Mumsnet Talk

Its true, NGCECOAWT, so the BESH move on.

Join us in spooky October, for a different sort of Pagen fun. Sod the lentil weaving and organic bean bags, we're channelling pointy black hats, green tinged foundation and probably a bit of Harry Potter.

Join us for cursing of the insta-diffs, moments of pure love and the horrors of the cam of the fanjo - post the Beshtionnaire and the coven will judge you.

This is not a woo thread (TINAWT)

<Draws wonky pentagram on floor>

And a spooky name change.

Spooky.

Woo :D

Boo!

<hangs a monkey's paw on the door>

How about ArielTheEvilWitchFromHell?

Too much?

ArielDaughterOfRocky? Still have massive swollen minging eyes.

ArielTheBarrenOldBag? (just attention seeking now)

Fab OP sinky, I'm never witty enough!

Yes, sorry forgott that bit. Fab op!

<Treads on wonky pentagram, making it wonkier>

How do I namechange?

This should really be on TWTOWNGC (The Woo Thread Of Which No Good Came) but I went to see a new acu lady this morning. I liked her. Even if she has banned me from eating spicy food.

And Droid is finally calming down a bit. Which is good. I was beginning to worry I would have no blood left!

Ooooooohhh! Morning all! <sticks on pointy hat and pouts pumpkin juice>

Accio BFPs!

Nice Fred title Sinks <dons pointy hat>

This could be the Fred that I start my IVF.

<passes Rie cucumber soaked eye mask>

Nice Fred title Sinks <dons pointy hat>

This could be the Fred that I start my IVF.

<passes Rie cucumber soaked eye mask>

Excellent fred start, sinks. Has the peacock feather cabbage hat skirt thing finally been retired? <hopeful>

<stirs cauldron with an ancient pissed-on stick> Soup, anyone?

A fred to match my mood. Horrah!! Well done sinks.

I have returned from a weekend at Centreparcs with a load of vodka drinking, cake making women who were all luffly except the twat who calls herself my friend who was very rude to me on Saturday to make herself look better. There were 2 differs on the trip, one instadiffer who managed it on her honeymoon and another who scoffed at me when i offered her a hot water and lemon as she felt sick because it was 'morning sickness' and I clearly have no idea what that is. Stuck up bitch.

How is everyone doing today?

What a stupid cow! <performs evil spell to give her hyperemesis>

I'm doing ok. Have left work early, absolutely shattered and full of headache. Going home for soup and a novel about a witch! What excellent timing.

northey I quite possibly luff you.

When are you coming near me for a meet up? <stern>

Bitch!

(Bugger's friend obv)

As soon as either work says I need to, or I can persuade them I do!

What did the other bitch do?

And how are your eyes, piraticalwitch?

Terrible thanks! <cheerful> I want to scratch them out, but I don't think that would be useful in the long run. Doc's tomorrow to demand she does something.

What has caused it? It sounds horrid

Are you feeling any less awful about Christmas and cold houses and shit?

Some random allergen. Will ask the GP if she thinks I could do with an epipen. I don't want to to be miles from anywhere and it happen again.

Slightly less awful thank you. MrA has not mentioned Christmas again as I think he is scared I need him to sort it all out (though why on earth shouldn't he?)

What's your witch novel?

I've only just started it and can't remember the title, but it's a Philippa Gregory one. A young nun has just fled her convent and been taken in by the local wise woman. I think she's going to end up married to the local wicked Lord or something. And be a secret witch.

<pokes head round door, hands round glasses of Plymouth gin and smoked salmon blinis, has a sneaky grope and chucks Benedict Cumberbatch into Pit>

Is it "A Discovery of Witches"?

Sinky I've read that book - thought it was great. Am waiting for my friend to finish the second one now.

Oooh, I'm going to get it. I could do with some good reads.

What do the BESH think of Philippa Gregory in general? <has no faith in own taste and discernment emoticon>

Nope, it appears to be called "A Wise Woman."

When do the bodices get ripped, is what I want to know?

I have discovered P Greg about ten years after everyone else (which is great, because I can feed my addiction in charity shops). I quite like her stuff. It's all historical, told through the eyes of a female character, generally.

Don't know how "good" it's considered, but I wouldn't be ashamed to be seen reading it on the bus.

What's te other witchy one like? Worth looking out for?

Ignore that. Xpost. Tis a good book though. Second ones rubbish though. Bit like a cross between twilight, 50 shades and a history book.

But I am going to read the 3rd when it comes out! Jethro- if your friends a slow reader, want mine?

I like Philippa Gregory, though I've only read a few of her books.

In the same vein, Alison Weir is very good. She's a proper historian with several published non-fiction books, but decided to try out a bit of historical fiction. I've only read one of her books, Innocent Traitor (about Lady Jane Grey) but it is very good.

Er, blonde - I think you'll find I chucked Mr Cumberbatch into the Pit sometime ago and stamped his forehead "Reserved For Frankel"

I totally love history but it doesn't half prompt some crappy novels. The worst one I have read was called Lady of the Roses about Sir John Neville's wife Isabelle. It was so shit I can't begin to describe its shitness.

I read some fabulous shit once where an early medieval maid was enjoying Christmas celebrations which included not only a tree with candles and paper chains, but also a rousing chorus of "Deck The Halls With Boughs Of Holly."

I've cloned him. Enough to go round.

Hello - I am back, can I have some of the Cumbercatch clones? I think my body has caught on to the MC, I am horny I seem to be ovulating.

Sorry about the headache, norf, did work go okay otherwise?

Waves at the witches and pleased we've left that shit-fred behind (even if it was ALSO the one with my BFP). Well done to sinky for the new one. And fanks.

You can have as many as you like, all drizzled with lemon. The magic of witchcraft.

Hmm, I am taking a few to bed, then. Speak to you all later/tomorrow/in a week. Had a long weekend and shit-loads to do at work and socially this week, so not sure when I'll next check in!

Ooh, I like your kind of witchcraft blond. After watching shit movies over the weekend, I have accio-ed Chris Evans in to the pit for my personal pleasure. Him of the Captain America and other such nonsense. Not the ginger radio presenter.

Norf, hope you're tucked up in bed by now, but, incase you were awake and worrying, fear not- the peacock feather is now tucked into my witchy hat, and the badger pelt is perfect for a shawl. The cabbage leaf skirt has been left with the woo fred. Frankly they're welcome to each other.

Obviously, as barren old hags, our familiars are all cats, no? That's mine there. The tabby one licking his bum. He's called Bernie.

Come on, I clearly have a frog. A nice slimy one. And if someone (for instance a BESH in-law) misbehaved, I throw it at them. It is better than the excessive swearing I did towards the end of the last fred.

I am too tired to get ready for bed. Someone send me please!

Work was ok, thanks, lem. They seem happy for me to have a gentle reintroduction to it. Have been awake since 3am feeling tense about it anyway, though.

Did Cumberbatch satisfy the ovulation horn?

Sorry about the lack of sleep norf.

A friend having private ivf cycle at the mo has just texted me to tell me she's taken herself off our local nhs list- her experience is the same as mine and she's given up on them. So releaved it's not just me that can't get on with them!

Grr, temp dropped below the cover line this morning so now FF is saying I haven't ovulated

I think I have, it's CD bloody 35 after all. Hopefully it is a temporary blip, FF says that the cover line is just a guide, but if that's the case why now say that I haven't ov'd at all?!

[casts spell on FF servers]

<sneaks in and draws a pentagram behind bag of ishoos to mark spot>

<places FF in centre of wonky pentagram and dusts with powdered bat>

<mutters incantation. Green flames explode>

Ta dah!

FutitlityFiend is always being crap and indecisive for you, frank. Bastards. I'm sure you're right and you have ovulated though.

Morning hags. Well actually, afternoon. The day is flying by.

I slept so well last night. I didn't sweat like a paedo in a nursery for once either. Maybe it was the acu. She said I was running too hot or something equally woo and was going to try to cool me down.

It's CD 5 here and the worst is over. Sh@g week cometh.

<Stirs caldron>

Isn't KFZK going to stir your cauldron for you, eurowitch?

paedo in a nursery. <chortle>

Cd 4 here. The sechs drive is back in action and once the bloody (literally) druid has left the building I'm going to be so back on it. All in my head my arse. There is something hormonal in the uber long cycles that makes me totally disinterested.

Norfy he is only interested in stirring a clean caldron. So I will have to wait for the droid to bugger off.

I am so inordinately proud of myself I have to tell someone. I am alone in the house/office and saw a large-ish spider on the wall. I am no coward about creatures and stuff, but spiders are my thing. I removed it with a glass and a piece of card! By myself!

<proud>

Eyes are almost normal now - I may be able to face the outside world before too long. Doc gave me an epipen and I have to go for "training" . I thought it was just a question of jabbing into my thigh! Oh well, may as well get used to injecting myself with needles. There's be enough of them before long.

<promotes aries to witch's helper-in-training (3rd class)> Good girl. Well done!

Rie you need one of these:

Spider catcher thingummy

I'm now on my second. They are brilliant and the only way I can deal with the little beasties when I am on my own.

I'm glad your allergy is sorting itself out. It sounded nasty!

Well done on the spider-catching Rie. I usually just point the cat at them

Fanks for the FF burning. I've decided to ignore it

What's everyone up to this evening?

Hello ESH witches. A Halloween thread is very good I think, 4 (FOUR, that's one mroe than three) of us got diffed on halloween in 2009 - not saying we're a bunch of ol' witches or anything.

northey/ariel If your weekend plans change pls to let me know? I'm flying in to Manchester (because seriously... that's like the closest place ) on thursday and I don't even have a riding lesson booked until Monday so I will be ready to kill by saturday, but promise not to kill either of you if you make it anywhere in the vicinity.

<<appears in puff of smoke 'wicked witch of the west stylee'>>

just popping in to mark my place so this thread doesn't disappear into the ether, as I like to keep up with all your news.

<<tops up jars with eye of Olivia Newton-John, hair of Dog The Bounty Hunter and calls up the spirit of Bill Hicks to aid in the general sweary, no-nonsense attitude of the BESH>>

Ooh, was aries going to be in Wales??

Have got stupid blood test on Saturday morning now (in London) and am a bit wavery on whether to hurtle west afterwards, if it would only be for 24 hours...

I shall make you visit me next time Northey although am quite happy to take your blood and look at it under a microscope. What are we looking for? plague? fleas? Lezbots? Naaaaah, that there aries REFUSED to come to Wales, but one day we'll tempt her. We'll have the Taff gang out in force and we'll go to Barry Island and eat ice-cream and pretend we're Nessa (middle-aged mothers with dubious pasts).

My house mate and I used to go on 'adventures' to Barry Island when I was at uni in Cardiff ok, ok UWIC! Flipping luffed it! Watching Gavin and Stacey makes me nostalgic

Excellent spidery catching riehie geebies. I did similar last week with a big 'un hanging from a door way at work!

frank I reckon it'll pop back up and the fiend will change its mind tomorrow!

I am a bit because I finished in my lovely role today and have to go back to the ward! Aargh! But 8 working days off first (yay!).

Yep, we were watching Gavin & Stacey last week so I dug out the photo album of me as a baby sat in the sand in front of the wall. And Pickle looks exactly like me - so sweet!

I do want to come! <whines>

But I have to attend a family do.

In Dorset <gets out noose and looks for a handy beam>

Dorset is lovely! Though I accept that family may not be.

I am bleeeeeeding. The dead jelly sort. <adds to cauldron> It is gross. I guess hcg has got low enough for all the remnants to give up and come out. (that's what the blood test is measuring, donkey).

Well... That's good i suppose norf. A bit gross, but good nonetheless.

Still bleeding here, which is irritating. Do I try and cajole ghj into a bit of sechy fun? Having had no intrest for weeks, I'm now actually gagging for it.

And now I've just grossed myself out.

Oh, and.... Bear with me....

In Dorset?

Why yes, I'd reccomend it to anyone.

Bada boom.

I have to go to a family wedding in Blackpool this weekend. All kinds of "fun" family politics involved - father of the bride (HWHNN's uncle) has paid for 50% of the wedding but is not "allowed" (according to his ex-wife) to give his daughter away, give a father of the bride speech or sit at the top table. The bride is going along with it to keep her fruit loop mother happy.

HWHNN's uncle didn't see either of his children for almost 10 years when he and his wife divorced, but kept paying over and above what the CSA said he had to pay. Meantime the fruit loop told all her family, and the children, that their father had abandoned them and hadn't given her a penny.
She's also banned the uncle's "new" wife (they've been married almost 10 years now!) from the wedding and has been telling her family that they got divorced because he was having an affair with the "new" wife. Conveniently forgetting the fact that they didn't even meet until 6 months after the divorce was finalised

I will be taking a tin hat and casting protection spells all over the place!

Bloody hell Frank. This makes my Dorset weekend soynd utterly idyllic.

Ugh, frank. I can imagine that will be a very tense day.

Tell me bout it! Think we'll need to plan a secret escape route or summat, if it all turns nasty

In better(?) news, FF has reinstated ovulation for Friday, even though my temps have been below the mystical cover line for 2 days now. Praps I'm ill, hence weird temps [coughs feebly]

Frankel that sounds horrific! The tin hat sounds essential.

<pushes open dread portal with ominous creak>

Er, hello, I'm new. Someone said something about a questionnaire? What do I need to do to get through the initiation ritual? I have two cats, if that helps.

<awaits judging>

<sniff sniff> I smell a newbie! Search for BESHtionnaire, find a completed one, copy and paste your answers (try and find one fron the last few months because it was updated a bit!). We will then stick you over the melting pot, light a fire under you, see if you float and judge you accordingly!

Howdy BESHy witches. I have been keeping my beady (glass) eye on you all. Fire and brimstone to all the family gatherings. I am officially on holiday (hooray) and have spent most of the morning lolling on the sofa. Only 2 weeks, 2 hours til my scan not that I'm counting!

Evil, old buddy, old pal! How nice of you to join us!

Find the BESHtionnaire and we will commence judgement you've got my vote already

Evil.....<struggles to get creaky old memory working>

Weren't you a one time Frolicker?

Righto, here's my submission. <waits anxiously>

1) Do you like gin? (This is compulsory, you must say 'Yes')

I love gin.  In order of preference (best first): Tanqueray, Leopold's, Brecon, Hendricks, Whitley Neill, Gordon's, Bombay Sapphire, William Chase.

2) Men - are you a gold digger or a cradle snatching cougar?

Well, both, I think.  DH is older than me (just about), but I regularly lust after appreciate gorgeous younger men (actors, sportsmen and the like).  Exhibit (a) - Mark Cavendish.

3) Baybee-making - to put a baybee in your tumtum, which hole do you use:
a) weewee
b) poopoo
c) foofoo
d) none, you just pray to the baby Jebus.

They're not supposed to go in fully formed, are they?  Shit, I've been doing it wrong for YEARS if that's the case...

4) Testing - when someone wonders if they should test for updiff (pg), do you:
a) bellow 'POAS!' at them non-stop and punch them repeatedly in the kidneys till they wet themselves anyway.
b) Sprinkle them with babydust and send them hugs and kisses on lickle baby angel wings.

They always fecking well are, so no need to test.  But a punch in the kidneys seems reasonable.

5) Is R2D2:
a) an adorable robot from Star Wars.
b) the source of all evil.

An adorable robot!  Nowhere near as brilliant as Bender from Futurama though, who remains far and away my favourite robot.

6) what colour are your walls?

Some are magnolia, some are blue.  All are starting to fade a bit and thus the horrendous bright orange from the previous owners is starting to bleed through.

7) Number of pets?

Two, both cats.  One is ancient and grumpy, the other is huge and stupid.

8) Inappropriate (read: weird) crush of shame?

Jeremy Clarkson...  I know, I'm sorry.

9) Lesbian crush?

It has to be Scarlett Johansson.  I could not keep my eyes off her arse when watching Avengers Assemble.

10) What are your views on camping?

Camping comes with cycling.  This means ample opportunity to ogle DH's rather nice legs, so camping is fine by me.

11) How much money have you spent on sticks you then urinate on?

i) Oh nothing, I'll probably catch first time and then get the doctor to confirm it.
ii) Over 100 quid
iii) I opened an account on ebay solely for the purpose of purchasing sticks

Hah, I spent <£100 quid, but the feckers are now out of date and gathering dust as I appear to be annoyingly regular, so "lateness" and therefore opportunities to pee on sticks are few and far between.  I am considering some sort of ritual disposal.

And yes, Ariel, I was, and still am, a Frolicker. Though there's not much frolicking and far more bitter resignation there these days.

Hello to you and to Frank, anyway!

Arrrrgh, apologies for "£100 quid". I did of course mean either £100 or 100 quid.

Ha. That's why I left the Frolickers. I was far too miserable and bitter. They were lovely though. I too never pee of sticks as I just don't see the point. All these excited threads which say "When are you testing????!!!!!!!" Er....why would you test? Unless you're late? Which I never am!

Your impressive listing of various gins impresses me. Very impressive <impressed> I too lust after Cav - bless his twinkly eyes, curls, and visible package.

I say you're in.

Woooooo, a "yes" vote! <gets hopes up>

I have a very well-stocked off-licence near me. It has all manner of different spirits and multiple shelves just for gin. It's BRILLIANT.

