TTC Super Ovulation part 3

(978 Posts)
Arianrhod Mon 08-Oct-12 08:30:07

Hey ladies -

There are a few of us who are ttc after mc's, however there will be ladies out there who are also ttc for the first time or second or third without success. If anyone is on, considering or had success on a super ovulation programme then do join us. How long did it take ? Did you try IUI with it.. ? Did you have PCOS?

Kicking this off and hoping some of you will join....

part 1 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1385998-TTC-Super-Ovulation

Part 2 here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/1475108-TTC-Super-Ovulation-part-2?pg=1

Arianrhod Mon 08-Oct-12 08:31:19

Hope everyone finds this smile

Arianrhod Mon 08-Oct-12 09:07:26

Apologies if anyone got a PM twice from me with the new thread, and equally if you didn't get one - my PM system threw a bit of a wobbly and was refusing to give me a 'send' button some of the time!

Technology ... sigh ... remind me again why I work in IT? smile

duggs1976 Mon 08-Oct-12 09:54:11

marking my place.. thanks Ari

mollieboo Mon 08-Oct-12 12:57:30

Thanks ari just saying I've found the thread. I got one email so it worked ok! Hope you're doing ok.

Hello to everyone else too x

Pebbles73 Mon 08-Oct-12 14:47:33

Hi all and thanks for starting the new thread Ari.

Hope everyone is ok on this miserable Monday!

Mel3062 Mon 08-Oct-12 16:33:10

Thanks ari, well I need gonal f 75 for day 2-7 then a scan. She said shed fax the script over as its cheaper but not sure who too or what it will cost!! Yikes. Back to opk for me this month and then guess pred!! Would it hurt to take it if not yet ovulated?? X

BellyD Mon 08-Oct-12 17:35:09

Just marking my place. Thanks for starting the new thread Ari.

Arianrhod Mon 08-Oct-12 17:47:31

mel They fax it to Central Homecare who will then ring you to arrange delivery. They charge £90 if you're just getting gonal-f, £110 if you're getting Ovitrelle as well. And did they say you have to inject days 2 to 7? Interesting - I do mine days 2, 4, 6 and 8 but with Letrozole days 2 to 6 as well. Are you going to just be on gonal-f on its own?

Mel3062 Mon 08-Oct-12 18:05:04

Thanks Hun yes their was no Letrozole as well mentioned. What is the difference between the two? Why are you on both? X

lemonsherbet Mon 08-Oct-12 22:00:40

Thanks Ari

How is everyone today

holldoll Tue 09-Oct-12 07:33:40

Isaw mr s yesterday and he's definitely lost weight! I'm now on the super ovulation programme. He's also ordered some bloods. Sorry to hear both Ari and Mollies news. Fingers crossed this works
Ari thanks for starting the new thread.

Arianrhod Tue 09-Oct-12 09:25:38

mel I'm on both because ... erm ... Mr S told me to? smile No, it was because although I did respond on Letrozole alone it varied from month to month; one month I got two good sized follies, the next just one. They're both ovarian stimulants but they work in different ways. On the Letrozole alone only my left ovary produced any eggs, the right nothing. On the combination of Letrozole and gonal-f both ovaries produce eggs. Mr S will put you on whichever combination of medication he believes will get the best response out of your body. Remember it takes a few cycles to get the best adjustment of medication for you, hence why they say they get the most pregnancies out of cycles 5-6 - by then, they should have worked out what combination gets the best response.

holl Welcome to SO smile

Mel3062 Tue 09-Oct-12 18:16:09

Thanks ari x

Pebbles73 Tue 09-Oct-12 21:48:02

Hi Holl wishing you lots of luck with the super ov programme and welcome to the thread.

How are you doing Ari? I bet you have been in research mode, hope you have found some useful info and are feeling ok.

How are you feeling Duggs, are you planning to see out your six months of super ov or do you think you will go for more ivf? Can't believe I only have one more round of super ov and then it's big pay out for ivf..,,.

Has gone v quiet on here over the last few days.

Waves to everyone else.

duggs1976 Tue 09-Oct-12 22:51:44

Hey guys... pebbles I'm going for my 4th or 2nd ( depending on if u discount pre infections back in feb time or not SO round. Last month was tough not sure i can handle another failed IVF or FET cycle so soon. Didn't realise just how much a failed FET would hurt. It's just as bad somehow. Anyway off for my mid cycle scan on Friday at NLC. How r others? Looking forward to our meet up in a few weeks. smile

holldoll Wed 10-Oct-12 06:48:27

Thank you for the welcomes, I'm going to be on a little break before I start - partner away.
Sorry duggs - Its so frustrating when these things fail. Fingers crossed for this SO cycle.
Has Mr S done amh's on you? He has requested this for me plus some basics not done before.
How have you all found taking the letrozole? I tried clomid last month and I did not like the side effects.
Fingers crossed for all x x

Mel3062 Wed 10-Oct-12 07:08:18

Hi all
welcome holl. Letrozole was fine Hun no side effects! Except I get spots?!
Im getting a line on my opk so hoping I've not ovulated yet and those follies have grown!! I need to see mr s for my next scan which I hope is in half term!! Gonal f is on its way.
Duggs I'm so gutted for you xx

Arianrhod Wed 10-Oct-12 11:47:36

Hi ladies

duggs I think any IVF failure is so very hard, considering you're doing the majority of Nature's work for her, you feel that all your body has to do is get the egg to implant and if it doesn't, it's almost like a double blow. Let's hope that SO has the answer for you finally. Good luck with the scan on Friday - are you on just Letrozole, I forget?

pebbles Don't forget what happened with abney - she did 6 rounds of SO, nothing doing, then her first TTC after being off SO she got happily pregnant. The body works in mysterious ways!

holl Letrozole had very little effect on me, other than making me get days of spotting long after AF ended and I think IIRC it makes me a bit hot at night, but that's about it, no real problems.

Me ... well still very deflated by the whole thing and still wondering where we go from here, if anywhere. OH says to wait and see what Mr S says ... but I got an email yesterday from Cheryl saying Mr S has had a quick look at my results and says there is a "slight problem" but will discuss in detail when I see him. A "slight problem"? I think he's completely discounting the LAD results, and just looking at the DQa match. I'd have said even that, with a 50% chance that any embryo we produce is identical to me, is a bit more than a "slight" problem, but maybe I'm just thick.

I've pretty much decided LIT is out of the question - I know it's a heck of a lot cheaper to have them done in Athens (something like £400 compared to £1500 here) but I don't know if I can face all the hassle, let alone the cost (by the time you've added in air fares, etc). And I don't think OH is keen on throwing yet more money at something that may or may not help anyway.

Mind you .. I've had a doh! moment this week. If anyone else is also taking agnus castus (as I have been for the past year), I just discovered that it counterreacts with Letrozole, gonal-f, and anything else that attempts to raise your FSH/oestrogen etc. Agnus castus works to balance your hormones, reduce FSH and oestrogen, promote progesterone etc. You can see where I'm coming from here already, can't you? Fantastic for sorting out your cycle and hormones, but if you're trying to increase certain hormones (as do Letrozole and gonal-f) it's quite probably the last thing you need! So I've stopped taking it for the moment, bit of a pain if it isn't having a detrimental effect on the Letrozole etc as it takes 3 months to build up in your system.

And incidentally I'm exploring soy isoflavones, which is supposedly a natural version of clomid but without the side effects. I may try it out for a couple of cycles once I'm no longer on SO, it certainly can't make things any worse, since it seems to do much the same thing as Letrozole. Can't take Agnus Castus with that either, obviously!

/waves to everyone

Pebbles73 Wed 10-Oct-12 13:38:41

Understand exactly how you feel Duggs re the ivf. You go through all the drug taking and injecting, feeling like crap with migraines during down regulation. The long journeys to the clinic for all the scans etc before work and is gutting when it is all for nothing. I remember thinking thank god after my first round resulted in a positive that it hadn't been for nothing only for it to turn into a chemical. Sending you a big hug and make sure you indulge in some vino!!

Holl generally letrezole was fine but one month had horrendous headaches that nothing would shift and some night sweats.

Ari you certainly have a lot to take on board but wait and see what Mr S says about it all. Have been thinking of you and hope you are indulging in anything that makes you feel better.

Interesting about the Angus cactus, has made me wonder if taking the starflower caused my bad follie result this month as previously have always had at least three and have over stimulated if anything. How annoying that I may have caused it to happen, think I will stop taking it!!

duggs1976 Sun 14-Oct-12 14:16:43

hey ladies.. this thread dropped off my watch list for some reason.
How is everyone ?

I had my 5th SO scan on Friday at NLC and only had one follicle.. not sure why...again like u pebbles started taking starflower oil this cycle doesn't seem to mix well perhaps?

Dr S said he'd put me onto 7.5mg letrozole for my 6th cycle in November.
I havn't bothered to update him on anything as I just need him for SO for now.

Big sigh.. oh well... whatever.

Who is left on this thread still ttc on SO programme ?

LJ71 Sun 14-Oct-12 15:51:06

Hi - I dropped off the thread too, there was clearly a blip as lots of us have not posted for a few days.

I have done one round of SO, conceived and mc'd. We are trying naturally for 2-3 months before we go back on it - largely down to financial reasons, but also trying to minimise visits to the clinic as it's so hard to come up with excuses to keep disappearing from work. xx

lemonsherbet Mon 15-Oct-12 06:50:33

I am also still here. Tend to not post much because feel everyone else other than a few seem to start Mr S programme and then it is BFP. Whereas I am no further on than I was over a year ago. Anyway my DH says in Nov if no luck we can go and see Mr G. I suspect that I will be like duggs and ari and must have something else wrong so am not wasting more money having some time out of doing SO till get to see MrG to see if that gives us answers.

duggs1976 Mon 15-Oct-12 08:18:15

Am hearing you loud and clear lemon think the ethical thing would be a warning - you'll be pregnant within 6 month if not probably worth getting checked for further tests - he just happily takes our £ each month. Hoping it doesn't come to that but moving forward with answers is better than hitting your head against the wall each month...

duggs1976 Mon 15-Oct-12 08:21:39

ari forgot to say I discovered soy isoflavones before all this dr s cr*p and am sure it was really helpful in regulating cycles. I only have one more SO cycle after this one so might have to research them again. . Def worth a shot if not on SO..

Arianrhod Mon 15-Oct-12 08:38:43

Hi ladies .. yes, still here, although not doing much this cycle due to MC.

duggs Sorry to hear about your scan but do remember that it only takes one follie, right?

lemon I'm hearing you - how many SO cycles have you done so far? I know they say most ladies that are going to, get pregnant on cycles 5-6 of SO but as you say, there may be other factors at work.

LJ Can't you just say you have a medical appt? That's what I do - you aren't obliged to go into details smile

duggs Well I took the soy isoflavones day 3-7 (now day 9) and I don't know about anything else but it's the first time in weeks I have slept like a log (most people seem to take them at night). I have had definite twinges in the ovary areas, don't know if that's coincidence but I don't usually at this time of the month, so I don't know if it's doing anything or not. TBH the only reason I took them now is that I seem to have delayed ov the cycle following any kind of miscarriage (from the usual CD14 to CD18), whether 'chemical' or otherwise, and I wanted to see if SI would do anything about that. I'm back to tracking ov via my Clearblue monitor, so I'll see what happens. Plus OH is away for a week from CD14 this month, so if SI doesn't bring my ov back to normal then this is a wasted cycle anyway.

Seeing Mr S on Wednesday afternoon for 'post-MC' consultation (and results from LAD/DQa blood tests, which I already have of course), not that I'm expecting anything new out of that, and then presumably my last SO cycle. Not expecting anything out of that either, to be frank. OH wants me to ask Mr S if there's any point us carrying on TTC, with so much against us. I'm half expecting the IVF speech again.

/waves to everyone

Pebbles73 Mon 15-Oct-12 13:30:44

I wondered where everybody had gone!!

Duggs it must be the statflower oil then as you always responded well previously if I remember rightly? Am annoyed with myself for taking it now and virtually wasting a month of super ov!

LJ I wish you lots of luck trying naturally and hope it happens for you.

Understand how you feel Lemon have been seeing Mr S since January and all that has happened is one chemical after ivf. I am different to the rest if you anyway as never had a natural bfp so if not pregnant this cycle or the next which is the last super ov will be back to ivf for me.

Pebbles73 Mon 15-Oct-12 13:37:41

Whoops didn't refresh the page before posting and missed your post Ari!
Hope your cycle returns to normal quickly and let us know how you get on with Mr S.

duggs1976 Mon 15-Oct-12 17:47:23

I'm with you pebbles this is SO round 5?ive just ovulated on if it doesn't work with my one follie it is 7.5mg for my last SO attempt ! If that fails then a few natural cycles as we will be in sydney for xmas and ny before second IVF round which I'm not looking forward to! Where r u now pebbles in cycle?

Pebbles73 Mon 15-Oct-12 17:56:41

I am 13 days post trigger shot and due to test Thursday. I am also on 7.5mg next month if this is a negative, have to say feel totally unpregnant!

Will be good for you to have a break before the ivf and have a drug free couple if months. Will be doing something similar as if super ov doesn't work we might be off to Thailand for Xmas. Are you going to ARGC next time?

duggs1976 Mon 15-Oct-12 18:09:17

Have pm'ed you!

lemonsherbet Mon 15-Oct-12 21:39:04

Ari just remind me did you see MrG or are you going to see him. I would be very interested to see what MrS says with regards to the results that you have. To be fair, I suspect it is the pred that stops me getting pregnant but with one of the highest NK count I do not feel that I can stop it so end up in a catch 22. I either stop the pred and have a chemical or take the pred and don't get pregnant. It is quite funny when you think about it.

Anyway good luck for Wednesday.

duggs if you are going to CARE is this for more IVF or is it for immune issues. I am not very familiar with them but know a lot of people going through IVF use them

pebbles so sorry about your chemical after IVF it must be heartbreaking. I keep telling myself that we will all eventually get there.

Sorry if my message sounded down this morning I am just waiting for AF to rear her head. Keep doing POAS and of course I know it is a BFN but think it may change--I must do something about my POAS addiction--

Mel3062 Tue 16-Oct-12 03:44:37

Yey hello ladies!! Missed you all.
Well after an awful month 5 I'm confused!! Just to remind you all I had scan day 11 just 2 small follies on one side, scan day 15 showed 8 small 4 on each biggest only being 9 mm. Told not to ovitrelle but do opks then steroids. Started opks and thought I got positive tues day 19 but continued with opks and keep getting a line :/ Sundays looked positive too day 24?! So continued to bed and took steroids from Sunday but of course af normally comes day 28 which is fri and now I'm to pot with steroids and haven't tested early as I've only had 3 days worth!! Don't know what to think. Hope follies have grown and ovulation just later. I have had a cycle of 32 last month. Argh!! Poor hubby is knackered!! Would steroids delay af? Should I just continue and see if af comes? Next cycle is clexane and back to mr s for scan which should be half term if he's not away?!
Waving and hugging you all. Confused. Com!! X
Oh and it's 3.44... Steroids!!!!

Mel3062 Tue 16-Oct-12 03:46:01

I ment gonal f not clexane!

Arianrhod Tue 16-Oct-12 11:57:30

lemon No I didn't go to see Dr G in the end, I just requested the blood tests I wanted doing from Mr S and he agreed to request them. Problem comes of course if something comes out of these tests that Mr S doesn't believe in - as with the LAD test - as you then can't get treated for it via Mr S.

I empathise with you totally on the steroid front, since I also believe steroids bugger around with my fertility. OH and I were discussing this the other day, we had more 'success' with getting/being pregnant before we started seeing Mr S - irony isn't in it! The problem is exactly as you say - a pregnancy without steroids is doomed for us anyway, but what when the steroids stop you being successfully pregnant in the first place? Catch 22, as you say. I honestly don't know what the answer is.

mel Steroids can indeed mess around with your cycles, but I can't say if that's what is happening with you. Hope the gonal-f does the trick for you!

pebbles crossing fingers for your Thursday testing smile

duggs and pebbles I must say I love the sound of your two's Christmas plans, how exciting! smile

Pebbles73 Tue 16-Oct-12 13:42:42

Lemon I think we are guilty of poas addiction! Although having said that I am waiting until official test day this month after confusing myself with a Ssinsburys digi one last month! I really hope your bfn changes, when is your official testing date as such?
Since your treatment with Mr S have you miscarried or not been pregnant at all?

Mel not surprised you are confused, I guess you will just have to wait and see if af comes....

Must be such a nightmare for those of you who got pregnant easily before the steroids, as it had always been difficult for me anyway not sure it makes any difference!

Ari just couldn't face another Xmas still not being pregnant or having a family of our own and doing the same thing....

Arianrhod Tue 16-Oct-12 13:55:05

pebbles Understand that! Have you thought of getting further testing, out of interest? In case there's something else that's preventing you getting pregnant?

Pebbles73 Tue 16-Oct-12 14:20:03

If the super ov doesn't work then I think I will ask Mr S to test for the things you had done before we pay out for ivf. I would then like to go to ARGC and maybe have the ivf there but will have to work out costs....

Mel3062 Tue 16-Oct-12 17:32:00

Thanks ladies ill wait it out and keep on steroids x still got a line tonight that's over a week now!

Mel3062 Tue 16-Oct-12 17:32:31

Pebbles we surely deserve it now!!

lemonsherbet Tue 16-Oct-12 20:42:57

pebbles to be honest I have no idea-according to ovulation sticks and CB monitor I have not ovulated this month. AF would be due Thurs/Friday if it follows its usual course. However, I have had lots of family issues the past month so it would not of surprised me if I ovulate at a different point to usual.

Ari I am surprised that Mr S agreed to do the tests, since he does not believe other things like hidden infection. I wonder if he is opening up to other immune problems being the cause of miscarriages. I imagine that even if your DH asks if their is any point continuing he will say yes.

duggs How are today?

Mel just to put this out there. I am now wearing my POAS addict badge. The OPK can act has a form of pregnancy test. Do you think the second positive if it persists could be a BFP? Sorry if I am giving false hope but you could be 7-8dpo and just saying it could be that.

LJ I am sorry about your work. That is one of the similar reasons we struggle with the SO. My work are so nosey that you can not just sneak off and come back. Added to the fact that I am not local to Mr S means taking a whole day off to see him makes life difficult.

Nothing new really to report here. Just thought I would say hi

Arianrhod Tue 16-Oct-12 20:55:17

lemon Ah, Mr S didn't order the hidden infections tests, I did that off my own back through the Serum clinic in Athens. I did tell Mr S I was doing it and did send him a copy of the results when I got them, but he did say he thought them not worth doing. The test he ordered for me at my request was for LAD and DQa, as well as karyotyping. He seems very dismissive of the LAD results which in my case are so very low as to be non-existent (this is bad), which is less than helpful.

Mel3062 Wed 17-Oct-12 06:00:57

I did hear of that but trying to be good and wait and not get hopes up ESP as it was not a good response. I've had cm still and during the night had tummy pains so who knows what's going on it seems just so late for ovulation day 27 today!! Oh we'll wel see and in meantime keep up the bd but hubby needed night off yesterday so hope mon and tonight is enough. Louise forgot to fax my gonal f! Mr s is free over half term for scan yey!
Good luck pebbles for tomorrow and everyone else who's having such a hard time of it all.
Thanks for being so helpful ladies xx

Pebbles73 Wed 17-Oct-12 13:22:32

If I was you Mel I would do a pregnancy test as seems rather late to be ovulating. Not trying to get your hopes up but might be worth checking..,,,

Must be tricky for you ladies who find it hard to get out of work. After my miscarruage last Octobet I told my manager about th treatment and stuff and she is really great about it.

