IVF/ICSI/FET - any more for any more... MORE!

(253 Posts)
jumpingjackhash Mon 23-Jul-12 17:16:41

A thread for anyone going through fertility treatment, about to start or with a success story to share. Welcome one and all!

So our last IVF/ICSI/FET support, wallow, celebratory and whatever else thread got full, so let's pick up where we left off!

Carebear, great news on your EC on Sat!

I've got over my strop now blush and have re-rearranged my work schedule so all set once they confirm the date tomorrow!

<desperately hopes the thread regulars finds this>

CareBear1 Mon 23-Jul-12 17:22:06

Hi Jumping, thanks for setting up new thread. smile

jumpingjackhash Tue 24-Jul-12 10:33:17


I'm now booked in for EC on Thursday, so injecting the Ovitrelle tonight, then tomorrow will be drug-free (for the first time in a month!). Have started to get nervous again about the call on Day 1 after collection - rather than the collection itself. Although I am anxious about DH's contribution - I hope that's OK too! Sheesh, you can drive yourself crazy worrying about all the little parts of the process!

CareBear1 Tue 24-Jul-12 19:29:03

Never a truer phrase said Jumping! So easy to keep going over the 'what-ifs'. Great to have a date booked in, not long to go! Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Where do you stand on diet coke? Finding my last vice hard to stop.

KnackeredCow Tue 24-Jul-12 21:09:43

A shiny new thread! grin

Great news Jumping - hope it goes swimmingly on Thursday. Try not to worry to much about your DH. On our first cycle, my DH's sample didn't prepare as it should and they simply asked him to do another. Mind you because they said it clumped DH got all precious about it. Think it was hurt pride! He insisted on speaking to the embryologist before he could be assured all was OK. He made such a fuss I cringed a lot.

Care. There's 33mg of caffeine in a can of Coke, and you're allowed to have up to 200mg a day (two cups of tea / coffee) so you'll be fine. Tbh I didn't cut down until after I got pg, since then I've gone off coffee so am down to 1 - 2 cups of tea and a can of Diet Coke a day. The Coke, bizarrely, soothes the nausea!

CookieRookie Tue 24-Jul-12 21:38:02

Hi Jumping, CareBear, KC <<waves>> smile

(Thanks KC for pointing me in this direction) I hope it's okay for me to join in.

As KC already knows from my DET or SET? thread I'm due to start my first cycle of IVF in September so this is all very new to me. Ive lost both tubes following ectopic pgs in the last three years and had one cp also in that time. I'm 34 with secondary infertility and have a dd of 12 (different partner)

Excited and really scared at the same time. We had given up hope of having more children because we just didn't have the money for IVF but a few weeks ago a very kind Aunt offered to pay for us to try and so we've kind of been launched into all this rather hurriedly.

I'm a bit lost with all the abbreviations. So far I know DET, SET, FET, SIS, SA and that's it. If you can think of any more I'll be using regularly it would be a great help and thank you in advance.

KnackeredCow Tue 24-Jul-12 21:55:04

Welcome Cookie!

Great to see you over here. Sorry to hear about your ectopic pregnancies and the loss of your tubes. That must have been devastating. I have tubal infertility too. I had my left removed because it wasn't functional due to a benign tumour / cyst of the fallopian tube. Although my right tube is healthy, my right ovary is adhered to the floor of my pelvis following peritonitis after a perforated appendix. The good news is that IVF is great for tubal infertility so fingers crossed it will work for you.

Other acronyms are:
EC = egg collection
ET = embryo transfer
FC = fertility clinic
AF = Aunt Flo - period

Can't think of any others at the moment so Care and Jumping are going to have to help me out!

CookieRookie Tue 24-Jul-12 22:09:04

Hi KC, thanks for the acronyms.

How are you doing? You're about 8 weeks now?

KnackeredCow Tue 24-Jul-12 22:13:11

Good thanks Cookie. Yes, I'm 8 weeks tomorrow. Nausea subsiding so hoping that's not a bad sign! Next scan a week on Thursday. Time drags so much between each hurdle... Just hoping everything is continuing as it should.

jumpingjackhash Tue 24-Jul-12 22:48:51

Hi Cookie, welcome to the thread! Sorry about your fertility problems, but great that you have such a generous auntie helping you out! Fingers crossed this works for you!

I think Knackered has covered most of the abbreviations! The rest I think we kind of make up/ work out as we go along!

You're in the right place for support though, these ladies help me stay sane during this whole experience! Any questions about the process, or worries about anything, just ask!

Well, I've just done my Ovitrelle injection (ouch!) so now no more drugs until Thursday morning when the pessaries start (delightful!). Aside from the latent nerves I'm feeling OK, but boobs are getting sore (good sign, right?!).

Good point on the Coke Care, on our first round I gave up caffeine, felt rotten and it didn't work anyway! This time I'm just keeping to 1 coffee and a couple of cups of tea a day - I need it to function! I have a jar of decaf coffee and box of decaf tea bags in readiness for a bfp though! Diet Coke is what I have when I'm craving something sweet though, a small glass keeps me away from chocolate!

CookieRookie Tue 24-Jul-12 22:51:55

I know what you mean. My friend from work is currently 15 weeks pg after recurrent mcs and investigations. I was talking to her today and she's finding it very hard to keep her spirits up and start to enjoy the pregnancy because she has been so devastated in the past. Today she's waiting for the scan next week, next week she'll worry about something else. It's human nature I think.

It's also one of the reasons DH and I decided we were okay with letting go and not trying anymore because we just didn't think we could face any more heartache but hope is a wonderful thing and the human spirit is stronger than we ever imagine and so here we are, ready to face the gauntlet again knowing if we make it we will have the most wonderful reward.

Easier said than done I know but try not to worry about the nausea lessening, it's so different for everyone isn't it, even different in the same woman but subsequent pregnancies.

Wishing you all the best for Thursday week. I'll have everything crossed for you.

CookieRookie Tue 24-Jul-12 23:10:38

Hi Jumping

I really do feel quite lost. Not here but in general about the whole process. I'm only going for SIS on the 1st August so they haven't gone into great detail about the drugs or injections yet. I feel ignorant reading your post because I want to be able to comment but I don't understand enough about the process to be able to just yet. Hopefully I'll get my head around it soon and be able to make a decent contribution to the thread if only to lend and understanding 'ear' (screen) when it's needed. For now though I know that you're going for EC (egg collection - thanks KC) on Thursday. Hoping all goes great for you.

I'm absolutely shattered after a 36hr shift so I'm off to my bed.

Thanks for making me feel so welcome smile

jumpingjackhash Tue 24-Jul-12 23:27:00

It can be a very lonely process Cookie, regardless of Your dp, plus any friends and family who know what you're doing, it's hard for them to really understand how you're feeling physically as well as emotionally. Just remember you're not alone!

Where are you having treatment? Chances are someone else on here (when they find the new thread!) will have experience, or know someone who has experience, of the clinic you're with which can help fill any gaps. Once you get going though it all falls into place - it's actually a pretty quick process once it starts.

CookieRookie Wed 25-Jul-12 12:01:32

I'm in Ireland Jumping, have yet to find a good online resource for here so it's great to have MN.

I used to feel so informed when ttc naturally. I had all the information, OVing, CM checking, temping, LP etc. We were so desperate for so long I had researched every possible thing I could to increase our chances of pg but now with the natural route impossible I feel at a complete loss. I have a whole new chapter of learning to do and it's all a little overwhelming.

Today I'm trying to organise time off work in September. Nightmare. I can't give specific dates I'll need off just yet, it's all very complicated. I live three hours from the clinic so I'm going to need to take a few weeks off unpaid and stay somewhere close to the clinic during the first two weeks of the cycle. Any complications will cause havoc. If all goes well and we go ahead with ET I won't be able to work even then because my job is too physical. My female manager is very supportive because she knows our history but ultimately the decision to allow me all the time I'll need will be up to senior management who I know for sure won't be as understanding.

On a lighter note, I had a good laugh last night at dd's expense (shame on me but I couldn't help it) I asked dd to clean out the car yesterday evening. In the middle of doing it she came into the house and went straight to her room telling me she'd get back to the car in a minute she just needed to use the loo. A few minutes later she came down looking really frightened. I asked her what was wrong and she told me she didn't know how but she thought she was pregnant! After a mini heart attack but remaining composed I asked her why she thought that. She told me she had found a 'pregnancy stick' in my car and was curious and decided to pee on it to see what happened. Two lines came up. I stopped her tell her it was actually an OV stick belonging to a friend (that's another story) and assured her that she wasn't pregnant.

She knows all about the facts of life and thankfully she's quite comfortable talking about those kind of things to me so I said to her "but dd, why would you think you were pregnant when you know how getting pregnant works?" "yes mum but I saw a program on tv called 'I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant' and I thought if it happened to them it could happen to me. My heart sank when I saw the two lines Mum, I got such a fright" I couldn't help but giggle as I hugged her grin

zeebee1 Wed 25-Jul-12 18:51:32

Hi all
Sorry I lost you guys! I was merrily posting on the old thread and it kept getting rejected - DOh! Here I am noww!!
junping how goes it- a nice drug free Wednesday !! Good luck tomorrow. What time is your EC??
care hi how r u doing? R u still on or EC on sat?
knackered glad u r feeling less sick - so much luck for the next stage...
Welcome cookie I'm on true 2ww = 2 week wait to test after My embryo transfer last Monday! I test in 1 week! It's a mental time - in feeling very up and down and looking fOr signs constantly - not sure if I've had them or not! Very hot in the theatre tonight - about to put my even hotter peasant costume on now...
Waves zb

zeebee1 Wed 25-Jul-12 18:53:35

Ps Aside from the 2 embryos we had pit back we only got 1 further embryo to freeze after the EC so we are a bit upset seeing as they'd got 15 eggs from me at EC!

CareBear1 Wed 25-Jul-12 19:08:12

ZB I take my hat off to you carrying on with your performances, not sure I would manage that! I wouldn't worry about your frozen ones - its the fresh ones inside that count at the moment. I don't know about you but I find the whole numbers thing just messes with my head if I think about it too much!

Hi Cookie, it can be a bit daunting, and seems much more straightforward when you've already been through it once. I would recommend Zita West's book on Assisted Conception and IVF, I found it to be very helpful.

Jumping, ooh tomorrow, big day for you. Will be thinking of you and looking for your update so let us know how you get on. Fingers crossed they get a good haul.

I've got next scan tomorrow so will find out then if still on for EC this sat.

CareBear1 Wed 25-Jul-12 19:09:33

Oops sorry Knackered, press post too quickly. Hope you're ok and the nausea is not getting too bad in this hot weather! Maybe a magnum ice cream would help with the nausea? I've always thought I'd be a 'pile on the pounds' kind of girl during pregnancy, nice excuse to eat lots!

jumpingjackhash Wed 25-Jul-12 19:13:12

Keep reminding yourself about quality not quantity Zeebee! how's the opera going?

That made me laugh Cookie! Your poor daughter! At least you can rest assured she's NOT up for getting pregnant herself!

3 hours is a fair way from your clinic, I can see how it's tricky re dates and can be expensive too with hotels etc. I'm quite lucky in that our clinic is relatively close to home (30 mins by tube or cab) and just 5 mins in a cab from work, so they don't notice me slipping out for scans or quick blood tests at lunchtime!

My EC is booked in for 10.30, so bar getting stuck in the torch relay chaos I should be home early afternoon, I plan on spending the rest of the day sitting in the garden or lying on the sofa watching crap telly.

jumpingjackhash Wed 25-Jul-12 19:14:17

Cross-posts Care. Hope your scan goes well tomorrow! Thanks for the egg wishes!

KnackeredCow Wed 25-Jul-12 21:28:20

Zeebee I take my hat off to you - don't think I'd cope with having to perform in the evening! Me, I'm in bed on Mumsnet by 9pm each evening grin

Not long till test day - will you cave and test early? And three blasts good enough for transfer / freezing is an excellent result. I only managed two on two cycles and four on my last. You sound completely and utterly normal!

Jumping Hope all goes well tomorrow. Make sure you rest up afterwards! Crap telly sounds bliss.

Cookie your dd's pregnancy scare made me laugh too!

Care hope Saturday goes well for you too! Yes, weather is far too hot for me. I work in a portacabin and I'm not joking it's been about 28 degrees in it all week - and that's not an exaggeration! So unpleasant - although I think it would be for anybody!

Anyway, Here's to a string of BFPs coming this way!

CookieRookie Wed 25-Jul-12 23:28:09

Hi all smile

I had an unexpected call from the clinic today from a lovely lady who told me she was my nurse and she talked me through a lot of what was to come so I feel much better and more informed about the whole process now. I feel like I've gotten my first IVFer badge grin I have a provisional date of the 13th September to start the cycle after a few weeks on the pill.

Wishing you lots of luck for tomorrow Jumping. I'll be thinking of you.

ZB how exciting, wishing you so much luck for a lovely bfp and lots to keep you busy in the (realistically) short (but feels like forever) week you have left to test. I'm a former poas addict and hold high hopes of becoming one again soon!

Care I'm heading into town tomorrow and will have a look for that book, thanks for the heads up. Hope all goes well tomorrow and your all set for EC on Saturday.

KC That heat sounds awful especially in such a small space. Not sure what the weather is like there but here it is almost unbearable at the moment. Cloudy days and very light showers but so so bloody warm and not a hint of a breeze. Maybe you could get a fan for work?

zeebee1 Thu 26-Jul-12 08:28:44

jumping LOADS of luck for the EC today - will be sending good vibes your way... smile

jumpingjackhash Thu 26-Jul-12 15:34:42

Hey ladies! So EC went well, they got 12 eggs (2 more than last time), so we're happy! DH's sample was ok too, 3% motility, the same as last time (this sounds low, but when we started on this whole ttc process it was 0%, so we're getting better on that score too!) grin

However, a day of embarrassments for me - apparently I was talking all kinds of crap when I was coming around, gushing to the staff about how lovely they all were and prattling about all sorts blush I also apparently gave the doc a wink and thumbs-up when she told us we got 12 eggs blush blush.

To add insult to the shame, on the way home I unceremoniously threw-up everywhere and simultaneously did a massive (v loud) fart (blaming the pre-EC pressed) blush blush blush. DH did his best to look sympathetic without looking horrified!

So now I'm plonked on the sofa with the cat, feeling a bit minging but otherwise well.

Glad you've had a call from your clinic Cookie, <pins IVF Stage 1 badge on Cookie>, is this the first time they've taken you through the process? It can sound a bit daunting but it's far better once you start!

Hope everyone is well?!

zeebee1 Thu 26-Jul-12 16:55:52

JUMPING So happy for you! 12 is a great crop - and 2 more than last time - the gonal F must have been working wonders as well - so pleased!
Your story is hilarious! Really made me LOL... Apparently when I came out of EC, as I was being wheeled back to DH waiting in a little cubicle for me, I shot my head up and shouted "Hiyaaaaa" to DH- then put my head back down on the pillow and the nurse looked at DH and just said "she's fine". I have absolutely NO MEMORY of that at all! anyway poor you for puking - envy (envy face for sickness not envy!)
Also my DH was mortified by the err.... "literature" they'd provided in the "sample" room - but we did laugh over the title of it - Viva Beaver or something gross like that!
Anyhoo - hope you are taking it really easy this afternoon -wonderful that your cat is with you too - ours is constantly sweltering in the heat poor thing - he's got too much fur for his own good.

Cookie thanks for your lovely words of encouragement. So glad you have a start date now.

Knackered & Care I am not sure HOW i'm doing the shows either - at least we don't have another one until Tuesday which is a bit of a relief TBH...

care how r u doing today? Any news following your scan?

AFM - nothing to report - sang with the olympic torch today - so that was exciting. Jsut trying too occupy my mind and relax before going back to the office tomorrow.... at my mums now being suitably looked after!

Waves to everyone wink

CareBear1 Thu 26-Jul-12 17:58:59

Jumping thats great news well done! That is a great haul, fingers crossed your dna is getting busy as we type. Hope you sleep ok waiting fo tomorrow's news. Love the embarrassing stories!

ZB singing with torch sounds v.cool what a great memory to have. When is test day again, next week? Hope good things are happening inside!

Cookie, good to start talking to clinic, makes it seem less scary.

AFM scan went well again, taking trigger injection tonight and EC on sat.

zeebee1 Thu 26-Jul-12 18:24:26

Great news care so pleased its on saturday.. So a drug free day tomorrow! What will you do with yourself?? wink

jumpingjackhash Thu 26-Jul-12 18:50:27

I LOVE it Zeebee! glad it's not just me amusing the staff at Guys! How cringeworthy is the reading material! DH gets all flustered when I mention it! I do think it's a little ironic that they provide 'quality' fodder such as Viva Beaver hmm but won't let a wife (ahem) lend a hand! wink

How exciting to sing with the torch! A great story to tell your kid/s! It feels like a good sign!