Cav is just marvellous isn't he? I saw him in REAL LIFE during the Tour of Britain. Granted, he'd just crashed (and therefore lost the stage) so had a face like thunder, but still, it was him, and I saw him. I nearly expired with excitement.

Good thing I wasn't there. I would have leapt on him and been arrested.

I love giraffes! In an evil witchy way, obviously. And those spotty necks are just right for being a warty hag.

Hello giraffe. Tell us your tale. Or your oldie witchie legende.

Ooo fresh meat and entertainment. Marvellous. Welcome.

It was the new thread that drew you in wasn't it?

<proud>

<stirs cauldron with broomstick>

Good name as well evilgiraffe. I'm not familiar with the frolickers. I'm not sure my combination of meh and anger is what they're looking for..

What's your sad and sorry story?

Well, this tale of woe begins on a dark and stormy night...

<puts on witchy voice>

Not actually a dark and stormy night at all.  Events unfolded thusly:

I came off the pill in January 2010, took about eight months for cycles to start.  During 2011 I had lots of blood tests which say my hormone levels are all normal.  DH has been tested, nothing wrong with him either.  Early this year I went for an HSG which was normal, though having two men between my knees looking interestedly at my nether regions was an odd experience.  I also had an ultrasound which showed a haemorrhagic cyst on one ovary.  About six weeks later I was rescanned, and apparently the cyst was much smaller and there's nothing wrong.  So, there's nothing apparently wrong with either of us.

In early May the infertility clinic gave us an official diagnosis of "unexplained infertility" and said we are best off trying IVF.  We'll be able to get that on the NHS  once we've been trying three years, which will be January 2013.  Hopefully our GP will put the referral in before Christmas though.

To get IVF on the NHS I need to lower my BMI to under 30 - despite being not a particularly large person, I am technically "obese" so am trying not to eat much and get out on my bike as much as possible.

That's it, really, not too exciting.  I find it weird that no-one worries because DH and I are fairly young (both turning thirty in the next couple of months), so we have "plenty of time".  Personally I feel that taking three years when we are theoretically of prime reproducing age is cause for concern, but apparently this is not the case.

So far, the ultrasound scans have been the most distressing - my head seems to think that ultrasound = pregnant, which is hard to deal with.  DH is very calm about the whole thing, which helps.

Oh, and of course I'm surrounded by friends who are either pregnant or have recently given birth.  I do my best to be happy for them, but inside my head and behind closed doors I am so jealous I can barely see.

<stops raspy and painful witchy voice>

<coughs, massages throat>

What's everyone else's story?

In a nutshell (a special cursed one), unprotected sechs for 8 years, doctorly interventions for 3. PCOS brought under control with a killer combo of weightloss, metformin, ovarian drilling and clomid. Lots of random dildocams and shit too. Just for fun. Because everyone loves a dildocam. No actual baybee to show for it, mind. Currently recovering from second (yes that's right SECOND) ectopic. I'm 34.

Ah fuck. A woman has started to sing for money in my train carriage.

Ooh. I thought she was singing a special warbly effnic lullaby. She's now reached the chorus and it's turned out to be The Power of Love.

Well I say you're in evil [states bleedin obvious]

BTW, there are no "DH"s in here - all our other halves have amusing nicknames. Mine is HWHNN (He Who Has No Name), which I accept is neither amusing or particularly enlightening but I was having a brain-fart and could think of anything else [so there]

The warbly female singer version. Not the one from Back To The Future. I'd have recognised that one straight away.

Giraffe, you sound alright. But you need to acquire a hatred of the Droid (Beshspeak for your period).

My story is: we started trying in December 2010, once the honeymoon malaria drugs had worn off. I've never had a positive pregnancy test, but think I might have had a chem preg earlier in 2010. Since then, nada. We too are unexplained. We've had 5 assisted cycles - 3 Letrozole and 2 natural IUI - and one aborted IVF cycle because the drugs sent me absolutely batsh1t mental. We're trying naturally again and probably going for natural or mild IVF after Xmas.

I'll be 37 then, so we won't have the luxury of time.

Oh yeah, Mr euro is KFZK, kung-fu zombie killer, for his past and present hobbies.

X-posts Norf, oh dear random busker alert! Does she do requests? Ask her to sing Baby Got Back

I am an interloper here and my presence is merely tolerated! Was trying to get updiffed for 20 months, finally got a referral to a rather strange health system (live in Channel Islands you see), had an HSG, one round and Clomid on technically the wrong days of my cycle and Bob's Your Uncle I'm with child. Had a horribe first trimester with 3 weeks bleeding.

Due 16 December. Eternally grateful for the BESHes who have kept me sane and who I love dearly. I try not to waggle my pregnant belly around in an unseemly and provocative fashion but I would miss them all too much to leave totally.

I hope that makes sense.

Wow, you guys have impressive stories <humbled>

I second Baby Got Back, that's a fantastic song

I'll try to think of a decent name for H...

Jennifer Rush. That's who you mean. I am so old I remember it being No1 in 1985, when my best friend and I used to sing it into spoons.

I am pretty much the same as you, evil only much older (37) and because we are "unexplained" I have been told to have a few rounds of IUI before proceeding to IVF, though I think this is just so they can practise the drucks on me. Well they say we are unexplained in the same breath as saying my AMH level is off the scale of lowness.

I can see myself at 80 pretending my current cat is my baybee

Ooh, I like a bit of power of love. Lots of karaoke murdering potential there.

I'm sinky. Ghj is ginger hairy jock (for he is ginger, hairy and Scottish. But also because the keys are next to each other so it doesn't tax my barren, 30-something brain too much)

I'm another boring PCOSer. Off pill late 2009. No period for about a year (got married, ignored for a bit). Have impressively polycystic bloods (my ratio is 5:1 LH:FSH) and massively cynically ovaries (I would make you guess, but, well, 73! 73 fecking cysts!). You may think I sound proud, and I am. If I'm going to be fucked up, I'm going to do it properly.

Always skinny ish, clomid and drilling no use. Waiting an indeterminate amount of time for an appointment at my local ivf unit. Was told last week I was "pestering" them. Only referred in April, so maybe I am....

(hehe, have learnt to reread my posts- cynically ovaries. Obviously should be cystic, but autocorrect seems strangely appropriate...

Oh, and peeps, anyone read Marie Claire? Sat getting hair done yesterday, saw an article on traditional Chinese medicine in infertility. Gave the usual, medical failure examples, now surrounded by their adorable cherubs, all thanks to the one woman. The usual shite, including amazing stats (>70% success in the medical failures?!)

But... Also says that infertility units in London are also using her, with nhs funding... That must mean there is some hard evidence?

I'm almost won over.

How do I get an acupuncturist? How do I remove all dairy from my diet, and should I be getting myself a herbalist? Eek. This is so not me, but...

Euro. You do the acupuncture right? How did you find your person? The only one I know is in the Trafford centre, with a big glass shop front and massage tables for all to see....

I know of one I could use and I would. But he's 34 miles away and costs £45 a session. I just couldn't afford it

Blimey I go out for lunch and a care funding review for my granny and the Fred has taken off!

Welcome evil! Sounds like you'll fit right in!

I too am more a lurker but pop in often. I am known as Faith. Came off pill December 2009. Slightly wobbly cycles that settled down. Investigations commenced after a year, by the following December (2011!) tests revealed male factor inferiority ishoos. Tablets for the hubby - MSB, Mr Squidgy Baybee - sorted that after a while. Specialist ha! Says we should have IVF but I was too heavy sound familiar? so I lost the 8lb to get my weight under BMI of 30, Olympic baybee conceived now 10+5 counting down the days til my scan (14).

sinky the first one I found from internet recommendations and I trusted because of the Harley St address, and she has definitely done something to my cycles (but obviously didn't get me updiffed). New woo lady was a recommendation from my hairdresser. I like her so far.

It isn't cheap though.

Done a bit of googling. Have found a couple that look ok, one does an evening, the other does sat. Might try one of them, but £45 a pop.. Ouch.

Will they tell me to stop drinking caffeine?

Cos I won't. I'll smile and nod, but I won't.

<rebel witch>

<sniff sniff> new blood. At last! Hurray for evil or draf as you shall be known by me simply because a girl I went to school with spelt giraffe 'draf'. (Honestly!!)

I'm bugs. Just turned 30. GP (Ginger pig) is also 30. Came off pill Sept 2010 and started trying Jan 2011, nearly 2 fecking years ago. I've had 2 pregnancies, 1 on 28th October 2011 which ended in MC on 3rd Dec. The 2nd was from a bfp on 2nd June this year which began to end on 3rd July. My EDD for babybee numero uno. Yep, god really fecking hates me.

Thankfully the lovely consultant we saw privately has referred us to NHS for treatment and tests have begun, including spuffing in a pot for GP! (Minor compared to the amount of dildocams i've had!)

We get results on 24th October. <gulp>

Anyway, thats me in a failed nut shell. And as for your BESHtonairre, you're in for me. I like you and you cycle. Double win

(Cube cross pro 2011 just in case you're wondering).

Sinks I can recommend reflexology if that is of any assistance?

You sound sort of near me, the Trafford Centre is only 30 mins away from me.

Forgot to add 2 3/4 years for me and not a sniff of a diff.

I'd love to have reflexology. I love people messing with my feet as long as they don't mind my thoroughly unattractive feet. I have my grandad's feet apparently. My mother enjoys pointing out my imperfections and where I got them from

Aww, I feel so accepted - thanks everyone!

My friend has suggested acupuncture to me a couple of times, but I'm mostly rather about it. Should I give it a try, do you think? I suppose her PCOS-suffering acupunture-undergoing friend does now have two children so it might work... <still on the fence>

Bugs, this is my bike - so beautiful the man in the shop loves it and was a bit sad when I took it away. We went out riding with friends at the weekend, and down all the hills my friend was pedalling furiously on her mountain bike and I had to keep braking to stop myself leaving her behind

My first one didn't tell me to stop doing anything.

The new one has suggested I lay off chilli for a while as I was running "hot".

I was a complete woo sceptic, but the first woman definitely did something. My cycle got a bit more normal (it used to be a bit long with a shortish luteal phase, now it is pretty much text book with ov on days 14/16 and an approx 14 day LP) and my droidal pains eased (fewer clots=less uterine squeezing to get it all out, I think - less clotty periods was one of the things she told me she was trying to achieve). I would never have believed that shoving a few needles in me could achieve anything, but it does seem to. Basically it can't do anything for physical obstacles (e.g. blocked tubes) but does seem to help with righting anything that is a bit out of whack. You need to get on with the individual though.

Where do they put the needles? Just out of interest?

I'm a total, completely and resolutely, with no possible doubt, a sceptic. I laugh in the face of those woo maniacs. I mean really.

But.

1) it seems to do something, even to our very own sceptic euro. And, while i don't know you, I really believe you don't take any shit (slightly intimidated of your highfaluting, business travelling posts)

2) what have I got to lose (about £45 for a starter I suppose..)

3) nothing else fecking works.

Not reflexology though, I giggle if people even look at my feet in a certain way. As for touching? I'd be jumping off the bed straight away! Needles don't bother me (lucky really), but both googled practitioner seem to do some horrific introduction session with a chat about symptoms from "top to toe". Maybe they'll sort out my headaches, IBS and exhaustion while I'm there?

<ever hopeful>

Bugs- can I ask who you go to anyway? Lots of places seem to do a selection of things and a reccomendation would be nicer than just wandering in off the street..

The lady i used is mobile <not at all helpful I know>

Nice wheels draf <whistles>

My phone just started ringing, I looked and saw it was my longest friend who I havent seen since March. I knew they were TTC so I knew what she was going to say before I even answered. Yup you guessed it too. To add insult, she's 21 weeks and due 2 weeks after my most recent loss. AND she didnt even want a winter baybee. Finished her family before she's 31 with 1 of each. How fucking perfect for her.

I'm meant to be revising for a job interview tonight when all I want to do now is drink wine and self hate.

Oh bugs. I have several friends now who have "completed" families. One, who is the loveliest person ever, is only 28 and baby 1 was v much a surprise while on the pill. She's terrified it'll happen again, and, as both of them are 28, no one will do anything permanent for either of them (she's got a coil now I think). I feel for her, but really can't be around when she has her stress moments.

I've made a casserole tonight, and am now drinking my body weight in cider (I needed a splash for the pot. Shame it was a full bottle). Crack on with the wine. Try and limit the self hate eh?

Oh and draf, luff the bike. Am . Mine was cheap cheap cheap.

I've just found an interesting article about a X list sleb who had 3 x MC's before being treated for polycystic ovaries. They gave her Clomid and her 4th baybee was born no problemo. Maybe that's what i'll be given when we go back on the 24th? The article says it regulates hormones that polycystic ovaries wreck.

Clomid takers - What will it entail if i'm given them?

Boo

Yes it worked <claps>

Tis I, Lugs. Felt a NC was needed to match my dark dark mood.

<tickles nose wart>

Ooh I like it witchywoman.

Re acupuncture, I considered it but never got round to it but I found my local uni did it for about £20 an hour. Obviously they're students but supervised - worth a google?

bugs definitely maybe. Or might be like lp they treat to ensure things continue once you are diffed?

Feck knows faith. I was in such a good mood until that phone call. Now all I want to do is run away and cry. I'm not in a good place at all tbh.

The thought of never getting diffed again terrifies me. The thought of getting diffed again also terrifies me.

Facebook announcement just now of another new baby. The new dad is a dear, dear friend, but it's hard to deal with.

Bugs/Witchy (what do we shorten you to now?)

Friends who've been on clomid have said it has quite intense side effects. One found she went quite stabby so her husband hid the kitchen knives... Another found she was compulsively nicking stuff, small things like pens from work etc. So my impression is it messes with your mind quite a bit.

Rie it depends, but typically points in the lower legs relate to your lady bits, apparently. I have also had needles stuck in the top of my head and my hands and over my ovaries and womble.

Bugs most of my friends kids will be out snogging if and when my eventual sprogs are in nappies. <Sigh>

Clomid gave me crazy dreams and a weird mood. And hot sweats. Not a fan, but stuck it out for 8 cycles, with prog > 120 several times, so a touch overstimulated I think (not scanned though, and bloods taken myself, so not really monitored at all)

How about Bitch? (LOL!)

euro you seem to know a bit about being all helfy and that. What are complex carbs? Is it just brown rice & bread or does it get more interesting that that?

Pretty much, bugs. The less refined, the better. So generally white carbs=simple, brown carbs=complex.

I'm a big fan of the needles. Like Euro says they definitely do something. My woo woman got rid of my IBS & hay fever, sorted my cycle length out & generally makes me feel better.

Nice answers Evil but Clarkson???

I'm Jethro. Almost 36. Spread Sheet Geek / SSG has some weird chromosome thing going on & I have ovaries of an 80 year old. Didn't find this out for almost 3 years. Little chance of a natural conception so we are (hopefully) starting IVF either this cycle or next.

Hum. I'm also considering adopting a PCOS diet (Jesus wept. How have I come to this?), but have no idea where to start.

So, avoid white bread/pasta/rice? Do I have to stop eating cake? What about rice cakes? They constitute approximately 50% of my diet...

Dairy is bad it seems for PCOS. I considered buying some soy milk, but then realised I eat a yogurt for breakfast most days..

Help wise BESH witches.

Jethro, she seems nice. I was ignoring the Clarkson aberration.

I had acupuncture and found it helpful. Just go to someone who is registered with the British Acupuncture Council - hopefully at least they won't be complete cowboys then.

Oh non-floating-hag, they say a low GI diet is best for us PCOSers. There's been some evidence to suggest that PCOS is linked to insulin resistance.

A curse on all Facebook diffage announcements [cackles]

<throws some helfy brown rice into the cauldron>

After the weekend's vanishing line disaster I decided to lay of the leg of toad and eye of newt and also try to become more helfy, in an attempt to make my innards more hospitable. Result - caffeine withdrawal headache, IBS flare up leading to belly ironically looking like I am about 7 months diffed it's so swollen, and a row with Husband because he was being too flippant about the proposed dietary changes. Top results all round. Caffeine headache helped immensely by a trip to Mamas and Papas for a gift for insta-differ friend's baby shower this weekend.

I did think about inventing some other weird crush, but figured I might as well be honest. I can't explain it rationally AT ALL.

Still haven't thought of a name for H. <furrows brow>

Lay them aside

I quite fancy reflexology. I have a great love for having my feet rubbed.

Oh oh oh! I have it. H shall henceforth be known as HOTB (Him On The Bike). This amuses me for a number of reasons

I got on fine with Clomid, bugsy. Hot flushes at night for a few of the five days you take the tablets, which made me a bit sleepless, but I think that was it. And it gave me normal predictable cycles. Bfp on third cycle of it, I think.

Yes yes draf. And for this fred it can stand for Him On The Broom.

I like it draf!

I luff having reflexology. Leaves you feeling all warm and floaty

Hello new giraffe person. I am another ex-BESH who likes to keep an eye on things here. I always feel a bit of a fraud as I ttc for a year with no sign of ovulation, then suddenly the ovulation started and my body worked out what it was meant to do. Baybee due to be induced in 3 weeks. Well, 2w 6d.

