Fantastic 40+ Thread - Part Eight.

(1000 Posts)
goldengirl71 Thu 11-Oct-12 21:51:58

"Come on ovaries! Let's get this party started, yeah?"

10000Fireflies Thu 11-Oct-12 23:42:43

<Groan> Golden that is a truly awful joke.. Just popping in to mark my place!! FF xx

10000Fireflies Thu 11-Oct-12 23:51:59

Just scanned the last couple of pages of the last thread - AngleGeorgie - Hope you are doing ok? I cannot believe how quickly this past year has gone.

And MiasMummy - thinking of you too as you go through this trying time.

Baby Firefly 16 weeks tonight and first tooth has come through!! Ouch!! Keeping me v busy.

Hi to everyone else. I am not doing v well at keeping up with you all - you can't half talk these days!!

FF xx

CaliBee Fri 12-Oct-12 07:39:42

Morning .....
Another Friday, biiig meeting at work where we are supposed to sit in front of the senior bosses with our line manager and explain openly and honestly why we cannot get along with our LM. Trouble is, I'm the only one who seems to have the guts to open my mouth.....hmmm or maybe I'm just gobby grin.
cheese how lovely of you to remeber that time is short. We have this weekend and the next one and the one after that I take him up North. We are planning a bit of a get together one evening....just my family really and we are having a Caribbean theme (thats where he is from) ....it just means that (cleverly) he will do the cooking .

TinaO99 Fri 12-Oct-12 07:47:40

hello ladies - well Tested (very early) this morning and I got a bfp!!!!!!!!! very early days yet and I know I won't feel secure until 3 months have passed but for now I am pregnant!!!!!

Thanking god and Care fertility that it worked the first time :-) wasn't sure how I was going to cope if it had been a bfn as it would have been the end of the road for us!

CaliBee Fri 12-Oct-12 07:57:26

OMG....congratulations tina so pleased for you

lotsofcheese Fri 12-Oct-12 08:14:27

Oh Tina that's the best news EVER!!! gringrin

littlepinkfizz Fri 12-Oct-12 08:22:18

Wow tina fantastic! Well done! X

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 09:00:48

Tina, joy!! I am so thrilled for you - well done! thanks thanks thanks x

woollywomble Fri 12-Oct-12 10:37:22

Hi everyone, found you all. Tina know we haven't 'spoken' before but have been following the thread - fantastic news, congratulations!. GG good news re your appointment too, hope DH is doing as he's told now (you're a bit scary you knowsmile). I've just announced to my DH that he needs to start taking vitamins and stop drinking. Some sex might be helpful too. I just got a lookhmm. Perhaps this new thread will bring us all some new luck!

sparklysapphire Fri 12-Oct-12 11:13:46

Tina, that's fantastic news, I'm so pleased for you, congratulations - I'll be keeping everything crossed for you over the next few weeks.
Cheese good to know all is well with your been so far. Golden, good news that you got some useful info (and the Clomid) from your consultant, hope your DP will start pulling his weight!
As womble says, here's hoping this thread brings BFPs for more of us.
Miasmum, wishing you love and strength for next week, and angel love to you too this week.
And very belated congratulations to jollster on the birth of Jem, hope all is going well.
love to all.

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 11:19:52

Fireflies, it wasn't a joke at all. Prince Charles talks to his plants - I talk to my ovaries.

I think this is absolutely going to be the lucky thread, especially having kicked off with Tina's big fat positive grin I want to be pregnant by Christmas (are you listening, ovaries??)

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 11:21:40

Womble, I am only scary if you do not do as you are told and your behaviour may be impacting on my ability to conceive [indignant emoticon].

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 11:23:41

Where are the mood swings Clomid promises? I'm dying for a scrap

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 11:28:13

Streuth! I hope Sheila Gum finds us..

10000Fireflies Fri 12-Oct-12 11:47:04

Go Tina, go tina!!

knickyknocks Fri 12-Oct-12 15:32:51

I'm just flying in to say wonderful fantastic news Tina. I know how those first few days/weeks feel and they must feel especially so given your journey. Thinking of you, and crossing everything that your little bean sticks.

I still read this thread and I'm always hopeful that there's good news. I really do hope that everyone gets good news soon. You were all such a wonderful support when I was a regular contributer on this thread. I'm coming up to 18 weeks now and things are going very smoothly. We'll find out in a couple of weeks if little one is a boy or girl. Anyway, wanted to say much love and thinking of you all xx

hippychick66 Fri 12-Oct-12 17:25:14

Fabulous news Tina - gringringrin Hang in there lovey XXX

Yay, what fabulous news, tina!! A really fantastic start to the lovely sparkly new thread created by the Clomid-enhanced golden...

Irishmammybread Fri 12-Oct-12 18:00:06

Congratulations Tina, fantastic news! x

TinaO99 Fri 12-Oct-12 18:49:40

thanks so much for all your lovely comments ladies, you've all been wonderful, hope everyone else gets bfps soon.

I have my first scan at care on the 2nd nov then I get passed into the 'tender loving care' of the NHS. I now have to find out what has changed since I had my daughter 21 years ago!!!!!

Diege Fri 12-Oct-12 19:28:15

Oh wow Tina that's brilliant news grin. I have been lurking but unable to post as away with work in Cardiff, and had been hoping so much for good news for you. You must have felt absolutely amazing as you got that second line/cross/'pregnant' on the test grin. Hoping for a very uneventful 9 months xxx
Golden great that you have your clomid - I was so disappointed for you as your chart looked very positive. Even charting is fallible though (same happened to me - triphasic chart but not pregnant) and in the end I remember just taking temps until ovulation had been established - it was far too much for my nerves carrying on into the 2ww.
I know I've missed loads, but we need a mega bistro tonight to celebrate Tina's great news. I say a massive 'all you can eat' chinese buffet. I'm starting off with deep fried tofu with green peppers in blackbean sauce, with Jasmine rice. Dh is actually on his way to get it for me as we speak grin

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 20:06:06

Diege! [waves] Nice to hear from you and thanks (to you all) for your positive Clomid comments. I've just had my tea and will have to pass on afters, too, simply because I refuse to eat the pointless shit Chinese buffets serve up as 'desserts' sad

Diege Fri 12-Oct-12 20:20:22

Are you dissing my banana fritteres then Golden??? Or maybe I could get one of those frozen penguin ice cream deserts for you? grin Or is that in Indian restaurants? confused. Btw, thought of you when I bought my '3 for a pound' cadbur'sy caramel bars today. Sacrilege what they've done to them angry. Rounded off the segments so that you get a smaller bar and a less satisfying break of section. Even when refrigerated. An all-round less satisfying experience, but for the same price when the offer ends. Not a good day in Cadbury Land!

gothinrecovery Fri 12-Oct-12 21:44:46

Tina that is fantastic news! So pleased for you.

Golden hope you are feeling a bit better and DP is whipped into shape smile

Am vegging out with a wine - having the AF from hell, way heavier than usual (sorry tmi) feel rank. Hopefully less rank tomorrow after a good sleep!

123littlepigs Fri 12-Oct-12 22:39:35

Wow!!! Major congrats to Tina.... Major hope for us all...xxx

123littlepigs Fri 12-Oct-12 22:45:51

Question to anyone still awake.... Is there always an implantation dip on a pregnant chart or can one be pregnant without this visual indicator.

Maybe a question for Tina... grin

Irishmammybread Fri 12-Oct-12 23:04:18

Hi 123, no there isn't always an implantation dip on a pregnancy chart,when I was pregnant my temps just remained consistently high after ovulation.
Also you can have a triphasic chart without being pregnant!
Are you on FertilityFriend? There are lots of sample charts you can look at and info about implanation dips etc.

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 23:04:21

Diege!, banana fritters are the Antichrist. That is all. Oh, except to say I have never been partial to a Cadbury's Caramel (too same-y after the first two chunks) but I am feeling your pain regarding messing with the dynamics of well-established chocolate bars. What the feck are they playing at with peppermint Aeros? I'm sat here troughing through a bag of treacle toffee [unhappy cavities emoticon]

Goth, sorry you're suffering with AF. Here...have a treacle toffee [pats Goth's head]

123, do not get sucked into the myth of implantation dips. Some women absolutely do see a huge drop in temp during their luteal phase and they turn out to be pregnant. Other pregnant women do not see a dip smile

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 23:05:51

Crossed posts with you, Irish. I can second what you said about triphasic charts not always indicating pregnancy! sad

goldengirl71 Fri 12-Oct-12 23:07:46

...in fact, I will never again trust my temperature charts unless the dots spell out 'YOU ARE F**KING PREGNANT NOW STOP BOTHERING THOSE NICE LADIES ON THE OVER-40 THREAD'.

123littlepigs Fri 12-Oct-12 23:15:44

Arrhh... Brill. Still hope for me then! Will test Sunday and let you lades know, but not holding my breath to be honest x

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 00:32:20

Fingers crossed 123...why don't you feel lucky this month?

Diege Sat 13-Oct-12 09:27:44

What do you mean about peppermint aeros golden??? shock. What have they done to them!!!
I can also concur that implantation dips, triphasic charts, pre-ov dips can also mean absolultely nothing. When I have been pregnant my temps have of course satyed high (albeit with dips below cover line weeks after bfp). Oddly the times I've mc, I've had implantation spotting (never with a successful pregnancy, though doubt that means anything). One odd (and slightly linked to the lit thing) is that if I appear to implant late (after 10dpo) this has sadly not resulted in a successful pregnancy.
YOu know, I am actually starting to feel broody again but no way dh would go there!

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 11:27:02

I have a huge throbbing boil on the very outer edge of my anus. That is all.

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 11:34:35

Diege! Nestlé should be done for sarilege, I swear: the individual pieces of their peppermint Aeros (standard bar) are now little demi-orbs of shitness. Harrumph!!

When you say you suspect you have sometimes implantated after 10DPO, how have you known? Has there been a 'dip' or have you only had a late BFP? I am asking because after my mmc I did wonder why I only registered a BFP on 13DPO. I would love to get a BFP on, say, 9DPO. I wonder whether, though, early BFPs belong only to those lucky women with shorter luteal phases?

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 11:34:57

*Implantated? Really?

hopefulgum Sat 13-Oct-12 11:35:28

Tina - so happy to come home and hear your news. I really was expecting to see a BFP on the thread - could feel it in my waters...grinSo pleased for you.

Golden, I am so sorry the witch found you but really excited about the clomid and hope it does the trick.

I can't write much, DH is unpacking the car and I must help and also get some dinner for the kids.

We had a superb holiday. Feel very happy and relaxed(and fatter - ate and drank all week lone - was heavenly), and revitalised.

Can't ask for better than that.The weather was perfect - we swam and snorkelled daily.

will catch up more tomorrow, must dash...Love to all.

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 11:35:54

Diege, I have been meaning to tell you for quite some time now but yes...you do want another baby wink shock

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 11:38:48

Gum! So glad you're back and you've had a fabulous time - it does sound heavenly x

Diege Sat 13-Oct-12 13:38:03

Hello Gum!!! Great to hear you had such a lovely time and had a chance to unwind. You've been missed!
Golden, do you mean the bag of balls aeros have replaced the proper bars? shock or that the bar segments have taken on a spherical appearance (a la Cadbury's Caramel). What are they playing at!!! Do they think we don't notice?
On the baby front for me I don't think dh is for turning. He is looking forward to the day that ds2 starts school (next sept) so that our huge nursery fee is reduced a little...Having said that, I did apply for a new job yesterday that pays an extra 10 grand a year on what I'm getting now, so will bide my time... wink
Love to all xxx

goldengirl71 Sat 13-Oct-12 16:45:20

Diege, re Aeros it is the latter. I do not know what they are playing at. Next thing you know they'll be leaving the walnut off the top of the Whip shock

hopefulgum Sun 14-Oct-12 00:14:03

Morning all.

Deige - good luck with the job. 10 grand extra is a huge amount, and could certainly pave the way for an extra babydeige.

Dh and I have put our land onto the market again, fingers crossed that it sells so we can get out of the financial merde(spelling?) we are in.On the surface we look like we have a fabulous lifestyle - holidays,living close to the beach in lovely suburb,nice house we built 12 years ago,nice Euro car etc...but we pretty well own none of it,and have survived on equity. Soon the bank is going to cotton on to our champagne lifestyle on a beer budget and ask for it all back!hmmIf we could sell our block of land we'd be able to better finance our lifestyle. And then the blow of having another baby wouldn't hit my DH so hard. I'm lucky to have Government subsidised childcare (nursery) so the fees aren't too bad. I pay $147 a week (four full days) (that's about 94 pounds).

Despite my decision to not ttc this month because in about 9 months time we are flying out to Lombok, it seems I have accidentally had sex during my fertile window.wink I am hoping that we'll have a little souvenir from our holiday. I had a positive opk yesterday, the usual ovulation pain and good timing, so it remains to be seen. If it screws up the holiday plans, I'll endeavor to change the booking - I think it is probably doable, and I'll worry about it if I do get a bfp and make it past 12 weeks...

Golden - do you feel any different taking the clomid? Did the consultant talk about any side effects? Did s/he say anything about clomid for older women? Did you have to have any tests done? I'm sorry, but I haven't had a chance to read the rest of the old thread.

123littlepigs - hello, I don't know if we'd met earlier? Anyway, about implantation dip - I did have one with my son's pregnancy, at 5 DPO, which many people would say is too early for implantation. I got a + at 9 DPO, so maybe it was an early implantation. I haven't had implantation dips on the other 3 pregnancies I have had since (unfortunately miscarried). Last miscarriage I actually had a tiny bit of spotting at 10 DPO, the day I got a bfp, and really wasn't expecting it(the bfp). Golden, I'm not sure about your theory about short luteal phases and early BFP's. I seem to get bfp's 9 and 10 dpo, but my luteal phase ranges from 11 to 15 days with an average of 13 days(that's according to fertility friend).I remember reading that the luteal phase will never vary, only the days up to ovulation, but I know after charting for 5 years that that is bollocks(at least for me).It can and does vary,and people have been known to lengthen their LP with vitB6 or progesterone.

Well, it is back to reality for me. I still have to unpack and do the laundry, but it is bucketing down (so glad we had the good weather all week at Rotto), so I don't know how I'll get everything dry.I really hate using the dryer,and only do if it is absolutely essential. DH back to work tomorrow, then me and the kids back on Tuesday.sadAt least this school term is only 9 and a half weeks, then it is our long summer break.
By then we'll all be happily up the duffgrinRight?
All I want for Christmas is a viable pregnancy.

AngelGeorgie Sun 14-Oct-12 00:30:50

Hi all; huge congrats Tina xxx
Sparkly I m doing ok thanks 1 day at a time. Very up & down celebrating my 2 girls within 8 days of each other is a rollercoaster of emotions ... Hope u re ok?
Hi Diege, Gum & FF xxx
Hi to everyone else xxxx
Gosh FF your lo has a tooth already??? Phebs has been teething for 4/5 months & still not 1 tooth!!!! Think she ll wake up at 18 with a full set of gnashers!!!! Hope you re doing ok? Yes, the last year has certainly flown by .... !!!!! Xxxxc
Love to all xxxxx

wylie05 Sun 14-Oct-12 05:36:05

Hello, would you mind if I join you? I have been lurking for a very long time but have been too shy to post! I am 44 and have DD aged 8. I had a mc in Jan 08 and tried all that year to conceive again without success. It was a horrible and sad time. I gave up in then, partly because my job is one that has things you can't do if you are pregnant and I was in a permanent state of "what if " every month to find I had stressed for 2 weeks for nothing! I am British but now living south of Perth as my husband is working at the mines in Western Australia for a while. I thought I would try again. I have been reading the fertility friend website and have started my chart and folic acid. Feeling bit more positive now even though I'm older.

hopefulgum Sun 14-Oct-12 08:23:48

Hello wylie - I'm also south of Perth - amazing!

So sorry about your miscarriage. I'm glad you are feeling positive. I hope you conceive soon.It is a hard road isn't it, but you'll find huge support here.

Angelgeorgie, lovely to hear from you. It must be a really rough time for you, celebrating your darling girls. Big hugs(()).

goldengirl71 Sun 14-Oct-12 10:49:20

Wylie, hello and welcome to the thread thanks I'm sorry about your miscarriage, have you been secretly trying to conceive since then? Have you been referred to a gynae consultant and had a scan, blood tests etc? It's good news that you're charting; it's an education. I'm 41 with no children but I fell pregnant within two months of trying in January but had a mmc in March. Since then I haven't had a whiff of pregnancy so I've had all the tests and DP's sperm checked and this week the consulatant gave me Clomid. I'm thrilled because it's becoming more and more clear to me that even when we do ovulate our eggs are mainly shit. I really believe that. And I do not want to wait years in the hope of a 'golden egg'.

Gum, try reading the last thread as I can't remember everything I said. However, I did ask the consultant about Clomid thinning the uterus lining and she shook her head before I had finished my query. She said in some cases Clomid can have this side effect but it has no negative impact on the ability to conceive or maintain a pregnancy. 24% of women on Clomid will miscarry - the same as those women who conceive naturally. 45% of women on Clomid will get pregnant. This figure is lower if there are other infertility factors, or if the woman does not (or rarely does) ovulate or if she is obese. When I asked her for the success rates in over 40s she looked me straight in the eye and said the figures are the same for younger women.

What I have discovered is they chuck this drug at anyone and everyone. I was talking to women in the waiting room who were younger than me, older than me, Asian (more than white on the day I went) - but none of the women were overweight. They regularly give Clomid to women who are ovulating regularly. I have had no side effects whatsoever and today I have taken my final pill this cycle. However, on Clomid threads I am reading lots of women suffer when their doses are increased to 100mg (which they automatically do, it would seem, after 3 months of 50mg not working) I really don't care if I suffer with Clomid. The 'evidence' surrounding Clomid increasing the chances of ovarian cancer is very sketchy and, again, I don't care. This may seem like a cavalier attitude towards my health but, to be frank, if this failed ttc continues for another year it is my mental health I am worried about.

goldengirl71 Sun 14-Oct-12 10:59:41

DP showed me his month's supply of nicotine patches yesterday. I watched as he ripped up and chucked away his tobacco and papers. He showed me his very own vitamins he has bought. The underpants have not yet been jettisoned but...I'm working on it. He has assured me that he will do everything I have asked and more in order to try to improve his sperm morphology. He said he won't let me down. I said he was forgiven smile

goldengirl71 Sun 14-Oct-12 11:10:18

Gum, here is the list of possible side effects of Clomid from the pamphlet the consultant gave me: hot flushes, mood swings, breast tenderness and swelling (will I get the elusive tender breasts at last??), bloated feeling in the lower abdomen, headaches, nausea, hair loss (this is very rare - besides, I'd rather be bald than childless), blurred vision (very rare - I am already blind as a bat).

Like I said, I have experienced none of the above, however I may be speaking way, way too soon. If the women on the Clomid thread are to be believed, I can look forward to horrific mood swings (what's new? I'm trying to conceive and failing miserably for fuck's sake) and a doubled-over-in-agony cramping as I ovulate. Then there is the alarmingly extended luteal phase (almost all the women are frantically and excitedly POAS when their usual luteal phase has passed and nearly all of them are devastated to learn it's a BFN and their period arrives 17DPO shock)

Hello all, just popping in to thank you all for your kind thoughts of love and strength. I have been feeling pretty calm over the weekend, but now feeling very wobbly...

123littlepigs Sun 14-Oct-12 19:43:04

Hi hopefullgum welcome and thanks for the info... I think I might be out for this month however. sad

Tested this morning and it came back a big fat N.... Period not due until this Wednesday however so I'll just have to wait and see....

All the best to the rest of you all testing in the next few day.... grin

goldengirl71 Sun 14-Oct-12 20:29:53

Aww, Littlepigs, I'm sorry sad

Thinking of you tomorrow, Mia'sMummy. Be strong x

TinaO99 Sun 14-Oct-12 20:51:03

thnaks diege gum little pigs and angel!!! little pigs sorry wouldnt have a clue about temping, I tried it for a while when I first started trying but gave it up as I couldnt be bothered doing it every day and just seemed to get weird results all the time lol

wylie welcome, I'm 44 too so still definite chance for you, sorry also about your mc, I had one a couple of years ago so I know how it feels, lucky you in Perth, we were heading out there to emigrate last year but decided not to in the end as it was either that or a baby and baby won hands down lol

golden does sound a bit funny if your consultant is giving out clomid so freely, my consultant said there was no point giving it if you ovulated, in the end when I had my IUI I was given menopur rather than clomid which I was told had less side effects but I guess clomid is cheaper! By the way hope your boil has cleared up sounds very painful, I sometimes get them in even more sensitive places but I blame shaving for that grin

I'm now struggling to get through the next 3 weeks until my first scan, I just want to see that all looks ok as I still don't feel pregnant in terms of symptoms, I've always had sore boobs before but this time nothing! I'm wondering if the progesterone is masking some symptoms or whether this pregnancy is just going to be different. I do have an aversion to some smells and have gone off some foods, unfortunately this isn't good as I'm craving stodge and naughty things and have gone off healthy food

I have also made a decision not to look at or buy anything until the first 3 months have passed but have already found myself thinking about decorating the spare room and what theme I'll use!

My daughter also now knows, she was ok about it but a bit non commital - I think she'll be ok if it's a boy which I feel it is - one of my embryos was very sticky and tried to stay in the catheter during the transfer, the consultant said in his experience the sticky ones were boys!

hopefulgum Mon 15-Oct-12 00:15:50

123littlepigs, sorry about the BFN. I sometimes wish we had a monitor on our bodies that spelt out plainly, 3 days after ovulation,whether we should be hopeful or not. I always feel reasonably hopeful in the 2ww (hence my name), until I start testing at 9 DPO, then I get antsy and cranky and sad. Luckily I am taking a low key approachhmmso I don't let it get to me too much(why isn't there a "liar" emoticon).

Thinking of you miasmummy, sending love and hugs your way.

Meant to say earlier,*Goth*, that I'm sorry this cycle was a bust for you too. Hang in there, our time will come.

Tina, that's amazing that they can tell the sex so early on. I know you'll be over the moon with either sex, but it will be so lovely for you to have a little boy in your family. Ours brings us so much fun and laughter every day. And he is extremely cuddly.

I am pleased to say that I had a very achey ovary all day yesterday (well, I had an ache in that area on the right side) and then the full on ovulation pain later, this month it felt really strong - I'm hoping that is a good sign(and not a cyst,lol). I did start taking Vitex again this cycle, which apparently has been called nature's clomid, so maybe it has given my ovaries a boost. I hope sogrinNow that DS(4 years old) has finally transitioned to his own bed (our holiday sorted that one,thank goodness), DH and I are managing to have a better go at getting the sperm in the right place at the right time...so I do feel good about my not ttc this monthwink

Love to allthanks

wylie05 Mon 15-Oct-12 07:10:08

Thank you for your kind welcome. I hope all is well with all of you all today.
I haven't had any tests or seen a consultant as I currently trying a what will be will be approach! I'm going to see what happens over the next couple of months. I did have blood tests a couple of years ago and all was fine but all may have changed of course. hopefulgum I'm glad you had a good time at Rottnest, its on our list of places to visit! tina I hope all goes well!
Goldengirl I completely agree that charting is an education!!
Miasmummy I have been following this thread on and off for a while now and am thinking of you today.
Best wishes to all.

CaliBee Mon 15-Oct-12 07:34:03

Morning all ....welcome to wylie smile

Thoughts go out to Miasmummy today.
Hows the clomid going "Golden* any side affects yet?
So for me, I'm currently 8dpo.....however we shall see as I'm trotting off to get a progesterone repeat this morning.....fingers crossed. I'm having weird pinches in the lower sides of my belly and sorest boobs ever. However as I'm sure we all know, symptoms are imagined at this point.

goldengirl71 Mon 15-Oct-12 09:37:50

Gum, I don't know if you read my post about me getting my results from the consultant but I am rather perplexed by them and would appreciate your input. My FSH was 8.2 and LSH was 3.8 (in the summer my FSH was 6.5). I would say this shows a great ovarian reserve, no? More worryingly, though, was my day 22 progersterone result of 18.5. To show a normal ovulation the score needs to be >25. The consultant told me this was proof that I'm not ovulating - hence the ease with which I was prescribed Clomid. But, Gum, you've seen my charts...I ovulate every month! Can you help me understand what's going on here? I didn't want to argue with the consultant about my charts versus her results in case she snatched the Clomid away. I'd appreciate your thoughts (and those of anyone else who can shed some light, please).

P.s...for an over-40 thread I would have expected a few other women to have tried Clomid at some point. Do we know of anyone who has and did it work for them on here?

Diege Mon 15-Oct-12 09:38:25

Morning smile. Welcome wylie!
calibee - good luck for this month; are you taking progesterone at present?
Golden will read with interest how you get on with the clomid. It does sound like your dh is getting his act together. How does he feel about the 'session' he is going to have to put in this month?
Angel, miasmum, thinking of you both xxx
All fine here. Am thinking dh's 'I don't want any more babies' shell might be penetrable. He actually said last night (with no prompting I might add, not even on the subject) that he would like another baby but was worried about money etc etc. So am going to do a gum take a softly softly approach and see if I can't lure him in with a promise of constant sex grin.

hopefulgum Mon 15-Oct-12 13:23:18

Oh Deige - I think the lure of plentiful sex will actually work! I'm very excited to think that you might join us ttc again.smile

Golden - your FSH is really good for an over 40 woman. Anything under 11 is good. As for LSH - I don't know what that is and wasn't tested for it. I had estrogen,FSH,AMH done. The AMH is the new one they use to talk about ovarian reserve.Mine was super low,and the doctor had me believing I had no eggs at all left.And maybe I don't, but I seem to ovulate all the time according to temperatures. As for your progesterone test - I really don't know what it means. I think I had a test done and it was 28( I think, I can't actually remember) and I was told it was "excellent", and that was the same month I had estrogen levels that would indicate I "wasn't ovulating". So I actually take these tests and what they mean with a pinch of salt. I have also read so many testimonials from women who were told they were infertile with FSH of 42 and still had a baby.

I was talking to my younger sister today and remembered that she had taken clomid about 17 years ago. She did get pregnant the first month she used it, but she had an ectopic pregnancy. She had PCOS and had tried for 7 years before that with no success. She kept taking the clomid and they kept upping the dose, but she didn't get pregnant again. It was after having her tubes flushed out,and her DH giving up caffeine, booze and taking supplements that they got pregnant with their son. Then she found out she was 20 weeks pregnant when her son was about 10 months old. She had no idea she was pregnant, but complained of feeling sick.I prompted her to take a test, and sure enough, she was pregnant. She went for a scan and found out she was already 20 weeks! Then she had another 8 years before falling pregnant again, this time just by losing weight and using opk's ( with the PCOS she wasn't ovulating much). Would you believe, when that baby was 4 months old she fell pregnant again! She now has four sons. So although she was told early on she was not very fertile, from an outsider's point of view she looks very fertile.

Anyway, I hope the clomid works for you Golden.

My DS is calling for his warm milk, he's ready for bed, so must run. See you tomorrow.

littlepinkfizz Mon 15-Oct-12 13:33:30

That is really hopeful news about your sisters situation gum. Imagine her trying for babies and then not realising she was pregnant! That is lovely! X

goldengirl71 Mon 15-Oct-12 14:06:42

Diege, Dp has been forewarned that, this month, I would like us to have sex the night before and the morning of ovulation, before he goes to work. He readily agreed but asked if we could not keep discussing it in the run-up. Fair enough. The silence between us, though, is disconcerting for me. Although I know it would be counter productive to discuss the deed in advance I find myself quite alone in my anticipation/dread of ovulation. A little resentment is beginning to seep in regarding DP's 'issues'. I can't help it. He knows nothing about it and I know he is doing all he can but I find myself thinking it's not fair that I am not being shagged stupid as often as I would like around ovulation no matter what time of day or night. Previously, DP has refused to DTD before work as he doesn't want the facial Viagra flush all day. This month he has no choice, I'm afraid. If I'm on Clomid the least we can do is have sex at the right time.

He refuses to consider the use of pornographic films or magazines during sex. To be fair, he has developed an aversion to anything involving the sex industry as it was a dark part of my past when I was homeless, vulnerable and skint. I suspect that DP had no problems at all with his performance before me, but out of respect he tells me differently. He has huge issues with my past, some of which I regret deeply, some of which I don't. It is almost as if he puts the brakes on if I try to introduce eroticism in any other form than straightforward lovemaking. I suspect he believes that I am simply trying to re-create past experiences I have engineered with other men. I don't know. I am sorry if all this is TMI, I just needed to get off my chest that I am tired of the emotional and psychological baggage which is weighing down our enjoyment of effortless and adventurous sex. Maybe I expect too much. Our sex life is by no means pedestrian; he is the best kisser and master of oral pleasure I have ever known and the kindest, funniest man to boot. Sorry...I'm off to have a little sob.

goldengirl71 Mon 15-Oct-12 14:57:42

Gum, thanks for your input re my results. I, too, suspect it's all bollocks. Surely our charts can't be wrong? I just wish I knew what the quality of my eggs were - and even that AMH test can't discover that. P.s...how did you create a link using the word 'AMH' in your post? [jealous of Gum's IT skills emoticon]

goldengirl71 Mon 15-Oct-12 15:02:00

Oh, Gum, your sister's story is just ace. I love it when women's bodies prove science wrong grin

goldengirl71 Mon 15-Oct-12 15:10:06

Just found this on the Clomid thread from a lady called Merida:

"Just wanted to add a success story. We'd been TTC for nearly three years, in which time my SIL and step sis had got pregnant at 20 and 21 by accident.
We had every test going, and there really can be few things more frustrating than being told that 'it's good news, the XY or Z test came back clear'. I almost wanted there to be something wrong as then we'd have a chance of fixing it (crazy).

Anyway, the fertility nurse started me on Clomid and a couple of weeks later I puked up all my dinner (sorry, probs TMI!) Thought I'd just eaten something dodgy and went off to bed. Got up in the morning and was ill again. Checked my dates and did a test. Got a lovely BFP and presented it to DH as the best birthday present he could've hoped for.

I'm convinced that the reason we succeeded wasn't the Clomid, but was the fact that I'd become so downtrodden by it all that I kind of accepted it wasn't going to happen and stopped getting my hopes up.

Anyway, good luck to all, really hope it works for you."

CaliBee Mon 15-Oct-12 16:07:45

Just flying in quickly....todays progesterone result is 34.8. I'm thinking this is confirming ovulation. Any ideas ladies?

littlepinkfizz Mon 15-Oct-12 16:44:05

Listen golden your past is your past,warts and all. Like every one of us, so e good ,some bad. Your DP needs to see that. It is your PAST. Your going through he'll every month, men just don't seem to. You have had great courage and strength of mind and moved on in your life to where you are now. You need shagged,shagged and shagged some more. He does seem to be making some effort so give him a little time. Men seem to need a lot of it.....
smile

littlepinkfizz Mon 15-Oct-12 16:49:08

*hell , not he'll

hippychick66 Mon 15-Oct-12 23:01:52

Just popping in to say that this week is baby loss awareness week. Lighting a 'virtual' candle for all our little lost babies in the snug. sad

notsoold Mon 15-Oct-12 23:17:00

Gg loved that clomid thread. And as said before past is past....fingers crossed for you round ov time, hun xxx
Calibee I have no idea I'm afraid. But hoping for a good thing!!!
Hopeful great story smile luck sister!!!

We are here struggling to dtd every other day. We don't temp or anythings scientific because than I become really obsessive so the idea is simple dtd every other day. Absolutely knackered most evenings though and dh is getting tired with work and I (almost) feel sorry for him to have to have sex when so tired.. He is happy to go along but I can see that at 53( his age not mine smile) dtd every other day seems harsh...but what to do?

hopefulgum Tue 16-Oct-12 04:31:19

I just had to pop in and tell you all my weird dream. I think my subconscious is thinking too much about the quality of my eggs, because I dreamt that my mother ,who is 66, donated her eggs to 6 families and they all had babies. It was bizarre. I had heard and said ( in the dream, not RL)to my DH, " how is that possible" and his reply was that the eggs in my family stayed high quality, even after menopause.

How silly, but all this talk of clomid and egg quality obviously had me thinking without even being aware.

It must be a good sign that my eggs are great...at least that's what I'm telling myself!

goldengirl71 Tue 16-Oct-12 11:20:09

Notsoold, there is no need to DTD every other day if you would use OPKs. They will tell you when ovulation is imminent so that you can cram all your intercourse in at the appropriate time. Why make things difficult for your 53 year-old hubby? I used to envy women who were DTD every other day for the whole of their cycle (like they must have the fabbest sex life ever and must waft around fabulously reeking of sex and dropping to the floor for a tumble in supermarkets and things) but now I kind of don't. It's so bloody tedious when the only upshot you want from all this jiggery-pokery is a frigging BFP. Good luck with your efforts, though! wink

Pink and Notsoold, thank you for your kind words. DP is a wonderful man with a more-than-colourful past himself. However, a woman's sexual past does funny things to a man's sexual identity and confidence when he falls in love with her.

Calibee, if you had read the previous posts to yours you would see we had a whole disussion on progesterone day 21 tests. You are hugely selfish to fly in and out without reading properly wink grin

Yesterday I wept for pretty much most of the day. They were definitely tears of the hormonal variety as I felt as though my period was imminent. I've told myself it's the Clomid but, if I'm honest, it could be a whole raft of stuff which is all linked to the TTC journey. DP was a huge help when he got back from badminton last night and assured me that I will have semen in place the night before and the morning of ovulation this month smile

goldengirl71 Tue 16-Oct-12 11:24:12

Hippy, thanks for the candle and the remembrance. I'm lighting one, too sad

goldengirl71 Tue 16-Oct-12 11:27:10

Calibee, I hope my sense of humour hasn't offended. In case it has, here is my serious answer to your post: your eggs are superlative!

CaliBee Tue 16-Oct-12 11:30:49

Hmmmmm.....having only the use of my very slow mobile phone when I excitedly left my previous message I had indeed not checked the previous messages to my post. Apologies....I will go back to lurking sad

goldengirl71 Tue 16-Oct-12 12:06:04

Calibee, come on! You know I was joking!? confused

hopefulgum Tue 16-Oct-12 12:39:32

calibee, I hope you won't just lurk, we love having you around. I'm sorry I didn't comment earlier, but I think that progesterone result is really good, especially at 8 DPO. I am envious of such a good result.

Hippy, I wish I had lit a candle on the day, I would have lit a candle for all our lost and much-loved little ones. I plan to light a candle this week some time when I have a chance to really take the time to remember my babies.

Golden - it sounds like the clomid is doing its thing by the way you are feeling.Your DH does sound like a real trooper. You'll get those sperm in place and pop off a fabulous egg. All will be well.

My biscuitbiscuit's are really sore, already, I hope that's a good sign.They are really sensitive. But I know it has happened before to no avail, so shall reserve excitement when they are still tender at 13 DPO.

First day back at work today, so feeling pretty knackered.

Love to all.thanks

notsoold Tue 16-Oct-12 13:21:00

Gg....I tried the opk but struggled to go without drinking enough liquids or visiting the loo ( kidneys problems here). But maybe a should reconsider....
Calibe...come back and please don't lurk away (although as a lurker myself I am i no position to say nowt)
Hopeful it took me a while to understand the biscuit thing...first I thought donuts, fried eggs, baps and then bingo the right thing....I know I can be really slow.. smile

gothinrecovery Tue 16-Oct-12 13:35:41

Just dropping in, not been online for a couple of days. Big hugs to everyone.

Gum - sounds really positive this month! Golden - fingers crossed the Clomid will do its job.

Nothing much to report from me, I am stupidly tired for no good reason. AF was heavier than usual and lasted a bit longer which probably didn't help. On the plus side at least my cycle seems to be back to its usual 28 days. Feel pretty flat though, I had hoped I would be pg again by now - was daft enough to believe all the stuff about increased fertility after miscarriage which clearly for me isn't the case. Trying to stay positive though and do nice things with DH and friends rather than obsessing too much (which is why I don't temp etc - Golden I think you have asked that before).

CaliBee Tue 16-Oct-12 13:55:11

golden and I crossed posts. I love your dry humour...just me being very pmsish. grin.
I promise not to lurk.

Back to work and a vomiting and diarrhoea bug strikes the ward that I am due to visit this afternoon...do I or dont I?? I really dont deal with vomit too well lol.

goldengirl71 Tue 16-Oct-12 17:34:03

Calibee, thank you for accepting my private apology, you're lovely.

Goth, I'm sorry you're feeling poo, but I envy your determination to enjoy your life instead of being in a permanently suspended state of frenzied baby-yearning like me. Personally, I think all those folk who tell us we're ultra fertile after miscarriage should be rounded up and shot. Caused me no end of misery, them lot.

Notsoold, you make me laugh with your interpretation of [bisuit]. Do reconsider OPKs if at all possible. I drink huge amounts of water, too, but I just about manage to limit my intake for the two hours necessary before testing. I just feel terribly sorry for your husband - but that's because I'm learning just how much this ttc shite impacts on our lovely other halves.

Gum, your faith in my Clomid, DP's sperm and my eggs is heartwarming. Thank you even though I have no faith this month whatsoever

Today I went and got my hair bleached as I put it off last week when I thought I may be pregnant [stupid false hope emotion]. I kept falling asleep under the heater and was told I was very quiet by the staff who I usually keep entertained with my lunacy. I felt like I had run a marathon and was generally not feeling like 'me'. No problem..but now I have a nasty headache. If these are indeed symptoms of the Clomid doing its job, Gum, then bring it on, I say smile

Hugs to all of you. How are you, Irish, Eirehead, Cheese & Somewhere? xx

goldengirl71 Tue 16-Oct-12 17:36:00

I do wish the 'c' on my laptop would stop sticking. 'Bisuit' was supposed to be biscuit!

littlepinkfizz Tue 16-Oct-12 19:39:37

Loving the breasticles there gum ! grin

goth wish I was more like you and not stressing too much. Must admit to being more relaxed this month even though only cd5 but DP has faithfully promised to Dtd every other day during fertile period so that's all I can ask. Will be using opk's though as didn't get a smiley until day 17 last mouth. Dtd then but still bfn . Sometimes I wonder if I should bother at all with them.

golden glad you got a few zzz's under the drier and came out looking stunning! Hopefully the Clomid will do its job.

hopefulgum Wed 17-Oct-12 00:15:07

Morning all. Boy do I feel like shite. My DS, who we are progressing to his own bed (at 4 years old, it is about time) woke up 4 times last night and wanted mummy. I feel wretched after such a disturbed night - feels alot like having a small baby actually. Perhaps it is the universes/god/whatever's way of testing to see if I really do want to do it all again. Well, I feel like crap, but I say "bring it on". Nice high temp this morning, but not sure I can trust it because I'd been up two hours before. But I don't care, I put it in my chart anyway and it looks lovelysmile

I'm glad you did get your hair done,*Golden*, I think a fresh do does help a girl feel pretty. I love getting my hair done, but can't afford to do it more than once every three months. My hairdresser, Jason, is gorgeous (actually not at all like a hairdresser, very down to earth, we talk about gardening,kids,animals), and I love being pampered,and having dead straight hair for a couple of days (my hair is very curly). I love the feeling of sleek,straight,shiny hair. If I were loaded (with cash) I'd get a blow job (dry) done every week. I'm hopeless at straightening it myself and couldn't manage the time it takes anyway.

