The Short Luteal Phase Gang(297 Posts)
I've noticed that the question about a short LP comes up quite a lot, and I would love it if we had our own thread to discuss where methods we are doing to try to increase it, lengths and what the dr thinks!
My LP is 8 days with a 31 day cycle.
I am currently taking Agnus Castus and have had accupuncture for 2 months. I also use the CBFM.
This will be my 9th month TTC. I have had the 21 day blood test (which has to be done on 28), the day 3 blood test and an ultrascan. All tests are normal.
I'd love to join!
I'm somewhere from 26/29 days with a LP of 8/10
I had a second MCs about 8 months ago and then nothing since.
I'm thinking of giving it another couple of months (if patience prevails) and then going to the doctors for a check up.
We are trying for our first, it's been far more stressful than I ever expected.
Thanks for joining. I was worried I would be a billy no mates!
I'm sorry to hear about the MCs. Did the Drs know why they happened? I have read that a short LP can be linked to a higher risk of MC, but as I am sure you have found, the info on the web is very contradictory, particularly on how to lengthen it.
We are trying for our first as well, and I honestly had no idea it would be so difficult to get pregnant. I didn't realise how much had to be taken into consideration (e.g. timings of Ovulation, timings of how long it needs to stick).
I only really started getting broody at the beginning of the year. Before that i was very much career minded. Now, I find every month is more frustrating than the last, and more upsetting. I didn't think I would feel like this - or I guess, didn't realise it would actually take so long to conceive. I also find it is all I can think about, particularly as the weather is getting warmer and there are more mums taking their babies for walks!
Have you tried in the past, or are currently trying and lengthen the LP on your own?
I haven't really started trying too much things, but I was thinking about getting some B6 for next month.
I've only recently discovered my short LP due to finally buying the clearblue fertility monitor. I long for the days when we first started TTCing when it seemed so simple and gadget free.
We've been trying for 1 year and four months now and there are months where I just get so fed up of it all. I never dreamed that it would take this long.
Nice to meet you. It's nice to know I'm not the only one stressing about this. It just seems like one more horrible hurdle after another.
I have tried to cut down on my insistent googling of fertility things as I always come away more panicked than I started.
What day are you on your cycle now? I'm currently on day 24 (and hoping that it will be a longer cycle) as I only ovulated on day 21.
Oh bugger I just wrote a really long reply and for some reason it hasn't posted!
I will re-draft tomorrow but suffice to say I was saying HELLO, ME TOO, and look forward to chatting to you!
Count me in. I also am on the 6months+ threAd. I have a 10/11 day one. I know not disastrous but believe this is hampering efforts. Started last May for our first. Clockwork cycle with 28/29 days since I was 13. Got pregnant in second month of trying. M/c'd at 7 wks and now in cycle 10 since m/c. Cycles have gone down to 25/26 days which I don't comprehend. I think I have been trying long enough now to warrant a trip to the GP and so will go next week.
Will be keen to hear what all your GPs say. So much contradictory info out there. I have tried B6 and am going into 3rd month of expensive acupuncture but it hasn't extended by one day yet. So frustrating and depressing. Good to know I am not alone!
I'm in. My LP ranges from 8 to 11 days. I've been taking Vit B6 for a while now and it does seem to make things a bit better. For the most part it lengthens the phase to 10 to 11 days whereas without it they are 8 to 9 days, but one month with Vit B6 I had a 9 day phase, so I don't really know. I've been trying for almost a year now and had a 6 week m/c in September.
I went to see an NHS consultant a few months ago (for suspected adhesions on m/c ultrasound, which turned out to be nothing) and she said she'd heard of LPD but didn't really know if it was an issue. She did say I could try progesterone, but then said she thought I should try naturally for another six months. I wished I'd asked her for the cream then.
I've got an appointment with a private consultant the week after next, suggested by joycep, (waves to joycep - I seem to be mumsnet stalking you) and I'm going to talk to her about LP and also get the other tests done. I had a 21 day test over a year ago (my GP suggested it before we started ttc as I have polycystic ovaries, but not PCOS) and it came back normal, but I think it was probably taken too early, as I ovulate late in a pretty standard 28 day cycle and at the time I had no idea about lh surges etc.
My poor DH is going to get his test done this weekend and he's really dreading it.
OneDay Are the AC and accu working?
Ive been tracking for 3 month and my LP has been 11, 7 and I think this month will be 12 (waiting for AF), I seem to have a shorter phase and then a longer phase. We've been trying for 5 months, i'm 37 and so is OH. I'm just about to invest in a clear blue ov monitor and I temp www.fertilityfriend.com/home/332dc0.
Ive been taking Prenacare conception for about 6 months and OH takes the male version.
Nice to meet you all! xx
Nice to meet you all, you all seem so informed about LP and more.
I've been using the CBFM for 18mths on and off as had MC last Sept. Just started to re-use it but then read for the first time about LP, was totally unaware of it. My GP has never mentioned it (thinking about changing docs as she wont test me for anything as she shes I know I can get pregnant because already have been). I find it very confusing, has anyone got any tips on how I can start to find out what mine is??
Joycep my cycles were completely messed up after MC. i had nothing for about 3 months and the 3 periods in 6 weeks. GP said it was normal but ver frustrating still. Now I'm seeing a reflexogist and the day after my first course I had a period so I think there getting back on track (early days tho). Cycle is about 42 days, long but some site say can be normal?
I do want to start temp checking but also feel like giving up. I have no energy for bedroom business any more.
Hey greengrassy, that's great you have got an appt with Sarah! I will get one once I'm back from hols. Shame about the insurance. As you have poly ovaries you should be able to get referred for that rather than TTC. Anyhow I am sure I will have to pay as well. Let me know how you get on with her. She is suppose to be proactive.
It's odd I do feel my m/c has rendered me infertile but I hope i am imagining it .
Typical, weather has been lovely all week and today its not :-(
JulesAbs, today is day 17, and I am expecting to get highs on my CBFM from day 20 onwards. I feel that I spend most of the month waiting - waiting for my period to end, waiting for ovulation day, then waiting for period to come. The length between my period and OD is sooo long.
Hi MrsHY1, Joycep and Greenygrassy.
Joycep, have you seen any difference yet since starting the acupuncture? Where possible, I am having a session once a week. My period pattern is a week of heavy spotting, and then a week of period. This month, my week of spotting was much much less, while the period was heavier. I am hoping that soon (as it is very expensive), the spotting will stop and I will just get a week period. If there was no spotting, my LP would be about 14 days.
I am going to the Drs again next week to see if I can have something to encourage earlier ovulation - its a 10-13 day gap between the end of my period and O, so I'm keen to discuss what can be done. I strongly suspect that nothing can be done further until we reach the 12 month mark. I am slightly worried that the results of the acupuncture may be affected if the Dr prescribes anything, but I'll cross that bridge next week as I doubt the Dr will be able to do anything next week.
The 12 month mark does annoy me. Even though we have evidence of consistent findings, its always got to be 12 months of TTC first. Why? Its very unlikely that patterns are going to change on their own during this time, and I feel that it is such a waste of time. I read the other day that you only get 12 goes at conceiving a year - and when I read that, it brought me up short. A whole year of time spent on 12 days!!! I feel there's no hope!! LOL!!
Greenygrassy, I take 2 tablets of AC in the morning and evening. I don't know if it is that or the acupuncture that made the changes in my bleeding. I certainly haven't seen any difference in my LP yet, but this is my second month on the AC so maybe I will see an extra day or too this month in the LP. I didn't want to take Vit B6 yet on my own as I read that too much is very bad for you, and I couldn't find solid information to state how much is to be taken. What are you taking? How long did it take before you saw the extra day or two? Why did the nurse mention progesterone cream?
Hi Kerbea. We take those tablets too - DH is very good at reminding me if I haven't forgotten. I think he likes to feel he is helping! I think the CBFM is worth having; it makes me feel better to know that I am O, even if its the wrong time!
We also use ConceivePlus. I do sometimes think I should listen to people who say I am stressing too much about this, and that this isn't a military operation!!!
Hi Friendymonkey. The LP is the number of days between the day you ovulate and the first day of your next period. The average is 14 days, but this is average, as the LP can be shorter or longer. The longer the phase, the better as it gives the egg more time to embed. However, a shorter phase can still be enough time, so we shouldn't keep thinking that we "must have 14 days".
Phew! What a long post, but I am so happy that I have found some girls in the same boat as me.
Have a great weekend everyone!! xxx
Thanks onedaybaby, I better look more when I ovulate I think by taking temp as I dont think relying on the CBFM is enough.
Hello, you all seem to know a lot about this and I would really appreciate some information. My cycle is usually between 21 and 24 days but it's been exactly 22 for the last year and I seem to get my period 7 days after I ovulate. The gynaeocologist keeps telling me this is normal and nothing to do with why I haven't been able to get pregnant after trying for nearly two years, but I keep reading that a 7-day luteal phase is not normal and would make it more difficult to get pregnant.
I live in Madrid, and although I can speak Spanish fine, I find that it tends to be difficult to get busy (and normally impatient) doctors to listen and explain things to me. Every time I ask about anything they just basically go "it's normal, it's normal, your tests are fine, keep trying and if you're not pregnant in another three months we'll x-ray your uterus, which will hurt. Goodbye". I'm 34 and we've been getting tests and things done since last August.
Dzudzi - there is an awful lot of conflicting information out there. Some people say it's an issue, and some don't. I can't help feeling that even though pregnancy is possible because implantation can happen 5 days after ovulation, it doesn't make it easy because implantation can also happen as late as day 12.
Can you get a second opinion? I don't know the Spanish healthcare system at all but in your case it doesn't sound fun!
I really wish you good luck though. Stay in touch on this forum and we can all help each other! x
Hey onedaybaby. Tbh I don't think acupuncture has done anything yet. I was told I had an 80% chance of having a 12day LP after a few months. I have a session This wk and this will be my 3rdmonth and last month i went back down to 10 day lp. My periods were becoming very clotty (sorry tmi) and I noticed it was much better this one but they change from month to month so not sure if that is to do with acu. Clotty is bad so I prefer to clear that up. In that taking charge of fertility book, it sAys you dont count the days you spot but I understand why you want to clear it up. Let me know what your GP says. I refuse to wait the whole 12 months - I think once you get into your 30s you don't want to wait too long.
Hey dzudzi, I think you need to find a different gynae. My friend wAs told she couldn't get pregnant with a 7 day LP as in it is not enough time for implantation. As Mrshy says there is a lot of conflicting info but I am sure people have but I would think it is harder. Also, I have read that a cycle under 23/24 days should be looked at as well. As well as all the blood tests, have they checked the womb lining to check it is in phase etc etc?
Hello, thanks for the ideas. I'll try and find out if I can speak to a different gynaecologist. Whenever I ask for more information about anything they tend to treat me like I'm being a stupid foreigner who doesn't speak the language well enough rather than a normal person who isn't a doctor and wouldn't necessarily understand the medical speak in any language. Joycep, what is that about the womb lining? I've not heard about that before and no, I don't think they've checked it, they just did a blood test at the beginning of my period. Is there anything else they could be checking? The next test I have to get is the one where they check if your tubes are blocked but I don't see why they would be and I wish I could get them to at least explain how they know that my periods are "normal" first.
Thanks again x
Hey Dzudzi, sorry you're having difficulty. It's bad enough getting good treatment in one's own language so it sounds like you're having a nightmare. Have you only had a blood test at the beginning of your period - was that all normal? That tests LH and FSH. You should most certainly have a progesterone test as well, 7 days after ovulation. This may show something considering your period is coming 7 days after ovulation. You really need to be assertive about this - because I know i'm not a doctor but 7 day LP doesn't sound right and can probably be easily treated. You need to firstly know whether you're ovulating. If you are, then they need to find out why your period is coming so early. There can be several reasons for this and it may not just be down to one factor. This is oneo f the most useful articles I have found on Luteal Phase Defect. It explains everything pretty well.
The womb lining thing I was mentioning was an endometrial biopsy, it explains it in that article. But before this, they should also check your follicle size before ovulation. This is done by ultrasound.
If they're offering to check your tubes, you might as well get them checked to rule that out as a problem. You can then just start ruling things out. But that is a completely separate issue to LPD.
Thanks so much. Yes, my original test was all normal apparently. I thought I should be getting a progesterone test and I tried to be assertive but I ended up getting so nervous because I didn't know the stupid medical terminology in Spanish that I pretty much had a panic attack so the gynaecologist was like "you're clearly a nervous person, that's probably why you can't get pregnant" and I was like "I am NOT a nervous person, I am a person who's a bit nervous in THIS SITUATION, and if you had any kind of empathy you'd be able to understand why." And then when me and my man were referred to the sterility specialist it turned out to be the same bloody doctor. She was like "oh hello, you're the nervous one, less nervous today?" so I was just like "oh god, you're not even going to bother listening to anything I say now, you'll just think I'm being neurotic." And of course there wasn't any point in asking anything along the lines of "you know that thing you told me was normal before? Have you come across any ground-breaking new research in the meantime to challenge that opinion, or are you still going with normal?" and yet again I spent a week kicking myself for not getting the information I wanted and having to wait another three months for the next goddamn appointment. I don't know anyone who's been through this either here or in the UK, so I don't know what the procedures are and have no idea what information I can trust on the internet, so I'm feeling very lonely and afraid that I'm missing out on the chance to have something that might be very easy to fix fixed, and it's SOOOOOO BLOOOOODY FRUSTRAAAAAAATING!!! AAAAAAARGH!
So I really appreciate your help. Thank you x
I had a very short LP of 3-5 days and found the only way of getting things done was to play the system slightly. I knew I had a 32 day cycle so my day 21 test should have been on day 25 but I did as I was told and had it on day 21 it showed no ov. and I was referred to the fertility clinic at the hospital, when I spoke to the consultant and told him what was going on explained the CBFM results etc. He agreed my LP was too short to possibly conceive anything under 11 day he said may cause problems. I was prescribed Clomid to boost ovulation and make it happen earlier in the cycle. When I spoke to him he understood the LP issue but none of his registrars/House Officers knew what I was talking about and I had to explain to them about conception occuring but there not being sufficient hormone produced to prevent my period starting as it hadn't implanted and in a 11-14 day LP there is enough time for hormones to be produced and prevent a period starting resulting in a susccessful pregnancy. The clomid did increase my LP to 14 days.
It's good that they listened to you, every time I try asking the doctors here about stuff like that they just give me a withering look and tell me not to believe everything I read on the internet and make me feel like a idiot. I'm not an idiot, but to them I'll always be a foreigner and therefore probably a bit stupid, and the slightest suspicion that I might be coming across as an idiot makes me trip over my Spanish words and sound like I don't know anything and can't communicate. It's difficult to play the system when the system conspires to make you look like a fool.
I'm starting to think I might just have to visit a loan shark and go to a private gynaecologist who speaks English, which is quite annoying because my Spanish is actually pretty good. Also I suppose there's always the danger that my linguistic skills would desert me in that stressful situation too and I wouldn't even manage to explain to the loan shark that I would like to borrow some money please.
Dzudzi - I have heard from friends in Spain that the doctors over there are still very backwards in their thinking about fertility, pregnancy and childbirth. She struggled for years over there, came to London on a holiday and made an appointment with a fertilty specialist for whilst she was here and was relieved to hear she wasn't nuts or imagining things.
Dzudzi - is there anywhere you can get a recommendation for a gynae where you are living...perhaps one who can speak English as well? Perhaps post a message somewhere on MN to see if someone has used one? Your one sounds a bit hopeless to be honest or she is fobbing you off. But if you have been trying for 2 years, they should have done a progesterone test at least! So that's the next thing to get done. Depending on what those results are then you can go forward.
Yeah, I'll ask around, thanks. I heard that fertility treatment was meant to be pretty good here but it isn't turning out that way for me. How much time do you need to do stuff in the UK? I have a month off in the summer. Is it reeeeeally expensive?
Yes I thought fertility treatment in Spain was suppose to be good but then again i think that's more for IVF. I think once it gets to that point - you know you need a good place that does IVF with good results. Before that it seems to be a minefield of things to test for as there are numerous things that could be wrong - some of the issues could just require simple treatment but it's pot luck as to how good a gynae you get and their level of care and interest. It's the waiting times for everything that is so daunting as well.
I'm sure you could get preliminary blood tests done within the month - depending on where you are in your cycle but you should have done those by then. It takes time though it hink to track folicles and to find out what the issue is. Going private is expensive unfortunately. I am going to try and get a referral to someone private tomorrow and it's going to be 300 for one hour...god knows what it costs after this.
I think her problem was getting anyone to believe her in the first place once she had test results and a letter from the UK clinic she went on to have successful treatment in Spain.
Thanks! I feel like they don't believe me either, even though that sounds like a ridiculous thing to say, like they're all stupid and I'm the one with the medical knowledge.
blueberryboybaitonsafari (I hope I got that right!) - that's exactly why I want to get hold of Clomid as I strongly believe my short LP is caused by a crap corpeus luteum round the eggs I produce late (day 20-25). However, in the literature King's Hospital sent me, it says that "if you are ovulating you will not benefit from ovulation-inducing drugs like clomiphene" so I have an inkling I won't get any and will then have to pay for it privately.
Dzudzi, I do sympathise - I really do. Re costs - just to echo what Joycep says - it is pricey. I have had a good recommendation for a consultant who practices in Harley St who charges £200 for the first consultation. But I think it's all the follow-up investigations and follicle tracking that can boost up the costs...
I've been absent from the thread for a couple of days but I feel like I missed out on so much. I've been reading through and I want to start tackling or at least doing something positive next month. When AF rears its ugly head I am going to make myself a Dr's appointment.
I can't remember who said it but I hate the 12 month thing as well. It seems a number that they picked out of the air, I doubt most of them understand how frustrating and stressful all of this actually is.
I'm on day 30 and my period should arrive today - 10 days past ovulation this month. I am still hopeful it might not show up, I have been crampy since Monday but that isn't anything abnormal for me.
Anyone else just about at the end of their cycle?
I was reading online yesterday that even if I wanted to do a pregnancy test on the day of my period because I am only 10 DPO it could only be something like a 10 percent chance of it showing up positive.
I can't stop wishing my period won't arrive and some moments I wish it would just hurry up and show up so I can stop dwelling on it.
Hi Jules and all
I'm either 6 or 8 dpo today (had a weird up then down again thing on my chart) and last night started spotting. So usually this means AF isn't far behind. Sigh. It's hard to stay positive when you just feel like you're in a defective body!
Am having an acupuncture appointment today. Have contemplated knocking it on the head as it doesn't seem to have made any difference this month (this will be my 4th appointment) but promised myself I'd at least give it two cycles to see what it did, if anything.
Just waiting on my appointment at Kings as can't wait to get in there and beg for my Clomid. Have convinced myself this will be my holy grail so goodness knows what I'll be like if it doesn't make a difference! It doesn't really bear thinking about at this stage...x
Pleased to have found this thread. My LP used to be 10 days, and it took me about a year to get pregnant (had a m/c in between) with my first. Since my periods started after bf my cycles have been crazy - from 13 to 34 days - and my LP, when I have one, shortened down to 7 days. We've now been TTC #2 for 15 months, and I turn 41 on Friday.
I went to my gp after 6 months, because of my age, and she told me to wait for 12 months (!), so I went to a different gp in the same practice who referred me to the NHS fertility specialist. I've had a number of day 21 progesterones, which I dutifully booked for after I had ovulated, until I got wise and took it on the actual day 21, so of course I hadn't ovulated.
DH and I also went to a private fertility specialist, who didn't find anything overtly wrong (other than my age), so recommended IVF. Sigh.
But NHS specialist did HSG test, which came back as 'probably normal' (uh, thanks for that definitive report). The junior dr I saw the first time said to just keep trying as everything looked ok. I told her about the short LP, but she said I was probably wrong because the 'temperature method' of confirming ovulation was 'not generally accepted' (!!) I went back for the HSG results, and saw another junior dr who essentially wouldn't answer any questions as she said she didn't want to give me the wrong information (fair enough, I guess). She went to speak with the mysterious consultant who I have yet to see, and I asked her to mention my short LP again, and my age, not expecting any result at all. She came back with a prescription of Clomid! I could have cried. Have no idea why they prescribed it, but took it and ran!
