New Thread: http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/851417-Assisted-conception-and-the-bits-in-between-part-4-all ?rnd=1256758793249

Please can someone teach me how to set up a proper linking page to the new thread that I have just started? [confused and slightly useless emoticon]

nanoo you minx - I've been waiting all day for your news... I KNEW IT!! Huge congratulations to you and here's hoping that little embryo knows what's best for it and stays PUT!

You must be all trembly with excitement/trepidation...

How are things with DH now? Does he know it's testing day today? I'm not sure I could keep it to myself but then I would never have made it this far without testing either!

AMAZING news. Actually, I can't believe it. I haven't told anyone yet - can barely write it here. But you guys have been so supportive, I just had to share it with you. BFP !!!!

I found the guts to test this morning while I was still too sleepy to think too hard. I only used the little unbranded stick the clinic gave me - that's all I've done so far. I'm planning to double check tomorrow morning with a proper clearblue one - so will have all my fingers and toes crossed again. Trying not to think beyond the next few days just to get through it. So nervous of mc. Please stick please stick please stick....

DH still in US on business, not back til next Wed. Don't know if I should tell him over the phone (especially as some of you might remember he was SO horrible to me last week - not sure he deserve to know yet!).

How are you MummyCat- any news from the consultant? Really hope your Dh isn't right and the cycle isn't abandoned - surely it's just a readjustment of dosage?

Great you went to the doc MamaChris - and it's a good way to look at it - the embryo clearly survived much longer than you thought

mummycat - let us know what the googling suggests... I would try to ensure you speak to the consultant today. Although OHSS is very treatable, if it IS that then you need to step down the dose of Gonal F straight away.

nanoo - thinking of you this morning and hoping it's good news xxx

MamaChris - sorry I forgot to say last night but well done for going to the docs yesterday. I'm glad you're feeling positive about it; think I might have been the same in a weird way.

isle - how are you feeling at the moment?

And sooty - yay for the three follicles... I shall share in your mild optimism for now. I'm feeling a bit more chipper today; DH won approximately one million husband brownie points yesterday by surprising me with a home cooked meal of fillet steak, mange tout, and caramelised wild mushrooms with shallots! (Only those who know him will appreciate this is tantamount to his crossing the Atlantic in a canoe in terms of effort/achievement) - he rushed it to the hospital all wrapped up and with a lovely bottle of wine and all accoutrements. I'd had such a shite day it was perfect timing and we had a nice evening here squashed onto the hospital bed watching Mad Men...

Had second stimming scan this morning and it's even crazier than last time! Womb lining has more than doubled in two days 7mm on Mon and now 15mm. There are now 41 follicles in total all at around the 1cm mark! 25 on the right and 16 on the left plus the one that was already there before I started stimming - this one now measures 2.5cm! I asked for some advice and the nurse said that they will call me later and that the consultant will be reviewing things this time - so who reviewed it last time?

The nurse was clearly shocked by that amount of follies and said that she thinks they will lower my dose of Gonal F. I am only on 150 anyway.

Feeling rather concerned about what seems like an over-reaction by my body. DH says he is surprised that they haven't abandoned this cycle already - not that he really knows anything - just feeling alarmed I think. Am off to research...

(((hugs))) nanoo

sooty good news on the follies, congrats so far! Bad idea to teach after EC, but then you know what it's like, so I'll defer to your judgement (can you do me a favor and just youtube your class so we can see how the meds effect your teaching abilities???)

Seriously - I wish you truckloads of luck on this one. I would love it if all of the stars aligned just right for you.

xx

Will keep checking back for nanoonews!
(I think a BFP would be a great way to end this thread and start AC #4)

Nanoo I can't believe you haven't tested . .. but it is sounding postive. LL I don't think I've ever had a canula but it sounds awful to be tied to the bed by both hands. I'm not surprised you are being a crybaby - it must be really hard being in a foreign country and generally 'alone'.

I had my first scan today and I am midly optmistic, two on the left and one on the right. This is quite good for me and the good news is that it is on both sides because I never seem to produce more than one egg per side no matter what the number each side.

The headaches have developed into a full blown head cold, so at least I now know I am not a recovering alcoholic! Almost fell asleep in class today (not a good look). Am also starting to worry that EC is going to happen 7 days from now which would be very annoying as it is my last class - I tried to get an idea which of the students could reschedule today and there was no consensus. If it falls on next wednesday I might just have to teach after EC!

Nanoo all the best for your test tomorrow, either way, we'll be here to cheer for you!!!

Argggh am I a bad mother-to-be... managed through sniffling to convince doctors to leave the iron drip for another week - they are upping my iron tabs to see how I get on first. Wish I was more stoic but glad to hear I'm not the only one phased by canulas. I don't think it helps that I've convinced them all I'm terrified and I can see no-one wants to have to give me a canula now... am the Difficult English Patient!

nanoo - thinking of you for tomorrow; think you've done so well during the 2ww and have everything crossed for you.

mummycat - that is a lot of follicles. I have no experience of such a plentitude but would think if they haven't mentioned OHSS to you then I wouldn't worry. From what (little) I know of it it tends to develop later in the cycle, particularly after ET, but of course having a lot of follicles is an early indicator. If you're worried though do ask your clinic about it tomorrow... will be thinking of you too and hoping the scan goes well. Also great to hear your DH "letting slip" how much he wants this too... like blood out of a stone sometimes, eh?

gingerwine - it's hard not to panic about what's going to happen at EC - until you hear from them what magic number they managed to collect, it feels like it could all be for nowt. I think at this stage though it's worth remembering that it's very UNUSUAL for most of the follicles to be empty and at this stage you have no evidence that this will happen to you. My first cycle I got 7 eggs from 8 follies; my second gave 4 from 6.

Right. Spose I'd better get off to bed... getting a bit sick of this single hospital bed lark - typically we'd just bought a super kingsize bed with new fluffy duvet and pillows and Egyptian cotton bed linen. And am I getting to enjoy it?!!!

MamaChris so glad that you are looking at this positively. Have been thinking about you since last night's post.

Sooty I agree with GW about the water - I'm finding it really helpful.

Good luck Nanoo - I know you don't want to burst your bubble, but knowing either way will alleviate the stress somewhat.

Canulas are horrid LL I've had quite a few in my time and imo they are worse that childbirth. Or for me they were the worst part. I had to have an antibiotic drip as I had open heart surgery when I was 16. Oh, that's made me think - I'd better mention it to the clinic as I will probably need a drip during EC especially if I'm under general anesthetic.

Well, I am surprised and confused by the amount of follies spotted and counted on Monday - 31 in total. Does this mean that I am experiencing some sort of hyperstimulation of the ovaries? Or is it a sign of PCOS? Could it possibly be linked to my amazing acupuncturist? again...

I guess I'll know more at second scan which is tomorrow morning early! Am sure there will be yet more blood taking too

Am feeling happier generally as DH made a comment this morning which made me realise that he wants this so much, but is scared to admit that even to himself.

thanks for all your messages everyone. I went to the GP this morning, who said it did look like an embryo. So I'm not mad, which is good. And there are positives: I had thought 4 or 5 of my good day 3 embryos made it to blast only to lyse within hours. The one they transferred only made it to blast within the two hours before ET, and was very early stage (grade 1), but it obviously did manage to survive, which would suggest my embryos can make it past blastocyst, they just need to be in me and not a petri dish This is very positive for our next try.

nanoo I do understand the fear of testing. In some ways I've often felt the 2ww is the nearest I come to being pregnant (it's like Shroedinger's cat: if you don't test/open the box, you don't know you're not). Test if you want, but, if you are pregnant, then not testing won't change that, iykwim. So test when you're ready to know: there's no rush.

ll hope the new canula went in ok. short medical things like this, I try and "drift" - close my eyes, steady deep breathing, try and detach myself from my body - the concentration involved seems to lessen any sensations. Do you think it might help to try this? (Or do I sound like too much of a hippy?!)

gw it really is quality not quantity. My friend had exactly one egg retrieved on maximum dose of drugs; it fertilised, and she is now 38 weeks pregnant. I got 14 eggs, 9 fertilised, and now very unpregnant. You just need one, and 6 follies should make more than one egg, easily

sooty hope the headaches clear up very soon. water is the key, I think.

Hi girls.

mamachris - Hope you're ok and you managed to get hold of someone at the clinic. Thinking of you.

Sooty - Sorry to hear about headaches. That was me last week. I found drinking huge amounts of water really helpful (2.5 to 3 litres a day seem to do the trick). Does mean I spend a lot of time on the loo though!
Hope they go away anyway. Constant headaches really get me down so I can appreciate how you feel. Are you having a scan soon?

nanoo - I can't believe you've held out this long to test. It's only one more day now. I can understand though that you want to put off a negative whilst there is still hope. As others have said though you have done well to get this far with no bleeding so be brave and do that test tomorrow. We will all be thinking of you. ((Hugs))

Thanks lottie - Yes I keep reminding myself 'quality not quantity'. Then of course I have a panic and imagine that they get no eggs at EC or just one poor quality one. I should just not think about it but we all know that's not easy! I can completely understand what you say about being tearful with all of this. I too have never really had any health issues and have discovered I am a complete wimp! With childbirth I was fine, pretty stoical really, but this is totally different. I am already worrying about having an anaesthetic for EC and I can assure you I would be just the same as you in your situation. Just remember you are also very hormonal, and perfectly entitled to feel the way you do. As nanoo said it will be worth it. Now we have had so much trouble conceiving I treasure the memories of holding my newborn DS's so much. Hang on in there.

GW

Thanks LL, the dreadful night was fretting over testing. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Can't bear the pain of it being negative. Am so cross with myself for being so irrational/emotional . Will try tomorrow - will be at my parents house, so who knows, maybe a change of bathroom....

Please don't worry about the new canula - it's all good, it means you're being looked after - the doc knows best. You're safe where you are. And so are your little ones :-) I promise it's gonna be so worth it

MamaChris - you poor thing. I have no advice to add but so sorry you had to go through finding something like that.

nanoo - why the dreadful night? I am quietly confident for you... 14 days after what, a 2 day transfer - it's looking promising, you have to admit! The progesterone seems to affect people differently but most people would have started bleeding by now even with the progesterone supps, were it to be a negative. Can't believe you've held off testing - amazing - you MUST do one tomorrow!!!!

gingerwine - great news about the endometrium and the 6 follies... keeping fingers crossed the good news continues. Such a cliche I know but it's quality not quantity - at my first scan they only found one follie on the left ovary and three on the right... that increased a little by the end but I still only got 4 eggs. So six at this stage is great.

mummyc - well done for your scan results too... impressed with your healthy living during stimming!

sooty - have the headaches gone yet? I rarely get headaches but one thing I'm learning about myself in this hospital stay is that I'm a LOUSY patient, mainly because I think I haven't actually really had to deal with any health issues in life so far. I'm a complete baby and cry all the time here - it's embarrassing - this morning the doctor told me they wanted to put another canula in my other hand so they can give me an iron infusion as well as the canula that is giving me the anti-contraction drugs. Cue bottom lip quivering like mad. Pathetic!

Had a dreadful night. Was feeling so bad for you "MamaChris" - but pleased that your DP was with you and you've decided to bury it and put it behind you. Brave you. x

Sooty, probably a rubbish thing for me to say, but I do think that our battle to become Mums will have a huge impact on our parenting. Not necessary better or worse, just different. Having waited for 7 years for DS, once he arrived I wanted to be his Mum and nothing else. I gave up my career (I always wonder if I would have done that if he had come easily), found it really hard to leave him in a nursery (I tried and failed) and every day am SO SO grateful he exists. I never take him for granted. Maybe I spoil him - he's my world. Probably unhealthy, but I had to fight so hard for him.

Today is Tuesday, I'm meant to be testing tomorrow morning according to the clinic. There's no way I'm going to be able to. I'm not brave enough. (I half planned to do a test this morning, as it's Day 14 since ET, I thought I'd just check - but I woke up in such a state about it). Anyone else experienced this? It all feels so final. After so long! If I didn't test, would it matter? (ie are there any other drugs to take once the clinic know either way are there?)

Mamachris how traumatic! Goodness I always thought my clinic were being over cautious when they insist on coming in for a pregnancy test regardless of your period . . . I understand why you don't want to delay your next cycle though. If it helps my Dr is happy to go back to back with me as I don't really stimulate much - in fact she thinks it could be useful. But she did say if I was producing lots of follicles she wouldn't - I can't remember how many you had?

LL bad news about having to stay, but in some ways it must be reassuring. I wonder what effect it has on future parenting that it is so difficult for us lot to have babies, some people just pop them out. . . these days when I read about people in the past having twelve or so children it really makes me stop and think . .

Great to hear from you Duplo and congrats on the HB. Keep posting until I finish this cycle please . . . . it's my last attempt and I was so suprised you were the success last time (no offence but the two of us did seem to be the least likely candidates of the group) that it has given me new hope. Also, although in some ways I echo LL view about a new vaccine, you might like to know it is being made available to EVERYONE in Oz free of charge, so there must be a fairly high level of confidence in the safety of the vaccine I would say. I think it depends on your work environment/travel arrangements.

GW looks like you are heading to EC pretty soon . . and Mummycat sounds like you are responding well . . . hang in there Nanoo, am still crossing fingers.

My headaches are still around, and it can't be caffiene because I haven't given that up. I used to have a serious addiction when I worked in resturants and gave it up for years, now I have a very strict one a day rule, which from what I've read is okay . . . so it can't be that. I did read on the googlegod that you are more likely to experience withdrawal from alcohol after repeated withdrawals . . . which as I usually don't drink at all after ET would make some sense . . .who knows? It's not like I am a heavy drinker, but I am consistently moderate and am no fan of alcohol free days . . then again it could be the drugs but then I have had them before. Also it could be the acupuncture? Who knows but I wish THEY WOULD GO AWAY! Am swallowing paracetamol like there is no tomorrow . . .

MamaChris I know you must be a wreck! The hardest moment I had in my WHOLE LIFE was going to the store to buy zip-top baggies to put the bits from my ectopic/mc in - The doctors do advise that you put in a baggie and put in fridge (NOT FREEZER) so that they can run tests on it to see if there are "products of conception" as awful as that sounds, it could help this from occuring again if they know what happened this time.

I'm so so sorry for you - just put one foot in front of the other and hug DP a lot!

Take care!

Oh mamachris - that's awful. I agree with mummycat, it would be worth showing one of the nurses. Could you put it in something sealed and put it in the fridge? Then ring your clinic in the morning and ask for their advice. What a horrible thing to happen, especially when you've already been through the failed cycle. (((Hugs))) from me also and look after yourself.

Duplo - Great to hear from you again. So glad things are going ok. Just keep doing what you're doing and stay positive. I'm sure I would be very anxious in the same circumstances. It is so hard so early on. There are so many milestones to reach. Feeling sick and funny about food is definately a good sign. Thanks for advice on ejaculation too. We will act on that.

Thankyou lottie, duplo, caitni and nanoo - Your wise words have helped me feel a bit more calm about the injections today. Hopefully only two more days of them left too.

nanoo - It's nearly tuesday! I don't think lack/presence of symptoms means anything. The pessaries cause so many pregnancy symptoms it must be hard to worh out what's what. Well done for getting this far. Everything is crossed for you here.

Wow mummycat - That's fantastic. What a lovely lot of follies. Makes my 6 look a bit of a poor show, (though with an AMH of 4 I know my 6 are better than expected). When will you be due for EC? It looks like mine will be on Friday. Mmmmm Green and Blacks - yummy. I want some now!!

Lottie - Sorry to hear you won't be escaping yet. Great news about your girls though. Knowing what they weigh must really make it all so real. I so want the next 10 weeks to go quickly for you (although I have a lot of christmas shopping to do so not too quickly!!). Good luck with any more mozzy swatting!!

yes dp is here. we've wrapped it in paper, will take it somewhere local to bury tomorrow. I am sure what it is though, having looked again. In my job I see lots of such pictures, just this is the first real one.

may be stupid, but am not going to tell clinic. if I hadn't noticed, if it had just fell down the toilet, I feel it would have been much better. hoping that tomorrow we will be back in that place. when we saw the doc after last week, he said they want one natural bleed between cycles. I'll have another one end november before baselines in January, so think it will be ok.

Oh MamaChris I can't believe it - you poor love. It isn't unheard of to bleed in early pregnancy - even if it mc at a later date (if you think that's the case). So shocking for you - and after everything you've been through. Definitely speak to someone at your clinic asap. Don't worry about the smell (I would just seal it in a box) much better to find out so you know for future treatment. Hope there's someone there with you to look after you - be brave, big hug x

Thanks MC. Have kept it for now, but thinking I need to do something with it. It will smell otherwise, won't it?

Oh Mama I don't know honey. You have to talk to a professional I guess. Sorry. Have you kept it? You could show it to a nurse. Is that helpful? I don't know. You must be in a horrid place emotionally. So here are some (((hugs)))) xx Take care

Oh god. TMI alert. (really big alert). please please don't read if squeamish.

I just got my first period since the failed IVF. And I just found what looks very like an embryo in my pants. Is this even possible? There's a head end, a tail end. It's just under 2cm long. I urine tested a bit early on the IVF cycle, and didn't go in for a blood test because I couldn't face it after the BFN. But I did get a heavy period after I stopped the progesterone. Could this be a miscarriage or am I going totally crazy? I had symptoms this month, but didn't think much of them, as I'd had that BFN. What else could it be?

Please, someone, talk some sense into me.

Hello everyone and thanks for the ejaculatory advice

Lovely to hear from you Duplo with such great news. Let us know how your 9 week scan goes

nanoo still keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you. All pgs are different so try not to worry. Not long now...

Sooty not sure about lack of alcohol causing headaches - don't give yourself such a hard time - it's just the drugs I'm sure. I haven't had a headache today, but am wondering if these drugs are slightly mind altering as I seem to be getting the wrong end of the stick a lot and not quite grasping what's being said - maybe my mind is just preoccupied.

Waves to LL and your twins. Good luck with everything.

I had my first stimming scan this morning. I had 3 measurable follies on the left plus 10 small ones (one of those was there before I started stimming and so probbaly useless) and I had 11 measurable follies on the right and 8 small ones!!! So lots going on in there. I can't believe how potent these drugs are. So positive news and a higher than average amount of follies, but not reading anything into this just yet. Bought lots of lovely healthy stuff like hummus and smoothies and am eating healthily all the way now - not hard as I enjoy cooking nice things anyway. Also have some Green and Blacks in reserve just in case iykwim

Am off to aquafit in a bit so time to go and sort out my bikini line....

Just a quickie. Just come back from scan and it's going ok. Nice thick endometrium (14mm) and six follies - 2 at 13mm, 3 at 18mm and 1 at 24mm. The nurses seem pretty happy with that although have stressed there is no guarantee of good eggs in them but still it has brightened my day. Off to make a playmobil railway now!! I love half term. Will post properly later. GW

Oh, quick thought, LL thanks so much for your encouragement about getting through Day 11 (I must have gone to the loo about 20 times in just the first hour to check and double check - it was a nightmare!). Does anyone know the science behind the progesterone pessaries?? I thought that AF was triggered by a fall in progesterone levels (because if you're pg progesterone stays high, hence no lining shedding and no AF)....so surely it would be difficult for AF to come while using the pessaries? I'm just thinking AF's only staying away because of the drugs, as soon as I stop AF will show up. Is that how it (should) work?

You guys are amazing. Thank you for crossing everything!! It's Monday. So I guess in 48 hours I'll know either way. Trying not to think of either outcome, but am still feeling so doubtful (complete lack of symptoms, not even PMT). Whenever I've got pg before (both the successful one and the mc), in addition to the usual sore boobs, metallically taste in mouth etc.. I've always hated tea. Normally I love a cuppa (). But pg hormones put me right off. Today I desperately tried to dislike tea. I made a cuppa and looked at it. And really wanted it. Doh.

Ginger your post really struck a cord with me - so sad what can go through your head just as you hold the needle above the skin.

Hi Bumpless again - really good you're feeling positive - what is the next stage you are gearing up for?

Duplo thanks for coming back to post - please keep it going, you're giving us all hope :-) A strong heartbeat is all you need at this stage - keep positive!!

Catni I have actually been to see Dr Zhai - I went literally the month I conceived DS. DS was conceived following ovarian drilling, so Dr Zhai didn't have time to do anything except send DH and I off for tests. The article makes her sound amazing, and now I regret not going back to her this time. I guess I was looking for a quick fix (being 38, and desperately wanting a sibling for DS) and was too impatient to do TCM. Really silly of me, considering the quick fix hasn't been quick at all!!!!

Great to hear from you Duplo - and to hear that you saw a good strong heartbeat at the scan - congratulations!

I know what you mean about feeling nervous at this stage though - I was terrified of something going wrong in the early days; possibly more than I would have done had we not had to jump through so many hoops to get pregnant in the first place. But as Caitni says, having seen a HB is a fantastic milestone to have passed. LOL Caitni at your astronaut analogy - mine looked like little floating teddy bears with giant oversized heads.

I'm with Caitni on the swine flu stuff as well - to be honest I haven't really bothered thinking about swine flu at all, but I do think that was partly because I wasn't commuting daily on a tube, or working in an air-conned office, etc etc - I didn't really feel exposed to much risk. I still think I would be very cautious about taking a newly formulated vaccine.

Caitni - thanks for the link to the article. In a way I'm quite glad I didn't read it before a cycle though as I would be tempted to give her a go and she's certainly not cheap! Wasn't sure about the validity of comparing her success rates with those of fertility clinics giving people IVF but ... they are certainly impressive figures.

Have just had my update scan and it's not looking like I'll be enjoying home-cooked food any time soon. Cervix shortened to 2.1cm so they won't make any changes to my medication. The first milestone we need to aim for is getting to 30 weeks so it's legs crossed till then. The girls are both growing well though and are now 1.3kg each <proud parent-to-be emoticon> - that's almost THREE POUNDS! We have to aim for 2kg per baby before they poke their heads out into the real world, otherwise it's a transfer to the University hospital in Zurich. And that might be one bit of upheaval too many.... would really like to stay here.

Caitni - how are you doing? I have been reading about your home birth plans and am very slightly in awe of your womanliness Why am I such a poncey wuss? I am TERRIFIED of childbirth! The consultant doing my scan just now told me with glee that the second twin was moving into position to be head down which would obviously be good were we to go for a spontaneous delivery. It was all I could do not to grimace openly at the prospect....

Sooty glad to hear you sounding positive - I second Lottie about the caffeine - it's the only thing that causes me severe headaches (I still wince when I remember giving up caffeine years ago and the two weeks of headaches I suffered - giving up smoking was physically far easier for me!).

Isle sorry to read you've been down, especially as the genetic diagnosis hopefully means that your chances will improve with this FET. I really am hoping that it's the key to a successful pregnancy for you

Nanoo keeping my fingers tightly crossed for good news for you!

Lottie really hope you get to go home soon - you must be up the walls (though glad the mozzie didn't eat you alive!).

Duplo I'm very happy to hear things are going well with you - early pregnancy is such an anxious time, compounded by the effort it took you to get pregnant. I felt similar after our 7 week scan - looked more like an astronaut than a baby - but a strong heartbeat is v v positive. And re the swine flu, I've tried to read up on it and the significant risk seems to be the elevated temperature. I've taken to carrying parecetemol (sp?) around, so that I can pop a couple if I feel like I'm getting an elevated temp. Haven't had to do this yet, but my husband had it when I was 7 weeks and I currently have two colleagues who sit on my bank of desks who are off with it at the moment so just being cautious!

Ginger I also understand the sadness at what it takes for us to have our babies - I had mostly processed this before treatment (my then accupuncturist must have thought I was a mentalist...I cried for nearly 2 hours of our 2.5 hour initial
consultation ) but the actual physical process brought it back up a bit. Hope today's scan shows good news xx

Mummycat good luck to you for today's scan as well. We were told 2-3 days before EC for my DH.

Big waves to everyone I've not mentioned by name and good luck to all the stimmers.

I wanted to share this article from yesterday's Observer Woman magazine. I hadn't heard of this woman, and I was quite taken with it. She sounds like less of a crank than others in the fertility industry. I was particularly interested in her ability to improve sperm issues, since everything else I've come across mainly says things like sperm counts can't be improved.

Hi girls sorry I have been so quiet, I'm still following the thread but I know I haven't posted for ages

Sorry to hear you're spending all this time in hospital lottie, but I'm also relieved they are looking after you so well. I think it's definitely worth being overly cautious at this point however frustrating it must be to be staying in hospital when there's thousands of other things to do. But on the bright side you get to get a good rest, and you will need plenty of sleep reserves once you're looking after your little girls. and you get to sort out all your shopping now. I love that link you sent by the way, very stylish!

I'm glad you're feeling so positive sootie, that's a very good start to this cycle. I was feeling more positive this cycle thanks to a lovely doctor who didn't treat me as a failure for a change but pointed out all the positive things like the thickness of the lining. It just made the whole experience less stressful than last time round. I can't believe your headaches are alcohol withdrawal, unless you're normally downing a bottle of wine per day .

gingerwine/mummycat I think they told dp not to ejaculate for 48 hrs before the procedure, but sex before then is meant to be good as it keeps the sperm fresh! good excuse anyway!!