Well, as per usual,I have to run and get ready for work.
I'm taking my DS to the dentist for his first filling (bad parent emoticon), and I'm really not looking forward to it. There is a lovely lady dentist who specialises in little children, so hopefully it won't be too dreadful, and the drugs will help him sleep properly tonight.

notsoold, I use opk's and I'm very slack with how I do it. I don't do any of the not drinking too much,waiting to pee etc, I just do one in the afternoon, and it is looking darkish, repeat it later on until I see it is positive. I even get positives in the morning (when apparently it isn't possible?). So don't worry too much, buy a big bundle of internet cheapies and test away. There's no way my DH and I could be DTD every second day (he's 51), and I don't feel like it, so the opk's are the way to go. I used to have a fertility monitor, which was excellent actually, because you use first morning wee, and it tells you when you are running up to ovulation. But I did find buying the sticks to put into it very expensive, and can't buy them in Australia, so I sold it on ebay.

Better go.Have a lovely day/evening/morning, whatever it is over there...grin

hopefulgum Wed 17-Oct-12 00:16:00

golden, I don't know why sometimes your name won't come up bold even though I put stars either side of it?

JBrd Wed 17-Oct-12 09:46:17

Morning all! I've been too quiet for too long - again! Just can't find the energy to write on here, but I love reading all your posts.

Hope you are all well, given the circumstances... I've seen some heartbreaking posts in the last few weeks, I hope you are all coping with what life is throwing at you at the moment.

Thanks so much for you kind kind words about my sh** job situation, goldengirl and hopefulgum, I have to admit that I shed a couple of tears because you hit the nail(s) on the head(s) with your comments, and it felt so nice that there's someone who understands my conflict!
I have since then decided that I am going actively start looking for something else. I know I've only been in the current place for 4-5 months, but I really can't see it improving - the baseline being that it's not what I want to do! So time for reflection and soul-searching, trying to figure out what else there is for me.
I thought I might stick it out until I get pregnant, then at least I'd have maternity pay and a job to go back to - but I've come to the conclusion that even if I got pregnant today, I'd still have to be in this job for another 8 months or so, and the thought of that is just agony! Life's too short! So I'm taking the plunge... As DH always says 'it'll be alright, we will be alright'. He's so supportive in all this, thankfully.

Otherwise no 'big' news, sigh... I'm charting away, and after being a bit doubtful at the start, I'm starting to see my graph making sense. Still a bit hmm because my OPK was positive on Saturday, so I expected my temp to start going up the day after (it says everywhere that you are most likely to ovulate within 24hrs after a positive OPK), but my temp only started rising between Monday and Tuesday - is that common? It's still on the up today, so I'm wondering if I ovulated on Monday? When we didn't dtd, go figure!
Been very good in the run-up though, however, the downside being that today I woke up with a bladder infection sad. So no work for me today, but ouchy ouch! Hate them! Oh, and a thought occured to me just now - could this be the reason for my temp rising...? This is all so confusing <<scuttles off to find the hot water bottle and to read up on FertilityFriend>>

TinaO99 Wed 17-Oct-12 10:20:32

arghhhh just when i thought i could relax now I'm stressing about my lack of symptoms, I want sore boobs and I've got normal boobs, I want to feel sick and i feel fine, I even did another pregnancy test on Monday that said I was 3+ weeks and I almost don't believe it. Just spoke to a nurse at care who tried to reassure me but I know I'm going to be worried for the next 2 weeks until I have my first scan
does this worry never end?! confused

goldengirl71 Wed 17-Oct-12 10:47:33

Pink, good luck with your rabbit-like DTD! It must be even worse getting a BFN when you've shagged like billy-o for what seems like forever. Oh, and I didn't look 'stunning' when I emerged from the hairdressers; I am currently attempting to grow my pixie crop and it's that horrid no-style length which the hairdresser insisted on blow-drying yesterday and sending me onto the streets with a beautifully-platinum but crap helmet-head blush

Gum, how the hell have you and your hubby managed to have sex these past four years with little Charlie in your bed?! shock Can't you swaddle him tightly, play radio white-noise and put tape over his mouth? Or is that abuse? hmm I, too, am trying to get in to see the dentist. Last night, whilst chewing madly on a treacle toffee, yet another piece of tooth fell away (that's two this month) leaving stalactites of pain. I wish I hadn't done so much amphetamine in my 20s & 30s sad
Gum, I think maybe my name wasn't emboldened in your other post because you didn't leave a space between the first asterisk and the previous word. I also fail to embolden someone's name if I put it in brackets.

Re OPKs: I keep reading that positives in the morning are not to be trusted as the level of LH in the urine is always elevated in the mornings anyway around the fertile window. So, for an accurate result, they advise testing only between 11am and 8pm, with 3pm being the optimum time for accurate readings.

JBrd, I really feel for you with your job situation but it is something you must not procrastinate over. Shit jobs can ruin our quality of life and self-esteem and make us doubt ourselves with a ferocity that becomes real in our mind. What happened with your career workshop? Knowing what you want to do is obviously half the battle - you don't need me to tell you that. Can you afford to retrain? How does college/voluntary work sound? an your DP afford to support you whilst you 'test some waters'? Remember...your job is not who you are. It does not reflect what you are capable of as a human being. When you die, you will not be remembered for how well you did your job. Good luck, love x

goldengirl71 Wed 17-Oct-12 10:58:56

JBrd, a positive OPK indicates that ovulation is imminent - between 24 and 36 hours away. However, the Clearblue smileys used to give me a positive two whole days before ovulation. So, if your positive OPK was on Saturday, you may have ovulated on Monday. You will know this is the case if your temperature dipped slightly on Monday and then rose considerably and remained higher from Tuesday. In other words, a sustained rise in temperature indicates you ovulated the day before. Feel free to look at my charts: www.fertilityfriend.com/home/goldengirl71

goldengirl71 Wed 17-Oct-12 11:01:32

Tina, poor you. I know how feverishly you want those symptoms but you must stay rational. You know that lots and lots of women go through their first trimester feeling no symptoms whatsoever. No twinges, no sore boobs, no sickness, no tiredness. Please have faith x

hopefulgum Wed 17-Oct-12 12:16:31

Golden, you're kidding, right? We've had plenty of sex, without the child in the bed,over the last four years (we there's a will...). You see, the "nursery", or DS's bedroom, has always had a double bed in it, and he'd be asleep in it, etc,etc. We certainly didn't have sex in the same bed as our son.

I've co-slept with three of my five kids, and it's never been an issue. However, I do admit that having my DH sleeping beside me nightly has made having sex less"scheduled" and a bit more spontaneous.

I am sure Charlie will get used to sleeping alone, and I accept it may take some time. It was worth all the uninterrupted sleep I had while he was really little. Getting up and feeding a baby for hours, 5 times a night is torture. Laying in bed, sleeping whilst baby munched on my boob was preferable. But it isn't for everyone and I believe everyone should just do what works for them.

Tina, try not to worry. The 3+ on the pregnancy test is great! Remember, "FTYAP". Every pregnancy is different and many women do not get sore boobs or other symptoms, and sometimes no morning sickness, or it doesn't kick in until later. Hang in there.

DS went really well at the dentist. She was amazing, and although it cost $300shock, she was truly amazing with him and he experienced no discomfort and smiled all the way through and sat still.Amazing. Fortunately I will get some money back from our insurance company, I have to send off the receipt.

littlepinkfizz Wed 17-Oct-12 12:32:17

Wow gum 5 kids! If I manage to get a BFP, this will be my 5th( 2nd with DP). He is really keen, but 50 and I do worry...

notsoold Wed 17-Oct-12 15:49:15

golden , I can certainly do the OPKs like that...I have the smilyes ones and always thought (after reading loads of threads ) that you had to go without (loo,water etc) for hours...so thanks hun!! smile

hopeful my heart goes to you as I love my sleep. But they do lean fast dont't they? We never co slept but most of my relatives (vast numbers as they are) did and do and seems to be a relaxed way of doing things!!!They always use the vast amount of activities-to get them tired- , the idea of ownership (new personal blanket etc) and off the kids went!!!

pink your DH is younger than mine (53 but who is counting?) I always worry more my side (being 41) and get told off by my relatives (yet again) as aunties, cousins etc all had children until late forties (48 is the latest). but I worry if might not go like that for me... (also at 48 my boobs are going to be so wrinkly that no way will I be able to breatfeed in public smile smile)

Tina that is excellent! Not everybody has symptoms. I didn't at all and the result is a gorgeous (and strong willed) 18years old DD!!! but to say to you to not worry is not going to work so here is my virtual hand!!!

JBird it is really difficult , I totally agree...I am still working and retraining as a Beauty therapist. I went to a beauty fair and boy did I feel old near the 17/18yo...but I totally second what golden told you. smile

Well , you all gave me another boost. I can go without water or loo for 2 hours and today at 5pm I will have a meeting with Mr Smiley !!!! All this sex for a baby is a killer...smile but could be worse I suppose ;)

hopefulgum Wed 17-Oct-12 23:37:19

notsoold, I know what you mean "All this sex for a baby is a killer...smile but could be worse I suppose ;)", but it will totally be worth it in the end,won't it. I know with my DS, I was very concerned that I wouldn't get pregnant (I was 41 and DH had to have a vasectomy reversal), and it took 7 months of ttc (I realise now, that was very quick), but by the time I got the BFP, I was glad not to have to have sex again for some timegrin

It is very heart-warming to hear that many of your relatives had babies in their late 40's. I do think it is possible, it is just that it can take a long time to get the right egg and sperm together. I still have faith that it could happen for me.

It probably sound a bit (or a lot) greedy that I want a 6th child, but for me it would be the icing on the cake. I just have a feeling I am meant to have 6 kids and have felt this way for ages. But if it doesn't happen, at least I know I really did give it my best shot (over three years of trying with a DH who isn't keen,just lazywink).

Golden, how are you going with the clomid - feeling okay? You must be coming up to ovulation soon?

DS slept better last night,thank goodness, I only got up to him twice and then he came in at 5.15, which isn't too bad. I am an early riser, so I didn't mind. I know he'll get better at this,and we'll be glad we persevered.

Well, I need to go and enter my temperature into fertility friend and dream about popping a + test on there in about a week's time.smileWouldn't that be lovely?

TinaO99 Thu 18-Oct-12 09:32:45

thanks notsoold (and everyone else) I've read loads of stuff from women who didn't have symptoms, I'm trying not to worry but I guess I'm basing this pregnancy on my previous experiences which always involved a certain set of symptoms but this one is different in so many ways I guess I shouldn't be surprised my symptoms are different too!

I did another test this morning to reassure myself and it still said 3+ weeks on it so I shouldn't be worrying so much! I tell you something my moods are vicious at the moment (maybe that is a symptom!!) dh went out with work last night, first time in ages and because he wasn't home before 11pm when i was shattered and needed to sleep I almost had to restrain myself from wrapping a frying pan around his head, bless him he got on the last bus at 12 and cam home even though everyone else was still out - did I feel bad...no!!!

goldengirl71 Thu 18-Oct-12 12:39:29

Fucking hell (sorry for the profanity) I've had enough! Just got back from the dentist who said he wasn't at all surprised that I haven't fallen pregnant with all the infection coursing round my body - not to mention the ever-crumbling mercury I'm ingesting - from this damned infected tooth. This same tooth was first problematic back in January but I had just got my BFP and the dentist wouldn't touch it due to the amount of x-rays and work required but told me to return when I had had the baby. So...the first thing he said was 'congratulations! Did you have a boy or a girl?' sad

He needs to extract the offending tooth next Thursday and on the same day needs to perform root canal work on another tooth which broke off the other day whilst eating treacle toffee. He has given me antibiotics for the next five days to make the infection manageable. He asked me (actually ^asked me^) not to ttc until he has finished all the work next Thursday (I ovulate Tuesday). He can piss off. I am upset, though, that he may be right regarding my immume system being shattered with infection coursing, unchecked, through my body for months. Could this have affected my ability to conceive?

So..I am on antibiotics and will undergo extensive trauma next week (his words, not mine). Not holding out much hope for a baby this cycle, then sad

JBrd Thu 18-Oct-12 14:51:41

Sorry to hear that you've got yet another thing to deal with, golden! When it rains, it pours, doesn't it? But the dentist might be right, any infection puts a lot of strain on your body and immune system, and having one could well contribute to problems conceiving. So sorting this out could really give conception a boost.

A friend of mine had the problem that her body was so geared up on the immune defense front that it kept fighting off her DH's sperm as intruders, making ttc very difficult for them.
Who knows? I really think that there are still so many dark areas and unknowns when it comes to the 'science' of conception. Probably because it's actually quite difficult to find volunteers to do research on grin

So fertility friend today confirmed what I suspected - apparently I ovulated on Monday. The one day since my positive OPK that we didn't dtd, grrrrrr - because I was too shattered that day angry. Dtd Sunday and Tuesday, though, so what are my odds...?

Entering another two-week-wait, sigh...

goldengirl71 Thu 18-Oct-12 16:05:16

JBrd, I reckon if you got your smiley OPK on the Saturday you ovulated really early on Monday morning, meaning Sunday's sperm was perfectly placed for a juicy mating sesh. Good luck.

CaliBee Thu 18-Oct-12 17:50:11

I have to admit that I feel a little bit embarrassed to admit on here that I still love the " baby making sex". I guess my sex drive has always been high, and I still enjoy it almost everyday blush
Tina it sounds to me like you do maybe have a few symtpoms albeit subtle ones. I remember doing 12 tests when I realised I may be pregnant with my eldest daughter....however at the tender age of just 19 I think I was probably wishing and hoping that they were wrong. How things change hey?? Bizaare how I spent the last 15 years (since my son) frantically trying not to become pregnant and now all this.
JBrd I agree with our Golden...I think your Sunday Sex will have given you as good a chance as any. Fingers crossed for you.
Raaa Golden I bet you're peed off with the timing of that one.? I can understand you saying "sod it" about putting off ttc.
I was reading Zita Wests book earlier and was really interested to read that drinking alcohol is considered particularly bad in the 5 days prior to ovulation. Last month my temps showed ovulation whilst at Nottinghill Carnival where I shamefacedly admit I got completely and utterley pickled.....no wonder my progesterone result last cycle was an unhealthily low (12.7) the poor eggy probably drowned blush

littlepinkfizz Thu 18-Oct-12 21:15:05

Poor golden but maybe the infection explains your rising temp. As jbrd said, it could well give your chances a real boost! It initially sounds like bad news but I'd be very positive about it! Keep shagging! grin

I got a smiley last month on cd 17. Does that mean I'm likely to get a smiley that day this cycle also? AF came 13 days after the smiley. Not sure what all this means. When should we be Dtd?

hopefulgum Thu 18-Oct-12 23:42:42

Golden, honey I am so sorry this is happening to you, it really sucks. But I think ultimately it may help you conceive if you can sort it all out. Did the dentist say why you shouldn't ttc this cycle? If you are aware of any risks, then you can make an educated decision about whether to go ahead and ttc. Like you,I would probably say "sod it" and continue ttc.

pinkfizz, It is hard to say when you'll ovulate this month, so many things can change the O date. Have you always had a 30 day cycle? If you have, then it is likely you'll ovulate around day 17 again, so you should probably start the shagging in earnest around day 12,every other day til you get a smiley face again,then every chance you can getgrin.

Feel good story for you.A colleague of mine told the story of how shocked and horrified her sister was to find out she was pregnant at age 42, 16 years after her last baby! She had a healthy little girl and is besotted, but apparently had a terrible time accepting that she actually could get pregnant. Lucky woman!

CaliBee Fri 19-Oct-12 07:39:34

Morning all.
I couldnt resist a test this morning (12dpo).....BFN, I'm so dissapointed as it would have been the best present ever to give OH before training up North starts on 28th. Sorest boobies ever this cycle as well, I really thought there was a chance. Oh well, thats me out for a while now sad

hopefulgum Fri 19-Oct-12 08:55:25

Oh calibee, I am so sorry. I know you must feel very disappointed.however, there's still a chance that you are testing early, some women don't get appositive til 17 dpo.

How long will your DP be away?I hope it isn't too long. It is a pity sperm can't be sent home in vials to do home insemination, sure would make life easier.

My boobs don't seem as sore, so at only 6 dpo, I am feeling less than hopeful.

How is everyone else getting on?

goldengirl71 Fri 19-Oct-12 09:42:35

Hiya girls. Calibee, what a total bummer. I am so sorry. I don't know what else to say to put a silver lining around your cloud - keep yourself healthy in body and mind whilst your fella is away so that when he is home you know you've done everything to prepare your body. There will more opportunities to try for a baby; time will go quicker than you think - be sure to keep your body primed x

Tina, a frying pan can do a lot of damage to a man's head. A heavy dictionary hurled at force is less likely to kill, just maim not that I would have experience of these things

Thank you, Gum, Pink, Calibee, Notsoold & JBrd for your sympathies. I'm such a wuss. I have come to stay at my mum's to remind myself that others are suffering with pain and declining health much more serious than my stupid teeth and ovaries.

Calibee, don't be ashamed to admit you are still enjoying trying to conceive with your young, nubile, fit, black soldier. Who the hell wouldn't? wink
For me, the longer time ticks by without a pregnancy and the more pressure DP and I put ourselves under - and the impact that has on his erectile dysfunction - the less enjoyment we are getting from 'baby-making' around ovulation. There is huge emotional & psychological baggage tied to our lovemaking around this time - will he maintain his erection? Will he be able to ejaculate? Am I doing enough to stimulate him mentally and visually? Are there any other tricks I can be seducing him with? Is there anything else on his mind I can get him to share? Is there a position we haven't tried which can sustain his erection easier? Can he fucking hurry up and get the bastard sperm in me, like, NOW? Aside from this - and I think this is hugely significant - as recovering alcoholics we can not drink - ever. Not even one glass of anything. Not ever. Would any of you relish the thought of a lifetime of sex with your other halves without alcohol - ever? It's a bloody nightmare. There are so many things you can do and say during sex when you've had a drink which seem impossible when you're humping away, sober, for the fourth time that week.

Sorry...I've blathered again. Please forgive. Gum, thanks for the encouraging tale from your colleague's sister. What joy! I so want you to fall pregnant, my love x

goldengirl71 Fri 19-Oct-12 09:49:10

Ooh, I'm on CD11 and looking forward to my scan on Monday, where I am sure to see not one but three 18mm follicles fit to burst with eggs with a physiological age of a 21 year-old. I will return from the scan to a naked DP, choking on Viagra, who will proceed to fill me with luscious sperm every hour, on the hour, for the next thirty-six hours grin

goldengirl71 Fri 19-Oct-12 09:51:47

Mia'sMum, how are you coping after Monday, love? x

littlepinkfizz Fri 19-Oct-12 10:31:07

I love your sense of humour golden in the face of all your worries! We can't take alcohol either as I'm on medication and DP Viagra so know how you feel to some little extent . Enjoy your mums x

Love.y story gum! My cycle is usually 28/29 days so as you suggested as I am now on cd 8 we will start Dtd every other day from Tuesday or Wednesday til the Viagra runs out( he only gets 4 per month!!!!! I mean who only shags once a month?)

Poor calibee fx it was just too early.

Been thinking bout you also miasmummy <hugs>

goldengirl71 Fri 19-Oct-12 10:52:04

Ah, Pink, I usually can find something to laugh at in the midst of my melancholy naval-gazing. I am such a neurotic, anxious person at times - highly alert and highly-strung and more than a little bonkers but boy, do I like to laugh grin

Gum, I forgot to answer your question about the dentist asking me not to ttc until his work is done (gosh! he sounds Messianic). He said that a combination of the antibiotics I am on plus the x-rays he'll be taking and the trauma my mouth will go through will not be conducive to a healthy conception. And how's about this for weird: when I got pregnant in January I had just finished a course of antibiotics for an infected gland on my head (behind the ear). I went on to miscarry, of course sad

woollywomble Fri 19-Oct-12 11:15:21

pinkfizz ermm, in the past, once a month was quite good going for us.....blush think we need to up our game a bit now though! (Although DH has already stated that weeknights are out as he's too tired after work - I sense he's making excuses now sad). Reassuring though to hear that my DH is not the only one in his 50s and/or experiencing performance anxiety!

Hope your tooth is sorted soon GG - constant toothache is awful. If it's any consolation, after my first mc I had to have dental work done under general anaesthetic and couldn't ttc for a while but then got a BFP the next month which resulted in DC2.

I've finally stopped bleeding 3 weeks post mc now, so am in limbo with regards to my cycle. Any ideas on when I should try an ov predictor? If DH can only be persuaded to dtd on weekends, let's hope it coincides!

goldengirl71 Fri 19-Oct-12 11:34:06

Oh, Womble, it's simply not fair when a man says 'no' to sex at certain times just because he's 'tired'. Not when you're trying for a baby. As far as I'm concerned, unless a man's cock is bleeding after having been savaged by a neighbour's rottweiler he needs to bloody well step up to the plate and at least try to get some sperm where it needs to be when ovulation is imminent. Do you have a heavy dictionary to hand? wink

shock and smile at your BFP after completion of dental work. Yaaaay!!

By 'ov predictor' do you mean OPKs? I start weeing on them on CD13 usually, knowing I ov on CD15. Maybe you should start when your cervical mucus changes to creamy? Just a thought.

Hi all. Drained after Mia's inquest only finished yesterday, so haven't been too focussed on anything else. Yesterday, the coroner delivered a narrative verdict regarding Mia's death, rather than simply a death by natural causes. While it didn't go quite as far as we had hoped, in that no specific neglect or failure on behalf of the hospital was noted, the most important sentences for us were these - "the serious nature of her condition was not recognised' and "her impending arrest was not recognised". He also criticised the hospital for not having senior paediatric staff on site to take the necessary treatment decisions. Further, under Rule 43, where a coroner can specify actions be taken to prevent future deaths, the coroner requires the hospital to undertake an immediate review into its paediatric care and management for seriously ill children, particularly out-of-hours, weekends and bank holidays. We are pleased with this, but have concerns as well, as the hospital has made changes previously which failed for Mia.

The inquest highlighted two potential diagnoses of her symptoms - unfortunately, the hospital treated the wrong one. As we already knew, Mia's port-mortem revealed that she had a bacterial growth on her otherwise healthy heart. While very rare, expert witnesses did feel this would have been treatable, if only her symptoms had been recognised... They were unable to give a better prognosis of survival more than short-to-medium term, however. sad But Mia didn't even have that chance. The inquest also showed that opportunities did exist earlier to intervene in Mia's decline, using routine medical procedures, but sadly these were not taken... However, we respect the coroner's verdict, and do feel that he has been very pro-active in establishing the facts around Mia's death.

Love you forever, darling girl. We have tried to do our very, very best for you.

goldengirl71 Fri 19-Oct-12 12:34:29

Oh, Mia, how heartbreaking. I hope blessings are showered upon your family and that you find peace with the efforts you have made to unpack the circumstances surrounding the death of your darling daughter. Much love xx

littlepinkfizz Fri 19-Oct-12 12:44:27

That is harrowing miasmummy . Mia knows you did your very very best and love her xx

CaliBee Fri 19-Oct-12 19:55:57

How horrid for you miasmummy....you take care of yourself x
Thanks to all for your comments re my negative test. I Have just bought chocolate, crisps and pistachios to drown my sorrows in. No alcohol and feeling just a little bit proud of myself.

hopefulgum Sat 20-Oct-12 00:13:35

Miasmummy, you must feel exhausted after the inquest, take very good care of yourself and DH. I hope the coroner's findings will mean better care in future for seriously ill children, though I know it is no consolation for you.Sending love your way.

woolywomble, it may take a while for your cycle to settle, though some women are right back into cycle straight away. DO you have the internet cheapie opk's? IF you don't I suggest you order some so that you can pee on them everyday for a while,as cycles can be so unpredictable after a mc.

I woke up to a massive hike in my temperature this morning, but I'll just put that down to taking my temperature half an hour later and won't read anything into it (massive liar emoticon).grin

hopefulgum Sat 20-Oct-12 00:14:25

wooly, I am sorry, I didn't mean to shout at the beginning of my sentences, it's my sticky keyboard.

lotsofcheese Sat 20-Oct-12 10:00:03

Morning everyone, haven't checked in for a while as been away on a short break with DP & DS. Was terrified of m/c the entire time we were there sad I'm 10 weeks today according to my last scan, pregnancy symptoms are few & inconsistent, so am metalling constantly about mmc - it's around this stage that it went wrong last time sad Got another scan on Wednesday afternoon & I'll find out for sure. I just don't feel pregnant & don't feel I'm getting any bigger, which I was last time, even with mmc at 11.5 weeks (heart had stopped in early 9's).

Anyway enough self-indulgence from me!

miasmummy was so sad to read your update about the inquest; it must have been heartbreaking to listen to the evidence & know that things could have been done differently. Mia knows that you loved her with all your heart & did your very best for her..

golden I wouldn't let dental work stop me ttc - if it's your fertile days, go for it. I'm pretty sure half the population has been conceived under the influence of something - alcohol, or worse.

hopeful Glad you had a great holiday, Rottnest looked so idyllic. Fingers crossed that temp stays high!!

Calibee enjoy your last few days with your man before he joins up. Have you tested again?

Sorry I've not namechecked everyone - been trying to catch up on too many posts at once & brains are scrambled eggs!

goldengirl71 Sat 20-Oct-12 10:14:00

Gum, I, too,woke up to a hike in temperature on CD12 shock I do hope this Clomid hasn't caused an early ovulation - we haven't had sex for days [stamps feet and wails]

goldengirl71 Sat 20-Oct-12 10:18:38

Cheese, we crossed posts. I'm sorry you're anxious and feeldoom-laden. I hope the days until Wednesday fly by and that you are ecstatic when you come out of that scan. Much love x

Gum, aren't you on 7DPO? What, then, would a hike in temp signify at this stage? Are you thinking maybe triphasic?

hopefulgum Sat 20-Oct-12 10:41:04

Well, yes, I do like to think triphasic, but I would not make that conclusion after one high temp. It has gone from 36.67 to 36.89, and ,for me, that is a big difference. I know it may mean nothing at all, but at this stage I am hopeful, I might as well be for a bit longer. FF says I'm 7 dpo, but I think maybe 6.

cheese,hang in there, you will have another scan done soon. I really do appreciate how you feel, having been in your shoes before. The scans are reassuring, but at the same time I worried that the scan would reveal my greatest fears. I wish I could reassure you, but I know there,s really nothing I can say. FTYAP, and you are 10 weeks, which is fantastic. Hugs.

golden why are you worried about early ovulation? Have you had a temperature rise? Are you peeing on opks?

goldengirl71 Sat 20-Oct-12 10:47:27

Gum, that is a whopping hike! I would be bloody excited (but remember..I was triphasic last month)

I have had a temp rise from 36.03 to 36.29. Today is CD12. I'm expecting to ovulate on CD15, as usual (or even later due to Clomid). I'm at my mum's miles away from home and didn't bring my OPK sticks. Dp and I haven't had sex for days and even then he ejaculated on my tits [waaaaaaail!]

goldengirl71 Sat 20-Oct-12 10:49:22

Help! My temp hike is even bigger than yours, Gum! I don't want to have ovulated yet!! sad

lotsofcheese Sat 20-Oct-12 11:58:28

Thanks for the kind words, hopeful I really am driving myself potty! For the last few days I have been obsessively trying on my tightest pair of work trousers, seeing if I've "grown" out of them or not!

I'll be back at work work next week, which will hopefully take my mind off things. Before I declare myself neurotic & insane blush

hopefulgum Sat 20-Oct-12 23:38:46

golden,that is a reasonable temp jump, but how does it compare to previous months' before ovulation temperatures? Mine vary from 36.17 to 36.38 this month(not as big a difference to yours) but I usually have temperatures over 36.4 in the luteal phase. I guess it really depends on whether your temperature remains raised over three days.

I'm not getting very excited about the temp hike I had, this morning's temp wasn't as high (36.82), but still high enough. I won't know either way til this time next week.I'm going to try and hold off testing until then. Sometimes I feel like there's a good chance I am pregnant, then I think, I don't really feel like I am.

My life is pretty darn busy so I won't be dwelling on it. I spent hours in the garden yesterday, and plan to do some more before heading off to the beach.The forecast is for a beautiful 30 degrees C, so I reckon we'll swim.

CaliBee Sun 21-Oct-12 19:38:32

Hey all...hope everybody had a good weekend.
Well I am now 14dpo but testing BFN...weird that my temps are still up but I'm sure af will get me very shortly. Not too sure what my usual lutel phase is but last cycle it was 12 days.
Aww hopeful the beach is my favourite place. Here in the UK we have just been forecast a steady decline during this week to 6 degrees by Friday. Raaaa.

Irishmammybread Sun 21-Oct-12 21:04:45

Hi everyone,
Calibee sorry to hear about your BFN though is it worth retesting in a day or two if your temps stay high? With my last pregnancy I got a BFN with FMU on d 14po and that evening was persuaded by DD1 to get tickets to bring her to Justin Bieber in February. Two days later my temps were still high and there was no sign on AF so I tested again ,mid afternoon on an internet cheapie and got a BFP, a clearblue digi the next day said preg 2-3 weeks!
I thought I'd get out of the concert as I should have been due in March but unfortunately now I've miscarried I've no excuse not to go (sad) .

Miasmum, sounds like you had a really traumatic time going through Mia's inquest, my heart goes out to you. It must have been so difficult hearing mistakes were made that could have maybe affected the outcome. I hope you have some sort of closure now and you have peace to grieve your beautiful little daughter. xxx

Goldengirl I don't think I've posted since you got your your Clomid, hurray! Hopefully it will do the trick (once your dental problems are sorted out!)

Gum glad you had a good holiday, exciting to hear about your possible triphasic chart. It sounds very sensible to keep busy and try not to obsess about it but it's not easy!
I have to confess to being in the 2ww too. I know we were supposed to be waiting a few mths to decide whether to ttc....but we didn't! I'm now 3dpo and have been taking aspirin daily since my AF a few weeks ago,as advised,we'll see what happens this time.

Hippy I didn't see your post about baby loss awareness week until after the event, but what a lovely sentiment to light a candle in remembrance .
It's my due date from my first miscarriage tomorrow and I'm going to Church, I'll light a candle for all our little lost ones while I'm there.

Sorry not to name check everyone, I'm trying to catch up!

hopefulgum Sun 21-Oct-12 23:20:28

Hello Irish - I'm glad you have ttc-ed this month.Fingers crossed for you.

Calibee - the fact that AF hasn't turned up is a good sign.Will you test again tomorrow? I've got everything crossed for you too.

It does look like I have a triphasic chart. I had a lovely 36.92 this morning,and have to confess to having "tingly" breasts yesterday - sort of like the let down feeling you get when breastfeeding - I've only had that before when I have been pregnant. But I know how much the body can play tricks on me,and how I shouldn't read too much into it. I'll just wait and see what my chart does, if temps remain high after 12 dpo,it is a good sign, but no guarantee. I think I'm only 8 dpo today,FF says 9, so I have a few days to wait yet.

How is everyone else?

Deige, any news on that job you applied for?

hippychick66 Sun 21-Oct-12 23:21:35

Just a quick post for miasmum - just read your post about the inquest. So sad to read. My goodness you are such a strong woman. Sending all my love to you and your DH and your gorgeous little bump. X

CaliBee Mon 22-Oct-12 07:54:08

Raaaaaaaa.....af arrived. Painful and heavy. Going back to bed hmphhh.....

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 09:44:14

Morning all smile Gum it's looking really good on the temp front isn't it! I'd hold off testing if I were you and go on temps for now.
Miasmummy You are being so strong and have been throguh so much. I really feel for you, and at the same time am amazed at how wonderful you have been in dealing with the inquest. Thinking of you xxx
Golden how goes it with the clomid/temps? I would also forego the advice to abstain from ttc-ing for dentistry work - you don't need that bit of advice on top of everything else!
Irish fingers crossed for you for this month!
Cheese is it this Weds you have your scan? Totally understand your anxiety, having been there (as have most of us on this thread). We'll get the snug helicopter out to accompany you, if Hippy is happy to pilot as she usually does? xx
Calibee ahh blast it, sorry for af sad Even when you half expect your hopes start rising again every day it stays away. Hope it's not too bad a one x

Ok here, though having a bit of a moral dilemma... Dh has said that he would love another baby but thinks we have too 'much on' in the sense that his dm is ill/he is stressed at work etc. We had 'the talk' at the weekend (so much for my softly softly approach) at the weekend and he's still saying the same thing sad I know that if I was to get pregnant we would cope as his heart says yes (his words) but he's worried about the usual day to day stuff. My job is very secure, and have a new one to apply for (not applied yet gum, just looking at the form grin, deadline 10/11) plus have taken on some consultancy work that brings in an extra £150 a mth on top of salary. So financially we're actually sorted, plus ds1 starts school sept so will be one nursery fee down. Would it be naughty of me to be a little 'casual' with the temping??? Is that very wrong? blush I just don't want to look back in the future and think that rubbish imagined worries stopped us from at least trying to ttc (and I feel dh might regret it too going on what he says). What would you do? confused

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 10:13:06

Gum, when you're excited..we're excited. I know you say you're not - and that is very sensible - but it's hard not to have raised hopes along with raised temps. DO NOT TEST YET.

Calibee, frigging bummer. AF is particularly nasty when you've endured a 14 day luteal phase. I'm so sorry sad

Irish, you are entirely sensible ttc. It's the right thing to do - you go, girl! [shakes pom-poms]

Diege, you know the answer to this one, sweetie: of course you must temp - just to see how your hormones are behaving. How old are you and how old is your youngest? You need to be checking everything is working so get your thermometer out and go buy your vitamins and a saucy outfit for the boudoir

Oof! Big, juicy dark line on the OPK just now. I'm off to the hospital for my first Clomid scan at 4pm. I'm very excited but I must stop fantasising that there will be multiple fit-to-burst follicles on the screen just waiting to pop out some potential babies [greedy emotion].

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 10:21:22

Thanks Golden grin. I am 42 (43 in May) Youngest dc will be 1 next Sunday.Tbh I have been temping all along for contraceptive purposes, so know I have a distinct shift after ov, and a luteal phase of around 11/12 days. So it would just a be a case of making a teeny 'adjustment' shall we say in the days the deed is done blush. Oh dear, am feeling very guilty even contemplating... Best of luck this afternoon. Exciting to at least be doing something positive when we usually have so little control. Make sure you report back asap!

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 10:58:59

Look, Diege, what is there to feel guilty about? When you've been a member on a thread like this and you're 42 it would take a very unusual woman to be nonchalant about having a last child, especially when you're financially secure with a DH who would secretly like another. It's a no-brainer. You've travelled too many paths of other women's pain on here to be able to merrily ignore the desire for another of your own when the offer is more or less on the table. Go for it, girl.

You're right about the excitement that comes with having 'professsionals' dealing with my fertility. I don't feel so out of control. I feel listened to. I feel like I'm moving forward. The only side effect I've had from the Clomid is a distinct rise in my libido. Quite extraordinary - and very, very welcome.

I will report back as soon as I have completed my four-hour round-trip odyssey on public transport to the hospital.

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 11:30:02

grin I'm liking yout train of thought Golden. If dh were adamant he didn't want another baby because he didn't want another addition to the family, I think that would be something quite different from citing abstract worries about practical things that haven't happened yet...Of course, wanting to ttc and actually coming up with the bfp are as we know all too well, vastly different things... Hmmm, lots to think about.
Interesting about clomid and rise in libido! Is that a recognised side effect, or perhaps related to the thought that it's another step closer to the bfp? I can strangely feel my libido dragging itself off the ground in light of my recent musings grin

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 12:50:15

Diege, no, it isn't on the list of side effets which the consultant gave me, but I haven't been able to keep my hands off DP and feel so loved-up it's pathetic. This does not happen to me around ovulation - quite the opposite, in fact. There is too much psychological baggage being hauled around with DP's erectile dysfunction issues for me to feel in the least bit horny. I have also been preternaturally wet & watery for three days now, although no EWCM (a drying-up of cervical mucus is one recognised down-side of Clomid but I am considering putting a lilo in my knickers and going for a paddle) shock

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 12:52:46

Diege, act now...our chances of conceiving each cycle drops to an alarming 1% when we hit 43 sad

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 12:54:26

I'm sorry - I would dearly love to remove my last post as it doesn't help any of us. Fuck the statistics and think of Lolfactor smile

littlepinkfizz Mon 22-Oct-12 14:01:41

What?? Only 1 %? Fuck that then. I'm 42. No chance saloon then for me. That's me out. Wasting money on opk's and frer tests. Fuck you Mother Nature angry

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 14:51:33

Lots of chances littlefizz!!! Ok, maybe not 'lots' but certainly there ARE chances, and you're more likely to be in the 1% (my consultant quoted between 5- 15% chance per cycle up to 45 - after that 1-2% - that's based on his own stats admittedly) if you use opks and temp etc etc.
Hmm, 6mths before I'm 43...decisions, decisions...wink

littlepinkfizz Mon 22-Oct-12 15:22:22

I'm on cd 11 today and have really slippery cm which is very stretchy.it looks like ewcm but no smiley this morning. I feel the cb opk is wrong. Could I be right? Dtd yesterday and planning for every other day til next week. Probably just fooling myself and will manage to Dtd on the wrong days.sad

Sorry for being so pessimistic

catdoctor Mon 22-Oct-12 15:36:53

Hello all, havn't been following you ladies for a while due to work frying my brain. I hope I can still pick your brains.

I think I was on last but last but last but one thread - you lot are impressively communicative.

Me 44, DS 2, have just finally stopped bf after long drawn out wean. I'm on 6th cycle now. Started with lp's of 9 days, started agnus castus and B6 but that cycle (5th) got ovulation cd23 (normally around 17) - bothered by this so didn't herb on 6th cycle, got ovulation d17, 11-13 day lp and a chemical pregnancy.
So, do I herb this cycle or not?? [Great oracle say 'temporal association does not prove causality', Catdoctor say 'do I take any chance I can?']