So I'm now on CD7 on my first cycle with Clomid. We're holding off on the IVF for now, until we complete the 6-month course. I also use the CBFM and am on my second cycle with the DuoFertility monitor, so at least I don't drive my DH and myself insane taking my temp every morning.
I so desperately want this Clomid to work. DH said if my moods get too bad (they're generally pretty poor because I'm SO stressed out by TTC) he'll ask me to stop taking the Clomid, but I plan to lie through my teeth and keep taking it.
I am utterly heartbroken about my inability to conceive another child, and sometimes can't bring myself to meet up with my mummy friends from my first pregnancy who are now all on their second.
Apologies for this lengthy tome. Looking forward to chatting with you all.
Nice to 'meet' you. Sounds like you've had quite a journey to get your Clomid prescription! I think I'm learning from you and the other ladies on this thread to go through the motions - because if I keep just harping on about my short LP I probably won't really get any further!
I wish you all the best with your Clomid run - let me know how you get on. Are you being monitored or left to your own devices? And were you given a prescription for the whole six months in one go?
Sorry - just being nosey and trying to work out what's normal/usual!
MapleLeaf134 - The best advice I was ever given about clomid was to take it at night before bed. It gives you a hormone boost which causes the side effects if you can havethem in your sleep all the better! Clomid works by boosting your ovulation causing you to ovulate earlier than waiting for your body to reach the same hormone levels. You must be monitored on clomid - are you having monthly day 21 tests? or scans? The minimum you should accept is monthly bloods or they will never know if it is actually making you ov or not and adjust you dose accordingly. I started on 50mg it didn't work so they upped it to 100mg. If nothing has been done through your clinic then tell the GP you need the tests monthly and you can then ring the consultant with the results and check your dose is correct.
MrsHY1 - I am being monitored, kind of. I have to have a day 21 test, then ring the clinic for the result, then have a day 28 test if I haven't ovulated. They said they'd do 2 cycles on 50 mg, and then reassess. They gave me a box of 30 tablets, so we'll see how far that gets me!
blueberry...Safari (sorry, being lazy) - thanks for that advice. Too late for this cycle, but I'll try that for the next one (see how 'optimistic' I'm being?). I wish I was having scans, but at least the blood tests are something. After all the money we've spent on the CBFM and ridiculously expensive sticks, private consultations and now the DuoFertility monitor, for a £7 box of pills to do the trick would be hilarious (and marvellous!).
Hello, Hopefully starting to use my CBFM tomorrow... so hopefully will find out if my lutual phase is really short or I ov before I think I do...
Good morning all,
Maple- I really hope Clomid works for you and I am going to make a doctors appointment soon to maybe consider going down that or some other sort of route myself.
Karbea - good luck with the monitor.
I'm on day 31 - 11 DPO The longest cycle I have had in months. Over the last 8 months I am usually 26 or 27 days. I did a pregnancy test this morning and nothing, A BFN.
I am just so sick of being disappointed time after time, I really thought that I might have been in with a chance this morning. - Sorry for the moan, I am feeling sorry for myself today.
I hope everyone is having a better morning.
I would feel just like you... as my LP is only 9/10 days if I got to 11 I'd be certain I was PG - but remember = 11 dpo is still early and a BFP probably won't show up yet! Just because we have shorter LPs, I still think you need to be a certain number of dpo (usually) to have the hormones show up on a HPT.
If you haven't got your period yet then you're still in with a shout.
But I KNOW how you feel about the crushing disappointment each month... really I do.
Try and look on the bright side - that's a nearly normal LP - even if AF comes that's a great step in the right direction, no?
MrsHY1 - Thank you and you are right 11 dpo is a great sign. I was just feeling a bit down, I've had a cup of coffee and I am now in a much better place. I'm trying to be quietly optimistic.
I did read somewhere that on average people don't get a positive until 13 dpo.
Thanks for the reply and understanding. All this TTC is just so tiring.
Hey JulesAbs - hang on in there. If you're 11DPO today and you've normally got your period by now that's a good sign that things are going in the right direction. When I got my only positive which seems so long ago now, I tested on 13dpo and it was negative, it didn't come up positive until about 17DPo. I tthink it just depends. Cross fingers AF doesn't show. I haven't got to 12DPO since my m/c 9 months ago so if I got there, i would be almost certain i was pregnant.
I spoke to my GP about my 10/11 LP yesterday and she just shrugged her shoulders. I don't understand...why is that a top New York fertility doctor has written on his blog about LP and if people know that they are getting their period 11 dpo or less then he said they should be treated accordingly. It seems that a strong, long luteal phase is desirable as short ones can mean harder to get pregnant and more chance of m/c so why can't it be treated?? it 's really infruriating...sorry for the rant!
Thanks, Jules. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you! I agree that you should remain cautiously optimistic . Apparently, 18 days of high temps is confirmatory, but I don't know who, especially those of us with short LPs, could wait that long!
joycep - I find that GPs in general (and I'm sure there are some exceptions) follow their NHS guidelines, which are slow to be updated, and they resist thinking out of the box. One of the GPs in my practice was like this, but was willing to do what I asked her, even if just to humour me. I say 'was' because she has now retired! Back to the drawing board.
However, even saying that, the private specialist we saw didn't seem to care about my short LP either. In fact, I have this huge wad of papers detailing every cycle I've had over the past 15 months, and I have not been able to get a single person to look at them. Not one. Even my husband tried with the private guy because he knew how upset I'd be, but to no avail. It's so frustrating . There, that's my rant for the day as well.
I can't believe how this thread has taken off!
I went to the Drs yesterday and he has referred me to see a gyno who I will see next week. I think he agreed with me that there wasn't enough time between ovulation and my spotting/period. He is referring me to the gyno to see if they can do anything to stop the spotting.
Interestingly, he said that it is very difficult to get an appointment with the NHS fertility clinic, and they will do everything they can to not see you. So I asked the Dr what he could do, and he said that he could prescribe Clomid if the Gyno agreed. I am just hoping that the gyno sees my short LP as a genuine problem.
I created a spreadsheet with the following fields to highlight the short LP. The Dr said it was very useful as he could see that there was a trend.
No of days bleed
CBFM Peak Cycle Day (ovulation)
No of days betwen ovulation and next bleed (luteal phase)
I've been reading that reflexology success thread and I'm thinking that I may try alternating accupuncture and reflexology on a weekly basis.
Joycep, what is the blog you are referring to?
Onedaybaby - your GP sounds great! Out of interest can you take clomid if you are ovulating?
Here is that blog - there are two other pages somewhere he has written on LPD.
Joycep - yes you can, it just boosts ovulation and makes it happen earlier in the cycle but it does increase you twins risk considerably.
Joycep - thanks for the link for the blog I spent my entire coffee break reading bits from it.
AF still hasn't shown it's head for me, which puts me at 12 dpo - I haven't tested today, but if it hasn't arrived I will test tomorrow. Even still I am excited to see 12 dpo.
I'm still trying not to get overly excited, but I can't help feeling hopeful.
How's everyone's morning going?
Onedaybaby - What a great idea keeping an excel, I am going to copy that I have all the info but it's just unceremoniously scribbled in my diary.
Jules - i'm really crossing fingers for you, I'm getting excited for you!. Is this the first time you have seen 12dpo since your m/c? Am I right in thinking you have had 2 m/cs?
Oneday - great idea to put the figures down so they can see. I'm going to steal that idea for my next visit!
Joycep, I have only been tracking for the last 6 months, it's eight months since my last miscarriage (sadly I have had 2), but the closest I have gotten is 10 days. I keep getting nervous every time I have to go to the bathroom just in case AF has finally showed up.
Hello! I found this thread as thinking about TTC no. 2, and thought I would let you know my short LP story, and subsequent successful pregnancy to hopefully give you all some encouragement.
I came off the pill, and through charting and OPKs discovered I had an LP of about 9 days. I took Agnus Castus & B100 Complex, and Red Raspberry Leaf for a couple of months, but my LP didn't increase. I then read somewhere that Dong Quai could also be useful, so I started taking that too, and that month I became PG. I don't know if it helped, or if my 9 day LP was actually enough to get PG, but something worked! Dong Quai helps balance hormones and also helps implantation, so maybe it did something.
Since charting again I have discovered I have a 9 day LP again. I have been taking a cocktail of B100 Complex, Agnus Castus & Dong Quai again, and this month my LP increased to 13 days! Am hoping the same will happen again next month.
If you have any questions, let me know - I'm more than happy to help.
Thanks for sharing your story! Do you mind me asking whether you went back on the pill between your children? Reason I ask is that a lot of ladies' luteal phases seem to adjust from short to normal after a few months of being off the pill - whereas I've not been on the pill for over 10 years so think I'm stuck with mine!
I guess I'm just wondering how much the agnus castus/B vits/dong quai played a role and how much was your body just re-adjusting to normal. We'll never know though I guess!
Very best of luck with TTC number 2!
Hi MrsHY1! No I didn't go back on the pill - I wanted to see what my body was doing. I BFd for 9 months though and didn't get periods until then - it's been about 6 months now. It may just have been my body readjusting, and it may just be naturally readjusting again now, but I have always had short cycles, even before I went on the pill, and only discovered I was ovulating late when TTC number 1. I hope you're not stuck with yours! I suppose you've tried everything?
Have been in follicular phase and trying to focus on non ttc stuff for a bit, but I went to the private consultant recommended by Joycep today and thought I would let you guys know what she said, along with my symptoms, as I know many of you have similar patterns.
She said I may have a slight hormone imbalance which would make it harder to get preggers, and might increase miscarriage risk. She came to this conclusion for the following reasons (as far as I can tell):
I have been pregnant but miscarried around 6 weeks
Have been trying for 11 months
Late lh surge around day 15
Spotting for days before AF
Luteal phase from ovulation to spotting between 7 to 11 days, luteal phase from ovulation to first day of full AF 10 to 14 days
My womb looks fine
No reason to think there is a problem with my tubes
Plan of action for now:
Progesterone to help support luteal phase this month
Clomid or similar next month to help with hormones and bring ovulation forward
Will be going for another ultrasound on Thursday and for blood tests soon.
PS She said Vit B makes nooooo difference to LP. She has done research on it! She told me and hubby to take a multivitamin and said she didn't think acupuncture would be useful for me. She only said that after the ultrasound, and am not sure why she decided against it, as she said she might be recommending it before the ultrasound.
Joycep She was lovely. Thank you so much for the recommendation. I had told my GP and the NHS consultant all the same things, but for the first time today I felt like someone was really sitting down and looking at the whole picture and trying to help me find out what was going on. We will be redoing the blood tests, because, as I suspected, my GP did the fsh/lh tests at the wrong time of the month. (It is going to be super expensive though - I'm down £850 already, and will probably have got through £1500 by the end of the month. So do try to get your insurance to cover it if you can.)
Mary Thanks for the encouragement!
Mapleleaf MrsHY1 I never thought Clomid or something similar would be recommended for me, as I do ovulate, but as blueberry said it can help to make you ovulate earlier, and if we were to ovulate earlier, then our LPs would be longer. Yay!
onedaybaby If they offer you progesterone - take it! I was offered it months ago on the NHS, but then the consultant said 'why don't you try on your own for another six months' and I foolishly agreed.
Hi Greengrassy, thank you so much for coming back with such helpful feedback and am so pleased that she has given you such helpful advice. She does sound proactive and the fact she recognises a hormone imbalance is a breath of fresh air rather people fobbing you off. Apart from the spotting, our situations sound very similar. How interesting she wants to give you progesterone which is hardly ever prescribed on the NHS unless you have had multiple m/cs. What form are you getting it in? And interesting that she didn't advise acupuncture either - this has not helped me in extending my LP nor have B vits.
Out of interest - what is costing so much? I know the initial cost is £300 but the price seems to have trebbled....!
I went to my GP last week and she is giving me buckets of blood tests. I know she is testing me for LH/FSH on the wrong day (day 13) - she didn't even mention a specific day to be tested. I have a scan next week at St Mary's and once that is done, I'm going to go back to her. I'm bascially banging on about my periods being different to what they use to be after m/c, in the hope that I can get referred to Sarah for this issue rather than TTC which insurance wouldn't cover. I'm not sure this is going to work though but I thought I would give it a whirl and now especially after seeing what you're paying.arrgh!
It just shows the difference though if you pay!
Well, I had my scan and blood tests at hospital this morning! I saw a doctor for my scan - she was brilliant. She said I have a 'beautiful uterus' (!) and that my tubes and uterus lining all look OK. They can't tell for certain from a scan that there's nothing wrong with my tubes, but there was no liquid in them, which is apparently a good sign.
As suspected (and I knew this from my last scan 5 yrs ago), I have polycystic ovaries - but only 13-14 cysts on each ovary which apparently isn't bad (although it sounds horrendous!) which is why they feel I am ovulating each month, albeit rather late in my cycle.
I told the doc about how I ovulate late and get my period fairly soon after, inc spotting, and she proactively used the term 'luteal phase deficiency.' So it looks like they take it seriously which is good. NB she didn't seem overly concerned about the spotting - more that my overall LP length (inc spotting) is 9 days.
I now have a follow-up appt booked to see the consultant gynae 2 weeks tomorrow, to discuss treatment. The doc who did the scan told me there's a good chance I'll be offered Clomid, but due to my 'healthy ovaries' (albeit cysty ones!) they would be a little worried about over-stimulation and/or multiple pregnancy.
So, between now and 19th, I'm going to research my head off about Clomid so that I can ask the doc lots of questions and know what I'm talking about! The doc who did my scan said that I'll also be put on the list for IVF. That's a little scary so I'm not thinking too much about that yet - I'm hoping nature or Clomid will do the trick first!
Joy Great that you're getting somewhere too and your plan sounds like a good one. I reckon you will get referred and it'll be interesting to see how far you can take it. I was thinking about going back to my GP and getting referred to her for investigations for adhesions (which were suspected by a sonographer who had no idea what she was doing) and weird mid-cycle pains which I think my insurance would have covered, but then I felt like I really wanted someone to look at the whole picture and for someone to do all the fertility tests (ovarian reserve, fsh/lh, progesterone and DH) as I haven't had them done properly before. As you've already had those done at the clinic, and have narrowed down the issue you want her to sort out, it'll probably work really well.
I'll let you know about the progesterone when I've seen her again on Thursday.
Also, she was really conscious of ensuring that I don't have another m/c, which I found reassuring as she's clearly thinking about the whole picture.
I've just realised totting it up for you that I need to look into the £850 figure that her secretary told me I owe today, as so far I think I've (only!) racked up £300 for the consultation, £175 for the ultrasound (thought this would be part of the consultation fee but it isn't) and £175 for hubby's test. So that's £200 short. She said the Thursday ultrasound would be a further £175 and the blood tests would be another £400. I'll let you know on Thursday when I actually pay.
It really does show a huge difference, because, actually my GP was really nice, but clueless, and the NHS consultant was nice, but unwilling to engage with my cycle. I'm really happy I went and DH and I think it's worth the money - for now!
MrsHY1 Great that you're making progress. We seem to have had a similar day today. Maybe we will be Clomid buddies! I've been googling and have been worried by OHSS and multiples too (though after a year of this I'm starting to think that twins would be lovely).
greengrassy - it's a real conundrum isn't it - I know the statistics about multiples - the complications, how the uterus is designed for one baby at a time etc - but I can't say that it would be bad news if I had twins.
Sounds like you've having a really positive experience with your investigations too...
Interesting what she said about B6 - am still taking a B complex along with my multi vit (as I figured it couldn't do harm) but dropped my B6 high-strength dose ages ago - because my lp that cycle was exactly the same, but ovulation was delayed by 5 days! It could have been a quirk, or it could have been the agnus castus I was taking (also now ditched!) but I didn't want to take the risk of another long cycle.
Yep, hopefully Clomid will be the answer... I really hope so!
Goodness thanks very much Greengrassy, it does mount up doesn't it. I think it may be wishful thinking that i can get this covered and certainly if I need to be put on to progesterone etc, it's not going to fly! I should probably just go straight to Sarah and stop dithering about it. Let me know about your next appt.
MrsHY1 - I'm pleased you have made progress yesterday and that they recognise a short luteal phase. I don't dare touch agnus cactus, I have heard too many stories about it messing up cycles.
I find it interesting that Clomid is being mentioned for both of you even though you ovulate. I guess they have to monitor you very carefully. I wonder whether we just all have lazy ovaries and they need a bit of incentive to move a bit quicker!
According to my cbfm i haven't ov'd yet which makes me think that I must have a short lutual phase which i've suspected for a while.
what vitamins etc are you taking to increase yours? Is it Agnus Castus? anything else?
Karbea - I've tried B6 (100mg) but didn't work. As Greengrassy mentioned above, her gynae has researched it and has found it doesn't lengthen LP although some people on here have said it worked for them so you could try it. As far as i know you have to be a bit careful with Agnus, it can mess around with cycles. Again though it has worked for some people.
How long is yours?
My chart is here
I think it averages out at 10 days, but can be 7... I seem to have one longer cycle and then a shorter one, I wonder if I don't ov every other one, but my temps don't suggest that
Hey Karbea - Your March 01 and your Jan chart look like 11day LPs but your Feb one says 7 but by temps alone I think it looks like you ovulated 2 days earlier giving you a 9 day lp...obviously i can't see whether use OPKs to suggest otherwise! Apart from the short LP, your March one looked like a good graph. Your temps in your Feb one didn't go that far above the coverline though...but I'm never sure how far above they're suppose to go to suggest adequate progesterone production...
How long have you been trying?
Joycep Hello this is cycle 6 for us.
Part of the reason for buying the CBFM was to see if I ov at all every other month - I do wonder if I didn't in Feb (lower temps).
I've been a bit lazy with temping this month as I thought the CBFM was definitive but someone in that group said it was just an indication so i think i need to look at that plus CBFM - Ooo gawd why is it soooo complicated! I feel like a bloody chemistry experiment in the mornings!
What qualifies as a short LP then?
I'm really interested to see what happens this month...
How long have you been trying?
Yes I know tha feeling. I am so bored of popping pills and potions and taking temps and peeing on sticks and counting days!
We started trying in May last year so nearly a year. I had an early m/c in July and am now in cycle 10 since then.
Many places say 12-14 days is normal. That's 12 days of elevated temps before AF. 10-11 days potentially can be a problem and many gynaes will acknowledge that under 10 is not great. Of course there are always people out there who will have got pregnant on shorter LPs but it can make things more difficult. Implantation can take up to 12 days and I think I read that the average takes 9.2 days...god knows where they would have found that out! But you can see from this that a longer LP is highly desirable...if an egg did happen to get fertilised, my womb lining would have started to disintegrate by the time of 9.2 days.
But I think it's important to get to the bottom of what is causing the short LP, it could be several factors but getting medical people to acknowledge a shortish LP in the first place is a bit hit and miss!
I am soooooo disappointed. I went to the gyno today and he has said everything is normal. Unfortunately, he did not agree with the theory of a luteal phase defect. He said that 9 months wasn't a long time, I was young (28) and although I may have a tendency towards PCOS, my results suggest that everything is fine, and that I am to stop worrying and keep trying. DH is to have a sperm test just to make sure everything is healthy, but at the moment, I am to just carry on and "forget about it".
I wonder what would have happened if he did agree with a luteal phase defect...
He didn't think up to to 14 days bleeding was anything to worry about either. I'm glad the insurance paid this time, as I feel it was a waste of time, and I am no further forward.
I certainly don't want to be told something is wrong, but I would have liked something to speed up the process!
Hi Karbea, I am taking agnus castus. I am going to take it until I have run out but I haven't seen any changes yet. I am also going to do acupuncture for one more month, and then knock that on the head if nothing changes as it is expensive.
Joycep, how did you get on this month? You were very excited at the beginning of the weekend.
Sorry Joycep, that question was aimed a JulesAbs! But how you doing anyway?! xxx
OK - so I read something really interesting in Toni Weshler's 'Taking Charge of Your Fertility' last night which I thought I would share - this book seems to have become a bit of an institution for women TTC everywhere...
