42 and 43 she had 2 kids naturally. As for the argc, I have never felt rushed. At our initial appt, we had as much time as we wanted with the doc. But there is a lot of waiting around there. I mean 6 hours yesterday was a bit silly but now i know their timings can be off, i will go home in future. It is quite chaotic there. Incredibly busy with paperwork and files flying around all over the place. At 8.30am yesterday on Saturday there must have been 25 couples queuing up down the road waiting for blood tests. I think they have become a victim of their own success. Their prices look reasonable on their website but these costs are pretty off the mark. You have daily blood tests whilst stimming and maybe one or two scans a day for the last week - all of which has to be paid for. But I like the fact they really tailor it for the individual. Amount of drugs will be different every day and all blood results are looked over by the big man MrT. They also love their drugs and if someone gets pregnant they monitor you very carefully for the first 12 weeks.
It's intense i think and you just have to give yourself and your credit card over to them. Because their results are good, if you don't get pregnant, the fall can be pretty bad apparently. I'm fully expecting it to fail but I just need as good a chance as possible. It is a sausage factory and They don't do tea, love or sympathy but I don't need that in a clinic - i just want/need /desire results.

All went fine this morning. I wasn't even nervous. No tears in theatre this time. Spoke to the nurse before hand and she said sometimes it may not even be a cyst, it may have been a follicle growing but they can't do ivf when there is something there because cyst/or dominant follie will absorb all the medication and will grow more than the others. So that explains it. They measured my uterus and that is normal. And I've actually started ivf now! I did my first jab. I have to go in tomorrow for a teaching session on how to mix the powders. I just hope something grows down there now.

waves to eveyrone else.

mrsden Sun 30-Dec-12 13:26:00

Well done joy. You're getting to be a real pro at medical procedures. Was it ga you had this morning? Are you sore now? That's really interesting about how intense your clinic is, I'm not sure all clinics would insist on zapping cysts before they start? Did they say anything about your progesterone results?

viviennewestwould Sun 30-Dec-12 13:45:37

Yes, Lemon, Buzzy, Artemis and now Joy have given me more than a little perspective. Thank you, I appreciate it.

Joy, I love reading your posts. Congratulations on starting IVF. Glad this morning went well. How long does an IVF cycle take from start (first appointment) to finish?

I am at 7DPO and this morning I gave my thermometer to DP to hide until I'm 11DPO (at which point I can tell from my temp if AF is on its way). I feel rather proud of myself! hmm

buzzybee123 Sun 30-Dec-12 14:06:01

joy well done and yay to starting IVF, that is what was said to us which made me think they gave mor of a shit about my money than me hmm I don't expect these people to make me feel special and to candy coat the truth but as I am paying ££££££ I do expect to be treated with respect and I do expect them to be responsibly organised and to give me the time and information I need. I also expect a good bedside manner too. At the end of the day I want a baby and its in their interest as a business to make that happen wherever possible.
I have to say at NLC they treated me well, they were never rushed over booked etc, it had a nice calm atmosphere, yes there was waiting around when we did IUI but it had a nice clam waiting room, I like Shehatas approach and I felt he was polite and honest he also took into consideration that everything cost money, he and his colleague explained why they felt a hysteo would help but didn't rush it and in the end they decided that it was unnecessary, say with IUI he suggest the one and then to speak to the specialist about it instead of getting us to sign up to 3. Shehata always advised me to get my blood test on the NHS to save costs. Barry was impressed by him, we were doing IUI on a Saturday and even though Shehata wasn't working he had come into the clinic, he still took the time to come over and talk to us and wish us good luck. I walked out of there feeling good. I felt useless inadequate and depressed when I left Create.
I'm just curious as to what % each clinic will give me, if they are really low then due to our money situation we'd be better off just going for DE.

lemon sorry IUI didn't work this month

viviennewestwould Sun 30-Dec-12 14:21:38

Lemondrizzle, I omitted to say how sorry I am that IUI didn't work. Do you know where you will go from here?

rabbitonthemoon Sun 30-Dec-12 18:10:47

Hello people. I've been relishing in the first day with no family commitments. I am still in patchwork quilt mode. I cut out a set of practice squares and dug out the sewing machine from the loft only to discover that in the move a vital part has sheered off sad. It is a hand me down from the 70s but I am sad and craft thwarted. and now obsessing over want new one I might like madness what machine do you have?

But enough about me and my un ttc ways. May I remind you that I've almost fulfilled my not talking about ttc to you lot or hare (bar a teeny microscopic wobble) til 2013. But prepare for me to unleash on New Year's Day! Not really, I have nothing to report.

lemon sorry this go didn't work lovely. But we know it can for you and fingers crossed for the next go.

viv bfp envy is rotten. Step away from that thread and park yourself here. I never go on bus like threads as it is like slapping myself around the face with my own infertility. Oo it's cycle 2 and my boobs are hurting at 3dpo, do you think I could be? I don't go on those either. But anyway, reading through your story made me want to give you a big squeeze. You've had a tough ride and well done on arriving at a place where you are stable and in love. Inevitably for most people, when all the pieces fall into place it feels right to make a family. And once that decision is made, there is no turning back and you want to crack on with it straight away. Like NOW. When it doesn't happen straight away it is excruciatingly difficult. The one year mark is utter poo. But for me, I've had to find strategies to keep going and to keep feeling like a functional human that can smile and do stuff. Loosely categorised these are;

1) Distraction - I joined Goodreads and got reading again. Have read 52 books (nearly!) this year after a real drought. When I feel inclined to torture myself with infertility horror stories I try to read a book instead. The cinema and box sets are useful. Shopping is good (no baby gift buying in real shops) meals, walks (with my pushchair blinkers on) cocktails, pub quiz, plays, football (not for everyone and rather a secret) and generally just trying to make sure there are things to do.

2) Creative Outlets. So I haven't yet made a baby. But cooking and craft things have been useful. So I have mastered the macaron (whilst discovering I don't actually like them) mastered pasta making, almost finished a rug and about to make a sodding massive quilt. And when my lazy baby finally gets here I will have weaved and sewn a lot of ttc memories into them and can remind them if this when they are being a vile teenager. See this patch!? This is when I was taking clomid!

3) Calming Things. Yoga is excellent for soothing. I went to a meditation class and got the giggles, tried counselling and didn't like the lady and found an acupuncturist that I gladly part with 39 pounds every month because she is a fertility wise owl and makes me feel at peace with things. Not convinced about the needles but never mind. I don't do these things to get pregnant anymore but they do keep me sane.

4) Understanding Support. Here. And friends who have tried for 10 months plus. I don't have too many of them, but they are best.

I realise that is long and hope you havent fallen asleep! amd im sure you've tried some of this stuff and have developed strategies etc But a year ago this very day, I felt like I was having a total and utter nervous breakdown, like I was actually going a little bit mad. I'd had a horrible diagnosis after a lap with no apt until feb and was besides myself. I don't feel close to being like that again anymore but it does take a lot of considered effort to keep on the straight and narrow. I've still not mastered how to accept pregnancy announcements gracefully. But I'm trying to work on it.

joycep another massive bravery medal to you. Wow. I am in constant awe and admiration at your analytical approach to all of this. I'm sorry there was a cyst. I'm sure I get them some months, indeed clearly I did have a MASSIVE one at some point. But if we weren't ttc, I guess we'd be none the wiser? But I'm glad they are being so thorough, all this prep just has to be upping your chances. Congratulations on starting ivf! Exciting! How long will it go on for?

gin I like your zest for cracking in with it. Where can I get me some of it? I'm still massively in denial that I've got to get on with it. I'm going to need massive hand holding just to get into the hospital car park.

It is time to make tea. Spicy lamb flatbreads in chez rabbit. Massive love to buzzy art euro pout doll mrsden (when's the lap?) madness and all other 10 plussers and extra squeezes for sar we all miss you, if you're reading.

joycep Sun 30-Dec-12 18:53:41

Mrsd - it was deep sedation and i felt fine when i woke up. I've had terribly painful cramping this pm after the paracetemol wore off and now they have gone after taking more. Just been asleep for 3 hours. They didn't mention the progesterone but it must have gone down if they have started me.

Viv - well done for giving the thermometer to dp. That's a good step in the right direction!! I am on the short protocol for ivf and so I think i stim for about 9-14 days. Then may be add on 2 to 5 days on to that for EC and ET. So I think you are looking at 2-3 weeks. But if you are on the long protocol, then there are 2 more weeks or so to add on top of that...i think.

Buzz - yes you need respect and politeness. No rudeness etc. there have been some damning articles written in some of the papers by people who went to the argc and i think people have very different experiences at the same clinics. When it comes to % for you - isn't it best to look at the overall % for your clinic rather than asking specific to you?? I am interested as to why you are looking in to DE first. Is it because you think it will give you a better chance? From memory I thought your bloods were pretty similar to mine. FSH fine, low amh and your afc was ok wasn't it?? Considering you have got pregnant twice, i would have thought your chances were pretty good especially if you are treated for your immunes at the same time. And are you looking in to other places for ivf as you didn't feel positive about Create?

Rabbit - i can't tell you how much i love your lists of strategies and how you categorise different facets of ttc. i always read them and think 'ah i must do that'. Bloody impressed by how many books you have read this year. Wow!
yes apparently cysts are very normal and many months they grow and then disappear by the following month.

viviennewestwould Sun 30-Dec-12 19:42:01

Rabbit, I want to echo Joy about how calming and just so readable your posts are. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I think I am at the point you were at last year - I am starting to question my sanity a little. Worse still, I have quit my antidepressants and that familiar tightening of my chest (as though some fat-arse is sat on it) is returning. However, on the 14th of January I begin voluntary work at Addiction Dependency Solutions (ADS) in Manchester and will be working with drug addicts in their homes; those whose lives have become so chaotic they have dropped out of the programme. I am already imagining the liberation of turning my gaze away from myself and towards others whose lives have fallen apart. I hope I can be of help. This is not entirely altruistic: I am hoping this work will stop me worshipping at the altar of fertility quite so feverishly and, by offering myself to others, might the universe give something back to me? a baby would be nice smile

GinSoaked Sun 30-Dec-12 21:52:45

Viv you have been through so much and very much deserve to win your baybee. I so admire that you are going to use your experiences to help others. I keep thinking about doing some voluntary work, but then get all lazy when I'm back at work and remember how knackering my job/commute can be! Hang in there lady. You will get there.

Wow joy you deserve a super duper bravery medal! Did you enjoy the sedation? I quite liked it during EC smile And well done on the first stabbing. Are you doing them yourself? I have everything crossed for you and this cycle.

rabbit I really enjoyed your post too. May have to check out the book website. I find reading distracts me nicely too. I'm reading a book called The Snow Child, which does have a couple who can't have kids in it, but is very good - anyone else read it?!

buzz I found it important to pick a clinic I felt comfortable with. We all have different reasons for liking different ones. Are you tempted by create cos they are a bit cheaper? For me, like euro, their protocols were what attracted me. Plus it's pretty near us, has parking and is a lot cheaper than argc! Now I just feel comfortable there can't bear to have anyone else look up my chuff

lemons so sorry about the iui. It must be hard after the crappy xmas. Hope you have a good NYE and hangover to match the next day!

mrsd your mulled wine posts made me smile I agree with what you said!

Dave and I went for a walk today (not too far away from where I think pout resides - I hope you are ok pout?). We had a row about his lack of waterproofs and he sulked a bit, but it was nice to get some exercise and work off the Xmas diffed look. Am feeling a bit meh. I think it's due to lack of treats in Jan. Our calendar is empty, much to Dave's delight! Also it's difficult to plan when we don't know when the FET is, how many scans it'll involve etc. Must secure that follow up appointment.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to try to make a bouche de Noel (or whatever the French is for Xmas log) to take over to our friends for the NYE buffet we're attending. I can see it going horribly wrong, but it'll at least occupy me!

mrsden Sun 30-Dec-12 22:28:41

Arguing over waterproofs gin? That has made me chuckle, it sounds like the sort of thing we argue over. Good luck for the Buche de Noel.

We've had a love,y weekend, and still a couple more days off work. I know what you mean about empty diaries gin. I always think jan is a bit of a nothing month. And feb isn't much better. We're the same, in a limbo because I don't know what's happening with Lap and ivf yet.

Rabbit, you sound so grounded. I'm impressed with your reading, I have o many books waiting to be read. More reading less mumsnet ting for 2013!

buzzybee123 Sun 30-Dec-12 23:24:52

evening ladies, well thisis my third night in five that I have over indulged, and I have to go to work tomorrow sad although I have loved ctaching up with friends I am looking forward to a bit of quiet.

joy it depends on who is looking at my results, one says they are ok the other says I need IVF confused my last FSH was 9.2 which is the highest I have known it, my E2 was 170 AMH 1.1 and my AFC was according to Create low, 6 in total I think?? I'm more interested in my own % as that is based on my own stats, I'm not that interested in the clinics as they don't tell me how many actually had the same results as me the % might look good for the clinic because the women in my age group all had better stats.

gin I found the price of ARGC very similar to Create, not that much in it. NLC offered me the same protocol, I wouldn't do LP anyway. Yes for us cost is an issue as Barry still does not have a job, although inlaws have offered some money, it has materialised and they have now bought a property overseas so I have no idea what their finances like, if we spend £4,500 at Create we will be struggling to do DE overseas as its £3600 + flights and accommodation. That would take most of our savings which would be risky in our situation. So if they are offering 15% with my own eggs and 52% with DE then I'd have to chose the latter. I haven't actually tried the immune programme on a pregnancy which is a bit of a worry as I don't really know if it will work and help the pregnancy or not, IVF is an expensive way to find out.

I'm more than happy to do DE I have chatted to alot of women on FF who have been to the clinic and had success and to those who are waiting. If it means I have a baby then so be it. I don't need a child to have my DNA for me to be a loving mum. I really feel my best chance is with DE. I'm not in a position to try IVF more than once, I would be struggling to do FET.

Well I need to get some sleep ...........

viviennewestwould Mon 31-Dec-12 10:32:43

Buzzy, I would jump at the chance for donor eggs - and not just because I'm 41 (my eggs are okay-ish, I think, with an FSH of 8.5?). I don't care what the origins of my child are; I just want to be a mum.

Can you explain what E2 and AFC is, please?

I dearly wish Michael and I could afford IVF but, having only recently secured a job (him not me; I work freelance for very little money) since leaving rehab I cannot see a point in the near future when we would have whatever it costs to have IVF with donor eggs (if we had only one shot at IVF I would choose donor eggs due to my age - who knows how decrepit mine are?). This is why we are having one shot at IUI - we have saved exactly £1000 and there is no more money to be found.

Can I ask, am I never to know the true state of my eggs unless I have IVF? Will I automatically get an AMH test when I go for IUI? If not, how can I get one and what would it cost? Will I ever know if I have immune issues if I don't have IVF?

rabbitonthemoon Mon 31-Dec-12 11:21:14

viv you may well not even need ivf. My acu is always reminding me that when you are 35 plus, it can just take a lot longer. The volunteering sounds great. I've been thinking of doing some volunteering myself to kind of give back support as I'm only here and alive because I had so much myself in my twenties. I too go through phases of beating myself up that my past actions are directly responsible for the predicament I'm in now but it is gone and past so I do my best to let it go. Staying in the now is such a hard thing isn't it? A for amh and all the other bits, I choose to stay with my head in the sand. You can get amh on the nhs for a price, about fifty pounds I think. I figure ill find out st some point and just presume my figures are shocking.

lemon and nao I forgot to say, I use snippets off YouTube for fertilty yoga. It is pretty woven lentil but actually I'm enjoying being friendly with my womb as I'm sure hating that bit of me isn't a good thing! There is a woman who does <adopt the woo brace position> womb yoga. Am I off my trolley for wanting to try it?! If anyone wants to go with me... Oh and lemon was it advanced ashtanga yoga? I've never heard of yoga that isn't compatible with pregnancy and if there is a more hardcore one than bikram I want in on it! Compatibility with being updiffed pretty low on my priority list.

joycep I felt sad reading you were back in the paracetamol cramping post procedure place. I do feel we have all been through enough and it is time, very soon..

gin ha about the waterproofs. We had a row about the Christmas Ham grin. My calendar is also looking bleak. And I'm having a DRY January. Yak and double yak, but it is rabbit tradition. I need to plan some things.

Well it's the last day of 2013. I'd like to say a very big thank you to you all for helping me through what has been frankly one of the most (but not quite) challenging and hard years I've had. I was dancing in the bathroom this morning all wet after my shower and thought thank you mrsden for getting me started on that. And you have all supported in different ways - it would have been a very lonely road without you. This thread normalises what I'm experiencing and I hope we always keep in touch. And big fertility finger, 2013 is THE year if the 10plus change in luck. Or I'm warning you..

rabbitonthemoon Mon 31-Dec-12 11:23:23

Oh and buzzy hope work isn't too grim.

