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HOMOEOPATHY FOR CHILDREN

(105 Posts)
MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 20:51:51

Any of you used homoeopathy for their children rather than conventional meds?

amistillsexy Thu 13-Jun-13 21:09:56

I have, on and off, used homeopathy as first aid for my children. Teething powders/granuals when they were babies, Chamomila to calm, Arnica for bumps and bruises, etc.

I've also taken DS2 to a homeopath for help with his excema. It was evry bad, making the inside of his elbows and his back, stomach and thighs bleed. The homeaopathic treatment, along with my own homemade moisturising creams, has improved it no end.

I use a homeopath regularly myself, and have found homeopathy to be excellent, getting to grips with things that conventional medecine hasn't touched.

Many people on here don't have such positive things to say about it, though, and have strong opinions against it, so you might need some wine before too long!

reptilian Thu 13-Jun-13 21:14:10

would echo what amistillsexy said - you must be prepared for a backlash, however, as a homeopath myself who has raised two children and got rid of eczema and allergies I must sing its praises no end! Wonderful stuff that allows children to heal themselves naturally. I wish your children a swift recovery.

MistyB Thu 13-Jun-13 21:18:02

Yep! First port of call for all illnesses. Works for us!
<hides thread to avoid reading the insults that will follow>

incywincyspideragain Thu 13-Jun-13 21:25:20

Works for us, dh is now a complete convert as this is the first season he's used homeopathy to manage his hay fever, it's first port of call for us for illness

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 21:26:32

LOL! to comments regarding backlash. I have a son with ADHD, I have a very, very thick skin and am used to 'backlashes' of all sorts ... bring it on!! grin

hermioneweasley Thu 13-Jun-13 21:27:34

Only if they're dehydrated and need a drink.

ninjasquirrel Thu 13-Jun-13 21:29:54

Ok, I will be the first to point out that they are just sugar pills. Literally. Nothing else. So they can't do any harm (unless the child is being denied actual medicine) but it's a combination of placebo effect and things getting better on their own.

lurcherlover Thu 13-Jun-13 21:30:05

Why would you buy expensive water rather than choose medicines which are licensed and proven to work?

ninjasquirrel Thu 13-Jun-13 21:30:51

Ok hermione made it as the first non-woo person.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 21:30:59

Hermione not a fan then?

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 13-Jun-13 21:33:24

Use homeopathy all you like, it does sweet FA but rather than conventional meds hmm - I really hope for your children's sake you don't.

hermioneweasley Thu 13-Jun-13 21:33:31

Nope. It's so far fetched, I cannot see why any remotely sensible person would ever, ever use it.

It's madness.

Well I'm not going to berate you - after all, what ever works.

However, Tim Minchin has valuable things to say on the matter here.

It's 10 minutes long but very funny

"there's a word for alternative medicine that's been proven to work. It's called medicine"

amistillsexy Thu 13-Jun-13 21:37:05

Madame

wine
wine
wine

grin

WidowWadman Thu 13-Jun-13 21:37:35

You may also want to have a look at @homeoheretic's twitter feed. He's a trained homeopath, who made the realisation that it's all tosh.

Alibabaandthe40nappies Thu 13-Jun-13 21:38:09

No, because it is a pack of lies.

Pedalled by deluded and dangerous people to the gullible.

hermioneweasley Thu 13-Jun-13 21:39:43

OP, does your DC have a medical condition which requires some sort of active treatment?

Tic tacs are quite good, as are yellow smarties if you're not bothered about buying nestle. If they are actually ill though, take them to an actual doctor.

IAgreeCompletely Thu 13-Jun-13 21:41:01

Conventional all the way for me. smile

At least homeopathy does no harm.... unless it stops you from seeking actual medical help. And possibly to your wallet.

hermioneweasley Thu 13-Jun-13 21:47:20

Actually, I am a woo-pedaller myself. If my kids get a bump they absolutely insist on it being kissed better. Works every time.

Perhaps I should start selling my kisses to those with non specific ailments. That has no potential to end badly does it?

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 21:48:29

I've always used conventional meds for my children. However, the thought of pumping amphetamines into my son to help him concentrate in class turns my stomach frankly .. so, after listening to Radio5L the other morning about ADHD and hearing a mum's success story after using homoeopathy to help her ADHD son, I was curious. Conventional meds treat ADHD like-4-like i.e. they put speed into a hyperactive child ... which is unusual. From what I understand homeopathy works the same way. Watched the TM video btw, v. funny grin

exexpat Thu 13-Jun-13 21:50:39

OP - do you actually know how homeopathy is supposed to work? It is based on the completely bonkers theories of someone in the 18th century to do with like curing like, and how slapping a flask with a leather strap makes water remember things, and how remedies become more powerful the more you dilute them etc. Although those ideas might have seemed logical 200 years ago, they have been proven wrong by two centuries of scientific progress. The only way homeopathy could possibly work is through the placebo effect.

