TTC 10+ months, Part 11

(1000 Posts)
buzzybee123 Mon 05-Nov-12 19:55:46

A very friendly and supportive thread for those taking way longer than they had ever expected to make a baby.

EuroShagmore Tue 20-Nov-12 11:56:28

It's definitely proper period, unfortunately.

I'm pretty sure that something happened though - nausea, exhaustion, feeling like I was getting thrush (I have never had it off the Pill), some brown tinged CM a couple of days past ov (never had this before), temps all over the place rather than just going up and staying up, and now my period way early - it's too many things for it to be coincidence. And the nausea and exhaustion have gone today. So near and yet so far.

I'll have my fingers crossed for doll and the other 10+ers whether IVFing or not.

MuddyWellyNelly Tue 20-Nov-12 12:33:50

Oh Euro. Balls and buggeration. I was so hopeful for you. sad But sounds like sperm met egg. Fingers crossed it happens again bloody soon.

I have been dwelling on the implications of the reasons behind not getting pregnant. Recently I've been feeling its not a level playing field. If I don't even get to EC stage I don't stand a chance, and natural BFP seems like a one in a million chance. I do however believe every other person on this thread will get pregnant one way or another, even if it takes a while longer. A failed month, whatever the reason, is heartbreaking. But you will get there. I know it smile. Everyone will. Except probably me and my dead ovaries. But that's ok because I am going to rescue a German Shepherd next year. grinwink.

EuroShagmore Tue 20-Nov-12 12:41:34

You too Nelly. You will not be the crazy lady of Briget Jones' daydreams who ends up eaten by Alsatians.

EuroShagmore Tue 20-Nov-12 12:44:48

Bridget

MuddyWellyNelly Tue 20-Nov-12 12:59:13

That was actually my aim. If the Alsations eat me, at least I don't have to worry about no children to come to my funeral grin <inappropriate humour>.

Anyway the GSD we had before destroyed her teeth carrying stones around everywhere, so would have had to gum me to death.

Hope you feel ok Euro. Do you feel better or worse that it was a near-hit? As opposed to a near miss obviously.

Jeez my phone posts are always very garbled.

ArtemisTheHunter Tue 20-Nov-12 13:04:36

Just popping in to say congratulations to Doll, two grade A embies, that's brilliant! Sounds like the ET process kept up the stress factor though. A doctor taking a call during the procedure is a new one on me... FWIW I didn't have the usual consultant either not that i minded as i don't like him. It was a new one for the EC and a different one again for ET. But they were kind and explained everything properly and nobody answered the phone with their head between my legs... Welcome to the long wait. How do you feel now? I was told putting two embies back in gave me the best chance of a single pregnancy, but then mine weren't great. The chance of twins he put at 10%, but that's 10% of what is already a very small number (something like a 20% chance it will work in the first place?) so I figured it was worth the risk.

Euro that sounds strange indeed. I hate those WFT months.

Madness I'm glad your appointment provided some reassurance. Sounds like you have a plan smile

Buzz hope the testosterone results were good, when do you find out about your AMH? You're braver than me, I don't want to know.

Joy shock at your mum! She's swallowed the book on things not to say. Mine is convinced I must now be pregnant. i'm having to avoid her. She thinks I'm being negative because I refused to get into a conversation about potential maternity leave. Don't they realise it's already hard enough?

Gin I don't blame you at not wanting to pay £50 to have a needle stuck in your arm. I'm smarting at the £350 bill for culturing the embies that didn't make it. FFS, they sat in a dish for two days, they weren't exactly feasting on champagne and caviar. This whole procedure is a license to print money.

Rabbit how's the tooth? Hope it's behaving itself. Wisdom teeth are a bugger and completely inappropriately named.