Not holding out much hope for testing tomorrow, have had to wee a lot last few days but must be the pred or prob just imagining it! smile

Arianrhod Wed 17-Oct-12 14:37:54

Don't think extra weeing is a side effect of Pred, is it pebbles?? Soooooo ... smile Well crossing fingers for you for tomorrow anyway smile

Sat here at NLC feeling like I rather live here these days, I seem to be here so often. Wondering just why I am actually having this appt, since I know my test results and Mr S can hardly say anything enlightening about yet another CP. Rather thinking I'm wasting yet more money, ho hum.

Arianrhod Wed 17-Oct-12 16:33:45

Well, I take it all back, it was definitely worth seeing Mr S. And it's just reminded me again why I stick with Mr S.

He actually really surprised me. He said he'd discussed my LAD results with someone he works with and respects, Dr Nick Tsagiris in Athens (I know of him, quite a lot of ladies on FF go to him for LIT treatment), and would be happy to arrange LIT treatment with Dr Tsagiris if we felt we wanted it! Mr S doesn't believe it has that much of an effect himself (and he did say he hoped I didn't mind him discussing me with Dr Tsagiris - as if I'd mind getting another expert's opinion!) and Dr Tsagiris did say they have mixed results, LIT doesn't always make a difference, but Mr S is quite happy to arrange for this if we want it. And of course it's way cheaper getting it done in Athens. However, as I discussed with Mr S and as I already knew, because of the 100% DQa match between OH and me, paternal LIT almost certainly won't work (and Dr Tsagiris advised this too) - it would be a bit like trying to get your body to produce antibodies against yourself - so I would have to have donor LIT, and I'm really not comfortable doing that. I also asked the question of Mr S, if very low LAD levels were such an issue, would one of our babies have got to 9 weeks before dying, and his feeling is that it wouldn't.

But I was really surprised - very pleasantly so - that he was certainly prepared for me to have LIT treatment, and had in fact discussed it with someone who could do it for me.

He also spent quite a long time discussing things generally with me - NK cells and their likely effects (I had a few questions around this), whether it's worth us still carrying on, what we do next, etc etc - and seemed quite happy to talk things through. He said he really does feel it's worth us continuing (and I honestly don't believe this was anything to do with ££ here!), and that since SO is clearly working for me (this was my second pregnancy in 5 cycles) we should carry on for a few cycles more at least. He did suggest IVF again when I first started talking with him - not with DE, but my own - but he clarified this with it's not to help get me pregnant, since I appear to still be able to do that, but purely to be able to rule out chromosomal issues by only putting back eggs that are chromosomally ok. I explained IVF isn't ever going to be an option for us, financially, so at least we know that isn't something we're going to explore.

Anyway, won't bore you all with all our discussion but he did say he is very open to testing for things other than his 'standard' set of tests, he just doesn't want to waste people's money ordering all the tests under the sun just for the sake of it. I'm glad I asked him to do the extra tests, and if there were other tests that I felt worth doing I wouldn't hesitate to ask him to order them.

Not sure how OH will take the news that we're to carry on for a while longer, but I'll cross that bridge later!

Pebbles73 Wed 17-Oct-12 17:16:17

Just a quickie from me, just wanted to say I am so pleased that your appointment was so positive Ari and that Mr S thinks you are still in with a chance. So you will carry on with super ov and possibly have lit alongside or do you really not want to? You must be feeling much better about things?

Have had cramps all afternoon so think af is well and truly on the way for me so good luck to Lemon and Mel

Mel3062 Wed 17-Oct-12 17:47:58

Aw fab news ari more hope sometimes we can lose sight of how good he is when we just pay the bill!
Sorry to hear pebbles I had abit of tummy pain overnight sad
Not testing no no!!
Spoke to Louise gonal f comes tomorrow £135!!!! She said there was something new they were doing to help concieve quicker so that sounds interesting! X

FrankelSaysRelax Wed 17-Oct-12 18:08:17

Hello ladies, can I ask you a couple of questions?

I've just started ovulation induction treatment through Addenbrookes and am on Day 3 of daily Menopur injections. I wanted to ask, did those of you that have used the same injections, did you notice a quick increase in CM? This afternoon I've noticed a lot more CM than I'm used to and am paranoid that I might be over stimulating. My next scan is not until Monday and while I'm sure this is normal, it's my first cycle of treatment and I'm a control freak!

Also did you suffer any side effects? I've noticed I've been getting headaches over the last few days but am not sure if that is linked to the medication or more paranoia!

Arianrhod Wed 17-Oct-12 18:15:21

Hoping you're wrong about the cramps pebbles - I had major cramps the night before I tested this last time, but it wasn't AF. Still crossing fingers smile
Not going to do LIT, no, but will carry on with SO for a while.

mel Oh that sounds interesting - did she mention at all what else they might be doing? Mr S didn't mention anything to me today, it does sound interesting!

Hi Frankel - I'm afraid I can't help as I've never had Menopur, only Letrozole and Gonal-f. Maybe one of the other ladies might have experience with this.

Mel3062 Wed 17-Oct-12 18:15:31

My opk is a lot lighter tonight so must've been ovulation sad

Pebbles73 Wed 17-Oct-12 18:51:03

Sorry Frankel have also only had letrezole on the super ov.

Well suddenly couldn't wait a minute longer as home alone with a frer test and if course it was another bfn for me. I think that unfortunately the only thing that is going to work is forking out ££££££ for ivf.......

Sorry your test was lighter Mel but don't give up yet.

duggs1976 Wed 17-Oct-12 19:21:19

Ok frankie yes I had menopur in April and exactly as u described. ari so good news. just so i understand then is it dr s doesn't see DQ match as a show stopper because he doesn't believe in it or that it is an indication and there is a chance ? Is this causing your mc's then?
Sorry I didn't quite understand and am v interested!
And WHAT is this new quicker conception thing fekkin bring it on or I'm likely to gauge my eyes out with a pencil one of these days or heading for a divorce. sad pebbles r u doing gonal F ?

lemonsherbet Wed 17-Oct-12 19:34:58

Frankel welcome to the SO thread. I also do not know but a quick dr google search and it looks like it can cause chance to cm. I know I should not use dr google.

Ari am glad Mr S was so positive and open minded. I am glad it is good news.

Pebbles73 Wed 17-Oct-12 19:38:18

Yes also want to know about this quicker conception thing', need all the help I can bloody get!! Duggs I am just on letrezole and this last go will be on 7.5mg. Slightly concerned don't really need it it the starflower oil caused the problem last month and will end up with too many follies. Having said that will take the risk of multiple pregnancy over one follie any day.
Really cheesed off can't make the meet up next week, really don't want to work as not a nice place to be at the mo. sad

lemonsherbet Wed 17-Oct-12 20:10:18

Do we know where we are meeting? Can someone pm me

lemonsherbet Wed 17-Oct-12 20:11:17

PS is there some badge or identifying handshake that we are meant to do. Just worried am going to walk up to random people going are you pebbles

Mel3062 Thu 18-Oct-12 03:10:38

Wish the meet was week after in half term sad nevermind one day...
I'm seeing mr s week after next so ill keep you informed....
sad pebbles, what did the starflower do? I got too many small ones without taking that so I think it can just happen sometimes. I hate the bfn or af sign with such a passion it's all so hard sad
Hoping rainbows is ok too.
Sorry frankel I've just had Letrozole but start gonal f soon. It was funny as its getting delivered to work and my friend wanted to give me it I just had visions of laying on the staff room floor!! They all know my cycle better than me!!
Bloody 3.06 hubby's just left to work away tonight bloody steroids.
Aw duggs it's so hard isn't it sad
Xx

duggs1976 Thu 18-Oct-12 05:58:16

Oh am thinking about the meet up I'd rather meet up with ladies on here in similar boat as nice as it is to meet pred ladies it would be so nice if we could meet. . Pebbles and mel would u prefer to push it back perhaps?

Chasinrainbows Thu 18-Oct-12 07:13:34

Hi Mel , thanks for thinking of me. I'm ok so far . Had a scan on Monday and saw the heartbeat. I'd had some bleeding ( just pink) on the Sunday night so I was worried. Currently at 6+5 so still a few milestones to pass. Hope you are ok? Waves to everyone. Sorry I've not been around much. Work has been full on so it's been work then bed sad

Pebbles73 Thu 18-Oct-12 13:40:02

I would live to be able to meet with you Duggs is just hard to say a date at the mo as font know how many Saturdays will need to work. Shall we see what dated works for Mel and I will sim for that? So sorry to sound so vague.

Mel because I have pcos (as does Duggs) we tend to over stimulate if anything with this kind of treatment and gave shears had at least three good size follies. The only thing I changed this month was taking the starflower oil and ended up with one follie as did Duggs so am pretty sure it might be down to that.....
Hope you get some sleep tonight!!

Rainbows you must have been relieved to see a heartbeat! Hope all goes well for you.

Pebbles73 Thu 18-Oct-12 14:08:09

Sorry for all the mistakes, on the iPhone!

duggs1976 Thu 18-Oct-12 14:13:39

interesting thing here as I emailed Louise (she is the loveliest person I've encountered during this whole hiddeous 3 year nighmare) and she mentioned Dr S has a new test he is using TNF Alpha - (which isn't new to Dr G and Ndwke etc) so it seems some of the other tests are proving themselves slowly to dr S. Anyway, Pebbles have you thought about this if Dr S seems to be coming around testing this ?

Don't worry if you are working weekends, it is difficult to get everyone on a fixed date.

Mel3062 Thu 18-Oct-12 17:15:21

Awe rainbows how lovely keeping fingers crossed.
Please don't change arrangements for me I'm sure they'll be another but that's so kind. Shame I'm so far away.
Wow about the starflower!!
Duggs it must be the same test they'll be telling me?!
Work and bed sounds like my life!!
X

Mel3062 Thu 18-Oct-12 20:33:52

Well after niggles and backache and saying no more opk... I did and there's still a line bizarre!! Wish I knew how to post a pic!

Arianrhod Thu 18-Oct-12 21:37:57

Mr S mentioned to me yesterday that he's now starting to use the TNF-alpha test routinely for those who are having difficulties getting pregnant, rather than for those who are recurrent miscarriers. Maybe this might help?

Arianrhod Thu 18-Oct-12 21:39:09

Btw remember choccy had the TNF-alpha test with Mr S.

Arianrhod Thu 18-Oct-12 21:46:28

Whoops, missed your question duggs. No, it's not the DQa Mr S doesn't believe in, he does recognise that could cause problems. However it should just be a case of immune suppressant since it is the immune system that will try to kill off any DQa match. It's LIT treatment that Mr S isn't convinced makes a difference, but even so he was prepared to arrange it for me if we wanted to do that. I also spoke to him about taking Clexane from BFP and he's very happy to do that, he is prepared to throw everything at it .. assuming we ever stay pregnant long enough to warrant taking it, of course!

Mel3062 Thu 18-Oct-12 22:57:11

Posted pic on opk photo club babycentre if anyone can spare a look x

duggs1976 Fri 19-Oct-12 08:14:53

Mel just checking you know most opks always have a line it just has to be as strong or stronger than the control line! Clear blue have a smiley face when u ovulate so there is no doubt. Haven't seen photo as on iPhone but just thought I'd better mention as ovulation will be a surge that happens over 24 -36 hours then it is over and this is what we look for! Sorry if you know all this and you have a permanent strong line if so that would be a bit strange and confusing!?

duggs1976 Fri 19-Oct-12 08:16:58

Well that's good ari I'm sure if it was not worth it he'd say as it won't look good on his statistics and would be un ethical. What a roller coaster!

Pebbles73 Fri 19-Oct-12 13:30:44

That sounds like something I need testing for seeing as it is so difficult for me to get pregnant. I never thought life would be shitty enough for me to take years getting pregnant only to then miscarry or be a chemical pregnancy. Ahhhh!!!
Currently waiting on af which seems to be delayed this month, must be cyclogest I took this month delaying it.
Was feeling really down yesterday say oh has booked a nice meal this evening and we are going for a few drinks first.

What cycle day are you on now Mel?

lemonsherbet Fri 19-Oct-12 18:31:37

Feeling a bit low, I got a BFP a couple of days ago and was feeling good yesterday-had the sore breasts and nausea. Today loss of pregnancy symptoms and getting period like cramps. Am still testing positive and no bleeding yet. Have a bad cold at the moment and part of me wonders if that triggered my immune system to be more active and so attack this pregnancy.

Sorry about the lack of personal messages.

Mel3062 Fri 19-Oct-12 19:09:51

Aw lemon fingers crossed :/
Pebbles I'm on day 29 x

Mel3062 Fri 19-Oct-12 19:47:49

Duggs yes I realise thanks about opks I've tested since a week last Sunday so nearly 2 weeks and got a line on each one and various positive lines its strange as not had ovitrelle this month and can't see me ovulating cd 29!?! My longest cycles been 32 x

Pebbles73 Sat 20-Oct-12 09:56:32

Wow bfp lemon! Feels strange saying this but hope the nausea has come back today if you know what I mean. Remember everybody always says the pred masks symptoms anyway.

Am going to do some research today on ivf at the Serum clinic in Athens. Just wondered if anyone on here knew of anyone who had been there?

lemonsherbet Sat 20-Oct-12 14:00:12

pebbles sorry do not know anyone who has been to Athens. Have you tried the infertility board part of mums net? The ladies there are usually very good about the different clinics

Arianrhod Sun 21-Oct-12 16:03:14

lemon Very cautious congrats and hope some reassuring symptoms come back!

pebbles Serum is who I did my infections testing through and if I were ever doing IVF I'd definitely think of,going there. Quite a few ladies on Fertility Friends go to Serum, in fact I think there's a whole sub forum devoted to this. Yep, here it is - lots of info and people to ask on here www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=372.0

HTH!

Arianrhod Sun 21-Oct-12 16:06:20

Agate's excellent Serum FAQ very well worth a read www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=372.0

Arianrhod Sun 21-Oct-12 16:07:06

Hmmm Silly iPad didn't copy the link - try again www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=274114.0

lemonsherbet Sun 21-Oct-12 19:21:28

Line was getting stronger-coming up immediately but have started spotting. Was just thinking with miscarriage number 1 how reassured I was by all the stories I was bleeding but it was all OK. This being pregnancy number 5 now know in my case not likely to be.

Mel3062 Sun 21-Oct-12 19:24:16

Aw honey so sorry to hear this fingers crossed its just usual pregnancy spotting for you xx

Arianrhod Mon 22-Oct-12 12:11:06

lemon How are you doing today?

pebbles Are you thinking of doing IVF at Serum then? I've heard nothing but good about Serum, the flights are a bit of a pain but I understand they're excellent - and a lot cheaper!

Nothing doing here, with his usual timing Mr Sod and his law has come into effect in that my CBFM tells me I'm going to ovulate tomorrow, but OH is away until Wednesday night (from last Saturday). First natural ovulation in 5 months (due to SO) and he's away. Fantastic timing sad

/waves to everyone, hope you all had good weekends!

Mel3062 Mon 22-Oct-12 18:56:08

Aw hun hope you catch it Wednesday it's always the way! X

FrankelSaysRelax Mon 22-Oct-12 19:09:19

Hello all, sorry for not coming back to you sooner & thanks for the replies.

I had my scan today and, after 7 injections, I am borderline over stimulating. I've got a 10mm follicle on my right ovary and a 12mm and 13mm on my left. My Clinic (NHS) will stop the cycle if you out up 4 or more follicles over 10mm.
The nurse spoke to the consultant and they've advised me to cut my dosage in half (from 75ml to 37.5ml) for today and tomorrow before having another scan on Wednesday. She thinks it is likely they will cancel the cycle but the good news is that it won't count towards one of the 3 I get free on the NHS.

Has anyone else experience of putting up too many follicles? Am I a fool to hope that 1 might shrink back down?!

lemonsherbet Mon 22-Oct-12 19:51:17

Am pretty sure am having miscarriage number 5. This one felt like a proper pregnancy not like the chemical pregnancy in April. I am just not sure where I go from here. Sorry this is such a me post.

Ari meant to say remember the sperm can live for 5 days so all may not be lost.

Mel3062 Mon 22-Oct-12 19:54:02

Aw lemon I really am praying for you x

Arianrhod Mon 22-Oct-12 20:33:38

lemon I'm so sorry, is it the spotting that makes you think this? I really hope it's not, but you obviously know your body best. Are you taking Pred? Remember it masks pregnancy symptoms for a lot of ladies.

Nice thought about sperm living up to 5 days but you know, given my track record of miracles just not happening, I'm not holding my breath smile

lemonsherbet Mon 22-Oct-12 21:45:15

It is the bleeding and it is just following the pattern of miscarriage 3 and 4. The spotting is gradually getting heavier (TMI I know). I just feel like I have felt in all my previous miscarriages (other than the late one), it just feels it is following the usual course. I really think I can write a book on miscarriages. Think I am going to see Dr G in November-DH also agrees. I suspect I have very high NK cells and something else. I figure Mr S plan works very well for some people but have been with him for over 1 year and feel it is just not working for me.

Pebbles73 Tue 23-Oct-12 18:30:14

Thanks so much for the info Ari you are a sweetie. So sorry about the crap timing for you this month, is so crap when that happens. sad

Lemon so sorry to hear you are bleeding, it's all such a nightmare! You never know though lots of people bleed and turns out to be ok.

Frankel I have over stimulated during ivf a couple of times and unfortunately once the follicles are there they won't go back down. Getting the drug dosage right is always a bit of trial and error.

Mel3062 Wed 24-Oct-12 08:09:17

Hi ladies,
Well I don't know what my bodies doing I'm
Day 34 today and no af and bfn so guess I've ovulated extremely late this month and stopped dtd too early sad I'd booked my scan next week whilst I'm off so now ill have to cancel it bloody typical that means ill need a day off now sad ARGH!!!!!

Mel3062 Wed 24-Oct-12 19:32:20

Also day 10 of steroids so don't know if to stop them or not as could've ovulated last thurs??

Pebbles73 Thu 25-Oct-12 13:30:23

It's never simple is it Mel! I don't know what you should do the steroids but try emailing Louise for some advice as she is really helpful.

Well I am on my lady super ov and taking 7.5mg letrezole which us giving me horrible night sweats and restless nights. Havecmy follie scan next Wednesday at 5:15.

Is very quiet in here, hope everyone is ok.

Arianrhod Thu 25-Oct-12 13:58:19

pebbles Letrozole makes me hot at night too, fortunately it's only for a few days. Are you considering IVF (again) if this cycle doesn't do the trick, hoping of course that it does? And if so, thinking of Serum, or your original clinic? (nosy, aren't I .. smile )

mel I'd echo pebbles, I don't know what to advise re the steroids but Louise is definitely the person to ask.

Very quiet around here, maybe people are hibernating early for the winter .. I know I'd like to! smile

Mel3062 Thu 25-Oct-12 14:49:39

She said steroids can delay af so good job I stopped them and to test again in a few days xx

duggs1976 Fri 26-Oct-12 19:03:05

Ladies some of us from pred thread are meeting tomorrow check out pred thread think 4 of us If u fancy it 12.30 at strada on south bank smile LJ71, brown stag a new last swlondonnanny and me. smile

duggs1976 Sun 28-Oct-12 07:38:44

lemon how are you doing? are you still going to see dr G ?
Pebbles what about you .. how are you?

AF arrived on Friday for me..loud and clear.
Just started 7.5mg letrozole for my final SO cycle...

Nice meet up yesterday...missed some of you I was totally late as trains and tubes were hideous.. but still what SO cycle are people on now?

Pebbles73 Sun 28-Oct-12 10:06:06

Hi all, so sorry I couldn't make it yesterday. Hope you all had a good natter about stuff that you can't talk about with real life friends.