I like very much the fact that you formatted your questionnaire so beautifully with all bolding and that. I am a big fan of that sort of thing. I am slightly concerned about the absence of Plymouth Gin in your ratings, however I'm assuming that's because its perfection lifts it higher than the others can reach.

Welcome and enjoy the witchery.

Good acronym draff

Sooo, fsr, low GI... That would be brown stuff and bananas, right? Slow releasing to stop those pesky sugar highs?

Can you tell I've never done diets?

That's the one sinky. There's a book called "PCOS for Dummies", it has some tasty recipes in it - sweet potatoe soup, a healthy carbonara, etc.

Low GI is the key. Bananas are actually one of the most high GI fruits, if I remember rightly. Carrots are also bizarrely high GI. There are loads of lists on t'internet. Basically, you need to make sure you are eating mostly low GI stuff and if you do have high GI stuff, eat it with something low GI to balance out the insulin your body needs to produce to deal with the meal/snack.

So dried fruit would prompt your body to produce loads of insulin. Half the fruit and the rest substituted with nuts would be better. Carrots are fine as a side dish to a roast but less good to munch as a snack on their own. That sort of thing.

The idea behind a low GI diet is to make your blood sugar a gentle wavey line rather than a roller coaster of ups and downs caused by high GI food -> blood sugar spike ->huge production of insuln -> blood sugar plummets, causing you to crave something sugary/carby. I do feel better when I eat lowish GI tbh. But I also like chocolate. A lot.

This is a very serious post. I need to balance that.

<Throws loads of dead fish in the cauldron>

<picks out a large haddock and dances around giving everyone fish slaps and cackling wildly>

Good morning foul hags.

I went to the doctor yesterday and was diagnosed with being A Bit Miz. Because after about two seconds of controlled professionalism I cried all over her like a massive pansy. Anyway, I've been given some nice magic pills and also a sick note for another fortnight, along with instructions to go back to Wales and Have A Big Cry and stop trying to be all stiff and English. I need to tell work this morning and am really quite scared of doing so. I've only just got back. What on earth do I say?

<flies off on broom to fester in Menkul Health folder> ;(

Northey I am not surprised you are officially A Bit Miz. You've had a brimming bucket of shit to deal with. I second the doctors advice on Having a Big Cry and a rest. <passes blankets, hot tea and lots of good books to read>

<sobs, witchilly> But what do I say to work? <fixates on trivial thing, in the manner of a nutjob> I feel really stuck about this. Do I go into details? What do I say?

Please someone write me an email?

When will you know if IVF is this cycle or next, JethrosonAirplane?

Oh Norf I'm sorry. Of course you are A Bit Miz, you've had an utterly rotten time lately. Screw work and what they might think - you've got a sick note. Have you told your boss what happened? I'm sure he/she would be understanding if you explained (in part) the situation.

<passes gin & cake, you know, the practical stuff>

Yes, I told him everything and he was lovely.

I've just flicked on my blackberry and there are some emails which I already want to deal with, in quite a positive way. And it has been nice to be back, the last couple of days. But at the same time my heart is racing, and if I do go in I won't be able to go to Wales for Crying and Talking, which I think is actually what I need. But I feel I can't say to work it's an emotional reaction, so I have to go all coy and call it "further complications", which sounds like I'm just avoiding work.

Should I go in? And just try to get by on the beta blockers? Or is that stupid, when what I really need is to grieve and stop suppressing everything like a blasted Victorian paterfamilias?

Survey says - stupid. GO BACK TO WALES WOMAN!!!

"Further complications" is a perfectly acceptable reason, you can always give more details later.

<ties Norf to a broom and points it in the direction of Wales>

I am just so bloody tense!

Which is why you need to take the time & the rest. Goodness.knows you've been through the ringer.

<clings pathetically to frankel's silky tail>

<and winkle's chicken>

God, now I sound like a weak and feeble loon here as well, when ideally I would seem like a polished and capable bizniz traveller sort of person <eyes euro>.

I don't like people knowing I am in a tiz. Either here or at work. Is what it comes down to.

Norf, complications sounds fine. Do not try and get by on the beta blockers.

<tenderly wraps norf in eels>

You don't need to be more specific other than to say 'the doctor has signed me off for a further two weeks.'

Job done Well, other than going back to Wales that is.

Have emailed. And been to bed and cried. I am really quite embarrassed by all this.

Going to stay here till Sat morning blood test and then head straight on to Wales. Am even wondering about calling hospital and asking if I can have it on Friday instead.

This too shall pass.

It's beyond shitty norf. You need to give yourself time to get over it. If it helps, methotrexate is a horrible drug. Blame this all on the drug. But the outcome is the same. You need time and space.

And why not ring the hospital? If they say no, well, sit back, watch Jeremy kyle (or perhaps something less brain rotting) then go on sat.

<flicks shrimp gently in norfs direction>

Go to Wales, Norfy and give yourself all the time you need - work can manage without you.

<lovingly gives a smack with a large, wet mackerel>

Oh norf. You need R&R. Yes pliz to ring the hospital, explain, request blood tests tomorrow - no reason why not - then you can jump on a train straight after. Tis unfortunate re work but can't be helped. They don't want you sniffling over the computers anyway! No seriously, they would rather have you back when you are well. Have you thought about counselling? Someone to talk everything through with/process things?

The doctor offered counselling, but I was more fixated on something to make me feel instantly better, hence choosing drugs. I couldn't bear the thought of having to wait weeks for a slot. I have to go back in a fortnight though, so I might ask then about counselling.

Thanks everyone. I'm really sorry about this.

<cuddles mackerel like a nice comfort blanket>

I will very gently tell you (as a veteran) that the tablets will take a couple of weeks to kick in. However, I felt better within days just for knowing I was doing something. Actually the best thing is to combine the two (trust me, I know). Yes within 2 weeks the tablets will start to kick in (about 6 weeks before they're fully up and running) to start thinking about the counselling.

Stop apologising <slaps face with halibut> we are here to support each other. So stop.

Ps luff you!

faif, you iz well gay. <snuggles into capacious bosom> don't mind the pointed hat, do you?

Work is definitely the thing to put at the bottom of the list. Sounds like the doctor is sensible - looking after yourself is a good choice.

In any case, going to Wales is always a good idea. I keep meaning to arrange a visit to my mum and dad, it's always so peaceful staying with them. Or it would be if they weren't having work done on the house, anyway

Norfy the BESH survey is right (as always) - ditch work, have a good cry, go to Wales and just let yourself deal with this - you have an operation, drugs and grief to deal with. No wonder you are A Bit Miz.

Nope don't mind the pointed hat. Bosom is certainly ample enough to take both you and the hat

Arrrrrgh fuck!

I'm going for the needles and Chinese medicine woo shizzle on Saturday.

Actually have the quivers.

This is not me. And a fred too late...

Ooh, umm, well it's sort of witchcraft originally, isn't it? Sort of oriental witchery? Taken up by the woos.

Did you just phone up and make an appointment?

Second Faif, tablets + counselling is the way forward. Good luck Norfey.

Just rang up. It's "herbs and accupuncture" south Manchester (google if it will distract you - I'm at risk of outing myself for the approval/amusement of you lot!)

Seem to have lots of post nominals between them, and the ubiquitous testimonials from 30 something TTCers.

Have you rung the hospital yet?

Ooo, new woo.

My advice would be, if you don't feel comfortable with the practitioner, more straightaway. If you do, you need to stick with it for a while to see effects on your cycle. It's not an instant cure (although I have to say my scalp is already less itchy and flakey than when I went to the appointment on Monday).

move not more

I will learn to type one day.

Did you get your tests moved norf?

Another friend texted just now to announce their diffedness. At Christmas she had no plans to start trying. Want but this is barred on new helfy living, make internals nice for a baybee plan.

I find Tesco summer fruits is a naice drink when I can't have booze. Or elderflower pressé. But have a large BESH <gin> for the sympathy of the sudden diffedness of the friend winkywitch.

Hot chocolate also a good choice. Especially with marshmallows in it. Granted, it's a bit wholesome, but who cares, right?

Must have lots and lots and lots of whipped cream in it

Drinking

Argh! Crap phone posting too soon.

Drinking hot chocolate made by kind husband right now - don't think I'veever been wholesome before - at work I am apparently scary.

Blimy you lot don't half cackle on (get it?)

Norf as your Yorkshire, foul mouthed friend I am telling you to get your fucking arse back to fucking Wales. Right?

I has made a peacock costume tonight!! Well, i've made the skirt / tail bit which i still need to stick some felt feathers on that i've also made <proud>

Its for a fancy dress party next weekend.

In other news, I started my helfy eating today and feel really good. I told a girl I work with and she confessed that her baybee was an IVF win too. Turns out there are 3 of us in my small team that have sat in the same 'chair of doom' and had the same Dr & Nurses staring up our foofs!!! She is starting IVF for number 2 in the new year sometime.

I saw your peacock skirt in the other place Witchy, it's ver impressive.

I am getting stuff ready for travelling to this wedding. Several of my colleagues told me I should take notes and write a book based on it .

I too admired the peacock skirt! You are truly a witch of many talents.

Are you heading off tomorrow, Witch'sHorse?

Hot chocolate with marshmallows is especially nice with a massive slug of alcohol in it.

Morning hags.

Yes, we're heading off this afternoon Norf, it will take about 4-5 hours from here. How are you today? [concerned face] Did you get the blood tests reorganised?

I have some menkul to report: last night (6 DPO) I went to the loo and there was a streak of bright red blood when I wiped, not much but enough to notice. My first thought was "Great, droid is here early" , but now, after this mornings loo visit was all clear, the menkul has taken over and I'm thinking implantation bleed other things

Can't one of you just cast a spell and look into my womble and see what's going on???!!!

[menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul] [menkul]

I phoned a couple of times but the line was busy. I might just leave it and go up tomorrow. I feel ok. Tense and with chest tightness. I think I can ride it out though. <ascends throne in nutter corner>

Your streak of blood sounds PERFECT! How soon can we punch your kidneys?

[nails mattresses to the wall to create a safe space for Norf]

Oh god, not for ages. I'm only 7dpo today, so at least another week, my luteal phase is usually 15 days and FF says tests on 14 October [resolute] [ish]

Will you be able to wait till HWHNN gets back next weekend? Or are we going to have to restrain you from the sticks all week?

Oh I'll definitely wait till next weekend, but we're both off work all week, so he's here anyway

I menkul along with you FSR. Ready for punching...

I dreamt of you norf. You were lovely!

Haven't caught up yet - quick waves!

I am lovely. <preens from within straightjacket>

I actually think everyone here is lovely. Now quickly someone, bugger me with a red mullet before I go soppy.

Oh well in that case, fsr, poas at will!

<drops tuna from a height on norf>

<eyes up fsr's kidneys>

Morning peeps. Am working from home today. So might be around a fair bit..

Right, what did I miss? I have been working like a demon for the last couple of days and went to my first counseling appointment last night and she asked whether I hide from my feelings by working so hard

How are things norf. I am heaving a large sea bass in to batter you with

Any news sinky? I am working from home til 11-ish and then need to present again. I still kind of need to do something about the presentation, so will be in and out!

Morning all! I have a day off work today. With no plans. It has been so long since this happened I literally don't know what to do with myself.

<admires straitjacket>

Not much with me driz. Apart from the Chinese woo needles tomorrow. Am hydrating myself in a "nervous first day a school" style. Am worried she will tell me my chakras are misaligned or something.

<waves newts toe over cauldron sitting on firey pentagram>

Am, of course, working just now. Not having a leisurely breakfast and watching tv. Oh no.

Ooh. It's a BESH day off work from home day!

I have made the fatal error of coming downstairs without showering, and while I may get some work done, it's now guareenteed that I won't get dressed till late morning at best.

I'm so weak.

You can work in PJs, no?

Still in PJs here!

And here! I did get up and eat lots of shortbread though.

Was the counselling for miscarriage woe, lemon? What was it like? I've been offered it but am not sure...

I am dressed [proud] and ready to leave when I need to in 45 minutes!

Counselling was for infertility woes, I had made an appointment before I knew I was diffed, because I was not coping very well. I cancelled the appointment when I discovered I was diffed, but decided that it won't do harm to solve some of the issues now I am undiffed again (and I was wailing uncontrollably a lot when I remade the appointment).

I think it will be useful, but it is difficult to say at this point. I am giving it a try, she picked up on a few (unresolved) issues from before, which would benefit from being resolved. But it was quite difficult to talk through stuff and be made to deal with the emotional side of things. She said I am very good at developing rational coping strategies but they are not enough any more, which I think is true, fair and rather disappointing. [cross emoticon]

But I'll let you know. My home work is to write a letter to the wont-be-born baby I was carrying, which I have seen as a suggestion before, but found quite cringe-worthy. But thinking about what I felt/wanted to say/etc made me cry quite a lot, which I suppose is part of working through grief rather than ignoring it.

Not that I have written it yet, but I chatted about it with SB and thought about it on the way home.

Gosh yes, that idea makes me cringe and shut down emotionally as well. Which presumably is one of my coping strategies, and also one which leads to pressure cooker type stress, because I do anything to avoid the acknowledging and confronting grief sort of stage. Eek.

Do you have to take the letter back next time?

Check norf, we share the strategy. I am known as the ostrich in our household, if I avoid the issue it will go away... But as there are unresolved issues in my past aplenty I am going to try it and see whether it helps. It can't harm too much to try and face up to grief, once, to see whether it works. There are some mother issues as well, which I really don't want to pass onto the our baby if and when, I have that as motivation.

Honestly, it makes me want to recoil. But my pressure cooker has been making threatening, explosive noises and I'd rather not have to clean up the mess after that...

And yes, I have to take the letter back, but I told her she would not be reading it. I won't write it properly (as it is supposed to be what I feel rather than what I think) if I have to lead somebody read it... I told SB, who is a lot more in touch with his emotions, and he suggested he should write a letter too. Which I suppose is a good thing, but it surprised me, as he didn't seem to have accepted the pregnancy as a possible baby at all and does not seem to be overboiling with grief all the time. Perhaps the latter is because he is in touch with his emotions. Why am I the boy in this relationship, but have all the female hormones? It ain't fair...

lead led. OMG I am tired I have no idea how to spell that.

Lovely witches come back, I won't thread hog too much, just wanted to tell a little bit about the counselling for norf. I am assuming I won't have to do too much of this cringe-worthy stuff. Fingers crossed. I promised myself if I find it too much and/or not helpful, I am allowed to bail out.

Counselling sounds utterly terrifying. I'm pretty in touch with emotions (I think), but the thought of counselling and/or therapy makes me squirm with embarrassment. Mind you, I suppose it has to be hard or it's not working? I have no idea.

I am loaded up with weetabix, off out on my bike now. It's blowing a gale, so I predict half of my route will be superfast and the other half will be like swimming through treacle. Ah well, needs must etc.

Oh, and futility friend thinks I ovulated a few days ago. Once again despite jumping HOTB an awful lot we seem to have missed the crucial date. For fucks sake

I'm jealous of all the PJ wearing on this fred today. I wanna be at home in comfy PJs too!

Drizz I'm not sure I would be any good at that sort of thing. It sounds like HARD homework. Make sure you suck the end of your pencil thoughtfully whilst doing it. That always helps.

I had an emotional wobble last night. I popped to the shops after work (having recently realised that I had most of my work clothes in my last job... that I left in 2006). I was too fat for everything. I did my usual thing of taking a size 10 and 12 into the changing room. I tried one thing on and it was tight so I thought "no matter, I can try the 12, that should fit". Only to find that it was the 12. I nearly cried. I was so out of sorts by that point I didn't even manage to buy some shoes to cheer myself up. Meh.

Have some toad finger biscuits everyone. (They have net negative calories, euro, with their delightful vomit-inducing action)

It all sounds so familiar. Let's all set up as emotionally stilted Victorian business men. AMNH can be Mrs Banks (the energetic yet dippy mother from Mary Poppins).

euro do you know what's caused it? Is it still hangover from bastard drugs, plus some business travel?

"overboiling with grief"

Good effort on the cycling draff. I have showered. I think that's enough exertion for now. (will go running later and tomorrow, and, well, Sunday, so think I can take a morning off!)

Am also an ostrich. Why deal when ishhuws can be convieniently ignored ad infintium? The letter idea sounds horrific, but somehow very sensible. I suspect given the choice of speaking directly to someone or writing it down then discussing the points would be easier for me. See it as an action plan to work through, or meeting bullet points to deal with. Or maybe that's just more compartmentalising/stoking the pressure cooker, rather than confronting and dealing?

<too much feelings shizzle. Need more fish slapping>

Negative calories you say?

norfy I do think the drugs are to blame. I am at my fattest ever. And I have put on 3/4 of a stone since I came off the drugs in july. I put on a few pounds while I was on them (expected - water weight I think). I lost that really quickly as soon as I stopped then. And then the weight just piled on at a rate of about 2lbs per week. I just wasn't eating enough to justify that - it would have to be 7000 cals a week over my maintenance level and I was nowhere near that, even with the biz travel. I think it has halted now and I have even lost a pound or two but it is a real struggle in a way that it never has been before. So yes, I most definitely blame the bstd drugs!

Oh dear, that was painfully slow. I only went ten miles! And I ran out of battery on my speedo so no proof of doing anything to show HOTB later either. Ah well.

