Possible asthma in 4 month old. I feel a bit down and some advice and a bit of tlc would be nice...

[PavlovtheCat]

I feel quite blue. I feel quite guilty. And rather tearful I feel so so sorry for my baby boy and I worry for him.

He has been unwell since he was about 2 weeks old. When I mean unwell, he had a cold and produced a lot of mucous, and over christmas he vomitted a lot of feeds due to excess mucous, and continued mucous since then, but well in himself, a happy and chilled out boy who is developing well.

Gp could not determine exact cause, suggested probably from his nose, swallowing it and vomittingit back up with his feeds. I went back several times, and got the 'its viral' 'its common for little babies to be ill in winter', snuffly baby, winter baby type stuff.

I saw a different gp two weeks ago as although he was/is no longer vomitting his feeds, he still has a lot of mucous and a hacking cough, and some wheezing, and have had some terrible nights with him not sleeping. She said it was absolutely my DHs smoking (smoked a few a day, outside) causing it. DH took this on board and has not smoked for 10 days, with patches, now a non-smoker. No improvement, in fact when DS is not coughing there is a very distinct wheezing, which the gp could not hear last time.

Today DS has his 4 month jabs. The nurse was not happy to do them without clearance from gp as DS has green snot and mucousy cough. the original GP came in and checked him over. He said that given the length of time, given that it has been continous since christmas and that it is worse at night etc it is likely that he has asthma, in as far as they can ever diagnose it at this age. He said for us to attend the already planned appt with him on friday and he would check him over again, and have a chat with us about trying an inhaler.

If he is not breathing so great, is it going to affect his development? His growth? (he is on 5oth centile, but the nurse said he was filling out not growing so now I am panicking that he is not growing enough!). If he has an inhaler, what are the side affects, what might he be given, I don't want him to be given medication this young if there is any other way. Are there any tests to determine if there is something else this could be? Could it be anything else?

My poor little boy. I feel like I have let him down. Like DH and I have not given him the best start. We took things for granted.

[alibobins]

Ds2 is 16 weeks and has had an inhalor for a few weeks now, it's called atrovent and he has 1 puff twice a day. We have seen a pead at hospital and go back in May.
Ds2 had broncholitis at 20 days and has 2 chest infections since.
Neither me or Dh smoke so don't blame yourself.

[PavlovtheCat]

Thank you both of you, i knew i could trust MN to give me some real answers, and things to be thinking about.

pixie, it was the gp who said it was DHs smoking. I went in, DS coughed and wheezed, she said it was the smoking, said DH had to give up and sent me on my way. Luckily I saw the different gp today, the first one (who still sent me away saying he did not know) who is at least considering it to be something that needs addressing.

I like the idea of a 'happy wheezer' and that it might pass. He has not had any chest infections so far, which it seems is a good sign. And I will be sure not to let the Dr diagnose him on friday. He did say to be that it was difficult to diagnose at this age, and that we should look at an inhaler to see if that would help. I am guessing he will go through options on friday, I will make a list of questions I want to ask i think.

I guess, i just feel sad that he is suffering. He seems fine with it, like he is used to it now. He coughs at night and after a few months of disturbed sleep, he seems to be able to settle himself back. The horrendous hacking he gets sometimes which used to have us panic we are now used to, even him, he laughs afterwards.

Is there anything we can do to ease it without medication/as well as? ioniser?

[PavlovtheCat]

ali how easy do you find it to administer the medication, does it make any difference?

[PavlovtheCat]

pixie - I will pop over to the support thread for some handholding and guidance through the processes that hopefully will start on friday. Thank you for the link.

[strawberrycornetto]

Hello. I have had similar experiences with my son. J can't post a long response tonight because I am away from home but I will tomorrow. For now, I just wanted to say don't blame yourself. DS has had lots and lots of chest problems and neither of us or any of our family smoke. He also was ill for a long time before we realised it was more than ongoing colds and viruses and he ended up in hospital. I feel guilty but I don't think we actually could have done anything different. I am sure it's the same with you, your DS is still so little too that you have obviously taken really good care if he is being treated and the issue has been picked up already. Lots and lots of children get asthma, don't blame yourself.

[angel1976]

Pavlov - You kinda described my 5-month-old DS2! My DS2 has pretty much a cold from birth. He is very snotty and I am forever wiping snot from his nose.

We initially thought it was reflux as he was vomiting up at least one big feed a day. And the vomit was very mucousy. We went skiing when he was 4 months old and he developed a really nasty cough that sounded like he was on 40-a-day habit (btw, neither DH and I smoked so don't blame yourself but there is no harm in your DH stopping!). He also had green/yellow snot. It was horrible. He would literally cough all night (the only way he would stop was to be held upright) and in the morning, his eyes would be crusty, his nose would be all crusted over. We actually rushed him to see French doctor on holiday as we were so worried and he prescribed 8 different medications (don't worry we didn't give them all to DS2!).