Cosmos1 Mon 31-Dec-12 12:23:45

Hi all, just popping up for long enough to wish you all the happiest of New Years and I really sincerely hope that 2013 turns out to be a great year for all of you. Big new year kisses to Doll, Rabbit, Joy, Sar, Gin, Artemis, Princess, Lemon, Euro, MrsD, Critter, Buzzy, Pout, and any newbies and people I forgot.

viviennewestwould Mon 31-Dec-12 12:24:34

Raaaaaaaa!!!!!! Kim Kardashian is pregnant! Is there no justice in this world? Can't wait to watch her already-gargantuan ass become even more vast, though grin

viviennewestwould Mon 31-Dec-12 13:26:17

Gin, I forgot to thank you for your kind words yesterday.

akuabadoll Mon 31-Dec-12 15:19:39

Cosmos you beat me to it. Have not had time to write, have read though. A very happy new year to all. Rabbit that was a nice message, it just must be your time after the year you have had. On to new adventures in 2013. x

ArtemisTheHunter Mon 31-Dec-12 15:59:56

I'll join in with the happy new year wishes and a massive thank you to the 10+ gang for being such a brilliant source of support, wisdom, hand-holding and occasional hilarity during the past year. Knowing you all is one of the good things to have come out of a difficult and stressful year and I am immensely grateful for it. Here's hoping 2013 brings the change in luck we all need. I've spent today in a panic that things are going wrong after the minimal symptoms I have had seem to have disappeared overnight, but pulled myself round this morning thinking about you lot and how much we have all gone through and how we are all still here and still fighting. One way or another it will all be OK.

Big loves to all of you, hope whatever you're doing tonight it's good. Next year belongs to us xx

mrsden Mon 31-Dec-12 17:35:05

Try not to worry art. I know that's easier said than done. You are probably just at the stage now where symptoms do lessen for some women. You've seen a heartbeat haven't you?

I echo everything already said, happy new year, please, p,ease please let our luck change in 2013. All of us on this thread so dearly deserve it.

I'm already hacked off with new year fb statuses from pregnant people, all full of excitement for next year. I have a sinking feeling that this Is going to be a tough year of disappointments. Please let this not be true.

Enjoy the new year celebrations whatever you're doing,

2013 - the year the 10 plussers all got up duffed.

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 17:36:20

art when is your next scan, I did find that some of my symptoms, mainly the sickness came and went.

viv when are you planning to try IUI??? That does seem alot for just one go or is it 3??? You won't be told anything with IUI. E2 is similar to your AMH, it depends on who is dealing with you to which one they will use. Your E2, FSH and LH can be organised through your GP, as it it has been awhile since you were last pregnant and being of a certain age hmm I am surprised that they have not offered you these tests. It might be worth seeing your GP in the new year. Your AMH you will have to go to a clinic and pay for, mine was £105 which is expensive, I need to look for cheaper places.
To get an overall picture you would need to go to a clinic for a fertility MOT where they check your blood flow to your bits inside and check that everything looks ok, they do and AFC which is a follicle count, that gives them an idea about your ovarian reserve. Not all IVF clinics do this and its not part of the treatment. I think it was £200 at Create in London.

Immune issues are totally unrelated to IVF, I had 2 miscarriages close together so I was sent to the miscarriage clinic at my local hospital where they did some blood tests and they came back with high nk cells. I think most places only do level 1 blood testing and you would probably have to go private for the other tests depending on where you live.

IVF here is around £5000 + It is actually cheaper for us to go overseas and use DE. £3600 + travel and accommodation. Also the waiting times are alot shorter. I think in the UK you can be waiting for 12-18 months and be paying £7000 +, although I have seen some places that say they offer options for people with cost issues.

It might be an idea to hold onto your money and do some research in your area, you're north I think??? Care Fertility?? you can always email a few places and see what they say.

rabbit work was easy and relaxed today, not much happening grin I was surprised at how good I felt considering last night.hmm

Well I think my sore boobs are going so AF in the next 48 hours, then onto more blood tests and trips to the vet.

Thank you for all your support ladies, I have a good feeling about next year, whatever it may bring

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 17:48:46

x posts with mrsd don't feel dispondent by others peoples posts, i have a lady who is really a friend of a friend, she takes great photos, she also has 6 kids, twins last year, she posts all the time, especially at the moment,although I used to envy her life I now realise that from all her constant posting, life is not as wonderful as it might appear on FB, if you need to constantly tell people what you are doing and constantly need that attention then yes they might be posting about their pregnancies but they are also needy and most likely not entirely happy if they need constant reassurance. Ha ha I shall now be super vigilant with my posts grin Most are mine are from people overseas who have already seen the New Year in. I will say I have another sort of friend who had a baby when my first was due and she is super about not going on about being a mum and how wonderful her child is, not because of me and others that she knows have miscarried but because she is happy with her life and doesn't need to broadcast it all over FB.

So no more sinking feelings, besides you have me to constantly go on about cat, I'm sure I haven't put up a photo of her for more than 24 hours grin

mrsden Mon 31-Dec-12 17:55:15

Put a photo up buzzy, she's so beautiful. Her eyes are an amazi g colour. That could be your fabulous photography skills though. I love the cat and tinsel one. I never tire of looking at kitty photos. I know that's true about fb, and it doesn't usually bother me, it's just it slams it home that if you're currently pregnant the the new year really does hold excitement. Whereas I have a lap to look forward to, but I know there are many far worse off than me.

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 18:23:03

true, I'm feeling a little emotional that its another New Year no further forward than last hmm I putting it down to my dropping progesterone level. You are having a lap but that is going to sort your inside bits out so you can have your baby, be careful what you wish for with Kayla, next year will have its ups and downs but as del boy would say 'this time next year' obviously I'd like to be a millionaire but I'd more rather be pregnant grin

rabbitonthemoon Mon 31-Dec-12 18:35:06

He who dares wins buzzy grin I like that you have a good feeling.

art my friends symptoms vanished at 9 weeks and never returned and all was fine. Hope it isn't too stressful x

mrsden I felt like that a year ago, like bully for me, major surgery instead of a baby angry but it does pass. As for Facebook I second everything buzzy said. People I know who post the most and make everything look screamingly fabulous are actually the ones with quite serious issues. I think after your op things will come good for you.

doll are you still in the uk?

cosmos massive hug. I was thinking if you as I planned some 2013 felty projects.

And...I bought a sewing machine! I have no patience or impulse control. Or ivf savings confused but I love it smile

Ive just done yoga and I'm in my pyjamas. We have new year cooking traditions/wine/film/sleep planned. No waiting for a taxi in the pissing rain for me! I will embrace being 36. It is not all bad.

akuabadoll Mon 31-Dec-12 18:39:26

i am indeed rabbit until Friday.
Try not to worry artemis have a hug.

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 18:53:40

rabbit I too am in my jimmy jams grin I think two nights on the piss is too much for me, plus half the trains and tubes aren't running, oooh what machine did you buy, I have been looking at some on ebay.

viviennewestwould Mon 31-Dec-12 20:26:44

Buzzy, my appointment with my consultant is on 16th Jan, however his hospital (who I'm having Clomid treatment with) doesn't do assisted conception. I assume that, on the 16th, he will merely be offering to refer me to an appropriate clinic around here (Manchester area)? I had FSH and LH levels tested at the start of my Clomid treatment. My FSH was 6.5 (GP surgery) and 8.5 (hospital fertility clinic) and my LH was good. We read that IUI costs between £500 and £1000 per round so we saved the latter (maybe we could squeeze two rounds out of that with a bit more saving?) I don't know, I just don't feel at all excited or optimistic when I think about IUI - but then again, I can't get cock-a-hoop about much these days when it comes to my fertility chances.

Anyway..I would like to wish all of you a happy New Year and the most blessed 2013 - wherever you are on your journey. I won't be toasting you with alcohol (obviously!) but I'll be slurping mugs of tea in honour of all of us warriors tonight. God bless brew x

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 20:39:20

viv I'm not the biggest fan of IUI unless I was getting it on the NHS and was advised not to bother, in saying that lemon has had success on it so there is always a chance smile You could ask for your E2 levels, my FSH has gone up and down which is normal, IUI depends on where you are cost wise, mine was £740 for one and £1560 for 3, I think euro found a place that charged £500.

I raise my mug of tea to yours, happy new year grin

viviennewestwould Mon 31-Dec-12 20:55:09

Thanks, Buzzy, I do appreciate people sharing their knowledge and opinions with me. Why do you think IUI is so hit-and-miss? Or is that a really dumb question? I don't even know what the success rates are for my age (41). Do you have any stats?

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 22:10:25

well you'd think it would work more when they are putting the lazy sperm right next to the egg hmm but for some reason it has a low %. If it wasn't so expensive i'd keep doing it. I think its about 5-10% ??

princesschick Mon 31-Dec-12 22:56:42

Happy New Year 10 plussers! I'm still here lurking and rooting for you all. An extra flamboyant wave of the pom poms and loud cheer leading battle cries for a plethora of BFPs in the coming months. It's all about winter 2013 BFPs now. A whole new batch. Here's to a fab and successful 2013 for all :-)

Me and Mr P are on the sofa in big jumpers, drinking tea and eating leftover birthday cake and watching telly, just home from eating ice cream, pizza, pop corn and watching the Hobbit. 2012 has been a weird one for us and we feel very very lucky to have finally got there. Don't lose the faith ladies, you'll all get there. It's in my mystic waters. Loads of love to you all xxx

viviennewestwould Mon 31-Dec-12 23:36:33

Crumbs. 5-10% sounds shit, right? sad

I'm also sat in my new pyjamas which, bizarrely, make me look like Chewbacca. My mum got me them for Christmas and they are literally a set of shaggy Fozzy Bear-type weirdness. I daren't ask her where she got them - they smell as though someone else has already worn them and the backs of my knees are beginning to itch hmm

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 23:42:41

is it a onesie wink I could be wrong about the stats but I'm pretty sure that is what they told us. Not sure why I am waiting till midnight hmm

buzzybee123 Mon 31-Dec-12 23:44:03

oops kitty keeps walking over my laptop, suddenly she wants to be my kitty princess good to hear from you

buzzybee123 Tue 01-Jan-13 16:35:50

viv just had a look at that other thread, frightful and slightly disturbing to say the least, thank goodness for this place grin hope you all had a lovely first day of the year smile

Thatssofunny Tue 01-Jan-13 16:59:11

Am I still allowed to join? Been trying since December 2011, but no luck, yet. Had to put the whole thing on hold for a few months as well, since we're getting married in the summer...fed up and beyond caring by now...don't mind being a very chubby bride. hmm

EuroShagmore Tue 01-Jan-13 17:04:36

I was told about 10% success rate for IUI too, buzz

Viv I found a clinic that offered IUI for £750 or you could buy a bundle of three for £1500. We did that. We have used two so I guess we have one in hand. We should use it but I needed an assisted conception break after the IVF debacle last summer. Maybe we will give it a go after the first natural IVF cycle.

Happy New Year to all the 10+ers, and thanks for your support and sharing over 2012. We have just been to dump our Xmas tree for recycling and frankly I am quite glad to see the back of both Xmas and 2012. It has mostly been a big pile of arse.

buzzybee123 Tue 01-Jan-13 17:14:42

funny welcome to the thread smile

euro I thought it was something like that, don't think my IVF % will be much better than that hmm I was thinking of taking down my decorations but got distracted, sorry its been a big pile of arse for you.

viviennewestwould Tue 01-Jan-13 17:26:29

Message deleted by Mumsnet for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

buzzybee123 Tue 01-Jan-13 17:33:04

viv I only read the last few pages which was enough for me, some of them sound like they married to idiots though hmm AIBU threads are far more interesting grin

I think you can chose or the clinic will if you Super ovulate on your IUI round. I did as I hoped it would increase my chances but then its just putting more drugs in your body. I'm secretly liking the sound of chewbacca jim jams grin

EuroShagmore Tue 01-Jan-13 18:01:55

viv at my clinic I could choose natural or medicated IUI. I chose natural because on my three Letrozole cycles, my ovulation day kept changing, whereas it is always CD14-16 on a natural cycle, so it is much easier to time the IUI. I might try to give myself a boost for the last one though and try some drugs. The drugs will cost extra though.

Thatssofunny Tue 01-Jan-13 18:17:42

Thanks viv and buzzy
I also like the idea of a chewbacca pyjama. It sounds very nice and cosy. I've got something similar,...in purple,..my dad says I look like a teddybear in it...and he doesn't mean that in a nice way

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Tue 01-Jan-13 18:28:22

Happy New Year 10+ers, thanks for the support over the last shitty one and onto a very happy and fruitful 2013 for all of us and welcome to funny!

I had a really good night, drank too much, ate too much but feel fine smile and I just did my first stab of 2013 (moved onto gonal-f because of my headaches, much less faff!) The stats I got quoted for IUI are 8-10% natural, 10-12% SO. And they consider it a numbers game, it takes a few tries to see whether it can happen this way for you (due to those stats) but particularly natural IUI is quite low impact, I found. RIght too knackered to think or write, so will be in tomorrow for more elaborate posting.

viviennewestwould Tue 01-Jan-13 19:02:27

I'm not afraid of the drugs. At my age I welcome the chance of producing more than one follicle per cycle (which is what is happening thanks to the Clomid). I don't mean to sound cavalier, you understand, and popping out two eggs per month still doesn't guarantee a pregnancy - I'm just running out of time.

Funny, the problem is these monstrosities smell like Chewbacca's been wearing them hmm

ThatWayMadnessLies Tue 01-Jan-13 20:14:28

Happy new year everyone!!! Had a lovely quiet night in with MrM able to tentatively have some bubbly now that the antibs are all finished grin. We have a lovely view of the fireworks every year if we open the velux windows and lean out a little so ideal really. I can't bear the crowds so very happy to watch the festivities on telly and see the fireworks in my pjs.

Welcome funny I am sure that you will feel very welcome and supported here. Lovely to have another bride to talk wedding stuff with now that nelly has become mrsnelly. I do love a good wedding!!

rabbit you were too quick on the sewing machine front. I have a Janome quilter's companion (very cheesy name I know) that is computerised. I absolutely love it. It was a far too expensive online impulse purchase but has been out to very good use so far grin.

To add to the IUI chat there's no point for us to try with the endo but my friend has just had success on her first round after trying for 5 years for baby number 2 so it obviously works for some people, despite the slightly off putting statistics.

I'm quite jealous about all of this talk of natural cycles. I am on the longest protocol ivf cycle known to man confused. I had a crazy mood swing the day before yesterday. Poor MrM didn't know what the hell was going on. I wanted to throw things and ended up in a hysterical heap on the bed blush. I came round and we had a lovely evening with friends visiting, but I'm hoping that it won't happen very often. We have a code word for next time so he knows that I am completely out of control and just need him to help me through it or back off until I resemble a human again. He really is a lovely husband.

Thank you to everyone here for welcoming me back so warmly over the past few months. I really appreciate the support and hope that on occasion I am able to repay the favour.

buzzybee123 Tue 01-Jan-13 20:45:44

madness one of my colleagues said she wanted to stab her husband with a fork when she was on the drugs grin the fireworks were amazing last night, we are up high and so see everyones efforts :-)

rabbitonthemoon Tue 01-Jan-13 20:48:57

Quick post I'm v tired indeed. Two late nights in a row is too much (a baby will actually break me) I'm a 9 hour sleep girl! Had a lovely new years walk today hurray for a bit of blue sky.

euro you have inspired me to get shot of the tree tomorrow. Time for not Christmas anymore to commence.

lemon happy new years stabbing. It is the Chinese year of the snake - its the 10 plussers mascot of animals we HAVE to do it this year!

madness I've started basic to see if I actually love it. I've made my first small thing today smile sorry about the mood. We have a bad mood stair for me. Ha!

Welcome funny.

Well I'm talking ttc again a bit because I have HURTING boobs. Why are some months boob agony and others not? I cant even wear a bra at the moment. Not that I really need one.

buzzybee123 Tue 01-Jan-13 21:04:39

sounds promising rabbit

Don't want to go work tomorrow, want to stay home and do crafty things

rabbitonthemoon Tue 01-Jan-13 21:35:23

Me too buzzy I've got back to work grumps sad

freedom2011 Tue 01-Jan-13 22:09:36

hi everyone. Happy new year to you all! I am a long time lurker and infrequent poster. So infrequent, I get welcomed as a newbie everytime I post grin
A short update from me. I had IUI try number 3 in December. I am due to test on Friday this week, the 4th Jan but don't feel pregnant. Other than perhaps a post xmas/ new year food baby. The drugs are still making my hair fall out but my hair dresser has worked some magic so now I have a mini comb over covering my small bald spot. Unfortunately my hairdresser (I've been going to her for 6 years) also quizzed me about my private life to look for a reason for my hair loss and pretty quickly guessed about the hormone fertility drugs. Then I had to listen to her go pn about it all being in the hands of god and to stop stressing as that would make my hair fall out more. Thanks for that hairdresser. hmm

Anyway, for Viv and Naokosan, I am 35 soon, DH 40 this year. We have been trying for 3 years and 8 months. Just one early MC back in 2010. We have been seeing fertility doctors for about half a year now I think. I have mild PCOS and male hormones that are too high. DH has a normal count but low motility.