In a section about BBT charting (basically the core premise of the book) there is guidance on what to do if you don't have 10 or more high temps above cover line and before AF comes. I only ever get 9-10.
She offers the advice that this could be a)luteal phase defect, or b) that the woman in question is a late responder to the progesterone released by the body in response to ovulation - apparently some woman can take 4-5 days to see a temp shift. So, 10 + 4 would equal a much healthier 14 days. Who knew? When I got my kit from Boots it was fairly specific that temp rise is usually seen 24-36 hours after O.
I know a lot of you OPK anyway rather than rely on charting - but this might be useful for those of you who don't. She advises that your 'peak' day of EWCM production should be the main marker of O in this case. Bit difficult when you might not always get that much!
Anyway, sadly I think I'm still stuck with a LPD as in the one month I used OPKs (I soon gave them up as I was sick and tired of seeing negatives...until I did get my positive on day flipping 24) I'm fairly sure the temp shift correlated with the positive OPK - but I might try OPKs again this month just to be sure.
Hope that's helpful to someone! MrsHY1x
Thanks MrsHY - I had read that as well. I was hoping this was me but since combining charting with OPKs, it all corresponds nicely. The only thing that doesn't is my EWCM which doesn't seem to dry up after the temp rise, it is there for a couple or more days. NOt sure what that means.
My EWCM is always at its peak maybe one or two days before my cbfm has its peak. So is the book saying I'm actually ovulating then? I think next month I might not dothe cbfm and conentrate on bd every other day or something.
onedaybaby - you could be!
My plan for this month is to start to bd every other day from the first day I notice something even vaguely resembling EWCM - and if I get a lot of it (I don't every cycle, but sometimes I do) then bd on that day as well. Maybe twice!
How did you get on with your next appt Greengrassy? I'm seeing her next week. Hoping she can be as helpful with me as you.
Hope everyone else is getting on ok.
Hi Joycep It went well. She told me not to worry about my ovaries any more - they are her concern now!
Last Thursday the ultrasound showed that I'd just ovulated, but she gave me an hcg shot anyway to try to extend the luteal phase. I'm 9dpo so we'll see. She decided against progesterone suppositories this month because apparently they are unpleasant. She's given me Clomid to start on day 2 next month if I'm not pg.
The extra expense was £360(!) for a full screening for DH, £175 each for 2 ultrasounds, and another £300 for hcg, Clomid and my day 2 tests for next month.
Let me know how you get on next week.
How's everyone else doing?
Can I join you ladies? I haven't been trying for long (5 months) and used opks for the first time in month 4. When I noticed that I started spotting at just 7dpo (af arrived 9dpo) I went to see the doctor. She sent me for a day 21 test in cycle 5. Day 21 turned out to be 4dpo. This cycle I started spotting 11dpo based on opk sticks again (af not started yet) so I thought it was better but blood test results were only 13.6. Doc says I my not have ovulated or that the egg/follicle hadn't matured properly. She is now sending me to the gynae.
Very sad about this and a bit clueless about everything to be honest. Do you think they will give me progesterone to make my test results higher? What does clomid do?
Welcome! But sorry to hear about your concerns, of course. I think that progesterone can be given to extend the luteal phase. But Clomid can also be used to balance things out. I ovulate late (day 20-25) and get AF 9 days later (with spotting 4 days before that) so am hoping I can try Clomid to ovulate much nearer day 14 (but I'll settle for anything up to day 20!) with a longer luteal phase afterwards. I'm seeing the specialist on Tuesday so I'll let you know how I get on. Hopefully your gyane will also have some more answers for you x
Thanks for the welcome I'm a little confused actually, today is 13dpo and af not started properly yet (this is third day of spotting). I am positive I did ovulate last month, I think the blood test was taken on the wrong day and though I might not have reached 30, I think I would have been much nearer that total.
What I don't understand is how I had a 9 day luteal phase last month and (at least) a 13 day luteal phase this month. I thought the luteal phase has to stay pretty much the same?
Greengrassy, that's good. She sounds really helpful and quite reassuring to know that she is looking after your ovaries. Has it given you confidence? I hope she can help plus give me a boost of reassurance as well. I will let you know how I get on. I phoned my insurance today - no chance of getting this on insurance. I was skirting around the issue and they just said, 'are you trying for a baby?'. I could hardly lie! Thanks for prepping me on the costs-if it works, I don't care but when there are no guarantees , it's a lot of cash!
Cloclo - luteal phases are normally the same every month, bar 1 or 2 days. However, some people ovulate every other month and so it could differ and if you are just using OPKs to tell you when you ovulate, these can be very inaccurate as you can get more than one LH surge. You should take your temps alongside opks to get a more accurate picture.
MrsHY1 - I hope your appt goes ok tomorrow. Let us know!
Welcome cloclo. I have similar cycles to you, sometimes longer sometimes shorter, always with spotting. The consultant I'm seeing told me that spotting was a problem, especially when it lasts a few days.
Mrs HY1 When are you starting the Clomid? I'm starting this week right after AF gets me.
joy Looking forward to hearing how it goes. Insurance asked me the same, and I also decided there was no point in pretending. Will defo be worth it if it helps.
I'm on 12dpo which is quite exciting for me! I've taken some internet cheapies and looked at them in soft light, in hard daylight, forwards, and backwards, and occasionally I imagine a line (I think I want it so much I'm actually seeing things), but actually they are white as snow, so I'm going to give myself a biscuit.
Right - well, I had my appointment with the consultant this morning. The good news is that my blood work was normal - showing I had normal levels of FSH and LH. Which is great, because I can remember when the levels were all over the shop when I was first diagnosed with PCOS - seems like the metformin I've been taking this past five years has corrected things!
The bad news is that this makes my case less straightforward - because even though I ovulate late - I am ovulating - so it would be against hospital protocol to give me Clomid. When challenged about my spotting and short luteal phase, he really didn't think it was a big deal and said there was no conclusive evidence that short lp hampers the chances of fertility. He's actually right there - but I pointed out that there's no evidence to say it DOESN'T hamper the chances either!
Anyway - I had been prepared for this so had taken in with me print-outs of medical abstracts of studies that have shown Clomid's effectiveness in extending lp and resulting in successful pregnancy. Where we got to was that he's happy to give me Clomid provided we pay for the first month of ultrasounds (about £250), provided the gynae agrees. He seems to think that this is a formality so I signed all the consent forms there and then - I really hope so.
He's hoping to talk to the gynae this week or early next, then will write out my prescription and post it to me. I really hope the gynae says yes!
Greengrassy - Best of luck to you, let me know how you get on! xx
And I had my appointment earlier. Greengrassy, she is great isn't she? So proactive. She just sat there shaking her head hwen I was told that everything is normal. She said, I can see straightaway that it's all normal.
I have pretty straight forward periods, no spotting but I said to her my LP is 10/11 days. She said that IS a problem and is definitely too short. Although they often put m/c's down to an abnormality - a short LP could easily have been the reason. She said it just needs to be tweaked a little bit and is easy to sort out.
I showed her my results from my blood test on the NHS last week where I was told all was normal at 30n/ml for progesterone. She said 30 is too low - she likes to see above 40.
So, I'm getting an HSG tube thing done tomorrow. Her reason for this was just to check i didn't have one tube blocked or sth. I'm going back next week for a scan where she'll give me something to induce ovulation..a bit of clomid which she said was absolutely fine even though I'm ovulating. I'm going to be given progesterone suppostories to lengthen the luteal phase as well.
MrsHY - it's interesting what your guy was saying to you about not thinking it was a big deal. It seems to be the running theme. But well done for challenging.
I must say I'm quite surprised that I am being put on clomid and all these other things. Not looking forward to this tubal thing but let's hope we can all finally get our LPs sorted!
Greengrassy - I hope AF hasn't got you.
Oh this is so frustrating! I don't understand why my guy said an LP of 8 days and a week of spotting was ok while yours agree there's issues at 10/11 days!! (See earlier post on this thread) I guess I will have to wait for the 12 month mark before I can start speaking to some fertility experts.
Onedaybaby - join the club love! My specialist may be erring towards giving me Clomid but that's only because it is also used in cases of 'unexplained fertility' and I sort of bullied him into it... he didn't think my short luteal phase (which looks remarkably like yours although I may squeeze an extra day and make it up to 9 if you don't count a day of heavier spotting...which I don't (!) was a problem.
I think the thing to remember is that they don't KNOW it's a problem. There is a school of thought suggesting that lpd is a condition that private specialists like to believe in (i.e. they weigh up the evidence and come down on the side of it being a problem) because then they can treat it with drugs and ultrasounds, both of which cost money. BTW I'm in NO WAY saying that private specialists are solely driven by money - far from it - perhaps they know something that the NHS don't. However, all the medical evidence points towards ovulation being the most important part of the jigsaw. So each month I tell myself that I've got this on my side. Perhaps do the same and see if you feel better.
PS - you can guaruntee that next time I get my period 8 days after I ovulate I'll be banging on about how LPD is DEFINITELY the reason I'm not up the duff and will tell you to completely ignore all of the above! I've never been the best at following my own advice x
I don't understand why they don't think 8 days is a problem oneday. I have spoken to 4 or 5 different people over the last 8 months about my LP. One consultant said it was a problem and his colleague said it wasn't. This gynae is the first person to say it is sub optimal, it needs tweaking. MrsHY is right, there will definitely be a money factor behind these private specialists. I'm not convinced i really need an HSG for example considering I've got pregnant before but then I think there is a money issue with the nhs as well which is preventing you getting the right treatment because this isn't a life threatening matter.
Ovulation is obviously key in getting pregnant but if you're ovulating and your period is coming 8 days later, surely that must flag up to a specialist that something is out of phase. I think everything I have read about LP has always said that under 10 days LP should be investigated. 10/11 days is a bit iffy. If implantation takes 9 days on average but you get your period before this, then chances of getting pregnant must be reduced. However, there are always going to be the exceptions as some people on MN have proved.
My whole thinking for me is that I don't think it's normal to be in cycle 11 after a m/c and for nothing to have happened. If my DH is normal and I'm supposedly normal and for our ages, then on the rules of probability it should have happened which tells me there is something that is slightly skewed.
It is frustrating isn't it! As you have all said I think that no-one is sure one way or the other, and the money factor works both ways. I was thinking the other day that the private consultant joycep and I are seeing is sitting on a goldmine of desperate women. Having said that I saw an NHS consultant a few months ago, who did consider giving me progesterone to lengthen my luteal phase. She did add that she had no idea whether it would make a difference to fertility though. It seems to me that you can get pregnant with a short luteal phase, if you happen to have early implantation one month, but that it's likely to take longer (as we've noticed) because you have to wait for that early implantation month.
joy I'm so happy she was helpful and nice. It sounds like you're getting exactly the same treatment as me. I already had the hcg shot (though I had ovulated, so it was more for LP than to induce ovulation), and I'll be starting on Clomid and getting the HSG.
I'm 14 dpo with no sign of AF or spotting! I think this must be due to the hcg shot I was given after I ovulated. I didn't do anything else that was different , and I've never got this far before. Unfortunately though all tests have been BFN, and now I am feeling the familiar drag. Still, it's nice to get to 14 dpo.
joy Just realised you must be getting the HSG today - good luck. Hope it goes well.
hey greengrassy - did AF show up? I hope not. If i got to 14dpo, I would be convincing myself i was pregnant.
HSG was fine, it was very quick as had no blockages. I guess it's one thing to rule out. I go back tomorrow for a scan and i'm not quite sure what she's going to give me next...clomid i think!
Hello, how is everyone?
I'm cd37 today and was all excited because I thought I o'ed on cd 23 and never get past 8-9 days and much past 5 without spotting - but did a test this morning and BFN. I actually got a load of EWCM last night so think this cycle is a massively late one, ovulation wise, or perhaps it'll be anovulatory.
Anyway, the gynae at Kings has approved me for Clomid for three cycles at first and then we'll review - so not all bad news! They're due to arrive with me (they get sent direct from the drugs company - have never heard of that before) on Tuesday afternoon. Have to wait for AF to come and then take them cd2-6 and then go in for an ultrasound on cd10 to check I'm not hyper-responding. Also have to do OPKs day 10-20.
So wish me luck girls. I'll let you know how I get on. Greengrassy - we may end up being Clomid buddies! xx
Durrr, sorry, I meant joycep we might be Clomid buddies! Sorry greengrassy!
My LP seems to have gone from 11 days to 12 after my first month of acupunture. Legnthening the second part of the cycle was one of the things she was aiming to do. It'll be interesting to see if it stays that way and is not just a fluke.
Ooh that is interesting eurochick. Hope it stays that way for you. I've decided to knock my acupuncture, Chinese herbs and all the other vits I've been taking on the head- apart from my prenatal multivit. I'm just not convinced anything has had an effect- and judging from my current very ling, anovulatory cycle I might even have made things worse!
That's great you have been approved Mrshy. I hope you get a bfp though from this cycle. I will be starting in just over a week I guess. I have to test on Friday and if bfn I will stop my progesterone and wait for AF. Actually not looking forward to clomid. I think extra progesterone has made me moody and very emotional so god knows what I will be like on clomid!
Eurochick - glad acupuncture working for you. Mine never managed to extend my LP.
Hi Ladies, Af did get me last month (on 15dpo - at least LP was better), so I took Clomid on days 2-6. I took it at night, due to advice that doing it like that doesn't make you so crazy. It was fine, and I didn't even notice it. Sooo, last wednesday I had an ultrasound, and I had two ripe eggs, one in each ovary! The right was bigger than the left.
MrsHY1 joycep we can all be clomid buddies, unless you girls get lucky this month. Fingers crossed.
It's early days but seems promising. I also had a 3 day LH surge rather than my usual one dayer, so it seems to be doing something. I just hope it is helpful!
That's fab greengrassy, and thanks for the tip about taking it at night! That's fab that you've got two eggs! Does that mean that both will definitely be released? And if so does that mean twins?!?
I just hope I don't hyper-respond - if I do and I've got more than 4 follicles when I have the ultrasound they'll cancel the cycle and cancel the Clomid.
I'm so negative - I need to be more positive!!
Sorry AF got you greengrassy. I'm 100% positive I'm not pregant this month. Cross fingers for this month for you.. Out of interest, what day did you have to go in for the scan and did you get an HSG injection to encourage ovulation? I guess clomid has just brought ovulation forward for you then..? I'm not quite clear what it actually does.
MrsHY - I find it's so easy to be negative with this. I'm sure you won't hyper respond if you start on a low dose. I thought it was quite safe stuff.
Gals, I asked the consultant about hyper-stimulation before I started and she said that on such a low dosage, there's no way it would happen. I'm on 50mg. Still I was a little worried too. It is easy to be negative before you start, but don't be, it really is fine.
I don't know if both eggs will have released, but I've been imagining the triumphant conception of twins all week!
I went for the scan on day 10 and she gave me the HCG on that day and said I would ovulate the next day or the day after that at the latest, but she said that my follicles actually looked more like day 12 follicles. (This is prob because I still spotted before AF and started the clomid after the spotting, so prob was day 12.)
I'm not really sure what the point is either! She said that the womb lining might not be synched with ovulation, hence the lpd, and the clomid would help with that.
Any good news from you MrsHY1 or joy?
Fingers crossed for your twin conception! Interesting point about HCG jab - I think in my blurb from Kings it says that if I don't end up ovulating with the Clomid alone they support it with HCG. But I hopefully should O, given I do usually - it's just ever so late and then I have the LPD on top.
I'm keen to start my Clomid but am still in the longest cycle I can remember! Day 42 today. Will probably test tomorrow because if i still don't have AF by early next week I might go to the GP for Provera so I can start the Clomid. 99.9% sure it'll come up negative though. But a girl can wish!! x
MrsHY1 Day 42 - wow - that is quite some cycle. How did the testing go today?
Hi greengrassy - thanks for the info. AF got me today so I will start the clomid on Sunday eve. I knew nothing had happened this month so quite pleased just to get it over with. It is good to hear that clomid didn't affect you that much. I am crossing fingers for you, twins and all!
Oh MrsHy - I hope you are pregnant! That must be so frustrating to be waiting all this time....Cross fingers for you too.
Hope you ladies all have a good weekend.
Tested yesterday and BFN of course - if I ovulated when I originally thought I did, it would have made me 17 dpo yesterday - so I'm fairly sure if I was pregnant it would have showed. But, if I ovulated when I next thought - about a week ago - then I should be spotting by now! It's all very confusing. It also doesn't help that I've had a lot of CM since the last 'batch' (sorry!) of EWCM whereas normally I go from EWCM to nothing to spotting to AF. I also have a bit of boob pain and twinging in my right ovary (that's what it feels like). I think this cycle my poor ovaries have tried and failed to lay an egg twice and are now gearing up for a third go! I guess I'll give it another week and see if AF arrives. I hope there's no sell-by date on the Clomid!
Hello all, please may I join you? I have my first GP appointment on Friday to discuss my luteal phase length - I've only been charting for 4 months, but each month it has got shorter! My first charted cycle was 13 days, which I was pleased with, then it went down to 11, then 9, then 8 this month. I called my GP this morning to ask if they thought I should be concerned, and they asked me to come in, which I wasn't really expecting - I thought they'd ask me to chart for a few more months and then call again if it hadn't lengthened. Does anyone have any tips on questions to ask? I was going to ask about vitamin B6 and agnes castus, and about doing some tests, but any advice would be very gratefully received. Thanks!
LoveIn - welcome. That's strange that there is such a varied LP length as that normally stays fairly consistent. I've read about a few people having this. I guess you're positive about when you're ovulating..? Are your cycles quite regular?
Anyway, what i have learnt from MN is that many people's experiences with GPs regarding fertility in general and espeically LP is frustrating to say the least. If you find your GP saying LP of 8 days is not important then you know they don't know much about it! I would tell them it's a concern for you and you would like the Day 3 LH and FSH test and day 21 progesterone test. Whilst you're there, you might as well get all the other tests like thyroid, vit D all done. Just rule out all the standard ones. Once you get your results and even if they're normal, I would try and get a referral to a gynae. They are the specialists in fertility and not GPs.
I say all this , not knowing how long you've been trying. Many GPs like you to be trying for a year (if you're under 35) but if it's bothering you and you want to get to the bottom of it, I would always suggest being proactive. If you get pregnan in the meantime, well you haven't lost anything! I hope that is of some help.
Thanks, joycep - my ever-decreasing luteal phase does seem a bit odd when it's supposed to stay fairly consistent. It tends to be fairly clear from EWCM and temperatures when I've ovulated, but I have got some OV tests this month for the first time so we'll see if those results match the rest. We only started trying in January, so it's very early days, but my GP seemed keen on the phone for me to come in, so hopefully given the massive weirdness of my luteal phase they will take it seriously. I will push for tests I think as surely a decrease over 4 cycles from 13 days to 8 must suggest something is not quite right! A couple of months I have had lots of cramping in the luteal phase but then AF has arrived so I've wondered if maybe an egg has been fertilised and is trying to implant but AF overrules things? This may, however, be entirely inaccurate/medically impossible! I will see what my GP says on Friday. I think my medical insurance pays for fertility testing (going to check the policy tonight) so it may be that if I can get a referral from my GP, I can go forward with insurance.
Yes it's strange but hopefully there's a simple explanation. It may be sth to do with progesterone levels but I'm no doctor so I won't speculate (a bad trait of mine!). Well I hope your GP is really helpful. But if you have insurance, definitely worth using witha good gynae. Keep us posted!
Thanks for your help, joycep - I also wondered about progesterone levels but am similarly prone to medical speculation despite my total lack of training! Will let you know how Friday goes.
Any news MrsH? AF or third go?
joy Sorry AF got you. How's the Clomid going?
Hope you're both feeling positive about the Clomid step. I was.
Welcome love. Your cycles sounds very similar to mine. Good luck with the testing. Btw I tried B6 and I thought it helped, but my consultant says it doesn't, so I don't know.
I'm on 11dpo and no sign of AF, but also testing BFN (I know I shouldn't but I always do). I'll have to wait and see.