Ari don't think you are nosey at all smile. I have only ever got pregnant with ivf so unfortunately I think us the only way forward although will speak to Mr S about having done more tests done first although us more expense! Not going back to my original clinic as they don't really deal with immune issues so looking elsewhere. My ideal choice would be ARGC but they are so expensive and have read stories if people spending £10,000 and £15,000 so not sure at the mo. Sthens seems good but they don't publish thier sucsess rates and may sound silly but after embryo transfer don't really want to do anything other than lie on the sofa at home! Will also check how much Mr S charges and get some info which they forgot to give me last time. Can't believe am on last cycle of super ov
already, hope I get lots of follies.

Duggs I wish you luck on this cycle and hope you get lots of follies. Watch out for those night sweats!

Lemon I hope you are doing ok, have been thinking if you.
Any sign of af yet Mel?

Mel3062 Sun 28-Oct-12 11:24:12

No af yet day 38 but got a bfn today sad got migraine since yesterday so she should be on her way, bloody hurry up!!!
Good luck to everyone xx

lemonsherbet Sun 28-Oct-12 16:53:55

Hi all, am doing OK. I saw a male GP who had no problems referring me on the NHS to a recurrent miscarriage clinic. Previously when I have seen a different GP they have said no because of the late miscarriage. So am planning on seeing Mr G after that. Since it may save me a bit of money. The appointment even came through really fast-middle of November. I need to rearrange it because I am away that week, but was really impressed. Have always seen the female GP but he was really sympathetic and thought it was important that all the basics were done before I went off to see another specialist!! (Best experience I have ever had with my GP surgery)

Mel am sorry that SO seems to have messed up your cycle this month hope it sorts itself out

Pebbles I know that duggs had ivf in the past although it ended in miscarriage. Thinks she had intralipids prior to embryo transfer. Think that may have been with Mr S so she may be able to give you more details. I have heard CARE mentioned a few times, not sure if they are any good. I have not had IVF-just thinking what has been mentioned in the past.

Duggs do you think you would try IVF again if this cycle does not work? or do you think you would ask Mr S for further cycles of SO. If I am right some of the cycles were when the DNA fragmentation was not diagnosed or the infections so surely they do not count or am I being thick?

Ari I know a little while back you were talking about LIT. At present am reading a book called "coming to term uncovering the truth about miscarriage" it mentions there that the group receiving LIT had a higher miscarriage rate than the placebo group. Although have only just started reading it I am finding it an enjoyable book (if that makes any sense). The authors wife suffered with recurrent miscarriage. It got a lot of personal stories in each section.

Frank hope you are doing OK.

brownstag Sun 28-Oct-12 18:48:37

Hallo all; I am sneaking back onto the superovulation thread just for this cycle. I can't afford any more SO with Mr S at the moment so I'm taking good old-fashioned Clomid from the NHS, which I've had knocking around the cupboard for ages, hoping that the three months of DHEA I've been taking will be enough to counteract its anti-oestrogenic effects. CD 5 today.
I rang my NHS consultant's secretary to ask if it's okay that I'm taking the Clomid alongside DHEA without a follicle tracking scan, as is the practice in this trust. She wasn't there so I left a message. The prospect of multiples might be enough to squeeze out a free scan on the NHS, who knows? Would be very interested to know what's going on in there after the DHEA.

A question for people taking hydroxy: have you had any more infections than usual since being on it for three months? I have had an outer ear infection, then labyrynthitis and now laryngitis and I've never had any of those in my life before. Probably just the time of year though.

brownstag Sun 28-Oct-12 18:50:20

Sorry, that should have said:
... have you had any more infections than usual? Since being on it for three months I have had an outer ear infection ...

gransol Sun 28-Oct-12 21:19:36

Hi all been following thread for a while but never written anything until now
I have just finished 6 months of SO with dr s on 50mg clomid as he said for my age that would be better as one of his younger patients (30) has never took us this long to fall naturally so totally confused as to why with clomid, ovitrelle and timed sex it never worked. Now taken a two month break as been on steroids too long
I have had seven very early loses never seen a heartbeat, not sure what to do next, Dr S says after break try SO again in the break nhs has agrred to dye test and a lap fingers crossed this helps, would welcome hope you dont mind me joining.

Mel3062 Mon 29-Oct-12 07:15:04

Welcome ladies x I've heard good things about lap and dye so fingers crossed itl work for you x

brownstag Mon 29-Oct-12 07:40:01

Welcome and good luck with the laparascopy gransol. I'm in the same boat, waiting for a dye test and laparoscopy and I'm pinning all my hopes on it as I haven't had a BFP since having my DS and he's nearly 4. Of course I am ancient though. My NHS consultant said just because my tubes were open 4 years ago there's no reason to assume they still should be. When I Googled it, it seems tubal abnormalities are the top reason for secondary infertility. That had never even occurred to me. So obviously things can happen to tubes when you're least expecting it! The only down side to that is, if they do find something wrong with your tubes and they open them, it isn't always a magic cure and some people still need IVF. But at least the mystery would be solved.

brownstag Mon 29-Oct-12 09:24:45

Ari, what treatment are you having now, if any?

Arianrhod Mon 29-Oct-12 09:55:42

Hi ladies - welcome gransol, I recognise your name from the Pred thread a while back, am I right? And hey brown /wave .. and you think you're ancient? lol I'm the old lady of the thread, I think! smile Interesting to hear of you both looking to have lap & dye, and also interesting that I've not heard of Mr S suggesting this to anyone, wonder why?

Your question about hydroxy brown - me personally I have had no side effects at all, and no infections at all. Given that hydroxy is an immunoregulator, which should balance your immune system down to 'normal' levels (theoretically) then perhaps it's doing what it should for you brown, if you're finding you're getting infections (meaning your immune system isn't overactive)?? Just a thought.

pebbles Doesn't sound silly to me that you want to put your feet up at home and take it easy after transfer, sounds exactly what I'd want to do if I were doing IVF too. I've heard really good things about Dr Gafar at NLC, I think he's the one who actually does the IVF treatment, isn't he? He came from ARGC, Mr S seemed very impressed with him when we were discussing things recently. I understand they do chromosome testing on the embryos there too.

duggs Fingers crossed for this SO cycle, hope the 7.5mg Letrozole does the trick!

lemon It's great to hear you're getting some proper treatment from your GP surgery, and isn't it interesting that it took you seeing a male GP to get this - you would think a female GP would be more understanding, wouldn't you? And thanks for that bit of info on LIT treatment - I've never heard of it possibly causing more miscarriages, seems a bit odd really.

Me, I'm now heading into cycle six on SO, having got 'pregnant' twice, cycles one and five, albeit both ended as early miscarriages. AF is due on Saturday (ish - it's always a little bit unpredictable in the cycle following a miscarriage), and then Letrozole/Gonal-f again. If that cycle doesn't work I will be doing more SO cycles, since Mr S says there's no reason why I can't carry on, at least for a few more cycles. Still chasing that good egg, I'm sure it's in there somewhere! I'm also going to do what I did last cycle, just take 10mg pred from OV rather than 25mg to avoid the bad side effects on my general fertility.

/waves to everyone

Mel3062 Mon 29-Oct-12 10:53:01

That sounds a good idea ari think ill do that with the pred too as this cycles v delayed :/ x

brownstag Tue 30-Oct-12 16:50:57

Yes, it is interesting that Mr S never seems to suggest anything but carrying on with superovulation treatment as far as I can tell. Has he ever suggested IVF to anyone? It sometimes seems that you have to do all the thinking yourself, as I really had to push with the NHS to see that consultant and was so relieved when he suggested something else, and he seemed more than happy to help once I got there. If it turns out my tubes are blocked I wil have to look back on the last two years with a sense of irony, all those rollercoaster two-week waits, all those drugs, all those tests, etc.
Ari, was that your idea with the 10mg, or did Mr S suggest it? I think even I could handle 10mg ... Good luck for Saturday.
Coopde, if you're on here, I have ordered Dr Beer's book. We'll see what can of worms that opens up! I seem to flit from one theory to another; currently DHEA and 'proximal disease' but I'm sure it'll be something else after reading it.

Arianrhod Tue 30-Oct-12 18:05:22

Yes Mr S has suggested IVF twice to me brown and the 10mg was my idea after researching what ladies are often given on the IVF boards. I also have the Dr Beer book, read it cover to cover when I first booked to see Mr S a year ago August, to see what I was getting into smile. Def worth a read.

Pebbles73 Tue 30-Oct-12 18:28:47

Hi Gransol and Brownstag and good luck for the laparoscopies, hope it gives you some answers.

Thanks for the info Ari re Mr Gafar, I saw him for a scan when Mr S was away and he seemed very nice. How are you feeling about everything? I am feeling a bit down as a year ago today since my miscarriage at 7wks and still not pregnant again and wonder if i ever will be! sad

Hope everyone else is doing ok, anyone at NLC on Thursday?

Mel3062 Tue 30-Oct-12 18:34:57

Aw hun you will, I know how you feel my last would of been due Xmas day. I'm still day 40 no af but a few pains sad
Update from nhs appt-
Had tests after my 16 week loss at this hosp then miscarried 3 times more at diff hosp, 1 8 weeks and 2 5 weeks. Had usual tests there then referred back to prev hosp today.inbetween I privately paid for nk cell test which I have v highly.
Hospital said when preg ring straight away and they'll do a mix of hcg injections and heperin to help prevent later loss. I feel pleased that the nhs are wanting to help me and give a plan!! just shows you ladies to get different opinions as my consultant did! But now do I go with this as well as nk treatment?! Will mr s like the fact I can get free heperin? X

Mel3062 Tue 30-Oct-12 18:48:25

Aw hun you will, I know how you feel my last would of been due Xmas day. I'm still day 40 no af but a few pains sad
Update from nhs appt-
Had tests after my 16 week loss at this hosp then miscarried 3 times more at diff hosp, 1 8 weeks and 2 5 weeks. Had usual tests there then referred back to prev hosp today.inbetween I privately paid for nk cell test which I have v highly.
Hospital said when preg ring straight away and they'll do a mix of hcg injections and heperin to help prevent later loss. I feel pleased that the nhs are wanting to help me and give a plan!! just shows you ladies to get different opinions as my consultant did! But now do I go with this as well as nk treatment?! Will mr s like the fact I can get free heperin? X

brownstag Tue 30-Oct-12 18:49:04

Thanks Pebbles.
Sorry to hear you're feeling down about it all. I feel the same lately, or at least rather hopeless. Sometimes I think I am doing all this just so that once I'm menopausal I will know I tried everything, but without much hope any more that it's ever going to happen. (Sorry to muscle in on your question to Ari!)
Ari, have you ever had any IVF? I always said I wouldn't have any, but I seem to be changing my own goal posts all the time.

brownstag Tue 30-Oct-12 18:56:35

Mel, I would have thought yes, to use both treatments, just to let both parties know what you're doing. I don't think Mr S will mind about the free heparin; when I told Louise that we were skint she and Mr Shehata were quite helpful in pointing out ways that I could reduce the costs where possible, such as getting my day 1-3 test done at my GP's.

Pebbles73 Tue 30-Oct-12 21:34:05

Sorry still no af Mel, hope it appears sooner rather than later!! Is great the nhs are helping you and agree with Brown that you should go with both treatments. The way I see it the more help the better.
It's hard dealing with these significant dates and such a help having people on here who understand how it feels.

It's tough isn't it Brown trying to stay optimistic, the whole thing really wears you down. I still can't get my head round the fact the fact that it probably won't happen unless i win the lottery and can just keep on having ivf until it works........

Arianrhod Wed 31-Oct-12 08:27:07

Understand it hard to being optimistic, that's exactly how I feel too. Much like you pebbles, I feel my last proper pregnancy was so long ago (July last year, got to 9 weeks before baby died) with nothing but early miscarriages since, it feels like I'm never going to manage to get 'properly' pregnant again and maybe I'm just kidding myself - not to mention throwing away so much money on all this treatment that I just don't have. OH pays for a bit, sometimes, but it's mostly down to me, and I just don't have £320 to spare every month, and that's just for SO sad

brown Truthfully I would do IVF like a shot now, if I could, just for the array CGH test to be able to rule out chromosomal issues. But I am never going to be able to afford IVF, ever - OH won't even consider it, we just don't have that kind of money (my DD is in private school, and school fees are horrible sad ). So, unless like pebbles wishes we win the Lottery, it's the natural way or no way for us.

mel I don't think for a second that Mr S will mind you getting free heparin, of course not, and it's fantastic that you have NHS support - wish they were that accommodating around here, I was told after my third miscarriage that I most likely wouldn't even be seen at the RMC at my hospital because I already had one child! That's why I didn't ever bother even going the NHS testing route, I went straight to Mr S.

pebbles Do you think you will do IVF again then, and have you decided where? I know it's a rough thing to put your body through, but you know, if it's your best shot then it's worth doing. Have you had the conversation with Mr S about why you're not getting pregnant now - or have you still got to have a review with him? There may be something else going on there that still needs to be found?

Mel3062 Wed 31-Oct-12 09:59:49

Aw ari that's awful to hear sad I must admit my local hosp weren't much help that's why they referred me! I feel cross I've had to suffer 4 times to get here sad ari it's understandable that you keep going but as time goes on its bound to get on top of you, it does me and as you say theirs all the expense on top sad
Thanks pebbles its driving me insane now sad
Ill mention it all when I see mr s next
Happy halloween xx

Arianrhod Wed 31-Oct-12 10:56:42

Oooh the Hallowe'en smileys are back! Been icing Halloween cookies this morning, was still baking them at half-ten last night due to something of a mistake on my part with the earlier batch of cookie dough. Here's a tip for you all; when the cookie dough recipe says 'chill for 30 minutes' do NOT chill them for 2.5 hours - the dough goes rock-hard that no amount of leaving out of the fridge (including for 24 hours!) does anything to improve. blush

Happy Hallowe'en, everyone - may all our AF witches decide to fly off with their brethren tonight, never to return! grin

lemonsherbet Wed 31-Oct-12 11:43:49

Ari it may be worth seeing if the NHS will do any of the basic investigations again for you. You hear of people having "normal" problems after having one child. I don't have any children and was initially told no because I had had a late miscarriage. So went to see a male doctor (in truth it was an accident-told the receptionist it was a gynaecological problem and so she booked me with a man). Anyway far more sympathetic than the female GPs I have seen. Said he did not see why I shouldn't be referred.

Like you I sometimes think I will be menopausal when I stop trying. I do feel guilty like I am putting our life on hold and stopping us doing exotic holidays and the like due to the money side. I often wish I had a crystal ball and could see if this is the right path. I guess what I am trying to say is I understand how you ladies feel.

Happy Halloween and may AF fly off not to return for 9 months.

Arianrhod Wed 31-Oct-12 14:31:18

Thanks lemon but you know, I've had enough tests to last me a lifetime, and enough problems that I really couldn't handle anymore! I don't think there's anything in the basic tests that I haven't already been checked for.

Crystal ball - oh yes please, I need one of those! Only want to borrow it for a bit, happy to share smile

Pebbles73 Wed 31-Oct-12 17:40:46

Just sitting in waiting room at NLC traffic here was nightmare and going back looks dreadful so not looking forward to that!

Must be hard paying for it all yourself Ari. Defo going to do more ivf as I am assuming this last super ov doesn't work. Going to ask Mr S about doing some more tests first though. Thought hoping super ov would work was a bit of a long shot but much cheaper than ivf so was worth a go.
Maybe we should start a lottery syndicate! wink

I second lemon re af flying off. smile

You are very good making cookies Ari!

Arianrhod Thu 01-Nov-12 11:35:49

How did you get on at NLC yesterday pebbles? See any witches flying around while you were there? smile

Pebbles73 Thu 01-Nov-12 13:35:27

Well good scan three good size follies on the left and one good one on the right. Lining was 11mm so was really pleased. smile

Had a chat with Mr S about what I should do next and he wants me to have the tnf alpha test if this cycle first work and if it is high to have humira. He said he is starting to offer this to ladies who have had three failed ivf's or taking a long time to get pregnant or never been pregnant. He said he is having really good results with the humira and a couple of ladies have got pregnant while wsiting for ivf after taking it.
I asked about Lad and DQ alpha and as expected he said it is a waste if time and he doesn't believe in it as there have not been enough trials. He said he is happy to do if if I want to so will go with the tnf alpha for now and see what happens with that. If I had the other tests and it turned out I needed Lit I can't really afford that along with ivf and all the other drugs anyway. He also said I should do another cycle of super ov as I have responded well while waiting for blood tests etc.
I do like the way he is so positive, he always says I am still young which I think at 39 is a tad optimistic though!!

He did say to me he had a lady who recently had the tests done but decided not to have Lit and I wanted to go ohh I know her as we are on the same forum! wink

Arianrhod Thu 01-Nov-12 14:11:09

LOL pebbles I find myself doing that so often, when he refers to people and I think Oh yes, I know her! grin Pity he didn't clarify exactly why I decided not to have LIT - because paternal LIT wouldn't have worked (due to DQa matching) and I was nervous of having donor LIT, plus I would have had to have gone to Greece to do it (ker-chinggggg! £££).

Fan-bl**dy-tastic result on the follies and the lining pebbles! Did you take the EPO/Starflower oil this month, just out of interest - I know you were thinking of stopping it, weren't you, due to last month's response? Very interesting about the testing - Mr S did say to me too that he was more interested in the TNF alpha test than he was previously, for women who are finding it difficult to get pregnant.

I know what you mean about his positive attitude - he said much the same thing to me, about how I might be 44 but my body isn't 44, it's younger. He definitely has the 'feel-good factor', his patient manner is excellent - I just hope we get results with him!

Fingers crossed those fabulous follies and fantastic lining do the trick this month - when do you trigger?

lemonsherbet Thu 01-Nov-12 14:42:02

Congrats on the result pebbles thats a fantastic result. If someone had told me 5 years ago I would be cheering on about follicle and linings I would of thought they were crazy.

Mel3062 Thu 01-Nov-12 17:04:21

Pebbles that's great news! I hope I get offered that too.
Evil witch came today sad a mix of disappointment yet relief that its here and I can get on with gonal f. Going Harley st on the 12th never been there before.
Waves to all xx

Pebbles73 Thu 01-Nov-12 22:59:10

Ari I stopped taking the starflower but I was on cyclogest last month to combsy the spotting so maybe that gas made my lining thicker. I haven't footed for two months now so maybe the lining has been able to build up better. I trigger in the morning and 'sex' Friday & Saturday, prefer it when he says intercourse! blush

I know what you mean lemon, if I thought I would be posting about when I was going to have sex I would have thought that was mad!! How are you feeling by the way?

Sorry about af Mel but at least you can get onto your next cycle.

Thanks for all your positive vibes ladies and wish everyone a lovely weekend.

duggs1976 Fri 02-Nov-12 08:26:06

Good news pebbles, good news! Were you on 7.5mg letrozole this time? I am this cycle - scan on Monday at Harley street...hello everyone smile

Pebbles73 Fri 02-Nov-12 08:53:06

Yes 7.5mg Duggs , hopefully will work well for you too. Good luck.

duggs1976 Fri 02-Nov-12 08:58:06

Ohh first time at 7.5mg pebbles?

Arianrhod Fri 02-Nov-12 12:15:30

Did we ever get a list of where everyone is at with their SO cycles? Are there a few of us now on our fifth/sixth cycle? pebbles and duggs, you are, aren't you? And me, of course. I'm just curious, I like stats smile And duggs, crossing fingers for your scan on Monday, do let us know how you get on!

Waiting patiently for AF to show her face so I can get on with my sixth cycle; I made a mistake thinking it's due tomorrow, it's not due until Tuesday. Oddly this cycle my bbs aren't hurting at all, which they always do almost straight after ovulation, so I'm wondering if I did even ovulate this month? I got an LH surge, double lines on my CBFM monitor stick and 'peak' reading, but just getting that surge doesn't guarantee of course that you will ovulate. Usually I would feel it, but I have had gastroenteritis so wouldn't notice a few extra cramps or pains in that region! Or of course it could be that this is my first full month of not taking agnus castus in a very long time, and of course that boosts progesterone, so perhaps the lack of that boost is why. Who knows, I wish I did?!