Great news about your EC Care, let us know how you get on!

CookieRookie Thu 26-Jul-12 20:31:38

Jumping and ZB your stories made me laugh so hard I could barely answer dh when he asked me why I was laughing grin

Delighted the EC went so well jumping. Hope your ladies and your DH's boys are having a wild party as we chat and that you are feeling better soon. Thanks for my badge <<twirls so it can shimmer in the light>>

Dh will be mortified when he has to go through that too. It has to be difficult for the dp's to 'produce' in such a clinical setting knowing someones waiting for the eh...final product blush.

Couldn't get the Zita West book today but have it ordered. Ready for a night in front of the television after a tough day entertaining four children.

Working all weekend so may not be back until Monday. Good luck on Saturday Care, hope it all goes well.

CookieRookie Thu 26-Jul-12 23:38:42

I need to run something by you all.

I started a thread before coming here asking opinions on DET V SET as it was suggested by my doctor at the clinic during our initial consultation that we opt for DET. All the research pointed to SET so I started the thread and most people agreed that on our first cycle SET was probably the way to go. We had decided on SET given our circumstances and providing nothing else arose that would point to DET being the safer option.

Anyway that thread ended but some others have posted on it so I was back on it tonight and it's just reminded me of the conversation I had with the nurse on the phone yesterday.

(C&P from other thread)I asked why we were being recommended for DET before any tests were actually done? Was there something they had gathered from my medical history or current circumstances that meant I was more suitable for DET? Her answer was that that is just their policy. I hadn't even thought about that until now hmm I said I was concerned about the complications of a multiple pregnancy and she said I "wasn't guaranteed twins with DET".

I wasn't querying if I'd be guaranteed twins. Is that an odd answer? I took it as they are the experts and forgot about it but whilst they are a highly recommended clinic I know that is not the recommended policy.

Bloody hell, I'm flapping again. It's nearly midnight and I'm sure you're all tucked up in bed. I'm off to bed too. Goodnight everybody.

KnackeredCow Fri 27-Jul-12 08:09:49

Hi Cookie

I would say you don't really need any tests to decide whether you should go for a single or a double transfer. It should depend on number, quality and how many days old your embryos. And of course how many failed IVF cycles you've had in the past. Even on cycle three my clinic asked me if I was "sure" I wanted both back bacause I did get pregnant on my first cycle and then miscarried, and my two (at time of transfer) blastocysts were such good quality.

Follow this link and look through the slides. Towards the end there's an algorithm for woman under 37 on their first attempt: http://www.oneatatime.org.uk/images/5_Sue_Avery.pdf.

At the end of the day you have to make a decision you're comfortable with. Is the risk of twins acceptable to you? Is the risk of a subsequent cancelled FET due to a failed thaw acceptable? What is your clinic's thaw failure rate like?

Clinics tend to be highly recommended if they get good success rates. I'm dubious about this - they often self select easy patients and automatically follow DET protocols in self interest. The private nature of IVF makes it competitive.

The technology is pretty standard, and I don't for one minute believe that one clinic is doing things very differently from another. If there really was a magic formula to significantly improve chances it would not be long before they were all doing it and it would be Nobel prize stuff!

KnackeredCow Fri 27-Jul-12 08:16:59

Sorry - did link from my phone so you can't click through. If you copy and paste it into your web browser it should work.

KnackeredCow Fri 27-Jul-12 11:11:02

try clicking this instead - page number 23

jumpingjackhash Fri 27-Jul-12 11:13:56

Hi Cookie, I think the general consensus is SET is preferable, if everything suggests there's no reason an embryo shouldn't take. However DET can be recommended if circumstances are not so 'perfect', e.g. the woman is older, there are a couple of embryos that 'look worth a shot'.

I'm being very generalistic and not particularly 'scientific' here, btw! I know that Guys will always prefer SET if the conditions are favourable, but Knackered has a point in that live birth success rates are important for clinic selection, so its inevitable it will play a part at some point.

On our first round the consultant recommended we transfer 2 embies, one was our 'best' one, the other 'second best and worth a go' hmm - we ended-up freezing a third on day 6, which was unexpected!

So, I had a call from the clinic this morning - out of our 12 eggs, 11 were mature enough, all were' ICSI'd and 6 fertilised! We're provisionally booked in for transfer on Sunday morning, depending on how they get on.

Of course, that means we'll be having the SET / DET conversation over the next couple of days too. Christ! I think we'll probably go for DET unless they strongly recommend against it.

KnackeredCow Fri 27-Jul-12 11:38:08

Jumping that's fantastic news! Fingers crossed for you.

Cookie Jumping really makes a good point about embryo quality. When the clinic phoned on the morning of my transfer, one embryo was graded excellent, and the other "good" at that point. It was my third cycle so because of my failure rate, and the fact they thought the "good" one only had about a 30-40% chance of implanting they agreed putting two back was sensible. It so happened that the "good" one really came on in the hours between the morning phone call and transfer (and was re-graded) and that's why we had the discussion again immediately before transfer. However, because of my history, I was happy to accept the risk of twins.

The link I've posted also includes the grading scheme for blastocysts (my clinic uses numbers now, but that's so they can be entered into a database), so I shall convert to letters.

For me:

Cycle 1
eSET of 4Ab - implanted but v. early m/c

4Ab/a - failed thaw

Cycle 2
2 x 2Bb transferred - completely failed (beta was 1 so no attempted implantation - I assume that the blastocysts stopped developing within a day or so of transfer).

Cycle 3
1 x 5Aa and 1 x 4Aa transferred - pregnant with twins

So I am definitely an example of where embryo quality has been the leading predictive factor of success.

The embryologist told me that at my clinic they see a 70% pregnancy rate with the transfer of 1 x Aa blastocyst. It's 30-40% with a blastocyst graded Bb. Having two transferred does increase your chance of pregnancy, but it does NOT double. It increases it by about 10%. However the probability of twins is significantly increased. However, this is very dependent on the quality of the blastocysts. Your far more likely to end up with twins with the transfer of 2 x Aa blastocysts than with 1 x Aa and 1 x Bb.

jumpingjackhash Fri 27-Jul-12 11:42:49

I'm ashamed to say I've never really grasped the grading - but I don't think Guys have explained it to me particularly well either! With our first icsi we were shown images of our 5 embies on day 3 - one was described as 'beautiful and the best', one 'worth a shot' the others 'let's see but don't get your hopes up they'll improve any more'. Scientific, eh?!

This time I'm going to ask more about their grading!

<feels woefully uninformed about this bit>

KnackeredCow Fri 27-Jul-12 12:05:48

I had to ask and really push to get the information. Mine were initially described in the sort of terms yours were. The link I've attached to the presentation is really informative.

They assume no knowledge. It was only when I told them I had a degree in Zoology and as part of that had studied some basic embryology (ten years ago, very out of date and I couldn't actually remember much!) at university that they changed the level at which they spoke to me - and the principal embryologist began to deal with me.

CareBear1 Fri 27-Jul-12 19:43:57

That's great news Jumping!

zeebee1 Sat 28-Jul-12 12:10:26

jumping fantastic news - so happy you got so many embies.... Fingers crossed for some more good news tomorrow too...

SET vs DET we've never been undecided there due to my ripe age of almost 40 and that we know 2 lots of friends with IVF twins and we love them & we are so prepared for the hard work that would be ahead of us with 2! Bring it/them on!

Waves to all - nothing much to report - just playing the waiting game & debating if it would be ok to cycle up to see some of the road cycling today...

jumpingjackhash Sat 28-Jul-12 13:23:56

Ladies, how did you feel physically after collection? Aside from feeling a bit 'bruised' down below and some cramping, did you have any tummy ache? I recall last time feeling quite sore and bloated for 2/3 days, but maybe my memory is fading, as now, a few days later I'm still feeling quite bloated and have stomache ache (also not been able to 'go to the loo' since the day before EC, sorry if tmi! I'm putting this down to codeine I was given?). Is this quite normal? Slightly concerned about transfer tomorrow!

zeebee1 Sat 28-Jul-12 13:42:17

hmm jumping I didn't have that much pain after transfer this time, I felt delicate around that area and also my right hand side still felt sort of 'heavy' IUKWIM... But actual tum pain, not really... It might be the old presseries that are making you feel a bit bloaty and also I find that make me quite constipated blush too.... Also I found I was really stressed about ET this time as it just feels less exciting and a bit more disparate this time around... You might just have butterflies about tomorrow? Do you ever do meditation or anything? Sometimes that can help before ET... Get your zita disk out maybe
Hope that helps a bit?

zeebee1 Sat 28-Jul-12 13:43:00

Sorry I meant I didn't have much pain after COllection!

jumpingjackhash Sat 28-Jul-12 14:08:48

Hi Zeebee, thanks - It's a weird feeling, at first I wondered if I'd maybe strained my stomache when I was vomiting, but that would have gone now. I do have a bit of wind still blush so wonder if it's linked to that and the constipation blush. God this makes you feel so attractive and sexy, doesn't it?!

Good idea for the Zita CD, will plug myself into my ipod and try to relax!

You OK? When do you test?

jumpingjackhash Sat 28-Jul-12 15:14:36

OK, think you're right about the pessaries Zeebee, according to Dr Mumsnet and Dr Google (& various other sources) it's likely that the Cyclogest is causing the bloating, cramps (likely to be wind-related) and constipation. Bugger. Off to the supermarket to get some prune juice and lactulose (in case the prune juice doesn't work).

God I hope it works this time!

CareBear1 Sat 28-Jul-12 16:20:11

Hi Jumping, i think that's quite normal - to be sore for a few days. the pessaries make me bloated and give me wind too, though not so bad using front door rather than back door ! Have you tried a hot water bottle on your stomach (only before transfer), or drinking hot water? Wonder how your 6 are getting on - what time do you get the call tomorrow? Defo agree with ZB get Zita on, she'll keep you calm!

Had EC this morning, went fine. Got 8 eggs, which am pleased with - i'd seen 7 on the scans which were all a reasonable size, and we got 9 a year ago with last ivf so that's fine. Wait to hear tomorrow, and relax on the sofa this afternoon!

zeebee1 Sat 28-Jul-12 16:44:13

Care - fab news on your EC... Here's to a good night for them to get jiggy with your DH's little fellas!

jumpingjackhash Sat 28-Jul-12 16:52:28

Brilliant Care! hoping they do the bizzo with your DH's swimmers! Good luck for the call from the clinic tomorrow! How are you feeling now? Hope you have your feet up?!

I've just been out and bought prune juice (to drink warmed-up), cans of prunes and a box of Fybogel! I'm going to see how they go tonight and speak to the doc when we go for ET tomorrow (or if they call to postpone it tomorrow). Really hoping this little lot will help!

My brain is addled at the moment though, i was booked in for a Thai foot massage today and totally forgot - i'm mortified and will call later to pay for my missed appointment blush.

KnackeredCow Sat 28-Jul-12 18:34:02

Jumping Did you have your EC under general or conscious sedation. The reason I ask is was it traumatic, and I'll guess you'll only know that if it was under conscious sedation.

My last one was under conscious sedation, and due to my adhesions and left salpingectomy, my left ovary is really difficult to reach. The Registrar had to get the Consultant to take over after half an hour. I was in a phenomenal amount of pain for a few days afterwards because to manually manipulate and position the ovary so they could access it, I had one of the nurses pushing down on my abodmen with pretty much her full body weight. It was horrific.

Sorry will finish post later - DH grumpy with me for being on MN

KnackeredCow Sat 28-Jul-12 18:59:57

Sorry - had to do something. DH was rightly grumpy although feeling guilty now as I did tell him I was feeling really nauseous and was then spectacularly sick grin. I should imagine that will get me out of doing things when he insists in future.

Anyway, Jumping is it possible you've had quite a traumatic EC any that's causing the pain and discomfort? My EC was pretty horrific to be honest, and I was conscious for the full 50 minutes I was in there. I have never experienced pain like it. And the discomfort afterwards was getting similar to after my laparoscopy.

By the way, I was constipated too, and it took 7 hours before I could wee again after EC because my abdomen was so sore and bruised.

Care Excellent result! Hope you have lots of embryos tomorrow!

jumpingjackhash Sat 28-Jul-12 20:15:09

Ooh you poor thing Knackered! I was knocked out and only in there for about 10 minutes so I don't think it was particularly troublesome. Will ask when we're there tomorrow.

I'm certain it's bad constipation and progesterone bloat, I'm drinking at least 3l of water a day and peeing for TeamGB, but as for anything else, it's been days! <wails>. In the last 4 hours I've had a fybogel, 1/2 can of prunes, cup of warm prune juice, asparagus and a bowl of bran flakes... Nada, nil, not a twinge of a movement. Thoroughly fed up now! [bloated grump emoticon]

Sorry, tmi and rant rolled into 1!

CareBear1 Sat 28-Jul-12 20:51:34

Knackered that sounds horrific. I'm surprised (and reassured) that this didn't affect implantation.

Jumping you poor thing, hope things get moving soon! How about some nail biting olympics? Or a brisk walk? !

I have to admit I'm feeling sad tonight. Not sure if its the meds or just the day. There were a few things that I really over-reacted to during my time at the hospital - the first nurse told DH she was just returning from maternity leave which made me want to punch her and I couldn't bring myself to smile at her for the rest of the day (evil) then a series of people kept saying 'hi' really brightly and wanting to chat about the weather and about people they knew who ivf had worked for and it just made me feel so sad about having to do this and i just wanted to conceive our children in the normal way. Oh dear, i'm in tears now. sorry. I think a good nights sleep is in order. Anyone else feel blue after EC?

jumpingjackhash Sat 28-Jul-12 21:25:41

Oh Care, sorry you're feeling down. How insensitive of a nurse in an acu to say that! People just want to put you at ease or help you to stay positive, they usually don't realise what they're saying can sometimes be the last thing you want to hear. Just ignore.

Some things just don't work out as we'd like or expect, but we just have to deal with it in our own way. You've had a big day today and your hormones will be all over the place. Try to find something frivolous to watch on telly, or go for a soak in the bath with a good book and try to get a good night's sleep. Hope you feel better in the morning.

CareBear1 Sat 28-Jul-12 21:29:52

you're right. thanks Jumping.

KnackeredCow Sat 28-Jul-12 21:29:55

CareBear 'tis very normal to feel blue. It's likely to be the come down from the anaesthetic and pain relief. And it's really just all horribly stressful sad. Sleeping it off is probably a good strategy for today - and tomorrow if you feel the need.

Try not to think too harshly about the nurse re maternity leave. Perhaps she had treatment too?

In the ACU that treated me I had a similar incident with a nurse when I went for third beta at 21 dpo. She looked unfamiliar so I asked if she was new. No was the answer - returning from maternity leave. We got chatting and it turned out she'd applied to work there when she was struggling to conceive. She was in premature ovarian failure. And then she disclosed that a good proportion of the nurses had or were I'm treatment.

When I was scanned at 7 weeks, the nurse who did the ultrasound had twins following treatment a good few years ago.

The problem with infertility is it's such a taboo subject that it's easy to assume everyone else has got pregnant easily and had no complications, but in actual fact the sad truth is there are so many people in the same boat sad

jumpingjackhash Sun 29-Jul-12 10:32:47

That's really interesting about many of the nurses having fertility issues Knackered, i'd not really thought about that before. I never fail to be surprised at the number of couples who have fertility issues though.

How are you today Care?

We had a call from the clinic early this morning, our embies are all doing well so they want to wait until Tuesday for transfer! Was kind of psyched-up for today but delighted with the embryologist's call.

In other news, I can recommend warm prune juice blush!

Geeklette Sun 29-Jul-12 11:10:44

<waves shyly> hello ladies, I've been lurking for a little while, since it was suggested that ICSI might be my only hope of bringing any dc into our lives. It's now been confirmed that this is the journey I have to take so I've been referred and I'm waiting for the first appointment to come through from the fertility hospital.

There's so much to learn, and get my head around. I know you are all further into this than I am, but would you mind if I joined you?

CareBear1 Sun 29-Jul-12 11:46:05

Morning, well am feeling a lot better today. You're right knackered think it was a combination of bit of a come down from the drugs as well as a stressful event. You might be right about the nurses - the ones in the acu are always really nice, and get it right everytime. The EC yesterday was done as part of the normal hospital so there was a bit of a mix of staff, and I don't think they would have said things like 'so is this your first time' when i was just coming round off the drugs if they'd had problems themselves. She got a short 'no' to that question. Anyway am sure it was far more to do with me hating being meddled with than them doing anything wrong!!