Thanks for 'checking in' greengrassy. Fairly heavy spotting today so think AF is on her way. Got to 7dpo with no spotting though (normally start at 5dpo) so rather happy with that! I'll have to see when I do come 'on' properly. Had kind of lost all belief that I was pregnant - so to be honest I was fairly happy to see the spotting as it means I can start Clomid very soon!
Welcome love. Do let us know what your doc says! I've now decided to cut out all my supplements (B6, B complex, omegas and vit D!), Chinese herbs and acupuncture as I don't think anything made a difference to be honest. Just sticking with my Pregnacare for obvious reasons.
Greengrassy - really good luck! Keeping everything crossed for you! x
Sorry about the spotting but hopefully MrsHY you can now move on.
I'm only on the Pregnacare. I quit the acupuncture and b6 as well. I have gone and bought some of the robittisun as i gather clomid can have a bad effect on ewcm. Perhaps over thinking this.
Really have my fingers crossed for you grassy. So far , so good for me. Scan on Monday and so will see what has happened
This morning had faintest waft of a line on Internet cheapie so tested with a first response and got a definite line. Yay!!! Hooray for clomid. It's so early so am trying to pace excitment as last time had a mc. Due date from previous time was today!
Happy clomid is ok for you joy. Let us know how it goes on Monday. Was worried about cm too so bought preseed. Didn't actually use it this month though. We SWIed a couple of days before scan, and the night before too.
Hope AF comes/has come prop MrsH, so you can start.
OMG greeengrassy - that is fab, well done!! Really hoping this one goes all the way. Please keep us posted on developments. Do you have to go and get progesterone to support the pregnancy?
oh you have really given me hope now as our situations have been kind of similar!!!!
WOOP! Greengrassy that's ace!! So chuffed for you! Keep us posted won't you. By the way, what dose of Clomid were you on and for which days? I'm on 50mg days 2-6 to start with but I've been reading a thread on another forum and got myself concerned that this relatively low dose won't make any difference, but then I DO ovulate on my own I guess. I wish I wouldn't over-analyze everything!
Apols greengrassy - I've re-read the thread and I see that you were on 50mg cd2-6 too! Hurrah! I want a piece of your action! (OK, that sounds a bit wrong...)
I've been reading this thread for a few weeks now too. I had a miscarriage in February and saw the consultant who treated me privately on Monday when I started my period as the gap between ovulating and getting my period was only 8 days! I've been put on clomid 50mg days 2-6 which I started yesterday. I'm hoping and keeping everything crossed it works! Have a scan next Friday cd13 to see the egg/follicles. Is it revolting to bd the night before? My consultant has said the egg can last 2 days and the time to have sex is the day of ovulation and the day after too!
Greengrassy, can I ask how often you bd'd?
Welcome! I don't think I'll be far behind you - I think day one of 'full flow' (isn't that revolting) AF will be tomorrow, then I'll be on the same Clomid regimen as you.
I've been told to BD every other day from cd10-cd20, and also to use OPKs in this timeframe. So, if I get a positive OPK on day 17 let' say, we'll BD that day too!
I'm so interested to see what differences, if any, Clomid makes to my cycle. Like you, I only tend to get 8 days, max 9, between O and my period. But I don't tend to O until day 25, and this month it was day 37!
Sorry to hear about your miscarriage by the way. How far along were you?
And hi ditzy - i started on the clomid on Sunday, same dosage as you. I think we will bd every other day as well from about now as i normally ovulae around day 15/16 and not sure when i will on clomid. I was always told the egg only lasts 24hrs max but i guess just before and day of ovulation is the best time to bd...i wonder whether it depends on how fast the swimmers are!! My DH's aren't the most mobile so i think i will need to bd several days before to give them a head start .
Let's hope we all follow in Greengrassy's footsteps!
Hi back everyone! It was actually an ectopic that cleared itself, pretty awful though
I've just been reading back again and seen other people are being given HSG shots, my consultant hasn't mentioned this? And he's scanning me on day 13, I wonder why when everyone else seems to have been scanned earlier? Also, the consultant I'm having to pay to see also works for the NHS but the wait would have been too long. I wonder if he would have given me clomid on the NHS? It seems they don't like giving it out? I wonder why when they will privately?
Anyway, it's lovely to know there are people out there who don't get pregnant at the drop of a hat who you can share experiences with. Let's hope this is a lucky thread!!!
Thank you, ladies, for the well wishes. I did have an hcg and progest blood test today and everything looks good (to the extent that they can say). I'm really excited and really, really nervous! I thought of you all almost immediately after doing the test, and really hope that the Clomid works quickly for you too. Though I don't really know if it was the Clomid or just a coincidence. DH and I really went for it with the SWI because he is slightly less stressed at work, and I think this may have had something to do with it too.
Joy Thank you for suggesting SM. I will be taking progest suppositories, but only because I'm flying abroad this weekend. If I weren't I wouldn't be taking them, as she said my levels were good. Can't wait to hear how your eggs are getting on. Will you be on the progest straight after ovulation? (I forgot your DH had slow swimmers. Mine does too, and they are only 2% normal morph! He's been taking Zita West's supplements for 2 months now - maybe that helped too.)
MrsH I hope you get some of this action too. I was on 50 2-6 and I ovulated on my own too, so wasn't really sure what the Clomid was for, but I'm not going to argue now! will defo keep you posted, and looking forward to hearing how you all get on.
ditz Welcome! We BDed 3 days before my scan (which I thought was day 10, but was actually day 12 (due to confusing spotting) (I think if it had been day10 I wouldn't have been given the hcg shot until later), the night before, the evening of the scan, the next morning and that evening. And I think the next morning and the morning after that for good measure! (We are not maniacs - just DH a little less stressed with work than normal, so we went for it!)
My guess as to why they don't give Clomid on the NHS is that it's because it is very expensive to monitor and not worth it for those people who do ovulate on their own. I read somewhere about some guideline saying that clinics should try Clomid before IVF for most people.
Grassy - oh that's great all looks good so far. I can imagine I will be exacly the same as you when i get a bfp - so excited that it's happened but incredibly nervous about m/c again. With SM I feel like she is a safe pair of hands though so you will be fine. Personally I don't think it sounds like a coincidence...I'm sure the clomid must have had sth to do with it and put everything in sync. Oh and it's great to hear hat your DH has got you pregnant twice now with 2% morph - that is considered within normal limits though. My DH is 7% and 49% motile - I can imagine they swim backwards but luckily the vol is good! I have had him popping zinc and wellman for months now and have been keeping a beedy eye on his drinking!
Anyway, I can't wait to hear whether you released both those eggs you saw and whether they were both fertilised. Have a safe trip abroad.
I agree with grassy abou why clomid isn't prescribed to ovulating women on the nhs. I thought it was going to be very pricey but it was only £17 for about 4 months worth. However, it is the tracking tha is costly. MrsH had to really fight for it.
Ditzy - it may be worth asking about the Hcg shot. When i went in last month for a scan on day 13 (I hadn't taken clomid) my egg was ripe and ready but I know that i wouldn't have ovulated for another 2 or 3 days. Apparently the mechanism for releasing the egg can be a bit slow sometimes and the HCG shot encourages ovulation within the next 24 hours.
Do you think clomid can make you more energetic? I am sure i have more energy than usual. I didn't think there were positive side effects!
Hi - I'm new to the thread. I think I have problem with my LP. It's about 8/9 days. I had no problem at all conceiving DS, fell pregnant first month so never thought about LP. We have now been TTC#2 for 5 months and I've realised there could be a problem. This month I knew I was pregnant all the same symptoms as I had before, even leaked some colostrum, but started bleeding last night.
So I just wanted to understand the best approach from here, did you find your doctors helpful or is there an alternative aproach. Also the very early colostrum, could that be caused by too much prolactin and if so is that a potential issue.
Am gutted today so any help would be great.
Update from GP apt - I have been referred for all the tests recommended by joycep (thanks again for your help) so now just need to wait for ov to book the tests 7 days later. They seemed to take it v seriously which was good obviously but also unnerving as was an admission that it was not all in my head! My GP's policy is that if you are over 30 (not 35) they're happy to investigate further after six months not twelve - they would have been happy to do the blood tests at any stage of trying but this means they will also happily pack us off to assisted conception unit for next stage of getting this sorted once tests come back. Thanks all for your help.
Lovein - that's great they took it seriously and great they're proactive. It's strange how difference every GP surgery is.
Hope everyone is ok and hope Clomid is going ok MrsHY.
My CD10 scan showed that I had developed 3 follicles...triplets?! No, one was smaller and so I was injected with HCG which apparently will release the 2 ripe eggs. My consultant didn't seem very happy with what she saw. It's strange although in theory I should have double the chance this month, I'm not feeling that confident because I haven't had ewcm this month. I normally have it for 4 days but the clomid seems to have dried everything out! I just can't understand how any swimmers can get up there. The gynae said there was nothing i could do so i will see what happens.
Imo - i'm not sure what colostrum is i'm afraid....but you should definitely go and speak to your GP about your 8/9day LP and get some initial bloods done.
Just got back from my CD10 scan this morning (except technically it was cd9). I had four follicles but no single one has emerged as dominant yet - so they've asked me to go back for a second scan next Tuesday (cd13). Bit disappointed but hey ho, perhaps one will look a bit bigger and meaner than the rest by Tuesday!
Joycep - I wonder if they'll offer me a trigger shot if nothing's happening by Tuesday? Will have to wait and see I guess.
Have you had any side-effects? I am getting hot flushes once or twice a night during my sleep - but that seems to be the size of it so far.
When do you normally ovulate? Could it be that you'll now get EWCM for a few days now you've had the shot - or will the shot literally cause ovulation to happen in the next day or so?
Also wonder if the consultant will up my dose to 100mg for the next cycle if I'm still waiting for something to happen next week...
joycept - could you try Pre-Seed for lack of EWCM? Good luck with this cycle, really hope it happens for you this month.
I am waiting to ovulate so can book blood tests, but am on CD16, had EWCM days 10-13 which has now dried up, but no temperature rise and no positive OPKs. No idea what is going on! Do tend to ovulate quite late, though, so hoping EWCM will come back and be accompanied by a temp rise...
Hi MrsHY - well that's positive about 4 follies...CD10 is still quite early, it's a shame that the bank holiday w/e falls in between.
I normally ovulate around day 15/16. But the hcg shot induces ovulation and you ovuate within the next 24 hours. Literally i haven't seen any ewcm . Normally it is pretty obvious for 4 days. Anyway, ovulation will have been and gone now.
If one of yours is dominant by Tuesday, perhaps you should ask for the hcg injection. I think it mimics the LH surge and just forces ovulation. I think my releasing mechanism is slow.
I'm pretty sure I was getting various pains in my womb area and I wondered whether it was the clomid. I don't normally get that but it disappeared this week. I think I was getting minor hot flushes during the day but I wonder whether all of this were all psychosomatic. I think I was so worried about side effects and over stimulation that I was thinking every pain or hot moment was related!!
lovein - it could be that your body geared up for ovulation and it didn't happen. It would be interesting to see what a scan showed and how big your follicles are at the moment. I think temp taking is great because if you weren't taking them you would have thought you had ovulated by now...
joycep - maybe try some Robbitusin to counteract the clomid drying up EWCM? Although I have been taking that (well, the Boots own brand one that contains Gualififenisin and nothing else) plus grapefruit juice and have had the aforementioned EWCM but no ov!
I wondered if body had tried to gear up for ov but had somehow not happened - this is my first month taking vitamin B6 so wondered if could be connected but have never heard of that before! Who knows... bloody TTC!
Have a nice bank holiday, everyone - good luck!
I think that the body is adept at making us think that we're ovulating and then not following through! I had this last cycle. I found something useful on Wikipaedia of all places, about why there can be significant differences in a woman's follicular phase (the first bit) but not the lp. Basically, your follicles develop and if one doesn't grow dominant, for whatever reason, then they all 'retreat' and hence the whole process starts again! Hence multiple patches of cm throughout the cycle. It's a pain!!!
That's interesting, MrsHY, thanks. I think have probably actually ovulated today as positive OKP yesterday and pleasing amount of EWCM - just need the matching temp rise now. Have convinced self that vit B6 will have worked its magic but just in case will be booking my blood tests anyway. Hope everyone else is doing well this month?
How is the 2ww going joy? And how did your second scan go MrsH?
joy 2 ripe eggs - double the chance!! Also just wanted to say, I didn't have ewcm last month either, even though I normally have lots of it for 4 or 5 days. I also forgot to use the preseed even though I had it at home, and was worried about how the fellas would get up there.
All going ok here.
Good luck everyone.
greengrassy - great to hear that all is well!
Had the second scan yesterday - still 'no where near ready for ovulation' but she said that several women's follicles grow much more quickly than the 'advertised' 1mm a day - so she's asked me to do OPKs every day and go back on Friday for a THIRD scan. Sigh. Me and their Dildo-cam are becoming best buddies.
Trying not to become despondent and to remember that the most important thing is to O. Just had these fantasies of O-ing earlier than day 25 which doesn't seem to be on the cards at the moment!
I asked if they would increase the dose next cycle - she said possibly - but they don't like to rush things.
Will let you know how I get on after Friday!
How's everyone else - joycep?
Fab news on the +OPK Lovein!
Great grassy that all is going well. Will you be going for a 7 wk scan to see if both eggs fertilised?? Did you have any signs you were pregnant before your bfp? I remember last time I had quite strong AF pains which I now know are implantation cramps so I wonder whether you get the same symptoms again.
Also so pleased to hear that you had no ewcm either....that has really given me hope that it is possible!
MrsHY - sorry yours aren't quite ready yet. I hope you have better news on Friday. |The most important thing is to O and hopefully because it's taking time you are forming perfect eggs!
All ok my end. I think i must be around 7dpo but i don't really know any more as i don't keep track. Thanks for the Robitussin tip. I bought some, took one teaspoon and it made me feel so sick, I couldn't face doing it again. I will force myself next cycle...if I have to of course!
Hello, hope I can intrude and ask a question about LP please? Sorry if this is covered somewhere in this thread and I've missed it.
My LP tends to be 12-13 days which as I understand should be ok. But that is based on calculating from ov to when my period starts properly. I always get quite a few days of spotting before my period properly starts though, sometimes up to five days. So actually in some instances I'm starting to spot on about day 8. It tends to be fairly light spots (sorry this is all TMI) which I only notice when I wipe, but does sometimes include (sorry even more TMI) a bit of clotting.
Does this mean I have a short LP, or is it only about when you start properly? Thanks so much for any advice you can offer x
Don't worry - you're fine - everything I've read and every fertility specialist I've spoken to says that you only count the first day of 'full flow' period (sorry!) as day one of the following cycle - so no need to count the spotting.
I spot too - and find it incredibly frustrating - except I spot from 5/6dpo and only 'come on' on day 8/9 - far too short.
The spotting in itself shouldn't be a problem - I think there can be many causes but everyone I've spoken to have told me not to worry.
MrsH How was the third scan and the opks?
highlove I had exactly the same LP issue as you, sometimes spotting for a week! I know how depressing it is to spot at 8 dpo, and it just doesn't seem right that one could be spotting at the same time as the emb should be implanting. My consultant decided I had a slight hormone imbalance due to fsh/lh levels despite all the GPs blood tests coming back fine. She thought this might be causing the spotting too. The first month I was given an hcg injection and my LP was 14 days with no spotting. The second month I was on clomid and an hcg injection.
joy I've got a scan on monday and am quite nervous. I think it's only one though, as hcg levels were very normal. I didn't really have a symptoms as I've imagined so many in the last year that I totally gave up on them. How's the 2ww going?
grassy - good luck today, I hope it goes well and you see at least 1 heartbeat. I can imagine it will be nerveracking.
i will test tomorrow at 13dpo....or this pm. 99% sure it's a no no this month as I just don't have any twinges or any symptoms to report. I was so hoping i was following in your lucky footsteps with the clomid, hcg, 2 eggs and SM but I think it has ended here sadly! Really good luck today.
Hi, sorry have been away for the weekend and not able to respond. But thanks so much for your reassuring advice.
Greenygrassy, how did you get on with Clomid? I have one more cycle to try naturally and then everything crossed my consultant will give in and accept I'm not going to get up the duff without a bit of help!
Thanks all x
joy Did you test? Have fx, was also so hoping it would work for you this month.
Thanks for the good wishes yesterday. The scan went well and we saw one heartbeat, which was fab and v exciting. There was also a second dark area right next to it that is either a bruise or a second gestational sac with nothing in it. Because of this I have to take it v easy and not run or lift anything heavy, or have sex, as we don't want it to come away and take healthy sac with it or start bleeding. Ahhhhh!
highlove I took the Clomid at night and felt fine with it. I honestly didn't notice it. Then, bfp!
joy Have been stalking the TTC 6+ thread, and I'm really sorry for the bfn, it's so tough. Was thinking maybe you could to talk to Jill (SM's PA) about saving money. I was thinking of doing this last month. Maybe getting the prescriptions from somewhere cheaper.
Hi grassy - that's great news about the HB!! How exciting. Not doing very much for the time being sounds not too bad! Anyway, so pleased for you and hopefully it will all go swimmingly from here on in.
Yes got another bfn this morning. I knew I shouldn't have tested but couldn'tt help myself. AF will be with me tomorrow. I may talk to her about how to save on money. It's really the appt and the scan that is so pricey - i've nearly spent £2k in the last 2 months ...eeek!
Joycep - sorry to hear about the BFN. Like greengrassy I was hoping this might be your month too. It's definitely worth talking to your consultant about the expense as it can get ridiculous.
Grassy - Fab news about the heartbeat! Take it really easy won't you - I'm sure the dark bit is nothing to worry about, but use it as an excuse to put your feet up and let OH pamper you!
As for me - third scan on Friday still showed no dominant follicle - boo. Am heading back tomorrow morning for a 4th scan (day 21). I keep pressing them each time to give me a cut-off point for when they would definitely agree to upping my dose next cycle - but I've seen 4 different people so far and no-one will seem to give me a definite answer. I'm hoping I at least ovulate this cycle so it won't be wasted though - sorry if TMI but for the last few days I've been very 'wet' down there with a mixture of watery, creamy and the teensiest bit of EWCM - no smiley face on the OPK yet though!
Will let you know tomorrow whether anything has improved (I REALLY hope so)...
MrsHY - I'm so sorry you are still waiting for the dominant follicle to show. It really does sound like you will need to up the dose. That's annoying you are seeing different people as well. It sounds like sth is happening though and I'm crossing fingers that you'll get a smiley opk very soon.
Thanks joycep. Looks like we might finally be getting somewhere! Scan this morning showed one dominant follicle at a size 'ready to rupture'. It's really interesting seeing it on the scan for myself - it was big!
So, we need to start BD in earnest and up the OPKs to twice a day to catch the LH surge. This time, I had a really lovely nurse (another new person!) and she has made a note on my file that an increased dose may be beneficial and has asked me to call on my first day of AF to see whether I've got the go-ahead to start on 100 mg a day. Can't help hoping that another cycle won't be needed and this month (it's our 3 yr wedding anniversary on Tuesday) will be our month - but I'm not the world's best optimist! xx
MrsH Yay! So happy you've finally got a nice big juicy follicle. What a long trek it's been. Time to start some serious swi. I always get lots of wet watery cm before ovulation too (no such thing as tmi on here!).
joy Hope you're feeling a little better today. You're right, it is the scan, etc that's expensive. I just looked at my bill and I was charged £50 for a review of the consultation brief, which, I think, was a 30 sec read of my notes shortly before the scan. I thought maybe if they know you're paying yourself they might try to help a bit.
I got a smiley face on my clearblue digi OPK this morning! Sooo happy. OK, so I'm still ovulating ridiculously late (cd22 today), but at least I'm ovulating! BD last night and will do so again tonight, and tomorrow night too for good measure. We're flying to Iceland tomorrow night for our anniversary so won't get to BD until late - but at least we'll be chilled as it's the start of our 5 day anniversary mini-break! xx
Hi I would like to join please. LP around 9 days. TTC DC 2 and LP has shortened since DS born so not sure of impact of this. I am just in the process of reading through the thread. Have posted a question in Conception thread but only had one reply, so wondering if I might be able to post a question here?
hi Smk84 - ask away. We'll try and help.
mrshy- great news on the smiley face and the folly! And good that you have got ewcm as well. good luck with the swi and trip to iceland.
