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Is anyone else concerned about the Measles outbreak in the Swansea area?

(94 Posts)
IwishIwasmoreorganised Wed 03-Apr-13 23:01:54

We live in the Vale of Glamorgan, and had letters fom Public Health sent home from school before the Easter break saying that there had been a few cases in our immediate area. We were in the WMC over the weekend and there are notices there asking people to be vigilant for the signs and symptoms

The numbers affected have now topped 500 in the Swansea area.

Our ds's have both had 2 doses of the MMR, but as the start of the summer term draws nearer (they go back on Monday), I'm feeling more concerned.

There's nothing realistically that I can do to protect them any more is there?

pinkteddy Wed 03-Apr-13 23:11:24

I would be worried too if I lived locally. Has there been any advice given? How about your GP?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 04-Apr-13 08:53:08

No advice at all, just informed about the need for vigilance.

RatPants Thu 04-Apr-13 08:56:39

I love in the next county to you and have heard a lot about this. I have friends in Swansea but understood that vaccinated children were protected - is this not the case?

EggInABap Thu 04-Apr-13 09:20:08

My mother lives on the outskirts of Swansea and has 5 children in her nursery off with measles. 2 are in hospital. 3 of the 5 had already had the MMR. It is scary. I don't know what I'd do if I lived nearby, probably panic and keep my DC inside! I know that doesn't help you I'm sorry.

I am scared that despite all the injections our children will never be immune to these stronger strains of virus. shock

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 04-Apr-13 09:33:24

Vaccinations do not offer 100% protection. I'm at a loss of any other ways to protect them (and me as well I suppose).

MandragoraWurzelstock Thu 04-Apr-13 09:59:43

Sorry for those of you in this situation.

I'm just wondering how many of the children affected have had the MMR...if it's not offering protection then that puts a kind of question mark over its usefulness I suppose.

I hope your children stay safe, IWish. just wanted to say that my son had (probable) measles at 10 months and though he was poorly, he didn't sustain any permanent effects. (I say probable because a doctor diagnosed it, and swabs were sent but only one came back positive and they said it could have been because he was breastfed - so it was inconclusive)

Tiggles Thu 04-Apr-13 10:07:15

sad hope you all stay measles free Iwish.
The measles vaccination is only 90% effective after one dose of MMR, rising to about 99% after the second.
The vaccinations tend to work as well by a herd effect, if enough children have been vaccinated then an epidemic can't occur. Unfortunately in Wales the level of MMR uptake is very low and therefore the herd effect isn't working.

MandragoraWurzelstock Thu 04-Apr-13 10:08:25

Is that the case - that it's caused by low uptake? Where did you read this?

MandragoraWurzelstock Thu 04-Apr-13 10:10:00

The BBC says uptake in the area is around 89%.

bruffin Thu 04-Apr-13 10:23:26

The BBC says uptake in the area is around 89%.

When they say 89% that only means the current cohort due to be vaccinated this year. It was as low as 80% in children following the MMR debacle

Tiggles Thu 04-Apr-13 10:27:37

this is a link to the uptake in Wales of MMR over time, which shows how low the uptake has been in the past. It isn't just young children who are at risk of catching measles, but all the unvaccinated teenagers.

Tiggles Thu 04-Apr-13 10:30:47

these are the figures for Swansea, as you will see they were at less than 75% uptake for 2 doses of MMR in 2007.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 04-Apr-13 11:00:14

Those links are interesting. The stats are showing that our area has a very good uptake of both MMR jabs.

I'm not much of a scientisist. Would that imply that we're safer round here, that the epidemic shouldn't be able to take hold as it has in areas whose population hasn't been vaccinated as widely?

Tiggles Thu 04-Apr-13 13:19:34

Iwish, I believe that is the case, but my original science field (neuroscience) isn't directly related to vaccinations, my only real link directly in this field is I have written the databases for lots of disease monitoring and reporting.
I know they target a 95% uptake level.