Homeopathy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Homeopathy i/&#716;ho&#650;mi&#712;&#594;p&#601;&#952;i/ (also spelled homoeopathy or homœopathy; from the Greek hómoios- &#8005;&#956;&#959;&#953;&#959;&#962;- "like-" + páthos &#960;&#940;&#952;&#959;&#962; "suffering") is a system of alternative medicine originated in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, based on his doctrine of similia similibus curentur ("like cures like"), according to which a substance that causes the symptoms of a disease in healthy people will cure similar symptoms in sick people.[1]
Hahnemann believed that the underlying causes of disease were phenomena that he termed miasms, and that homeopathic remedies addressed these. The remedies are prepared by repeatedly diluting a chosen substance in alcohol or distilled water, followed by forceful striking on an elastic body, called succussion.[2] Each dilution followed by succussion is said to increase the remedy's potency. Dilution usually continues well past the point where none of the original substance remains.[3] Homeopaths select remedies by consulting reference books known as repertories, considering the totality of the patient's symptoms as well as the patient's personal traits, physical and psychological state, and life history.[4]
Scientific research has repeatedly found homeopathic remedies ineffective and their postulated mechanisms of action implausible.[5][6][7][8] The scientific community regards homeopathy as a sham ;[9] the American Medical Association considers homeopathy to be quackery ,[10][11] and homeopathic remedies have been criticized as unethical.[12]
The low concentration of homeopathic remedies, which often lack even a single molecule of the diluted substance,[13] has been the basis of questions about the effects of the remedies since the 19th century. Modern advocates of homeopathy have suggested that "water has a memory" – that during mixing and succussion, the substance leaves an enduring effect on the water, perhaps a "vibration", and this produces an effect on the patient. This notion has no scientific support.[14][15] Pharmacological research has found instead that stronger effects of an active ingredient come from higher, not lower doses.
Homeopathic remedies have been the subject of numerous clinical trials. Taken together, these trials showed at best no effect beyond placebo at worst that homeopathy could be actively harmful.[16] Although some trials produced positive results,[17][18] systematic reviews revealed that this was because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias.[7][19][20][21] The proposed mechanisms for homeopathy are precluded by the laws of physics from having any effect.[22] Patients who choose to use homeopathy rather than evidence based medicine risk missing timely diagnosis and effective treatment of serious conditions such as cancer.[23][24] The regulation and prevalence of homeopathy vary greatly from country to country.[25]

I think homeopathy and herbal medicine gets confused quite a lot: arnica pillules at whatever dilutes = nonsense
arnica cream with an actual concentration of active indgredient = works.

I know which one I paid good money for to treat my tender bits postnatally with grin.

Having said that, growing up, our family dr was also a homeopath and I survived. Every single cold I had, got better with his treatment. Imagine!! wink

hermioneweasley Thu 13-Jun-13 21:52:08

Madame, the principle of like for like in homeopathy is overridden by the fact that it is just water. Honestly, just water. The like for like principle (whether you feel it makes sense or not) is irrelevant, because it is just water.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 21:54:52

exexpat I never refer to Wikipedia as any old Tom, Dick & Harry can contribute to it. I get the jist however.

nocake Thu 13-Jun-13 21:56:27

I'm a good parent so if my DD has a health issue I use evidence based medical treatments. That means I don't waste my time, or money, on homeopathy which is not evidence based and is nothing more than water and sugar pills.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 21:57:43

amistillsexy you've been hanging around this board for as long as I've been on the Special Needs board by the looks of it! You know them well grin

exexpat Thu 13-Jun-13 21:59:03

Fair point about wikipedia, though I think that is a reasonable summary. The NHS gives a very similar view.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 22:00:21

nocake Do you think you would seek an alternative if you were in my shoes, given the side effects to drugs like Ritalin? - a serious question btw.

Hahneman simply stipulated that you treat like with like - he pulled the theory out of his hat like a magician does a rabbit.
And it is just water...

Having said that, water IS good for you grin

I am no fan of Ritalin being prescribed and overprescribed.
However, the reason it had unwanted effects is because it has desired effects as well.
Water makes you pee.
I am not aware of any changes to behaviour.

Taking, say, fish oil capsules in the hope that this will have an effect on how the brain processes sensory input and emotions has at least some theoretical chance of success.

TondelayoSchwarzkopf Thu 13-Jun-13 22:05:08

Is that the choice you have? Amphetamines OR magic sugar water.