Good luck with your scan today mummycat!! What a shame your husband is so down, probably connected to the stress of ivf as you say, but not ideal timing. Try not to let it get to you too much - have you tried explaining to him that you really need him to be there for you atm?

I understand what you mean about the injections gingerwine. I had this feeling after the gift, with 3 cuts to my belly, daily heparin injections and an arsenal of drugs that this could never work because it just seemed such a wrong way of making babies. But unfortunately for some of us this is what it takes - even if it really isn't what we wanted it to be like. Fantastic news about your first scan though, 6 follicles is great (well for someone like me it would be incredible!).

How's it going nanoo? hope your distractions are still suitably distracting. How annoying your dh is abroad during this time, although if he is anything like my dp he would just be making you nervous.

Sorry you're down islegrin, hope you're feeling more positive already. I think you have so much to be positive for, your dr thinks your chances are good and now you are having lots of folic acid too - I so hope this is all you needed to make it work this time round.

I'm glad you're sounding so serene bumpless, I can really sense a lot of relief coming from you. I hope you will soon be able to find a way forward that you will be happy with, I'm sure it takes time to work it out though.

As for me I had my 6 weeks scan 10 days ago and it was good news. they saw the embrio and it had a good heartbeat. Strangely enough I didn't get all emotional or teary about it. for starters all I could see was a tiny blob and somehow I just feel more worried now that I know there is a little someone in there. It is still early days, I'm 8 weeks now and I'm already worried that something will be wrong when i have my 9 wk scan. Also getting quite stressed about swineflu, so much conflicting advice whether to get vaccinated or not. In the UK they are really pushing it, whereas in Germany and Austria there has been much more scepticism about it. When I'm not stressing out I do feel very happy though, it's all up and down at the moment. Starting to feel queasy and repelled by all sorts of food now too, hope that's a good sign.

All the best to everyone who's cycling at the moment, my thoughts are with you!!

Yes Duplo - where are you??!!

sooty - in a strange turn up for the books, I didn't manage to get the mozzie but he obviously decided he had better things to do as I didn't get bitten once during the night.... maybe all these hideous iron pills they're feeding me are no longer to the mosquito's satisfaction?

Smiled at your reference to the headaches possibly being due to alcohol withdrawal. It couldn't be caffeine could it? I have had the most shocking caffeine withdrawals when I've given up before; even when I've gone from having just one coffee a day down to zero.

The big doc has done his rounds - no real news other than the fact I may have to move rooms as - shock horror - there may be women on the maternity ward you know.... actually having BABIES... and they may need the space for them rather than me. Please please please let the scan later indicate that things have calmed down - then they can start to reduce my drugs and hopefully I'll be home in a week or so.

Hello all, I am still here, despite the temptation to jump straight over to Bumpless's new thread . . . actually feeling strangely positive, despite the fact that there are gale force winds outside and a black black sky (oh Sydney spring - it's not what people think, there's a westerly wind that blows all through October and I hate it).

Mummycat we are almost in Synch as I am on D4 of stimms too. Also having headaches - which I don't normally get until I start cetrotide/suppressant. Have a terrible feeling it is a withdrawal from alcohol? Is that possible ? I've gone cold turkey before and not noticed anything, but somehow I can't shake the strange feeling of a mild hangover.. . maybe this is just another form of self punishment. . .

Fingers X'd Nanoo . ..

Also Duplo are you out there? How's it going? You are my low responders inspiration . . .

I was a bit surprised at your new thread Islegrin, aren't you feeling more hopeful now you have some answers as to what the problem might have been? I interpreted that information to be a good thing (now it can be treated?). Did I get it wrong?

I hope you swatted your mozzie LL, they can be SO annoying. Aparently they are attracted to the carbon monoxide we breathe out - so a last-ditch-middle-of-the-night-can't-be-arsed strategy can be to just duck your head under the sheet and they 'lose' you.

The Waiting Lounge seems to be filing up - let me see am I right in thinking Islegrin, Gingerwine, Mummcat and myself are all intending to join you Nanoo by end of next week?

Just a quickie - I must get to bed but I'm staking out a mosquito in my room who will eat me alive unless I get to him first. He's been stalking me from the ceiling for the past hour, the fink...

nanoo - thinking of you and hoping for a good result this week. Very positive that you're 11 days post transfer and still going strong.

gingerwine - what you said struck a chord with me re. the injections. I'm sure many of us have had those thoughts as we sat poised with the needle... it's not what any of us would have wanted, let's face it, and sometimes it all just feels a bit too unfair, a bit too upsetting. Wishing you best of luck with your scan...

mummycat - I never felt great during the stim phase either. Sorry to hear about your DH blurting out his life worries at this stage... sounding all too familiar again! It must be the IVF; but I do wish they'd have the insight to realise that dumping these thoughts on us at these times really isn't ideal!

islegrin - sorry to hear you've been down about it all too. I'd say try to put all longer-term thoughts out of your mind until after this FET is over. Whatever the outcome of this cycle, you have plenty of time to worry about what's already happened, and whatever comes next. Not sure if you know of Eckhart Tolle but I find his philosophy really helpful at times where I'm anxious about the future. Hope that's not too irritating a suggestion!

Bumpless - I'm doing okay thanks... the grand fromage does his rounds tomorrow and then I'll find out whether I'll be able to go home. Although apparently it still wouldn't be for at least a week... I am desperate for some home-cooked food! You say you're gearing up for the next stage... where are you at with your thoughts? Only share if you want to of course...

Right. Where's that bloody mosquito. He's history.

Hi again! With thanks to Sooty for the inspiration, I've created a new thread for those for whom IVF isn't going to work. Here it is: Life after IVF

Although I really hope none of you need to join me on it!

Meant to say, MamaChris , I completely understand your seedhead moment - very poignant and very sweet.

Oh mummycat - you sound like I feel. Big (((hugs))).
Don't know about ejaculation question. DH and I were only talking about that yesterday. Another question for everyone - can we have sex while we are stimming (assuming I feel like it!!)?

Hi Ladies, been mainly lurking but just popping in to say hello.

LondonLottie how are you doing? I think you're being incredibly brave during what must be such a worrying time. Really hoping that everything's OK with you and the girls and you're managing to keep calm and occupied with internet shopping!

Mummycat I think the recommended time is 3 days. You want lots of swimmers but no stale ones!

Good luck to all the stimmers, hang in there, it's about time for a BFP!

I'm still enjoying the strange calm after the IVF storm, but gearing up to the next stage...

Oh yeah - I have a question for you all. How long should DH avoid ejaculation for before EC?

Hello Everyone, I've been away visiting friends this weekend at the other side of the country so have just been catching up with you all.

MamaChris totally understand your seedhead scattering (((hugs))) to you - be brave. Hope you can get your head around the twin possibility thing. It looks like this may be my only cycle of IVF and I am leaning closer and closer towards having two put in...

Nanoo I'm feeling it with you every step of the way. Have all my fingers and toes crossed too. Why is DH in America is it work? (((hugs))) to you too - sound like you could do with some TLC

Ginger you are just ahead of me with stimming. I get the feeling strange about the injections thing - I too keep thinking, "is this what I need to do? Is this going to work?" It all seems so unreal somehow.

Islegrin Not long now. Glad to hear that you are a little chirpier now, but I can hear your frustration. Take some time out to be still and calm and breathe 1..2..3. and all that crap if you can!!

I am on day 4 of stimming. My first stimming scan is tomorrow. Feeling headachey, tummy is a little sore and also having a little nausea at times - or maybe these are symptoms of stress and anxiety??!!

DH has decided that he wants a whole new career now and is completely disatisfied with all areas of his life. So I am absolutely convinced that the emotional stress I am currently under means that I probably don't have a chance of success with this. Haven't said this to him. The rational side of me is hoping that this is just his reaction to IVF and that he is distancing himself to avoid the pain.

Keep thinking about work Christmas do and wondering if I'll be hiding tiny bump or drowning my sorrows [confused and slightly f*ked up emotion]

Hi all.

nanoo - Sorry you are alone at this time. My advice would be to plan lots of nice meals for yourself, hire some films and once your little one is in bed, pamper yourself. Sounds like you are keeping busy in the day. It's not that long til wednesday. Fingers crossed for you. Stay away AF!!
The cetrotide is to stop me ovulating. I am on short protocol with big dose (450) of menopur and they add cetrotide once there are any follicles of 14mm.

My next scan is tomorrow and I am getting nervous already wondering whats been happening in there.

Isle - So sorry to see you were feeling down. You seem so upbeat on here and you always manage to cheer me up when I'm moaning. I know you will find some great coping strategies. Vegas sounds like a good start. There are so many travelling opportunities that you really can't do with children. I would love to do Peru and Machu Pichu (probably spelt wrong)! Just keep planning and as nanoo says you don't know what will happen this cycle yet.

I so wish I felt great with stimming. The headaches have gone and I feel a bit better but I find the actual injections really bother me. I am almost in tears doing them. Not in pain but because I think I find it hard to cope with the fact that this is what I need to do to have a baby. It's a bit pathetic really especially when so many you have done several cycles. I take my hat off to all of you. I guess I just need to toughen up a bit.

I went to the 40th last night and with the help of my friend and her DH managed to drink no more than half a glass of wine. Success! I needed a night out and I really enjoyed it. Now back to doing not too much and nurturing my 6 follicles!

Oops just realised typo in my post - I meant "I just CAN'T believe I'd be pg. But also can't bear to find out I'm not". (why's it always the important words that drop?!!!)

Love the idea of a Vegas trip for distraction. But don't be so pessimistic Isle - don't dwell on this being the last cycle, just think of it as another opportunity to get pg. Just think, you may never have to use any "coping strategies" - am sending you heaps of positive vibes....

uh-ohhhh you are alone with your thoughts??? Dizzing amounts of distraction sound perfect! Just 4 more days, you can doooooo it!

Baby aspirin is to thin out the blood a little bit to help faciliate implantation and reduce chances of blood clots. It's standard procedure for my doc at this point. (Although that might be std for FET because it didn't appear on any instructions for fresh IVF last time).

I'm better today, I got frustrated yesterday because I feel stagnant and I started thinking this is our LAST CYCLE, so I brainstormed other things we could do with DH last night, it helps if there is a glimmer of hope - even if we decide eventually not to take that route, helps me focus on now instead of making it so epic and final. Kinda like I needed the distraction of thinking of a Consolation prize/Vegas trip while we were in the process of IVF last time, we opted against actually going because we have different priorities, but it still helped during the process to relieve some pressure. It's all about creative coping strategies!

Hi Girls (waves madly). I'm still here....Day 11 (after ET) just DREADING AF pitching up. DH just left for the US for 10 days so am all alone with my head filling up with "what ifs...". The clinic says no testing til Wed. So Wed it is. Filling my days with a dizzying amount of things for distraction. Still don't feel a single thing. Have gone back to normal life (having hot baths, lifting my mega-heavy toddler) - I just believe I'd be pg. I also can't bear to find out I'm not. Crazy.

Well done gingerwine sounds like you're doing great. What's the centrotide for? And Isle, don't get frustrated now, you're so nearly there. Remember where to you were 5 weeks ago, it's a much better place now :-) May I ask what the baby aspirin is for?

OK - I've started the darker side of AC/IVF thread, just in case anyone is interested:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/conception/848782-Nearing-the-END-of-the-ROPE-and-still-NOTHING-Giving?rnd=1256 338350512

gingerwine truly, I always felt great on the stimming part, it's the downregging that bothers me physically.

Right now I'm on doxycycline for a few days and will be again right before ET, and only very small inj of Lupron .1cc everyday, mega-folic acid (new), metformin (which has been since the start of AC) estrogen patches, and baby aspirin (new). Not as many scans this time, they are just trying to build the lining and not produce any folicles (little lupron does that). So they scanned me last week to make sure no mature fols - although there were 8 tiny tiny ones, immature and not a problem. No AF yet, not sure if that's a problem or not - I should call them. I've been getting consistent daily headaches for about a week now, maybe I should drink 3 liters of water too!

I'm so tired of waiting... strangely I'm almost thinking this is like our first cycle with everything working (since the genetic diagnosis) which is kind of sad and kind of hopeful. I just want it to be here already!!! ARGGG! I'm trying to distract myself with thougths of other things. New couch arrives tomorrow, my mum, aunt and new dog arrive in just over a week. But this FET is all I can think about. I have an appt with a genetic counselor soon and another scan next week.

I'm so glad there are at least a couple of crazies out there, I'll keep you company!

Nanoo I hope it's a good sign that you haven't posted today, hopefully you are busy with other things... I'm looking forward to Wednesday!

Good to hear you have plans mamachris. I completely understand your concerns re twins. I know if we were lucky enough to even get pregnant it would be quite difficult if there were two! I have 2 DS's from first marriage and I also think twins would be hard on them. On the other hand it would wonderful for my DH who has no biological children at the moment. In fairness the boys both think of him as a dad and regularly tell him that they love him so we are very lucky to have our family as it is even though they are away alternate weekends. I also worry that I am being selfish wanting another child but I don't really feel I have completed my family and I know it would mean so much to my DH. Anyway if we don't try we will always wonder! My rambling doesn't help you with your worries I know, but you are not alone. The truth is that if you got pregnant naturally it could be twins too and you would manage somehow. The main thing I suppose is to talk about it (as I'm sure you have done) and make a decision you are happy with.

My scan was fine. Endometrial lining thickening nicely and I have 6 follicles, 3 on each side. They range in size from 9mm to 14mm. The nurses seemed fairly happy with this (in their 'trying not to get me overly optimistic' way), especially as my AMH was low and I have only had 5 days of stims so far. Next scan is on Monday and possible EC at end of next week. I have started injecting cetrotide now too. my tummy is getting a bit sore! Has anyone else used this one?

gingerwine hope scan went well, and that the headaches improve. glad I'm not the only bonkers one round here!

next baseline around 4th Jan (assuming my cycles follow predicted dates). odd, I have had so many symptoms this month, when it's completely impossible to be pregnant, way more than last month when I was on all those drugs. can you get a delayed reaction?

We already have one ds, and I think twins would be terribly unfair on him, plus I think dp would have a breakdown (quite seriously). It would not be a good outcome for us, and I'm worrying myself silly about it. On the other hand, I think for ds to be an only child would be awful too, and I can't imagine not having another child... I feel very selfish saying this, when I do already have ds, but it's a really strong emotion, difficult to explain.

islegrin FET is coming round quick! keep taking those folic acid, and try and enjoy not (yet) being in the 2ww. I quite enjoyed stimming too, except for the painful swollen ovaries bit. I even enjoyed (in some strange way) the injections... obviously I am very odd

Morning all.

Also laughing here nanoo at your toiletphobia!

And islegrin - I agree with nanoo. Can't believe you like the stimming part! Good news about date for FET. If I get to that stage we will be at least partly on the 2WW together. What do you have to do to prepare for it? Is it just different injections? Do you have as many scans?

Thankyou all for headache advice. I am now drinking about 3 litres of water and feel I will float away soon! The headache is not so bad and I am feeling a bit more normal (well normal for me!!). It's hard to know how much is real physical symptoms and how much is related to the whole stressful experience. I am normally pretty stoical to be honest and not generally a very anxious person but I have to admit this process is scaring me silly. I worry about what the drugs are doing to me or if they're doing anything.

Ah lottie - litres of wine, those were the days!! How's the boredom going? I like your retail therapy. Lovely little coccoons. Good choice. How on earth did your SIL spend that much on nursery furniture? Your purchases sound more sensible to be honest.

mamachris - I was feeling all sad about the seed heads in your garden when I read your post so don't worry. You are only as mad as me! That's not a great consolation as I'm a bit bonkers at the best of times! I think your consultant sounds pretty sensible to be honest. There are lots of positives. If your reserve is ok and you responded well it means you should respond well again. I can understand why the thought of twins might scare you but putting 2 embies back in would really increase your chances of one baby and if this is your last go I would do that too. If you get lucky with 2 embies at least lottie will be on hand to advise. When do you start cycling again?

mummycat - I think me and my friend will be plotting to keep my DH's beer consumption to a minimum! I'm sure it will be fine. I feel like I need a night out. How is your stimming going?

I must go now. Off for a scan. Will check in later.

nanoo lol, you got me blindsided... thanks for the laugh, I needed that!

two weeks from tomorrow for FET... waiting waiting waiting, soooo boring!

Thanks so much to you all with your advice on symptom spotting. I promised myself I wouldn't even think about it, as nothing can be done until testing day (next Wednesday is the day the clinic have asked me to do a pee-stick - exactly 2 weeks after ET). But now I know I could get a period before then (I thought the progesterone would keep AF away) I'm terrified of ever going to the loo!!! Doh.

Islegrin - the stimming makes you feel great??!! Surely not

Well spotted Mamachris that the guardian ariticle is from an abstract only - I'll just open the bottle ! Just kidding, but I didn't realise it was quite so flimsy at this stage. Like LL I was starting to question the criteria as well - like how many of the complete abstainers were first time IVF'ers who have the highest sucess rates anyway (I didn't drink at all my first time but subsequent failures weakened my resolve)? It's 'sobering' but not conclusive in my book. However I have decided not to drink this cycle, it's my last try and I've nothing to lose. I think it was harder when I was contemplating a series of cycles and thinking that'll be a whole year without drinking.

Gingerwine I get headaches from the 'suppressant' drugs - sounds like you are on Lupron, I usually take Orgalutran. I found it helped to take it at night and then a couple of panadol. Unfortunately Orgalutran needs to be taken in the morning - so I have no 'sleep' exit now.

Hang in there Nanoo, symptoms are . . . symptoms . . . but of what? It's impossible to tell . . just keep crossing those fingers. It must be hard for you to be away from your Partner at the moment, but you're not alone - we're here!

mamachris you are quite right about symptom spotting, I've trained myself now to think "doesn't mean shite" whenever a twinge happened. it helps to keep my maddness in check. And thanks for the wise words, I'm starting to accept the results as a good thing - it just took a few "cloudy days" to do that.

I get headaches on the downregging, but the stimming makes me feel great! Unfortunately this cycle = no stimming, just lining building. So I'm not sure how I'll feel. So far 5 days in a row with headaches, ugh!

nanoo I'm anxiously reading all of your news for progress and updates. Like you, I can't wait to find out your results!

LL I also hate false hope! (but then you knew that already) are you taking the girls camping? What do you use the cocoons for? I agree, totally adorable!!!

hey there. I've been staying away for a while, trying to get my head together. We went for the "failed cycle" consultation today, and he basically said, yep, nothing wrong with ovarian reserve, lots of eggs, no idea why you had such a high number of good quality embryos which then turned into an almost failed blastocyst culture. What he did was persuade us to go for a day 2, 2 embryo transfer this time (which will be our last). The thought of twins is really scaring me, but the big question is whether we want a baby more than we don't want twins?

I went a bit crazy after that. Was out in the garden, tidying up and dead-heading (in the rain!) and decided I couldn't let any of the seedheads go to waste, so spent about an hour carefully picking out every seed and sprinkling round the garden, all the time thinking "you crazy woman - these dead plants don't care if they have babies!". but I did it anyway... oh dear

nanoo it's so hard not to over-interpret every little thing, but really that's all it is - over-interpretation. what I noticed the first natural cycle after a series of IUI cycles was how hyper-aware I suddenly was of my body, noticing things that I had interpreted as symptoms the month before, and couldn't possibly be now. Just hang in there. I found the second week hardest every time, but you're over halfway, well done.

ll I think sheepskin fabulous for babies, and very worth it

gingerwine my standard excuse is antibiotics (people tend not to ask what the infection is, and if they do you can always just look a little embarrassed and say you'd rather not say, nothing major).

Caitni that Guardian article is annoying the hell out of me. I'd like to be able to read the original paper to come to my own informed view, but the paper isn't yet published - the article is based on the abstract of a conference talk. So we don't have enough information to assess the validity of the science, just enough to get lots of journalists excited. And note how different journalists get excited about different bits - the telegraph claims white wine (rather than alcohol) is the culprit!

islegrin, it may not feel it, but I think this is great news - it means there is something you can change which will make this cycle more likely to work that any others before. good luck!

LL those cocoons are so cute! Good for you - you need the retail therapy at the moment.

Ginger thanks for bringing up the drink question. I hadn't really thought about it too much. TBH I only have the odd glass of wine now and again - maybe every couple of weeks or so, so it's not such a problem. We are seeing friends at the weekend though and would normally get through a few bottles with them, but they know our situ and so it will be fine. Told my friend today that we shouldn't drink and she is going to dicreetly make sure that DH doesn't have too much without him realising! . It's great when girlies plot together against men. Enjoy your party - I'm sure you'll think of something - could have orange juice and pretend it has vodka in it or lemonade and pretend it has Archers in it if necessary.

Caitni the recovering alcoholics comment made me LOL. Thanks for the advice on headaches during stimming and period pains during 2WW. I'm taking it all on board. I start stimming tomorrow and have been advised to have 2.5 litres a day. So I practised today and have managed it and then some. Down reg has been making me headachey so am wondering what Stim will add to that!

Nanoo enjoy the countryside and hang on in there. With DD (using Clomid) I had plenty of period like pains and stressful times and sleepless nights during the 2WW. I held off testing till I was a week late too - God only knows how. Anyway AF and pg symptoms are so similar it's silly. LL's comments about false hope are spot on. Baby dust and embie glue to you xx

Good luck Sooty and don't beat yourself up about the drink thing as you say, it is only one study after all.

Yes, nanoo - I was gutted when I started bleeding last time. Especially because loads of people on Fertility Friends love to tell you "it's probably implantation bleeding" when I knew it damn well wasn't. Well, obviously I didn't know for SURE, but... I'm not big on all that false hope crap!

gingerwine - are you SURE you're not talking about litres of wine? Come on now, admit it....

The shopping is going... okay. I have a few mules coming over in the next couple of weeks (my mother and before that a couple of good friends) so am busy getting parcels sent to their various addresses in time for their trips. Yesterday and today I've bought a merino sheepskin (well, we have wooden and granite floor in the apartment... you know it makes sense), bought a few blanketty things from the White Company, loads of bedding/basic sleepsuits etc from JL, ohh and was stupidly extravagant and splashed out on a couple of these Cocoons Minus one hundred points for wasting money on pointless rubbish.... - still, I found out yesterday my pg SIL just spent £1800 on nursery furniture - am still 'd about that actually.... due to talk to her later and must practise feigning non-revulsion at her spending decisions!

Apologies for the shopping nonsense. In my defence I'm bored out of my brains!

nanoo - I have no experience yet but hang in there and try to stay positive. It sounds like it is a fairly common symptom so try not to be too down. I hope the time away and space helps. And yes I think I'll drink sips and hope everyone else is so tiddly they don't notice.

Thanks caitni - I have to say the headaches were worrying me a bit even though I know it is a possible side effect. It helps to hear someone say they had it too though. I will drink even more. Only managiing 2 litres a day at the moment. Of water that is - not talking about wine again!!

I may have my childcare problems sorted for EC. Hooray! A wonderful friend has offered to have them. What a weight off my mind!

lottie - how's the shopping going?

Thanks girls - to be honest I barely know whether it's period pains or not (I don't have a natural cycle so I don't get period pains!!). Maybe my jeans are too tight today - been eating SO much protein to try and improve my chances. I'm using the prog pessaries, but so far have felt nothing - zip - they haven't had an affect on my mood or given me sore boobs. I still feel completely normal (except for these new tummy feelings). Not pg at all.

Oh LL I'm dreading Day 11, because that's when I got a period when I last took FSH drugs (it wasn't an IVF cycle, but still I'm guessing the same thing could happen). Don't you think it's so much worse to find out it's failed by AF's arrival? It seems so brutal.

Nanoo I agree with Lottie about the pain - not much to know at this stage so I'm just hoping you get good news. Enjoy your time out in the countryside xx

nanoo - unfortunately the period pains can mean things are swinging either way - they don't seem to be any indicator whatsoever: think the progesterone confuses our bodies. I had really bad period cramps from about 8 days after EC... with both cycles - one worked; one didn't. And from what I've read they're very common either way. Are you taking the prog pessaries? I think again it depends on the individual; with my first (failed) cycle my period started 11 days after EC, despite continuing to take the progesterone. With some people the progesterone does/can hold things off for a few days, but not me! Try and stay calm and know that there are NO surefire signals either way at this stage.

Gingerwine just saw you're stimming with Menopur - I also had a headache my first couple of days on Menopur (I never get headaches) and upped the water intake and that sorted it. By upped the water intake I was drinking at least 2.5 to 3 litres a day during stimming...good luck with it - wishing you juicy follicles and lovely healthy eggs

Interesting to read that Guardian article this morning though much prefer the Zoe Williams one! I cut out drinking during stimming but did have the odd drink during the downreg weeks (including one night of proper drunkeness ). And I agree that it's a PITA to come up with excuses...why can't people just accept that soft drinks are OK without suspecting motives (and I come from Ireland where people who don't drink are automatically assumed to be recovering alcoholics - double ).