Af has come for me so on to another month. Debating whether to do the clomid this month, it really dried me out (sorry tmi) and made everything a little uncomfortable i really don't think that can have helped matters. But perhaps that's giving up a bit too quick. urrgggh.
joycep - Have you got any conceive plus? I use that when I'm feeling a bit dry and it works wonders. Have had to get the quantity right by trial and error though - too much and OH doesn't get much sensation! OMG it's amazing how comfortable I've become sharing.....!!!
hiya Mrshy, yes i 've got some of that. I'm going to do a couple of more months i think on clomid and see what happens. Will crack on with the Robitusson as well to see if that helps this month. Just been getting wound up by all this - into month 14 now and really panicking.
oh i know what you mean - you wouldn't catch me in RL discussing this kind of stuff. I don't think anyone cares on here as none of us can see each other. It's fab!
How are we all?
I'm on cd 31 today. Got my smiley face on cd22 so I think I ovulated on cd 23 - meaning I'm 8dpo today. I've been spotting beige (sorry) since 4dpo which I was really gutted about - I kind of thought (perhaps naively!) that with Clomid I'd have a spot-free text book 2ww! However - the spotting this time is a little irregular - it started very light as per usual, then got a little heavier, then went away for a day, then came back. It's still not 'red' and not a 'flow' so I've been told to not count it as AF. I don't feel like AF is round the corner - normally the day before full AF strikes the spotting turns heavier and redder in colour and I feel a bit bloated, crampy and 'heavy' I guess you could say. I'm not feeling that yet.
I'm not kidding myself - I don't think this is implantation bleeding or anything - it started too early and has gone on too long. But even if Clomid gets me to 10dpo rather than 8-9 dpo I'll be very happy!
Hope everyone else is well xx
Ps, joycep - I know 14 months seems like forever, but don't lose hope yet. I get INCREDIBLY wound up and it's only been since November for me - and I don't really count November because due to one thing and another, we didn't BD at the right time at all.
Our times will definitely come xx
Hi, I am beginning to think I have a LP 'problem' too.
I'm so sorry if I'm going over things that have already been covered but am on the verge of going back to my docs AGAIN.
If I'm spotting for 12 days up until my period start properly, is this meaning that my body is already preparing for my next proper bleed and that there is a slim chance of a fertilized egg embedding properly?
I think the jury's out on that one. The GP and fertility consultant I have seen were not unduly worried about my spotting and said it was very common. I then read something that says that the womb can shed a layer of 'nutrients' before your proper period starts - this makes sense to me because I'm sure my spotting has got worse since I started taking a daily Pregnacare packed full of nutrients! I'm no doctor though so perhaps that theory is rubbish!
How long is your LP in general, ie from O to 'full flow' (!)? If it's 12 days or more I think you're absolutely fine. I started Clomid because my entire LP is 8-10 days. But even so - I had to practically demand it as the consultant really didn't 'believe' in LP problems and said that it shouldn't be affecting my chances of falling pregnant.
Who knows?! All I know is I'm not pregnant yet!
Hi all, Just joined mumsnet and my very first post!
Been TTC for about 10 months now, but have very irregular periods (21 days - 122 days!!). GP has done some blood tests and ultrasound. There are apparently some cysts on my ovaries and so have polycystic ovaries but he wouldn't consider me to have PCOS as my hormones are ok. Not really sure how PCOS differs from polycystic ovaries....?
Have been charting my basal temperature for about 6 months and no shifts in temperature at all which I think is very odd. Started using ovulation sticks last month and had LH surge on day 15, but then started my period (maybe although could just be spotting) 8 days later. Looks as if have short luteal phase as well as all the irregularity and so quite concerned!!
Was thrilled to hear of greengrassy success story. But also comforting to hear other people having issues too and that I'm not alone
Hi, I have a question I am hoping someone on here can answer. I have a luteal phase of about 10 days, and cycles of 33 to 45 days. I recently went to the doctor as I have been TTC for a while with no success, and she told me I would need a blood test. She said it would normally be done on day 21 but because of my slightly odd cycle that wouldn't work. She thought about it for a while then suggested I get it done 5 to 7 days after I get a positive on an OPK. I thought I would ask you knowledgeable folk on here what day would be best to have the blood test to get the most accurate results? Thanks in advance!
Hi Leigh - I'm sorry you have been having issues as well and poor you having such irregular periods but that will probably be because of the polycystic ovaries. I'm afriad I don't know what the difference is between PCOS and Polycystic ovaries. Out of interest what did yuor progesterone levels show? Has it shown you are ovulating? The trouble with OPKs are that they don't prove you have ovulated. I am not sure how accurate temp taking is but if you are not seeing a rise in temp I would have thought that means an anovulatory cycle but don't hold me to that. Has a good gynae taken you under your wing? I totally understand how concerning things are but the good news is that irregular cycles, anovulatory cycles and short luteal phases can be sorted with metformin and clomid and various other things.
Notinmykitchen - when i had to do my day 21 pogesterone test, i used OPKs and i took my temps as well so i could be sure when I actually ovulated. This may be more the accurate way of finding out when you have actually ovulated as opks can show a surge but don't prove you have ovulated. The rise in temps tell you that you actually have ovulated. I hope that makes snse! Anyway, I went in 7 days after i pinpointed ovualtion. hope that helps.
MrshY - any good news from your end? I went for a scan and have a follicle that should make it. Have been given ovitrelle or something to inject once i see a positive opk. Not sure i'm keen on injecting myself but hey ho! Anyway, i'm being moved on to iui next month i think. i don't get any ewcm on clomid and it has given me thrush at my key time so i'm a bit of a hostile environment i think!
No positive news here - AF got me today! It's been REALLY wierd and drawn out this cycle though - started spotting at 3dpo - spotting was very scant but turned very dark brownish, small bit of red blood Sunday night, bit more yesterday, then full flow today. Think my total LP (although I wasn't temping) was 10 days, so Clomid at 50mg has 'bought' me an extra couple of days.
I spoke to the hospital who told me that as I ovulated, there would be 'no point' in upping my Clomid dose to 100mg, so they want me to carry on at 50mg. I realise this might be quite contraversial, but I REALLY want to see if by increasing the dose I can O earlier and extend my LP even more - so am going to increase it myself! I have 2 more courses at 50mg, so essentially I have one at 100mg. I think the risks are negligble as I only had the one dominant follicle at 50mg - so it doesn't look like I'm going to be a candidate for over-stimulation.
If it makes a difference, then I'm sure the hospital will be cross with me but at least I can demonstrate that it does. Or, of course, I'll be pregnant!
Glad to hear about your follicle. Home injectables eh? Not sure I could cope with that!
hi mrshy - really sorry about AF, what a b****. Oh i talked to my gynae about my weird AF and she said clomid can do that so don't worry if AF is behaving oddly. I would be doing the same as you and upping my dosage - there is nothing like a bit of self medication. It will be interesting to see what happens. Good luck!
Thanks joycep, I'll give that a go
I need help! I concieved my son who is only 9mths after around three months off trying and had a perfect pregnancy!
We have now been trying again for three months, and i have noticed this month my LP is 7days long!!! Period was due 5days ago, and has not appeared, so been testing daily and getting bfn! Today 12dpo i have got three positives! I am now so happy but so so worried i will miscarry, as never knew anything about the complications short luteal phases can cause?
Has anyone else had a healthy baby with short LP?
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply.
CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR BFP!
Now, I'm no expert - but most of the things I have read have suggested that a short luteal phase can only be problematic in that it reduces the amount of time for implantation. Before implantation, it's your luteal phase that pumps our progesterone. After implantation of a fertilised eggy, another mechanism kicks in. So I would say that given your egg has clearly implanted - you're home free!
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Hello gimmegimmegimme and welcome! How long have you been trying for? I have now had a progesterone test at 7dpo which I had to have done privately - so I'll be interested to see what that says. x
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
Same as you really - since November 2010 but a couple of cycles we 'did it' at the wrong time and then in April-May I had a 50 day cycle!
Just got AF today - so will start my second course of Clomid tomorrow. Had a progesterone test at 7dpo and it was really good - 65 (they look for 30 or more) and managed to get a 12dpo luteal phase last time!
From the sounds of it your body is just getting back to normal after the MMC (am very sorry for your loss). But good news that you're getting investigated anyway x
Hi everybody. It's nice to see that there are other people in the same boat as me. Me and DH have been TTC for 2 and a half years. I had ectopic preg last September which was really difficult. I had more surgery then in April and am on IVF waiting list. But while we're waiting we're still trying. I've been having acupuncture for two months and on Agnus Castus for one month trying to lengthen my LP which is about 7-8 days.
The acupuncturist specialises in fertility and recommended AC to try lengthen LP. We'll see what happens but I'm getting pretty desperate and down about it all now. Nevermind, have to keep positive, or so everyone says!!!
Good luck with the acupuncture and agnus castus. Neither worked for me but then I have heard them both working well in other women. I also didn't stick at either of them for very long - only a couple of months - which might not have been long enough for them to take effect!
Sorry to hear about your ectopic.
Do keep positive though - implantation can start to happen as soon as 5dpo and then the egg will start to pump out its own progesterone which will override your LP x
Thanks a million for your encouragement MrsHY1. I was feeling so crappy when I wrote that. I've never written on a forum before so must've been bad. Am better and more positive today!! Another month, another chance!
Hi! I've read some of this thread and wondered if I could drop in and join you... I am having a luteal phase panic at the moment and wondered if anyone had words of wisdom to share!
My cycle used to be 28 days before DD1, then dropped to about 26 days after I had her. After DD2 it was reduced to 23 days. I just had a mc at the end of june, and got AF back 22 days after ERPC... I decided to chart this month because of the mc making me paranoid (haven't done that for years and years, since using rhythm method, when cycle was all normal).
I am on day 12 and no temp raise yet, ov microscope seems to show a bit more ferning today, but not much EWCM yet. Ov sticks don't seem to work for me (told me I didn't ovulate the month I got pg with DD2). So if my cycle is still 23 days, I will be looking at 11 days luteal phase max, if I ovulate today/tomorrow (which looks unlikely)...
I am wondering if my mc was due to low progesterone. I am 38, so don't feel I have loads of time to wait if there is a problem. I have ordered some progesterone cream, and thinking of buying some vitamin B6 tomorrow, and am wondering if it is worth visiting the GP. One of the GPs apparently has gynae knowledge as some level of specialism, but I don't really like him. The GP I usually see is lovely, knows my history, and is always good at offering referrals whenever he can, but does not have a specialism related to this issue. I have only had one mc, and obviously haven't even done a whole chart yet, so don't know what I could expect them to say.
I'm worried that, as we have been SWI, if I do get pg this month, and if low progesterone caused my mc, that it could make me mc again if untreated.
Possibly getting totally ahead of myself here - can you tell I am freaking out??? Hoping someone can help!
Sorry to hear about your miscarriage.
I went to the GP after only 4/5 months of trying and one early miscarriage.
I fully expected to be shewed away and told to come back in 6 months.
BUT she seemed to know about short luteal phases, I showed her 5 months of charts and she was great. Referred me for all the blood tests I wanted, plus a few more. Said better to find out if there is a problem now than wait 6 months, and I am only 31. I am also convinced my miscarriage was caused by low progesterone and keen to avoid that heartache again if possible.
So you may be lucky. Be assertive, show you have done your research and hold your ground!
I thought I would resurrect this thread as I have found it really helpful.
Since coming off the pill in January my LP has gone from 9 days with spotting for 4 days to 12 days with little to no spotting.
I have just received my latest progesterone test at 29 (vast improvement from 20) still not ideal but I feel like we are making progress!
I have been taking B100 vitamins and having acupuncture.
hi farfalla - how did you impove it? what are your tips?!
Hi joycep, I don;t know if this has made a difference but I have been:
Taking Zita West Vits and B100 (although B100 only for a month)
Cut right down on sugar and booze (have read that alchohol deplets progesterone)
Gone to the gym more
Eaten loads of vegetables
Restriced myself to one coffee a day
Have accupuncture (but only once a month)
Started eating more nuts particularly Brazil nuts as my thyroid is slightly underactive and this is meant to help!
I have had 2 early miscarriages though and currently undergoing some tests but I feel like I moving in the right direction!
I have not tried
Natural porgesterone cream
But I am tempted!!
hi farfa - I missed in your first post that you were on the B100 vitamins and acu. That's interesting about booze. I don't drink too much but i have the odd splurge. I've done the brazil nuts, acu and veg thing but it didn't seem to help but perhaps because i wasn't doing it all together.
I noticed on the m/c forum you mentioned that your consultant believes in progesterone in early pregnancy. Out of interest has he ever suggested you take progesterone pessaries in the 2ww? Also What is your consultant saying about your progesterone levels at 29?
Just going through lots of tests at the moment so don't have the results.
He wants to rule out lots of things first (blood clotting issues and chromosones)
BUT he did say that my TSH was likely to be part of the problem at 3.9 (he likes to see it below 2 for conception) and the reading I have done does suggest a link between the thyroid and most other hormones!!
He has said he thinks likely course of action would be progesterone in 2ww (he thinks from BFP would be too late for me)
I have not discussed progesterone levels with him yet but have the appointment on 3rd November. I think from he has said in the past that he would like to see it higher.
Have you had your thyroid tested at all?
oh that's interesting about your thyroid. Hopefully if that can be controlled then that will help things and that it's not anything else. I've heard so many things with the thyroid and conceiving but hopefully they can sort it for you.
It's weird because i 've always thought that i had a thyroid problem because i'm always frozen and it runs in my family. I'm sitting here witha radiator on and i'm still frozen but my gp said my bloods were all fine. Anyway i'm sure there are more symptoms than that! I might just check what my tsh levels were when i get home because i know they've missed things before.
That's intersting that he will put you on progesterone in 2ww. I've been put on that some months as my level showed 30. Is this a private consultatn?
Hi joycep I am seeing Raj Rai, he does both private and NHS (and run St Marys RMC with Lesley Regan)
I am seeing him privately as I don't qualify on the NHS, he is a lovely man and quite conservative in approach (he does not for example test NK cells and he thinks its unproven, I know lots of people have had success with it though so who knows)
My GP also told me my levels were 'fine' as they are in the referece range which is 0.27 - 4.20. Mine were at 3.9 so technically normal but he said there is new research to say that anything over 3 is not (which I think is the case in Oz and USA) and certainly for TTC it should be under 2.
I don;t have any symptoms really and you would not expect to at that level I don't think!
Will wait and see!
Goodness that is so interesting. I've heard of Raj Rai. Isn't incredible that they give reference ranges which aren't right! It just makes me wonder what else we don't know. I almost want to rush home now and go and check what mine were. Sorry to keep questioning you but what is Raj going to do about your thyroid to get levels down? Also, can the thryoid make it difficult to conceive or more cause a m/c?
I've clearly spent far too long on MN over this year because i've just found a previous thread where i pasted my results!.
TSH - 1.60mu/l
My t4 level was 13.8pmol/l and normal said 9.0-19.0.
It used to be 10 apparently!
The issue with reference ranges is they are huge and if you are close to the 'normal' limits on either side that can be a difference of a factor of 100!
Apparently its fairly simple and involves taking Thyroxine (a hormone)
Once you start taking it though I think you have to be on it for ever so I can see the reluctance to treat people who are borderline.
I believe it can cause both problems concieving and with MC.
I hope I have not caused you to worry, i know what it is like. I veer all the time to thinking I have found some other problem (convinced myself I had PCOS, prematrure ovarian failure and early menopause all in one afternoon!)
That is a great TSH level joycep
No you haven't caused me to worry at all but it's good to hear what other people have been told. And i think it's human nature to want answers to why things aren't happening. I'm glad it's fairly simple to correct though and hopefully a bit of thyroxine and a bit of progesterone will do the trick next time. I would be intersted to know if your doc thinks along the same line as my gynae and that progesterone levels should be above 40...
And i know that feeling too well, i have spent hours hyperventalating with all those suspected problems too!! My latest theory on my lack of being able to conceive is that DH and I are just genetically incompatible. Obviously hoping that all my far flung theories are disapproved very soon with two fat pink lines
Oooh joycep fingers crossed for you!!
I posted on here in July having started agnus castus and acupuncture. I also went on a low sugar diet to help with inflammation etc as recommended in the Zira West books. Anyway after two months on agnus castus my luteal phase went to 12 days from 7 days which I was thrilled about. Even though I'm on the IVF waiting list we carried on trying and I'm now 7 weeks pregnant! We had an anxious wait for early scans after my previous ectopic but it was in the right place. I'm being closely followed with regular scans and my next one is on Friday. Just wanted to write and give hope to other women out there. I'm still so nervous about mc but trying to relax. Fingers crossed all will work out for us after almost three years ttc.
Patience - huge congratulations. i wish you all the best for a successful pregnancy. It is your time now - you have been through enough after taking nearly 3 years, so look after yourself and thanks for posting. It does give me hope!!
I've found this thread really helpful and was hoping to resurrect it.
Any (more) good news stories out there?
Am a bit worried because temps, opks, cm and mid cycle cramps over the past year point to a luteal phase of only 7-9 days for me. Have tried b6 and agnus castus with no luck as yet.
GP doesn't see it as a problem though I can't see how it can't be, I mean if an egg can take 6-10 days to implant how can it have a chance if uterus starts to break down during this time?
I will finally see fertility consultant next month (fingers crossed) and want to go armed with lots of info incase he fobs me off too. I gather lots of doctors don't take this issue seriously.
Would really like to hear (more) stories from those with a similar problem, especially any success stories in dealing with difficult doctors and of course finally getting bfps!
Hi Chantelle, just noticed this thread again. Eeek it was started 18months ago and I am no further forward, no baby . Anyway, I would say that a 7-9 day LP is problematic. Without generalising too much, I have found GPs knowledge very limited on this subject to say te least. The good news is, if you can find someone who takes it seriously then it can be rectified. Short LPs can be a sign of something else like pcos or ovulating issues. Have you had any monitoring scans or progesterone tests done as this should be the first step? I know a girl who had a 7 day LP and clomid and metaphor min helped her get pregnant and she now has a little girl after being told she should just go to ivf. What were your progesterone levels?
Sorry I meant Christelle , in a car so cat read properly !
I have just read all this thread with great interest, thanks for resurrecting! I have a ridiculously short lp of around 4-6 days and irregular cycles anywhere from 32-108 days! I started using opks last cycle and thats when I discovered my lp. Been to my gp twice and she's now referred me to gynae, but my appointment isn't until dec, so I'm going to ring on Monday and see if it can be brought forward, even if it means paying. The bloods my gp did showed a progesterone of <1 which is crap. I've been Ttc for 12 months, I know I can concieve as I have a 17 month old little boy, which I'm beginning to feel his conception was a blessing and a miracle .ive been taking a cocktail of drugs incl, agnus castus,epo,pregnacare conception and vit b complex...I'm starting to rattle!
How long have you been Ttc? Perhaps we can keep this thread going to support one another? Good luck with everything
I've also been looking into reflexology but haven't actually done anything about it yet
I have a LP of around 8 days and am trying to lengthen it. Want to take B6 but it only comes in 10mg capsules. What dose are you guys taking? I tried agnus castus......missed two periods, negative test, so unsure what that did to me! am now temping daily once more, and monitoring CF. AF arrives despite DH and I managing to hit ovulation just before and on the nose...to no avail. I am thinking of going to GP to see if I can be prescribed progesterone cream.....although seen it for sale on Amazon. I have bee TTC for nearly six years, unexplained infertility. Desparation is driving me a little crazy I think! Any advice aprreciated.
Haven't read the whole thread, just the start and then skipped to the end.
I have a borderline short LP - usually about 9 or 10 days with lots of spotting before and after AF. We're TTC #2 for about 9 months now. I first realized my LP was short when we were TTC for DS. He took 8 months to conceive and no one had sorted my LP out in that time, so it is possible to get pregnant. I've had blood tests done both last time we were ttc and this time as well and both have shown normal hormone levels.