I don't envy your position btw, it's just homeopathy is not the answer.

exexpat Thu 13-Jun-13 22:05:54

...and homeopaths' ideas of 'like' are rather loopy. There is another thread running about a remedy made from fragments of the Berlin wall; the same manufacturer offers a series of remedies made from different brands of cigarette, eg Silk Cut. Not quite sure what that is meant to cure - lung cancer, maybe?

IAgreeCompletely Thu 13-Jun-13 22:06:12

hermoine

You have got me thinking....

Not only can I kiss things better but I also have magic plasters, carrots that ACTUALLY make you see in the dark and hugs that make tears disappear.

I am quite Woo'ish afterall . shock

amistillsexy Thu 13-Jun-13 22:06:15

Madame, I've got my wine and my Bingo game board grin

I've also got a very chilled out 9yo with ASD, who has been woo-ed up to the max, and (recent Houdini impressions notwithstanding) is doing very well on it, thank you very much grin

I don't think I'll be telling anyone on here about my recent obsession with Bach Flower Remedies, which are ACE grin

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 22:06:27

Pacific was thinking the same thing about water ... tis wonderful and keeps us all alive and kicking! Oh dear, I must have the makings of a bad parent as was considering it for ds .... I should probably hand myself into social services now wink

nocake Thu 13-Jun-13 22:09:00

I would look at the side effects of any drug that was being prescribed. They all have side effects but you have to balance them against the benefits.

Instead of homeopathy where you don't have to worry about side effects because there aren't any... just as there aren't any benefits. You might as well give your child a teaspoon of water as that will have exactly the same effect.

Well, I think homeopathy is woo and wouldn't bother with it myself.

However, if you are always going to be left wondering what might have happened if you tried, Madame, then try it (if you can afford to). I too don't envy you your position. Homeopathy won't do any harm.
Ritalin can turn lives around, sometimes does a little good, sometimes does nothing. Its sideeffects are reversible on stopping the drug.

I think I know what I would try first, but am not in your shoes...
Good luck thanks

GiraffesAndButterflies Thu 13-Jun-13 22:12:39

Do you think you would seek an alternative if you were in my shoes, given the side effects to drugs like Ritalin? - a serious question btw.

Seeking an alternative to Ritalin is perfectly rational. Regarding magic water/sugar pills as a sensible alternative is not. The best you can hope for is a placebo effect.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 22:13:25

Yes Tonde they are my only choices. Am wondering if possible heart damage, appetite suppression, depression, anxiety and stunted growth are a worth while trade off for him to get decent GCSE's sad A serious question to all non fans ... are your comments based on personal experience or opinion?

GiraffesAndButterflies Thu 13-Jun-13 22:17:14

Wonderful stuff that allows children to heal themselves naturally.

That's amused me... Homeopathy certainly does allow people to heal themselves naturally, given that it's the same thing as giving them a sugar cube!

k2togm1 Thu 13-Jun-13 22:19:33

Op if you want to look at other ways of managing/treating (sorry not sure what would the appropriate word be) ADHD have a look at a book called simplicity parenting (forget the authors name, sorry).

Bach's Rescue Remedy is 27% alcohol - no wonder it chills grin.

As a non-fan (but with big sympathy for people seeking help for their health problems, particularly when they are beyond the ken of conventional medicine) my aversion to homeopathy is based on a conventional medical education grin and my utter and total inability to persuad myself to believe any of the theory behind it when I looked in to training in homeopathy. I could just not bring myself to peddle this nonsense and feared that what with having a 'Dr' in front of my name and dealing with worried/ill/upset people all the time, I'd actually be guilty of taking advantage of them.

So, no. NOT a fan.

curlew Thu 13-Jun-13 22:22:35

No. If they need medicine, they need something that works. If they don't need something that works, then they don't need medicine.

GiraffesAndButterflies Thu 13-Jun-13 22:23:37

Madame my comments are based on science. If homeopathic treatments worked the way they claim to it would defy the laws of chemistry. It just is not possible, any more than the pills can make you levitate or be invisible. Clinical trials over and over have shown this, there's just no wiggle room I'm afraid.

That said, in your shoes I'd probably be willing to try to get a placebo effect going if there was any chance it could help. So you could buy him a homeopathic remedy on the off chance it would do that, just don't be under the illusion that you're buying anything other than sugar pills- and pay accordingly!

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 22:26:07

Am a master of parenting book and have read Kim John Payne's book .... I think I'm a good mum and parent my son well. I manage his behaviour well and he responds well to me. His issues are in the class room where I cannot be ....