RatPants Thu 04-Apr-13 13:29:17

I didn't realise that, was told and mistakenly believed that those who had been vaccinated were very unlikely to catch it. Oh bugger! Swansea isn't very far away at all and I bet lots of children in the dc's class will have been out and about there over the school holidays.

AmandinePoulain Thu 04-Apr-13 13:46:07

I'm in Swansea and very, very worried. There haven't been any cases in dd1's school as far as we know, but there have been several in our 2 local secondaries and the primary school which is actually the closest to our house. I think that something like 60 of the 400 children there were unvaccinated shock. I phoned my HV before Christmas worried about my then 4mo dd2 given that she was far too young for the vaccine and was told that all I could do was avoid playgroups and ask everyone I met whether their children had had the MMR. The advice locally has changed this week though - she is now 7mo and had the MMR yesterday smile, I can't tell you how relieved I am! She will still need the usual 2 doses and the reason they don't normally give it early is because in young babies the response isn't always sufficient to ensure immunity but I feel that I've done all I can now, and I've given her the chance at least. They are also calling over 2s early for their booster, my friend has her nearly 3yo booked in for next week. DD1 had a rash and temperature after her first MMR and I'm hoping that that means that it worked for her, and that dd2 will have as good a response, because what else can I do?

I hate that it has come to this, that because other people haven't vaccinated their children mine are at risk - they were hoping to have eradicated measles by 2015 in Europe but that isn't looking likely now angry. Roald Dahl wrote a book about his daughter's death from measles in the 60s (there's a summary on the BBC news site) and it's so tragic that we are here again. sad The news is saying it's just a matter of time before a child dies or suffers permanent damage. sad

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 04-Apr-13 21:46:17

Just sitting down ready to watch the news for today's update.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 04-Apr-13 22:34:55

More than 540 cases now sad

Extra vaccination clinics planned in Swansea, Neath /Port Talbot and Bridgend this weekend.

I'm at a loss. There's nothing I can do except keep my fingers crossed is there?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Fri 05-Apr-13 20:00:14

47 new cases in the last 2 days sad.

I turned down a trip with a friend to Margam Park today. She thought I was over reacting, but I just felt I couldn't take what I felt was an unnecessary risk.

lottieandmia Sat 06-Apr-13 11:13:33

I've been reading about this. The thing to bear in mind is that the government's official report of uptake only includes children who have the MMR. Most people who don't have the MMR choose singles instead but this won't be reflected in the figures. So in reality the uptake is probably higher than 90%.

This begs the question of whether outbreaks are happening in spite of the vaccination programmes. In the US, there are outbreaks of mealses too even though vaccination there is mandatory.

bruffin Sat 06-Apr-13 12:07:13

lottiethe outbreaks in america happened because unvaccinated children travelled to europe and brought it back. Even though it is manditory you can can get dispensation for religeious beliefs etc and the outbreaks do tend to be in pockets of unvaccinated children. The estimate for 2000-2002 was only 5 % received singles vaccines and i suspect that figure is much lower now that people realise that the whole mmr scare was a hoax.

lottieandmia Sat 06-Apr-13 12:26:16

The government don't record figures for singles because usually you have to go to a private clinic to get them. The MMR 'scare' wasn't a hoax - it was misrepresented. AW said more research was needed for the 7% of children who are more at risk because of their genetic profile. The media somehow interpreted that as him saying MMR causes autism generally - that was never the point made.

AuntieBrenda Sat 06-Apr-13 12:32:57

I'm really worried. My DS is just 2. I don't live in Swansea but many of my colleagues do and they all have young children. I'm thinking of asking for DS to have his booster early. I'm probably being paranoid but it is such a worry

bruffin Sat 06-Apr-13 12:38:50

It was a hoax, AW had a patent for single measles vaccine. The was also the alteration of the measles found in the gut readings and the alterations of the childrens records in the research to make it look like they regressed within days of mmr. In the measles patents he said mmr was unsafe and also at the news conference he recommended single vaccines.

Llareggub Sat 06-Apr-13 12:42:53

I am in Swansea and I am not worrying. My children have had both MMR doses and I have learnt from my anxiety about swine flu in the past that there is no point worrying. It is a sunny, warm day so I will be taking my boys out for a run on the beach.