Nelly I would bet my right arm that every single one of us on this thread believes it will happen for everyone else but not for us. German Shepherds all round grin

I'm a bit wobbly today. I've been to pilates (did the easy version of everything) but now am thinking I shouldn't have... they told me gentle exercise was OK so I thought non cardio would be fine but have since consulted Dr Google. Big mistake. Maybe I should hold off doing anything for the rest of the 2ww just so I don't do my own head in over it. Surely if this thing doesn't work it won't be my fault for going to pilates for an hour? confused

MuddyWellyNelly Tue 20-Nov-12 13:16:50

Art, step away from Google angry. <stern>. Pilates will NOT have ruined your chances. But stressing definitely will not help. I think I said yesterday that my woo ladies are VERY big on keeping the stress hormones out at this stage. Do whatever you need to chill. But do not google!!! I think it's been said on here before, but the only thing to do is avoid the "what ifs". So if it doesn't work, you want to say I gave it my best shot, not, "what if I'd not gone sky diving". FWIW I will be mucking out my hobbles every day. Driving my 7.5 ton lorry and lifting up the heavy ramp. Carrying heavy things. It's unavoidable. That's if I get to ET of course hmm. But I actually think Pilates is a good thing to do because it calms you. So there smile.

Do you really think everyone feels they will be the one left? I wonder why? I read everyone else's stories and think "that's ok, that's surmountable". By which of course I don't mean to trivialise the suffering, but that I see a way forward for everyone.

I agree Buzzy by the way about being brave on the AMH. Mind took about a week to come back I think? Now that's a phonecall I will never forget. Fingers crossed yours is rather less distressing xxx

sarlat Tue 20-Nov-12 13:48:59

Art - pilates will be fine. wink I have been very impressed with your one day at a time attitude.

Euro - I am sorry period has come in full force. As I said to Rabbit, chemical pregnancies (even if not confirmed by a test) tell you that there is lots of potential. Maybe this was sent down to restore a little bit of hope. I hope you feel ok. It's a funny old thing isn't it.

Nelly - I second what Art says - eveyone here thinks everyone but them will get prego. But I know that when you feel that way out, you just feel that way out and it sucks. I'm sorry Nell - I really want to make you feel better. Sometimes I think it is when we dare to hope and believe that the fear can come crashing down again all too soon. Please remember those extra follies that they found at scan. Focus on the next scan and the next scan only. You need to see each little step as a small hurdle to jump (not think about an actual baby at this stage). And recently you have had a little victory! grin So 2 fingers up to the world and the fertility clinics of the universe. Lets see where we are at the end of this week. You are a very brave lady indeed and I have everything crossed.

Gin - how are things? how are you feeling?

Just got back from pre op appointment at first hospital -was fine, nothing to write home about. And then on to the second hospital for a consultant appointent. Well thank goodness is was actually her I saw his time as I was half expecting to be seen by the dentist, the canteen lady or the cardiology nurse based on my clinic's ability to get appointments right. grin.

Nice consultant feels the awkward embryo transfers did NOT cause the recent BFN. She doesn't believe it can cause this level of problem espeically when no trauma has occured eg, lots of bleeding. confused. I am inclined to believe my consultant about this issue and not the other one who did the transfer but I am really getting tired about the mystery and conflict around what is wrong with me. I asked her what she thinks is the cause of another failed cycle. She thinks bad DNA in the embryo which isn't visible to the naked eye could still be the problem (i.e. bad luck and my body detected down syndrome or similar). Apparantly some women's bodies are more 'picky' over embryos - but that isn't necissarily a good thing in my opinion. However tubes may also be causing my failiure - see below.

Then we discussed the op - we will go ahead with cervix dilation as planned but it isn't the main focus any more. Consultant is concerned that my right tube may be irrepairably damaged which may be leaking toxic fluid in to the womb - but of course she won't know until she gets inside and has a look. She asked for my permission to remove the tube if it is bad (very possible). At which point I started to cry. Then she changed and agreed she would not remove anything and simply assess, tidy up and repair where possible. If the right tube is badly damaged, I have the option to remove it at a later operation. She thinks the left tube is also damaged but possibly not to the same extent as on the right and so the threat of removal is less likely.

I am grateful for her person centred approach. And, I don't really have any more information than I had before. But I am struggling to feel settled about my op because I know I may have to hear some very bad news when I wake up. Being in the consultation room today crystalised some thoughts and feelings. The disorted and scarred pelvis problem (in my mind) is somehow seperate and worse than my TTC woes - even thought they are connected. It made me realise I see myself as ill and deformed as well as subfertile and I am not prepared to surrender anything (at lease at this stage) to have a baby. I feel hard done by today -sorry, I have been moaning a great deal latley. But I also feel better for writing it down here - so thank you ladies.