BOF Thu 13-Jun-13 22:29:06

No, and I never would. I think it is deeply unethical of homeopathy companies to market to parents actually, if it means they eschew actual medical help for real issues.

If I want to harness the placebo effect on a small child who has nothing serious wrong with them, I might give them a smartie and tell them it's medicine. If I think they are actually unwell, I take them to the doctors.

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 22:33:52

No. And I note with interest how my one and only homeopath friend dropped it like it was hot when her child got meningitis. Thank god.

LoveSewingBee Thu 13-Jun-13 22:39:17

I don't believe in homoeopathy apart from the (sometimes very powerful) placebo effect. However, I do sometimes use herbal therapy and aroma therapy and find them useful.

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 22:43:48

Parents who have failed to seek medical attention for serious illness/accidents relying instead on 'alternative' medicine have been prosecuted. To which I say 'good'.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 22:48:33

Spero Are referring to the mum who tried to prevent her child from having radiotherapy ...? ADHD isn't life threatening thank god and I would not dream of seeking a homeopathic remedy for cancer ....

curlew Thu 13-Jun-13 22:49:12

Obviously parents using homeopathy when proper medicine is needed are criminals and should be treated as such. But I have friends who give their children homeopathic pillules for all sorts of things-being nervous, not going to sleep straight away- all sorts of perfectly normal life events that you should learn how to deal with as part of growing up. Which you won't if your first thought is to reach for "medication". Of whatever form.

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 22:54:18

No. There was a link n other thread about an Australian couple whose baby died from severe infections from excema. The dad was a homeopath. Parents were convicted.

I recall others but would have to google for full facts. But there are others.
Parents simply do not have the right to foist their weirdness on their children if it would cause child significant harm.

Mess about with sugar pills all you like. But to cause a child's death or serious harm due to reliance on 'alternative' treatment is quite rightly a criminal offence.

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 22:57:06

Actually, thinking about it, we'll take the placebo effect thanks very much, that'll do us! grin Am checking out of this thread btw as I can see it turning into one of those MN 'let's get er' kind of thing. Thanks for all your personal 'experiences' though ....

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 22:59:10

The placebo effect is real. I accept that exists.

Homeopathy is the practice of dangerous charlatans.

Hey, I think the placebo effect is very underused.
But apparently it's unethical... hmm.

As I've said before: good luck!

incywincyspideragain Thu 13-Jun-13 23:04:04

<whispers> op I have a 7 yr old with diagnosed ADHD, we refused medication at 6 yrs, adjusted diet and use homeopathy, his behaviour has improved on Connors scale <head down runs>

curlew Thu 13-Jun-13 23:06:16

<whispers> maybe it was the diet and the attention?

incywincyspideragain Thu 13-Jun-13 23:09:10

maybe but boy am I glad we don't medicate - if homeopathy gives you a route to try I say go for it smile

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 23:09:33

<shouts> it was the diet.

Not the water. But glad he is doing better.

curlew Thu 13-Jun-13 23:09:34

"Am checking out of this thread btw as I can see it turning into one of those MN 'let's get er' kind of thing. Thanks for all your personal 'experiences' though ...."

This sort of thing is soooooooo frustrating. Are people supposed to say "Well, homeopathy is scientifically proven to be complete rubbish, but you carry on, if "it works for you"?" Is that what people want?

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 23:12:15

Ah yes. Remember a while back I tried to have a genuine conversation with someone about flower remedies. I was honestly interested in how she thought they worked. She instantly shut down, said 'I don't have to take this' and walked off.

If your beliefs cannot stand up to even the politest challenge, worry about your beliefs and what you think they are based on.

BOF Thu 13-Jun-13 23:15:39

The placebo effect is not at all unethical. Pretending that homeopathy has active ingredients, however, is.

I agree with you, BOF.

"The widespread acceptance of placebo within the global medical community has been established in previous studies abroad. However the use of such treatments still conflict with the General Medical Council’s ethical codes, Dr Howick explained: “Current ethical rulings on placebos ought to be revisited in light of the strong evidence suggesting that doctors broadly support their use." The GMC does not.

Full Independent article

MadameSin Thu 13-Jun-13 23:25:40

Oh no curlew, see what you've done ... lured me right back in just when I was about to log out and go to bed. OP asked "Any of you used homoeopathy for their children rather than conventional meds?" ... sooooo frustrating as it didn't read "What do you all think of homeopathy?" I know what people think, I just wanted any experienes of the others. Gawd blimey, some people ah, nowt better to do? Nite wink

BOF Thu 13-Jun-13 23:32:44

Pacific, I think it's Ben Goldacre that describes doctors being able to explain to patients that some people feel better with these sugar pills, that seem to harness a powerful mind-body connection and make them feel better, and they are chemically inert, but do appear to help in many cases. They are then able to decide whether they want to try them or not. That sounds ethical to me.

