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Precocious Puberty?

(100 Posts)
Aji Fri 12-Oct-12 21:11:16

Dd is 5, nearly 6. This summer I noticed that she was starting to sweat with "adult" body odour from her armpits.

Tonight she asked me about a hair in her bottom, and showed me what looks like a pubic hair.

I had a look on the internet (the term I found was "precocious puberty", which talks about signs of puberty in girls before 6-8 - www.nhs.uk/conditions/puberty/pages/complications.aspx) and am going to make a doctor's appointment for her next week. She is quite tall for her age.

I wanted to ask if anyone had also experienced this with their children, and how they dealt with it? Am worried sad.

SElady Sat 13-Oct-12 01:30:55

Hi there. We're right in the middle of the investigations with our DD who is 7.

Also this summer we've noticed some very fine pubic hair which are now getting a little bit darker and stronger. Made appt with gp who referred us to a pediatrician. She was examined by the ped who noted the fine hair and also said that DD's private bits down there were a little bit more developed than her age. She had a bone x-ray done which showed that her bone age is currently about 10-11 months ahead of her real age. Based on this, our pediatrician consulted an endocrinologist and ordered some blood tests to measure her hormone levels. We've done the bloodtest this week of which we haven't got the results yet. Also this week she had a pelvic ultrasound done to see what her womb and ovaries look like - all normally developing according to her age, which was a big relief. Whilst at the hospital I've also asked the doctor to have a look at her kidneys, especially the adrenal glands, she didn't see anything abnormal there either.

As mentioned above, we're now waiting for the blood test result after which, hopefully, her ped will have a better idea whether we're dealing with a "simple case" of premature adrenarche/pubarche or it is precocious puberty.

My DD is also tall for her age, nearly 128 cm, but she's always been tall and her growth/year has always been systematic and has never gone above the normal.
She doesn't have BO and no other symptoms are present at the moment. Having said that she does suffer from mood swings from time to time which could also be a symptom of some hormonal imbalance. Have you noticed this with your DD?

Whilst searching on the net I've come across a very good medical study - which has now become my bible - it explains all the possible conditions associated with the different symptoms and how the diagnoses should be made. It's saved on my other laptop, but will link it here in the morning. Hope this helps. Will come again tomorrow.

SElady Sat 13-Oct-12 10:24:49

Hello again, don't seem to find the weblink to where you can download the above study, pls try and do a search for "Clinical Expression of Precocious Puberty in Girls", the authors are Charles Sultana, Laura Gaspari, Nicolas Kalfa and Françoise Parisa (it's a 17 page pdf doc) - maybe you'll have better luck than me. Let me know if can't find it.

Aji Sat 13-Oct-12 15:07:52

Thanks for replying. I can't think of much else at the moment, she's so young and innocent sad.

Dd isn't moody, in general she's quite happy but quite quiet too. She's the best behaved of my children by a mile grin. She doesn't seem bothered by the pubic hair "no one can see it underneath my clothes", none of us have mentioned the armpit odour. I guess I'm worried about her being bullied in school at some stage. I didn't get my period till I was 11, I'm hoping it won't be too early for her.

I'll try and get some time to chat with the GP on Monday and see if they can see her after school sometime in the week. Thanks for giving me some ideas of what might come.

EdithWeston Sat 13-Oct-12 15:13:20

This happened to the 6 year old DD of some friends. She was referred to a paediatric endocrinologist, but I don't know exactly what followed the referral, sorry. I think the aim was to slow it down until she was 9ish, but I think the options depend on what they decide is going on. She's now in her teens and AFAIK there are no issues now.

basildonbond Sat 13-Oct-12 21:57:49

a friend's dd was diagnosed with this when she was about your daughter's age, OP

she had hormone treatment to suppress puberty from the age of 5 to 10 which stopped about 6 months ago (she's now in Y6)

the treatment she was on stopped her from starting periods, BO and breasts growing but didn't AFAIK stop pubic hair from growing

they're now just waiting to see what happens from now on but everything seems normal at the moment

SElady Sat 13-Oct-12 23:41:21

Aji, we've also been very careful not to worry DD unnecessarily. The first appt with our GP was only between me and the doctor and when DD was examined at a later date we just told her that it's normal for 7 yrs olds to have these "routine" checks and mom and dad also had them when they were young. She's not asking any questions yet and seems to be accepting our explanations. I'm also not sure if she's fully aware of the pubic hair as it is really not noticeable at the moment, you can only see it up close. Well, she has never mentioned it anyway, but once (hopefully soon) we know what we're dealing with I'll sit down with her to have a little chat about it.

Having read extensively about the subject, it seems to me that even if the diagnosis turns out to be a variant of precocious puberty, hormone treatments are not that commonplace. Your doctor would need a lot of evidence that a young girl would almost definitely start puberty abnormally early before they suggest taking hormones.

Well, I am hopeful that we won't have to make a decision whether to go down that route or not. I wish the same for you too.

Theas18 Sun 14-Oct-12 00:10:10

Btdtgt as they say!

Dd2 was maybe 7? Whn it all started. We had the bloods, bone age etc. and she had what they said was premature adrenarche ( the hair and smell/acne) and premature thelarche ( boobs) but apparently not true precocious puberty.

In girls these odd premature hormonal things are almost always benign ( big warning though. In boys they almost always are not - so ealy hair / BO te before age 8 in boys is important).

What happened for us is, well, nothing was done in the way if treatment. She had a change if consultants and the delay and apathy of the 2nd ment us was too late , which angered me at the time but actually I'm sure was the best course of action.

She really seemed to have a normal primary school time. She wasn't the only 1 in a crop top bra in year 4 anyway and didn't start her periods till 11yrs 3 months, which strangely was the same age as her " normal" elder sister.

Now she's 13 and still a moody old cow at times - the mood swings just have gone one for ever!

Really the only need to treat precocious puberty is to preserve growth potential. The rest - hair, smell, moods, periods can be dealt with by good parenting and supportive help at school- look at the year 5-6 girls - many are very mature these days. dd2 did very much remain a little girl - she didn't become a proper teen or anything - she was just a an 8-9-10yr old with boobs and hair - didn't bother her or her mates. I have fond memories of a year 6 leavers amount trip for about 10 of her best mates ( and the families ) when they were rampaging around the campsite in swimming cossies for a big water fight- she had a very grown up figure and they were little girls (and she was taller then) but no one cared or commented.

Not sure if dd2 is short because of her hormonal issues - dd 1 is exactly the same height at 5 foot 1.

I do wonder if it's all odd genetics in our family as ds is 6 foot 1-2 now ( lol a full foot taller than his sisters) but had a relatively early puberty- with a fully broken voice at just 13.

Pm me if I can help further.

Theas18 Sun 14-Oct-12 00:18:16

The only slightly annoying bit this far down the line is helpful people telling her she will grow more because " your only 13" if her height is mentioned ( she would of course like to be taller) . There is no chance she will . Her bone age was 13-14 at 10 or 11. I just gently remind her that I'm afraid she really won't grown and her mates - yes evn the diddy ones, will probably shoot past her (at 13 there are stil a few who haven't really got going puberty wise - its all n variation)

ohnowwhat Tue 16-Oct-12 09:30:21

Our daughter (7) has had bone age test also and ovary scan.
She has body odour for which we use a pitroc roll-on as its not chemically.
She also has pubic hair.now and again she will say, this hair is getting longer and I feel a bit sad that she looks a bit too grown up down there.
(She was 6 when it became obvious.)
Her results were fine (she is tall though now not the tallest in her class)
but the doctor who saw us said that if she started complaining about joint pain to get in touch. This was last November. now I have got back in touch(just waiting for him to get back to us) because she is complaining more frequently of pains in her joints. Previously I put it down to sleeping arkward on her arm, or her knees hurt-'you fell over the other day its probably that' ankles-you might have cockled/ran and wrenched it..etc... She has always had joints that 'popped' when carrying her or she would do something and she would say 'did you hear that-it was my knee!' and we thought that she had taken after daddy mil and aunt with bad knees or something.
Now I am a bit scared in case it is anything more sinister.
Sorry for hijacking this thread but thought it seemed relevant on here with the precosious (sp?) puberty.
Daughter seems well in herself and Aji I would definatly recomend pitroc it works great, she doesn't smell 'oniony' at all when she has used it. We also get her to wash her armpits every day and her 'ladybits'

SElady Tue 16-Oct-12 10:02:09

Ohnow - did your doctor not say at the time what it could mean if she started complaining about joint pain? Did they give you any advice on how you could change your lifestyle in order to minimise symptoms, i.e. changing her diet? I've come across some American sites where parents discuss their DC with such problems and noticed they go to extraordinary lenghts to change their DC's diets.
Let us know how you get on.

ohnowwhat Tue 16-Oct-12 14:47:11

Hi, SE, no the doctor never told us what it might be. I wish I had asked now. they never mentioned diet changes either... I will look see if I can find the American stuff. I am hoping they call sooner rather than later, hopefully within the next hour!
I keep getting quivery tummy!