It seemed to stop and then came back again. And he always sounded very 'chesty', like there's something rattling about in his chest. My friend (who works in a hospital) actually spoke to a specialist about DS2's symptoms and he said it could be nothing but seeing as it's been going on from birth, he should be referred to a pediatric chest clinic.

But since 3 days ago, the cough and most of the wheezing suddenly stopped. His nose still runs for England and he still coughs occasionally but the vomiting seems to have stopped (fingers crossed!). I am keeping my fingers and toes crossed that he has finally grown out of it but it's been a very long 5 months... I really hope the same happens for you.

[angel1976]

P.S. I told myself that if DS2 has one more 'episode', I am going to get a referral to this specialist chest clinic that was recommended...

[PavlovtheCat]

angel yes, DS has had nights where he would only sleep in an upright position, or rather, on my chest. In fact he seriously disllikes sleeping in his moses basket at all, and prefers to sleep on his side or front (not that I let him, but if he could he would!) he has nights where he won't settle and coughs like he cannot breathe and on those nights he will only sleep on me, with me propped up against pillows. On those nights DH sleeps on the sofa so that I can lie/sit in the middle of the bed myself and doze a bit too without risking DS falling on the floor. He has been sleeping better for a few days now, but since the jabs I am not expecting it to last!

pixie, we have been holding in the shower yes, (not in the shower!), we have had to hold him, as it had been so cold, when we put him on the floor in his rocker, the steam would be thick in half the room, and the floor would still be cold and non-steamy! He is a crap rocking moses basket, and I have put makeshift 'blocks' under the head end of them to tilt it slightly. he does prefer that to it flat. He really does not like lying completely flat. Not even on me. I rub his back a lot, habit now, due to him coughing and hacking so badly and the almost permanent rumbling it has become sort of instinct when i hold him! I am glad those things do help. I will keep on with them.

strawberry thank you. DH said he needed the kick up the ass, and if there was even the slightest chance it was him causing it, he had to stop. I guess we became complacent (or, he did but I accepted it too) because DD does not have any chest problems whatsoever, but now there is a real issue, caused by it or not, its enough. And before DD understands what smoking is too (she is 3).

[PavlovtheCat]

angel meant to say, hope you get some results too.

Sorry you all have poorly children too. Its not nice at all is it?

[plantsitter]

DD's breathing is not great - we've been to A&E a couple of times with it and have been given an inhaler - I suspect it will be diagnosed as asthma later on (DP and I both had asthma as kids). Can't improve on the advice above, but getting a humidifier for her room seemed to help her a lot.

[angel1976]

pavlov - Honestly, your DS sounds exactly like my DS2. I completely understand the upright thing. Even today, he woke up after 1.5 hour nap in the afternoon, I held him upright, he was soothed back to sleep and I had a nap sitting upright propped up by pillows and he slept for another hour like that! The moment I try to lie down, he wakes up crying... I have to confess though that DS2 has slept on his front since 8 weeks old (before that, we swaddled him but he never slept soundly and was very noisy with his breathing) when we put him down on his front during his naps and realised he slept much better. I went through all sorts of scenarios in my mind when he was really poorly (like your DS, DS2 was born on 25% line but has dropped to 2% and now tracking that line... ) like whether he has CF etc but I really hope he is finally outgrowing whatever it is!

[angel1976]

Sorry, re-read your post and realised your DS is on 50% line, way better than mine!

[alibobins]

pavlov Ds hates us giving him the inhaler it comes with a spacer and mask attatched Its difficult to tell if it helps and the consultants at the hospital have mixed opinions as baby recepters in the lungs are so tiny they don't know how much of the medicine gets to te right place.

We were lucky in one respect that we got referred quickly as Ds1 who's 5 has quite brittle asthma.

Ds has been diagnosed with reflux and on Gaviscon, Domperidone and omeprazole and is also on nutremigen milk.

As others have said its not unusual for babies to be know as 'happy wheezers' as although tey sound awfull its not causing them distress.

Really hope your ds improves soon.

[PavlovtheCat]

thanks alibobins. He was up in the night with it. And this morning, he has been making the most horrendous screeching cough noise. He is trying to expell mucous I think.

I guess, i would rather him try something than nothing. I don't know how quickly it could go from being wheezing and mucous to a full on attack, if it ever does. I am hoping the Dr will listen to our request to refer onwards and upwards. He is known for doing things himself rather than referring but I am going to insist he refers as we need to know how to help ds.

[PavlovtheCat]

Sometimes Drs baffle me. The Gp asked me if anyone in DH or my family has asthma. I was dx with it as a young teenager, but outgrew it by late teens. Also, he asked about asthma, not other allergies, or excma. DH had excma as a child. I have re-occuring sinus infections, always have, and had rhinitis as a child (not seasonal, or, not just seaonal). Its funny as I forgot all about that until DS became unwell and I have looked things up. I still do have a runny nose a lot of the time, but after 32 years of not being addressed formally, i just got on with it and did not think of it as anything medical, just something that happens! And, I have noticed a patch of excma on DS' elbow. Nothing serious enough to need treatment or medical intervention, but it is there. But the Dr did not ask. I shall mention that now I have done some more research and seen all the links.