Spero Thu 13-Jun-13 23:37:44

Then you should have been much more explicit in the wording of your op. as you phrased it, it is perfectly legitimate for those of us who have not to explain why not.

Perhaps next time you could try - I use homeopathic remedies with my children and find them helpful. Would like to know of the experiences of other like minded parents. Please don't comment in a negative way about homeopathy because then fairies may die.

MadameSin Fri 14-Jun-13 00:34:27

Spero I've never used homeopathy remedies for my children and now you're jusy being silly and a bit rude.

Crumbledwalnuts Fri 14-Jun-13 00:58:49

MadameSin: that's mild smile

I don't use homeopathic remedies. But I think one of the ways they help is to keep parents away from "actual" medicine which may be more harmful in the long run. I'm thinking of the overuse of paracetamol and anti-biotics in children. Ear infections for example are often largely self-limiting, and many GPs will say (in fact I think there was a study) that use of anti-biotics shortens the infection length by approx 24 hours. That's not really worth a trip to the doctor and five days of wobbly anti-biotic use - much better to let the child beat the infection without them. Similarly Calpol: a raised temperature is often, if not usually, beneficial rather than dangerous. Calpol and ABs together can lead to a debilitating cycle of antibiotics, poor nutrition absorption, reinfection, more calpol, reduced temp so the body can't fight the infection, more ABs, more diarrhoea, etc.

Homeopathy and a watchful parent would be much better here - it just allows the body to get better on its own, a tremendous boost.

exexpat Fri 14-Jun-13 01:12:55

Or just a watchful parent. Homeopathy adds nothing to the mix - it doesn't 'allow the body to get better on its own' any more than doing nothing or offering tea & sympathy would. It has no effect, just costs money, and perpetuates the idea that there is a pill for everything.

I don't go running to the doctor when I or the DCs have minor illnesses, and I rarely give them paracetomol etc, because I am perfectly well aware that most childhood diseases are self-limiting, and they are vaccinated against the worst ones. I can't remember when any of us last had antibiotics for anything - I think it was probably at least seven or eight years ago But if any of us were seriously ill I would make full use of proper doctors and rigorously tested real medicine.

Crumbledwalnuts Fri 14-Jun-13 01:17:33

It obviously does actually. Parents want to do something. Note the continued overuse of paracetamol, even though it's often useless and may be harmful. Use of a homeopathic product might stay the parent's hand as it reaches for the Calpol. I should think it often does. That is an addition to the mix, and it's a good one.

Crumbledwalnuts Fri 14-Jun-13 01:18:51

In fact given the apparent "transferred placebo" effect (which I'm prepared to believe in though I have really no clue how it's supposed to work) it has the potential to do more than stay the parent's hand.

curlew Fri 14-Jun-13 07:16:37

"I don't use homeopathic remedies. But I think one of the ways they help is to keep parents away from "actual" medicine which may be more harmful in the long run. I'm thinking of the overuse of paracetamol and anti-biotics in children. Ear infections for example are often largely self-limiting, and many GPs will say (in fact I think there was a study) that use of anti-biotics shortens the infection length by approx 24 hours. That's not really worth a trip to the doctor and five days of wobbly anti-biotic use - much better to let the child beat the infection without them. Similarly Calpol: a raised temperature is often, if not usually, beneficial rather than dangerous. Calpol and ABs together can lead to a debilitating cycle of antibiotics, poor nutrition absorption, reinfection, more calpol, reduced temp so the body can't fight the infection, more ABs, more diarrhoea, etc.

Homeopathy and a watchful parent would be much better here - it just allows the body to get better on its own, a tremendous boost."

Absolutely. I agree with ALL of that-apart from the addition of homeopathy. If you give a child a pill, whatever it is, you are not telling a child that its body is a fantastic thing that usually knows how to fix itself- you are telling it that it needs pills to mend it. And parents who use homeopathy, in my experience, use it for a wide range of what I would consider normal parts of the human condition that users of conventional medicine wouldn't dream of "medicating" for.

Crumbledwalnuts Fri 14-Jun-13 08:04:13

Curlew: you seem to overlook the human need to do something, rather than nothing. How nice if we could all be as marvellous as you and sit on our hands and do nothing (actually I have done nothing for a bad ear infection and I'm very glad about it, though it was extremely hard and very nerve-wracking at the time). How much better for the "something" not to be a potentially harmful medication.

I use Bach's Rescue Remedy on myself and dd. I do not believe it has a medical effect.

I do believe it causes us both to take a moment, calm our heart rates, practise mindfulness and return to the present moment (instead of projecting that you're going to fail the exam if you're dd).