Mel3062 Fri 02-Nov-12 17:19:42

Month 6 for me starting gonal f tonight ....

Pebbles73 Fri 02-Nov-12 17:56:27

Yes first time in this dose Duggs and Ari this is cycle 6!

It's all a bit of a mystery if you ask me Ari!

duggs1976 Fri 02-Nov-12 18:13:59

Yes cycle 6 for me too! Oh I wonder if I get as good reaction as you pebbles? smile

brownstag Sun 04-Nov-12 19:48:50

I am on my 5th cycle of SO, but that's 3 on Clomid and 2 on Letrozole, and non-consecutive (over a year). I totally regret taking Clomid this month. I thought the DHEA would counteract the side effects of Clomid and would make me like a young person taking it, but sadly not. So no hope at all of anything happening this month.
Also, just an observation about surges which don't lead to ovulation. I have now been charting for 2 years and I've never had a surge that wasn't followed by a temperature shift (although some cycles had short luteal phases) so based on that I would say that it's extremely likely that you did ovulate. I've also noticed that since having my last SO with Mr S, I no longer feel ovulation. I always used to and on that last SO cycle, ovulation was extremely painful.
Good luck everyone with this cycle!

Pebbles73 Mon 05-Nov-12 13:05:40

Good luck for today Duggs hope you get a good result. Let us know.

Sorry to hear the chlomid didn't work for you Brownstag, funny you should mention ovulation pains as I had terrible stomach ache Saturday morning and afternoon which I assume was ovulation.

Arianrhod Mon 05-Nov-12 13:26:39

Interesting brown, I've found the complete opposite - SO has had no effect on my ovulation pains at all, it's only this month since I stopped the agnus castus that I didn't feel anything. I await this next cycle of SO with interest smile

Do you know for definite that the Clomid hasn't had the right effect this month brown?

Best of luck duggs, let us know how you get on.

Mel3062 Mon 05-Nov-12 16:02:30

Aw good luck duggs x

duggs1976 Mon 05-Nov-12 18:01:55

Well just seen dr s at Harley st. CD11 and 3 follies - not sure if they are "good size" or not as I usually have fewer but larger. They were all 14mm so he said to trigger on Wednesday CD 13. 10mm lining so he said he was pleased. He talked to me about TNF alpha (awkward.com) as I've had with dr g but I managed to get around it with a few huffs and puffs at patients "trusting" him etc. oh well we will see. Just paid £40 something for my ovitrelle ahh can I pre order it somewhere less expensive? How is everyone else ? Any testers lurking?

Mel3062 Mon 05-Nov-12 20:41:29

Well that's good hun. How come ovitrelle isn't £20?! X

lemonsherbet Mon 05-Nov-12 21:01:05

think it is the difference between NLC and Harley street

Pebbles73 Mon 05-Nov-12 22:24:54

Sounds good to me Duggs, I had two at 14, one at 21 and one at 18.i didn't know you could buy it at Harley St and had a nightmare finding it at a chemist last month!
If you don't mind me asking was your tnf alpha result ok?

Mel3062 Tue 06-Nov-12 06:06:41

Aw I was hoping to get a £20 one sad ill have to get it at central homecare with my gold dust gonal f ( have to inject myself for first time tonight argh!)
is the scan and consultation still £210 the same??
X

duggs1976 Tue 06-Nov-12 06:55:32

Yes I got it at local chemist wellbeck on Devonshire street near marleybone high street was expensive though! My TNF a result was 27.7 so upper end but as long as under 30 then is ok... Yes he is at Harley street Mondays which is more convenient for me.

lemonsherbet Tue 06-Nov-12 07:14:16

I not sure you can buy it at Harley street. Never been to Harley street but I remember being told you can buy it at NLC but think you have to get it yourself at Harley Street.

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 08:03:09

I initially bought it via Mr S, and he told me it was cheaper to order it in advance from this company they were using. Can't remember the name but it wasn't cheap, £35 maybe?
ari, I haven't ovulated yet on the Clomid so I can't say for sure it hasn't worked. I'm sure there's a veritable clutch of eggs ripening in there but I can't see any sperm being able to navigate the primordial sludge that is my CM. grin
Good luck with all those follies everyone!

Havingkittens Tue 06-Nov-12 09:06:58

Hello, not been around on this thread for a while but just wanted to respond to the Ovitrelle question. It's £20 from NLC, but you need to check they have it in stock before you pick it up. It's also £20 from Central Homecare, where Mr S can send a prescription but they charge £14 for delivery to London, so it still works out cheaper than a lot of chemists, even with delivery. They do free delivery with a minimum spend (can't remember what it is though), which works out if you are on Gonal F - so good for you Mel, but otherwise you're stuck with the delivery cost.

Good luck with your 3 follies Duggs. 14mm sounds good. He says they need to be bigger than 12mm before he knows they will be viable.

Best of luck to you all. xx

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 09:47:44

Having kittens, that must be the same one I had. I didn't realise it was the delivery that made it so expensive.
Mmm, I've just been reading about DQ-alpha matching. I've read the webpage several times and I understand the genetics of it now (I think). Has anyone had the K-562 target cell test? Now, I have already had one child by my husband. As I understand it, that doesn't necessarily mean we don't have matching DQa's? Is that right? Yet I also do have high natural killer cells. Is it possible to have alloimmune and autoimmune problems? Is Mr S interested in this aspect and does he test for it?

The following para I found of possible relevance to my own case, but I don't want to be going on a wild goose chase ... :

'Such NK cell activity will initially often be limited and accordingly TH-cytokine production will wax and wane (in between exposures), allowing .early implantation (albeit with a damaged embryo) to proceed and even proceed for a limited period of time, only to abort in the first trimester. Ultimately, over time following repeated and successive exposures to DQa-“matching” embryos, NK cell activation will become a permanent feature. Once this happens uterine NK cell activation (as measured by the K-562 target cell test) will exacerbate to the point that as soon as the embryo reaches the uterus implantation will be thwarted and the woman will be considered as being “infertile” when in reality she is experiencing a very early, preclinical miscarriage.'

Sorry if you've already covered this somewhere. I'm a bit out of date.

Arianrhod Tue 06-Nov-12 09:48:32

duggs follies sound good to me, know what you mean about the cost of Ovitrelle. As kittens mentions I get mine from Central Homecare at the same time as my gonal-f, which makes it £20, or from NLC if I go there for my scan.

brown Get yourself some pre-seed, for those primordial sludge days ;)

Well AF hasn't shown her head this morning and probably should have done, but I'm not holding my breath since post-mc anything could happen. Nope, I'm not testing since I don't believe in any way there could be surviving wrigglies after 4 days (I know it happens for some ladies, but I just don't believe it would happen for me!) plus even without steroids I feel in no way pregnant at all. AF is just ... well ... out on the town, I guess, flying around on her broomstick smile

/waves to everyone

Arianrhod Tue 06-Nov-12 09:59:32

brown I've not had that specific test but absolutely yes it is possible to have both alloimmune and autoimmune problems - I have both. And yes you could have one child with your DH and still have DQa problems. My OH and I are 100% matched for DQa (we are both 0201,0303) and this means that any embryo has a 50% chance of being a direct match with me, meaning my body would kill it off as not being 'different' enough to me. But equally that means any embryo has a 50% chance of NOT being a match, and so (theoretically) would be ok.

To explain a little, if this doesn't make sense, since an embryo takes one marker from each parent, it could end up being one of the four following possibles:

0201,0201 (one from me, one from OH)
0303,0303 (ditto)
0201,0303 (exact match for me)
0303,0201 (ditto)

So in the first two cases the embryo would survive, since it is sufficiently different to me, but in the last two cases it would be destroyed.

Hope that helps, a little!

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 11:00:32

Thanks Ari. Yes, that all makes sense. Thus far I had understood from my biology A level a very long time ago! In fact I've just had the post and Dr Alan Beer's book has arrived so I'll be able to study it in a bit more detail.
What a situation to be in for you, knowing that getting pregnant is a lottery unless you have IVF. Although I suppose it's the same for all of us ladies except you know the actual reason why.
So what test did you have and with whom?

Arianrhod Tue 06-Nov-12 11:13:34

I asked Mr S if OH and I could do the DQa test (along with the LAD test and karyotyping) and he agreed, sending us to TDL to get them done. Which I am now fighting my insurance company about, since while they agreed at the time to pay for it (back in June), they have now rejected the claim and won't pay. They've told me they will now have to listen to the recording of the phone conversation in which they authorised these tests to see whether or not they did actually agree to them being done ... the fact that they gave me an authorisation code for it doesn't seem to matter! angry

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 11:50:07

How infuriating! Having had similar things with cat insurance in the past, I fully sympathise.
Can I ask how much that test alone cost? I've had karyotyping already.
I'm meant to be working but am avidly reading Dr Beer instead, all about my uterus behaving like a den of lions after perceiving my placenta as a cancer in my last pregnancy ...

Arianrhod Tue 06-Nov-12 12:09:22

The DQa test on its own was £100 each, so £200 total. LAD test was 'only' £85 each, I thought it would be more than that.

I found Dr B's book very interesting, seemed to have all the answers. Yet even knowing what it says in there and having had most of the tests recommended, here I am, one year and three months after starting this whole RMC investigation lark and over 2.5 years of TTC, still with nothing to show for it except an extremely empty bank balance and a whole world of frustration.

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 13:07:03

Thanks. Yes, the book is all very upbeat but we all know it's not quite that simple. And it all assumes we have unlimited cash to pursue every avenue. I am now reading the parts about endometriosis, which I have, stage 4, and am quite amazed I have ever produced a baby at all. I'm definitely getting the feeling I'm not approaching the whole thing aggressively enough, with just hydroxy.

Arianrhod Tue 06-Nov-12 14:00:11

Ah, now you've hit the nail squarely on the head. The cost of all the investigations can be huge, and the treatments on top even more so (be thankful none of us have been told we need iVIG ... !). Even just supplements can work out very expensive (certainly if you take as many as I do!), and if you then factor in IVF as so many do ... well you can see why some people take out second mortgages. It's frightening sad

So what do you think you might do next brown?

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 15:14:04

Yes, I'm rattling with my supplements. And they always seem to run out at the same time, when I'm down to about a fiver in my account.
I suppose I'm pinning quite a lot of hope on my laparoscopy. If he tells me that everything looks normal then I shall start thinking of other tests. There might even come a point when I think of asking wealthier family members for a loan. Taking DHEA has relieved a certain amount of my anxiety that it's now or never.
I was interested to read in Dr Beer's book that severe postnatal depression is linked with the whole immune thing. After I had my DH, I was hospitalised for 2 months, in a mother and baby psychiatric unit, with what they thought initially was postnatal depression, but was later diagnosed as bipolar disorder. It was a total nightmare for everyone involved and took a long time to resolve. I still take medication for it, to add to my other dozens of tablets.
I think the cumulative stress of recurrent miscarriages was a major trigger, that on top of my generally obsessive personality, and the sudden withdrawal of pregnancy hormones. Even if you get the baby in the end, that anxiety doesn't just vanish overnight; it just morphs into something else. So I would say to everyone on here, whatever stage you're at, look after yourself as much as possible and take time to relax.

duggs1976 Tue 06-Nov-12 15:34:32

brownstag that's very interesting to read. Sad of course but helpful to others. I was seeing zita west psychotherapists and had deep hypnosis treatment as my anxiety and obsessiveness after the last mc after IVF in march tipped me over. I was and am still a little, convinced having a baby ( my first) will solve everything and I couldn't see my life or move forward without that. I think I've eased up a little as I slowly wonder if I ever will get that dream but it is interesting to hear it isn't all rosy and rainbows once you get there. Perhaps a rude awakening. I have had all the dr g tests DQ alpha match too they do add up but is less than an IVF round.

Arianrhod Tue 06-Nov-12 15:41:09

Ha! I know exactly what you mean .. I'm almost out of resveratrol, multi-vits, pycnogenol and something else that escapes me that's just as expensive (can't believe the price of resveratrol, something like £22 for a month's supply!) and I don't get paid for another 9 days sad Too much month left at the end of the money!

Sorry to hear about the bipolar ... I tell you, those hormones have got a hell of a lot to answer for. And stress of repeated miscarriages, even if you physically bounce back each time they do have an emotional impact with a much longer reach than people expect who haven't been through the same, I think.

Have you got a date through for your lap? If nothing else it will reassure you that all is well inside - or else provide you with something to look into. Either way, you have another piece of the puzzle - for me, all information is vital, whether positive or negative; at least you know a bit more afterwards than you did before, IYSWIM.

brownstag Tue 06-Nov-12 16:06:50

Ha ha, I like it, too much month left at the end of the money!
I've banned myself from reading the Healthspan/Nature's Best/etc magazines they send as there's always some new supplement that I'm sure to want. I'm itching to Google a couple you've listed but am resisting ...
My perinatal psychiatrist, who is a fantastic woman, a complete genius, told me recently they are starting to realise that hormones are neuroactive substances. They are now working on ways to use oestrogen safely as a treatment for postnatal illness/depression, plus possibly for schizophrenia. I'm sure lack of oestrogen was an important factor for me because at the time I started going bonkers I was having hot flushes and night sweats. Insomnia was my main symptom, and interestingly since taking DHEA I've been sleeping like a log.
And yes, Duggs, managing anxiety always used to be last on my list of priorities because I was only interested in that ONE THING, but I realise the error of my ways now. Not only for my sake but for other people too.

Arianrhod Wed 07-Nov-12 09:52:29

Well, AF has shown her face this morning, albeit very light and thin/watery - I've never had an AF like that, so a bit puzzled as to what's going on. Typically the 'ideal' 2 days for a follie scan fall on Sat/Sun this month, so I'm either going to have to have an early scan again on CD10 or a late one CD13. Here we go again ....

lemonsherbet Wed 07-Nov-12 10:05:02

Sorry AF showed her head.

Arianrhod Wed 07-Nov-12 10:28:15

I expected it lemon, but ty smile

brownstag Wed 07-Nov-12 11:23:45

Sure it couldn't be implantation if it's so different? Having said that, my last period was like that for the first day, where it normally starts suddenly and heavily overnight.

Arianrhod Wed 07-Nov-12 11:35:17

Def. not implantation, just ... odd. Perhaps because it's post-mc? Not sure, I guess I just wait to see what happens at my follie scan, what my lining is like.

Pebbles73 Wed 07-Nov-12 14:18:38

Sorry about af Ari and hope it is not to much of a weird one.

It sounds like you went through a really hard time brown so glad to hear you are looking after yourself. Also wise words about the anxiety not going away just because you eventually reach that goal.

Duggs I know what you mean about wondering if you will ever reach the dream, mine has become more and more distant as time has gone by. I used to imagine and fantasise what it would be like having a baby but i don't bother torturingvnyself anymore!!

Sorry for the depressing post, not feeling well at the moment with a cold and feeling quite down about lack of success with super ov sad

Arianrhod Wed 07-Nov-12 14:28:28

Big hugs for you pebbles, understand the feeling. Try to take heart from what happened with abney, where SO did nothing and then she got pregnant naturally once she stopped taking the meds. Just goes to show that Nature wants things her way ... smile

Pebbles73 Wed 07-Nov-12 16:59:54

I know nice thought Ari but has never happened naturally for us only with ivf....

Mel3062 Wed 07-Nov-12 17:59:16

I think we need a group hug sad xx

Pebbles73 Wed 07-Nov-12 18:11:36

Yes defo, think we could all do with one!'

duggs1976 Wed 07-Nov-12 23:11:23

Yes please. Just had a Facebook ambush of people and their babies looking so content!!!!

Arianrhod Thu 08-Nov-12 08:16:57

Know what you mean duggs, found the same on FB last night, even the 'comedy' posts seem to be about babies, and a friend of mine is posting lots of pics of his beautiful newborn baby daughter. While I'm honestly thrilled for him, at the same time ... well, you know.

brownstag Thu 08-Nov-12 11:56:46

Yes, we know! Don't you also find that certain people having babies affects you more than others? Usually I really am genuinely pleased, but there's the odd one where I've had to have a private weep and feel, yes, I admit, total envy. I have one friend for instance who was trying at the same time as me and kept sending me texts saying things like 'Babies in the forties! That's the way to go! All it takes is good timing!' It might be the way to go, if, like her, you've never had a fertility problem in your life. But when you've got endo, a history of recurrent miscarriage, high NK cells, one ovary working, as well as being the wrong side of forty, it's not quite so simple. And of course she is now 22 weeks pregnant, aged 42, having tried for a few months. Which is lovely for her, of course, but I couldn't help feeling she'd turned it into a race, one that I was bound to lose. It was almost a relief when I did 'lose', to be honest and I could stop secretly dreading hearing her inevitable good news.

lemonsherbet Thu 08-Nov-12 12:36:14

I know what you mean for me it is usually family ones that I find hard. It is also those that were pregnant with their first at the same time has my first miscarriage are now on baby 2/3, whilst I am still waiting to get off the starting line so to speak. I also had one person who wanted me to join her group so I could follow her pregnancy week by week, obviously hide those updates.

I just keep thinking eventually we will get there. Also it is not "my" baby they have got, so am usually happy for them. Just can be so hard when FB is full of babies at the moment

Arianrhod Thu 08-Nov-12 13:05:46

That's where we need that crystal ball again lemon. I could put up with all this treatment, supplements, even the miscarriages, if I knew that at the end of it it would work - we will get our baby. But I'm 44, 45 in 2 months, and just don't have that assurance that it really will happen, unfortunately sad

brown Know what you mean .. it's fantastic that your friend is pregnant at 42, but it really doesn't make it any easier for you. Group hug!!

brownstag Thu 08-Nov-12 17:39:49

Thanks, gratefully received. But Ari, you may be nearly 45, but you are obviously very fertile for your age, and while that is the case, there is as much hope as for anyone else having the treatment. Your rate of conception is like that of a much younger woman. And you know what your problem is, with the DQas.
But yes, I would certainly really go for it, with steroids too, if I knew there was a finite period that I'd have to do it for. And if I knew too, that it was just an immune problem, not anatomical, or age-related, or anything else ...
Does anyone know whether it's worthwhile having a repeat NK test while on hydroxy? Does it alter levels like steroids do? Or just alter their behaviour? I haven't had a test since I was first pregnant 4 years ago and I think if I knew my levels had increased dramatically I would start doing what you're doing, Ari, with the 10mg of pred. I may ask Louise.

Pebbles73 Thu 08-Nov-12 20:22:10

Oh dear I feel like I have put everyone on a downer and send you all a hug. The whole FB thing must be difficult, having to see all the photos and what amazing things the baby is doing etc you all have my sympathies. I am not on FB (knew there was a reason not to be!) but couple of people at work just had babies and have go be happy for them and look at thier photos. If only people knew what we were all going through!!

Brown I am glad you said that about some people's pregnancies affecting you more than others as thought I was a bit strange like that! One of my good friends had a little girl about 18mths ago through ivf and because she lives round the corner I see her all the time. Her little girl is lovely and because she knows me and my dh so well she puts her arms up for us to pick her up. I was completely fine with her pregnancy but a girl at work who is generally really nice was about four months pregnant when I miscarried and I have had to really avoid her as it really upset me! It doesn't help that she comes into work with the baby all the time, I just make myself look really busy as she just passes the baby around.

We need some good news and positive tests on this thread soon..,

brownstag Sat 10-Nov-12 18:37:30

No, Pebbles, it wasn't you that put us on a downer, just life!
Emailed Louise yesterday about whether it was worthwhile doing a repeat NK cells test, and at first she said if I was happy with the management it was an expense I could avoid. Then I went on to say that I hadn't conceived since having my DH nearly 4 years ago, and that I'd be interested to know whether they had increased. She said to book an appointment as they have a new test for people who haven't conceived in a long time. Sounds intriguing. anyone had this/know what it's testing? Not sure if that's in addition to the NK one but I may have to dig into my ISA once again.