Aji Tue 16-Oct-12 16:17:24

Thanks all for your messages. I spoke to the doctor yesterday and dd will go and see another (we don't have a set doctor at our practice, just see whoever's available) on Friday. It had been a long day and I was surprised how teary I felt speaking with the doctor yesterday. I've told dd that I didn't know why she had a hair in her bottom, so I asked the doctor and that we were going to visit so she could tell us.

One thing I noticed is that dd has been more tearful of late, but I had put this down to tiredness. Now I wonder if it is something to do with her hormones?

It will be a relief to get the process started on Friday - I have been stewing about it for the last few days.

I have a crystal deodorant somewhere which I'll dig out if dd needs it. With winter approaching, I just hope that she won't be sweating too much in the coming months!

ohnowwhat Wed 17-Oct-12 15:11:41

Well I got a call from the doctor today and he thinks that there is nothing to worry about! Yea! He still wants me to moniter the situation and if she has any aching joints that are aching for a long while (which I seem to interpret as between one and two weeks)(stupid me never asked how long is a long time DUH((Thick sound!!))) then I can get back in touch and he will arrange for an xray. He also said that if she starts complaining about her bones aching to get in touch, I think the bones aching is because on the news the other day I half heard something about 'growing pains could actually be signs of bone cancer'
So anyway I am more relieved today.

Aji, when my daughter pionted out her hair to me, she was quiet excited about it and said 'I'm growing into a lady!' At first I was unsure if it was normal for it to happen so young and when I looked on the embarassing bodies website and it said 'See a G.P if you notice any signs of puberty before the age of8' (or something along those lines) I quietly panicked. I knew she had body odour and had for a while, but thought that that was some freak inheritance off me cos sometimes I get really bad b.o! She also sometimes gets what looks like acne across her cheeks and nose, very small whitish bumps. I didn't realise that that was a sign and just thought she wasn't drinking enough water!
When I took her to doctors though I told her that I thought she was maybe growing up a bit too quick and that the doctors would measure her and weigh her and maybe do some tests and also have a look at her to see.
She was embarrased when the nurse had a look at her private parts but I was with her, and before we went in, and when we had come out we had a little talk about private parts and when someone is allowed to have a look etc.
After we had seen the doctor and had the xray for bone age done and then the ovary scan, just like a pregnancy scan. I felt really reasured that if there was a problem they would find it and they could give her something to stop her developing further.(Apparently once the periods start there is only about another five years of bone growth or something like that(can't remember the exact time) so although she was tall she wouldn't grow much taller that she was now. If you know what I mean!)

I hope all your test's come out o.k. Let us know when you know!

SElady Wed 17-Oct-12 15:11:56

ohnow - I'm sure it's nothing sinister otherwise someone would have mentioned something on here (I've read through most threads on precocious puberty) or we would have read about it on the net. Hope they'll soon put your mind at rest.

I too spoke to our consultant yesterday and have also just received a letter from her summarising their findings. So far everything seems to be normal, but still waiting for some specialized hormone test results.

Whilst googling again, I've come across this site, most of it goes above my head (very medical) but it makes an interesting read:

edrv.endojournals.org/content/21/6/671.full

ohnowwhat Thu 18-Oct-12 18:56:07

SE, You're right. I think if there was something sinister the hospital would have made more frequent meetings or something or more test. I have been reading some more stuff (as well as that site and most of it -whoosh- over my head!) some of it is very scare mongering =chemicals in dangerous amounts in the food we eat, shampoo we use etc. But others have been useful ( i lost the page i read it on but there was agood one for describing the diagnoses and my dd's came under 'benign' something or other (andranache or something?) I wish I had kept the page on favourites cos it was very interesting (a bit sciency in parts) this also made my mind easier.
(Also when they did the check up they looked to see if her clitoris was pronounced and that turned out to be normal wich I thinnk is a good sign as that can determine sexual interest, or some similar thing, Just wish I could find that page I tread all about it on!)
Hope your other results are o.k.

Elibean Thu 18-Oct-12 19:11:03

My dd1 had BO aged 4-5 the first time, and I worried about it too - and talked to our GP. She has on other signs of precocious puberty though, and aged nearly 9 her body is fleshing out a bit in line with many of her friends, no more. She does have a few fine pubic hairs, but seems fine about it.

I bought her a natural deodorant (Tom's of Maine) which works very well, so far. There were a couple of years (6-7) when the BO hardly ever happened, then it started coming back on 'sweaty' days when she was 8.

All the girls in her Y4 class look like they are becoming pre-pubescent now....apart from one or two....clear discharge in knickers (I talk to other mums!), hairier legs, body shape generally changing. I cant' believe how early it seems - I looked like a skinny boy till I was at least 12 or 13.

Aji Fri 19-Oct-12 20:50:23

Hi, well we went to the gp today and dd was a star. She has been referred to a paedatrician and we should hear from the hospital in the next few weeks.

ohnowwhat Fri 19-Oct-12 20:54:20

Oh, good luck! Glad your D.D was okay about it!

AMumGoingMad Tue 23-Oct-12 17:48:41

I've been pointed in the direction of this thread by SElady. My dd is 6 and has significant pubic hair and has grown an amazing 10cm in 6 months shock. She's constantly complaining of pain in her legs which is hardly surprising given how quickly she's grown. She's having terrible mood swings as well, crying at nothing one minute and being a moody teenager and being a typical innocent 6yo the next. I took her to the GP yesterday and he's referred her to an endocrine consultant at the hospital to have a look at her. I'm quite worried about her. I can't wait to see the consultant and have my mind put at ease. I'm particularly worried about her height and how to support her emotionally through this as well.

Anyone spoken to the school about this? The GP advised that we do so that they can support her properly. She's got a male NQT who probably doesn't even know whats normal for his gf let alone a 6yo girl!

alwaysworriedtoo Wed 24-Oct-12 09:31:05

Had a name change and its not changing back! (ohnowwhat)

Amum, I really feel for you it is horrible waiting for appointments. I jsy told my d.d that I thought she was growing up a bit too fast and that the doctors will be able to help if she was. I think with the moodyness, just be sypathetic and let her know you will answer any questions -she might not understand waht is happening to her and might even feel a bit scared.I think reasurance and lots of hugs and kisses is a good bet!
(I havn'nt told the school but am wondering if I aught to. Just to make them aware of it. Next year I think I may have to say something as they start swimming. And I know from experience that most schools use communal changing ereas. I don't want her to get picked on, but niether do I want her to feel embarrased or arkward about 'down below'.)

SElady Sun 28-Oct-12 19:41:43

AMum, glad you found us here, it seems to me that there are more and more of us out there, it almost feels a little bit "normal" to be going through these things with our DDs. I haven't had "the talk" yet with my DD (after all it's only a few hair and she doesn't seem to be bothered at all at the moment). We're certainly not planning on involving the school until we know what we're dealing with and even then only if we feel that DD would benefit from the school knowing it. Her year group just stopped doing swimming too, so it was perfect timing.
Ohnow, I too have a great study which explains all the various diagnoses and how each category should be treated. Can't find the link for the life of me, but have it saved on my laptop.
Elibean, your DD just confirms my conclusion that most of the time having individual symtomps (or even a number of them) doesn't necessarily mean a diagnosis of precocious puberty. The height of these girls seem to be the main common factor.
Aji well done to your DD, hope you'll soon hear from the hospital.