Sinky I like your point of writing a letter to work through. I imagine it would be a good deal less overwhelming that way.

On a more cheery note, I whizzed through the market place on my bike, nipping round teenage boys (why aren't they in school?) and old grannies, with the Bond theme tune in my head. I suspect I didn't look as cool as I felt (hi viz lycra will do that to a person) but it was FUN

Right - give me a pile of the negative calories. I lost lots of weight when diffed and piled it all on again. I quite liked the thinner me. So as of this weekend there will be more exercise.

about the weight gain euro. It is wrong and I hate shopping (cos I have the depressing experience you had frequently) so I sympathise. I say next time only buy shoes (and socks).

Well done on the racing and dodging giraffe (who were you btw, I did not catch up properly).

Hurrah for free (incredibly slow) wifi in cafs while waiting for trains!

PS the overboiling with grief sounds more melodramatic then I meant. Just referring to the unstoppable and unexpected crying fits, and trying to fit them in the pressure cooker metaphor, or something.

Feeling quite pleased you're all as horrified by my home work as I was. SB was quite pleased and not surprised by it, so I am happy to be in the company of stilted victorian gentlemen (I see a theme for the next fred).

Which reminds me, anyone for a bit of pumpkin soup to go with the toad legs. It is adorned with hairy spiders!!

I'm new see post on Wed 03-Oct-12 13:44:13 for questionnaire answers...

Gah! Spiders.

<Runs from thread at a speed Usain Bolt would be envious of>

(BTW check out my photo on here for a feline embodiment of me - KFZK found it and thought it was hilarious)

Hehe. Love a good cat caption photo.

I'll have a mug of spidery soup thanks draff

(*drizz*, she was lured over from some froliky fred. But despite that, seems as cynical as the rest of us.)

Yum pumpkin spider soup, very helfy with extra protein, I'll have a large bowl plz.

Made it out of house to hairdresser so will be beeyooteeful for baby shower from hell tomorrow <proud of self>

In that case, welcome giraffe! I just went back and approve of both you and your BESHtionaire. Although sorry Jeremy Paxman (sp?). I suppose I owe you an intro, although my waily self-centred posts from today might have given you a clue .

So I am lemon, 33 as is Skinny Bint (SB) my lovely husband. We've been TTC since June 2010, totally unexplained after all the tests bar immunes, and I had a SO+IUI win in August, due two days after luffly faif but that became a natural MC at 7+4. The clinic does not want to treat us until I've had a normal cycle after this one. (MC messes with your cycle, so it might well be 2013...)

Oh and I did my presentation and it went well. And I look nice, and have agreed to go to the pub with SB when he's home too. It is the WEEKEND

Horror winkly baby-showering. Well actually showering with my own baby is high on the wish list. But the present-giving cooing type I strongly dislike (and am allowed to avoid!)

I have to decided whether I want to have lunch tomorrow with a lovely friend who MCed this summer (twins) but texted me to give me fair warning of her brand new diffage, only 6 weeks so far, but still diffed. I think I'd like to see her, but I am a bit apprehensive about the dealing with diffeds. Maybe see how I feel...

I siffed some soup for you euro, it is less calorific without the extra protein.

Any other plans, except the franks horror in Dorset?

Pub sounds good. Am keeping up my 1950s housewife pretence and cooking a chicken casserole tonight. But have just chased ghj out the kitchen with the Big Knife because he was attempting the worst sort of back seat chef-fery.

Lunch might be naice drizz, she's sure to be kind given her previous. And it might be a bit uplifting ins way. winkly, just commiserations for the baybee shower. Never been to one that hasn't made me want to eat my own face.

How are you norf, our delicate witchling? How today has been a bit less madness inducing.

Am v apprehensive about the needle lady tomorrow. I suspect I'm building this out of all proportion, but meh. It's never stopped me before.

Pubbage has been changed to pub-dinner as I can't be arsed to cook. Half an hour to estimated pub time

I agree that it might be nice, but the pressure cooker seems to be at a running boil thanks to counseling yesterday. So it is a bit scary. Also, I just read back lots from before and I wanted to give norf a mahoosive hug, even if it is not allowed. And tell her to stop being so English. Cry in Wales, and take your time. Working too much is NOT GOOD.

Good luck with the needle woman buggywitch. I have to admit I have been to squeemish to try that approach. But it can't be worse than counseling

sinky I will go to your needling if you go to the shower for me <hopeful> I don't mind a bit of needling, went when I kept getting horrific UTIs and haven't had one since, at least not one of the awful debilitating ones.

After shower from hell my only other plan is to visit my friend and help her take baby twins swimming. No I do not have any childless friends any more, but happen to know she only won twins after two rounds of ivf so don't feel at her.

driz have fun in pub, I made helfy chicken stew for dinner but am wishing I wasn't on stoopid health kick so I could drink a bottle glass of wine in pub.

I have had a Friday night glass of wine. Wine is good.

Quite a decent day today. A long walk in the woods picking blackberries and that sort of thing. Have just had a massive bowl of risotto and two huge slices of apricot tart. Feeling cautiously relaxed. 

What time are the needles, * sinks*? Do you need to do any preparation? Waxing and plucking? Will the acupuncturist go anywhere?

drizz, I hope you are having a lovely relaxing time in the pub, eating something deliciously unhealthy and  canoodling with SB like a massive girl.

sinky, the baby shower sounds shit. Can you activate the BESH present list? The one with all the passive aggressive crap on it. Massive incontinence pads and stuff. 

Sorry, I meant winkly for the baby shower. Rhyming names. Gah.

Nah, nice idea but the mum to be is a lovely person its all the other guests I don't like and to buy her passive aggressive gifts would mean that I was actually horribe, rather than just feeling like a horrible bitter jealous person (bad day today).

Besides I already bought a gift, not spending any more money.

Is it just me or are baybee showers just so American?!

That sounds like a good day norf. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I am finding I'm spending way too much time on MN and at the point of boredom where it doesn't change quick enough for my liking! I remembered I bought a tapestry kit (you know the kind, aimed at 8 year olds!) but I'm actually finding it quite therapeutic.

Baybee showers def very American. But a nice idea, if you miss out all the stupid games and just have tea and cake. Or a nice idea for the diffed person anyway, and a whole range of potential emotions for everyone else.

Oh, and thanks for the "yes" vote, drizz! Although it was Clarkson not Paxman, I'm not that weird

Clarkson is way weirder than Paxman, you witchy freak!

I wonder how frank is getting on so far.

Hopefully fsr is having a good weekend away from us

And draff, Clarkson is considerably worse than Paxman, so less of the !

Norf- I hadn't even considered needles going there! I'm assuming it's all linked points, so my left arm might be my wooomb, my foot might be an ovary or pituitary gland or something. I am so not ready for needles anywhere more "personal"

<flys off on large pee stick, cackling madly>

PAXMAN IS OLDER THAN MY DAD. Clarkson is slightly less appalling in that regard.

And anyway what were YOUR weirdo crush choices eh, eh? <fixes thread with a beady eye>

I would change mine from Niles from Frasier to Seth Green - he of Buffy and Scooby Doo 2 fame. Yum

Don't eat a whole bag a Haribo to yourself, trust me. <clutches stomach>

Oh, neither of those are weird! I have had both on my list for a long time Although it is perhaps possible that my definition of "weird" may not be accepted on here...

You are definitely thinking outside the box graf! I got severaly mocked for the Niles thing!

And you will continue to be faife

Mine is Eddie Izzard. Yes, even when in drag. He's just.... Lovely.

Eddie is also on my list! I saw him live about ten years ago, he was wearing a leather miniskirt and I nearly dissolved right there.

I think perhaps I'm just a bit of a perv. Over everyone.

Except Paxman.

Im going to see him next year. I'm not counting down the days (yet). I'm taking ghj, but he doesnt really get him. And certainly doesn't have a crush.

I've never met anyone else with a crush on Eddie! How v exciting. We can perv together.

Actually, one of my fave routines is the evil giraffe one.... Don't tell me that's where your name came from?! <almost melts with love of the new BESH>

OF COURSE that's where my name comes from! Glorious was my favourite shows, with Definite Article second. My family can recite large portions of both... When I went to see him it was with my mum and dad, it was quite weird and brilliant, and we were in the third row and his legs seemed to go on forever... Don't think my dad had quite the same response as me and mum though...

I will eat all the leaves on this tree. I will eat more leaves than I should.

Just found and watched Evil Giraffe on YouTube. Snortle.

In my Lamborghini, in my mind

It's all true true true except for the lies

Oh draf I can't believe I didn't twig where your name was from! I super luffs you now. Eddie Izzard is such a legend. Tickets already books for the show next year, roll on May.

Covered in beeeeeees......

Hands down, best Eddie Izzard sketch ever! Brilliantly done and overquoted in our house.

I had a housemate with a big thang for Eddie. We watched the Sexie (ahem) video many times!

<<joins in perving over Mr Izzard>>

Since we are still waiting for our dining table and eat off trays, we say You'll need a tray most nights!

We regularly play out the tray sketch in this household too!

hello! thought I would creep over quietly as the Frolickers so quiet these days and I am probably more a BESH these days than a frolicker!

faith I love that sketch - one of the funniest ever [grin[

Playing full Dressed To Kill as I wrap gifts before departing - £30 on petrol round trip!!! - it's helping to fight the rapidly rising bitterness.

Be strong winkly!

Ooh hello raspberry my old friend! How's tricks? If you'd like to join the witches coven of the BESH, you need to drop your BESHtionnaire into the cauldron. Tis easy, draf did hers a few days ago.

My favourite Eddie Izzard thing (hope link works):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwyJk_TfvqQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Also, the phrase: I like my women like I like my coffee. In a plastic cup.

Oh and 'covered in bees'.

Is there some sort of exciting Frolickers Schism happening?
<agog>

Not that we are not v pleased at the prospect of new blood for our rituals.

I have never heard of these frolickers before? Do they frolik in meadows in skirts made of wheat?!

paaaahahahaha the Frolickers are taking over it seems! Tis just so quiet in there these days and I like having someone to chat to.

Tricks aren't too bad Faith!

Rightio my attempt at the BESHionnaire:

1) Do you like gin? (This is compulsory, you must say 'Yes')

Yes. Gordons and Blue Saffire are the only ones I have tried though.

2) Men - are you a gold digger or a cradle snatching cougar?

ohhhh I've been with DH so long I don't really know but I like to think that should I ever be single again I like to think I'd be a gold digger.

3) Baybee-making - to put a baybee in your tumtum, which hole do you use:
mixture of:

c) foofoo
d) none, you just pray to the baby Jebus.

Although saying that I'm atheist so I'm not sure who I pray to........

4) Testing - when someone wonders if they should test for updiff (pg), do you:

a) bellow 'POAS!' at them non-stop and punch them repeatedly in the kidneys till they wet themselves anyway.

5) Is R2D2:

a) an adorable robot from Star Wars.
I prefer the wookie though. My little brother also does a pretty good impression of a wookie!

6) what colour are your walls?

magnolia through the house but we slowing introducing colours!

7) Number of pets?

No pets, DH is enough to put up with, expensive, always hungry and can make more mess in a shorter space of time than the tasmanian devil. oh and does quite often try to hump my leg. perhaps that's where we are going wrong?

8) Inappropriate (read: weird) crush of shame?

mmmmmmm, that's taking some thinking about. probably Max from eastenders?

9) Lesbian crush?

lady gaga. and kylie minogue

10) What are your views on camping?

glamping all the way, we have a motorhome. i cant go anywhere without my creature comforts but i do like the freedom it gives you

11) How much money have you spent on sticks you then urinate on?

ii) Over 100 quid

so am I allowed in?

Well.... It's not quite got the formatting we enjoyed with draffs

<attempts to start some intra-frolicky war>

It seems acceptable. R2D2, otherwise known as the droid, or Druid (thanks autocorrect) is the heinous metal fucker that is periods. No AF please.

And pick the lesser half a new name. No DH ( mine certainly isn't at the mo). I have a ghj (ginger hairy jock) but tis all an irrelevance really. Pick some letters, think of what it might stand for. I suggest letters close to one another on the keyboard.

Ooh, lots of rules. But we're naice really. Just intolerant of all things baby dusty.

You need to think of an inappropriate. draff has already horrified us with hers, but redeemed it with the darling Eddie.

And tell us your sorry tale. We like a story here.

Raspberry! Hi! <waves manically>

at my superior formatting skills!

Re babydust, is it just me that imagines that to be the result of baybees + blender? It's a rather horrific image, and not one I'd want to be sprinkled with...

Hello everyone. I am Away. That's why I'm not here.

<runs back to familial duties>

Babydust in mind is what happens when a nuclear bomb lands on an orphanage.

Too much?

Oh good. I was worried the coldness of your house and sadness of your heart from the other day had got you. Or the mingingness of your eye.

Hi raspberryberet. Just maintain an appropriate level of irritable outrage at people starting threads about "experiencing a money of ^pure love^" and you'll be fine. What's your story in general?

Also, does anyone actually know the point of the wall colour question, or is it too far lost in the mists of time?

Is babydust not when their dried in vomit starts flaking off?

A moment of pure love. Not a money. Though I am very amused by the idea of a money-shot of pure love. That would have showed her.

We tried to get rid of the wall question when we revamped the BESHtionnaire but it depends which one they copy and paste. I was told I was 'too nice' when I put it at the start of the Fred.

Who said about ground up baybees? Was it drizz?

There's a revamped version? I copy and pasted from one posted in early September, which I thought was probably recent enough. What other questions were there? I'm intrigued.

Oh, revamped a while back (to my knowledge, but I'm still a relative BESH newby type).

I fink it might have been me that told faife she was being too nice.. Obviously all in preparation for being a cackling hag for this fred.

And yes: baby dust =ground up baby.

So, been to the needle man (that was a surprise, don't know why). All v relaxing. Apparently my pulse, tongue and complexion tells him I'm too stressed and try and do everything too fast. Couldn't really argue with that one..

Now have a bag of herbs to take twice a day. They smell funny.

You are too nice, faif! It's a measure of your extreme loveliness that I don't even mind.

Did it hurt, winkle? Do you feel, umm, more fertile?

Well I never thought I could feel like an innocent little thing but I do now

I will work on formatting but I'm afraid it's not my strong point although I can manage emoticons. I'm also definitely not one for spreading baby dust.

My rather unexciting story is that we starting 3 years and 4 months ago with concerted efforts being made for at least the last two years. When I say concerted effort I'm sure you know I mean peeing on anything that moves to predict Ov, checking pant snot and screaming down the house in excitement when I get a little egg appear on my CBFM. However, the bitch that bleeds always turns up so 6 months ago I had a lap & dye which took away a bit of Endo and an ovary stuck to my womb, all else hunky dory. After all that, still not a sniff so our follow up appointment is in 9 days at which point the consultant had said we can be referred for IVF. I had a letter come through from the hospital this morning and burst into tears thinking the appointment had been put back so I burst into tears but then opened it and it was a reminder. So then I cried because I felt like a dick for crying. My MATV (meat and two veg seeing as he has to have another name - is that the right sort of thing?) thinks I'm bonkers beyond retrieval .

p.s. moment of pure love? If that's a reference to a thread here a while ago - i nearly puked. Even MATV gawked.... then said something very rude

But I am still a true ESH because when my house burned down, the main thing I mourned the loss of was the brand new bottle of gin

I'm not sure what adaptations we added, we definitely added a 'Pliz to explain how you found the BESH and how long you have been trying to win a baybee'. I will hunt for it.

Glad the needles were good sink!

Here it iz:

Argh, and be welcome to our new pirate Fred. Be finding yourself a parrot and a wooden leg and hop on board for the trip of a lifetime. Argh.
If ye be new and wantin' to join our motley crew, be filling in the BESHtionnaire application below. Argh.

1) Do you like gin? (This is compulsory, you must say 'Yes')

2) Men - are you a gold digger or a cradle snatching cougar?

3) Baybee-making - to put a baybee in your tumtum, which hole do you use:
a) weewee
b) poopoo
c) foofoo
d) none, you just pray to the baby Jebus.

That's a "c", right there...

4) Testing - when someone wonders if they should test for updiff (pg), do you:
a) bellow 'POAS!' at them non-stop and punch them repeatedly in the kidneys till they wet themselves anyway.
b) Sprinkle them with babydust and send them hugs and kisses on lickle baby angel wings.

5) Is R2D2:
a) an adorable robot from Star Wars.
b) the source of all evil.

6) Number of pets?

7) Inappropriate (read: weird) crush of shame?

8) Lesbian crush?

9) What are your views on camping?

10) How much money have you spent on sticks you then urinate on?
i) Oh nothing, I'll probably catch first time and then get the doctor to confirm it.
ii) Over 100 quid
iii) I opened an account on ebay solely for the purpose of purchasing sticks

Finally, tell us how you found the BESH and why you'd like to join us pliz.

(Tis on the pirate Fred, if I am being sooper naice I must suggest they look for the BESH pearl -argh!).

Tis true faife. You are a true BESH. You have to stick around, even diffed to let some of your niceness rub off on the rest of us

I like MATV a lot rasp. His name, although I'm sure he's lovely too. Appointment sounds v exciting- Im in a similar position, although with PCOS rather than unexplained (that's right? Or are they blaming the endo?). But 6 months on am still waiting for an appointment to tell me if ivf is the next step for me or not. Hence the needles as a means of distraction.

