Assisted Conceptions (and all the bits in-between) Volume 11

(1001 Posts)
vallinnapod Mon 03-Dec-12 20:30:15

I really hope I haven't missed someone else starting this!

Jewcy Sat 18-May-13 16:51:23

Lucky, what an incredible turn of events, you must be gobsmacked and thrilled in equal measure. Well done, old girl, and well done hubby's sperm! I am now worried because my clinic in the Czech uses the embryoscope but also takes the embryos to day-5 blastos. Are you saying that this is unnecessary? What are your thoughts?

Had my scan today and all is well: 'beautiful' uterus and 'terrific' ovaries. Oh yeah? So why the feck am I not pregnant, then? hmm

Started Utrogestan vaginal pessaries today, too hmm

Lucky, when is OTD?

Luckystarfour Sat 18-May-13 17:11:11

Hi Jewcy

Gobsmacked indeed! Take a look at Care's recent interview on BBC

I would keep a look out on the forums to see what other clinics are saying, but I they have said to us, that because this information is now available to them in the first 24 hours, it makes day 3 transfers much more viable. The decision made for us was also based on the fact that we only had 3 of my hubby's so they didn't want to risk them not reaching blastocyst. However Dr Venkat also said to us, that as expected embryos do develop differently in artificial conditions as therefore fragmentation is much more likely during IVF rounds, therefore getting them back in the natural environment as soon as is always more preferable.

We have always waited to blast. each round, (although last round we did have a day 3 and a day 5 transfer).

One other thing to note from your pessaries, is this your first round Jewcy? Hence have you used pessaries before. Care always use Utrogestan which I believe are 200mg strength - and every time I spotted. My clinic now even thinks the time we did achieve a euphloid blastocyst (ie genitally fine) and tested positive for 4 days - we lost is as my progesterone levels weren't high enough.

My clinic always use Cyclogest - 400mg - to give you an idea Im on 2x 400mg a day and also I am on 100 of gestone injection. My consultant says that you should be able to prevent ever spotting, if you get the progesterone levels right, it dosen't mean the embryo will always embed still, but you would never risk loosing it due to low progesterone. We strongly feel we lost ours embryo's on that round with Care because they wouldn't increase or change my dose.

Also I always felt that pessaries irritated me. My clinic always suggest rectally now and never vaginally - especially pre and post collection and transfer.

Just some thoughts and I dont want to scare anyone doing it differently, but experience has told me these are quite factual observations.

So Test day is 28th May by blood and 30th May by urine :-)

gingernutdreams Sat 18-May-13 17:32:46

Lucky Woo Hoo! I am really pleased for you! Go embies, go!!

Our embies are frozen, so they have already been in the embryoscope and monitored to blastocyst stage. I have 2 but don't know whether they will want to put back one or two when it comes to it. I am currently on day 8 of my medication, getting impatient for my scan on Wed to see how everything is going.

Jewcy I hope you are getting ok with the pessaries. I also ended up taking them rectally last cycle as I had spotting too, and it was less gunky this way (though not very comfortable to put in.. blush) Let us know how your scan goes.

Pocket lovely to hear about your 3D scan and lovely picture of her feet! I bet you can't wait to meet her now!

Beginning lovely to hear from you and how fab that you and pocket are so close with your dates. I hope all goes swimmingly for you for the next 8 weeks.

Hugs to all.


MotorcycleMama Sat 18-May-13 18:29:42

Great news lucky - couldn't be better - congrats!!

Jewcy Sat 18-May-13 22:09:32

Lucky, thank you for sharing your insight and experiences, very interesting about the progesterone dose. Yes, I'm on 200mg Utrogestan twice a day but this is my mock cycle and the progesterone is simply to thicken my womb lining I presume. Because I am using an egg donor I don't think the drug regimen is anywhere near as intense or uncomfortable as for 'normal' IVFers using their own eggs. For example, I do not need to downreg or do any stimming. After the embryos have been implanted I will be given a new set of drugs to fly home with.

The pessaries are absolutely fine! No leaking or discomfort smile

Ginger, my scan went well: 'beautiful uterus lining' and 'terrific' ovaries hmm

Transfer cycle begins 26th May.

