Mumsnetters aren't necessarily qualified to help if your child is unwell. If you have any serious medical concerns, we would urge you to consult your GP.

I'm taking dd to the Dr's today, only the third time ever she's been.

(87 Posts)
VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 07:42:07

Which at 12yo ain't bad. But I'm still worried that he'll think I'm fussing.

She's had really bad stomach pains on and off for about 10 months now. We went 10 months ago to see the GP and he gave her some buscopan......which seemed to help. The pains still come but they're once a fortnight rather than constant now.

But now she's been sick every day for months. Not tummy bug sick but its straight after eating like she can't keep her food down. Not loads of sick, just a bit more than a mouthful.

I think he's probably just going to tell me to give her some Antacid isn't he? I probably am fussing aren't I?

justaboutchilledout Mon 04-Mar-13 07:47:11

She's been sick every day for months, and you're only taking her to the doctor now?

Svrider Mon 04-Mar-13 07:49:32

Yeh there's a middle ground between "fussing" and neglect!
Hope your dd finally gets some help today
I also hope GP tells her she doesn't have to wait months for you to take her
She can go alone

ScottyDoc Mon 04-Mar-13 07:50:01

Perhaps it's appendicitis? Have they ruled that out? Or an allergy to something in her food. Stress can also have an effect in eating and digestion. I would recommend seeing a naturopath/nutritional therapist if the GP doesn't take it seriously.

orangepudding Mon 04-Mar-13 07:50:02

Why haven't you taken her sooner?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 07:53:06

Dr ruled out appendicitis last time we were there and seemed to think I was making a fuss.

If she'd been vomiting loads I'd have taken her sooner but like I say its just a mouthful, slightly more than a mouthful. She burps loads as well and it seems that she eats, burps and brings a mouthful up. So I've spent weeks telling her to stop burping. If I did a massive belch like she does after eating I'd bring food up.

lljkk Mon 04-Mar-13 07:54:02

Is it all in her stomach or does she have trouble swallowing?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 07:55:56

Its all in her stomach. I'm veering between thinking she has reflux to thinking she just has terrible table manners. Then on Friday she told me she can't stop herself burping. Which I'm a bit hmm about, I don't know if its a habit she's got into or whether after spending so long burping she really can't stop it.

lljkk Mon 04-Mar-13 07:57:42

Burping would be consistent with reflux or similar weak valve at top of stomach, doesn't sound made up to me. How many 12yo Girls really enjoy burping?

Wow, I am concerned at your lack of concern.
I would not be "boasting" about not have taken her to the dr - when you then go on and say she has been unwell for 10 months!!! That's neglect.

I would be horrified if I was your GP. I am horrified

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:00:08

DD thinks its really funny, the burping anyway. Always has done, and farting. She was trying to burp the alphabet at the weekend.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:02:08

She's not been unwell for 10 months, she was unwell 10 months ago and we took her. She started with been sick a bit less than 2 months ago, 2 months max. It wasn't every day to start off with but has been over the last 2 weeks. We tried to get an appt last week and today was the first available.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:03:48

And I wasn't boasting about not having taken her to the Dr. Just trying to say that I'm not the sort to go to the Dr every time they have a bad cold, etc so I hope the Dr doesn't think I'm fussing when I'm there today and realises if I am taking her then I'm worried about her.

butterfingerz Mon 04-Mar-13 08:07:42

It's your job to fuss, you're her mother. It's not healthy to burp and be sick after every meal. It must be quite embarrassing especially if it happens at school. Just because she finds it funny, doesnt mean its normal. She may need stronger meds or a referrel to a consultant for further investigations.

There is a balance between taking them to the dr at the slightest thing, and not taking them. You have got the balance wrong on this occasion, in my opinion, you cannot change that, but I would however ask you to seriously reconsider that thought process in the future.
I hope that she is fine, and that there is a simple solution to the problem, however - you will have to be able to live with the fact that your daughter has been suffering on and off for months, and a simple trip to the dr could have sorted it out.

lougle Mon 04-Mar-13 08:08:27

You sound like you're worried that he'll think you're neurotic, but I don't think you are being.