Am now trying acupuncture and my cycle does seem a lot more 'normal'. LP is about 11 days now and less spotting. Think the only good thing about a short LP is you can kind of see your GP under the guise of an "abnormal" cycle way before they would do anything for infertility.
I went through all the tests about three years ago....bloods, hysterosalpingogram sp! and scans following several rounds of Clomifene no one at any point said to temp and check Cervical fluid. I wish I had, as it is only recently I have discovered a short luteal phase. Probably too late as I am almost 40. If you are having difficulty, get going with investigating. I went aged 35 and six years later am in the same place.
I have a good news tale as requested, I was on this thread a while back, managed to lengthen LP with acupuncture, high dose B Vits (10mg) and selenium via brazil buts. I also cut right back on the booze and coffee. LP went to 11 days with no spotting from 9 days with 2 days spotting.
I also had a monitored cycle which was really useful as it showed I was getting positive OPKs 2 days after I ovulated so I had to get in there with the early shags!!
Good luck to all
thanks for all the responses! Pleased there are some good news stories out there, sorry to those still trying.
We are ttc for 1 year now so trying not to panic yet - I'm 34.
I'm actually taking 150mg of b6 at the moment (3x50mg tabs) for one last month before I give up on it. Research I've read suggest that 100/150mg is ok but 200mg is bad so not upping it any further. So surprised farfallarocks that such a small dose + acupuncture did the trick for you. Also that is an interesting tale re the OPKs - thankfully I have already given up on them as I was getting a very confusing picture. Now onto CM checking and temps which is better but has confirmed my fear that the LP is too short.
Am also considering progesterone cream though going to ask doc about it first because you can only get low doses without prescription. My pg level for the 21 day test (which I made sure I had 7 days after ov rather than cd 21) was 26 which I was told was just about ok. Scans fine - no PCOS.
joycep really sorry you are still not pg. Where are you at with it all now? Any joy lengthening the lp?
otheregos I am actually booked in to start reflexology next week!! will let you know how I get on, not overly optimistic. If no joy I'll try acupuncture - I thought reflexology sounded less scary to start off with. However if you've only just started tracking your cycle is there a chance that you've just had a strange one this month? I have crazy cycles from time to time.
blackrocked sorry to hear your story. What are the doctors saying about fixing your LP?
Farfallarocks I will be trying that I think. I have made an app with acupuncturist and with GP to discuss with my charts LP and cycle length. I am going to get all my test data printed off and then investigate a private clinic for tests into LP as have had my share of NHS....not going to get any further there, but will ask.
Christelle glad no PCOS. Temps and CM is a great way of tracking, and agree on the progesterone cream. I plan to ask about it too.
Thank you for the advice regarding dosage of B6. Thought around 100g, but will started by taking 10mg this next cycle...and eating brazil nuts!
I have also switched from coffee to green tea, and stopped alcohol. I take pregnacare conception tablet daily.
My next step with the GP was IUI, but I have one child, and DH was not supportive at the time it was offered. He is indifferent about success in having another child, if it happens it happens, if not oh well. He has always been straight with me, and whatever happens he would support me. I just have to get my head around the less positive possibility!
I have been away overnight and had a read about a few things. Early in my cycle my basal temp is 36.2 which is very low, and I also have low blood pressure. I have digestive problems too, which are related to having a low basal temp and have had repeated infections over the last few years. I am going to work on raising my basal temp as well as ensuring I take a vitamin supplement. I am on last resort effort, here but not going to give up. I found a few simple recommendations here <http://www.naturallyknockedup.com/raise-basal-body-temperature/> worth a try?
There is a chance my cycles are just taking there time adjusting from having my little boy 17 months ago. I've only been charting and opk the last 2 cycles, first lp was 6 days a d 2nd cycle was 5 days, I got my vit b from holland and Barrett its vit b complex 100 mg tablets.
I've just phoned the reflexology place and left a message, hoping I can get an appointment for next week! I'll let you know how it goes...as for acupuncture it's really not that bad...I've never had it but I'm a nurse and use to work with chronic pain patients who use to come for acupuncture weekly, which they got on the nhs.
Will it be your 1st baby?...I'm 33 and a 1/2 lol! And realise people have babies a lot older, but feel my clock is ticking esp if seeing the dr and testing etc takes along time, I didn't want too big an age gap between my children but hayho !
Blackrocked, I too have stopped caffeine now...boy did I know about it for starters..mega caffeine withdrawal migraines..clearly I was drinking way too much of the stuff! I haven't stopped alcohol but to be honest I probably only drink once every few months anyway
My husband is not as enthusiastic as I am to wanting another child, he's more if it happens it happens way of thinking, where I have an over whelming urge to have another one and can't imagine not being able to have a2nd, I'm pissed off and very angry at my body's inability to get it right!, but I try not to dwell on it too much as realise stress can play a factor too.
Is it raining everywhere? I'm slowly plucking up the courage to take the dog out
yup ttc #1 for me.
have cut down on caffeine and alcohol a lot but never had thay much of either anyway. however pleasantly surprised how much i get on with decaf tea and coffee- am a real convert now!
I have a short LP too - between 10 and 12 days and you are right, GPs don't really recognise it as an issue, they just test to see if you have a blockage or you are ovulating.
I was soooo frustrated TTC, especially as my periods would range from 19 to 30 days and i found out about my short LP by tracking my basal temperature after we had been TTc for a year, at which point I was pretty upset as I watched people around me fall pregnant at the drop of a hat.
I don't know how you lengthen a LP but my one bit of advice, and what worked for us, would be to try every day from about four or five days before ovulating to about four or five days after, that and a holiday! We would literally do it ten days running, very unromantic I know!
The CBFM didn't work for me because it really only gave me a 'get shagging' indicator about two days before ovulating.
The ' do it every day' advice came from a very experienced consultant and I wish I had seen him at the start. I listened to my GP who said two or three times a week would be sufficient, and I am sure it would be for some but if you have any issue like a short LP you need to boost the odds.
Sorry if that seems obvious to you but it wasn't to me so thought I had better post in case it makes a difference to someone.
I have also tried the every day, or at least every other day, and charting allows for more accuracy. I have had two mc, and one late AF which was very heavy. Suspect implantation isn't quite right for me. Desp to know if you got pg with the short LP cycle.
Hi, sorry for break - didn't have computer this afternoon!
yes I did. First was a missed mc, April last year after a year and a half of trying, and maybe four or six months of doing it every day, then in July/ august we got pregnant after having a d&c in June and I now have a beautiful boy.
I think my MC was a boy too which makes me wonder if a short LP means you are more likely to have boys...the fast swimmers.
Because of the short LP I knew I was pregnant about a week before one might normally know.
I battled with low basal temperature and a history of chronic fatigue in my early twenties so I wondered whether that didn't help things either.
But it can be done, I just wish I had more scientific advice than shag every day!!
I think I read somewhere that your luteal phase was set from childhood but it seems like posters say you can change it?
Hi everyone, just wanted to share my experience of having a short LP. I had been trying for 2 years with no joy when I read about Soy Isoflavones, which basically work like natural clomid to induce ovulation. Even though I already ovulated the Soy capsules helped me ovulate earlier which lengthened my LP (I usually ovulated day 21 of 30 day cycle) I got my 1st BFP that cycle and DS is now 1 !
I'm now thinking about no. 2 (hence hanging around on conception board!) and probably going to try the Soy again but wondered if anyone else had tried it/had any experiences? I'm always quite wary of trying lots of different thing and reluctant to mess with my cycle, but I think I got desperate last time!
It's so hard, when you feel you just know more about your cycle than doctors (which obviously we do).
Thats very useful to know- had already planned to try that next cycle. how many days earlier did you ov and what days did you take it? did you ever discuss with doc?
whatever things doc may know, noone understands your own body like yourself, at least thats my theory!
Hi totobear congrats on your baby!
My first was a boy too, so your theory could be right,
The shagging everyday part is too much for me as my cycles are so irregular ,sometimes 108 days, I'd end up walking like John Wayne!
I've finally booked reflexology for next Thursday, had a lovely chat to the lady and she specialises in maternity and fertility reflexology, so I'm looking forward to that.
I also enquirer about my gynae app in dec and it can't be brought forward as its classed as routine and at the moment we can't really afford private, but I suppose waiting til dec at least gives the reflexology a chance
my reflexology is tuesday! will let you know what i think
Cripes Orhergoes,that would be too much for superwoman!!
Sorry my dose was 100mg not 10mg!
We are expecting a girl though so does not fit with the theory!
I wonder if in fact I ever had a short LP and whether I was just ovulating earlier than I thought and the OPKs were misleading me? I never temped but my advice would be go for the early shags.
I also have a retroverted uterus which is not a problem in itself but read that DTD doggy style helps and you should not raise your knees but lie on your tummy instead after sex. That also did the trick!
Good luck to all in search of the BFPs!
Lots of ideas here! I read about soy isoflavones. Can you buy them in holland and barratt? It is so nice to hear that people can get there and conceive xx
Farfallarocks where did you buy the b6 from, I could only find vitamin b complex tabs this week and they only have 1.4 micrograms of b6.
Enjoy your reflexology christelle. Really hope it helps.
I have acupuncture booked for Tuesday so excited, felling more positive. Have felt very sad recently, but this thread has given me a little hope. Thank you.
Hi blackrocked I take vit b complex from holland and Barrett ( mega-B 100) It has 100 mg of b6 in it also has all the other b vits b1, b2,b12, it's in a blue bottle if that helps
Christelle - so I have tried b6 and acupuncture and all have failed to raise my LP . It will not budge from 10-11 days although clomid successfully gave me an 8 day Lp which is the exact opposite of what it should do. In the last 2 years I have 2 12 day LPs and these have both been months where I had extraordinary period pain for days before so I think they were chemical pregnancies.
I have seen many people over the years and this is what I have been told about progesterone levels. A level of 26 confirms ovulation but the nhs says above 30 is normal. However my gynae always wanted above 40 and my acupuncturist wanted above 50. My first test showed 30 and that's why I thought I was having problems. However, subsequent prog tests have shown my levels at 55 and 44 and still I have a short LP. I even had progesterone pessaries when I was doing IuI and this didn't seem to do anything to the LP.
I went and saw some Sri Lankan guy at the start of the year and he asked me whether I had sore breasts. I said they were excruciating after ovulation. He said I needed natural progesterone cream because it was showing I was oestrogen dominant. He made me buy a book on the menopause as it had an excellent info on progesterone. I wasn't too happy about having this book on my bedside table! So for the first 3 months I was running the cream in from days 10-26. This could affect ovulation but his point was I needed to build up my prog levels before ovulation. My breasts went from 10 days of pain to 5. After a few months I started rubbing the cream in after ovulation until period. So my health prog test levels were all done when I was on this cream. I wonder whether it made a difference although my acupuncturist said the cream would do nothing for my levels. One month I had zero breast pain and this was a month I had a 12 day LP and am certain it was a chemical preg. However still the cream had no affect on my LP most months! I have been off it for several months now and I notice breast pain is progressively getting worse and so will start it up again. But if you take it , make sure it is natural and not synthetic. I used kokoro balancing cream and the idea is to balance your hormones.
Anyway for me I think the Lp may have been a bit of a red herring. I am waiting for a laparascopy and hysteo next month and then My first ivf appt is in Nov. No doctor seems to think it is significant that I got pregnant straight away when we first started trying. My cycles shortened considerably after the m/c and this breast pain started and cycles haven't gone back to how they were. Personally i think that is significant. I suspect there is an immune issue going on and the Lp doesn't help. My amh level has fallen so badly in 18months from satisfactory to very low that I now just can't wait around. Nearly 33 and started all this at 30!
Anyway, it is worth badgering GPs for a referral. I have done monitoring cycles on the nhs and this should give you a better idea of what is going on. People with low prog levels do get pregnant and can go on to have healthy pregnancies but I am of the understanding that it makes things a bit more difficult.
Congratulation Farfallarocks and others who got there!
Blackrod - are low basal temps significant? Mine go below 36.0 before ovulation. I also have low blood pressure and I assume this is the reason why I am always cold. Is this another thing to add to my list of worries?!
Soy Isoflavones also worked for me. I was ovulating on day 20 of a 26 day cycle. First time trying Soy I got a very strong ovulation on day 10. I took them like clomid for 5 days upping my dose each time.
Wow joycep thanks for sharing your story. i also have low bp and am always cold- interesting coincidence.
sounds like you've had a really hard time of things- hope you get clear answers and/or bfp soon.
am now worried about progesterone levels and temp which has not risen much this cycle yet...think there could be a link there.
soy iso. being ordered today
wow- did you get pg?
Sorry you have been battling for so long Joycep. I tried the progesterone pesaries too but they did nothing for me. I also had low blood pressure and temps. Wonder if there is a thyroid or adrenal glands link? Prob is with thyroid that Nhs have set levels of norm which don't feel normal for everyone.
Other egos thanks for the info on B6, I am going into the city next week to have a look!
Joycep I am six years into trying after being told it will happen, I have one child, I sought help at about age 35 as first child conceived at 32 and born aged 33. Last desperate attempt, so looking at all avenues. A book I have taking charge of your fertility by Toni Weschler suggests that sometimes low Basal temp can be a sign of hypothyroidism, and I have several other symptoms, although having said that had a lot of blood tests in the last year for infections that I cannot shake off. I have never smoked, moderate drinker, I exercise,have a BMI of 23, all in absolute vain so far. The stories on here give me a flicker of hope, and ultimately I have one beautiful child for which I am eternally grateful. I never though the process would be so soul wrenching! Stay Determined xx
Joycep I am glad you are getting a cycle of IVF and at 33 you are still young with excellent knowledge of your system. Being well informed is so important. Best wishes from the bottom of my heart with this.
Well after AF basal was 36.2 ....two days of drinking milk, which DH says is poppycock and basal is 36.4. I am chilling out more as always anxious and buzzed with no stimulus!
I was on this thread back in 2011 and I'm afraid I don't have a good news story to share, but like Joycep I suspect my short LP of 9-11 days is not the reason we're not getting pregnant. I have had 7dpo progesterone tests and they have always been 60+ indicating ovulation and 'conditions conducive to ovulation'! The only thing that gives me a longer LP are progesterone pessaries from the doc (taken during a recent failed FET cycle). Otherwise, I can categorically say that the following did nothing for my lp:
- Agnus castus
- B vits
- Reflexology and acupuncture
- Chinese herbs
I had an IVF cycle in April but developed OHSS so didn't make it to embryo transfer stage sadly. I had my first frozen embryo transfer (2 x blastocysts) in Aug and it failed. My next bite at the cherry will be in Oct/Nov (I'm ridiculously lucky to have another 6 in the freezer).
I do find the theory of ' ovulating before the sticks say so' interesting- one monitored cycle I had a scan on cd14 which showed a corpus luteum ( ovulation ) but I continued to get ewcm and only got a pos OPK on cd 17. The sonographer couldn't explain it. And we have been guilty of only doing the do after the + opk on several cycles... Ho hum. X
So sorry to hear that MrsHY1. Here's hoping the next step for you is successful. Iam off to Tesco to buy some soy isoflavones....that have 40mg soy in each tab. Think medical doors may not be open to me any longer, but heading to the docs with a a temping graph next week.
Very sorry mrshy1 that you dont have bfp yet. fx for your next cycle.
blackrocked let me know how much the SI were- look expensive on the net. none in sainsburys.
Hi all thank you everyone for sharing your stories, fx everyone who hasn't already gets their bfp soon. What dose isoflavones is everyone getting/taking. I'm seriously considering getting some, I'm on cd 17 no sign of ov yet but it didn't happen until cd 77 last cycle, I'm just impatient! Christelle, do let me know how your reflexology goes and what you thought of it, is your app tomorrow?
Had an appointment with acupuncturist who suggested we try for a short time and track cycles. Think I may also try Chinese herbs, has anyone had any luck with these? Haven't got to Tesco yet Christelle, but will let you know as the dosages seem to vary and holland and barratt dosages are not what I want them to be. Feeling very relaxed, cycles seem to be more stable recently so perhaps perhaps perhaps. I am every hopeful.
so went to reflexology last night. An easy sell for me because I love foot rubs also through my health insurance I can claim back the cost of the first two sessions.
Anyway, overall thoughts very positive. Extremely relaxing, so much so that I struggled to stay awake. She rubs your feet and puts pressure on them in such a way that I felt tingles in the rest of my body. She said she could feel some "inbalances" in my hormones and also my colon (I was very bloated yesterday) which the therapy is meant to help. Although yesterday I was between ovulation and period, she said the best time to go and see her is between period and ovulation where she can help make sure things are balanced out nicely for ovulation - though not sure how that would improve my luteal phase.
Overall I'm not convinced it can help me get pg but can easily believe that it may have other benefits, such as relaxing me more and possibly having a positive effect on my hormones and cycle which may indirectly help.
The woman I went to see specialises in fertility reflexology incidentally and claims to have helped get lots of couples pg. She clearly understands fertility so better to go and see someone who specialises in these things (there are lots about) rather than a generalist.
In other news, I saw my gp about my (borderline) underactive thyroid, which I've only just twigged may be another issue. My level was 5.3 a few month ago and have been retested to see if any worse. A borderline level may affect fertility though it's not really clear how. Anyway when I see the consultant I can discuss going on thyroxin apparently to see if that helps - is reasonably commonly used for borderline underactivity when couples can't conceive apparently.
Hi Blackrod - I have that Taking Charge of Your Fertility. It is good. It now sits in my huge library of fertility books . I have had my thyroid tested quite a few times, I was convinced i had a problem with that because of how cold i get. Thanks for the good wishes. I am so sorry about how long you have been trying as well. It's so strange considering how easily you had your first child. I have every hope that it will happen for you again. Also i have started with a new acupuncturist and she is great. She has put me on Woman's Treasure by Seven Forests. I am on 8 of these things today. Not entirely sure what they do but she says they are for fertility. I think they help with digestion. She believes I have stagnation, weak spleen and i think she is right. I am sure it won't get me pregnant but I think it all helps in getting the body and mind in to a better place.
MrsHY - I was wondering how you were getting on. I'm really sorry about your last cycle but that's a fab number of frosties you have. Wow! I do think that this can be a numbers game and so i am wishing you the best of luck for the next FET. Interesting that you could be ovulating before the sticks say. When I go for my scans, they show my follies to be ripe around day 12 yet i don't ovulate until day 16ish. One theory from one gynae was that my release mechanism isn't good. But it's exhausting thinking about everything that could be wrong as nothing is concrete!
Would be interested to hear how people get along with the isos.
christelle, x post, that 's good about the reflexology and it's not a bad way to spend an hour, having a foot rub!
Thyroid problems are notorious for causing fertility problems even if it is slighly underactive. I believe it can interfere with ovulation. So this may be the key for you. I think there was a thread on MN somewhere about conceiving with thyroid issues and so you may garner some more info from that thread. But remember it can be easily controlled and if you get it treated that could balance out the rest of your hormones. Part of this process is just trying to find out what is wrong...and many people go on to get pregnant whilst still trying to find out. So best of luck!!
I agree joycep and christelle on the body and mind. I tend to get very stressed and internalise things. The treatment is the first time for a long time I have sat still in the daytime and emptied my mind of thought! It was unabounded fabulousness!
I think I might be ovulating earlier, am on b6, daily handful of brazil nuts and the isoflavones, but the dose is a lot lower than I would like to try.
My stomach seems more settled than ever, so perhaps the B6 is doing me some good! I so hope so! Thins thread has given me a glimmer of hope. Thank you.
Hi, just thought my story might be useful, my LP is on average about a week, pregnant first try twice.
its a ball ache because HCPs do not believe your dates (both of mine I was sure of when I OVed as testing, and scans confirmed MY dates) and this time I was told I wasn't pregnant at all and was MCing and should get over my denial (based on blood tests I kept saying that I was just LESS preganant than they thought I should be)
some DRs believe you when you say you OV at week 3, then write down that your cycle is 5 weeks (mine is 4), and refuse to accept that both can be true!
its so frustrating, basically I find that if you do concieve when you OV, the following 2 weeks are not different from anyone else's two weeks post conception!