Fingers crossed for lots of BFPs this year.

freedom2011 Tue 01-Jan-13 22:14:56

The MC was in 2011 but anyway, ages ago, no sign of a BFP since. It's late. Time to rest so I am happy at work tomorrow and not just wishing it was the weekend.

GinSoaked Wed 02-Jan-13 08:42:44

Happy new year ladies! I agree with euro 2012 was a pile of crap, adios shit year. 2013 HAS to be better for us all. Urgh it's my first day back at work and it feels horribly early. My train is deserted and it's not properly light... Will catch up properly later, but just wanted to wish y'all HNY xx

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Wed 02-Jan-13 08:52:07

Back at work too. And clearly NYE was better than Xmas as I didn't feel like getting up this morning, so have done an impromptu day of working from home smile

Good wishes to all of you. And welcome back freedom. Hiss boo at your hairdresser, though. The last thing you want is being lectured on relaxing and things happening, right!?

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 10:31:15

Morning ladies. I'm am distinctly unimpressed at being back at my desk. And really quite grumpy.

joycep Wed 02-Jan-13 11:15:21

Hi ladies, happy new year. I’m not going to put any hopes on this year because after having had hopes for 2010, ’11 & ’12, i don’t want to even think or be wishful about what this year has in store.   I’m the eternal pessimist but i kind of want to prepare myself for the worst.
 
Freedom – best of luck with your testing. Goodness, you deserve a bfp so much.
 
Congrats to Rabbit for not talking ttc for a month or so. Did it make you feel better?
 
Madness- sorry about your crazy mood swing. I think the mood swings are one of the worst side effects of the drugs. I hate not feeling myself.

Art - is your scan this week? I know it must be so worrying but loads of people lose symptoms and all is fine. Hope scan comes quickly so you can relax a bit. If I got a bfp I think I would just want to be throwing up the whole time. Anyway thinking of you - these first 8 weeks are the worst.
 
Big waves to everyone.
 
So i’m on day4 of stimming. I have been having daily blood tests and then the drugs are readjusted everyday. Scan this morning showed things to be quiet but that is to be expected apparently. I had to take a 5am injection this morning and after 3hrs kip on NYE, i’m exhausted already! It’s very weird walking around with a massive bag of drugs because once I get my instructions via phone call, wherever you are, you have to go and inject. So I have got the mixing and administering down to a 15 minute process. My aim is to get it down to 5mins. I haven’t told work yet. I think I can get away with it this week as I can get everything done before work. Next week may be a bit more tricky but I am going to see how far I get without telling them. NK Cells have been retested today so I guess I will start treatment for that fairly soon. Struggling with the litre of milk i have to drink a day and the 2+litres of water. This will be upped to 3.5litres next week.  I still can’t believe I’m actually doing ivf. it’s kind of disbelief really but there we go.
 
So what’s everyone’s plan this year with treatment and non ttc this year??  I start my course in March whether this works or not. I will do another cycle in the Summer if it doesn’t work. And apart from that I don’t really have much planned. Course will take precedence. TTC will try and be a side show. [i know bloody well it won’t but i can but try].

sjhoping Wed 02-Jan-13 11:18:26

Hello,

Im new to all this but been trying to conceive for 11 months....11 eggs and 11 disappointnents. How do you cope with this? Any advice or suggestions would be a great help

mrsden Wed 02-Jan-13 11:26:11

Happy new year! I'm joining joy in not making any wishes, I've done that in 11 and 12 and nothing.

I'm also joining in the back at work grump. I'm even thinking that I should look frwrd to the lap because I'll get time off work, that's how bad the post holiday blues are.

Joy, I'm excited for you, I really do think this might work for you. It sounds like the clinic are so thorough, it sounds a little complicated though. Are you on a standard short protocol or is it something different? Whats the course?

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 11:33:47

joy it sounds like a very intensive process, but you seem to be taking it all in your stride! On the NHS I was just told what dose to take and left to get on with it for 2 weeks!

My plan for the year ahead is natural IVF next cycle, then possible our spare IUI that we paid for last year, then two more natural IVF cycles over the next few months. We are planning to take several short holidays this year, after last year's long haul extravaganzas! We're thinking of maybe the Northern Lights for the first one, and then some trips to Italy and places like that, mostly as long weekends.

sj I'm sorry that you find yourself here. I found your stage really tough. Bizarrely after 18 months I started to find it easier most of the time (although the 2 yr anniversary has been hard). I got through the last year with a new hobby and some exotic holidays.

I'm on CD15 and I think I am about to ov from my left side. My temp was down this morning (although as I have been taking them at varied times over the Xmas break, they are not particularly reliable at the moment). My last chance before IVF.

I had a bit of a grump at Mr Euro last night. If that recent study is to be believed, as we are unexplained there is an 80% chance that there is a sperm DNA frag problem, but he is not the one spending hours on the internet researching it, and he can't even remember to take a bloody vitamin pill. So it is all on me now. I'm the one who has to have a needle shoved though my fanny, etc. I'm just a bit resentful.

viviennewestwould Wed 02-Jan-13 11:35:34

Joycep, what is stimming, please?

Sorry for all the reluctant workers - bummer. I'm watching the Great British Bake-Off and marvelling at the BBC's inclusive policy grin

viviennewestwould Wed 02-Jan-13 11:39:52

Welcome, Sj, I feel your pain, sister.

My plans for 2013 include IUI (x3?), then, if that fails and my DP is still smoking, I plan to take up my old hobby of dogging - this time with no condoms.

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 11:57:40

stimming=taking ovary stimulating drugs, to produce several eggs for IVF

Naokosan Wed 02-Jan-13 12:55:42

Hello everyone, happy 2013! Wow so many posts to catch up on, I'm only able to use MN on my phone so keeping up is difficult.

Lemons - Sorry AF arrived.

Viv - it sounds like you've had a bumpy ride. But what the others have said is true, that is all in your past. You should be proud of yourself for getting through it.

Joy - glad things went well at the clinic, well done on getting things started. I think you're incredibly brave, as everyone on this thread is. All the best for the rest of the cycle, 'I'm willing it to go smoothly and successfully for you.

Rabbit - I'll drink to having no more family commitments! wine. I like all of your strategies and I am also addicted to goodreads. There's something about cataloging and making lists that brings out my inner nerd. And thanks for the yoga tips. I've just joined an online yoga network so I can do classes at home.

Welcome Thatsso, you've come to the right place. I've also been trying since dec 11, the year mark is tough, isn't it? I'm sure we will all get there eventually, my hook or by crook. Congratulations on the wedding though!

Welcome to SJ too! [waves]

Hi to Freedom. I think I would have slapped that insensitive hairdresser!

I'm on CD7 and not expecting shag week for at least another 10 days. It seems that no two of my cycles are the same and every month throws a different curve ball. Rabbit, I usually get really sore boobs pre AF too, except this month they weren't sore at all. Not even a tiny bit. I wish I knew if these things were significant or whether just to ignore.

My plan for 2013 is to start asking doctors questions about why this isn't happening for us. Everything after that has a huge question mark over it. I'm north of the border so doctors aren't open on the 2nd, i plan to be on the phone to them first thing tomorrow morning.

I'm off now to do some online yoga and try to get out of the 'must eat junk food all day' mindset.

2013 best wishes to everyone thanks

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Wed 02-Jan-13 13:05:47

Wow joy that sounds very involved. But impressed to getting mixing and injecting down to 15 minutes. Are you on menopur? I have been given gonal-f this round to see whether I get less side-effects and now the whole stabbing procedure takes about two minutes, so I like that side-effect of changing drugs. I have everything crossed for you this year.

Our plans for this year are one more SO IUI (over by the end of this month) then review with the clinic. Then a treatment break with a long-haul holiday smile and finishing the master course I've been doing for the past year and a half. After that possibly maybe IVF. But we're very much in two minds about that. I think I'll be debating that at length on here in February.

Sorry for the grump, euro. But the study sounds interesting (especially as SB's contribution can be a bit borderline sometimes) do you have a link? And how is the email-backlog processing going?

Welcome here sj. I hope your stay here is short and sweet. I wrote on here and on the "how do you stop TTC affecting your life" thread on my coping mechanisms. But it sucks, the big anniversaries are very difficult.

Good luck on yoga and getting some answers this year, naoko!

Waves to all of you, especially the lurkers for fab reasons (princess and co) or for a break (you know who you are!)

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 13:31:15

drizz this is a badly written news report relating to the test (hate the use of the word "blame") but it is the only one I can find now. I posted about it when I first saw it a couple of months ago. www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2232989/MEN-blame-cases-unexplained-infertility--new-test-help-couples-succeed.html

I've got rid of most of the junk email. I'm left with the 60-odd that I actually need to read now!

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Wed 02-Jan-13 13:48:39

I can find this published paper on it:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23246107
But it is a tiny study, so needs to be taken with a lot more salt than the DM seems to. But that is not all that surprising wink

ArtemisTheHunter Wed 02-Jan-13 14:10:52

Afternoon all

Can I join the general grump? I'm not into this back-to-work thing At All.

Joy well done on getting through your op without tears and congratulations on starting your IVF cycle. It sounds like they are monitoring you very closely indeed. Like Euro, my NHS experience was being handed a bag of drugs and told to come back in a fortnight. I hope you can manage to fit it around work. I found that the most stressful part of the process - I got used to injecting myself in public toilets in a variety of places (trains, conference centres, offices, restaurants...). You sound like you're taking it all in your stride.

Rabbit well done on the sewing machine and crafting! There'll be no stopping you now. i loved your list of strategies and think I need to revisit them to keep my mind off mentalling. No, it doesn't stop after a BFP. I realised that IVF and its aftermath have been the first thing on my mind every single day since mid-October and that can't be healthy. Good on you for abstaining from ttc talk. Womb Yoga has to be the most extreme-sounding woo I've ever encountered but surely it can't hurt so why not go for it smile

Gin grin at arguing over waterproofs. I hope you get to line up some January treats, that's essential to help with the back-to-work gloom.

Viv goodness me you've been through the mill. I think you should be immensely proud of how you have turned your life around. And voluntary work too... that's great and I'm sure will help provide an alternative focus. FWIW, on the testing question, I never had an AMH test. The clinic didn't require it. I had LH and FSH tested when I first went to the fertility clinic a year ago but no further tests since. I understand some consultants don't think AMH is useful so if funds are restricted it may not be worth expensive testing. Just a thought. And grin at the dogging plan. Hope nobody from the Daily Mail reads this thread, I can just see the headlines grin

Nao glad the relatives are gone! IMO the symptoms thing is one of the cruellest headfucks of ttc. There is just no way of knowing whether these things are significant or not but of course we can't help wondering. Getting the ball rolling with the doctors sounds like a good idea.

Euro several short holidays sound like a good plan. I have always wanted to see the Northern Lights. One day. FX for that ironic pre-IVF diff.

Lemon I'm really sorry this latest IUI didn't work. I'm still hopeful for you though - it has worked before, it can again. And a holiday to look forward to sounds great smile

Welcome Funny and sj, you'll find lots of help and support here

Freedom I'm glad the hairdresser has sorted you out a combover but angry at the well-meaning but unhelpful advice.

Madness good to see you and I'm sorry about the drug-induced meltdowns. It should get better when you start the stimming drugs. A code word sounds like a good idea!

Loves to Sar if you're reading and I'm thinking of you as the lap date approaches. Hope it brings some answers.

I had a scan this morning after working myself into a state of barely controlled panic that everything had gone wrong. In the last couple of days all the minimal symptoms I've had have disappeared - no more feeling dizzy; after a half-hearted attempt at expanding my boobs have gone back to normal size and not at all painful; and still no sign of any nausea or sickness. Like Viv I've been torturing myself with other threads, specifically the pregnancy ones in which excitable women compare vomiting, complain their boobs have gone up two cup sizes in a week and buy baby/maternity stuff in the sales at all of 8 weeks gone. Where do these people get their confidence? Couple the vanishing symptoms with brown spotting this morning and weird stabby lower abdominal pains and I had convinced myself I must have had an mmc and was prepared to hear the worst. So it was a welcome shock to see a blob about 2cm long with a heartbeat. Yet for some reason I don't feel reassured. The nurse (who also seemed grumpy about being back at work) didn't offer any opinion on what might be causing the spotting, just said that there is nothing they could do about it but "at the moment" things look OK. I am discharged from the unit now and feel a bit adrift as I'm still worried, but I have a midwife appt next week so I just have to hope it subsides of its own accord and try to keep the faith that everything will be OK. One day at a time etc.

And breathe. I'm meant to be working but predictably have done nothing useful so far today. I'm going to make an attempt to tidy my desk (no mean feat) and clean my office, which means finding the floor... Tomorrow I'm on a 7am train for a meeting in That London about a new project, can't wait for the alarm to go off at 5.30... still, it could be worse. At least I don't have to stick probes up other people's fanjos first thing in the morning hmm

Waves to everyone I've missed. How are Critter and Akuaba - still in the UK or heading back home?

Poutintrout Wed 02-Jan-13 14:11:55

Happy New Year. Just a quick post because we are packing up the house and I am already behind. We are at that lovely phase of shite everywhere and being unable to walk in a straightline round the house without stubbing toes and knocking legs.

Sorry for not catching up properly but just wanted to say that I am glad that your op went okay joy I hope that you are feeling better.

Sperm fragmentation sounds interesting and worrying in equal measure! MrP refuses to take his vits regularly and would happily drink like a fish if I let him. He seems to think that I make up how easily sperm is affected by lifestyle.

lemons I am sorry about the test. That is a bummer. What next for you?

gin it made me smile at the thought of you being just up the road (if you were where I think you were walking...sounds like a Simpsons place name?) It's funny that we could have bumped into eachother and not realised!

Sorry about the New Year back to work grumps and general malaise. I hate NY anyway but am particularly feeling it this time and feel genuinely afraid of the new year and what it might bring or not bring. I can't believe that 2012 was another duff year in the baby stakes too and feel a bit sad.

Hello and welcome Viv and SJ I am sorry that you find yourselves here.

Love and waves to everyone rabbits, mrsd , euro, madness, freedom , buzzy , naokosan, art , princess , cosmos , critter

I have my first IVF appointment tomorrow and am shitting it. My legs keep shaking and I threw up yesterday with the nerves. What a wally grin

Poutintrout Wed 02-Jan-13 14:15:39

x-posted art I am sorry that you are so worried. A heartbeat is the main thing though. As well as the threads and posts you mention about symptoms you also read loads of posts about ladies who had spotting all the way through their pregnancies. Please stop panicking, you and the bean will be fine smile

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Wed 02-Jan-13 14:26:50

Pout, a special happy new year and massive good luck for tomorrow for you. So pleased to see you, even if you are upto your neck into packing, moving and throwing up out of nerves for the appointment. Did you find somewhere to move to?

And breath arte. I totally know what you mean about the worrying not ending with the BFP. But you have a bean, with a functional heart, and you are discharged from the IVF unit. A massive step. Feeling nervous is normal, and feeling very nervous after going through AC in all its forms is extremely normal. You're doing really well. One step at a time, no worries about disappearing symptoms and have fun in the big smoke tomorrow!

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 14:34:15

Drizz there was more about the study at the time. I don't think it is the one you found. I see to remember it was from a group of Brighton-based scientists and they had patented a new DNA frag test that had a silly name. That is all I can remember though. I don't want to google about sperm from work but I will try to remember to later and see if I can find it.

pout I'm feeling a bit better now that we are in 2013! I found NY really, really hard. Good luck with the move!

Art a 2cm bean - woo hoo! I know it can't be easy to stop worrying but right now all is well. smile

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Wed 02-Jan-13 14:38:20

I can google it myself, euro. Working from home has its advantages (besides sleeping in!) I shall try a little more later. But I am not allowed too much IF search time in 2013, as it will make me miserable.!

joycep Wed 02-Jan-13 16:10:54

SJ – welcome, i was beside myself after 11 months so totally understand. Euro has good advice. But you must remember you are well with the norms of normal and we have had people on here who conceived after 19months naturally. Have you had any investigations?
 
Mrsden – i’m negative and a pessimist and the clinic is thorough and very good but i can’t believe for a second i will be one of the lucky 57% who ends up giving birth after a cycle there. That would just seem too good to be true.  We are even told to be positive but I don’t have the nerve to be. I’m taking every day as it comes and will see how my ovaries fare with treatment. I’m on the flare protocol. I have no idea what this is but it just says on my piece of paper it is for older women or people who don’t respond well to treatment, i.e. low ovarian reserve. When do you find out about your lap date?
 