I read it in one of these studies that as much as 50% of girls in the UK start their period by the time they are 10 shock. Not sure whether to accept this widespread explanation of chemicals in consumer goods... with DD1, being our first, we made sure she didn't eat anything which was non-organic in the first two years of her life. With our subsequent DC we've found it difficult to maintain this, mainly due to the credit crunchsad. But even today, 7 yrs down the line, I make sure that at home they eat and drink out of non-toxic products, I tend to buy organic bathing stuff for them and outside the house we use Klean Kanteen bottles, so still doing as much as we can to limit their exposure to chemicals and toxins. I know this probably still isn't enough, but I'd like to think that all our efforts weren't in vein.

Our pediatrician seems to be very thorough, ordered a urine test to see if there are steroids in DD's urine - it takes a few weeks to get the result sad. Other than that we're still waiting for the results of some specialist hormone tests...

CouthyMowEatingBraiiiiinz Sun 28-Oct-12 19:55:45

When you say it can be a problem if boys develop BO before age 8 it can be an issue, what do you mean?

I am mildly worried by this statement as DS1 has had to use daily deodorant since age 7.5, he has been very private so I have no clue what he is like 'down there'. He is also 5ft1 at 10y6m, and his voice is going a bit 'up and down', like it does when it starts to break.

He also has the startings of a very fine moustache. It's almost like baby hair (what as a teen I would have called 'bumfluff'. So not needing shaved yet, but probably not long.

Why is the BO before age 8 an issue for boys?

alwaysworriedtoo Tue 30-Oct-12 16:52:26

I'm not sure why it is an issue for boys.? (I thought it was bad enough for girls!) You could maybe look up precocious puberty for boys and see what comes up? Hope you can find some answers.

hugglebug Wed 31-Oct-12 12:12:34

My Dd aged nearly 4 has just started being investigated for precocious puberty. I noticed about 5 months ago that she smelt strongly of BO, almost daily. The Endocrinologist was very non committal and sent her for the radial bone scan and will look at her urine test results before we return in February. Not sure what to think or feel, but worried, of course and sad for her at the prospect of it.

Zhx3 Sun 11-Nov-12 02:15:25

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AMumGoingMad Mon 12-Nov-12 16:11:51

I'm getting increasingly worried. We've not had the appointment through yet for the hospital and in just 3 weeks the changes in my dd are alarming. Her pubic hair is growing really fast and she now has under arm hair which definatly wasn't there when we went to the GP 3 weeks ago. I think its the speed that things are happening with her that worries me. Her height is going mental as well, she's gone through all the percentiles now and is right on the top one in her red book and was born on the 9th.

alwaysworriedtoo Mon 12-Nov-12 16:20:03

Oh poor you. I can see why you are worried. I would get in touch with the doctors again so that they are aware of what is happenening and thay may even try and bring forward your appointment if they are able. I really hope you can get sorted soon.

SElady Mon 12-Nov-12 21:25:49

AMum, I too would try and have her appt brought forward. I'd call both the gp and the hospital to try and speed things along. Let us know how you get on.

hugglebug, have you had the x-ray yet? Do you know what the urine test is for - steroids?

Apparently our DD's specialist hormone test results are back and I have a phone consultation scheduled for tomorrow morning.

How is everyone else doing?

AMumGoingMad Mon 12-Nov-12 21:50:43

I called the GP and they've not done the referral shock. I was meant to get a call back but they didn't. I'm not happy.

SElady, hope that the consultation goes OK tomorrow morning. Let us know the results. Would you mind sharing what tests they have done and what your dd's symptoms / signs are? I'm getting myself into a pickle with google, it seems so complicated as can be so many different variations. I know we just need to see the specialist to get answers and ball rolling on treatment if there is to be any.

mooliebear Mon 12-Nov-12 22:17:55

Can I join in, pleasesmile
I put a post up last month regarding my DD1 who is 6, she has had really strong body odour and aches in her bones for a while now, last month I found pubic hairs after a worms incident, how i did not see them before is beyond me, she also seems to have damp knickers.
I have been to the doctors and she has had the referral for late Febuary but they rang me today to say they want to see her sooner, so they have remade the appointment for the first week in January.
I feel so conscious of it now, ballet she normally just stripes off, knickers included to get her leotard on, swimming is the same, I don't want to freak her out but you can see them, bless her, so young, so innocent.
She is still unaware of the fuss, I am going to have a chat this weekend but how do I go around it without making it into a big deal.

SElady Mon 12-Nov-12 22:29:33

AMum angry and sad, this has happened to us so many times in the past that I had got into the habit of always following up hospital referrals.
Lets hope they'll request an urgent appt now and hopefully you'll get to see someone quicker than you would have originally had! Our hospital has the same policy, they always phone to arrange appts with you then send out the letter.

Our DD (7) had the usual hormone tests done (all normal) and hopefully tomorrow we'll find out about some specialist ones such as ACTH and 17OHP. We're also waiting for her urine test result (for steroids). So far DD has had a pelvic UH (normal) and bone x-ray (10-11 months ahead of her age). Her symptoms are: fine pubic hair and increased height but normal growth/year. Her BMI is also normal. We noticed the pubic hair earlier this year when she was still 6.

I'll be checking back to see how you and your DD are getting on.

SElady Mon 12-Nov-12 22:47:37

Hi mooliebear, is your DD fully aware of any of this? If not, I would definitely not make a big deal out of it. I find the pubic hair the most "scary" out of all the symptoms too as it tends to develop so rapidly.
Early January is not too far off now, hang in there!

AMumGoingMad Tue 13-Nov-12 18:53:43

We've gone round in big circles today and I don't think we'll be staying at our GP for any longer than it takes to get a satisfactory answer to our formal written complaint that they will be receiving. Its been shoddy and diabolical and at the heart of it all is a 6 year old who is being let down badly.

mooliebear Tue 13-Nov-12 21:36:25

AMum I am so sorry, I know how worrying it is but with the added stress of the referral not being made just makes it worsesad
The longer you wait the further into it they are going, I do hope its gets sorted ASAP for your DD. Big hug from Devon.

Aji Wed 14-Nov-12 00:49:46

I hope you get some decent service soon AMum.

Well, dd had her hospital appointment today. She was quite excited to be picked up from school early, and was fine throughout the consultation with the paediatrician. He doesn't think it's true precocious puberty, as he says there would normally be more signs and it would show pretty soon after birth.

She gave a urine sample, and had to give a blood sample sad. She was all confident throughout the appointment until the nurse took her blood - she had to try in both arms and poor dd was so shocked (first time) that she started crying and didn't stop for a good 30 minutes. It made me realise that I didn't have to give a blood sample until I was pregnant with her at 29.

We have an appointment to go back in January when the results will be through, and she will also have an ultrasound of her stomach in a month or so to check that her adrenal glands are not enlarged.

AMumGoingMad Wed 14-Nov-12 09:17:55

Aji Glad that the appointment went well until the blood test sad. At least she's in the system and being investigated. I didn't think that they could only get it soon after birth, in fact everything I've read indicates it can be anytime from birth with a peak around 6 years.

My dd has woken today with 2 spots on her beautiful face sad. Its all happening so quickly for her and I am totally lost in getting her looked at and investigated by a specialist. I never knew I would have to fight and push so hard to get her to see a paed and I'm used to fighting the system with my ds as he has SN and believe me I thought I had had fights before but they have been nothing compared to this experience. I'm waiting for 2 phone calls today from people who might be able to help get this referral sorted. Just hope that they do call me. I'm not going to go out at all until I've had them though.

SElady Wed 14-Nov-12 13:29:53

Well done to your DD Aji - very brave little girl smile! Can sympathise with the "double" blood test, we have a very panicky DD1 and all the diverting attention tactics in the world fail when it comes to taking blood from her. Luckily we've recently discovered that she is absolutely fine as long as she can watch when they take the blood. It may sound weird but I think it gives her comfort that she sees - therefore understands - what's going on around her.

Not doubting what your doctor said, but I too had this conversation with our consultant whether there would have been signs for us to see from an earlier age in our DD1 to indicate precocious puberty which we may have missed and the answer was a firm 'no'. She said the symptoms can occur in any order and at any time before the age of 7 (in girls). The underlying cause may well be there from even before a child is born but it varies from person to person when symptoms visible to the eye develop.
I've been meaning to ask if your DD had a bone x-ray done?