Mel3062 Sat 10-Nov-12 20:39:53

Brown stag I'm seeing mr s on Monday and Louise mentioned this to me so hopefully ill find out more then ;)
Pebbles it's not you that's putting downers it's our situations and the fact that it can be so easy for some and so unfair for others xx

brownstag Sun 11-Nov-12 08:00:36

Thanks Mel, I'd be very interested.

brownstag Sun 11-Nov-12 08:04:36

Oh, I also meant to say, for anyone who's planning on an AMH test, I found a cheap one online, with Duo Fertility, for £45. I've got an appointment on Thursday at my GP's to take the blood. It says it can be used any time of the month, but it doesn't mention fertility treatments. I used Clomid at the beginning of the month and it will be day 23 by then. Anyone know if that's okay?

Pebbles73 Sun 11-Nov-12 13:03:26

Brown she was probably talking about the tnf-alpha blood test which I am having done if I don't conceive this month. You have that and a tb blood test and if it is high you have humira which is an injection two weeks apart and then another tnf-alpha blood test to see if it had worked. I think the blood test was around £250 and the two shots of humira if needed are £450 so not cheap! Thank god or credit cards! He said he us seeing done good sucsess with this and a couple of ladies had it while waiting for ivf and got pregnant naturally including one who had never been pregnant before.

Mel3062 Sun 11-Nov-12 13:20:33

Yikes I wish hubby wasn't coming with me now!! Still cheaper than ivf I keep telling him....

Pebbles73 Sun 11-Nov-12 13:42:17

Tell me about it Mel as no doubt we will have to pay for ivf on top of these tests, think we will be on debt forever!! Have you had your follie scan yet this month or are you going soon?

How are you doing Duggsyou have been very quiet, must be all that swi! wink

duggs1976 Mon 12-Nov-12 08:36:19

Hey girls! I'm here.dr s seems to be wheeling this "new" test out to us all. He didn't seem impressed that I'd had it done back in may elsewhere. Well I hope it helps some of us on here that don't seem to be able to get anywhere. Any testers this week?

brownstag Mon 12-Nov-12 09:40:49

Thanks Pebbles. Has anyone had Humira? It sounds a bit scary, from what I've read!
How does this relate to DQ-alpha? In no way at all? Would I be right in thinking that Humira is the mother of all immune suppressants? Does it therefore cover all and any immune problems? Are the two injections all you need? So many questions!

ChoccyPud Mon 12-Nov-12 10:38:08

Morning ladies - Just invading briefly on the Humira query...

I had it a couple of months ago. Definitely get a medic/nurse to do it for you - its £800 ish for two injections and you can only get it from central home care (unless that's changed since) so way too much money to risk messing up the injection if you aren't confident in what you're doing. In my case the first pen injection the nurse tried was faulty and exploded everywhere too and I'm not the only patient that's happened to...

I was allergic to it and wasn't allowed the second jab - I came up in a prickly itchy rash after about 5 days and Mr S put me on 25mg Pred to sort that out! Plus piriton and aqueous cream! He hadn't seen that bad a reaction but if you go online it seems slight rashes are not uncommon. But that's not a concern that would've stopped me trying it. It's all risk/reward at the end of the day.

I'd always say go for it but keep an eye out for the usual signs of allergic reactions.

Afaik DQ-alpha is a separate thing btw. Humira is to reduce TNF alpha which is causative/related to conditions like rheumatoid arthritics, Crohn's disease etc. it causes swelling somewhere. Sorry cant remember the details now but there's lots of info if you google. smile

brownstag Mon 12-Nov-12 10:49:37

Thanks Choccypud. That sounds quite a dramatic reaction. So presumably you don't know what effect having only the one injection has had on your TNF alpha levels? Does Mr S think you should just carry on with pred?
If the treatment works, does it result in a permanent change?
Duggs, what was the result of your TNF alpha test?

Arianrhod Mon 12-Nov-12 11:07:47

DQ-alpha is a genetic thing, humira has no effect on that. I was just going to say you should ask choccy for her humira experience, and there she was smile

ChoccyPud Mon 12-Nov-12 11:18:19

Waves to ari - I'm still lurking every now and then! ;)

My levels did drop quite a bit. Anything over ?32 is high. I was at ?45 and dropped to 33/34 I think just with the one jab. However he'll tell you that the number isn't necessarily definitive in itself. So don't get despondent if your levels don't fall/don't fall by much. It stays in your system for a few months.

brownstag Mon 12-Nov-12 11:59:36

Mmmm, reading Dr Beer, it seems they are interconnected.
In the part about DQA combinations he says of a couple that share the 0501 genotype: 'Her NK cells may treat the rapidly dividing embryonic 'altered self' cells like a form of cancer and secrete TNF-alpha to destroy them'.
And he says that when a couple's tissue type is too closely matched (i.e. the DQ-alpha issue, category 1), it can start a chain reaction of problems in categories 2, 3, 4 and 5, namely blood clotting problems, an immune reaction to the baby, both partners having antiboides to sperm and white cells running riot.
Bloomin' complicated stuff! But I think this is the way to go for me. When I have some money ...

Pebbles73 Mon 12-Nov-12 13:55:39

It's all very complicated stuff!

I wonder why the price I was given was so much different to yours Choccy? Great that just the one injection made a difference for you, will you have to take it again or is that it?

Arianrhod Mon 12-Nov-12 14:10:11

pebbles - you sure it wasn't £450 each, per shot? just a thought ..

BellyD Mon 12-Nov-12 17:31:55

Hi All, have been lurking for weeks but keeping my head down and massively sympathising with all the fb chat - so painful. Was really hoping to have some good news to share with you this pm, but sadly it is mc no.6 for us. I was too terrified to tell you about my bfp in Sept as only had last mc in July and not sure I was mentally prepared. Also I felt guilty that we conceived on 1st SO cycle which I realise is/was so lucky compared with what you ladies are going through. Sadly it was not to be and despite trying really hard with the pma I just am now devoid of all belief that I can carry a baby. We threw everything at it that we could: 25mg Pred, hydroxy, clomid, 800mg cyclogest, aspirin, folic acid, not to mention fish oil and vits etc. I can't have intralipids due to a soya allergy. We got 3 days further to 6w4days but should have measured 7w1day. But most importantly no heartbeat. It's the first time we have ever seen anything resembling a baby, which makes it all the more heartbreaking. We now have to decide what to do. Really don't think I can face another erpc (5th).
I have a high tnf alpha too 36.3 but Mr S says there is only evidence that it can impact conceiving through IVF and none that it plays a role in rmc. What do you all think? I can't face having the humira personally because I am so hideously allergic to everything. Pebbles are you due to test soon? Keeping my fingers crossed for you. Sorry to be all about me, was so hoping to provide inspiration rather than spread more gloom.

BellyD Mon 12-Nov-12 17:44:53

Sorry meant clexane not clomid.

duggs1976 Mon 12-Nov-12 18:08:11

ok catching up on here.
Firstly bellyd so sorry to hear this news. Have you considered perhaps looking into Dr Gorgy as he is much more closely aligned to Dr Beer's books and if this is going to be your one last time then you know you have done all you can. It might take a few months for you to decide.
Is kind of related to all the TNF alpha and humira talk as Dr S is only just "rolling it out" to all his patients but I can't help but think the pick and chose process with us all seems a bit half hearted at times. Doesn't it make sense that all is related? I guess if the treatment is similar then not so much to worry about ?
My result for TNF alpha was 27.9 anything under 30 is ok apparently.
The injection is £700 according to Louise and Dr S last monday... humira I mean.. for both.
ARGC have been using humira for a while now.

brownstag Mon 12-Nov-12 18:23:42

BellyD, I'm so so sorry. But I wouldn't give up hope of ever carrying a baby. Although my current situation is not much of an inspiration to anyone, my DS is a pred baby, after 4 miscarriages, and before having him I really believed that it would and could never happen. I just think that pregnancy was different somehow. I had to wait a few days for an appointment with Mr S once I had found I was pregnant with him, and so didn't take the steroids immediately, but my previous two pregnancies wouldn't even have lasted that long. Even though I know I needed the steroids, I also think the pregnancy was stronger in some sense in the first place. And your next one may be.
But only you can know what you're prepared to go through.
How long ago did Mr S say that about Humira not helping with rmc? Maybe he's changed his mind. After all, I once found an interview with him denouncing steroids in pregnancy!

lemonsherbet Mon 12-Nov-12 21:11:02

bellyD just wanted to say how sorry I am for you. We are going to Mr G after we have had the investigations done by the NHS recurrent miscarriage clinic in January. It may be something to consider, especially since Mr S seems to be coming round to Mr G way of thinking. I hope you are taking care of yourself. I know that there is nothing that I can really say to make it better. So I will tell you a fact from the miscarriage book I am reading. 70% of women with 3 or more miscarriages will go on to have a successful pregnancy. To be honest that has been giving me hope this week so I thought I would share.

A very unmumsnet hug. Thinking of you.

duggs1976 Mon 12-Nov-12 21:50:46

What is that book lemon I like that stat!
Sounds like one I'd like to read. .

lemonsherbet Tue 13-Nov-12 07:45:29

It is called "Coming to term: uncovering the truth about miscarriage" by Jon cohen

Pebbles73 Tue 13-Nov-12 08:59:38

Ari as you can tell I wasn't fully awake yesterday and yes of course must be £450 an injection! wink I desperately hope I font need it at that price!!

Belly just want to say how very sorry I am to read your news. Remember we know how devastating it is and are all here for you should you want to talk about it. In the meantime look after yourself and try and plan something nice to do when you are feeling up to it.

Sounds like an interesting book to look into.

Waves to everyone else, I am due to test Saturday and unfortunately my mother on law will be there, guess it will stop me going into meltdown when it is negative....
Duggs when are you due to test?

Arianrhod Tue 13-Nov-12 09:59:14

bellyd I'm so, so sorry you have had to go through this again, and we all know how very hard it is to feel positive when nothing seems to be working. Huge hugs to you, we can hold each other's hands (virtually) and hope that magical number 7 works for us both. This whole process is so damn hard, we just have to keep faith somehow that it's just a matter of catching the right egg. I know faith is hard to come by, especially right now, so let us have the faith for you while you decide what to do next. xx

Arianrhod Tue 13-Nov-12 10:00:46

Cross-posted ... pebbles So we can all keep our fingers/toes/eyes/ears crossed for you for Saturday! smile Are you going to have the TNF-a test then? And know what you mean about the price - why are these treatments so damn expensive?!

BellyD Tue 13-Nov-12 12:24:58

Ladies, thank you for all your words of support. Hoping this is your month Pebbles. We went to see Dr Gorgy in between the last mc and this pregnancy. Had all the tests and like Ari my LAD was negative, and also I had the raised TNF alpha. Had to 'fess up to Mr S that we had been and he was NOT happy. He rubbished the LAD test but was interested in the TNF alpha and said now he knew mine was raised we should think about treating it. Brownstag Mr S said to me yesterday that there was evidence that humira helps people conceive through ivf if they have raised tnf alpha but that there isn't any evidence of the role humira or a raised tnf alpha plays in recurrent miscarriage. I can't help thinking they must be linked though but am simply too terrified to take the humira. The only Dr G test we haven't managed to do was the hidden infection one because I could never get a decent enough sample, if I mc naturally do you think I could send off that blood? Sorry if tmi. X

holldoll Tue 13-Nov-12 15:31:02

Hi guys - I've been lurking about again, so sorry to hear your news belly it's so frustrating getting pregnant and then every day being a lifetime. I'm so sorry for you.
Could I have some advice, I'm due to test this week, but I'm worried about the ovitrelle. Everyone says different things when it comes to its longevity in our systems. What do you guys do. When do you test? Thank in advance and good luck to anyone else testing this week x

BellyD Tue 13-Nov-12 16:59:17

Holldoll I tested from 10dpo and ovitrelle was def still in my system. I then tested each day and started taking pred from day 12po as I still had a bfp. I think the ovitrelle should be out of your system by then. I almost like to track it if you know what I mean. I tested until day my period was due when I got a strong line and then stopped and didn't go with a digi test at all to try and keep the mentalling at bay. I hope that is helpful.

Arianrhod Tue 13-Nov-12 17:48:39

holl I'd echo belly - I've had traces of Ovitrelle in my system still at 10dpo so I don't test now until 12dpo. But I know some ladies that it's out of their system by 10dpo.

holldoll Tue 13-Nov-12 18:07:47

Yes it is - thank you. I think it's because I do not want to stay on pred longer than needed. I'm testing it out too, I'm 9dp trigger now and 7 dpo. It adds another level to to being stressful around testing.
Thanks again

Mel3062 Tue 13-Nov-12 18:28:50

Bellyd my heart goes out to you sad
As for me saw mr s who was v pleased as I had good response from gonal f 3 on 1 side, 1 on the other 18, 17, 15,12 so he was pleased smile
He's happy for me to continue it for another 2 cycles but said I'd need a break for a month due to the steroids, does that mean no trying??sad
He also wants me to take the alpha test which I will try arrange near my next scan date I think, 2 birds with one stone. It has to be done in a morning and only at Harley st is that right??
X

duggs1976 Wed 14-Nov-12 06:31:32

belly that should be fine as long as is blood from your uterus then they should be able to test it. pebbles I'm due to test next Wednesday so I'm only a week past trigger injection today!! Yawn.

brownstag Wed 14-Nov-12 08:10:23

holldoll, Ovitrelle was out of my system almost instantly. I started testing really early, 8dpo maybe, and never had a false postive. Mel, those were my exact numbers on my last 7.5mg letrozole cycle!
Yawn for me too, Duggs, only 5dpo. Toying with the idea of starting 10mg pred now, but also thinking it will be a waste of time because of the recent primordial sludge situation.
Good luck everyone x

Mel3062 Wed 14-Nov-12 21:03:02

19,16,15 and 11 I got it wrong!x

holldoll Thu 15-Nov-12 09:01:16

So ladies I promised I would not start mentalling but I am! I'm 11 days post trigger and 10 dpo. Internet cheap tests have been getting lighter since 6 days post trigger but have stayed the same for last 2 mornings so I did a superdrug one and got a good line. Now I don't know what to think. Is this a true positive or just the ovitrelle and that the superdrug test is better?
Apologies for a me me me post but need some wise words. Thanks in advance x

Arianrhod Thu 15-Nov-12 09:57:15

Crikey holl, I really hope this is it for you! No really wise words here I'm afraid, but if it were me I'd keep testing until 12dpo and if that line is still good I'd swing into action. However, that's because of my own past experience, and that may not be the same for you. Are you due to have intralipids on a BFP? Perhaps it might be worth emailing/calling Louise to get her take on it?

Pebbles73 Thu 15-Nov-12 10:09:06

If I don't get a positive this month Ari I will go and get the tnf alpha test done, as I will probably be doing more ivf it seems to make good sense to have it done.

Holldoll sorry answer is a bit late now but I tested one month 12 days after trigger shot and it was still coming up with a very faint positive so everyone seems to be different. Good luck.

Good result Mel you must be really pleased. The tnf alpha does indeed have to be done at Harley St in the morning.

It's always such s long wait isn't it Duggs!

Well wishing everyone good luck, as for me don't feel any different to any other month. Just been to dentist and they wanted to do an x-ray so I said a very small chance I could be pregnant to which the dentist replied how exciting. If only she knew, I did say it was most unlikely!!

holldoll Thu 15-Nov-12 10:19:47

No intralipids for me, I will email
Louise but always worried that I'm being mental! It's so frustrating as you all know and not helped by partner who thinks we should give up if the next Cycle fails. Do you guys have any experience of the Internet cheapies? I am tending to believe those. Thank for advice and good luck to you all x x

brownstag Thu 15-Nov-12 12:11:55

I only use internet cheapies and have occasionally had some evaporation lines but they were always grey-looking, not blue. I would say it sounds very promising. For me, certainly, a line at 11dpo would be positive. Fingers crossed!
Does anyone find Cyclogest causes cramping? I'm using it this month, and am finding the cramping annoyingly hope-inspiring.

BellyD Thu 15-Nov-12 12:44:26

holdoll I would definitely email Louise if I were you. It would seem we are all different in terms of how long the ovitrelle sticks around. Have you been taking Pred from ov? Really hope it's a bfp for you.

holldoll Thu 15-Nov-12 12:50:30

Thanks, yes progesterone does make me cramp. It is annoying! Louise has asked me to retest in 2 days. Fingers crossed

Pebbles73 Thu 15-Nov-12 20:26:26

Have everything crossed for you Holldoll, hope the next couple of days pass quickly for you.

Brownstag I found the cyclogest gave me cramp and made my boobs really hurt which is defo very annoying.

Well I gave in as usual and poas when I got home from work and have a very feint line. I am 13 days post trigger shot and 12 days post ovulation. Wishing I hadn't done it now as will no doubt be the trigger shot still in my system......

holldoll Thu 15-Nov-12 20:34:52

Pebbles Louise said today that by12dpo so 13-14dpt it should be a BFP. Fingers crossed for you too x x

Mel3062 Thu 15-Nov-12 20:57:53

Ooh how exciting fingers crossed xx

Pebbles73 Thu 15-Nov-12 20:59:32

Thanks Holldoll very much liking the sound of that but is all pretty border line. Mustn't get hopes up!!

Arianrhod Thu 15-Nov-12 23:18:12

pebbles Hope is the right thing to have!! Fingers firmly crossed smile

BellyD Thu 15-Nov-12 23:19:19

Pebbles don't want to get your hopes up but that does look promising - especially as it wasn't first morning wee. Keeping everything crossed for you x

Arianrhod Fri 16-Nov-12 11:00:40

belly Echoing sue's comment on the pred thread, acupuncture triggered one of my miscarriages for me, that was hanging on and didn't seem to be happening naturally. I was cramping by the end of the evening I had it done (I had had no cramps at all prior to the acupuncture) and full-on bleeding the next morning. Just thought if you don't want to wait, it might help?

Pebbles73 Fri 16-Nov-12 12:41:27

Thanks ladies, tested again this morning and is feinter than yesterday but wider. Yesterday's is very thin but darker so am thinking could still just be from the ovitrelle or an evaporation line. Oh the mentalling!

holldoll Fri 16-Nov-12 13:18:14

I'm with you pebbles- I did a test last night which was stronger. This morning it was about the same. Just going to keep testing with the IC and keeps fingers crossed.
Good luck to you but it does sound promising, it's do hard to feel excited as its all fraught with worry. Guess only time will tell x

Arianrhod Fri 16-Nov-12 13:29:55

I maintain that HPTs are truly the work of the devil!!! Drive you insane, they will .. sad

Still crossing fingers for you both!

holldoll Fri 16-Nov-12 13:32:20

Thanks Ari! Hope things are going ok with you?

Pebbles73 Fri 16-Nov-12 13:33:19

Wishing you loads of luck Holl, your sounds very promising. Well when I just went to the toilet there was light pink discharge (sorry for the tmi!) so think af is on its way and the lined must be from the ovitrelle. That's shady you get for testing early, I should know better by now!

Hope everyone ok and looking forward to the weekend, I am off to see Breaking Dawn tonight do should hopefully take my mind off things.

Arianrhod Fri 16-Nov-12 13:42:05

Oh bl**dy hell pebbles, that evil witch should've buggered off at Hallowe'en, didn't she get the message? I hope it's not, but if it is, on to TNF-alpha testing? Maybe that holds the answer? I forget, did you get yours and DH's DQa tested? Just wondered if that might be a factor.