Euro – can’t you get MrE along to andrology solutions for a quick sperm frag test? It will at least tell you if there is an issue or put your mind at rest before IUI / ivf. Men are crap when it comes to doing things. I’ve given up on getting Roy to take vitamins and I am not sure they were doing much.
 
Naoko – it’s good to get some basic blood tests done by your GP and to get a referral to a consultant as well. I’ve found GPs know bugger all about fertility. I forget how long have you been trying?
 
Lemon – i’m on Merional, Fostimon and Cetronide. They sound pretty poisionous don’t they?! I did gonal F with my IUI and I was fine on it so i hope you don’t have any side effects. I think the key is to drink water with treatment to keep your body balanced. ..or so i have been told. Ooh a long haul holiday sounds great.
 
Art – god this is a truly awful wait for you but a heartbeat is bloody good news and v v v positive. it must be very distressing to be getting brown spotting and pains but this also can be totally normal. Don’t forget that most people don’t get morning sickness.  My old boss had huge bleeds and then brown spotting around the 9wk mark and it was all totally fine even though she had convinced herself it wasn’t. It sounds torturous especially because of the journey you have been through to date. But so far so good. Stay away from those ghastly pregnancy threads, it’s not good to compare notes with others.
 
Pout – oh you’re moving. Good luck with that. And best of luck with your ivf appt tomorrow. It will be fine. Sorry to hear you are so nervous about it. It’s best just to get these things going. I think i find ivf nerveracking because i feel like it’s last chance saloon. If this can’t get me pregnant , nothing can and having to face that prospect is hard. But then again, it could be the key to everything so it’s difficult to avoid. I think you’ll feel better that you are actually doing something though rather than the wondering and waiting every single month.  

Thatssofunny Wed 02-Jan-13 16:44:52

Goodness, you lot seem organised with all that stuff. shock I wouldn't know where to start with all these medical things. We are still trying "natural" conception and despite it having been a year, I'm not too worried, yet, Nao. We had lots of little breaks last year, because I changed jobs last summer. Not a great idea to get pregnant straight away, when they've brought you in to troubleshoot,...not to cause trouble...wink Wouldn't have minded, but meant we probably didn't try as hard.
DP has told me to relax, so I'm trying. But I'm a rather impatient person and don't like it when things don't go the way I plan. He's not terribly emotional at the best of times. However, he came back from town with a baby name book today. grin

Madness I'm not sure I'm much of a "bride" to talk to. smile We'll be having a very small family wedding (25 people) - abroad. The last two weddings I went to were quite posh and elaborate, with lots of sitting around...and me taking the little ones (nephews) off for a walk and a run around. I want ours to just be relaxed and more like a family party, with us getting married at the same time. We might even have a bouncy castle, and there's a little stream that the kids can play in. It's likely to be about 30+ degrees in August anyway.

Feel sorry for all the people, who are off to work already. I'm officially going back on Monday, but I'm going in tomorrow to get some stuff sorted.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Wed 02-Jan-13 17:05:27

Thanks for the drinking tip joy. I really hope I cope better on gonal...

Funny, don't forget a lot of us have been trying for over 2 years, hence the being ready for AC and knowing too much about it. We tried for 21 months naturally, but had the first batch of investigations after a year, a second lot after 1.5. As was said by someone up thread, we've had natural conceptions on this thread after a very long time, so there is still a decent chance you will fall pregnant before getting anywhere near the injecting stage that a lot of us on this thread are at.

GinSoaked Wed 02-Jan-13 18:24:34

Well, I survived work and have our ivf follow up appt booked, after much wrangling with the bloody clinic. Their admin does my head in. If I was that difficult with the public at work, I'd be sacked!

Welcome funny. I'm another wedding whore. Yours sounds lovely. Do you have a suitably summery dress picked yet?!

art a tiny growing bean with a heartbeat , yay! I know it's much much easier said than done, but try not to worry love. Sounds like everything is perfect so far. So many of my friends had no symptoms or bumps even at 12 weeks!

Good luck with the move pout! Yes, the Simpsons like place was where we were arguing about waterproofs walking. I kept seeing people with a big and small dog and wondering if they were you. Good luck tomoz! I was literally shitting myself before some of my appointments, but you do quickly get used to them.

Sound like you are doing amazingly joy. I'm super impressed. It sounds v intensive. You're on 3 kinds of drugs?! I couldnt cope with the powder ones you have to mix up. I also couldnt inject myself! Do keep us posted. And I'll be really interested to hear what the actual final cost is <wonders if I could sell our car to fund a cycle, I hate the car >

viv grin at dogging. Dave has suggested toy boys as a cheaper alternative to donor sperm.

euro I was trying to work out if I did the FET next cycle if I'd be at the clinic at the same time as you, but I think I'm half a cycle behind you. Probably for the best - you'd see me fuming at reception staff.

Hi freedom. Sorry the drugs are still having bad side effects.

Waves to nao, madness and rabbit. I'm ver ver impressed at your sewing machine skills.

buz I'd have used DS for the last ivf, if Dave had been up for it, so totally understand the DE thing. mrsd I think you asked how he was about it? He's surprisingly fine with it and says he thinks upbringing is more important then genes. He did refuse when I suggested asking his brother for a specimen though! I'm not sure he sees a distinction tween DS and adoption...

mrsd hope you are ok. Do you have a lap date? sar I'm thinking of you and your upcoming lap.

cosmos hope you are doing ok.

Waves to the lovely lurking princess and all I've missed on the other page.

The year of the snake reminded me of pouts snakes in prams. You know it's gonna happen ladies...

viviennewestwould Wed 02-Jan-13 18:52:48

Bloody hell, it's a good job you are all stimulating writers, your posts are so long! Naokosan and Artemis I'd like to thank you for your kind and encouraging words. When you've been through recovery there is a strange feeling of 'well, I've done that..now what?' Shouldn't I be achieving Great Things? Don't I now have the power to have anything my heart desires? The answer is no, and I've never felt quite so powerless than since trying for a baby. I do feel slightly more resigned now I'm at the 12 month stage, though. Artemis, I know of six women on mumsnet, including you, who are currently pregnant and only one of you is not spotting. Everyone seems to be going through exactly the same thing and I know that isn't a direct comfort to you personally but it shows just how common this phenomenon is. Pout, thanks for the welcome and I do hope your IVF appointment tomorrow is hugely positive.

Well, I've just returned from the cinema to see The Impossible where I could not take my eyes off Naomi Watts' pointless wig. I can only assume that, as she was spending four months filming in turbulent waters she wore a syrup to protect her glorious Hollywood thatch. Bored and in need of a shit I went to the toilet and, when I looked down afterwards there was a floating mass of globulous, creamy cm! (Sorry for a) too much information and b) for looking down the toilet after I've had a poo. Freud would understand). Later, as I perused the shockingly manufactured shit in Next I felt horribly queasy (I was, however, staring at a particularly lurid floral top). Now, I'm not one to symptom spot (tender breasts? Ill-fitting bra, love. Period-type cramps? You need a shit, missus) but...

Oh, and DP had TWO fags before going into the cinema. If I'm not pregnant this month him and his Rizzlas can Foxtrot Oscar.

buzzybee123 Wed 02-Jan-13 18:54:03

evening ladies, sorry if this sounds garbled but I'm on the new migraine medication which makes me feel 'quite peculiar' will see GP in a coup;le of weeks about it hmm

art can understand you concern, but really one day at a time, mini art is doing well smile you could have a private scan in a couple of weeks, not sure why woman feel a great need to discuss their MS confused its a bit sad really.

pout good luck for tomorrow, it might feel a bit overwhelming but just remember you are one step closer to your baby smile

joy I agree with euro that is intense, don't really know how I would fit that in with my job to be honest, there isn't really anywhere I could shoot up hmm I am impressed with hopw you are managing it all

sj welcome

free I would have said 'really why did I never think of that' and then rolled my eyes, although would have done it after she had finished with my hair, my lovely colleague said she bought me some nice bath salts as she feels I need to be relaxed for IVF smile

euro sorry mr euro isn't helping, it took Barry along time to get into looking stuff up himself, I have to admit he does say some odd things to me.

gin glad you have finally got your appointment. Is it soon.

well Kayla had her first jab today, the vet is lucky to still be alive grin actually she was quite good accept for the hissing. Work was ok today, just left to my own devices which I like although my patients are very demanding for therapy
q###################8wwa-9

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 19:01:41

Was that end contribution from Kayla, buzzy?

Gin Next AF is due around mid-Jan, so I will probably be going for a scan in the second half of the month and EC close to the end of the month. What about you?

buzzybee123 Wed 02-Jan-13 19:01:59

ooops that was the cat sitting on my keyboard, at least she didn't delete with her furry backside

anyway Barry and I have had a chat and we have discussed our finances, we can really only do one lot of IVF so have decided to go for DE so hopefully we will do that in April/May. It would be nice to try with my own but I feel if I'm going to give it a shot its best to go with the strongest option, we've both had a few tears, mine is mainly do to the massive drop in hormones, I felt fine last hmm. I feel a bit relieved that we have reached a decision, I'm also going to start looking into adoption too. No time like the present to get on with things smile

well Barry is telling á

buzzybee123 Wed 02-Jan-13 19:02:36

sorry cat again, I give up, dinner is ready grin

EuroShagmore Wed 02-Jan-13 19:19:18

Kayla is clearly a big fan of MN wink

drizz I found more about the sperm dna frag stuff here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20323789

And I wasn't far off remembering something about a silly named test! There is a link in that article to a clinic that has developed the "SpermComet" test....

rabbitonthemoon Wed 02-Jan-13 21:00:32

Bah humbug to being back at work sad I just want to be at home making things. Not a name checky post as I'm getting an early night, not been sleeping well with back to work/ttc thoughts. But massive wave to everyone and proper post soon. Art try not to worry, I heard spotting at 8ish weeks and twelve ish weeks or when your period should have been due is common, and in general it seems to happen ever such a lot. Love to you. Joyce I'm finding your posts v helpful and thinking of you. And euro, what is the plan if you do find sperm fragmentation? Does it just mean you're stuffed?

rabbitonthemoon Wed 02-Jan-13 21:01:43

God one born every minute is on, where's my remote!? They say there's a baby boom..not from where I'm sitting angry

joycep Wed 02-Jan-13 21:11:18

Rabbit - I found Junior on Sky - a pregnant man, that's all I need!
If there is sperm frag, you aren't stuffed - could be a sign of infection and can be brought down quite considerably.

buzzybee123 Wed 02-Jan-13 21:13:23

we're watching Africa on BBC 1 much more interesting smile

freedom2011 Wed 02-Jan-13 22:32:28

pout Good luck with the IVF appointment and tell all about it. I will be taking careful notes.

arte A heartbeat. smile That's so great. I am sending you positive vibes for a sticky bean.

buzzy hahaha. Tbh, I think there might have been some transference going on. She starting saying, see look at me, I am 31, if I don't have a child, so be it. And then her teenage assistent says - yes, but boss, if someone really yearns for a child. And the hairdresser snapped - get on with sweeping the floor girl.

I can feel ERTD approaching. Stay away you misery bringer.

Nao strategies for coping, this is cheesy, but here goes
- I regularly count ten great things about my life for which I am grateful. Like, I live in a safe country. My legs work. My DH is great. I eat well. It doesn't always work, but it means I am positive more often, which means I feel like sex more often.
- I try and do lots of things I wouldn't feel comfortable doing if pregnant, or able to do so easily/spontaneously if I had a baby or kids to take care off. Nights out with mates, active holidays, staying up late, eating trash, doing nice things with DH.

freedom2011 Wed 02-Jan-13 22:46:26

I am such a wally - my coping strategies were for SJ not Nao sorry. Although you know, Nao if it helps you, great smile

'night everybody.

sjhoping Wed 02-Jan-13 22:47:10

Hi everyone,

Well i was back at work today after xmas and new year celebrations. Got double time so thats a bonus. Has anyone thought about adoption? I think ive resigned to fact ill never have my own children, i have a "feeling" and seriously considering this.

"Euro" thanks. I see from all your posts im totally clueless on everything. I wish i had done a lot more research sooner. What is CD? I hope you get your baby soon.

"Vivienne" what is DP? Lol too many acronyms and i really have no idea lol.

Hi "Naokosan" waves

Hi "Pout"

"Joy" Thanks i just have a big feeling its not going to happen. Ive not yet but we are going to register to a local doctor so we can go and get poked and prodded asap with a little exaggeration on how long we have been trying. Ive had a look at all the tests they can perform and im not looking forward to it. Our relationship is very strong and im just worried " the blame" on me or him that will be placed will cause a strain.

Thank you to everyone for being so welcoming :-)

Sj xx

Thatssofunny Wed 02-Jan-13 23:06:19

Gin Haven't got a dress, yet. Went looking for one with a friend a few weeks ago...and was told I looked like a rabbit in headlights. I absolutely hate wearing dresses. Took about an hour of trying on different ones and giving her looks saying "Are you bloody serious??", before we found something I felt a bit happier with. Looked around online for some as well and I do know what kind of style I want (too much fabric on most of them...I have no intention of being a princess at a fairytale wedding). It shouldn't be too much of an issue to get one closer to the date, since I'm not aiming for some designer thingy, that has been changed to fit me perfectly. Other consideration that makes me want to wait at the moment is that I'm still hoping to get pregnant before the wedding, so I don't want to get one and then not fit into it. I'd be about 32 weeks on my wedding day, should it happen in the next cycle. Perhaps that's a bit silly,...but still. blush

sjhoping Have you thought about having a surrogate, instead of adopting? Although I'm not quite sure how this works here in the UK. I've considered adoption from quite a young age (around 16), because one of my best friends grew up in foster care. It's never been instead of having biological children, though,...more in addition to them. DP would be happy with it, too. I'm just slightly worried about adopting a slightly older child into a bilingual family situation. hmm

Hello, can I join you all?

Been a lurker for a couple of months and just passed the 1 year TTC anniversary last month sad

My short story is –
me, 30, irregular cycles (26-45 days), suspected PCOS, referred for scans but found no cysts or blockages (sounds silly but somehow that made it harder to understand!)
DH, 34, variocele (told this doesn’t affect anything!?) and SA with a count of only 2 million sad

Doc referred us last month to the local Fertility Clinic – just waiting for our letter now!

I like the coping strategies freedom – every tip and bit of advice helps make each day easier smile

Belated Happy New Year wishes to everyone as well wine smile

rabbitonthemoon Thu 03-Jan-13 07:55:52

Running in to give pout a massive squeeze for today. You can do it! Big luffs, come and tell us how it went.

GinSoaked Thu 03-Jan-13 08:52:52

Giving pout a big hug this morning too. If I can do it and I'm a wimp extraordinaire, you certainly can!

Welcome penguin. Your dh's SA sounds similar to my dh's. Will he be seeing an urologist? I think they can try to fix varioceles?!

funny yay to having to find a pregnancy wedding dress smile I do wear dresses a fair bit and still found wedding dress shopping pretty freaky. Oh and I know of a bilingual couple who recently adopted.

Welcome sj. Think I forgot to say hello before. I think we may well end up adopting. It's certainly our back up option for once all the treatment has bankrupted the in laws us.

euro if they let us do the FET next cycle, we'll start around 25 jan, with ET in early - mid feb. My last cycle was a bit longer than normal, so it's more difficult to work out dates. Hmm maybe they will make me wait another cycle until back to normal post ivf... Our appt is on the 15th Jan though, so we may still bump into you!

Big big hugs buzz. You and Barry have made a very brave and pragmatic decision. Sorry to hear about the tears, but hope you feel better for having made the decision. And make sure you go somewhere where you get loads of eggs for your money.

rabbits I can't even watch the OBEM adverts. They make me hiss and want to wail!

I am not enjoying being back at work, particularly the getting up in the morning thing. Roll on Saturday...

mrsden Thu 03-Jan-13 09:10:38

Good luck today pout. Also, good luck with the packing up. Did you find somewhere to move to then?

Welcome penguin, funny and sj. Penguin - id ask for your dh to be referred to a urologist, it seems like a bit of a coincidence for him to have varioceles and low count. I think varioceles can be treated.

I'm not really sure I have any real coping strategies. The year mark was probably my lowest point because you realise then that something must be wrong. Having said that quite a few people on this thread did conceive around that time so for some it does just take a bit longer. I like to have holidays planned, and to do things spontaneously that I couldn't do if pregnant or had kids. I avoid pregnant friends if I'm feeling low, which sometimes makes me feel guilty but it's all about self preservation.

I'm sorry you had a low new year feeling euro. It is a hard time, all about being reflective and I had to endure lots of friends saying that 2012 was amazing for them, whereas it was rubbish for me.

We're supposed to be seeing the doctor tomorrow to get our referral to the clinic that will do the lap. I can't plan my treatment this year until I know when that will happen but I'm thinking lap, then not sure how long I need to recover before starting ivf. I'd really like to get two rounds of ivf in this year. Gin - is there a set time they say to wait between cycles?