Llareggub Sat 06-Apr-13 12:51:55

Thinking about it, I am more worried about bringing up children in an area with such a high heroin problem. See, you can worry about everything.

lottieandmia Sat 06-Apr-13 12:55:48

Well, I disagree bruffin and have read a great deal about this but not going to argue, we'll agree to differ smile

bruffin Sat 06-Apr-13 13:02:20

Lottie, i wont agree to differ because its posts like yours and AW that has caused the measles problems of today, it comes from quack websites. Also they will be able to roughly estimate singles because there is no single vaccines licensed for use in the UK and anyone importing a single vaccine has to do so under special license and they know how many are imported into the country.

lottieandmia Sat 06-Apr-13 13:09:37

What do you mean, 'posts like mine'? Vaccine damage does happen to some children and some children are more at risk than others and that is why some people don't vaccinate. There is at least one well known Mner who knows that her son regressed following the MMR. All vaccines carry a risk and some children are more at risk than others.

To deny that this is the case is arrogant. This is not a clear cut issue and I do wish people would understand that everyone is trying to do the best for their child whatever decision they take.

And fwiw I am not particularly anti-vaccination but totally understand why some people take the decisions they do.

btw - do you have any proof that outbreaks in the US happen only in unvaccinated children?

bruffin Sat 06-Apr-13 15:43:49

I did not say vaccine damage does not happen. It does but it is incredibly rare. None of the cases that AW included were NT one day and regressed over night. There had been study after study that cannot make the connection AW made. You are perpetuating the myth there's a connection between mmr and autism when there is no evidence for it. Those who should not have mmr are clearly advised and it nothing to do with some mythical genetic predisposition against having a triple as appeased to the single.

Secondly i didn't say that all the cases in the US were unvaccinated. Info is easily searchable and the initial cases were imported by unvaccinated travellers and over 80% of the cases were completely unvaccinated. Some had not had the booster,

4nomore Sat 06-Apr-13 16:03:48

Yay Bruffin! I'm glad someone still has the energy to argue these points.

lottieandmia Sat 06-Apr-13 17:56:14

This isn't just about a connection with autism though.

Where is the evidence that vaccine damage is 'incredibly rare' please? (and what number would be 'incredibly rare) Adverse reactions to vaccines are not published. The whole thing has become so political now. And even if it is rare do you think collateral damage is acceptable?

The point is that while a vaccine may be reasonably safe for one child it may be much more risky for another whose has autoimmune disorders in the family.

bruffin Sat 06-Apr-13 18:10:03

The vaers system does publish reactions. I linked to a table the other day that compares the reach to the vaccine compared to complications of the disease. Incredibly rare is 1 in a million.
I have never ever found anything that connects vaccination damage and immune problems. Autoimmune problems are not included as contradictions for vaccines. There is plenty of evidence that the diseases will leave you autoimmune diseases ie rubella and arthritis and diabetes following viruses.

OrangeFootedScrubfowl Sat 06-Apr-13 18:35:31

I am concerned as I have a premature baby who won't have taken much immunity from me. sad

lottieandmia Sat 06-Apr-13 18:38:47

No they are not included as contraindications, but a lot of us think they should be. Also of concern is that if someone suffers a bad reaction to a vaccine (and I don't believe it's as low as 1 in a million), medical practitioners refuse to accept that the vaccine could have been responsible. The lack of honesty by the authorities is why we now have this situation and it could have been avoided imo.

What you seem to be saying is that we should all vaccinate, no matter what. And I disagree. And this is not easy for any of us, as can be seen on the thread below. As I say, it isn't a clear cut issue as much as any of us would like it to be.

bigbuttons Sat 06-Apr-13 18:43:50

I have 6 dc's. First had mmr and changed pretty much 'overnight'. Can't say it was because of the mmr can't say that it wasn't though. But the change in him was huge and baffling to all dr's and consultants.
He stopped eating and growing for a while, stopped speaking. He wasn't the same bright little boy at all. He just shut down developmentally.
He had the most vile bowel movements and since he was in cloth nappies I knew exactly what wasn't being digested.
I chose not to take the risk with my other children. The other 5 all had measles last year and although an unpleasant illness, they were fine.
So there are those of us that have to make the difficult decision not to immunise and it IS a difficult decision.