As for homeopathy I agree that only if it prevents you from accessing conventional medicine it is a problem. I lived somewhere very industrial when I was at Uni and had constantly blocked sinuses, blocked for months on end that never went away - back then (20 years ago) they sold homeopathic cinus sugar pills, about 1200 tiny pills in a tube for £3.99 in the health food shop - if I took them I had NO sinus problems.

I didn't give a crap if it was placebo, or if the actual sugar in the pills helped my sinuses - I just cared that I could breathe properly.

I'm happy my brain can delude itself to feel better - not much different than the psychotherapy I actually practise (though studies support the practise of psychotherapy)

Spero Fri 14-Jun-13 08:25:19

So you haven't used homeopathy but you want to have a discussion about it? But just not with any negative views?

Ok. That makes sense. In homeopathy world.

I am beyond scornful of this idea that homeopathy is great because it stops parents reaching for redundant or harmful paracetamol or antibiotics.

So you are saying parents are basically thick, so lets just wave something shiny at them and distract them.

I certainly do not use paracetamol or antibiotics without very good reason and on medical advice/prescription. I don't need to be lured away from the medicine cabinet by a little bottle of sugar pills with a ribbon on.

noddyholder Fri 14-Jun-13 08:28:29

My son for fear of flying (extreme) it worked

curlew Fri 14-Jun-13 08:30:06

"Curlew: you seem to overlook the human need to do something, rather than nothing. How nice if we could all be as marvellous as you and sit on our hands and do nothing (actually I have done nothing for a bad ear infection and I'm very glad about it, though it was extremely hard and very nerve-wracking at the time). How much better for the "something" not to be a potentially harmful medication."

You see- it's really difficult to have a sensible discussion when you insert the "as marvellous as you" sort of remark. Why do that? What I don't understand is why you think it "either" one thing or the other. Personally, I don't think medication of any sort is needed for most minor childhood illnesses- that watchful waiting is the way to go. But when I woke up to see red streaks creeping up my dd's leg from a massively swollen foot, I was at A and E within minutes and I am acutely aware that if she had been born in the days before antibiotics she would probably have died. Or lost her leg. Or both. Or are you saying that I should have "held my nerve" and let her body heal itself?

Crumbledwalnuts Fri 14-Jun-13 08:30:57

Spero:
I am beyond scornful of this idea that homeopathy is great because it stops parents reaching for redundant or harmful paracetamol or antibiotics. So you are saying parents are basically thick, so lets just wave something shiny at them and distract them.

Sorry to disabuse you but I'm afraid an awful lot of this does go on in a conventional care setting at the moment.

Distraction from potentially harmful medication is one benefit - another would be placebo, or transferred placebo.

noddyholder Fri 14-Jun-13 08:31:31

My sister is a homeopath and a chartered accountant! She has never said they are active ingredients but she does have some amazing results which even the cynic in me can't dispute.

Spero Fri 14-Jun-13 09:13:18

I am not saying it doesn't happen. I am saying I am disgusted that it does happen.

The fact that people have continued to abuse anti biotics on a massive scale is going to cause us enormous problems very soon. But god forbid we try to educate people, just wave one other kind of stupidity in their faces.

MadameSin Fri 14-Jun-13 09:34:28

Spero do you have personal experience of homeopathy not working? I'm not being provocative, seriously curious. I'm not thick, a criminal nor a bad parent as a few posts have hinted. In fact, I'm a bloody good parent and have probably had to 'parent' a lot harder than many others due my sons SN. My OP didn't ask for positive experiences only, that's why I posted the question. I just wanted to hear from people who had used it as the original questions implied. And why do people on here cut and paste your comments .. we know what we've already said confused This thread has turned into everything I had hoped it wouldn't and not because I can't take negative feedback, but because it's been hijacked by Wiki-bloody-pedia and other plagiarised statements. I really should know better by now that there are MNetters that lurk purely for the purpose to flame other parents at any given opportunity ... all that I hate about MN. sad

curlew Fri 14-Jun-13 09:40:43

"I really should know better by now that there are MNetters that lurk purely for the purpose to flame other parents at any given opportunity ... all that I hate about MN. "

See, I don't understand this. Is disagreeing "flaming"? It's very difficult to have any sort of discussion if that's the premise.

exexpat Fri 14-Jun-13 09:41:02

Sorry if the wikipedia post annoyed you, but there have been so many previous threads on here where it has become apparent that people considering homeopathy had no idea about how it was supposed to work - they just thought it was something natural and vaguely herbal (eg lots of people who have had arnica tablets recommended before labour). If you already knew all the stuff about dilution etc, my apologies. I wasn't trying to flame, just give information.