Joy, did the clinic tell you about the drinking milk and water?

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 10:17:36

sj CD = cycle day (another one that gets used a lot on these boards is dpo = days past ovulation).

Thatso I hated wedding dress shop. Fussy old women wearing white gloves dressing me in princess dresses. Bleugh. I'd actually decided to just go with an evening dress when I found a wedding dress dept in House of Fraser, tucked away behind the evening dresses. I wandered in without an appointment and found a very simple silk sheath and went for that.

pout I hope it all went well today. I have been thinking of you.

frozen welcome. I seem to have borderline PCOS (I have some but not all of the symptoms and seem to ovulate regardless). Eating a sensible diet without too many simple carbs and sugary things (i.e. fairly low GI) and acu seem to have help regularise my cycles considerably. How did your husband find out about the variocele?

Gin it looks like you will be just after me then. We have an appointment next week, but I can't remember what it is for! We've had the initial consultation and fertility MOT thingy. Maybe it's to go over the consent forms?

mrsd I think most clinics like you to wait 2-3 cycles between IVF cycles, to give your body a chance to recover from the drugs. One advantage of what I am doing (natural iVF) is that you can do it in consecutive cycles if you want as it is much less taxing on the body. I think we will do one cycle, then use the one IUI cycle we have left already paid for and then another one. If I'm not cracking up by that point, we will see where we are!

mrsden Thu 03-Jan-13 10:41:02

Euro, Do you take any drugs at all with the natural ivf? Im really not looking forward to the drug side of ivf, I hate taking painkillers for a headache.

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 11:05:37

Apparently, you usually take a trigger shot (HCG injection) to help them time egg collection, and sometimes Create uses a form of ibruprofen to block ovulation if it looks like it is going to happen too early. They then offer you the progesterone suppositories like in full IVF during the 2ww. So it's not completely drug free, but much lighter than full IVF as there is no downregging or stimming.

I also hate taking painkillers, etc. The only drugs I embrace are caffeine and alcohol!

mrsden Thu 03-Jan-13 11:07:58

Sounds much easier on the body than standard ivf. I guess it's only suitable for women without ovulatory problems? So, do they only collect one egg then?

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 11:27:13

Yes, you need to produce the egg yourself, or there is nothing for them to collect.

They just collect the mature egg that you produce yourself, usually just the one (I know that one one of my 5 monitored cycles I had two mature follies, so some months I produce more than one (unsurprising as there are twins on both sides of my family)). They also offer something called in-vitro maturation, where they take immature eggs at the same time and mature them in the lab, but we are not going for that, at least at first.

mrsden Thu 03-Jan-13 11:58:15

I don't think it would be suitable for us then, I don't always ovulate. I'm not sure if this might be related to the damaged tube thing or if it's a completely separate issue. I feel like I'm trying to go for a record on the number of infertility problems a couple can have, ovulation problem - check, tube issue - check, male factor - check. We will also need as many eggs as possible to give dh sperm a chance. I'm not convinced they will have much fertilisation power.

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 12:28:50

That's the disadvantage - if the egg is a dud one, that's it for that month.

I don't think you actually need to ovulate as such, just produce a mature follie (I know some people do that but it doesn't pop out). But it wouldn't work for you if you didn't produce the follie.

You're in the opposite position to me - I'm still waiting to find one bloody problem! I do find the not knowing the cause incredibly difficult psychologically.

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 12:45:32

Welcome, Penguin thanks

I've just received my day 21 progesterone result over the phone: 119.4!!

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 12:58:18

You've definitely laid an egg then! (Possibly two!)

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 13:01:04

Yes, Euro! According to the scans I've been laying two every month since being on Clomid (this is my third cycle). Does evidence of two mature follicles guarantee two eggs are released? Mine have all measured between 21 and 26mm.

freedom2011 Thu 03-Jan-13 13:13:31

gosh - well done viv on the mega eggs. Mine never get that big.

today, in a blip in my usual happiness, I asked DH if we should perhaps have a talk about adoption, you know, would it be for us, would we be good adopters. He said No. I explained that I felt sad about the whole thing and his not even engaging in a conversation made me feel like another hope crushed. Then he said, it's a hard topic - the whole baby and fertility thing and he's not interested in talking about it. He's not keen on adoption. He's not keen on IUI or IVF but going along with it. He doesn't want to talk about it. In typical cliche way, sometimes, I feel like I need to talk about it. And I cried I can't believe I actually went and lay on my bed and cried like a big wimp. Not in a manipulative-I-am-going-to-cry-and-force-you-to-have-a-conversation way but actually, I am gutted, I am pre-menstrual, and feeling hopeless and alone today. Sorry that is not positive at all.

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 13:57:57

Bloody hell, Freedom, I am so cross on your behalf I am about to go and have a cry myself. It must feel like an horrendous betrayal to hear such indifference from your other half. I say 'betrayal' because this ttc journey is fucking hard enough with two of you pulling together and sharing the dreams and the heartache and disappointments. I can't imagine being left alone with my questions and 'what ifs'. Could he be one of those men who feels his very masculinity is being questioned through this journey? Some blokes are awfully protective of their (imagined) threatened sexual identity when fertility becomes an issue. Adoption can seem like a huge arrow to a town called Failure for some of these men.

You'll have to excuse me, however, for I have very little time for men who don't do exactly as I say when it comes to helping me to fulfill my dream of holding a child in my arms. I expect 100% support and commitment from my DP on this journey - right until the bitter end - otherwise, what the fuck is he doing in my bed and in my life?

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 14:05:07

You can tell I'm still smarting from the two pre-cinema fags he smoked yesterday, right? blush

freedom2011 Thu 03-Jan-13 14:19:25

yes viv I can tell smile
I can't force the conversation however as I will end up monologuing and getting even more wound up at his failure to say anything at all. It's good there is this thread as RL is rather short on people to talk to.

so what is next for you then now it looks like you have produced some mega eggs?

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 16:04:42

Oh, Freedom, I've produced two of these 'mega eggs' since starting Clomid (this is my 3rd cycle) and no BFP yet. I remember being told during my first cycle that two juicy big eggs were about to be released and I skipped all the way home fantasising about twins. If only ovulation guaranteed a pregnancy! My period is due on Sunday and I have no reason whatsoever to believe this month will be any different from the other ten since my miscarriage. However, my temperature is still high (which is unusual for me at 11DPO - it is usually making a slight downward trajectory) and the timing and frequency of sex this month was the best it has been since I fell pregnant in January. I can't help feeling hopeful..[silly bitch emoticon]

CritterPants Thu 03-Jan-13 16:06:03

Hello everyone - just popping in to say hi - just got back from a week without internet which was actually really lovely. Have had a read back - welcome to the newbies and hand hold to joy today.

joy, sorry the rose oil isn't doing the job - one more (expensive) thing to recommend from me for dry skin (I am old alligator chops and also love this kind of pampering crap) is the Eve Lom TLC cream - it is mega thick, almost like Sudocrem, but is the most moisturising cream I have ever found - as good if not better than Creme de la Mer which is obviously ridiculously expensive but which I've also tried a pot of.

art I hope you are ok - a heartbeat is great news. I am thinking of you and your little bean.

lemon I am so sorry that this IUI didn't work but glad you are feeling reasonably ok. Progesterone is nasty stuff for the mood and it's good you're feeling like yourself. Onwards and upwards.

rabbit I knitted a raspberry pink scarf with pom poms over Christmas and thought of you! My sister made me a tea cosy and a tablecloth, both gorgeous, and was loving getting out the old sewing machine. It felt great to make stuff - so relaxing and definitely a great anti-ttc woe strategy. Loved your post and agreed with every bit of it. My husband's little cousin had a target of 60 books last year - I'm hoping for 40. I am a member of Goodreads but haven't really done anything with it - maybe I should start!

euro good luck for your natural cycle my love. Hope you're feeling better and sorry New Year was miserable. I think it is just naturally a rough time of year - taking stock and all that - especially the bit between Christmas and the 31st when everything is so quiet and it's easy to feel melancholy about things that haven't happened in the past year. 2013 will be a good year for you.

buzz lovely that you're being so cheerful. I am sure that moving to donor eggs must feel bittersweet, but I am as always in awe of your beautiful, sunny, positive attitude. You are a true hero.

welcome vivienne, sj and hello again freedom, I remember you - sorry you've had such a crappy time.

Waves to naoko. Japanese connection? My mum sent me for classes in the 80s for a couple of years when I was about eight, one of my uncles was married to a Japanese woman at the time and I had a Japanese pen pal. It was around the time when everyone thought Japan would be the new China. Also, my mother was a pushy hothouser and I was a little nerdy knowitall geek blush.

gin how was the bouche de noel? Sounds heavenly! Long walks and fresh air sound like just the thing.

mrsd I'm so glad you had a nice weekend with your husband - he sounds like a really wonderful man. Did you say when you will start the IVF process? You've had a lot of knocks over the past few weeks and I am so glad - and impressed - that you're coping so well.

Hello princess, warms my cockles that all is going so well. How was the Hobbit? Worth seeing?

doll are you back yet? <prods with stick>

All well here, holiday was utterly blissful - lots of reading, playing board games, cooking and being silly with friends and family, and I got my period (woot!) which was awesome, first natural one since 2005, hurrah! My family toasted its return with duty free champagne blush. My goodness, I'd forgotten what real periods were like. They don't mess around. Cramps up the wazoo but I was like - 'bring it on' grin. Now on CD6 smile and feeling very cheerful, although if I do ovulate again, it probably won't be for at least a couple of weeks. This feels like a complete fresh start - it's as though this is my first cycle (which of course in a way it is) even though we've been 'trying' (ie off birth control) since early 2011. Happy new year everyone, and waves to everyone I've missed.

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 16:51:01

The first natural period since 2005 is definitely worth some duty free champers, Critter! Does that mean you will put back your planned IVF and try naturally for a bit? I'm glad you had a lovely relaxing break. You are so right about the time between Xmas and new year. I felt a bit neglected as all my friends were off taking their kids to see the grandparents or to the panto and it's a time when in the past we would have seen one another. I'm better now through, if not entirely thrilled to be back at work!

Viv great egg laying!

akuabadoll Thu 03-Jan-13 17:52:47

critter hello, you. Congrats on the period, toasted as well grin I'm packing for return tomorrow. Loving your Japanese connection comments. I've had internet but not the time/ space to write somehow. New Year's morning brought my period (untoasted). Onwards. That's the ironic post- IVF diff out the way.
art sorry you have been feeling stressed but wonderful news on the scan. Keep going love. Lovely to see you back freedom sorry though about your hair situation and the mute bloke nastiness.
I'm feeling for euro buzzy gin and everyone else back at work. i've been back in my work email properly these last two days. Sigh.
Take an extra hand hold joy
Thinking of you all rabbit pout mrsden ...upset child, melt down situation...sorry... x

CritterPants Thu 03-Jan-13 18:17:10

Euro I will be trying naturally for a bit, as it seems worth going things a shot now that the old ovaries have creaked into action. I feel much happier than I did a year ago and I also feel like its ok if I have to wait for longer - I don't have that horrible urgency that I had in the summer and autumn.I don't feel frightened of ivf any more, if I end up going down that path then so be it. Being back at work sucks I agree - glad it is Thursday!

Doll so lovely to hear from you. Sorry af arrived. Do you have any thoughts on when you'd go for round two? In a few cycles, after your body has had a chance to recover?

Pout was your appointment today? Hope it went ok.

akuabadoll Thu 03-Jan-13 18:38:18

Critter Im not sure that will wait. Had it not been for Christmas then I might have done back to back. I cant turn the page but think it was euro who mentioned a few cycles to recovery, I'm not sure if this 'recovery' is said to impact the success of future cycles though, I havent heard so. Anyone? I didn't and don't feel like I had anything to recovery from really. I do have a bit of a concern over the levels of booze and sugar I have allowed post IVF then Christmas, I didnt do perfect prep last time but this is just pathetic. I've had it in the back of my head but not done anything about it, just could bring myself to... blush

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 18:52:47

What's the script with sugar?

akuabadoll Thu 03-Jan-13 18:58:46

viv the basic rule with IVF prep is suck the enjoy out of life just in case it might help wink

akuabadoll Thu 03-Jan-13 19:01:47

or even the joy..... confused

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 19:02:46

Akua grin Seriously though, I gave up alcohol and cigarettes...I don't think I could fucking cope without Wispa Golds and fruit Polos sad

CritterPants Thu 03-Jan-13 19:41:07

doll my cycles returned after an autumn of defiantly scoffing crisps, ice cream, drinking and doing almost no exercise (usually I'm quite spry and always hopping about, doing Pilates or running or something). So I don't know about the whole don't overindulge thing. I just got sick of the whole business and went on a bit of an anti-health binge. I know it's different for different people though - I am someone who leans towards the holier than thou smug healthy mode so it was quite liberating for me to say sod it to the brown diet stuff, trying to be even healthier made me miserable. But look at princess, she did amazingly on the brown diet. I've heard about the waiting a few cycles thing from the point of view of taking a sort of emotional vacation from it all, but if you feel ok emotionally and physically, I don't see why you shouldn't go for it.

viv I do love wispa golds. But not as much as salt n vinegar crisps grin.

freedom2011 Thu 03-Jan-13 20:00:33

critterpants I am strangely delighted at the thought of you getting your first period since 2005. hooray!

CritterPants Thu 03-Jan-13 20:12:00

Aw thanks freedom. I am just thrilled, it's so awesome to feel like everything has cranked into gear and is working again - especially as the ivf doc said they wouldn't. I had got quite despondent about it all. Even if I don't get pregnant, it's nice to feel everything is working as it should in my undercarriage.

EuroShagmore Thu 03-Jan-13 20:32:38

doll I think it's normal here to leave a couple of cycles in between IVF attempts. I must have read that on a ttc board somewhere.

I can't be arsed with pre-IVF self-deprivation. I gave up caffeine and alcohol for several cycles (including the cancelled IVF one) last year. What good did it do? I'm fairly healthy anyway - I exercise, eat a fair amount of fruit and veg, drink a modest amount, don't smoke. So I plan to carry on as I am.

GinSoaked Thu 03-Jan-13 20:51:25

Just popping in quickly to say our consultant told us we had to wait 3 months between ivf cycles. Not sure why, but my ovaries did/do feel extra pingy in the months afterwards and my first post ivf cycle was longer than normal both times.

Yay for your period critter. So that means you def did ov when you thought?! Am excited for you and hoping your ovaries continue to play ball (hmm a bad phrase maybe for a ttc forum).

buzzybee123 Thu 03-Jan-13 20:54:03

pout I hope all went well for you today and wasn't awful and confusing

penquin welcome

freedom they are sensible coping strategies, the 10 things to be grateful for is what they teach you in life coaching, I'm sorry DH is having trouble expressing his thoughts and feelings about it all, perhaps if he wrote it down, might be easier than actually saying it. Just because he says no to adoption now doesn't mean he will think like that in the future. Some people think I'm mad when I say this but early last year I asked Barry about adoption and he said he didn't think he could really love an adopted child etc etc, we then got a cat and he found his nurturing side and became more open to the idea and now is quite keen on adoption. It might just all feel too much for him to deal with, it obviously doesn't help you, talk to us until he is ready.

funny I got my wedding dress from Phase Eight, they do simple wedding dresses, I went John Lewis and tried them on with a friend, no appointments needed and no fussing shop assistance telling you how beautiful you look in every one smile euro my friend had a beautiful evening dress for her wedding too.

hoping I think a few of us have thought about adoption, I'm hoping to look into it a bit more very soon smile

gin thank you I feel we have no choice but to deal with it and get on. I'm still hoping we will do it ourselves hmm

mrsd I hope all goes well tomorrow for you, <little hand squeeze>

joy hope the shooting up is going well grin I think mrsd asked about the milk and water, I was wondering about that too

critter WAHOO well done on having your period, you must be pleased, I too feel champers is the best way to celebrate. Glad you are feeling happier. I too had Japanese pen pals when I was younger, I still have some of the little things they sent me grin

doll sorry Af showed up, mine started on new years too hmm well heavy spotting, hope you have a good trip back.

rabbit thank you for thinking of me smile

viviennewestwould Thu 03-Jan-13 21:02:11

I quit caffeine after reading an article in the Journal of Human Reproduction which said that tests had shown that the equivalent of three cups of coffee per day can slow down the muscles of the fallopian tubes to such a degree that a fertilised egg cannot travel successfully to the womb. The test was done on mice which have the closest reproductive system known to ours. Still scared the shit out of me. I was drinking gallons of energy drink throughout the day whilst weight training and running. I went cold turkey and now I drink nothing with caffeine in. I'll let you know how that goes hmm

ThatWayMadnessLies Thu 03-Jan-13 21:34:14

Evening ladies,

Feeling the slight desperation of my holiday coming to an end...... Not back to work until Monday but have that niggly feeling that there is too much to do as soon as I go back. Shall stick my head in the sand for a few more days and avoid the urge to log on to email. I can't sort anything out until Monday so must let it go........

funny I am all for small simple weddings. Ours wasn't very big, we only had about 45 people including ourselves and that was plenty big enough. I did get a wedding dress but it was the most un-weddingy wedding dress that I tried on. Light and floaty and perfect for an outdoor ceremony and all of the ceilidh dancing to follow. I would have been miserable after about half an hour in a corset confused. My sister in law went to Harvey nicks and bought an evening gown. It was grey and she looked amazing smile.

naoko there are a few of us who are north of the border. I love it that things are closed for two days after Hogmanay - the scots need longer to recover from the festivities grin. Being at the stage that you're at can be daunting. Ringing the doctor and getting the ball rolling won't hurt. If you get pregnant in the meantime, brill! I hope that you have a good GP.

art I hope that things are feeling calmer today. Your little bean has quite the cheerleading squad on here smile. Thanks for the reassurance about my mood altering drug regime. Unfortunately I may have to be downregging for 3 to 4 months before switching to stimming drugs so need some good coping strategies in the meantime confused.