Me ... nothing doing here right now, waiting for follie scan with Mr S on Monday in Harley St, at CD13 it's the latest I've been in my cycle. Have to try to pin OH down for some SWI this weekend I guess (oh shame on me for the lack of enthusiasm, how rubbish am I?!). I'm curious to see whether not taking agnus castus this cycle will have had any effect on my follies, given that it's apparently supposed to block the effect of things like Letrozole and Gonal-f .. whoops ... blush . If my follies are exactly the same as always I'll know that's yet another old wives tale, and will start taking it again!

Pebbles73 Fri 16-Nov-12 13:47:20

Good luck Ari and let us know how you get on. Hope it makes a difference without the agnus castus.

BellyD Fri 16-Nov-12 14:54:19

Still feeling positive for you pebbles and holldoll. Don't want to add to the mentalling but I had light pink dc and so it could be implantation bleeding. Test again tomorrow is the best bet.

Thanks for tip re acupuncture Ari. I went yesterday and for reflexology today so hopefully I won't have to wait too long although part of me doesn't want it to end as it will probably be the last time I have a baby inside me - does that sound really deranged? Best of luck for Monday. Hope you have some big juicy follies. X

lemonsherbet Fri 16-Nov-12 16:19:28

pebbles and holldoll another person keeping their fingers crossed for you. We could do with some luck on the board and I am feeling we are due some BFP.

BellyD hope everything gets a move on for you (I mean that in the nicest possible way). But I do understand what you mean about wanting to stay pregnant.

Ari our supplement trailblazer will be interesting to find out the effect of agnus catus

holldoll Fri 16-Nov-12 16:22:15

Oh pebbles, fingers crossed it could be implantation. I'm worried as I had this last month where had faint positives but got AF. It was either the ovitrelle or a chemical.
I hope tomorrow brings some good news and its not AF.
Keeping everything crossed. Ari I hope follies are looking hot, I know the feeling regarding planning the SWI. Luckily my partner is generally up for it but I must say this has taken all the spontaneity out the event!
Hope you all have good wk ends, going off to mental at my mums for a few days!!

Mel3062 Fri 16-Nov-12 19:29:11

Good luck ladies!!!! X

brownstag Fri 16-Nov-12 20:00:36

Good luck with all those possible BFPs everyone, and good luck Ari! Hopefully implantation Pebbles. Those thin but darker lines are usually where you haven't had the test exactly flat so it collects at the bottom. So the lighter but wider isn't necesarily fainter than the previous day.
I took agnus castus for a year or two in total, first for about 9 months after I came off the pill years ago before I had DS, and then again after coming off the pill 2 years ago. Nothing dramatic to report though my cycles did get gradually more regular. I've never taken it with any treatment though.

duggs1976 Sat 17-Nov-12 09:36:53

Hope testing goes ok today ladies! A quick Q for a v good friend of mine. She is 45 has a DS already 5 yrs old, been diagnosed with high TNF Alpha and recommended humira before her IVF round at ARGC. Question is humira is for IVF patients not patients trying to conceive naturally right? Is that because once u have injection u shouldn't get pregnant because they don't know affect of humira on fetus? Waiting 6 mths for her @ 45 is a long time - personally I'd have the injections- shag like mad and have IVF as soon as poss but wanted to get some input from u folk?

Mel3062 Sat 17-Nov-12 09:58:51

Mr s said for me to have humira if I test positive for alpha and I'm trying using just gonal f? Then if that fails its then onto ivf after that? X

Pebbles73 Sat 17-Nov-12 10:00:50

Have you tested again Holl? Fingers crossed for you? I haven't bothered as pretty sure this will be af although it seems to be dragging itself out. Have gone from pink spotting to watery brown now but still not full af yet. Just for info I read on a forum somewhere that the cheap Sainsburys ones are notorious for evap lines so make sure you avoid them!!
Not sure if I should carry on with steroids until I get proper af?

I don't know that much about it but generally what I have seen is that humira is normally to help ivf patients. Mr S did say to me tough that a couple of ladies he treated with humira got pregnant naturally while waiting for their ivf cycle. I am I pretty sure you have to wait to try as they then do another blood test to see if the humira worked.

I am going to be taking a break now as if af shows up properly we will be away to Thailand for Xmas and don't want to be worrying about being pregnant or not. Will get the tnf alpha test done and see what that brings up then on to ivf after Xmas. I have to say though that I really am feeling like I will never be pregnant again..,

Ari couldn't agree more about the hpt's!!

Arianrhod Sat 17-Nov-12 12:20:50

pebbles big hugs .. I feel exactly the same way, that I'll never be properly pregnant again. Feels like my third miscarriage, before I saw Mr S, where the baby got to 9 weeks, was my last real chance and that my eggs are just too damn old now.

duggs Hopefully choccy will be along shortly to answer but remember she had humira and she's not doing IVF .. I understood it to be ok for natural TTC as well? I'm not sure, but that was what I thought?

/waves to everyone, feeling rather meh about it all again today.

Pebbles73 Sat 17-Nov-12 16:08:06

Big hugs back to you Ari, it's hard trying to stay positive all the time isn't it? I think sometimes you just have to give into it a bit, feel a bit sorry for yourself/have a good cry and then move on. Well be looking to see how you get on Monday, hopefully you will have a good result making you feel a bit more positive and ready to go again.

ChoccyPud Sat 17-Nov-12 16:25:42

You called?! ;)

Right. In no particular order:

- humira stays in your system for a few months, it's not a permanent fix, so I wouldn't wait to ttc/undergo IVF afterwards, subject to other meds or issues that require delay or lead in period.
- there's no research about safety of humira with pregnancy but it's used commonly as I understand it and most importantly, I trust that I wouldn't have been given something and told to crack on ttc if it wasn't safe to do so.
- you can't be on any immuno meds when you have the TNF alpha test, I believe, as they'd potentially give skewed results. I was off everything when I had my TNF alpha tested so that was fine, but I don't know if you have to stop Pred or Hydroxy and if so for how long before testing if you aren't on a break when you get tested.
- Duggs bear in mind that I'm on Hydroxy so had a "natural" delay/ lead in period of six weeks after getting TNF alpha results and before starting to ttc while the Hydroxy built up again.

Hope this helps!

Good luck to the testers... I feel like a bit of an interloper here, but am lurking and thinking of you all smile

duggs1976 Sat 17-Nov-12 18:06:34

Ok thanks ladies, have passed into her! How r u finding hydroxy? R u on hydroxy alone - no more pred? X

holldoll Sat 17-Nov-12 18:20:30

Thanks for all the good luck messages.
Pebbles - yes did test and it seems to be getter a bit darker but I'm only day 25 of a 26-28 day cycle. Just trying to keep busy and not stress which is soooo hard.
It does sound more implantation than AF?? I've been having loads of cramps too. I can def see why you are taking a break but I'm keeping fingers crossed for you that you won't need too.

Thanks again to everyone for support and hope having a good wk end x

holldoll Sat 17-Nov-12 18:28:13

Meant to day that using superdrug as seem
Better than FRER, and IC as these are cheaper for mentalling.
I agree Ari too it's do hard to keep positive. There is no excitement anymore, no naivety to it not like when I first got pregnant and just rolled with it as knew no better.
I don't know anything about humira so can't offer any experience.

Sorry for double post but couldn't scroll back up x x

brownstag Sun 18-Nov-12 08:31:35

Duggs, I am certainly assuming that Humira is for patients trying naturally too or else why would Mr S be offering this test now?; not many of us are having IVF.
Had what I'm pretty sure is an evaporation line this morning, 9dpo, but took 10mg pred just in case.
Ari, what dose of agnus castus are you taking? At the point when I stopped taking mine (this time last year) it was becoming increasingly difficult to get a decent strength because of new EU laws about herbal medicines. I took 1000mg.

brownstag Sun 18-Nov-12 11:39:05

Duggs, also meant to say, do you think your friend mistook waiting 6 weeks for 6 months?, having read what Choccypud said.

duggs1976 Sun 18-Nov-12 13:12:17

Hey guys - hope u testers are doing ok this morning? I think as she is new to all this she is nervous taking a drug that hasn't been "officially" marked as safe for pregnancy - but as we know with all our drugs plenty of people have conceived after taking humira whilst waiting for IVF so reckon she should have injection and try to conceive naturally as her chances without it are minimal. Thanks ladies. . grin

duggs1976 Sun 18-Nov-12 13:12:56

Ahhh I see what u mean brown perhaps that's a good point ! I'll check

brownstag Sun 18-Nov-12 17:01:29

... Just been having a Googling-random-fertility-articles-in-journals afternoon, as everyone's out! I think I must get myself some phytoestrogens. What kind are people taking and how much?
I'm vegan and already eat tonnes of soya; in fact before reading those articles I was thinking of giving it up for a bit, having read lots of contradictory reports about its effect on fertility. I wonder if the secret is, as in the studies, only to take it after ovulation, whereas maybe continuous consumption leads to the opposite effect.

brownstag Mon 19-Nov-12 08:38:46

Another evaporation line, another 10mg pred. 10mg is fine, I think, side effects-wise, so far. Though how it will combine with DHEA to make a mega moustache, I'm not sure.

duggs1976 Mon 19-Nov-12 09:49:45

pebbles and holl have you tested today? Xx

brownstag Mon 19-Nov-12 12:02:40

Duggs, what kind and what strength of phytoestrogens were you taking? and at what point in the cycle?

Arianrhod Mon 19-Nov-12 13:05:47

Hi ladies -

pebbles and holl, any news for us?

brown Can I ask why you feel you need phytoestrogens? Do you mean like soy isoflavones (which appears to mimic the effects of clomid)? Certainly having taken it last cycle, albeit I had little chance of getting pg due to OH being away at the critical time, I had no appreciable side effects so would definitely consider taking them again short-term if I weren't doing SO.

Agnus castus - I have always taken 2 x 500mg capsules until I stopped taking them this last cycle (when researching soy isoflavones made me realise AC works against SO fertility meds, including soy isoflavones). I know what you mean about the EU ruling affecting herbal supplements, but fortunately the supplier I used was ok until very recently and even after that I found another, so I have lots sitting in the cupboard not being taken right now!

duggs how are you doing? I know my memory is pretty rubbish but aren't you/weren't you due to be testing?

choccy You're def. not an interloper, you're a very helpful source of knowledge and of course always welcome here smile I think I'm right in that we're all still pretty much TTC here whereas it feels like almost everyone on the Pred thread is pregnant; while I am honestly so pleased for them all for me personally it does feel like this is more of a 'home' right now.

belly How are you doing now? I know you won't be feeling good, but hopefully you are doing ok?

So, saw Mr S for my follie scan this morning, wondering whether not taking AC this cycle will have had a difference. I had 2 follies 25mm and 22mm on one side, and one 14mm on the other, with lining at 8.3mm. The smaller follie is too small to be much use, but Mr S seemed happy and thinks this is the best I've responded on SO. However, it has occurred to me - is this right? This is the latest in my cycle I've ever seen him - I usually ovulate naturally CD14 and today is CD13, I usually see him CD11 or even sometimes CD10. Looking back through my records my follies have been 19mm/16mm/10mm on CD11 before (and similar on another cycle) - well don't follies grow between 1-3mm per day? So wouldn't that be about right anyway? confused Seems like my response this cycle is pretty much like other cycles, surely? Not that I'll care if it works, obviously!!, but it also means the results of my experiment with not taking the AC is still uncertain too. I'll continue with not taking it for now, I think, since it definitely is known to have a hormonal balancing effect and with the SO meds they actively influence hormones so I can see why you wouldn't want to be taking both together. As I've said before - who knows?!

/waves to lemon, mel and anyone else that I've missed!

Arianrhod Mon 19-Nov-12 13:07:16

Sorry, brown I meant to say, if it's of any interest - the soy isoflavones I took last cycle, I took CD3-7 50mg/100mg/150mg/200mg/200mg - I was going for a better quality of eggs rather than a greater quantity, hence why CD3-7.

brownstag Mon 19-Nov-12 14:09:18

Ah, no I was thinking of taking it for a different reason, improved implantation.
Although this is in IVF, I thought it couldn't hurt to try it in a natural cycle.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15589851
http://www.fertilityneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_1126.aspx
I must admit it does sound like your latest cycle seems similar to your others. I noticed once before that Mr S hadn't factored in the cycle day when he told me something about my follicles, but I can't remember what that was now.

Pebbles73 Mon 19-Nov-12 14:13:50

I haven't bothered testing again as seem to having af but is bit of a wtf cycle. I have just generally had some brown spotting that is really bitty
(not sure how else to explain it!) and then early yesterday when I went to the toilet I had a blob that came out that was really kind of tissuey. Sorry for the details!!

Brown hope you dont mind me asking why do you think it is still an evaporation line if you have had a positive test twice?

Also can I ask what phytoestrogens are?

Ari good result on your follies although I agree that seeing as you have gone later in the month then they would be around the same size as usual.

Is weird not being straight back on super ov treatment this month as that has become the norm! Will be nice taking a break from the steroids though!

Waves to everyone else.

brownstag Mon 19-Nov-12 14:15:19

Sorry, that should be:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15589851
www.fertilityneighborhood.com/content/in_the_news/archive_1126.aspx
The second one is quite good at explaining the possible mechanism by which they work. Although how the ' competition' theory would work with ripening follicles, I'm not sure. You would have thought they would need the direct effects of oestrodial, but what do I know?

brownstag Mon 19-Nov-12 14:19:08

Pebbles, that does sound a strange AF. Wouldn't it be full on by now? Maybe there's still hope?
My 'positive test' is really only a very faint grey line, only observable by the truly obsessed, namely me. I've had them before and they never lead to anything. sad

holldoll Mon 19-Nov-12 18:14:41

Hi all thanks for the interest.
Have tested again and it is darker but I am getti b a lot of cramps ( not normally a crampy person) so hoping its judg further implantation not my AF coming.
Pebbles - sounds a bit weird? Sure it's not implantation?
Brown - good luck, yours sounds promising. Are you using IC or FRER? I found the IC were giving me funny lines at start.
Probably going to lay low for a bit, desperately trying to keep my sane head on and just get on with it without mentalling too much.

I will lurk and keep my fingers crossed for you guys x x

Havingkittens Mon 19-Nov-12 18:49:00

Hello, I don't post very much these days but thought I'd pop my head in to see how you're all doing.

I'm so sorry to hear about your mc BellyD.

Pebbles and HollDoll, both of your situations sound like they could well be implantation. When I got my BFP I had pinkish discharge and then a brief watery red, then brown bleed. I also had a lot of cramping which I then became convinced was AF coming to piss on my fireworks. I'm now nervously awaiting my anomaly scan on Friday so needless to say, she never showed up!

Ari, I understand why you don't visit the pred thread much. Actually, it seems like nobody does anymore! It's very quiet on there. I feel a bit homeless as the April Antenatal Club thread has been going for 4 months so I feel a bit weird just turning up on that, but it seems like there's nobody to speak to on the pred thread anymore!

BellyD Mon 19-Nov-12 19:12:21

holldoll I think that the cramping is a good thing and definitely combined with a darker line. Fingers crossed for you. Also holding out plenty of hope for Pebbles and Brownstag.

Ari your follie scan sounds promising. Know what you mean about being a few days later for your scan and the size difference. Did they give you the trigger shot at NLC?

Having Kittens good to hear from you and will be thinking of you on Friday. It is another big milestone but hopefully all will be ok and you will be officially halfway.

I am doing ok. Was very weepy yesterday as I thought the bleeding had started but seems to have stopped again today. On another odd note a friend of mine has been prescribed Pred for another health condition and she couldn't get it from the pharmacy today because apparently there is a new type that people have been reacting even more weirdly too. There was a doctors/pharmicists meeting today (not sure which) to decide whether to carry on prescribing the new version. Anyone else heard anything about this?

Pebbles73 Mon 19-Nov-12 20:11:27

I did a test this evening just to be doubly sure was af and it is a definite negative. I guess the first two feint positives must have been down to the dodgy Sainsburys tests and af is just being weird this month.

Holl glad to hear your line is getting stronger and will keep everything crossed for you.

Brown I think we are all pretty obsessed when it comes to hpt's so you are in good company! wink

Great to hear from you Kittens and I wish you lots of luck for your scan. Let us know how you get on. Have you heard how Jaffa is getting on?

I hope things start to move on for you soon Belly.

I will probably be keeping a low profile as I will be off the ttc wagon now until January but will lurk to see how everyone is doing.

holldoll Mon 19-Nov-12 21:29:21

I'm sorry pebbles, that's rubbish. Enjoy your time off and have a relaxing break although I know how hard it is break from this merry go round.
Ari - it does sound very similar to your other cycles - good luck this one though.
Belly - thinking of you. It's a hard time but at least here we all understand.
Kittens - thanks for the info,I never normally get cramps soum hoping its a good sign but we will see. Hope your scan goes well.

I've emailed Louise to get more drugs but now feel like I've jinxed it. Mental
As I said earlier going to lurk for a bit but good luck to everyone

brownstag Tue 20-Nov-12 07:46:33

Holldoll, that sounds very exciting! Really sorry to hear that Pebbles. Mine was also negative today but I wasn't too hopeful. But it does get on my wick that evaporation lines always seem to appear 9 or 10dpo! Maybe I just don't peer so hard on the other days!
Pebbles, phytoestrogens are oestrogen-like substances contained in some plants, soya being a primary one, but also clover, flax, etc. Their effects are complex, because they can act as oestrogens, or block the effects of natural oestrogen.
There's been a debate about the effects of soya for years. Countries where they eat lots of it, like Japan, have lower rates of breast and prostate cancer, maybe because of soya consumption, yet others say genistein and daidzein (2 phytoestrogens) should be avoided in breast cancer. Some sources say they reduce fertility. But there are several studies showing they help, when used in certain ways, like the two I found.
Those two studies have one using it in the follicular phase, and one in the luteal phase. I also found another showing it thickened the endometrium when used in the follicular phase when using Clomid and may combat Clomid's antioestrogenic effects.
Not all the studies are using the same phytoestrogens, though.
ari, do you have any studies into the use of phytoestrogens as an aromatase inhibitor (days 3-7)? I had searched for this before but it seemed all anecdotal, just lots of fertility forum threads. Although the trick is to use the right key terms when looking at scholarly articles and maybe I'm not using them. The world opened up when I stopped searching for 'Clomid' and instead for 'Clomiphene'!

brownstag Tue 20-Nov-12 07:54:22

P.S. I get my AMH results this week. Terrified that it'll be dreadful and everything a waste of time.

brownstag Tue 20-Nov-12 09:27:27

BellyD, I've just emailed my chemist friend for the low-down on the dodgy pred!

BellyD Tue 20-Nov-12 09:58:24

Pebbles and Brownstag sorry to hear your news. A holiday sounds the perfect thing for you, Pebbles. Brownstag fingers crossed for your AMH. I never know what is more relevant, your fsh or your AMH? My fsh is usually rubbish but last time I had my AMH tested it was fairly ok for my age. Does that just mean I am getting pregnant with bad quality eggs? It will be interesting to know what your chemist friend says.

Hello to all the lurkers.

duggs1976 Tue 20-Nov-12 09:58:27

Right I've caught up. Sorry pebblessad
I tested this morning BFN. Is 11 dpo for me today and I used first response early blaaa not even a shadow to mental over just stark white!! This is my 6th SO round. I'll chuck one more in for good luck in Dec before I head off to OZ. I'm not overally impressed with SO. It's rubbish I reckon for people who ovulate normally anyway - more follies doesn't mean anything -( someone tell me in wrong and throw some encouraging/amazing stats this way pls) wink

I used soy isoflavines way back when brown and reckon 2013 I might start again.

brownstag Tue 20-Nov-12 10:35:52

Duggs, sorry, I agree about SO. I suppose because I think it doesn't get to the root of the problem, and although I'm not sure what our problem is exactly, it isn't lack of ovulation. It also alters other things, so maybe it's a step away from conceiving, who knows? One thing I am sure of is that I can't afford any more. I thought Clomid and DHEA would be a cheaper alternative but I'm going back to mother nature from now on. I've also dropped my DHEA dosage as I can't put up with the beard of boils any longer. Wrinkles and acne are just an impossible combination.

brownstag Tue 20-Nov-12 10:36:29

And sorry to hear about the BFN. I didn't realise we were both 11dpo today.