Thanks Sooty LL and MummyCat being so positive about DH and possible appointment at clinic counsellor. Am currently taking a few days out in the countryside at my parents' place - thought a bit of space between us would do us good. This morning I've started getting really slight period pains. Bit scary. It's only been a week since ET. I'm trying not to read too much into it - but does anyone know if it's possible to get your period while still taking the progesterone? I thought that during the 2ww I wouldn't start my period whether I'm pg or not, because the drugs (should be ) keeping my progesterone levels up. Or is it still possible that my period will start? God, not sure I'm ready for a result yet. And certainly not that one

Hi Gingerwine, try not to worry too much about it. Most people won't even notice you not taking sips. V kind friend though! I guess I'd also have to ask if it matters if there is "suspicion" - who would be concerned about it anyway? You could turn up a little later than planned so everyone is fairly tipsy anyway so wouldn't notice. Or persuade your DH to say he's on antibiotics?? Flat coke can look like red wine...if that helps?!

Sooty how exciting to start a new cycle - but a bit difficult for you if you feel it's your last. I guess you just gotta give it everything you've got - here comes lots of positive vibes.....

Glad you enjoyed it gingerwine. Ummmm re. the drink suggestions. Elderflower cordial + water can look like white wine but I'm not sure that'll be available.

What was that drink? Purdey's? That used to look like champagne, from memory... came in small silvery bottles and was a health drink or somesuch.

It's really hard, this "why aren't you drinking?" issue. Just shows you how hardwired drinking is into our culture, doesn't it? I'd be tempted to white lie and say you're preparing for a routine operation and have been advised not to drink for a few days beforehand. And then I'd blather on about what a BUGGER it is and how you wished you could but blah blah blah. After all, it's entirely feasible you could be having a laparoscopy or something entirely innocent to do with fibroids or something.

Best of luck - I didn't really stop drinking for the IVF, as I said, but when I got pregnant I used to say I was about to start IVF to anyone who asked why I wasn't drinking. Once I said I had decided to give up booze for the month of May... that seemed to work (much to my surprise - thought my friends would twig that was highly unlikely!).

That was very topical of me wasn't it? It is a nightmare all this advice. I much preferred reading the Zoe Williams article lottie, thank you.

Unfortunately driving is not a usable excuse as there is no need to drive. If I said I was driving it would cause even more suspicion. My friend has offered to drink my drinks for me so she could end up plastered! At the moment I seem to have a horrible headache so I don't want any wine anyway. So I need some ideas for drinks which look like the real thing but are not. Gin and Tonic is easy but what looks like white wine? More of an issue is my DH who doesn't drink much at all generally but on a night out would normally have a few beers. He is not happy about avoiding it. He didn't get much sympathy from me as I am just getting to grips with injections and am feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all.

Is a horrible headache normal for a few days of stimming with menopur?

Sooty - Really rooting for you on your last cycle. I know it's hard but try not to stress about EC yet. We have timing problems too but I am trying to put them to one side and concentrate on eggs for now. Are you on menopur like me or something else I haven't heard of yet?

Hope everyones ok today. Hello again flibberty.

GW

Here's the link - interesting reading sooty, thanks.

Wonder if they controlled for all other variables beforehand though - like, perhaps the couples who were drinking moderately had other lifestyle factors from their past which might have affected their chance of success. In light of a study like this, I might be tempted to stop completely if I was embarking on a cycle, but I never did before. I notice there's a quote from the chairman of NICE giving another wishy-washy non-justification as to why women are advised to give up drinking completely through pregnancy. I tell you, this 'treat women like they're morons' stuff drives me mad!

Here's another Guardian article however, by Zoe Williams which makes for EXCELLENT reading, I find...

You question is very apt Gingerwine as I have just read on the Guardian that drinking has a significant effect on IVF - something like 26% from a new Harvard study if you both drink even moderately!

Makes me feel terrible as we have never really given up drinking completely. I have always tried to keep it very moderate when cycling, but now I wish I'd taken more notice. . . still having said that it is only one study, and previous studies have suggested there is no great link. My clinic just recommends moderation . . . but I know what you mean about it being tricky to hide. Driving is always a good exscuse - I usually volunteer when stimming.

Hmm, well AF came today and heading into the clinic tomorrow for LAST cycle. Feeling very strange about it all. Also the timing is tricky as EC will be around the time of my last tutorial - can't really miss it - will just have to cross my fingers it doesn't happen that day - or will have to struggle in afterwards . . . might have to ask them to go light on the pethadine . .

ladies
just popping on to see how everyone is doing before my body shuts down for some sleep.

Will try and catch up! -- LL - take it easy!

nanoo - Fantastic that your DH wants to speak to a counsellor. Just admitting that he wants to is a big positive step. I'm sure that the clinic counsellor is a good place to start and if he finds it helpful he could always look for others later, and as LL said they may even be able to suggest one if they feel counselling beyond the scope of the ivf clinic services. It all sounds a lot better than throwing his dinner accross the room in any case. How are you today?

londonlottie - you sound like you are coping well with your enforced rest. Glad your DH and friends are all rallying round. Just think of all the internet shopping you can do!

KC11 - I would so love a crystal ball. That would be so helpful to all of us. It's the not knowing that is hard to deal with isn't it? Nice to see you back here. Have you had a follow up appointment? What are your plans?

Hi to everyone else I've forgotten.

Two days of injections done here and it's going ok. I do feel a bit emotional but I think that's more to do with the whole thing. I have a question ladies. We are going to a friends 40th at the weekend. Am I allowed to have one glass of wine do you think or should I have none at all? Only one couple who will be there will know what we are up to. We are planning on carefully switching drinks around or I will claim to have a headache or something. I'm not good at lying but I think we'll have to. Any advice gratefully received.

nanoo sounds like maybe your DH has been trying to hold it all in and has now just erupted. As you know mine has been all over the place so I can empathise. I agree with LL that him wanting to go to the counsellor at the clinic is very positive. Many, men wouldn't even admit that anything is wrong, yet he recognises that it is this which is upsetting him. Good luck

Just a quickie nanoo - that's REALLY positive that he's suggested talking to the IVF counsellor. It might be worth doing as he suggests: the session(s) you have there might lead to him deciding he'd like to go further on his own, but (IME) it's quite a big decision to decide to start from scratch alone and this could be a good 'in'. They will also no doubt have some good contacts if you want to pursue it further.

That's great LL! How exciting. Get shopping for your little ones - and really really enjoy :-) You deserve it, what a journey you've had til now!!!

Thanks so much to all for the advice on seeing a therapist and choosing the right one (Sooty, your poor Mum - all that therapy for your Dad and no result). DH has suggested seeing the counsellor at the IVF clinic, but something tells me we need more than just counselling about IVF. Will start looking around (any ideas where to start?) and bring the subject up with DH slowly......

Morning all.

nanoo - hope you're feeling better today and that relations weren't too difficult last night. To start with we went to see a therapist together because we were having problems. Thankfully the therapist was a superb find and - much to my surprise - DH really bonded with him and respected his opinion. Rather annoyingly (in some ways) my lovely husband is off the scale on the intelligence front which can mean he finds it difficult to accept other people's opinions, particularly if he can out-logic them into a cocked hat. So we were lucky that the guy we found was deemed to be of sufficient nouse. After a while of us going together I got a job in Spain for a few months so... it seemed a natural progression for DH to start going on his own. Worked wonders for us but I completely agree with sooty - essential it's the right person. With the right technique.

sooty - it sounds to me as though you're handling this in the best way possible for yourself. I wound myself up in knots worrying about the demise of a particular friendship after the couple very insensitively announced their pregnancy and continued to blab on about how irritatingly easy they'd found it to conceive just as we were starting the IVF investigations. (In fact I blathered on about it on here endlessly at the time.) But ultimately, it's about self-preservation, and I'm sure that another person in another universe would have handled my situation better and been a better person and risen above it and blah blah blah - but I just couldn't do it. So I gave in to that realisation and accepted it. It was too hard for me to be around them, so I stopped feeling guilty that I should be able to handle it and um.... just stopped being around them! Whatever is the best way for you to be before/during/after this next cycle - just do it and don't feel guilty about it.

As for me, am still in the hozzie. One week down, at least one to go. Am resigned to my fate and have stopped resisting like a pathetic rebel to everything they ask me to do. They've got me stabbing myself with a bloody needle about ten times a day to check for gestational diabetes, despite the fact that in over 25 sugar tests, only one has come back as being over the minimum - and it was over by 0.1 whatevers to the whatever.

The EXCELLENT news is that my carpal tunnel has gone, all cankles have disappeared, and I feel so much more relaxed. I'm starting to feel capable of list-writing and online shopping to get things ready, and DH is busying himself building cots, looking for a tank car for when the girls arrive, and generally really stepping up to the plate. I've got friends coming over in a couple of weeks followed by an extended visit from my mother, so that should allay the boredom a little. I'm gunning to be let home in about a week but we'll see.............

Oh nanoo how awful, pregnancy (or threat of it) does bring out some very extreme emotions in men. Good luck and although I would recommend seeing a therapist too, make sure it is a type of therapy that is suitable. My father had terrible rages when my mother was pregnant and he went off to a Jungian therapist for five years (it was the sixties and all the rage) and I don't think it did him any good. I myself have seen a pyscho therapist at times which I found useful, in fact I have been thinking about seeing her again in order to get myself out of your friends aptly described 'dark room' of IVF. Good luck, but yes at least it is a distraction . . . and we all need those on the 2WW.

Good to see you back KC11, it's hard after a bad cycle, but it's nice to come back too and know we are all in it together. Since returning to Australia a couple we know - who are ten years older - who also went through IVF ages ago, have been very sweet to us, even though I know they only know about our troubles through the grapevine. It's strange but there is a gentleness towards us, in particualar me that is quite touching and yet very discreet. Makes you realise how much shared experience is the basis of so much friendship - it's almost unconcious but it's there. And when doing IVF it is hard to find - which is why I have found this thread so helpful.

As to my homoepath friend - well, I got DP to read my email, and he said it was fine. I don't quite feel ready to bridge the gap at the moment though. Maybe next year when all this is behind us . . . maybe I just don't want to hear about their pregnancy? Who knows . . .

LL how are you going? Do you still have to stay 2 weeks? Have you rung anyone to come and visit? I spent 6 weeks in hospital as a child and I remember being really bored, and waiting everyday from my visit from my mum or dad. One day neither could come (my little brother and sister were sick) and it nearly broke my heart! My little seven year old self just fell apart without that event in the day. Obviously your coping mechanisms are going to be much more highly developed, but don't feel to ashamed to phone a friend and demand a visit if you are feeling down . . .

Oh KC11 - completely understand the dream of the crystal ball, because if you knew in the future a DC would be here, right now you could just relax and enjoy living in the present. I hate wishing my life away as I count up cycles and days. And your heartbreak this am sounds v sad - I really feel for you. Have you thought about what next? It always help to have hope....

Thanks LL for the advise about listening. Have just received a 20 para email from him explaining his wobble - that's gonna take a lot of listening!!! At least this is helping the 2ww - complete distraction. How did you persuade your DH to see a therapist? Did you go with him?

Hello.
Horton - I don't think we've met. *WELL DONE*. You give me hope that it is possible I could conceive naturally after all. My second IVF failed 3 weeks ago. Early this morning I woke up at 4.45am. I love my sleep but could not get back to sleep. Then DH's alarm went off at 6.00am. Then I managed to get a bit of sleep. When my alarm went off at 7.00am I suddenly needed to cry. Must be hormones and sadness all mixed up. I am so encouraged that you fell PG naturally. You must be thrilled and rightly so. CONGRATS.

Poor LLottie. You don't sound like you're having much fun. Call in those favours you are owed and get someone to do the unpacking for you. Take care of yourself and let the doctors do the thinking and worrying. I am stunned that you're already 30 weeks!! I bet you've noticed every single day and I bet it seems you've been PG forever already. Hang on in there. You want the babies to be lovely and well when they arrive, so be a good patient! Hope you don't think I'm being patronising. I mean it kindly.

I've just read 2 weeks worth of posts as i've not felt able to come on here. I didn't want to feel jealous of the BFPs. I just want someone with a crystal ball to tell me that I will have a baby/child in the future..... if they could also tell me when that would help me a great deal!!!! LOL

nanoo - you're not on your own here - my DH has had a couple of similar 'venting frustration on inanimate objects' moments himself: they leave me completely cold. Your friend is right that you should keep talking to him; or rather, let him talk and try to just listen.

Once the dust has settled, in a few days or even a couple of weeks, I'd suggest trying to talk to him about what happened back there. Would he consider going to see a therapist? My DH went for a couple of years and it made a huge difference... I think it's easy for them to start to feel as though they don't have any control over where things are going; as though they're not the orchestrators of their own life. Anyway, as I say - think about that bubble around you for the time being and keep your head as much as you can.

Oh dear nanoo - Sorry to hear that your DH lost the plot last night. This is all so stressful for both partners. Sounds like he really needed to let off steam!! I hope he comes home later in a better mood. I think your friend is right. Keep talking. I'm sure that's the best way to be there for each other. Sorry he made you cry. Sending you cyber hugs! And day 7 (I'm not experienced enough to know if that's right but it makes sense to me!) - fantastic. You are half way through the 2WW. Maybe you should plan some distraction for you and DH together. Anything to keep you both busy.

mummycat - Shame about the needle phobia. Glad your DH is helping out though. Great news about starting stimming.

Islegrin - I think it's good you have a possible reason that things haven't worked. Now you can do something about it. It's a shame they don't test us all for all these things at the start really but that would only make it even more expensive I suppose! I think your FET may be around the time my ET if all goes to plan here. We could be on the 2WW together.

londonlottie - Sorry to hear you are having a rough time. I know it must be really frustrating but just try and relax and stay in bed if that's what's advised. Really the only thing you need to focus on is looking after yourself and your babies. Every week that goes by those girls are stronger and stronger. Rest rest rest! Oh and surf the internet etc.. If it's any consolation I would be going mad not being able to unpack but it's not a priority at the moment. Take care

Sooty - Juat reading about your friend made me cross for you. TBH it sounds as though he doesn't really know what he's talking about. I have very little belief in homeopathy and I expect they were just lucky. You are not to blame for your infertility and anyone who really understands what it's all about knows that.

I've not had a great two weeks here. Just struggling with the whole thing I think, but now we are back on track and ready to give it a go. I had my first scan this morning and my injection teach. So I am officially stimming. (Am on high dose short protocol). I have another scan booked for Friday so I am just wondering what I can do to help those follicles grow! I'm drinking lots of water and trying to eat lots of protein and rest as much as possible. And thinking eggy thoughts!!! My major head ache at the moment is sorting out childcare for egg collection. It might be at half term so the friends who know what we're doing will be away, my parents are abroad and my DH's parents are too far away! The nurse said this morning that people have brought children with them as I will have my own room and my DH could look after them while I am having it done then after I am awake and feeling OK he would go and do his bit! I would like to avoid this to be honest. Not sure how I would explain what we were doing to an inquisitive 9 year old!! I'm more worried about the childcare than the injections at the moment!!
Like you nanoo - I keep thinking I should be trying to be calm and relaxed!! It's not easy is it?

That's so kind of you LL - esp when you are dealing with so much yourself. It's not completely out of character - he's had a tantrum or two in the last few years (ie physically hitting something in anger), but it's quite rare. I've always been worried he has some sort of depression, but haven't a clue how to bring it up with him, and now I think the IVF has pushed him over the edge. Oh dear.

Oh nanoo You poor thing. First off, can I just say that throwing his dinner across the room is diabolical behaviour and I hope you get an apology, no matter how upset he was. Has anything like this happened before? I know it's really hard but try to stay as calm as you can and wrap yourself in a big protective bubble over the next few days.

What do you think this is all about? Is this out of character for him? Men can feel very divorced from the IVF process and although obviously it's not the way any of us would like to have to conceive, I think men can find it harder to come to terms with the fact that this is where we're at. Really hope you get some resolution this evening - please take care of yourself. xx

AH MummyCat1 don't get a needle phobe now - stimming just around the corner - just feel excited by the opportunity ahead (hark me, and still a newbie to this whole thing!) But I meant it positively! V exciting that you could be starting soon.

I'm on Day 7 since fertilisation (should I be counting from then, or from ET? not sure). Until yesterday was doing really well at being relaxed/calm, looking forward to another bit of acupuncture tomorrow etc... When guess what? DH as a HUGE wobble. HUGE. Last night he absolutely freaked - hating everything about this (oh, and our life) - throw his dinner across the room, had me in tears, slept in a different bed, had another tantrum with me this morning, had me in tears again. Just received an email from a friend who's adopted (happily - it's all worked out really well for her) after 7 failed cycles of IVF who said for her IVF was like "going into a dark room on your own for 3 years" and advised me to keep talking to DH. Agh.

And I'm meant to be relaxed!!!! I can't believe this is happening to me

Hello Ladies. I went for my down reg scan today. They found one follicle in my left ovary of 2.3mm and my womb lining was 7mm and they really want it to be 6 or less so I was a little concerned.

Anyway, they just called and said that my blood test results show that I am ready to start stimming on Thurs! Will have my first stimming scan on Mon.

Unfortunately, I suddenly seem to have become a needle phobe and am having to get DH to inject me every day instead of doing it myself. Perhaps my tummy has had enough! Will be moving onto thighs on Thurs.

Will be so glad when I don't have to go for acupuncture anymore too. Not really enjoying that. I just happened to mention that I have been having some trouble sleeping and before you know it, i suddenly had 6 needles sticking in my inner ear. Youch!!

How's everyone else getting on? Seems to have gone a little quiet on here xx

Knowledge is only potential power, Action is power -- well, in my world. Luckily, we're doing both! (I get your meaning mummycat, and I appreciate it much, I really do.) I think I still have some sticky bits of patch-ring left from last time - keep picking it off in the shower.

Why is it that I want to sing: Were off to see the wizzard, the wonderful wizzard of Oz!

sorry Sooty I meant insensitive not sensitive!

Sooty IMO you haven't done anything wrong. Your comments to your friend sound perfectly justified to me. It is hard to have people force their ideals down your neck. I'm sure they probably feel bad and hopefully realise how thoughtless and sensitive they have been. However, they probably thought they were helping. They sound somewhat naive TBH. Try not to worry. Give it some time to calm down

Isle LOL at your oestrogen patches quip! , but at your blue feelings. This is a good discovery. Knowledge is power! Your Dr sounds great. I'm keeping my fingers crossed so hard for your FET.

Hang on in there nanoo I'm rooting for your little embies xx

Yay for day 5 nanoo! It's so exciting, everyday after transfer. I hope you are doing well and keeping yourself occupied with fun things.

I took the whole "broken" thing to a new level this morning... now I wonder if this is why the last 4.5 years and lots of money have been a waste. It's hard not to regret not knowing sooner. (Hope that double negative is understandable) doc thinks that's what prob caused the "ectopic" and now even doubts that's what it was... oh, I must go think about something else. I think I need an escape route out of my mind.

I'll be fine and dandy tomorrow, just have to wait out this cloudy period.

Isle, that's great you know so much more now - and fantastic there is a fix. Maybe this is the key you've been waiting for - please don't feel broken. It's such good information to have (you wouldn't want to be pg and only then find out there's an issue with folic acid - the risk of mc would be high).

Sooty that's great you had someone else to chat to about it - of course you weren't being unreasonable. Are you going to do anything about it now? You said he was a "dear old friend" - sounds a relationship worth fixing. (Maybe he went silent just because he couldn't bear confrontation, or realised he'd be a twat and didn't know how to begin with sorry??)

Friends being insensitive is SO hard. Actually I found I got over the jealously of friends having babies after the first few years (I struggled at first!). The worst was my sister, who had her entire family of 3 while I had mc after mc. It always seems worse when it's a close friend. My closest friend from college is currently pg with DC2 and treats my fertility treatment as though I'm just getting my teeth cleaned at the dentist. V v insensitive, to the point I've stopped arranging to meet up. Bit sad. But she just doesn't get it.

No news from my little embies inside - except I don't feel A THING. Nothing. I've had an upset tummy on and off (I assume that's the drugs??) but I feel so normal. It's only Day 5 since EC (so if they are still with me they'd be doing their blastocyst thing today....)

Thanks Islegrin and LL I was in a bit of a state yesterday. In the end I 'phoned a friend' who actually has had a child in the time we have been trying and that helped. Made me realise I wasn't being unreasonable - most of my friends have had kids since we've been trying, but maybe as well my friend was being obtuse. Maybe as well I just need to wait for the divorce . . . . it just all feels like such a sorry business at the moment from my perspective.

Islegrin glad you Dr caught up with your condition - it might make all the difference.

And LL I think it is time you 'phoned a friend' too . . . at least maybe for when you do go back home - so someone can help you prepare without lugging boxes yourself. You must be going out of your brain with boredom, you need to get online and get yourself some entertainment, get on to Amazon now . . . .

Great to hear from you sooty.

Re. your friend. Well. I would also not have taken kindly to an email such as that. Having said that, when you look at it with any kind of distance (impossible when it's directed at you) obviously you can see that he was just trying to share his "good news". But there are tactful ways of doing that, and actually just by saying 'oh and by the way this time round we tried acupuncture' you get the message across - you don't need to ram it down anyone's throat: 'YOU must try acupuncture if you want to end up like us!!'.

I am completely with you re. many alternative therapies - particularly homeopathy, as it happens. Have you read this by Ben Goldacre on the subject? (FWIW, Ben G actually really irritates me - just like Dawkins; self-proclaimed guardians of the truth who are actually just as evangelical and impervious to reasoned debate as those they criticise) BUT I am one who likes to see some sort of, you know.... actual evidence that there might be some benefit to those cheques the homeopath/acupuncturist/etc request each week.

With acupuncture, I thought the evidence was flimsy, but there WAS some evidence there re. treatments around embryo transfer affecting outcome. Although it worked for us, I like to think I'd never be so bold as to tell anyone else it would work for THEM. I would however tell them that if they can afford it they might as well give it a pop because I don't think it can do any harm.

Back to your friends, however. Knowing that she believes that we are all responsible for what goes on in our body is tantamount to her telling you it's YOUR fault you haven't conceived yet. Which we patently know is utter bollocks. And I'd be tempted to punch someone in the face who suggested such a thing, especially when you've had countless treatments, are a positive person anyway, and have essentially subjected yourself to an enormous amount of stress and upheaval to achieve your end goal. It's just so... TRITE for someone with little or no knowledge of the finer details of fertility (oh how I sort of wish I'd been able to keep that level of ignorance on the subject!) to tell YOU how it all works and how, with a sugar pill, you can make it better.

So bottom line is I think your reaction entirely normal. But what to do now? Unless you've been through fertility treatment I don't think you can possibly understand it. I've been shocked by the twattishness of some friends gloating about their successes while we floundered in our attempts. In fact, we're not even friends with a couple of them any more. (Which I'm somewhat embarrassed about yet feel unable to change.)

I had a terrible day here yesterday - after worrying I was wasting everyone's time the day before, yesterday was a day of contractions and cramps and all sorts of stuff. Felt thoroughly miserable. Just seen the obst. this morning and it's now looking like a 2 week stay. I know it's for the best, but it's not helped by knowing that we have an apartment a 15 minute walk away which is full of unpacked boxes, we're still in the throes of setting up home in a new country, and basically I feel completely unready for what lies ahead. Was really counting on these few weeks to finish all our preparation.... time to call in a few favours perhaps.

sooty I had my ears open the whole time, reading your post. Sorry it's put your friendship in such a tight spot, if it's worth it to you - sometimes time is the best healer of friendship wounds. I'm continually amazed what some time away and silence does because it's not my nature. I want to get it all out and convince the other why my way is right!!! But that does tend to drive a wedge. They definitely know how you feel, so it's not as if you backed down or were a shrinking violet, and you know how they think as well. You just disagree, plain and simple - and it's been that way ever since you were a skeptic and they were into homeopathy.

The bottom line is this: in both things they offered to you, it was out of wanting to help you, not frustrate you (even though that was the unintended result). His wife offered you the thought that you could control your health/body, which is a very empowering idea, in her mind. (I completely disagree with this notion, but that's beside the point). Then your friend offered acupuncture to you because (in his mind) it worked for them and he wants for you what you want - to be updiffed! He wants you to be as happy as they are, I can think of worse. Hope I haven't meddled too much.

---

Well today I went in for my scan and results of blood tests and it's been found that I have a genetic mutation that inhibits my ability to process folic acid which tends to increase my chances of mc. (further reason to cling to my beliefs that you can't control everything about your body) It's a bit disconcerting and DH and I wonder how much this has played a factor in our IVF failure and perhaps even the IUI cycles. On the bright side, my doc is brilliant to even have tested for it and the fix is a simple mega-dose of folic acid and B vits. Plus we caught it in plenty of time for our round of FET, so I guess all in all it was good, but a little part of me still feels broken.

Doc did say that this was likely part of the reason for the ectopic, but I wasn't seeing her at that time.

I wonder if I will notice any difference in my daily life after being treated for this.

Big day on the postings . . . where to begin? With the bedridden . . . Hey Nanoo get up if you want to . . women have been told to lie down and take it for ever . . . my clinic just said no tennis or horseriding, which considering that they, along with yoga are my favourite forms of exercise seemed a bit mean. Yoga got the thumbs up though. And LL stay there, right where you are . . . this could be serious and it's not worth it (if you were even thinking about getting up). My friend had a similar situation, unfortunately she gave birth. Her little boy is fine - but it was very touch and go for two months. They both had to stay in hospital for the rest of term (and then some) and it's amazing to me that he is completely normal. It sounds like you got there in good time though, and my mum had a similar thing with me at 7 months, as did my best friend and both pregnancies went to full term. Also, I am totally with LL about the 'quality' stuff nanoo - I just think they need to make a decision so they have worked out some guidleines (and fair enough, maybe it's better than pot luck), but that's all they are. There's no ryhme or reason to any of this stuff.