Posterofapombear Sat 06-Apr-13 19:09:59

There is now a small but significant outbreak in mid Wales which has resulted in all toddlers having MMR boosters now instead of at 3.

This is thanks to a bunch of irresponsible idiots who spout forth their anti vaccine crap at every available opportunity and have unvaccinated children.

They are most displeased that their little ones are at risk now because the herd immunity is too low.

My DD had measles at 8 weeks because of them and will now have to have an extra vaccination so in struggling to feel much pity.

ClaraOswinOswald Sat 06-Apr-13 19:24:32

I honestly can't remember my DDs being offered a booster for the MMR. Will ring the doctors on Monday, maybe they had it, but I can't be sure. Is it routine?

Llareggub Sat 06-Apr-13 19:27:12

Have you checked your red book?

bruffin Sat 06-Apr-13 19:28:07

Lottie none of them have ever come with any evidence about immune disease and vaccine and believe me i have asked on numerous occasions and so have many others.

ClaraOswinOswald Sat 06-Apr-13 19:40:24

Nothing in the red book but we moved counties and they rarely got weighed or anything after their development checks at about 2. I won't panic, we're home all weekend and I'll ring Monday.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Sun 07-Apr-13 10:31:29

lottieandmia. I can see that the debate over to vaccinate or not is one that is close to your heart, but this thread wasn't intended as a forum for that debate.

I simply asked if anyone was concerned about the current outbreak and if there was an more I could be doing to protect ourselves.

ChristmasJubilee Sun 07-Apr-13 16:57:53

EggInABap it would be interesting to know if the "two in hospital" were vaccinated ie whether the vaccine gives some protection.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 18:19:53

The two jabs together give a 99% protection. So, out of 100 kids who have all had the two MMR jabs and who have all been exposed to measles (like now in Wales for example) one fully vaccinated child might still get measles. Just very very unlucky when that happens and that shows how important herd immunity is.

However, the probability that unvaccinated children get measles when they have been exposed is close to 100%.

Guitargirl Sun 07-Apr-13 18:30:58

We don't live there but we have spent the last week in the area visiting family. Our DCs have had both the vaccines. We didn't take any precautions last week, i.e. went out and about as much as usual but I did notice that the softplays/museums/swimming pool were quieter than usual so I guess people are staying away. Apparently the local paper has taken a portion of the blame in the low uptake because of its reporting of the scare at the time, they have said that none of the staff on the paper at the time are still there now hmm.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 18:46:07

Given that both your dc have been fully vaccinated, the probability that they get measles is very very small (about 1 in 100). It is also thought (but not scientifically proven) that vaccinated children may get a milder form of measles compared with unvaccinated children.

You may want to read up on measles symptoms and timelines, just to be prepared and in order to know what to look out for. If in any doubt, be careful to avoid immune suppressed people as they in all likelihood have not been vaccinated and measles would be extremely dangerous to them.

duchesse Sun 07-Apr-13 18:47:51

DS is at U of Swansea and was not fully vaccinated until January 2012 as he'd reacted badly to the first jab. I was concerned about mumps in his first year at university so thankfully had him boosted. I would like to know how many of the children and young people with measles at the moment are actually vaccinated- I suspect more than the public health people are letting on. At no point have they said that all the victims are unvaccinated.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 18:54:26

As mentioned above, no vaccine is 100 per cent effective.

Ultimately, it is going to be a numbers game. If 1000 children have been exposed to measles, of whom 300 had not been vaccinated and 700 have had the two jabs, then you would expect:
the 300 unvaccinated children to now have contracted measles and 7 of the fully vaccinated children to also have contracted measles, although possibly, but not guaranteed, in a milder form. The latter is due to the lack of herd immunity.