Not feeling overly fertile Norf, but very relaxed. Didn't hurt at all. Weird really. A gentle knock which was him tapping the needles in, and that's it. I got a warm feeling around some of them, which is apparently a sign theyre doing good (?) and then I was left to sleep relax under a heat lamp for a while. Whole appointment was 90 min, so god knows how long I relaxed for...

I have my smelly herbs, then another appointment next week.

sinky your needling sounds quite pleasant! The baybee shower was actually worse than I thought, I was the only childless one there and I was just completely irrelevant. I feel like shit

I was asked "are you still working full time?" with a proper look

Working back - not got to page 11 yet

YAY for wine euro. We had some too. I am officially still a lightweight (feeling hangover after two glasses of wine is wrong, I think). Well done on chicken stew winkly. How did the shower go? And good on you not actually being horrible.

Well draff we'll comment on Clarkson vs Paxman later . But you're in.

The (Fri)day sounds good and wholesome, norf. Hope you're in Wales by now with fabulous diving HCG scores, but am sure I'll find it.

Faif snap re: waiting for stuff to change. That was me waiting for SB and pubbage. But I have only just come on MN today. Will tell all about my adventures in a minute.

Oh and FRESH blood and perving on the Saturday morning, exciting stuff!

I used to go straight to sleep as soon as she put the needles in!

I have spent the afternoon with my sister and get two kids a d my niece is the grumpiest little cow on the face of the planet. I know she isn't well but she is so bloody whiny!

Well done on the needles sinky they sounds rather pleasant more than my counseling, I did my home work and used up a pack of tissues, incidentally Keeping stuff crossed for appointments coming through.

And at the working full time comment and feeling like a spare part, winkly but very well done on surviving.

Welcome rasberry just a shameful crush and you're properly in.

And yes, faif is too nice, which is why I like her even if she was my cluster-differ. But why you want to play seems a fair enough question.

YAY for fresh blood though. Dinner needing attention. Will be right back

As for me, I had a really lovely day, despite a slightly hangover start. A bit of exercise, healthy (fish) shopping at the market, the lunch with the diffed after MC friend, which was really, really nice. My horrid homework, which was less bad than I feared, a cuddle with nephew, who is too big for cuddles and just wants to climb things and now cooking tea

for whiny niece. Hopefully yours will be cheerier, dot! How long to go now?

10 weeks tomorrow! Time is going really fast now!

Wow, that is unbelievable. Does time speed up after all the checks? It feels like not that long ago you had your win!

I think time has sped up since I started concentrating on the house not the baby!

How old are you rasper? 3 years 4 months would knock the frolic out of anyone. You are most welcome here. Yes, the pure love thing was that silly woman from a while ago. Did you see the end? She was bloody diffed, obviously, and found out in the airport on the way to her honeymoon or something. (couldn't read it firsthand without smashing up phones and laptops, so someone had to tell me, hence my bitter vagueness)

lemon, I am so impressed you got through that homework. I can't even think how I would bring myself to start. Are you glad you did it?

Well done for baby shower hideousness, winkle. It sounds awful, and you are a saint for lasting the distance.

faith I think a few of us here might like MATV (name) but yes he is rather lovely although currently in the dog house for being so drunk last night he forgot where the loo was. He didn't pee anywhere which is good but he did wake me up one to many times trying to find it and then fell asleep on it for the best part of an hour.

Ok, shameful crush, if I can't have max or maybe benedict cumberbatch or could I have James gandolphini (think it started back in the day of the sopranos?) oh and Craig Charles but rather his character in red dwarf-lister?

Witch I am an unexplained by the look of it :/ everything else is all good.

Anyone else here hate FB? Just logged on to be greeted with yet a another 'so and so are please you announce that we are expecting'. I was tempted to put 'expecting what exactly. I feel like having a mamouth tantrum and screaming WHY THEM and NOT ME!!! I'm also feeling a very bad person as I'm really not able to be happy for them just right now, even though she is lovely, a really nice person and they are I'm sure going to be perfect parents. But so would me and MATV

Boo for shit shower winkly. Baby showers seem to be getting very popular? When did us Brits get so American I wonder?

Oh yeah, rasp, facebook can fuck right off. My cousin comments on almost everything I post with some sort of child-related thing. I said I was getting up early this morning to watch the F1 qualifying, she comments about being up at that time due to her children. It makes me unreasonably screamy. I take a malicious sort of comfort in knowing that her kids take after her husband's rather unfortunate looks, and then hate myself for being such a horrible person.

Pure love thing sounds ridiculous. I'm glad I missed it!

Today there has been spotting. Today is day 22 and I'm usually 30 days, and theoretically 5 DPO today. I am trying not to get my hopes up for an implantation bleed, as this also happened last month and the droid appeared bang on time and stayed for a fortnight...

Well, in that case draff, may I be the first to hit you repeatedly with a trout?

No need to thank me.

rasp, I approve of Dave Lister as your inappropriate. V current. Quite enjoyed the first episode of Red Dwarf X. Against my better judgement after Back to Earth.

<outs self as Red Dwarf fan>

Alright BESH?

Sorry posting is still sporadic - job does not leave much time for posting stuff on MN at the moment.

Nice to see the new blood posting and keeping the thread entertained! I'm still looking for a new job, one which would hopefully leave more time for evening activities (no, not that type, you dirty betches!) and catching up with people!! Have two options at the minute, with a nice agency. One is an in-house corporate tax person at an insurance company and one is a group accountant at a law firm - need to revamp my CV before I get put forward for the latter though!

I am also getting fed up of those stupid BabyGaga FB updates which show me how far gone people are. Coupled with one silly moo talking about how her friends are avoiding her since she became diffed. It's no wonder - it's ALL SHE TALKS ABOUT!!! <is not bitter, not at all...>

Went to see Looper at the flicks last night, was very good! But now want to see Sinister and CGH (computer geek husband) is chicken!

Yes FB is the work of the devil. Cruella De'vil. Especially when trying to win a baybee! I left for a couple of months last year, just couldn't take it any more. Those tickers are pure evil. You know you can hide the updates from those? My colleague actually said oh you can have one of those after your 12 week scan. I said: no. No No. NO!

Ps I luff red dwarf too.

rasp I do hate fb but people text and phone & arrange in person meetings to tell me they're diffed so I just hate everything

Smoked salmon slaps for draf

Home now watching homeland and thinking marilynne glenville had best win me a baybee if she's making me stay sober for 3 months!

<reels from multiple fish to the face>

<pulls self together>

Ahem. Thanks, guys. That's better.

Sinister looks TERRIFYING. I want to see Looper though. And the new Bond.

Now BESHes. I have an entire grey mullet in my kitchen <true> for anyone requiring fishslaps. <Wields mullet menacingly> You need to get in quick though, as it is about to be dinner.

I don't do scary. I watched The Shining on my own at 18 and had to sleep wth my Mum. Cured me of scary films for life. Fortunately MSB isn't that fussed. We will be seeing the new Bond though.

Is it bad that when I read grey mullet I was thinking Peter Stringfellow?!

What what what? New Bond is out? Thought that was next week?

Don't do scary films since watching It when I was about 10. Error. Still scared of clowns

Tis released 22nd sinkers

Strangely enough, Ghoulies made me scared of clowns but It did nothing for me. Must be because I associate Tim Curry with corsets and suspenders

Yes, I agree Sinister looks terrifying (but I luffs scaring myself shitless) and one of my friends is going with me next weekend! And both I and CGH want to see new Bond. Hopefully it will be better than Quantum of Snorefest (where I fell asleep!)

Or it may have been Clownhouse. Either way, instant coulrophobia.

Oh... Want to see. Future tense. Must read more carefully.

When I was in the States, I kept dozing off with the telly on and waking up to trailers of Sinister. <shudder>

When I inadvertantly see scary trailers on tv I look them up on Wikipedia to read the plot. It's the only way I don't get the total hebey jebies.

<wuss>

Morning gouls,
God I slept well so consequently now can't wake up.

I have a question for any of you who have been moved on for IVF. As I said I have my next consultant appointment in 8 days. He if I wasn't pregnant by the I could either maybe try clomid or be referred for IVF. I know I should just be patient and wait until I see him to find out but I'd like to know NOW!

Any idea how this might go or even what sort of questions I should ask or ill just get in there and go blank. MATV is coming to so I have him as a back up, he's very good at asking stuff.

Ps I can't do scary films, I haven't watched one since I was 18 (the shining). I can't even do tension build up and watch most of Prometheus from behind a cushion! I also can't do gore. I like a good romcom me

Morning.

Have just sent ghj off to work with a bacon sandwich, and am now trying to psych myself up to try the herbs.

Tbh, I feel a bit nauseated even thinking about necking these bad boys. Apparently I can add honey to the hot water to make it more palatable.

I think this means they will taste worse than they smell.

Oh god. It looks like pond water and smells oddly sweet.

Do I add more water to dilute it, but increase the volume, or try and drink it as it is?

Honey is already in it. I'm not sure it's helped.

I'll have a go at a few suggestions, rasp. I'm sure the BESH hivemind can come up with others. I'd recommend going for a few walks (or wherever you do your best thinking ) in the days before the appointment and trying to really figure out your doubts and uncertainties so you can put those into questions.

-what would the aim be of Clomid? (for a regularly ovulating woman - I think you are ovulating as you are "unexplained")
-what side effects can I expect?
-how many cycles should I try it for?
-will I be monitored while I am on it?
-how successful is Clomid for women who are already ovulating?

-if I move to IVF now, when would I start?
-if I move to IVF after trying Clomid, when would I start?
-what would the drug regime for IVF be (short protocol/long protocol, etc)

The 'erbs sound vile, sinky. My first acu lady mentioned 'erbs a couple of times but never gave me any in the end. The current one hasn't mentioned them yet, thankfully.

I am up far earlier than I want to be. And contemplating a run. I rarely go two days in a row for fear of aggravating my Dodgy Knee, but I haven't done much at all this week, so I feel like I should make up for it at the weekend. And it would give me the spare calories to eat cake later. Hmmm.

Just knock it back, sinky, it'll be over quicker.

I've been up for ages already watching the formula one, now desperate for more sleep! HOTB and I will probably go out on our bikes later though, it's looking like another lovely day

Fuck me. That is disgusting.

I cannot do this twice a day.

Breathe in, drink, breathe out. That was my method with disgusting shots in my teens!

Thanks Euro, excellent start! That's exactly what I need, I'll definitely have to write it all down too, I'll forget everything the second we walk in otherwise.

Sinky! Hold your nose and knock it back in one go. Can you have something nice on standby to down straight after?

I'm up pretty early, going straight to supermarket at 10 to get soup making ingredients, going to make a massive job lot today for the coming week and I might freeze some too. Although I will require more Tupperware. Ahh the dilemmas of a domestic goddess. Not.

Morning BESH and welcome Raspberry. I'm bugs, but for now, i'm witch (yes yes i know its confusing!). 30, TTC for 2 years, 2 x Mc's and just starting all the tests and dildocam sessions to find out why.

Um, my droid is late. We may have accidently had the sechs a day before IO ov'd even though we didnt mean to. My boobs don't hurt like when i've been diffed before. Will POAS tomorrow if still no droid.

<gulp> I CANNOT face another mc.

Poas now?

<whollops bugs with fish marinaded in my 'erbs>

<and a subtle back rub. Test tomorrow, then the catastrophising can start>

Have managed 3/4 of a cup of the pond water. The bits that didnt dissovle sat at the bottom and started gettign stuck on my tongue. Boak. I think I'll ask not to be given any more.

Posted too soon

<strokes wizardly beard knowledgeably at accidental sechs>

One step at a time witchy though your gulping is understandable

Oh witchy thinking of you and keeping everything crossed. Pee tomorrow and take it from there. You know, it may be okay, I certainly hope so.

As to fish, I have some sea bass skin on offer for slapping, we ate the contents last night, was good

And go for a run euro, I've been for my first one since diffage (ie halfway through August) because my boobs got so hurty I didn't manage to run even double bra-ed. And it was lovely. Just three miles in the sunshine. Just under half an hour, which is okay speed for me. Unless of course you could do something else outdoorsy exercise wise. Do you cycle? I luff it.

Poor winkly with the 'erbs. The sound VILE. I could not do that to myself, but then I am anti-woo.

Draff we always take a note book in when we have appointments, because I hate the feeling of standing outside thinking, oops, I should have asked this or that.

I also tend to ask about stats,
what are the results of IVF for you age bracket, and your time of TTC in general?
how does this clinic measure up?
same for clomid
how do they deal with side effects?
how do they determine dosing decisions?
what tests could you do still?
are they useful?
etc

Norf the homework was less bad than anticipated. I cried all the way through, but I was expecting that. And it turns out my emotional mind is quite simple. I am apparently quite head up whether this MC happened because the "thing" thought it wasn't welcome or loved. My sensible head thinks this is STUPID, but it does bother me a lot emotionally. So how we resolve that I am not sure, but it was interesting to acknowledge that it bothers me. I did need to go outside immediately afterwards to return to my Victorian self and I am not keen on repeating the exercise. But it is done and I am proud.

Right, on that happy note, I am going to meet a friend for coffee and have a lovely Sunday. And I can have cake, cos I burned lots of calories already

Sorry Northy just saw your question - I'm turning 30 in 10 weeks! I didn't stick around to see the impending love in on that 'moment of pure love' thread. Puke fest indeed

Well I went for the run but the knee pain that I have had on and off for 12 years reared its ugly head and I had to walk back. I am going to have to see a physio.

raspberry 12 weeks for me <gulp>

Hello all, I'm back! Everyone survived the wedding and there were no dramas - phew!

Still confused as to what is going on with my body, the spotting has continued, off and on, and this morning I got something resembling EWCM God knows what is going on!

Oh yes, nice to see the Frolicker invasion

Blimey I'm in fertility overdrive today, I must have spent about 3 hrs in total scouring pregnancy/fertility stuff thinking about this next appointment. I've just been trying to find out where I might be referred to, how long the waiting lists are (I've just seen a newspaper article stating that the waiting lists have increased anything from 18-32 months??!!) and am just about ready to have a little meltdown. Why I can't just wait for the appointment I don't know

In other news I've sorted my tupperware, made some soup, watched quite a lot of Dog the Bounty hunter (bets he's someones shameful crush??) and had a roast beef dinner courtesy of MATV.

Well done surviving the wedding Frankel! Im all out of weddings now having had three this year. none next year now though Im not that bothered, I actually dont like weddings which is kinda why we put our own off for such a long time (11 years to be exact!)

Alwyn do you have any nice plans for your 30? I did mention a party t o MATV and he groaned and said he thought about a surprise party but didn't think I'd like it. he's kind of right but something would be nice.

Poor knee Euro I always knew running was evil. I tried it once this summer, 8.5k in an hr - I thought I was going to die and I got a blister on my foot!

I am also in the "turning 30 before Christmas" club, as is HOTB! However, as I recently gave up work (horrendous issues at previous job so taking a few months off to sort my head out) there is no money to spare, really. Especially as we have nine family birthdays and one close friend's birthday before Christmas too! I think we'll just go out for dinner, or some such thing.

I rode 31 miles today and am feeling (a) exhausted, and (b) pleased with myself. This is good effort for the IVF-criteria weightloss drive

Well done with all the activity peeps. After my run yesterday, managed to get out again today. In a similar vein to Euro, my shoulder is fecked and when it's bad I can't really run as it dislocates really easily and hurts. But marathon in 6 months and counting!

Am now going home to a chippy tea. With gravy obvs.

Well done on surviving the wedding Frankle- rather you than me..

Oh, and winkly saw in a post elsewhere that the shower really wasn't fun. Also well done on surviving.

Evening all!

Welcome newbies - good to have some fresh meat. I approve of Eddie Izzard as a crush of shame too. Any anyone who would take Clarkson over Paxman needs their head examining <stirs cauldron>

I have been away on hols and decided to come on mn less in an effort to make some mental space for other things. I was at a wedding yesterday and managed to answer the 'so when are you having kids' question without actually wanting to rip their face off, so maybe it's working.

<swishes repurposed witch cloak and departs on broomstick, cackling>

Hey! I resemble that remark!

sinky the shower was beyond awful. Really. And it didn't help that I was thinking "I had a positive test, of sorts, this day last week".

Today has been a much better day. Did circuits for an hour, didn't think I would survive it but did and then went to friend's house, played with lovely twins and got fed Sunday lunch, happy days.

Any news on the stick/droid front, bugs?

I am bored! It's supposed to be my week off but I've had to come in to work as they're interviewing for my boss' replacement this afternoon. I would rather be anywhere but here!

FutilityFiend has reverted back to the "Nope: you haven't ovulated" option so feck knows what is going on. If I don't get any clear indicators I will pee on something on Friday.

<surreptitiously drapes plastic sheeting over frankel's soft furnishings>

Morning hags.

I have been to see needles woo lady this morning. I like her. She doesn't think I have enough blood (or something). Several years of being veggie in the past plus monster heavy periods have depleted my blood or something. I might not be anaemic by western standards, but something is not right by chinese medicine standards. So she stuck some needles in me and a heater under me to try to warm me up. It was quite a nice start to the week.