AMum, I really feel your pain regarding how you feel about your surgery! I'm no medical expert just trying to think logically.... but could it really be that your DD's symptoms evolve this rapidly? I'm not talking about the hair, but it may just be a coincidence that she developed those spots on her face. Does she touch her face very often? Isn't she a thumb-sucker by any chance? We have this ongoing battle with our DD1 and she constantly has various blemishes on her face because she just can't control her wondering fingers...

I do hope you get some positive news today regarding your hospital appointment!!! I was going to ask whether you've thought of starting the investigations private... Mind you, round our way even a consultation would set you back at least £200 and that is without any investigative procedures sad. However, if you do have cover it's definitely worth considering!

Another option would be to ask your GP to order the necessary tests whilst you're waiting, they may say no, but it's worth a try.

Our hormone tests all came back negative, the urine is still outstanding. I've started to relax, but still feel very curious as to what's causing the development of pubic hair in such a young child and how come none of these tests have shown up anything (yet)?!? I've started to blame myself and our manic lifestyle and convinced myself that perhaps stress must have something to do with DD's symptoms hmm...

gottasmile Wed 14-Nov-12 14:07:02

Hello,
I've just been reading all your stories and it's so worrying for you. I wanted to ask if amongst all the other signs, that breast/nipple enlargement was one of them?

My dd (4.5 yrs old) had a very red and enlarged nipple about a month ago and I had no idea why. It wasn't sore, but definitely noticable by both her and me. Now her "breasts" seem bigger (this could be my imagination). Luckily it just looks like they've got some puppy fat in this area. Also luckily that we don't have any other signs, but I'm just wondering if there's more to come as she's only 4.

Thank you.

AMumGoingMad Wed 14-Nov-12 14:57:01

SElady Glad that your dd's results were normal. What a relief for you.

My dd is not a thumb sucker any longer (stopped about a year ago). She's had greasy hair for a couple of months now before the hair came. The spots are new. Its the speed that things are progressing with her that scares me the most. We've made small progress today. We're going back to the GP to get another referral instigated. Poor love is going to have to be examined again but quite frankly I don't care now, she needs to get to a specialist ASAP in my eyes because of the speed things seem to be happening for her. I've done some reading about rapid onset precocious puberty and so her speed isn't unheard of but worrying.

gottasmile Breast enlargement can be a sign from what I've read. We think our dd has got some breast tissue forming but like you we can't tell if its just puppy fat although my dd is skinny as a rake elsewhere. If you are worried you could go down to your GP and see what they think.

gottasmile Wed 14-Nov-12 17:32:26

Thank you AMumGoingMad, my dd is not skinny (but not fat, just quite solid). I think I might ask a GP just in case.

Sorry for the hijack Aji and good luck with the results.

AMumGoingMad Thu 15-Nov-12 09:28:13

I found this this morning.

Interesting that they think there is a link between low birth weight and rapid onset and progression of precocious puberty. My dd is a twin. She was a good weight for a twin but it was obvious from the beginning that she had had growth restricted because she went from the 9th percentile to the 50th percentile in the space of a few months. She then sat on the 50th percentile until recently.

mooliebear Thu 15-Nov-12 22:50:05

Just been listening to this on woman's hour BBC radio4, quite interesting.
Sorry on my phone and it won't link it, Google this, early puberty woman's hour June 2012, sorry, hope you get to listen to it.

SElady Fri 16-Nov-12 11:27:57

AMum, I remember reading about the low birth weight early puberty onset connection, too. It would certainly be true for us, as my DD1 weighed just only 6 lbs (2760 g) when she was born. Feel slightly scared for our DD2 now, who was even smaller at 5.9 lbs (2680 g). Both normal deliveries at full term though. Interestingly, only my DS had gone over 7 lbs.

Also read that pre-term babies had a higher chance of early onset of puberty, possibly because of the low birth weight?

AMumGoingMad Fri 16-Nov-12 13:24:53

This is the link to the Womans Hour programme. Interesting listening.

AMumGoingMad Fri 16-Nov-12 14:52:35

We've received a general paediatric appointment at the local hospital in a months time. I am not impressed angry. I'm going to speak to the GP on Monday and ask for a private referral. I don't care about money right now, £200 is what I had allocated and saved for Christmas presents for me and dh, we won't have Christmas presents, I don't want them, I want dd seen.

MammyKaz Mon 19-Nov-12 14:58:04

I hope you don't mind me joining this thread. My heart is going out to all of you going through this, it seems to take such a long time to get tests, results, appointments etc.
We're just starting our path too with our DD who is only 27 months old. She has had BO since the summer & I recently noted several dark pubic hairs. She's had blonde downy pubic hair for a while but I didn't give that too much thought as she didn't loose all her newborn fluff. We're paying for a private apt for 2 wks time as I just can't wait for nhs, I'm totally freaking out about it.
She does seem to get excessively upset about stuff at times but I was putting it down to terrible twos . I'm starting to log her moods now to see if there are any patterns. Also, she seems to be much more tired recently - is anyone else's LO experiencing that? I can't bear thinking about how her little body is trying to cope with toddlerdom & puberty at the same time!
I can't seem to find any information about puberty starting quite as young as this. Naturally I'm panicking about the reasons why. Thanks for the various links to info I will be reading in detail.
One thing that I will be considering is a natural support, a friend is a homeopath & will recommend various remedies depending on what we find out. I'm not going to rely on this in isolation but whilst monitoring etc is going on I would rather not pump a load of hormones into an already confused little body.
Hugs to you all

AMumGoingMad Tue 20-Nov-12 10:25:37

MammyKaz Glad that you have found us, we're a small bunch but we all understand the worry that these symptoms cause even if it doesn't turn out to be proper puberty. Your DD is so little sad. I'm not surprised you are paying for a private appointment, the NHS has been appauling for us but where we live we can access one of the best childrens hospitals in the country which would be best for our DD if only the GP would actually refer to there. Hope that the appointment goes well for you. I'll be interested to hear what your friend suggests. Good idea about keeping a diary of her moods. I think I might do that between now and when ever we see someone.

We're still waiting to hear anything and I can't phone the hospital today as I was told middle to end of the week so thats tomorrow at the earliest. I happen to be at that hospital with my ds tomorrow so I might ask the receptionist if she can see anything on the system for my dd whilst I'm there.

alwaysworriedtoo Tue 20-Nov-12 17:02:22

(((HUGS))) to all.
I am so glad we had such a good referal and doctor. We had no problems. Even the specialist who saw our DD was great and gave me his number (not his personal number! his office number) so that if anything else came up we could ring his secetary right away and get a call from him rather than going through the doctors and appointment process again. We have been lucky.
MammyKaz I think natural remedies is a good idea. Hope everything turns out well for you.

MammyKaz Tue 20-Nov-12 20:11:11

Thanks ladies, it is great to have found others that can really understand what's going on. DH is in constant denial that anythings really going on! Frustrating but his coping method.

AMumGoingMad- did you manage to find out anything further today. Really hope you get a quick appointment. The wait is the most frustrating part. Even our private paediatrician appointment is a 2week wait. I'm calmly chasing the possibility of cancellations. Can it be that this condition is so low on the priority scale?

Several of thestories I've come across referred to tracking behaviour to support diagnosis & as DD isn't able to describe what's going on I want to have as much info as possible.

Alwaysworriedtoo - so glad you're having a good doctor experience. I'm crossing my fingers our paed will be similar. I'll let you know what my homeopath friend thinks, based on any results we get whenever we get them. I'm terrified sad

On a plus note she's a much calmer, happier kid today smile

Aji Tue 20-Nov-12 21:07:30

Hi MammyKaz, I'm glad you found this thread. My dh is a little in denial too, but I guess now that she's been referred to the paediatrician, he trusts that there will be a proper diagnosis and appropriate treatment.

SELady, I asked the paediatrician about a bone scan and he seemed surprised. He said it wasn't commonly done, but obviously it would depend on the results of the blood and urine tests.

Gottasmile, no hijack at all - this isn't "my" thread! GP did check for signs of breast development when we initially went to see her - there weren't any with dd but GP did say that they would have been more worried if there had been.

AMumGoingMad Tue 20-Nov-12 22:36:08

I have shared some of the links on here with my dh to try and get him to take it all more seriously. Its worked and he's now saying exactly the same things as me and supporting dd much better.