I never attempted to change my cycles
If you do get a BFP its very important to have a dating scan so that your 12 week scan is booked for the proper window, My current MW agreed with me when I said that I wished I'ld just lied and added a week onto my LMP!
halloweeney thanks so much for the positive story. That's great news that it clearly is very possible to conceive with a 1 week LP. And I often wondered how, if I got pg, that would affect my dates, assumed that I would be a week behind what is considered normal.
So update from me is that I do have an underactive thyroid (hypothyroid). Am now seriously naffed off. My tsh levels have been 5/6 for a couple of years, I got retested the other day and I am now 8, which is not disastrous in itself but I had to push to be put on levothyroxin (gp insists on starting me off on a meagre 25mcg) which I've now started taking. I specifically asked if this would affect ttc, and indeed pregnancy, and was told "probably not". However extensive googling has told me that the answer is "almost certainly yes" and that it can affect ovulation and also the LP. Plenty of advice on the web that ttcers should aim for a tsh of between 1 and 2, and that my kind of levels could affect baby if I got pg. Gp has known that I have been borderline underactive for a while and struggling ttc yet didn't put 2 and 2 together. And she is pg herself!!
Also annoyed with myself that I didn't see the link earlier either. So now I suppose I need to focus on getting my tsh down, so perhaps ttc will be on hold .
Bloods to be retested in 6 weeks. Other than pushing for higher dose of thyroxin if it has not gone down enough, not sure what else I can do for now. I think if I can bring down the tsh my outlook may be much better :-)
Read one story about a woman who took 5 years to find out that her issue wa her thyroid, once she started treatment she conceived relatively quickly. So I would urge anyone struggling ttc to get thyroid level checked, particularly if a low LP as there appears to be a link between the two, albeit not very well understood. What is much better understood however is the link between hypothyroid and miscarriage/developmental problems in pregnancy which is why i am astonished that the gp, knowing I was ttc, did not do anything sooner.
Anyway, rant over.
I am also borderline hyperthyroid
there is no way I could have TTCed when I was in a low phase though, couldn't work never mind have the giggly-wiggly! So I didn't TTC when I was suffering badly with that, it was only after I felt a bit better that I would consider sex and pregnancy etc
I went on a strict whole food diet which helped a lot, and cut out environmental endocrine disrupters as much as possible (changed to organic non scented non everything else cosmetics, used home made cleaning products etc) Jillian Michaels book Mastering your metabolism was very useful. She's hypothyroid herself and on meds but also used diet to manage it
I didn't go on levo. My GP (an ex endocrinologist) says that my normal limits are different to the average 90% of the population that the norm is based on, so at the bottom of normal I am actually very low and very symptomatic. He did offer me levo but I was beginning to come out of that low so wanted to see how much better I could get first.
I also have trouble with retaining iron and was put on tranexamic acid the month we started TTCing but I got pregnant that month so wasn't taking it long enough to make any sort of difference.
Not sure if thyroid is something I have had checked, but will on Monday as going to the GP then and asking for a copy of all that has happened so far. Christelle I am so sorry to hear it will hold up TTC and hope the dosage does make a difference x halloweeny thanks for your story and brilliant news for short lts! Mine varies and so I have ordered a new basal thermometer...to check once more. Progesterone cream has arrived and have read to use from day of ovulation until AF. Will check with GP too.
If there is thyroid involvement temp tracking may not work so well as hypothyroidism affects your temperatures (gives you lower ones) and AFAIK can also affect your CM giving you EWCM for much more of the month than normal???
Yes i have also read this but my temps are ok- mind you i have much more luck with temps since i switched to a f rathee than c therm. Pattern much easier to see
yes do get your thyroid checked and don't accept "it's normal" unless your tsh is between 1 and 2.
I will ask about this tomorrow as do have random patches of EWCM, and I'd wondered why....interesting. Thank you ladies, my eyes are being opened x
Doctor was an absolute dead end for me. however.....through my own work I am now on luteal phase day 11! Not been this long since before my first child, so 6.5 years!
Halloweenyqueeeny it's really interesting you say that about the so called normal levels not actually being normal for you because I think it was always the same for me. My GP would say I was in the normal range, just, but all of my symptoms pointed to that not being good enough for me. Sooo frustrating.
Toto if you are like me then it is important to go to the doc for a blood test when you are NOT feeling symptomatic to get a baseline of what you are like when functioning well, so that when you are low for you but not across the low threshold, your doc can see that you are low for you!
Do you get blood tests done privately, as my doctor would not do any?
I would go back and see different doc and insist. gps dont get the link between ttc and thyroid function. are you getting referred to fertility clinic?
i had my hsg this morning. not nice. pictures at least confirmed no blocked tubes. congrats on a longer lp!! what did you take- progesterone?
no NHS but luckily my GP is an ex endocrinologist and was keen to assess my personal baseline rather than taking single tests in isolation, you are always entitled to a second opinion under the NHS
Thank you for your replies. I will get a second opinion. I took 100mg B6 daily, soy isoflavones 1 daily holland and barratt for the first part of my cycle, I am using a progesterone cream once a day Now Solutions 20mg, am on Chinese herbs and having acupuncture. I know I sound desperate, but I am. I will be 40 in the next year.
The only good thing in my life for the past few years have been my DH and DS. I have had some very stressful events, and now they have passed, but not until they took their toll on my health for the past four years. Perhaps a combination of the above has contributed to my infertility.
Now things have settled down, perhaps I will have a chance.
Hello! Can I pick your brains, please?
Me 44, DS 2, gradually ceased bf-ing and finally stopped last month. 6 cycles so far, initially LP 9 days, ovulation around cd20, 5th cycle took agnus castus and B6 and that cycle got ovulation cd23; bit bothered so didn't bother 6th cycle and got ovulation cd17, 13 day LP acording to fffriend ( though I think 11 days) and a chemical pregnancy.
So, do I bother with the herbs now?? [''temporal association does not prove causality'']
I think you know that we dont know the answer. I would however be tempted to carry on with AC until you finish the tub.
Sorry about your cp.
I'm new to this thread and I was wondering if I could pick some brains too. I'm 35. TTC nearly 2 years. 0 DC. A few months ago my cycles increased from 29 to about 32 days. And based on what I thought was ov pain that was happening around CD23. I have other LPD symptoms. I've started on the complex B vits and think I got my LP to 11. Anyway this month I tried opk for the first time to check if pain is ov. I only got 7. I've used 6. 5 were negative and 1 error. I'm not seeing ewcm and am wondering if there is another problem. I live abroad and can't buy opks here. Been ordering from Amazon. Is it worth trying AC or progesterone cream too when I place my next order? Wondering if I should save the last test for when I think I'm ov'ing? I'm on CD19 at the moment.
Had hsg 2 weeks ago, wasn't too bad and finally saw the consultant today, this is after being referred to the clinic in February! Bit of an anticlimax really, didn't feel he really listened to my issues (short LP - currently about 8 days) and also underactive thyroid (TSH of about 8). Anyway the good (?) news is that he's basically given me 6 months of clomid (50mg dose) to get rid of me I think. I have to be monitored with scans the first time (which should be interesting) then just to get on with it. Interestingly he didn't think my thyroid would be a problem. I've read enough on the internet though to be convinced that there's a good chance it could be, but that's a separate battle to have with the gp who so far seems fine to medicate me with levothyroxin. Didn't dismiss my short LP - admitted that it may be an issue and said that clomid should regulate things. Hmm. I shall report back but interested in any stories of clomid making you ovulate earlier, I currently ovulate around day 18.
Sorry mrs can't really help only to say that I never got on well with OPKs. Many months I did not get a positive at all even though I think I ovulated, the surge could only last a few hours so you could miss it, you need to do at least 2 a day. Get the really cheap ones on amazon or ebay from home health then you can POAS as much as you like but even if you don't get positives don't assume you are not ovulating. I recommend though taking temperature which will then at least tell you that you have ovulated. Do DTD every other day though between days 10 and 20. Consultant told me that 2-3 times a week during that time is good.
Hi christelle2207! That's good news about the clomid, I'm sure it won't be long now until you get your BFP! Fingers crossed for you. update from me, I'm due to go for my 3rd reflexology session tomorrow, not sure if it will have an impact an my cycles, but I really enjoy it so am going to continue . I'm cd 47! No sign of ov yet, still taking vit b agnus catus. My gynae app in dec has been postponed until jan by the hospital but I suppose it gives me a bit longer to see if everything else works on my lp. Had day 21 progesterone levels which were 0, not really surprised really, but will get some more done 7 days after my next +ve opk. Good luck with the clomid, keep us posted
Just wanted to update, have been deliberately quite silent for a while.
not long after my last post, in early November I actually conceived and am now 11 weeks pg.
I conceived on my first cycle of clomid - my antenatal scan shows that I conceived around day 12 - this is compared with day 17ish of a normal 27 or so day cycle. So although I never got to learn what my LP would have been that month, clearly ovulating earlier than usual that month worked for me. I can't believe how lucky I was on clomid. Also at play I think were my underactive thyroid, which by the time I conceived was a lot better than previously, not long before I conceived my TSH was 5.5 and since then I've had my medication increased and a couple of weeks ago it was down to 2.1. The third factor (possibly!) was that I had a reflexology session a few days before I ended up conceiving, apparently the best time of the month to have it.
So there you go, clomid definitely can help some women with lp problems! Best of luck to all. xxx
That's fantastic news , congrats! I was just wondering about this thread just the other day! I'm on cd 125! Which is a record for me. I've now seen gynae and got appointments for a hsg and ultrasound scan, then follow up appointment in April. Still having reflexology which I really enjoy and find relaxing. When are you due? I'm so pleased for you! Take it easy and enjoy your pregnancy
6th aug! thanks. youll have to go through the motions and have scan and hsg(fine) but when you get there push for clomid!
Hi I have a question as I'm pretty sure my lp is about 10/11 days and wondered if the soy isaflavones sp? Will help? Anyone know? How much should I take? Also if I was to try the cough medicine that increases cm when do I take that and how much?
I'm so glad I've stumbled across this. I've been ttc #1 for 1 year 2 months. I've been charting temperatures for the last 8 months and realised that although my cycles are all over the place - anything from 24 to 37 days, my luteal phase appears to consistently be 8 days. I was actually quite glad of this at first as it meant that although my cycles were irregular, I wasn't spending 2 weeks convinced I might be pregnant each time I had a long cycle once I'd identified my ovulation day. I've only just realised that a short LP could be a bad thing (.
I went to the GP in December as soon as I'd waited a year of trying (I'm 33, 34 soon), had the examination and blood tests on day 1 and day 21. They called to say the progesterone was too low on day 21 but I knew from my charts I hadn't actually ovulated by then so went back for day 28. My partner has been for the sperm analysis as well but it took 3 weeks to get that appointment then we had to wait 3 weeks for the results so we've got an appointment to go in together next week.
I started using the CBFM this cycle, which confirmed the day I thought I was ovulating (I had the usual symptoms plus a temperature surge the next day) but I sometimes have a random temperature drop for a day during the LP, so my fertility friend app marked that I'd ovulated two days after I think I did.
I've also only just realised that not having consistently high temps post ovulation can also be a bad sign!! The irregular cycles, short LP and temp dips are not painting a great picture!!
Fingers crossed I find out something useful from my GP appointment next week. At least now I can voice my concerns about my short LP and see if she can act on it.
Also really glad to find this thread! I seem to have a 6-7 day LP.
Does anyone know about using progesterone for short LP? I get the impression online that it's prescribed in the States - depending on results of a post ovulatory scan that can help determine why you have a short LP. However, my GP (in the UK) says that that you can't see anything useful from a post ovulatory scan. Anyone have any experience?
After waiting months for appoinment with specialist consultant thinking we'd finally get to talk everything through, he didn't want to look at my charts and wasn't interested that my 21 day blood came before ovulation according to OPKs and charts. He seems uninterested in whether or not I'm ovulating. He prescribed Clomid (to start after hsg). I'm really pleased to hear Christelle's story as gives me a sign that despite my consultant not listening /asking anything, the course of treatment he gave could be effective. So OK, maybe they don't need to know details in order to know Clomid is the best chance - but talk about lack of personal skills!!!
Also, confused about charting and OPKs now. I've charted for over a year and the picture is consistent. But 3 doctors have told me charting is unreliable and two of them said OPKs are - in fact one of them said OPKs can do more damage than good as it means you time intercourse according to them. Meaning some couples who for whatever reason are getting misleading readings miss their fertile days every month!! Any thoughts?
Hi QuietNinja - I haven't tried soy isaflavones but I did use B6 for a number of months with only effect being an annovulatory cycle (I had until then only really concentrated on the positive posts about that approach and after that I went back online and saw the negatives too - a bit confusing as some swear by it). So after that I decided given my age (38) I needed to fast track into the health system instead of trying the natural way any longer.
I also have sometimes have lowish temps in my post ovulatory phase and have been wondering if that is bad news. Are yours below coverline or just dangerously close?
How did your appointment with GP go?
And one last post for now (you can see how delighted I am to have someone to talk to about this!!) - can anyone recommend a good accupuncturist in London? Thanks
Hi goose! It's been like tumbleweed in here, I posted over 2 months ago!! (and I've changed my name since, it's H313n).
I've now seen the nurse at the fertility clinic and she said my short LP will be sorted out with clomid which the doctor will prescribe when I go back after my HSG and internal scan. That appointment won't be until July . So I decided to try the B6 this cycle. On cd10 and don't usually O until cd19 at the earliest, usually later, so too early to tell whether it's done anything. fx it doesn't stop O completely....
Oh, and yes, sometimes I get a dip below covering post O.
Can I recommend you join the Elderberry thread in conception? There are a few of us in there with short LP's and we're all over 30 and have been trying a while (I'm on cycle 17 now). It's very friendly and you don't get the tumbleweed of waiting 2 months for a reply!
Hi - really great to get an answer so quickly - I will definitely look up the Elderberry thread. Why so long til your next appointment? I'm worried now, my consultant sent me away to call for an appointment for HSG on first day of my next cycle but didn't make me another appointment to see him afterwards or, now I come to think of it, tell me whether that is the next step or how to request the appointment (through GP again? or just ring hospital?)
What's the internal scan? The day 13 ultrasound or something else?! Thanks!
I went to the gp in December having been ttc a year and by the time we'd had the blood tests done and SA and got the results back and had an appointment with the GP (only the one who can refer you to the fertitility clinic apparently) it was February. It took almost 3 months to get the appointment after the referral, and that was just to see the nurse, who takes all your information again, explains the next steps, and then ticks the box to refer you on for an appointment with the doctor, which is another 3 month wait!! I saw the nurse on spotting day 2 of this cycle which was soooo annoying as I wasn't due on until the following day, so I could have called up to book my HSG the next day!! Anyway, same as you I'm waiting for next CD1 to call up and book the HSG and they are doing the internal scan (which is like an ultrasound but they stick the thing up inside you to get a closer look) just before the appointment with the doctor so I don't have to make an extra trip to the hospital. The nurse warned me that depending on who is doing the HSG, I may or may not be told anything on the day, I might have to wait until I see the doctor in July before hearing whether they found any problems with my tubes etc.
Are you ttc your first? I just assumed, as you didn't mention the LP as a new problem.
Would love to join the Elderberry group by the way - but I can't find the newest thread - could you post a link?
I am TTC my first, 38, but trying since 34 - have been incredibly head in the sand about it (not helped by my bf now fiance's theory that age makes no difference at all!!) - it's just hitting me, now that I'm staring at Clomid followed by IVF, that this isn't all necessarily going to work out rosy! Gulp.
So we're pretty much at same stage in diagnosis/treatment. I'll ask when book HSG whether they are doing internal scan, I presume so. How do you know that your next appointment with the doctor (as in consultant rather than your GP?) is in July? I don't have a date or know what I'm meant to do post HSG!
You have an 8 day LP and a fairly long cycle? Mine LP is 6-7 days in a 21-28 day cycle.
Did your 28 day progesterone blood show up as ovulatory? I had a cycle 21 test that was non ovulatory but as it was on the day I ovulated according to my chart I asked them to send me back for another. So I've just had three this cycle and waiting for the results...
Can't believe by the way that you had an extra step in there of seeing the nurse, that's a bit of a nightmare. The doctor referred me and it took 3 months but I saw doc.
As my name suggests, I've been inspired by all your stories to get more proactive in my treatment and to try and get to the bottom of this LPD business once and for all! So I thought I'd start by sharing my story:
I turned 41 in January and am extremely fortunate to have a 19-month old who was conceived very easily when I was almost 39. Back then, my cycles were textbook and I only needed to use EWCM to know when to do the deed! I've been TTC #2 since AF returned a year ago without success. I never have EWCM, just the wet, transparent type (2nd best type apparently, but still), which I have for most of my follicular phase, so it doesn't help pinpoint ovulation. I always ovulate (as determined by positive OPKs and subsequent temp shift), BUT my luteal phase always has a few low temps (sometimes below the coverline and often thereabouts) as well as spotting (not just brown, but fresh blood). This can all start as early as 3 dpo (!) Admittedly, my total luteal phase, until full flow, is reasonable, at 11-14 days, but the spotting and especially the below coverline temps before that mean that I already know I'm 'out' for that cycle for most of the luteal phase and can never get my hopes up or get to the stage of taking a pregnancy test.
As for diagnosis / treatment, I had to be TTC for 6 months to be seen. Then I had day 3 blood work, which was fine (don't know actual results) and normal thyroid hormone level (again, no numbers). They did ultrasound follicle tracing twice and everything looked fine, including state of uterus. I even had two follicles on of those months, not that this helped with my LPD symptoms (theory is that two corpus lutea should produce twice as much progesterone). They prescribed 3 months' of oral progesterone and told me to come back if still not pregnant or if no change in symptoms. I gave it two months and there was no change. Still got post-o temp dips and 4/5 days of spotting (after which I stopped the progesterone and then full flow soon followed). So am not happy to continue for another month, especially after what I've read on here about it being better to go straight to Clomid or perhaps even IVF. Besides, research shows that progesterone supplements do not increase pregnancy rates in women with LPD who aren't having IVF. I have appointment on Monday to discuss next step so am arming myself with info from your good selves to make sure I don't get fobbed off.
The stuff I've tried to reduce the LPD symptoms are Vitamin B6, agnus castus (tried it for one month, but seemed to make things worse), Vitamin C, acupuncture (only had it twice though) and yoga. And of course preconception multivitamin. We also use preseed in case the lack of EWCM was the problem. However, nothing has helped, perhaps because my problem is low temps and spotting rather than a short luteal phase and most of those vitamins showed an increase in LP length. I should add that sometimes my temp stays high for quite a few days after menses starts, which the acupuncturist said was even worse than the post-o dips (though I don't know why). Interesting what was said in earlier post about consultant looking at ultrasound and then saying acupuncture not likely to be useful. Could this be because acupuncture supposedly increases blood flow to uterus, so if uterus already looks good with a thick lining (as it also did for me), acupuncture may not be useful? Just a guess.
Hope this info is helpful to some of you. FYI, the paper that says progesterone supplements are not helpful for LPD (unless as part of IVF) is from the American Society for Reproductive Medicine ('The Clinical Relevance of Luteal Phase Deficiency'). It also says that day 21 proegesterone level tests and endometrial biopsy tests are not useful in diagnosing LPD, so I don't mind that I didn't get those and won't push for them. However, it also says that BBT charting is unreliable, which I don't agree with. Trouble is you can't ensure that people are using a good thermometer, doing it the same time each day and so on. If you do it right, it tells you loads. Good luck to all of you.
Thank you for your post Gettingproactive. I found it really helpful. I have low progesterone but my other hormones came back ok. I was taking B6 but ironically I didn't ovulate last month which is when I started taking it. Could be related or could not. Who knows? I am not going to take it this month anyway and see what my next blood tests show. If they come back as low progesterone then we get referred. We are TTC#2 too.
I also found i didnt ovulate after few months of b6, could just be coincidence of course. On tcoyf site moderator said its not a good idea.
Not sure if this thread is dead now? I sure need to be on here still, 8 day LP tops and GP doesn't believe in LP defects.