On a positive note, as both appointments were morning time, Chum and I now have the afternoon together at home to drink tea and watch crap TV smile

EuroShagmore Tue 20-Nov-12 14:06:17

sarlat she does sound like a nice consultant. I know what you man about thinking of yourself as "broken" in some way. I feel the same (even though nothing has been diagnosed I cannot help feeling that there is something wrong inside me). Enjoy your afternoon!

art pilates won't have done anything bad at all. I had IUI at one clinic and was told to take it very easy - no exercise, no lifting (why? That is to protect the mother from SPD - very unlikely before a positive preg test!). The leaflet we were given in the course of our IVF at King's said carry on as normal during the 2ww. If there was any strong research either way, they would all give the same advice. The fact is that no one knows why some embies stick and some don't. But I very much doubt that an hour of gentle exercise will have anything to do with it! Nelly is giving good advice.

Nelly I'm not sure if I feel better for feeling that something happened. It hasn't given me a baby. And it was 2.5 years between incidents. I don't think I could take another 2.5 years of this only for it to happen again!

rabbitonthemoon Tue 20-Nov-12 14:19:45

Oh balls euro. Those curveball cycles are the pits, as if it isn't hard enough already. We know up bodies amd cycles intricately well as we've been in the game long enough so you know when things don't add up and suggest inner activity to which we aren't privy. Hope you're ok.

sar hugs. I feel like that about my flipped over womble and kinked cervix. Like, how the fuck did that happen? It's hard to get your head around the idea that things inside aren't quite as they should be when everything feels ok (though in my case cyclical pain lets me know that things are not in the right place). I too think deformity when actually we just have anomalies, like sticky out ears, broken noses and stuff that most people would just get used to but the implications are far reaching so it feels more at the core of who we are. For example, there is a small kink in my bowel where I had my appendix out when I was little, due to a v small adhesion (not near my womble though for ages I did wonder ..) this causes like a little bulge when I lie down and am a bit gassy, you can watch it travel through! Do I care about it or think much of it - no. I don't think of it as being broken or anything even though it can be a bit crampy etc, its just a weird bit of me. But fertility things hit so much harder than that. I can only imagine how you feel about the op but you know the worst case scenario now and can think in a contingency way. However, you know I think our insides change and heal a lot and it almost definitely won't be as bad as you might be mentally forecasting. I am wholly with you that I would want tidying up and have time to think about choices, should it come to that. But I feel in my bones that it won't.

art I think babies are pretty difficult to budge once they are on their way. I can only think that Pilates will have helped but it must be so hard not to over think things. You are doing amazingly. I feel your pain at the £350 though, wow.

nelly I think that about myself. I see myself as having dysfunctional uterine apparatus that will be impossible to give ivf to should I ever get there with poor egg quality and possibly even poor embryo quality with suspect immune issues, a shite blood group and a bit old and past it, too skinny and basically a barren write off. I have grin reading that but actually that is how I feel. We are bitches to ourselves! Thinking of you with the next hurdle. You have special hobble skills for hurdle jumping!

Well the tooth is stable but bloody sore and my face is swollen which every man and his dog feel fit to tell me. I couldn't bear to have it out (no more hospitals!) so praying it passes. I do think its making me feel a bit off though. Stupid wisdom teeth, I did not ask for you or need you!

rabbitonthemoon Tue 20-Nov-12 14:20:55

My noses and ears comment makes no sense! Sorry <blush>

akuabadoll Tue 20-Nov-12 14:43:16

Wow sar you really got dealt a hand, didn't you? As hard as it is, it's good that you are so skilled at identifying what your pain is and work towards the path that's right for you. hugs.

euro how are you feeling about this? There are positives as well as the negatives, right? It's not something I have experienced for real, I do imagine that somewhere inside I'd feel impressed that 'something' happened but perhaps that's just because I don't know what I'm talking about

artemis pilates is totally fine, the only way it's not is if you can't get your head around it, if it worries you then of course leave it for now. Thanks for sharing your twin stats grin I'm feeling fine thanks.

nelly yes indeed it does seem like other peoples issues are somehow more surmountable than one's own. I feel like I'm in a whole different universe of sub fertility, more than a decade in, it's an odd place. In regard to taking it easy - i have some avoidables and some unavoidables, its just the way it is. Yesterday I rushed about unfortunately and tomorrow I have to travel for work so I'm trying to have an easy going day today.

gin are you ok?

rabbit how is the tooth?