Havingkittens Tue 20-Nov-12 14:47:20

Oh bugger! Sorry to hear of the BFNs sad. Pebbles, I really thought that was going to be good news this time. Damn.

Arianrhod Tue 20-Nov-12 15:15:04

Hi all .. Just a quickie as I'm supposed to be on a conf call at the mo (yawn) ... pebbles and duggs, sorry to hear of the BFNs, what a bugger sad

I do wonder about the benefit of SO for those who ovulate normally too duggs, the only thing I can think of that makes it worth while doing is that you may have more than one chance to get pregnant each month, ie 2 or more follies' worth of eggs. Having said that, even though I did technically get pregnant twice so far, doing SO it hasn't helped me worth a damn to actually get a baby, so still not sure about it. Guess it's my only real hope, given that I can't do IVF, so for now (although the cost is killing me) I have to keep going.

brown I sympathise about the DHEA. I have to say I was rather nervous that I wasn't monitored while taking it and always wondered whether I was doing more damage than good taking it. I think it would be excellent to take if you could be constantly monitored for DHEA-S levels, but I did 5 months of it and saw no difference in pregnancy levels so guess it wasn't for me.

brown I understood AMH to be a better judge of your levels of eggs than the standard LH/FSH/E2 tests, but even so I have read of ladies with apparently rubbish AMH levels still going on to get pregnant successfully, so who knows? I've never had my AMH tested, have thought about it loads of times but then thought it might be such a downer for me if it doesn't look good that it would probably tip me over the edge to give up. So I haven't bothered thus far.

I don't have any info on phytoestrogens, but I'm very interested in what you're finding out brown, keep us posted!

kittens Good to see you on here .. I do still read the pred thread every day, but I just can't contribute anything so taking something of a back seat on there. I'm so darned chuffed for all the ladies for whom this regime has worked so successfully, but given that it hasn't for me personally (yet), I can't really say anything helpful/useful on there at the moment. You can always have a home on here if you want one smile

holl Sounding really positive (if you'll excuse the unintended pun), lots of luck and fingers crossed it carries on being positive!!

belly Sorry to hear your body is taking its time about getting with the plan, is it worth having another acupuncture session? Did you ask your acupuncturist if he/she could explicitly trigger a miscarriage? That's what I did with mine, and boy did she! Very interested to hear about the pred, do you know what kind of 'weird' it was that people found they were experiencing on this other pred?

/waves to everyone

Mel3062 Tue 20-Nov-12 18:11:49

Sorry about the bfns sad xx

cailincusp Wed 21-Nov-12 13:04:21

Just joining here as Duggs kindly sent me the thread having asked the question on my behalf!! Thanks for all super advice on humira... wanted to asked Choccypud how you felt when taking Humira and did you have any side effects... I was told humira stayed in my system for 6 months and then my TNF's rebalance again but anyhow it is months rather than weeks. I am pleased to hear you don;t think it has any effect on subsequent pg's and really looks like you act fast whilst it is in the system in actual fact

Mel3062 Wed 21-Nov-12 18:48:25

Just to say welcome callincusp x

ChoccyPud Wed 21-Nov-12 20:09:24

Just the rather aggressive allergic reaction rash I've described previously...!

brownstag Thu 22-Nov-12 16:58:15

Totally devastated. AMH results back and they couldn't have been worse. 1.5, in the very low/undetectable region. The mystery is solved, and I never thought the answer would be as banal as that. And my FSH was still in the ideal region! I think that's going to be it for us now as there's no point throwing good money after bad. sad

Arianrhod Thu 22-Nov-12 17:38:17

brown So sorry to hear of your results .. this is exactly why I'm not getting my AMH tested. With not great FSH I'm fairly sure my AMH won't be great either. But you know, if you read the Fertility Friends forums there are many stories of women with lower AMH than yours still getting pregnant. Medical science doesn't know everything, clearly. Will you definitely give up on this, or could you perhaps take a little time to think about it? Big hugs to you and whatever you decide remember we're here for you.

Arianrhod Thu 22-Nov-12 17:48:52

brown I just did a quick google on AMH 1.5 and you know, there are LOADS of posts from women who had this or lower and still went on to have a baby, either ICSI, IVF or even naturally. I found this part of a longer post and thought it might help you a bit:

/quote
Plus, as others have mentioned, AMH indicates numbers and not quality so if you are 35 or 40 plus your AMH will be lower.  That is entirely NORMAL and any 40 year old conceiving naturally is likely to have low AMH.  The key is egg quality and, as with everything, some people may be luckier than others in terms of how well their eggies age.  But there ARE things you can do to make sure you produce the healthiest eggs possible and give yourself the best possible chance.
 
Good luck to all and try not to obsess about your AMH!   
/end quote

Havingkittens Thu 22-Nov-12 17:52:34

Brownstag, if it helps at all I had my AMH levels tested in May and they came back 2.04, so also in the low/undetectable range. I was devastated, despondent, hopeless etc. 2 Months later I got pregnant.

brownstag Thu 22-Nov-12 17:59:08

Thanks ari, I appreciate that. My dear little boy kind of understood why I was crying this evening and he drew me two cards, one of a baby and the other of a tray of eggs! I had to laugh.
You know there are two scales for AMH, and my one was the one using larger numbers so 1.5 is probably virtually nothing on the other one. Plus it would have been artifically high because of the DHEA! Christ knows what it'd be like normally!
Obviously I will think about it more but there is a little bit of me that is almost relieved, to be free of this enormous obsession ...

brownstag Thu 22-Nov-12 18:00:46

havingkittens, really? Wow, that does give me some hope. Which scale were they using? On this one 40 to 60 is 'ideal'.

Havingkittens Thu 22-Nov-12 18:10:21

This is how mine reads;

0 - 3.07 - low/undetectable
3.08 -21.97 - low
21.98 - 40.03 - satisfactory
40.04 - 67.9 - Optimal

Arianrhod Thu 22-Nov-12 18:18:21

There you go, same scale as kittens. Who gives us 'oldies' all hope smile

Arianrhod Thu 22-Nov-12 18:21:52

And remember, DHEA doesn't affect AMH - AMH is quantity of eggs not quality, DHEA doesn't give you more eggs, it (sometimes) improves the quality of eggs you have.

brownstag Thu 22-Nov-12 18:58:13

DHEA definitely does increase AMH; there are lots of studies showing that, with graphs smile. Which makes my results all the more horrendous.
How old are you Kittens?

Havingkittens Thu 22-Nov-12 19:03:07

I'm a couple of months off 43.

lemonsherbet Thu 22-Nov-12 19:34:05

brown I thought AMH were meant to guide how aggressively they treat you. I know your levels are low and that is quite devastating but give yourself some time to think about it. Mr S encouraged me to get my AMH levels done and I was gutted when the result came back, but he said they were OK. What did Mr S say about yours? It took me at least a couple of days to get my head around the fact I did not have the fertility of a teenager!

I think it was Choccy who appeared and gave her expert view on my results. Remember it just means that your stores are low, but it only takes one egg.

Arianrhod Thu 22-Nov-12 19:42:13

hmm Ok, I didn't know that about AMH. But I still wouldn't put too much store in the AMH value brown, honestly.

Arianrhod Thu 22-Nov-12 19:42:44

I meant I didn't know that about DHEA. Can't type worth a damn tonight.

brownstag Thu 22-Nov-12 20:02:54

Lemon, I didn't get mine done by Mr S, but a company called DuoFertility. I rang their fertility advisor to discuss the results and she seemed surprised there was so much discrepancy between my FSH (7.8) and my AMH. So it might be worth retesting. Also my results had been delayed as there was some kind of problem and they had had to send them to a different lab. She was going to find out what that problem was and whether it might have affected the results.
Incidentally, she said normal for a woman of my age was 3 to 9.
But I also googled AMH and endo and find crap AMH is highly correlated with stage of endo, of which I have the worst stage.
Assuming these results are right, I don't think I can face the panic and desparation of ttc in the face of dwindling egg supplies ... knowing I really need IVF and can't afford it.

jaffajiffy Fri 23-Nov-12 05:46:55

Hi there. Old poster here lurking from time to time. I wanted to encourage you, brown, that a low amh isn't the end. Mine was 0.67 (same scale as kittens) in sep 2010 and I have conceived twice since then, both times via super ov. I was devastated when that result came through, so I understand your concern, but both mr S and my acupuncturist were not concerned at all.

Wishing each of you on here well x

Mel3062 Fri 23-Nov-12 06:29:03

Think ill go buy some dhea but doesn't mr s not rate it? How much should you take?
I'm sure the levels change I remeber being told I was premenopausal but then the next month it was better as it wasn't long after mc.
Those ladies who have had the tnf test, how early in themorning can you have blood taken? Is it just 1 tube? I live in York but hubby goes to Harley st once a fortnight but leaves at 1.30 am so don't know if I could get someone to take blood that early then him drop it off at 7 am or if it won't be any good. I can see me just going to London again :/ why can't they do it at Surrey?
Another tough time on this page this week so wishing you all a lovely weekend, hugs and strength in whatever you all decide xx waves

brownstag Fri 23-Nov-12 07:23:10

Thank you everyone for your support. All night I was tossing and turning dreaming about AMH.
mel, mine come from Vitasunn, they take a couple of weeks to arrive from the US. Most studies use 75mg, but I started on 50mg to see what happened. On 75mg I have bad acne, including on the scalp and very itchy, increased sex drive, vivid dreams, increased fertile CM, better sleep and a feeling of well-being. I probably only had all these benefits because I was actually premenopausal I now realise!
Yes, I think it's about 4 or 5 stops on one line from Charing Cross to Regent's Park (Bakerloo?), then you turn left, cross over one small road and the next road on your left is Harley Street. The tube part takes about 10 or 15 mins and the walk about ten mins tops.
What I don't understand is that if there's a correlation between reduced ovarian reserve, low AMH and endometriosis, why when I google endometriosis and early menopause nothing comes up?

BellyD Fri 23-Nov-12 10:00:16

Brownstag I know you are disappointed with your results but a friend of mine who is in the same situation as us conceived her daughter naturally after finding out her AMH was 0.something. It definitely can happen. Also panic over about the dodgy Pred from my post a couple of days ago. I saw my friend yesterday and she is taking suppository ones, so not the same type as us.

Havingkittens Fri 23-Nov-12 10:24:32

Brownstag, I think you should wait until you get a chance to have a chat with Mr S before getting too worried. I really was in despair about mine and made my own assumptions based on the ranges quoted. All of my results were in the lower end of what they should be, or in the case of FSH, higher. I then gave myself a talking to and reminded myself that I was a Make up artist trying to draw my own conclusions from my results and what I really needed was a doctor, at the very least! Mr S was far less concerned than I was and put me on a combination of Tamoxifen and Gonal-F, which worked.

brownstag Fri 23-Nov-12 11:27:01

Thanks BellyD and HavingKittens. I will talk to Mr S again. I now have a vague date for my laparascopy, early January, so I will have that, and then talk to Mr S again. I am hoping to get another FSH test at my doctor's on Monday. What I don't understand is why I've responsed reasonably well to letrozole before, 1 follie on 5mg and 4 on 7.5mg. Shouldn't I be a 'poor responder' with such rubbish AMH?

lemonsherbet Fri 23-Nov-12 11:32:11

hi brown been having a google look. Apparently AMH is very temperature sensitive so needs to be transported/analysed in the right way. In view of the problems they had with your sample could this be the cause of your result?

AMH levels tend to be lower in people with endo but also fluctate eg in response to surgery. Your FSH is good and some places put more stock in this than the AMH. You are responding well to SO which I would take as a good sign.

lemonsherbet Fri 23-Nov-12 11:34:33

also recommend a chat with Mr S, or could you telephone Louise and see what she says

brownstag Fri 23-Nov-12 11:57:39

Thanks Lemon, I did wonder about the sample, but I thought I was clutching at straws. I sent it on a Thursday and as far as I know it wasn't analysed until the following Wednesday. I don't know how long it took in transit; knowing Royal Mail lately it could have taken several days first class.
Thanks so much everyone; it really helps to have you here when I'm feeling so low.

LJ71 Fri 23-Nov-12 20:17:39

Hi everyone

Just a quick post to say I've not been on here for ages as we've been mega stressed and busy at home, with us both starting new jobs, moving house tomorrow and my dh has been really poorly. All of which have led to us not dtd at the right time - so new news at all.

Big hugs BellyD - we went through our mc's together in July, so sorry you are going through it again.

In some ways, I'm focussing on moving and sorting out my financial situation, and its been quite nice not to worry about conceiving. It may well be time for us to stop trying now anyway. If we do, we'll just try one more - 7 mcs and the cost make that a definite.

Brown - I'll pm you xxxxx

duggs1976 Sun 25-Nov-12 08:19:36

Just posted on Pred thread - 6th SO cycle over and no luck. No natural pregnancy since starting dr s programme in July 2011 sad going it alone in 2013 - NK cells were normal in may according to dr g so don't think dr s has solution for me! Will still pop in here ...wishing you the very best of luck ladies x

lemonsherbet Sun 25-Nov-12 13:06:43

duggs sorry that 6th SO cycle did not work. I hope you do not leave this thread. It will not be the same without you even if you are not continuing with Mr S, we do share alot of other info on here.

Belly How is the backache going? any news on the repeat scan?

Holl hope everything is going OK feel free to post

brown ari hope you are having a good weekend.

Waves to anyone have missed

holldoll Sun 25-Nov-12 18:09:23

Duggs - good luck in 2013

Lemon - thanks for asking. Ok at mo, just waiting and trying not to wish time away. Scan not till 7/12/12 so 2 weeks away still. interestingly I am not mentalling anywhere near as much I have previously so I am feeling in a much better place this time.
Going back to lurking again!

hope everyone has had a good weekend

Mel3062 Mon 26-Nov-12 06:01:51

Well looks like the so cycle no 6 hasn't worked for me either got bfn so expect af thurs. it's so heartbreaking sad now debating when to take month off steroids. Don't think ill make it dec as it makes sense to have scan when I go for tnf alpha test what do you think ladies? Do you have to totally stop trying for a month? X

brownstag Mon 26-Nov-12 10:29:30

Sorry to hear of your BFN, Mel. And good luck with going au naturel Duggs and everyone else with the treatment.
I'm also probably not going to be on here much now. I've moved from being stunned by my AMH result to realising that it does explain everything, so for me, the mystery is solved. I'm still going to retest, still going to have my laparoscopy and also see Mr S one last time in January, but really I think that is it now. I realise now that it was less a wonder that I'm not currently conceiving than that I ever had a child at all. It always has made me feel a bit guilty that I was trying for no. 2 when so many of you are still trying for no. 1.
My last little 'research gift' to any of you who are still trying to work out what's wrong is that of homocysteine.
Google it: it might be relevant, who knows? High levels of it are implicated in infertility, miscarriage and all manner of pregnancy problems. The good thing about it is that it's theoretically easily fixable, with specific vitamins. I know a lot of you are veggie and vegetarians/vegans have higher levels of homocysteine. I read a whole book on it by Patrick Holford (for anyone who's read Bad Science by Ben Goldacre, alarm bells may start ringing at the mention of his name, but it is a real phenomenon, honestly!)

Arianrhod Mon 26-Nov-12 12:46:19

Morning ladies ... So sorry to hear that your 6th cycles haven't worked, duggs and mel. It's a bugger to keep on going when even ovulation support medication doesn't seem to make a difference.

brown Interesting about high homocysteine being an issue - being one of those who is MTHFR homozygous I am already taking l-methylfolate which brings down high homocysteine levels. Hope your lap gives you some hope, I do understand where you're coming from.

/waves to everyone, hope you're all doing well.

BellyD Mon 26-Nov-12 19:32:00

Duggs and Mel so sorry that the SO has not done the trick for you. Let's hope going au naturel does the trick for you in 2013 Duggs it has got to be better for your body. Will keep everything crossed for you. Brownstag I hope that having a retest of your AMH and your lap provide positive news and that Mr S has words of wisdom when you see him in Jan. You should not feel the slightest bit guilty about wanting to complete your family when some of us are trying to have our first, you are just at a different but equally important stage of this difficult journey.

Thanks for your kind words LJ - I very much hope that next time everything works out for you.

Went for another scan today. The fetus has shrunk but the pregnancy sac has shown no sign of collapsing so they advised to sit it out for another two weeks to see if anything happens. If not they will probably recommend an ERPC. I am as happy as I can be with that advice. I would love to have it all resolved well before Christmas so that we can just enjoy ourselves and start to plan what we will try in 2013.

Waves to all, lurkers included x

brownstag Tue 27-Nov-12 14:25:53

I really hope things get a move on for you, Belly.
Well, I just had my repeat FSH test results from my GP's. 9.7. It was taken on day 1, not sure if that makes a difference, but my last one was too, in January, when it was 7.8. Obviously things are going downhill rapidly, but still not too horrendous? They considered it 'normal, no action', anyway. Does anyone else have non-correlating FSH and AMH results?

Arianrhod Tue 27-Nov-12 14:42:23

brown Bear in mind that FSH levels can (and do) fluctuate to a degree from month to month. As far as I recall 9.7 is still a good level for FSH, mine is much worse ... !

Breezyweezy Tue 27-Nov-12 18:22:09

Delurking to say, Brown, my FSH and AMH results are non-correlating too. Had them done on day 1 back in June and results were very low/untetectable AMH 0.63 with FSH 5.6. Total shock to me (something that I am still finding hard to believe almost 6 months later). Mr S was taken aback too as I am 34 so not the result he, or I, expected. He suggested SO, which so far has been a complete waste of time and money, but I am just starting month 4 on a higher dose of letrozole after a crap month 3 (1 follicle after 2 the previous 2 months on 5mg), so I will try to remain open-minded and positive that it could happen - yeah right! I find the whole SO thing such a chore as it is a nightmare to get an appointment for a scan on the day you need to go.
Also as an aside, I went to a few initial consults for IVF and one was with Dr Gorgy. He told me that there is a connection between low AMH and NKC activity but I haven't found much information about this on Dr Google. Interesting since I have v high NKCs. He wanted me to have futher NKC testing done, but he overwhelmed me with his list of tests and possible treatments and I'm embarrassed to say I haven't been back to see him since. He didn't see the ridiculously low AMH as a stumbling block and said they would use the highest stimms possible to get the most eggs. However, another clinic said they would probably recommend mild or natural cycle IVF in the hope of getting a few eggs. Two completely different opinions!

Duggs and Mel sorry to hear SO hasn't worked for you. Let's hope 2013 and going it alone is the way forward and works for you both.

Belly sorry to hear about your mc and I hope things get moving for you sooner rather than later. I certainly admire your patience in waiting for things to happen naturally and avoiding an unnecessary ERPC. Patience is not one of my strong points!

Kittens fantastic news on a great scan. I'm so happy for you!