Jumping that's great news about going to blastocyst - did they tell you anything else about them? So all of them are still going strong? That's really good news. Also great news about the other, erm, developments. wink

We got the call to say that of the 8 eggs, 6 have fertilised! Same result as last time and really pleased with that. smile Just have to wait for a call tomorrow to say how they're getting on.

Geeklette, sorry you have to join us but you're very welcome! What's your history so far?

zeebee1 Sun 29-Jul-12 11:55:13

Morning all.... care glad you are feeling better - I know exactly how you feel - I felt really p'ed off with everything/everyone the day of EC when I got home. Just a sort of "here we go again" type feeling.... Been trying to keep myself busy during this 2ww - hard not to dwell and worry about it not working etc. we went to watch some of the Olympic cycling yesterday afternoon and immediately bumped into friends of ours and their new baby - happy for them of course, but just felt like we couldn't go anywhere and get away from feeling why isn't it us yet?
jumping yey for some blastos! Did you do a day 5 transfer last time around? Glad the prune juice is working wink
geeklette good morning and welcome to our friendly thread... Do ask any questions as some of us on here are unfortunately quite experienced!

jumpingjackhash Sun 29-Jul-12 14:38:48

Good news Care!

Keep sane Zeebee! The Olympics are certainly a good distraction, do you have tickets for anything? We couldn't get any so it's v galling to see so many empty seats there! Grrr!

Welcome Geeklette <waves>. Sorry you're in the same position but once you start, you'll see a light at the end of the tunnel! Fire away with any questions. Do you have a date for your first appointment yet? Whereabouts are you having treatment?

jumpingjackhash Sun 29-Jul-12 14:40:17

Oh, we had a 3-day transfer last time, then our FET was using a 5-day blasto. Feeling optimistic <kicks self for saying that>

Geeklette Sun 29-Jul-12 19:19:17

Thank you for the warm welcome smile

care I am 35, DP is 58. We have been TTC for 11.5 years now, most of which was done the relaxed, don't think about it way. We moved house last year and decided it was a good time to up the ante so have been keeping a very careful eye on cycles etc since January. In April, given how long in total we had been trying, we thought it best to get checked out at the docs and found that DP's diabetes had given his swimmers a bit of a bashing. After a couple of appointments with the consultant, and a second SA to confirm the findings of the first, ICSI is what he is recommending.

zeebee thank you, I'm still a little overwhelmed by it all but I am sure as my appointment gets closer I will have loads to ask of you all! At the moment, my main question is 'what should I be asking now, right at the outset?'

jumping No date as yet, I've seen the consultant twice and have now been formally referred to the Priory in Birmingham. I should get a date through the post in the next couple of weeks.

It'll take me a little while to catch up with where you are all at in the scheme of things, but good luck with all of the forthcoming appointments and transfers smile

jumpingjackhash Sun 29-Jul-12 19:41:54

Hi Geeklette, wow, 11.5 years, you guys have stamina and patience! wink. Once the process starts it's pretty quick, depending on your drug protocol it's around 9 weeks from when you start de-regging (sniffing nafarelin to shut down your natural hormones).

We're also doing icsi due to DH's dodgy swimmers (there's not many of them and those that are there are pretty lazy and oddly formed). It's kind of reassuring, as male infertility is a bit easier to work with!

zeebee1 Mon 30-Jul-12 10:35:29

Morning all
geeklette Jumping is right - your stamina and courage is amazing! We too have done ICSI this time round as DH's motility (speed they swim) was only 40% so the hospital wanted us to do that process. we still managed to get 3 good day 5 blastos from that so we are really pleased... I wish you good luck
and positive energy... The thing i was most worried about was the self injecting of gonal F, but TBH that is easy as pie once you get into the swing of it!
jumping so glad re your ET tomorrow - sounds great. Nope, we got NO tickets in the first round, but I've managed to get £20 tickets for the paralympics athletics final, and suddenly DH was offered 2 tickets from someone who cant go for the 200 metres final normal olympics, so we are v lucky re that!
AFM - nothing much to report - boobs were swollen and sore Fri and Sat then yesterday went back to normal - so I worried all day yesterday it hadn't worked, and as a result stayed in the house all day and moped about... was V difficult to get up and come to work today (surrounded by 2 PG women at the mo) but i'm here....
care any news on your embies overnight?? When is your ET likely to be?

jumpingjackhash Mon 30-Jul-12 12:36:48

Hey there.

Don't let your boobs get you down Zeebee! You could obsess about every little thing and always find something to worry about. I'm really jealous of your Olympic tickets! DH has bagged plum tickets to the triathlon (right next to the finish line!) but I've had to turn one down as I just can't get more time off work with all these clinic appointments.

Hope you're doing OK Care, when is your 9wk scan Knackered?

CareBear1 Mon 30-Jul-12 12:54:00

Hi there, all fine with my 6 this am. 4 at 4 cell and 2 at 2.

Out and about so cant post very easily, but big waves. Jumping best of luck for tomorrow.

CareBear1 Mon 30-Jul-12 20:55:13

Jumping are you having 1 put back or 2? I keep changing my mind!

jumpingjackhash Mon 30-Jul-12 21:13:14

Hi Care, we're probably going for 2, plus whrn she called on Sunday the embryologist said 'I guess you're having 2 transferred?' which kind of reassured and helped us decide. It will take a stong argument to persuade us to do just 1 now I think. Kind of clinging to the fact 2 doesn't always mean twins! Eek!

When are you going for yours?

CareBear1 Mon 30-Jul-12 22:41:40

Jumping best of luck for tomorrow. We're expecting a call tomorrow to say whether tomorrow or thurs.

bugsylugs Tue 31-Jul-12 07:53:41

Jumping good luck for today
Care go embies go waggle dancing and all

KnackeredCow Tue 31-Jul-12 08:02:53

Jumping Best of luck for today! Hope all goes smoothly

Care fingers crossed for you too!

AFM - had 9 week scan yesterday at 8+5. Still two little beans in there measuring as they should and two clear heartbeats. I heard those magic words "Congratulations! You are now discharged" grin

Booked in with midwife and waiting for date for 12 week scan. Feels very surreal.

KnackeredCow Tue 31-Jul-12 08:03:40

Meant to say a big welcome to Geeklette!

zeebee1 Tue 31-Jul-12 10:18:40

knackered SO HAPPY FOR YOU!! WOW! are you feeling massive relief? Have you got something special planned to celebrate in a shhhh quiet way??

Care good luck with the call today

jumping good luck with ET today

bugsy! how are you? What is the latest from you?

AFM - nothing to report - we test tomorrow (arghghghghghgh) very nervous.

Geeklette Tue 31-Jul-12 12:54:52

jumping and zeebee I'm not so sure about the stamina, courage and patience - if I'd been told at the outset how long things would take I'd probably have thrown in the towel long ago! Sometimes it's best that we can't see the future.

zeebee Good luck for your test tomorrow! I'm also a bit concered about injecting myself, I've been told both of the drugs I will need to take will be injections. What form do the injections take? Are they in pre-loaded pens or are we talking proper full-blown syringes?

care Good luck with your call, and with deciding between 1 or 2!

jumping Is it today you are due your transfer? Best of luck!

knackered congratulations! That is fab news, you must be so pleased.

I'm sorry to read that so many of you also have male factor. When it was diagnosed, did they stop considering anything else, or did they continue to investigate potential alternative issues? I'm a bit concerned that my consultant has leapt on the 'low morph low motility explains everything' wagon, but DP has two (now adult) dcs, and w had a good three or four years before the diabetes set in.

More noobie questions I'm afraid: how did they decide whether to down-reg via inhalation or injection? I've already been told (without even being seen by the Priory) that it will be injection.

Also, do you honestly get a choice of 1 or 2 embryos to transfer on your first go? My consultant has told me it will categorically be one, no arguments, in a bid to reduce multiple births. Looking at the stats for the Priory for 2010 though, the majority of transfers for my age bracket were DET. With only getting two shots on the NHS I'm desperate to make them both count.

Sorry for the long post and lots of questions!

zeebee1 Tue 31-Jul-12 13:38:25

Hi geeklette
The Gonal F pens are preloaded and really easy - small needles - you literally don't feel it going in (well almost) wink

I've heard that some clinics make their pateints inject the bulserin too - i've had a nasal spray for that so i've been quite lucky (altho the taste is YUCK in the back of your mouth so you won't get that at least)

We were allowed to do DET becasue of my age (almost 40) and we don't have any other kids. I think each clinic has its own policy - if you really wanted a DET rather than SET then argue with them - it's your life after all - your decision ultimately!

jumpingjackhash Tue 31-Jul-12 14:30:33

Hey all,

CONGRATS to Knackered! Must be wonderful to hear that discharge statement!! Si, so glad the beans are doing well!

Hope your test tomorrow is that bfp Zeebee! You never know, you might be joining Knackered with a double-act!

How are you doing Care? Any update on the ET?

Geeklette, hey there, don't worry about the injections, they're really not as bad as they sound. I was terrified of that part at first (swiftly followed by the thought of EC under a general anaesthetic), but it's nowhere near as bad as I thought (either part!). I'm not sure about injecting to down-reg, I've only ever sniffed (nafarelin for the ICSIs and buserelin for the FET).

It's an interesting point you raise about doctors investigating / not investigating beyond male factor. After we were diagnosed with this problem I had various blood tests and an internal scan to rule out anything major, then after a mc following the first ICSI and then a neg from the FET I had a hysteroscopy to investigate further, but I think that was more to double-check and rule anything out rather than 'find a cause'. IME it requires more things to 'go wrong' or 'not go right' for them to investigate other problems with the woman beyond hormone tests at key stages of your cycle. Having said that, my cycle has always been the kind you could set your watch by, so I've not really presented with any issues... so far.

AFM, we had the transfer earlier - they only put one back, so he's flying solo. They said there were 2 blastos which were of really good quality (4BB - got them to explain it all this time!) and ready for transfer, so 'on paper' they had no reason to believe both wouldn't implant and they felt more comfortable with just 1 going back. Not quite what we were expecting. I think DH feels quite cheated hmm!

The other is being frozen, with the other 4 'just a step behind' being blasto enough to freeze, so we're hoping they'll be OK to be frozen tomorrow.

Now the 2WW begins again and I'm trying to stay relaxed and positive, willing 'little-un' to settle in and stick around! Will be plugging myself into the Zita CD later!

zeebee1 Tue 31-Jul-12 15:53:09

Great news jumping so glad it went smoothly - sounds like you have a very good quality one there! Take it easy tonight - hope you are at home with feet up enjoying some sh*t daytime TV. Am just home from work and about to psyc up for a show tonight - we have 3 more this week then thats the end of the run. Phew. Feeling molto apprehensivo re tomoz test - keeping thinking I can feel something on my right hand side - little possibly the embies sticking- just hope to god I'm right.....

bugsylugs Tue 31-Jul-12 16:56:10

Geek let check out NICE guidelines and if you are being funded check out your PCTs policy they may stipulate only 1. If not I think over 35 you can insist on 2

bugsylugs Tue 31-Jul-12 16:57:14

Zeebee best of luck for tomorrow
Jumping great that you are on the bench with a good one

KnackeredCow Tue 31-Jul-12 19:20:01

Geeklette are you doing the antagonist protocol rather than the long protocol?

I did the antagonist, and with that you phone on the first day of your period and book in for your first scan, which is on day 2. If all is well stimulation begins on day 3. I used Gonal F for this. On day 7 of my cycle (day 5 of stimulation) I added in the antagonist Cetrotide to down-reg. This stops you ovulating. Cetrotide is given by injection and is more fiddly than Gonal F, but OK when you get the hang of it. I carried on with both daily and was scanned on day 10 and day 12. On day 12 I was ready so was told to trigger that night. So I only had 6 days when I had to take two injections.

Most ladies here are on the long protocol and an agonist (normally buserelin) is used to down reg (usually by sniffing) for a couple of weeks before starting stimulation.

You are less likely to get the choice between SET and DET if you are PCT funded. However, they should also take into account the number, age and quality of embryos when guiding you in your decision. However, if you have one very good blastocyst your PCT may refuse to fund any more going back. I had a DET, but it was my third fresh IVF after two failures AND I'd had a failed thaw in my history and I was self-funding by that point.

Zeebee. Wishing you loads of luck for tomorrow! I take my hat off to you that you haven't caved and tested at home. I am in awe!

Jumping what a fabulous result! You must be pleased. Here's to a stress free 2ww!

AFM - I really am thrilled. Never thought I'd get this far. Still cautious though...

KnackeredCow Tue 31-Jul-12 19:21:50

Meant to add have you heard from the clinic yet CareBear?

CareBear1 Tue 31-Jul-12 19:38:21

ZB good luck for tomorrow really hope its good news. Jumping well done, emby on board. Knackered so chuffed for you that all is ok. Gosh its all go on here isnt it. Geeklette am also tormented by 1 vs 2. Clinic have agreed its our final decision. This is 2nd fresh round. Had 1 put back 1st time, 2 during FET round. But this is first cycle with immune treatment. 34 been ttc 5 yrs. What do you think? Call this am was 3 at 8 cell, 1 at 6 and 1 halfway between 6 and 8, so waited for blasto stage though they will check again tomorrow.

zeebee1 Wed 01-Aug-12 06:31:45

Morning guys...
So with trepidation DH and I went to the bathrOom this morning at 6am and did the test - its a BFP!

KnackeredCow Wed 01-Aug-12 06:34:36

Oh Zeebee I am so pleased for you gringringringrin


Will you have a beta done at you clinic too?

zeebee1 Wed 01-Aug-12 06:34:45

Sorry in my excitement there I accidentally pressed post message!!
Anyway it's worked.. Just pray it stays this time!
We are so happy - but shhhh on the quiet. Not going to be telling all the family like before - going to wait until later down the line.
Anyway happy Wednesday's to you all.
We might be naming this one after the opera it's already been in!

zeebee1 Wed 01-Aug-12 06:37:16

Or we name it after the first Brit that wins a gold medal!!

jumpingjackhash Wed 01-Aug-12 07:14:59

Oh Zeebee! WONDERFUL news! So pleased for you and your DH! [non-alcoholic wine ] to a straight-forward pregnancy! smile smile smile

CareBear1 Wed 01-Aug-12 07:57:09

ZB woo hoo!!!!! So pleased for you. Congratulations. Hope you have an uneventful 8 months.

Geeklette Wed 01-Aug-12 09:40:26

zeebee congratulations! Hoping this one is a nice sticky one for you, and a smooth and uneventful remainder of your pregnancy. Which opera was it?

jumping I'm glad your transfer went well, so pleased the quality was good enough to go solo. Good luck for the freezing!

bugsy thank you, I will do that. I seem to remember reading that my PCT would fund for no more than 2 to be put back per cycle, and I will be 36 by the time the first cycle comes round. I will read more smile

knackered How are you feeling? Is it sinking in that you are discharged yet? I'm not sure which protocol I will be on just yet - the consultant mentioned 4 weeks in total of injections, starting with 1, then 2 per day either from day 12 or for the last 12 days (damn my memory!). I should know more after my first appointment at the Priory.

care how are the embies/blastos doing today? Are you any nearer deciding between 1 or 2?

Thank you all for the advice about the injections, I was hoping it was going to be nice and easy so you've put my mind at ease. DP is really going to enjoy watching me do that grin

I'm off work today to get bloods done and book a scan date. Will probably spend the rest of the time reading everything I can find about ICSI/The Priory for the second, third, fourth time !

jumpingjackhash Wed 01-Aug-12 12:33:30

One thing I've found invaluable during this whole process Geeklette is a notebook! I have a little one just for this, where I obsessively write every phone number, name, appointment, instruction, watch-out, timing and result. I also use it to jot down questions as they pop into my head so I don't forget to ask.

It sounds stupid, but my memory is pretty crap at the best of times and with all the information fired at you through this it really does help to make notes!

zeebee1 Wed 01-Aug-12 14:36:24

Hi all
Thanks so much for your good wishes - yes i too hope it's a sticky one or two this time around!
Have got the day off work today (and NO show tonight!) and been over to my best mates house and seen her and her 2 kids and now at my mums - via the garden centre to pick up some nice plants for our garden - feel wiped out now (nothing of course to do with our 5.30am start this morning confused)
jumping like your notebook idea A LOT - wish i'd thought of that back last year when we started this process... i tend to scribble things down on the baks of envelopes, receipts etc - not great when you are needing to look back at things to check!
care great re getting to blasto stage...
geek i'm doing Eugene Onegin... lots of cozzie changes and general mayhem on stage - but it shows that carrying on with normal life post transfer (and doing some russian dancing!) does not hinder a BFP!

jumpingjackhash Wed 01-Aug-12 16:41:47

I love Eugene Onegin - I saw it in St Petersburg years ago! Can you see yourself with a little Eugene ZB? Or with the golds coming in today, perhaps a little Wiggo, Helen or Hannah?!