Waves to everyone over the page and lurking......

akuabadoll Tue 20-Nov-12 14:51:08

Ah there you are rabbit sorry about the tooth. They really are rubbish. As much as I hated the idea I had one taken out a few years back. Perhaps the Americans have this right and just get rid of them all.

sarlat Tue 20-Nov-12 15:12:17

Ladies - thanks for the responses.

Euro - sorry to hear you feel broken too - unexplained is very painful and all the more baffeling. I know this is an easy thing to say, but I don't think you will wait another 2.5 years my lovely. But I know your pain well.

Doll - your hugs feel nice. I suppose I do know how I feel yes - I hope I can get to an end point one day. I'm sorry you feel bad about being a decade in - it's a lonely jouney at times isn't it. Be kind to yourself for the next few days. Hoping they settle in nicely.

Rabbit - I am sorry the pesky 'wisdom tooth' hasn't settled. If this were any other time in your life, you would just have the fecker removed wouldn't you. But this TTC shite and it's medical procedures really really does affect us doen't it. I learnt today that I too have a kinked cervix - we are kinky cervix twins grin. Thank you for what you said about 'in your bones' - I sort of needed to hear that today. I need some hope. They just don't know what's wrong with me. I'm ashamed to say that the 'big C' word has stared to enter my mind too. blush. I also learnt today that even if they can repair me to some extent, the chances of natural conception goes up only by a few percent. This made me sad - I had been hoping that this op may swing things my way. Rabbit - do you mind me asking about your cyclial pain and why this made you think all was not well? Is this to do with the pressue you use to get from the broid?

rabbitonthemoon Tue 20-Nov-12 15:36:51

Yup doll I should have had it taken out at infection no 2 but oddly I was told I needed three major ones before it came out. How you feeling today?

sar the verdict was, officially, that I had a large fluid filled uterine cyst (rare) that ruptured during the eye wateringly painful rectal examination. Yippee! However, said cyst has pulled my womb backwards almost like a folded over one (I saw the MRI) bending the cervix and now it nestles touching against my bowel. I tend to get pain just after my period, much worse ovulation pain (needing co codamol) and sometimes but thankfully not always, before my period is due. Dr Big explained the pre period pain as larger womb rubbing bowel, after period pain as womb shrunken and rubbing but is mystified by worsened ov pain. He guaranteed i would be in pain, cyclically, until i got pregnant which would correct the uterus position properly. <observes small error in this plan> he also said early pregancny would be very painful and could require hospitalisation until week 10-12 but i block that out as it doesnt seem a very real possibility. I think my ovaries moved during the op, perhaps. None of this apparently affects my fertility cos don't you know sperms are tiny and eggs are tiny and its all just dandy hmm but I do wonder to be honest. Actually I wonder if its all shite and that I have endo that they missed so little do I trust in what happened. But then, my womb was taken out of my body and scrutisnised and squeezed (!) by two people so I guess they would have seen anything amiss. I too wonder about the c word but I'm still here and not worse, actually a bit better so I figure I'm not dying and there is no way anyone is shoving anything up my arse at this moment in time! It does hurt though, it's v painful today. Like a mixture of ibs and womb cramps. I guess I'm stuck with it. If I'd had kids, I'd say goodbye to my womb as it has become rather a nuisance.

But it's all so bloody mysterious and I too would feel much happier with definitive answers. I frequently wonder if a different hospital would have handled everything differently and come up with an entirely different set of answers. But if we have found each other on here, I imagine kinked cervixes are more common than you'd think?

Have just read that back and am not actually surprised it took 5 months for my periods to normalise. Poor womb.

GinSoaked Tue 20-Nov-12 15:57:36

doll you still sound so calm! My clinic told me to poas 16 days after EC, so hopefully that will help you to work out when you should do so.

Rabbit Sorry to hear about the tooth. I had one removed a few years ago and it was hideous. Never again. Have you tried antibiotics? The amoxicillin I had for my lurgy also cleared up my remaining wisdom tooth and it’s pregnancy friendly.