Happy travelling doll

Woohoo critter for the resumption of normal cycles!!!!! Definitely with you on giving things a go for a while. You'll be feeling so much more positive and doesn't everyone tell us that it's all down to the attitude? wink

joy are you ever not in the loo with all that milk and water? I hate drinking milk so would find that one really hard. I think that I get enough calcium elsewhere but just can't face drinking cold milk on its own. Given everything else I've put myself through to get pregnant though I don't suppose that milk is a very big ask though.

pout hope you're ok and today went well.

Joining the adoption discussion, we have started talking about it here. Having friends who are just coming to the end of the process helps. Right now we're talking about it as an option for having a second child, but with the understanding that we will pursue it seriously if ivf doesn't work.

Waves to rabbit euro mrsden lemon gin freedom penguin and everyone else that I know I've forgotten. Must step away from MN.....

Hello all – thank you for such a warm welcome!

Gin and Mrsden– Our local GP didn’t mention anything about fixing varioceles but I’ve googled a bit a home and it seems like it might be something worth trying. My feeling is that the variocele must be linked somehow to the low count. When we get our appointment with the FS (fertility specialist? hope I’ve got the right acronym!?), It’ll definitely be on my list of questions to ask.

Euro – your borderline PCOS sounds the same as mine, I have some of the symptoms but not the actual polycystic ovaries and even though my cycles are irregular, I do seem to ovulate each time (albeit on different cd’s each time). I’ve read the Collette Harris books and try to follow a healthy-ish low GI diet. Unfortunately, the office I work in seems to have birthdays and celebrations with cakes and biscuits every week! blush

DH found out about the variocele when he was 18 – he had one testicle which started swelling up and was hard so went to the GP, suspecting testicular cancer. The GP examined him and then sent him to the local maternity unit to have an ultrasound scan (he said he got some funny looks from the pregnant women and their partners!). The doc at the time (in 1996) diagnosed a variocele and said it shouldn’t affect his fertility, but now we’re not so sure... hmm

Viv – well done on the eggs!

Funny – I managed to buy my wedding dress from an Oxfam Bridal Boutique. Me and my 2 bridesmaids had the whole shop to ourselves one Saturday morning while a lovely old lady made us tea and said to try on anything we wanted and don’t worry about the mess. I spent 2 hours like a child with a dressing up box and ended up with a designer dress only worn once (for a catwalk show) for only £150. smile

In comparison, we visited one posh dress shop in Bath for my bridesmaids dresses where, on telling the shop assistant I was getting married in 8 weeks – she exclaimed {with a horrified look} “well, well, we just couldn’t possibly have those dresses ready for you in such a short space of time”. My sister in law, quite straight talking, retorted "well we’re obviously not buying them here then!” and walked out. We then went to BHS where they had two beautiful dresses ready for us in 48 hours grin

Waves to everyone and apologies for the long post!

joycep Fri 04-Jan-13 09:31:51

Madness – going back to work sucks especially after a long break but i’m sure you’ll be fine come Monday. I can’t remember why you have to downreg for so long, will that stop the infection coming back? God you have been through a seriously rotten time. Oh and I go to the loo every 30mins or so!! Milk for some reason makes me gag but you can have it different guises so I have been putting smoothie at the bottom of it and making a milky smoothy and i can stomach that. Cheese and yoghurt goes towards the litre of milk as well. But i’m not sure how to measure that. I have no idea why they tell you to drink milk.
 
Viv – oh my god that progesterone level is fabulous!! I would be feeling hopeful as well. Is your temp still up today?? did you read whether tea is as bad as coffee? I’ve really started limiting the amount i drink.
 
Critter – lovely to have you back and hurrah at getting your periods back. I really have a great feeling for you. Once people who have ovulation issues get it sorted, that tends to get them pregnant fairly quickly. Good luck for month 2! I can’t remember but you had a theory as to what you had that was causing the lack of periods didn’t you? Were you going to eat more or something to get your bmi up – was that you? Thanks for the tip about the Eve Lom TLC cream. Can you get that in UK? I desperately need something. When I had a massage a few months ago, the lady pointed out my skin was really dry on my back and told me it could be a sign of an overactive immune system, so I now do know I have this so I expect it’s something to do with that.
 
Doll – i have been told you should wait around 3 months before your next ivf but I think i mentioned before about my SiL’s friend who has had 7 rounds in just over a year but she is 48 and I guess she didn’t want to hang around. She is 25wks pregnant now.
 
Freedom – i am sorry about the conversation with your other half. It’s so hard when you get nothing back from them. Buzz has some good words of advice and I think men can come round to things so please try not to despair.
 
Penguin – welcome and I am sorry you find yourself here.
 
Sjhoping – no one is to blame in infertility. If you had any other illness you wouldn’t blame each other. Having said that, i do feel very guilty that my husband married a barren and i often apologise to him. But if a friend said to me they felt guilty about infertility, i would tell them not to be so ridiculous but i can’t really practice what i preach!
 
Gin – i am keeping a close eye on costs and will let you know how much the total tots up to. The really expensive bit will be the immunes treatment i think but i think you can say you don’t want to go down that route. The scans actually come within the price of ivf thankfully but the daily blood tests certainly add up. They also require you to have a hysto. I reckon my one cycle will cost the same as your 2 cycles or thereabouts. Some people do try and source their own drugs i think and i think that would save a huge amount of money.
 
Mrsd – yes the clinic tells you to drink all this water and milk. I understand the water thing, it helps with preventing ohss not there is much danger of that with me with my limited supply. Still not sure of the milk. I will find out. They also tell you to eat little and often and eat good proteins like chicken, eggs and nuts etc. I am laying off the refined sugar because apparently the sugar surges can mess with hormones whilst stimming.  
 
Pout – how did yesterday go/?
 
Well my scan this morning showed things are on the move. Phew. Come on ovaries, you can at least provide a few.

EuroShagmore Fri 04-Jan-13 10:16:19

joy You can get the TLC cream in Space NK if you have one of those near you.

I'm glad things are on the move for you!

mrsden Fri 04-Jan-13 10:58:23

Yay for something happening joy. You sound very calm, I'm impressed. How are you finding fitting it around work? I'd be ok with the milk drinking, but I think I'll struggle with the water, I'm going to be in the loo all day and night.

Penguin, can you get dh back to the gp and get him referred to a urologist? There certainly is surgery they can do, but it can depend if the damage is already done. It needs a specalist to assess. Im not in the uk, so it might be different but we found the fertility clinics are not do interested in trying to treat male factor other than pushing for ivf. and the clinc drs are gynae so not that clued up on men!

Viv, I'd be feeling hopeful if I were you. I reckon it might just be a matter of time.

Critter, that's amazing about your period returning, I also think you shoud feel really hopeful. My old gynae said ovulation problems are the easiest to sort and once they're fixed then it's not long until pregnancy, fingers crossed.

Pout, how did you get on yesterday?

Art, how many weeks are you? I read a thread yesterday where someone was 9 weeks and symptoms had vanished, everyone said theirs went around 9 weeks do something to do with the placenta taking over.

Well, this morning we went back to the clinic. We had to wait 45 mins to see our dr. Dh wasn't impressed because he needed to get to work. I'm not sure why it was so busy, I reckon everyone wants to start ivf in the new year. I like looking at all the other couples because they seem so normal. One of the nice things about our clinic is that it also does ante natal care so if I do get pregnant I can stay with them until 36 weeks when I would then get transferred to the place I want to give birth in. It does mean however that there are bumps in the waiting room. But I can assume that these are hard won bumps. Interestingly the three women in there with bumps today all looked to be in their forties so it clearly does work for older women. I use the word older in the loosest sense as I never think of forties being old. Our dr keeps referring to me as young, which at 31 I quite like. When we did get in to the dr, he was very lovely to us and greeted us like old friends. I think he feels a bit sorry for us. He explained everything again. On the ultrasound he said it looked like my right tube is enlarged and he can see pockets of fluid. He is fairly certain this is a damaged tube but he said ultrasound isn't conclusive so I need a lap to diagnose it. He said it would be up to the dr doing the lap to decide what to do it there is a damaged tube. She could remove it or decide to leave it but drain it. He said that the problem wi leaving it is that it is likely to refill with fluid. Also, if we need ivf anyway because of dh then my tubes are redundant, even if I wasn't with dh then a damaged tube is not going to work so he is of the view, and I agree that it's pointless having it. He also said that whilst there is no conclusive evidence, he doesn't think it is good for an embryo or a foetus to be in that environment and at its probably not a long term good health thing for me to have it there either. So, I'm going to be clear with the dr doing the lap that she should remove it if it's damaged. He has tried to get hold of the lap dr but she hasn't called him back so i still don't have a date. Which is very annoying, he said he'd phone me as soon as he's spoken to her. He did say that his number one concern was my health, and his second was getting me pregnant as quickly as possible. That's good to hear.

viviennewestwould Fri 04-Jan-13 11:18:03

Joycep, yes, my progesterone result is, indeed, fabulous at 119.4, however, last month it was 106.8 and the previous month, 71.6. Neither of those cycles resulted in pregnancy. So frustrating. However, todays temp is still as high as all the preceding ones so....The article I read, Joy, included all types of caffeine so, yes, tea. I've been told there's only a small amount of caffeine in chocolate. Is this true? hmm

Mrsden, I don't want to sound cavalier regarding another woman's fallopian tube but I, too, would get rid of that sucker. Your doctor sounds ace. Do you like him? Oh..and I'd like to say 'I love you' for saying that we over-forties are not old grin

Question: should I do a pregnancy test tomorrow (13DPO)? My period is due on Sunday. I don't think I can bear my eleventh BFN but, then again, it's better to know a day early, right? hmm

ThatWayMadnessLies Fri 04-Jan-13 12:14:12

mrsd as someone now missing a tube i can honestly say that i haven't noticed a difference grin I hope you hear from your Dr soon about a date.

joy I'm on the drugs i think because they need to halt the spread of the endo between now and when we try for ivf. they have drained the cyst but couldn't remove it without risking my bowel so this is the best way of ensuring it doesn't fill back up before stimming. will see consultant on Tuesday and ask how they will check that the infection is well and truly cleared up.

Ok. off to do something productive with the day!

mrsden Fri 04-Jan-13 12:32:42

Dr just rang, hes set me up with an appointment on the 15th. So not too long and then hopefully I dont have to wait too long after that for the lap.

Madness, how are you feeling? We can be our own little one tube club. When do you think you'll be ready to try for ivf?

Viv, I'm not a big fan of testing. Mainly because I've never had a bfp and for me the white space is worse than af arriving so I prefer to wait it out. Also, if you test before af is due then you can't really trust the result becAuse it might be positive but be a chemical pregnancy cue much heartache when af turns up, or it might be negative but you secretly think its too early and still have hope. As you might tell I'm a pessimist.

viviennewestwould Fri 04-Jan-13 13:02:04

No, Mrsden, you make perfect logical sense. There is no knowledge to be gained from an early negative, right?

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Fri 04-Jan-13 13:15:02

Well done on the stimming, going everywhere with a huge bag of drugs and also drinking ridiculous amounts joycep. You sound very together!

I've cut out the coffee for this round of IUI to see whether it makes a difference with headaches, as they've arrived, but two days later than last month and not as bad... I was thinking viv if caffeine makes a difference to tubes doing there thing, clearly it only matters between O and implantation. The first of the TWW. Of am I being daft. Your progesterone results sound fab, btw.

So the 15th it is, mrsd. Fast moving (I had a month or so wait before mine). Here's to hoping that the lap-lady can fix lots of it. Difficult time for you though, so I am handholding and keeping everything crossed!

Good luck with work madness, I am sure you'll be okay once you get there on Monday. And also time will go faster, I always find. (But then I do enjoy work!)

How did it go yesterday, pout? Thinking of you!

Also, I am loving the wedding chat and the tails of buying that dress. It is so much fun! Pleased we seem to have a continuous stream of marrying girls on here! Happy memories.

lovesLemonDrizzleCake Fri 04-Jan-13 13:16:21

Oh and viv I second mrsd. Don't test before AF is due. My test-day is 15dpo (as AF comes on 14 dpo usually). Otherwise think of it as peeing over a fiver, it won't tell you much, and thus you could do something much better with that money!

viviennewestwould Fri 04-Jan-13 13:31:06

Quite right, Lemon, and ditto with the thinking around caffeine. Still put the willies up me, though. And I'm not even a mouse.

ThatWayMadnessLies Fri 04-Jan-13 16:29:03

Thanks lemon. I like my work when I'm with the kids, it's just all of the admin and organising that needs to be done. My nicely ordered timetable is also being thrown completely out of sync as well which makes me feel jittery confused. Will be lovely to see all the munchkins though and am expecting some teensy tiny new referrals which will keep me on my toes grin.

I'm feeling alright mrsd. Stomach seems to be settling after coming off the antibs and it's just the hormonal stuff to deal with. Given that I was already finding the whole process emotional I may be attributing more to the drugs than is strictly accurate! I think I would be ready for ivf 2-3 months after the lap but we're hoping to get to the top of the nhs list in 3 to 4 so will wait for that and keep our savings for extra attempts if the first two don't work. if your lap is straightforward I doubt that you'd need to wait too long. Presumably you can find out on the 15th what they recommend. We're always waiting for something aren't we????

viv I don't even have any preg tests in the house anymore. At least a year since I bothered testing. I never believed a bfn until Af arrived so didn't put my mind at ease at all. Fingers crossed for you though.

buzzybee123 Fri 04-Jan-13 16:41:06

joy glad things are moving along smile

mrsd sounds like you've put alot of thought into this, and the 15th is not that far away

pout hope you are ok

medusa I hope you are ok too.

Well thank goodness its the weekend, Barry has decided if the job situation doesn't improve here in the next year then he'll get on with NZ visa smile I have made a plan of action for this year and have already started, so feeling pretty good about this year smile well I better get on with dinner

Thatssofunny Fri 04-Jan-13 18:07:02

So, have been into work yesterday,..and done some work from home today. Mostly ready for Monday,...although,..never feel fully ready, ever. Bit irritating.
Went for a walk on the beach with DP today, and went round "porch spotting" on the way back. We want to add a porch to our front door, to have a space to dump shoes and coats. smile Every time we go for a walk, I think "We live in such a nice place. It's great for kids. ...Just actually need to have some kids now."

Gin, Euro There weren't any old ladies with white gloves, thank goodness. shock That would have made me leave on the spot, I think. Buzzy I've been looking at Phase Eight,...and also at BHS and Debenhams,...could imagine just wearing a nice white summer dress as well. So not fussed with dresses. Madness Your wedding sounds lovely as well. Where did you get married? We will only be 25 in total,...so everyone can sleep at the venue (it's an old mill,..with a stream and a huge field right beside it,..would fit the bouncy castle nicely),...and it will be a three-day long party, so beds are important. Penguin Oxfam might be the only place where my mother would be slightly miffed, if I got the dress from there. She's got some weird and unexplained aversion...hmm

My wedding ring is more of a concern for me at the moment. My grandad died suddenly in September (I was his favourite...loved him to bits,...still start crying every time I think about it...mainly for selfish reasons, because I would have loved for him to meet his great-grandchild and I feel like I've let him down a little), and my nan has given me his wedding ring. We went to the jeweller to ask about ways of incorporating it into my own wedding ring. However, it seems to be quite an issue...and really expensive, because I'd really like to have a ring made of palladium or platinum (I can't wear gold), but thought about having a yellow gold inlay. I'm also not sure I'd really want it melted down. It's got my grandparents' wedding date on the inside...and is nearly 60 years old.

Viv hope the outcome is positive, once you do get around to testing. Fingers crossed.