And, should I expect things to be screwy anyway post chemical preg?

ta muchly

Irishmammybread Mon 22-Oct-12 18:09:46

Welcome back Catdoctor !
I don't know much about the possible effects of herbal supplements,someone else may be able to help. I'm taking Pregnacare Conception (and now on aspirin).
As regards a CP messing up your cycles, after both my later miscarriages (one at 10-11 wks and one at 12 wks but heart had stopped at 8w6d) my cycle was 35 days instead of my usual 28. I was charting temps the last time and know I ovulated on d 23 and had a luteal phase of 12 d. When I miscarried at 6 weeks I ovulated (and conceived though unfortunately that led to MC3) on d 14 so it would have been a normal length cycle.
I think everyone is different, it's not an exact science unfortunately!

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 18:25:46

Ooooh, everybody, I'm blissfully happy and exited! The left ovary showed no action at all but my right ovary showed TWO follicles ready to pop out an egg each (one was 23.5mm, the other 25mm - the size of cherry tomatoes the doctor said)! Even more exciting...she injected me in my abdomen with something which guarantees both eggs will be released in the nexy 32-48 hours (so precise!) She told me I could refuse the injection if I wished, as the follicles really were fit to burst, but that she would like to guarantee the popping-out of the eggs due to my age and time being against us. She was such a lovely woman and I swear she kept talking in terms of my being guaranteed a pregnancy this cycle shock. However, she said I must not get too excited if, 14 days after ovulation I have not had my period as Clomid can extend the luteal phase considerably. She said I should wait three weeks from today to do a pregnancy test. If it's positive she will have me back at 6-7 weeks for a scan!

I really must calm down here, I know, but bloody hell! I already feel pregnant I am so happy! To know that in the next 48 hours (much sooner than that, I reckon, from this morning's LH surge) I have a guaranteed TWO eggs being released is a phenomenal feeling. When I texted DP just then with the happy news he texted back: 'No pressure then!' I am quite, quite fretful about his 'performance' tonight and tomorrow. So crucial! The doctor told me that sex tonight is not necessary hmm and nor is it in the morning. Tomorrow night is when she would advise me to pounce. Of course, I am not prepared to wait until the 'prime' moment. Please, God, let DP be able to deliver....

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 18:28:41

She also told me that if I don't get pregnant this month not to worry, as we will do all this again (scans and injection) next month. She said we will carry on until we get a result. I feel so looked after smile

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 18:36:07

Hey Golden that is such good news grin. I too feel like you have your bfp already and am also exicted about twins what with 2 eggs and all wink. Let's hope dh is up to the job eh...are you planning on doing it tonight and tomorrow??? Do you have any 'strategies' in place in case of the dreaded flop?
catdoctor I do have some experience of agnus castus, and vit B6, and for me they worked very well and resulted in ds2 (lengthened lp from 9 days to 11). I didn't personally have any issues with it messing up my cycle, but have heard from others this can be the case (usally if lp is fine anyway, and people just fancy trying it). Might be worth having a scan of old threads?
I tell you what, being on this thread is not good for holding back the ttc urge...all I need now is gum's blessing and I'm on my way! grin

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 18:37:13

Sorry, but I keep remembering things and I'm conscious that some of you may be particularly interested/considering Clomid. I asked the consultant if it was purely the Clomid which had caused two eggs to be produced and she said yes. Obviously some women produce two naturally but it is still rare and she said I have responded brilliantly to this drug. Hurrah!!

Pink, like I said, if I could erase my thoughtless post about statistics, I would. Please ignore it. Like Diege said, we are surely in a much higher bracket of stats if we are temping, having really well-timed intercourse, are a healthy weight and not smoking/drinking. EWCM can be present for a good few days before ovulation occurs. The point is this kind of cm is the most fertile and will nurture any sperm deposited until the egg is released. You should DTD every other day from now until ov has occurred (if you have the energy). Good luck, love.

Catdoctor, I am not the best person to ask about herbs or alternative therapies simply because I don't believe in them. I am not dismissing your longer luteal phase - I just can't advise you on stuff I don't personally have faith in. It's medical intervention all the way for me, I'm afraid!

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 18:44:06

Diege, "the dreaded flop"???!!! Don't freak me out before he's even got home from work! (Any seduction tips would be greatly appreciated...)

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 18:50:47

grin. Err seduction tips...the only (not very seductive at all) tip I would suggest (having been through a little of what you have with dh) is (if things seem to be taking a longer than bearable time) is to get him to do most of the 'action' outside for as long as possible before 'heading in' so to speak blush. It's worked for me grin

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 19:04:12

Diege, wankthank you! grin

Diege Mon 22-Oct-12 19:20:05

So you decoded my prudish advice correctly grin

remnant Mon 22-Oct-12 19:31:03

Hello all

Can't really say I've caught up with this entire thread.
Much respect for mia's mum though!

I've been trying for dc2 for about 4 months with mixed enthusiam from DH. DC1 was a ridiculously easy conception just before my 40th, and I was sort of hoping that my luck would hold out for another but it doesn't look like it has. Current cycles are 24 days long and I think I'm ov'ing on day 17. Doesn't bode well. Agnus castus and B6 are not doing much for me and i've just had my 43rd birthday sad sad

I'm still bfing dc1 though, wondering if it's more likely that my age or the bfing that is messing up my cycles?

Anyway, here's to hoping for a lot of luck all round x

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 19:45:52

Diege: wink

Remnant, I've heard it's hard to conceive when you're breastfeeding. Could this be the cause of misbehaving cycles? I don't know - I don't have any children but there are lots of women on here who can advise you. Welcome to the thread thanks

littlepinkfizz Mon 22-Oct-12 19:56:24

golden soooo excited for you!! Bet you never expected such fantastic news. Know what you mean about being " looked after" . It means you are not carrying all the burden yourself and that reduces the stress dramatically which can only help. The fact also that she was so positive about the future is fantastic. It couldn't happen to a better person. Don't worry DP will do the necessary and shoot his sperm exactly where and when you tell. He knows better than not to...!

Lots of fertile cm today. Didn't get a smiley til day 17 last cycle(29 day cycle) .Im cd 11 today so would imagine I'd ovulate before cd 17??? Planning on Dtd every other day from yesterday with Viagra enhanced DP! Nothing more I can do.

remnant Im not sure about the bfing.. I bf ds until 12 mths but didn't even get a period for a couple of month after. You can definitely get pregnant while bfing - threads on it here. But as you say,maybe age and bfing together may delay your chances of conceiving. However I'm no expert. Quite sure that the rest of the ladies here will be able to offer some help and advise. Good luck smile

goldengirl71 Mon 22-Oct-12 20:26:18

Blimey, Pink, your kind words have warmed me cockles! Thank you so much smile x

lotsofcheese Mon 22-Oct-12 21:00:22

Golden how utterly exciting!! That's just such positive news!! Am imagining your juicy eggs ready to burst from your ovaries! Hope you & DH are able to be at it like rabbits & the Viagra does the trick.

Was really sorry to see you've had AF, Calibee I know how much it meant to you for things to happen before your DP goes away for training.

Tina how are you doing? Any symptoms yet? Mine are still few & far between, if that's any consolation.

Have recovered from my day of metalling yesterday - was really struggling. Today has been better as had work to distract me. Less than 48 hours to the next scan...

Irishmammybread Mon 22-Oct-12 21:03:53

Oooh Golden good luck for tonight, hope it's twins!

Diege why not, go for it!

Welcome remnant ! I never started having periods until a few months after I finished breast feeding my three,so I would presume it must affect your fertility, though midwives always seem to drum it into you not to consider breastfeeding a form of contraceptive so some people must still get pregnant.

pink I've not been charting temps that long but the cycle where I was charting and went on to conceive I know I ovulated on d14 but dtd on d13 and d15 so not on the actual day of ovulation.
If you are going to dtd every other day you're in with a good chance.

Even though the statistics of us conceiving may be about 1% every month, someone has to be that 1% so why not us!
If you look at the odds of me at 44 conceiving three times in a 6 mth period it would be extremely unlikely.
Sadly it works the other way too, the likelihood of miscarrying after a heartbeat at 8 weeks is supposed to be 1% but that happened me too.
I think we just have to keep strong and keep hoping and not worry too much about numbers and statistics!

Not that I'm feeling very strong tonight, it would have been my due date so I'm feeling a bit weepy. I've been to church today and lit a candle for all our little lost babies. x

catdoctor Mon 22-Oct-12 21:46:32

Thanx all for comments

remnant the web site kellymom is the best place for breastfeeding science. Certain habits 'ethological breastfeeding' makes it less likely for you to start cycling whist feeding eg feeding at night, on demand, certain things may bring on cycles eg suddenly dropping a feed. I have only just stopped feeding DS (2 and 3 months) after v gradual babyled reduction and I've only had 6 cycles so far.

There is a friendly ttc whilst bfing thread in conception. I feel I can't visit now!

lotsofcheese Mon 22-Oct-12 22:25:59

Oh Irish I'm sorry it's a sad day for you. The due dates are truly awful, especially when you're not pregnant & desperately want to be. Big hugs x

I agree statistics are a strange thing. Personally, I'm a statistical blip: molar pregnancy (1:1000) HELLP syndrome (<1:200) mmc (<2%) after heartbeat at 8+ weeks (<5%) Never been more than 3 months TTC (way above 1% quoted). So I don't have confidence in statistics & don't read too much into them.

hopefulgum Mon 22-Oct-12 23:40:56

cheese, thanks for saying that about stats. Although I know I've beaten the odds by getting pregnant twice at age 44 and once at age 45 (sadly all miscarriages), and also the damned stat of not miscarrying after a heartbeat at 8 weeks (also happened to me twice), I still feel a little stab of pain when I hear that my chance is about 1%. It's like being 25 and on the pill. I am always saying we shouldn't listen to stats, but when feeling hopeless on this terribly difficult road to conception, it's hard not to.The only good thing about the shitty stats is that my DH is happy to have sex during O time because he thinks there's no chance of conceiving sad

Deige, you must know how I feel about you ttc. SO EXCITEDgringringrin. Don't wait,lovely,I wish with all my heart that I hadn't. Like cat and remnant I breastfed for ages (and really loved it),but in hindsite I wish I'd weaned him earlier, it may have given me a better chance of conceiving back when I was 42 or 43.

My temperature took a nose dive, so not feeling very positive anymore about having conceived this cycle, or that I ever will. Now, I think,PMS is settling in which just makes it all the worse.I'm due AF in the next few days, should feel better then.

Golden, great news about your juicy eggs. I hope they are getting fertilized as I typesmile.

JBrd Mon 22-Oct-12 23:55:01

Let's just ignore statistics, shall we?! With all that effort going on here to get knocked up, they can't apply (she tells herself in semi-delusional attitude...) grin

Good news about your consultant, golden, it's brilliant that you've got someone who understands and is willing to act on it! Good luck and go for it!

My temp appears to stay up, little blip yesterday, but on the upwards slope again today - I think I am spending far too much time on FertilityFriend, starting at this flippin' chart! On 7 DPO now, and starting to cross every finger/toe/whatever for good luck. Can't believe how desperate I'm getting , and we've only been trying since June - ttc really is becoming the outlet for my bad work situation. Not sure that's a good thing, but hey-ho...

hopeful - sounds as if you're at the same stage in your cycle, good luck! Maybe it'll work out...

It doesn't help that both my NCT friends that I stayed in touch with are pregnant again - it would be soooo great if we were off on mat leave together again next year! (OK, so now I'm starting to sound really desperate!)

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 00:10:25

I am so sad that I have upset everyone with my stupid stats comment sad

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 00:13:28

Hugs, Irish. It was my due date on the 8th and AF arrived the next day sad So lovely that you remembered all our lost babies at church. Thank you thanks

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 11:56:43

Gum, frigging bummer that you feel AF is inevitable and I totally understand that sinking gloom which says we'll never conceive. Why, oh, why do we invest so much energy and hope into these bloody temperatures? It's sickening to see them rise and then drop. I totally second your 'staring at charts all day', JBrd, especially in the final week of the 2ww.

I guess, for some of us who are on this thread every day we spend alot of time sharing our doubts and dreams only for that dream to end on the sight of a couple of days' temps. It is just shattering. It's horrid and tiring and seemingly hopeless - and then we pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off and try again next cycle. Gum, please don't take this the wrong way - I'm not an evangelist and I know I sound hypocritical after saying you shouldn't take it behind DH's back but do you think you may consider Clomid?

Well, DP spent two hours on the badminton court last night and came home energised and 'high'. He didn't feel he needed a Viagra and so we went ahead without it...and had wonderful horny sex! I'm so proud of my man! He was so confident...makes me wonder even more about the merits of exercise, especially the competetive stuff. When he's won a match he comes home feeling great about himself, it's so lovely to see. So, the all-important session will be tonight; I'm CD15 and should be ovulating between midnight and tomorrow morning according to my injection smile

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 11:59:53

...which, by-the-way, would coincide perfectly with yesterday morning's LH surge smile

littlepinkfizz Tue 23-Oct-12 12:09:40

Happy shagging golden Go girl go!! grin

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 12:24:28

Hey, Goth! Happy World Goth Day!!

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 13:10:23

Thanks, Pink! grin

Gum, I'll be around on this thread at midnight tonight for you if you need to talk - you usually come on here late at night British time. Chin up, love x

TinaO99 Tue 23-Oct-12 15:19:30

afternoon all - hope everyone is well?

Golden fantastic news about your ripe follicles and your horny sex lol, I'm well jel as my husband refuses to do it until I've had the first scan, plus it's pretty icky anyway at the moment due to the progesterone pessaries I'm still using (sorry if thats tmi!) can't wait to find out if it worked for you, sounds very promising!

Cheese not much in the way of symptoms no, I felt a bit sick and faint yesterday morning and my stomach's been a bit off this afternoon but no sore boobies this time, maybe it's because it's a boy this time I don't know! Feels weird as I don't really feel pregnant - it's only the size of a pea so maybe when it gets a bit bigger I'll have more symmptoms then I'll wish I'd kept quiet!

Gum sorry you're feeling low, wish I could wave a magic wand for you :-(

lots of hugs to Irish and lovely that you lit the candle for all of us too xx

lotsofcheese Tue 23-Oct-12 17:58:26

Golden what a hero your husband is!!! I'm so glad he was able to rise to the occasion!

Tina I agree with your theory about boys & lack of symptoms - I'm sure many won't agree though! DP & I have not dtd since BFP either: my sex drive in pregnancy is non-existent - and then there's the psychological side too ( ie fear of m/c).

How are you doing Miasmummy? You've been through the mill, emotionally.

Good luck to the ladies on the 2ww - crossing everything for you.

Have another scan tomorrow afternoon - feel reasonably calm (not confident though) & trying to prepare for the worst rather than getting my hopes up.

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 19:34:11

Fucking hell, if DP doesn't get his act together soon....angry

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 20:44:22

Phew! The deed is done - no thanks to a Man United footie match hmm

Good luck for your scan tomorrow, Cheese!

'My work here is done....' [chuffed that SWI is finished for another month] grin

Irishmammybread Tue 23-Oct-12 21:00:31

Yay! You can relax now Golden !

Good luck for tomorrow cheese, will be thinking of you. x

goldengirl71 Tue 23-Oct-12 21:41:43

Oof! Lower back ache and period-type cramps. Is this what ovulation feels like?? wink

CaliBee Wed 24-Oct-12 08:12:12

Hey ladies...just a quickie this morning.
So very excited for you Golden heres hoping both eggs get a good seeing to smile
I'm not going to stick around and moan...suffice to say my mood is as miserable as our British weather right now. My central heating is on the blink and my car needs two new tyres which I must get done before I take OH on his journey up north on Saturday.
We have our consultants appointment on Friday....something tells me it will do nothing to lift my spirits.
Take care ladies x

littlepinkfizz Wed 24-Oct-12 09:27:23

Swim, bad boys ,swim to goldens bursting follicles! grin

lotsofcheese Wed 24-Oct-12 15:35:00

Just checking in with good news: I've just seen my little wriggler on a scan, at 10+2.

Such a relief, although I felt strangely calm before, which worried me as I have no grounds for complacency given my history.

Even better, the sonographer was able to point out the nasal bone, which is a big relief given my age.

So another hurdle overcome, but I still have a long way to go. Provided I get to 12 weeks, it's the cvs V. Amnio debate. Etc etc.

One step at a time, though....

remnant Wed 24-Oct-12 19:09:29

Nice to be reading some good news here. Hope the luck holds out

I have been thinking a lot about stopping bfing. I was feeding on demand until last month, then cut it back to no feeds during the day. This week I'm only doing feeds between 6am and when I get up. Worth trying by the sounds of it. I'm not sure I'd like how it would feel if I did force dc1 to completely wean now and then still not get pregnant.

I've made myself an appointment at a fertility clinic. Not sure what I expect really. I'm sort of hoping they can give me a blood test or something and then tell me if there's much chance of another conception. Is it anything like that simple?

anyway, fingers crossed about for all these eggs and embryos floating about

hippychick66 Wed 24-Oct-12 19:21:37

Great news lotsofcheese :-)

littlepinkfizz Wed 24-Oct-12 19:29:08

Fantastic cheese x

lotsofcheese Wed 24-Oct-12 20:11:20

Thanks ladies! The relief is almost physical. I still can't believe it. Have been in a daze since then.

goldengirl71 Wed 24-Oct-12 20:18:13

Cheese, that's fab news. Wonderful smile

I'm worried about all the dental trauma tomorrow affecting my chances of pregnancy. Tooth extraction, root canal and crown. All at once. Can anyone reassure me? sad

goldengirl71 Wed 24-Oct-12 20:25:16

Remnant, I have never had a baby and hence never breastfed, but can I offer my tuppence worth considering you're 43 and your cycles are short? Stop breastfeeding. Immediately!

Diege Wed 24-Oct-12 20:39:23

Brilliant news Cheese grin. I had been thinking about you today, and had such a strong feeling all would be well. Enjoy the feeling and don't worry too much about the next 'set' of isues to face! You will get through those too - btw nasal bone indeed an excellent sign (if ds etc an issue of course).
Remnant I conceived dd2 when bf dd1 (6mths), although I had dropped to 2 feeds a day (morning, night). I was told by the hv that 3 or less bf a day would have no affect on reducing fertility - still good for current baby, but also not interfering with ovulation. Having said that, I was a veritable baby myself at 32!!!
Golden well well, seems like the man did good grin. I don't really see the dental treatment as interfering with anything going on 'down there'. If fertilised the egg won't even have implanted yet, so nothing for it to be affected by as such. Fwiw I had a root canal (my one and only), plus x-rays etc, when I didn't even realise I was pregnant with dd1. Think of all the women out there who've had dental work/botox etc etc and have been pregnant without realising it! You will be FINE (though root canals are very scary...<runs>)
Well my bleedin thermometer has gone awol - baby was playing with it a few days ago (the bleeping fascinated him) so will need to buy a new one...Any tips for where to get one cheaply?
Hope everyone is ok - how are things Gum? Calibee, sounds rough sad Wishing you the best of luck for your consultant appointment x

Irishmammybread Wed 24-Oct-12 21:01:10

What a relief cheese ! That's really good news,you can relax a bit now.

Good luck for tomorrow golden ! I've never had an extraction but have had root canal treatment and a crown(though not together!) .It wasn't pleasant but was bearable. The only thing I'd be a bit concerned about would be if you had to have xrays because I think that would be best avoided if you are pregnant.
Were you going to mention to the dentist that you might be?

remnant before we decided to ttc again after my first miscarriage in March(which was a surprise pregnancy!) I had a blood test for Anti Mullerian Hormone.It's not offered on the NHS but I ordered a test and brought it to my GP surgery to have blood taken, sent it off and the results were sent directly to me. This gives an idea of ovarian reserve, my result was low but good for someone of my age(44).
However, even if there are eggs there it doesn't give an idea of the quality of those eggs and two more miscarriages later I'm worried that may be an issue.

My temperature plummeted today below the coverline on d7po so I don't know what's going on with my stupid cycles. I think I'm going to have to resort to an emergency Starbar for consolation.
calibee sorry to hear you're going through such a rubbish time, hope you've lots of chocolate at hand.

Irishmammybread Wed 24-Oct-12 21:14:47

sorry golden, crossed posts with Diege who has first hand experience of dental work in pregnancy,listen to her,I don't want to freak you out with my xray concerns, I probably worry too much!
I just know that when I went to the dentist a couple of weeks ago before doing check xrays he asked if there was any chance I might be pregnant which of course made me cry because I should be so I sat there with my teeth clenched on xray films and tears slowly running down my cheeks! He's a family friend and knows about my miscarriages so he apologized for upsetting me but said he had to ask. I'm sure any risks must be low .

Diege Wed 24-Oct-12 21:18:42

Bless you Irish, that sounds really horrible for you in the dentists sad.
If I remember correctly,can't they put some sort of apron type thing (lead??!!) on you if you;re pregnant? Am I making that up from an episode of Holby City? blush

Irishmammybread Wed 24-Oct-12 21:50:48

That would make sense Diege and there probably isn't too much scatter to the abdomen from xrays directed at the jaw anyway.
I'm quite partial to a bit of Holby myself!
Did you see the episode a while back where a 47 year old found out she was pregnant? I know she was an actress and it was fiction,but a little bit of me couldn't help thinking, well if she can do it............

goldengirl71 Wed 24-Oct-12 21:51:09

Thanks, ladies, for advice. Hopefully all the x-rays he did last week were sufficient and tomorrow it's down to the real business of destroying my mouth. I have a really high threshold for pain so have no fear about the 'trauma' of tomorrow - much more preferable than sitting in the hairdresser's for three hours pretending to be interested in the banal waffle of a twenty-two year-old [shudders].

Remnant, it's not so much your breastfeeding that worries me, it's your age. The two combined are not good news in my opinion. Your DC is over two years old, right? You want another baby, right? Stop breastfeeding is my advice. Sorry if that sounds abrupt but I'm thinking of Gum and her struggles now.

goldengirl71 Wed 24-Oct-12 21:59:43

Calibee, stay positive about the fact that you are being at least listened to on Friday. Be sure to bombard the consultant with every question you can think of and don't leave there without a clear picture of what they are prepared to do for you and your DP. Feeling really sorry for you about Saturday, you really have my sympathies, love thanks

The high I experienced from seeing those two big follicles at the scan and having the wonderful injection is beginning to wear off. I now feel that, if AF arrives, I will be doubly crushed knowing that not just one but two eggs failed to be fertilised. I really must not raise my hopes this month; I only completed my course of antibiotics on ovulation day and DP's efforts to quit smoking and take vitamins etc will only become evident in his semen three months from now.

goldengirl71 Wed 24-Oct-12 22:02:53

I am sick of worrying and whingeing. I am sorry.

remnant Wed 24-Oct-12 23:11:57

goldengirl71, you're most probably right about my best chances being post-bf if that happens soon. I want to see if reducing the feeds has any impact on cycles though. Dropping post-nap, evening and bed time feeds last month certainly didn't help, although I'm not sure I ov'd at all last month tbh. Perhaps you're right catdoctor, that sudden changes can reduce changes. We can't actually ttc this month anyway because of meds DH has to take, so I might as well give just doing a morning feed a go.

Irishmammybread, thanks for the info on Anti Mullerian Hormone test. I guess I can ask them for that. Interested to know if there's anything they can do to explain or, better still, fix my short cycles and luteal phase.

lotsofcheese, all the best for the next 2 weeks, I've been through a cvs test myself so have an some idea what you're going through. staying positive is the only thing you can do now x

remnant Wed 24-Oct-12 23:13:34

btw does anyone here rate CBFM? not sure if it would be a waste of money in my situation

goldengirl71 Thu 25-Oct-12 00:31:09

Remnant, it sounds to me like you are reluctant to stop breastfeeding. I guess you need to ask yourself which you want more because you don't have the luxury of time on your side. You say your DH is not convinced about another baby. Can you expand on this? Do you think he wants you to himself as you've been breastfeeding for over two years?

I've never used CBFM and so I can't advise you. What makes you think you didn't ovulate last month? Are you charting your temperatures?

hopefulgum Thu 25-Oct-12 00:50:38

remnant, just wanted to chip in, although I mentioned before that I wish I had weaned earlier to get ttc on the way sooner, I actually did conceive, when I was 44,whilst still breastfeeding my DS. I think he was about 20 months(sorry can't exactly remember). I found breastfeeding quite hard once I had conceived, my nipples hurt like hell,and I just felt highly irritable every time I fed him. Anyway, I miscarried at 10ish weeks (baby had died around 8 weeks), and managed to convince myself that breastfeeding had caused it.Of course it was just me trying to find a reason.I since found out that it was rubbish eggs and my little boy had trisomy 13, so didn't have a chance. However, I had so convinced myself, I weaned my son. In some ways I regret it,as it wasn't the cause of the miscarriage and I went on to miscarry again,twice,despite having weaned him.

What I meant, was that if I'd weaned him earlier, I could have started ovulating again sooner, as I don't ovulate til the baby is about 18months to 2 years old (as with all 5 kids), so it wasn't the breastfeeding interfering with ttc,but,rather,the fact I wasn't ovulating. If you are ovulating, you don't necessarily have to give up the breastfeeding.

Cheese, I am so,so pleased for yougrinIt is the best news.

As for me, I have been feeling sad, and trying to get my head around going on without ttc.To be honest I think it has become a habit.That sounds silly, I know, but what I mean is, I've been doing it for so long, I thought,naturally, I'd stop when I finally had my healthy baby. The idea of stopping ttc,and everything that goes with it without the end result that I wanted,just feels too bloody hard.But continuing on, feeling this way over and over,just fucking hurts.

It almost feels like the Universe is having a laugh at my expense. When I am feeling low about all this, pull up to the supermarket, get out of my car and there are two ladies, huge bumps,laughing and smiling and discussing pregnancy. Then I walk into the supermart and a lady with a glorious baby bump almost walks into me. FFS, universe,can't you just direct me to the old wrinkled ladies, not the blooming,young,fresh-faced,bumpified type. Grr!!!I still don't have AF, but I already know there's no chance.All symptoms gone, temp down,and BFN.Says it all.

Sorry, don't want to bring anyone down.sad

I guess the consolation is I don't have to have "that" talk with DH and friends about our holiday in 9 months!Phew!

hopefulgum Thu 25-Oct-12 00:52:07

P.S. I was also using the CBFM when I conceived, whilst breastfeeding.I love the CBFM and kind of wish I'd kept it, but found the cost of the sticks prohibitive.

CaliBee Thu 25-Oct-12 08:50:33

Just thought I would add a little about cbfm. I used it the first month (3 cycles ago) it was great. High readings from cd9 and peaks on cd13 and 14. Bog standard stuff. However my last 2 cycles have been 41 and 46 days and the cbfm just didnt work with it. The sticks are pricey, but if you have a fairly regular cycle you should only need to use 10 sticks (not a whole box like me and still be too soon to pick up a peak). I feel confident enough now to read my body signs a little more confidently. I tend to start with internet opk's on day 10ish and as soon as I notice ewcm I use the clearblue digital for confirmation of surge.
Thanks to all for thinking of me this week, emotions very up and down!! My 2 new tyres ended up with me waiting around at kwik fit for 4 hours as they broke the wheel nut raaaa.

goldengirl71 Thu 25-Oct-12 09:57:16

Dick head fertility friend have got my ovulation date wrong. They've pinpointed it at CD14 when I only had my LH surge and injection on that day. Fucking sick of charting angry

goldengirl71 Thu 25-Oct-12 10:01:44

Gum, I feel your pain. The thought of ttc for the next few years and not having a baby and remaining childless for the rest of my life makes me weep. For me, however, I sometimes wonder if the lines are becoming blurred between my yearning to bring a child into the world and some perverse need to prove my body works. Sometimes it feels like all this is less about the baby and more about the failure to conceive.

gothinrecovery Thu 25-Oct-12 13:17:06

Hi, just dropping in. Cheese great to hear the news about your scan.

Hugs to everyone as it sounds like a lot of you are feeling low. TBH so am I, for various reasons I am sure this won't be my month. Still having EWCM timing weirdness, this time on CD12 and then CD15 - always used to be on CD10 and then LH surge a day or so later like clockwork.

Golden - I know what you mean about needing to prove your body works as well. It is good that you got the Clomid though, I mentioned that when I last had an appointment and they said they didn't think it was necessary so wouldn't give it to me. I do think for you it's a step in the right direction though I would say try not to get your hopes up too much this first cycle, it may take time.

JBrd Thu 25-Oct-12 17:14:24

There certainly seems to be quite a bit of autumn doom & gloom here at the moment, hugs to everyone!

remnant - is CBFM Clear Blue Fertility Monitor? Just checking... Never used it, I've been using cheap OPK that I get from Amazon, and they are working well. But I have textbook cycles, not sure how good they are if you don't.

Fab news, cheese! So happy for you (and also rather envy)

Don't get impatient, golden, one step at a time! So glad you got the Clomid and that you've been going for it, but I agree with goth, it may take time. Easier said than done, I know. We all want things to happen immediately, if not yesterday.

But I think I'll join the moan a little bit (relieved that I'm the not only one!).

After feeling crampy (and therefore crappy) since the beginning of the week, it looks as if AF has now started to arrive sad

I'm gutted, to say the least. I know I shouldn't take it so hard, but I do, I can't help it! All rational thinking is slowly going out the window for me, I can feel myself starting to go ttc-obsessed more and more... The sensible Me says it's still early days, no reason to panic, nothing is indicating that there's anything wrong, and all my charts/temps/stats are bang-on. And then the irational/illogical me rears its head and shouts why isn't this working then?! I'm doing everything to the book, OPK was on time, we dtd at the right times, I'm healthy (well, mostly), lost 2st since July, I exercise, eat well blablabla. I've even forced DH to cut down his alcohol intake (and let me tell you ladies, that is an achievement of large magnitude in itself!).

I'm starting to feel a bit vindictive now, is that normal? Thinking that DH should give up booze completely, do more excercise, work less, and maybe even get his sperm tested?! Maybe the 'issue' (if there is one) lies with him, who knows? But maybe I'm just looking for ways to spread the pain...

JBrd Thu 25-Oct-12 17:18:28

Plus, we are meeting our NCT friends on Sunday, both of which are pregnant again - they are soooo lovely, but the prospect now fills me with utter dread. How will I be able to hold it together?!?

goldengirl71 Thu 25-Oct-12 18:42:12

JBrd, I could have written your post. All of us could, I'm sure. Can I be brutal in the hope of taking some of the pressure off and bringing some realism to the discussion? Our. Eggs. Are. Shit. Or most of them. Probably. Most very likely. The answer? Patience. We may have a looooooooong time to wait for a decent enough egg to be released. I would definitely have your DH's sperm tested. What's there to lose? I gained a whole new insight into my DP's sperm a couple of weeks ago sad angry

I also wonder about timing of intercourse. I know some women say they got pregnant from sperm that was five days old blah, blah, but I simply don't believe them (I don't believe many, many people). Especially at our age when we have a dearth of fertile cm to nurture the sperm. I think sex as near to ovulation, plus on the day itself, is the way forward. I'm not suggesting your nookie isn't well-timed..I'm just chucking suggestions into the ring. I think the only reason teenagers get upduffed so easily is because they're always having sex. Tons of it. All the time. I think we oldies sometimes convince ourselves we're doing enough of it at the perfect time - every time wink

I personally cannot believe (and feel very resentful because of it) I haven't had a BFP in the seven months since my mmc (but if you minus the first three months when I believe we are fucked up down there that only leaves four months I've been ttc hmm).

Just got back from the dentist minus one tooth and having had root canal and a filling. I swear I love that dentist's chair, so relaxing. I love the fact that it is impossible for me to speak and no-one is asking me tedious questions about my life and pretending to be interested in my day-to-day existence, a la the hairdresser. I also find it entirely arousing having my beautiful Asian dentist staring into my mouth for an hour. I fantasise that he has an enormous erection from being in such intimate proximity and that he wants to rip my clothes off and give me a different kind of drilling shock blush

goldengirl71 Thu 25-Oct-12 18:45:11

JBrd, ditch your NCT friends. You have nothing in common with the smug bitches.

goldengirl71 Thu 25-Oct-12 18:45:37

wink

CaliBee Thu 25-Oct-12 18:47:56

Muhahahahah....oh golden your dentist fantasy has really just made my day. Bloody fantastic. grin

remnant Thu 25-Oct-12 20:18:44

Goldengirl, I am sort of reluctant to stop breastfeeding (because ds loves it, and he's hardly ever ill), i have cut it down to just one feed in the last month. I may indeed go further.

DH is not fully convinced about another baby all the time. Sometimes he says he wants dc1 to be an only child, other times he agrees that a sibling would be good. He's usually happy to do the shagging and he knows full well what my intentions are. So I've stopped actually discussing it with him blush

I've been using opk's for the last few months. I haven't been able to temp because I had been being woken up too often in the night for bfing. That should change now. I didn't catch an LH surge last month, and didn't get the nipple tenderness that had come post LH surge in the previous few months.

Anyway, I don't know how old you are, or much about your situation, but I hope that you do get your baby soon.

Gum, I am also haunted by pregnant women. I try to remind myself that we are actually in the middle of a baby boon. Not that that really helps.

remnant Thu 25-Oct-12 20:23:35

oops, i meant baby boom, obviously

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 09:22:51

Remnant, nipple tenderness after LH surge?? What with you and Gum's and Hippy's ovulation pains I'm feeling a little inadequate on here! I hope you find some peace with the whole bf/ttc.
You asked how old I was et. I recently turned 41, have no children, had an abortion at 30 (boy, do I regret that) and a mmc at 11 weeks in March this year. I am a recovering alcoholic (been sober just over two years) whose only aim in life is to have a child. The longer I am not pregnant the stronger the voice which taunts me: 'what? You went through nine months of rehab and turned your back on everyone and everything in your life to come and live out here and you're still not a mother? What was the point of it all?' I am a freelance editor who does very little work (which is why I'm always on here), lives way out in the sticks and needs to find a job which gets me out of this house and far away from ttc threads sad

hopefulgum Fri 26-Oct-12 09:32:12

Not feeling much better, but have consoled myself with Lindt dark with coconut chocolate,a cup of tea and a British country living magazine. It will have to do. So sick of feeling lousy. Every day this week I have cried on the way home from work. Doesn't help that the job hasn't been great, loads of issues there, but all will probably be resolved next week and of course the PMS should be over soon and I will be more resilient.

golden I think you are right that our eggs are probably less than perfect, but I really have to believe there might be one good one in there, otherwise I will spiral down into the mire of deepest depression. This month I have taken it hard and it has made me realize how much I still want a baby. I also think sometimes it is about proving that my body can do it, and wanting to prove all the skeptics wrong, but ultimately it is about completing the family I dreamed of having ( and yes, I do know we can't always have what we dream of), and that means having a baby. God knows if my DH was up for it I'd be with an ivf clinic having donor eggs. But my DH just isn't and I know he won't ever be. However, he is happy to have unprotected sex and to risk it when the chances are so low, and to live with the consequences if I am lucky enough to fall pregnant.

I have thought some more about clomid, but one woman,my age, that I know, spoke to a consultant who said it might not be a good idea when the egg reserve is very low(which according to my AMH result, mine is low). However I have decided to stick with the Vitex and take DHEA for a couple of months to improve egg quality. I think it can take four months, but I don't care. I know Jollster took it for a while before she got her little boy, so I think it is worth a try, and maybe in January I might consider taking clomid. I am seeing my gp in a couple of weeks, I might discuss it with her, however I think she'd want to send me to a consultant (we call them "specialists" here) and I don't want to do that. It would involve a barrage of tests and bad news, and I don't need that.

The good news is that it is the weekend and my hubby's birthday tomorrow, so I will make Nigella's cloud cake, a cassata for dinner and other yummy things.

jbrd sorry you are feeling low too. If only we could just have our heart's desire sad

hopefulgum Fri 26-Oct-12 09:44:52

Crossed post with you golden. I am not sure about remnant, but that nipple tenderness she described was something I had too, but only when breast feeding and ovulating.

Don't feel inadequate, sweetie, you had big bulging follicles. I am feeling rather envy and inadequate comparing my pathetic shriveled up pips. I just want a big juicy, genetically perfect egg to meet up with a strapping strong muscular genetically perfect sperm. Why oh why is that too much to fucking ask....for Pete 's sake, I seem to have managed it beforeangry

deige I need the bistro tonight.litres of Riesling darling , crayfish salad, something with potatoes and loads of cream followed by cream brûlée . Muchas gracias. grin

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 10:06:27

Gum, what the hell is cassata? It sounds like a South American percussion instrument. (Also, can anyone tell me what 'metalling' is? I keep reading it on mumsnet). Please don't tell me Vitex is some kind of alternative therapy/medicine. What is DHEA? Sounds serious.

Gum, I am not rubbing salt in your already gaping wound - I would genuinely like to know - how many women on this thread have got pregnant and had a baby after the age of 43? I can think of Jollster and Lolfactor. Anyone else? Do you think, say, Lolfactor had all the tests you are now afraid of? Maybe she, too, was given crappy results? May I gently say, if I were your age, I would stay away from anything 'alternative' or 'herbal' and get stuck in with some serious drugs. What the fuck have you got to lose, Gum? So what if the egg reserve is low? The Clomid forces the eggs out - sometimes two at a time - and I thought I could trust my charts which told me, month after month, that I was ovulating. I wasn't. And that was a nasty shock to me.

Enjoy your DH's birthday (is he 52 now? See, I listen to everything on here). Nigella's cloud cake sounds divine - I had her ham in Coca-Cola the other week at my sister's. Very tasty. I still think she's a smary toff, though.

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 10:06:48

*smarmy!

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 10:13:46
woollywomble Fri 26-Oct-12 11:46:39

Hi everyone, hope that the Clomid has done its job GG. Everyone seems on a bit of a downer at the mo, me included, so we could all do with some good news soon.

I have a stinking cold and while the physical effects of the mc are behind me, I still feel really emotional and confused. Some days I tell myself to be happy with what I've got, that some people have been through such heartache I should consider myself lucky to have two healthy DDs, that having a third at our ages (42 and 52) would be impractical in so many ways, that ttc again may just lead to more upset. This was why, in so many ways, our little 'accident' was such a blessing, because it took all these decisions out of our hands, a very different scenario to actually making a conscious decision to conceive.
Yet like you Gum I have other days when I just feel so desperate for another baby to complete our family that I physically ache. Despite not having planned a third, there will always be someone missing now. sad

I'm aware that it's early days for me yet, that some of this might be hormonal, but I know that I can never go back to the way things were pre-mc. It doesn't help that DH, while agreeing in theory to try again, is not following through with the required action! He has moved on, and is trying to ease the pain for me by saying what I want to hear, hoping that I will change my mind I expect. I felt so angry with him last night, lying next to me snoring, completely oblivious to everything, while I feel in turmoil that our lives are at a crossroads and I don't know which path to follow. I want a crystal ball to see what the future holds for us...