LL loved your story about your wedding dresses - I remember reading addvertisements for similar sets when I was doing a essay on the role of photography in weddings (basic theory, no one cared too much about them until they could be photographed - that was when they became a staged event as we know it). It seemed rather sad at that time that all those women were selling their unused dresses, but your story puts a positive twist on it.

I'm glad you liked my idea of a post IVF thread Bumpless, feel free to get started - though I am not going to join you quite yet. I think there is so much to deal with and still more decisions to be made - DE, Adoption, remaining childess . . . but it does need a new forum. I suggest calling it "When IVF fails . . . " or "Life after IVF . . . with no children'. I know that sounds a bit negative - but it needs to pop up when people are doing searches . . . I have already starting reading a bit about what happens to couples after IVF, apparently depression rates are very high. The good news is that the divorce rate is suprisingly low - less than 10%, much lower than the general population so ? Who knows, but I think after all this treatment and support from links like this it will be weird to be cut loose.

I am having my own little battle with an old dear friend who I have managed to offend and would like some advice from you bods. He got married a few years ago to a woman of 38 and they became pregnant pregnant pretty easily. They had a child, and then a miscarriage. Anyway the complication is that she is a homeopath, and those of you who know me know that I am quite skeptical about alternative therapies. Anyway, after the miscarriage they had about 6 months of trying and after treatment with acupuncure are now pregnant. So he writes me this email saying I must try it - look we've had sucess! Now my position on this, is considering they have had two pregnancies prior to accupuncture this is not at all conlcusive, and I just felt like he was bragging. So I didn't reply. He emailed again and I told him what I thought - that it was really thoughtless of him to compare our situations (we've been TTC for 5 years since I was 36) and now he's gone silent on me . . . I think it all comes back to a conversation I had with his wife about 5 years ago when she said in her philosophy of health "you are in control of everything that goes on in your body" which I reacted to angrily because my godmother was dying of cancer (kicking and screaming all the way). Anyway yaddah yaddah yaddah, I hate this business and how it makes you so jealous of all your friends and resentful of their successes . . . . I know you guy's will be supportive and so I'm not really asking advice I'm just venting my frustrations and having to deal with all the implications and prejudices, and blame pointed against not being fertile !!!

LL I love your wedding stories, reminds me of my first marriage versus second marriage, although we were on a beach at sunrise in a short dress (from a local tourist shop) and DH was in shorts - no shoes. He absolutely loved it!

I'm going for a scan today to make sure no folls and downregging was successful. Today should be last day of bc pills, tiny amounts of lupron inj will continue and we expect ET around Nov 6th. Next week my midsection will start to have the appearance of the olympics as the rings from the estrogen patches stick to my sides - it's a look that very few women can really carry off!

Lol mummycat - I wouldn't like to think there were two versions of my slightly autistic, commitment-phobic (yet utterly adorable and genius-brained) DH out there... but that does sound very similar! In the end, on a whim, we flew to a yoga retreat in Sri Lanka in March and got married there. For my 'real' wedding in 06 I'd had a stupidly expensive designer dress - sent it to Oxfam bridal in April after keeping it in stupidly expensive bridal storage ever since. It felt REALLY good to pack it up, along with the VW bridesmaid dresses, and give it away We bought our actual wedding outfits one Thursday late night shopping in Selfridges for a fraction of the price, scarpered off without telling a soul, and got married by crazy buddhist monks on a rock in the SL jungle, surrounded by a bunch of yoginis we'd never met before. I loved it Cost us peanuts and I didn't even want to know any of the details beforehand so the entire day was a complete surprise. Photo of us on hilarious ox-cart in my profile!

Wow LL Is your DH my DH's long lost brother? My DH was saying, "Let's get married tomorrow , i love you so much." just before DD's birth in 2006 - having stalled until this point. After long search, we found beautiful romantic castle in Ireland, all was going swimmingly and then... he had a wobble! We got married - small wedding in 2008 when he had finally calmed down! It's so good to know that I'm not the only one. Men are just plain weird!

Congratulations Horton you are living the dream. baby glue to you xx

Bumpless this must be a pretty crazy time for you at the moment with your head all over the place. Do you have any short term plans for yourself - like holidays and stuff? Take care and thanks for the sports car advice

Sounds good nanoo. My clinic advises carrying on as normal so there is a lot of conflicting advice out there. Maybe there is a balance between these two extremes?

Thanks isle. How are you doing? When does it look like your FET will take place?

LL glad to hear of your accidental relief, similar thing happened to me whilst they were trying to relief facial pain with steroids suddenly my evil backpain went away completely, unfortunately it didn't help the facial pain and then I was diagnosed with arthritis at age 32, from an old horse riding injury, or should I say horse falling injury? For now the relief of CTS and the internet will hopefully be enough to calm your wild mind. I know it's tough being told you can't do, exactly as you like!

nanoo - I wouldn't worry yourself too much about the bed rest... most clinics don't tell you to stay in bed and I agree with Bumpless that the most important thing is to stay relaxed at this point. If you ever feel your hackles rising, over anything whatsoever (even if it's just how long that kettle is taking to boil ) then talk yourself down from it and get back to feeling calm and relaxed.

I meant to post a link for you yesterday re. quality of embryos. The grading system is far from perfect and studies have shown a big differential between the way different embryologists grade the same embryo. Here is some good information on grading. I know it's just anecdotal but we transferred two "perfect" 8-cell day 3 embryos during our first cycle which failed, and 2 medium quality embryos (one 8-cell, one 6/7-cell) this time round - and both of them stuck. So don't write yourself off in any way because you had a bit of fragmentation!

Hey girls, thanks so much for your top tips on staying horizontal. Have to say, it's going really badly. I keep wanting to get up and do things. Am currently on sofa with legs up, but looking at kettle and thinking about another cuppa Not easy being bedridden when you feel completely normal.

Isle we were given a pic - I remember you telling us you were a loon to upload your pic of Bert and Ernie, but I was so new to IVF at the time (only just started on this thread too) I had no idea what I was looking at. I've just been back to look, now I know a fraction more, and they do look amazingly healthy. I can't believe it didn't work out for you - sounds like you had so much going for you, v v healthy embies :-) that bodes so well for your current cycle. I won't get your hopes up, but you can afford to be v positive :-)

My photo look different as they are only 4 cells, and one is not great qual (a bit fragmented). I keep looking at the pic trying to imagine what's going on inside. Oh, this bed rest is frustrating......need to keep busy to stop thinking....ho hm...

Yay Horton - so sorry I am so wrapped up in my own stuff I forgot to say huge CONGRATULATIONS!!! And agree with the others, how fab to have been able to bypass all the IVF drugs/etc! Take it easy.......

Thanks so much for your very generous congratulations, all of you.

'Plenty frustrated' is a good way of putting it; although even more so yesterday as I had totally rubbish internet connection - I am such an intermoweb whore! I might as well have been trying to contact the wider world by CB radio all the good it was doing. Feeling MUCH happier today, all connected via wifi and able to internet shop to my heart's content. Since the first day there is bugger all for me to do and I'm hardly being poked and prodded. Rather bizarre and hopefully non-temporary side-effect of the steroid injection they gave me to mature the babies' lungs is that my carpal tunnel has all but gone. I did ask them whether that might happen, since my UK doc had told me a steroid injection was a treatment for the CTS but that because I was pregnant (ironically ) I wasn't allowed to have it. Didn't even need to sleep with my arms on stupidly high pillows last night. Have to be grateful for small mercies...

Bumpless - the way you describe how you're feeling about DE makes so much sense to me. It IS something entirely different to having your own baby and I think it sounds very mentally sound to consider it that way and then embrace it on its own merits (if that's what you decide to do) rather than reluctantly trudging down the path. Laughed out loud at your stern advice for nanoo NOT to allow her DH to buy a sports car... hehehe.

And thanks for the reminder about asking about a mani/pedi......... hmm, now where's that all-important CALL THE NURSE button they told me about?

Bumpless sorry - I didn't mean to contradict you, ha. I didn't read your post until after I posted to nanoo. I'm sticking by my advice (mainly because it's what my FC told me!)

Bumpless glad to hear you are making steps forward and I loved your comments to LL, I'm sure she is plenty frustrated, and independent, active women HATE to be tied down!!! Thinking of you LL!

Nanoo you can get out of bed to go to the loo and to eat - that's IT! Stay as relaxed and as horizontal as possible. Give those girls a chance to snuggle in. I'm so happy chuffed for you! I remember the elation that followed my ET - did they give you a take home picture of the two they transferred??? (I'm so pathetic, I haven't taken Bert and Ernie down yet, haven't had the heart.) Oh, it seems like so long ago for me, and it was what?... 5 weeks ago???


Huge congrats for getting this far!!! There are very few that have this good of a turn out, focus on the positive and having those two (or one) dig in for the long ride! Best of luck on the tww - we'll all be anxiously waiting news, of any kind - real or imagined!!!

Thanks girls for all the hugs and support. Think I’m still a bit numb, till haven’t really reacted. Caught myself going into the ‘my body’s failed me, I think I’ll abuse it’ pit and am just about managing not to binge toooooooo much, but that’s been it so far. But mentally something has shifted – I know I’m not going to have my own genetic baby now. It made me realise that I’d been thinking of donor eggs as a backstop to IVF, ie a less favourite route to getting my family. Funnily, that’s not how I’m seeing it now. I’m not going to have what I planned, and a DE baby would be something else entirely, which maybe I’ll decide I want as an alternative, but definitely not as a substitute. Hmmm. Sooty I think that life after IVF thread is a good idea, maybe I’ll start one! (But please don’t give up hope on your next cycle yet, you never know, this could be the One Good Egg!)

Mummycat I’m so sorry your DH is having a wobble! As you’ll have gathered this seems to be amazingly common. Fortunately my DH hasn’t pulled this one, but my impression from others is that all you can do is give him space to get through it and remind him of the big picture (ie, you two with a family in 5 years, and you two old and being waited on by doting (rich) offspring in 50 years. On no account let him buy a sports car.

LL booo, how crap to be bedridden and what a scare! Although Swiss clinics do sound like they might have one up on the old NHS… perhaps they even have someone who could come and do you a mani/pedi from there….? I’m sure you’re saying through gritted teeth ‘well, it’s for the best if it’s helping the babies’ but I guess it really is… but I can feel the waves of frustration!

Horton !!! How fantastic! Congratulations to you, and please do look in from time to time to tell us how you’re doing!

Well done Nanoo on getting your two safely on board! I don’t think it’s essential to stay in bed, especially if you’re getting fed up and twitchy – relax is the key word and if a gentle stroll would help you relax, I reckon that’s what you should do.

Wow, lots happening here while I've been in hospital!! Londonlottie I'm sure you are in the best care - enjoy being looked after, am sure it's critical to relax (get lots of sleep in the bank for when the twins arrive :-)) Great your DH is stoked by twins.

Fantastic news Horton - what a relief to avoid all those IVF drugs. Congrats.

I'm just back from ET. In the end only 1 emb was "good" quality, and only 1 "average". The rest were below standard. So definitely no point of going for blasts, and nothing to freeze. Boo. But we transferred both. So there are now 2 little embies floating happily inside...hopefully!!! (why have I already decided they are girls - am really setting myself up for a HUGE fall!)

The transfer seemed to go OK (only read afterwards in ZW that I should have been v relaxed, instead I was gripping DH's hand throughout ). But I promised myself to follow ZW's "at least 3 days bed rest" but I'm finding it SO hard. I'm really uncomfortable just sitting here, feeling really frustrated, dying to get some fresh air. I've got my DS (energetic toddler who needs to climb all over me all day) booked into a childminder for the next two days so I can stay in bed. Do I really need to stay in bed? D'you reckon a bit of sitting/light walking be OK? DH is being really strict holding me down....!

LL so sorry to hear of the possible early labor - guess you have to keep those legs crossed tightly now! All the best you you and the little girls, I'm sure your Swiss wunderhospital will take good care of you for whatever length of time you are there.

Horton CONGRATS! Hope it holds out for you and you make it all the way to a healthy little cherub!

Horton congratulations! It's always lovely to hear of BFPs, and it's great that you managed to avoid IVF!

PS Duplo hope things are going well with you.

PPS For those of you who remember Glastochick who used to pop in from time to time over the various threads we've had going, I saw on another thread that her IVF worked and she's due in May.

Gosh, Lottie, very best of luck. What a stressful thing. But ten weeks in bed is not so bad in the grand scheme of things - just think how lovely and rested you will be when your babies arrive.

I hope that I am here to say goodbye as I had an unexpected BFP yesterday afternoon, after three years of trying to conceive child number two (and two years trying to conceive number one) and being booked in for IVF starting in December. So fingers crossed for the long haul for me, and many good wishes and heaps of luck to all you lovely women. Sorry I wasn't about for longer and hope things work out for you all in the best possible way.

Yes, always a good sign about type of care when the midwife asks 'would you like a glass of water?', you reply 'yes'... and the next question is: 'still or sparkling?'.

Am feeling so much better and think (hope? ) I would have been less of a stroppy teenager yesterday had my referral here NOT come straight an appalling night's sleep, up at the crack of 7 and no breakfast/drinks before my 3-hour doctor's appointment, which involved having every single visible vein plundered for booty. And just to add insult to injury, I'd booked myself in for a massage/manicure/pedicure for the first time since arriving here which was due to start at 1pm. Bottom lip well quivery as I phoned to cancel that at midday...

mummycat - I'm too used to my DH's 'wobbles'. Without going into too much detail, let's just say he had a MAJOR wobble pre supposed wedding in 2006. I won't say too much more other than that it was March this year before we finally got hitched (although wasn't too much of the old "" going on back in 06, I can tell you) . The good news is that now that we're pregnant he is the model of an excited father-to-be and upon finding out we were having twins, even proclaimed (much to my annoyance as I freaked out big-stylee as to the implications) "two babies - twice as brilliant!". Men are such weirdos.

Mummycat my DH would have preferred one embie put back, but I was just so anxious to get pregnant that two was my preference (we did do a LOT of talking about it though, researching risks of twin pregnancies, talking about practicalities of twins etc and decided that we'd prefer one but could definitely cope with two as well). By the time we got to ET we only had two blasts left, and since freezing just one isn't really an option we decided to put two back in. My clinic is big on SET for under 35s but really leave the decision up to the couple. I had one round of ICSI by the way. Glad your AF has arrived! What a relief...

Gosh Londonlottie! However, sounds like you are being monitored and cared for excellently. 10 weeks seems like a long time, but in the scheme of things...

I had a colleague who had to stay in hospital for about that stretch of time with her second. I know she got bored and emotional at times, but the end result was a gorgeous little boy.

So maybe you need to make some lists - films you want to watch, books you want to read etc. And can you knit? This could be a good time to sit around doing homely mummsy things like that

Your description of your DH's wobble made me laugh. It seems that this is a common experience - I'm so glad I shared mine.

Caitini was really interested to hear your experience. I am leaning towards having 2 put in TBH, but will obviously wait and see how successful we are. My AF came this morning (phew) so all good so far. Hope mine will be light too, like yours. How many times did you go through IVF?

Nanoo good luck with ET. Looking forward to hearing how you got on. Enjoy taking it easy afterwards. Don't suppose a glass of wine would be a good idea so I'll have one for you If choc's your thing then go for real luxury - you deserve a treat

Lottie OMG at your experience! How very stressful for you. I'm glad you're calming down (and sounds like you're getting great care - lavender compresses and all!). But I am really rooting for your cervix (er, never, ever did I think I'd type that sentence). Sending vibes that it stays doing its job for as long as possible and, in the meantime, some cyber hugs to you and a virtual heat magazine and some cadburys (though with all the swiss chocolate on offer I'm sure I'd soon lose my love for cadburys!).

MamaChris the whole one versus two thing is a big decision, and obviously one that only you and your partner can make. But I had two blasts transferred and am pregnant with a singleton. One blast was a little better quality than the other but obviously we don't know which made it. In my opinion I think if I'd gone with just one blast then I may not be pregnant now. Just wanted to offer my experience (and Lottie's right about IVF twin pregnancies being more likely to be safer due to fraternal twins with own placentas/amniotic sacs. I found the SET section of FF useful when we were doing our own pondering. Also, I think most clinics only defrost pairs of embryos, blasts or not, as the thawing process can be damaging. So if you had 8 frosties that would be (roughly) 4 FETs.

Isle meant to say that I'm very excited that your FET is going ahead so soon, especially as it sounds like your doctor is so experienced with FET. I really hope you get that BFP soon

Mummycat fingers crossed your scan on Mon shows a good thin lining. My downreg "period" was very light, and clinic weren't bothered as long my scan showed my lining was thin so we could go ahead with stims.

Nanoo good luck with ET today! It was by far my favourite part of the whole process - seeing the catheter snaking into my womb positioning our embies was so good that I even temporarily forgot about my uncomfortably full bladder!

Big waves to everyone else.

Wow it's been busy on here -

I'm in hospital at the moment and after a day of completely losing my sense of humour (never a good thing) am finally calming down. Went to the obst. yesterday morning for a routine glucose tolerance test and she did her standard 'how long is your cervix routine'. Have I mentioned that they are OBSESSED with the length of one's cervix in Switzerland? Apparently that cad Prof Nicolaides from the Fetal Medicine Unit has come up with a theory that a shortened cervix is a good indicator of preterm labour. Anything less than 3cm is a worry. At 22 weeks mine was 3.4cm. At 26 weeks it had dropped to 2.9cm. And yesterday (27w+6d) the scan showed a 2.2cm cervix. Come on cervix - what are you playing at?! Anyway I was given one hour to get some stuff and was referred to the hospital next door, pumped full of drugs (including the steroid injection to mature the babies' lungs should they make an early appearance. Am covered in plasters from the heinous number of blood samples they took from any available vein and have been told to expect at least a one week stay here for observation. Best case scenario seems to be bed rest for the entire rest of pregnancy ... worst case is having to stay in hospital from now on. FFS - that's TEN WEEKS! The upside is that the staff are being gorgeous; one of the midwives even insisted on making me lavender compresses for my bump (despite it all seeming a bit odd to me) all afternoon/evening, and I'm in a two-person room on my own at the moment and it's all very swish. So we shall see. Vague sense of humour has returned this morning and I'm feeling much more human.

Bumpless - so glad you liked Mrs Nargund. I met her at a fertility conference once (yes, DH really enjoyed being dragged to that one) and she was incredible to talk to about the whole process. I really liked her no-nonsense and pro-women stance. I can imagine she may have been a bit disgruntled on your behalf at your being pumped full of so many drugs on your previous cycles; I got the impression that was a particular bug-bear of hers. Even though it's not good news, I like that she is being honest rather than taking your money regardless. Agree with the others; do let us know if you feel like it what your plans are.

MamaChris - it's very difficult this Day 3 vs. Blasts thing. From my reading around the subject, the main reason to go for blasts is if, by Day 2-3, you still have a large-ish number of embryos which all look as though they could be the front runner. Going for blasts distinguishes the men from the boys, if you like. So the reason for a higher success rate from blasts is more that you are likely to have picked the "correct" embryo from a group rather than it having any better qualities just because it's reached Day 5. With only a few embryos to choose from, you will normally find that by Day 2-3 it is fairly obvious to the embryologists which one/two they think are the best for transfer. I'm a bit biased because I AM pregnant with twins (we had two Day 3 embryos transferred) but have to say that perhaps rather naively I really didn't think that we would be as 'successful' with our two little embies as we were. By Day 3 neither of them seemed that brilliant! Plucky little things they must have been

mummycat - nice to hear from you again and best of luck with this cycle. I totally hear you re. not knowing whether to go for one or two. Listen to what the embryologists tell you as what decision you make will in part need to be based on what you have to work with. Both the consultant embryologist and main IVF consultant at transfer advised us to put both back in and they will be basing that on all the information they have at their disposal. They will also listen to your concerns, hopefully, and taper their advice to suit your preferences. Thanks for saying I'm a good advert for twins - feeling less so now!! I would say though that if you DO get pregnant with twins from IVF, it's highly likely that you'll have the least complicated form of twin pregnancy that it's possible to have: ie. fraternal twins with separate sacs and placentas. Every time I've seen a doctor since falling pg it's been the first thing they've asked me and as soon as they realise I'm having di-chorionic/di-amniotic twins they breathe a sigh of relief. The main stress seems to be on the mother because physically it is more demanding and I would imagine my chances of avoiding stretch marks for example are very much diminished! By the way, my DH had a similar wobble during my first cycle - except HE waited until the night before EC, and announced it to me in our room in Norway. Er, yeah - thanks for that, I've been tanking up on injections for weeks now and feeling like shite... we've flown all the way to bloody Norway for this and NOW you tell me you're not sure you want to go ahead. I think they have a more 'rational' head on at these points and don't realise that for us we're being driven by all sorts of evolutionary instincts which ensure we put rationality to one side. I really do think most rational creatures would decide against having children - it's not exactly a breeze and it's a lifetime commitment! Still, it's really not what you need right now and I hope he comes good. The next day, after his wobble, when DH saw me in the recovery room after EC he had melted completely and was totally into what happened from thereon in. I think for men it's easier for them to contemplate having children if it happens 'naturally' - going through these definite and medical processes emphasises the very real possibilities at each stage that this is going to lead to a live little baby.

nanoo - best of luck for your ET. Seven having fertilised is fantastic - well done!! Day of EC counts as Day 1, so yes Wednesday would be Day 3........ fingers crossed all goes well and those little fellas get dividing in the meantime.

Hellos to all others and best of luck to everyone going through cycles etc. xx

Thank you for your words of wisdom on DH Isle Mama and Nanoo it helps. He has just had a promo at work (not finacial just status) and is really buzzing. Maybe I'll be able to talk to him about IVF again soon...

Men are pants!!

Hope you've chilled out a bit now nanoo

bumpless glad you have some definite news, but, ouch. that sounds very final unless you decide to try donor eggs/adoption. I'm not really sure what to say, but am thinking of you.

cerubina hello!

islegrin I will check with the clinic re the grade of embryos earlier on. If there was a large range, and it was clear which was the "best" embryo earlier on, then it would make sense to go with that. going for blasts we sure isolated the best embryo, but doing so again I worry we'd end up with nothing.

nanoo my clinic also suggested I come in for a day 2 transfer, after 9/11 eggs had fertalised. I said "oh, but I thought we were trying for blasts" and she said "oh yeah - the embrylogists hadn't noticed that" and we went ahead for blasts (ended up with just 1 mind). I think you need to ask about the grade of embryos you have. You can wait till day 3 to decide, but I think there's some reason that transfers never happen on day 4.

mummycat dp did the same. "I don't think I can do this" as injections started, and, then again, the day of transfer. I think the stress comes out in different ways for everyone. Having kids is life changing, and the realisation that it might be about to happen can be a bit scary. That said, it's Not Very Supportive just when you don't need it, and I don't know what to suggest - I never know how best to deal with dp when it happens. good luck with the scan. and if AF doesn't come, it's not much of a problem. my clinic just said they'd ask me to wait another 2 weeks till it did come and start then, so don't worry about that.

Thank you Duplo that makes so much sense. So is day 3 Wed? (as I had EC on Mon)....

MummyCat1, you poor love. Men! My DH did something similar back in April - I wasn't doing IVF, but I was injecting the FSH drugs, then the very night the clinic told us I was ovulating and it was time to seriously BD, he suddenly got cold feet!!!!! Worse than that, he got himself so wound up, he couldn't actually perform. Agh. In the end it turned out the drugs hadn't worked properly anyway - but still, I was so hurt. I felt exactly the same as you - that I needed to find the strength for the two of us. Anyway, here we are 6 months later and he's being a real rock through our first IVF cycle - so maybe just see your DH's wobble as a temporary blip, he'll be back to wanting heaps of kids v soon :-)

nanoo yes, it does seem like Mon EC would mean day 2 on Wednesday, I'm not sure why they would take a look at them then, but I'm sure your in very good hands. 7 embys is great! Congrats!!! Day 3 embys should be 8 cell, I think day 2 is 4 cell just make sure you pay attention to the quality report when they give you the details. If your experience is anything like ours, they gave us the report then we had to decide within an hour, then they did the ET.

How exciting for you - just keep in mind, IT ONLY TAKES ONE!

mummycat seems we might be close again this cycle, I'm going in for my scan on Thursday. I'm sorry to hear DH is wobbling! He's human, I think it would be good to talk about it, if you can. Make sure that both of you have a chance to express where your feelings are then make decisions together. I wonder if he's concerned about your health in going through the IVF?

Waves to everyone else!

Bumpless, I'm so sorry to hear about the scan, it must have been such a shock for you. Obviously in some ways it's better to know about it so you can take a more appropriate course of action, but it must be so difficult to accept. Sending you a big hug. Would you consider DE, or is this something you're not comfortable with?

nanoo, 7 embrios sounds great to me. I think your clinic are right when they say it's too early to decide about blasts. The main advantage of blasts is that at that stage you can tell better which embies have the highest potential, but depending on what happens you may be able to tell the same thing earlier on, some of your embrios might develop much better than others. My dr told me the womb is definitely the best place for an embrio, but if your 7 are still going strong on Wed it may be worth waiting to choose the best ones.