I’m so sorry to hear that rabbit and sar feel broken. You are both lovely, lovely ladies and are not any more broken than the rest of us! You will win a baybee one day.

Sar your consultant sounds nice, although it must be frustrating to not have any concrete answers and the idea of the op must be terrifying. I totally get what you say about not being willing to have things removed to get a baby. When I found out about my fibroids, there was no way I was going to have them removed, as we’d still have needed IVF – luckily they’re small and not in a problematic place, so it’s not an issue. I was also unwilling to do any kind of IVF other than mild. I think it’s important to know your limits and not be bullied into anything else. Ultimately it’s us that has to go through all the surgery and treatment.

euro sorry to hear about the suspected CP, but it is a good sign that sperm met egg. I hope you feel ok.

nelly you WILL get to ET! You now have a good number of follicles growing. I really do feel that I’m going to be the only person who will never get pregnant – we know for certain that it won’t ever happen naturally. With this IVF, I feel another step closer to it.

artemis Don’t worry about the pilates, particularly as you are used to doing it. In fact my clinic told me to keep moving, but just not to get tired – which I took to mean “go shopping”! Movement is good for the circulation and also helps dispel the evil OHSS fluid.

madness hope the appointment went well.

buzzy hope Barry’s results were ok.

Oh joy I can’t believe your mum came out with all that stuff! I’d have lost it I think, no matter how well meaning, but misinformed the person was. Could you send her on a clinic open day to gain some understanding of it all?

Waves to everyone else.

I did another HPT this morning (I know, I know, I shouldn’t have) and it was negative again. I’m now 14 days post EC and I used an ultra sensitive, so I’m pretty sure it’s right. I’m going to stop the clexane, but will continue with the progesterone until OTD, Thursday. I spent a good hour crying, much to Dave’s horror – he’s much more of a sweep it under the carpet and be secretly depressed for months and tells me to not get so upset, whereas I like a good bawl for a day or so and then generally feel ok.

I identify with a lot of what you said sar after your FET. We had good quality embryos and I was in a good place mentally and physically this time and yet it still didn’t work. I’ve never had the chance to be pregnant other than in the IVF cycles, so I have no idea if there is anything up with my womble. I feel one step nearer to never being pregnant, let alone having children, and hate that we put so much effort into the cycle – eating right, relaxing etc etc for it to have failed. In fact I feel a bit of a failure. Normally in life, if you work hard and do what you’re told, you get what you want. I think this is partly why infertility is so hard.

We have the FET left to do, but I do hold out much hope as we only have a single embryo and it may not survive being defrosted. Then onto iui with donor sperm. I have no idea how we’re going to pay for all of this. We didn't have to pay for the culture artemis, but did have to pay £350 for the freezing and storage of 1 little embryo. We can’t just keep taking money of Dave’s parents. Anyway, vent over. I am fine but just need to wallow for a bit.

rabbitonthemoon Tue 20-Nov-12 16:08:05

Gin sad I'm so sorry about the BFN. It's so bloody unfair. But no period yet? You are not a failure. It's a funny thing, infertility. In no other walk of illness/medical issues would failing ever come into it. And I so know what you mean about doing as you're told and working hard and still not getting anywhere. Controversially I no longer believe that any amount of health plans or supplements or green ness or woo will get me pregnant. I am sure if you lead a very unhealthy life, coffee by the gallon, drugs, smoking, on the lash very night and eating McDonald's every day then yes, maybe. But I no longer see any of that as being my answer. I have tried almost all eat right for your type/alternative therapy/organic 'plans' It gives me nice skin and usually the shits. You have done your absolute best and it is perfectly fine to bawl! Men process things ever so differently. I hope that the bfn is just too early. And if not, that your little frozen one turns up trumps. And even then, it is no way game over. But playing the game doesn't half get tedious. Massive hug gin - you WILL get there.