Had a call from the clinic earlier - only one of our other 4 blastos was ripe for freezing, so we have 2 in there now. The other 3 are 'not viable' so I guess will be used for research. Poor little fellas.

CookieRookie Wed 01-Aug-12 22:14:47

Hi all. I've a hectic few days. Was able to keep up to date on the phone but couldn't post.

ZB HUGE congratulations! That's fantastic news.

jumping Great news. Hope the tww flies by and we can celebrate another fabulous bfp

Care Good luck for the phonecall tomorrow, looking great so far.

knackered Brilliant, brilliant news re the scan, delighted for you. Here's to a happy, healthy 8 months.

Hi geek <<waves>> I'm only at the very beginning too. So much learning to do!

AFM I'm feeling absolutely deflated today. We went for SIS and SA today. Scan showed only one possible follicle on each ovary which was a bad enough start but the SA came back quite poor too. DH has a low count (20million and I only want one!) but still low by all accounts and the motility is only 45% and they say minimum acceptable is 50%. It's also 'clumping' apparently which means the swimmers are sticking together so a really, really shit day to say the least. We talked the whole journey home about possibly throwing in the towel.

The clinic will probably advise against IVF because of my low reserve and even if they said we could go ahead with ICSI I doubt we could get the money to do it.

I just don't know to think so will sleep on it tonight and we'll discuss it again tomorrow. I'm off to active convos to lose myself in something else for a while.

Have a good night all, chat tomorrow smile

Fay30 Thu 02-Aug-12 04:29:50

We had said, that we would try for the IUI first, but we have made some IVF inquiries, and we feel really quite upbeat about it.
There are several hospitals in our city that do it by us, including a brand new baby, mother & maternal hospital just opposite our apartment, which opened about a year ago.
Through speaking to some close friends, we have been given the name of 2 IVF specialists.
We should try to make an interview with either of these two specialists.
We have heard that their success rates are way above what is generally accepted.
Another serious plus point is we have been advised that the cost would be circa £3,300 for the full course, which is includes all pre-checks, medications, and routine post pregnant early day checks.
We are both very excited, to say the least.
As for the price, it should be remembered that we both live in China, Shandong province.


CareBear1 Thu 02-Aug-12 16:32:03

Just a quick update to say thanks so much for all the posts. The embryologist was really helpful - the grading of the best two wasn't great (4 B/C and 5 B/C) so she was happy to put two back to increase chances. She reckons only 30% chance of one of them taking. Trying not to dwell on the gradings too much (and to stay away from google!) or compare with result from last time which was better. what will be will be. Will have to catch up on the rest of you over next few days.

KnackeredCow Thu 02-Aug-12 16:34:41

Thanks for the good wishes everyone! I got my antenatal appointment through yesterday for 12 weeks. As it's an IVF twin pregnancy I'm consultant led. However, really chuffed as have one of the Consultants from ACU who's also an obstetrician specialising in IVF pregnancies. He's actually a Professor in obstetrics and reproductive medicine so feel I'm definitely going to be in good hands. One of DH's colleagues is in his care for recurrent mc / implantation failure and says he's lovely so I'm really pleased.

Zeebee is it sinking in yet? When are you due?

Cookie really sorry to hear that. sad. Don't know what to say. How much extra does ICSI cost where you are? I think it was an additional £1k at my clinic so quite a hefty increment. How are you feeling today?

Geeklette sounds like long protocol as antagonist one is only about 12 days of injections and no down-regging before stimulation.

Welcome to Fay

Right - jumping and Care you're next. And when you've both got your BFPs we can de-camp and set up an antenatal thread! smile

KnackeredCow Thu 02-Aug-12 16:38:47

CareBear. Sorry x posts.

Sounds like a sensible decision to have a DET - and what your embryologist said is similar to what mine said. However, do remember that 30% chance is better than in a natural cycle for a fertile couple so it can definitely still work for you.

Wishing you loads of luck!

jumpingjackhash Thu 02-Aug-12 21:47:34

Hi there, on my phone so apols for any typos and the brevity!

Cookie, sorry it's not as straight forward as hoped, but fwiw icsi can be a better route than straight ivf and apparently in many countries they just go straight to this as the default method of assisted conception. I think our clinic charges around £1k extra (or maybe a bit under that) for icsi over ivf. Do check out the costs and see if you can, it will help overcome the sperm issue. Would you consider egg donation? Big question, I know. Plus when you're self funding you're conscious of every element.

Care, hope the DET works! I agree with Knackered, in that 30% is still 30% and better than no chance! Keep positive!

Sounds like you're in good hands Knackered! how are you feeling?

I'm doing OK, need to poas the morning after our best friends' wedding, so at least we have something fun to take our minds off it! Right now though I'm shattered and falling asleep by 9pm and have slightly bigger and sore boobs - putting it down to the Cyclogest.

Hi there Fay, have you made any appointments yet? I must day those costs compare really well to the UK!

zeebee1 Thu 02-Aug-12 23:32:33

Hi all - sorry been singing this evening and working in the day - so been full.on. Opera finishes on Saturday... I must say I've been a bit concerned as I've had lots of crampy feelings yesterday and today. Mainly on the right hand side, hoping that is normal and just the embies embedding rather than anything more sinister.... confused I certainly didn't have these cramps first time around and that was the round that eventually failed, so maybe a good sign smile god it's so up and down it - seemingly whatever stage one gets to....
jumping I did LOL at the names - yes Brad, Helen and Heather for sure! Maybe not Eugene tho wink! Great you have a couple of good frozen ones too. Glad your biscuit biscuit's are sore - think that s a good sign...

care how are u feeling?

knackered actually too scared to think about due dates! Although working it out it might be April 1st?.. Sounds like you are In very good hands now... Is it amazing to see their little heartbeats on the screen?

fay think we should all go to china for treatment - sounds like a very reasonable cost - its more like £8000 in the Uk...

cookie thanks for your good wishes... Don't give up hope. Surely ICsI will work for you guys? Can u get a second opinion at another clinic perhaps?

Fay30 Fri 03-Aug-12 01:46:57

Thanks to KnackeredCow, jumpingjackhash, and zeebee1

I am Chinese and have lived here all my life, my dh is from Cheshire, and here just over 3 years.
Amazing place, all welcome to see the healthcare, as it really is, not how it is some times shown around the world. Unfair, but any way.
Yes, the prices here are very good, as you would expect.
So how about plan a good holiday, get the IVF done at the same time, and still have money to spare.

KnackeredCow Fri 03-Aug-12 06:08:07

Gosh - is that how much you're all paying? P'raps it's because I live oop North but I'm with an NHS clinic that accepts self-funding patients. They work on a not-for-profit basis and charge £3,050 for a complete round of IVF and £3,665 for a complete cycle of ICSI. That's the complete cost Including all drugs. And they are certainly not second-rate by any means.

KnackeredCow Fri 03-Aug-12 06:36:40

Zeebee I had a phenomenal amount of cramping from just before the BFP until I was about 7 weeks. I still get cramps from time to time. I convinced myself I was going to lose the pregnancy, but my best friend told me she cramped through the first 12 weeks and it is very normal - it's just none of the pregnancy books tell you about it!

It's caused by the uterus beginning to stretch and HCG causing your ligaments to loosen.

You only need to worry if it's really severe and there's no let up, you have bright red bleeding as well or it's completely localised to one side and like a stabbing pain.

Hope that sets your mind at ease.

jumpingjackhash Fri 03-Aug-12 09:40:02

Re. the costs of ivf/icsi - we're self-funding, rather than 'private' (the only difference aside from the additional £1k fee for private was you get to see the same consultant at every appointment - given the team set-up at Guys, we've seen the same people more or less through this icsi, the first one and the FET, so no real difference!).

Their costs have gone up across the board this year, so icsi is £4k (up from £3,600 last year) for the actual process, but then you have initial and additional consultant meetings on top of that at c. £250 a pop, plus any additional tests. Then there's the drugs, which, depending on what you're prescribed will be in the region of £1k (oddly drugs this time were initially slightly less than last).

Thanks God I signed-up to the TROPHY trial and got the hysteroscopy test for free - the consultant wanted to do something similar which probably would have cost a few hundred as it took place in the surgical section!

Not sure what the new storage costs are - anyone know if you pay per embie or per patient? We only had 1 to freeze last time so paid £600 until the FET.

God, it's all so depressing to talk about this in terms of money (whatever the reality), isn't it? sad

jumpingjackhash Fri 03-Aug-12 09:41:45

Sorry - just realised that's a big £ rant - it's not meant to be! blush

Just think it's interesting how the 'not for profit' costs (which akl self-funding is meant to be) vary so massively, even when you discount variations in overheads across regions (e.g. including or excluding drugs).

KnackeredCow Fri 03-Aug-12 19:00:24

Agree with you completely Jumping about variation. Interestingly, the local private clinic where I am charges the same as the NHS one. Guess they've had to "compete". It's sickening.

Can't believe they add on all those extras! All my consultant appointments were include in the cycle costs. The only extra was if you wanted general anaesthetic for EC (they do conscious sedation as standard) then it was an extra £312.

That's a fair old increment just for being in London. It's such an unfair system sad. How many cycles did your PCT fund (if any)?

By the way my clinic charges a set fee to freeze regardless of number of embryos. Got the bill today - it's £420 for the first year. sad

jumpingjackhash Fri 03-Aug-12 19:39:14

Our PCT doesn't fund any fertility programmes, which feels unfair when you think that the official guidance is one cycle and some PCTs fund up to three (although I've always believed that ivf should fall under things like cancer treatments etc when it come to funding priorities and the line needs to be drawn somewhere!).

Having said that, if our PCT did fund, we'd be tied to having it at a different hospital (St Helier, where they're even threatening to close the maternity unit) with a lower success rate and a grotty-looking, depressing-feeling unit in a far less convenient location for all the last-minute appointments. We'd probably have ended up self funding to have the treatment at Guys (our clinic of choice) anyway.

KnackeredCow Fri 03-Aug-12 20:15:46

Agree with you that a line does need to be drawn, but the inconsistency between PCTs really isn't fair. It's not really a "National" Health Service as it currently stands.

I was very lucky and did at least have one cycle funded.

jumpingjackhash Fri 03-Aug-12 20:20:55

We're fortunate in that we can afford to do this (to a point), I really feel for couples who can't if they don't get funding. Then I get angry about inconsistencies across the board!

Anyway, how are you and the twins doing Knackered? Feeling good? grin

KnackeredCow Fri 03-Aug-12 20:26:13

Definitely agree with you that it's so unfair that having children when you are sub fertile depends on whether you can afford treatment.

Yes, I'm good. Feeling incredibly tired - actually the tiredness is bone-crushing and very nauseous in the mornings BUT I am sure I'll be through the worst of it in a month at most.

How are you doing? When is test day for you?

jumpingjackhash Sat 04-Aug-12 08:40:54

I hope the nausea passes, guessing the tiredness will remain for a few years yet! wink

I'm testing next Saturday, in a hotel where all our friends are also staying so breakfast will either see me squirming with excitement or trying not to cry (hoping no one notices either!). I'm getting some slightly niggly feelings in my womb area, so hoping it's a positive sign?! <crosses everything>

zeebee1 Sat 04-Aug-12 09:55:29

Yey for the niggles jumping good sign I'm sure... What a time to be testing... At least you will be surrounded by friends what ever the outcome! I've had loads of cramping - all through the night in fact and managed to convince myself it's an eptopic pregnancy. I don't think ACU are open for scans etc til Monday so think I'll make myself an appointment for early next week so I can have a check up.
Feel better now tho... Just fraught that things won't work again.
Had no nausea at all - boobs still sore tho. Seem to be eating more than I usually do... Hope thats a good sign and not just greed!
Waves to everyone...

KnackeredCow Sat 04-Aug-12 10:05:27

Zeebee I didn't have any nausea until 6 weeks. And I worried with all the cramping it was ectopic, but it's very normal. Could you ask them to check your beta HCG levels? It might be too early to see anything on scan. You normally need a beta of 1,000 to 1,500 to see anything.

However If your betaHCG is increasing at the level it should (doubling every 48-72 hours) your pregnancy is unlikely to be ectopic.

My clinic does a beta at 14 dpo (EC) and then at 21 dpo to work out whether pg likely to be viable / ectopic. I had bleeding and cramping 12-14 dpo so they did an additional beta at 16dpo, which was good and set my mind at ease.

CookieRookie Sat 04-Aug-12 10:52:42

Hi all, just a flying visit today and not my usual essay grin

Hope you're all keeping well.

I'm feeling a little better having spoken to the clinic nurse. I didn't understand a lot of what she was talking about to be honest, protocol this and that but the essence of it was not all is lost just yet and there is still hope. Booked a phone consult with the doctor in a couple weeks when the results of my amh should be in and we'll take it from there.

Heading into a week of nights in work but hope to catch up with you all in the next few days.

Have great day smile

jumpingjackhash Sat 04-Aug-12 15:00:31

Don't forget everyone will have their own pregnancy Zeebee so you nay be lucky and escape morning sickness altogether! If you're really worried call the emergency doc, they do do scans on weekends but as Knackered said, it's usual to feel something so try not to worry. Have a cuppa and put your feet up.

Glad things are moving for you Cookie, it's a lot to take in but once you start it falls into place. You'll get literature and various scheduling charts from your clinic which really help too. Did the nurse mention a particular protocol for you, or is it too early to know (based on your tests)?

None Of our friends know we're close to testing again (except the bride & groom) so whatever the results, we'll be keeping them to ourselves (and you, of course!) for a little while!

zeebee1 Sun 05-Aug-12 15:38:18

Hi all
Well the cramping has Subsided I'm happy to say.. Boobs still tender too so hoping that is a good sign... Phew. Going to ask for hcg level check at hosp next week - will probaby have to pay £££ for it but I think it will put my mind at rest. Even did another POAS yesterday and happily came up positive still at 4-5 weeks... Last night of opera last night and big 70s themed party - great music - danced a lot then worried about embies confused can't win! Anyway had fab time. Now watching amazing tennis at mums.
knackered thanks for the advice - so glad the cramps are normal, and glad u r doing well.
jumping & care how r u both doing on the 2 Ww?
Waves to everyone else!

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 09:22:32

Glad the cramps have eased Zeebee! How exciting was the tennis yesterday? I can't believe is was such as straight run! We were watching it on iPhones and listening to the radio as we were out. Caught most of the doubles though - they played really well!

In other news... I'm OK, trying not to think about testing but not helping when DH keeps asking 'are you pregnant then?' or 'do you think you're pregnant now?' every 5 minutes!

We had a nice weekend of distractions, at a wedding on Saturday evening (being designated driver meant no awkward questions about being sober!), then a family christening yesterday. However, we were surrounded by babies and young kids then (many of them were sadly so ill-behaved we started to wonder if we're doing the right thing! blush grin). Of course our drive home was full of those old chestnuts "when we do have a DC, we're not letting them..." and "well, our DC (when we get there) will... not..."! Anyone care to remind me of this in a couple of years time?! wink.

How is everyone? Still enjoying the Olympics?

CareBear1 Mon 06-Aug-12 15:57:49

ZB hcg check sounds like a good idea to put your mind at rest about what's going on in there! If only there was a webcam.

Jumping glad you're ok. How are you feeling physically?

I must admit I'm finding this round the toughest so far. I felt pretty great until ET, quite positive and feeling this this might be the one, but since they gave my embryo's a lower grading I've been a bit of a wreck to be honest. I've had some light fluttery crampings over the weekend with a splash of bright pink spotting yesterday, and a few twinges today so I think they must be having a go in there, just not sure how far they will get. Its made me really scared for the future too. I was fairly distraught on the evening of the ET and sobbing on poor DH. My mind is now a bit jelly like, and finding it hard to focus on anything. Thank god for the distraction of the olympics!

zeebee1 Mon 06-Aug-12 16:25:42

care i'm so sorry that you are feeling pants - its the awfulness of the 2WW... so helps to try and get your mind on other things - i tend to visit my Mum or a good friend if I know i'm going to be on my own 1 day, or make myself go to an exhibition or something - just so I get out out of the house if I'm not at work.. mind you - being at work - i'm obsessively on mumsnet the whole time anyway! I think light spotting is a great sign tho? Plus twinges...
what day do you test?
jumping your weekend sound fun - I understand re DH and asking questions all the time like: do you feel PG, are your boobs still sore, are we ever going to have torch again wink
normally I reply "i don't know" to every question!!

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 17:36:00

Aww Care, sorry you're feeling crap. The crampings and spotting sound positive so try not to worry about the quality - if the embryologist didn't think they were in with a good enough shot, they wouldn't have put them back! When do you poas?