The majority of children who contract measles will not become gravely ill, develop eyesight or hearing problems or encephalitis or even death. This will be a small subsection. Based on past figures the death rate is 1 in 1000. However, it is impossible to predict which child will be the unlucky one. sad This is why herd immunity is so important, as some children (and adults) truly cannot be vaccinated due to immune problems or egg allergies etc.

Llareggub Sun 07-Apr-13 20:31:05

Good job the schools are off for another week. I've not come across any children with measles as yet. I had it as a child and I am still breastfeeding my youngest so hopefully that will help.

duchesse Sun 07-Apr-13 20:42:00

Yes indeed Bee- almost everyone over the age of 40 will have had measles and they are not all brain-damaged and/or blind, so presumably the risk of severe complications must be actually fairly low. It is possible to have some pretty stonking complications from chicken pox but people don't think twice about that.

4nomore Sun 07-Apr-13 20:51:02

I'm 45 and I was vaccinated against measles which was standard then

Llareggub Sun 07-Apr-13 20:57:12

Duchesse, I am not far from the university. I've heard nothing locally about an outbreak amongst the students.

duchesse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:06:38

Maybe they respond in large enough numbers to the calls to be immunised against mumps? Since the only way to immunise against mumps is the MMR, they should all be covered on the whole.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 21:14:07

Based on past figures, the prediction would be that

1 in every 20 cases develops pneumonia
1 in every 1000 cases develops encephalitis, with significant risk of permanent brain damage
1 in every 1000 cases dies

I know from when I had measles, one of my friends developed encephalitis and got brain damaged. It just wasn't much talked about then. Got kind of hidden away, I never saw her again, very sad.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 21:18:58

Yes, chickenpox can also cause encephalitis. However, the death rate of chickenpox is much lower compared with measles.

mummytime Sun 07-Apr-13 21:25:40

I'm 47 and was vaccinated against measles, of the only 3 people I knew who caught Measles, one nearly died (the other two had it mildly and had been vaccinated).

4nomore Sun 07-Apr-13 21:37:45

Yes I also know only three people who've had it one was my sister who'd been vaccinated and caught it mildly, my nephew (not vaccinated) who was only about a year old at the time who was ill but maybe not quite so much as you might fear and my them partner (not vaccinated) who was 18 and very healthy usually, in all the time we were together I never saw him anywhere near as ill - he could hardly stand for a couple of days and he had pleurisy and urgh... really not nice

duchesse Sun 07-Apr-13 21:54:55

Practically everyone I know over a certain age has had measles because we moved to France in 1973 where they were not yet vaccinating. My oldest sister and I were vaccinated before we left Britain, but my three younger siblings had measles, as did most of our school friends. No deafness, no blindness, no deaths.

Vitamin A deficiency is supposed to make the effects a lot worse, therefore often way worse in malnourished children.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Sun 07-Apr-13 22:10:02

LoveSewingBee. Thanks for your posts, all very interesting and useful.

Lareggub schools here (Vale of Glamorgan) go back tomorrow. We've not headed West at all during the holidays and have avoided swimming pools, soft play etc. I feel now that they're back to school I am unable to protect them as much. They both have had 2 doses of MMR and apart from being very aware of the symptoms and timelines I really don't think I can do any more.

LoveSewingBee Sun 07-Apr-13 22:27:15

Iwish, unfortunately, I think you are right. However, you have done a lot by ensuring they have had both their vaccinations.

The chance that your children will get measles is really very small. Furthermore, if they do get it, then the biggest risk is pneumonia (1 in 20). Although pneumonia is still a killer, timely intervention and hospital based support makes a HUGE difference to outcomes.

In the extremely unlikely event, that one of your children was to contract measles and was to go on to develop pneumonia, then the key is not to hesitate for one moment and seek medical help (hospital not GP) straight away.

However, in all likelihood your kids will be okay but it is going to be the several thousands of teenagers who have still not been vaccinated who are at increasing risk.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Sun 07-Apr-13 22:36:13

LoveSewingBee. Your posts are all very sensible and rational - thank you!