Hello Everyone. I have been watching you all over the last couple of weeks through ups and downs. and to all xxx

Bumpless I understand completely, the relief you are/were feeling. Let us know what your plans are (((hugs))) if it helps/ you need it.

Isle always such wise words from you and lots of useful information on technical details about blasts v embies. I enjoy reading your posts and am keeping everything crossed for your FET.

"Mama" good to hear that you are bravely stepping back onto the train. We are also weighing up our options and deciding whether to go for one or two embies. The consultant is keen for us to try for blasts and do SET. We'll see. I am keen to put two in as I'm frightened of this not working and then having to find more money, which may not be possible. Am also terrified of the complications that can go along with twins though Londonlottie seems like a great advert!

I am on down reg day 11. It's going well so far, though did have bit of hot flushing in the night and have had some bloating. Also tummy has a few purple and green patches on it. whoops!

I am seeing a Chinese bloke for acupuncture. He is very sweet and when I lie there with lots of little needles sticking out of me I try to imagine all the blood rushing around my ovaries. According to him my blood level is low. A lot of the stuff he said just from checking my pulses made a lot of sense to me. Every other phrase he uses starts with, "In China..." which is v interesting, but also pretty confusing. Apparently the Chinese say that MC happens because your body wasn't ready for it and they don't believe in IVF as it is trying to force the body to do stuff. So my addled brain is puzzling over this...

I have a scan next Mon and then will hopefully start stim the following Thurs. however, I am frightened that my AF may not have come before then which would cause problems. TMI alert - I had a tiny streak of pink blood last night and the night before. Nothing else. Just keeping my fingers crossed that it is taking a while to get started and that the down regging has not disrupted it.

DH seems to have gone a bit bats. He has been having a major wobble and is not really being supportive. I reckon he is just scared. He has wanted lots of children all his life. Now he is saying that he is not so sure and suddenly - completley out of the blue - announced that he is feeling unsure about this when I had already started injecting! So thanks for the emotional stress DDH [sarcastic and hyper stressed smiley]! I reckon he is having a mid-life as he seems to be looking back over his life a lot with regrets a plenty. I feel so and let down. I'll just have to be strong enough for two of us I guess.

DD has had what looks like swine flu since last Tue and is still not herself. V clingy and emotional. I am on a course in another city on Thurs so hope that she will cope without me.

Nanoo sounds like you need to slot in some "me" time to today. Good luck.

TTFN

((((Bumpless))))) sorry to hear your news. hugs to you. xxx

Sorry, me AGAIN, as have just had call from clinic. They have asked me to come in tomorrow (Wed) for ET. If EC was Monday, does that make Wed Day 2? Reading all your posts you guys are discussing Day 3 vs blasts. Am confused. Why would they want to ET so quickly?

I was really hoping for blasts, but the clinic say it's too early to make any call today as they haven't even started dividing yet (so they don't know the quality). They say 7 have fertilised (this is my first cycle, so I don't even know if that's good or bad, but ZW says it's quality not quantity). I guess the downside of going for blasts is I am less likely to have any left for freezing. Is that right? Sorry to be so hopeless and confused, I just need to be prepared for the clinic meeting tomorrow...and would be SO grateful for your help :-)

Guys, thanks SO much for all your well wishes for my EC yesterday. I'm so stressed and having a dreadful day (at exactly the time I'm meant to be relaxing to get ready for ET) -but it's not about me...

Bumpless, I'm so sorry that you have made that decision - although good to hear you being positive. It must be so hard - I really admire you for being brave...but don't force it, let yourself have a good cry if you want to. Don't wait for the stubbed toe. Is it really the end of the line? Are donor eggs a possibility? My thoughts are with you...x

Cerubina you have no idea! 874 posts is nothing . . . this is the third thread - we've had to refresh three times and it's looking like a fourth coming up. Jump on board when you are ready.

Reading this from Cerubina made me think, I am the only original member since the first thread? Are any of you oldies reading still but not posting? Nomore OAP ? Did you guys decide to enter the ring again? Oh well, my time is nearly over, but I'll make sure I see you guy's onto part 4 before hand . . .

Hello ladies

I hope you don’t mind me posting. I read through the whole of this thread yesterday (boy you can all talk – 874 posts!! ) and it felt rude not to show myself as it were.

I’m not quite in a position to dive in yet as we are just being referred, so waiting for a first appointment date, but it does look likely that IVF might be the route we have to go. We’ve been trying for two years and both I and my husband have got factors that have been damaging our chances, but last week we got the diagnosis of anti-sperm antibodies in his SA and this is a new development. Coupled with everything else, I think this means we have to accept we need help big time.

It scares the hell out of me, knowing how hard TTC is without the added strains of super-doses of hormones, financial investment and invasive treatments, but reading what you have all been saying about it (in particular the expectations we should have going in to it, and your positive attitudes) has really helped to calm me down. I’ve also cheered reading your positive outcomes, and been saddened by the disappointments.

So this is just to say hi and when I know a bit more information about our position no doubt I’ll be back to ask if I can join in properly. Good luck to all of you in the throes of treatment at the moment and I hope everything works out.

Bumpless I'm so sorry to hear that Dr Nargund was so decisive. ((Hugs)) to you and I'll keep checking here to see what plan to do next xx

x-posts with sooty heyyy, a post-IVF thread, now there's something! (Although I'm not sure I could bear it!!!) When do you start your next round of IVF?

bumpless Terrible news about the antral follicle count. (but I'm glad you are very happy with the doc) Does this mean you are out of the game for good, or just that you really need to consider donor eggs??? Still I'm crushed for you, after all that we go through, it's going to be hard at some point, when you realize that THIS part of the ride is over, but I think there's another rollercoaster just around the corner, try go see if you can locate it! Huge Hugs to you, if you should need it.

Bumpless I'm glad you went to see Nargund, but sorry the result was so decisive. You sound relieved, and I can relate to that. We are heading into our last cycle in a few weeks and a part of me has already written it off . . . maybe we need to start a post - IVF thread now ?

Hi Gals!

MamaChris well done for rallying, and welcome back to the game... If you can bear it, it would probably be worth waiting the three months. IVF really takes it out of your body and a bit of time to recover can only be a good thing. FWIW, I think I went back in too fast for my 3rd cycle and not only had a very bad result, but there is some evidence that my ovaries are permenantly knocked back as a result - although we will never really know for sure. The month will feel like ages but it isn't really, im the scheme of things! As for blasts vs 3-days, I've heard you double your chances if you get to blasts so you have about the same chance putting 1 blast as 2 day 3's back. That's still only 40% on a good day (this is where stats get dangerous as it's different for everyone), so in theory you could even put 2 blasts back and have an 80% chance of having 1 baby. Not sure how far you can pursue this but I suspect it depends on how much you want to avoid twins, and whether you'd choose no baby at all.

Hope the EC went well Nanoo and attagirl for the FET Islegrin - you did so briliantly in the last cycle I'm sure those frosties are just raring to go!

I went to Create on Saturday and it was quite an experience. I'm joining Bluebell and Sooty in the Dr Nargund fan club, she was fantastic. So fantastic, in fact, that we came back for the full-on scan (after all that wriggling out of it last week, she must love doolally TTC ladies). To cut to the chase, her very thorough scan showed a completely inactive left ovary and one very tiny antral follicle on my right. In Dr N's words, 'there is no point at all in stimulating these ovaries'. Given that in April I had 8 antral follies, I wasn't expecting it to be this bad. It seems that having 3 high dose IVF rounds this year, the last two on off-the-scale 600 units/day, may have wiped out their functionality. Or it may have always been going to happen this year. Either way, basically, I'm out of the game. Haven't really reacted yet, in fact in some respects I'm feeling relief that it's all over and I can get off the endless TTC treadmill. I expect I'll stub my toe or drop a pencil or something soon and the world will end!

Hugs and waves to all

mamachris always a tough gamble here in the AC world. If you take the risk going to blasts, then you have a better chance of being pg, as I understand and almost assured of having the singleton you want. Also, it depends a lot on the quality of the day 3 embies. On the last cycle were the majority of them 8 cells with the best quality grade or were they 3,4, 5 cells with medium to poor quality? It's further complicated by the fact that even if you freeze 8 cell embryos, if they are poorer quality they don't thaw out well.

I don't know about in the UK, but it may be similar to here - FET is only about 3000 USD versus 15,000 USD, so we could afford one or two cycles more than IVF.

Yep - I can jump right into the next cycle with FET. Of course there is still the downregging, (birth control pills for me) and I'll finish those on Thursday with a scan to make sure there aren't any new fols growing. Then continue on with lining building (Lupron in very small doses). ET expected around Nov 6th.

Re: the 3 month wait - it could be because you are going from IVF to IVF and I went from IVF to FET? My observations (purely anecdotal) from MN postings is that the UK clinics are a bit more conservative than the US ones, so perhaps that is why the 3 mo wait? OR Could be a bit of both? My doc told me at our last consult that she has a higher success rate with FET than direct IVF. She thinks it has to do with optimum estrogen levels being different for EC versus implantation. (e.g. my estrogen was 3300 for EC, which is necessary for good production and retrieval, and she says for implantation at FET they keep it to about 400.)

Welcome back viksam hope your first IUI does the trick for you!

Hi Viksam, I've done a number of IUI's and I must admit shrinking follicles doesn't sound good. On the positive side rememeber that each cycle is different, and our bodies react differently on each cycle. I myself have had very different responses on the same type of drugs and same dose. So even if this cycle is abandoned, try again. I've had an abandoned cycle and lots where I got a good sized follices.

Hello everyone, I used to post on here what seems like years ago.....actually it probably was!! Jumping back on for some moral support if possible. Im half way through my first IUI and at the, scan to see how long they are, stage! Unfortunatly not much seems to be going to plan, my follicles have shrunk since the first scan so injection dose has been increased, twice, there has also been a little bleeding. Its a worry since my PCT only fund three IUI's. Poppy Im a newby to all this so am happy to talk to u about it from my perspective. I know some of u guys have been through this and could probably put a different perspective on things for me.
Cheers guys xx

sorry have been off this thread for a couple of weeks, coming to terms with last cycle.

nanoo good luck with the EC Monday! It's uncomfortable, and a bit embarrassing, but not truly awful. I had no painkillers, just a very nice nurse holding my hand, and was fine

islegrin very good luck with the FET cycle. can you start a FET cycle quite quickly after the IVF? my clinic want me to wait 3 months between cycles.

well we've decided to step back onto the rollercoaster for one more ride (the last we can afford). and I have a dilemma... blasts or day 3s? we are going for single embryo transfer (don't want twins, almost as much as we do want a baby!) so blasts make sense, but this cycle only 1 of the 9 day 3 embryos made it to blast, so it sounds really risky - we could go through this final cycle and never gt to transfer. otoh, if we put back just 1 day 3, and froze the other 8, and it didn't work, I don't think I could stop knowing I had 8 maybe-babies in the freezer. and a potential 8 rounds of FET sounds impossible (emotionally and financially...)

I've never enjoyed gambling and this seems one of the biggest ever.

Thanks so much Isle - the consultant said to go for Blasts, but from his description it seemed like the eggs/embryos have to be v strong to last that long. I'm 38 so am not expecting anything spectacular. I guess if they don't last to be blasts they just pop them back in anyway. Thanks for all your support :-) am indeed loving the upswing!!!

WorstWitch glad you have found the thread to be helpful, best of luck to you and if you do pursue AC, don't be a stranger. This group is pretty saavy when it comes to everything involved, if it can be done - chances are there is at least one of us who has tried it!

nanoo great results! Those that are 16mm and above should have a good shot at being mature by Monday. EC is soooo exciting and a bit scary. I heard everyone say it was really no big deal, but until you actually go through it yourself you won't think so. I was given anesthesia (just an IV) so I was out for about an hour and bingo it was done! It was sore to sit, laugh, cough or sneeze for two days, but tylenol was enough to help. Then you will find out 24 hours later how many fertilized! very exciting, then even more ET!!! Are you going day 3 or blasts? and yes, if it doesn't work you are in for a big fall, but that's anytime we try this AC thing, so for now ENJOY THE UPSWING! Besides, if it works, it will be fantastic!

Best to all

Was directed here by LondonLottie and Caitni and have spent the past 3 hours reading this thread.
Didn't seem right to then go away without saying hello and wishing you all the best of luck.

I have a DD already and am considering assisted conception for a second DC. Have found this thread immensely useful in giving me an idea of what to expect if we do go down the assisted conception route, so thank you!

Anyway, sending you all good vibes for BFPs

Sorry Poppy I can't help you on IUI - but the girls on this thread are v v kind with support and advice (wow Isle - 5 times - that's v brave).

And great Isle you've found the strength to hop back on the rollercoaster again - this could be your time :-)

Well, my scan this morning went OK (about 12 folls, although quite a spread of size - the smallest 11mm which I guess won't mature, but the biggest 19mm). My real excitement was a lining of 11mm. Not sure if that's normal with IVF (it's my first full IVF cycle), but it beats anything I've had before. So I have everything crossed with EC on Monday. Crazy and irrational, I know, but I feel SO excited. Is that normal?! I'm building myself up for such a fall, aren't I

Would love to keep chatting to you all about it - even if there aren't any cycle buddies at the mo...x

poppy there are a few of us in here that have had IUI. Everything seems nerve wracking when you start, but the injections and procedure aren't that bad. Just take it one step at a time. Several women here have also done diet, excercise and acupuncture.

If you have any specific questions, just let me know, I've been through it 5 times, but with bad tubes, it didn't work for me.

Duplo thinking of you and hope your Beta is continuing to RISE!

Well all - I'm starting lupron inj today for our FET. I'm still on the bc pills for another week, but the lupron is supposed to help with the lining... so here goes, again!

Bumpless I hope you go ahead with seeing Nargund. Re costs, yes there's not much in it. But if you are a low responder (as I am) the drugs have proved irrelevant, whether I take a small, less invasive dose or a mega one I get the same result! Also, you don't have to downreg which takes a lot of the misery out of the process. On very small doses of FSH I have had between one and ten follicles but only ever two eggs. On the maximum dose - same result. To my mind the reason to do mild IVF is when the conventional process isn't working anyway . . . I can't remember where you stand with this. It is frustrating to be going through all this for only one or two eggs but then I went through drug hell for the same result (or worse) as well, so that's the motivation. It does keep you a bit saner not to downregg - that was the worst bit for me, and one time it just sent me into menopause and I didn't ovulate for three months . . . so anyway, that's why I do it despite it not being essentially any cheaper.

Whoops meant to put that the consultation is for IUI

Hello guys - just popping into your tread, I have been ttc for the last 4 years with 1 MC. I am due to start first consultation in Novemember, just wondering if any of you had any advice or any experience of this???

bumpless the natural ivf they do there is cheaper, by quite a bit. Obviously only one egg though and the risk is you dont get one thats viable....

Sooty and Bluebell , many thanks for your messages about how good Create is - I'd gone into a panic and you calmed me down. The upshot is that the admin lady I'd been speaking to called me back and said she'd made a mistake, we only needed to pay for the consultation now and we'd do the scan and all the rest of it if we were recommended to go ahead with mild IVF. Feel better!

Although this prompted me to look more into the prices of everything, and it looks like the only real difference between mild IVF and conventional IVF is the cost of the drugs. Silly me - I'd been thinking that mild IVF would be a cheaper alternative, so still might not be able to go back for another hit

Duplo when I was opening the thread, by chance I landed on your message back in July when you'd just had your nasty meeting with your doctor who said your eggs might not be up to scratch, leaving you very upset - how lovely the way things have turned out! Can I ask, did you have an AMH done - sorry if you've already said and I don't remember!

Nanoo very glad to hear that your follies and lining are making good progress - grow grow grow!

Hello and thanks so much for all your kind messages. I'm so glad that my good news has been giving you hope. The drs told me that it would be difficult for me to get pg with my own eggs, and there you go. Obviously it's still early days but I got further than ever before. So please don't give up hope when you get bad news at the clinic. I had so many bad news over the last 9 months since I went down the AC route, I have lost track of the number of times I left the clinic in tears - I was getting quite convinced that DE would be the only way to go for me. I'm so hoping that this will work out now. Luckily I have two birthdays to organise this week (dd and dp) and I'm busy at work, so I don't have too much time to worry about the scan.

sooty, I too was searching the internet after the clinic recommended GIFT to me, and all I could find were articles saying it was old fashioned and only used by strict catholics these days (because it's less interfering with nature I guess). Anyway, what the dr told me that the laboratory is quite a harsh environment for an embrio and that in their experience fertilisation and embrio survival rates are better in utero and therefore they recommend it for women who only produce a few eggs or where egg quality is poor. It is fairly invasive - I still have stitches - and afterwards I said I wouldn't do it again, but now given what's happened I have changed my mind and think it was obviously totally worth it.

Great news about your scan nanoo, that sounds very positive.

Girls, just wanted to say a big thank you to all who helped with my "lifting post ET" stress (Isle, KC11, Bumpless Mamachris). Reading your posts has helped big time. Am now realising how amazing the support is on this thread (sorry, that's a bit cheesy for MN isn't it?!) - thank you all so much. Have just received the ZW book from Amazon - also a great recommendation from Bluebell, thank you.

Had my Day 9 scan today - lining is 5.7mm...which is great (for me anyway, lining always been a bit of an issue). And quite a few follies on each side. Fingers crossed for more growth :-)

Fantastic news Duplo. Also, can you tell me why your Dr recommended GIFT for low responders? I have had a bit of a google but can't find anything definate.

Bumpless I had a consultation with Geeta N before I left the UK. I was very impressed with her and am following pretty much her protocol over here in Oz (my Dr was of the same view). I would definately have gone ahead with her if we'd stayed in the UK, and her rates for over 40's and low responders are really very good. Hope that helps.

Duplo thats fantastic news! so happy for you. Take it easy now, wishing you and your little bean all the best

Bumpless that is odd, Ive always paid for scans after I have them there. They take the money at the end of your appointment not before. Did they give a reason for money upfront request?

Hmm, on my 2ww I ended up cycling up a big hill to work most days as it coincided with my car being off the road - went v gently but probably wasn't advisable! And I didn't get pregnant (possibly not just because of the cycling tho!)

OMG, just had big shock. Have been happily looking forward to appt with Create on Sat, to find out whether a mild cycle was an option for us. Got a call today at work, confirming the appt, and asking if she could take payment of over £400 now. Eek! I was expecting to pay somewhere between 0 and £150, different clinics seem to have different approaches for an initial consultation, but Create want to do a scan to check loads of things I've already had scans for and could tell her the answer right now. Don't mind paying if we're really going to do a cycle, but I know I'm so borderline that I really wanted an informed opinion first and can't really go chucking that sort of dosh around. Especially if she just tells me what I already know, ie: it probably won't work but you can have a go if you really want to - don't need to pay £400 to be told that! oof, that's better.

Still thrilled at your progress Duplo , we all really need this to work for you!

woohoo for duplo

nanoo - I was told by my clinic "life as normal, but avoid hang gliding". when I conceived ds, I was commuting daily to work by bicycle (60 mins a day) and swimming twice a week, though I did stop running, as I thought all that jiggling about might dislodge something. this time I have a 20 month old too, and while I tried to lift him a bit less, it just wasn't possible (he got ill and clingy). reading up on it, I could find no evidence linking lifting or lack or it with pregnancy rates. However, I did feel like I should make some effort. I read the days to be most careful are 6-9dpo (when implantation is expected to occur) so I focused on these. good luck!

Congrats Duplo. Really glad to hear those levels are doubling as they should. Such a big achievement to get this far. Well done you.

nanoo - definitely no heavy lifting. Nothing heavier than a kettle. Ask your mum to help out for those two weeks. Sadly even though I did virtually nothing except walk, eat, sit at office desk and sleep during my two week wait, I did not conceive/implant. Take really good care not to lift anything. My clinic's advice said no hoovering, no lifting, no exercise (walking ok though). Obviously, don't take any tablets or use any unnecessary chemicals, even cleaning chemicals, they are so bad for you. I had bad gnat bites but would not use the gel with witch hazel/tea treet oil in it as I wanted to be certain I'd not poisoned my body/womb. Silly I know. good luck with the egg collection and transfer. We're rooting for you.

Feeling SO happy now - Duplo well done :-) and thank you (selfishly) for giving us all hope.

Also, a big thank you to Isle for giving your opinion about the lifting post ET. I've been getting really stressed about what to do - DS is almost (embarrassingly) 3st (that's 40lbs to you!), and being only 22 months needs lifting constantly. I mentioned it to a doc at the clinic who just said I could sit on the floor with him if he needs a cuddle (fine I thought, but what about high-chairs, cots, baths, car seats etc..!). Looks like I'm gonna have to ask my Mum a BIG 2 week favour!

Just a quickie cos at work - just wanted to say I'm over the moon Duplo , fantastic result, well done! I'm sure you won't be able to stop worrying till you've got some real tangible proof (Like holding your new-born baby) but we're all rooting for it, and you!!!!!

Duplo congratulations! Great news about the beta levels . Will continue to keep my fingers crossed for you but for what it's worth, I had precisely no symptoms (bar sore boobs from the progesterone pessaries) until about 8 weeks so don't fret about lack of symptoms. And also please try to put worries about "duff" eggs from your mind. I mean, how can they actually tell what your egg quality is? Having a low response does not automatically mean poor quality eggs and I think getting pregnant means your eggs must be pretty eggscellent (sorry, couldn't resist the bad pun ).

Waves to everyone else. Isle, Lottie we've having a grey rainy Monday morning here so I hope you two are faring better with the weather!

Duplo - CONGRATULATIONS! I had a sneaky suspicion it wasn't game over but it must be feeling a bit more 'real' now you've seen the hCG levels doubling as they should. Fantastic news! I know it's hard to do, but try to forget about the comments which have made you think you have duff eggs. They're not that duff now, eh? So pleased at least one of those little fellas has fertilised, is now a wonderful little bundle of life-containing cells, and is burrowing down for the long haul as we speak. It's doing its best, remember, and the odds are stacked in your favour that this will work out. That 7 week scan is such a milestone and I remember it well - until you've seen the flickering heartbeat you don't want to get too excited. Please take it easy over the next couple of weeks but don't stop posting

Wow, Duplo! Congratulations! That all sounds incredibly positive. Well done!

Duplo I'm so happy to hear the good news, I know you will still want to be cautiously optimistic until your 7 week scan, but for now CONGRATS!!! <whew> Please don't feel embarassed, we all can imagine being in your shoes, after so much - to hear the clinic say the Beta is too low would be crushing! Glad you're back on top again.

nanoo my doc advised no lifting over 10 lbs for the whole tww. Sounds like your DS weighs more than that - so I'm siding with your DH, sorry chica! Better safe than sorry.

Bumpless aww, shucks - thanks. <doe-eyed emoticon> I'm not sure what all the blood tests are for, I looked at the list but it's full of terms I have never heard before. These are for conditions that would cause multiple miscarriages (I hate even writing that phrase!) That's got to be one of the worst situations ever and I feel for those who have gone through it. They are just doing the tests as a precaution, so I'm not getting wound up over it. In fact, I'm not even googling all of the terms! Just like when they told me they were going to test my cyst for cancer, I just told myself it's just a precaution and it's going to be nothing - and of course it was, nothing.

I'm still excercising but something is happening with my body that I don't understand, but I just need to wait it out. As long as I excercise and eat right, eventually it should start coming off again, right?

MamaChris There is a new thread that talks about conceiving naturally after multiple failed IVF attempts. Not trying to put false hope in your ear, but it does happen on rare occasions.

KC, NPA, and sooty I hope you are all hanging in there.

Hello, feeling a bit about freaking out and writing off this pg so quickly. My beta yesterday came back at 420, well over twice the level it was 2 days ago. It's still a bit low, but the dr said that as long as it doubles every 48 hours they were happy. So I am still pregnant and have been booked in for a scan on october 13 (luckily not a friday!).
Phew. I was so relieved after the nurse called me yesterday I went all dizzy and had to lie down on the sofa. sorry for going all panicky but on my clinic's board on ff there were so many chemical pregnancies recently. Also, since the consultants went on about the bad quality of my eggs I'm quite worried that that means my miscarriage risk is much higher than average. I don't think I will feel properly pregnant until I had this scan, until then I just feel like I just made it up.

Thanks so much, everyone.

I do appreciate the perspective from those in the know!

Would anyone like to recommend a particular ZW book? Or are they all much the same?

Thanks Bluebell - gonna buy a copy asap (have only a week before EC!).

In the meantime, just had a bit of a heated chat with DH :-( who thinks I should get help with DS throughout the 2WW because the clinic has advised me not to lift heavy loads post ET. Did anyone else get that advice (I mean no heavy lifting)? My DS is SERIOUSLY heavy, so for bath/high-chair/car seat etc.. I was thinking of getting my Mum to help for a few days. But DH thinks I shouldn't lift DS at all throughout the 2WW. Seems a bit excessive - what d'you reckon? Would love thoughts from anyone who has done this before....thanks so much :-)

nanoo I only read it after my ET! wished Id read it before as it gives you so much useful info and advice. Luckily I got great info, advice and most importantly support, from the ladies on this forum Next cycle I plan to do some acupuncture.