Does she describe any burning sensation or discomfort? Does she seem to be full quicker than you think she should be?

How are her bowel movements? Normal, painful? Diarrhoea or constipation?

Lay off the op! Viva you know there is something up with your daughter, so go to the docs confident that you are not wasting their time. Make sure you push for answers & don't get fobbed off. Good luck! Hope your daughter feels better soon.

lougle Mon 04-Mar-13 08:10:18

I think we need to consider the pressure Viva may have been under by the GP last time.

I've been there. I'm still there. I've been told that DD2's stomach pains are psychosomatic, stress, or a bit of constipation.

I've changed her school, she's much happier, but tummy pains still wake her at night sometimes.

I'm not taking her back to the GP yet, because last time I took her I was told that it was important not to make a fuss of it.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:16:32

Bafana - I can assure you she hasn't been suffering. She's had the symptoms I've described but that's different to suffering.

Mumsnet at its best again I see, nice and supportive. I posted on here last week asking for advice and didn't get a single reply. But people pitch in when they smell a bun fight. Didn't see anyone been helpful and supportive last week.

Lougle - I do wonder if some of it is pyschosomatic. She's been having problems at school and not been happy since she's gone to secondary. There's been tears about lack of friends, etc. However she is a bit of a drama llama and when questioned will say that she's hung out with x and y. People are always ringing her, etc so I don't think the friendship thing is as bad as she makes out. She did get bullied on the bus by a Year 9 girl but that's been sorted and the other girl is no longer on the bus.

Oddly enough at weekends she's OK. Then it all fires up Sunday evening again. She hasn't been sick at all Sat/Sun this weekend.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:18:00

And I think thats probably one of the reasons she hasn't been to the Dr before. Think I must ring up and make an appt and then she has a couple of days without been sick so I think its sorted.

justaboutchilledout Mon 04-Mar-13 08:22:41

OK, I am sorry if my reply felt like you were being attacked. I was trying to make the point that you weren't being neurotic, it obviously came across badly.
If you find your GP unsympathetic I think you need to think about changing doctors.

lougle Mon 04-Mar-13 08:25:16

FWIW children who are feeling unhappy and then get medical symptoms usually have non-descript and unverifiable symptoms such as 'tummy ache' 'ear ache' etc.

Children can make themselves sick on demand, but it's unlikely to be that if she isn't making too much fuss and it seems quite spontaneous after eating.

Out of interest, I wonder if she'd be sick if she had, say, toast or a breakfast bar?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:28:44

She's not sick after a snack, just a meal. Though she had a McDonalds yesterday and wasn't sick.

Also yesterday for lunch she had spagetthi and she told me that she was sick after and I know she wasn't. She said that she'd run out to the chicken run and was sick in there and the chickens ate it. Well all the time inbetween her having lunch and us going out I was in the kitchen and she never went out the back door so I know thats not true.

She's also never sick at school after having lunch which makes me think that perhaps she can control it. She wouldn't want to be sick infront of her mates.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:29:59

JustAbout - thanks. It was more the people outrightly saying I've been neglectful.

megandraper Mon 04-Mar-13 08:30:07

Has your doctor done a test for coeliac disease?

lougle Mon 04-Mar-13 08:30:38

How does she feel about her body?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:31:41

Thats interesting Bedhopper, hadn't thought about coeliac disease at all. No he hasn't. He didn't do much really, prodded her tummy and said she was fine and gave her buscopan for the stomach pains.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 08:34:56

Mmmm Lougle, that worried me a bit. But surely if she was been bulimic she would be vomiting huge amounts.

She's very slim, always has been. Which she thinks is good, she's said that some of her friends have commented about how underweight she is and she seems proud of that. I don't think she's underweight - just very slim. But I've caught her sucking her tummy in while looking in the mirror and she was really happy she could see all her ribs.

She was moaning today that her school trousers are tight and that she's getting fat. But thats the first time I've ever heard her say that. Of course I told her that she's not fat but she can't expect to stay in Age 10/11 trousers all her life.