sarlat Tue 20-Nov-12 16:51:34

Gin - I just want to echo what Rabbit has said. You are not a failiure! Unlucky - yes. A brave lady who will get her goal in the end - yes! It is all so so so tough and I am glad you have cried! My consultant repeatedly tells me that even the best looking embryos may not be what they seem. But I know no amount of scientific facts are going to make you feel better just now. All that emotional, financial and physical investment and then at the end of the 2WW it all feels over very suddenly. I hope your AF doesn't show up, but if it does there is still a way forward. Big big hugs. Let me know if you are in my neck of the woods soon. xx

sarlat Tue 20-Nov-12 17:02:28

Geez - ladies my spellings get worse blush sorry

buzzybee123 Tue 20-Nov-12 17:52:59

gin sorry about the BFN but you never know until AF turns up, big hugs you know where I am if you want to meet up

euro its a frustrating and confusing when you are unsure what is happening with your body, I felt like that with my 43 day cycle hmm

rabbit eating honey might be good for your tooth, hope it goes away, I had my wisdom teeth cut out of my gums when I was 15 as I had braces at the time

joy shock and hmm at your mothers comments, would help if she thought a bit more before she spoke to you, can I ask why she is so anti you trying IVF?? You can tell me to mind my own business

doll and art thinking of you both smile as other have said Pilates will not have caused any problems

nelly I suppose its a natural and slightly protective reaction to have that you will be the only one left without a child, some people probably find that its helps not to have high expectations then the hurt and disappointment is not so great. Fingers crossed for your next scan

sar I'm glad you had a good consultant to talk to, its hard hearing bad news as you then tend to think about all sorts of scenarios after, can I ask that if the leaking tube is causing problems would it not be best for it to be removed if she is unable to repair it, I know its a big thing but do they think the leaking toxins are causing you not to fall pregnant/ hazardous if you do become pregnant ?? I don't know where you work but I think you are up north somewhere, do you have a counsellor through your Occ health dept, its good to off load to a RL person plus you get to do it on company time smile

I'm sorry so many seem low right now, it really is shit that such fantastic women as ourselves should be in this position < shakes fist in the air screw 'you universe'>

Barry's testosterone is 'normal' doesn't explain the sesh failures hmm but they did give him some viagra so tomorrow we'll give it ago, if not its DIY IUI for us grin
thanks art and nelly but I'm not too worried about my AMH, I already know that my ovarian reserve is low for my age so it won't come as a shock, plus this is just Create's view on things, Shehata was less worried by my stats and he works off your E2 which was ok. I feel more in control if I know everything good or bad, then we are in a better position to make a decision, I'd more rather know my chances are slim then to kid myself that they are ok, if the results are really bad then I will be better off spending the money on DE. I'm more about having my blood taken, really can't stand it..........

sarlat Tue 20-Nov-12 18:23:01

Buzz - you are exactly right about why they might want me to remove my tube. I know it seems senseless to refuse to have it removed if it is in a very bad way but I just can't make that emotional leap at present. Yes, I want a baby very very much but because I can't believe or haven't come to terms with how damaged I am inside my pelvis (because there is no clear cause), I can't envisage allowing my tube or tubes to be removed. Maybe one day I will feel different. But I think I will be very cross with myself if I allow the possibility of them to be removed without being at peace with that. I'm not sure even a beautiful baby conceived via IVF would make me feel at peace with that idea of no tubes at the moment. I know this is ironic and I am probably not making much sense. I suppose I am very frightened and at the moment learning how bad they are (or aren't) feels like a mssaive jump in itself.

I am impressed with your approach to your results to help you plan. You sound far more sensicle than me in your decsion making and I have no doubt you will get what you want Buzz. You have been such an inspiration and I can't thank you enough for all the support you give me. Its great that Barry's testosterone is all ok. By the way on the topic of results, my consultant thinks lower AMH levels are not all that bad - it's about looking at a combination of things.

MuddyWellyNelly Tue 20-Nov-12 18:28:00

Sar - blame the spelling on iphones. It's the obvious 67y65 (cat wrote that, sorry) answer. I am sorry the consultant made you cry, but I'm not surprised given what she said. I guess there is no easy way to ask that sort of question though. Like the responses to Rabbit re IVF, you don't have to do anything you don't want (life saving medical treatment notwithstanding). In fact, the very useful work course I was on a couple of months ago was based on the Pacific Institute - a guy called Lou Tice founded it and we were shown loads of DVDs of him teaching. He passed away this year, and youtube videos aren't really capturing the essence of what he taught otherwise I'd link some. But one phrase more than any captured my imagination. It was "From now on, do only what you want to do, not what you have to do. But be prepared to live with the consequences". The thinking was, you don't have to go to your job or pay your taxes, but there will be consequences. No home, going to jail, whatever they may be. So switch it round and say, I want to go to my job every day, because I want this nice house, or whatever it is. It's just another way of saying that nobody is forcing you to do anything; but I personally found it useful as I live my life feeling a bit victim-y. If removing your tubes is not what you want to do, don't do it. You'll be making an informed choice, and understanding what that means for you; but ultimately you will be happy because you made the decision, and did what you wanted. I know it's easy to say though, and that the decision itself isn't black and white. But you have time. I think investigations first, followed by an opportunity to chat and think through is a very wise move. Once the tube is out, it's out, so it's not something you rush in to.