[angel1976]

Pavlov We had a really bad night last night. DS2 was coughing for two hours. I sat upright with him from 3-5am. It wasn't fun. Anyway, I have made an appointment with the GP on Tuesday. However, I have been speaking to a really good friend of mine who used to be a pediatric nurse and she is convinced DS2 has bronchiolitis. She said that no babies under the age of 12 months has asthma. Bronchiolitis has very similar symptoms to asthma except that it is caused by a virus.

The more I read about it, the more I think it is what my DS2 has and what your DS has. The good news is that most children don't need further treatment and will just recover once the winter months are over. The bad news is that we just have to ride it out. Even though there's nothing much you can do (except if it is serious and babies can be hospitalised to be treated), she said it's good to get it confirmed so you can rule out other scarier possibilities! If you go to the GP and get your DS referred to the local hospital, then they can get him tested (the test apparently involves getting the mucous from the back of their throat but needs to go to the lab fairly quick so GPs don't have the ability to do that usually...). Good luck! I am going to do just that for a peace of mind.

[strawberrycornetto]

I was going to tell you what had happened with my DS. He is our second child and DD has always been completely healthy.

DS was in special care when he was born because he had breathing difficulties. However DD had the same thing and because they were both 37 week c/s births we were not unduly worried.

We thought he had reflux as a baby but it didn't seem to bother him particularly and we stopped using gaviscon because it made him constipated which bothered him more. He was just "sicky" but other than constantly carrying lots of spare clothes we didn't really think too much of it.

When we started weaning, we discovered he was allergic to milk, and then to eggs and dairy. This was the start of his problems really. We decided to enroll him on the Leap Study and when we took him for the enrollment he had a terrible cold and conjunctivitis. I had just gone back to work and he was about 7 months old. For the next 5 or 6 weeks, he was constantly ill, rattly chest, breathing difficulties, cough, he just looked ill. We went lots of times to the doctors who were slow to do anything and eventually decided he had bronchiolitis. It didn't get better and he then completely lost his voice so he was given antibiotics. He still didn't get better and suddenly developed a high temperature. GP sent us to A&E and he was admitted with pneumonia.

One of my biggest regrets is that he was in for less than 24 hours. He had pulled out his own IV line and the busy consultant decided he looked ok so decided to send him home with oral antibiotics and an atrovent inhaler. I knew so little then about chest problems and asthma and didn't query it, was just glad he came home. But he wasn't better and we ended up with two more hospital trips in the next few weeks. I feel really guilty because I still wonder if being so ill then has caused permanent damage.

Since then, we have been seeing a specialist at Great Ormond Street. He has tried lots of things to get to the bottom of it, so singulair, ventolin (because atrovent didn't work) and then beclamestasone. He still kept getting infections, so he did lots of tests - for CF, PCD, reflux, swallowing problems and for bacterial infections. My poor little man has had a pH study which involved a tube down his nose for 24 hours, a CT scan and a bronchoscopy, both under GA.

We have got to the point where all the major conditions are negative thank God. He does have reflux still, and the doctor said aspiration could have caused the problems so he now takes meds for reflux as well as for asthma, although the reflux does not appear to be significant enough to have caused the problems. We don't have a clear diagnosis of asthma as he is still only just 2 and he doesn't often seem to particularly wheeze. He just had a further infection, which is the first since he started the reflux meds, which made us really as I had hoped we may have got to the bottom of it. In all, I think he's had 8 chest infections since October 2008, many of which have taken several doses of antibiotics to clear up.

Sorry, now I've written this, I am not sure why. I think I wanted to make the point that we all feel guilty, even though I don't think there is anything else we could have done. Also, there doesn't appear to be a real cause, so with your DS it could be one of those things too. I would also say that the vomiting of feeds with your DS sounds very similar to Joe when he was that age and I have been told by the leap study people that reflux, milk intolerance and asthma/chest problems tend to be related although the doctors are not sure how. Also, I really understand how horrible it is to have a little one who is ill so I am definitely sending you some tlc.

Anyway, I am on the asthma thread if you want to chat or want some support from someone else with a child with these problems who is young, as I know DS is older than your DS but they are both on the young side and younger than a lot of the other DCs whose parents are posting on the thread and I think it does give different challenges, as they cannot really tell us how they feel and it means we have to second guess much more on symptoms.

[beammeupscotty]

If this continues into the better weather I would get other tests done. cystic fibrosis involves the gut and the lungs with excessive mucous. Your GP should suggest same route as strawberry after such a long time. 4 months is too young to say asthma according to most of the books ive read.