We've not made any progress today but I didn't expect to. I'm in the childrens hospital for ds tomorrow (different department) so I'm going to see if the receptionist will look up to see if dd's got an appointment on the system yet. I've spent today trying to keep busy to keep my mind on other days. DD has had a very teary day sad, I find this almost harder than the hair etc.

Hopefully tomorrow evening we'll have some news on her appointment. I really hope we do. My gut feeling is that there is something not right with her and my gut has never been wrong before with everything with my ds in the last few years.

MammyKaz Wed 21-Nov-12 15:16:13

Hi Aji, AMumGoingMad
Glad your DHs are starting to understand more. I guess they find it harder to understand & I know my DH can't bear the thought that anything is wrong with DD. But an ostrich approach helps no-one. He's parking thinking till we see the consultant & it gets more real hmm
Definitely trust your gut, you know your child better than anyone & no matter what the end result is i feel its always better to know. Keeping my fingers crossed on your apt.

Has anyone been offered, or asked for, counselling for your child or yourself? Maybe no-one is that far down the line. If we have to go through a load of tests I just don't know how to deal with DD- not that I know how to deal with her moods much at the moment either smile

SELady - thanks so much for the report you mentioned. It's the clearest piece of detailed information that I can actually understand! I will be keeping it close at hand.

AMumGoingMad Wed 21-Nov-12 17:10:04

My dd's school and us have asked for advice on giving DD emotional support but have been refused hmm for now until a dx has been reached because apparently the tears and sadness can be caused by 2 things, either not coping with the physical changes or the hormones pulsing through their body. If its hormones then it all stops with hormone treatment so no emotional support needed (will reserve judgement on that until I see it). If its not coping with the physical changes then they need specialist support but they can't be referred for that until precocious puberty has been ruled out or is being treated. I guess it all makes sense but its so slow and dd is just getting more and more teary and withdrawn sad. I just want my happy little girl back more than anything now sad.

AMumGoingMad Thu 22-Nov-12 11:15:39

MammyKaz Do you mind sharing who you are going to see? We're looking into getting dd a private referral now.

MammyKaz Thu 22-Nov-12 14:37:16

Hi, no I don't mind sharing although we may not be in the same part of the country we're in Somerset. We moved here only 2 months ago which is another stress all in itself - we know No-One!
I'll pm you the details.

Given that the only hormone treatment I've seen reference to is by monthly injection likely for several years I can't see how no emotional support is required! And you need it NOW not just when dx is confirmed angry. Our children are not lab rats gggrrrr. Sorry I'm very emotional about it & The thoughts of what they are going through just makes me weep.

I'm sure you are giving your DD all the love & support necessary to help her through it & it sounds like the school are being understanding too which must be a relief.

AMumGoingMad Wed 05-Dec-12 22:21:29

We saw a general paed today (by accident but I don't care, in the hospital for another reason and the dr didn't like what he saw and went and got the on duty paed). He was very unhappy with the treatment we've had from the NHS so far. 2.5 months from contacting the GP and still no appointment is terrible. Anyway, he was brilliant with dd. He examined her and then sent her out to play with the nurses and decorate the Chirstmas tree and had a long and frank conversation with me. She's clearly got something going on, her growth is mental and the hair as well isn't good either obviously sad. He has ordered a load of tests and scans etc and is contacting the childrens hospital to get an urgent appointment there. So she's had a bone age x-ray today and we're back at the hospital tomorrow for bloods and hopefully a scan. He said that given her symptoms there is definatly something wrong. He's scared me a bit tbh because he talked about tumours being a possibility sad. I'm now actually hoping she's 'just' got unexplained precocious puberty. He did say her growth is so abnormal they're going to be monitoring her until adulthood now as they are likely to have to halt things and there is a risk that she's going to not grow any more and need growth hormones later on which is mad because she's sooo tall for her age at the moment. So at last progress, I'm scared but also relieved that someone at last is looking at my dd.

SElady Wed 05-Dec-12 23:57:51

Sorry, I haven't been here for a while, came to report back to you about our hosp appt yesterday and then I saw AMum's message...
I'm sooo glad someoe is finally taking your DD seriously - it must be a massive relief!!! Also keeping my fingers crossed that it is just something benign like premature adrenarche/pubarche! I still think that because of her age the diagnosis is highly likely to be turning out "normal". It has to be and it will be!!

Hello MammyKaz, hope you're being seen as we speak and will soon be getting some answers and particularly hope that you won't have to go down the monthly injection route! I'd hate to make that decision myself, especially that we were advised against it by my DH's uncle (who is a surgeon, so not strictly his field of expertise, but still a medical person) when we first started our investigations.

Aji, I'm terribly sorry if I come across as a “little miss know-it-all" and I really have no intention to worry you either, but I can't ignore what you said about your paediatrician being surprised and telling you that a bone x-ray wasn't commonly done. My personal experience and searches show exactly the opposite. A bone x-ray is one of the first things that they usually do even without knowing the results of the blood and any other tests. Sorry again for sounding too neurotic about it!

We had our summative consultation brought forward from January to yesterday as they did a reshuffle of the paediatric department at our local hospital. We also got assigned to a different consultant. He was very good, summarised all their findings so far, all negative/normal and after a short debate we mutually agreed to go for the MRI scan in order to complete the circle and rule out absolutely everything. He was very understanding and sympathetic towards our feelings. Also gave us his direct email and tel number should we want to discuss anything further. So hopefully, within 4 or so weeks we'll have done the scan...
If that comes back normal, his recommendation will be to do another bone x-ray in a year’s time to track her development.

My 6yo DD is currently under investigation for this...

She has quite a Bit of pubic hair and gets spots and blackheads. She has started to get little boobs too...she is very tall for he age too and seems to put weight on very easily too.

She has epilepsy which started recently too, around the same time she started developing the hair etc. we have to go back to see the paed next week to get the ball rolling with scans etc as he wanted to start by monitoring the condition...

twilight81 Thu 06-Dec-12 09:40:03

Just came across this thread while looking for some info...
My dd is 9 years old, since she was around 5 she has had BO which I did think was strange but just made sure she washed well and wore deodorant. I didn't release it could indicate a problem... Fast forward to now she has some hairs growing down below. From what I have now read this seems to be acceptable at 9.. She still seems so young for this though? She looks young and only weighs 4.5 stone so not big for her age at all. She has no breast growth.. Yet. With the fact that she had the BO so young should I have got her checked?

alwaysworriedtoo Fri 07-Dec-12 21:29:42

HoHoHo, hope your scans go well next week. Your poor bairn. Having epilepsy too must be awful. ((Big Hugs.))

twilight, I never worried about the b.o until she pointed out her 'hair' and then I started to put two and two together.(though she was young still when this happened) It might be worth mentioning the b.o/hair, but still being small for her age to your doctor or practice nurse and maybe just tell your dd that it is routine for coming up to puberty if you don't want to worry her unduly? they might run a few tests to make sure everything is progressing as it should. Hope all is well.

MammyKaz Sat 08-Dec-12 15:44:15

Hi all, sorry i havent been online we've had family to stay & its been a bit manic. I'm really glad progress is being made.
AMum I'm soooo glad you're finally getting things moving, that's really positive. The talk of tumours is very scary but try to wait until you've got all the info together. It's so hard not to worry yourself sick about DD I know.
SELady must be a relief to have at least those test results come back normal. Keeping my fingers firmly crossed for MRI.
HoHo good luck with scans next week, hope you start getting some answers.
twilight if its on your mind & you've been searching then definitely mention it to GP, otherwise it'll just go round & round.....

Our private consultant actually got us onto NHS list to see paediatric endocrinologist instead of him on the same date. She's basically ruled out precocious puberty as there are no breast buds (they normally come first). She thinks its an issue with the adrenal glands producing too many androgens. Likely causes: a blockage somewhere, a "spot" on the gland!! She knows I'm already freaked so didn't use any scary T words. First step urine tests (not so easy from a 2yr old wink) & ultrasound. An urgent apt requested but its not till 17th so am trying to get it pushed. Following that horrible bloods - possibly every 30mins over several hours shock to monitor hormones. Am definitely not looking forward to that, am stockpiling treats in addition to Christmas pressies. Our follow up isnt until 9Jan, long wait, but she'll be in touch with initial results.