Sirzy Mon 04-Mar-13 08:35:28

Some people are being very harsh on the OP. I think its perfectly normal to wait to see if symptoms develop before seeking further help.

What you said about her not being happy at school did remind me of me when I was a similar age. I used to be sick each morning before school and it was all through worry/anxitiy related to bullying when that was sorted the symotoms stopped.

megandraper Mon 04-Mar-13 08:53:17

We were fobbed off for 18 months by a paed about DS, and eventually another paed sent him for a coeliac test - off the scale high (after a year of being gluten-free, his antibodies still haven't dropped to normal). For a while he used to vomit occasionally as well, though never at school, only at home.

If I had known about coeliac (had not even heard of it) I would have asked for a test earlier and saved him 18 months of damage & pain. He is a different child now.

It does sound like she has something physical going on. Its unlikely at her age, but her symptoms sound similar to a hiatus hernia. So do ask about that while you're there.

And I do understand why you haven't had it looked at yet, it will have taken a while to get up to this point. Don't worry about him thinking you're fussing, you're really not. but do gear yourself up that they'll want some investigations doing

lougle Mon 04-Mar-13 09:31:48

"But surely if she was been bulimic she would be vomiting huge amounts."

I'm not sure, tbh. I just thought it sounded odd that she's been sick and you've not taken her to the doctors (so she obviously isn't generally unwell), is telling you she's been sick when she hasn't, can control it at school in some way...

If she has been telling you things about her weight and looking in mirrors sucking her tummy in, I would at least have a eye on whether what (could be) very physical could turn into something more psychological, given the unhappiness at school also.
"

I have gone back and reread the initial post, wondering whether I have overreacted to the post.
However - given I responded to the first 2 posts, I do believe that I stand by my initial reaction. OP, you have now given substantially more information that paints a very different picture to your OP, and I am relieved to see that the situation does not seem to be nearly as alarming as initially was portrayed.

I sincerely hope that you get to the bottom of it, whether it be physical or psychosomatic, and that she is better very soon.

Thingiebob Mon 04-Mar-13 10:56:58

My little one has been three times to the doctor and she is only three!

Hope it isn't anything to serious OP.

twilight81 Mon 04-Mar-13 15:43:41

My son is 3 and has a hiatus hernia so it is possible!
Sounds to me like some kind of reflux especially as she seems to be burping a lot. A GP is not going to think your neurotic for one second looking at her notes and seeing she's only ever been 3 times.. They are more likely to ask where you've been hiding her lol ;0)

twilight81 Mon 04-Mar-13 15:46:05

Ps. I personally doubt it is bulima, it's more likely that when at home she gets to eat more than she probably would at school.. Anybody with stomach issues/reflux will tell you small and often, as soon as they eat just a bit too much in one go it starts to spill back up.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 16:16:21

Well we're back from the GP. He's given her a bottle of Gaviscon, said it sounds like reflux.

DD is in tears - I just don't know what to do with her. She was sick a little bit at school today, she says it has happened before at school. She says she can't go to school tomorrow as everyone is avoiding her as they think she's contagious, she says she has no friends and sits by herself all the time, etc.

She didn't want to have the Gaviscon which annoyed me. I told her we've got this medicine which is probably going to make her better, etc. She was just crying and been negative about it saying it won't help and even if it does help everyone will still be ignoring her tomrrow. I really think that friendship issues are a big factor in all of this.

Its parents' evening next week so at least I can talk to her tutor.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 16:34:04

Just tried ringing the school as she's so upset bu they're closed. She's adament she's not going back and wants to be home schooled.

Sirzy Mon 04-Mar-13 16:42:05

oh dear poor thing, and poor you.

Can you get into school tomorrow with her to try to get to the bottom of it? Is there a friend or staff member she is closer to who may be able to help?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 16:50:00

I'm at work tomorrow so can't go in. I should be able to ring up in the morning though.