But my knee is still banjaxed <technical term>.

I hope you are planning an evening of steak and spinach and red wine. Take that, pesky almost-naemia!

Hospital just called to say that HCG disappearance has slowed like a faulty broomstick. Bah. Back in next weekend then...

POAS BFN. Pah

Quite glad in a wierd sort of way as it means I don't need to jump into de-nile just yet.

Not enjoying my new MN name so may magically change back to my former self.

<waves wand>
<puff of smoke>

I'm back. That feels better.

I picked up my witches cat on the way too =^..^=

Epic NC fail!

Try again

=^..^=

I ackshooally had steak last night, norfy. But I can definitely manage the red wine.

How can the HCG not keep dropping now you have had the nasty drugs???

How do you namechange Bugs?

Because my HCG is evil and unruly and just wants to upset me. I'm quite glad I'm banned from ttc-ing for 3 months anyway, because of the methotrexate, otherwise I would be getting really agitated about the delay.

I want steak!

Urgh, awful day at work. One of our kids was knocked down on Saturday night in a hit and run (you may have seen it on the news).

Today has been sad and rubbish. I can't feel sorry for myself in any way because I still have my loved ones.

Oh God, Alwyn. I did see that. Poor young lad, only twelve years old . It must be so sad at school - I'm so sorry.

I'm back from Dorset and will now catch up. Hello hags.

Al I'm SO SO sorry. I know where that was (near Asda). We must live near by each other?

Euro via the 'MyMumsnet' bit.

I can't find it on news but it sounds awful and I'm so sorry.

Oh Al I'm so sorry. How horrific. Was he one of your pupils?

Thanks Bugs. I had tried to use My Profile before. But it's in the registration bit, I think.

alwyn that's just dreadful. How sad.

al really sorry to hear that.

Sorry al that is terrible

Al that's awful, how someone could do something like that is just beyond me Horrific

Also, norf that is shit. What's the plan with wayward hcg?

I didn't teach him personally but I do teach one of his brothers. Can't believe they were both in today - so much strength!

And yes bugs, we must be fairly close by!! I'm a Pudsey girl

I'm so sorry Al. You're allowed to be sad you know - for the life lost, for the impact you know it's having on his family and friends. how awful.

Morning all

How are you today al? And norf ? Your hcg needs its ass firmly kicked.

Morning witches.

al I'm so sorry to hear about your pupil. How is school today?

bugs has droid turned up yet?

No plan with hcg, lemons. Just presenting my arm for blood every week till it goes away. When is your next counselling sesh?

Morning fishwives. Well, afternoon actually.

I'm feeling pretty good today. The sun is shining and I went for pilates (or pirates as it is now known chez euro) before work so I am feeling tall.

Ov is looming though, so the mentalling is imminent.

Al I lived in Bradford for a while and moved to Halifax then Huddersfield where i've remained since.

Droid is almost here.

I lived in Yeadon until last summer and worked in Leeds City Centre. We would have been so close to each other!

Hello all. Hope you're alright, al, why a horrible situation to have to deal with

Sun here too, though a bit chilly. I've put in some miles on my bike and had lunch with a friend, all is right with the world! Droid due at the weekend, mind you.

afternoon ladies. Euro/Evil please don't hog the sun, it's really gloomy where I am and I would like you to share it please and quite drizzly.

Evil are you a roadie on the bike then or off road? I love mountain biking and got into it in a big way a few years ago but this last year, since I got married really, I've lost it completely but really miss it. I'm due on this weekend too, Sunday to be precise.

I'm having my hair cut at home tonight! Such a novelty, I usually go to a salon but my hairdresser lost her premises and is in the middle of setting up the new one so tonight she's coming to me.

I don't think I'm technically good enough to be either really, raspberry, but roadie I guess! I can see the appeal of mountain biking though, but it's been a long time since I went over anything more bumpy than the occasional kerb! The Tour de France this year got me all enthused (it should have done last year really with Cav doing so well), followed by the Olympics and various other tours. I got my road bike for Christmas last year for the triathlon-that never-was and loved it from the very first ride. I'm particularly loving it because it's both safe and fun, neither of which are the case with running. Seeing as it was running that sent me into anaphylaxis I'm very wary of doing it again, but so far even pushing quite hard on the bike hadn't had the same effect, hurrah!

I'd share the sun if I could! It's a nice thing about the east, it may be fecking cold in winter, but it also tends to be relatively dry and sunny

Is it wrong to still feel narked that friend of ours who got married 3 months after us have just announced they are diffed for the second time.
? I know I am pregnant and all that but I still feel irritated that they have had it so easy!

Not at all. A friend of mine who has a shiny new baybee was moaning the other day about being jealous of a diffed friend of hers. I was lost for words.

Nope, completely understandable. I am massively of my friend who is due to drop with DC2 next month, they got married 3 weeks before us. It's about not being where you expected to be in life dor.

YES, faif, that's exactly it. I always planned to have three children, and to have them before I turned thirty. I'm thirty in December, so there is an outside chance I'll have DC1 while I AM thirty, but that's as close as it'll get.

Although I have been wondering vaguely about adoption, so if IVF is a massive failure, you never know, maybe my DC have been born already? <strange thought>

faith has hit the nail on the head I think. It's about expectations and then having to reframe them when those expectations turn out to be completely wrong!

I definitely find myself irritable with those people whose lives working out exactly as they thought it should be. I need to be more gracious but I find it annoying!

God yes. I am so graceless and bitter about people who seem to have it easy, even though I know perfectly well they could be secretly living with all sorts of awfulness, just not choosing to share it.

I can manage to pretend to be graceful about it for a short period of time but not for long. I sometimes have to restrain myself from posting very unhelpful things on the boards here when people complain about babies not sleeping or unexpected/unwanted pregnancies

Oh gosh I'm completely lacking in grace. It's quite bad actually. Slightly better since being diffed but not much I saw my friend whose (?who's) baybee was still born in July. She is so very gracious. Obviously hurting a lot still but grateful that she had her daughter despite what happened. Hugged me when I said I was diffed. I don't think I'd be so gracious in her position. She has a wonderful nature though! I found it humbling to spend time with her.

Oh gosh, your poor friend, fee. How very courageous she sounds.

I saw her on a good day it seems but yes, she's amazing.

Hello hags. Droid showed up today, after a week of on and off spotting. I'm now waiting for the clinic to call me back and let me know if they can fit me in this cycle. More than a little gutted to be honest, part of me was still clinging to the hope that we might manage a baybee win without help. Daft I know, considering all previous evidence.

Not daft at all, FSR. I think everyone hopes that.

<Swats Droid with broomstick>

Sorry, fsr. <plonks droid in caldron and turns up heat to max> Definitely not daft to have hoped. I think everyone does.

Quick sneaky post from work

Droid arrived. Had day 2 blood test today. Full results on 24th.

The menkul has begun. I will never win a baybee.

Droidal invasions Sorry guys.

It's not daft to hope fsr, we all do it.

<adds the bugsdroid to the cauldron>

Sorry bugs But good luck with investigations. Are these the ones for recurrent miscarriage?

Sorry for hogging the sunshine again. I just fell asleep on the living room floor - sun pouring through the back door v soporific! Very odd, mind, I'm not a daytime napper usually.

Sorry for all afflicted by droid. Frankel, I reckon everyone has those hopes, not daft at all. Especially given that the world and his wife has an anecdote about a friend of a friend getting diffed in the cyle before starting IVF (or similar).

Thanks all, and sorry about your droid Bugsy.

Clinic called back, they have room so I'm having my baseline scan and blood test on Monday morning. Then, it's self-stabbing time!

Eek! I must admit, I am really not looking forward to any self-stabbing that comes my way.

Had prepped everything for a roast tonight, but have been overcome with weariness and can't face cooking or eating it.

Now then ladies, none of this "self stabbing". Apparently it really doesn't hurt and it's nothing like normal injections <tells self manically>. We must ask Jethro as she is about to get her first lesson.

Faithy, your poor friend

I have a v important observation to prep resources for, so CGH is cooking tonight! Steak for him, fish for me!

We ate celebrating because MSB is now officially on leave too we ate having steak (cremated for me of course!) before going out for our next Relate session. Only 1 week til the scan now

Commiserations all round for droidal invasions. However I am glad that things are moving forward. Frank good luck with the stabbing, sending baybee winning thoughts your way! bugs you will have your win, blood tests are the first step to winning that sticky baybee. Have a gentle halibut slap.

Good luck with the observation, al.

When is jethro doing the stabbing??

Quite soon I think. Don't know exactly.

Did someone mention me

I've had my protocol letter. We need to order the drugs then book in for a stabbing lesson. Then I need to start on CD21. I think as I'm on CD 12 now we won't have enough time this cycle so will wait until next one. Also gives me a bit more time to get my head round it all. Even though it's been almost 3 years I never really thought it would actually happen.

Stabbing sounds quite complicated. Interesting, though. Take notes for us, Jethro!

Futility Friend has rearranged my ov day from 17 to 22. I have no clue if it's remotely correct. Day 22 is the day of mystery spotting, does that help or hinder the idea?! We shall see. Droid is bound to arrive on time in any case, though, why break the habit of a lifetime, etc...

To those asking about stabbing, it really is fine. I've done a trigger shot on my Letrozole attempt and two weeks of downregging. I'm not bothered by needles and it really didn't hurt. You just grab a bit of tummy chub and stick the needle in. It really is as simple as that.

We didn't get as far as using the Gonal F pens but we were given the demonstration. They have a dial system and you have to change the needles on them each time. They didn't look too bad. I think menopur is the one you have to mix from sachets and that looks a bit more complicated, but we weren't going to use that so I don't know the details.

BTW, the first few injections I did completely by myself. After that I decided KFZK should be involved, so I got him to prep the injection for me each evening.

Did you have any sort f mental block about actually sticking it into yourself, euro? A bit like the mental block about tearing off a plaster I suppose - the knowledge that it might hurt kicks in?

Gonal-f pens sound like insulin. I imagine it's something that seems complicated initially but becomes routine quite quickly. As long as you have some belly fat it's not too painful to inject.

Today MSB is building a shed base. I feel like crap so have crawled back into bed!

I have Menopur waiting in the fridge for me [joy] I'm sure I'll screw up the mixing or summat [klutz]

norfy it is a bit weird, sticking a needle through your own skin, but you just have to go for it. TBH, it hurt me less than plucking an eyebrow hair. The needles are very fine.

Some people get their OHs to do it, so they don't have to deal with that mental barrier. But I just took a deep breath and went for it.

I love plucking hairs out of myself (and anyone else who stands still long enough) so that bodes well.

Massive sigh at the strong assumption that I'll end up at that point.

Anyone got a menkul to share?

I too love plucking hairs.

Norf, we'll be fine! <optimisitic>

What is a menkul?

Of course you will be fine!

"What is a menkul?"

We have to begin at the beginning! . A menkul is just a mental phase usually brought about by PMT and involves incessant, probably-hopeless symptom spotting e.g womble aches and pains MUST be implantation pains, onset of droid is SURELY implantation bleeding, sore boobs are DEFINITEY preggo-boobs etc etc etc. That's the TTC menkul at least.

General BESH menkul is anything you get vaguely mad about e.g two weeks ago I cried for more or less two days on hearing that my SIL was pregnant again and was totting up the number of ways that my life was generally crap and how I was generally a rubbish, awful, useless person. Again PMT inspired. There will shortly be amongst the BESH (I imagine) all kinds of needle-inspired menkul, whether that's Jethro's Akchool IVF, or my IUI (again involving hormones, needles --and probably murdered husbands--).

Basically it's anything mad which is usually hormone inspired.

Feel free to add....

Bugger. Strike out fail. I blame the bracket.

And probably murdered husbands.

Ah, so my reading of a fluffy, adorable story complete with happy ever after ending and ending up all swimmy with tears is a menkul, then? I'm due at the weekend <gloomy face>

Yes, rie sums it up excellently - my menkulling included tiredness, erratic crying, wanting to be violent towards MSB, spotting, nausea (especially on waking) and actually vomiting!
Month I got my BFP, I wasn't even really aware of when the droid was due. 'twas only that I had a hypo at 11dpo and vomited at 12 that made me think I just wonder. Weird, yes? I was tired and had sore buzzwams but put all symptoms down to PMS.

When do you start rierie?

Dunno yet Faithy. Sometime in 2018 I should imagine <gloomy>

We are doing Teh Sechs at the moment though it does feel a little futile.

Ah! Yes I am very familiar with the concept, if not the title

Iz you on a waiting list rie?

Yar. Apparently I am being fast tracked due to my extreme decreptitude and ancient powdered eggs. could have fooled me

Ah, the menkul. I am about to enter my menkul phase - the 2ww. I think egg laying is imminent. <Clucks manically>

Ladies I bring exciting news. Well for me at least. Tonight - I managed to do the splits on BOTH sides. I should explain as I'm throwing this at you cold - I am a bit obessessed with stretching and getting splits, its taken me months and months to get it and tonight I got right down to the floor and could sit back. This was after an hr of exercise. Im now fully cooled down a few hrs later and tried again and managed it again. This makes me VERY happy! sad I know but I had to share

Hope everyone having to get stabby is getting on ok. I've been thinking about the whole IVF thing quite a bit today, think I'm starting to get a bit panicky about the appointment next week and DH doesn't really know what to say so I'm just quietly stewing in my own hysteria.

faith what was your story in the end? I remember you from days of old and hadn't realised you were diffed! congratulation . Who else is diffed around here too?

I'm sort of semi Menkulling. I've had very to slightly sore boobs for over a week now but it's going off slowly. Very tired, a bit over emotional and clingy and feeling a bit sicky. However, I did have some PMT type cramps this morning.

Oh no dont judge me - MATV not DH!!! Ggaaaarrrrgghhh like I say it's hard being new!

raspberry 'twas male factor infertility. He had a thing making the wrong hormones. One tablet each week corrects the problem. It took nearly a year of testing to get the diagnosis. That was also the week our house caught fire yes, 2011 was an eventful year! Anyway, 8 months after he started treatment, I lost some weight, we decided to stop TTC til we were on the IVF waiting list, lo and behold, BFP! I am 12 weeks tomorrow, scan is on Wednesday. I'm excited to see the bean and tell everyone that I haven't already told!

Other differs or PESH are dor, laurapalmer, cakey, blonder, queenie, camel and fertilityFTW. We have a thread in ante-natal clubs here, it's where the ESH when we get BFPs and actually believe them

Congratulations on the splits!

Thanks for sharing Faith! So glad you got your BFP and hope all goes well for the scan, will be amazing to see your little bean wriggling around. Awful about your house though? Must have been horrendous. My nan & grampy's house burnt to the ground many years ago, I remember my dad (at work at the time on shifts) ringing in early hrs to say it had happened. Was all very quick and their three dogs didn't make it out

My nephew calls my Dad Grampy
The fire was awful, words can't describe really. Fire damage was limited to the kitchen but smoke damage affected the whole bungalow. It took 6 months to do the repairs. Fortunately we were fully insured and the place is now better than it was before! It could have been much worse to be honest but we did lose a lot of stuff. We moved home in June and it feels like home again now. Just waiting for the dining table (long saga about quality control problems!) but we should get that by the end of the month! Finally feels like things are on the up!

It will be all perfect for when you bring the LO home in six or so months then

Congratulations on your flexible witch toad legs, bananasplit. And boo to hysterical lonely stewing.

Does anyone here have a chap who ever knows what to say? Even in the depths of despair I have to lead AMNH through his half of the conversation by the hand.

Morning hags!

Right, I was going to reassure people about stabbing, but then lovely faif got me right between the eyes. Congrats on making 12-weeks and it should have been ours on Sunday, I managed to not think about that much but count since MC, a month tomorrow, but than one hit home Anyhow, you know you deserve it, and I am happy for you, I am just a bit scared about more diffage surrounding out due date to be announced in the next few weeks.

Re: menkulling, fish slaps anyone? Please? It is a month since MC, just over 3 weeks since checkins scan which showed no embryo but some junk still in place. But my body claimed egg laying activities on our lovely weekend away, nearly two weeks ago. I feel no different, except for waves of exhaustion. This could easily be because I have been sleeping worse and working lots. BUT I am menkulling like a mad thing... Next counselling sesh next week, she believes in fortnightly, which is fine by me, and especially fine by my wallet, norf

As for stabbing, I have done trigger-shots (3x) and menopur (1 course of 8 days). And in my opinion the actual stabbing is fine, do get a nurse to show you, and do it once in their presence, so you know you can do it. I found the mental thing easy. BUT I found the mixing of menopur mega-traumatic. I was completely convinced I did things wrong, didn't get the right amount in, etc, etc (speaking as a lab-trained person, this is concerning). But it was all fine, and produced the desired for result, two egglets in my case. I now thing the needle-menkul was partially a side effect of the menopur.

We have a snaky rasberry in the house. Well impressed.

Btw I have been missing you but have been exercising and entertaining non-diffed, non-sprogged friends, it was good. And I already can tell the difference in fatness in my smart tight dress. I have stuff I need to go to this afternoon, which once again I need to prep at home. So I'll be in an out.

How are school things, al?