Bah, sorry to offload. I went out shopping with my Mum yesterday and I just felt a bit of wreck, the shops seemed to be full of new Mums and babies and Christmas frivolity already and just don't feel up to enforced jollity this year. Hope this mood lifts soon or will have to hibernate to get through the approaching festive season.

tripletipple Fri 26-Oct-12 12:58:23

Hi ladies, don't really know why I read the ttc threads today as I haven't been trying myself for more than 5 years now (ds is 4.7) but I was glued to them once and know what you are going through.

As some of you are feeling a bit down I thought I would try to cheer you up by telling you that I was 46 when I had my son (my one and only!). There were many times in my early 40s when I sat and wept at my childless state, but it happened for me and hopefully it can happen for you too.

Wishing everyone all the best x

Diege Fri 26-Oct-12 13:24:48

Hi everyone smile. We will indeed be having the bistro tonight - theme: 'comfort food', so get your orders in. I'm having mashed potatoes with onion gravy, (quorn) sausages and yorkshire pudd, followed by apple crumble (with NO cinnamon or sultanas) and enough custard so that you can't see the pudding beneath. Your order is currently in the system Gum and should be with you shortly grin
I can see Golden how the scan can be a double edged sword. Lots of info' that does empower to some extent, but then at least when we get a bfn under usual situations we can blame timing etc etc whereas I can see how you have a lot of pressure on yourself. But then who's to say you won;t get a bfp? The odds are very good xx
Gum sounds like things are pretty tough at the moment - hopefully as you say work will resolve soon, but it's odd how lots of 'little' things on top of each other can really conspire to make us feel very down. Just wondering about the 'vitex' you speak of - is this the same as agnus castus? confused
I have decided I am going to get proactive and start ttc-ing (like Remnant and Gum dh knows my intentions and I'm not going to start informing him of cycle days etc). To be honest, he has admitted that he has been focusing too much on the practicalities (ie. money) the other day, and he still saya he'd love another baby, so that is enough in my book to signal the green light. But I'm not going to talk about it if that makes sense? blush grin
So once Amazon delivers with the new thermometer I will be joining in with charting, testing etc etc. grin

Irishmammybread Fri 26-Oct-12 13:36:44

Thank you so much for sharing that tripletipple ,it does give hope!
If you don't mind me asking did you have any miscarriages/tests/treatment before you had your son at 46?
Sorry to be nosey !
x

tripletipple Fri 26-Oct-12 13:57:06

irishmammy sorry i don't have much time to reply right now, dashing out.
I didn't have any tests done as I was too afraid of what I might find out! Hence no treatments. No mc, only conceived once (as far as I am aware).

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 14:11:39

Tripletipple, can I second Irish's thanks and may I ask if you used your own eggs and IVF?

Womble, please don't despair. I reckon you have a chance at 42 (*drugs! drugs! drugs!*) Miscarriages screw women up big time, I know. It's a cruel tease, making us think we're oh-so-fertile when, in reality, we were just extraordinarily flukey. All you can do from this point onwards is to be extremely patient, have all the tests you can afford and settle yourself in for the long haul. This won't help you whatsoever, but when I am feeling particularly 'woe is me..this is so unfair', I remind myself that, in evolutionary terms, we are not supposed to be having babies at this age; it isn't 'natural' and there are reasons why this struggle is so pronounced for the over-40s (*get the drugs!*)

Diege...hurrah! (*get some drugs!*)

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 14:14:13

Tripletipple, we crossed posts so I know you conceived naturally. Wow. I do wish, though, women wouldn't be afraid of having the tests. Surely it's better than believing everything is o.k and having false hope month after month?

somewherebecomingrain Fri 26-Oct-12 14:17:19

just wanted to say brilliant news about tina 's BFP, cheese 's scan and golden 's follicles. so happy for you - hope is scary but it sounds like there's every reason for it.
xxx

woollywomble Fri 26-Oct-12 16:43:44

Mmmm, Diege, comfort food sounds just the thing for this drizzly depressing weather. Can't beat bangers and mash then spotted dick and custard! Tripletipple, thanks for popping in and trying to cheer us all up, that's great to hear.

GG, I'm not sure that we'd go down the route of medical intervention yet - DH is still not convinced about my plan yet so like Diege and Gum I plan to appear nonchalant about the whole thing to him, whilst charting and temping and seducing at the necessary times. I suppose there's also a part of me that thinks the GP will just tell me to go away and get on with my menopause quietly and be grateful for the children I have. smile

littlepinkfizz Fri 26-Oct-12 18:22:23

Gosh ladies! What about tfi Friday? Everyone seems miserable but ttc gets to you like that, as I we'll know. No ti e to name check bit hugs to all.

I'm happy! Now on cd 15 , smiley this morning .dtd Wednesday and plan again tonight , Sunday and Tuesday! I'm remaining optimistic that my eggs ave it in them and dps sperm can all rise to the occasion grin

CaliBee Fri 26-Oct-12 19:26:02

Ladies HELP....confused
So today was my appointment. As I think I have said before I already had an idea about my results so no surprises there. (I did however have to look like it was fairly new news to me as I'm not really supposed to access my own results.) Anyway, lady Dr started off by opening my results screen (obviously never looked at it before I came in) she started off smiley on seeing my HSG result and recent progesterone then her face fell and there was an audible "ohhh" on seeing the AMH of <1.1, followed by sad shaking of the head.She then proceeded to say my FSH was good whilst looking at the cd35 test taken when my gp checked my progesterone last cycle(still no idea why my gp checked FSH on this day).....anyway I had to persuade her that in actual fact my FSH was, on 2 previous occasions (cd2), 20.6 and 21.1. After much face screwing and sympathetic looks she wrote me a prescription for Provera 20mg daily for Fifteen...yes fifteen days then 100mg of clomid cd2-5. I was able to explain that OH goes away on Sunday for Army training...and after much more face pulling she basically (in so many words) said here's the tools you use them on the days you need to.
I am pretty gobsmacked to say the least. However, armed with the tools I will indeed be using them.
So ...today is cd5, remembering my previous 2 cycles have been 41 and 46 days. Oh gets his first long weekend home (prob 4 days) from 17th November. I am busy googling when the best time to start the Provera would be. I'm thinking that 15 days of Provera is on the long side. My Pharmacy bible (good old BNF) tells me usual dose is 10mg twice daily for 5 days. I am aware that its not an exact science...I can only go on AF occuring 7 days following cessation of Provera and ovulation approx cd14 of clomid cycle.
What would you do ?? Honest opinions gratefully appreciated.

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 20:10:56

PINK!! If you got your smiley this morning it's highly likely you will ovulate tomorrow. Have sex tonight and tomorrow. Fuck Sunday off and deffo fuck Tuesday off! Good luck smile

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 20:20:22

Bloody hell, *Calibee, I'm confused: 1) What the hell is Provera? 2) Are you ovulating according to your progersterone result? What was the score on day 35? 3) Can they explain why your cycles are 41 and 46 days?

Admittedly there's not much scope for advisement regarding your OH going away, so I guess it is up to you to consider the dates as best you can and work around them - although the days you need to take the Clomid are inflexible. I'll go and research Provera x

goldengirl71 Fri 26-Oct-12 20:48:09

Right...so, Provera mimics progesterone which gives a kick up the arse to the other hormones which are misbehaving and giving you ridiculously long cycles. I think she's right in telling you to take it for 15 days before your period (which can be CD35 for you, poor cow) because that is how many days too long your cycle can be (if you count your 46 day one).

I think this is all really positive, Calibee - you really need to get those cycles down to 30/31 days maximum and then you can effectively utilise the Clomid during those cycles where DP's home leave coincides with your fertile window smile

hopefulgum Sat 27-Oct-12 00:27:59

Golden, as you know I'm not new to ttc, having been doing it since 2007(and had one live birth and 3 mcs in that time), and in that time have researched almost everything. I read your article,and I've read many,many ivf websites.Women my age are advised to have donor eggs. They don't give women my age, with FSH over 10 (mine is 11) and a super low AMH (under 1) treatment with drugs unless they are doing ivf with donor eggs. When I said I didn't want the testing done, it is because I've already had it done.There's no point in repeating the tests. I've had the progesterone test done about 3 or 4 times, each time it was high enough to suggest I had ovulated.

As for alternative treatments - you have made your views very clear on them,but not everyone feels the same way. I love alternative medicine,and have been having acupuncture for years, I get treatment from naturopaths and chiropractors and believe in the power of nutrition. Yes, Vitex is a herbal medicine, but proven to be a powerful one(it is agnus castus,*Deige*). And DHEA is also an alternative supplement, but it is used as part of the ivf protocols in the U.S. to improve egg quality. I actually don't like drugs very much and steer clear as much as possible. They are indeed powerful, but that worries me, because the balance of our bodies can so easily be put out.

So, I'll stick to the natural alternatives because I just don't think drugs will help all that much at my age.I will turn 46 in two weeks. The chances of falling pregnant are slight, but they are there and I still hold out hope.I might be desperate, but as I said, I can't have ivf, so I don't think there's any point in taking drugs in my situation. Perhaps if I was still 41 I would consider it.

Deige, so pleased to hear you will be ttc with us. Thanks for the bistro, comfort food is the go.

Golden, cassata (perhaps spelt casatta?) is an Italian dessert made of layers of icecream. Very delicious and my DH's favourite.

Calibee, I've no idea how you would organise to take provera, but I think it is to bring on your period? So I suppose it is so you can line up ovulation to happen when DP is home - which is great. I hope it works out perfectly for you.

Busy day today, pretty sure AF will arrive amongst it all. Must go to the farmer's market and start the baking. Having drinks this arvo with friends, so that will be nice. Starving, so off to cook breakfastgrin

wylie05 Sat 27-Oct-12 01:55:17

Hello again. I'm still more of a lurker but was greatly cheered by hearing from Triple. I too am scared to have tests because I am afraid of the results.

When I dropped DD off at school in the week I passed a 4 x 4 with a number plate that said "Baby 46" I walked along trying to work out if it was their 46 baby of if they were 46 when they had him/her! Hope it was the latter! Of course it may mean something completely different! Also been reading the book "call the midwife" and there were some mums that conceived naturally mentioned in the book (no drugs and stuff then!) 40, 46 (with rickets poor lady) and 44. No doubt there were many more.

I have a docs appt Monday. Bit unsure as am currently in Australia and not entirely got my head around the medicare system (i will most definately have to pay) but thought would enquire about clomid and things.

Hope everyone has a good weekend. (smile)

Diege Sat 27-Oct-12 08:05:22

Morning! Good to hear from you wylie, and best of luck for the GP appointment smile
HI Gum!!! I agree that you have certainly 'been there done that' with the fertility drugs. Now that I know for sure that vitex is agnus castus, I can add that it also worked for me in the sense that my LP lenthened out and I did conceive dc5 within 6 mths of taking it. Of course, it might have happened anyway, but there is lots of evidence to say it does indeed have a regulatory effect on hormones (and indeed sends peoples cycles crazy if they have a regular one in the first place). That reminds me that I must get some vits in stock this afternoon. Dh has been away with work since wednesday, back yesterday to announce he was out with the friend from uni' (fine) and staying over at his house (not so fine - the thought of my sat lie in has been getting me through). I am therefore taling the day off and heading into town when he gets back to have a good look around the charity shops (new hobby) and will stay out until I feel like it <points out tongue>
Glad the bistro was enjoyed - I am thinking take away, though I still have half a stone to lose since birth of dc5 which I really should address. BMI is normal, but you know when those jeans start leaving red marks at the end of the day??? blush
Oh and dc5 (ds2) is 1 tomorrow!!! Where has that year gone?? Must try and post a photo on profile of him tomorrow.
Love to all xxx

CaliBee Sat 27-Oct-12 08:21:27

Wylie I read that one...plus a couple of others by the same author. I remember thinking the same as I read it.
golden thanks for having a look at that for me. I'm not sure she really wanted me to take it from a certain day....more a day of my own choosing, like hopeful said to bring on af to line up ovulation with when OH comes home. So basically that would mean starting now (on cd6) to hopefully expect period in 1-2 weeks followed by ovulation at the end of OH's first long weekend home just over half way through November. Really though even OH said he was trying to press my leg as he could feel me getting bolshy with her...he said it sounded like I was the Dr and she was the patient lol. I guess thats the trouble with being in medicine myself.
Hopeful mmmm cassata...my Grandparents were from Scicily, I remember that one from my childhood. Just wanted to say that I also tried DHEA, it is ,even as a natural product, a fairly potent one and need to be taken with some caution. If you do decide to use it perhaps try to get the micronised variety, its called Keto 7. It may be coincidence but the first month I took it was the first of my ultra long cycles followed by another one which ended on Monday.....suffice to say I have now stopped hmm. I would love to look more into alternative/complimentary therapies ...my trouble is patience, or should I say lack of it and sadly alternative medicines and therapies generally take a fait amount of time to show results and I guess time is on nobodies side on this thread.
I should just say I'm a specialised Medicines Management Pharmacy Technician...the specialised bit was Mental Health (I'm doing a lot of work with soldiers suffering from PTSE just now...infact I met OH whilst working with his older brother who is a PT instructor with the Army and working with soldiers currently recovering from injuries...just a little bit of my story) so although I have great access to information about medications, I'm really not very "up" on physical medications nowadays.
Anyway....I'm off back to bed in a minute for a final snuggle with my man before taking the 3 and a half hour drive up to Catterick for the night and saying goodbye to him tomorrow. I do hope I don't make a complete and utter fool of myself by blubbing and wailing at any point infront of all the young wives and girlfriends. Now that just wouldnt do atall!!! blush

tripletipple Sat 27-Oct-12 08:40:01

golden I suppose if I had been Mr&Mrs Happily Married Couple I may have gone for tests but I wasn't in that situation. As for people living with false hope every month when tests could reveal the truth, I feel tests can dash peoples' hopes if the results are poor when infact they may still have a chance of conceiving.

gum you mention nutrition, I made up some muesli with a base of organic oats, mixed in 3 types of seeds, 3 types of dried fruits, 3 types of nuts, and would have it every morning with natural yogurt and berries (bag of frozen mixed, took some out every night for morning). Don't know if it helped or not, but it didn't do any harm. I continued to have it when I was pregnant too. Infact I'm not sure why I stopped!

Diege Sat 27-Oct-12 09:29:11

Hope the weekend goes ok Calibee - must be difficult xx Btw, I may be picking your brains at some point as I am supervising a few dissertations about therapies for PTST following combat (from a social work perspective) and aren't that clued up at all. Your job sounds fascinating btw.
Triple, that breakfast sounds lovely. I add some sunflower and pumpkin seeds to my weetabix and do notice a difference in my energy levels if I run out of supplies. Regardless of what it does, there's certainly enough evidence that it has good effects on general health <moves whispa gold out of sight>

goldengirl71 Sat 27-Oct-12 10:05:12

First of all I'd like to say I am not coming on here to bring people down or raise any hackles. I just feel very sad that there are not many women on here who are actually having babies - and those that have had them were largely under the age of 42. It breaks my heart that there are far more women coming through this thread who aren't having babies - and I for one am beginning to feel rather desperate. The fertility consultant told me that, over the age of 40, five out of six of our eggs are too shit to make a baby. For a woman in her twenties, that figure is one in eight. He told me that nothing can improve the quality of a woman's eggs. This is why I do not believe in the likes of DHEA.

You are right, Gum, I have very strong opinions on alternative therapies. I believe it is a cynical industry preying on the 21st Century woman who wants it all; who is tired, stressed, fearful and willing to try anything to have a baby. I've read on this and other threads of women who have been promised the earth by their acupunturist: massaged ovaries, lengthened luteal phases, easier labours - all utter bullshit. These industries make a hell of a lot of money out of women like us and I will not be a part of it. I'd rather my money went to the drug companies who will one day, hopefully, come up with a pill which improves egg quality.

I absolutely was not suggesting IVF, Gum, as I know that isn't an option for you. I was pointing you to the bit in the article about how Clomid works with the ovarian 'pyramid' of eggs, encouraging more than one to develop and hence raising the chances of at least one not being shit. This made sense to me and I'm not prepared to wait years for a decent egg. I'm hoping the Clomid will continue to throw up several. The article points out clearly that nothing can be done to improve egg quality and so I wanted to give you hope that Clomid could work for you in terms of the 'egg pyramid' system.

Triple, we will have to agree to disagree on the subject of tests. For me, knowledge is power. I have been charting now for nine months and every month has shown a sustained shift in temperature, leading me to believe, naturally, that I am ovulating evry month. Not so. My day 22 progesterone score showed I hadn't ovulated. I was horrified and even more horrified to learn DP's sperm wasn't perfect. Knowing that charting had deluded me was difficult to accept, but I believe the progesterone results more than I do fertility friend.

I am sorry that my posts have annoyed. I talk alot, I know. I have far too much time on my hands these days and that, coupled with the fact that I see you all as my friends, makes me over-zealous sometimes in my throwing-of-suggestions into the ring. I probably come across as an imperious know-it-all. I hope not, but I suspect I do. I am sorry if this is the case. I really empathise with absolutely everyone on here and in particular you, Gum, whose aching for that final baby just throbs from these pages. I want all of us to have our dreams realised, that's all.

goldengirl71 Sat 27-Oct-12 10:16:31

Calibee, my thoughts are with you today, love x

[waves at Somewherebeginningtherain]

CaliBee Sat 27-Oct-12 10:31:07

Awww Golden I for one love your bluntness....except when it is aimed at me of course grin. You have knowledge on your side and a fine grasp of the English language. I know what you mean by I have come to see you all as friends on here as I have too. We may pop back at you at times...as all friends do but please do not stop being you xxxx

CaliBee Sat 27-Oct-12 10:33:28

Diege fire away anytime with brain picking. I will do my best to answer. If you get chance have a look at the Combat Stress website...I work with these guys a lot.

goldengirl71 Sat 27-Oct-12 11:08:57

Calibee, your post just made me cry. Please don't do that again wink

littlepinkfizz Sat 27-Oct-12 12:55:22

golden as you will understand ....
Despite my optimism of last night... It was an unmitigated disaster. DP had my legs spread wider than an Olympic gymnast.,so I kindly whispered not so wide. He then drooped. Blamed me and that was fkn that. Tried not to cry as I have probably now missed my chance. Barely slept all night thinking of the bloody useless Viagra ,our dealing years and having only a couple of days each month to conceive.

This morning he promised to try stain tonight but I fear it will be too late by then. Sorry it's all me but as you all know having to wait another whole month with no guarantees that he can rise to the occasion then is just the fkn pits.

Hi to calibee and diege irish and gum wylie and triple.

I feel positively seething instead of positively pregnant. Poor DP x

littlepinkfizz Sat 27-Oct-12 13:00:59

Bloody predictive text..*declining years , *try again tonight.

Irishmammybread Sat 27-Oct-12 17:52:16

Will post again later as lasagne nearly ready to come out of oven, but just wanted to say pink that the cycle where I was charting and conceived we dtd the day before and after ovulation but not the actual ovulation day.(And one of those was a quickie before I went to work so I got up straight away,no time for any legs in the air etc!).
Also if you got your smiley yesterday then might you not ovulate today,in which case tonight is spot on?
I'd say just relax and go for it this evening anyway!
x

littlepinkfizz Sat 27-Oct-12 18:05:35

Thanks irish. We managed to spontaneously Dtd this afternoon. Hooray! The opk pack says you to Dtd anytime in the48 hours after the smiley

. Last month we Dtd the morning we got the smiley so at least it'll be a different choice this month. Who knows? Hard to be positive at my age sad though I know I have much to be grateful for reading stories from other ladies in this thread

goldengirl71 Sat 27-Oct-12 18:59:51

Pink, sex today was brilliant timing if you got your smiley yesterday morning. I'm sorry you had a rough time of it last night DTD - I feel your pain, sister. But...today just proves that all we need is to have the confidence to just give it another go if the Viagra fails. Didn't you also DTD on Wednesday? You're in with a great chance! grin x

Irishmammybread Sat 27-Oct-12 20:16:25

golden I found that article about Clomid very interesting. I assume I'm ovulating(or have been) as I've got pregnant several times but egg quality could be an issue for me so I wonder if Clomid would increase my chances of getting a good one if more eggs were released. Are you having your treatment privately or on the NHS? My GP certainly wasn't encouraging about a referral for any investigation for recurrent miscarriage but it might be worth talking to her again or considering a private referral to see a specialist. The other thing is though that I don't think DH would be keen on assisted fertility treatment, he's of a mind that if it's meant to happen it will. He doesn't even like to think about charting or timing etc. I suppose I do enough thinking and obsessing for both of us!
You know you mentioned Fertility Friend was inaccurately indicating you'd ovulated? I've been putting my temps from my Duofertility monitor on FF and the last two cycles each has given a different ovulation day, just out by a day, but when I put on the cycle where I'd conceived(so I know Duo was right) FF was out by 5 days! So I think these things are useful as a tool, but still open to interpretation.

AngelGeorgie Sat 27-Oct-12 20:17:36

Diege happy first birthday Samuel xxxx grin where has that year gone? Hi all xxx

Irishmammybread Sat 27-Oct-12 20:25:00

Calibee thinking of you this weekend, I'm sure it will be an emotional farewell but just think about the reunion you'll have on his first weekend off!

Diege have a good day tomorrow on ds's birthday, is he having a party?
My dd2 is 9 in a month(exactly a month today as she reminded me at 6.30am this morning,she getting excited already!).She planning her birthday party in great detail!

pink ,you can relax now, you've timed things to perfection!

Hope everyone else is having a good weekend.

goldengirl71 Sat 27-Oct-12 20:40:03

Irish, egg quality could be an issue for me so I wonder if Clomid would increase my chances of getting a good one if more eggs were released. Here is your answer: 'each woman has her own unique ovarian pyramid. When fertility drugs are used, we go deeper into the pyramid of activated eggs. That is, we are able to supply more follicle stimulating hormone than a woman normally makes and rescue eggs that would otherwise have lost the competition for dominance in that month and would have undergone attrition'

This heartens me greatly, I have to say. I also like the feeling that I am not alone any more in that I am being assisted by the 'professionals', if you see what I mean. I am being helped by the NHS.

What horrified me about fertility friend was that, after treating their charting process as a sacred cow for so long, they have proved to be wrong in my case. That sustained shift in temp I saw was - for at least one of my cycles - a false representation of ovulation. I shudder to think how many other cycles I was given false hope.

littlepinkfizz Sat 27-Oct-12 21:38:57

How was the lasagne irish? It is dds 13 th birthday on nov 5 th and all she wants, bless her is one direction bed covers!

golden I have a really good feeling about you this month. I don't think professionals would give you false hope and she was certainly positive re your chances.

diege happy birthday to the little fella for tomorrow!

Does when you take your first period have any bearing on anything fertility wise?just asking as I didn't start until I was 15 [ she asks desperately] .

I'm guessing not as I haven't heard anyone mention it and I suppose the eggs are there from birth.

Hope everyone is enjoying their Saturday night.! Don't forget your extra hours lie in tomorrow[ not for me as getting up with ds of 20 mths] but don't mind x

Irishmammybread Sat 27-Oct-12 22:46:16

The lasagne turned out well thank you pink and it was followed by chocolate fudge brownies made by DD2, mmmm.......
She's 13 too and also a One Direction fan.

I've wondered too, if the age you start your periods could affect how many eggs you have left when you're older. Also,if you don't ovulate when you're breastfeeding does that mean you have a greater egg reserve left? (I figured out I've spent a total of about 4 years breastfeeding my three).

I don't think I'll be getting a lie in tomorrow either, our geriatric (15y!) labrador has taken to barking to be let out between 5 and 6 am and I can never get back to sleep once I've been up and outside. Tomorrow that will be about 4 or 5 am, eek!

golden I think I should perhaps arm myself with a print out of that article and visit my GP!

hopefulgum Sun 28-Oct-12 01:21:06

Irish and Pink, I used to wonder that too, and thought because I'd spent years pregnant and breastfeeding (and hence, not ovulating) I'd still have a great vat full of eggs, but alas, it isn't so.Apparently when we don't ovulate the eggs aren't stored for later, they just disappear.I know that isn't quite a scientific account, but that is gist of what I found out. Disappointing,I know. I think one thing that is supposed to have some bearing on our egg supply and quality is genetics, general health and when our own mother went through menopause. My genetics are pretty good, I have a grandmother and great grandmother who had babies in their 40's (but not as late as 46sad), my mother was about 50 when her periods stopped for good, but I know,health-wise I am in much better shape than my gran and my mum, so I am hoping that helps too. Unfortunately I used to smoke from about 18-24 years old and I know that can cause some damage. I wish now I hadn't, but I did.

Golden, I did like what that article said about "the pyramid" of eggs,and how clomid might just bring out some better ones, but I still feel reluctant. For every good thing I read about fertility drugs, I also read something negative so it is hard to make a balanced judgement. I'm still checking out the clomid on ebay,and I will talk to my GP when I have my next pap smear (in a few days).

What you said about DHEA:"He told me that nothing can improve the quality of a woman's eggs. This is why I do not believe in the likes of DHEA",I know you trust your consultant, but his is only one opinion. At the centre for human reproduction in the U.S, they have done trials and have used it with great benefits. You can read about it here if you like.

Deige, I can't believe that Samuel is one. Wow! Where did that year go? I hope you do post some pics, I'd love to see him.

Well, we had a lovely get together last night. I drank champagne and wine and felt happy, our friends are great fun,and one of them,is the only person in RL who knows and understands my struggles to have one last baby. She has two DC,s and conceived her last baby at 41, on the last month of ttc (her DH didn't want to continue). Now her DH thanks her for making him take the plunge because he only ever wanted one and found the first baby hard work (aren't they all). Her doctor told them that if they didn't want more children they would have to use contraception until she was 45 as there was a good chance of getting pregnant again, and after 45,he suggested that they get something permanent done if they didn't want more children. It is funny to hear that when we are consistently told that we have such a tiny chance of getting pregnant (unless of course you really don't want toconfused)BTW, I think she was ttc for about 12 months.

It is a beautiful sunny day,so I plan to take a really long walk on the beach and perhaps even a swim.smile

10000Fireflies Sun 28-Oct-12 01:55:56

Just popping in to say hi, while I try and wind down a little from the coffee buzz I'm on. Remind me not to have caffeine after 1pm again!!

Happy Birthday Samuel! Delighted to hear Mummy's a fully paid up TTcer again. Atta girl Diege. Knew it was only a matter of time!

I like your story Gum about contraception in the over 40s. Gives us all hope. Sounds like you had a nice time with your friends. Sending you big un-mumsnetty hugs. I hope you get that BFP soon.

I haven't been able to catch up properly on everyone's news, but I do want to stick up for alternative therapies and supplements etc. Worked for me, and am more than happy to send links to anyone who's interested. The real rip-off is the price of fertility treatments, in particular IVF. Lord Winston had some press coverage on it at the beginning of the year, and it confirmed my suspicions that the prices are artificially high. The NHS must make millions on it every year. I hope I never have to go through it again.

I am looking forward to joining you all properly again soon. Good to know you can TTC with more limited BF. Love BFing DS. Even though he has teeth!! (He could have waited - why did my baby have to get them at 16 weeks!)

Finally nodding off. Sweet dreams all! FF xx

beancounter50 Sun 28-Oct-12 01:23:01

Hi there, just wanted to add some encouragement to everyone over 40. I had my one and only PFB 8 years ago..when I was 42, having finally met the right man when I was 40. My work colleague has had 2 DCs both since she turned 40

littlepinkfizz Sun 28-Oct-12 07:44:09

Seems like men,as we already knew, have it all. This will be off interest if all of us who have nagged our dps in the interests of trying to conceive. men

I find it hard to believe myself and still reckon cutting out or at least down on fags,booze and other drugs must help.

Did get a lie in after all! Ds only woke at 7.18am new time! Hooray! grin

Diege Sun 28-Oct-12 09:58:10

Morning! Yes, I also wondered about the effect of pregnancies on egg supply, and also about age of first period. I have heard that the earlier your periods start, the earlier they stop hmm which might therefore mean the later, then the later... I'm sure there are poeople who could disprove either way.

Well despite my cunning plan to get ds2 to wake usual time what with the hr, it has spectatculalry backfired. His meals/naps/final bedtime were all an hr later yesterday, with the planned effect he would wake an hr later (ie. the 'new' 6.30am which is his usual on a good day). But he woke after all efforts an hr earlier than his 'usual' (ie. 5.30; the new 4.30 shock) Feeling very tired...
Have small party planned this afternoon for family and will post piccy onto profile later. Amazing the contrast with dc1 who had 'the works' for her first party. Dc5 has had £4.99 spent on him, though has also had 2 nice jumpers from The White Company and 2 Mini Boden outfits...
Good to hear you'll be ttc-ing soon fireflies!! Was it Xmas you said before?
Thermometer arrived yesterday, so starting to get back in the saddle. Still on af but the anticipation is quite exciting! Oh Gum meant to ask, do you stop your vitex after ovulation? Have read different things.

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:01:35

Funny that you should be talking about the onset of menstruation. I was 17 and at college doing my 'A' levels when my periods started. I had undergone rigorous hospital tests the year before as I was being horribly bullied at school because of my lack of tits/height/pubic hair (damn those school showers)/boyfriend. I was prodded and poked by a consultant whilst I lay naked on a bed with my father just beyond the curtain. She was looking for pubic/armpit hair. I was mortified. I was made to shit in cartons for three days running (they had to be stored in a cool, dry place - my shoe cupboard) and then taken to the hospital for testing. They were looking for coeliac disease. I drank more barium meals and swallowed more cameras than I care to remember. All the tests came back negative. I was a 'slow developer'. I remember the consultant asking Dad how old he was when he first shaved (21!) Mum was 15 when she started her periods and so was my sister.

All of this (but most of all the incessant twatting I was getting at school) made me terribly unhappy with my body and its seeming inability to just grow and work properly. What I didn't know about periods and the reproductive cycle wasn't worth knowing but my body just wouldn't do its thing. But, oh! when AF arrived! My body seemed to change overnight. I shot up, grew fabulous breasts, boys were very interested, and I responded...erm...enthusiastically. I finally lost my virginity at 19 and never looked back. I was hugely promiscuous and ending up becoming a stripper in my thirties. Ho-hum.

I often think back to those times though (I hate the word 'scarred'. I much prefer 'suck it up') and there are strange similarities to how I feel now about ttc. Once again I feel as though, until this body starts to work properly, I will remain a woman/child, always on the outside looking in at everyone else who has been there, done that and had the baby. Just as I felt that girls who had started there periods were in some sort of cult, I am more and more seeing motherhood as a 'cult'; one of which I will never be a member.

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:02:59

Ooh! Happy Birthday, Samuel! biscuit

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:09:16

My brave and foolish man has gone to run the Preston Guild marathon today. I say 'foolish' because he hasn't done a scintilla of training in the nine weeks since he started his job. He paid for the race yonks ago and yesterday he returned from visiting his son having registered for the race. All I could do was shovel kilos of pasta down his throat all night and lend him my vaseline for his nipples. My work here is done...

"RUN, FORREST DP, RUN!!"

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:18:00

Pink, thanks for that link, interesting. I also suspect diet and lifestyle are irrelevant. Look at malnourished Ethiopian women who have huge families. Look at the working-classes with their diet and lifestyle. Poppin' 'em out! wink

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:31:07

Gum, thanks for the DHEA link. I read it trying to be objective, but it niggles me that the Centre For Human Reproduction, the leader in fertility treatment for women with diminished ovarian reserve, only talk about the success of DHEA when it is used in conjunction with their IVF programme. I'm with 10000fireflies in that I don't trust the ethics of IVF research and 'evidence'. It's all about the money.

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:37:23

10000fireflies, I agree it sucks that the NHS makes money out of infertile women (which is why I found the lionising of the NHS at the Olympic opening ceremony rather nauseating), but they don't make nearly as much as private fertility clinics. My Clomid, and all the wonderful help and understanding I have had thus far - from my GP, to the sonographer and consultant - have been free on the NHS and for that I am very, very grateful.

Diege Sun 28-Oct-12 12:05:19

Hi again! Have posted a picture of ds2 today on top of profile picks. He doesn;t seem to be suffering any ill-effects for his mega-early start hmm
Golden agree too about the ethics of IVF - my sister went through 3 lots of it and, as a midwife, she had lots to say about the ethics/costing of the treatments (she did her Masters on it). I would disagree though about the irrelevance of diet/lifestyle. Certainly, for the average joe I would agree they matter little (apart from smoking which does seem to have a significant effect, esp for men) but for those of us with other issues (eg. age, thyroid problems etc) I think they can at times shift the balance - not cause a conception, but at least create an environment more conducive to successful conception. After my mmc a few years ago I certainly cleaned my act up, esp diet-wise, and while it may have been a coincidence my bp did drop, ditto cholestrol levels, and my cycles regulated. I'm sure that had some effect on my successful conception, though of course I'll never know.
Horrible rainy day today - must go and make some fairy cakes and cheer the troops!

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 17:46:49

Hey ladies...I'm back. The evil deed is done. OH left alone at Catterick and I blubbed for most of the 3 hour journey home and again when I got in to remove his water glass from by the bed and his clothes from the floor.....why does it feel like he's gone for good when he will be home for a couple of days in three weeks time.
Had the most horrifying of embarrasing moments when his new Platoon Sergeant ( or whatever he was called) asked if I was his Mom or his partner!!!!! Raaa fucking raaa.....feel as low as low can be and need a cuddle.
I thought menopause was linked familialy i.e if your Mom was 50 when she had menopause then you could expect it similarly. My Mom got out of that by having an early hysterectomy at about my age (42) but mu sister at 51 has just about stopped her periods

theeyeofthetiger Sun 28-Oct-12 18:50:30

Hi everyone! I've been lurking, reading your stories and following the thread for a while now. I turned 40 this year and with that came an overwhelming desire to have another baby. My dd is 11 and I haven't wanted a second child in any of the intervening years. So, we started ttc in August...and here I am! I think I have a lot to learn, acronyms notwithstanding! But, for the time being it would be share the journey.

theeyeofthetiger Sun 28-Oct-12 18:53:46

.'..share the journey?'
'Good to share the journey'!

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 19:20:50

Hey Tiger.....big welcome to you x

10000Fireflies Sun 28-Oct-12 19:25:51

Welcome tiger. May your journey to DC #2 be a short one! Acronyms here

Diege - Samuel is supercute. I can't wait to see what baby Fireflies is like in 8 months.

BTW, anyone looking into IVF will find that the NHS is about the same price as private clinics (ARGC excepted), and they may have you haning around longer. I object massively to just how much money even the NHS makes from IVF treatment.

I am clinging on to the fact that I was one of the last in my age group to start my periods and am therefore allowing myself to believe I have better fertility than the average 43 year old. There's nothing like a PMA to get you preggers. smile Must stock up on OPKs.

Big virtual cuddle for you Calibee. Realise what the Sarge said was a bit blush, but is quite funny and I am a bit envy too.

Have a nice cosy Sunday pm all.

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 19:41:28

Hug very greatfully excepted FF
Agree with you about Sarge's comment...he got a very wide eyed "hey cheeky you're only jealous"...hehe , bet my OH was cringeing. Ah well...I am what I am and I was older than all those in charge today...they need to learn a little respect ? SIR!!!!! grin
Daughter has just popped out for a KFC for me and DS even came and hugged me when he arrived home from his Dads earlier. I like being spoilt I do.
Ladies please tell me why I have just spent £45 on an AMH home test just to double check my very poor results?? confused I really shouldnt do too much Googling but have found a few people saying that they got different results from 2 tests. My Dr seemed to think it was an unvariable test.

remnant Sun 28-Oct-12 19:50:52

fireflies Is ARGC more or less expensive than most? I've got an appointment at another clinic booked in (lister, anyone using them?). Unfortunately the clinic seem to assume I want IVF and I'll be bringing dh. They've sent huge forms for us both to fill in before the appointment. I'm not even planning on telling him I'm going! I just want a check-up to see what chances there are of me conceiving naturally, and what I can do to improve things (eg. like take DHEA or clomid). I hadn't really thought of going to GP about it. I can't imagine them doing anything other than tell me that I'm too old and that they've no intention on spending money on any tests for me.

Golden, you're a youngster grin! I have been enjoying your frankness. I'd love to share so freely or express myself half as well. Bit scared though wink

beancounter and triple, your comments are much appreciated here

remnant Sun 28-Oct-12 19:52:36

A home AMH test? that sounds a lot cheaper <off to google>

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 20:02:07

From Duofertility remnant
I have finally got round to updating my profile page with a pic.....eeek. Its nice to see a face behind the writing.

Diege Sun 28-Oct-12 20:23:43

Ooh Calibee you are very gorgeous envy as is your man grin. Not being stalker-ish (I hope!) but you live very near to where I work (Wrexham) - lovely part of the world (your place, not mine!).
Feeling very sick after gorging on chocolate catapillar cake and my homemade banana and chocolate chip...>>>my face envy

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 20:29:59

Aww thankyou diege ....sadly not feeling everso gorgeous this evening. Infact I feel like a proper dried up old hag to put it bluntly. Pj's on, blanket to stop the draughts and only a bony greyhound to cuddle up to lol.
Oh Wrexham...I didnt realise you were so near grin. I actually passed through this weekend on my way oooop north.

hippychick66 Sun 28-Oct-12 20:44:54

Happy Birthday to samuel - once known as diegebean grin.

Auntie Flo turned up at my door today - is that odd? you ask. Well it was CD68!!! Think menopause is defo beginning for this old Hippy.

have only read the last few posts but see that diege is TTC - OMG you and your even numbers - you go, bezzie. smile

hippychick66 Sun 28-Oct-12 20:47:45

Sorry calibee I totally missed the bit where your other half left to do his training. so so sorry you didn't manage a sneaky BFP before he went. keep charting and fingers crossed an egg will co-incide with a lovely welcome home on your break shag soon. Virtual hugs from me. ((())) smile

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 20:54:33

Calibee, you sure are a beautiful-looking couple. I've added pics of me, DP and my mother! grin

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 21:01:12

Thankyou hippychick the house is a quiet one tonight. My bed will feel huge sad. He managed a quick call to say he had been allocated a bed in a room next to a guy who has already stunk out the dorm....sniggers. Phone signal was pants however.
I'm enjoying these pics ladies....diege such beautiful babies, and you too of course. And golden not atall what I expected...you look great x

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 21:02:28

Oh just re-read that.....*golden*...not that I thought you would look bad, just that I had formed a different "look" for you. Dont ask me to explain.....lol.

goldengirl71 Sun 28-Oct-12 21:03:18

Remnant, what a lovely thing to say, thank you thanks

Welcome, Eyeofthetiger...may I call you Tiger?

Calibee, I was going to say I would have tw*tted that sergeant chap but after looking at your photo I would say a) your OH looks older than you and b) the sergeant was rendered temporarily brain-addled by your sexiness grin

Hippy, shock at your 68 dayer! How do you feel about it all? Sending an un-mumsnetty, proper hug in case you're feeling shit.