I know that they aren't at massive risk, but for some reason it's bothering me far more than I can understand or explain.

Kids eh?!

slightlysoupstained Mon 08-Apr-13 11:24:33

Iwish thank you for starting this thread, I am further east (Bristol area) so am hoping the risk is lower here but still feel anxious as DS is just 7 months. LoveSewingBee's posts have been very useful. We were planning to go and visit a friend in Swansea over Easter, I am very very glad that we didn't go now.

It's a very sad thing that the more widespread a vaccine programme is, the fewer people realise how important it is, because they are less likely to have encountered the consequences. It seems to take something like this before people actually sit up and think "hang on, doing nothing is NOT the best choice for my child here".

There is a known psychological effect where if a decision seems complex, people tend to stick to the default option even if it isn't what they would have chosen if given two simple options. I think for a lot of parents, all the noise from quack websites makes it seem like the decision is terribly complex, so they take the default of doing nothing.

Jammygal Tue 09-Apr-13 13:56:31

Just wanted to add that my brother suffered with a terrible case of encephalitis as a result of mumps when we were kids. He very nearly died from it- it was touch and go.....he always found school a struggle after that.
Also my sister emigrated to Oz a few years ago and when she went and registered kids for healthcare, the nurse nearly hit the roof when she was told all three kids had already had chicken pox. All kids in Australia are vaccinated against C.P. because of the risk of complications from it! I bet is is down to funding as to why our kids in the uk are not vaccinated against it!

ClaraOswinOswald Wed 10-Apr-13 18:11:40

My 2 had their boosters (one in 2005 one in 2008, no wonder I couldn't remember). Thanks for the advice, they are as immune as they can be.

LoveSewingBee Wed 10-Apr-13 19:35:21

The WHO has advised that in certain situations vitamin A may be prescribed to reduce the effects of measles. If you are very worried you may want to discuss this with your GP (you don't want to take too much vitamin A).

Also for people who are immune suppressed or babies, there is an antiviral which MAY have some benefit - again discuss options with your GP.

None of the above can prevent measles though. Only the two vaccinations together with herd immunity (eg 95% vaccination rate) can really provide sufficient protection.

The biggest worry in Wales are still the many thousands of unvaccinated teenagers who form a massive risk to babies and immune suppressed people. sad

Unfortunately, until the teenagers get sorted, this outbreak is not over yet.

mummytime Wed 10-Apr-13 19:54:37

I think there are two reasons we still don't vaccinate against Chicken Pox. First there are some issues over it long term effectiveness, and also its links to Shingles. Unlike other measles the virus remains in your body, and can then go on to cause shingles.

Second is that as the uptake rate of MMR is so low, the government doesn't want to waste money on another vaccination program, that will probably also have a low uptake rate. It would also divert money and attention from trying to increase the uptake of MMR.

(I say this as someone who caught Chicken Pox in pregnancy, nearly got her DC vaccinated whilst overseas, and whose DH's mother died of the complications of Chicken Pox.)

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 18:44:44

bruffin, as you've been informed countless times on vaccine threads - AW did NOT have a patent for a single measles vaccine. At the time he was urging caution about the MMR and suggesting that people use the single measles vaccine it was still available on the NHS. If you want to blame anyone for the decrease in the number of vaccinated children, blame the people who decided to remove the option for the single measles vaccine when there was still so much concern about the MMR. If they were genuinely worried about keeping up protection against measles then they would have gone down the 'something is better than nothing' route and given parents the choice until they were able to reassure them about the safety of the MMR. Instead they decided to push for all or nothing with the MMR and, unsurprisingly with all the media scaremongering, some parents opted for nothing.

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 18:47:43

JAmmy, it's not really surprising that the risks of chickenpox are going to be exaggerated highlighted in a country where they are promoting vaccination against it.

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 18:50:44

mummytime, I just read your post and I realise that it may come across as insenstive given that your MIL died from complications from CP. The risks of CP in adulthood are obviously much higher - one of the reasons why it makes sense to get it out of the way when they are younger.