Don't Stop Believing xx

sunnyg Mon 20-May-13 20:50:16

wonderful news Lucky on ET. I am so impressed by your clinic's advances and moving with the times. I've watched all of the recent about these advances with interest. I do tend to feel it's these clinics that try these new things out, forge ahead or whatever that make a difference to this fertility business. I have everything crossed for you!

ginger good luck for Wed's scan. I know you are anxious for it. Let us know how you get on. And jewcy not long now for you as well.

Go ladies go!

And don't stop believing okay!


Luckystarfour Wed 22-May-13 06:55:21

Ginger - good luck for the scan today , in terms of how many to put back, weve always gone for 2 - doubles your chances at least.

Jewcy - that's great news and not long until the 26th now

Motorcycle mama - thank you - yes bloomin amazed and happy :-)

Sunny - so good to hear from you. Hope your little twins are getting on just find in their snug home. Are you weaned off any meds yet or does the joys of the daily cocktail still continue?

Pocket - thanks sweetie, I know to not stop believing from your journey alone missie :-)

So - we heard from dr v last night, our embryos that remained in the incubator under embryoscopy continued to develop.

With the donor sperm we had 3 that reached blastocyst - 1 x AA (great quality) 1x AB. 1X AB (pretty great quality) then 3 that reached molar stage just before blastocyst. My hubby's 3rd embie reached molar. Now if wed been selecting a day 6 transfer the two donors would have been the DEFINATE choice but because of the mirracles of embryoscopy they had seen that despite them looking great blastocyst, by day 3 all of the donor embryos had multi nuclearation ( so hence genetically damaged and non viable for pregnancy!) my hubby's 3rd had this too!

So although this is really not the news we wanted to hear about my eggs, it just goes to show that this is such a miracle for us that out of 19 eggs, these two of my hubby's embies had the right sperm and right egg put together completely by chance and we have two genetically normal (or as far as they can tell from the observations) put back.

We got the videos of our embryo development though yesterday and we can now watch the first 6 days of all of the embies life! Crazy, just crazy!! Wouldnt that make an unusual show and tell to our future child if these embies decide to stick around!!!

Can I ask for you ladies who have had egg factors - had anyone been able to tell you why? I asked dr v last night, is it my age (35) is it that I've had 5 rounds of Ivf and eggs forced? Is it she stimulated me harder this time with increased menopur, have I always had it? Trying not to dwell on it too much at this stage however ive basically just had the news that my eggs are a big part of the the problem when they have always blamed the sperm. Whilst the sperm def. hadn't been great, dr v said with this pattern the eggs are making more of the difference as eggs have the chance to repair some sperm damage if the eggs are good.

It leaves us thinking IF this dosent work (and we are so hoping for our miracle) do we need an egg donor with my hubby's sperm or an egg and a sperm donor. Be interested in others egg stories please lovely ladies.

Dr v said biopsying eggs is pretty useful really as it only tells you about that 1 egg and all others could be different in that cycle and different again in further cycles!!! Dosent help me though to understand and whether to risk using mine again when you get the needle in a haystack chance.

In the meantime I promise I will not stop believing xxxxx

MotorcycleMama Wed 22-May-13 08:24:57

It is amazing what they can do with this embryo monitoring stuff isn't it?
lucky you should be awarded a degree in embryo development at the end of all this! Sounds like it has all gone wonderfully well, congrats, and DSB indeed!
jewcy I am getting increasingly alarmed that although we are essentially going through the same process, our treatment seems to be totally different confused! I think that I will be downregging, and I won't start pessaries until the day before the donor's egg collection. Maybe it is because you have a mock cycle?

JuicyPear Wed 22-May-13 13:48:17

Hi, Jewcy here, just had a slight name change to fend off repeated questions about Judaism confused

Lucky, I am boggled by your report, but happily so; I have to pinch myself when I think how fortunate I am to be having the embryoscope. If this doesn't work for you I would definitely go for donor eggs and - depending on your DH's resistance - donor sperm. It also depends how much money you can afford to keep chucking at your own DNA, I suppose. I had one chance at this and didn't want to waste it on my own eggs, despite having an AMH of 5.5 and FSH of 6.5. It's all down to age for me, I'm afraid (almost 42).

Motor, yes, I, too, am bamboozled by this whole protocol. Buzzy, on our other thread, also downregged for her DE IVF. Can't wait for these gloopy pessaries to piss off..