10000Fireflies Sun 28-Oct-12 21:04:44

Glad you are getting some TLC CaliBee. Gum is our resident expert on testing - hope she can answer your question re AMH.

remnant ARGC is arm-and-a-leg expensive. I've heard of someone who spent £21K on one (gasp!) cycle. I went to the Lister. They were pretty good, even if they didn't get me a BFP. You could get tests via your GP, but most of those we had we had to duplicate for the Lister. The testing is not the expensive part anyway. Obvs, some consultants better than others. I bet you're seeing Tolba?! He's the oldies specialist!! I am grateful for him for talking me out of using donor eggs - I was in a total panic when I went. Parikh's the best but you can have probs seeing her, and you'll find that IVF treatment is a bit 'colour by numbers' as far as protocol goes.

Gotta go. DS screaming place down.

theeyeofthetiger Sun 28-Oct-12 21:16:35

Thank you for your welcomes!

I am on CD 24 but don't really have any idea how long this cycle will be. My last one was 43 days, which was the one and only AF I've had since my coil was removed. I know it can take a few months for some women's bodies to return to normal (and I had no AF for 10 years while I had the coil), so I'm hoping that this cycle will be round about 30 days....

theeyeofthetiger Sun 28-Oct-12 21:26:02

Golden - thanks for asking. 'Tiger' is fine! When I finally decided to bite the proverbial bullet and join the chat, I tried in vain to come up with something interesting/original/personal as a nickname. As you can see, all that happened in the end was a loss of inspiration and the title of a song that happened to be playing on the radio!

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 21:33:28

tiger I had mirena removed Jan ( I was also taking Norethisterone followed by the mini pill adjunct to it, in an attempt to stop nuisance bleeding)I then carried on with progesterone only pill (after it was removed) when I stopped to ttc. Since then I have had a 50, 27,28,41 and 46 day cycle. I was always a regular 28 days pre coil as far as I remember.
I just had Provera and Clomid prescribed.

theeyeofthetiger Sun 28-Oct-12 21:45:41

Thanks CaliBee. I've heard and read of some people's cycles being all over the place; it makes trying to chart and track ovulation really difficult, doesn't it? Not that I've done much of that yet because last month I was quite relaxed about it, whereas this month it's all I can think about. Trying to second guess what my body might be up to is obsessional. If you don't mind me asking, how soon after you started ttc did you go to the doctor? I went just before I had my AF to see if they could shed any light on what was happening, but was told to come back if I hadn't had a period for 3 months! Now that I have had one, I'm not sure at what point it's advisable to bang of their door again.

CaliBee Sun 28-Oct-12 21:50:29

I went almost straight away I think maybe the next month, poss June....I had already googled ttc over 40 and was worried by the results. Also knowing that OH was going away meant that time was even more precious. I was thinking maybe my Dr could prescribe clomid...however she was a locum and asked advice from the other Gp's at the practice and decided to refer me straight away. We had our first hospital appointment in July where they just ordered all the tests and then the follow up with consultant (ahem...wasnt impressed) last Friday. Dont leave it.....get all the help asap if thats what you want.

theeyeofthetiger Sun 28-Oct-12 21:57:22

Thanks for the advice CaliBee. I think I'll see what happens this month (hoping for some good news, of course!) and then make an appointment. I do want all the help I can get (in whatever form). Have no idea if my local GP surgery is any good but have no reason to believe they wouldn't be helpful with this.
I saw on your previous posts that your OH is away for a few weeks. I hope it's bearable and that you get a lot of virtual love until he's home again x

hopefulgum Sun 28-Oct-12 23:10:05

Wow, so much going on,all whilst I sleep!

It is great to put faces to names, thanks for the pics girls. Deige, your children are scrumptious! I can't wait to see what your next looks like.

FF, it is nice to hear from you. Is everything going well?

Hippy, sorry to hear about your 68 dayer. You know, all is not hopeless, I have heard of women falling pregnant when they thought they had finished having periods.I know you aren't officially ttc, but I am sure you'd love a pregnancy and baby all the same.

Calibee, you don't look old at all, and your partner is gorgeous too. You two will make a gorgeous little baby.

Golden, I love,love,love your haircut, you look fabulous,and your partner looks lovely too.

I can't remember who mentioned the at home AMH test? I am all for DIY,especially if it saves money, but just be aware that the test may not be as accurate as in a lab. After my DH had his vasectomy reversal,we did an at home sperm test. It really didn't make us any the wiser and just added to my worry.That's not to say the AMH test is anything like it.The other thing is, although doctors say that the AMH will not fluctuate, I have read on mumsnet of a lady who had the test repeated and got a very different (much better) result a year after the first test. So,perhaps,keep an open mind about it all.

I do believe that being armed with knowledge about ourselves is very powerful, but I have also learnt how the results of tests can give you a great big dose of anxiety. I will never forget after having a truckload of tests, being told by my doctor that my estrogen was too low, my AMH was too low and my chances of ovulating were slim to nil. That was a sad day for me. Then I had the 21 day progesterone test (same month) and was told I had indeed ovulated and had a healthy level of progesterone that would sustain a pregnancy. After that I lost all respect for numbers and decided to believe that my body is still capable of doing the right thing and that if I am meant to have another baby, I will.

I guess that is why I like alternative therapies. I like the positive way they look at the human body, the idea that we can heal ourselves without having to manipulate and disturb our bodies with potent chemicals which can upset the balance further. I also like that my TCM practitioner says that in traditional Chinese medicine they believe a woman is fertile until she is 49, and that balancing the body is key.I guess I feel supported by her where the conventional doctors are pessimistic (and I suppose some would say realistic about my chances) and less supportive.And I suppose on this perilous journey I prefer to be surrounded with positivity rather than "realism". It doesn't hurt me, I'm still realistic about my chances, but I'd prefer to feel hopeful.

Sorry, I just got carried away on a tangent there...

It was a gorgeous day yesterday and we spent the morning at the beach. Divine. IT felt like summer holidays.It was just what I needed. Today is overcast, but that's probably a good thing because I should catch up on the housework. I'm also going to try an add some photos now.

Also meant to say earlier,Hello and welcome tiger.

hopefulgum Sun 28-Oct-12 23:36:47

Keeping up with the spirit of things - I posted some more pics.

JBrd Sun 28-Oct-12 23:44:08

So nice to see the photos, thanks, ladies! I will try and get some uploaded in the next couple of days, , too, it's nice to put faces to 'names'.

In spite of AF arriving on Thursday, I managed to pick myself up again a bit to have a reasonably nice weekend. DH managed to go out together for the first time since DS was born almost 17 months ago. I can't believe it's taken us so long! Friends babysat, and we went down to London at saw Muse at the O2. It was great - not only the concert, but just getting away for the night and doing 'normal' stuff and forgetting (well almost) about all the worries and the stress that's been going on. And to top it off, we got a nice lie-in because DS stayed over at our friends'.

Then we met up with our NCT friends this afternoon, which burst the bubble again... Both ladies are pregnant again, and of course this came up in the course of the conversation. As happy as I am for them, it just made me incredibly sad that I couldn't join in.
Reading all your stories and experiences, I'm starting to think I need to get more proactive and make sure that everything is as it should be, with both me and DH. Where can you get home sperm tests, and are they any good? How would I go about getting tested myself, do I need to get an appt with my GP? What do they test to make sure you are ovulating?

Hello to the newbies - I've not been on here very long myself, and the ladies here are fountains of knowledge, as well as being so kind! You'll like it here.

CaliBee Mon 29-Oct-12 07:28:19

hopeful your optimism is so uplifting I have to say...and if your belief in alternative therapies is helping you to stay positive then that is a better medication than most. Love the pics x
jbrd I cant help you with places to get home sperm tests tbh.....I remember when OH took his though he had to take it straight to hospital kept warm in his pocket so it will be interesting to hear how its done as a home test. Glad you had a lovely weekend smile
I confess to thinking very seriously about skiving off today. I woke at about 5am in the huge bed on my own. My house is a mess, havent done all the washing over the weekend and I want to have a big sort out of my clothes....too many just dont fit!!! Then I remembered my colleague is on holiday this week and I realised I just couldnt do it.

CaliBee Mon 29-Oct-12 07:36:26

golden so are you now officially in 2ww?? Hows it going???

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 09:17:21

Hopeful, I understand entirely where you are coming from with your vision of alternative therapies, I do. It's just that we don't have the luxury of time, do we? It's all very well saying that we can 'heal ourselves' without 'disturbing our bodies with potent chemicals', but I want my body disturbed with chemicals! It isn't working properly. If these 'chemicals' can reach into our pyramid of eggs and bring forth ova which would otherwise have undergone attrition isn't it worth a shot? The Chinese may rethink their view of a 49 year-old woman's fertility if they came and read this thread. There are so few women on here getting pregnant over 42 and I for one want more success stories on here...for you, too, Gum x
Thank you so much for your lovely complement about my hair & DP. He is not an Adonis in the aesthetic sense but, my! he is a fine man smile He managed, in the most vicious of weather yesterday, to finish the marathon in 4½ hours. Moreover, it took him over two hours, two trains and a bus to get home shock What a hero.

Well, it's 6DPO or me here and I am seeing lofty temperatures which haven't been evident since my pregnancy chart back in January hmm My knickers are stained every day from thick, fibrous, creamy discharge (the likes of which I haven't seen in my underwear since my teens). I am, of course, ludicrously hopeful of BFP this month, but then again..I would be, wouldn't I?

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 09:20:09

Gum! Just seen your photo! You look 38! And beautiful! smile

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 09:45:06

JBrd, I would encourage you to go straight to your GP. He can arrange day 3 and day 21 blood tests at his surgery. The day 3 test checks FSH, LH, and some other stuff like thyroid, glucose, chlamydia(!) etc. FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) is a good indicator of your ovarian reserve. Anything over 10 is considered poor. The day 21 progesterone test reveals whether ovulation took place that month. (If I am fudging the facts here, ladies, do jump in). I've forgotten how old you are and how long you've been ttc this time but try being bold with your GP and ask for a referral to a fertility consultant. The process is really fast, I promise. I would not trust a home sperm test. They have to be at the hospital lab within the hour, for pity's sake! Good luck, JBrd. P.s..I am envious of your social life. I am so pleased you were able to seek out fun with your DP - so important.

Hey there, Calibee. Glad you've got your lazy arse to work. I've got a mammoth trek to Tesco to look forward to (not forgetting my hilarious taxi ride back with Charlie, our Asian taxi driver, who loves patting my tummy, kissing my hand and promising one of his home-brewed potions will get me pregnant). Then, at the monstrously inconvenient time of 6.20pm I have yet another odyssey to the GP surgery for my day 21 blood test. Hooray! In between I have a pile of manuscripts to edit (well, two, but they are thick hmm) Have a wonderful day everyone x

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 09:46:51

JBrd, I thought I told you to ditch those NCT birds..

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 09:53:02

Gum! I've only just seen the pics of your kids! They are gorgeous! And so is that beach! I have revised my opinion of how old you look - it is now 36.

hopefulgum Mon 29-Oct-12 10:45:47

Ha ha!grin Of course I look only 36 (you can't see the wrinkles can you?They are scary up close!) If only my eggs looked 36.

Actually was reading a book today about miscarriage,and the interesting thing that I read was that it isn't actually our age ,as such, that is important, it is more about how close we are to menopause. So a woman who is closer to early menopause will actually be worse off than an older woman who is yet to go through menopause at 59. Anyway, it was interesting.

I'd like to write more, but I must serve up dinner (malaysian chicken curry).

Thanks for the compliments about my kids.I think they are lovely, but I'm biased.

Fireflies, I'd love to hear about the supplements etc you were using, I have forgotten.
Deige,I took the Vitex up to ovulation,then stopped as it is supposed to have a clomid type effect.

I'll be back in the morning to catch up with the latest goss...

TinaO99 Mon 29-Oct-12 12:35:39

wow gum and golden you both look fab in your photos, I'm only going to post some of me circa 1986 then maybe I'll look as young!!

I took the end of the week off/worked at home last week as I had a bit more bleeding which made me frantic - care just said it was probably my uterus stretching but I think I'd been overdoing it, felt a lot better by friday and the bleeding had stopped. Still doing tests every few days and they're still very positive but I don't think I'll feel ok until I have my scan this friday.

My dh is convinced I'm having twins, that would be great but i think financially and physically I'd be more than ok with one! I'm already knackered and feel twice my age and I'm only just 7 weeks gone! cheese how are you doing, have you had your first scan yet?

hope everyone else is ok and hi to the newbies grin

TinaO99 Mon 29-Oct-12 12:37:46

by the way golden meant to ask you how did you get into freelance editing? It's something I'd love to do but I guess it's not that easy to break into? I've got degrees in english lit and library/information mgmt not sure if these would help?

remnant Mon 29-Oct-12 14:29:49

Very interested to hear that you can those tests from GP. I thought that since NHS don't do IVF for over 40's they wouldn't do tests on fertility status. Is there a trick to getting the tests done? Really just a question of asking for them?

Love all the pictures BTW. You all look glam to me. Calibee i think i've just undertood the significance of start of your man's training. wishing you lots of luck with timing things around leave x

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 15:08:55

Tina, I started off working for free for local newspapers, then magazines. The majority of my work comes through a dear friend of mine who is head of the Education department at a local university and chucks dissertations and theses my way. I used to work for both Waterstones and Borders and have many contacts who recommend me to new authors. It's all very small-scale and unglamorous and I turn down alot of work because it is a daily reminder of my personal failure to graduate (three times I attempted my third year - each time reaching January - and each time the alcoholism brought me down. My final attempt saw me having a complete nervous breakdown during a drunken presentation in one of the lecture halls. I was admitted to the psychiatric ward of my local hospital where I got hold of a pair of scissors, cut off all my hair and slashed my wrist in the bathroom). Of course I recovered and, when I left rehab last year I decided that enough was enough; I had nothing to prove academically and I needed a good year or two to just learn to be 'me' minus the alcohol.

I have found working with dissertations and literature in general rather dispiriting and I don't need the constant reminder of my own academic 'failings'. Unfortunately I live out in the sticks (the council dumped me here after rehab, it's beautiful but I'm miles from anywhere and anyone) and jobs are hard to come by. However, I don't want a career. I don't want lots of money. I just want a baby. So I shall carry on doing what I am doing, which is extremely isolating, but I see no other option. Sorry to have ended the answer to your query, Tina, with more 'me' blatherings.

goldengirl71 Mon 29-Oct-12 15:24:04

Remnant, although the NHS will not consider IVF for women over 39 or whose partners already have children (bastards), they are more than happy to refer you for fertility tests (I am proof of this). I am convinced that the amount of help you get is entirely measurable by how bold/weepy/beseeching/voluble you are in your GPs surgery. Would I have received all the wonderful help and sympathy I have had if I was 45 with four kids at home? I cannot say. Did it help that I wept in the GP's surgery and spoke in terms of my life being meaningless? Probably. Would I have taken 'no' for an answer from a less sympathetic GP. No I fucking would not. I read an article a few months ago in the health pages of some journal I was reading as part of my job and it said that the amount of money the government sets aside within the NHS for each person's lifetime in the UK is £75,000. I have always been an advocate for asking for what I want - in all walks of life - but this article has buttressed my dealings with health professionals like you wouldn't believe. Be brave and ask for what you need.

CaliBee Mon 29-Oct-12 17:36:21

Oh golden that breakdown sounded awful. I'm so glad you got your life back on track.
So my day at work was sloooooow. Boss has been signed off sick for at least 2 weeks (stress I believe!! ) so work was constant with only 50% of the work force. But it still dragged like crazy. I have however, come home to a tidy/clean house and a cup of tea made for me...my son must be after something lol. Managed a quick 2 minute chat with OH at lunchtime before he got called to do a pt session and medical....bless. Apparently it was raining up in North Yorks.
Fourth day of Provera for me...hope it works and I can get an egg ripe for weekend of 17/11..

littlepinkfizz Mon 29-Oct-12 17:48:53

Gosh golden you have had it tough but are a shining example of ' I get knocked down....' I work in mental health and have also suffered problems as well.

Love to all.. Now in the wonderful 2 we! But no symptom spotting. Reckon we should get our BFPs close together golden !

FrothyTop Mon 29-Oct-12 18:36:13

Hello! I have been lurking on this thread for a while, and just cannot resist telling GoldenGirl that my little sister had a very similar experience being a "late developer", while I and my older sister developed much earlier, so I was dubious when her doc told her as a teenager that "all girls develop differently". Fast forward 20 years, she was TTC for ages before being diagnosed with a tiny tumour (no problems from it, other than the late developing, slightly long cycles) AND she went on Clomid AND she got BFP two months later!!!

somewherebecomingrain Tue 30-Oct-12 08:52:42

I just want to say I know this thread is about TTC but some really impressive honesty is taking place about mental health. This is quite zeitgeisty given Ed Miliband's comments yesterday and i just wanted to quickly remark on it. I have a severely mentally ill person in my family who is actually slightly dangerous so I know it's not a simple equation. But people like that are in the minority. I have also had struggles with my mental health and I know that most of us are just trying to live a normal life and contribute to society and look after the people we love. Whilst I don't see any simple remedy for talking to employers and even friends about it I just think it's tremendous to see people speaking up about it on here.
baby dust to you all and hugs xx

and guess what - i just posted this on another completely unrelated thread!!!!
blush blush blush blush blush blush blush

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 09:36:17

Bloody hell, Pink, no pressure, then! wink I think I will be hopelessly optimistic and do a preggo test this Saturday (11DPO). My period is due three days later. What do you think, folks?

Frothytop, I could kiss you. Thank you so much for coming out of the 'lurky corner' to share that story with me. I was thrilled. Please come out of the shadows and join us if you'd like thanks P.s. what with yours and Trippletipple's names a recovering alcoholic could start to get a little jittery, if you know what I mean hmm wink

Somewhere, hiya sweetheart. You have alluded to your mental health experiences in the past and I thinnk you, too, sound rather courageous. It's tough having close relatives who are ill. My father, although not dangerous, was a non-criminal sexual predator amongst women and a manic depressive to boot. My sister and I witnessed four of my father's six suicide attempts before the ages of 13 and 10 respectively. I developed an obsessive fear of death and mental illness and mirrored some of my father's sexual deviance in later years. The difference between me and my father is that, until I became an alcoholic, none of my behaviours impacted on anybody else. I wasn't hurting other human beings. My dad was a contemptuous twat with my mother and she suffered greatly in her marriage and my sister and I saw and heard things which no children should.

I have been under two psychologists and required antidepressents sporadically for the last two decades (ironically I quit them yesterday - brace yourselves, girls!) Oddly enough, my fear of death, pain, suicide and everything disappeared over the years I was an alcoholic. I welcomed death and yeared for it many times. Too many times in hospital and then in rehab make you kind of numb. But, I have emerged with a very strong sense of all being right with the world, that suffering is inevitable. It isn't to be feared if you are loved - even by one person. When you don't have enough love for yourself, theirs will suffice. For me that was my mother. What I have also developed is a refusal to ask 'why me?' The question I now ask is 'why not me?' As human beings we are not as special as we would like to think we are. We are no more deserving that anybody else. Suffering and pain doesn't happen to us...it just happens, and there is nothing so meritorious within any one of us which makes us immune from life's horrible shit. I'm sorry to bore you, however I find it helps me to remember all of this when I get a BFN and I am tempted to wail 'it's not fucking fair!' Life isn't fair, and there are a plethora of women on this very thread who are testament to that.

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 09:41:13

I am sorry for all the typos - Little Ted is scampering across the keyboard and annoying the shit out of me.

notsoold Tue 30-Oct-12 11:37:33

Very good of you all to mention mental health,... and golden you explanation of self entitlement is right on the spot.
That was my father trigger to a lifelong batgle with depression
As a really large family , we have all sorts of degrees of mental health problems...and different from previous generations we are more willing to talk, hug , cry etc...and the idea of self entitlement to anything is always a topic...
Xxx

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:07:15

Notsoold, I am worried my post may have sounded glib to those on this thread who have known great pain; I am thinking particularly of Angelgeorgie and Mia'sMummy. The death of a child is horrific and I do not wish to negate anyone's experiences of suffering. So much of the terrible stuff in my life has been a direct result of the choices I have made. But suffering mentally is a whole barrel of misery. Moreover, I used to feel a very pronounced sense of shame that I had found myself in the darkest recesses of my mind and that I couldn't find a way out. I thank God for strong drugs and the intense therapy I received daily for the nine months I was in rehab. I feel very blessed.

I'd also like to clarify that when I said I 'mirrored some of my father's sexual deviance in later years', I did not mean I was a predator of women! Imeant that I became a prolific dogger and, for a short time during my decade as a stripper, I accepted money for sexual services. Where my head was in all this I have no idea, but I always experienced a huge thrill when indulging in risky sexual behaviours. I loved the power my body had over men and I do wonder if that was a result of the powerlessness and the shame I felt during my much-delayed puberty and a 'fuck you' two-fingered salute to my father.

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:12:30

Somewhere, I'm afraid I sniggered when you said you had accidentally posted your comment on another, unrelated thread! What a shame. I do wonder though...I'll bet your words will strike a chord with more than those of us on here.

TinaO99 Tue 30-Oct-12 12:16:46

golden thanks so much for the advice and I think you're incredibly brave to have come through what you have with such a wise head on your shoulders, I know what you mean about career meaning nothing next to having a baby, I put it off for years going through uni etc and trying to get into a job I actually looked forward to going into each day but to be honest it's all been for nothing, it hasn't got me through any doors so my opinion now is you don't always need a degree. I guess I still don't know what I really want to do (other than have a baby which is obviously my main concern at the moment lol) however I think you'll make a wonderful mother and I really hope it happens for you, if this last ivf hadn't worked it would have been the end of the road for me as I tried everything and luckily for me it did - still don't know what I'm going to do about all my debts (a lot of them incurred for fertility treatment) when i go on maternity leave but I'm trying not to worry about that for now! I've also been through the mill a bit the last few years, nothing like you I hasten to add but I had a particularly dark patch when I wanted to end it all but i thought of how my daughter would feel losing her mum and pulled myself together, and although at the time it's hard to see past the way youre feeling you somehow get through it and for me life is great now I guess life comes in cycles

notsoold Tue 30-Oct-12 15:19:16

Hi all again!!!
Golden I second you if what I said upsets anybody.
That is never my intention.

somewherebecomingrain Tue 30-Oct-12 16:44:12

golden snigger away. wierdly consistent with my RL persona - always doing that kind of thing. making a tit of myself generally. no way i'm putting my picture up on mumsnet i so prize my anonymity on here. i can scoot around talking about my fertility on one thread, my mental health on another, my food obsessions on another, my weight fears on yet another. my sister wanted to know my nickname and i was like, NO WAY although if you search for 'nachos' you'll find me.

hope all is well with you lovely ladies.

v excited to hear diege is back in the game. wishing good luck to hopeful who has beautiful kids i can see why you want another one!

tina i like your theory that life comes in cycles and i'm glad you're doing so well now.

hopefulgum Tue 30-Oct-12 23:00:48

Morning all. I do love this thread,I love the honesty and the fact that no subject is off limits. It is refreshing and helps me feel sane.

Although I've not experienced half of what many of you have in terms of heartache, I have had a glimpse of it and do understand that things can and do get very dark and at times hopeless. It is true that having a sense of being loved makes all the difference.

I had PND after my first baby and went through the shittest time of my life.Just when it should have been sunshine and roses,a brand new healthy baby,loving husband etc,etc, I didn't want to get out of bed or face the world,or bond with the screaming little boy who belonged to me.But I didn't get help for a long time.I was so ashamed of my feelings that I wouldn't even admit to them. Eventually I saw a doctor and he told me to give up breastfeeding.Which I did, and miraculously I slowly started to feel better. I wish I hadn't felt there was a stigma attached to depression.I think it is so important that we talk about it now, that there isn't shame attached to it.

I also think that depression isn't something that will just disappear. I think a person has to work at feeling better,has to do whatever it takes,be it drugs,therapy,exercise,diet,whatever, to maintain well-being. I still feel it from time to time, especially whilst ttc. The black dog seems to visit me every month these days, but at least he doesn't hang around for too long.

Golden, you know me, queen of the early testers, so yes,I'm encouraging you to test at 11 dpo. If it is negative you can put it down to being too earlysmile

Nothing new to report here. The year eights are still doing my head in,and some days I just want to tell them all to "fuck off". Of course I am professionalism personified and I just tell them to "run along" instead. It doesn't help that my head of department (home economics) is tits on a bull when it comes to helping with discipline. She just doesn't support me, so I'll have to come up with a devious plan to get back at the nasty little bastards.Tomato (Tabasco) sauce with that boys?shock

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 23:30:35

Tina, I do not know how I have ended up wise (if that is indeed what I am hmm) when all my life I have thrown myself headlong into such very unwise decisions and behaviours. I have led such a chaotic life and my recovery this past two years has been just so placid and peaceful. I wept when you said I would make a good mum (I must stop weeping on here). Thank you for your kindness. I know that, for you, this donor egg IVF was the last chance saloon and I think it is just brilliant that it worked. How blessed you are! x

Gum, I just chortled at your wicked plot to poison your year eights. Such a tough age. Your PND sounded just dreadful and I shuddered to recognise that utter bleakness you describe. How and why did stopping breastfeeding help?
I will take your advice and test at 11DPO. Gum, I've been meaning to ask your opinion about something I read which has given me the heebie-jeebies. Is it true that a BFP which can only be detected after 11DPO will by and large be a vulnerable pregnancy? I can't recall where I read this but I seem to remember it being an authoritative source. It worries me. When I got my BFP in January it was at 13DPO (12DPO was negative) and that ended in mmc.

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 23:45:11

Can I also just add that I need help in remaining realistic about a BFP this month. I am driving myself crazy scouring fertility friend pregnancy charts of women over 40 on Clomid (there were sqillions [happy]) To bring myself back down to earth with a bump I scoured the non-pregnant charts of women over 40 on Clomid who shared the exact same intercourse pattern as me (there were squillions sad). I've drawn up a list of reasons why I may just be blessed this month: 1) I am on Clomid!!! 2) I released two eggs!! 3) I had brilliantly timed sex and scored 'high' on the 'intercourse frequency monitor' on fertility friend 4) My body is now rid of the months-old infection from my decrepit tooth.
Here's my list of reason why a pregnancy this month is unlikely: 1) It's been nine months since I was pregnant so why the fuck should I get lucky this month? 2) I was x-rayed to within an inch of my life during my fertile window 3) I was on antibiotics for five days up to and including the day I ovulated 4) I have been pregnant twice in my life and both times I conceived around Christmas: 24th Dec (later aborted) and 16th January (mmc). I probably have an inability to conceive from February to November. Please help. I think I am having another breakdown.

goldengirl71 Tue 30-Oct-12 23:45:47

...I am joking about the breakdown but not about needing help.

CaliBee Wed 31-Oct-12 07:44:35

Golden I feel your anxiety from here, bless.
A couple of days ago you wrote something which stuck in my head.... not "why me?" but instead "why not me?" . And this is where that philosophy is so very important. You stand such a good chance this month, I've got everything crossed for you.
As for me...well I've decided to do 7 days on Provera so last day tomorrow. I'm not sure the consultant prescribed it quite right. When I looked into on our webase at work I could only see it prscribed as 10mg daily for 5-10 days to bring on a period. So the 20mg daily for 15 days seemed a little ott to me. I stuck with the 20mg but decided on 7 days to see what occured. I still think its very hit and miss that I will be lucky enough to ovulate in those few days he comes home in November, and infact he told me last night that his brother (back from Afghanistan on Sunday) will be staying with us too, so timing sex wont be too easy.
Just a funny note......we have both been taking the wellwoman/man conception tablets for the last few months. He had his medical yesterday and told the Dr that the tablets were contraception tablets not conception tablets. What a div!!! Phone calls are awkward though...he is in a room full of "lads" and is not allowed outside to make a phonecall.....the conversation is a little stilted.
I'm determined to get through this with him but cant deny its taking its toll this week.

goldengirl71 Wed 31-Oct-12 09:10:18

Ah, Calibee, thanks for reminding me of that and of course you are right..I have no reason to not apply that philosophy here.

Can you explain more how you plan to utilise the Provera and Clomid to your advantage? I don't think I understand properly how Provera works. Oh! The irony of your OH speaking of his 'contraception tablets'! I'm sorry your filthy phone sex is being thwarted by his dormitory pals. Could he maybe put you on loudspeaker and let everybody join in? wink

Diege Wed 31-Oct-12 09:55:01

Morning smile Ahh Golden you are going to explode with all your worries and questionnings, but I do know where you're coming from and would probably have done a sneaky test by now myself, so admire your strength. I think I might be able to shed some light on the 'late bfp = non-viable pregnancy' thing you read. It seems to link up with the info' I've read (from several sources) that says late implantation (after day 11) results in fewer successful pregnancies. Hence late implantation equals late rising hcg and later bfp. So a bfp after 11dpo doesn't in and of itself indicate a possible problem, as ovulation of course could be later and as such implantation actually the usual 7-10 days post-ov. Even then (at post 11 days), there were some viable pregnancies in the study. In my own experience my 1 mc gave an early bfp, the others were later (and the lines fainter too). Of course the sensible thing for you to do would be to wait until 15dpo and then test, not having the anxiety then of knowing if your bfp was 'just' there, or had been hanging around for a week or so...

calibee tough times for you too, though I did giggle at contraceptive tablets (bromide??) grin. What did the dr. say??

Gum Interesting that point about depression and bf. I had pnd with dd2 and also felt very much better when I stopped bf. I figured it was to do in part with drop in hormones post-bf, but probably more significantly, the decreased pressure on me to feed constantly, day and night, as I was not really enjoying it and I also felt guilty about not giving dd1 (only 16mths) much attention. I also went back to work at the same time which made me feel more human, so who knows what made it go away. I've never felt so poorly in my life, such a horrible feeling, and thankfully have never had it before or since. Dh on the other hand has horrible bouts of depression and I'll admit that I don't always handle it very well. I do feel resentful that I have to do absolutely everything with the dcs, the house, and also working long hrs while he just goes back to bed for hrs at a time. I know that that's wrong though and that it's a proper illness, so do try and empathise, but I do feel like giving him a shake at times..blush Any tips? Oh, sex always works I should add hmm
Right, better get on with stuff. Am 'working from home' which translates today as putting a lecture online and then getting on with painting ds1's bedroom ceiling...

remnant Wed 31-Oct-12 11:10:57

Well that was easy! I've just got the paper work from my gp for day 3 and day 21 tests. Now I just have to get myself to hospital for the blood tests on the right days. Because I've been having shortish cycles and late ov working out when to go for '21' day test could be tricky. I'm on day 15 of current cycle and no sign yet of ov. I may wait till next month to give all these dropped bf a chance of normalisingccycles. Anyway I think all cancel my appointment with Lister clinic and save my money. These tests are all I wanted from them

remnant Wed 31-Oct-12 11:15:49

Oops typing on tiny phone.

CaliBee Wed 31-Oct-12 17:50:56

Thats good news remnant.....
golden The provera is used in 2 ways really....one purely to normalise a long cycle. This is when it is taken from day 15. Apparently within a couple of cycles the body will take over. The other use is to bring on af as and when needed...like with me. So I can calculate when OH is home and assuming I bleed within the suggested 2-7 days of cessation of provera and then ovulate around day 14 (give or take a few days) after taking the Clomid, I can time ovulation. I think the first run may be a bit of a practice one and I have to book a scan around cd14 to check my reaction to the Clomid dose (I guess this is the same thing you had). I've just heard that they are timing the midcourse break with the Christmas holidays and he should get 2 weeks off, so fingers crossed.
I confess to feeling all sorts of ups and downs over the last few days. Dare I say I have even let it cross my mind that I'm really not cut out to be an Army wag and should I set him free.........of course thats probably being over dramatic and just my totally immature selfish reaction to being left home alone. I have that nervous pit in my stomach though and have spent today quietly funing with him for being online on the "whatsap" application at 8:17am and not even bothering to send me a message. I feel about 15. Pooo Poooo Pooooo

CaliBee Wed 31-Oct-12 18:27:00

diege we didnt finish the conversation to find out what the Dr said....it was one of those "gotta go".....beeeeep calls.

hopefulgum Wed 31-Oct-12 23:02:53

Morning ladies.
Nothing to report, but just wanted to send love to Calibee and Golden.

Cali, I totally understand your feelings. It must be very hard having your partner away,and to top it off, trying to conceive,which is stressful at the best of times, it would be doubly stressful with an absent partner, trying to get timing right and also having the bonus of being over 40. However, I think you'll get there eventually.

Golden, I know you don't want to pop all your eggs (pardon the pun) in this one basket - the first month on clomid, but I know I would be feeling hopeful myself,and the prospect of getting a bfn would having me bricking it. How many DPO are you now? Like Deige, if I was anywhere past 9 dpo,I would have tested by now. As for the thing about a bfp after 11 dpo, I've heard of many women getting late bfp's and they delivered healthy babies. And with my miscarriages I had bfp's at 9 and 10 dpo. If implantation doesn't happen til 9 or 10 dpo it is unlikely you'll get a bfp til 2 days later. I've got everything crossed for you.It would be so lovely if you get your bfp this time.

Right now I am back at the "feeling philosophical" stage. It's post AF, my hormones seem even,and I realise that getting pregnant at this ripe old age is highly unlikely,so I think,it would be nice, it is possible, and why not me? But if it doesn't happen, life will go on, I have a beautiful family and I'll be alright. It's the 2ww and the pre AF days that has my attitude do a 360 degree turn and makes me crazy and sad. If only we could do this thing without the rollercoaster of hormones and emotions.

Wow, time flies when I am on mumsnet,and it is that time of the day when I have to rush around getting myself and everyone ready for school/work...would rather have one of thesebrew

10000Fireflies Wed 31-Oct-12 23:28:30

I can't keep up with you gorgeous lot (saw some of your pics from the other day). You are faaaaaaar to chatty for me to keep up with! Gum I saw your msg re supps. Will post the link tomorrow if I can. Remind me if I don't. Brain like a sieve these days. Just off to bed, before baby FF wakes up properly. Big rain/thunderstom on t he way apparently. Hope to sleep through it.

Love to all. FF xx

goldengirl71 Wed 31-Oct-12 23:37:41

Gum & Diege, thanks for your input re late BFPs.

Remnant, you sound more buoyant - well done for asking for help.

Calibee, I believe these early stages of estrangement from your OH will bring all kinds of mixed emotions. I wouldn't be surprised if you felt lonely, abandoned, paranoid, resentful and even a little pissed off. However...are you loved by him? Of course you are. But if you feel any of his behaviour is insensitive, tell him. He needs to understand your vulnerability at this time. You don't have to consider yourself a WAG. Lots of women have partners who work far away from the family for long periods at a time. It's early days. Give yourself a break x

Gum, I have had a bad day today (8DPO). I am utterly convinced I am not pregnant. DP is so shattered from running his marathon on Sunday that, ever since, he has come home from work, shovelled food down his gob and gone to bed. His job is terrifically tiring at the best of times so I do not resent his fatigue and early nights. However, before he retired tonight I told him that I am going to need his help 'at the weekend and beyond' when I get a BFN and then AF. He looked a bit like this: hmm so I explained that, despite my insistence that this first cycle of Clomid would find me remaining realistic and cool I am, in fact, (to quote you, Gum) bricking it.

I cannot stand to hear other people's symptom spotting (such a waste of time when it's probably just wind) but I have not been able to keep my eyes open all day. I have napped and napped and napped. But I do not have tingly, achy, heavy, sore, swollen, tender breasts. I do not have twinges/cramping/bloating/fucking anything which might signal a pregnancy. I am afraid of the next few days. How pathetic is that? Thank goodness I am staying at my darling mother's at the weekend.

goldengirl71 Wed 31-Oct-12 23:47:20

FF, we crossed posts [waves] Are you going to start ttc at Christmas? I wonder, also, if you would be prepared to share your ttc story. I don't think I've heard it...didn't you mention IVF t'other day? I'm sorry for the prolific posting, I'm a dreadful chatterbox.

goldengirl71 Wed 31-Oct-12 23:51:00

Do forgive, one more quickie: prior to implantation is it even physiologically possible to have pregnancy symptoms? Surely not (please say no...please say no...please say no.)

CaliBee Thu 01-Nov-12 07:37:55

Morning all....I have woken up in a much better mood this morning. And yes golden you lovely lady you...I can say hand on heart he does love me. Managed to have a longer convo last night (15 mins whoop lol). He was explaining that some 40 other recruits were sent for a haircut after dinner last night. He didnt need one but apparently they are not allowed to be on their own, they have to stay together. I feel for him right now. I know he is only 23 (believe me if he acted like a regular 23 year old we WOULD NOT be together) but he has a very wise head on his shoulders and this lack of freedom must be torturous.
Before implantation there wouldn't be any pregnancy symptoms (despite us convincing ourselves)....just the possible reactions to the progesterone from the corpus.
My boss resigned yesterday....I was initially pleased as I thought it would mean a possible reshuffle and chance to improve and promote myself (I'm a bitch I know, but her management skills were pants). Alas the heads of department (who never actually work in the department) have aportioned the work to those already overworked and decided to employ another Pharmacist (despite a lengthy battle to recruit to the post we already have available) therefore completely overlooking development for us poor technicians. I'm not a happy girl but have decided (completely out of character for me)to keep my gob well shut and see how it pans out!!!
Have a great day ladies x

Diege Thu 01-Nov-12 13:56:19

calibee I think in life in general keeping your gob shut and seeing how things pan out is probably the best way to get through situations like that- not that I have ever managed it! Sounds like a mad decision by the 'higher uppers' though hmm. Glad you're feeling more positive today xx
Golden I would second that there will be no symptoms before implanation as no hcg 'in the system' as such. Then I think it's 3 days after implantation that hcg might show on preg test. Are you still temping, or does clomid give a false reading? <no reason to think it might btw>
Well have ewm here, lots of it, which isn't typical for me, and as dh has begged asked nicely to do the deed tonight who am I to say no...might even do an opk this afternoon - knowledge is power and all that.
Hope everyone is ok xxx
Hello to gum and fireflies xxx

TinaO99 Thu 01-Nov-12 14:40:48

Golden I'll just echo what Calibee has said about symptoms - even if you are pregnant you might not have symptoms, I'm only just starting with a few symptoms now and the ones I expected (sore boobs and puking) are noticeable absent!