Hey totes I need to be on this thread too. In fact, one of the ladies on the other board suggested this thread - we have another thread running - guinea pig for natural progesterone. Basically, I'm lucky if I get 8-9 days luteal phase and going through the motions of trying all the alternative remedies whilst passing time before gp takes me seriously. Cycle 6 at the mo Ttc, but had this pattern for longer. Done b6 for a while, this month trying Angus castus to see if I can pull ovulation forward ( normally around day 19-29 of 26-28 day cycle).
Sounds like there's quite a few of us struggling with this. I'm Ttc number 2 so docs don't want to know until its been a year. I'm debating pushing for bloods in next few cycles to check progesterone levels. I have a natural prog supplement but put off using it for a few cycles, until get blood work done.
Anyway, fairly pointless post other to to say in the same, extremely frustrating boat, totally fed up with body not playing ball and very little I can do about it. Nice to know there are others out there, but also sorry you're struggling with the same issue. Hopefully we will get some good news soon!
I am TTC#2 too and before DS my LP was 12 days so on the short side, but nowt major.
So frustrating as I thought we were meant to be more fertile post bebe, not less!?
I haven't tried agnus castus and dabbled with B6 but heard you were meant to take it only after ovulation or it can interfere with it and I took it for a month the whole way through.
I had my progesterone tested over two months. Doc said count back 7 days from when ERTD is due and get tested. I obliged and had very low progesterone tests back (7.2 and 5.4) and doc said I didn't ovulate either month. BUT, since I got ovulation pain the day before the blood test happened (and have worked out through BBT that I OV around day 18 of a 25 day cycle) I am now not convinced that the tests were not of any use, being 1DPO as opposed to 7 DPO, BUT, doc obviously won't believe that I could ovulate that late so I am banging my head against a brick wall.
Have you looked into soy isoflavines. Some folks swear by them but I have read mixed things about taking them. I think it can tip the balance and make matters worse in some cases so I am reluctant to take them without being under some instruction
I may however get desperate
Also, I would be really interested to know how everyone else on here is getting on...
Hi totes I know, it's so frustrating! I think it's working out the timings that puts me off being pushier re bloods. It seems ( tentatively, as waiting for bbt to rise) that I may be ovulating earlier this month, day 17 as opposed to 19/20), will just have to wait be see if lp comes forward too, or if this gives me a couple of extra days.
Hi Springbells and Totes, I'm ttc1 and have a 7 day LP. GPs/Gyneas variously don't think that exist or that it doesn't effect fertility. After day21 progesterone test came back non-ovulatory I insisted on having another test later in cycle and sure enough it was higher and indicated I had ovulated just late.
I've given up on getting a diagnosis as basically the treatment seems to be the same (Clomid) whether or not ovulating properly and whether or not a short luteal phase exists/matters. Of course I may be wrong about this but that's what I've gleaned from my very hurried appointments!! Not sure how quickly they get you onto Clomid if your TTC2 though.
I did try B6 but it seemed to stop me ovulating. I did take it throughout month though and quite a high dose, so perhaps I was taking too much. I've heard a few success stories with it.
How's it going on the Progesterone thread?
Hi all! Well I went privately as the doc said to me to do OPKs for a few months and I am impatient! Anyway, we are going to do follicle tracking next month to see what is going on. Gyno thinks I might be overcooking the egg and either not releasing it or something else...can't quite remember. If not releasing it then I need an injection. If something else then I need progesterone. Anyway, he basically said a short LP is not right...it means something is wrong as if body is working at optimum then LP should be approx two weeks.
We wait and see....tracking due next month. In the meantime, DS has given us a rough few nights so took tired to obsess over it this month!!
Gooey - if you want to, I can recommend my gyno wholeheartedly. He is based in London and although he is private, you an say to him that you are pay as you go and he tries to keep costs down.
Thought I would give a quick update.
Changed doctor in the end (said straight out that I wasn't happy with first one and wanted 2nd opinion) and new doctor was 100 times nicer and more competent. Admitted she cannot solve my LPD, so in view of that, plus my age, plus TTC for 1 year, it's straight to IVF. Also found out my FSH was 9.9, so not totally normal as first doctor had said, but a bit elevated. Grrr! So now I am far more concerned about my age and egg quality than any LPD problems, which supposedly don't get in the way of IVF. Anyway, I am not getting hopes up too much as the chances aren't great at my age, but at least it's the best treatment. Ironically enough, I had the first normal cycle last month since TTC. I did not take the progesterone supplements any more, but I had no post-ovulation temp dips, a 14 day luteal phase and only 2-3 days of premenstrual spotting. Don't know whether the progesterone just had a delayed effect at balancing my hormones or it was a freak good cycle or it was a result of the yoga + acupuncture + vitamins B6, C and coenzyme q10 (recently added q10 as supposed to help with egg quality and general cell health, especially before IVF).
Good luck to all of you. I really agree with Totes about the importance of finding a good, sympathetic doctor. I showed the new doctor my spreadsheet of cycle length, LP length, days of spotting etc and she said it was very useful and photocopied it for my notes! Dealing with someone like that gives you so much more hope and really reduces anxiety.
Thanks for updating Gettingproactive and although the IVF path is a major thing, I am glad that you don't have to faff around anymore getting frustrated with unsympathetic docs. Good luck!
Not sure anyone is still reading this thread apart from Totes but got some news that was so important, I felt I had to share. As I said in previous posts, I recently switched doctors and the new doctor ordered me an ultrasound with saline injection. There are a few cases where small polyps can be seen on these having been missed on normal vaginal ultrasound. Sure enough, this was true for me! So they removed the polyps last week under hysteroscopy guidance and predict that my premenstrual spotting will be gone. Could kick myself because the wonderful blog by Dr Licciardi does say that polyps are #1 cause of spotting, but I thought that if I'd had them, they'd have been seen on my regular ultrasounds. So if anyone's main problem is spotting, I really would urge you to get the saline ultrasound and/or hysteroscopy. I still must have had an LPD up til a few months ago because the polyps don't explain the post-ovulation temperature dips, but in my last few charts, there were no dips, so I guess that problem must have gone away. Maybe I just needed a bit longer than most people to get my hormones balanced again after pregnancy / breast-feeding. Unfortunately, the polyps were deemed too small to have explained my failure to conceive, so the diagnosis for me is still age-related infertility with not much chance of conceiving even with the IVF, but at least I now have a clearer picture of where I stand.
Thanks for the update! That is great news. I know they say they are insignificant but it all counts as little steps to getting things in better shape down there. I have my tracking next week. Tried OPKs this month and never saw an LH surge so that ties in with the theory that I am not ovulating.
Thanks Totes - it's so nice to have some support from the virtual world! How did the tracking go? I never used to get a surge with the OPKs the first few months of TTC, but now I get surges for up to 3-4 days in a row, which is probably worse (like high FSH, high LH levels can be a sign of ovarian decline). I would recommend doing two tests a day, as you can miss it if testing only every 24 hrs. There are very cheap multipacks of OPK sticks on Amazon.
Hello totes and getting, good to see you're making progess. I got bolshy recently, and demanded (nicely!) blood tests to see whats going on. Unsuprisingly first test came back annovulatory - and just like goosey i 'suggested' that the should be done later, as fairly sure i do ovulate, just v late. Still waiting for those results and watching this space on lp. I binned b6 and agnus this month to give get a true bloods picutre, so waiting to see what happens. 9dpo here, which is unheard of, so if i can make it to 10dpo I'll be happier. Hope it all goes well with the ivf, getting, and with tracking, totes.
Good to hear the updates as it def gives hope.
Well basically I am relatively new to all of this, but I've noticed in two cycles I seem to have what is called a short luteal phase. I've never noticed before (as I didn't try to conceive with my first, it wasn't planned) but now I am trying, since googling it, it seems so far i have this.
For example this cycle I ovulated clearly strong positives on the 22nd of July and 23rd. Yesterday I had small pink amounts of discharge and brown on a tissue when wiping in the morning, at first I was quite positive about this and thought maybe it was an IB but today have come on and obviously quite clearly it wasn't, so for the second time I've worked out that my LP is around 7 - 8 days long. :/
As it's only been two cycles, what do you ladies reccommend? I'm not sure whether to wait it out and see if it happens more, or go straight to the doctors?
Thank you for any helpful replies
Hi Downstairs. I think it depends on your age. I was 40 so I went to the doctor straight away, knowing I didn't have any time to waste. You will probably find that they don't do anything, as a lot of people on this forum will tell you, but at least it's noted in your records as a problem from the start. If age is on your side, maybe wait a couple of months and see what happens. Have your periods only come back quite recently or are you breast feeding? If so, it takes a while for things to settle down.
IVF news from me is that I only had 3 ripe follicles on the stimulating drugs, which is the minimum needed to continue to egg retrieval but not very hopeful of getting to the stage of implanting and even less so of a successful pregnancy. Confirms that age was my main problem all along, so reckon it's game over for me now
GettingProactive - I am really sorry to hear your news. I know all seems lost but I have known people who have conceived against all the odds so I will keep my fingers and toes crossed for you. You certainly come across as brave -I hope you can remain upbeat too. And I don't mean that to sound patronising at all. It's hard to convey a sincere tone online.
Downstairs -I have the same problem as you. I was ok post DS, but since trying for #2, I realised my LP had gone down to 7/8 days so I went to the doctor. Mixed response, but I managed to persuade them to give me the 5 and 21 day hormone tests (because the doctor I initially saw was young and new and keen to please...)
My 21 day hormone test showed very low progesterone, annovulatory in fact. They suggested I repeated the test because everyone has a few months when they don't ovulate, but sure enough the test came back the same. I had issues about when to go for the 21 day test because according to my temps, I ovulate on day 18 and then get my period day 25, and the whole point of the 21 day test is that it is done 7 days before the start of your period (7 days after ovulation) but for me that is the day of or after ovulation. I thought I was ovulating but just had low progesterone so was shedding my lining too early.
Anyway, after trying to explain that the doctor I came up against a brick wall. They asked me to do OPKs for a few months to see if I was ovulating and I never got a positive so I decided to go privately.
They did follicle tracking and I did ovulate, and funnily enough, it was on day 14 that month but sure enough, my period arrived 7 days later. So consultant prescribed me cyclogest which is basically progesterone. If you have a short LP due to low progesterone, this will sort it out!
Hi, pretty sure I posted an update upthread but wanted to let you know I eventually got pg after suffering a 8/9 day lp, was TTC for well over one year. First of all no gp or even the fertility consultant took it seriously. I finally got pg in November - due any day!! - and three things were significant that month
1. In september got diagnosed with underactive thyroid, had very mild symptoms and insisted on getting blood tested. Started thyroxin straight away and got pg a few weeks later by which time my tsh levels were back within normal range. Some docs will disagree but from the reading I've done I'm convinced being under active messed with my cycles. So I recommend getting tested to rule this out. Thyroxin is no bother to take and I now get free prescriptions.
2. I got pg the first month I took clomid, previously ovulated about day 18 but that month did on day 12 which suggests I was on track to have a more decent lp, before I conceived!
3. Had reflexology a couple of days before ovulating that month.
Months of b6 and ac did nothing for me though worth a try, as are soy isoflavones (on the shelf in larger branches of tesco)- best of luck.
Congratulations Christelle - really great to hear a short LP success story. Totes - it sounds like you are making progress too, so I really hope you get your BFP. Thanks also for the words of encouragement, they really moved me. Unfortunately, I feel neither brave nor upbeat at the moment, but at least I am proud of the fact that I did my own research and pushed to get the right consultant and treatment. Sometimes I felt like I was obsessing and causing myself stress by doing so much googling, but I don't regret it because the knowledge I gained allowed me to finally get some answers. So anyone out there who feels guilty for spending so much time on this, please don't. It's complicated stuff and often, the professionals just don't have the time or perhaps inclination to look into everything in as much detail as is needed.
Just wanted to say goodbye and good luck. My IVF journey ended after egg retrieval (had two eggs, but neither fertilised) so while I will keep trying naturally, the chances for me now are close to zero given my age and poor response to the IVF. Hope you all get your BFPs and have happy, healthy lives.
Sorry Proactive and thank you for your words of encouragement. I wish you luck x
Hello, I'd like to join you all.
It's great to find you, I didn't know anything about LPD, this thread has been really helpful.
I am 42 and have been actively trying to ttc for 4 months, although we haven't used contraception for 2 years.
My cycle is very short, 19 to 24 days. I spot for a couple of days before period, which then lasts 3 or 4 days with a little spotting afterwards too.
Two years ago I had pains which were put down to ovarian cysts for a few months, but turned out to be cysts on my fallopian tube. I ended up with an emergency laparotomy to remove it after it twisted. So now I only have one. I'm also hypothyroid and have been taking thyroxine for 8 years. Last test 3 months ago showed I was very slightly overcompensated but GP prefers to keep me this way as I get symptoms on any less.
My charts are showing that I ovulate between day 10 and 14, my luteal phase has been as short as 5 days, one cycle it was 10 days.
I also seem to have a 'fallback rise' in my bbt, not sure if this is relevant.
I already have dc, no problems conceiving before, but I was 35...
Now I've read here, I'll start taking vitamin b6 & c. Anything else I should be doing?
Hi Ogden, have you had any blood tests to see what your hormone levels are doing?
Hi Totes, no, I haven't been to the doctor yet. I know it's silly but I will feel embarrassed saying I want another baby. I think it's partly because the odds aren't that great with my age and lack of fallopian tube...but also because I feel like she may think I am selfish wanting another child (I have three, we just always imagined ourselves with four and then I had two miscarriages after DC3.)
I chickened out for a while after each miscarriage, and then had all the gynae trouble. I feel like she will look at me and be thinking I should be happy with what I have and take the hint from my own body that no 4 isn't going to happen.
I just don't feel ready to give up yet.
Sorry for the rant, I can just feel AF waiting in the wings again (spotting and back pain, CD19) and we have tried so hard this month. Mr Nash is looking forward to the break!
Is my GP likely to give me blood tests after such a short time charting?
After my op we thought we were doin the right thing leaving it to chance and not 'forcing' it. Now I wish I had started charting straight away.
It depends on the GP. I went to mine because I thought my LP was 8 days and we had been trying for 4/5 months for a second and I just said I felt something wasn't right. Fortunately they were happy to oblige and I found out I had low progesterone. They didn't understand what I was saying about a short LP and said I wasn't ovulating (I was - just late) so...
I then had to go privately to get progesterone as ( and this is where it kicks in) they wouldn't refer me until we had been trying for more time, and it did the trick.
You say your LP varies. I thought LPs were only meant to vary by two days max and they were 'fixed' pretty much. Unless the thyroxine has something to do with it.
I can see what you mean getting GP to co-operate. In terms of trying without GP, people say Angus castus can also help to lengthen the LP, although I think all the evidence is anecdotal. I think you can get it from Boots.
Let me know how you get on!
Thanks Toes, I am new to charting so I may well have my LP wrong. I have had either a fallback rise or a random spike in temp two or three days before my temperature shifts up until AF.
Because I had it for two months, I was moving my ovulation back (wishful thinking probably), FF still has it on the day before the second rise. If this is correct then my LP has been 5 or 7 days.
Also I am not confident yet in deciding between spotting and flow, both of these issues may account for that?
I guess I will get better at it as I continue, but I find it hard to read my signs, this is why I have been waiting for it to happen by 'accident'. I am terrible at telling what my cervix and CF feels like, it seems to change morning to evening too.
I have bought some zinc, B6, vitamin c and royal jelly today. Does anyone here take Q10? Or Pregnacare Conception?
Is Angus Castus the one you have to be careful taking? I thought I had read conflicting reports on that.
I daren't tell DHwhat I've spent- he doesn't believe one bit in supplements and I will be positively rattling!
Has the progesterone lengthened your LP Totes?
Hi all, thought I'd pop in for some advice! I came off the pill a month ago, ov on cd18/19 and got my period this morning on cd26, so my lp was only 7 days.
How long should lp be? Would you recommend I take b6 or is it normal for the lp to take a while to settle after being on the pill? Thanks.
Hi Ogden,I think spotting is a sign of low progesterone but I may be wrong? I have just heard about Angus castus from peeps on here. I think, along with the other vits, it works for some and not for others. B12 did nothing for me but that's because it was a progesterone issue.
Have you used OPKs? That might be helpful to use alongside your temperature tracking. I never got a pos ovulation with them though so they don't work for everyone.
I started progesterone supplementation in July and got pregnant. I am about 8 weeks along so it did the trick. I had to go privately though.
Vjones - I think you need to give your body a while to settle after the pill. A month isn't long.
I definitely spot, and then flood. I used OPKs this month, but not often enough I don't think. I got 2 possible positives, one definite on the day I had my first temp dip and then an equal colour one the following day. I think this is why FF puts ovulation later.
I will go and see my GP after this AF [brave]
Good luck. If you have used OPKs you will have a stronger case than just temping as docs tend to assume a high degree of in accuracy in the latter.
Hi all, just looking for some general advice on the SLP issue as I don't seem to be getting anywhere with the NHS!! My cycles are usually 25 to 28 days, this time as fallen on 25 days but is spotting only so far, very frustrating and tiring - tomorrow would have been CD28 so it's already been 3 days of spotting. I think I may have a SLP as the CBFM showed a peak on day 16 and it sounds like spotting may be a symptom of low progesterone? Any advice much appreciated as I'm currently TTC#1 and getting very down about it; we've only been trying for about 6 months so far but I was very hopeful indeed this month
Hello everyone. I've been posting on MN for a while about TTC. I came off the pill in Feb and have been tracking using a mix of OPKs and temperatures. These indicated a consistently short LP. In August I had blood tests and in early September I had an ultrasound - this rules out PCOS.
I just asked for my blood test results.
I have my blood test results from the GP now. Can anyone shed any additional light on these:
CD16 - serum progesterone 1.600nmol/L. GP notes say still low try 7 days before next period.
CD23 - 4.900nmol/L. GP notes say OV not happening. Referred for ultrasound.
CD23 and 24 - positive OPKs
CD30 - 47.300nmol/L. GP notes say OV happened.
CD30 and 31 - lots of spotting or light AF
Day later - medium flow AF. Lasted a full 5 days with some heavy days in there followed by at least 2 days of spotting.
Explanatory notes on blood results:
Follicular phase 0.5-4.5
Luteal phase 10.6-89.1
Ovulation is confirmed if levels are above 30
My temperatures are usually around 36.2 (but can range from 35.6 to 36.4) before ovulation and then around 36.4-36.5 after ovulation.
I think this suggests a possibly underactive thyroid.
A doctor at my surgery was very dismissive of my short luteal phase so I'm having another appointment with another GP next week. I'm intending to ask for thyroid related blood tests.
I've also contacted a private fertility clinic who have said they could give my progesterone to support my luteal phase and (hopefully) early pregnancy. I will explore this further if I don't get anywhere with my GP.
I would appreciate any advice.
GP appointment is tomorrow. Does anyone have any minute advice? I'm intending to ask for thyroid testing. Anything else I could try?
I don't know anything about the tests you've had, but can give some advice about the thyroid.
Your temps arent too low, but Low body temp doesn't have to be an indication of hypothyroidism anyway. But since you have problems with your cycle, it'll be good to test. Usually they only test TSH, but if you can get your t4 tested as well, this will give a more complete picture.
Do your blood test in the morning, this will give a more accurate TSH. Ideally it should be under 2, or even better under 1. Request the test result afterwards though, because the range they usually use is quite high.. So you might be higher than 2, but classed as normal. If that's the case, your GP might not want to prescribe any levothyroxine, but they might retest later to make sure it isn't getting worse.
Brand new on here and looking for some advice...
Been ttc this year with no luck yet. I'm 33. Been buying a house too so not every month have we done the deed so am trying to keep calm and happy and things will happen.
Been tracking my cycles and luteal phases and just wondered if the latter are a bit short and worth me seeing my gp about?
Not tracked every month but the ones I have, so far here are my luteal phase lengths: 12, 12, 12, 13, 11, 10, 11
What do you think? Sorry if this comes up so often it's boring, but as I say I'm new. Any advice greatly received.
Thanks lovely people
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