I'm feeling OK physically, well, actually I've had the odd cramp (no spotting - obsessively checking blush), sore boobs, feeling a bit icky and wanting to eat potato products (the thought of potato waffles, potato cakes, hash browns.... ooh!), and usually I don't really eat many carbs (never fancy them, certainly not junky stuff like that) I'm taking as positives. I also just feel generally uncomfortable (still a bit bloated but I've got more of a handle on that) and can't wait to get home from wherever I am and just take my clothes off! Much to DH's pleasure, until I snap at him to 'get off, my boobs hurt'!

HOWEVER, I also believe you will often see / feel things you're really looking hard for / really want to. Trying so hard not to get my hopes up.

fishfingersarnie Mon 06-Aug-12 18:46:34

Evening all! Mind if I join you?

Well, I'm on my second cycle of ICSI (first cycle was December and it was cancelled as I was a poor responder), had EC on the 23rd July (15 eggs collected), ET on the 28th July (5aa blastocyst). Have 4 similar grade blastos on ice and the embryologist gave us a 50/50 chance of the blast sticking.

My test date is this Thursday (should have been Weds but DH is out of the country) and I am going barmy symptom spotting and googling the crap out of every little thing grin

Do pregnancy cramps feel different from AF cramps? I'm having very light cramps that feel a bit AF-like but then I also get a few sharper tingly pains, some of which are close to my hip on the right hand side and also in the....erm....under-carriage area blush. Have also had hot flushes, felt light-headed, mahoosive boobs, spots.....

I know that all these symptoms are likely to be down to the Cyclogest but I can't help but hope for the best.....one minute I'm convinced that this hasn't worked, then the next minute I let myself believe that the test will be positive confused

How do you keep your sanity in the last few days before the test?????

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 19:15:13

Hey fishfingersarnie, welcome!

So you're close to the end of the 2ww?! Sounds to like like the feeling Care and I have been having, we're taking them as good! Have slso had a sprinkling of spots on my chin (attractive). Hoping the boobs attract attention away from them!

Wow, a 5aa! Plus 4 in the freezer! You really got a good batch this time! wink. How have you found the process second time around?

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 19:16:11

Ps re. Sanity... That went (along with my shame) at the beginning of this process!

KnackeredCow Mon 06-Aug-12 19:20:09

Welcome Fishfinger! Sounds like you've got an excellent chance. I had a 5Aa put back, and a 4Aa. Both took...

Care I had cramping and spotting so very promising. Definitely a good sign. Try not to get too disheartened. If (and only if) the worst happens it doesn't mean a third round won't be successful. I only made 2 x 2Bb blasts on cycle two, but on cycle three I made a 5Aa, 4Aa and 2 x Bbs that went on ice. I responded much better on my third cycle than my previous two in terms of number of blastocysts and quality. I have no idea why, but apparently it's very normal to make different quality embryos on different rounds. My worst cycle was the one in which I produced the greatest number of eggs (cycle two). Sorry, don't want to be negative just trying to reiterate that some women take three or four cycles for it to work, and that is totally normal. But hopefully that won't be you and it will work this time. And the signs are looking hopeful.

Zeebee early pregnancy cramps were very similar (probably more severe) than AF cramps but I kept wishing they would stop and I ran to the loo every five minutes - especially as I had a bleed days 12-14 post EC. And then when they became less frequent I panicked as well. I don't think you can ever relax when you've been through assisted conception.

Jumping I think the 2ww is the most agonising part of IVF/ICSI. Good luck for Saturday. Really hoping it's a BFP for you.

fishfingersarnie Mon 06-Aug-12 19:23:34

Hi jumping!

Really pleased this time - I was so heartbroken last time as we didn't even make it to EC and I was convinced that my ovaries were rubbish, the eggs would be rubbish etc etc, so this time around, I'd said to DH that I only wanted 6 eggs, that was all.

When I went in for the final scan before EC they were worried I was overstimulating! Can't get much more different than last time! Although they got 15 eggs, 12 of them were from one ovary and there were many more follicles than that at the scan (I think 18 on the left and about 10 on the right) - so they prescribed me Cabergoline to counteract any signs of OHSS - that made me sick as a dog and miserable (as I think they have a slightly depressive effect and I have suffered depression in the past).
Once I finished the Cabergoline though I felt mentally better and my body caught up a few days later.

Chuffed to bits at the quality and quantity that we ended up with - was very surprised that there were some top quality blasts that we could freeze! We've already said that if this cycle doesn't work (but it WILL......think positive!!!!) then we'll go straight in for another go with one of the frozen ones.

Same as you with the spots - all over my chin! I never had spots this bad when I was a teenager!!!!

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 19:32:58

What were you taking as stim drug fishfingersarnie? It did the job!

Hey Knackered! you and the twins well?

fishfingersarnie Mon 06-Aug-12 20:11:20

jumping I was on Menopur - 4 vials a day! I think my ovaries are old before their time!

Good luck to those that are waiting to test and congratulations to those that have had a long-awaited BFP!! Here's hoping that this is a lucky thread!

Decaf brew all round! Anyone for biscuit?

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 20:17:10

Would live a biscuit but think they need a [chocolate] and [non-alcoholic wine ] too!

KnackeredCow Mon 06-Aug-12 20:47:35

I'm OK, jumping.

Feel awful but fatigue and nausea so bad now had to call in sick today sad. Got to go in tomorrow as interviewing. Feeling useless. Had two weeks off sick a year ago due to lap, two days when I hyper stimulated on cycle 2 and then two and a half weeks in March when I felt so low after cycle 2 failed. Just really struggling now. I'm over the moon I'm pregnant but worried it looks like I'm not pulling my weight at work.

jumpingjackhash Mon 06-Aug-12 21:38:00

Aww, hope it passes. When do you plan on telling work? They'll understand then.

KnackeredCow Tue 07-Aug-12 07:24:08

I've already told most people as we've had two viability scans now, and I'm beginning to show. But my boss is very two-faced so although he'll be nice to my face I can just imagine what he's saying behind my back. Also feel like I'm letting my team down sad

jumpingjackhash Tue 07-Aug-12 09:22:08

Don't think like that Knackered, I'm sure they understand - or at the very least appreciate - the changes your body is going through and the impact it's going to have. Can you speak to HR to get it off your chest and underline your commitment / worries? Then at least you'll have it boxed-off a little and don't need to worry so much.

FWIW, I hear it gets better once you get through the first trimester!

fishfingersarnie Tue 07-Aug-12 11:41:17

Morning all!

knackered - I hope you get peace of mind at work, I'm sure they will be fine. jumping may be right about speaking to HR if you feel that your boss is unapproachable/unsympathetic. You have had a lot less time off than I've had over the course of the last year but fortunately my boss is so laid back and male so doesn't want to ask questions grin

Have had a new symptom appear today.....I've read loads about this metallic taste in your mouth that can appear. My mouth has had a funny taste in it all morning - not so much metallic but more like a bitter/sour taste at the back of my mouth - is that the same thing?????

jumpingjackhash Tue 07-Aug-12 12:02:46

I had that last time fishfingersarnie so a sign indeed! And my sense of smell went crazy!

Do you have any other symptoms or feelings?

Today I'm just feeling exhausted - physically drained - (but I didn't sleep well last night) adn a bit dizzy from time to time along with getting hot/cold flushes to go with the niggly/crampy twinges. I've also felt quite nauseated today, went off food last night and just want to nibble little bits.

I'm worried I'm finding things that aren't really there and getting my hopes up.

zeebee1 Wed 08-Aug-12 09:01:35

Pheww - I went and got my HCg levels checked yesterday and hosp just called to say they were good. I'm going to have another test tomrrow morning... Was worried when I woke up yesterday morning as boobs had stopped hurting and thats what happened the first time when the ivf pregnancy failed... So feeling positive today now!
Jumping - all Those signs are good
& fish finger - fingers crossed for your test tomorrow being a lovely BFP!
Care - how r u doing ? When do u test?
Waves to everyone else - am on phone and tricky to scroll back...

fishfingersarnie Wed 08-Aug-12 10:32:14

jumping - other symptoms include minor cramps every morning that seem to die off (so spend every morning thinking the end is nigh), still a slight bitter taste in my mouth but not as strong as yesterday, occasional shooting pains in my biscuitbiscuit and a couple of head-rushes during the day (like I've been sat down too long and suddenly got up too quick.....even when I'm just walking around). Apart from that, not a lot going on and I'm still not sure what symptoms can be attributed to the Cyclogest and what might be genuine symptoms.
Just gotta hold on until tomorrow AM....... hmm

jumping How are your symptoms coming along?

care how are you getting on?

zeebee - glad that the test has reassured you! Although I am desperate for a BFP, I'm sure the worry about every little symptom or disappearance of a symptom will continue for the next few months. Good to know that there are ways to check everything is going as it should!

CareBear1 Wed 08-Aug-12 10:33:01

ZB that's great news, what a relief. What was your HCg level out of interest?

My test day is next monday, though AF would be due this saturday i think. Yesterday i felt pretty exhausted, but more emotionally than anything I think. Other than that flutterings have more or less stopped, boobs feel a bit bigger than normal but not hurting - feel about the same as i normally do, so not feeling very positive at the moment.

zeebee1 Wed 08-Aug-12 11:44:03

Aw care remember that everyone has different symptoms - its the waiting to test that can get you so down and worried isnt it - ar eyou doing some nice things this week - I treated myself to the MOST AMAZING foot massage/leg scrub thingy at my local beauty shop toward the end of the 2WW and it really helped me feel relaxed - are you based in London - if so I can give you the salon's details - it really was amazing.... (they even wrap your legs in towels and put a relaxinf face mask on you at the same time!) it did cost around £50 but was WORTH EVERY penny..... wink
Oh yes - in my happiness at being told hcg levels were fine I forgot to ask what they actually were blush going back tomorrow so when they ring with those results i';ll ask them... they were really reticent about doing another test - think they think i'm wasting their time (even though WE are funding this round!)

fish so officially you can test today but are wiating for your DH's arrival tomorrow to test - is that right? you are ONE STRONG LADY!

AFM - my DH told me off this morning for having made us both have the most miserable day yesterday waiting for the results to come back - I then told him off to say that if all this was happening to his insides he'd be 100x worse! He's pulled a ligament in his knee and is making SO MUCH fuss about it - you'd think he was at deaths door - so enough said!

jumpingjackhash Wed 08-Aug-12 15:54:32

Good luck poas tomorrow fish!

Care don't worry about symptoms or not - my SIL didn't have any at all for the first few months, then it was really only the bump that gave it away!

My cramps have gone now, but I'm still tired (mainly because I'm not sleeping - I'm drinking so much water in the day I'm constantly in need of the loo and feel like I'm peeing all night!). Also I no longer need the prune juice (quite the opposite in fact) blush tmi - sorry!

Boobs still a bit bigger and a bit tender, but putting this down to the cyclogest as they've been like this for a while now.

Jeez - it's easy to convince yourself of anything you want to believe!

Glad your mind is at rest now zeebee, I'm sure your DH will soon learn the error of his ways and stop commenting on your feelings and reactions! wink

zeebee1 Thu 09-Aug-12 16:18:57

Hi all
Hope everyone hasn't expired in the heat on this thread - what a gorgeous day!
fish hope things are OK?
jumping & carehow you doing ladies?
AFM - my HCG levels have doubled in 2 days 3000 on tues and 6000 today so i'm, really pleased/releaved/grining...

Just had an email from a great friend in australia - who is 41 who is 17 weeks PG with 1st child - they were about to start IVF when suddenly she found herself PG! SO happy for her....

KnackeredCow Thu 09-Aug-12 16:25:33

Zeebee. That's fantastic news. How many days past EC are you? It might give a hint as to whether it could be twins or not...

Mine were
Day 14 post EC 167
Day 16 post EC 273
Day 21 post EC 3,169

Obviously there is a massive range and a high beta doesn't necessarily mean twins and vice versa, but it's fun to guess! Mine started off low for twins (my initial doubling rate was slow) and then it really took off.

zeebee1 Thu 09-Aug-12 16:29:01

EC was 16th July....
so i'm 24 days post EC.... and it's 6000! cripes! confused wink grin

KnackeredCow Thu 09-Aug-12 16:54:46

Zeebee I reckon it's twins...

Have a look at this website - not particularly scientific but it gives medians (from getting women to add their data) for twin and singleton pregnancies at each day past ovulation / EC. You're pretty much bang on for twins!


Of course, I could be wrong, but I had fun trying to guess!

zeebee1 Thu 09-Aug-12 17:01:25

Love that chart - thanks knackered - here's hoping! Now I must get on with some work today and stop obessing over beta results !! wink

jumpingjackhash Thu 09-Aug-12 19:14:47

Are we having a sweepstake on Zeebee? I'll go for triplets! grin

You must be really relieved! This may be a stupid question, but how are you monitoring your HCG levels?! Do you have to have them done at the hosp?

Afm, I've had a weird 'pulling' or 'prodding' feeling in my belly button and after a cramp free day yesterday they started again today. In fact, I feel like I constantly have a full bladder (that 'heavy inside' feeling) and my belly is swollen and looks like I'm already 3 months gone. I feel really crappy and by the end of the day just want to curl up and not move (unless it's to eat potato!). God I hope this works, I feel far worse than the last full cycle (taking solace in the fact that one didn't last long after the bfp so maybe 'this is it'?!). <kicks self for getting hopes up again>

Fish, how did you get on? Have been thinking about you today.

KnackeredCow Thu 09-Aug-12 19:58:28

Jumping grin. Sweepstake made me laugh!

Your symptoms sound much like mine. It's sounding very promising. How many days past EC are you now? I am amazed you haven't cracked and tested!

I'm wondering how fishfinger got on too....

KnackeredCow Thu 09-Aug-12 20:14:11

Meant to add betaHCG levels are monitored by the hospital via blood tests.

My clinic does them as standard because they are more predictive than a home pregnancy test as to how likely a pregnancy is to be viable. It's a bit of a double edged sword - pregnancies with low betas 14 days post EC can be successful so too much information could cause unnecessary stress. But, it also prepares you if it's likely to end in early mc. And low levels or slow rising levels can indicate it's ectopic - which of course is a greater risk of an IVF / ICSI pregnancy.

My clinic confirms pregnancy if your beta is greater than 75 14 days post EC. That gives a 70% probability of a viable pregnancy. At a beta of 100 it increases to 84%. Obviously a point is reached when it plateaus at about 90% probability. Of course pregnancies with lower betas can definitely be viable, but it falls to around 50% at a beta of 50.

After my first cycle my beta was 72, and my clinic was only cautiously optimistic.

What's really important is to retest. My clinic does this a week later. They look for a doubling time of 48-72 hours to confirm things are OK. Initially low betas can pick up.

Different clinics do different things, and sometimes too much information doesn't work for some people. Some people prefer to know. I personally like to be prepared, but that's just me.

jumpingjackhash Thu 09-Aug-12 20:17:36

Thanks Knackered, I don't think our clinic does it as a matter of course as last time I called them with the bfp they just booked me in for a viability scan at 7 weeks. I can see how the info from these tests could reassure or panic so will see how we get on!

jumpingjackhash Thu 09-Aug-12 20:20:21

Oh, sorry, am 14 days past collection (same as ov in ivf?). Sometimes I feel so I'll informed! I'm very much a 'they'll tell me if I need to know!' kinda gal!

Was half tempted to test tomorrow (day early) so if it doesn't work I can just get blotto at friend's wedding. Resisting the urge though!

photographerlady Fri 10-Aug-12 06:13:22

Hello Ladies. I hope you do not mind me nesting here. After 6 months of tests with the fertility nurses at my local hospital we found out my DH has a low sperm count and our option is IVF. After a bit if panic we requested another test done for him while we wait on our next appointment but needless to say finding out that natural conception is now out of the question and that we do not qualify for NHS IVF has really knocked us back emotionally.

I picked up a few books the other way, read some things on here and started watching a bit of personal video logs on youtube. I wanted to stay away from random internet information but so far the book I am reading is by a journalist who went through IVF in the UK and seems to explain quite a few things which will hopefully give me a bit of heads up before the next appointment.

Please feel free to offer any early advice, especially things such as coping with busy work schedules, appointments, things to look out for, hidden costs and how many months do I realistically need to invest for tests-treatments-etc.

jumpingjackhash Fri 10-Aug-12 07:18:23

Welcome Photographerlady! sorry to hear about your struggles but if it's any consolation, Dale factor infertility is an easier problem to work around than female.

Are you looking at ivf or icsi? That can often be a better route, depending on the actual problem (we're having that as in addition to a low sperm count DH's swimmers don't actually swim much either!).

Is you book the Kate Brain one? I have that and it's really helpful. I first got the Zita West book but found it a bit 'woo!'. I like Kate's honesty and frankness (plus she's been where we are too). You will see case studies and anecdotes of couples on their seventh round, but don't get disheartened, I think they're extreme!