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 18:51:11

...I realise that my last post*

bruffin Thu 11-Apr-13 19:09:25

I have linked to the patent numerous times on these boards.There are a few people on these boards in denial about it. AW even admitted it at the GMC hearings that it was a single vaccine patent.
The patent very clearly says that there a problem with mmr and i have a safer vaccine.
[[ the patent so others can read it for themselves]]

bruffin Thu 11-Apr-13 19:12:40
bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 19:18:24

Not true. Read the whole patent so that you can get in in context and not just the highlighted bits.

triballeader Thu 11-Apr-13 19:20:30

Just spent two weeks looking after a 15 year old with measles [cannot have vaccin under oncology] that was straightforward and not too bad but then my husband caught it off my daughter. He became so ill the GP wanted to send for an ambulance to take him to the regional isolation unit. I took him by car to reduce the risk of sharing it with the paramedics on call. He had to be immeadiatly isolated and spent a week being nursed in the dark in negative pressure isolation on oxygen, i/v drips. All his major organs inflamed and he developed 'black measles' from bleeding under his skin. His fever would not break and got stuck at 41C no matter what the hospital tried. His whole body began to swell from 'just measles'. It was terryifying to see someone so sick and not be able to do a darn thing. In between deliruim he begged to be allowed to die. It is not an experience I would wish on anybody. Thankfully he survived with only liver and eye damage. He is home but still under the the hospital. All I can say is this - my 16yr son with ASD and an egg allergy after seeing his dad raced to hospital and nearly die opted to request the MMR from his GP rather than risk measles.
We have had to explain to the HPA we have not been anywhere near Wales as we are in the West Midlands. If your family members are not in the medically advised at risk groups and have not had MMR or childhood measles please consider getting vaccinated rather than end up like my husband.

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 19:24:09

Sorry to hear about your husband triballeader - complications in adults are much more frequent and severe. sad

bruffin Thu 11-Apr-13 19:25:38

I have read it numerousvtimws in context. It clearly says therefore two uses. One is an alternative singles vaccine to mmr because mmr isnt safe. It is also to be used to as a transfer factor to repair the so called damage of mmr and measles.
Its all there for anyone else to read
AW was also found guilty at the GMC of experimenting on a child with this transfer factor when it had noth gone through any testing.

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 19:27:37

There was a perfectly good single vaccine available on the NHS at the time.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 11-Apr-13 19:40:13

Glad to hear that your DH is on the mend triballeader. That sounds terrifying.

I am trying to find out from my Dad and GP at the moment if I have been vaccinated - not having much luck!

givemeaclue Thu 11-Apr-13 19:43:28

The people who haven't had their kids vaccinated are very unwise and are putting the health of the wider population at risk. I would love to know what proportion of those who have unfortunately contracted measles haven'tabeen vaccinated

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 19:43:36

You could always get a blood test to check.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 11-Apr-13 19:49:42

The GP's are very reluctant to do that - I'm not sure why though!

triballeader Thu 11-Apr-13 20:37:07

Based on the hospital blood tests done on my husband- the test to check if you have immunity to measles costs and takes over a couple of weeks to test and come back [anyone who is seriously sick in hospital gets raced through and that still took 3 days] whilst an MMR costs a heck of a lot less and takes minutes. I suspect that trusts will be testing those who arive in hospital and are sickest as path lab priority to see if they have any immunity before any reosurces can be given to community based health care.
It should be in the vaccination section of your medical records if you have had an MMR or main record if you have had measles in the past.

bumbleymummy Thu 11-Apr-13 20:41:19

YOu can pay to get it done privately - I think the results just take a few days to come back. Or you could just get the MMR anyway - which is probably what they will recommend if you can't find your record.

HHH3 Thu 11-Apr-13 21:02:58

I just wondered if I could ask a question?...

I've checked with my mum and I had the measles vaccine (this was before MMR was available). I have an 8 year old who's had the MMR and a 4 month old who obviously hasn't yet. He's EBF and I was wondering if I'm passing any immunity on to him? Have no reason to be worried as afaik there are no cases anywhere near me. But it's got me wondering.