Sirzy Mon 04-Mar-13 16:57:57

hope you manage to get it sorted quickly.

catlady1 Mon 04-Mar-13 17:01:40

To be fair I wouldn't want Gaviscon either, it is truly the devil's semen. Urrgh.

It does sound like some kind of reflux judging by the burping and being sick after meals, but remember reflux can be a symptom of lots of other things. And even though she might not look or feel ill, if she's getting it daily then she is definitely suffering! I'm dealing with it due to my pregnancy and it is bloody miserable. And if she's being sick or burping up acid on a regular basis then it won't be doing her oesophagus or teeth any favours either.

You can buy heartburn/reflux remedies over the counter quite cheaply if she won't have the Gaviscon, ranitidine tablets worked for me until a couple of weeks ago, they're normally about £1 a packet and you take one or two a day. Or Rennie tablets can help if she'll chew those?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 17:05:59

The dr muttered about tablets but then decided that they weren't the best for someone dd's age. He was talking about tablets which help empty the stomach quicker......not sure if Rennie, etc fall into that category?

You can get gaviscon tablets I saw in the chemist, they might taste better. But would cost a fortune at two tablets, four times a day.

Also when she didn't want the medicine, this is before she saw it, sniffed it, tasted it. She just said she wasn't going to have it.....just in a negative mood of not wanting to get better.

I think she's brought it up now anyway. She's just sat at the table, burps, leans to the side, spits sick out on the carpet and carries on. Hate to say but the lack of attempt to go to the loo annoys me. She's wrecking my carpets.

Flisspaps Mon 04-Mar-13 17:11:52

The spitting the sick on your carpets is not on, if there is no attempt to get to the loo or a bucket, ill or not.

Who cleans that up?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 17:15:51

Me or the dog!

catlady1 Mon 04-Mar-13 17:18:13

Hmm, I think that would annoy me too! At 12 years old she must know that puking on the carpet isn't on :/

Maybe it is something to do with school, could she be being bullied? Or having problems with a teacher or something, how are her grades? If it's down to that and it's been going on for ten months though, it must be something quite serious. I don't know what to suggest other than perhaps talking to the school and asking if they've noticed any change in her? There's also the question of which came first (the illness or the problems at school), since she's said that people are avoiding her BECAUSE of the illness - although to be honest, I can't see that happening, unless she's being sick on the floor at school as well.

I did wonder about an eating disorder initially, but I think if it was something like that she wouldn't be doing it in front of you. I think her negativity and how upset she is is very worrying though, and suggestive of it being more than just a physical problem,

Sirzy Mon 04-Mar-13 17:22:34

that sounds like its almost attention seeking type behaviour. I would be tempted to make her clean it up at 12 she should know thats not on.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 17:25:49

The illness came first definitely. I think she worries too much about what other people are thinking and also what she tells me doesn't always bear a resemblance to reality.

Apparently no one saw her been sick today but she says she told someone......who then told some other people. She reckons everyone on her row in English then moved to a different row. And she spent 30 minutes on her own until she left the lesson.

I find it hard to believe that a whole row of kids are going to be allowed to move places mid lesson, or that there would be the space to do it.

Flisspaps Mon 04-Mar-13 17:26:20

Yes, regardless of anything else, she needs to clean it up immeduTeky

Flisspaps Mon 04-Mar-13 17:26:36

Immediately even!

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 17:26:46

I think making her clear it up is a good idea. I had bad HG when pregnant and I know what it's like to be sick with no warning, but I managed to keep my mouth closed as I ran for the loo.

ClockWatchingLady Mon 04-Mar-13 17:28:10

Wow.
As a relative newcomer, I'm amazed by the number of critical comments here, seemingly designed to promote anxiety and/or feelings of inadequacy in the poster. We're all trying to do our best, and I would guess that not slamming each other's parenting efforts is paramount to a forum like this one. Especially when, as is always the case in these situations, we do not have all the details including, crucially, mothers' (and/or fathers') intuition (not an airy-fairy concept, but a name for the types of complex - and often highly accurate - judgments which parents are unable to verbalise).