Apologies for no effort at name checking

<sneaky hug for drizz> thank you my luffly. I'll be 12+5 at my scan so most people due around our original due date will be declaring in the next week or so. Did you see the Rooneys have announced her diffment yet she's not due til May? Must have had an early scan?!

I'm not sure the menkulling ever goes away but it's good that your body is gearing up to lay eggs again. Well done on the exercising

Yeah - I saw that announcement and thought she was mad to go public so early (and did think she must be getting porky really quickly to need to tell people now and evil cackle). And yeah, another week or two with scary announcements to survive. And then, it will be ok.

Btw apologies for my complete inability to spell.

My twelve week checkpoint was earlier this week. Ho hum. convulsive sob I too dread diff announcements <muscles in on the sneaky hug>

No need to muscle in <grabs norf with frightening enthusiasm>.
I made carrot cake last night, have some and a huge cuppa, as it seems a little early for gin and I do need to go to a meeting and network for work later

Oh, which reminds me... I was at a leaving do of new work yesterday, and someone actually asked me first whether I had pets (because last time I told her I had no kids) and then followed it up with the question of HOW DID I SPEND MY WEEKEND sans kids and pets... I was gob-smacked.

Literally, she asked how I filled the time...

But the price for unfeeling comments goes to my hated SIL. Who after SB bought them an expensive present, which involved the baby warehouse, you'll remember, when I was excused for MC-reasons. Right, get the picture? SB went there, shopped with them, bought an expensive piece of baby stuff for them, drank a cup of tea and then... SiL asked outright whether we were jealous, because they have a baby and got it so easily. I am still in shock, and quite cross with her. How could she do that to my lovely SB who went out of his way and way out of his comfort zone to make their baby feel welcome?
So I won't have to go to any events where she will be present for the foreseeable future. And SB will not attend any small gatherings where avoidance of the stupid cow is impossible...

I can't even think of words, drizz. That is the most awful thing. How long after the MC was that? Did she know about it? Even if she was ignorant that's beyond horrible. I don't blame you for avoiding her in future.

And the idiot at work can fuck off too. I am outraged on your behalf.

[makes a voodoo doll of Drizzly's SIL] Stupid bint!

To all you previous self-stabbers, how did you get on with doing it yourself? I'm not sure I can train the cat to help me, so I'm going to have to get on with it myself.

Manly shoulder pats for Norf and Drizz

My BF's due date was on Wednesday, I texted her this morning to see how she was doing and she said "I had cramps last night, but they've gone now. Think I just ate too much!"

Three weeks after MC, and we told them about that and had told them about our troubles TTC when they announced their diffage nearly a year ago now (at about 6 weeks). In the hope of getting a little bit of breathing space and not be inundated with pregnancy-photos, updates etc.

I avoided her for the present-buying expedition, because frankly I find baby-shops frightening. Let alone in the current, much better, but still fairly fragile state... So poor SB had to deal by himself (I did home work and then cuddled the nephews on my side, who have an overfertile but sensitive mum).

It beggars belief, it really does. Three weeks?! She might as well have said it on the day it happened. <fuming>

FSR self-stabbing with menopur went as follows chez drizz:
Stabbing time -30minutes:
take the stuff from the fridge (a powder, a liquid in a glass vial), apparently it can sting if it is really cold
Stabbing time -5 minutes:
Get needles out as well, sit down, breath easily: connect the "suck-up" needle to the what-you-call-it, the not-needly part of the injection thing
Stabbing time -3 minutes:
Remove the seal from the powder, leave the rubber cap, you stab through it. Break the glass vial (with a bit of kitchen towel or a handy breaky tool, or by hand, but I did get glass in my hands the first time I did it by myself, but the menopur went in). Suck up the liquid, stab the rubber cap of the powder vial and put the liquid in. Suck all the liquid up from the vial (with the dissolved menopur in it). Switch the needle to the stab-yourself-needle and faff to get the air out.
Stabbing time -30 secs:
Whip off your trousers (if you stab legs like me) or whip up your top. Optional cleaning of the injection side with a bit of alcohol.
Stabbing time:
Grab some fat with the left, stab it with the prepared injection, slowly and carefully inject, pull needle out, whip trousers back on, dispose of needles in sharps bin (or empty jam jar).

Easy! I found the bold bits the most stressful, but all in all, I cannot wait to play again...

PS I have self-medicated with carrot cake

What a pair of stupid cows, drizz! I am preparing my most evil spell of all, and sharpening my wand in case it's easier just to stab them with it.

lemons I think I would have sent her a text telling her to fuck the fuck right off and fuck off again until she can find a little bit of sensitivity. What a massive cow.

drizz at your stupid cow sil. Quite amazed SB managed to control his temper.

As for your work colleague - that puts me in mind of my sister's friend who I was talking to once, I said I was very busy at the time and she said "you can't possibly know what its like to be busy since you don't have any children" She makes snide little comments like this every single time I see her. Cos I just spend all my time lounging having a man in a loincloth feed me grapes.

Thanks for the heads up the it is most definitely her not us/me. Thankfully I have no direct contact with her (don't even have her phone number) so I can't follow your excellent suggestion dot. But I'll keep it in mind.

What we're actually thinking of telling SB's parents so they can understand our unwillingness to do fun things with the whole family (two brother, two wifes, one baby and them). Otherwise it will be all lemon has an issue with her, lemon does not want to see them, lemon cannot deal with babies (on their side, I hasten to add). My MiL is quite jealous and always quietly but quite obviously compares how much we hang out with my brilliant family (remember, their response to MC was bringing food, flowers and love and fairly complete understanding of our grief and need to hide from babies) as compared to how much we hang out with SB's.

<accepts another peeled grape>

Sorry, winkly, you were saying? Got a bit distracted there for a minute.

I think I'll suggest your way of spending a weekend winkly to SB. It sounds quite good. Just wondering though, who peels their grapes?!? That does sound like someone with WAY too much time on their handse

How come your parents know already but not SB's, lem? Was that a conscious or accidental thing? I am round the other way - I wouldn't mind AMNH's parents knowing the whole sorry story, but really feel unpleasantly vulnerable about revealing it to my parents.

Thanks Drizz, when you look at the stabbing that way, it doesn't sound too bad.

A new (and final [sob]) advert has been made for my namesake's last race in just over a week's time. I'm going (of course, duh!) but thought I'd share it with you all [sobs uncontrollably at thought of no more Frankel races to watch]

Oh SB's parents know about the TTC woes, not yet about the MC, but I was talking about telling them what the witch SIL said... Well, SB was thinking about that. He wants to tell them about the MC but he hasn't. I am much closer to my parents than he is to his, so I went to my mum's and wailed after the bad scan. SB would never do anything like that . In some ways he is the man...

Right, time to do some actual work, away from the comfort of my couch. So waves and good weekends to you all! (I'll be back, just don't know when)!

Oh his bravely fluttering tail! Sob!

How does one actually go to watch? Do you just turn up and pay some money and walk in?

Yup, though in the case of his last race the tickets (capacity 35,000) sold out about a month ago.

It's a whole big day of racing, 6 or 7 races, with the top horses from across the country, plus quite a few from Ireland and France. It's sort of the big Finale to the end of the season IYSWIM.

It'll be on BBC1 too.

Oh, I know what you mean, norf. I have decided to tell my parents so many times and every time I've bottled it. It's weird, as all of our friends know but no family at all.

FSR we'll be here to hold your hand through the withdrawal that will follow after the last race but weren't you going to stalk him afters, I don't recall Enjoy the last day of racing though!!

Oh yeah, leaving the house...

<slowly finding some smart shoes>

<sadly revises half-arsed plan to turn up and watch> Is this his last race of the season or his last race ever?

Yep, draf, lots of my friends know, but I cant bear the thought of telling my parents. I think it's in case nothing ever works, in which case I think I would have to pretend that I had never tried, rather than admit I'd tried and failed.

I am going to stalk him afterwards, but it's not the same as watching him run [wails].

Norf, it will be his last race ever as he will be starting stud duties in February, making lots of little Frankels. There is a very, very, very slim chance that he might have one more race, but it would have to be abroad as the turf flat racing season finishes in Europe at the start of November.

Wow, good vid. What an astonishing horse. I'm not hugely into racing (and flat racing in particular), but that is impressive! Eventing is more my thing, but it doesn't have quite the same following or monetary input. Murphy Himself was one of the most exciting horses I've ever seen. It must have been terrifying to ride him, he had no fear at all.

Because Drizz, there cannot possibly be anything to do in life without having procreated . You should have said "My life is one long weekend, because I am not constantly running around doing laundry, making meals and clearing up sick and poo."

I know we don't really think that but hopefully that should shut up anyone who is smug about their life. I saw some pics on FB the other day of a group of friends I used to hang around with before I moved away and there they were, all sprogged up. Toddlers, small children, preggo tummies...everything. (I thought "God, am I the only infertile person I know in RL?") I said something tongue in cheek about them all having entered middle age and he said something back about me being jealous or something. I was so tempted to let rip but really couldn't be bothered

Stud duties for Frankel eh? Shame he isn't a human. We'd all be queuing up.

evil I never thought much of racing until I moved to my current location, then got bitten by the bug! I used to work for these guys so was utterly spoilt with great horses.

<casts spell to make offspring projectile vomit on Drizz's SIL>

Jeepers you lot can talk can't you?! I will catch up properly later, am currently travelling in our new camper down to visit MSB's Nan!

drizz your SIL is beyond contemptible! I cast her in a Disney villan role Cruella de Ville, cruella de Ville.... Did you not smugly inform your colleague that us child-less people spend our weekends having lie ins and having all the sechs?! You know like, sechsing, you remember what it was like pre-kids making passionate lurve on a Sunday morning instead of squeezing a quickie in when the kids are asleep?!

<dreams of the days of passionate lurve on a Sunday morning rather than a snatched duty shag because I might be ovulating> Actually, I'm dreaming of any kind of shag at all. I am barred from sechs till the evil drug wears off, and I know I complained about having to do it all the time, but without something to make us do it we just don't do it at all!

aries, I knew one other infertile person in real life, but after she eventually won a baybee (after about ten years trying), she went completely over to the dark side and is now completely dreadful for things like every single Facebook update being about "the wonder of being a mommy". Heave.

Good God, Norf she sounds ghastly. I trust you have struck her off your friends list? Funny isn't it how former long standing barrens can forget the moment they strike gold? Not saying they all do, I absolutely hasten to add <casts terrified look round for lurking FESH/PESH>

I am hopefully going to get a duty shag in later aka clambering on. Have the Egg White. Don't know why I'm bothering with it, there's surely far more sensible uses for the stuff, such as making meringues. Collecting it could be problematic though.

Spaff meringues. Eugh.

Not spaff you fool. EWCM. Much more acceptable.

A long departed BESH used to joke about that so I didn't think of it (disclaimer).

I too have the egg white but Husband has declared himself Not Interested in sechsing. Meringues you say?

Putting an explanation mark after fool would have made it more lighthearted the way it was intended, by the way No offence meant, Euro.

Oh hello winkly.

Do you care to donate to the BESH Meringue Fund?

Every other garment in the charity shops round here is labelled EWM. I assume it stands for Edinburgh Woollen Mill, but it isn't half disconcerting.

"Homemade" meringues?! Eeeeeeeeeew! Although I'd appreciate the chance, I rarely have any to speak of.

Appearance of droid is imminent. I have been grumpy, teary, and cheerful by turns this morning. Then jumped HOTB, which seems to have accelerated droidal onset. Now have backache and am studiously ignoring the idea of digging out the tampax later on. I've also bought a mooncup, which will be delivered within 14 days, which amuses me - that's about how long the droid stayed last time.

Still, HOTB is going to be away all weekend, so it could be worse timing.

Did you see the Big Bang Theory the other evening in which Sheldon advocated buying tampons in bulk?

No, was it funny?

Sorry about droid-imminence, giraffe. God I hate periods and all their bastard works.

No, and am now trying to imagine why he'd want them?! I love Sheldon, even more than Leonard

It was funny. It was advice he was giving to Penny.

I'd love a friend like Sheldon - everything they discuss is so gloriously unembarrassed and unemotional.

Ah yes buying 30 years worth of tampax! I told MSB she was better off buying a moon cup!

driz what utter wankers. Can't imagine what us barrens do at the weekend? Clearly they have no imagination.

Unused EWCM could also be used for a mousse type pudding....Just sayin.

I am currently having a complete meltdown about actually having IVF. I had snotty, howling tears last night. I am usually an ice queen so SSG didn't really know what to do. I've stopped howling and am ignoring the protocol letter until tomorrow. When I might look at it again.

Oh Jeffers .

Sorry, didn't realise you were in such a state. Is it the thought of having it, or having to have it, if you see what I mean?

Neither did I until last night. I just couldn't stop crying, then this morning we took the dog for a walk and he growled at me then I started crying again. WTF?? I just feel overwhelmed by what I've got to do. I think I've not really allowed myself to think that the IVF would actually happen & now it's here. I'm just gibbering now aren't I

Gibber away, luffly pal.

Aww, Jethro When we were told our best chance was IVF I was in a right state. That was way back in May and I still haven't managed to make myself read the info booklets we were given. Crying is a fairly reasonable response, I think.

I sobbed when we were told that a. Our best chance of conceiving was IVF and b. I was too fat and had to lose weight first. I think it's a daunting process and you will avoid accepting its a reality until you face it and once again you're grieving for the life you thought you'd have e.g. An easy win, pure lurve shagging rather than the clinical process. Ultimately the win will be worth it but coming to terms with the clinical process can't be easy. Luff you jeffers!

Aww, I know how you feel Jethro, and it is totally understandable and not in the slightest bit daft.

I had my most recent sob-fest in Wednesday when droid showed up and it hit home that it wasn't going to happen "naturally" for us.

It's all a big steaming pile of turd

Yes, faith. It's particularly galling to be told I'm too fat to be pregnant when so many friends get diffed so easily, several of whom are a good deal bigger than me. It's clearly not that simple! My parents tried for two years to onceive me, apparently, and my mum was a waif compared to me, so I suspect there may be inherited crap-at-getting-diffed issues too. But who knows, it's all "unexplained" <frustrated growl>

HOTB has departed for his cycling weekend. It's very quiet. I think I might put big bang theory on...

Of course you're gibbering, lovely. It would be a miracle if you weren't. Don't cry, sweetie. Or rather, cry if you want to and we will all offer our collective shoulder till you have cried it all out and feel better again. You are among ice queens here, who all totally understand the suppressing of mentalness and the awfulness of giving way to it at last.

<hunts for a soothing fish> Who had the Cod of Comfort last and didn't put it back?

Blimey you lot have been busy! I've had a busy day so only managed to check in once, the cheek of it - work actually expecting me to complete actual work on a FRIDAY. What is the world coming to.

lemon I think I'd have slapped your SIL, what an awful thing to say. The UnBarren really don't get it at all, yet the thing that makes it worse is the fact that they think they do 'know'. But really ..... they absolutely have not got a clue and no amount of telling will change their mind. I have a friend who tries to be sensitive (I think) but then bangs on about adoption/surrogacy/are we having sex at the right time/we obviously aren't doing it right....why am I not watching out for pant snot.... bangs head against wall Drives me potty.

Jethro I sympathise lovely, I'm feeling a bit wobbly about it at the moment and know it will get worse. Until this thread I never thought about why though and I guess it is as you've all said, its about grieving for the life we wanted, the way we wanted to do it. (((((hugs)))))

I'm on day 29 of my 30 day (I reckon) cycle. I feel a bit sick and definitely very tired but starting to get crampy and have had headaches the last few days. I don't know whether to test? I pee'd on an opk and a second line came along but not as thick and dark as the control line so can't convince myself much with that! I might wait until Monday, I really can't face a BFN, it's worse than getting the bitch turn up. And I want to have my bottle of Bulmers Berry Cider.

Cold Comfort Cod.

I like it.

I saw something nasty in the egg-shed? a depressing lack of eggs

Hola. Am a bit drunk on red wine.

driz, I have punched your SIL in the ovary. Hope that helps.

I also have a friend who "knows how I feel" because she tried for 8 months pre diffedness. Her comment when I went to see her with baybee was along the lines of that I'm lucky to not be able to have kids because they cry a lot. Lucky me. With my insurmountable infertility eh?

Anyway. fsr may I stroke your head in sorrow at Frankles departure. But think of the little Frankles to come!..

Norf, egg-shed? Now I'm thinking Divine Comedy, some thing in the woodshed..

And in me news, have thrown myself into work. This means baybee would be v inconvenient. It's all too much for something that may never happen. And I happen to be quite good at my job. I maybe rethinking things.

Jethro I identify with every word you posted. I never thought I would end up there either. My two best friends had IVF and I kept thinking "what are the odds of all three of us needing it? Surely one of us will get a FCFU?" But apparently not.

<Proffers broad shoulder, for crying on as needed>

Witch I am doing something similar. My work isn't that busy BUT I have been headhunted. No offer yet but we are in talks. It would, fertility-wise, be a dreadful time to move (with more IVF looming) but I feel like I have put my life on hold enough. And this would be a promotion. Hmmmm.

It's from Cold Comfort Farm, sink. Some old woman kept going on about how she once saw something nasty in the woodshed.

Rethinking things??