Crumbledwalnuts Fri 14-Jun-13 09:45:28

Curlew: you're right, I shouldn't have said "as marvellous as you". It was unpleasant.

I meant - not every parent can do nothing. Maybe you find it easy, maybe you find it possible! but many don't. That's what I meant.

Spero Fri 14-Jun-13 11:12:29

Yes. I had very bad morning sickness. My homeopath friend pushed various remedies on me. Nothing worked. I was so desparate I would have tried anything. Even wore one of those bloody bangles.

Nothing worked but I now have a life long aversion to ginger after all the awful tea she suggested I drink.

I have also experienced directly the quite powerful impact of mind over body - when I first had chemo, objectively I didn't feel much worse than if I was getting over a bad cold. But I kept imagining all those awful chemicals in my body, doing horrible things and I panicked and felt much much worse. So I tried to turn my thoughts around and concentrate on the chemotherapy as a healing force, killing the bad cancer cells. And I felt better about the whole thing.

I don't think conventional medicine always has the answer. Sometimes treatments are very brutal and you do need a sensible cost/benefit analysis. Chemo is a very good example of this.

But I am aghast at the number of people who die or who are seriously ill because they have taken some 'chinese medicine' or decided they can get nutrients from the air. Or the children who suffer because of their parents' beliefs.

I really worry that this 'anti rational' thinking stance is corrosive and dangerous. And to charge people money for products which have no proven efficacy - you will never convince me that this is anything other than corrupt practice.

I've been thinking about this thread today.

I agree with just about everyone else on this thread that homeopathy is a load of woo bollocks, however ...

In your position, I would be asking, if your DC doesn't have the ritalin, is the ADHD likely to get worse or just remain the same? (I don't know enough about the condition to answer that question)

If it is likely to just remain the same, if I were in your position, I'd be inclined to give a placebo a go first because as you say, the side effects of ritalin are pretty drastic.

I think maybe you'd have received kinder responses if you'd spelled out the position you're in straight away in your OP rather than asking a general question. I also think people could have been a bit kinder once you did explain why you are considering homeopathy. It's possibly been unfortunate timing as there has just been a long bunfighty thread about homeopathy in AIBU so you've probably caught the tail wind of that a bit.

Hope you're OK.

Also, if your DC is manageable at home but not in school, I'd be questioning whether there was more the school could do.

MadameSin Fri 14-Jun-13 22:42:33

Plenty I defo get the feeling I'm on the tail end to it. There's a pack mentality culture on MN to kick you while you're down and then when you questions their motives, you get blamed for daring to post such a controversial question and should expect a bloody good kickin' sad I've looked around the MN site and there's been a few similar threads recently, so maybe I asked for it. My sons ADHD probably won't get any worse, but his relationship with education is bound to. Have been talking to 'brick walls' in that dept since he was 7, so don't expect any miracles soon. Our education system is highly structured and target driven, no good for my ds. I want to help him make his life less stressful and help him reach his potential, whatever that may be. I'd be wiling to eliminate less harmful interventions whatever. Thanks for your comments smile

Spero Fri 14-Jun-13 22:56:26

I commented that it was odd for you to ask for views and then complain when you got them. If you wanted only positive input about homeopathy you should have framed your question more precisely.

I think it is absurdly over sensitive to then complain about 'getting a kicking'.

MadameSin Fri 14-Jun-13 23:59:49

Original question "Any of you used homepathy for your children rather than conventional meds?" .... next time I'll add "Oh, and if you think I'm a twat for even asking the question, feel free to tell me!". It's ok, I know it's a MN thing.

differentnameforthis Sat 15-Jun-13 03:07:27

I used Homoeopathy once, for sinus issues. I was only young, so didn't know exactly what they were, just that I needed something different as nothing else worked (hayfever/rhinitis)

It did NOTHING! I was pretty pissed that I had spent money on something that claimed to have all the answers! When a friend told me what they were (sugar pills), it all made sense.

And no, I would not use Homoeopathy on my children. My friend uses it for everything & her kids are sicker than any children I have known! If they get sick, she throws this stuff down their throats & they get better, but no quicker than if she didn't give them anything.

It is water, with nothing in it. Sod dilutes, & succussion (the art of shaking it 30 times, in 3 different directions). That adds nothing. It is water. There is more of chance of my toilet water doing something to you (albeit probably making you sick, but at least that is something)

Madamesin - I have used homeopathy with my severely autistic (now teenage) son. Somewhat unusually amongst his peers he is not on any medication although last summer I was beginning to think we were heading to the place of no choice (I was black & blue). He's had a storming year since last September - made massive gains, I'm not going to say it was all down to homeopathy, as it wasn't, improvements in communication & some cognitive gains also made a difference. However, we have found homeopathy to be useful at various times over the years with him. Both for this sort of thing & in the early days when he had a lot of health problems. Feel free to PM me.