By the way hope you will all wish me luck as it's my first scan tomorrow at Care, I'm excited but also a bit apprehensive! If I get any pictures I'll post them on my profile although it'll probably just be a dark blob at this stage!

goldengirl71 Thu 01-Nov-12 15:29:27

Yes, Diege, I'm still temping and seeing lofty temperatures which haven't been in evidence since my pregnancy chart in January. We all know that that can mean shit, right? I was going to be really brave and sensible and NOT take a pregnancy testing stick in my luggage for my weekend stay with mum. However, my mantra is 'knowledge is power', right? So..in order to take control of my emotions earlier I think the right thing to do is to test. I shall use a crappy One Step internet cheapie on Saturday (11DPO) and if that is negative I shall use my remaining First Response stick on Sunday. If that is negative, well....there is no false hope to be had, is there? [fucking dreading Sunday emoticon]

I am feeling horribly irritable all of a sudden. I reduced my antidepressants from 10-5mg (I started off on 40mg) the other day and I think this is to blame. I haven't had sex for NINE DAYS because DP is so wrecked from that bastard marathon (he rang me today to tell me he was stuck in a ditch and a farmer was trying to haul his van out. He said he was 'rushing' and slipped off a path. This is all because his body and mind are exhausted and it is entirely his fault for running a fucking marathon having not trained for fucking weeks and weeks. I have no sympathy). I have also just returned from the dentist (4 mile round trip on foot) where I waited half an hour to be told I needn't have bothered as my lost crown is not problematic. Upon my return I was assaulted by a wave (nay, a tsunami) of ammonia. Cat piss. I'm sure this fecking kitten has a bladder infection, he pisses like a race horse.

Furthermore I have just shrieked at my poor mum for suggesting that I am not a very good girlfriend for the way I iron DP's shirts (because he wears a sweater over the top I only iron the collar and cuffs. What's wrong with that?) My mum also thinks it's 'not on' that DP makes his own sandwiches and that I don't rise at the same time as him to 'see him off to work'. Why the hell would I do that? That would mean rattling around this labyrinthine shit-hole of a house for an extra three hours a day. Harrumph!!

goldengirl71 Thu 01-Nov-12 15:30:23

Oh, Tina, masses of luck for tomorrow! xx

hippychick66 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:16:39

Very quick post - sorry i haven't made any effort to read or keep up with you all but OMG Calibee - I've just looked at your photo. I am sooo jealous that you get to TTC with such a hunky young man whilst I had to make do with my old man wink seriously, my love - he looks simply scrummy :-) (and you look pretty damn good too!)

CaliBee Thu 01-Nov-12 18:21:00

Awww I'm blushing. Thankyou hippy. He is pretty special....I have no idea what I did to deserve him. I did try back in the very early days of our relationship to push him away to find some young sexy thing who would give him babies, but he was having none of it. I'm so glad he didnt let me push him away...even though this army stuff is tough. I'm looking forward to seeing him in uniform though wink wink.
Tina lots of luck for tomorrow....will look forward to seeing the pictures.
Hey Golden you are doing so well with your medication reduction....just go at your own pace. Its not worth wasting the good they have done by trying to cut them down too quickly. If they are what I think they may be, they are safe to give during pregnancy ;)
Diege oh my....sounds like you will be enjoying this evening...I'm so jealous lol. Have fun xx

lotsofcheese Thu 01-Nov-12 20:51:29

Just a quick hello to all & a wee update before I head to bed (and not for anything exciting; I'm simply bloody exhausted!)

I booked in with the midwife today at approx 11.5 weeks. Felt very surreal & strange - can't quite describe it.....next hurdle is a week today for the 12 week scan & dreaded neuchal translucency. Realise it's automatically going to come back high risk due to age & then will have decisions re: cvs/amnio to make. Just feels like a whole series of hurdles..

Tina good luck to you for tomorrow - will be thinking of you & hoping the scan goes well..

theeyeofthetiger Thu 01-Nov-12 21:14:21

Evening everyone!
I've been away for a few days but have been trying to catch up with everyone's stories (good and not so good) on my phone. That in itself is a big technological leap forward for me; now I just have to work out how to use it to post on here...

I got my AF yesterday. After such a long cycle last month, I convinced myself throughout yesterday that it was actually implantation spotting. When I saw it there, I just couldn't abandon all hope entirely. Today, I'm facing this month's reality. Ho hum.
I need cheering up. Chocolate of some sort calls...

CaliBee Thu 01-Nov-12 21:45:19

Hugs to Tiger....its a horrid feeling but also a time to relax and forget for a few days before preparing to be positive for next cycle.
cheese I can only begin to imagine how you must be feeling. Fingers crossed for you x

hopefulgum Thu 01-Nov-12 22:50:02

Tina - good luck for tomorrow-don't forget the snug helicopter is available so we can all come and hold your hand. Same goes for you cheese - we'll tag along in chopper.

I have a good feeling for both of you, but I also know how hard those scans are.

Cheese, I know what you mean about all the hurdles. I worry a lot about the scans and what it all means.But,it is just another hurdle that brings you closer to meeting your baby.How wonderfulsmile

Tiger - sorry about AF.It's shit when you are ttc. Break out the chocolate and start thinking positive thoughts for the next chance to ttc.

Deige - can you believe you are actually here again, ttc? So exciting...

Golden, will you be able to post on here on the weekend? I want to know what those pee-sticks say! And as for your mum giving you a hard time about your OH - seriously, what is is,8 years old?He can make his own lunch and iron his shirts for Pete's sake. Tell your mum it's now the 21st century and men can actually learn to drive an iron.It's miraculous, I know, but it really can happengrin

Diege Fri 02-Nov-12 07:15:53

Good luck for today Tina! I'm sure all will be fine and come back and tell us the good news as soon as you can xx
Back later - have to rush now getting everyone up/dressed x

Diege Fri 02-Nov-12 10:09:11

Hello again. Well to update, ewcm all but disappeared, opk resolutely negative (not even a hint of a line), and temps today still low...so dh got a freebie there hmm. Am having a wtf cycle I think. Having only just started temping again after losing thermometer so I'm not really sure where I'm up to. Thought it might be liberating but it's not!
Hi Gum, yes very strange actually to be <whispers> ttc-ing after peeking through the window for so long (ok, a few mths). I feel strangely detatched from it all at the moment, but am sure that will change when I know where I am with my cycle.
Golden, I agree that knowledge is power with testing to the extent that a bfn has the gradual effect of letting you down gently-ish. I compare waiting for af/getting bfns to removing a plaster. Is it better to take it off slowly (test) or rip it off in one go (wait for The Blood). Personally I find the gradual letting go of hope better. But of course that is not going to hapen to you!!! Very high temsp are such a good sign x
Hippy, meant to say you are so missed on the thread! I will have to get fb-ing and stalk you that way grin
Will be back later to get your fri night bistro orders x

goldengirl71 Fri 02-Nov-12 11:32:39

So I pissed on a stick (at 10DPO). Instead of a line there was this message: 'Listen, twat, not only are you not pregnant this month, you will never EVER be pregnant again' sad

Diege Fri 02-Nov-12 12:32:58

Oh Golden sad So you used a digital? Now there are reports that these are less sensitive than the non-digi types, but I can well understand how you're feeling. 10 dpo is still very early, but am not going to patronise you with stuff about time of implantation etc etc (though there is some leeway in that). Horribly disappointing, but will you test again tomorrow?

littlepinkfizz Fri 02-Nov-12 13:17:11

Don't despair golden It is def a bit early and did your dr not tell you to wait until cd 30 to 35? Maybe I'm mistaken.ive never had a BFP that early...
< hugs >

TinaO99 Fri 02-Nov-12 15:12:07

OMG everyone, just got to tell you I'm having twins!!! Still in a state of shock here, I was never expecting this, not sure why seeing as how I had two embryos but I never expected them both to stick! Saw two little heartbeats and even some tiny arms! Got some piccies too so will post those later when I've worked out how to scan them on our printer!

golden don't give up yet it may still be too early!! And it doesn't mean you'll never be pregnant, youre still young girl and it will happen for you I feel it in my water :-)

goldengirl71 Fri 02-Nov-12 15:16:05

TINA!!! FANTASTICO!! Oh, what a thrill! I totally overlooked the fact that two embryos were transferred and we are so programmed on this thread to merely hope for the smallest miracle...but you got TWO!! Well done, missus! grin envy thanks

CaliBee Fri 02-Nov-12 15:16:59

Oh my good god Tina what a star. So very very poleased for you xxxx

CaliBee Fri 02-Nov-12 15:17:53

Pleased even. blush

goldengirl71 Fri 02-Nov-12 15:22:22

Thanks, ladies for your commiserations. No, Diege, I used the One Step internet cheapies. Also, I pissed in a cup at 8am and was too tired and pessimistic to unwrap and dip the stick so I went back to bed and only tested from that same urine two hours later. What do we think of that? I do feel it is still very early (fertility friend tells me that only a third of pregnancies are detected by 10DPO) and my temp this morning was the third highest so far, but...but...you know.

I am over the fu*king moon, however, for Tina. That really has made my day. See? Monumentally brilliant things can and do happen on this thread grin

goldengirl71 Fri 02-Nov-12 15:27:38

Pink, CD30-35? Is that what to expect for women on Clomid, do you mean? Can you elaborate? Thanks.

woollywomble Fri 02-Nov-12 15:47:30

Tina - that's fantastic - what lovely news!! Wonder if they'll be boy/girl or same sex. thanks
GG - don't give up yet, you weren't going to test until the weekend, it's still early. If FF says only a third are detected by 10DPO, then for the majority of people it would be too early to test.
Calibee - I second the comments re your photos - you will make lovely babies wink - my DH is twice his age, it's not fair!!

I'm probably one of the only ones here who is wishing AF to come so that I can start ttc asap and get back to normal post mc. I still feel in limbo at the moment. The other (non?) issue I have is that if I did go on to conceive end of Nov then I would be due just when my eldest DD is due to sit her 11+ exams in Sep and I can't decide whether it would be selfish of me to inflict that on her and should wait ttc until after Christmas. On the other hand I will be 42 in Feb and it's coming too quickly!!!

littlepinkfizz Fri 02-Nov-12 16:31:41

golden , no , I know nothing about Clomid.. I was remembering your post from when you came bbsck from the dr. I thought that was what the dr had told you, sorry, my mistake ..

littlepinkfizz Fri 02-Nov-12 16:32:38

Massive double congratulations tina ! grin

lotsofcheese Fri 02-Nov-12 17:33:32

Wow Tina what wonderful news!!!! I had a wee feeling it might be twins..... You take it easy (while you can!) When is your next scan? If it's not until 12 weeks, I would highly recommend a private one at 10ish weeks, for peace of mind.

golden it's early days yet re:testing - hope your weekend away takes your mind off things a bit. Ps can't believe what your mother was saying about ironing your DH's shirts!! I don't iron. Full stop. DP is a big boy & does his own.

Thanks to everyone for kind words over the last few days. I now have maternity notes lying out on the kitchen surface & am looking at them with suspicion. Can't really describe how I feel, other than that it seems surreal....

CaliBee Fri 02-Nov-12 19:38:33

womble.....thankyou. I only hope I get to see what our little creation would look like. He would make such a lovely Daddy x

Irishmammybread Fri 02-Nov-12 21:02:03

Tina that's great news,how exciting!
Golden ,sorry about your BFN ,but it is early yet.
AF arrived for me yesterday,after my body tricked me by soaring in temperature the day before when of course I poas and got a BFN. Then having followed then conversation about increased likelihood of MC following late implantation I began to panic that if I was pregnant and had a BFN on d13 it was doomed anyway,so I was almost relieved in a strange way when temp dropped yesterday and then AF arrived shortly after. My temp today was the lowest I've ever registered, I needed to check my pulse to make sure I was actually still in the land of the living!
So I'm feeling a bit rubbish. I know it was unrealistic to think I would get pregnant again but my first 4 pregnancies were unplanned and the only times we've actually tried,planned and timed dtd I got pregnant almost straight away (though that led to MC 2 and 3 )so I couldn't help hoping. I sometimes
feel that it's probably never going to happen for me again. However I don't feel like I can give up either. I just hope I can regain some of the peace of mind I had before my losses,I don't think I'll ever feel the same again and this yearning for a baby is so overwhelming.
Sorry, I didn't mean to start wallowing in self pity.
I've got a busy weekend ahead, my DB is over from Ireland, he's running the "Survival of the fittest" race tomorrow with DS who's come home from Uni(with all his dirty laundry!) . I'm working tomorrow and DD2 has a dance exam coming up so there's plenty to do and we'll have some good food,good conversation and just enjoy being together too.
Life goes on and you have to make the most of it!

Diege Fri 02-Nov-12 21:15:11

Wow Tina what amazing news! I am so pleased for you thanks!
Irish sorry for af but it does sound like you have the right mental attitude and there's absolutely no reason in the world to think it won't be your turn again soon. Very cruel temps though!
I am ordering in homemade fish pie for the bistro, follwed by tarte au citroen <mouth waters> In reality it's left over cauliflower cheese and half a packet of chco digestives...
Oh and have just completed job application - deadline is mid-night tonight so done in good time as always grin. Had a heart-stopping moment when my application form couldn't be up-loaded for some bizarre reason, so blindly pressed buttons and it seems to have gone through ok...feel like I've gone through some bizarre trial and now need a start date! Half hope I don't get an interview as academic jobs are a real pain with the prep/presentation you have to go through.
Have been thinking about Italian today; if you are lurking how are you getting on with the adoption process?
Golden hope you;'re ok - will you be testing again tomorrow? <stupid question> wink
Love to all xxx

goldengirl71 Fri 02-Nov-12 21:25:59

Irish, you really sound to me like someone who would honestly rather not be going through this tedious journey to try to conceive. It's obvious that the most compelling urge you have is to find the 'normality of mind' you had before those life-changing miscarriages. But, look...do they have to have altered your state of mind forever? Are you maybe enabling these feelings to continue by actively trying for another baby? What I mean to say is that often I do believe that the ritual of being on ttc threads, and OPKing, and charting and temping, and analysing the minutiae of our cycles (again, mumsnet threads be damned!) and shagging with intention and all the other tortuous tedium we are staging our behaviour around - I think it fuels this 'need', this 'yearning' to prove our bodies wrong. I feel you, in particular, Irish, would be in a much better place without all this going on in your life. It's just a feeling I always have about you when you post. Forgive me if I've managed to invalidate or underestimate your feelings...I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. It's just that, I can't help feeling that it is less about having a baby now for you and more about getting back to the pre-miscarriage you. I do hope you find peace, lovey, and I'm sorry that high temperature tormented you. Much love x

goldengirl71 Fri 02-Nov-12 21:32:22

Diege, we crossed posts. I hope you get that job - you're going to need that extra £10k a year, right? Nappies are so expensive, I believe wink

Erm, will I be testing again tomorrow? Oh, go on then - if you insist!

Please don't all get excited and hopeful but I shan't be ordering from the bistro due to my extreme nausea. I am also too tired even to read what's on the specials board.

littlepinkfizz Fri 02-Nov-12 21:59:48

Sorry golden but v excited for you... Passes airplane sick bag and ginger nut biscuits ...x

hopefulgum Fri 02-Nov-12 23:36:02

Tina, I just knew you would have good news for us! WooHoo! Twins. I am so bleedin excited for you.gringringrin

Well, golden, I know what you'd say to me if I tested at 10 dpo and got a bfn...it's way early and there's plenty of time to get a bfp.Nausea and fatigue? You know what I am thinkinggrin

Irish, I know exactly how you feel. After my second miscarriage I was absolutely devastated. I felt for sure it couldn't happen to me a second time. I had a scan that said all was well at 8 weeks. Then at 9 weeks, the spotting started and I had a horrible feeling of dejavu. It was so heart-breaking because I really believed that I would have a baby that time. I also understand what you say about gaining peace of mind that you had before the losses. Losing a baby can affect women differently, but for me,it shook me to my very core, I felt that I couldn't trust anything anymore.Nothing was safe,and the yearning for a baby becomes so overwhelming. I felt that nothing could help me feel better except the balm of a baby.

Time does make a difference and it is still so raw for you. It has been 15 months since my second loss and I still feel sad from time to time, but I do feel much better than I did,and the feeling of desperation has lessened somewhat. I still yearn for a baby, and I still want to prove everyone wrong and have a healthy baby at 46. I hope you have a lovely time with your family, and please hang on, there's every reason that you can conceive again. Why shouldn't you? And why shouldn't I? I don't care what the stats say, we can be the exception.((hugs))

Deige, you're all probably asleep by now, so I think I missed the bistro. How about a big juicy steak with a fabulous crunchy green salad with wasabi dressing, a procuitto and mango and pine nut salad all followed by pavlova and chocolate cake covered in malteesas? Actually - that is what we had for dinner at our friend's place last nightgrinMy friend made a salad with this fabulous dressing made from wasabi,olive oil and lemon juice (a Nigella recipe), was very very good. I didn't eat the desserts, but they looked pretty yummy.

Right, best get going - farmer's market and taking 12 year old girls to the thrift shop for party costumes. Also meeting my sister for coffee. She has lost her driver's license which is making life a bit difficult (so maybe she shouldn't have been such a reckless driverhmm

Irishmammybread Fri 02-Nov-12 23:36:18

Thanks for the words of encouragement Diege. Good luck with your job application, how soon will you know?

Golden I don't know how I've come across in my posts but my personal feeling is that the reason I'm ttc is simply that I want to have a baby.

goldengirl71 Sat 03-Nov-12 00:07:07

Irish, after your curt(ish) response I re-read my post and I sound like a patronising dick. I don't know how it feels to have had three miscarriages and so I should just have kept my gob shut. I hope you'll forgive me for saying this, though; that when I am 44 - and if I have suffered three miscarriages in a row - I would hope someone would talk to me in terms of addressing that need to keep trying and trying and trying. I guess I am attempting to put myself in your shoes in three years' time and I'm not doing a very good job of it. I am sorry.

wylie05 Sat 03-Nov-12 07:03:35

Still lurking...managed to miss the famous bistro again!!

just wanted to say great news Tina!! Really pleased for you!

I had hopes this month as had horrendous heart burn but AF landed this morning. Decided to keep trying until the end of the year then maybe move on....

Golden, Irish and everyone else - thinking of you. Take care of yourselves. Have a good weekend.

hopefulgum Sat 03-Nov-12 07:05:57

golden, the way you feel right now, at 41, after one miscarriage, hoping for a baby, that's how you'd feel at 44 or in my case, 46, after three miscarriages: you really want to have a baby, don't you?

Why would irish feel any differently? What on earth do you mean by addressing the need to keep trying and trying? Can you honestly say that you have a time limit? That after x number of years and x number of miscarriages you would have the good sense to just stop ttc?

None of this ttc caper is simple, and it is not just a matter of realizing that the odds are against us so we might as well give up. I am sure many,many readers of this thread must think I am certifiable to continue my "quest" for a sixth child at my age, but I don't care, ultimately the reason we are on this thread is to support one another while we are going through the torrid time that is trying to conceive a baby with the odds and often the medical profession against us.

wylie05 Sat 03-Nov-12 07:40:13

I agree - the feeling of wanting a baby is no different no matter what age you are. I keep hearing stories of people who had babies 46, 47 etc and there is always a chance.

Diege Sat 03-Nov-12 07:54:20

Morning! Late bistro requests are being processed but I'm afraid a cold trolley service might have to suffice. Can't beleive you didn't eat that malteser cake Gum!
I have to admit to being a bit shock by your post to Irish Golden hmm I think I'd be a bit hurt if that post had been directed to me. As Irish says, she is ttc-ing to have a baby, not because she is addicted to the rituals of ttc-ing and have others have said no-one can question someone else's desires to carry on ttc-ing, especially not when they are on a ttc thread... I sure you meant no harm, but good to see your apology.
Gum your day with the dds sounds great - I am assuming thrift shops = charity shops in the uk? We have lots of fun scouring them here, esp for costumes etc. Also out here for the day with dd3, to cinema, pizza hut, swimming. I try and give them individual 'treat days' as I'm always conscious that I potentially could be not giving enough ind' attention. Older dds have BLackpool 'Pleasure' Beach next weekend...
Hi wylie sorry about af xx

Netguru Sat 03-Nov-12 08:11:28

Still lurking.

Fantastic news Tina

Got call from gp asking us to go in. Figured husband's spern test had come up with a problem but no, all tests are ok, mine and his.

So I ovulated last month. But not this month according to my clear blue monitor. SiL due in November which will hurt a bit I think. Don't see them that much though.

DH came out with a great line last week. We'd had a tiny tiff, nothing much but on day 14. When we went to bed he turned to me and said I know it's an important day so if you want to DTD I promise I won't enjoy myself! Bless smile

CaliBee Sat 03-Nov-12 08:29:27

Raaaa this ttcing is a frustrating business. Its funny how this week of no charting, testing ....sex....anything...not even taken my wellwoman conception tablets (rebel), has been kind of liberating. I know its not too far from my mind though. A friend...albeit much younger than us ladies, posted about her 2nd accidental pregnancy in a year yesterday. I confess to my finger dithering over the DELETE button. My childishness never ceases to amaze me.
Anyway..I'm off to get my nails "gellished" and choose an outfit for tonights night out with the girls. I may even partake in a glass of wine ....or two.
lots of love to all my ttc mateys....xxx

TinaO99 Sat 03-Nov-12 09:02:04

thanks everyone for your kind words! I've posted a few pictures but they've come out really small, not sure if you'll be able to see anything - I've put one on of each twin and one of both of them, although the double one looks a bit strange as one of the twins was standing on its head!

calibee I've deleted a few people on facebook that have become pregnant so don't worry, sounds mean but at the time I really didn't want to hear them gushing about their pregnancies, hope no one does the same to me now lol - I have only told a few people so far as I am going to wait until 3 months have passed just in case! Not sure what my mum will say, we aren't close at all and I only tend to see her at xmas and mothers day, she never calls me, has never visited me in the five years I've been in this house - it would have been nice to have the support especially with two but never mind what you've never had you don't miss!

I dont think my dh's parents will be too chuffed either, they live in France anyway so won't be around - when we told them we were trying for a baby they asked me if my dh had talked me into it!

*golden are you testing again this weekend? Sounds from what you said that your wee might not have been concentrated enough to pick anything up so theres still hope! Crossing everything for you

hippychick66 Sat 03-Nov-12 10:13:43

I'm on my phone so can't do one of Italian's pretty flowery posts - but - CONGRATS TO TINA. AMAZING NEWS! thanks

goldengirl71 Sat 03-Nov-12 10:18:51

I cannot agree that we mustn't address giving up ttc on a ttc thread. Maybe I am not the one who should speak, what with 'only' being 41, but at mid-forties - and having suffered recurrent miscarriages - there needs to be the freedom to say that maybe nature is telling us something. How many miscarriages are we willing to see women go through on here without at least suggesting enough is enough? At what age on here do we start to help women address giving up ttc? Or do we wave our pom-poms supportively when AF arrives for the 49 year-old and she is,yet again, dismayed? I don't see what the furore is about in bringing this up. However, I am not prepared to hang around annoying or hurting ladies on this thread and so, for my own sanity (and yours!) I'm going to take a wee break. Not for long..just to get my head together. Everyone is wonderful on here but I think I need to just go away and shut up. Diege, I keep saying 'knowledge is power', but there is no knowledge to be gained from a negative test at 10/11DPO. I will never test this early again. BFN again today but a hike in temp. It's all bullshit.

See you all soon xx

JBrd Sat 03-Nov-12 10:58:57

Hi all, been quiet for a while again, so much seems to be happening! Every time I log on it takes me so long to read all the updates, that by the time I get to the most recent one, I'm too tired and overwhelmed (read lazy) to post anything grin
We're in Switzerland at the moment, visiting my mum for a long weekend, so that she can catch up with being a grannie - she doesn't get to see DS nearly as often as she would like to. Cue him developing his first bout of separation anxiety, he won't give her the time of day at the moment, what a shame!

Tina - excellent news about the twinnies, that is sooo brilliant! But I imagine that must have been a shock when you found out! Very envy here, I have secretly always wanted twins (but having DS has cured me of that - I think).

Golden - I can only second what the others have said - give yourself time! You've only started on Clomid, plus had the tooth infection, so your body might need a bit of time to adjust... Easier said than done, I know! Time is not what we have in great abundance, I give you that. But you sounds as if you need to relax big time, if you don't mind me saying that. Treat yourself to a massage of something!

Nothing much new at my end, gearing up for ovulation next week... Going to try and spread out dtd a bit more this time, I think, as not to get so exhausted and to avoid another uti. I feel a bit more relaxed at the moment, which I'm hoping is a good thing. I realised how much I needed a break, and even though visiting my mum is far from a holiday (she drives me crazy), it's good to get a change of scenery. My last holiday was in June, ffs! Had words with DH about that, he needs to stop being so work-obsessed. We used to love travelling, and even though it's a bit more difficult now that DS is here, I don't see why we can't go away somewhere nice once in a while.

Oh, and against my better knowledge (and advice from here), I did do a home fertility test... Everything looks fine. Now I'm trying to think about how to get DH doing one... Bit worried he will feel insulted if I suggest it, but I'd much rather know! He's not getting any younger, doesn't excercise at the moment (but still manages to be fitter than me going to the gym 3 times a week, b****rd) and drinks far too much alcohol. Plus, it took us 8 months last time. So how do I go about suggesting he tests without affronting his manhood? He's usually fine with these things, but you never know...

goldengirl71 Sat 03-Nov-12 11:36:34

Oh, shit. Mum has just made things very clear to me: I have no business suggesting giving up ttc on this thread. You are right, Gum & Diege. I don't know where my head is. I hope Irish can forgive me.

Netguru Sat 03-Nov-12 16:37:55

Golden. I disn't agree with your post but I really didn't see you as wrong to post it if you see what I mean. I often, like every day often, question my motivation. Whether, as I have children, I want a baby now to prove I can.

I don't think that is true. But asking the question of ourselves, no matter what the answer is, has to be valid.

If I were Irish, I would have read your post with a bit of a jolt. But on reflection I would be ok with it. Not speaking for Irish at all. She may see it differently but perhaps the post could be treated as a general point rather than a personal one.

somewherebecomingrain Sat 03-Nov-12 17:58:12

I am mystified by diege and hopeful cause I so loathe Pg and can't wait to know I never have to do it again. And there is no doubt those on the most painful journey here are those trying to conceive their first. If it was me I'd be even more mystified. But some women do enjoy pg and are made for childbearing and Irish and diege and hopeful seem like those incredible women. Golden there's plenty of stuff you bring up that invites a frank challenge. This thread is amazing for the unquestioning support we give each other. In fact I often suspect diege is a sociologist studying it cause it is so remarkable. But there are these really fascinating tensions. Maybe it makes it more real and even more remarkable to have an element of challenge. If we can come thru as friends. What I like about u golden is you are so deeply honest and morally thoughtful even if you do shock us from time to time.

theeyeofthetiger Sat 03-Nov-12 18:44:01

Evening all!
Such a lot goes on between one of my posts and the next! It's great to see so much discussion and support. It seems as though the last 24 hours, or thereabouts, have taken their toll on lots of us. For my part, this ttc shenanigans seems to bring out the best and the worst in me! Never have I been more aware of my body or looked after myself as much, or wanted to be part of something and united in a cause. Conversely, never have I been so obsessive, navel gazing and pitiful when I don't get what I want!

Anyway, sorry I'm late Tina, but I wanted to add my excitement and congratulations! Your posts have cheered me up!

Diege Sat 03-Nov-12 21:20:52

Evening smile. Back from cinema/pizza hut/toy-shop hell, totally fleeced, but dd3 had a ball grin.
somewhere, I agree this is a remarkable thread, and it is good that we can all be so frank yet at the same time provide such great support. I truly wish I was able to get a research bid to study our on-line chat grin though not sure I can fit it in my lit' review for Help the Aged. Actually, maybe I can wink

golden hope the weekend away gives you a bit of space. I truly believe you will be successful in your quest, if not this month then certainly over the next few. Does the success rate with clomid increase with the amount of time it's taken? On the note of your frankness, I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with opening up the debate on stopping ttc-ing, indeed we had that many moons ago on here. The difference being that it was initiated by the posters which I suppose it makes the tone/inference slightly different on a ttc-thread? Anyway, really hope you're doing ok and feel better for a bit of head space x
Ho netguru, tiger, good to hear from you smile

hopefulgum Sat 03-Nov-12 22:55:21

Deige, I laughed out loud when you said maybe this could be a study for helping the aged!grin

I agree about frank discussion and I think supporting one another is what is so fabulous about this thread. And, yes, as somewhere said, we are all different.I wouldn't say I "love" being pregnant, but I do love the end result,and ultimately, that's why we are all here.

I admit that I want to prove something too- I want to prove the naysayers and pessimists wrong.But it isn't because I want to get one over them, it is because I want a baby.

I suppose at my age it is important to be realistic. And I think I am, but it doesn't mean I will give up, and I will remain positive and believe there is a chance, because that keeps me sane.

When I had coffee with my sister yesterday we talked about clomid. She thinks I should give it a go, but I still feel reluctant. I have an appointment with my doctor this week for a pap smear (hurray hmm) and I will see what she thinks and also ask for a progesterone script. I have read so many times that as we age our hormones are not high enough or steady enough and it can cause miscarriage. I know all about old eggs and chromosomal issues, but my second miscarriage (although they botched the tests) eventually found that my little boy did not have the major trisomies (13,18 or 21), so there is a chance that my hormones dropped too early. I don't see the harm in supporting a pregnancy with progesterone, because it won't stop a miscarriage if it is going to happen anyway.I wish we could take it in pill form.The suppositories sound ghastly and messy. I bet if it was a drug for men they would find a more convenient way to give it.

I'm sure I told you the story of a colleague's wife (who has just had baby 14 at the age of 44) who had two miscarriages in her 40's, then the doctor suggested progesterone and she has had a baby at 43 and 44. Her hubby said they are going to try again for another daughter (as they have ten sons).

Fireflies, did you have that list of supplements handy?

hopefulgum Sat 03-Nov-12 23:20:46

Just did some more research on clomid and it seems my instincts are right. I won't be trying it. Let me know if you want to read about it, I'll pm you the link.I don't want to be "debbie downer" and put the link on this thread.

Irishmammybread Sat 03-Nov-12 23:47:07

hopeful I would be interested in reading more about clomid if you don't mind passing on the link. I don't think you're certifiable for wanting another baby to add to your brood(but who am I to talk,maybe we should both be certified!) We are all different as somewhere pointed out, and the pain of ttc when you don't have children must be difficult too,but I know for me having kids already doesn't stop my heart longing for a baby. It may seem irrational for me to keep going but like you I feel I need that hope.
Your colleague's wife is an inspiration by the way!
Golden of course I forgive you,I don't think for a moment you meant to be hurtful though I won't lie and say that I didn't find your posts about me hard to read. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and straight talking can be a good thing!
Sounds like you had a good day out Diege ,I think kids do really appreciate some one to one time and you certainly packed a lot into a day.
Hope you've had fun on your night out CaliBee!
Sorry AF arrived wylie.
tina has the news of twins actually sunk in yet? Very exciting!
Hi to tiger and Netguru.
Hope everyone else is having a good weekend.

hopefulgum Sun 04-Nov-12 00:40:18

irish, I have sent the link to your inbox.

Irishmammybread Sun 04-Nov-12 07:45:18

Thanks hopeful !

AngelGeorgie Sun 04-Nov-12 08:26:57

Tina huge congrats xxx

CaliBee Sun 04-Nov-12 08:48:54

Can you post it to me please hopeful . I'm armed and ready with my prescription to start in the next few days so I doubt it will change my mind but I'm sure it will make intersting reading.
I have found that with everything I google that I can find an article for and against....to the point where even the "experts" have differing opinions.

Diege Sun 04-Nov-12 10:05:07

Morning smile Hope everyone is ok and enjoying the weekend. Dd3's party this afternoon, which will be a minor ordeal (playbarn) but again worth taking a deep breath and just getting through it...
You know this lit review I'm doing for HTA is on housing, but I am now never going to be able to think about it in the same way...I'll end up recommending swanky new appartments with stocks of opks in the bathroom and folic-acid fortified bread. And of course a Friday night meals-on-wheels bistro grin
Cd2 here - have had a wtf cycle and obviously the ewm of the other day was the type you sometimes get pre-af. Pleased actually as I know where I am now!

goldengirl71 Sun 04-Nov-12 10:40:54

Gum, I have read your article and am appalled at the scaremongering tactics of these IVF 'experts' who clearly would prefer us to be spending thousands of pounds at their clinics rather than trying Clomid. Thank you for your concern and I would not discourage anyone considering this drug to remain ignorant regarding its side effects. However, I trust my GP and I trust my consultant. I do not trust the unethical pseudo-science pumped out by IVF websites.

CaliBee Sun 04-Nov-12 19:23:56

At the end of the day...for those who do not have thousands of pounds to spend, then I'm still with the Clomid. I think all those consultants who prescribe it to ladies >40 who have tests showing poor ovarian reserve, would be quaking in their boots during the current "lets sue them " culture if they had any real worries about what the article shows. At the end of the day I could take Clomid for three months....find out that it had ruined any further chances of conception and have a wickedly good case against the precribing Dr...would I not?!!
I would love to get OH's sperm frozen and be able to have IUI for a raised chance of pregnancy (especially now he is away). But...the chance is still low. I have no idea how much this would cost but I'm guessing into the thousands.....I'm sure they would even charge me a few hundred to sit in front of them and have them tell me how much exactly what it would cost.

goldengirl71 Sun 04-Nov-12 20:12:44

This is the response of a lady on the Clomid thread who has read the link:

"Oh my. I would very much err on the side of: he's an IVF doctor, he's based in the States, medicine in the States is very much about getting paid the big bucks and as much intervention as humanly possible (have you seen the Business of Being Born? Bsaically about how high the C section rate over there is because the doctors and hospitals make more cash from C sections than vaginal births)

He doesn't cite any peer reviewed studies or link to any information that backs up what he is saying.

I'm totally with you that you can't trust what one website says - there is so much madness out there on the net, based on the things I've read I'll either never have children or I should be carrying triplets right about now!

What he says in the first paragraph about clomid being ineffective after 3 months is simply not true - I managed to find an article ages ago online from one of the obs & gynae journals which showed a graph of clomid success; yes, it tapered off dramatically after the 3 month mark but it still rose."

hopefulgum Mon 05-Nov-12 00:40:31

Golden,I did warn you about the article. It's not at all positive for over forties. I agree, it's just a doctor from an IVF clinic, but honestly,I can't find anything that is positive about clomid for women over 40,and I have looked. I wanted to know why it is that they don't like prescribing clomid to women over 40, because I have heard that over and over again on forums of over forties ttc. Some of what he said in the article explained why.I read in another article that a different fertility drug is better for women over 40.I know your doctor told you 40% of women taking clomid get pregnant (which is a fabulous rate),but what I have read gives very different stats for the over 40's.here is one study

I know there is a lot of scaremongering out there,particularly with fertility clinics, so I don't believe everything I read.I do just want to know whether taking clomid at my age is a good idea. I don't want my fertility fucked up because I took a fertility drug.

Further searches show that the FDA suggests that clomid use should be limited to 6 months.

Ultimately, if I were 41, I wouldn't consider it to be an issue, I'd probably give clomid a go, but as a woman of almost 46, I think it is a very different thing, and as I said before, the article,and the stuff I've read was about whether the drug was for me.

I know that if I get pregnant and have a baby it will be miraculous, but as long as I am open to it,there's a chance.

hopefulgum Mon 05-Nov-12 00:48:30

Calibee, it sounds like you may have already seen the article? If not,let me know if you still want to read it.

Diege Mon 05-Nov-12 11:21:29

Hello smile. Nothing to add clomid-wise (I'll stick to my 'plastic clomid' a la Agnus Castus wink) but I can understand why it's such a heated subject. So many things to consider, not least consultants' interests, mixed research, etc etc. I think hypothetically I would take at 42, but maybe not at post-45. Thankfully I don't need to make that decision. This would be an icing on the cake baby for me (think I said that a few years ago blush) but I realise how very very fortunate I am to be in that position.
Working from home today and trying to put off the work...need to go in to town to collect some plastic tat for the dcs to give dd3 for her birthday (weds) and have the barbie princess to popstart doll hmm reserved at Toys R Us...THis time next week it will be all go for dd2's birthday...Don't you just love Valentine's day conceptions grin
Hope everyone is well - very very cold here today!

littlepinkfizz Mon 05-Nov-12 12:51:59

Tested there now with frer at 10 days p.o. And a BFN. V disappointed sad

Irishmammybread Mon 05-Nov-12 13:22:54

Hi all!
Diege it's a cold day here too but really bright and sunny. I finished work early today and have just taken the dog out for a long walk,if you wrap up it's lovely to be out in the fresh air and alone with your thoughts for a bit.I'm having a cup of tea now before I crack on with some housework but am easily distracted by Mumsnet!
You have a lot of birthday's close together in your family! How old are your dds? My dd2 has moved on from Barbies to Monster High dolls, we too have toy boxes overflowing with plastic.
Hopeful I found the article on Clomid interesting and thought provoking. It's definitely a good idea to read around the subject, it's certainly not straight forward and suitability probably varies with different individual's history and circumstances.
My Mum was talking recently about a friend of hers who had fertility treatment in her youth to help her conceive,had several miscarriages along the way though did have four children and then had a surprise baby completely naturally at 47!
Miracles can happen, just hope there are some little miracles coming our way in 2013!

Irishmammybread Mon 05-Nov-12 13:25:22

littlepink, posts crossed, sorry about your BFN, but 10dpo is early, it's not over yet! x

Diege Mon 05-Nov-12 13:46:12

littlepink agree that 10dpo is very early to test and get a positive (is it only 30% of women who would get a + then, or is it less?). Do you 'feel' pre-menstrual?
Hi Irish! I'm going to have to force myself out to get the plastic tat - it must be done as there's no time at all tomorrow with work etc and will feel very pleased when it's all wrapped. Dd3 will be 7, dd2 10 (next week) and dd1 is 11. Ds2's due date was actually nov 2 (but born 28 oct) otherwise it would have been 3 weeks in the row. Psychologically the end of oct seems further back than it really is!. How old are your dcs?

littlepinkfizz Mon 05-Nov-12 13:50:47

Hi irish and diege. Thanks for your replies. Have a rotten head cold at the minute but not feeling either premenstrual or otherwise at the moment. Only tested cos I'd got 3 for 2 in boots and the frer had an extra free one too!

Do think though that the frer are v accurate even early in. Have any of you got a BFP after an early BFP?

Happy birthday to my beautiful 13 year old daughter today! Having a little family tea later!

Brrrr it is cold but beautifully fresh today! Happy Monday ladies x

Diege Mon 05-Nov-12 14:21:30

Hi Littlepink. Happy birthday for your dd thanks, hope you all have a lovely day x Re: testing, I've generally had a bfp by about cd13 (havent tested earlier than that will the bfps iirc). With dd3 I had a bfn on cd 14, and got a pos 6 days later when I tested again. I was a naive 35 year old though and knew nothing of the world of opks and temping, so presumably I ovualted late in my cycle.