So, the practicalities! Really it depends where you're having treatment. We chose our clinic because of it's reputation but also because it's only 5 mins in a cab from where I work (about 40 mins from home), as that way I can easily duck out for scans, blood tests and what have you without anyone knowing what it's for. I have a lot of 'errands' and in the last year have had opticians, dentist and solicitor (inventive!) appointments! You do need to take a couple of days off for your egg collection and might prefer to have a day off for the transfer (I went back to work after 2 of these, took the day off for the fet in-between).

In terms if timings, once you start sniffing you get a scheduling chart with approximate timings so you kind of know roughly when things might happen and you'll need to go in. I just blocked likely dates out of my calendar and told a close friend at work I needed to go to some hospital appointments (but not what for) so she covered me in any meetings.

As for the physical/ emotional side and work, well you get used to sniffing drugs in the loo (sounds v 90s!), on the tube, wherever! Plus you get used to hiding and side effects. I've not had any issues juggling it all but I do plan my work diary meticulously which helps!

jumpingjackhash Fri 10-Aug-12 07:22:30

Also, re the costs, your clinic will give you a list of all costs, usually this doesn't include drugs. Allow around £1k for these.

One point, we're self funding, rather than private (we didn't see any real difference between the two other than an extra £1k) and our clinic doesn't include drugs in their costs. Some clinics include drugs in their self funding costs so check for your budgeting.

Also, I found it useful to have a small notebook for this, I write down everything from dates and intstuctions to conversations with embryologists. That and a calendar we mark all key stages / dates on is invaluable!

photographerlady Fri 10-Aug-12 09:08:20

Thank you for all the info. At this stage we have just been referred to IVF. So not sure that stage that is GP> refer Fertility specialist nhs > every test > back to specialist who now say IVF is only option. They said all my tests were prefectly fine but with DH low sperm count I guess I wait on the next step of figuring out IVF or if they suggest icsi. Will a clinc make me pay and take all the tests again?

Cost wise I am still trying to figure out what self funded and private means. I am sort of understanding that I could go to a clinc of my choosing or take it at my next NHS appointment they are
Going to suggest NHS lead clinc (but ofc paying).

I commute 1.5 hours a day to London so little worried about where to go clinc wise and not lose my job. They won't be very supportive on me missing work but will burn that bridge when we come to it.

Thank you so much for your help so far means alot

jumpingjackhash Fri 10-Aug-12 10:17:55

Tbh there's little difference between self funded and full private, you're still paying but it's usually that full private means you see only the same doc throughout, rather than a team.

If you're doing either of these you can choose your clinic. This is important because you need to feel comfortable with them and it needs to work for you in terms of appointments etc. Our closest clinic was depressing and not actually convenient for appointments at all!

Do some research on clinics and get your doc to refer you to your preferred place. Factors which will help you decide will be success rates, location / convenience (a reality!) and cost. Don't feel you need to go where you're told or first sent!

zeebee1 Fri 10-Aug-12 11:15:23

Morning all
Welcome to photo sorry you are on this journey with us now - but once you have started it all it really doesn't feel as daunting as thinking about what it's going to be like... I felt numb when I realised we were going to have to go through it but once I began with the first sniff of the first drug I felt excited and forward thinking that finally we might reach the goal we so wanted! Mumsnet has been invaluable all through the process... This is my 2nd fresh round (I had a failed frozen transfer earlier this year too) so keeping my hopes up that it might work this time wink
jumping I rang the usual ACU number to get my beta levels done - I had to go into Guys on Tues and Thursady mronings this week for them to be taken - has to be 48 hours apart...
So... Jumping - are you going to test early wink

photographerlady Fri 10-Aug-12 16:02:34

Well I guess it doesn't hurt to start shopping around so to speak. There are two hospital and two private clinics by my work. The train ride home might be odd but as long as they say it's fine (leaving collection and popping the little chap back in) then might be the best way to not miss much work for the little appointments. London is costly so I guess looking at home too in the next coming weeks while we get the referral can't hurt.

sgibbo Fri 10-Aug-12 16:34:58

Hi hope you guys don't mind me joining you

I am on stimulation day 4 for my 3rd cycle of IVF. We recently found out the cause of our infertility and this has taken a huge weight of my mind that this has more chance of working compared to the 1st two cycles. I had "Chicago Blood tests" which revealed clotting issues when the embryos tried to implant. I am on a cocktail of tablets and injections and am getting excited about EC.

photographerlady - I live and work just outside London but have opted for a clinic in London (Zita West) on the basis that they have offered a more personal approach. My DH sperm was on the low side but nothing that would not have caused any concern. Having been to the clinic they have put him on a number of vitamins and supplements and his quality has improved considerably. I have also found that the cost is comparable with the clinic we were at previously. It might be worth having a look at their website or going to see them. They tend to try everything they can before recommending IVF

jumpingjackhash Sat 11-Aug-12 06:49:32

Just a quick post as it's an early start following a very late night! I had about 3 hours sleep but couldn't wait!

BFP! grin. Hope this one sticks but keeping positive because of the symptoms I'm having, this time feels different.

Anyway, have to go. DH is very envy < that's hungover! And he's doing his best to pretend he's not!

Back later for catch-ups!

zeebee1 Sat 11-Aug-12 08:36:35

jumping grin so so happy for you - you must be over the moon!
Wonderful news.... So know what u mean about it feeling 'different' this time around. Yeyeyey!

zeebee1 Sat 11-Aug-12 08:41:59

Welcome siggbo what is a Chicago blood test? Did they do that at zita west? Do u mind me asking how far you got on your previous 2 attempts?
Best of luck with this round. I hear very good things about zita west clinic- dr ndukwe is supposed to be brilliant
photo where are you based?
care how are you?
knackered how is the morning sickness ?

KnackeredCow Sat 11-Aug-12 09:05:17

Congratulations "Jumping*! grin

Brilliant news. FX it's a sticky one and here's to an uneventful eight months for you!

I felt quite different on this attempt to my first too - stronger cramps etc so I think your symptoms are definitely a good sign!

KnackeredCow Sat 11-Aug-12 09:08:22

Meant to say welcome sgiboo and photographer - sorry - didn't mean to be rude just got very excited about Jumping's BFP! smile

CareBear1 Sat 11-Aug-12 10:03:48

Great news Jumping! Well done you.

No news yet from me, testing Mon. Feel very tired but otherwise not a lot different, fearing the worst at the moment.

Hi to the new people

photographerlady Sat 11-Aug-12 10:56:49

congrats jumping! Are you ladies testing on your own or is this Beta tests back? Sorry that might be the most naive question around. I would imagine it differs from clinc to clinc but what has your post implantation routine been.

KnackeredCow Sat 11-Aug-12 11:49:49

photographer my clinic tells you not to do any home tests but I ignored them and did them anyway!

Routine where I was treated was a beta 14 days after egg collection. A true positive was confirmed at 75 or greater. Below that close monitoring.

My clinic then repeated the beta at 21 days past egg collection to assess likelihood of failing pregnancy or ectopic. However, on my first attempt it was repeated 16 days after egg collection as I'd had bleeding. It didn't rise sad and so I was monitored until it dropped back to 2 and they could confirm m/c complete.

Third IVF attempt I asked for a repeat 2 days after first beta, again because of bleeding. This time it continued to rise nicely and was 3169 21 days after egg collection smile

The other reason why my clinic does them is to work out whether an implantation has been attempted but failed. As beta levels are very low if this occurs you wouldn't necessarily turn a home test positive - but it's useful information for the clinic to collect.

On my second IVF attempt I had two reasonable quality embryos put back, but my first beta was 1 which means they didn't even attempt implantation. I can only assume they stopped dividing soon after they were put back and failed to hatch. Just bad luck - nothing more, nothing less.

jumpingjackhash Sat 11-Aug-12 12:28:54

Hey! Thanks for the congrats!

Our clinic gets you to do a test (that they give you) at home, but to be really sure I did a clear blue digi one too (wanted to see the word 'pregnant'!). I've left s message with the result for the clinic so they'll call me back to arrange a scan in for around 5 weeks time.

I think we need to ask for beta tests at Guys (is that right Zeebee?), unless they have other reason to check.

zeebee1 Sat 11-Aug-12 12:37:55

Yup jumping- you need to ask guys to do beta tests- and they will only do so if you have a genuine worry... IMO I think they should do them for everyone worries or no worries....

photographerlady Sat 11-Aug-12 12:57:59

Thanks so much for all the info. We received our final letter from the fertility NHS appointments. We go in October 4th as we asked for another test for my husband. I mentioned our first test he was fine, then the second said he had under 2 million and they were sorry but the first test was most likely mixed up results with someone else... it was shocking but the second test was at Hammersmith at a sperm clinc testing place and they said that test was most likely true as the first was at St albans at the hospital. So the third and final one is at Hammersmith again but they already have our IVF referral. Little nightmare but we wanted to test one more time on the NHS before we had to start self-funding and it was all a bit of a blow to the system.

Emotionally I can not describe how hard its been. I am a stepmom of two lovely kids 8 and 10. For my husband to have problems now with low sperm was the last thing we expect especially after all the tests I have had and really we were starting to come to terms with it being me.

Anyway, we are going to go to open days at Guys Hospital near London Bridge, The Bridge Centre, Barts and The London Centre for Reproductive Medicine. This thread has helped me so much with getting to grips with the process and taking it all in.

jumpingjackhash Sat 11-Aug-12 15:16:46

Both Zeebee and I are at Guys, personally I've had a very good experience and we do usually end up seeing the same people as it's quite a small team. It feels welcoming and like they really 'get' what we're going through.

You'll probably be surprised when you see just how many couples pack into the lecture theatre for the info evening though! I remember thinking there would maybe be around a dozen of us, but it's shocking how many couples struggle to conceive naturally!

photographerlady Sat 11-Aug-12 18:49:20

hey jump so what made you choose Guys and were you at another clinc before? Thanks for the heads up on the info evening, I think that would be a bit of a shock.

jumpingjackhash Sat 11-Aug-12 21:21:33

Photographer we were originally referred to St Helier but after the first consultation, where we waited over 90 mins beyond our appointment time (we even had the first apt of the day!) in a really minging and depressing room, then frlt the consultation wasn't helping to answer pur questions or even moving things along (they were talking about starting in Oct/Nov '11 when we saw them in April '11!) we decided it wasn't the place for us. Plus, as we were paying ourselves we wanted to choose the best place for us.

Guys leads research into male factor infertility, which is our main issue, plus their results were good and a friend had experienced good (successful!) treatment there. After the patient info evening and a consultation we felt it was what we were after (people, reputation, approach). Then of course there's the convenience factor. Even though St H was geographically closer to home, Guys is only a few mins from my office so it's so easy to pop out for appointments (scans in the mornings, bloods at lunchtime...).

I guess it all just fell into place and made sense for our situation (plus the costs seemed comparable to other places).

Have you thought about any priority factors that will swing it for you?

fishfingersarnie Sun 12-Aug-12 10:07:16

Morning all.....BFN for me I'm afraid.
We're both gutted so are going away for a couple of days to get our heads together. Got a follow-up appointment at the fertility centre at the end of the month to discuss next steps etc.
We're definitely going to use the frozen blasts and take it from there.
I think DH is more upset than me - he was sure I'd be pregnant whereas I knew that there was always a chance that it might not work.

jumping congratulations!!! Best wishes for a happy healthy pregnancy!

Hello to everyone else!

I might not be back for a few days but will pop in from time to time and see how everyone is doing xxx

KnackeredCow Sun 12-Aug-12 10:44:45

Fishfinger I am so so sorry to hear it didn't work this time sad

If it's any consolation I had a grade Ab blast put back on my first cycle which the embryologist gave about a 50/50 chance of it sticking too. Mine didn't either and it took (initial BFP followed by very early m/c two days later) me another two fresh cycles to get my BFP. Sometimes it's just bad luck and there's no rhyme or reason - it just takes a few attempts.

Interestingly I mildly hyper stimulated on my second cycle too and even though I had two good (Bb) embryos transferred neither took at all. Although clinic didn't think it would make a difference DH and I have always wondered whether the mild OHSS made conditions less favourable for implantation.

If I can give you a positive it's simply to keep going. It took me three fresh cycles and one frozen to get to the point of viable pregnancy. I was successful on my third fresh cycle.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. The failure is soul destroying. Make sure you take any time out you need to come to terms with what's happened but do remember you still have every chance of success.

zeebee1 Sun 12-Aug-12 12:30:17

fish I am so so sorry about your news. I've been thinking about you a lot. I really hope you get back on the ivf train soon and get those FETs going... It's a crappy time when you have to come to terms with a round failing... I know exactly how you feel... Sending you strength and courage
All the best zb

CareBear1 Sun 12-Aug-12 14:43:21

Fish so gutted for you for the BFN. It really hurts, I know, but do take the positive that you made great blasts so every reason it could work next time.

jumpingjackhash Sun 12-Aug-12 18:41:41

So sorry for you Fish (and your DH of course). Take the time you need to recover and then go for the FET with fresh energy. You have some goodies in the freezer, just waiting for you.

Take care of yourself. X

KnackeredCow Mon 13-Aug-12 18:20:00

Care. Been thinking of you - how did it go today?

CareBear1 Mon 13-Aug-12 18:41:13

BFN. I've flitted between not too bad and very gutted today. DH has been his usual amazing self and said he's looking forward to the au naturel version next month. Feels slightly more end of the road than before due to quality of embryos.

KnackeredCow Mon 13-Aug-12 18:57:38

I'm so sorry CareBear sad

It's absolutely gutting when it fails a second time. I needed time off work (more than two weeks) when my second cycle failed. All I can say is that it doesn't mean you won't make good embryos if you feel you want to try again at some point. I really feel for you. It's soul destroying. Take care and look after yourself. x

zeebee1 Mon 13-Aug-12 19:03:33

Care I am so so sorry about it not working out for you this time.
Your DH sounds amazing - like mine. Thinkng of you both and take some time off to grieve. Very best to you

jumpingjackhash Mon 13-Aug-12 20:36:08

Oh Care, so sorry it's not worked out this time. Your DH sounds like a gem, lean on him and be good to each other. He may be right with the au naturel, you have to stay positive.

Sending you hugs x

CookieRookie Mon 13-Aug-12 21:23:27

Hi all

Decided to take a break from the thread after our news the other day. Just needed to stop thinking about it all for a while. We've talked about everything over the last couple of days and we've decided not to go ahead with it. We know the odds, we know what the clinic will say but ultimately we both now know that we cannot face any more hurt so, for us, it's better to accept our circumstances and try to move on.

We're very fortunate in that we have a dd (not biologically dh's but she may as well be, he's her father in every other sense) and though it was a hard decision it was made easier because we have her. We've very lucky and we know that.

So sorry to read care and fish that it hasn't worked this time. I wish you both comfort, peace, strenght and success in the future.

Congratulations jumping. That's fantastic news. I really hope it's sticky. Wishing you all the very best for a happy, healthy pregnancy.

knackered hope you and the twins are keeping well. The sickness is awful but hopefully won't last too much longer. Agree you could talk to HR and put your mind at rest regarding work. I was off for so long with my losses, operations and grieving I was dreading telling them I'd need to be off again to have treatment, like you worrying they would think I wasn't pulling my weight but once they knew they were very good about. Best of luck to you.

ZB Hope all is going well for you too. Will be popping by to see how the sweepstake is going! Best of luck for the future.

Thank you all for being so lovely and patient with me with all my questions.

See you around the boards smile

missbrightside Wed 15-Aug-12 10:28:01

I hope you don't mind me popping on your thread to send best wishes to Care Bear. This whole process is so unfair (sorry - I know I should be writing something more positive). Your husband sounds lovely. The only thing I've learnt from IVF so far is that my own partner is far more loyal and committed to me than I could ever have imagined. So that in itself can't be a bad thing !

Take good care of yourself.

Love from a fellow Sussex girl xxx

zeebee1 Wed 15-Aug-12 18:42:55

Hi all - it's gone quiet on here....
jumping did you get a scan date sorted with the hospital?
How are you feeling?

Missbright thanks for popping on - hope your IVF journey is being good to you?

care how are you doing? Thinking of you
cookie you are very brave to take a break from it all - it can certainly take over your life can't it - I wish you every good luck with whatever you decide to do in the end - i'm sure you are exploring all avenues - not just IVF.

jumpingjackhash Wed 15-Aug-12 19:48:25

Hi there, hope you're feeling OK Cookie, you've made a tough decision and kudos to you. thanks

I'm booked in for a scan on 4 Sept, which feels like a lifetime away! I'm so bloated it's not funny. I seriously look 4 months gone, not weeks! It's already proving tricky to hide my 'bump' and I'm convinced people at work are noticing blush. It's making me feel quite down! I've had some cramps but they're easing and have felt exhausted and nauseous all day today. Hoping it's all good signs! Terrified something will go wrong again.