Oh and in the early years we used diet to great effect. I do have a friend with a child who is the same age as ds1 who had dreadful side effects with anti psychotics. He came off, her paed suggested trying the diet (the standard gfcf) and she seems to be having the same sort of experience we had when ds 1 was little, ie lots of positive changes - esp to behaviours. It is worth collecting some data if you try diet (actually just occurred to me I have another friend who has also tried the diet recently to great effect -although she didn't medicate prior to the trial, also going well & with the data to prove it smile )

You might want to look at something like Treating Autism as well. They have ADHD in their remit as well and lots of links to medics, scientists & alternative practioners.

Good luck - I do know people who have had positive experiences with medication but I quite understand the wish to avoid it.

MadameSin Sat 15-Jun-13 08:21:30

Saintly thanks for sharing smile

crashdoll Sat 15-Jun-13 11:37:51

I don't talk about this much but here goes; I don't yet have children but I was treated as a child with homeopathy instead of conventional medicine. Please don't do this to your child. By all means, use complimentary treatments alongside evidence based medicine but denying children the right to conventional medicine when it is available and free at the point of use is dangerous.

I'm sure the thread police will come and tell me off, stating that that my opinion wasn't necessary but I've decided to share it anyway because I believe that harm does happen and can be prevented.

Crumbledwalnuts Sat 15-Jun-13 13:40:51

It's a place for people to share their experiences crash doll smile

Surely it depends on the medicine crashdoll? My eldest son was damaged by conventional medicines used, imo with hindsight, inappropriately. The standard advice on their use has now changed - and I found when ds3 was hospitalised the advice (we will not give medicine for this) was something I agreed with (and was relieved by - they didn't seem to notice I was agreeing with them & had a long explanatory spiel).

In terms of the OP - she is asking about heavy duty drugs with well recognised side effects. Even the most common one of weight gain can have life changing consequences when you have challenging behaviours. It might not be relevant for OP but I have seen children become dangerous with weight gain & CB's. Anti-psychotics are a treatment always kept in reserve for ds1 as well. I recognise there may come a time when they are necessary but I will certainly be seeking alternatives first - they will always be the last resort.

crashdoll Sat 15-Jun-13 15:36:42

saintly I appreciate it must be difficult as a parent to make difficult decisions regarding any treatment for your child/ren. I know there are side-effects and that you have to weigh up pros and cons. There is a difference between researching a conventional drug e.g. anti-psychotics and on balancing, feeling the side-effects will outweigh the benefits. I just thing it's wrong to completely ignore and not look into the possibility of conventional medicine and write it all off as bad/useless/whatever.

Oh I agree, but I don't think the OP is doing that. She has valid concerns about some pretty heavy duty drugs. As I said in a previous post, I do have friends who have had good experiences with them, but all have had concerns as well and there have been side effects - both the common almost expected ones (eg weight gain) and more scary ones, in some case scary enough to force the stopping of the drug.

I am slightly amused by so many people singing the praises of diet though, as we were laughed out of the consulting room by ds1's paediatrician more than ten years ago for using diet. And much rolling of eyes was very common on this sort of site at the time as well. Whereas his current paed and neuro recommended trying it (we already had - obviously). How the times change.

crashdoll Sat 15-Jun-13 17:06:20

I was not accusing the OP of that. I also have concerns about heavy duty drugs. In addition to my concerns of people giving their children sugar pills without fully considering the implications.

The difference between diet and homeopathy is that diet is a.) much more difficult to double blind test rigorously and b.) that it hasn't been tested in the same way as homeopathy. Homeopathy has been looked at and looked at and it still is proven ineffective, whereas research into diet is more of a grey area.

gastrognome Sat 15-Jun-13 17:18:05

I used to believe in homeopathy. Now I think it's just the "wishful thinking" school of medication. I've read lots about it, and cannot for the life of me work out how it could possibly be effective, aside from the placebo effect.

However, I know lots of people get herbal remedies and homeopathy mixed up, when in fact there are plenty of plant-based medications that do work (indeed, some are extremely powerful). So sometimes people think they are using homeopathy when it's a herbal remedy.

specialsubject Sun 16-Jun-13 11:47:41

I used to find that a homeopathic remedy worked sometimes for me. Then I found out what homeopathy was, and the remedy stopped working. Proved the placebo effect!

It's cobblers as medicine. Waste your money if you want, but don't deny real treatment to children who need it.

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