TinaO99 Mon 05-Nov-12 15:53:01

thanks for all your kind words everyone, it's so lovely to be on the receiving end of them! It's started to sink in a little now and I'm beginning to feel really excited now - I must admit my first reaction was arghh how am I going to cope?! But I've got a very enthusiastic and excited dh so I'm sure we'll manage and I feel so incredibly lucky to have not one but two babies to look forward to, it'll be lovely to know too that they'll have a little playmate in each other and not be on their own.

can't really add much to the clomid debate - I didn't use it but I did have menopur twice when I did my IUI's which works in a similar way - I responded really well to it and got a good amount of follicles but unfortunately for me it didn't work, I'm glad I tried it but my egg reserves were low so I agreed with my consultant who said that what eggs I did have were likely to be of poor quality and that was why I didn't even get to the point of conceiving let alone managing to carry a baby even for a few weeks. Thats not the case for everyone though and I think it's always worth a go trying it, especially given the cost of further treatment as I can testify too.

At the end of the day its an individual decision and everyone is different, my eggs obviously went 'off' sooner than other womens do!

By the way golden don't be gone too long will you, I'll really miss your sense of humour and candour grin

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:01:26

I am having a horrible day (sorry to moan) just waiting for AF. I'm grumpy, too, and am taking it out on everyone on facebook who annoys the hell out of me anyway. I am on a mission to get defriended. I don't care. Yet another 'friend' is pregnant. She is 38 with two kids of 14 & 18 and she is an ex-porn actress (not that this has anything to do with anything). Another two of my 'friends' who have just had babies are back on cocaine within weeks of having their children in a desperate bid to regain their figures and some 'kudos'. One of them doesn't mention her baby - ever. Not out of respect for my sensitivities but because he is the least interesting thing in her life. She's just flown back from Belgium where she had her tits re-done and an acid peel which almost bloody killed her. Yet another 'friend' of 37 admitted to the inflated tits girl that she went back on amphetamines recently at week 30 of her pregnancy as 'I've done everything I can by 30 weeks to nurture the baby. She'll be fine'. These women I am talking about are all ex-strippers who I knew in the industry and are all well-educated (one is now a solicitor) and yet strangely dissociated from motherhood. I have never seen anything like it when they visit (which isn't very often - I hate visitors and I hate them especially). The inflated tits girl's baby has had to wear a special helmet for the last few months for 23 hours a day because his head is flat at the back from being laid down too much (she is the solicitor but I suspect she is now also a high-class escort). Fucking hell I cannot believe I spent a decade working with these people. I can't believe they are all mothers.

I must not judge...I must not judge...I must not judge.

Another thing that's pissing me off is the box of Milk Tray DP bought me yesterday (sweetheart). What the fuck have Cadbury's done?? Who needs a honey-flavoured caramel? I nearly threw up. Isn't it enough that I already have to toss the vomit-inducing turkish delight into the bin? And what happened to the fabulously gritty fudge? It's morphed into a lame Milky Way texture

I think we can all safely assume that my period is, indeed, on its way. The excellent news is that I got my day 21 progesterone result: 71.6!! Pre-Clomid result was 18.5. The consultant's secretary said it's a "marvellous result!" but I cried and said yes, but I'm still not pregnant after releasing two eggs and can she please tell me how quickly the consultant will increase my dose to 100mg and she said, "but you've ovulated! It has already worked!" She sounded like a proud mother sad

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:04:26

Pink, far too early to test (however...we just know, don't we? sad)

Flipping heck, I am supposed to be taking a little sabbatical from here but...

Happy birthday to those whose children are having them.

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:08:45

To top it all...when I posted on another thread this morning I was poster number 666 hmm

Diege Mon 05-Nov-12 16:35:55

Oh Golden there's absolutely no need for that angry. The honey-flavoured caramel I mean grinWho thinks up these ideas??? I was once on the testing panel for a short-lived choc bar called 'Applause' (apple flavoured, say no more) so do know there are people out there who must think some of these new flavours are an improvement hmm
I think I too would judge away at the mentality of some of your stripper friends - very odd behaviour. Good news for you then on the progesterone front. How are your temps at the moment? Is it a case of looking to next month now d'you think?
Well have discovered the joys of B&M bargains - where has that shop been all my life! That's xmas covered too then!

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:36:19

I know I sound an incorrigible gossip but I can't resist telling you all the rest of the story....the girl who has recently announced she is pregnant and is an ex-porn star is now a fitness trainer and travels the world 'seeing to' golfers (ahem). She is also fucking a man called Andrew 'Chubby' Chandler who is the agent to top golfing stars like McIlroy. Anyhoo, Geri (for that is what I will call her) has been flying out to Miami every couple of months or so to act as 'escort' to this man who is a fat, grizzly, sweaty bastard. He is also a multi-millionaire.

When he found out about her porn star past he demanded she change her name by deed poll so that nobody could categorically link her to her films (which are all over the internet). Her current boyfriend doesn't even know about her lapdancing history and will not stop asking why all her friends keep ringing and asking for 'Geri' when that is not her name! She is leading this huge double life and I can't help but wonder....who's the daddy? Ha! Ha! shock

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:43:49

Crossed posts, Diege! I laughed out loud at your short-lived chocolate-tasting-panel job! How simply groovy! Apple and chocolate is surely a satanic mix?

This morning's temp looked not dissimilar to the graceful arc Tom Daley might make as he plummets 46 feet from a diving board. Quite beautiful.. but I gave it a 2 out of 10 as I was feeling, quite understandably, churlish.

Your middle-classness amazes me, Diege. Where the hell have you been, like, forever? B&M Bargains is ace. Fry's Peppermint Cream bars are 38p compared to 76p in my local shop shock

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:51:43

I may aswell now confess that, as a stripper in Liverpool, the only 'star' I ever fucked was the original winner of the first ever Big Brother series (Craig Phillips). He was quite a friendly, well-mannered little midget with a huge willy, but he was too coked up to shag properly. When he did eventually manage to ejaculate it was into my eye and I spent the rest of the night squealing in pain, bathing my eye with water from an egg cup and moaning loudly about my inability to get my contact lenses out. Ha! Ha!

Diege Mon 05-Nov-12 17:22:28

shock I got the bars, the frys bars!!!! grin I had a tip-off about them from the childminder and there they were, cheap as chips! I am very pleased with this new spiritual home of mine and am going to try out a few others across the road - Home bargain and some other European sounding one???
Lol at Craig !! OMG! Isn't he now the odd job man on 60 minute makeover??? I will never be able to look at him the same way again, dirty b*stard shock
Onto serious matters, so sorry for the plummeting temps, what a bummer sad.

goldengirl71 Mon 05-Nov-12 17:41:55

Diege, yes, that's the chap. When he picked me up that night he took me to his newest project in Liverpool which was a string of terraced Georgian houses which he was renovating for some children's charity he and Cherie Blair were involved in! He considered her a 'friend'! Ha! Ha!

CaliBee Mon 05-Nov-12 17:43:04

Hahaha...Craig Phillips was from my childhood hometown. At least thats where he lived when he won big brother. I remember my Mom saying he came round to measure up for a new patio and got all the calculations wrong!!! Div!!
I have really really missed OH today. sad...soppy mare.
Still waiting for post provera bleed...so timing now out for OH's home leave....gah.
Oh well..I am now off for a complimentary go on a massage chair. Keeping busy...well thats the idea. x

lotsofcheese Mon 05-Nov-12 21:55:33

Golden PMSL at your stories!!!

hopefulgum Mon 05-Nov-12 23:10:51

Wow Golden, you have some amazing stories.They certainly brighten up my daygrin

So sorry about the plummeting temperature and all the pregnancy announcements on Facebook. sad

I have shut down my Facebook account.I just got really sick of the bullshit people spout.And all the "friends" that are really distant cousins whom I really don't give a shit about whether their dog rolled over and juggled knives and is soooo amazing.hmmI am just as guilty of writing inane boring bullshit on there.

I also hate how public Facebook is.My kids have it,and recently a very nasty breakup was played out over Facebook(not my son, his friends).It was awful.shockThey didn't speak to each other face to face, they did it over Facebook, complete with swearing,abuse and history,as well as having friends from either side put in their 2 cents worth. Was so ugly.

Then when I got an email saying that someone in Belgium was trying to hack into my Facebook account I decided I really didn't want it anymore.

Cali, sorry to hear you are missing your DP.Of course you are. It must be so damn hard. Bugger about the provera.I thought for sure it would help get the timing all right. Is there any chance at all that you could do IUI - get your partner's sperm frozen and inseminate when he isn't there? I know it is probably an expensive option, but it might give you more chances.

I just read on Fertility Friend that a woman aged 46 just got her bfp. Lovely, lovely news. There's also a woman there who is pregnant naturally, at 50. Amazing. I know, I know, it doesn't mean it could happen to any 46 year old ttc, but I reckon if I am at least trying there's as good a chance for me.

I have even been looking for a clearblue fertility monitor on ebay. If I can get one cheaply enough, I will buy it. I do like how they work, and not having to worry about the time to pee on the opk etc. Just pee on a stick,first morning wee.

My DS has just woken, so I must dash, love to allthanks

remnant Tue 06-Nov-12 00:08:31

gum, I caved in and ordered a cbfm today. AF due on Friday or, ideally, later.
I had my 21 day test today on day 20, probably a bit late unless this cycle does take longer than previous (fingers crossed). I've got no evidence that I OV'd at all this month. I did not catch a completely positive OPK test and I've got none of the nipple tenderness that I'd had on previous months prior to AF. That did definitely feel like a BF symptom though, but I'd be surprised that just dropping most of the feeds could remove that altogether. Anyway, I'm bracing myself for bad news from the blood test results. It cheers me though if you say the OPK is easier to use than normal OPK's.

golden, good to have you back. very sorry about your temp. I've felt gutted last few months when AF arrived, and I can only imagine how much worse it would be after going through a cycle assisted by consultants.

calibee, can't you go up and 'visit' your man for a couple of hours outside of his holidays? surely he has lunch breaks and evenings off?

tina, very happy to hear your news

CaliBee Tue 06-Nov-12 07:33:32

Morning ladies.
Gum I so wish I could consider it....sadly a very messy divirce 5 years ago lost me my house and any savings I had. My job, just allows me to scrape by and of course OH has only just started earning. So unless we get a loan then sadly IUI is out of reach. I've not had chance to talk to him yet about any of it sad
remnant good luck with the cbfm. Unfortunately OH is 3.5 hours away. As yet they are not allowed any free time except an hour or so before bed. Guess thats discipline training for you.
I had a big temp drop this morning so hopefully that means Provera has lost its grip and (fake) af is iminent. I can't remember ever wanting it before lol.
Last night I visited a health spa for a go in their massage chair....wow. I had no idea they were so powerful. They also have an area set out which is like a beach with light therapy. I may well be doing that again. Mmmmm mmmm.

goldengirl71 Tue 06-Nov-12 08:18:29

I have just waited half an hour in the freezing cold for a bus which never came. I've had to cancel my rather important appointment. I am more than angry. I hate living here with no car. AF is galloping towards me like a crazed bull sad

littlepinkfizz Tue 06-Nov-12 11:31:05

That is awful golden and can understand your anger. angry

That light therapy sounds great calibee You can dream of oh while there.

Well some brown spotting for me today and sore boobs ( neither of which I ever got before last mmc but now seem to indicate arrival of AF) so AF on her way. Very disappointed and want to give ttc a break probably for good as I am finding it too stressful . Don't know how you ladies carry on. Will def be throwing away my opk next month and just try to relax and be happy with my lot. smile

JBrd Tue 06-Nov-12 11:54:40

remnant - let me know how you get on with the cbfm, I am starting to get tempted to buy one, too. Have been quite happy with my cheap OPK sticks from Amazon so far, in combination with FertilityFriend I seem to be able to track ovulation quite accurately. Well, last month anyway, I've only started doing the temperature tracking very recently!

Golden - may I ask why you don't drive? Sounds as if you are living out in the sticks, where a car would be more than handy, what with independence and all. I found that public transport outside of London is useless - when I moved away from the city, first thing I had to do was buy a car! (And then learn to drive on the other side - I grew up in Germany).

CaliBee - rather envy about your spa visit - I love spa treatments! Unfortunately, I can't afford treating myself as often as I would like anymore, childcare costs are prohibitive for these little luxuries. I'm currently trying to get some reflexology treatments organised, which won't be cheap... Turns out, it's not that easy with my medical history!

'Green' week for me at the moment, ovulation about to happen in the next couple of days, I have everything crossed (again)! I just wish there was a way I could stay relaxed, I feel as if all that pressure I am putting on myself and DH can't be supportive to conception - it's all in my head, I know, but I can't help thinking that if I was happier and more chilled, I'd be able to conceive... Ah well, here's hoping. At least DH doesn't seem to be affected by it, he's more than keen grin. Wish me luck, ladies!

Irishmammybread Tue 06-Nov-12 12:09:39

Sorry AF seems to be on its way Littlepink .I can understand how you feel.
I've only been ttc since May but it is stressful, however I feel while I have such a deep desire for a baby I would regret not continuing while there's still a chance. I think for me because it was suggested I could try taking aspirin after the last miscarriage,I want to at least see if that makes a difference. If I miscarried again on aspirin I might feel differently but who knows. Having said that I may not even conceive again ! I am trying to not obsess because it feels almost disloyal to my kids to be totally preoccupied with having a baby, but it is difficult, I just feel like there's still someone missing from the family. Your attitude of relaxing and being happy with your lot is commendable!
I hope your dd had a great day yesterday,did she get lots of One Direction gifts?
Diege you asked how old my DC are, DS is 19 and in his second year at University, DD1 is 13 and DD2 will be 9 in a few weeks, our family is a bit more spread out than yours, and if I do ever manage to have another we'll have a massive age gap between oldest and youngest(but I think it would work,lot's of babysitters!)
Home Bargains and ALDI are my guilty pleasures, ALDI for continental meats and cheeses and chocolate chip brioche rolls!
Cali wouldn't you think that since your OH is making such a sacrifice and serving his country the NHS should fund some IUI!
It must be so hard being apart from him.
That spa sounds great. My DH suffers from SAD and goes into hibernation mode once the days start going shorter. He has a small therapy light screen to sit in front of at home in the morning but that beach set up sounds much more appealing. I can't see him visiting a spa though.

Irishmammybread Tue 06-Nov-12 12:11:11

Good Luck JBrd !

goldengirl71 Tue 06-Nov-12 16:12:15

Pink, I feel your pain thanks If these three cycles of Clomid render me childless, still, I shall be rethinking my entire approach to ttc. For instance I shall close my mumsnet account. I think everyone on this thread is super but I cannot help feeling I am doing myself no favours being on here. Normal women ttc do not do this, I'm sure. They don't use OPKs or chart their temperatures pointlessly and scrutinise other women's charts frantically looking for similar temps to their own. They don't spend hour after hour, day after day, wishing their life was different to how it is now. It's all so fucking depressing - and talking about how depressing it all is is...well...even more depressing.

So, Pink, I totally understand your desire to move on. I think it would require a huge shift in mindset and a refusal to lurk on threads etc, but I'm sure there is an answer to this feeling of being on a shitty merry-go-round like this one. It's only been seven months since my miscarriage but I'll tell you this for nothing...I won't be here in another seven months on this same merry-go-round. Something has to change, because I feel I am doing myself and DP a huge injustice by believing that a baby is the only answer to my life's happiness. This journey is nothing but fucking torture and there is only so much putting-one's-dreams-on-ice every single fucking month that one can take.

Sorry for the profanities..it's just the way I am feeling. It's been a toughie today. I've just returned from my re-scheduled appointment and yet another stint in the dentist chair. JBrd, we cannot afford a car. We lost everything we owned during the years of addiction: houses, cars, money, jobs, family - everything. We don't have a pot to piss in. If we had any money at all we would be going for IVF with donor eggs - certainly not a car.

goldengirl71 Tue 06-Nov-12 16:55:11

Ooooh! I'm just reading the paper. Do you remember Rachida Dati, the beautiful ex-justice minister for France? She gave birth at 43 and the father was a mystery for yonks? Well..revelations about her love life have emerged in a bitter row about the paternity of her daughter. It seems that, at the time of conception, she was sleeping with eight different men. See? That's the answer to our problems! Tons and tons and tons of semen from tons of different men...

Anyone for dogging?

CaliBee Tue 06-Nov-12 17:33:36

Hahaha....golden ....but I only want one mans baby.
*jbrd" I'm in the same position. I couldnt afford expensive spa treatments. This one was a free go and the chance to be put forward for a trial 6 month treatment. They ultimately want to get the massage chairs and audio relaxation therapies to be prescribable on the NHS. I certainly came out feeling good.
Awwwpink I feel for you and totally understand how you feel about giving up. I go from day to day jumping from one feeling to the next. Keep your chin up....maybe this is your month.
Irish I couldnt agree with you more...however it seems that as long as one half of the couple doesnt meet the criteria...then sod the other one.
I forgot to tell you all that when the consultant told DP that his semen was completely normal, that she also added (very insensitively I thought) "dont worry you have years and years ahead of you to have children" Stoooopid woman. The more I think about the appointment the more angry I feel.

CaliBee Tue 06-Nov-12 17:35:20

Apperently DP was worked so hard in his PT session yesterday that he was sick.....hmmmmm. He couldnt wait to tell me this on the phone last night.

Irishmammybread Tue 06-Nov-12 19:20:55

CaliBee can't believe how tactless that doctor was! Anyway,it's not the point when your DP only wants one woman's baby!
They must be really pushing them in training. My DS will sometimes train so hard he's sick, especially on a long run,he just throws up and keeps going,nice! What is it with the male species, they just love describing their bodily functions!

littlepinkfizz Tue 06-Nov-12 19:32:39

Yes you have exactly pinpointed how I feel golden . I ver lurked on threads here before with any of my other pregnancies, nor did I use opk's or even know when I ovulated or had ny idea when that would be. DP was even working away at time of ds conception. We then made a trip abroad requiring 3 vaccinations, malarial tablets every day on the trip and for days after,lots of drink, diarrhoea tablets and smoking grass. I just enjoyed life. Now I am too focused on it and it is not happening. I want o get back to that and will give up mumsnet , keeping a note of period dates and be normal.

I will miss you all here and it I,l be very difficult to stop logging on to catch up but I must do it.

Lots and lots and lots of luck to everyone. If I do manage a BFP I will come back and share it with you all. thanks to all you wonderful,brave ladies x

goldengirl71 Tue 06-Nov-12 20:13:47

Shit, Pink, I hope my rant didn't push you over the edge into self-imposed exile from mumsnet (although I won't apologise for voicing what a tedious, heartbreaking carousel this can be that we are on). I'm sure there are women on threads such as this who are relatively sane and have such bursting, fulfilling lives that they can compartmentalise their ttc efforts and retain some semblance of contentment. For a childless woman these threads can be very, very painful and I will be joining you in your exile when my Clomid cycles end. Take much care, my love, and I wish you every success for the future. I think you're being incredibly brave taking some control back. Good for you xx

Bronte41 Wed 07-Nov-12 11:39:53

Hi ladies...have been lurking a while so thought I'd finally pluck up the courage to join you.

After much talk, we have decided that we are going for it. I'm 41 and my dh is 37. I have a 13 year old from a previous relationship. Today is IUD removal day which I'm excited and terrified about in almost equal measure. I saw my GP last month and said we were considering it and her words were 'starting sooner is better'.

We've agreed that we will just see what happens naturally. I can't allow myself to get caught up with ovulation prediction kits and temperature charts et al. My personality is such that it would completely take over my life and I don't want that. That's not to say I'm not supportive of those who do those things, I just know they would be bad for me.

I admit I'm terrified of it all as I had a difficult pregnancy before but I guess I will cross that bridge in due course (hopefully).

CaliBee Wed 07-Nov-12 17:37:15

Hi Bronte and a big welcome to you.
I have to say I know exactly what you mean about how you cant let yourself be allowed to get too caught up in all the paraphenalia available whilst ttc. I started off exactly the same as you but have to confess that 7 months down the line I am now queen of temperatures and opks....hmmmm. Have to confess though that whilst OH has been away these past days it has been a welcome break from it all. I've not peed on a single stick lol. Temping seems to have become a habit however.
So ladies...still awaiting bloody af (excuse the pun). It will be 7 days tomorrow since taking the last Provera....gah. So much for that then. Not impressed, and my boobs feel like they would have somebodies eye out!!!! I really just want to get on with clomid now. It looks like it will be a definate nogo for OH's next homevisit but at least I can see if the dose is ok and if it actually works atall for me, and then get on with planning his Xmas leave.

Bronte41 Wed 07-Nov-12 19:43:23

Thanks calibee. I have to admit that I did the Provera & Clomid thing many years ago before I had my daughter. It didn't work for me. I went on to have my daughter with no help. So all of you dealing with fertility treatments, I can relate. Having done it is probably what makes me wary of getting that caught up again.

I'm now iud free for the first time in years. It's a bit scary but I'm excited!

remnant Wed 07-Nov-12 19:47:26

Good to hear from you bronte.

I have to say I'm a fan of all the ttc technology.

DH and I are way to old and have been married way too long to rely on spontaneous shagging. We gave up after two months of casual ttc with dc1. Bought Toni Weschler's book and we were away. I was only 39 then though, and I hadn't discovered mumsnet or fertility friend.

This time I'm better informed but with a lot less luck. Not sure how long I'd be able to hang on with diminishing hope. If I was ttc dc1 at this age and failing I think I'd start looking into adoption sooner rather than later. That wouldn't need to stop the TTC but would would at least help to put it in the background. As I understand it your youngest child has to be 6 before you can adopt, but there's obviously nothing to stop you having a baby after adopting.

10000Fireflies Wed 07-Nov-12 20:51:34

Evening all. Just dropping in to say hi. Haven't read the latest. Sorry. Promise to do better soon! Occurred to me that, maybe we should set up a thread to accompany this one where we can post our favourite TTC tips. For that and nothing else. Could be really good. What do you think?

Chatting with another lady changing her baby. The usual stuff. She asked me after a while if DS was my first. Her jaw hit the floor when I said yes.... I was too busy to bother to follow up with her, but nothing like that for an ego boost! Not. Remind me not to take my zimmer frame out with me along with DS again!

hopefulgum Wed 07-Nov-12 23:10:27

I do like your idea Fireflies, about a thread with all the beat ttc tips.

Just ignore the lady with the dropped jaw (how rude). Doesn't she know how common it is for 40 somethings to have babies? And that 40 is the new 30 etcwink

Littlepink - sorry to hear you are leaving us. Come back anytime.

Golden how are you feeling? I am guessing that AF (the ugly old bitch) came?Are you trying the clomid again?

I've been on an American ttc thread, and it seems the doctors in the US prescribe to many,many ladies in their 40's. I'm seeing my doctor today and will talk to her about it then.She's no fertility specialist (didn't even know how to prescribe progesterone) but I'll give it a go. She did want to refer me to a fertility specialist, but I didn't go - my DH didn't want any part in it, and the specialist ran a fertility clinic (read IVF). There's no way I'd go see him now as I would be told that I'd have to have donor eggs (which isn't going to happen), and I don't want to make the long trip to the city and pay a shitload of dollars to be told that.

Welcome Bronte, this is a very supportive place to be when ttc. I've been here for years (literally) and seen many women get pregnant and have a baby. I hope your stay isn't too long.

JBrd Thu 08-Nov-12 09:07:45

Welcome from me, too, Bronte41

I'm also quite a fan of all the ttc technology/methods - I think because it gives me a sense of control over something that is by nature so very haphazard... I'm a confessed control freak, and I find that using OPKs, temping and charting reassures me that I am in charge... Or at least trying to be. The downside is that I spend far to much time looking and agonising over charts!

Like just this very morning - I am meant to be ovulating any day, and my OPK was positive the day before yesterday, and my temp had started to rise nicely, as it should - just to take a massive dip this morning! So now I am fretting over the flipping chart, trying to make sense of it all - what do I believe, the OPK, the temperature? Have I missed it? Or will it still happen?
Making things worse, we didn't dtd last night, DH fell asleep too quickly, and I was sooo tired as well. Argh!

And another friend has just announced that she's pg again. Not fair! I was one of the first to start ttc again in my circle, but they are all so young and super-fertile angry

hopefulgum Thu 08-Nov-12 09:38:13

Like you Jbrd, charting,opk's etc help me feel like there is a modicom of control going on in the ttc caper. In fact I just peed on an opk stick and it is positive. So I am glad we shagged last night but can't decide if I should hassle him for more sex tonight or save it for tomorrow? I think three nights in a row would be a bit much. Who knows, if I offer a HJ, I bet he'd respond.

I'm bloody peeved about my doctor. It is so hard to get an appointment with her, I usually have to book 3 or 4 weeks in advance. I haven't been able to see her due to her holidays, mine,her being called away etc etc, so today I thought I'd finally get the bloody pap smear over with and finally get to speak to her about progesterone,clomid etc. But she was called away to the hospital and I didn't get to see herangry and I bet she was delivering a babyenvyGod,I wish it was me having a baby that had her called away for. Blah!

However, the sun is shining, tomorrow is a pupil free day at work (I am a teacher), and we are going out for lunch and for a drink after work.So that's nice. My mum sent me a card (she no longer phones me, fuck knows why, she's just stubborn that way)with $50 in it. I might just spend it on a fertility monitorgrinThough I don't think I really need it. Perhaps I'll spend the 50 on lindt chocolate (stock up before PMS time).

How is everyone else?

I hope all is well. I think I might go and watch Miranda on ABC iview on my ipad. I'm feeling lazy...

Gum xxx

hopefulgum Thu 08-Nov-12 09:41:29

Oh, Jbrd, meant to say, if you've had a drop in temps, it doesn't mean you haven't ovulated, especially as you had a positive opk. Usually Fertility Friend wants three temps above cover line to say you've ovulated.Is the dropped temp still above cover line?Perhaps you could do another opk to get a clue of what might be going on. Otherwise,just keep temping and shagging every second day if possibleshock, I know, it would kill me if I had to do it every second day for weekswinkEventually the temps will start to make sense.

Bronte41 Thu 08-Nov-12 12:27:07

Thanks for the welcomes.

I absolutely know where you're all coming from in terms of the use of technology. I think it should all be used. It's just for us, at this stage, it's not something I want to do. I may change my mind six months into this!

After I had my daughter, I found out I have a blood clotting disorder called factor v Leiden. I obviously had it when pg with her but I was unaware. My GP told me yesterday that I may need to be on fragmin throughout any pregnancy. That scared me until I read up on it last night. So as well as being told 41 is old and that issue, I'm not sure I could handle anymore facets to ttc. But we'll see how it goes.

goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 13:28:44

Bronte, hello and welcome to the thread thanks I have just started my second round of Clomid (more of that later) and have thrown away my basal body temperature (actually, it is in a gorgeous box containing even more gorgeous hand-knitted baby booties which some granny from church made me when I was pregnant - I had a mmc at 11 weeks). Anyhoo..like you, I am simply not prepared to agonise over these bastard charts any more. They are torturous and, more worryingly, do not tell the truth about ovulation. All nine of my charts have showed that I have ovulated and yet I scored 18.5 for my pre-Clomid day 21 progesterone result. This clearly showed I had not ovulated and my charts were deluding me. Shocking.

Not only this but I believe charting and temping and OPKing and all the other mind-consuming rituals we indulge in on this journey actually can often detract from the fact that we are simpply not having enough sex - and not at the right time. If you get a positive OPK and do not have sex that night or the next you are simply not going to get pregnant. Especially as The Sperm Meets Egg plan says that, without fertile cervical mucus (egg white) - which we over-40s tend not to have - sperm will only live for two hours. An egg has a 12 hour lifespan and we can all do maths. I simply don't believe (at our age and without tons of EWCM) that sex once three days before ovulation is going to do the job. Unfortunately, at our age, we simply are not shagging like feral beasts for a variety of reasons. My DP has problems ejaculating and is on Viagra for the 'pressure' times aound ovulation. I feel very resentful (when AF arrives) that I wasn't filled with his sperm twice a day for the 48 hours leading up to, then including, ovulation.

So, we can play around scritinising charts all I like..but it is not getting me pregnant and after nine months I have learned everything there is to know about how my cycles look each and every month. Sex is the key - and plenty of it. I am fortunate that, now I am on Clomid, I get scanned on CD14 when the nurse injects me with HCG and she tells me when to have sex (not that same night - is quite telling. She advises the night after the injection - which, of course, is when the egg will be being released) The point is, she sees no point in having sex any earlier. Interesting.

Sorry for this long post but reading The Sperm Meets Egg Plan again is refreshing. We get so consumed with the rituals surrounding ttc that sometimes it's easy to forget we're not actually having enough sex - at the right time.

AF arrived yesterday - a whole day later than expected. I knew Clomid could extend the luteal phase (thanks, but my very healthy 13 day phase did not need extending!) but was still holding out for that BFP. I am so brave, though - I refused to test after that negative at 11DPO smile As you know, I despise 'symptom spotters' who convince themselves they are preggo with their 'tender breasts' (ill-fitting bra), their 'cramps' (trapped wind - do go for a shit, love) and their 'bloating' (again, go and squeeze one out for heaven's sake!). BUT...I became 'one of them'! In the final week of the 2ww I was woken three times with nausea and couldn't lie on my front for the painful nipples! Moreover, I never got the usual premenstraul symptoms of skin break-out, 2-3lbs weight gain and voracious appetite. Naughty Clomid.

So, here I am..just started my second lot of Clomid, not temping or charting or OPKing; I will let Linda the nurse direct our SWI and leave it at that. I have warned DP, however, that I want his sperm TWICE on the day of ovulation. He looked like this shock and then hmm and so I went angry and he goes grin

goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 14:18:58

Remnant, we cannot adopt due to our criminal records and the fact that I was sacked for hitting a child. DP has also been in prison. We cannot afford IVF, hence the often-panicked/irritable tone of my posts. The other ladies on the Clomid thread have 'Plan B' if this drug does not work for them; they are relatively young and will go on to try IVF and some are even talking about adoption at this stage. DP and I have nothing further to hope for if Clomid doesn't work for us. I am 'only' just turned 41, though.

Gum, I'm chuffed to bits you're considering Clomid and not because I am on it (I get plenty of support on the Clomid thread). I simply don't feel that, at 46 (when was your birthday, by-the-way? Did we miss it? thanks), this drug will 'fuck up' your fertility. I am trying not to be cavalier. I know you are an intelligent and erudite woman so I don't hink I am being flippant when I say 'go for it'. I hope you pin your GP down pretty soon.

I've a feeling my last post is going to evoke some sqwawks of derision from those who are not managing to have plenty of or well-timed sex. Please don't go nuts at me. I am always a little fired-up when reading how many IVF patients are told they are simply not having enough sex (Zita) and I just think there is little point in OPKing if we don't, for whatever reason, bother to have sex when the surge is detected. I do not believe all this anecdotal 'evidence' about women getting preggo from sex they had 5 days prior to ovulation. They were either very young and have lost count of the amount of screwing they're doing or they are full to the brim of EWCM.

JBrd Thu 08-Nov-12 14:28:57

Bronte - I can relate to your clotting problems! I have a similar (well, sort of) issue - back in January, I spent 2 weeks in hospital with pneumonia and pulmonary embolism, which is caused by DVT. I had to take anticoagulants for 3 months after that. The most likely reason I developed the clot was -oh so ironically!- that I had started taking the pill again (the combined one, not the mini pill, which would have been what I should have taken).
So in the event that I do get pregnant, I will have to be under consultant care, take heparin by daily injection, and more likely than not, will have to consider an elective cesarian. My age and weight are not at all helpful with this either (although I'm doing something about the weight now).

However, the longer this goes on, the less I worry about it (to the point I almost don't care anymore)! I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, and at least it's something I will know about beforehand, so I will be able to deal with it. I trust that I will be taken care of - in spite of all my moaning about the NHS and health system, I have no complaints whatsoever regarding my care when I needed it, during my PE/pneumonia, my last pregnancy and the tricky birth I had.
Importantly, none of my consultants thought that this will be an issue for future pregnancies (and I grilled them on that), so that's what I'm going with.

Golden - I so agree that it really all does come down to not having enough sex. We seem to have developed a rather unhealthy pattern of having hardly any sex at all in the 3 weeks between, and then going at it like rabbits (excuse the TMI!) in the days around ovulation - and to be honest, I am exhausted! One of the rare occasions that I do have to admit that we are getting older grin. But I resent the fact that dtd is becoming a chore, it shouldn't be! And although he doesn't say it, I suspect that DH is starting to feel the same (I would if I was him!). I can definitively start to notice signs that he's not as young as he used to be either...sigh. Still thinking how to best suggest to him to do a fertility test... Any advice on how to best make that move?!

goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 17:00:21

JBrd, I, too, am not having enough sex. Last night I asked DP why we only had sex once during the 2ww this month and he said: "I'm depressed" (I am not surprised living with me). He insists it is nothing to do with trying for a baby (he is deperate to get me pregnant and be a daddy again) and everything to do with his new job - he is exhausted every night after gruelling 12 hour days. Are there any ladies on this thread who are swimming in sperm around ovulation? If so, I am envy I was depressed on your behalf, JBrd, when you wrote that your husband fell asleep last night at the crucial time sad I seriously would have gone nuts.

I don't know if I have any advice regarding bringing up the subject of fertility tests gently/tactfully to your DP. I am afraid I am not a gentle/tactful person. I would simply tell him that you need him to give a sample so that you can at least be armed with the knowledge that everything is okay/not okay. It is the very least any of our DPs can do if we ask them to.

hopefulgum Thu 08-Nov-12 22:45:40

Golden, I have an appointment to see the GP on Nov 19. I'll discuss the clomid option then. I do find it hard to believe there's a possibility I'm not ovulating - I have the surge (according to opk's) and then I have very obvious ovary pain. I wish I knew if the pain signaled that the egg will soon be released, or if it is imminent or whether it has already happened.And what if the pain etc is all just the body trying to release an egg,but he follicle is empty????I could make myself nuts over this,so I shall remain optimistic that I am indeed firing out an egg.

I'm feeling rather pleased that my Dh was more than happy to DTD last night,and,who knows, we might just manage it again tonight. I'm pretty sure FF will pinpoint today as O day, so I should probably DTD again, but my cervix is now firm and closed, so I think the gate is shut.

I am pleased to say that my DS is now sleeping through the night (it's about bloody time, he is 4),and I've had three consecutive nights with no interruptions. Lovely. I had a dream that I was visiting a consultant chinese doctor who told me that the new statistics said that fertility declined at 55-59, not at 45-49 as previously thought. Ha,Ha, obviously dreaming then, wasn't I?confused

Jbrd, I know what you mean about approaching your DH about having the sperm test. After my DH had the vasectomy reversal, I was so worried that it hadn't worked,I bought a microscope and made up my own slides to see if the swimmers were present. I can't tell you the delight I felt watching those little guys madly swimming about. It was very reassuring. We had a proper test done in a lab too.

I'm not suggesting you do the same shock, but just wanted to say it is worth asking him to have the test, just for reassurance. And if there is an issue, there's a lot that can be done to get a better sperm count,mobility etc. I know clomid has been used on men for sperm issues, but just taking certain vitamins can have a huge impact on sperm quality and quantity.

Deige, my lovely, are you opening the Bistro tonight? I could really get my teeth into some crispy fried fish,beer batter chips and a big green salad. And seeings it's my birthday tomorrow, I'll have raspberry creme brulee for dessert. And lots,and lots of champagne.grin

hopefulgum Thu 08-Nov-12 22:52:02

BTW, also very excited, because for the first time in ages, I actually had EWCM yesterday.grinNt swimming in it,sadly, but at least it was present.

goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 22:56:23

"I bought a microscope and made up my own slides to see if the swimmers were present". Gum, you crazy bitch! I love it!

A propos ovulating: isn't it true that all women have at least two anovulatory cycles per year? If this is true, why aren't our charts reflecting this? I don't believe we are ovulating every single month, Gum (well, me, anyway..my day 21 test proved that). When I next see the nurse at the fertility clinic for my scan, I shall ask her to explain what is going on in our charts which could explain the shift in temp (and your 'ovulation pain') if indeed we have not ovulated. Do let me know, Gum, if there's anything you personally would like to know about this drug. I'll do my best to find out.

I know I'm early but...*HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!* thanks wine biscuit xxx

goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 23:24:51

Gum, you will probably think I am nuts but I promise you that recently I read that 'ovulation pain' is usually a signal that a too-ripe follicle (which consultants call a cyst) has burst. This is the source of the pain. Any follicle measuring more than 25mm is considered a 'cycst'. I am wondering, then, what a chart would look like where ripened follicles have been present but no egg was released or, alternatively, the follicle(s) has burst. I am still in the dark as to why my chart showed 'ovulation' when my day 21 result proved I had not.

JBrd Thu 08-Nov-12 23:31:45

gum - love the anecdote about the microscope! You know, I could actually do that, or something similar - I work in a science lab, lots and lots of microscopes about. Just need to think about how to get DH's sperm there in time (I assume it needs to be fresh?) grin
But maybe I'll settle for a home test first.

Well, I think that's it for me trying for this cycle - I was planning for another round of dtd, to make sure everything is covered, but DH has just thrown a massive hissy fit and gone off to bed. He's not feeling well and is apparently in pain, which has turned him into a stroppy a****le. He's never been good with handling pain, but this is ridiculous - why do I have to get snapped just for asking how he feels and trying to help? I suggested calling NHS Direct, and he completely flipped, slamming the stairgate and muttering something about 'never should've mentioned it'. Excuse me?! I'm so cross right now that I feel like making him sleep in the spare room, the idiot. But guess who will be driving him to A&E if it turns out to be the same thing again like last time this happened?! angry

I really don't need this right now - starting to feel a bit 'frayed at the edges', it's all getting a bit too much... Sometimes it feels there's never a break - worrying about work and ttc at the same time is not a good combination!

Better go and get some sleep, who knows when I'll have to get up again...

goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 23:37:36
goldengirl71 Thu 08-Nov-12 23:43:24

Oh, JBrd, I am so sorry. We crossed posts. Can you tell us what pain your DP has? Does he have some kind of 'condition'? It's horrid, that stinging aftermath of a row when both parties are left seething - especially when it's supposed to be sexy time. Totally and utterly frustrating. I'm so sorry you're having to try to sleep on this. Deep breaths, pet, and I hope your hubby feels a right twat in the morning thanks x

JBrd Fri 09-Nov-12 00:06:21

Golden - thanks for your kind words. This whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so infuriating!
It's one of his balls that is hurting. And no, I'm not kidding. He had this exact same thing a few years ago, and it got so bad that we ended up in A&E because the pain was so strong. There is a quite serious condition called testicular torsion where a bloke's balls can get into a sort of twisted position (due to whatever reason, don't demand any details), which results in inflammation, cut-off of blood supply and all sorts of other nasties, and it can turn out really bad if it's not recognised and treated in time. And that time is very short, you have to do something within 6 hours to avoid any serious damage. In the worst case, surgery is necessary.