In relation to the doctor thing, I think we do way too much medicalisation and the attitude of "always best to take them to the doctor" is, to my mind, frankly wrong. Doctors are great for some things. They don't have all the answers, and we're constantly having to make judgments about what to take and not take the kids for. If we didn't, the NHS would collapse.

Rant over.

So, Viva - yes, this sounds like reflux to me (though I'm not a doctor). Especially if "burpy" rather than associated with full-on wretching. Often described as a "sicky burp". Usually not serious and very common, but may be worth checking if you feel it's affecting your daughter as, in my understanding, it can sometimes cause scarring (and often discomfort). Best of luck with it.

lougle Mon 04-Mar-13 17:30:49

I'm sure as a veteran of MN, viva is not surprised in the least wink

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 17:38:07

Thanks ClockWatchingLady. I do appreciate the helpful comments you and others such as Sirzy, Flisspaps, Catlady have made. Sorry if I've missed anyone out.

I know that Bafana apologised and said she had only been answering my first couple of posts when she hadn't got a full picture. Saying I then gave further information which changed things. Then I think is it my fault for not giving dd's full medical history, etc in my first post.....but I don't think it is. I hadn't posted asking if people thought I was been neglectful by not taking her earlier so no I hadn't posted everything, didn't feel at first I needed to.

But people were very happy to stick the boot in without knowing the full picture or even asking if there were things I was thinking it could have been. I was fairly sure what the Dr would do today and I was right. It had crossed my mind not to take her but to try the gaviscon route myself first but I did think that enough is enough and took her.

But even of things had been different and I should have taken her earlier - is it really helpful to jump up and down calling another poster neglectful and saying that I have to live with myself when I've made dd suffer, etc? I know it's all words on a screen, etc but people wouldn't be so nasty in real life.

mawbroon Mon 04-Mar-13 17:40:07

DS1 had no history of reflux and started burping and being sick in his mouth when he was 6.

Turns out it was the incorrect swallowing action caused by his tongue tie causing him to swallow air alongside food which wasn't chewed properly because he couldn't manoevre the food properly in his mouth.

We got his tie revised and it stopped straight away. The docs were all for putting him on meds for life hmm

Could it be something similar? I had no idea ds1 was tied until I started reading about it, his tongue looked completely normal to me but we had had trouble breastfeeding in the early days which was the only clue.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 17:46:49

I don't think she's got a tongue tie, she breast fed for 16 months no problem.

She's now refusing to eat her dinner as she says she doesn't want to be sick.

She's saying she's not going to eat anymore. Apparently she didn't have any lunch. I know she didn't have breakfast as she's not eaten breakfast for ages.

So now we're having a row. I've told her she has to sit at the table till bedtime whether she eats it or not.

I know I'm doing the wrong thing but don't know what to do. I never wanted to have battles about food.

She's now saying she feels sick so she can't eat it. And I don't believe her that she feels sick as she wasn't feeling sick 5 minutes ago.

MinnesotaNice Mon 04-Mar-13 17:52:39

When I was roughly 13 or 14, I had similar symptoms. I would wake up feeling normal in the morning, go to school, then feel nauseous shortly after a small lunch. After going home several days in a row, my mom got me in to see the doctor. Turns out I had a stomach ulcer. Not sure if that was considered? Hope your daughter feels better soon.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Mon 04-Mar-13 18:02:05

i honestly think this is all attention.

viva - where is the discipline when it comes to spitting vomit on your carpet? that is vile. she surely knows that it's disgusting so why doesn't she attempt to run to the toilet? it is this behavior that definitely makes me think it's attention. also the refusal to take the gaviscon before even trying kind of says 'i don't really need it because there isn't anything wrong with me anyway.'

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 18:03:45

Ds1 started doing similar when he was 8. With him it's reflux, which was initially caused by gluten intolerance - in fact we've been told to treat him as coeliac, because although his blood test was negative (he'd just had a norovirus bug and didn't eat anything for over a week, let alone enough gluten for the test) his food diary showed a clear correlation between symptoms and gluten intake and the paed felt it was severe enough to go completely gluten free.