How about you Zeebee?

zeebee1 Wed 15-Aug-12 20:16:47

hi jumping - good to hear fromyou... your scan is on my 40th birthday! Got to be a good omen for you!
All those symptoms sound good... i've had that cramping off and on - its bad today - in fact I took a day off from work to lie on the sofa & do my emails from there... only felt nauseous twice this week - at work during a meeting each time - so that was a bit wierd, thinking how will I run out of this room and vom if I need to wink. Re your bloating - that sounds very uncomfortable - are you eating lots of fibre - that might help a bit? AFM - no belly as such but certainly boobs have got bigger and are sore from time to time... wearing a different (bigger & mumsie-type) bra than usual for comfort (doesnt do my figure any favours already!)

Likeyou I am incredibly nervous about everything... jsut want this to work so much - time feels like its standing still at times. I've had to move our scan date from next Tuesday to next Thurs as i've now got to go up and work in Manchester on tues and wed next week... I've also moved meetings etc so that if it's bad news next Thursday afternoon I can take Friday off and cry all day at home if needs be!! Postive thinking or what!
Just ordered some becks blue on line - cant wait to guzzle those!

jumpingjackhash Wed 15-Aug-12 20:49:34

Hey, the bloating is weird, it's not like I've had before, this actually looks like a proper pregnancy belly! It's firm and sits low, like a proper bump! My brother is getting married next month, when I'll hopefully be 11 weeks, so still before the magic 12 weeks but I don't know how I'm going to hide it! I need to completely rethink my outfit as the gorgeous dress I have for it probably won't fit by then (or I'll look a right state in it!). Oh I hope that's my biggest problem then!

Keep positive! You've had the hormone checks, so that must be reassuring?

jumpingjackhash Fri 17-Aug-12 10:04:35

Well, my bloating has eased A LOT! Now I just have a bit of a potato belly!

It seems ditching caffeine (drinking hot water with lemon instead), onions, tomatoes, green veg and bread has really eased the indigestion and bloat (and wind blush) enormously. Shame these are among my favourite foods though.

Still having slight cramps, but the awful headache and associated nausea I've had for the last couple of days has gone (prob linked to caffeine withdrawal!).

How is everyone? Zeebee how are you staying sane before your scan? This wait is agonising! I just want to know for certain that 'something's in there'!

photographerlady Sat 18-Aug-12 08:02:37

Morning everyone. So I am in full research mode as I have 6 weeks til my next appointment on the nhs. As we do not qualify for coverage on the NHS the past week has been a lot of talking and sorting finances. I did receive some information on egg share although not at the hospital I was looking to get my IVF. I think our next step will be calling them in a few weeks to arrange an appointment at two places in London to discuss that option. Scary times.

zeebee1 Sat 18-Aug-12 09:01:28

Morning all
photogeapher it always feels so daunting when you begin the research and booking of appointment s - but once you are in the swing it doesn't feel as bad... Wishing you luck with your appointments...
jumping glad the wind has eased off - your nausea might be related to being PG not caffeine! That would be a good sign. I'm feeling fine - had a couple of feeling sick moments this week - boobs have grown - then no symptoms for a day or so and feel worried its not worked!! Anyway we have a scan booked for next Thursday (I'll be 7+1 then hopefully) so we'll be put out of our misery then! I'm Certianly having the most intense dreams every night. My belly looks a bit swollen / might be the progesterone making it do that! Am off to Brighton for the day with my 15 year old niece to walk along the beach and have a nice day. Have good Saturday's all

zeebee1 Mon 20-Aug-12 14:19:00

Hi all!
Quiet on here... hope people are OK?
jumping how you doing?

Anyway i'm having major wobbles over the last couple of days - all symptoms i had are gone - feel totally normal again - tummy feels like it wants to start to AF - very very worried so we've booked a private scan for 5pm this afternoon - 3 days ahead of the official one as i'm just such a mess...

Will let you know what happens - i'm 6+5 today

KnackeredCow Mon 20-Aug-12 14:36:28

Zeebee hope all goes well today. It's so hard not to worry about lack of symptoms but I am sure everything is fine. It's ever so hard but try not to read too much in to it. Your beta levels were really good. I have everything crossed for you.

Cookie hope you're doing OK. You've made such a difficult decision but I wanted to wish you the very best.

Jumping how are things for you?

Well I'm 12 weeks on Wednesday and have my 12 week scan then too. In a bit of a state about it. I honestly think pregnancy after IVF is really tough. I keep expecting it to go wrong sad. Silly I know, but it's so hard to relax and enjoy it when everything about it is so medicalised.

CareBear and Fishfinger how are you both doing?

zeebee1 Mon 20-Aug-12 18:08:40

Thanks knackered - just back from the private scan...
Saw 1 little heart beat! Can't believe it. The relief is EPIC!
The sonographer thought that both embryos were a little bit on the small side but at this stage hopefully they will catch up to where they r supposed to be. No heartbeat detected on 2nd one as yet- but it's definately in the sac - so that was confOrting!
So no pregger signs = possible viable pregnancy still!!
I understand hOw nervous u must be feeling before wednesday - wishing you so much luck - its been FIne up til now hasn't it!

KnackeredCow Mon 20-Aug-12 21:13:10

Zeebee that's fabulous news! Don't worry about the size too much at this point. At my second scan they said they don't know why they bother as it's really too early to be accurate - one of mine looked a bit small too. However when they are so tiny it's difficult to measure them do not worth reading anything into it until the 12 week scan.

Good luck for Thursday! Hopefully they'll be able to pick up the second heartbeat then. You must be so relieved after today. I think waiting for that first scan after my beta at five weeks was the longest two weeks of my life. x

zeebee1 Wed 22-Aug-12 07:48:17

Good luck with your scan today knackered FX for you

jumpingjackhash Wed 22-Aug-12 14:52:16

Hi Zeebee, I just checked-in to wish you luck for tomorrow but see you've had one! YAY! smile Where did you have it? Are you still going for tomorrow's too? Good luck then!

Good luck to you too Knackered, or rather I hope all's well (as you'll probably have had it by the time you see this!).

My symptoms seem to have gone - or shifted - still have tender nips, but cramps have gone pretty much. I have had an outbreak of eczema in the last week or so though (not had this for years!) and have started to feel quite nauseous - not always like I'm going to be sick, just that awful 'icky' feeling. Is this normal? Should I be worrying?!

I'm so, so scared of it all going wrong again (had a dream last night I had a massive bleed that turned all of my clothes red sad). Already though we're a day or two further on than I managed last time. Any tips on getting through this anxiety?

I want my scan to come around quickly, but at the same time I'm dreading it in case they don't see anything.

zeebee1 Wed 22-Aug-12 15:35:12

Jumping! I'm with you there on the anxiety - Hence our decision to have a private scan on Monday. £150 later we were happy! It was worth it as alllll my preggers sympos had stopped last weekend and I was beside myself that once again there would be an empty sac on the scan - so on tears (I kid u not) we went to the London ultrasound centre in of course - Harley street and were seen.... 2 embryos were there - 1 heart beat seen only so hopefully tomorrow at our guys appt we might see another? Anyway still no sympos - worrying all the time about their size etc.. I Hav no idea how one deals with all the anxiety - booze? Oh no- we can't have that can we!
Sorry youve had eximer - is that something you sometimes get under stress? Can u find any naturelle things to soothe it with?

jumpingjackhash Wed 22-Aug-12 16:37:51

Hey there Zeebee. Did you have to wait long for an appointment at the London untrasound centre?

Re. the eczema, I posted on the pg boards and it seems it's not too uncommon for pg hormones to trigger it (I used to get it when tired or stressed, but aside from the m/c worries I'm not stressed at all!), someone recommended Aveeno, so I started using that last night and it's helping a lot already. I just want some other sign, like 'proper' morning sickness (hmm does that make me weird?!) or something to reassure me it's all OK in there and it's a 'normal' pregnancy!

Do you think we'll get to enjoy our pregnancies? Or are in in for 8 months of worry?! I fear it will be the latter!

At the moment I'm determined not to get too excited and start preparing too much (although did google maternity jeans last night blush). I just don't want to tempt fate.

jumpingjackhash Wed 22-Aug-12 16:39:18

PS Did you think that the time between the bfp and the viability scan is worse than the 2WW? You're even more full of hope that it's all going to plan...

zeebee1 Wed 22-Aug-12 17:36:17

Deffo jumping the wait before scan if you've had a bad experience before - like we both have is so much worse than 2ww I think.... We rang the London ultrasound clinic lunchtime on Monday and we got an appointment for 5pm that same day. Sounds like you are having some 'good' symptoms tho - like me I feel they've lessened.... Perhaps they will come back with a vengeance for both of us and we'll be eating our words! Maternity jeans... Bet they're sexy! wink I've got a wedding to go to in December - cant let myself google any maternity dresses for that yet.... Feels like tempting fate!,

KnackeredCow Wed 22-Aug-12 19:29:44

Jumping sorry to hear about the eczema - definitely likely to be linked to pregnancy. DH swears by Aveeno (he has eczema too) and I believe prescribes it for his patients quite regularly (DH is a GP). You can get it on prescription - industrial sized bottles which will save you £££s. And once you have your maternity exemption certificate you can get it for free grin.

Yes, the wait between the BFP and that first scan is horrendous. I think it was the longest two weeks of my life.

Zeebee really hope all goes well tomorrow!

AFM scan went well today. Nuchal translucency for both twins was within acceptable range so just got to wait for the results to be combined with my age and blood test results to give Down's risk, but so relieved everything looking good so far!

jumpingjackhash Wed 22-Aug-12 19:38:32

That's great Knackered! I thought you got all results there and then? Naive!

zeebee1 Wed 22-Aug-12 19:44:38

knackered such good news! Congrats you must be so relieved - another hurdle over!

KnackeredCow Wed 22-Aug-12 19:48:09

Really relieved! grin

Jumping apparently the blood tests results do come back quickly so if there's a problem the midwife will call within a few days or so.

KnackeredCow Thu 23-Aug-12 09:08:46

Good luck for today Zeebee! x

jumpingjackhash Thu 23-Aug-12 09:45:54

Good luck Zeebee!

Knackered, well I hope you get good news! Your DH is right about the Aveeno - it's magic cream! The itching has virtually disappeared and after just a couple of days the awful rash has just about gone too. I'll definitely be using it again!

I'm still frantically symptom spotting, but feeling slightly reassured that I've gone off the thought of eating chocolate completely (not like me at all! A bit of choccy is my best friend), infact I don't really fancy eating much even when I'm hungry (keep getting indigestion from the most basic foods!). The nausea is also hanging around - good sign I'm hoping!

Otherwise DH and I are just playing the waiting game... he keeps asking 'are you still pg?' hmm which REALLY isn't helping!

zeebee1 Thu 23-Aug-12 18:53:45

Hi jumping and knackered... oh i so wish I could post some happy news, but sadly I can't.... today I am 7+3 and our embryo with the heartbeat has not increased in size and is still measuring 6+1... the outlook is a bit bleak for us - the other embryo still has no heartbeat, so the nurse said that will probably just disappear in time.

Apparently at this time the embryo should be increasing in size everyday and if it's not then that is not good... we have another scan next Friday - but we've been told not to get our hopes up and at that scan there will also be a doctor present. I must say the scan equipment she used today was terrible in comparison to the Harley St one on Monday and she could barely make anything out for ages - we were a bit angry about this... just frustrating when someone is trying to tell you bad news but can't be sure of the measurements she's taking as the screen is so fuzzy.... grrr..

So DH and I came home and spent the rest of the afternoon feeling blue and telling various well wishing people that things aren;t looking so rosy anymore... jsut been to Sains and bought some nice dinner for tonight and stopped at an AMAZING cake shop on the way home and bough a GIGANTIC slice of coffee cake that I was craving... YUM.

Anyway might explain my loss of PG symptoms a bit - altho apparently they do come and go... anyway hope you are both doing OK and things are fine... will updaate you next Friday whatever the outcome, then will leave mumsnet for a bit I think..... thanks for your lovely support both of you smile hugely appreciated by DH & Me wink

jumpingjackhash Thu 23-Aug-12 20:27:25

Aw Zeebee, see how you get on with the next scan, you never know what might happen. What did they say about the size at Harley St? Thinking of you and rooting for Zeeblet to have a spurt x

zeebee1 Thu 23-Aug-12 20:39:25

Thanks jumping.... They were concerned at H St too but DH and I just so overjoyed to see a heartbeat we didn't really pay attention to the sonographer's concerns!

KnackeredCow Fri 24-Aug-12 07:51:24

Oh Zeebee I am so sorry things aren't looking so promising. Let's cross our fingers that our LO hangs in there.

The difference in ultrasound equipment is remarkable. I had a similar thing at my ACU. At my 8+5 scan one of mine measured 7+6 but they told me not to worry. Ultrasound is accurate only to within a week either side and like with you it was all quite fuzzy at ACU. There was a massive difference at 12 week scan. The equipment in antenatal clinic next door was new and images crystal clear. DH mentioned it to sonographer who said as technology moves so fast antenatal clinic update theirs every 2-3 years. And then I assume the ones they no longer need are reallocated to other hospital departments.

Zeebee I'm crossing everything that your LO has a growth spurt and all is fine on Friday. x

KnackeredCow Sat 01-Sep-12 12:54:25

Jumping hope things are good with you. Just wanted to wish you the very best for your scan - it's Tuesday isn't it, iirc?

zeebee1 Sun 02-Sep-12 21:22:18

Hi all
Just a farewell message from me sadly..
We lost both fetus' - devastating. I'm now waiting for a date for the inevitable d&c op. might be on my 40th birthday (4th sept) - oh how depressing!
They seem to have got smaller and smaller as the weeks went on, and guys hospital say it was most probably a missed miscarriage. Fairly common. Doesn't make it ANY easier to deal with.
We don't know which way to turn now.. We were forced to cancel our holiday to NYC for my birthday as too dangerous to be abroad with the possibility of starting to bleed... So all in all a crappy few days.
Knackered and jumping I wish you both so much good luck in your journeys. Right now I'm leaving MN and giving myself a break from all this IvF stuff .
Keep well and happy and jumping - good luck with the scan on the 4th
Zb x

jumpingjackhash Tue 04-Sep-12 06:20:42

Oh Zeebee, just saw your update. So sorry this happened, don't blame you from taking a break from MN. Hope the procedure goes as well as can be expected, maybe re-book the birthday trip for later as a distraction? Take care of yourself xxx

zeebee1 Tue 04-Sep-12 13:35:18

Thanks jumping - pls let me know how your scan goes today. Fingers crossed for some great news for you smile

jumpingjackhash Tue 04-Sep-12 13:38:13

Thanks Zeebee - hope you're being looked after on your birthday! x

jumpingjackhash Tue 04-Sep-12 16:17:12

No heartbeat, just a black blob on the scan. Feel empty (oh the irony) and betrayed by my body for letting me have all these symptoms while it's not 'working'.

Feel like shit. I think. Not really sure, to be honest. Just know all of the happiness I felt 24hours ago has gone.

ScarlettInSpace Tue 04-Sep-12 16:47:25

Oh jumping sorry to dive into the thread unannounced but I was looking out for your update after you kindly posted on my ivf thread, so so sorry to hear that, look after yourself xx

ScarlettInSpace Tue 04-Sep-12 16:51:20

PS/ is there a chance that it could be a late developer wrt hb? Or have they said its not developing at all? Just hoping there is some hope if you know what i mean, as its too easy to see the worst sometimes x

KnackeredCow Tue 04-Sep-12 16:53:35

Oh Jumping and Zeebee, I am so very, very sorry to hear that it's been such awful news for both of you. I don't know what to say - I can't think of anything useful.

Take all the time you need to get over this. I had to take time off work after my second failed round. If it's any consolation all I can say is that failure this time doesn't mean it will never work. Assisted conception is a really tough journey to make.

Thinking of you both. x

jumpingjackhash Tue 04-Sep-12 16:54:22

Thanks Scarlett, sadly no, we asked if there was a chance it was hiding or just too soon, but we could see a black sac with nothing. So stopping the progesterone pessaries now, and we just wait for it all to come out. sad

jumpingjackhash Tue 04-Sep-12 17:01:05

Thanks Knackered, I don't know how many more times we can do it. I know it's too soon to have this kind of conversation, but I think if we go for it with our 2 frosties, that might be our last attempt.

The clinic keep saying 'it will happen, it just takes time' but I'm not sure they really and truly understand what it takes to go through it physically and emotionally, let alone the financial burden (the reality is we can't afford to do this a million times!). I guess they see it so much but when it's you it's 'real' and the most important thing in your world at the time. I appreciate I'm being unreasonable here with my assumption of their understanding, but hearing 'you just keep going, it will happen' sounds hollow, patronising and unrealistic at the moment!