Sorry. I may have given the impression with my Cold Comfort Cod comment that I am au fait with Cold Comfort Farm. I haven't - I lack culture.

I am going to post just one more Frankel video before I stagger to bed. This was his win in the 2,000 Guineas, one of the most prestigious races a colt can win, back in May 2011. I was there, screaming my head off near the winning post. Every time I watch this race back I am blown away.

Even if you don't like or understand racing, you can hear from the incredulity in the commentators voice that this horse is something special.

Here endeth the sermon

<staggers towards bedroom, bouncing off walls as she goes>

I once watched an episode of the tv series Cold Comfort Farm? Not sure if that makes me cultured. I suspect not.

Rethink in a "life is passing me by while I fanny around trying to make the improbable possible" kind of way.

I shall adjourn, and dream of Frankle. And possibly be in a better mood tomorrow after a run and a dose of the woo needle man. But no herbs. Managed that one dose, almost vomed and have hidden the rest in a tea caddy.

Arrrrgh, I feel sick. This is not allowed. I have no problem with throwing up if I'm ill (which I'm not), or if I'm diffed (which I'm not). Feeling sick otherwise is NOT OKAY.

Do you know why, draf?

I feel a bit crap too. In my case it's from overeating yesterday and then sleeping badly.

Probably just getting up too early, norf. I have a very weak stomach/bowel that panics and ejects all contents at the slightest sign of illness/stress. It means I am completely au fait with throwing up, but it is tiresome.

I seem to have a wobbly stomach this morning as well. Probably as a result of the aforementioned overeating last night.

What are you stressing about?

Oh, nothing really. But getting up at 5.45 and watching qualifying is not "normal" so my innards go WTF and play up. Stress doesn't have to be very severe to affect my insides! You can imagine the state I was in during my last couple of months at work, with HR heavily involved and then resigning due to stress! I became quite good at downing tools and getting to the loo as quickly as possible.

I was hopeful that being a lady of leisure (and associated lack of stress) would help us win a baybee, but that hope is dwindling now I've had two and a half cycles since my last day. Still, it means more gin-time, I guess.

Leaving a stressful job (in what sound like similar circs - I was quite deranged by the end) and taking some time off won me a bfp last year. I think it took 3 cycles, so you are due a win.

In which case, I shall remain hopeful!

Day two of droid's stay so far. If it's still here at day ten I'm going to go to the GP - the last three cycles have had droid here for 12-14 days, which is taking te piss.

It was another ectopic, in my case. Just mentioning it in case you get the wrong end of the stick and ask me how my baybee is, btw.

at Cod of Comfort Norf you need to trademark that!

Thanks for understanding BESH. It's shitty being a Barren but at least I have other Barrens that don't think I'm a complete weirdo.

Why are so many of us up early on a Saturday anyway - don't us Barrens live the life of Riley, lazing in bed on silk sheets and having loads of The Sechs because We Don't Have Children?!

It's all about the formula one, Jethro! Stupid Korea, being in an inconvenient time zone...

Norf, I guessed from your earlier posts that the win did not last - so sorry

I was at 6am by a very insistent colon... Also because there was no oxygen left in the bedroom after AMNH's post-curry flatulence. These truly are the joys of a childless existence.

How are you feeling this morning?

I was woken at 6 by ghj going to work, but losing his phone in the bedroom first.

Am now luxuriating in bed with tea and jammy toast. And pealed grapes, obvs.

Morning hags!

You're all up very early. I thought I'd be the first in here!

Jethro I had your wobbles before starting IUI about 6 months ago and will do again if we start IVF, which I am putting my head firmly in the sand about.

I feel very rough this morning, because I had a bad night sleep after a bottle of Rioja (which was lovely, although I had a little MC-related cry about halfway through) and in true barren, what-do-you-do stylee, we did do the sechsing pre-dinner last night. It is just as well, because post-Rioja we were both fairly sleepy.

Now off to start a grey day. Here's the Cod of Comfort back, norf. I have been cuddling it for weeks, so it may be a little smelly.

Oh and I am still waking the night and not getting back to sleep. But I have womble grumples as well, so droidal invasion expected in the next few days. Btw post-MC cycles are disconcertingly different...

Different how, limoncello?

I'm sorry about the crying I wish all this pregnancy loss grief would fuck the fuck off.

<ceremonially passes the Cod of Comfort to jeffers>

Oh hairy balls, droid cramps have arrived. Gallons of blood by tomorrow no doubt. I've also got a sore throat, fuckity fuck

The Cod of Comfort needs to breed, quickly (quicker than us, anyway!), so there is enough to go around. Sorry that so many of us are having shitty times. I'm on day 16. Post ov, pre-menkulling. Might have one last swi for luck today.

I'm off to an open day at Create later. I feel fairly relaxed about it at the moment, but it will no doubt make IVF seem real again. <Digs large hole for burying head in sand later>

Different as in longer, I am 26/27 day girl, who can tell an ovulation a mile off. And now it has been 30 days since MC and I think I had an egg sometime between 14 and 10 days ago. But I am not sure.

Don't you dare to come and bother rasberry, stupid Droid.

Nobelwitch I am sure we can share the Cod, she's rather large. Good luck at Create today. I am scared for you. But it won't involve downregging, so that has to be good. Also, plenty of sand for burying heads round here!

thanks for warning off the Droid lemon, somehow doesnt feel like it's listening to you though

What's a 'woo' thread?

The whore has arrived. Oh well, at least I know I'm a true barren if nothing else having done it at all the right times this month and still nothing. bastard thing.

Our last theme was woo. Crystals and solstice and hippy shit. And it was a thread of doom with everyone failing to win a baybee and some of us losing them or otherwise going through fertility treatment related crap.

Apparently the previous time a woo theme was tried the same thing happened. So now we have sworn a dreadful vow and signed in droid blood that NGCECOAWT and we will never have another one.

NGCE what now?

And hurrah for non-woo. It's all bollocks. A friend of mine is into reiki and animal communication and I have to bite my tongue so hard not to say "NONSENSE" whenever she mentions it.

No Good Can Come From A Woo Thread.

I'm on the sofa, still in my dressing gown, with a mug of real coffee and a snoring cat on my lap.

Droid seems lighter than normal this cycle. Today is Day 4 and it seems to have buggered off. i usually get 6 days but I'm not going to complain, praps all that spotting earlier in my cycle has played additional havoc.

No Good Can Come OF A Woo Thread, not "from"

Ahhh woo stuff, I can't buy it myself, I'm too sceptical but it does amaze me that sometimes even people who I think of as quite intelligent are into all that stuff.

And what on this earth is 'animal communication'??!!

I've just fallen out with MATV. We were supposed to go out bike riding with friends but he's just called time on that, I hate letting people down and he always does this. I am very cross but when I get angry he tell me I sound like his mother which makes me more mad because his mum is an unhinged mental case most of the time because she believes everything she reads in the Daily Mail. Not a happy bunny.

It's making up nonsense and pretending you're mindreading someone's beloved pooch, raspberry. Except they believe it.

Sorry about the row. It's very peaceful here because HOTB isn't here.

Blimey. I reckon I could guess what most dogs are thinking..... food, balls, chase stuff, food, sleeps and cuddles. Sorted. Reckon I could earn a living from it?

MATV is actually a little bit forgiven. I just had a huge meltdown about Droid arriving and for once he actually had a nice conversation about it and pointed out about it not being a race, im 29 so plenty of time, all quite cliche stuff but he meant it.....and now he is taking me into town to buy me a present. Trouble is I now look like shit from crying and my eyes are all puffed up so hoping I don't bump into anyone.

I just fell in the river. Literally, and can I please inform you that river swimming does not come recommended in October. And I cried. Then I went home, got changed and went for a run, so now I feel good about myself again.

at droid not listening to me! I would be quite shit at animal communication when I can't even make my, or rasberry's droid behave. Mine is still not here. I thought of tempting it out with some out-of-date piss-sticks, but I seem to have mislaid them (or thrown them out?!?) in the post-diff excitement. Anyway, I have sternly told myself I can't piss on anything until 5 weeks post-MC, which would be next Thursday. So I can stop menkulling now and get pissed tonight.

Well done to MATV for being good to you tonight, even if he's a moron to other cyclists. Is it starting to rain where you are as well? The droid and MATV's reluctance would be enough to keep me home and dry [haha, bitter laugh]

How on earth did you manage that, lem? I am impressed you went out for a run after. And unimpressed with life for failing to lay off you for five minutes.

rasper, AMNH is just the same about that sort of thing and it really really riles me, as then I'm tarred with the brush of his shitness. I sympathise.

Lem did you fall in while running?

<quietly sniggers in a supportive way>

Good effort on getting back out there though. I fell/slid down the river bank on my run. Not elegant. Made worse by catching my little finger on some root/solid mud stuff. And now my washing machine appears to have given up with 3 lots of damp running kit in it. That'll get pretty stinky if I can't jimmy it open...

Am now off to be v productive today, with food shopping and hoovering and general midden house cleaning shizzle. Expect me back within the hour...

No, I was in a boat, hags. A very narrow rowing type one. I hadn't ousted myself as a rower before (it makes me much more recognisable). It was grim

How did you fall in??? Did you take the blades off before you got out, like the mens 8 at college? (cue much hilarity at breakfast when they all came in sopping wet). I used to row, miss it and am trying to get back into it.

It was a single scull, and it happened when I fluffed the pushing off . I literally didn't do a single stroke. I have been learning to scull the last few weeks, I used to row loads, but always in 8s or 4s, so the two blades and the narrowness of the boat took a little getting used to.

I very nearly got swept down a weir the first time I went out in a single scull

I like that, I just never sculled outside the summer months before (because winter was for training really hard to win races in spring) and now I know also because the river is not a good place to be in after about September.

Top tip - don't fall in

<helpful>

Commiserations. I rowed a little at uni, but I never really got comfortable on those damn boats which were approximately only 1mm wider than my arse cheeks. Not that I admitted it at the time. It just wasn't the "challenge" I was looking for....

It's alright. I was just so cold and damp that I had to go and get changed. And then I still needed exercise. But hey, now I am a little confused by the appearance of pinkish blood. I suppose that is the droidal messengers this month. Usually they're brown, but I can take pink. We went to bed and to comfort me, so it might also have been the over vigorousness of that which lead to bleeding... Womble not happy though. Nor it the head (achy due to last night's wine and too little water post-run).

Oh dear, falling in rivers sounds hilarious horrible. Hope you're all warm and dry now!

Fecking droid is running at speed today, it makes no sense and is a big mess (mind you no deluding myself I'm diffed this way). Although I'd rather have three days of flooding than a fortnight of drizzle, IYSWIM. <fingers crossed I have a normal length droid this time>

TMI isn't an issue on this thread, right? Sorry, I'm used to posting in the TSA threads over on adult fiction, where we're obscenely graphic about everything used to oversharing. Oh! And now I'm in TWO quiches, how exciting!

I've not got an ishoo with sharing draf so carry on

I ought to go for a run really, although my right calf is really sore. Genuine reason not to go, or feeble excuse? I ought to attempt to seduce Husband as well, but am a bit miffed that he's not made any moves yesterday or today and don't know if I could be arsed, even if I do need to, to be in with a chance of a win this month.

Go on, just do a short one winkly. And thanks for sharing the exact speed of bleeding, draff. IMO there is no such thing as oversharing, providing you don't start talking about pure lurve or baby dust

Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine

<strops>
<goes to fetch trainers>

Shall I scatter some pure lurve dust on your calf winkly?

<stirs cauldron and drags fred back to feem>

Okay, I can do that. I shall only mention baby dust in the context of ground-up babymince to add to the cauldron.

I went and searched out the pure lurve thread just for shits and giggles. I LOVED your responses, it was hilarious

Erm sinky your lurve dust suddenly looks like massive fucking hailstones

What can I say? There's a whole lotta pure lurve blowing around.

Have just read back on fred and seen the merengue chatter

<snortle>

The merengue chat actually made me wretch - does that mean I am diffed? Or just a sensitive soul? (Or did I contract something horrible in the river?)

I am happily stirring a cauldron full of pure hate to throw over the evil SIL who I might see tomorrow at SB's gran's birthday maybe I can borrow some dust, because it seems apt. I shall kill her and/or leave the room if she says anything resembling her usual insensitive self tomorrow.

Go on. Plan to make a scene. I love planning my sparkling comeback which never actually gets said

Maybe I should wear my witches hat and plan wittiness. Sadly, as I am getting PMTty I'll probably just cry. So that would be great. SB hasn't mentioned the MC or the bitch's behaviour to his parents, so they won't understand if I am more hysterical than usual. Oh well.

Aw driz perhaps she'll contract the norovirus overnight & not come?

Huh. Broke fred. Norovirus spell too mean?

drizz good effort on getting out on the water (in fact in it) in October.

Draf I cannot believe some of the stuff I have overshared on here. Knock yourself out.

I am staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarving. KFZK is in the kitchen making home made chish and fips. Mmmmm. We were out all afternoon at the Create Open Day. We have booked a consultation for December, with a view to starting in Jan/Feb. KFZK was a bit cynical about then (he's cynical about everything) but I quite liked them. They said what I wanted to hear anyway - no downregging, light drugs.

I skipped my run today. I'm not convinced that the knee I banjaxed last weekend is strong enough to run on yet. But I might test it on a short run tomorrrow. I'm never going to lose weight without some cardio.

Arrgh, I feel sick again. Ridiculous. My innards can just fuck right off.

I'm feeling very proud of myself today - I did not cry last night. My very dear friend was telling me all about her 20 week scan and how excited her husband is, all lovey dovey "look what we made" etc. I was speechless that she'd tell me that, but as I say no tears. I'm wondering if I'm a bit dead inside actually.

Not dead inside draff, just the necessary to survive. At my best, I can listen and respond to stuff like that. I can coo over babies. Inside I know it should hurt, and it does, but you can examine that hurt and not really let it touch you at that point.

Does that make any sense? What my moods are proper crazy, I get quite pronounced derealisation, when I feel I'm observing life and myself rather than actively participating. I means i can cope with stressful situations at work, and I think, cope with stressfull baby situations.

Anyway, it's too early and I've not had my morning tea yet.

And. Finally. "look what we made"? No one would have blamed you for vomiting there and then. On the scan photo if at all possible.

graf I think when you try as long as any of the BESH have to win a baybee, there's a certain amount of numbing goes on. There's only so many times your heart can break before you build yourself a protective wall. I didn't realise how much it was affecting us both til I finally got diffed.

I iz enjoying your stories of antics like falling into water exciting weekend.

We had a scary day yesterday. We'd taken the camper to MSB's Nan's. driving back she overheated (camper, not the Nan) so we stopped to let her cool. I went for a wee and was spotting The bloody camper continued to overheat so we were stuck an hour from home! My wonderful sister collected me while MSB waited for the AA (thank goodness we're covered by the bank account). Anyways, we all got back ok. OOH doc diagnosed yet another UTI and started me on antibiotics and the spotting has stopped. Think they will move my scan forward from Wednesday though. Camper has not faired so well - looks like she needs a new head gasket! Scary day but put the other side now

Evil you aren't dead inside, I'm with Witch on this one. And you dealt with it very respectfully, I probably would have been speechless to. Or slapped her

faith horrible day for you! Glad you are ok. Do you think you might have a scan tomorrow then?

Hope Granny's birthday goes ok today lemon with your wonderfully insensitive bitch SIL!

I am going to have another lazy day I think, bit of washing/cleaning and shopping. Droid is hurting a bit but is not horrendous, just heavy and bloated. I've managed to drink my whole tea/coffee allowance for the day before 1030 a.m. Just to wake up after drinking wine last night. Bad raspberry -slaps wrists-

Thanks guys. A numb sort of detachment is exactly right. The thing is, her H saying about how lovely and amazing it is is perfectly reasonable and understandable, but I really didn't need to know.

Sounds like an eventful day, faith! Glad you're okay and it's something simple to deal with.

Faif sorry to hear about your shitty day. I saw the PESH thread on active convos so had a read. Sounds like you're coping admirably but have the Cod of Comfort just to be sure

Driz I had to kayak last year as part of challenge weekend at work, I could only get the damn thing to go round & round in a circle. Then I fell in. Brilliant.

I don't really get too bothered by other people's babies / diffment anouncements, especilally not friends. But I did have a complete overreaction to Fearne Cotton being pregnant. I was furious. Unreasonable? I don't know but it irritated me beyone belief. I know what you mean though about 'dead inside' - I think that's why I'm all over the place at the moment, because I haven't allowed myself to believe that we would even get to the having IVF stage.

*especially even. Fat fingers.

Thanks all! Yes I think EPAU will ring me and get me in for a scan. Regardless it's my scan date Wednesday so not long now either way! It's all settled down now so I'm fairly confident the antibiotics are doing their job.

Eurgh sleb baybee wins make me want to puke. That one from Atomic Kitten, Jenny Frost is diffed with twins. I got annoyed when I heard that. RL announcements vary depending on the person and how they announce them. One friend texted saying DC1 has just learnt to say baby, which is good because DC2 is due in November <with vomit everywhere> We had been TTC 5 months when she announced her first diffment

I dislike canoes. I tried to have a go in the sea and the tide swept one over my foot. Mega ouchy graze. Then I tried again and capsized in a lake in September. No luff for canoes here.