Paed was really patient & answered all my (repeated) questions but said she wasnt going to reassure us that its all ok as its obviously not right. Feeling a bit overwhelmed with worry right now. Just want some answers & quickly.

(((Hugs to all)))

alwaysworriedtoo Sun 09-Dec-12 14:43:20

Sending hopeful vibes Mammykaz... Hope it is just a glitch and easily sorted.

Aji Mon 10-Dec-12 23:05:40

Hi all,

Mammykaz, hope that the ultrasound goes well. Dd is going for hers on Wednesday and is freaked out after the last appointment. I've told her it will be fine, just a bit tickly and they'll put cold jelly on her tummy and use a camera to look inside. I have to give her a drink beforehand to make sure her bladder is full... I foresee disaster - will pack a spare pair of pants and tights just in case wink.

SELady I know what you mean about the paediatrician's complacency re. bone scan. I think I might ask the question again - dd goes back to the hospital in January after the results of her bloods and urine come back.

Hi HoHo and Twilight, glad you found this thread smile. I find it comforting to know that dd is not alone with this, and hope good results for all of us.

Aji Mon 10-Dec-12 23:07:06

AMum, how did the rest of the appointments go?

MammyKaz Tue 11-Dec-12 14:57:27

Hi Aji
Will be thinking of you & DD tomorrow, hope she's ok with ultrasound & isnt upset by any of it. It's tough going on ones so young.
We can't get any of our appointments brought forward [Sad] which means we'll have no update this side of Christmas. I'm not a particularly patient person at the best of times....

AMum - how did DD deal with all her tests? Hope you got the children's hospital appointment through.

Stay warm everyone, time for tea I think

AMumGoingMad Wed 12-Dec-12 19:42:50

MammyKaz Thanks for asking about DD. She coped really well considering. We're still waiting for the scan but she's had the bone age x-ray and loads of blood taken now (which was the worst of it all but once the needle was in she was really calm and chatted all the time).

MammyKaz Fri 14-Dec-12 13:36:59

Aji how did the ultrasound go? NHS tried to change ours to 31st angry luckily I was able to speak with a human being & we're still on for Monday.
<tries to display calm & control>

AMum really glad DD was so brave about it all. I'm a total wimp & hate blood tests.

AMumGoingMad Sun 16-Dec-12 21:10:07

We got a phone call from the childrens hospital up the road on Friday to tell us that they've made dd an appointment on Thursday this week with endocrinology. I'm so glad she's going to be seen by a specialist now. Just got to get the results of the tests done by the local hospital (which is actually further away than the childrens hospital!) so I can take those with us so things aren't repeated.

SElady Sun 16-Dec-12 23:45:42

Hello All - worrying times for so many of us, but such brilliant news too that finally everyone seems to be on the right track! Hope it all goes well - I too keep my fingers very firmly crossed for all our DC! Hope to hear from all of you very soon!

HoHoHo, your darling DD - must be so difficult for her (and you) to deal with epilepsy on top of everything else, hope it turns out to be benign and she will grow out of it!

twilight81, if my DD had BO at such a young age I probably would have had her checked out, but then again I'm way OTT when it comes to worrying about my DC's wellbeing, so I realise I'm not the best person to give advice. I think it's tricky to see things like BO, oily hair, blackheads/spots or even mood swings as real symptoms for a more serious health condition. The fact that your DD's symptoms hadn't evolved much during the last 4 yrs or so is very very encouraging.

Our MRI is scheduled for right after Christmas. Our consultant requested a head and pituitary scan which I queried as soon as I saw the appt letter... I thought they were also going to scan the adrenal glands...

MammyKaz Mon 17-Dec-12 14:32:37

Good luck Thursday AMum, will be thinking of you.

SELady hmmm would definitely push on that point. Better to have it all covered off at once than risk having to put her through it again at some point. It'll be scary enough for her.

We had our ultrasound this morning. DD was a total star & was very patient & stayed nice & still throughout - helped trying to spot the Cheerios she'd had for brekkie grin. But my sonograoher body language/comment interpretation is going into meltdown hheeellppp!

He didn't say anything of great importance just - that's fine, the report will go back pretty quickly, before end of the week. You do have a follow-up appointment don't you?

See, Nothing?!? But I'd been told it can take 2 weeks to return the report, that & fact he'd checked we were having a follow up .........aarghhh. Tell me I'm over worrying please! At least we will have some news before Christmas.

Hope we all enjoy our Christmases & park the worry for a couple of days at least

MammyKaz Tue 18-Dec-12 13:54:16

Yes I was overreacting, just heard ultrasound clear <phew>

SElady Tue 18-Dec-12 22:44:21

Phew, MammyKaz, what a relief!! You almost had me going there for a moment, too... Well done to your DD, what a clever and brave little girl!! Hope the rest of your investigations will go just as smoothly as this one!

I have a very good tactic for uninformative medical professionals by simply being bold (very bold). I always do a lot of research upfront and ask lots of questions, then rephrase them and ask again. I never leave the hospital after a test without asking the consultant what their initial assessment is. At follow up appointments I always ask for a detailed step-by-step interpretation of test results (in layman's terms) and even take hard copies of the results. My surgery charges £1 per page.

You see, I wasn't brought up in the UK and I'm used to being given diagnoses in written form and copies of test results without making a request.

With regard to our MRI, I spoke to the MRI department + our consultant through his secretary the day before he went on holiday and they explained that DD's initial test results (blood, urine and ultrasound) didn't warrant an MRI scan of the adrenal glands... I thought I'd leave it for now, especially as it takes half an hour to scan just one part of the body. What do you think, should I still push for it? Bearing in mind they won't be able to give us two consecutive appointments now...

Aji Tue 18-Dec-12 23:36:52

Phew MammyKaz!

We had good feedback from our ultrasound too - no evidence of any abnormality on the kidneys/adrenal glands and ovaries showed no sign of pre-pubescence either. I am starting to relax a bit, although we still have to get the results of dd's bloods and urine in January.

I asked again about the radial bone scan, and the sonographer indicated they would look into it if necessary, but that depended on the results of the blood and urine tests.

Sorry I've been quiet - too busy in real life!

AMumGoingMad Wed 19-Dec-12 11:15:50

Mammykaz That is a relief. I hate the no information after scans and whatnot. They must know when they scan so why not just tell you. You must be pleased that nothing is coming up menstration wise, thats such a worry.

Aji Again, good news for you as well with the scan. I can't remember, has your dd had a big growth spurt? If so I would push for the bone age x-ray but otherwise given her ultrasound and bloods were fine maybe it isn't needed? It was the 1st thing done for my dd but she's had a massive growth spurt (described by the consultant as abnormal).

We're of to the childrens hospital tomorrow. I have the results of the bone age x-ray and blood tests in my possession but not been talked through with a consultant, the local hospital has said the endocrine consultant will do it with us. There are some bloods that are outside normal range. No idea what they mean though and I'm not going anywhere near Dr Google because Dr Google makes everyone die! Her bone age is 2yrs and 3months older than her chronological age. Seems a big difference to me but we'll see what they say tomorrow I guess. I'm very worried about the outcome of it all, now the dr has mentioned tumours I'm scared about it being a possibility. I just need answers now. I'm guessing she's going to need more blood tests and she hasn't had an ultrasound scan yet which I'm guessing she's going to need as well. Don't know how much can be done tomorrow and how much we'll be waiting again for another appointment.

MammyKaz Wed 19-Dec-12 15:32:37

I know I do panic when it comes to DD, I can't don't want to help it!

SELady I do try to be firm but I think I get a bit overwhelmed sometimes. Im going armed with a list of questions to our follow up. Good for you though! I wondered whether the consultant had said they would scan adrenals & if that was before the test results. If adrenals aren't showing any abnormal activity then I guess there's no need.....? One to keep in the bag for later?

Aji that is great news for you, it is a weight off to start getting information. Hope next lot of results are equally positive.