Sorry the tooth is still so bothersome Rabbit. Clove oil? <winces>. Gosh I don't think I'd seen all the details of your cyst/investigations/surgery written down like that before. No flipping wonder you don't want to go through any more. I will say, up to now IVF has been a walk in the park compared to what you have already done. Eye wateringly painful rectal exam??? <winces again>. Have some brew or perhaps even some wine. And definitely a large slab of cake.

Gin oh goodness sorry about the BFN. But it's not over yet. Hang in there. And you do still have the frostie. So another shot before you have to worry about those other options. One day at a time <takes own medicine>. Big hugs.

Very interesting chat about the feelings behind our own individual cases of infertility. I was feeling very maudlin the other night and dwelling on my misfortune (see above re being a victim hmm). But of course it matters not a jot why that BFN/AF appears each month. The pain is just the same. The self-flaggellation just as severe. Perhaps the thing for me that might apply to others is the panic - time is running out, that if I don't catch the egg very soon then I really will be snookered. I've always thought that if I just get to ET I'll at least feel I was given my opportunity to play the game? But maybe not. But I think it comes down to the oh-so-familiar feelings of failure. MrN is sick of telling me I haven't failed. Even when I rather dramatically told him I didn't feel like a woman any more, that I was barren and empty, that I felt old and ugly, that he could run off and have kids with someone else but I couldn't give him children, that I wasn't allowed to be part of the same smug-club everyone else is in. Etc etc etc. I'm sure we've all been there a hundred times. But Rabbit you hit the nail on the head when you said that any other medical condition you would not see as a personal failing, so it makes no sense that we beat ourselves up this way. Back to Lou Tice - he teaches the dangers of self-talk. And my hypno reflects this and tells me I have to literally shout STOP when I hear myself do it. I had kind of forgotten in the last few weeks about that. I will endeavour to stop the voices in my head, or at least replace them with cheery ones.

One other thing. I've been trying to spoil myself a bit more. Nothing major. Just making a point of applying night creams and lovely Molton Brown hand creams and filing my nails and stuff. All quite fluffy but between the fact I'm always caked in mud and shit, I have my wedding in just over 4 weeks, and I'm generally feeling rather low in the self-esteem stakes, I reckon it can't do any harm. so on that note I'm off to the bath with my to do list a good book smile

sarlat Tue 20-Nov-12 18:28:13

Sorry - I didn't mean low AMH, I meant low AFC. Slaps own head. I am no AMH expert but I am sure this applies for all test results.

MuddyWellyNelly Tue 20-Nov-12 18:34:03

cross post buzzy and sar. I want your consultants. Everyone who has referred to my AMH has done so with this face >>> hmm and every time they do, I go into a pit of doom. Even though it's the same message I got the time before.

Bastard AMH test grin. Although admittedly I'm combining low AMH with high age, and low AFC.

But Buzzy you sound very very philosophical about it. It's very admirable, you are a strong lady smile

buzzybee123 Tue 20-Nov-12 18:44:06

sar it takes time to process what we are told, I know I did with all the IVF stuff, you have to do what you feel is right for you, I'm nearly 40 so can't expect great results, I'm trying DHEA but who knows, I think I'm pretty average with my E2, FSH and LH so we shall see, I need to have a plan have realised getting worried and stressed doesn't help me, I'm only peeing on ov sticks this month, can't be bothered with all the other stuff I used to do, all the lists and facts I have kept over the last 2 years haven't really made any difference so why waste my time, I need to be happy now and although having a baby will make me happy I am ultimately responsible for my own happiness not anyone else

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