Hi everyone

Duplo I was literally clenching everything reading your posts, my buttocks haven't been so tight since I was 18! I'm hoping and hoping your blood test was good and you're feeling better, please tell us soon, and sending you a tanker-load of stickydust...

Isle I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again - your attitude is brilliant! Sounds like your clinic is brilliant too. Are they testing for natural killer cell-type reactions? My clinic put me on a low steroid dose as a precaution against this, sounds like a good belt-and-braces approach.

LL LOL to the note next to the gin bottle! Sounds like a good idea. And I so hear you about the whole personality clash under stress thing, especially when tired/hormonal/both. How about taking an evening off from flat-sorting, making a pact not to talk about it, and going out on a date night? Loving the twins kicking along to music too.

Everywoo hi there. I haven't had IUI so you should definitely listen more to those who have, but just from what I've gathered, its hit rate seems to be rather low, so you may want to ask whether you can go straight on to IVF if time is a factor (although that does mean subjecting yourself to a possibly un-nec intensive procedure - no easy answers here!) Good luck.

Lorelie what horrible luck! Hope your clinic are supportive.

MamaChris so sorry you're feeling rough. And I know exactly what you mean about the additional pressure of last chance saloon. We're on the final straight too - won't start getting stressed till I know whether we can go ahead or not, but suspect I will then. But you're only recently past the last cycle, so do give yourself some time and pampering to feel better!

Horton good luck for December! I can recommend all the ZW books (probably only need to get one though although I went to town!), they're very helpful and clear, and full of good advice.

Bluebell I hadn't realised you were at Create! Doh! that's very reassuring, thank you. I'm glad you've made a plan too - good luck for January!

I'm just trying to eat sensibly, not drink too much (failed at that one this WE) and like Isle shift that stone, in prep for one last bash. Very impressed by the ZW nutritionalist, who's put me on some deep sea fish extract called Stabillium, for 'adrenal support', ie to stop me being such a stress bunny with all the hormonal upheaval that causes, and it's amazing! Feel much calmer, and had 2 manic days of dealing with the press at work last week which would normally make me really nervous and I breezed through it. Any of you ladies who struggle with stress, definitely one worth asking about!

Hi Horton - don't feel as though you're being ignorant; I think we all felt that way before or during our first cycle. I only found out about short/long protocol whilst I was waiting to test after my first IVF, because I met up with someone who had done the short protocol. Standard procedure with many clinics is to start you off with the long protocol and gauge your response to it - short protocol is often used in subsequent cycles if your response wasn't as good as expected.

Good luck to all at the moment............

Thanks so much. I will get a copy. I've looked at it on Amazon before and wondered if it's worth the outlay but if it's genuinely helpful then I will buy a copy.

I googled and it seems that long protocol is indeed what I'm having. Lots of differing opinions out there! It seems I will have to do plenty of research to inform myself fully before we go much further.

Bluebell6 that sounds really interesting - did you follow the Zita diet advice? Anything you found particularly helpful?

Hi Horton
Long Protocol is when you shut down the ovaries and start them back up again, so you down reg first. Short is when you start on cd2 just with stimming. When I did my first cycle Ailz recommended I read Zita West book "Fertility and Conception". I would encourage you to get hold of a copy before embarking on your ivf cycle. I got mine from the library and it explains everything really clearly and gives loads of extra advice on everything from diet to acupuncture. hth

Thanks, guys.

bluebell, long protocol? What does this mean? Am now away to google and find out. I feel so ignorant about all this. Would be great to have a cycle buddy! My scans etc are all booked. I have a down regulation scan on 11th Jan followed by scans on 18th and 20th to monitor and egg collection provisionally arranged for 22nd Jan.

Duplo The line is still there so keep positive, got my fingers crossed for your bloodtest tomorrow. As others have said, not everyone gets symptoms straight away.

Lorelei really sorry to hear about the chickenpox, what terrible timing for you. Have you spoken to your clinic to see what they can do? You may not get the drugs money back, but you should get something. mamachris mentioned coasting for a few days, its always worth double checking to see what they can do. During my first cycle of ivf they wanted to abandon it on cd9 and go for iui, I said no, and two days later everything was ok for ivf!

evey I had 2 iuis to conceive my ds. You can do it with or without drugs. Some clinics give you clomid or similar then an hgc trigger shot, or some, like mine, just monitor you and scan to check follicle then you do hgc trigger and have the iui 36 hrs later. Any further questions ask away.

Bumpless good luck for your appointment at Create. My last cycle was with Geeta, I like her philosophy, and she really knows her stuff.

Hi Horton and welcome. We may be cycle buddies as Im going for a 2nd cycle of ivf in January. It sounds like youre on the long protocol if you start with the pill. Frightened happy and hopeful sums it up beautifully.

duplo hang in there, and please let us know what tomorrow's blood tests reveal. We're all with you in spirit.

evey I've had 5 IUI, but they were unsuccessful for me (we think due to partially and fully blocked tubes) so if you have any particular questions about the meds, timing, or what happens - feel free to ask away. It's not that bad, the injections seem daunting at first, but really we all just follow directions, then google and obsess over everything we notice, feel or think! That's prety much how assisted conception works! If you have no diagnosed issues, it will probably work for you - give it at least 2-3 attempts though as the success rates are about 15%-20%.

Horton welcome out from the shadows. Congrats on taking the big step into IVF. Frightened, happy and hopeful - truer words were never spoken. I think most of us know just where you are.

MamaChris I know excactly what you mean, whenever I've taken any step in this AC process, in the back of my mind I always knew there were more serious things we could do or try. When I finally went to IVF, somehow those options were disappearing as I was now on the "final step". It's a lot to absorb, but as much as you can - just focus on what might be and how good the outcome could be (either way). I KNOW this is not easy, but for my husband's sake - I've really had to train myself to do this lately. As much as I want a baby, I have to realize how wonderful our life is together even without one, and I've had to make a mental list of all the benefits of not having kids, just so I'm not devistated IF it doesn't work out. My husband needs to know that I'll be ok - eventually. And we'll still be able to live a happy life! Even as I type it - I hate the idea, but I know that's what I have to prepare for just in case this doesn't go the way we all want it to. I'm not sure if this is our last cycle of FET or if we'll go the extra step of one more (to use up all of our embryos). But we are close to the last chance too - and I feel the pressure.

All the best
xx

I've been lurking as I don't know much about what you're all doing and it's hard to make sensible posts when I don't yet understand it all. But duplo, every pregnancy is different and every baby is different. If the line is still there, you are still currently pregnant and as you say at least you know you can be. Wishing you the very best of luck for tomorrow. If it helps at all, I had not one symptom in my pregnancy with DD - no sickness, nothing. I felt like I was a complete fantasist until the first scan.

Very sorry to hear about the other negative tests.

My news is that we will be having IVF starting with the pill in early December. Am frightened, happy and hopeful all at once.

Lots of luck to everyone else. And I do like reading lottie's posts as a success story. Hope I am as lucky as you!

glad you're doing ok duplo. when you say "not getting any darker" do you mean just that or are they getting lighter? they're different you know (not trying to patronise!) - there's a limit to how dark the test can ever get - it only has so much dye in it. anyway, I had tests that got lighter and darker again, depends on the dilution of your wee as well as amount of hormone. good luck with your blood test tomorrow. have no internet this weekend, but will check first thing we're home, and will be thinking of you.

myself, feeling pretty rough. we can afford just one more go. realise we're lucky to be in that position, but if it fails, then that's it, forever. really don't like the feeling of last chance saloon hanging over me.

lorelei, equally, I don't know. what a terrible shock. but I was told that if I was hyper-stimulated on this last cycle, they would have tried to let me "coast" for a few days for things while things calmed down before doing the trigger injection. can you ask whether this is an option for you?

duplo - please hang in there. It must be hard for those of you who've been pregnant before because you have something to compare it with... if you hadn't you might think it was normal not to have pg symptoms. There's a woman on another thread I post on who's just (unexpectedly) found out she's pregnant and she is in utter shock because she also has no symptoms, no sore boobs, nothing - unlike her previous two successful pregnancies. But she's now 7 weeks and all is looking good. Have you thought about trying one of those digi tests to see whether the hCG is rising? After I got my positive (with a First Response) I tested with a cheapie and was alarmed to see that it only showed a very faint line, despite being FMU and having had a far more prominent line the day before. It's one reason why I moved onto the digitals, and although some people say they drive them mad it helped put my mind at rest. Despite having two little embryos burrowing in and releasing hCG my hormone levels only increased at the normal rate - and even then just about. I so hope this works out for you. For now you are pregnant and I am keeping everything crossed that it stays that way.

evey - unfortunately I've never had IUI although some of the girls on here have and may be able to help you.

lorelei - what bad luck to have contracted CP at this time. You poor thing. I would be surprised if it counted as a cycle - from what I know it's only counted if you get to the egg collection stage, although of course this may vary clinic to clinic. Best of luck.

Thank you so much for your messages everyone, your support made me really happy today.
Did another test this morning, and line is still there - so I am still pg - but still not getting darker. and no symptoms at all. Oh well, I guess I will know more after my blood test tomorrow, but really I feel like it's all over already. But now that I'm over the worst disappointment I'm a bit better, at least I know that I CAN get pregnant, so if this doesn't work out I may well do it again. but it would have been so nice...Had a big cry in the office yesterday, I think everyone was quite embarrassed, they all kept their heads down and pretended not to notice.

How are you feeling KC11, islegrin and mamachris? Hopefully things are getting a bit easier for you?

I don't know the answer to your question lorelei, but just wanted to say I'm so sorry about what happened, that is just such bad luck! I really think they should let you have another go, it's none of your fault after all and the most expensive aspect of the ivf is the EC/ET which you won't be having now.

Advice needed please- am on my first cycle of gonal f and was on day 17 was due to go to hospital on Sunday then to take hcg trigger shot but today I was diagnosed with chicken pox and the cycle was cancelled- we were told not to dtd just in case.
Does anyone know if this will be counted as a cycle iykwim? am so gutted....

Hi Ladies DP and I are on 5th cycle of clomid but our PCT have told us that they will only give us 12 months of help then we are on our own as I have DD from a previous. we are considering looking at IUI, We have no fertility probs I am fine and DP had a slightly low morphology but they said it was prob down to his white blood cells and have him a course of tabs. Does any one know anything about IUI and if so would it help us. thanks ladies xx

What a nightmare Duplo - we're all hoping so much for you....hang in there x

((((duplo))))
x

Oh duplo catching up on this thread I was at your news but am now at what you're going through...hang on in there, as things can still come good and your body has done so incredibly well to get this far. Am keeping my fingers tightly crossed for you xxx

duplo I remember these early days - so so hard not to panic. I think I spent the first 6 weeks of ds's pregnancy convinced I was about to miscarry. lines got lighter on tests, symptoms would disappear for 2-3 days at a time, then pop back for just a few hours. terrible. but try to hang in there - sometimes symptoms do just come and go. keeping every every thing I can crossed for you.

duplo - echoing the others, hang in there. Thinking of you and hope it all comes good. Take it as easy as you can. xx

Hang in there duplo.

duplo my heart goes out to you! Even as I saw that you were the last to post, I actually crossed both fingers and said please let her still be positive!!! I'm so saddened for you that's just complete and total shite! I'm so sorry you have to go through this uncertainty and crap! I wish there was something I could do. (and I know you won't even read this for days because you've got to get away from here for a bit) For what it's worth, I'm with you and I know it will be hard to even think about doing this again. Just give yourself permission to feel like shite for a while - however long it takes. Take good care of yourself!

sorry in advance as this will be a me post today, cannot manage anything more at the moment. Things are not going well here. For the first few days the lines on my pg tests were getting stronger and I even got a few symptoms so I allowed myself to daydream a bit. One day I took dd out for a walk and she took her doll out in a pram and told everyone this was her "baby brother james" and I was so happy that I would be giving her a real baby brother or sister soon. Then the last 3 days the line hasn't gone stronger at all, actually I think it was slightly lighter this morning. I went for the blood test this morning and they called me at 5 to say that my levels were a bit too low at 167 and to come back on sat. This would not worry me too much on its own but together with the diminishing line and also no pg symptoms today I feel I know where this is leading. I guess it's positive that I have made it this far at least, but I'm so so low today. I'm not sure I'll be able to go through this again.

flibberty - great to hear from you!! Sorry to hear you're feeling down - hope you get some answers at your appointment re. the health issues. I don't think I know of one friend who hasn't felt down shortly after giving birth to their second child... it must be very overwhelming. Especially if you're struggling with the breastfeeding. I remember you saying that there is a link between PCOS and having problems breastfeeding but hoped you might escape that. Just remember you're doing the best you can and cut yourself some slack. I really really want to BF the twins but think I might write myself a note along the lines of "DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN!" and put it somewhere useful so I can turn to it in a dark moment (next to the gin bottle, perhaps?)

duplo - have been thinking of you and hoping all's well in duplo's world. Did you retest?

nanoo - welcome to the thread Hope you're getting on alright with the Gonal-F: I didn't find the injections too bad and the pens make things so much easier than it could be. Is this your first cycle of IVF?

bluebell - I meant to answer your question re. "what should you do?" earlier. I think I agree with duplo and that I would try again. Some clinics do a '3 cycles for the price of 2' deal where you pay upfront and I think that takes the financial pressure off each cycle a bit (just a BIT), although it's obviously quite a big sum to lay out up front. I'd be keen to understand whether a higher drug dose would (in theory, anyway) lead to a better response - obviously that's what they think but I think I'd research that to see whether it's likely that you'll get more eggs that way. Best of luck with the upcoming IUI...

Bumpless - I think that's a great decision to go to Create. I've heard such positive reports about Geeta and I love her approach to IVF.

isle - sounds like a great follow-up appointment. Especially the fact that they're offering to do blood tests just to make sure there wasn't an implantation issue that could be resolved. They sound very on the ball.

Hi to NPA, gingerwine, sooty, and KC (plus any others)... and thanks to those who've been asking after me! All going okay here although we're both pretty stressed out by this move and being quite snippy with each other which I'm hoping will soon pass. For all his qualities (am almost having to spit that word out at the moment!) dearest OH gets very grumpy during stressful events such as house moves. I try to remind myself it's the flip side of having a geeky superbrain of a husband - in a vaguely autistic fashion he gets disturbed by too much change and frankly is less than great company. He's been working his arse off to sort things out, but at the same time sniping constantly that things aren't how he wants them, etc etc. Add to that a very hormonal LL who's quite intolerant and answers back and um... yes, quite a few arguments this past couple of weeks. We're now installed in the new apartment which is very swish and I'm slowly picking my way through the unpacking. A friend is flying over this weekend to help and as I type I have two young Swiss apprentices helping to build some IKEA furniture for us to get us going. Have been sleeping on mattresses on the floor for the past 3 days and my old lady joints can't take it for much longer! Having to haul my sorry carcass up and out of bed three or four times a night to go to the loo is a less than dignified affair, shall we say...

The nursery is full of boxes but SHOULD soon contain two cots, a Stokke change station (treated myself), and a few bits I bought from Ebay/Gumtree before we came out here. I still can't get my head around it all. The girls kick away constantly - they were especially enjoying listening to the Adam & Joe show on 6 Music yesterday on my laptop...

Anyway - spose I'd better go and offer these hardworking teenagers a drink of fizzy pop or something... xx

DUPLO blood test was officially Tuesday, right? Do tell, is it for real??

KC11 I sure hope you are coming out of the hormonal slump, it's so much better on the upswing than the downswing!

LL are you putting your feet up and resting or are you nesting in your new home?

Caitni still traveling?

Nanoo if I can manage it, losing a stone would certainly help out - so I'm going to give it a go. I think in my case losing weight would help ttc - and it's approved by FC, so I'm alright - actually, I'm happy again! Better than alright. Best of luck for mid October, we'll be here with info and opinions. It's not so bad, just seems scary the first time through it all. Just take it one step at a time.

<click clack click clak>

I'm on the uphill climb of the rollercoaster again! Anyone want to join me???

Talk with my doc went well - she and everyone else were suprised at the BFN, and we discussed what we could do to better our chances. She gives us really good chances for the FET, they just had 8 of 9 FET go positive this week!!! She wants me to do some blood tests for some non-stick problems just in case, and we're off on our next cycle - transfer scheduled for first week in November!!! Just happens that my mum and aunty will be here, so that'll be fun/exciting/weird!

Birth Control pills - to stop my system from making folls for a month, then they start thickening lining meds - for frozen embryo transfer (FET).

Off to work out for a bit!

Thank you guys for being so welcoming [grin to all] - it's great to have your support. To answer your questions - I'm on something called Long Day 2 - and I started FSH injections on Monday (that's the Gonal-F I mentioned). If things go to plan EC will be around 12th Oct. It's great to know you'll be here along the way - thank you :-)

Dying to hear from Duplo...? Any news? Really hope all's going well.

Islegrin, great to hear you're feeling better (don't get TOO obsessed with that weight loss - give yourself some time to have fun too!! - and also weight loss won't help your fertility!). What are BC pills? That's amazing you might be allowed to start another cycle so soon :-)

Hi Ladies - thanks for all of your well wishes. I was still feeling anxious and "on the edge" Monday morning so I called the doc to see what might help. I'm now convinced it was hormone withdrawl rather than genuine sadness, because by Monday evening I was MUCH better. I slept all the way through the night, but woke up at 3:30 with DH and couldn't go back to sleep - but still, that is improvement and I feel fine today. KC I hope you've seen marked improvement in the moods as well.

I excercised this morning and I'm getting back on my weight loss obsession instead of IVF obsession. I have my post-IVF-failure meeting with doc tomorrow afternoon, and DH will go too - to discuss the new plan. (fingers crossed for mid nov!!!) In any event I start the evil BC pills tomorrow for IVF #2.

Duplo still waiting to hear BFP confirmation! My thoughts have been with you for days!!!

Bumpless glad to see you back and with a plan in hand. Best to you!

hello Ladies, and sorry for neglecting you. I needed to take some time offline to sort out my head.

First Duplo I'm over the moon!!!!! WHOOOO WHOOO WHOOO for your BFP!!!!! This is fantastic, and I'm so delighted to see a goal scored from the low responder corner.

Islegrin , KC11 , MamaChris (Hi! we haven't 'met' yet) I'm so sorry. I was so hoping it was going to work for you. Don't beat yourselves up about being blue and showing it. I cried most days for 6 weeks after the last IVF failed - I think sometimes you just need to feel what you feel.

Flibberty [waves]! Good luck beating the baby blues. I'm sure the mixture of hormones, lack of sleep and all the extra responsibility isn't a picnic, even though you've wanted it for so long. I hope your DH is doing a good job of spoiling you! Thanks for dropping in with news of little Louis (cute name!).

LL I bet you're relieved that you've got all your moves over for a while! Have you dared to start getting the nursery ready yet?

So following two really tough months attempting to come to terms with 3 failed IVFs, but not being sure donor eggs was for us, we have decided to look into one more attempt, but not conventional IVF. I am finally reconciled to that not being for me. We have an appointment with Create in 2 weeks, to talk about mild IVF. Since I'm such a low responder it seems pointless to bung my body full of the maximum drug doses for no result. We'll see what they say. But anyway, whether we try this or not, if I'm not pregnant by Xmas we're going on a donor list...

Duplo , thanks for the tip about Inconceivable. I've read it now and it does reinforce my instinct to get my body as healthy and unstressed as possible. Although I can't work out whether she was just insanely lucky!

Thanks Bluebell. I think an IUI in Nov sounds like a good plan. Gives you something to aim for.

Morning Islegrin. Hope you are feeling alright today.

Duplo hope you are felling good and that today's blood test goes well (it is today isn't it?)

Hello everyone else. Big wave to all of you.

KC11 was sorry to hear youre low. I would say try to let yourself wallow for a day or two, your reaction is completely normal and you wont feel like this for ever. Be gentle on your dh, I think that men hate seeing you in pain so by saying “get over it” believe it or not they believe they are being helpful! Ask him for a big hug, tell him what you need so he knows what to do to help you. I agree that seeing other peoples struggles helps put things in perspective. Did anyone see that bbc programme last week “wounded”??? now that made me count my blessings with total gratitude.

Islegrin and mamachris – hugs to you, Im so sorry to hear the news.

Duplo – a tentative for your bfp!! Have you tested again? Poor dh with swine flu… what a good idea to quarantine him, hope it stays away from you.

Duplo and Gingerwine thanks for your advice ladies! Have agreed that we will go for an iui November and then our 2nd (and final) shot at ivf in Jan. Going into it with a positive frame of mind. Someone asked about hypnotherapy – well I did lots of self hyp when I conceived my ds and am convinced that it helps, so now that Im reminded of that, will definitely do some in November and January!

NPA good luck with your research and enjoy your break.

Nanoo welcome, and best of luck for your cycle. How are you getting on with the injections? Are you on short protocol?

Apologies if Ive missed anyone, still trying to catch up with the posts.

Hi there ladies. I'm so sorry to hear of the BFNs KC11, Mamachris and Islegrin, I was really hoping that there would be a some great news from your cycles. My thoughts are with you as you deal with the disappointments. I had one very low day, and then was fine for a few days, then felt down in the dumps for what seemed like forever. I struggle most witht he uncertainty, I think - if someone was able to tell me that I would never have children I'd find it a lot easier to deal with than the hope and continual rollercoaster. It's very difficult, and I hope you're all do okay getting through these tough days.

However I'm also thrilled with your test results, Duplo. they sound most promising!! Have you done another test yet?

As for me, I decided to step away from the computer for a while. I was also trying to take a bit of a break from preganacies and babies full stop, but it's impossible, I'm surrounded at the moment! We've set the wheels in motion to start looking in donor eggs however - had a good (frank) chat with my specialist and will see what happens next. And start doing lots of research!

Poor Islegrin. It seems we've had the same drop in hormones. I take some comfort in that actually. I am working today and have emailed all the women who knew I was having the second IVF. I've asked them all not to talk to me about it as they'll only upset me and so far none of them have referred to it. I hope you're feeling better today. I saw a man this morning walking on crutches who had clearly lost most of one leg. I realised that I am being pretty selfish really. He will never get his leg back and he was still carryingon with life. Made me feel quite cross with myself.

Will you keep trying Islegrin?

Does anyone know if hypnotherapy can help with infertility?

Welcome nanoo. Hope you'll enjoy it on here. Good luck with your injections and the cycle generally. You mentioned gonal f. Is that the follicle stimulating one? Are you based in London or further afield?

Ladies - just checking in to see how you are all doing. Sorry to hear about the BFN's, I am really sorry.

Duplo -- good news for you. take care of yourself, Sorry to hear that DH has swine flu. Typical !!

We are fine. Can't believe Louis is nearly a month old. I am struggling with emotions and quite down, think it is because I am not taking my HRT and need to get that sorted. Although am still trying to do something called breastfeeding, but due to the PCOS, its more miss than hit.

Got the 6wk check in a couple of weeks time, got lots to discuss, hysterectomy and also smear to check the progress of the borderline cells I had prior to the IVF.. never rains but pours..

sending everyone huge hugs, will try and post a photo on here, if i EVER work out how

Morning girls.

Mamachris - So sorry you've had BFNs. It's such an anticlimax after the potential exitement. Rollercoaster is such a good word for this whole thing. Look after yourself.

Islegrin - Sorry you've not had good news either. It sounds wise to let out the sadness. A good cry will do you no harm. I'm sure all those hormonal changes aren't helpful either.

The good thing is that both of you responded well and once you have come to terms with this cycle not working you can plan with that knowledge in mind. Huge hugs to you both.

Bluebell - Nice to hear from you. I'm not sure what I would do. Maybe try naturally til Jan and then one last shot at IVF. It sounds like that will double your chances from the stats your Dr gave you. We have been told our chances of success with IVF are about 5-10 % also and we are giving it a go if that helps. Although I do keep thinking what a lot of money to spend on something that is 90-95% likely to fail. But then if we don't try we will never know how we will respond and would always be wondering "what if". HTH

KC11 - Sending a big hug to you, knowing its not quite the same as a RL one! I know just what you mean about a silent hug full of sentiment. Good for you for going to the party and getting on with things and of course you will still be getting to grips with the disappointment. I'm sure your DH will be there for you. Men are funny creatures though and don't always 'get' how women work. Especailly when full of hormones!!

Duplo - Wow! My DH was wondering why I was so excited while reading MN! I think false postives are very unlikely aren't they. I so hope this is a definate BFP for you. Have you tested again today?

My God, so much is happening to you all. So sorry to MamaChris and Islegrin and KC11 - it must be so hard right now :-( But am really hoping for Duplo.

Thank you Gingerwine for the welcome :-) I feel like I can really join you all now as I injected Gonal-F for the first time this morning. Fingers crossed in 2 weeks time I'll be in for EC. I'm not new to emotinoal rollercoaster of AC but this is my first IVF - both dreading it and excited too. Is anyone else out there who'll be joining me??
x

Hey guys. Am just about installed in new apartment and finally back in the land of the semi-technically advanced with something appropriating an internet connection.