He has now been gluten free for almost two years, but still get's reflux when he is stressed.

His reflux presents exactly the same way as your daughter, nausea, plus small pockets of vomit being brought back at mealtimes.

He doesn't have medication for it, because he hates Gaviscon and other than going the route of acid inhibitors, such as omeprazole there isn't really much else on offer. Omeprazole etc aren't appropriate because the reflux is episodic, rather than permanent. Apparently they used to prescribe chewable Rennie for it, but the drug guidance changed and they no longer do that.

If she's not eating for long periods of time, the acid will build up and make it worse, causing the nausea and then the mini-vomits when she does eat. Breakfast is really important - preferably something like porridge (ds has gluten free oats for his) that takes a while to digest.

Fatty foods will exacerbate it, as will anything too spicy and/or over-stuffing herself.

I can understand why she's making the association between eating and being sick and therefore the logic of not wanting to eat, but little and often throughout the day, starting with breakfast, is the way to go.

As for feeling sick when presented with food, it is actually possible, because the sight of food provokes stomach acid production, which - on an empty stomach - will trigger the whole cycle.

Could you perhaps try her with some low fat, neutral food to start with, while she builds her eating back up - thinking perhaps fat-free yoghurt or similar?

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Mon 04-Mar-13 18:05:06

oh and when i was about 12 someone told me about eating disorders and i thought id have a go at having one. it was all attention i thought it would be cool. i stopped eating for ages but in the end i quit. cuz i got hungry. the things 12yo girls will do for attention is unreal.

ALovelyBunchOfCoconuts Mon 04-Mar-13 18:06:23

but obviously i might be wrong grin

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 18:07:46

She's eaten her dinner.

I've told her anymore spitting/sicking on the carpet will mean she has to clear it up. I was telling her off before but then always fall for the "I can't help it" routine.

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 18:08:24

ALovelyBunch, from my experience with ds, there is no way he would make it to the bathroom in time and our bathroom is close to the dining room. It's a sudden forceful 'reflux' of food, so there's little time to react - and in ds's case he always freezes when he's sick anyway.

I do agree that she should be involved in cleaning it up though. If she has to at least help each time, you'd soon find out if she has any control over it.

Ds really couldn't handle Gaviscon, although he normally loves anything minty. For him it's the texture, although to be fair he has Aspergers and sensory problems with pasty food textures.

You can buy chewable Gaviscon, personally I dislike those more than the liquid, as they sort of foam up in your mouth - but it might be worth a try.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 18:14:12

Moosemama, that's interesting about spicy foods making it worse. She had curry last night and though she was fine yesterday today has been a bad day.

I would love for her to eat breakfast but she dislikes toast, bagels, sandwiches, all cereals inc pop tarts, fruit, yoghurt, pancake, omelette, bacon butties, porridge.

I make her a big hot chocolate every morning so at least she's getting a load of milk.

I've told her she has to stop drinking lemonade as well because fizzy drinks won't be helping I wouldn't have thought. Should probably have thought of that before. grin

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 18:14:50

I'm going to get her gaviscon tablets for school.

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 18:21:46

Hmm, hate to say it, but too much milk tends to set ds off as well. So the hot chocolate might be exacerbating things. We do have dairy intolerance in the family though (I hate to even think about that possibility with ds though as he is already, a gluten free staunch vegetarian with sensory related food issues hmm).

You're absolutely right about fizzy drinks. Fortunately they are another thing ds can't cope with sensory-wise, so we haven't had to deal wit that one.

Re breakfast. What foods does she like? Not necessarily breakfast foods, but just anything to make sure she has something every morning and then regularly throughout the day.

If she had a curry yesterday and was fine, but bad today, is there any chance that it's worse on school days? Just thinking a) that she probably eats less on school days - there can be competition in secondary schools for which girl can survive on the least food hmm and/or b) that if there is an anxiety/stress element to it, that relates to the social side of school, she might not even be aware of it, but you would probably find it's worse on weekdays, then settles a bit at the weekend.