PJM18 Thu 11-Apr-13 21:07:24

Hi. I have recently read on an nhs website that the mmr offers protection against measles for at least 30 years and mumps for at least 19 years. Does that mean there are a lot of adults who are not immune to measles and mumps?
Trail leader, sorry to hear your husband has had such a terrible time. Did he have measles vaccine as a child?

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 11-Apr-13 22:13:10

I think I'll just ask if I can have the MMR.

Wonder what they'll say - the closest case of measles is in the next county.

LoveSewingBee Thu 11-Apr-13 23:26:46

The mother provides the baby with antibodies before birth and also through breastfeeding. However, this passive immunity will only last for weeks or a few months. It also depends on the immunity levels of the mother (eg if the mother does not have immunity against measles then she can not give antibodies to the baby).

Adults are actually advised to catch up on immunisations - not just MMR, but the whole range as appropriate (NHS guidelines), although not all GPs seem to be aware of this. So yes, you can definitely ask for the MMR as an adult. Will give much faster protection than asking for a blood test, having to wait for the result and then possibly still needing a vaccination.

triballeader Fri 12-Apr-13 08:21:54

He had measles twice as a child as most people did in the 1960's. HIs mum assumed he had to have had measles and german measles so he helped me look after our daughter who on medical advice could not have the MMR - the big problem was he did not then develop any immunity to the thing which neither of us knew until he became acutely unwell and collapsed. His blood tests continue to show no immunity to measles. That has me absolutely gob smacked. It has given me a real insight why the Health Protection Association encourages 95% take up of MMR to provide herd immunity for the sake of those like my daughter under oncology and my husband whose immune system just does not pick up as it should.
If anyone has a child under the recommended age for MMR and is concerned chat to your HV or GP - they will know if you have isolated measles cases near you even if you do not as it is a notifable disease and the HPA tracks where it appears and how it spreads if it gets loose in a community . The horrible thing is its carried by most of us but struggles to get going unless it meets a person who is not vaccinated or has poor immunity. I am hoping we will not end up being responsible for a west mids outbreak and I have told every person I can who may have been near us that we have had measles in the family so folk can get an MMR or know to contact their doctor if they start the three 'C's [cough, coryza [cold like symptoms], conjunctivitis] just before a fever starts [39+] the rash can start around the face and looks at first like a mild case of sunburn before it starts to mottle and come up as a slightly raised set of red spots] The HPA have also been tracking possible vulnerable people my husband and daughter may have been in contact with.
The HPA are responsible for confirming a suspected case of rubeola measles as rubeola. Once its confirmed they then watch to see if its spreading as has happened in Swansea, parts of the NE then it becomes an outbreak and the public are advised to get vaccinated if they are not already.

MyDarlingClementine Mon 15-Apr-13 14:03:47

how do i find out if i have immunity to give to my baby?
will my docs be helpful, i almost shake with fear asking my docs anything as the response is unhelfpul.

i am really really worried about going away and exposing her to it at the airport etc.

we are also going with another couple who are not as hot on personal hygiene for instance asking them in the dead of winter if they had washed their hands before touching week old baby, took it more of an insult and didn't actually physically go and wash hands...they thought i was being silly, this was with flu and noirvirus going round.
ie more difficult for me to make sure baby isnt touched by anything that could have measles on it.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Mon 15-Apr-13 17:15:24

My GP surgery have finally looked through my old notes.

I had a measles jab in 1977 and a rubella jab in 1978. I am booked in for a MMR next Monday.

Summerloading Sat 18-May-13 22:13:46

Has anyone else seen this? According to official statistics, most of the reported cases were not measles after all.

Summerloading Sat 18-May-13 22:19:05
scaevola Sat 18-May-13 22:24:38

Poor article. It doesn't say how many cases were tested and found not to be measles. Not all cases were sent for lab confirmation (rules different in Wales). And without information on how many were tested, it's impossible to extrapolate anything.

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