Waves to all.

brownstag Wed 28-Nov-12 08:13:08

Thanks Breezy, that's very interesting and I can imagine what a shock your AMH must be at your age. From what I read, though, you're still in a much better position than someone older with the same low AMH, because your eggs are younger, though I'm sure that doesn't feel like much of a consolation.
I need to ask someone, like Mr S, whether this low AMH means an early menopause is on the cards, or whether it's possible to hang about in this rubbish state for some time, particularly when FSH is okay. Do you know what age your mother went through menopause? Daughters are meant to follow suit, and that just doesn't fit in my case because my mother was 55. I've been thinking about it and the ovaries are only one part of the whole system, after all, with the hypothalamus being another, and maybe with our FSH being okay, the hypothalamus 'thinks' everything's okay. It may be different if there is a specific disease state or condition that causes the low AMH in the ovaries, like NKC activitiy or endometriosis. I'm clutching at straws here! My problem is that I often come up with these theories and then can't remember if I've read them or made them up.
Would you take DHEA? Not that I've been a great advert for it! But even if I give up ttc, I'm going to carry on taking it, prob 25mg, because I feel so much better on it. Maybe it's worth trying it for a few months and then restesting the AMH (via a cheap online test).

Breezyweezy Wed 28-Nov-12 10:19:49

Brown to be honest, I find the whole low AMH thing almost unbelievable. I wish Mr S had never done the test. When he gave me the results I didn't even know I had had it tested so it was a double shock!!

From everything I have read, low AMH would seem to indicate early menopause, but there doesn't seem to be anything out there about low AMH and perfect FSH. My periods have gone from 28 days to 26 in the past 18 months since my last mc but they are as regular as clockwork and since I chart, I know I ovulate just about every month. I asked my mum about when she went through the menopause and she said at about 45-46, so not that young. I find it ironic as I have 2 sisters, one older, one younger, who have always had problems with their periods. Both late starters, one was told she would never have kids as she didn't ovulate and had very irregular periods. She now has 3 kids. The other had hypothalamic amenorrhea (complete lack of periods) due to excessive exercise - she'd run a half marathon every day the lunatic!! She was told she'd done irreparable harm to her ovaries, but 3 months after stopping running, putting on 2 stone and a course of clomid she got pg and now has a gorgeous 8 month old girl. I on the other hand have always had regular periods and seemed to get pg quite quickly (within 3-6 months) and now nothing in the past 12 months.

The only thing the consultants that I saw for IVF agreed on was taking DHEA 75mg a day. I have some sitting in the cupboard but have not taken them yet. I had my testosterone and DHEA measured and they are fine, but I made the mistake of asking Louise one day and she said that she and Mr S do not recommend taking it at all. I just don't know. I am taking so many different drugs and supplements that I actually wonder whether that isn't the problem. My previous 3 pg and subsequent mc I was only taking a preconception vitamin and that was it!

Sorry for the ridiculously long post!

Arianrhod Wed 28-Nov-12 10:38:27

breezy Just chiming in here, I asked Mr S about DHEA once and he said he had tried some women on it previously and never found it made any difference at all, so he doesn't recommend it. If you have your DHEA and testosterone regularly checked, then there cannot be any harm in taking it, I would have said? I took it for 5 months but unmonitored, which is why I stopped taking it in the end, as I was very nervous of it unbalancing my estrogen/testosterone balance. I have also wondered if taking too many supplements etc might be a problem, but then I know exactly what everything I take does, and I cannot see what I take could have an adverse effect.

I do wonder how you can have low AMH but perfect FSH, seems a bit of a mystery to me (and I am talking from the ignorance of never having had the fright of having my AMH tested. I can't believe it would be a good level if I did.). Remember you can be perimenopausal for 10 years sometimes, so even if that is the case it still doesn't mean you're not fertile - it may just mean you have less eggs than someone younger. Doesn't mean the eggs you do have are all bad, just that there are less of them. My mother tells me she started menopause proper around age 55; I'm only 44, so theoretically I shouldn't be heading for that just yet.

Seems all a bit hit and miss to me, which is rubbish sad

brownstag Wed 28-Nov-12 10:59:22

Just a quick post in reply about DHEA, though I will reply more fully later, but since I have been taking DHEA my oestrogen levels have gone up from 101 in January (pre-DHEA) to 160 this month. Is this good or bad for fertility?
Just had my hair cut too and far from having less hair, my hairdresser told me my hair was thicker, and said 'I don't know what you're doing, but carry on doing it'! DHEA and Co-enzyme Q10 are the two supplements that I'm personally sure I feel better taking. If you find you have side effects you could always reduce it. I have only benefits on 50mg, but bad acne on 75mg.

Arianrhod Wed 28-Nov-12 11:53:03

I don't know if this helps or hinders, but I just found this very interesting article about DHEA: http://www.fertileheart.com/576/

I was looking up another article on there on low AMH/high FSH, also very interesting. The website is by the author of 'Inconceivable', which possibly several of you may have read (I have it, I just haven't read it yet).

brownstag Wed 28-Nov-12 19:03:17

Thanks Ari, I have seen those Fertile Heart posts, but I've always got suspicious of them, that they're trying to sell me something, so not finished. They start by telling you their story and end by how doing something Fertile-Heart-related saved the day.
Breezy, a friend of mine also started puberty and her periods late (16), which was mortifying for her at the time, but she's the friend who's pregnant at nearly 43 with no trouble, so maybe starting late can be an advantage. Also, just before conceiving her second child, she'd had a day 3 test, and was told her testosterone was high, but it obviously did her no harm. Also, from what I've read, testosterone may used directly (instead of DHEA) in the future to help develop follicles, so I'm not particularly worried by testosterone being too high from taking DHEA.
Having said that, Mr S told me not to take DHEA too, because of the risk of bladder cancer. Something I haven't come across in the literature.

Mel3062 Thu 29-Nov-12 05:39:49

Well af arrived yesterday v painful so I've booked the tnf test for the 11th and having scan at same time. Do you have to go back for the results? When you have month off steroids does that mean you can't try?? X hope everyone's ok

brownstag Thu 29-Nov-12 16:14:29

Sorry, I don't know much about the scan, but I would have thought they would advise you not to try because without the steroids you're more likely to miscarry if you do conceive. But I would probably try anyway!

brownstag Thu 29-Nov-12 16:14:54

Sorry, not the scan, I meant the test.

Arianrhod Sun 02-Dec-12 10:20:50

Morning ladies .. Well, that's a big fat raspberry for my 6th SO cycle too, 12dpo and not even a hint of a hint of a line. Probably not going to do SO this next cycle due to costs of Christmas, DD's 6th birthday and her school fees all due within the next month .. I can't do £335 of SO on top of it all. Looks like this third Christmas won't be our chance of a baby either.

lemonsherbet Sun 02-Dec-12 10:30:37

ari sorry to hear that. How many SO cycles does Mr S recommend thought it was 6? Christmas is a tough time since it seems so children centred and for many of us significant anniversaries.

Arianrhod Sun 02-Dec-12 11:54:49

It was lemon but Mr S said since I am getting pregnant on SO (twice) I can carry on doing it.

Mel3062 Tue 04-Dec-12 06:15:45

Sorry to hear that ari sad x

brownstag Fri 07-Dec-12 20:09:13

Sorry, Ari.
Well, I got my new AMH results: a staggering 2.1!
Totally rubbish, of course, but there's always the possibility that the increase was due to DHEA, in which case it could increase more. I'm now on 4 months and isn't that how long it takes for new follicles to grow through?
ari, do you take selenium?
I suppose I'm just not ready to give up yet; my AMH results floored me at first but I've got up now and dusted myself off. I just keep moving the goalposts. Louise advised me to do more superovulation, and to get on with it.
How is everyone? It seems a bit quiet on here.

Mel3062 Sat 08-Dec-12 10:53:44

Going for my tnf alpha test Tuesday!! X brownstag good luck all we can do is brush ourself off and look forward!!

Breezyweezy Sat 08-Dec-12 21:08:35

Brown sorry to hear about your second AMH result, but good to see it has gone up. Only slightly I know, but it has to be a little encouraging. I too am wondering about having mine re-tested. I am popping in to pick up my next SO prescription on Monday so may ask Louise. After last time though, I think I would be scared that it has gone down even more, well as much as you can go down from 0.63!!

Still undecided about the DHEA (don't want acne and excess facial hair!!), though your result does encourage me. Realised that the stuff I have is not the micronised version (apparently only available online from the US) and Dr G was adamant that this was the one I should take. Is the one you are taking Brown, the micronised version? I have started on Co-q10 today after reading various threads on FF about it also being good for egg quality. Some have said their IVF clinics are advising them to take 600mg/day so I will try that and hope that is doesn't have any adverse effects! I also take Selenium (200μg) and Magnesium (250mg) as I read on the Pred thread that it helps with your lining - think it was Freelancegirl that said it and I believe Ari was on them too together with a whole load of other supplements!! And yep, Brown that was the advice I was given from Dr S and Louise too!

Mel good luck for the tnf alpha test. I had that last month and thank goodness it came back normal. The first test I have had back with a normal result for a while!!

Have a good weekend all.

Breezyweezy Sat 08-Dec-12 21:10:45

Ari forgot to say, sorry to hear that your 6th SO cycle was unsuccessful but glad to hear Mr S says you can carry on with it.

Mel3062 Sun 09-Dec-12 06:46:43

Thanks breezy weezy I'm not sure how I feel as mr s says people get pregnant after humira so I want that to happen even though the injections are expensive!! At least that would be another reason why it's not happening?! If that makes sense?! But yes a negative result would be good I guess ?! X

brownstag Sun 09-Dec-12 14:16:40

Good luck Mel.

BreezyWeezy, I've also just ordered selenium and magnesium, from my own researches. I'll look later to see if my DHEA is micronised. I haven't had any extra facial hair, even though I'm dark, and the acne is controllable with benzoyl peroxide. The benefits of good sleep, thicker hair and a feeling of mental well-being/ability to cope with more stress far outweigh the acne, or else I probably wouldn't take it.

I'm actually glad I had the AMH test now because I really do feel I know what the problem is now and what I've got to do. I used to think to myself, why would I get pregnant at 41 if I hadn't at 40, or 39? But now I do feel that I am more likely to get pregnant at 41, because of the DHEA. My AMH must have been non-existent for the last two years before I started it.

Ari, I know you've always wanted to avoid the test, but I would really think about it. I'm not going to waste my time and energy now on anything that isn't related to improving my AMH and egg quality. And essentially that boils down to 4 things: DHEA, coenzyme q10, selenium and magnesium.
Although I am in a different boat from you, as you do have recurrent miscarriage, so you have got more issues to cover.

If there's one benefit of secondary infertility, it's that it's cured my recurrent miscarriage problem! grin

brownstag Sun 09-Dec-12 14:23:36

P.S. Very interesting the discussion about the 'unfussy uterus' in recurrent miscarriage (was that on the other thread?) That certainly applies to my good friend LJ71. (Mine is the Womb of Supreme Fastidiousness, on the other hand.)

Arianrhod Mon 10-Dec-12 09:01:45

Hi ladies ... brown yes I do take selenium, it helps with a few things. Good to hear your AMH has crept up a bit, although I understand it's still not where you'd like it!

The DHEA I took was micronized, I read that's the best type to take. I did myself get more facial hair - I'm blonde, so fortunately it didn't really show to anyone other that me peering in the mirror!!, but definitely there - 'moustache' area, but also chin, eek! And it's gone since I stopped taking the DHEA, so that must have been the cause. Also the major hair loss that I was getting while taking it has stopped. I didn't get the better sleep (but I sleep well anyway) or extra energy levels that you got brown - I would say it sounds like it is definitely helping you, whereas I would say it didn't for me. I'm glad you feel more positive about having taken the test brown, but for me, I'm already taking 600mg Co-Q10, selenium, and every other supplement under the sun (except DHEA), so I couldn't do anything different (other than worry more) if my AMH is low, which of course it will be.

Yes it's on the pred thread, the discussion about the 'unfussy womb' syndrome, which is what I think I have. Doesn't help a great deal with the stress levels!! I don't seem to have an infertility issue (which is just as well, with the large number of other issues I do have!) but I think my body is too ready to accept any old pregnancy, at least initially.

I'm not doing SO this month, as I think I mentioned, due to the cost basically, and I'm honestly in two minds whether to start it up again. I know I'm getting double the chance of getting pregnant every month, which has to be a good thing ... but it's £335 a month, every month, and that's a heck of a lot of money for me. I just don't know if I can afford to keep going, to be honest. I may take a couple of months off, Dec and Jan (two paydays!), and then think again. I imagine I will start it again, just for the chance, but the ££ is hard sad

Good luck with the TNF alpha test Mel, I hope it comes back with the answer you want!

breezy Did Mr S not suggest taking Co-Q10 when you first saw him? He did to me, so I've been taking it ever since, although I only upped it to the level I'm on now (600mg) since reading about the benefits on the FF board some months back. Goodness knows if it's doing any good, but it certainly can't do any harm. Ditto with the resveratrol and pycnogenol - recommended by a lot of American REs, and it can't do any harm (except to my bank balance, ouch!) so I take those too.

/waves to everyone

brownstag Mon 10-Dec-12 12:40:10

That's interesting that Mr S recommended coenzyme q10. What dose did he suggest? I was taking 200mg from healthspan as they are gelatine free, but they're £24 for 60 tablets, which I've now upped to two a day, even though it should be 3 really, but I can't afford it.
Re. the DHEA, would you not consider 25mg or less a day? I'm just thinking of its help with prevention of 'ordinary' miscarriage and improving egg quality but without the side effects. I sometimes go down to 50mg for a bit to have a break from the outbreaks.
What I would be interested to know is how long DHEA continues to exert any benefit as no one seems to have done any long-term studies. If I take it for a year will my AMH still be rising? Could one artificially recreate a normal ovarian environment eventually? And of course there is the theoretical long-term risk of oestrogen-dependent cancers, although no one in my family has had anything like that.
What effects have you had from selenium? And do you take magnesium? At least the two of those supplements are relatively cheap!

brownstag Mon 10-Dec-12 12:40:43

Meant to say, since taking coenzyme q10 my luteal phase has been longer.

Arianrhod Mon 10-Dec-12 14:12:43

He didn't suggest a dose, just told me to take it, so I did my own research, unsurprisingly! DHEA - no, I don't think so, not without having my DHEA-S and testosterone levels monitored. It can do bad things, as well as good, and if I don't know what it's doing to me I don't want to be taking it, if you see what I mean. I have seen people saying they took it for 6 months before having success - but no way of knowing whether that was down to the DHEA or not, I guess. I don't know about long-term use - but again, if you're being monitored it should be fine, I would think?

Magnesium I don't take separately, but my super-multivit contains 60mg magnesium already. No effects at all from the selenium, that I can tell; I've been taking it since March this year.

Arianrhod Mon 10-Dec-12 14:14:30

Interesting about your LP brown; it had no effect on mine, which is a constant 13 days. Agnus castus didn't have any effect on that either, but I know it did have some effect because for the two months I haven't been taking it I haven't felt ovulation pains at all (and I usually do feel them in spades!). Plus usually on AC my bbs hurt like heck in the lead-up to AF; for the past two months, only a little. I've started taking it again for the moment until I decide what I'm doing with SO.

Mel3062 Tue 11-Dec-12 12:33:58

Thanks ladies tnf test done left at 3.40 am and still 10 minutes late for 9am appt!! I'm not sure what is the right result all I want is a baby sad xx I know what you mean about expense today's cost about £570 sad

lemonsherbet Thu 13-Dec-12 09:26:22

Ari have you seen the new pregacare max they contain activated folate in them. Admittedly they are not keep approx 20 pounds per a month supply. I know you like to make up your own cocktail but thought I would point it out to you.

Brown sorry about the AMH result but at least it has improved slightly and people with lower have had success on this thread.

Mel I know what you mean about the expense of blood tests, was a bit like that with AMH and it was still cheaper than the TNF blood test.

Waves to breezy hol and anyone else who is lurking.

Arianrhod Thu 13-Dec-12 10:32:04

Hey lemon ... that's interesting that they've done that with pregnacare, good on them. Maybe they're understanding finally that folate is needed for all sorts of things in pregnancy, better than folic acid.

/waves to everyone

Arianrhod Fri 21-Dec-12 10:32:00

All very quiet in here at the moment ... anyone still doing SO, in the 2WW, waiting for follie scan, or like me, just taking a bit of a break for a month or so? (financially-induced, in my case!)

And in case any are on here and not also on the Pred thread ... may your Christmas be jolly, may Santa bring you a ray of hope in your Christmas stocking, and may your 2013 be a damn sight better than your 2012, if 2012 wasn't a good one for you! grin

Mel3062 Fri 21-Dec-12 18:48:35

Same to you ari I'm just waiting for my tnf results xx

Pebbles73 Sat 22-Dec-12 13:40:08

Hello all just wanted to pop in to wish everyone a very lovely Christmas and hoping that your dreams come true in 2013, you all so deserve it. smile
Just been trying to catch up on all the news on here as not lurked for a while, sorry to see there have been no pregnancies on the super ov and sorry for your amh results Brown. I see you are taking a break .Ari like myself, although I am considering taking letrezole and just trying without the ovitrelle and scan. Having said that I have enjoyed not taking any drugs and being off the ttc wagon. Do you think you will do more super ov after Xmas?
Mel good luck with the tnf- alpha results, Mr S has my results but can't afford to go and see him at the mo as need all money for our hols. The result has obviously come back as high as Cheryl said she could only give me results by email if the result was low and came back saying I needed to make an appointment. So looks like humira for me, the cost of that on top of ivf is worrying to say the least. hmm

After last Christmas when I was just going through the end of my miscarriage I have found it hard this year and can't say I feel very festive. I think some of you have had miscarriages around Christmas so hope you are all holding up.

Anyway big waves to you all.xx

Mel3062 Sat 22-Dec-12 19:44:51

Aw pebbles I don't know if a high result meaning you can then have humira is good or bad! Bad as in cost I know! Ill email Louise as I need to know if I need to book a train and itl be 2 weeks on Xmas day that I had it done.
My baby would've been due Xmas day so not feeling festive either, not even got tree up yet as had a virus all week sad
Happy Xmas though ladies and here's to a better new year xxx

Pebbles73 Sun 23-Dec-12 09:09:59

That's exactly how I feel Mel but then you always get that bit of hope that it will be the answer. Felt like that about taking steroids for high nkc 's but all that did for me was another chemical pregnancy....

So sorry to hear you were due Xmas day, you must be feeling pretty crap and wanting to ignore Christmas completely. Sending you big hugs.x

Arianrhod Mon 24-Dec-12 08:51:44

pebbles At least they may have found something that is an answer for you - I do hear you about the cost though sad.

Mel Sorry to hear about your impending would-have-been date, it really does cast a damper on things. The last two Christmasses I was going through a miscarriage, this Christmas there is no sign of anything.

pebbles I don't know if I will carry on with SO after this 'break' month. OH doesn't appear at all interested in us having a baby, not that he's ever shown a great deal of interest, and I feel like not only am I banging my head against the age brick wall, I'm the only person in this relationship who actually wants a baby. Why throw away £335 every month just to try to do something alone? I'm really not sure, but it's not looking likely. What are you plans, are you lining up more IVF?

/waves to everyone

brownstag Mon 24-Dec-12 10:20:06

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everyone. I haven't been on here for a while but am oddly feeling quite positive about 2013. Big hugs to everyone. I really know how you feel, ari. My OH (who is currently in bed with Norovirus, poor thing) now considers the whole thing at an end ever since I told him my AMH results.
Pebbles, I know the result means a hideous extra cost, but personally, knowing what my problem is has brought me some kind of peace of mind and you might find the same after a while. I don't feel I'm forever searching any more.
Well, I've got a pre-op assessment for my lap and dye on 28th Dec, so that if a space becomes available on either the 3rd or 10th Jan I can have it then. But only if there's a cancellation. And assuming the whole hospital isn't closed down with winter vomiting bug. Then got app with Mr S on 28th Jan.
May we all win the lottery this Christmas and sort out the whole financial burden of all this treatment! Perhaps we should start a syndicate ;) xx

Mel3062 Mon 24-Dec-12 12:38:59

Well I'm ill with a flu like virus got sent home twice last week sad my tnf test has come back high so needs treating so Surrey on the 3rd for the tb test then humira... Joy!! X