I would advise starting to make a note in your diary every time she says she feels sick or is actually sick and seeing if there is any pattern to it. A food diary would be even better. Just quickly note down what she's eaten each day and underneath any symptoms. This was ultimately what helped us untangle what was going on for ds1.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 18:23:56

Food diarys a good idea, will start that today and try and work out triggers whether its food or school days.

Short of cooking her a jacket potato or cheesy pasta I don't know what she could have at breakfast and I'm not sure shed feel like those first thing!

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 18:57:38

Hmm, poached or boiled egg? Crackers, low fat rice pudding, smoothie?

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 19:03:59

No to eggs, no to rice pudding she might have crackers. Will try those.

She goes through phases of eating stuff, nice upon a time she would happily have had boiled eggs and soldiers it was all she wanted for weeks. Then one day point blank refusal.

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 19:05:07

I make my porridge with finely chopped apple, a spoonful of cinnamon and a quick squirt of agave syrup (you could use golden syrup) - it tastes like apple pie.

Another idea is breakfast muffins, there are loads of different recipes if you google, so bound to be one she likes.

There's even a one-cup, 5-minute recipe for one here

I have made these muffins for my lot a few times and they really like them. I know it's an Annabel Karmel recipe, but it's actually really nice.

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 19:06:11

I do understand what it's like when they have very firm ideas about what they will/won't eat, by the way - I'm not nagging, just trying to see if I can come up with anything to help.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 19:10:14

No I appreciate it, thanks. Will look at muffin recipes.

I'm upstairs now and though I can't hear the exact details she's laughing to Dh telling him about something funny she and her friends did at school today. hmm

All I got was sobbing about how she has no friends.

Badvoc Mon 04-Mar-13 19:18:09

I think you are the opposite of neurotic tbh!
I would be asking/expecting blood tets, some ppi's (like omeprazole) and a referral to a gastro.
What she is experiencing is not normal...probably not serious either given her age, but definitely not normal.

redwellybluewelly Mon 04-Mar-13 19:19:27

I had stress induced GERD, (gastro esophageal reflux disease) a decade or so ago. I had very very similar symptoms to your DD but was never sick on the carpet

It sounds to me like she is very unhappy at school and that food choices and this burping/sickness is to a degree something she can control. Her unwillingness to attempt to get well rings alarm bells as it suggests she is rather liking the attention.

The drugs I was on were omeprazole and ranitidine and I was on them about eight months, eventually the cure was to eat regular small meals and to avoid any trigger foods. I cut out everything acidic (including tomatoes and fruit), reduced both my dairy and my gluten intake, cut down on sugar and fat and ensured I maintained a healthy weight. I got very little sympathy from my wider family but DP was a star.

Now I am pg its back to haunt me!

Badvoc Mon 04-Mar-13 19:22:25

Oh, and my dad has this issue ATM, and it's very distressing for him.
The gp,seems to think its muscular.
He had had an endoscopy and that was clear.
Has she had the h pylori test? (Stomach ulcer)
Protein for breakfast is key here I think, and I would cut out the milk..that could actually be making the problem worse.
Would she eat fish fingers and beans for breakfast?
I know it sounds old, but it not miles away from kippers!
Omelette?
Cheesy muffins? ( I do mine with pizza topping and grated mozerella)

giraffesCantDateDucks Mon 04-Mar-13 19:30:39

Food diary seems like a good plan.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 19:32:09

The dr wasn't sure about her having a ppi, he said he'd rather try gaviscon first and if that doesn't work he'll refer to a paed who can make the decision about a ppi.

VivaLeBeaver Mon 04-Mar-13 19:34:02

She hasn't been tested for h pylori. Ill ask about that when we go back in two weeks.