Don't stop believing!

Luckystarfour Wed 22-May-13 18:54:45

Thanks motorcycle mama - if there was a degree if take it! I'd also consider Ivf drug dispensing haha!! Good luck with getting stated.

Juicy pear like the name change :-) I'm so fortunate to have a husband completely on board - he was set for us using donor sperm this time and hence we did. I too feel open to donor eggs. The relief is he didn't give me a look of thunder when I mentioned more Ivf if needed!!! Eeeeek!
Glad you mock cycle is going well :-)

But in this forums true ethos - I won't need either as I won't stop believing that this is going to work :-)))

Gingernut - hope the scan went well?

Waves to all

Off to the cinema to see the great gadsby tonight for some girley fun

have a good evening all


JuicyPear Wed 22-May-13 19:25:50

Oh, crickey, Lucky, I messed up my last post. Of course I know your husband doesn't mind donor sperm 'cos you had half-and-half tested this time. D'OH! blush

Pocket1 Thu 23-May-13 14:21:27

Juicy sounds like you're making good progress. Hang in there. Btw I'm 33+6 with what was originally a 5 day blasto... They picked the best one (well two in fact) and the theory is that they do better inside than out (if you know what I mean) and therefore the odds are good.

Ginger hon, hope scan yesterday went well. What's the update?

Lucky DSB. How was the movie?

Hope everyone is doing well

All together now, "don't stop beleiving"

Luckystarfour Thu 23-May-13 15:40:54

Hi pocket

Movie was good! Just what I needed some girley time and a two hour switch off :-) glad i didn't pressure myself to read the book before going, as I might have been disspointed!

No worries Jewcy - haha. I keep thinking we do have the donor ones back, as wed got our mind so fixed on that's the way it would have to be!

Lots of exciting work distractions this week so 6 days have passed quickly so far :-) 4 days to go - roll on Tuesday!!! Fortunately i have been able to keep my feet up whilst tapping away on the laptop.

Have a great bank holiday weekend everyone if I don't check in.

gingernutdreams Thu 23-May-13 21:56:07

Hi all!

My scan went well thanks. My lining was 10mm which they seemed happy with. We signed the consent forms, and decided on our thaw plan (basically thaw one, then if it does not survive, thaw the other one) and to have one put back. We have 2 blasts, one day 5, one day 6. We also paid our dues, so are feeling a lot poorer now! wink I am now on the progesterone pessaries, 2 a day, and am looking forward to the embryo transfer next Tues! grin Feeling really quite excited now, and really starting to believe this one could be it!

Big hugs to you all, and will give another update after my transfer on Tues. I am off to a wedding this weekend, so last chance to let my hair down a bit (but not too much obviously).


MotorcycleMama Thu 23-May-13 22:30:04

Good luckginger !

JuicyPear Fri 24-May-13 16:10:43

Yay! Good luck, Ginger! thanks

JuicyPear Fri 24-May-13 16:12:09

Pocket, I'm confused. I've also heard that embies are better off inside than out, but where does that leave us when it comes to 5-day blastos? Surely they are 'out' the longest time and yet are seen to be the strongest/best?

Pocket1 Fri 24-May-13 18:24:54

Juicy I was told that only the strongest survive to 5 days. So on that basis they should do well when they go back in where they are more at home wink

Lucky and Ginger keep chilled this weekend and jam-packed with positivity. Tuesday is an exciting day for you both smile

Happy bank hols everyone. x

Luckystarfour Fri 24-May-13 22:50:20

Hi all

Quick check in from me. Had my progesterone readings and folate today and progesterone levels have dropped alot from 481 tuesday to 171.2 today and she wants it between 200 and 500. Aplarenlty above 100 is ok, but she doesnt want to leave it low ye to the scale of drop. So now increased my gestone injections to two a day with my 2 pessaries. I'm not spotting which is encouraging so we shall wait and see what Tuesday brings.

I can't highlight enough though ladies - look after your progesterone levels and get your blood tests every three days after transfer to keep a check on these levels. I def. feel we lost our one positive pregnancy as I spotted and Care did not measure my levels or increase my drugs.

Gingernut how exciting Tuesday is the big day. Keep positive and enjoy your long weekend.