GinSoaked Fri 04-Jan-13 18:50:09

mrsd our next appointment is on the 15th too! I'm being massively impatient and just want to know if we're FETing or not next cycle. Need to plan my social life! You sound very sorted and I'm pleased that you seem a bit happier with stuff. My clinic keep telling me I'm 'young' at 34! Most ladies look at least mid-late 40s at my clinic too. When my mum was waiting for me during ec, a nurse thought she was there for treatment!I do think that if I was older there'd be less chance of the ohss...

Speaking of which, joy the milk will be for the protein. This helps prevent ohss too, as it does something (binds?) with the toxic things (fluid or proteins?) that cause ohss. Sorry for the crap faux science explanation! You are doing great with it all. At create, they don't even scan you until day 5, so I'm not surprised they haven't seen much.

buzz do tell us all about your year plan. Sounds Intersting!

viv step away from the money burning pee sticks! Having said that, I can't bear the not knowing and I occasionally pee on Internet cheapies. Even though I know we can't really conceive naturally..

madness pleased to hear you are feeling a bit better. I'm sure the hormones will stabilise.

I feel faaaat. I'm half a stone heavier than I was this time last year. I've put on weight after both ivf cycles and eaten too much cake. Didn't someone say a bit of fat is good for pregnancy?! <hopeful face> But my clothes are tight and I don't like it.

GinSoaked Fri 04-Jan-13 18:54:43

X post funny. Your wedding sounds ace. Can I come?! I can't remember where you are based, but Hatton Gardens in londinium are good for jewellery stuff and you can really shop about. If you're not near London, do shop about. MIL had to have a diamond reset and saved herself £150 by using a local place rather than H Samuels.

Right, to the pub smile

buzzybee123 Fri 04-Jan-13 19:36:02

gin I have gained, 3 kilos shock not really a shock to be honest, but one of my plans is to lose 10 kilos by the time we do IVF, other plans are to ditch toxic unhealthy friends/ relationships, do some courses and look into moving to NZ, some DIY nothing really exciting, oh and to start the adoption process just things like that really

funny it is expensive to get jewellery altered here, I had some earrings made out of the diamonds from my old wedding band, I could believe how much they charged when I was suppling the goods, but its actually about making a mould etc that can cost, not the materials used. Have you thought about either wearing on a chain or have the ring made smaller so you can wear it ??

Thatssofunny Fri 04-Jan-13 19:55:14

Gin We live in the South West,...quite far from London. grin Could have a look around Bath, Bristol or Cardiff. We went to a small jewellery shop here, though and will quite probably get both our rings from there.
My ex has already asked whether him and his wife can come to the wedding...because of the bouncy castle. Aehm, no. That's for me to play in with the little ones (we'll have four children there...3-11 years old - can't quite understand why people would want "child free" weddings).

Buzzy I though about having it on a chain, but will need to test for allergies. It's a plain yellow gold ring. I used to have a necklace made of white gold, which I couldn't wear, because I react and get a rash quite quickly (I had really bad eczema as a child...nowadays it usually only returns when I'm really stressed). Not sure about yellow gold, but it's quite a low carat one, so will have several things mixed into it. We thought about having it changed to fit me, but I don't really wear any jewellery and really don't want a yellow gold wedding ring. That's why I thought about having it be the inlay of a platinum or palladium ring. Most rings like that I can find are titanium, though.

viviennewestwould Fri 04-Jan-13 19:56:21

Gin, I would never buy the expensive chemist pregnancy tests, I have approximately six thousand internet cheapies to get through. I'm all alone tomorrow all day as DP goes to watch the football and, if I have another high temp in the morning, I'm not sure I could last the whole day wothout knowing if I'm preggo. I'm already experiencing the blues you feel when you just know you're not pregnant. I don't have any evidence for this, of course, just ten months or relentless disappointment [sigh]

What is OHSS, please?

EuroShagmore Fri 04-Jan-13 20:14:26

Thatso if you fancy a nice white summer dress, have a look at Monsoon. I was tempted by one from there. I also tried on one in Coast. They have a bridal range now and it usually has some nice stuff in it.

Could having your grandad's ring incorporated into your wedding ring make the ceremony rather emotionally fraught?

Gin I'm in a similar position. I put on a pound with each month of steroids and a few more with the IVF drugs. I had been trying to shift it through diet (and had shifted a chunk of it before Xmas), but my acupuncturist has tried everything to get my energy levels up and just can't, so I am thinking I will stop with the calorie counting, eat what I want and step up my exercise to try to top what is there. I hope this will not result in me being enormous! I'm only about half a stone more than I was this time last year, but it is enough to mean that a couple of my dresses and skirts are now tight enough to make me look horribly lumpy. Meh. I hope exercise is the answer!

My boobs feel swollen but I am putting that down to the extra pounds rather than anything else!

rabbitonthemoon Fri 04-Jan-13 20:34:55

Can I just say how much I have despised being back at work?! I want to play instead. Have totally lost track of folks, it's been busy on here.

joy tail preen and loves to you. Boak to milk drinking. Does Ben and Jerrys count? glad that the scan looked good today.

mrsden you sound in good hands and its good that its all happening at a pace. Lots to take in by the sounds of it.

viv I stopped testing at the one year mark. I tested in oct when af was considerably late and I had 17 and then 18 high temps. Got exciting for a short while but came to nothing. I can't bear seeing the white stick, fishing it out the bin, contemplating my own barreness etc. All sounding good for you though? Fingers crossed.

funny I did not get on with fancy wedding dresses. I felt like I looked like a toilet roll dolly. I actually ended up ordering a bridesmaid dress that I loved in ivory. I had a few alterations made, buttons and lining etc and sewn in boobs as I have none grin it was bargainous.

critter hurray for a period! How very exciting. Interesting too that it wasn't a green diet that welcomed it back. I'm a lot easier on myself food wise now and my stomach has really thanked me for it. I feel so positive for you. Are you putting ivf on hold for a bit?

art how you doing?

buzzy liking the plan.

My brain is all fuzzy, I'm very tired and actually feel grotty. I don't sleep very well in the run up to my period, I think the progesterone must make me have crazy restless dreams. I'm 12dpo and spotting a tiny bit (my microscope eye is never wrong) so another month down the pan. Aghhhhh! I realised on Facebook today that the first ten status updates were all overtly baby (my baby is so cute because) /bump (oo Braxton hicks)/child (my childs so clever because) related and felt like a heap of shit. No doubt pmt. But then I saw Nelly enjoying her honeymoon and felt cheered up.

I'm going to properly read thread now. Massive wave to all 10 plussers.

buzzybee123 Fri 04-Jan-13 20:36:24

funny I meant as a just a ring not as your wedding ring, I wear my old engagement ring as a dress ring, interesting that you allergic to gold I'm allergic to all other metal but gold grin white gold has silver mixed in so it has less gold than yellow.
I had a child 'free wedding' and loved it, never once (and I have been married twice) grin did I think something was missing. I had no intention of competing with someones screeching child when people were there to hear us exchange our vows. I have been too many weddings where children have misbehaved. Plus alot of our friends didn't have kids, some still don't. Each to there own

buzzybee123 Fri 04-Jan-13 21:09:50

x posts with rabbit I just looked through my FB only 1 pic of kids others are about houses, pets and holidays I don't think I have many friends with kids or babies hmm

viviennewestwould Fri 04-Jan-13 21:11:35

Rabbit, this is the status I put on my facebook this morning:

'I've decided I'm not going to have kids. I love babies but I'm just not ready for the commitment of uploading that many photos to Facebook.'

Not one of my friends with kids has 'liked' it. I'm laughing my head off.

CritterPants Fri 04-Jan-13 21:27:34

Hi guys

mrsd you sound so amazingly together and calm. Good for you for making a plan, and for what it's worth I think it's the right decision. You should feel bloody proud of yourself for being so courageous about all this. The 15th is just around the corner.

rabbit I am hating being back at work too. Boo hiss to being a grown up again, and yah boo sucks to child-related FB status updates. I was thinking last night that so much of FB is fake. I know there are wonderful things about it - I love keeping in touch with the people I care about - but it's also a real forum for people who are unhappy to display things that aren't reflective of their real lives, IYSWIM.

euro and gin, I am now a staunch proponent of being porkier - I reckon that combined with feeling generally happier about living abroad, it's the key to my returned cycle. But I am not a fan of my jeans being tighter so I do feel your pain. I suppose I'll have to just go shopping grin for a super flattering pair.

joy oh poor you. If your dry skin is all over your body, a really lovely face cream isn't going to do the trick - I'd add in the E45 bath oil that you can get at Boots, or Oilatum, which is the same sort of thing, plus maybe some sort of fish oil capsule, avocados, mackerel, nuts, that sort of thing, to get some oils in your diet. Also, I would avoid soap and have a nice wallow in the tub instead. I was the BMI girl, yes - I think it's putting on a couple of pounds, cutting back on exercise and generally feeling less homesick in the US that has all helped bring my periods back.

viv OHSS is ovarian hyper stimulation syndrome - meant to be painful and in some cases quite dangerous - basically your ovaries get really swollen and overstimulated. It's more common in women under 35 and PCOSers, apparently.

buzzy that's exciting that you're thinking of going back to NZ - gosh, a big move for you. I had two weddings blush a wedding in the US and a big party in the UK. At the party there were lots of kids and they screamed blue murder through the speeches but I must say that they did look very cute in the photos. grin

madness I have been meaning to send you a link to this blog - the girl was downregging for years due to severe endo. She now has two beautiful twin girls. She's an amazing photographer whose blog I used to read all the time when I was engaged four years ago.

lemon are you doing another IUI round this month?

frozen I love your bridesmaid dress story! smile

thatso The west country is gorgeous, and how nice to live so close to a beach! I would just keep your grandfather's ring as it is, and not have it melted down, especially if it is engraved inside. You could wear it on a (very strong) chain around your neck, or sew it (very very very securely) into a little pocket inside your wedding dress for the day of the ceremony.

Hurrah that it is the weekend! We are having friends over for dinner instead of going out, all part of 'Project Scrooge', our annual post-Christmas economy drive. grin I will be cracking open the duty free Baileys after dinner and browbeating them into playing Bananagrams with me. Hope you've all got lovely things planned.

buzzybee123 Fri 04-Jan-13 21:33:26

viv I did grin at your fb status.

critter my two weddings were to different men wink enjoy your baileys and your freinds

viviennewestwould Fri 04-Jan-13 21:35:08

Thanks, Critter. I am now worried that my day 21 progesterone score (119.4) is an indicator of OHSS confused

EuroShagmore Fri 04-Jan-13 22:06:40

viv it won't be. If you had OHSS, you would know about it! I think I had a very mild case on my last Letrozole cycle (I say "I think" because it arose on Saturday morning and by the time I was scanned on Monday afternoon I had ovulated and was feeling better). symptoms

I only had a very mild case and I certainly knew all about it.

PS - love the FB update!

Critter you might be right that a few extra pounds have helped to kickstart things for you. I'm glad everything seems to be in working order now!

rabbitonthemoon Fri 04-Jan-13 22:27:40

critter your posts are always so sunshiny. Apologies to all for my rather grumptastic sloppy effort earlier! I do loves you all. Maybe dry January was a poor plan!

viviennewestwould Sat 05-Jan-13 07:12:55

BFN. How can my temps be even higher at 13DPO and it be a BFN? I am royally fucked off. I can not cope with this any more. I am 41 and running out of time..

Now, excuse me while I fuck off and go and repeat the word c**t until I feel a bit better sad

rabbitonthemoon Sat 05-Jan-13 08:01:28

Sorry about the bfn viv be kind to yourself today.

joycep Sat 05-Jan-13 08:15:08

Viv - 13dpo can be too early. I know I was 17dpo before I got a positive. The show isn't over until the witch appears and high temps are a good sign. Haha at your FB status.

Critter- thank you so much for all your brilliant tips on dry skin. I did try rubbing myself in olive oil last year which was quite good on the old granny legs but disastrous when I rubbed it into my hair! But good tips to start eating all those foods. Anyway so pleased about your ovaries , I have a great feeling for 2013 for you.

Rabbit - so sorry about FB updates. Hideous things. One day though you will be able to post baby pics up and this will be a distant memory.

Madness - I hope these next few months pass by quickly for you.

Mrsd - glad the appt went ok an the 15th is not too long a wait. I would feel the same way as you (I know easy for me to say) and you are being very pragmatic. Also Having a lap will probably make you calmer and more confident when it comes to ivf. Just having that first general anaestetheyic and experiencing what it feel like is kind of a training.ok this is what I have found so I may be speakig bollocks.

So I am currently sitting in my clinic on a drip having ivig treatment. This is something in the past I said I wouldn't do just purely because of the product. But 14 women alone had it yesterday here and they apparently get results from it. Its suppose to bring your natural killer cells down. I am also being put on to aspirin, clexane and dex (a steroid) today. Trimg not to think about it too much as I am prone to anxiety attacks!

EuroShagmore Sat 05-Jan-13 09:13:56

Morning joy. ARGC is really throwing everything at you, isn't it? I'm glad you sound like you are taking it all in your stride.

Viv sorry about the BFN, but it still might be too early. I gave up regular testing ages ago, because I hated seeing negative after negative. It's so hard mentally. I like temping because I get a bit of a dip the day before AF comes usually, which means I get that day to prepare myself for it being all over.

akuabadoll Sat 05-Jan-13 11:59:33

joy your treatment does seem very intensive, good for you with pressing on. Would you like to substitute some other dairy for the milk? I think you mentioned you were not sure how to calculate? Why is the milk advised? For the protein content? If so I can help you substitute. Perhaps there are factors other than protein? Let me know.

hi to everyone. I'm back home now. smile

viviennewestwould Sat 05-Jan-13 12:12:00

Thanks for the tissues, ladies, I really am not coping well today. I went back to bed shortly after the test (we sleep in separate rooms - always have. I won't tolerate snoring) and left DP this note:

'Test negative. Gone back to bed. I can not cope with this any longer and I can't tolerate your fucking selfish smoking, either. Don't wake me up before you go to the football and don't turn the fire off [it's a bastard to light]'
P.s. I absolutely HATE that you are seemingly addicted to energy drinks - more poison probably thwarting our chances of conceiving'.

I just woke up and the house is empty and I am regretting my note already. He is such a marvellous man who is aching as much as I am for this baby. We only ever speak to one another with love and respect and I've been just horrid. Where's the point in laying the blame? I'm pathetic and cruel.

Joycep, did you have a negative result before your positive?

viviennewestwould Sat 05-Jan-13 12:13:32

Joycep, I hope you get great results with today's treatment.

freedom2011 Sat 05-Jan-13 14:09:19

joycep fingers crossed for treatment going well today.
viv I am sorry about the negative. Maybe you can give DP a big hug when he gets in. Maybe he can give you a big hug too.

I also had a negative result this weekend which I guess means IUI mark III didn't work. Just waiting for next cycle to start now. On the plus side I am eating pork steak, potato and leek gratin and green beans followed by clafoutis tonight. And I've just had a hot chocolate and I am going for an afternoon nap. So apart from the negative test, my saturday is going pretty well.

buzzybee123 Sat 05-Jan-13 14:17:39

joy I have yet to experience IVIg, Shehata does Intralipids from BFP, but I know a few who do it from before, something I can ask him about next time I see him. Are you taking vitamin D ?? Just think of it as a step closer to getting your baby and you will know you have done everything possible.

euro any new from your end??

viv we all do it at some stage, perhaps next time just write the note but don't give it to him, you get to write down and vent but without him reading it. My only advice is to get rid of the ristrictions that stress you out, like your age, I used to constantly worry about having a baby before 40, I'll be lucky to be pregnant by then. Once I got rid of all the limits I set like being pregnant by that age or that due date I felt alot happier, Being stressed and miserable about something you have little control over will only make you unhappy and won't help you achieve anything.
I did get a BFP after a BFN. I ovulated later in cycles, tested at 12dpo got a bfn and cried, then felt a bit sick at 14dpo and got my bfp.

doll I hope you had a good trip back, must be nice and sunny smile

Well I had the young and delightful Ricky put his hands on me again grin then I came back and started to spring clean, I now feel totally righteous. Now off to sainsbury to shop with the civilised people grin hope you all have something nice planned for the weekend

sar If you are lurking, I hope all goes well on MondaY ??, thinking of you

pout I hope you are ok too

viviennewestwould Sat 05-Jan-13 15:50:15

Freedom & Buzzy, thank you. I like the advice to stop dwelling on the perceived barriers to conception. My age is all I think about and maybe it's time to just let that go.

Freedom, I'm so sorry about your BFN. You seem un-suicidal...how do you manage the disappointment? Does it feel like heartache? I want it to not feel like heartache. I will be trying IUI soon and am worried that BFNs after assisted conception will just finish me off. Some of you have been through so much and yet seem dignified and upbeat still. I feel a little ashamed that I react so badly to a BFN.

EuroShagmore Sat 05-Jan-13 17:37:32

Buzz my end is enjoying a few days off as it is now in the 2ww. grin

I occasionally get sad that we have ended up at IVF, but I'm more at ease with it than I was in the summer, and happy that I will not be taking the headfuck drugs again.