Badvoc Mon 04-Mar-13 19:51:11

Gaviscon is ok,as far as it goes, but babies use ppi's, they are perfectly safe.
Your gp sounds a bits useless tbh.
A food diary is a good idea.
I think that - as hard as this is (and believe me, I know!) - dont react to the food issues.
I don't hold with the if they are hungry they will eat it brigade, that way eating disorders lie imo, but don't let her see how worried/annoyed/angry you are.
Make sure you provide food she likes and will eat, try not to worry too much about nutritional value at this stage.
My mum had h pylori and was sick a few times with it. Also made her have bad stomach pains.
A course of ABs cures it.

moosemama Mon 04-Mar-13 20:06:37

I'm afraid I don't agree with ppi's being perfectly safe. I was on omeprazole myself for quite a while and had really bad side effects. They suit some people better than others and there's a long list of side effects if they don't suit you.

They are appropriate in some cases, but not all. I wasn't happy for ds1 to go on them and neither was his paed.

There are alternatives though and I would definitely advise trying for a paed referral to go through the options - the food/symptom diary will really help there.

Stress/anxiety can cause you to swallow air while eating. I'm not surprised she is refusing Gaviscon as it tastes rank. Obviously it can be very useful, but the taste/texture can make me gag.

Badvoc Tue 05-Mar-13 09:17:13

I didn't get on with omeprazole either moose but have been on lansoprazole for years now with no side effects.
There are many to try, you have to persevere sometimes wrt meds, or at least that's what I have found.
Yes, gaviscon is gross smile

crashdoll Tue 05-Mar-13 09:29:15

Omeprazole (and other PPIs) are safe in that they won't cause any serious long-term problems. However, some people do suffer side-effects. I went on omeprazole and had terrible stomach pains and diarrhea. I tried it again 6 months later and I have been taking it for a while now, no side effects and no puking into my mouth everytime I bend over.

moosemama Tue 05-Mar-13 09:39:47

Badvoc, I've read some rather worrying papers on the long-term use of PPIs. I don't want to link, because I don't want to be accused of scaremongering and they are freely available online if you Google.

My GP and ds1's Paed both told me that they prefer not to use them with children unless they've tried everything else first and been unsuccessful, because there is currently a lot of debate about their safety.

I went onto Lansoprazole for a while and tolerated it better, but chose to come off them after reading some of the research mentioned above and now only use them for discrete periods when I am having particularly bad problems or having to take high dose NSAIDs.

Mrsrobertduvall Tue 05-Mar-13 09:45:37

She seems to have a lot of stress with school, friends etc.
Does your school have a counsellor either she can go to (although she may refuse) or you can talk to privately?

Dd 16 has ocd, and a lot of food issues. She controlled everything at school as she didn't want anyone to know.

toddlerama Tue 05-Mar-13 09:50:56

Try a teaspoon of apple cider vinegar instead of the gaviscon. It will burn for a second or two, but tells the stomach to stop churning up the acid whereas the gaviscon 'dilutes' it and the stomach will fight back, producing more. You can get into a nasty dependency cycle with antacids. She wont enjoy it, but she may well only have to do it once! I sorted mine out like this. If you goole it there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to support it as a cure and it wont damage her even if it doesn't work.

She sounds like she has some anxiety issues which I hope you can help her with. Please don't take the fact that she was laughing with her dad about friends to mean that she isn't lonely. She could simply be retelling a story she witnessed rather than an anecdote about close friends. I really feel for her - this could have been written about me at this age and I ended up with bulimia seemingly incongruously (I wasn't underweight and the usual warning signs weren't there. I just felt like I needed to vomit after eating. It went on into my 20s shock ). It's taken me a very long time to understand how to be comfortable in a crowd and the transition to secondary school was when the insecurity started. I couldn't possibly have articulated what the problem was so I had nausea and stomach pains every morning for 6 years. My mum put it down to travel sickness in the car.

Zipbangboom Tue 05-Mar-13 09:59:52

Can you see another doctor?
My 10 year old has always been quite sicky and we've never got to the bottom of it. I think the more they are sick the easier it comes. He doesn't get tummy ache. Is she quite a slow eater? Does it help if she drinks lots of water?
I'm really interested to see what answer you get- good luck.

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