AMum you're right to give Dr Google a wide berth. He's a right scare mongerer (sp?!) So glad you'll have more answers tomorrow. I'm one to talk but do try not to worry too much, i know the mention of tumours is terrifying. You could try pushing tomorrow for an ultrasound same day (if you've a morning apt), that should show any growths. My consultant did say if she was extremely concerned (!!) she could call through & send us right down. But you will start getting some answers now. Will be thinking of you x

AMumGoingMad Thu 20-Dec-12 20:53:01

We saw an endocrine consultant today. She was lovely and explained everything to us. After examining dd and looking at the results of the tests done at the local hospital she felt that dd is going through true puberty but that she needs to do more tests to confirm it and give us a diagnosis. She is doing an ultrasound scan and a mri scan to rule out anything scary plus to help diagnose. She's doing more blood tests which require dd to be in the hospital for half a day for bloods to be taken at intervals. She also wants a 24hour urine sample. She said that once she's got all the results back she'll call us and talk it all through. She also discussed treatment options with us if the tests confirm precocious puberty which seems to be hormone injections until dd is 11. She is concerned that we need to preserve dd's height which apparently is at risk. She also felt that given dd's behaviour even in the appointment (very teenager withdrawn type behaviour, grunting and huffing and puffing at questions / requests, reading her book and not interacting) that dd needs treatment to get her emotions back in check. I would support that! So no real answers yet but in the pipeline for all the final diagnostic tests which I'm happy with for now.

MammyKaz Thu 20-Dec-12 21:35:59

AMum it's great that you're getting closer to your answers but I really feel for you & your DD. Hopefully you can start to properly deal with things & get any more support that you need. The next tests sound like they'll be tough on DD sad.
I'm sure you don't need to hear it but well done for all your persistence, you're doing right by your DD. I'm sure with all the love & support you're giving her she'll deal with it all.
Dont forget to take care of yourself too x

AMumGoingMad Fri 11-Jan-13 15:04:36

Bumping up for NoMoreMarbles.

How is everyone? We're still dealing with the major attitude which is doing my head in. I tell you I'm not cut out for this parenting a mini-teenager lark, the attitude stinks and my fuse is being burned shorter and shorter each day.

My dd had her ultrasound scan today. She totally freaked out at the beginning, I have no idea why. We had to get her to calm down and stop crying before the lady could do the scan. Anyway the lady didn't give any ideas at all on what she could see. She spent ages on the left adrenal gland, I actually wondered if she couldn't find it but hey, I'm surprised they have any idea of what they're looking at on those scans LOL! More specialist bloods in 10 days and a MRI scan at the end of the month and then all results back mid Feb.

MammyKaz Fri 11-Jan-13 17:05:18

Hi AMum & everyone
AMum - I bet the moods are tough going. Poor thing is probably totally confused too. I've no suggestions to cope I'm afraid, lots of breathing!?! Apparently the adrenals are quite hard to identify due to size & location so that could explain the extra time on the left. Hope she copes with the rest of the tests, I guess the MRI will be a bit scary for her. Luckily DD loves playing doctor so it's a bit of a game for her ........for now....

We've had another consultant apt. So ultrasound & urine are completely normal, endo is presuming premature pubarche at this point but we're having the hormone stimulation test next week. Feeling hugely relieved (damn you Dr Google for inducing panic!) but still not happy that she's having these symptoms sad.

SELady have you progressed any? Was just wondering (if its not prying too much) why/how your consultant agreed to MRI?

MammyKaz Fri 11-Jan-13 17:12:14

Meant to add that endo indicated if it is premature pubarche DD is susceptible to develop PCOS later. I'm borderline PCOS & because I'm not overweight have stayed on the right side, but I was always a chubby child. DD isn't really chubby now, in proportion but solid, but she was a very chubby baby.

mooliebear Wed 16-Jan-13 22:27:44

Hi everyone,
I fell a bit cheeky coming back on after not posting for nearly 2 months blush
We saw the paediatrician last week,during the examination she said that she did not think there was significant breast development but has concerns as she has definite pubic hair and inflammation of the vulva. Combined with body odour, aching bones, growth spurt and emotional, she is sending her for some tests, she had a bone age xray today and next week, she is having an LHRH test and baseline bloods, then an ultrasound of her kidneys and pelvis.
Her height and weight are in the 91st centile, which to honest, I don't really get.
She discussed it could be Adrenarche or Precocious puberty but will wait to discuss it any further, until all the results come back, so about a 6 week wait now. She did say that as she is only six and if it was true precocious puberty, intervention to prevent progression would be immediate.
DD has been a nightmare the last few weeks, so so emotional, crying one minute, screaming the next, its a nightmare as she is the eldest, I have nothing to compare it with.

AMumGoingMad Sun 20-Jan-13 18:43:58

mooliebear Glad that you are getting somewhere now as well. The emotional side is what we're stuggling with most as well. My dd is my eldest as well so like you I have nothing to compare to other than her twin brother who has emotional delay so at 6 currently going through terrible 2's! Its a barrel of laughs in this house sometimes lol!
This weekend we recieved the letter from the endocrine consultant outlining the clinic appointment we had just before Christmas. She says that on examination dd appears to be going through puberty and has breast development at Tanner stage 2 and hair development at tanner stage 3. She says in the letter that assuming the ultrasound confirms uterus and ovary development then she would recommend immediate intervention with some hormone (name I can't remember) because dd is only 6. She also says that biochemically she may not see puberty occuring but that it is not uncommon to get a false negative for the blood tests. I don't fully understand that tbh but I trust this consultant with what she is doing and I'll get her to explain to me if need be in Feb when we next see her. DD has all her blood tests tomorrow and needs to be in for half a day. I hope that she's ok with them, she freaked out with the ones done at the local hospital.

Aji Sun 20-Jan-13 22:50:06

Oh AMum and mooliebear, big hug for you and your dds.

Good news so far Mammykaz - hope that the rest of the tests come back as normal. I know what you mean though, it's hard not to worry even when the results are good.

Dd had her consultant appointment last week, and the blood and urine tests have come back as normal. He thinks it's increased sensitivity to the hormones, but not true precocious puberty (yay!). He says he'll see her in 4 months' time, then maybe twice a year until she's 8. After that, any signs of puberty would be classed on the young end of the normal spectrum.

It's a big relief, although I'm still inclined to worry. Dd has been a star throughout the process. I hope she doesn't get picked on for her body odour (only noticeable in summer), the consultant recommended just using a normal deodorant if it becomes obvious.

Harumff Fri 01-Feb-13 09:29:58

Hi all, sorry if this has already been mentioned as I haven't read every post but have any of your DC been sent for a MRI of their brain?
My neice who just turned 8, went to see a consultant last week as she has definite breasts and some pubic hair. She also has some behavioural issues which is potentially ASD though people seem to keep changing their mind about that.
Anyway, she had an X-ray of her hand last week and the consultant has called today to say he's sending an apt for an MRI to rule out a pituitary tumour - is this normal procedure? Really pleased they're taking it seriously and know that tumours are rare so hoping they're just being on the safe side...

AMumGoingMad Fri 01-Feb-13 15:43:17

Harumff Yes, my dd went for an MRI scan on Wednesday. The consultant said it was protocol for that hospital for all girls under 8 with suspected precocious puberty. She also said she has rarely seen a pituitary tumour but because its a possibility the MRI scan must be done to rule it out.

Harumff Fri 01-Feb-13 15:51:01

That's reassuring to hear, thank you.

MammyKaz Thu 07-Feb-13 14:09:04

aMum that's sad news but at least they can now start to deal with things & hopefully your DD will respond quickly to treatment. Worrying nonetheless sad. But a scientist friend was very reassuring about the effectiveness of the treatment, not her area of expertise but she knows a couple of women that have had early puberty treatment & another growth hormone treatment.

Aji that's great news. We've just had the same news from our consultant: premature Adrenarche. As DD is so young they'll monitor every 2-3 months for now, there's still the concern it can develop into early puberty. I don't feel any real relief at the news but thankful theres not something very scary going on.