So much news. I'm so sorry to hear of the BFNs, isle KC and MamaChris. I remember those ups and downs post-cycle all too well, and there's nothing to do but ride it out. I had a follow up appointment very soon after but then switched completely off for a few months and let my hair down. KC - I think your attitude of 'we'll go till 7 cycles' is great - my DH and I had a similar conversation... I'd been thinking about going to 3 or 4 but was actually quite buoyed up by his insistence that we keep going beyond that if necessary. It's a 'failure' for the men too, even if they appear stoical. They think they need to stay strong because that's what we need, although I sometimes would have wanted for us both to commiserate together.

duplo - I am SO pleased to hear your news. Keep that husband of yours at arm's length for a while! I hope you're taking it VERY easy... or as much as is possible.

I'd better go; I am surrounded by shite in boxes and I have cankles to die for. Not. Am shuffling around like an old woman and being just as moany. You won't hear the phrase 'great company' in any sentence containing my name these days.....

(((KC11))) I had a relapse today of emotion, felt on the edge of tears all day (Sunday) after being "fine" since Wednesday. I felt much the same way you do, I've been trying not to burden my DH with it too much because he's still trying to get off the rollercoaster too, plus I wanted him to mostly enjoy his sports day (football, racing, etc). It does help take his mind off of everything

But I've wanted to be close, cuddle and needed consoling all day. The thought crossed my mind about the sudden departure of all of those hormone supplements and whether that might cause a temporary low on top of just plain disappointment. Not sure if it makes you feel any better to know I experienced the same thing today. I finally let it all go when I was driving to and from the grocery store - cranked up the music and just let it out. Plus I called my best friend, she's always very sensible and told me not to fight it so hard, just let it be. (Ride the emotional waves, is what I say - but now it was my turn to surf!)

Just remember - you have a wonderful DH that loves you very much, even when he doesn't quite understand how you are feeling. Plus you have parents and other family that love you very much too. We all have lots to be thankful for, even in this very disappointing time.

I hope that helps, a little.
xx

Fantastic news Duplo, I'm rooting for you. Sorry to Mamachris and Islegrin.
And KC11 don't be hard on yourself, your cycle went so well, you were bound to build up all your expectations . . it's just the nature of the beast. The only good thing about being a low responder is getting to keep your expectations in check all the time - and I'd swap any day and have a better chance - so go easy on yourself. I think its harder if you really believed it might happen, and you had every reason too.

Now Duplo as a fellow low-responder I have been meaning to ask you more about GIFT, and now you are pulling a positive I am extrememly interested. Can you outline the basics and why its supposed to be good for low responders?

meant to say I don't think it's reasonable of your dh to *expect you to* "get over it"

So sorry you're having such a tough day KC11. I don't think it's reasonable of your dh to "get over it" within a few days, it's such a difficult and disappointing time for you, especially as your cycle went so well. I think men often deal with those things in a different way and try to distance themselves from their emotions which can be very hard for us when we need to be consoled. Do you have anyone else you could turn to for consolation, a good friend maybe or your mum? Allow yourself time to grieve, it's very important to process your emotions properly before you pick yourself up again and move on. Sending you a virtual ((hug)) which I know is a very poor substitute for the real thing.

Oh no MamaChris, you must have been so disappointed. Although I believe that there is still a chance that you tested too early, what test did you do? I tried 3 different brands of test yesterday, 2 (1st Response and Clearblue) came back faintly positive, but the 3rd (internet cheapie) came back negative. Really hoping you've just tested too early.

Dp has contracted what looks like swineflue. Argh, the 1st positive test in years and then he goes and does that. Have quarantined him to the spare bedroom and took dd out to enjoy the sunshine. Still feeling like AF may start any minute. Please stay away!!

MamaChris - so sorry it seems to be bad news this month.

Duplo _sound like good news for you! well done!!!!

I'm hving a very tough day. I think the hormones have slumped and I can't stop crying. I feel like such a fraud. I went to party last night, which was alright, but today I feel like a fake because I should have been feeling sorry for myself instead of covering up all the grief. I am greiving today. I feel like a failure and I know it's such the hormonal efect but I can't snap out of it. DH not being sympathetic as he thought I was "over it". Floods of hot angry tearskeep coming my way. Really really want big silent hugs, the ones where you know the person feels your pain.

MamaChris yes, unfortunately I think 13dpo results do count. I'm so sorry, I really was hoping for a full 50% or better result for our group. How are you handling it? Huge hugs and I'm thinking of you. Just ride those emotional waves as they come.

xx

duplo just read the end of your message - fantastic news yes - false postives are almost impossible

hi islegrin. never one to resist a challenge, I tested today. does a 13dpo BFN count?

so sorry for both of us.

anyone here left in the 2ww?

DUPLO!!! That's great news, why you didn't lead with that bit is only a testament to your self restraint. I say (of course this is the mega-tester speaking) that you go buy a couple more tests. Don't test multiple times a day, but definitely test tomorrow morning and the next morning and see what it looks like - I THINK YOU ARE UP THE DUFF! But we still have to be somewhat cautious and wait a couple more days! I'm absolutely busting for you!!!! I knew with four of us going there had to be at least ONE that made it. <stepping down off my rah rah stand now>

Your blood test is scheduled for Tuesday? oh oh oh, I can't wait!

Oh no islegrin, I was still hoping that everything would be ok. I am glad that you are feeling a bit more composed about it - I guess in this respect early testing is quite useful because it prepares you for what may happen - but it is still a massive disappointment. I'm very, very sorry! Regarding your earlier post, I think MamaChris, Lottie and KYC have already said it all: just because it didn't work this time doesn't mean that anything is wrong with you. even if everything works out perfectly well in once cycle you still need quite a bit of luck too. You have quite a few frozen embies still, and even though FET seems second best to a lot of people, it often leads to success. In my clinic they are saying that due to improved freezing technology the success rate of FETs are getting close to the rate for fresh cycles.

I admire your attitude KC11 - picking yourself up and going to the party all glammed up after all the bad news! You are definitely stronger than me. I'm glad you're determined to keep going - you have responded so well in your cycles you have got excellent chances of it working eventually. I always told myself I'd try at least 4 cycles as that's what it took a good friend of mine to get pregnant. I she had stopped at 3 cycles she wouldn't have her gorgeous ds now. And who knows, maybe you even get a natural pg while waiting for your next attempt, it's always possible.

hi bluebell, those decisions are very difficult to make. I think it's a very personal decision so I can only tell you what I would do - I would try a second attempt. Your clinic already said they think they can improve your response by upping the drugs, and the first attempt is often seen as a trial run to see how you respond and less successful than subsequent ones where they can target the protocol better. But of course it depends on how much you can afford it and if you can face having another go. The other reason why I would try again is that if I didn't I would always ask myself what would have happened if I had - iyswim.
Are you happy with your clinic? You could always get a second opinion elswhere if you're unsure. Have you read inconceivable by julia inchicova? It's written by this woman who got pg naturally at 44 after all consultants told her there was no chance of this happening after improving her lifestyle. Obviously there are no guarantees, but the book helped me a lot when I felt really down.

Hi gingerwine nice to hear from you. Not long til your ivf then, are you excited? don't give up on your body before you have given it a chance!

Now as for myself, I tested this morning and somehow wish I hadn't. Tried a first response test, got a BFN and was just about to throw it in the bin when I thought I spotted a really, really light line, more like a shadow really. So I caved in and opened my special occasion clearblue digital test and it came up with "pregnant 1-2wks". So does that mean I am? I am 12 dpo today, could it still be the hcg in my system? I know I should be happy, I have been waiting for this for so long, but actually I'm terrified that it may be a false positive due to the hcg or result in a chemical as it's still so early.

typo- should have typed "Sorry for the me me me post.

Oh islegrin. I'm so sad for you. You deserve a BFP so much. I think this was you first IVF and since I failed my first IVF so many people have said to me that the first time is the test run. Why did they not say that to me before I fell from such a height? I guess they didn't want to dampen my spirit which for IVF cycle 1 were sky-high. On IVF cycle 2 whcih officially ended today, I was much more skeptical although still hopeful it it's possible to be both at the same time! Ha Ha. I had cramping from day 9 post ET and I was fairly sure that it was just the progesterone holding off AF. I started cleeding on day 12 and still manged to hope that the pink spotting wouldn't trun into anything more. but i was wrong. I actually have not cried since day 11 and somehow I just know it will hit me at some point. I hope you enjoy your consolation prize and i know you're right. DH and I love each other and that's why we have sex, not just for a baby. I have set myself a target to have the most ever IVF cycles, if I can afford them. I am setting myself the task of getting at least a positive by the 7th cycle. That give me something to aim for. I am notoriously unlucky. If there was one bad egg in a box of six, I'd pick the bad one. Hubby however, is luck and if there were five bad eggs in a bos of six he'd pick the one good egg. So we've got a chance at least!!!!! My coping strategy is that if I set my mind on acheiving birth of a baby after 7 IVFs, maybe I can achieve it before then!

I've just had hair cut and dried and am now getting ready to glam up for a party. I'm still going to stick to lemonade as i don't want anyone to suspect that my ivf failed. I'm putting off the news-telling to everyone except DH, my mum and dad, til Tuesday. Self-preservation. So for the me me me post.

I hope duplo is doing fine.

Lottie you do talk a lot of sense and I'm so glad you're still posting on here. You give me hope. Hope you're feeling well. Good luck with the move. Don't do too much if you can help it. Take care.

Official results: negative (less than 2 hCG so at least I know my HPT aren't flawed ) phone call was about 3 hours later than expected, but the nurse did apologize for not believing me on Wednesday.

bluebell good to see you back, and I'm very happy that you've had a mental break from the rollercoaster of thinking about all of this. Sounds like you are right back in the thick of it again, now.

I think you should also ask if there is anything that would significantly raise your chances of success. Have you asked or discussed donor eggs/adopted embryos? Or would you even consider that? Money is a concern for us as well, doable but tight. So anything you can do to raise your chances would help justify the money spent. The trick is that we'd all pay a lot IF it works, but how much are we willing to spend even if it doesn't. That's the question. Unfortunately nobody knows the future and whether or not it will really work.

There's no getting away from the fact that this is partly an emotional decision, all the FC can do is tell us what they think is the problem, and what are the best options for success - we have to do the hard part and make the call. Wishing you all the best ((((hugs))))

LL I hope your move is going well or is nearly complete. I can't believe you are doing this again while pg, you are my hero! I'll have to remember not to ever whine to you if I ever get pg.

Hi everyone

Havent had time to read everything Ive missed yet, have a whole 6 weeks of posts to read. Wanted to sent all good wishes to those of you in the hell that is 2ww. islegrin hope you had a good phonecall.

Had a break after our failed ivf in Aug and its been good not to think about it for a while. However yesterday was our follow up appt and TBH its left me a bit confused, they did say I could email with any questions, but I would rather hear your thoughts I think. I asked them for advice but was just presented with options and facts. I really wanted to be told what to do!!

So firstly we were told we could still get pg naturally so we may want to stop here. Im 42 soon so its a 5% chance of natural pregnancy.

With another round of ivf we will have around a 10% chance of pregnancy. Our issues are my age/quality of eggs and dh's morphology. If we do go for another round they will address the lack of eggs in the follicles (last time lots of follies but only 3 eggs at EC) by upping the drug dose. Last time ET was a mess, took ages, so they would do a trial run before ET next time. (why didnt they do this the first time? wish Id asked).

If we decide to have a 2nd shot it has to be sooner rather than later, Im thinking January. She said we could carry on trying naturally or do a couple of iuis meantime (because the sperm is washed so the best motility/morphology are there).

dh is a betting man and thinks the odds of success are low, Im more of a lets give it our best shot mindset, however money is an issue for us. What to do?????

<need to smack myself with a pan for being too self centered>

MamaChris I also meant to say that just because it feels like AF is around the corner, it's not necessarily - as I've come to find out there's a lot of adjusting going on in your body and the progesterone will stop AF from appearing. Even today, when I asked - it's still going to be 5-6 days before AF starts for me, but it has felt like it was going to start from the day after ET. That's not enough of a reason in itself. You'll have to show me at least 12dpo BFN results for me to believe you.

(my phone should RING anytime now, RING phone, RING!!!)

MamaChris you and LL really do make a lot of sense to me. When presented with a fact based hope - I will buy it everyday! This morning (my time) when I read LondonLottie's post, I finally felt like that was based on reality rather than wishful thinking. I actually teared up - yeah, I know I'm a sap, but not often!

I went to get the official blood test this morning, sitting here at my desk now waiting for the official results... but it has made today so much more tolerable because I've already made my peace with what will (PROBABLY) be the result. I took another HPT this morning, well actually, as I do every morning. It's still disappointing, but not crushingly so anymore. MamaChris I completely understand wanting the results when you have the privacy to react how ever you will - not in the middle of work!

Nurse says if I do FET - it will be DECEMBER, I told her that was worse news for me today than if the results are negative. Then she started looking at the calendar closer - she could possibly fit me in Mid-November, but she's going to be on vacation... um, so that's how it is now??? I think I'm going to push for November.

I'll soon have my post-IVF talk with the doc, and I have to think up all the questions to ask - so I'll put the one about success rates for ladies who failed their 1st IVF.

Hi islegrin, londonlottie speaks a lot of sense here. I don't know you're history (how many cycles etc), but at my clinic they don't even talk about success rates from a single cycle - they give the combined fresh cycle + frozen rate (40%, I think). If this is your first IVF cycle, and if it hasn't worked, then, really, it means nothing with regard to your likely eventual success rate. And a friend of mine just got her BFP from a single frozen embryo transfer (the "less promising embryo" that was put in the freezer) after a BFN from the two fresh embryos transferred before. Doesn't mean you have to go ahead with a frozen cycle. But I don't see anything negative either. You could always ask your clinic: "what are the success rates for women who don't get a BFP on the first cycle"?

Re me, well, I'm fairly certain it's a negative. My body really does feel like it's ready for AF (minor cramps on and off last 3 days), just the progesterone holding it back. I'm going to hold off testing till the morning of the blood test, because I'll need to call for the result of the blood test from work, and I'd rather have the final confirmation in the privacy of my own bathroom.

awww - thank you!!!

Hi islegrin - just a quickie as we're mid-move and I should really be shovelling clothes into appropriate receptacles rather than bumbling around on MN.

I won't give you the spiel about how you never know etc etc... you are probably right and this cycle probably hasn't worked - although I would just say there are plenty of examples if you look on FF where people had negatives right up till test date. However if anyone had tried to make me be positive about it I know I would have resisted... you sound like your coping mechanisms are similar to mine.

One thing I wanted to add though was that just because (IF) this cycle hasn't worked, it doesn't mean there's anything particularly 'wrong'. I know we all want answers, but look at it this way - my first cycle didn't work either. Loads of people's first cycles don't work - not because there's anything duff about their insides (in fact my embryos from that first cycle were supposedly much better quality than the next cycle which did work). Fact is that there are no guarantees with any one attempt which is why so many clinics/doctors tell you that you will probably need more than one pop at the cherry in order to get results. You responded well, your eggs fertilised well, and they divided well to form good embryos - enough good embryos in fact to give you plenty for the freezer. I'd be surprised if any doctor said that your chances OVERALL of success were anything less than fantastic.

mamachris it's absolutely normal to not have any symptoms this early - except for the symptoms that the progesterone gives you. So there is still a lot of hope for you. My thoughts are with you these last difficult days of waiting. My advice - laugh as much as possible, I find that helps a lot!

KC I've really learned to appreciate your simplicity of notice (game over). I might have to use that one next time (oh god - if there is a next time!). Six weeks - wow, I've only been away from the sex for 3 and I'm going bonkers!!! I'm really looking forward to this weekend for all of that! I've been randy as a rabbit! (typical the week before AF for me.) Tonight is part of my "consolation prize". I guess we'll also start planning our Vegas trip.

Yesterday was pretty good for me, I've come to terms with it now. Wednesday was just the worst as I still held out some legitimate hope. I'm debating on whether or not to stop and get some flowers for my nurse on my blood test visit today. I really let her have it on our Wednesday phone call - tears and all. She's never heard me like that before - and usually I'm so chipper and relaxed. But Wednesday I just flat out hit bottom. In retrospect, I suppose two down days out of this whole process isn't all that bad though. Within hours I started bouncing back and Thursday was fine. I think today will be ok too - I even feel up to receiving her phone call with neg news. (I'm really not being dramatic or pessimistic here ladies, I know we all want to hold out hope - but I'm just being realistic. I haven't yet passed over the 20 hCG mark- even this morning, so it hasn't happened this time.) I'm torn because I really do want a child or two - but I don't know if I really have any chance because the fact is that we don't know what the problem is. Obviously now, it's more than just tubes.

I've heard that FET only has 20% chance of success - back to IUI rates. That's daunting. At least with IVF it was closer to 50%. I wish I really knew what MY chances were - that would help me make a decision. Is it worth the money and the rollercoaster? I guess that's the decision in front of us now. If I could jump right into the next cycle, I think I would - but if I have to wait a month and cycle down on BC pills again - I'm dreading that. Of course, for a full term baby it would all be worth it - but the trick is we never know.

LL did you do a FET? If so, what was the protocol?

Hi gingerwine. you don't know how you'll respond, so don't worry about that yet. Good luck with the journey though

blood test booked for Tuesday. but I have zero symptoms, except for a feeling that AF is trying to come (suppose progesterone is keeping that at bay) - with nothing in the freezer, am feeling very negative.

can anyone who's had a BFP after IVF tell me about early pregnancy symptoms? (clutching at straws here! if it's normal to have zero symptoms, then maybe there's still hope, right?) I had sore boobs the first few days taking the progesterone (even before transfer), but even they've gone now... feels like being not even in a normal cycle, like I'm back on the synarel

Hi everyone

Islegrin - I'm still holding out some hope for you. Whatever the news the ladies on this thread will be here to listen.

KC11 - So sorry. It sounds like you are making sensible plans for the future. Try not to think of sex as pointless. Do it because you love each other. Your DH does sound as if he has been supportive. And you never know you may have a natural miracle.

Mamachris - Glad you have your little blast on board. Hope it's getting comfy in there and doing all it should. When do you test?

Duplo - Fingers crossed for you. Hope you are doing OK.

We are definately due a BFP.

I'm busy buying new clothes for work this week and have been looking at what holiday we could have next year. I'm hoping if I do normal things we will get lucky! our information appointment is a week on monday. After that we will be waiting for AF before we start our cycle.

Hi to mummycat, londonlottie, sooty and hello to nanoo. I am yet to start my first IVF (possibly my only IVF if I don't respond well) so I'm afraid I'm a bit of a novice with all the terminology too. I think 'Stimming lining' refers to stimulating the lining of the womb. Read this thread enough and you get the general idea, but I'm sure once you are doing a cycle things make a lot more sense!

Hi ladies. Good luck to those still in the two week wait. You deserve a BFP and i's sure one of you is getting a BFP this time.

Come on Duplo. Hope you're not too stressed with the waiting. good luck and fingers crossed for your preg test, whenever the due day is.

Islegrin sounds like you feel like I do. DH and I have discussed a total of 5 IVFs. I still will have the 3rd attempt paid for on the NHS which is why I guess it wouldn't be til March 2010 as they don't let you back on the waiting list until you've had three clear cycles since the failure and then you have to wait, so that's got to be about six months from now. DH says we will try naturally and that he has missed sex (as we've not had any for six weeks), poor thing. Personally it has become mechanical for me and I know i'll get upset the first time as it will feel so pointless. I know the hormones and meds kick the crap out of us and I have no sex drive at all at the moment. Sorry if TMI!

Yep, sorry you hang in there too Duplo

I think duplo should hang in there! We need one BFP! c'mon

KC11. Hang in there Islegrin.

Argh, I just typed a long post, and it disappeared. can't face typing it all again but will write the most important things:

oh no KC11, this is terrible! I'm so gutted for you. sending you a big ((hug)). I hope you have someone there with you too look after you, it's so difficult to deal with the disappointment.

islegrin I'm glad you're giving it another day, the nurse may be right and your embie just implanted late. MamaChris is right you can always think about FET later, it's a great option to have anyway. good luck!

you're right lottie, I'm sure some of it is an insurance policy of my mind thinking if I don't expect anything at least I won't be dissapointed. Except it still is disappointing if it fails.

feeling like af is just round the corner

(((KC11))). Am so so sorry.

islegrin sorry you're so down too. but I understand implantation can be anything from 5dpo to 9dpo, and the hormones only start rising after implantation so really, hard though it is, try and hold off believing the worst till you see the evidence. FET you can think about later, if needed. No need to make any decisions just yet.

KC11 I'm sorry, it absolutely sucks! Hopes crushed and wondering if we should even try anymore. Hot showers and lots of crying seems to be the cure, perhaps with a bit of wine, chocolate or pizza.

HPT was negative again this morning for me, I called the nurse yesterday in tears because I had to leave work - I was in such a state. I guess yesterday hit the hardest. The nurse tried to cheer me up with false hope, but if I can't trip 20 hCG test a day before, it's not happening, kids. I promised her I'd complete out one last progesterone shot tonight, but the only point is so that I can have two days before AF arrives to have emo-sex with DH. I am looking forward to that! Worn out - battered and bruised, and I really don't know if we should even try FET or not... I asked the nurse to have info on hand for me when I see her tomorrow for the blood tests.

I hope today is better than yesterday and tomorrow will be even better.

xx

GAME OVER

Hey girls... it's a 2 week-wait-fest in here at the moment. And - breeeeaatthhe....!

I don't know what the night-sweats could be but you're probably all taking progesterone so it could well be a side-effect from those darling suppositories.

Other than that - well, islegrin - you've taken the early testing one step further than I did. I can totally understand the logic/mentality to wanting to test every day - I used to do that when ttc, from about 9dpo. I figured that a BFN wasn't a BFN until my period showed up. Having said that, I eventually got so jaded that I held off testing until something happened which was different to my usual cycle, and until then was resolutely negative about my chances each month. Similarly I guess, with my first IVF cycle I tested from about 9dpo (all negatives until I started bleeding at the equivalent 11dpo) but with this second one I decided I'd only test if I got further than the 11dpo. Although I had to remove myself to an isolated hide-out in the countryside with no transport and no pregnancy tests for miles around to make sure I kept to that!

duplo - I'm so glad you went to see Ian, and fantastic that your lining went from 'thin' to optimal during this cycle I know it's really hard to stay positive during the 2ww - in fact, I don't think it's even possible to maintain any sort of Zen outlook. But I do believe that a lot of these "I don't think it's worked" or "I don't feel pregnant" feelings are our fears manifesting rather than any definite physical sensation. I think both this time and last time I had those feelings, because of course both times it's a massive fear. For me the worst thing is projecting the future based on those fears: for me it was "I don't think this has worked >>> I responded so much worse this time it's never going to work >>> I'm never going to have children >>> arrggggghhhh". It's so much easier said than done but I can really recommend the very simple technique, when you feel yourself having these negative thoughts, of just saying to yourself - out loud if necessary - "no - I'm not having that thought. Just not having it." And that forces your mind to move onto something else. I used to do that when the negative voices would start ringing in my ear about my weight or what I looked like. (PS: don't you worry about messing up Ian's success rate - I feel bad now for putting unnecessary pressure on and certainly wouldn't want to do that!!)

KC and MamaChris - thinking about the two of you too at the moment. Really hoping for some good thread news from you all over the next few days. xxx

mummycat - I'm not entirely sure of all the hoopla surrounding acupuncture but managed to find someone (aforementioned Ian @ Balance in London) who apart from anything else is extremely good to talk to you about the IVF cycle as you go through it. I had a few sessions in the lead up to egg collection (the aim is to make the lining as 'receptive' as possible), and then before and after embryo transfer. I think from all the studies done there is some evidence (not a huge amount, but some) that acupuncture before/after embryo transfer increases success rates. I think if you can find someone reputable, who doesn't cost a fortune and promise too much, then it's worth doing.

I don't want to worry any of you but I have yet to chime in with symptoms because I feel like I'm on the BFN path.

Night/Day sweats, acne on chest magically appeared overnight, sore boobs, sometimes sleeping well, sometimes not at all, heartburn, twinges, cramps and back pain. I'm on progesterone inj and suppositories 2x a day and two patches of estrogen changed every other day, and of course the prenatal vits. I just chalked the symptoms up to the progesterone.

just googled ivf and night sweats KC11 and apparently it's very common with ivf and neither a positive nor a negative sign. just the hormones playing up.

How strange KC11 that you are having those hot flushes at night too. what could it be? Are you taking any hormones? I am taking progesterone, estradiol, heparin shots and baby aspirin so am wondering if it's one of them. I'm the kind of person who is always cold and can only sleep wearing pyjamas and socks at all times of the year (plus a hot water bottle in winter) so for me to strip down to my underwear in the middle of the night cause I'm so hot is completely unheard of. I think it's a very wise decision regarding the party, takes the pressure of you. Could the leaking just be from progesterone suppositories, are you on cyclogest? I'm taking those and always have my knickers full of white gunk - sorry if tmi.

Oh dear islegrin are you sure this testing early is good for you? sounds very stressful to me, don't be upset it is still early days, the bfn doesn't mean anything yet. I'm so hoping this is going to work out for you!!
Thanks a lot for the list, I needed a bit of light relief. funny that you're thinking about sex I am really off it now, whenever dp approaches me (he is really suffering from withdrawal poor dear) I feel offended that he's even considering trivial things like that right now. oh well, I blame the hormones.