Sorry about your BFN freedom

akuabadoll Sat 05-Jan-13 17:49:33

yes, sorry bout the BNF freedom that sucks. Good for you finding good things to be enjoying this Saturday.
Hi to all the self proclaimed weight gainers. You can add me to the list. I'm bigger than I have ever been in my life, as is Ken, and he can't blame IVF drugs. It's a dull dry and low carb January in the Doll house.
buzzy nooooo it's pouring with rain just like everyday in the UK. I was just told at a vile kids party that I missed two weeks of sun though. So that's great.

buzzybee123 Sat 05-Jan-13 20:40:12

euro I thought you had sore boobs and was near the end of your 2ww?? You could still have the month before updiffness before IVF smile

free sorry I missed your post earlier and sorry about the BFN, I think it was lucky number 4 for lemon with the IUI.

doll does help if I tell you it has stopped raining here wink

viviennewestwould Sat 05-Jan-13 22:18:57

He is home and he is wasted. My wonderful, selfless, magnificent man is staggering drunk. He is laughing in my face saying he has been drinking 'for months'. We are finished. I am beyond devastated but I am apoplectic with rage that he has been deceiving me and my family, who adore him. I am lost. Where do I go from here? 2.5 years of sobriety he has thrown down the drain. He is respected, loved and admired by everyone who has watched and been a part of our recovery. He has a son. He has a new job. My life is now over as I knew it but I know his life is over full-stop. I am beyond devastated that he has allowed me to waste a year of my life trying for a baby with him. I'm losing my mind.

buzzybee123 Sat 05-Jan-13 22:30:07

oh viv I am so sorry, can you go and stay with someone, big hugs

sarlat Sun 06-Jan-13 09:59:11

Hello - yoohooo. Can I pop back in?

I have missed you ladies. I did benefit from time away (all 2 weeks of it) but to be honest I have been flat out busy with various things that I wouldn't have had time to post just recently anyway. I did dream about you as well. Often we were meeting up in restaurants. Once Will and Kate were there too confused

I wouldn't say I am now a model of calm and positivity who is accepting of my lot. But I have re-gained a little bit of 'listening to my inner voice'. Sorry I know that is ultra naff. I use to be able to predict what would happen in my life - and it always came true. So I am trying to listen to my instincts again. 60% of me is feeling that tomorrows lap and dilation will help me. 40% is as shit scared as always.

Hello to the new ladies on the thread. Sorry you find yourself here but things will be better now you have this lovely bunch to chat to - it is a great release and source of knowledge which I'm sure you have already found.

Just to give some info for those who don't know mw - I'm 33, DH 48. Been ttc for over 2.5 years. Got pregnant first month of trying and miscarried at 6 weeks. HSG showed tubal damage, but maybe not blocked. The cause may be the miscarriage. Type and extent of tubal damage isn't clear, hense my lap tomorrow. Had lots of difficulty coming to terms with said tubal damage. Also had IVF earlier this year. First cycle and follow up FET both BFN despite good embryos. Dh's SA apparatly ok.

I'm sorry I don't know everything that's been going on with you lot. But I have managed to gleen a few bits.

Joy - sweetheart - how brave are you! Keep going with the treatment and wishing you loads of luck.

Art - it sounds like the most recent scan was good - are you ok my lovely?

Den - your plans sound sensible. I think your Dr's are handling things far better than mine have. Be very proud of yourself for tackling this head on.

Critter - hooray for periods and heres to ongoing eggy cycles.

Madness - did they remove a tube? The tube that you thought would be removed? Can you give me a quick update. I hope the next few months fly by.

Sorry for BFN's, FB crapola, PMT and arguments. Sorry for any big stories and traumas that I have missed.

Viv - aw honey. Goodness me, what a nasty shock. You know sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. Take a deep breath. I can't comment on your relationship but from what your wrote, I think there is lots of deep and unresolved emotion which needs to come out of both of you. That does not have to mean this is the end - far from it. This could be the start of things getting better. Don't do anything rash. Let him have time and sober up. People are complex and good people do bad things. Big hugs and take care.

So I have to be at hospital for 7.3o tomorrow. This op is a good thing right? I keep fantasising that they will 'repair' me and that I get pregnant immediatly after. Don't know if positive thinking like this is helpful or not. Hand holding would be great.

ThatWayMadnessLies Sun 06-Jan-13 10:21:48

Welcome back sar grin. Here for some Pre-lap hand holding. Everyone else can skim over my update as they've heard it all before. They did remove a tube, but not the one I thought confused. I'm seeing the consultant Tuesday for some discussion where I am not out of it on the anaesthetic drugs. There was an infection again which I think had pretty much killed my left tube. They said that it was all matted and stuck down with adhesions. Definitely wasn't helping me at all. He said my right tube was okay but I am unsure whether that means that they drained the hydrosalpinx or that it wasn't there. They've drained a cyst and cleared away some adhesions and now I'm on decapeptyl (essentially downregging) to halt the spread of the endo until we go for ivf in a few months (fingers crossed). That may sound quite scary but I am completely at peace with having the tube gone.knowing is 100 times better than not knowing and you will most likely wake up to some answers that will make your TTC struggles make more sense. Have a lovely day today and I'll be thinking of you tomorrow. Rabbit will have your medal as well I'm sure grin

viv sorry things have taken this turn. As the daughter of an alcoholic I have seen how hard staying sober can be. My father managed years without drinking but he always relapsed. I hope that you are both in a better place this morning.

freedom2011 Sun 06-Jan-13 10:40:41

viv I am so, so sorry to read your last post. Like madness, I hope things are looking clearer today.

EuroShagmore Sun 06-Jan-13 10:51:10

viv I'm so sorry to read your post.

Welcome back sar. I hope the lap goes well.

buzz I'm only about 3 days into the 2ww now. I do have sore boobs though. They start immediately after ov for me. Not menkulling yet.

GinSoaked Sun 06-Jan-13 12:53:28

Oh viv so sorry to hear about your weekend. Is there any chance he was making it up about the drinking for months, just to annoy you? The whole ttc thing is incredibly stressful and really does put relationships under huge pressure. Big hugs and I hope things are a little better today.

Welcome back sar! Happy new year and lots of good luck for tomorrow. I hope it will provide a solution for you and should certainly give you a better idea of what's going on. At some point, I need to quiz you about FETs and how they work, but only once you are all recovered (and have your lap medal).

critter I should be project scrooging but instead appear to be on a one woman mission to keep the economy going! I just can't resist those sale bargains. One purchase for a friend's little girl were the cutest vintage style pjs from monsoon. If only they also sold babies too, to go in the pjs.

joy throw everything at it I say! They really don't do things by halves do they? Having said that, I was on steroids and clexane at Create, the supposedly drug lite clinic. Hope you are doing ok today.

viv as euro said, you'd know if you had ohss. I was at high risk of it during the last ivf and think I had a very mild case. It's very unusual if you aren't doing ivf, or something to produce lots of follicles. Estradiol (e2) is the hormone that would indicate it, not progesterone. I think it's when the empty follicles fill with fluid after EC and the fluid then seeps out into you abdomen and can cause all types of nasty things. I didn't think you could get it until after ovulation euro, but I may be wrong. I had high e2 levels and a small pool of fluid behind my womb <boak>, but it went away on it's own and my kidney function remained fine. Anyway, you prob don't care about this now, but just wanted to set anyone who was worrying about it mind at rest! joy you are being so carefully monitored that I can't imagine argc get any cases of it.

freedom sorry about the bfn. How many iui goes are you having?

doll boo to the dry Jan. As I've been (and will) be off the booze for the AC cycles, I decided to forego dry Jan and am making the most of being able to drink. Although I don't seem to be able to drink so much these days, which is probably a good thing!

Happy Sunday to everyone else. I'm still in bed <lazy cow emoticon>. We went to see the hobbit last night, which finished late. I was pleasantly surprised by the good lookingness of some of the dwarves smile

I don't know if anyone else is as obsessed with stuff about AC as I am, but there's a programme on BBC4 on mon at 9pm about a fertility clinic. I will be watching...

buzzybee123 Sun 06-Jan-13 13:02:27

sar Good luck for tomorrow, I will be thinking of you

euro sorry I seem to be confused, hoping this is your month

viv I hope you are ok and that you and DP have had a chance to sort things through.

gin grin at your monsoon comment, was the Hobbit good??? I saw the first Lord of the Rings and was bored shitless by it hmm its not really my kind of story but the casting looked good for the Hobbits

akuabadoll Sun 06-Jan-13 13:09:37

oh hi gin nice to see you. I would be watching if I was still in the UK. Mind you I spent my last evening discovering Made in Chelsea much to the horror of my family, I don't know how these TV snobs made me grin. We had a massively late morning here too. Still raining.

Where is my other lovely IVF buddy art ? hope you are ok.

Welcome back sar will be thinking of you.

So sorry to hear about your situation viv as others said hope things look a bit better today, if that's possible.

Sorry I'm not back to checking in with everyone yet. Grey Sunday waves.

akuabadoll Sun 06-Jan-13 13:14:59

oh buzzy reminded me that's why I logged on to say hi to Gin the pj comment. I'm loving your comments on less well accepted methods of getting baby and procurement language in general grin You do realise that there are police residing at the adoption boards that may hunt you down? grin

joycep Sun 06-Jan-13 13:20:38

Sar - welcome back! Really really best of luck tomorrow. This is a good thing and you will finally get your answer and treatment. Please let us know how you get on and rabbit can give you your medal tomorrow.

Viv - so sorry to read your post. I hope a new day has brought something positive and you have managed to talk to dp.

Gin - thanks for the ohss explanation. I always thought it was people who had loads of eggs that can suffer from it. I certainly don't and haven't worries about it but who knows. I have had 2 blood tests for oesteial today so may be they are keeping a close eye. Oh so you were on steroids too. It's suppose to help with egg quality and implantation so mr google tells me. Scared of the moon face thing so trying to drink loads!

Not much to report from me. Daily scans now and 2 blood tests a day. Follies are growing. This week could be EC week. On the steroids now plus other things.

buzzybee123 Sun 06-Jan-13 13:52:49

joy I didn't notice the moon face thing, but then I have a fat face hmm but the women I do know who did get it were on the steroids for a long time and on a high dose, I'm on 25 mgs. I don't think I could cope with 2 blood tests a day sad did they tell you how many follies were on the up??

ThatWayMadnessLies Sun 06-Jan-13 14:34:01

Joy how on earth are you managing to work?? I am already worried about trying to fit in all sorts of scans etc. when we get to ivf. I don't know how accommodating the clinic will be. I also wonder if they would be more flexible with timings if we were paying as opposed to nhs. Difficult for me to get out of regular sessions at school until after the kids go home at 3:30..... Although I don't work far from the clinic so might be able to do lunch times without having to tell everyone and their dog what I'm up to.

gin I shall be watching on Monday. I also stayed in bed until noon yesterday. We must take advantage of our chldlessness while we still can wink.

doll made in Chelsea is a step too far for me but MrM hates all of the crappy reality stuff that i like to watch, anything that purports to be a documentary but is really just being really nosy about other people's lives - Big Fat Gypsy Weddings anyone?????

buzzy I didn't manage to get through all of the first lord of the rings. I refuse to go see the Hobbit. My mum will have to take one of her Internet dates instead smile

buzzybee123 Sun 06-Jan-13 15:27:21

madness I was ready to walk out of it as well, so long winded hmm I was a bit surprised as usually Peter Jacksons stuff is good. I just don't think I could sit through 3 hours of it, and then the next 3 hours and then the next hmm

EuroShagmore Sun 06-Jan-13 15:55:25

Gin you might be right. I could tick off the symptoms though, including stuff like decreased urination. It only lasted for a weekend and then went away. But then I think we all know by now that I am a bit "special" when it comes to reactions to hormone drugs.

joy I never got the moonface thing. I did get disrupted sleep and concentration though.

joycep Sun 06-Jan-13 16:03:47

Buzz - are you still on the steroids? was it Predinsolone (sp?). I am on 1mg of Dexamethalone which is stronger but that is equivalent to 6mg of Pred so perhaps I will be ok. I think because I had the Ivig, the dosage is lower...perhaps.

Madness - I have been so incredibly lucky with timings this cycle. I started over the xmas holidays so that meant i could do the hysto etc. And the Ivig fell yesterday when normally they wouldn't do it on a Saturday. And the blood tests and scans in the first week start at 7.30am so i have done everything before work. But work is also 8mins from the clinic (it must have been fate that i ended up at this job). This week may be more challenging if i to slip out twice for the blood test and the pm scan but i may just take a late lunch and a very long loo break. EC & ET take place at 7am so i may be able to do all this before work as well. This has been one of my biggest worries as I just don't want to tell the unapproachable male bosses what i'm up to.
Would you be able to tell someone at work? A clinic close is such a blessing. Will you be able to start when it's half term or the holidays or won't you get a choice?

ah yes, i got in to ~Big Fat Gypsy Weddings...i sat like this shock whilst watching it.

buzzybee123 Sun 06-Jan-13 16:22:18

joy I took 25 mgs of steroids Prenisolone from ovulation until AF, I did it for a few months but it really disrupted my sleep and I actually had a day off work as I had not slept all night. That is when I went to see Shehata privately. I stopped taking it for a few months then he put me on 200mgs of Hydroxychorlquine a day which is much better to take. When I get a BFP i'll start the steroids and the Intralipids. You're going to work after EC?? Won't you bee too sedated??
You ladies should be able to discuss the situation with your Occ health depts if you can't speak to your boss. I pretty much think most people at work know I am planning IVF now grin

akuabadoll Sun 06-Jan-13 16:59:52

joy I think buzzy is right, the ET is no problem for return to work, but I think you will need to make a plan for the EC, it takes a while for one and I doubt you will want the go into work after, whatever time it is. Gin and sar and others warned me off an afternoon meeting I wanted to go to and Im glad they did.

'My big fat gypsy wedding' has been recommending to me. I'd be all over it given the chance. madness Ken too is challenged in the area of crap TV. Some improvement was noted following a training programme I ran for him while living in NYC, he still has limits though.

mrsden Sun 06-Jan-13 17:00:13

Ivf seems like a full time job joy. I agree that having the clinic close by is good. We haven't had much choice, there is only one place in the city that does ivf. The other clinic which was part of the public hospital closed down because they said it wasnt financially viable and it was diverting resources from the maternity unit. On principle now, if I ever do get pregnant I will not be giving birth there. The head consultant left in protest when the decision was taken by hospital bosses, he said they viewed fertility treatment as unimportant and he couldnt agree with their thinking. As it happens the clinic we are using is very close to our house, so it makes things easier.

It sounds like you are being given the full works when it comes to ivf. I can see why they get the results they do. When do you think ec will happen? I'm not planning on telling work, I'll just have to find a way to work around it. Im also thinking that if I do get pregnant then I won't want to tell anyone until after 20 weeks. I wonder how easy that is to do.

gin I too thought ohss happened after ec. It's more likely to happen in a cycle that ends in pregnancy too.

viv sorry to hear about your dh. I hope he's sobered up and you've managed to talk to him.

sar I'll be thinking g of you tomorrow. I've found it helpful to think about what I'd consider to be the worse case scenario, and then I'm hoping I'll be able to deal with anything that isn't that. My worst case of they discover I've got some terrible disease that can't be treated, my next worse is they have to remove ovaries and uterus, next worse is they remove just ovaries, next is they remove one ovary, then remove both tubes, and then removing one tube doesn't seem so bad. I don't need it anyway for ivf. I do think that if it's damaged it's best to get rid, otherwise if ivf fails I'll be thinking it might have worked if it were not for the rotten tube. Have they said they'd try to drain it? I think this can be an option, but my dr warned that it's likely to refil with fluid so not really solving the problem. Anyway, hopefully they'll discover all is shiny and glistening and you get a clean bill of health. But even if they do find something, it can be treated.

madness you've been through so much, I admire how chilled you seem. Was the infection there before the lap? Is it endo that's caused all the problems?

I'm stumped to know how I've got a damaged tube. I never had unsafe relations until ttc. And Ive had annual medicals which have included std checks so I know I've never (and neither has dh) had an std. I've never had abdominal surgery, no miscarriage, abortion. I'm mystified. I wonder if it's possible to have endo with no symptoms?

freedom2011 Sun 06-Jan-13 17:02:23

ginsoaked 5 IUI tries I think - so 3 down, 2 to go. My insurance pays for 8 but my doctor said he never bothers with 8 as after 5, max 6 goes most of his patients are getting fed up and ready to move on with IVF.

thanks for the kind words viv akubadoll and buzzybee and euro. euro well done on not mentalling yet. I am 16 days past IUI and still waiting for AF and pretending not to look for symptoms despite 2 negative tests. New cycle will start tonight or tomorrow no doubt.

madness joycep sarlat especially big respect to all of you.