AMumGoingMad Mon 18-Feb-13 20:55:46

We got the official diagnosis today, central precocious puberty. I knew it was coming but feeling a little weepy tonight. Due to her age, height and emotional well being the consultant recommended she start on hormone therapy asap. We have decided to go with her recommendation. So until dd is 12 she will have slow release implants under local anesthetic every 10 weeks and 3 monthly monitoring of symptoms, height and weight. I've worked it out and with her other issues she's going to average 1 hospital appointment every 3 weeks although the consultant thinks some of her other problems will self correct with the hormone treatment which would be brilliant.
I'm feeling very sad for ds over all this tonight. She's been very withdrawn this afternoon over it. Hopefully time will help her.

tangledupinpoo Mon 18-Feb-13 23:36:30

Amum hope you are ok tonight after your news today. I can imagine you must feel very shocked and the 'official' news will take a while to get used to. Thinking of you.

I hope you don't mind me chipping in to your thread. I clicked on the title because precocious puberty is a condition associated with one of my children's syndrome, but it turned out it wasn't to do with his condition.

But, my DS1 has a growth syndrome and I've had lots of help and support over the years from the Child Growth Foundation. They include Precocious Puberty along with a condition called Premature Sexual Maturation (PSM) as one of the ones they help with.

The URL is www.childgrowthfoundation.org (hope I've done that link right!). On their home page is a 'contact us' button with the helpline number. I'm sure they would be able to help with things like best practice for treatment etc.

Their message boards used to be really busy (and honestly, a lifesaver. My son's condition is quite rare and just to get a few parents together, the experienced ones with the newbies, on the same page and helping each other was amazing.) I think they now have support groups on Facebook as well and I'm not on that, but I think they are quite busy.

Anyway, will stop butting in now but I hope maybe the CGF might be able to help you, if you feel you need it!

alwaysworriedtoo Tue 19-Feb-13 20:17:46

Amumgoingmad. Big hugs. At least now you know that something can be done to help and you have done the right thing by following everything up. I hope that everything goes ok with the hormone therapy.

Aji Fri 20-Jun-14 10:00:46

It's been over a year since I posted on this thread - I wonder how the other mums who reposnded are getting on?

DD is 7 now, and started to get underarm hair. Yesterday she asked me how come she had underarm hair and I didn't, and I mentioned it was because I shaved it. She asked me if she could shave hers too, and I am a little torn. On one hand I think she should, as children will begin to comment and make fun of her if she doesn't. On the other hand, once you start, it's difficult to stop. FWIW it's the only part of my body where I do hair removal (apart from plucking my eyebrows about once a year).

She is also self-conscious when showering after swimming now, and has asked me if she can get rid of the hairs on her bottom. We'll manage it by having her shower in her swimsuit in the public baths, then wash her properly at home. I'm less keen on hair removal in the pubic area, as it would generally be covered up, but I know that she will start swimming in school next year. I don't know whether to allow her to remove it until an age when it becomes "normal". Will see her paedatrician again next month, and have made an appointment with GP to discuss.

Any thoughts or experiences?

MammyKaz Wed 09-Jul-14 14:56:10

Hi Aji
I've just seen your update. It's a difficult issue to negotiate, as you rightly say once you start you can't go back. As horrible as it might sound do you think you might consider waxing under arms? Only reason I suggest this is that I presume the hair isn't coarse as it hasn't been shaved yet. Plus it should grow back slower than shaving so possibly still be less noticeable when it starts to return. A big treat for a brave girl??? Hate to suggest it as even I'm too wimpy to have it done but am bearing in mind for DD should we need to shock

For pubic hair I'd be very reluctant to do anything. I wouldn't be keen to use any hair removal creams & shaving could cause an irritating regrowth. Sorry, I'm not much use for you on this one! Your solution for keeping swimsuit on in showers sounds good.

Thankfully there have been no changes in the last year for DD & we're on 6 monthly checks now. She starts school in September & I do need to get her to start using deodorant. I want something as non-chemical as possible, anyone have any recommendations?

Also, did you discuss with your DD's school? I'm quite sensitive about who knows & am wondering if I've got to mention something as I'd hate her to be picked on if she gets a bit of BO with PE or whatever.

Aji Sun 20-Jul-14 22:08:43

Hi MammyKaz,
Sorry, I missed your post completely!

We ended up using Nair Sensitive on DD's underarms, she got quite itchy after 5 minutes so we rinsed it off, but she was really happy that the hair was gone. We've had some slight regrowth after 2-3 weeks, so I think we'll probably do it again this week. Paediatrician said it was fine to do this. In the meantime we'll just carry on with the showering in her swimsuit.

She starts a new school next term, and will also be swimming in school. I don't know whether to approach it with her form teacher - I haven't done this in the past, and rightly or wrongly, I'm a bit reluctant to discuss it this year as she has a male form teacher for the first time. There is a school nurse, whom I might mention it to.

I use the Dr Organic roll-ons for her - I've currently got the honey one which is a bit overpowering, might go for something a bit less sickly next time!

Dr Organic Deodorants

You can get them from Holland and Barrett.

I've been quite conscious of her body odour, especially since it's been so hot. She hasn't mentioned that anyone has said anything to her, but I do encourage her to wash under her arms in the mornings, and also if it's noticeable after she's been playing. I feel bad about this, as I don't want her to be self-conscious, but she does have quite a strong smell when she's been sweating.

ahfuckit Fri 25-Jul-14 21:43:33

Hello all. I posted this in AIBU earlier and a kind poster referred me to your thread...
"More of a WWYD really... A few times recently in the hot weather I have noticed that my 5yo DD's armpits smell of BO. As a result we have upped the washing regime as she used to have a bath every other day. I have always been firmly in the 'kids just get grubby not smelly and don't need as much bathing until puberty camp', but this morning she had a shower and an hour later I bent to give her a cuddle and could smell her.
I am going to take her to the docs to make sure there is no underlying medical reason for the pong but I am really sad that this may be an issue for her from such a young age.
If you were in my shoes would you just stick to bathing or would you use a product so you could be sure she wouldn't get smelly? I am worried about kids at school noticing and being cruel. Has anyone else had to deal with this?"

Since reading this thread I have realised that DD has also complained recently of aching legs and has downy hair down below. I'm really worried now sad.

Rowgtfc72 Sat 26-Jul-14 07:44:58

Watching this thread with interest. Dd is seven and a half, stupidly tall, 136cm, has little boobs and long blond hairs down below. She doesn't smell but complains her legs hurt. Now, I hadn't read anything into this as I started my periods at nine nearly ten but hadn't realised it could affect growth. Would the doctor think I'm totally mad if i got her checked out or could it all just be the natural process?

Aji Sun 27-Jul-14 21:30:25

Hi ahfuckit and rowgtfc72,

It sounds very similar to what my dd had, beginning at age 5. I would encourage you to speak to the GPs as a first move. I remember I had just returned to work after a year on maternity leave, and being in a meeting in London, exhausted and worried, stepping out of the meeting when my GP returned the call (my customers weren't particularly happy about that) and the tears just coming, I was so stressed.

DD is 7 now, and starting to get a little self-conscious about her hair, so she showers in her swimsuit at the pool. The paediatrician has been great with her, she is checked every 6 months. Paediatrician is always very upbeat, reassuring her that she is just a little ahead of her friends, and they will catch up with her soon enough. Once she reaches "normal" age (I think around 9?), the checks will stop.

Rowgtfc72 Sun 27-Jul-14 21:55:00

Had a good sniff today, she certainly doesn't smell of anything. She pointed the hairs out to me. They're not overly noticeable and blond but different enough for dd to have seen them. Weve vaguely discussed growing up and she knows what periods are and she's excited that as soon as she has one she can have a baby! Will have to buy an age appropriate book ( any recommendations welcome) give it a couple of months and maybe check in at the docs.

MammyKaz Mon 11-Aug-14 17:34:36

Hi All
Aji thanks for the dr organics recommendation, DD loves smelling like a rose. Broke my heart she was so proud to be wearing deodorant but at least it's not a challenge to get her to put it on. It's been hardest getting her to keep pants/swimsuit on when we're at play dates with friends that decide to strip off in the heat. I'm doing the whole bottoms are private approach but she forgets when others are stripping off!

ahfuckit and rowgtfc72 I would second Aji's comments & suggest a discussion with your GP. They won't think you're over-reacting. I definitely over-reacted later on with the paediatrician & various test results but that was because they weren't being reassuring strongly enough! I didn't care one bit i just needed to be as certain as we could be.

Aji Sun 17-Aug-14 00:16:51

I got the Dr Organics honey roll-on for dd, and it's a bit sickly. Might try the rose one next time!

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