Last time, all turned out well, and although we never found out why his ball hurt, it wasn't because of twisting (god, this sounds so stupid when I write it down). But we had to spend the night in A&E - where fortunately, they took it very seriously! But can you imagine having to tell someone that your balls hurt?! As a bloke, I mean.

Like I said, it would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

So now DH is worried it's going to be the same thing again - which is why I suggested calling NHS Direct, to get some reassurance about what to do. Still don't understand why he flipped, he knows I want to help.

Men, eh? Sigh...

goldengirl71 Fri 09-Nov-12 00:27:31

Oh, JBrd, your poor hubby and poor you. Testicles can be very, very tricky and I am not laughing at all. What the heck is up, I wonder? I'll bet he freaked out before at the mention of NHS Direct because it was such an (emotionally?) painful experience last time? Men find it so incredibly difficult getting medical help for something embarrassing. I don't know what to say...sad x

hopefulgum Fri 09-Nov-12 03:27:45

I am at work, and on the iPad, so there could be some spellos. I should be making worksheets for my year eights, but just had to drop in and send ahug to jbrd because it really sounds awful, and difficult. Your poor DH. I do hope you can get to the bottom of what is ailing him.

As for testing the sperm, it needs a little time to liquefy (info probably easily found on the net), and shouldn't be left too much longer than 40 minutes I think, or they'll start dying off. For the official sperm test, my DH ejaculated at home, I put the sample ( in jar) between my breasts to keep it warm and alive as I had a 20 minute drive to the lab. Some labs and hospitals insist on the sample being "provided" at the hospital/ lab, but there were no facilities ain my town.

golden I will have to take that info about pain and ovulation with a pinch of salt as I have always had the o pain, and have had nine pregnancies(5 live births) resulting from sex happening around ovulation pain( except my first pregnancy at the age of 19 when I had sex on day 7 or 8 of my cycle and ended up pregnant, I had a hard time believing it and it ended with a termination ). So there must have been an egg. I have also had a cyst and the pain when that happens was on a whole different level - excruciating. I have had annovulatory cycles which I temped through whilst breast feeding, and there was no obvious temperature shift.

Better do some work...

hopefulgum Fri 09-Nov-12 03:33:14

I just found this, golden you might find it interesting:
"I wanted to share with you what my former doctor e-mailed me when I inquired about adequate progesterone levels indicating that ovulation did in fact occur. Do with it what you wish, but after amazengrace's post, I thought it may be very useful:
Progesterone is secreted by the ovary in an odd fashion.  The blood levels follow the every-90-minutes LH pulses.  As a result the level in any woman who is ovulating varies from 3 ng/mL to 25 ng/mL depending on when it is drawn relative to the most recent LH pulse.  When women are anovulatory, the levels of progesterone rarely are above 0.2 ng/mL so there is little trouble separating the ovulatory from the anovulatory groups.  The problem comes when physicians take the test beyond what it can do and try to determine the quality of the luteal progesterone production thinking, erroneously, that a 15 ng/mL progesterone indicates a better luteal phase and hence chance of conception than a level of 5 ng/mL.  Put more simply, any ovulation is as good as any other ovulation when the progesterone level is 3ng/mL or greater. "

hopefulgum Fri 09-Nov-12 03:37:13

But since reading that it seems in the uk, you use different measuments and that info was from the us.

Sorry, I doubt it helps.

hopefulgum Fri 09-Nov-12 03:40:08

Found this one on mumsnet:"I really have to put to bed this myth that you need a level of 30 to show ovulation. You need a level of around 30 to sustain a pregnancy but it's perfectly possible to have ovulated on levels in the teens. I have been pregnant on levels of 18. The fact that this myth is perpetuated means, in my opinion, that many women are being told that they are not ovulating and getting pregnant when infact they are ovulating but their progesterone levels are not reaching high enough levels for implantation to occur and infact they're often having multiple very early miscarriages.

I had 4 m/c when ttc #2 and my levels never went over 23. All pregnancies were confirmed by blood tests. My 5th pregnancy had a level of 7 and doppler ultrasound showed no progesterone activity at all yet I had a BFP and once on progesterone supplements went onto have a healthy 41 week baby."

Right, I really am going to do those worksheets now.grin

shandybass Fri 09-Nov-12 04:04:37

Hi all. I used to be on this thread and wanted to pass on how helpful and supportive I found it through my difficulties ttc. I am now up doing night feeds for my beautiful dd of 5 months at 42 years old. I think I would have given up after a second mmc but for being able to vent my anxieties on here and get so many tips. It did seem to stop my life for a while and it is hard but there is always hope if you really want a baby.
Babydust and hugs to you all. Hi to diege gum, fireflies,*lol*, bb tina fingers crossed and anyone I've missed.

TinaO99 Fri 09-Nov-12 09:07:35

jbrd my hubby had exactly the same thing - a terrific pain in on etesticle - the dr sent him straight to hospital as he thought it was twisted, in the end after scans etc he found he had a bad infection which was cured with antibiotics but it was a worrying time, not least because I had to bully my husband into going to the docs at all!

shandy lovely to hear from you, it all sounds good, how many times a night does your little one get you up?

I am feeling extreme;y hormonal at the moment and the slightest thing is setting me off into rages or tears - one good thing is that my boobs have perked up considerably and my nipples are now pointing out instead of to the floor hooray! I can't stand anything being near near them as they are so sore but that is a good sign i hope that my hormone levels are strong.

Just having a frustrating time at the moment trying to get into NHS antenatal care now my clinic has released me - the process seems to have deteriorated since i had my daughter 21 years ago and now consists of the receptionist putting a form in a basket for the midwife to see and pick up as and when she feels like it - do they have no sense of urgency for gods sake!!!!

goldengirl71 Fri 09-Nov-12 11:22:51

Thanks, Gum, for that info. Again, I'm reluctant to believe what I read on the internet - even mumsnet - and I agree the stuff I read about ovulation pain sounds a complete nonsense. Have you charted an anovulatory cycle since ceasing to breastfeed? Surely that's about two years ago and your charts should have seen at least a couple?

What would you say to a consultant who told you that, with a day 21 score of 18.5 you hadn't ovulated, despite what your charts showed? I wish I could put this mystery to bed. What does anyone else think?

Shandy, thanks for coming back to encourage us! Were you 41 when you conceived? Was it your first child?

Tina, are you around seven weeks pregnant? When I was pregnant my seventh and eighth weeks found me morphed into a she-devil. I had such rage coursing through my veins. Sorry you feel like a number in the NHS system, I fear you have nailed what the problem is. Enjoy your perky knockers! x

Right-o, I'm off to do some weight training. I did an hour of spinning last night and felt utterly rejuvenated. I almost cleaned the bathroom shock

TinaO99 Fri 09-Nov-12 16:04:06

golden I'm 9 weeks pregnant on Monday and yes I feel terrific rage over the smallest things I can't do anything about, eg stuff I see on the news, bad drivers etc! I yelled at my husband the other week probably for the first time ever as I'm so mild mannered normally and he was totally shocked lol

can't remember being like this before but i guess i've got double the amount of hormones this time haha

have a great weekend everyone - am going to have a naughty takeaway curry tomorrow night so no cooking for me hooray!

goldengirl71 Fri 09-Nov-12 16:20:02

The first pregnancy on the Clomid thread has been announced!! smile envy sad

This lady has only been with us for ten days and hadn't even started her Clomid yet! She was on day 20 of her cycle when she joined us and was desperately awaiting AF so she could start. She was refused Clomid until recently because she had a BMI of 30.7 shock She was told she couldn't have Clomid until she got her BMI down to 30 shock which she recently did. Her cycles were anything up to 73 days in length and has had several chemical pregnancies due to too-low progesterone. She is 32. Jammy, jammy, jammy...

goldengirl71 Fri 09-Nov-12 16:26:12

...forgot the most important bit: this lady saw EWCM from CD13-16, has no idea when she ovulated but had sex on CD14 and CD18. Do you think EWCM is the answer?

hopefulgum Fri 09-Nov-12 22:40:43

Well, Golden, I think EWCM must help, but I wouldn't say it is the answer. I have gotten pregnant in my 40's without a lot of EWCM. I've gotten pregnant when it was "wet", but not the classic EWCM. Of course it helps. I'd say the lady on your thread ovulated around the day 14 sex. The EWCM will help keep sperm nourished and active for longer, but then so will the sperm friendly lubricant (which,incidentally, I used with the conception of my DS, but not the other pregnancies).Her weight loss may be a factor too.

I think the answer to getting pregnant is a combination of factors - cervical mucus,sex at the right time, popping out an egg (and a good healthy one at that, with a shell that isn't too hard to break),unblocked follopian tubes,a nice spongy endometrium that isn't too thin or too thick, enough progesterone to sustain a pregnancy etc, etc.

And the annoying fact is that it is very hard for us to control any of it, especially as we age. Our eggs can be less than perfect, with hard shells, our follicles might not release the egg.Our lining could be too thin or too thick, our hormones might be slightly out of whack. We are up against it. But over and over, we see women here who have babies, so, sometimes the planets align and all the factors are right and a baby happens.

That's why you just have to consistently keep at it (if your emotional health can handle it) because you might just have it all fall into place one of these months.*Golden*, you got pregnant before, there's a very good chance you will again.smile

Shandy - so nice to hear from you. I just love babies at the 4-5 month age, they are gorgeous. Enjoy every minute, the grow so fast (I know, boring old cliche, but just so true).

My DH and I didn't manage a third night in a row (which was O day, but my cervix was well and truly firm and closed by last night). We might have managed it but we got a phone call last night because his mother may have had a stroke.He stayed up hoping to hear more news, but won't know anything til this morning. So I was fast asleep by the time he came in.I think MIL had a small stroke and it was probably more of a warning than something major, or at least I hope so.

I woke up very early, but still had a nicely risen temperature,so I guess I did ovulate. Golden, I had a look over my charts for the last year or so, and apart from after the miscarriage,and a couple of short cycles, I can't really spot anovulatory cycles. All of the cycles have an obvious temperature rise. But if every woman supposedly has two anovulatory cycles every year, I can't actually spot them.And is that absolutely true?Is it every woman, every year?

goldengirl71 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:19:50

Gum, sorry about your MIL and I hope you get reassuring news. Did you have a good birthday? What pressies did you get?

Maybe the 'rule' concerning anovulatory cycles is bullshit; I've given up remembering where and when I heard all this stuff - certainly not from anyone with any authority or I would remember. Tell me, though..fertile cervical mucus dries up as soon as we ovulate, no? If this is the case, and the lady on the Clomid thread had EWCM from CD13-16, would not that indicate that she ovulated on CD16 at the latest? Another lady on that thread said she keeps reading that the most fertile day to get pregnant is two days before ovulation. Funnily enough, when I got pregnant in January, our intercourse pattern followed this: -4 -2 and 0 (zero being ovulation day). I do wonder whether ovulation day itself is too hit and miss. I also read somewhere else that sperm needs to be in the female's body for ten hours before it is capable of fertilising an egg (just reading this back to myself makes me wince it sounds so infantile a theory blush)

I am getting panicky about never having a baby. Please don't go nuts at me saying I am still young. I don't understand why I haven't had a BFP in seven months (although, looking at my charts, my progesterone levels were pretty erratic until July and I don't believe they would have sustained a pregnancy). My ovarian reserve is very good (6.5 and 8.5 FSH in the last three months of testing) for my age. My uterus lining is 'nice and thick' (Linda the fertility nurse). My BMI is 24 and I lead possibly the most relaxed life you could wish for (except in my head). We have well-timed sex. I am teetotal and don't smoke. I exercise. Most of all I am worried sad

goldengirl71 Fri 09-Nov-12 23:33:54

I forgot to mention that DP has said we can afford IUI if the Clomid fails to result in a baby. I know the success rates aren't much higher than for natural conception but I like the idea that they would choose the best of DP's spasticated 3% morphology sperm and place it in exactly the right place at exactly the right time...especially in conjunction with Clomid. I love what it has done to my progesterone levels smile Can I have some opinions, please?

Bronte41 Sat 10-Nov-12 07:26:21

hopefulglum I just wanted to say that I hope you get good news regarding your mother-in-law. What a stressful time it must be.

Since the iud came out and we (read I) have decided to carpe diem and become shagging machines. Yesterday was cd14 so we dtd as we did the night before. And whilst I claimed to not want to start counting days, I clearly am! I also have diarised what day to test. So, yeah, there's that too!

We haven't told anyone IRL that we are trying. We only got married in July but I think most people expect us not to because of my age. DH's parents will be over the moon if it happens. Not sure my 13 yo will share their joy. We have raised it with her, in general terms, and her only worry was that any new baby would get her room! Priorities.

bluebird68 Sat 10-Nov-12 09:09:10

it isn't common to have a month where you don't ovulate- unless you have something wrong or are reaching menopause. But it isn't supposed to be a cause for concern if it happens on occasion. I guess Gps put out that its normal to have one or two because they don't want to be swamped with women who think they haven't ovulated- and its hard to prove without a blood test/ scan- flooding their surgeries. FWIW my female clued up GP told me a sustained temp rise was a very good indicator.

I agree with gum on what leads to a pregnancy. I got pregnant last year with very little EWCM (i later MC). I now have more- B6 was helped with that.

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 10:14:18

Bluebird, thanks for your imput and I'm sorry to hear about your miscarriage. My also-clued-up fertility consultant told me that charting temperatures is an archaic and fruitless exercise, although I suspect it is in some professionals' interests that we remain disempowered and uninformed about our fertility (more scope for them to demand that we 'need' IVF). Now I am on Clomid, the nurse is very much of the opinion that I should step away from the charts, trust what we see on the scan, SWI as dictated by the HCG shot and then wait for day 21 results. Sounds like a plan to me smile

Bronte, nicely-timed bed-rocking! Will you go for a hat-trick tonight? wink

Pre-Seed is my new best friend. I was really dry last night after removing a tampon for sex (I know, sorry) so out came the lube and it was like chucking a sausage down Blackpool prom. Nice.

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 10:15:23

*imput?!

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 10:16:14

Calibee and Diege, I miss your chit-chat x

hopefulgum Sat 10-Nov-12 10:26:37

Golden,I think you ought to go for the IUI if you want to.It might help to have the concentrated sperm all put into the right spot at the right time. At least if you do it you'll know you did what you could to get the baby you want. You are doing what you can, hang in there honeysmile

Thanks for your thoughts about MIL. It isn't great - she has slurred speech and her heart is playing up.They have her in the high care ward. DH and his siblings haven't heard much from doctors, it's hard to say what the prognosis is at this time. We'll have to wait and see. Poor DH is very worried. He's also feeling quite tired, so we are not going out,as planned,for my birthday. I don't mind, I've had a lovely birthday despite what happened to MIL.

My DH gave me a beautiful string of pearls and the kids showered me with gifts. Whilst I was out having coffee with a couple of girlfriends, my DD's cleaned the house - so nice to come home to it. Dh and I had a relaxed afternoon after going out for lunch.

I've just had a look at my charts Golden, and these were the patterns of DTD on my pregnancy charts:
-4,-2,0
-5,-3,-1,0
-5,-3,-1,0
-1,0

Each of them have in common that we DTD on ovulation day. But that doesn't mean it wasn't the -1 or -2 days that did the trick.

And I looked at other charts where I didn't get a BFP and there's all sorts of patterns, including sex on -2,-1 and 0 days. If it is sex on O day that did it, I won't be in luck this month. But everything I read says it is sex in the run up to ovulation, so the sperm is ready and waiting in the fallopian tube, when the egg is released,that is all important.

Incidentally, I have been charting since 2007 and have 45 charts! Blimeyshock

JBrd Sat 10-Nov-12 10:40:56

I guess it's very much a personal choice if and how you track your cycles. I was a bit dubious about temping at the beginning, but then quite amazed at how clear the pattern was. I guess a key point is to use it in conjuction with other methods, like OPKs (has anyone ever tried ferning btw?).
But I also see how easy it is to get caught up in it all, and end up fretting/obsessing all the charts and data. I can't help thinking that it's not very helpful for relaxing - which I still believe contributes to successful conception!

To that end I have decided to treat myself to some reflexology. Not so much because I believe that it can help with ttc (although I hope it might be a much-welcomed side effect grin), but because I just love it. I had it when I was pregnant with DS, as one of my increasingly desperate measures to get labour going - it did bugger all for that, but it was soooooo nice. So it's going to be a treat for myself, like a massage/facial/spa. Incidentally, the lady I go to is a registered midwife wink

golden I can understand the panicky feeling, I have moments where I feel the same. When we decided to try for kids a couple of years ago, I told DH that I didn't want just one, if we're doing this, we might as well go for it - both of us come from larger families, and I really really want sibling(s) for DS! And not too far apart either, I want them to play together and be friends, which I think is easier when they are closer together.
And when I see the age gap between DS and any potential sibling getting bigger and bigger, I find it difficult not to stress about it. Currently, we are at 2 yrs 3 months, and in my stupid head the stupid clock is ticking - together with my stupid biological one!

And why shouldn't you try IUI?! I'd say go for it if you can, why shouldn't you try everything that's available to you?
I think I'm going to take courage today and ask DH if he'd object to a fertility test - a home one to start with, to check what that gives us. He's a very laid back person, so I'm hoping he will be OK.

And thanks again everyone for your kind words a couple of days ago, when we were worried about DH's ball and testicular torsion - it all seems to have phased out, he said that it's still a bit sore, but no shooting pains anymore. I suspect that the fact that he got kneed in the crutch by accident by DS that day might have been a contributing factor! But - I'm still waiting for an excuse for his uncalled-for tantrum with me!

Mammoth post, sorry - can you tell I'm home alone, the boys have gone out into town...

bluebird68 Sat 10-Nov-12 10:49:46

i've read in several places that you are more likely to conceive from having sex the day before or even 2 days before ovulation, than on the actual day itself. Of course for most people we don't know exact time we ovulated so unless someone is having a scan and follow up blood tests we really can't pinpoint exact moment.
Trying to get in 3 shags over the 5 days you are most fertile would be very sensible. There is no way of knowing which day you conceived on unless you only did on the one occasion- and some research does come from that- I think from women getting pregnant when their partners were home on leave from war for just the one night.

bluebird68 Sat 10-Nov-12 11:02:47
goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 11:06:17

Gum, I so appreciate it when you trawl through your charts and come and tell us your findings. Thank you. I find the whole intercourse timing thing fascinating (had you not already guessed) and fret about it very much, especially as DP's ejaculatory issues preclude any rabbit-like shagging. I can't help thinking the same about sperm in situ immediately prior to ovulation being key...so why is DP insisting that we refrain entirely from DTD this month in the week before ovulation and go for it twice on the day?? Aaaaaargh!! I am already fretting.

I'm sorry you have the worry of your MIL's health. Poor DH. But what a wonderful guy!! PEARLS?!? shock You lucky girl.

JBrd, please don't apologise for 'mammoth' posts - it makes me feel a whole lot better about being a thread hog [hangs head in embarrassment]. So pleased your husband's pain has receded. Fancy being booted in the crotch! Sickening! Do enjoy your reflexology - if it brings some balance to your head I'm not going to knock it. I had to smile at your wanting more than one child at this age; I still want four and am holding out for two eggs to be release both of which split into twins. Not too much to ask, is it? wink

JBrd Sat 10-Nov-12 11:19:05

Gum - sorry to hear about your MIL! Hope things will improve soon, and that your DH can relax a bit. These things are never easy, having to worry about your parents is awful. Sending hugs!

45 charts, blimey indeed! I'm only just on my second one...

bluebird68 Sat 10-Nov-12 11:26:09

www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/nov/09/having-first-baby-at-51

i haven't read it all- very long, but thought it may be of interest.

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 11:55:01

Bluebird, thank you for your links...am going to read them now brew

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 13:54:32

Interesting: 'The rise in urine LH occurs on average about 24 hours before
ovulation, although there is significant variability in this (from about 16 hours to 48 hours before ovulation). Therefore, in a significant proportion of women, the time of highest probability of conception may have already passed by the time the LH surge is detected.'

Even more interesting: 'For many cycles, it is likely that the 2 days of “peak” fertility identified by the ClearPlan Easy Fertility Monitor do not fully coincide with the 2 days when intercourse is most likely to result in pregnancy. As illustrated in Figure 1, the 2 days with the highest probability of pregnancy will probably be the day before the LH surge and the day of the LH surge itself. However, the monitor identifies the day of the LH surge and the day immediately after as the days of “peak” fertility.'

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 13:55:52

Eeek!: 'This provides direct empirical evidence that the presence of vaginal
discharge from type E mucus [EWCM] strongly correlates with the probability of conception.'

Bluebird, thanks for this article.

goldengirl71 Sat 10-Nov-12 16:27:09

DP has just learned of the death of his biological mother - she ran away with a man called 'Cliff' when DP was teeny-tiny and returned to claim only him, the youngest of her four children. His father told her to fuck off and she was never seen or heard of again. DP's relationship with his father is non-existent since DP spent time in prison a few years ago (his father thinks alcoholics are work-shy imbeciles and a thoroughly bad lot). DP has just rung to say that not only has his mother died but that his father is not his biological dad - it's 'Cliff'! (who is also dead). What the f**k?! I wish I smoked sad

Bronte41 Sat 10-Nov-12 19:18:19

goldengirl71 Wow. That's almost too much for any one person to take in at once. As someone who has never really had any family per se (long story), I know the sense of loss of belonging. Hope your dh is ok.

Oh, and yes, hat trick, definitely!!!!

hopefulgum Sat 10-Nov-12 23:11:31

Oh Golden, how sad for your DH. And how confusing to learn that "Cliff" was his father, but he never had the chance to know him. I hope your DP is okay.

Bluebird, thanks for the articles. The one about timing intercourse was great.It really made things clear.As golden said, it shows how important EWCM is. I worry that I don't have enough of it, and pray that my DH has so many olympic swimmers that the lack of fertile mucus won't be too much of a bother.

When I got pregnant with DS,at 41, I was taking red clover tablets, which were actually for menopause, but the reason I took it was that red clover helps to support the production of estrogen, which in turn helps produce EWCM. That is why as we age, the fertile mucus dwindles. I am thinking I might invest in some red clover again and see if it makes any difference.

I have been thinking about getting a fertility monitor again,and have been having a bidding war on ebay for one, but the price is getting a bit high, so not sure what to do about that. The article gave it a good review, so I'm tempted. I wish I'd kept the one I had before, but I was trying to give up ttc at the timeconfusedIt is really interesting that by the time we have a LH surge it is getting a bit late. The monitor doesn't tell you the correct days of "peak" fertility, but it does identify the couple of days beforehand.So knowing this, the monitor would help pinpoint the best days to DTD.

It is Sunday here and I plan to finally get off my fat arse and get some exercise.I'll take a walk on the beach this morning and do a yoga class this afternoon.

shandybass Sun 11-Nov-12 04:15:15

Hi golden sorry for your dp's news. How awful and difficult to digest.
In answer to your queries I was 41 when I had dd and she was my third. It had taken 2 years of constant shagging, and 2 mc one mmc. Now it doesn't sound so bad but at the time I really doubted we were ever going to get there. Several times we almost gave up.
gum yes I love all the baby stage, she was sleeping through til 4 months. Since then it's been two or even three night feeds. Still with a busy other two dcs at least I get to wonder at her just by myself for a bit each night.
Sticky dust to you tina and good luck to you all.

CaliBee Sun 11-Nov-12 07:53:39

Hey all....I am still around.
golden poor DP...how is he feeling about it all??

gum cbfm's are expensive to run...a bit like my car lol. I gave up on mine due to my long cycles. Can you perhaps see one second- hand on ebay?? They can be reset for a new user.

So much seems to be going on on here....much love to all.

I had a week from hell last week with work. Feeling very very undervalued and having virtually run the place all last week, I received a snotty email at 4:45pm on Friday from my acting line manager (mine resigned 2 weeks ago)to say that 2 of my dispensing errors had got out of the Pharmacy recently (I do make errors when I'm stressed and we are understaffed....I've admitted that to them) and so they are severely curtailing my dispensing and checking duties whilst they recheck me. Strange how they waited until the end of the week to do it. If they had decided earlier on that week the department would have had to shut!!!! I'm mortified to be honest...total humiliation. So... that coupled with DP being away and all this ttc business (which none of them know about) has led me to feel a little "on the edge"..if any of you know what I mean? I have seriously considered going to GP and getting some time off...however am torn as this may have an effect if I decide to move on at some point.

I am now 10 days post Provera.....no af. Bizaarely I have noticed some ewcm yesterday and this morning. WTF?? I have stopped temping, no more peeing on sticks, no charting or poking at my body and the very stilted conversation with DP on phone has not even broached the subject of ttc. Suffice to say it seems to have been more to the back of my mind. He is home next Saturday until Monday morning and at this rate I could have af so even a good shag is out of the window. Raaaa gah and double poo.
So apologies for being all doom and gloom....but it is an explanation as to my absence for a few days.

somewherebecomingrain Sun 11-Nov-12 10:55:59

Bastards calibee one day I would like to write a book about workplace culture where it is considered ok to push people to their limits and then when, lo and behold, they have limits, somehow construe that as failure. There is something wrong in the system - in the private sector it's capitalism always seeking to grow profit for greedy shareholders. In the NHS where it sounds like u work I'm not so sure but
It sucks! All my sympathies. Xxx

CaliBee Sun 11-Nov-12 14:08:05

Somewhere...how you just worded that 1st sentence.... Absolutely, completely and utterly spot on. I may well just use that when the time comes. Thankyou x
I love my job and as far as is possible I want to progress and develop....I feel like a failure just now. My body is failing me and now I am made to feel like I have failed at work too.

goldengirl71 Sun 11-Nov-12 19:05:21

Just wanted to echo what Somewhere said to you, Calibee. You must try hard to rationalise what is going on around you and not be made to feel inadequate or in any way a failure. Too many people have been relying on you to deliver too much and you are only human. Just because you work in a pharmacy does not mean there is no room for human error. Fuckers. You cannot say yet that your body is failing you, you simply haven't figured out the logistics yet. Your Provera and my Clomid are not magic beans and if this shit doesn't work for you and me then we'll figure something out. Please stay close to those who love you and appreciate you xx

goldengirl71 Sun 11-Nov-12 19:49:57

Thank you, ladies, for your kind concern re DP. He is okay, if a little pensive. He is particularly crushed that his beloved (dead) grandmother may not have been his real one. Apparently they worshipped one another. Last night I tried to make him a posh supper to return to: lempngrass beef stew. It was an unmitigated disaster - lemongrass stalks floating like flotsam and beef tougher than old boots - so we ended up having a chippy tea hmm

Today was great, though! We decided to go on a 'proper date' to cheer us up and so, after trekking up three hills to wait for yet another bus that didn't turn up we eventually boarded the next one and went to the nearest town. We had Double Whoppers and milkshake in Burger King and then went shopping for me a jumper. This is where I start to rant: what the f**k is going on when you cannot find a quality jumper on the high street which doesn't end under your tits, have panels of lace or pictures of owls on the front? And why is everything tat? Why are we being asked to pay £40 for a 100% acrylic sweater which will bobble under the tits and down the cuffs before you've made the bus-ride home?

Anyway, I found one (80% cotton, 20% acrylic) in cream with the word GEEK across the chest in burgundy. Please don't ask me why . I hate slogens across breasts and I'm not a geek (not even in the ironic sense). I guess it feels self-deprecatory. Or something.

..then we went to the cinema and watched Argo with Ben Affleck - utterly superb - and I polished off a bag of chocolate chewing nuts and giant white mice. There was an hour wait for the bus home so we went into a pub (the first time in over two years!) and drank two pints of blackcurrant cordial in tap water (£2.35, the robbing bastards - and what's with the odd number for the price of two drinks? How can one cost £1.17 and the other £1.18?) On the bus-ride home we snogged alot (wince) and concocted A Cunning Plan to get me preggo this month - more of that tomorrow (I can hear you snoring).

Gum, forgive me if I've misinterpreted Bluebird's article but I think it suggests that fertility monitors may pinpoint the peak days too late - the day of the LH surge and the following day. This would be problematic for you, I would suggest, because you sometimes get a positive OPK on the day of ovulation. This leaves precious little time to have enough sex. I don't know what the answer is if you really don't know from month to month what day you ovulate. I get a positive OPK at least 36 hours before I ovulate and so there is time for more than one sex session (if DP's recalcitrant penis behaves). However, I can now see that any sex we have in the evening on the day of ov is just too late. Probably. This month I am having my HCG shot at 10am on CD14. This means I will ovulate at the earliest at 6pm the next day. DP has decided we will have sex on the evening of the injection and then again early morning on the day of ovulation before he goes to work. I am thrilled with this plan and, after abstaining for the five days beforehand, I am hoping DP's turbo-jetted sperm will do the trick smile

goldengirl71 Sun 11-Nov-12 19:54:27

Shandybass, thank you for replying. May I ask how long you waited after your miscarriages for a BFP?

Bluebird, I'd like to thank you again for posting links to those articles for us. I really appreciate people sharing knowledge in this way. Please will you think of us again if you come across stuff which is pertinent to us? Knowledge Is Power and all that.

goldengirl71 Sun 11-Nov-12 20:34:35

*slogan (sorry, I'm anal).

hopefulgum Sun 11-Nov-12 22:54:19

Yes, Golden, I also understood that about the fertility monitor, but the good thing about the monitor is it tells you when estrogen starts to rise in the run up to peak days. The monitor tells you it is "high" fertility days, then tells you "peak" when you have the LH surge. So if that article is correct, using the monitor and having sex on "High" days will have the sperm in place in time.
That's why I think it would be better than the OPK's alone.

Having said that, although I'm having a couple of wonky cycles (I'm fully aware that I'm perimenopausal) I know if I start having sex on day ten,every second day, then I'm in with a chance.And having sex on the day of the surge as well should cover the bases. However,I'm still looking at getting the monitor. I have to go and check on ebay as the one I'm bidding on will finish soon.

Sounds like your DH has a plan to get you upduffedgrin

goldengirl71 Sun 11-Nov-12 23:12:36

Your 'every second day' plan is a good 'un, Gum. I wish we could manage that, but then again, I consider my DP's sperm wasted if deposited more than two days prior to ovulation - especially as EWCM is becoming elusive sad

CaliBee Mon 12-Nov-12 07:58:23

Have to say I still don't understand why my CBFM showed highs from cd14 to cd26 then back to low when I didnt ovulate until cd32 last cycle. I'm afraid I lost my faith after that. Cost me a fortune in sticks it did lol.
Off to face the wrath soon at work. I am however armed with the appropriate policies naming humiliation and degradation as a form of harrasment and bullying. I hate that nervous feeling in my stomach which seems to have taken permanent residence lately.

goldengirl71 Mon 12-Nov-12 12:35:45

Best of luck, Calibee, be strong x

That CBFM sounds mental sad

Geminita Mon 12-Nov-12 14:13:02

Test

Geminita Mon 12-Nov-12 14:14:03

Hi ladies - new to this and have just joined today!

I take it that this thread is for women TTC in their 40's!?!

goldengirl71 Mon 12-Nov-12 15:40:05

Hello, Geminita, and welcome to the thread thanks Yes! We are all over 40 and trying to conceive! confused

Can you tell us a bit about yourself ie. age, children, criminal record (joking)?

JBrd Mon 12-Nov-12 16:47:27

CaliBee - hope it went OK at your work, that sounds so stressful! Fingers crossed they back off, it's the last thing you need right now!

golden - how is your DP holding up? That certainly is a lot for someone to take in, he must understandably feel rattled. Glad to see that you two are making every effort to lift your spirits, sounds as if you had a nice date night!

Welcome to the thread Geminita - yes, we are the quadragenarians on the rollercoaster ride ttc!

Ladies, I'm struggling to understand my temping chart - last month was textbook, nice temp rise, coinciding with EWCM, OPK and what not, then going down again before af arrived.
This month, however, it looks like the skyline of the Himalayas! Apparently, I ovulated on the day I got my positive OPK (I know that's possible, but still...), and since then, my temp is going up and down and up and down. Way below the coverline yesterday, way above today, and I'm only on (supposedly) 6 DPO. Anyone can shed any light on this?
I've also noticed my cycles becoming quite a bit shorter than they used to be - usually, I'd be pretty much excatly 29-30 days, now I'm hovering around 25-26, should I be concerned about that?

Told you I'm spending too much time looking at these flippin' charts...

Geminita Mon 12-Nov-12 16:54:35

Right, here goes - I'm 43 and will be 44 next birthday (June '13) and have no children of my own - purely due to spending too long with the wrong ones and not meeting the right one until a couple of years ago and we are now engaged and very happy!

My other half has been married before and has two children of 9 & 5. He made it clear to me right from the start that he didn't want any more children. Although I had always wanted a baby and thought that I would become a mum, I went along with this, as I really thought that I had missed my chance in life now.

As time went on and I have had to deal with becoming a step-parent - not always an easy thing to deal with and any other stepmums out there, would be great to hear from you too - the acceptance of never being a biological mum has got harder and harder to bear.

Sooooo, I came off the pill about 8/9 months ago, without telling my other half, really believing that nothing would happen - yes, I know it was wrong, but I really thought that if anything happened, it was meant to be - hadn't really thought about how I would approach other half if it did though!!!!!

To cut a long story short, when we came back from our hols in the summer, I was a couple of weeks late. I had resumed having monthlies after coming off the mini pill. I still didn't really think that I could be and I started bleeding after a couple of weeks - it was heavier than normal and didn't stop and when my Dr sent me for a scan, they weren't def sure, but thought I was miscarrying - I then had to own up to other half what I had done - he went ballistic at first, but since then, has totally supported me and is behind me trying for a baby of my own. The week after the scan was horrendous, backwards and forwards for internals/blood tests etc and the final blood test showed that the pregnancy hormone level had gone right down and showed that it was def a Missed Miscarriage and I then had surgery to remove the gestational sac and contents that was still attached to the inside of my womb.

Currently, my Dr has said try naturally for 6 months and then come back and see him to decide where to go from there. I am now panicking and after having researched the topic to death, am convinced that maybe my eggs are too old and any future pregnancies will end the same way - 1 in 2 result in miscarriage age 42 onwards! So, should I wait another 6 mnths or be getting my ovarian reserve tested now?

This is causing difficulties in my relationship, as other half thinks I'm jumping the gun a bit now and it is making me snappy with him and very tearful and I am withdrawing from the stepchildren too, leaving other half to deal with them over the last week or so, which is alienating me even more and annoying other half, as he cannot understand my reasoning - may I add that they are two beautiful children that I love very much and they have accepted me - but their mum & dad will always come 1st and I want a child that will think that of me! I want a crystal ball to tell me whether or not it will happen - but know that's impossible, but how do I carry on rationally and stop reacting so irrationally about everything!?!

Sorry if it seems like I have been ranting - hard to get everything out........

goldengirl71 Mon 12-Nov-12 17:19:28

JBrd, thanks, DP is coping well. Your erratic post-ov temps relate to your progesterone levels, which should remain nice and lofty until they plummet towards AF. I would suggest you go to your GP and ask for help to improve these levels of progesterone (without high enough levels we can't sustain a pregnancy). I take it your shorter periods are caused by shorter luteal phases? This would indicate a problem with your progesterone, too. Unless, of course, you didn't ovulate this month at all - despite your positive OPK. I would say get thee to the GP and ask for progesterone tests.

goldengirl71 Mon 12-Nov-12 17:30:13

Geminita, firstly, I am sorry you suffered your mmc - horrible. Secondly, I would run, run, run to the fertility clinic to get your ovarian reserve and progesterone levels checked. My ovarian reserve is really quite good but I haven't fallen pregnant in the eight months since my mmc. This ttc malarkey is the toughest thing I've ever undertaken - and I'm a relative newcomer compared to some ladies on this thread. The statistics make horridly depressing reading - 1% chance of conceiving each cycle if you are 43.

If I had the money and I was 43 I wouldn't waste any more time. I would go for IVF with donor eggs. That is purely my opinion and there will be others on here who will tell you that it is a matter of being patient for that golden egg. This is also good advice, however, the older we get the more realistic those statistics are beginnning to prove. Get as much help as you can and arm yourself with knowledge regarding your ovarian reserve etc. Good luck.

P.s..I am in awe of women who are step-mums without children of their own. My DP has a seven year-old twat son who, thankfully, I rarely see. Hats off to you for not only tolerating your step-kids but loving them too. They are lucky to have you in their lives.

goldengirl71 Mon 12-Nov-12 17:36:20

Geminita, to put things into perspective, there are two women I know of on this thread who have got pregnant and given birth over the age of 43. Jollster was 44 and Lolfactor was an incredible 46. Others have managed to get pregnant but have sadly lost their babies. We have four pregnant ladies on the thread currently - all in their very early 40s, I think. Tina is pregnant with twins after IVF with donor eggs.

TinaO99 Mon 12-Nov-12 17:54:52

hi geminita welcome to the thread, you'll find everyone here is very supportive and several of us (not me so much lol) have a wealth of experience and advice to give you. As golden says I am 9 weeks pregnant with twins and I'm 44, due to my eggs not being great I went the donor egg route as I'd been trying for a few years without success, thats not to say others of my age and older haven't been able to conceive themselves I was just unlucky (but very lucky now!)

I feel for you as a step parent, it's the other way round for us, my dh is step dad to my 21 year old daughter and has been through the mill over the years with her although they're great now. These will be his first biological children though so he's thrilled he's got a b.o.g.o.f

the ttc journey is unbelieveably hard and does part the most awful strain on your relationship, I got obsessed with it to the point I disconnected any friends on FB who were having babies as I couldn't bear to see other people having babies and I just thought it was never going to happen for me.

I'm so sorry about your mc, I think quite a few of us on here have had at least one. I would say if youre stressed waiting for 6 months talk to your dr and ask if he can do the tests now for you - it doesn't help to worry over things

I also found acupuncture helped to relax me and hynotherapy cds at night

goldengirl71 Mon 12-Nov-12 17:58:09

Geminita, I don't wish to hog the thread but you asked how to deal with your irrationality. It's a good question. For me - and this may seem a rather depressing, fatalistic view - the belief that none of us has the 'right' to happiness is what keeps me sane. Happiness, for me, is having a baby, but I know that, for whatever reason, I have left it a little too late to start gagging for one now. We are not supposed to be having babies in our forties - despite what some quarters would have us believe. If we manage to realise our dream we are very bloody lucky. I think wanting a baby and not being able to have one is one of the most painful things a woman can endure - but who said we shouldn't endure pain? This probably hasn't helped you - I can only tell you what keeps my head out of the clouds when I'm aching for that baby I may well never have.