Juicy / pocket from our recent tests using embryoscopy is hce to disagree about only the genetically able and strongest survive until day 5, our donors embies on day 5 were a grade a blastocyst however it was day 2-3 that showed the genetical damage. We've also had our embies genetically tested in our last cycle and again they can 'look'perfect on any day by be genetically damaged.

The key to embryoscopy is they for have to keep taking the embies back in and out of the incubator to check them and they don't have to take cells from the embryos I entice all test them (as you do in CGH) of they have the 24 hour a day video footage.

What I'm learning is its really important to know when there is nuclearation (damage) as out of 15 of our embies - 13 showed this on day 3, despite at least 6 'looking' perfect on day 6.

Of to keep positive and still believe that Tuesday could be our day.

DSB ladies xxxx

JuicyPear Sat 25-May-13 02:13:59

Thanks, Pocket, enjoy your weekend, love x

Lucky, so interesting what you say about progesterone levels after transfer. A lady over on another thread has just returned from Reprofit after DE IVF and, happily, she is pregnant. However, she is spotting and crampy and her progesterone level is 22. Her clinic abroad has told her to up the anal pessaries from two to three per day but she is still worried. I feel so sorry for her that she is anxious like this. The problem for those of us going abroad for IVF is this: who is going to give us blood tests every three days when we come home?

I am worried now sad

MotorcycleMama Sat 25-May-13 06:02:19

Thanks lucky for the really useful information. Like jewcy I am panicking a bit as I don't recall seeing anywhere that my clinic do this sort of follow up. I am seeing them on the 28th for my prostap injection and endometrial scratch, and will add it to my list of questions for them.
So far my questions are: should we have ICSI?; can we have a mock transfer as I have an odd shaped retroverted uterus and I have read horror stories of transfers being botched?; how can I have a risk of ectopic pregnancy with DE? I will add what follow up and checking of progesterone levels would I get following a BFP?

Luckystarfour Sat 25-May-13 06:20:00

Hi Jewcy and motorcycle

Didn't mean to worry you both, just feel its important to share what I know. So many clinics don't monitor progesterone levels - Care was one of them. I spotted ever time and they never upped my pessaries of have gestone. The liquid for of progesterone is easier ansorbed by some women hence gestone prescribed too. I now take pessary 40g cyclogest 7am, 12pm 50ml injection of gestone, 5pm cyclogest, 11pm pessary. (Last cycle I even added a 3 am pessary as I had some spotting with the above dose)

You can arrange for your own testing and report results back to clinic. I do that through a BUPA hospital and pay £60 progesterone testing and £44 folate (asy folic acid levels need to be watched) I also test my thyroid through my gp. He won't fund the others! My clinic would do this and do this for all patients as standard as they have had women whove had no testing in previoud clinics loose pregnances on progesterone levels being wrong. The testing needs to be after transfer and not waiting til you get your bfp as this is the point you need then measured to help achieve you bfp.

As I say please don't be scared, this is Just info to make an informed choice. I would now always pay for a private hospital or gp to check if my clinic refused. It's another safety belt.

There are still many clinics who don't believe in testing.

Of course the fact is is that the progesterone can not save an embryo that is genetically faulty and that's not embedding. So you may not get spotting but equally it won't necessarily mean your pregnant either.

Hope this clarrifies .

Of motorcycle - I have a retroverted womb - I can honestly say collection and transfer is no problem. When you drink the water (almost a litre) before transfer this helps to straighten the cervix and the bladder pushes in it.

I always ask for a small spectulum as this is just more comfortable.

Hope this puts your minds more at rest. Xxx

Luckystarfour Sat 25-May-13 06:21:01

Sorry for spelling errors on iPhone!
Pessaries are 400mg not 40!!

Luckystarfour Sat 25-May-13 06:22:20

Opps and 11pm not pessary but injection 100ml of gestone

Pocket1 Sat 25-May-13 09:54:07

I echo what Lucky says about progesterone levels and getting this checked. In fact it was Lucky who first told me about this.

I started to bleed at about 9 weeks. Got checked and my progesterone had dropped also. Meds increased, seemingly all fine - and as you all know I'm 34+1! smile

Don't stop believing. And don't stop asking your clinics for all the help and advice they can give. And if you're not satisfied, ask elsewhere...


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