KnackeredCow Tue 04-Sep-12 17:10:29

Jumping, I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Being told it will happen is patronising, I agree. The reality is that although it does happen for most women over four rounds it doesn't for all. It's soul destroying when it fails and is horrifically expensive and emotionally and physically draining. A crystal ball is the only thing that would probably be useful for you right now, unfortunately x

bugsylugs Tue 04-Sep-12 20:08:38

zeebee, and jumping I am so sorry for your heartbreaking news. This journey can be so so cruel. Time out, hugs and care with your other halves. No words of wisdom as really I do not think there are any but it is rubbish. We are still plucking up the courage to go again.

Thinking of you both and wishing you some peace

jumpingjackhash Tue 04-Sep-12 20:32:55

Thanks Bugsy. I don't know how I'd get through this whole thing without mn. Do you think you'll go again?

zeebee1 Wed 05-Sep-12 16:56:25

Jumping - absolutely DEVASTATED to hear your sad news - oh how SH*T.
You must be feeling so upset and numb with shock... it certainly takes a while to feel normal emotions again - i can understand how sad and angry you and your DH must be feeling... Did Guys treat you gently after you had your scan? we found them to be very nice and they consoled us and also suggested i pass the empty sac naturally rather than have the D&C... (this was after our first IVF fresh round didn't work) I was all for waiting for it to pass, but it seemed to take AGES and after about 10 days still nothing - no blood, nothing. Then I had some sever crampy type pains at about 2 weeks after but still nothing passed - so i booked for a D&C... it sort of felt better to then know the sac was out completely and I wouldnt be still waiting around at home for it to pass (or not!) anyway I jsut wanted to tell you my experience of "waiting for it to pass naturally"
I have a D&C booked for tomorrow, so at least I know what i'm in for this time - the worst part I think is having the injection in your wrist then you are out for the count and that's it... well - that's almost it wink I think I bleed for about a week after the last D&C in november....
I was also called up by thomas' to go in for a TABLET trial - where they test your level of thyroid as apparently they are thinking that this could be something linked to miscarriages.... you would have to take some medication if the thyroid level is not right - so im not too sure how I would feel about this as I would be taking so many drugs with IVF anyway next round...
Yes, next round - can't believe we are already plotting thiss - infact we think we will give the FET another go as soon as we can this year. read in the paper today that FET embryos are much stronger than fresh IVF embryos (?!) hey ho.. onwards... anyway sending you lots of postive thoughts JUMPING - so difficult to think ahead at this time isn't it - it will get better - the pain.

zeebee1 Wed 05-Sep-12 16:58:56

ps - Bugsy so nice to hear from you - how are you doing? THnak you for your kind kind words
knackered you too - your words mean so much - I hope you are doing well - you are such an inspiration on this thread...

zeebee1 Wed 05-Sep-12 17:01:01

pps - I can HIGHLY recommend a night at Babbington House in Somerset to get your mind of IVF/Conception/loss etc... DH took me there for my birthday last night and we had a wonderful time - spa, outdoor heated pool, lovely grounds, delicious food and we even did a bike ride this morning! smile Maybe turnign 40 hasn't been ALL bad!

jumpingjackhash Wed 05-Sep-12 17:45:58

Glad you had a nice birthday treat Zeebee, your DH is a gem!

I'm worried that my DH feels he has to get through this on his own, I've tried talking to him and suggested he posts in Dadsnet if he wants some anonymous support. Guys were lovely indeed, suggested counselling, which sounds like a good idea and has now been booked (5 Oct first avail appointment, that seems so far away!).

I'm going to wait for it to all leave me naturally (like last time, although it took me by surprise then and was the first we knew of the loss). They've said if it doesn't happen in the next 2 weeks then to call them for another scan and to discuss options. I hope it happens soon, can't bear this being stretched out for weeks! I stopped the pessaries last night, have had a little very mild cramping today and pretty constant nausea, it still doesn't quite feel real yet.

Have spent the day lolling around with DH, went for a lovely walk on the common and had lunch in a cute 'country' pub, so feeling slightly more balanced! We managed to have a bit of a 'what next?' chat, we want tests to rule out any major mc causes (thyroid as you said, any other blood or gene issues etc), then will go for fet, probably as soon as we reasonably can. More icsi is something we really need to think about, at the moment it's not something I'm keen on, but it's far too early to be thinking that far ahead I guess.

zeebee1 Wed 05-Sep-12 18:57:18

Hi jumping indeed - my DH found it really hard last time around with no "mumsnet" type chat forum for him to go onto... the best thing he did last time was to take a week off work to jsut come to terms with the loss and anger he was feeling about the situation... this time of course we'd both booked this week off for our holiday so we have spent everyday together chatting about things, seeing close friends who know and spending time with our parents (altho they do tend to say the MOST insensitive things at times without realising...). I think for men it is a lot tougher to deal with miscarrige - it's all been about our bodies up til then, and they feel helpless that they can't feel any of the physical pain for us I guess... also I don't know about you but I feel like I'm a failure this time round - like i've let him down - crazy really, but I really do think it - time away from home and life is a great way to deal with it together I think....

CareBear1 Thu 06-Sep-12 22:34:12

Hi ZB and Jumping, just read your updates, am so very sorry. How awful, I think this kind of thing should not be allowed after such hard won pgs. Sending you massive hugs. And just a reminder that even a few weeks of time passing makes all the difference. Thinking of you.

Bickies Fri 07-Sep-12 17:12:35

Hello, My sister who is 40 yrs old has just gone through her 3rd IVF and is now waiting to do her preg test on Sunday coming however she has had some spotting (pinkish). She rang her clinic and they said to drink lots of water however she is very worried as am I, for her. The clinic planted two embyros. Has anyone been through the spotting and still gone on to have a baby or is this just false hope.. Please let me know as she had a difficult time with the last two failed attempts and it would be excellent if someone out there had a success story. Many thanks, Bickies.

Bickies Fri 07-Sep-12 17:15:13

Bickies Fri 07-Sep-12 17:12:35
Hello, My sister who is 40 yrs old has just gone through her 3rd IVF and is now waiting to do her preg test on Sunday coming however she has had some spotting (pinkish). She rang her clinic and they said to drink lots of water however she is very worried as am I, for her. The clinic planted two embyros. Has anyone been through the spotting and still gone on to have a baby or is this just false hope.. Please let me know as she had a difficult time with the last two failed attempts and it would be excellent if someone out there had a success story. Many thanks, Bickies.

KnackeredCow Fri 07-Sep-12 17:29:44

Bickies - Yes, I had a three day bleed between 12 and 14 days after egg collection (one week after my embryos were transferred) and really thought it was all over. It was my third cycle of IVF too and I'm now 14 weeks and 2 days with twins.

Your sister's bleeding could be implantation bleeding, like I had. If it's dark blood it's old and that's OK. If it's bright red it's fresh and that's more concerning. Not sure why the clinic's told her to drink lots of fluid. That won't really help with the bleeding, but it will help if they're worried she's hyper-stimulated.

Care, Jumping and Zeebee - how are you all holding up? Thinking of you all at this time.

DesperatelyHoping Fri 07-Sep-12 18:10:34

Bickies - I will share my story in a minute but I had loads and loads of spotting - could be an implantation bleed or anything. Not to worry - tell her just to wait for the test and try to relax (Much easier said than done, I know!)xxx

I'm just coming on here to share my story with you - I was trying for 7 years and no glimmer of anything. Went on holiday, got a positive pg test and then discovered at 8 weeks that it was a blighted ovum and there was no baby.

We were determined not to wait another 7 years so embarked on fertility investigations and had an unsuccessful round of IUI. Discovered I had v high FSH and low AMH and male factor issues too. Embarked on IVF. Had an unsuccessful round where they got 10 eggs but only two were left on day 3 and they were v low quality.

Had another go, got 12 eggs this time, still only two left on day 3 but they were reasonable quality. That time both took and I got pg with twins. Sadly I lost them at 20 weeks after premature rupture of membranes and an infection so they had to induce them.

I was devastated and gutted and was convinced I couldn't go through that again but I changed my mind and we had another cycle. This time they only got 5 eggs and only 3 were mature. I was devastated, especially given the failure rate of the other cycles. However, there were still two left on day 3 - one good quality, one poor quality. I had both put back in and one of them took. My daughter is now nearly 5 months old and the most precious thing on the planet.

But I recently stopped breastfeeding and on the return of my cycles I got pregnant naturally on the first cycle. It turned out to be a chemical pregnancy and I only discovered that yesterday, but it gives me hope that it might happen again.

Good luck to all of you - it takes a lot out of you but it's worth it in the end and it can work despite you thinking the odds might be stacked against you xxx

Sorry for all of you with losses. It is heartbreaking, especially after everything we go through to get pg in the first place. <hugs>

AuntieGaga Fri 07-Sep-12 19:02:22

Thanks Bickies for bringing this up and to KnackeredCow and DesperatelyHoping for giving me some encouragement. I'm on day 13 post transfer and have some watery 'red' appearing. I'm hoping it is just spotting but obviously bit nervous. I'm new to the site and I have to say it is excellent, very encouraging with everyone wishing good things for each other. AuntieGaga

Bickies Fri 07-Sep-12 19:03:13

KnackeredCow' and DesperatelyHoping', THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH for sharing your positive experiences! I have relayed them to my sister and she feels so much better. I have one question from my sister,.. did either of you experience those, I'm getting my period symtoms..tender breasts, tummy dragging feeling and so on...?
Again, many thanks and much appreciated!

KnackeredCow Fri 07-Sep-12 19:17:49

Yes - I had those symptoms. Lots of lower abdominal cramping - like my period was going to start and sore breasts. The sore breasts will be due to the progesterone. Your body would normally naturally produce this, but following IVF it doesn't so that's why you need the pessaries. So yes, symptoms should be similar to before your period regardless of whether you are pregnant or not.

Bickies Fri 07-Sep-12 19:20:03

Sorry, I mean't my sister is.... getting period symtoms.. and not me. I wanted to point that out to you both so you wouldn't think I was lying and pretending it was my sister going through it all. You are all fabulous girls and have been through so much, yeez should be proud of yourselves! Hugs, Bickies.

DesperatelyHoping Fri 07-Sep-12 19:21:53

Oh yes - was so sure period was about to start and then the spotting - was convinced there was no chance. Many many pg tests later I finally accepted that I was pg!

Bickies Fri 07-Sep-12 19:26:40

Sooooo happy for you! Hugs, Bickies

bugsylugs Fri 07-Sep-12 23:59:51

ZB and jumping how you are getting some down time and treats one day at a time,

Am going to be away for 10 days but you will all be in my thoughts

zeebee1 Sat 08-Sep-12 08:32:58

Thanks everyone. Really really appreciate your thoughts at such an awful time. Had the d&c on Thursday - all went fine - hardly bled at all afterwards - I think because the little ones had absorbed
Back into my body.... Feel a bit stronger each day - weather helps in times like these. We have a long standing appointment with dr ndukwe at zita west clinic next Wednesday- he's supposed to be a lead consultant in array cgh testing. So we will meet with him and see what his thougts are re our journey so far.... We are thinking we will do an FET round before Christmas maybe... Thank you for telling us your success story desparatelyhoping - very inspiring tO read. Hello to care - hOpe u are ok?
Bugsy - have a nice few days away. X

KnackeredCow Sat 08-Sep-12 10:05:47

Zeebee pleased to here that Thursday went as smoothly as it could.

Think your approach re array CGG sounds very sensible.

Just a thought, but have you thought your uterus might be super-receptive? I was just wondering because that might explain why your embryos are implanting but not developing. Just a thought. I had a total of 5 embryos put back over three cycles. First one was a v. early m/c at 4+2 so my body rejected it pretty pronto, I assume because there must have been something wrong. Neither of second two even implanted and they were both good / reasonable. And another in between failed to thaw, so I assume something wrong with that one too. So, out of a total of 6 ( if you include the failed thaw) only 2 were "normal" enough to make babies. Sorry, I don't mean this in a negative light, more that it might well work in the future when you get the "right" embryo put back, but perhaps your uterus is super-receptive so ones that wouldn't normally implant are.

Anyway, here's the article I saw on "unfussy uterus" if you're interested.


I hope what I'm saying isn't upsetting, just trying to think why you might be having recurrent miscarriages sad

Cosmos1 Sat 08-Sep-12 22:11:55

DesperatelyHoping thank you so much for sharing your story. Its my 5 yr ttc anniversary around now and having mhcg failed a 3rd ivf round have had several days of wondering whats next. So helpful to read a success story makes me feel less stupid for still not wanting to give up!

ZB thinking of you, what a horrible experience. Hope you're ok, keep strong. Same to you Jumping how you feeling now?

I've been brewing some Chinese herbs as something to do whole I recover a bit. I still have a huge bloated pot belly from the meds.

DesperatelyHoping where did you do your IVF?

DesperatelyHoping Sun 09-Sep-12 07:41:52

Cosmos -I used the London women's clinic. They were great. Don't have as long a waiting list as Lister or ARGC which is why I chose them, but they are lovely.

lumili Sat 15-Sep-12 12:24:18

Hi everyone I have been away for a while and I have just been catching up on all the posts.....

Jumping and Zeebee I am so sorry to read your sad news, I hope you are both doing as well as can be expected.

Knackered I am so pleased to read about your pregnancy and the fact that it is twins, I am so happy for you.


KnackeredCow Sat 15-Sep-12 12:48:42

Welcome back lumili so good to see you again! Hope you are doing OK? x

lumili Sat 15-Sep-12 12:58:11

Knackered, I am god thanks. Will message you x

lumili Sat 15-Sep-12 12:58:58

I don't think I am god smile I meant good x

Raspberryjam Sat 29-Sep-12 23:35:41

Hi Ladies,
It has been such a long time since I posted - needed a bit of a break from things . I managed to find this thread and was catching up on the posts . I am so, so thrilled for you Knackered - hope you are feeling well. Really wonderful news.
Hi to Lumili and to Jumping and Zee - thinking of all of you xxx

lumili Fri 05-Oct-12 09:57:38

Hi Raspberry nice to hear from you. How are things with you? What have you been upto? Hope you are well.

Where has everyone gone???


Raspberryjam Wed 10-Oct-12 18:20:23

Hi Lumili !
Things good thanks . DD started school now and loving it. Decided to have a break from Ivf after last one before Easter . I was a crazy person for a while afterwards - u know, crying, exhausted, flying off the handle. Hard to take time to cry when a little person around . Enjoyed the summer and made the most of things as she may be our only . Feel better about that now, although mulling over whether to have one last go . .......
How r u???? What have u been up to. ?Good to have a catch up . Xxx

zeebee1 Thu 11-Oct-12 16:50:40

Hi all - little catch up from me... thanks for your kind words everyone.
Everyday seems and feels a bit better but I still get jolts of pain when a friend reveals she's PG or when I realize my dear MIL has spread our fertility issues around the WHOLE extended family etc etc! anyway that's for a diffrernt thread!

So we had our lost twins analysed and it turns out there was nothing wrong with them chormasonally (sp?) so that was good to know - but also sad.

We've since had Chicago tests done at Zita West clinic via Dr Ndukwe and had the results for those - seems i'm anemic, Vit D deficient and need various things to boost my body before EC and prior to ET... also I will be on double pessaries after ET this time... we are hoping to do a fresh IVF round in january - think we will move from Guys to Zita West for this new round.

We have 3 on ice still at Guys which are all good quality blastos so that;s good, altho because of my old age we will go for fresh round as it's more hopefully of success!

Phew - so how is everyone else doing?

Raspberryjam Thu 11-Oct-12 21:36:19

Hi Zee,
So sorry you are having such a hard time . You are anything but a failure BTW . It sounds like u r being very strong by trying to find a way forward through this. Apparently majority of uk population are vit d deficient . I take 2500 international units to 3500 a day .
Look up writing by Oliver Gillie ....
Hope it starts to feel less painful soon. As for MILs.... What can I say ?X

JosieSmith1 Tue 06-Nov-12 18:35:41

Hi everyone, you probably don't remember me it's been so long since I was on!

Haven't had a proper catch up as there's way too much, but from what I can gather, ZB and Jumping I am so sorry, please both look after yourselves.

Not a lot of news from me, in my 2ww of first ICSI after failed IUI back in April. Got my test on Friday, absolutely dreading it and preparing myself for the worst. On the plus side, this was a short protocol IVF and I responded slightly better than last time in that I had 6 eggs at EC, 4 didn't fertilise so we had both remaining, low grade embryos put back. Started a new job which I'm loving, with a very synpathetic and supportive senior so that's good, and it's very busy, which takes my mind off things.

Anyway, I probably won't be back for a while so just wanted to pop in and say hi xx

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now