Hi sooty, what a shame you can't be on the 2ww with us. I think it's actually a good thing that you're taking a break before your next ivf, this will give you some time to recharge yourself and just live a normal life and enjoy yourself for a bit.

nanoo, sorry I did not explain myself clearly, what I meant was that when I was stimulating my ovaries my uterine lining was too thin and after an accu session with ian it suddenly became really thick and "beautiful" (in the words of the dr who did my scan, it also had a triple line which apparently is a good thing). Obviously I don't know if it was Ian's doing but I like to belief so. I really recommend him, google ian prytherch at balance accupuncture. he operates at harley street and in south west london.

I was in a right mess today, I should be at a party right now but cancelled as I just couldn't face it. I convinced myself today that It hadn't worked again. I just feel it. I have no twinges and no dizzyness (symptom with my first pg) and no nothing. I feel really empty inside, not like something is growing in there. I don't know why but I just know. While cooking dinner I scattered half the rice on the kitchen floor, burnt the remaining rice, undercooked the fish and yelled at dd because she insisted on calling me Laura (which is a nice name, but not mine).

Right islegrin, kc11, mamachris, let's breathe deeply and repeat the mantra "it will all be ok!". Now all I have to do is follow my own advice.

Good luck everybody!!!

Well, I've had no symptoms at all. Then this evening it feels like AF is on the way. How long till AF after egg collection on a negative IVF cycle anyone?

hang in there everyone, don't let me negativity infect you. this must work sometimes - otherwise where did my clinic get all those photos of little babies from to put on their wall? <cynical smile>

Hang on in there Islegrin. It ain't over til the fat lady sings!!!! Don't stress over the pee sticks. I have not POAS since trying ovulation predictor kits last year. I definitely think you're still in with a good chance. The only definitive way is when you've lost all the womb lining. so even loss of a tiny bit does not spell the end. Our bodies are so clever. Remember that. They have procreated for thousands of years and loads of idiots and silly people get preggers all the time without trying. After all this effort we will reap the rewards, very soon. Hang on in there. Don't give up hope. I am still hoping for your embie. It only takes ONE!!!!

<mrrrrrrrrr.. rrrr... rrr..rrrrr> That's the sound of my plane stalling and heading for a crash and burn, ladies. I've tested yet again this morning (Wednesday) and BFN. The tests I'm using are sensitive to 20 mIU/ml hCG unlike others that trip at 50 or even 100. I've looked it up and by Saturday I should be at 100 for my Beta hCG, if you go back the half rate would put me at 50 by Thursday and 25 by Tuesday... did I mention today is Wednesday? hmmm. Yep, not all conclusive yet, but it's not looking good for the home team.

Deflated but not destroyed, at least I wasn't heading straight at the brick wall going full speed. (I of course, am referring to Friday's blood test - with all my hopes in tact.) The nice thing is that I got a good cry out of the way on Sunday, so I'm getting to the "accepting" bit now. bummed, bummed, bummed to say the least! Well, there's always my test tomorrow and Friday morning! Oh, maybe I spoke too soon, I'm welling up a bit, over here.

KC11 I completely agree with you!!! If I had a big party with friends and family planned for Friday night after I officially take the blood test, I couldn't attend if the results were negative. Yor DH was very sweet, I'm so happy for his encouragement of you! Will that lining to stay put -Everything crossed for you!!!

sooty I do wish you were right in the middle of the TWW sickness with the rest of us!!! However, I'll let your looking on the bright side, slide - just this once! It is shocking to me how a week in normal life can pass without hardly any notice. If I'm busy at work - bam! It's Friday, already? But the second week of the TWW feels like about 7 years!!! I'm with you - I'm 37 but will have to decide if this is our last cycle or to try again with FET. I'm split on the option right now, part of me just wants to know and move on with life. This repeated hope and fail cycle messes with my head and diminishes my joy. Best of luck for your Nov/Dec cycle.

MamaChris keep your fires burning! I still have tons of hope for you, KC, and Duplo. It only takes ONE, it only takes ONE, it only takes ONE wonderful blast to hatch and stick! Don't worry about the freezer, just focus on what you've got, inside, right now! That's the important bit.

duplo you are exactly right, we have all of these scans to check our progress sometimes only two days apart, montioring blood work, etc. etc. then - hey, you're on your own and PS don't worry about it: it will be what it will be. WHAT?!?! are you kidding me? distract myself? with what exactly that could be more important or even come close to taking my mind off of this?? Anyway, for better or worse, that's why I test early. I've always done it (at least now I use those cheapie tests I learned about on MN) and actually my DH encourages me to do it. At least it gives me something to do every day during the wait, well that and still shoot progesterone in my bum every evening and the other bits twice a day. The things we do for a chance at having a baby! Hang in there, lady.

nanoo thanks for your encouragement and watching our stories unfold here. I have the feeling this cycle is going to still have a positive outcome for most of us! Not sure about the reference to stimming lining, I guess I missed that, sorry.

mummycat Some of the ladies here have done 6 rounds of acupuncture around the time of EC and ET, and they say they think it's either helped or been neutral. Some have seen a difference in the thickening of the lining within a few days. I tried that route a year or two ago when we were still trying naturally, but not since we've been trying meds/ IUI or IVF.

Well I guess I'll go to bed again, I get up early to test before DH goes to work at 4 am, so that we'll know at the same time. He's so cute, my husband. The rollercoaster is hard on him too, even though he hides it better than I do.

I kind of feel stupid for getting my hopes up. What made me think this time would be any different? must...focus... on... positive...drag... myself... out... of... self... pity... pit! Hey, on the bright side, we can have sex on Friday, Saturday and Sunday if tests are still negative!!!
And we get to plan a consolation prize trip to somewhere, DH is thinking Vegas, I was thinking New Zealand!

xx

Hi, still following you guys on your journey - sending good vibes to all. You're all doing great at bearing that painful 2WW. Duplo just wondering if you could let me know who Ian is? Sounds like you found someone good for acupuncture....where does he practice? Thanks (and ps, sorry for lack of knowledge, what does stimming lining mean?)

Isle I like that list of things to do during the two week wait. Very good. I am a bit of a list person anyway.

Good vibes being sent to Isle, Duplo, Mama, lottie, sooty, gingerwine and everyone else I've not mentioned.

Isle - my crystal ball (shaped like a computer screen) looks like Friday and Saturday are going to be good days for all of us. I can see positive things ahead and as for my family party on Sat night, I've decided that it if positive I will go to the party and say that I don't test for a few more days. If it's negative I will call the hostess and tell her that I can't come to the party because the IVF didn't work and I feel really unwell. That way I won't have to smile bravely as they all say they're sorry the IVF didn't work. I do still have a small hope that it has worked. If i've never been pregnant before how would I know that hot flushes in the night and leaking is not a bad sign?

DH has been really great over the two week wait and although not one for sentiment, today he said he loved me "for trying the IVF again". That was enough to start me crying again as he never says anything romantic or sloppy. Too much kindness makes me cry.

oH mY gOD! DUPLO I have the exact same symptoms as you. I have for two nights running slept (in the loosest sense of the word) badly. Waking at 4.00am and being boiling hot and feeling cramps and what felt exactly like leaking warm blood, execpt I wasn't bleeding. There is no colour to it, just white blobs (that look like wet tissue). Sorry it that's TMI.

Yesterday am I was convinced I would start AF during the day but nothing. Last night same thing woke at 4.00am reeally hot, flung duvet off and felt the leaking sensation again. Checked but no bleeding. I had a bloody good cry about it this morning as DH has the day off and was very comforting. He has said that we should think that the IVF has failed, but to wait until bleeding actually happens before we rule this one out. I am hoping so hard that I actually think I can will the womb lining to stay put!!!!!

Just found this funny article for my fellow TWWaiters: More later...xx isle

14 Things to Do when 14 Days Seem Like Forever, by Lynn Steen

Please note that this is a humourous article and is not intended as advice.

As any woman who is trying to get pregnant can tell you, the two weeks from ovulation to the due date for your next period are pure torture. You promise yourself you’ll just wait it out, distract yourself with other activities and you won’t even THINK about taking a pregnancy test until you’re at least a day overdue. Then something happens – your breasts start hurting in a slightly different way than they did before, you get slightly nauseous, you have some spotting, or nothing happens, but you find yourself waking up wishing you could go to sleep again so that it would be another day closer to knowing. You can’t think, you can’t sleep, you can’t work, and you start taking HPT’s days before they are even possibly meaningful. You are deep in the abyss of THE TWO-WEEK-WAIT!

In my opinion, it’s no use advising women to stop obsessing, it’s impossible. Instead, I give you a list of more productive ways to obsess. Please note, however, that there is a limit that each woman must define for herself, between indulging in some baby daydreaming and going overboard. I’ve included some examples below:

1. Take a walk around your neighborhood and figure out what will be the best route for strolls with the baby. Find areas with nice pavements and easy curbs. Go ahead and daydream. But do NOT buy a stroller for the dog.

2. Clean out your wardrobe to make room for the maternity stuff you’ll be buying soon. Try on anything you haven’t worn for six months. Yes, if you wish, you may put a pillow in your undies to see what will work as maternity wear. But taking a picture of yourself like that is going too far.

3. Start a journal. Write down everything you’re feeling. It will be a great opening chapter for your child’s baby book. If you can’t put your feelings into words, draw something; try to create a symbol that expresses the frustration you’re feeling. Don’t get that symbol tattooed on your ankle.

4. Plant a hope garden. Or a hope rosebush. Or a hope citrus tree. You want to grow something inside of you, well start by growing something outside of you. Nurture it. Feed it. Give it water. Talk to it. But do not send out birth announcements.

5. Get better at photography. Really learn how to work all the buttons and settings on your camera. Experiment! If you have a digital camera, get all the downloading and editing stuff worked out. You will be well prepared once you have a baby, and will be able to get some great shots and get them emailed to your family before the child’s graduation. Do not take photos of your cervical mucous, even if Toni Weschler begs you.

6. Make an appeal to the committee meeting going on inside you. Sperm, egg, uterus, corpus luteum, progesterone – they are in there either making a baby or not. Treat them like any other unruly committee you’ve ever addressed. Yes that’s right, go ahead and talk to them. Put your hands on your stomach and tell them how much you respect them. Make your best argument in favor of a baby, and then let them decide. It’s out of your hands. Addressing the committee within earshot of normal people is not recommended.

7. Paint your toenails. Imagine how difficult this will be when you are pregnant. Go shopping for the perfect pink and blue nail polish in preparation for a celebration polish. Alternating colors on the day you find out you’re pregnant, or a single color for the day you find out the baby’s sex. Don’t be tempted to paint a cycle day countdown on your big toes.

8. Make a cup of herbal tea. It is a nice ritual: boiling the water, adding the tea leaves, pouring into a nice china cup, adding some milk or sugar, sipping peacefully. Ahhhh. There’s nothing that a nice cup of tea won’t help. Yeah right. Well it does kill a little bit of time.

9. Swim laps. Think about the sperm and how they need to swim to your egg. Imagine that you are a sperm, the end of the pool is the egg, then GO, GO, GO! Don’t wear a tail or anything. Just imagine it quietly.

10. Make lists. List all the people you will tell when you get pregnant, and in what order. List all the little jobs you need to get done instead of obsessing about this 2WW! List all the healthy activities you intend to do this week. List all the girl and boy names you like. Lists are helpful for all sorts of things, most of all for passing time rather than actually doing something.

11. Create a fertility dance. Choose whatever music speaks to your soul and make up a dance routine as a prayer to the universe for the growth of an embryo. Move your hips, rotate your belly, let your arms flow – but close the curtains.

12. Prepare a folic acid feast. Cream of broccoli soup as an entree, followed by spinach lasagne, enriched whole grain garlic bread and frozen orange juice sorbet for dessert. Dedicate the meal to your baby-to-be. Just don’t set a highchair at the table in his or her honor.

13. Delegate the burden of the two-week wait. Clearly someone has to worry constantly during this time, but does it have to be you? Divide the days up among your best friends and closest family. On their assigned day they are required to think, wonder, and worry all day about whether you are pregnant or not. At the end of the day they have to call or send you email describing how agonizing it was. Also they have to report to you if they had any “symptoms,” such as sore breasts, excessive urination, nausea, bleeding, fatigue… you will be surprised how many people, male and female, have early pregnancy symptoms if they just look for them.

14. Write a list of 14 things to do during the Two-Week Wait and post it to the internet. For me, this killed nearly 3 hours. Now what? I’ve still got 9 days to go? Aaaarrgrhhhh.

Hello everyone, and a wave to all my fellow 2wwers: islegrin, kc11, mamachris - did I forget anyone?? Let's try and stay calm together.

I'm feeling distinctly unpregnant, no twinges or other funnies. I've been having stomach cramps, but I always get them as af is approaching. The only strange thing is that I have been sleeping really badly the last few days, always waking up boiling hot. But with the cocktail of drugs I'm on it's probably just a side effect. They told me to test 18 days after the gift - that's a joke, right?? Will probably be cheeky and test friday or saturday. I have a yoga workshop booked on saturday and want to know before if I have to be careful or not. Although I'm not too hopeful, thanks to my poor response.. I know I should try and be positive, sometimes I manage but then I feel like I'm just fooling myself.

That family party sounds quite stressful, KC11. It's nice of your mum that she's so involved but it makes it very hard for you. Couldn't you just tell them it's still too early to know? with two great embrios you have good chances that it will be positive news anyway, but I understand that you would not want to tell that early on.

I know what it's like islegrin, i have been tempted to test early, in fact I will probably test early too but not for a few days. it's just too bloody hard not knowing for two weeks isn't it? first you have all these scans to tell you exactly what's going on in your body and now - nothing.. when is your official testing day?

I really hope I won't mess up Ian's success rate lottie, I went to see him with this cycle and after my treatment during stimming my lining went from dodgy to really good in two days so he really knows what he's doing, but I know I'm not an easy case...I went to check the poor responders on fertilityfriends and it is just too depressing, nobody ever seems to get pg on there.

sorry to be so doom and gloom at the moment it's probably just because I'm hungry. When my stomach is grumbling I always get grumpy.

Good luck KC, re family, my tactic is to tell them all that the drugs can extend your cycle so it's not conclusive even if AF is late. I also keep any tests to myself. It's just too hard dealing with other people's expectations on those last few days. I try to be vague and inconclusive and they generally get the message.

Good luck to you all on the 2WW. It made me smile this morning to think that in some ways I'm glad I'm not on it - it is SOOOO stressful. Ofcourse rationally I would rather be having kittens like the rest of you, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

I am taking October off as my Dr is away over the key period. Then we are going to try again late Oct/Nov. This is going to be our last cycle as I will be 41 in December and I have decided that is my cut off date. I feel alternately desperate and excited to be moving on.

KC11 you have 2 embryos right where they should be. That's twice as many eggs as in an average cycle, both past the first two big hurdles - fertilising and then starting to divide. Nothing's certain, but you're already way further than any woman TTCing naturally, and that's the whole point of IVF, right?

Don't envy you Saturday though, that sounds tough. Can you tell your mum your news in the day, and ask her to spread it round together with a warning "please please please, do not mention this to KC11 directly - she needs to have a Saturday night off from thinking about this"?

Oh Iselgrin. I'm with you. I haven't done the deed, but I have been thinking about POAS already, and I had the transfer like a week after you or something! You know it's dumb, but you can't resist because the tiny tiny chance of a positive would be so lovely...

I try and enjoy the not knowing. Like Shroedinger's cat, if I can't see the BFN, I can still believe for another week I am pg. (Nuts or what?)

Anyway, this one has to work for us - nothing made it to the freezer, so no second chances. But the one they managed to transfer was only grade 1 (out of 4). I'm trying hard hard hard to stay positive.

OK - I feel like I have to admit it... I've been POAS, even though everyone has told me not to...

I feel it's my constitutional right to be an idiot if I want!!! But consequentially it has brought home the fact that this whole attempt may end like all the rest for the past 4.5 years - BFN. I'm on day 7 post transfer, so HCG won't be high enough to trigger the postitive result yet.

I think it's good to get a dose of reality, because I've had my head in the clouds. The odds haven't changed but I'm working on how I'll handle bad news if it comes on Friday. At least I can expect it.

OK - right, now all of you line up to slap me in the face... ONE AT A TIME, PLEASE!!!

Love to all,
isle

MamaChris Best of luck! Glad to hear your blast is back where it belongs - stick sticky stick to you! And I'm happy to hear there was still some potential for freezer action. One step at a time, one step!

KC11 So glad your back and just during the worst part of it: the last week of wait! Agreed with the (TMI) progesterone leakage, although mine is clear. You have a very good chance of being updifted, good quality embies on day 2 to snuggle in! Keep your chin up and just try to distract yourself. You have to be positive whilst I can roll around the floor in agony not knowing where that crystal ball is and not knowing how I'll make it to Friday!!! One of us has got to be strong!

My DH worked all weekend, leaving me to obsess alone, good for him, actually.

I really need to find something to take my mind off of this potential babyfail. Oh, that's right I've got WORK today!!!

xx

I seem to remember from when I gave acupuncture a go last summer, that they recommend about 6 sessions, all the way through. Some to encourage blood flow to the ovaries and then a couple to encourage the lining of the womb to thicken. It sounds like Ian the acu guy (I cannot remember who mentioned him on here) is really worth seeing.

I really need a crystal ball. I need to know if i'm pregnant. I have to test on sat and there's a family party in the evening. I can't walk in there and have all the females ask me if i've got any news. My mum has obviously been talking to her sister and s-in-law about my second IVF and they've almost certainly told there daughters and daughters in law (two of them texted me last week to say "hope your treatment is going ok"). I really want to be able to say yes, i'm pregnant but it will be so early if i am that i'll feel like i'll jinx it. help. I know my mum means well. She's phoned me every day since the egg collection just to check that i'm not in tears because it's failed. I really really really want this cycyle to work. Please can you remind me that I have a very good chance with two grade 1 4-cell embryos that were put back on day 2.

oooh it's getting very exciting in here. Good luck KC11 Islegrin and MamaChris.

Any advice on acupuncture? what's the theory? Whe is best to have it done etc.?

Oh. Apologies in advance for TOO MUCH INFORMATION - but i really need to ask.... does anyone else have a leaking of water the morning after using progesterone vaginal gel? It really freaks you out as it feels like AF. Then when you get yourself to a loo you realise it was white not red. Sorry for TMI. Hope someone can reassure me.

Hi everyone. sorry i've been so quiet. Had 2 embroys transferred on Sat 12 Sept. In the two week wait.

islegrin Hope you are feeling OK. I hoep your transfer went well. I did take three days off work and the weekend and all i did was stay at home with the TV and a couple of books and lots of cushions (to keep belly warm). I've read that Traditional Chinese Medicine says that a woman should keep her abdomen warm to nurture a baby/embryo and so that it is not allowed to become cold. I'm hoping. I'm also eating lots of sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds and loads of types of nuts. they are supposed to be good for you, fibre and protein. Also I've been eating hard boiled eggs and omelettes quite a bit (protein again). I think I might be trying too hard but at least I know I'm giving my all.

Hey to everyone i've not mentioned.

Well, we had 1 blastocyst transferred yesterday

There were 4 more embryos which were not quite blastocysts, but might still progress, and if they do they will go in the freezer today. so now 9 days till the test...

Am sending positive healthy growth thoughts to my little blast and to Bert and Ernie

Revision: Today when I got left the doc's office...

I think that patch of "hair" on top of Bert is DEFINITELY at toupe! Whew, glad to hear my cultural remark wasn't taken as if that's what we were intending to name the little ones! My DH has a GREAT sense of humor, it really helps keep me sane.

Today when I got left the doc's office I was deflated - because they didn't really offer any hope or comfort either way. They just matter of factly said - we can't tell anything until next week. My symptom spotting didn't impress them at all... <hmpf!> and I've been working so hard at it!

I know, I know, I KNOW! But I just can't help but think about all the possibilities, it's so exciting and maddening. Magically my husband came to my office to have lunch with me and he made me laugh so hard it took away all of my deflated feelings and put me right back on track. His plan for next Friday was to have the nurse call us at a set time when we could be together to hear the news - I was rather in shock because I just ASSUMED I would find out first then tell him over lunch! THEN he had the audacity to run over scenarios in which the nurse would call him first and then he would have several people in his office get me on the phone and taunt me with "Hi isle, I know something you don't know." HA HA HA That is something my DH would DEFINITELY do! There is NO WAY I'm letting that happen, though - don't worry ladies, I'm no pushover! Completely lightened my mood, he is wonderful for that! Also we talked about using my drafting table (4ft x 6ft) as the changing table - perfect for twins or singles and it will even tilt for easy access!

Wonderful day here in bonker-ville!

MamaChris don't worry at all about being cocky - 3 to go to blasts is fantastic! The chances that the one they put back in will take is really good now! Plus - if you only have one tucked back in can't they freeze the other one or two left? (I don't know much about day 5 transfers - LL knows more). Tomorrow will go so smoothly and then you can be bonkers with me! Big hugs, everything will be fine!

I remember Bert & Ernie too islegrin - the Muppet Show was hugely popular over here too. Loving your DH's ability to see that an 8-celled embryo with a crazy hairdo looked like Ernie...

MamaChris - try not to be too disheartened; from what I've heard of others' experience, that sounds about normal. Don't forget the fact they're still dividing and looking good means they're definitely the front-runners so you're giving yourself the best chance by putting them back now. And some people think that there are only ever a few 'workable' eggs/embryos available per cycle, no matter how many eggs were collected.

I remember Bert and Ernie islegrin

Phoned up today to find out about tomorrow's transfer, to be told that the 9 lovely little embyros from yesterday are only 3 today. A bit of a shock - having had 9 fertilised and keep dividing till day 3, I'd started to get cocky about having enough to put some in the freezer.

Still, transfer booked for tomorrow morning, although I need to phone up first thing to check one survived the night. Also a bit worried because I feel like I'm due on any minute (it's about 4 weeks since last period and I'm normally regular as clockwork). Keeping everything crossed and keeping busy.

Just a quick note now - I'll write more later. I'm off to get my progesterone blood level test.

Thank you so very much for all of your wise words, especially the bit about the list of positives and the chocolate! Normally sex helps keep my mind off of things but that's forbidden fruit these days. ;)

By the way - I only realize now that you may not know that Bert & Ernie are names of a very popular puppet duo here in the US. DH dubbed the embies that because that collection of dark cells on the top of one looks like Ernie's small patch of hair! but thanks for taking a look at my lovelies!!!

xx

Hi everyone. Not been on the net much this week. Lots to catch up on.

Islegrin - Wow. You seem to have had a great response and all has gone really smoothly. I looked at Bert and Ernie. Amazing to think of their potential. Take it easy and keep yourself distracted!!

Duplo - Hope you are ok after your GIFT. Hope all those drugs do theirs stuff and give you the best possible chance. Fingers crossed for your 3 eggs.

Londonlottie - 500g already. That must be so exciting. For what it's worth I wouldn't worry about having a C section. Although I had 2 vaginal deliveries, if I'd been pregnant with twins I would have had a section. I believe it is much safer for the second twin in particular and the postion of the babies is important too. The only down side is the recovery time, but if you have good familiy support you will be fine. Do you have family coming over to be with you after they are born? Focus on the postives of not having a vaginal delivery - no tears or stitches down below and less risk of damage to your perineum too! Less risk of piles or stress incontinence. I could go on but you get the idea!!

Bumpless - What a useless counsellor!!! So sorry and I hope you can find a better one or come to terms with things yourselves. It sounds as if she had her own issues to deal with to be honest.

Sooty - Glad your clinic have agreed to pay half of the cost.

Mamachris - Congrats on 9 fertilizing. Hope they are doing well and getting ready for ET. All the best for that. Is it tomorrow?

Mummycat - My left ovary was also hiding behind bowel gas when I had a scan! What can we eat to cause less gas do you think?? Hope you are feeling better now. Does anyone know what happens if they can't see your ovary at EC? What if there's lots of gas then too? Can you tell I'm new to this. I must stop thinking about things too much!!

Thanks to all of you for your congrats re my job. It is working with children with ADHD, autism and other related problems so should be really interesting and a bit challenging too. Have been busy sorting out arrangements for childcare this week, and also buying myself lots of work clothes and some shoes. Oh and a lovely and very practical bag to put all my stuff in.

Hi to everyone I haven't mentioned.

Had follicle count scan on Wed. Felt really dizzy beforehand, but felt really sick and horrid afterwards and wanted to lie down when I got home. Nurse was lovely and really helpful and full of information. My right ovary had lots of follies so that could indicate PCOS, but my left was hiding behind bowel gas! . From what we could see it had some follies in it, but not as many as the right. Thought this was interesting as my left always seemed to perform better and produce bigger follies than my left when going through the endless rounds of Clomid.

Islegrin Took a look at Bert and Ernie. Cute names. Hope they are doing as they should! 2WW ideas - TRY to ignore every symptom. Watch films, read books - do whatever you enjoy doing to keep you busy and treat yourself lots! Chocolate is always good IMO!

Nanoo I will be injecting from start of Oct so will be just behind you I think.

Londonlottie<