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she kissed my willy...

(48 Posts)
strangething Mon 16-Sep-13 20:04:16

I know kids say strange things including making things up...
I have 2 DC, a baby and a nearly 3 toddler. Due back at work soon so have a temporary nanny who is known to DH through his work (office-based, and she has just left the office) until permanent one starts. Temp nanny has experience looking after nephew for a few years and babysitting.

The only time toddler and nanny have been alone together was once 2 weeks ago when she babysat in the evening, and today for 20 min or so in his room then at bathtime. She bathed him then got him dressed while I dealt with the baby. When I put him to bed I asked him if he wanted his bedtime kiss (nanny had left) and he said, 'no I want a kiss on my willy'. Obviously I poo poohed it, said yuck I don't want to kiss your willy, it'll have wee on it, who kisses willies, what a silly thing, to which he said 'X does', X being the nanny. I asked him how you kiss a willy anyway, do you kiss your hand then put it on his pyjama trousers, and he said no you have to properly do it ie with trousers and nappy off.

She does seem like a lovely genuine person, and I know my son talks rubbish, but should I be worried? I normally would do quite thorough checks on a person but DH knows her, she's temp and she's from his home country which is quite small. So I wasn't too worried. But now I'm wondering if I should be concerned. Has anyone else had this kind of thing before? My gut says it's just him being silly, but then I wonder if I should just assume the worst and ask her not to come back just for that tiny chance that it was something dodgy going on.

Sorry for length. I'm inexperienced at this particular kind of thing (kids telling you stuff that sounds a bit worrying) as DS is not 3 yet so probably not quite there.

I wouldn't be leaving her alone with him again if it was me. Ever.

noisytoys Mon 16-Sep-13 20:10:55

That doesn't sound good sad

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 16-Sep-13 20:11:16

I'd go with your gut tbh, it sounds like nothing.

What are the chances that this woman used the one time she was alone with your son to kiss his willy?!

Did he say why she kissed his willy? Had he hurt himself and she had to pretend to kiss it better? I've been asked to kiss a willy/bottom/tongue before now, usually go for an air kiss in the general direction...

Is willy obsessed generally? Is he at that stage where they think its the funniest thing in the world to talk about it?

OutragedFromLeeds Mon 16-Sep-13 20:14:12

If nannies/teachers etc. went with everything a toddler/young child said about their parents we'd never be off the phone to SS!

Welcome to Mumsnet!

How did you get the idea of using a woman who had just left your husbands work place as a nanny?

strangething Mon 16-Sep-13 20:16:57

No, I didn't want to dwell on it too much so just pooh poohed the whole thing and told him it was bedtime, so didn't ask why she kissed it. I didn't want him picking up too much on the thing that you don't generally kiss willies, otherwise he'd probably go on about it all the time.

He did fall down a few stairs this afternoon and she picked him up and kissed him better, and this morning she mentioned a friend of hers who got testicular torsion playing rugby, and I think that we explained it to him as he injured his willy playing rugby, so I guess he could have muddled things up in his head.

I don't know, I think it's nothing but then he's my child, I have to protect him

Cindy34 Mon 16-Sep-13 20:17:18

I would be very concerned, your son is describing things quite clearly, so probably not making it up.

strangething Mon 16-Sep-13 20:19:54

Thanks. I'm mainly a lurker but I name changed for this.
Just used her because she's young, energetic, cheerful, DH knows her, they're from the same fairly small country, she wanted something for a few weeks before leaving the country (oh I suppose that doesn't sound good). And she does have experience with nephew and general babysitting so thought for a week or 2 she'd be fine. And she is very good when we're out and about. I think he's probably talking rubbish; he does do that. Is that very usual with small children would others say?

Cindy34 Mon 16-Sep-13 20:20:35

You say nanny was not alone with him that much, so could you just avoid her ever being alone with him?

Coconutty Mon 16-Sep-13 20:21:17

I disagree with cindy, and think outrage is more likely to be right.

Coconutty Mon 16-Sep-13 20:22:12

Very usual.

headsspinningforachange Mon 16-Sep-13 20:24:24

Id certainly be questioning it .

Your Ds is not even 3 so it seems a little much for him to make something like that up

PrincessFlirtyPants Mon 16-Sep-13 20:24:26

sad Oh, strangething what an odd thing for your DS to say.

Does he normally have a very active imagination?

strangething Mon 16-Sep-13 20:26:35

Thanks all. Yes, I can avoid them being alone together, the idea was just really to get baby used to being with someone who's not me, before permanent nanny starts and I go back to work. I'll have a think and see what DH thinks.

Cindy34 Mon 16-Sep-13 20:30:16

He may have an active interest in willys at the moment, he may talk about them a lot - does he?
He may have things muddled from the earlier conversation.

But when he talked to you, did he give a lot of detail about what he meant by kissing a willy?

It may be nothing but do you want to take that risk? Can you take steps to minimise the risk, such as not have her do bathtime?

insideoutsider Mon 16-Sep-13 20:36:43

You know those stories we hear of in the news where a child had been abused for years and the parents 'had no clue'? This is how many of them begin.

strangething Mon 16-Sep-13 20:51:49

He does have an active imagination, he talks about going to see his grandfathers in France but both of his grandfathers died long before he was born! Nor did they live in France, but he is named after his grandfather and his grandfather's uncle, who is buried in France.
He doesn't talk about willies a great deal but we do mention cleaning his willy and bum in the bath, girls don't have willies etc, so willies aren't taboo to him.
No, he didn't really give detail about kissing willies, just that you have to do it properly ie on the skin I suppose.

minderjinx Mon 16-Sep-13 21:01:00

Is it possible he might have accidentally seen her getting "amorous" with someone else (for example entertaining when she was supposed to be babysitting)? When I read your first post I noticed that your DS said "X does" not X did this to me, and then you asked him how you would kiss a willy, not whether she had kissed his. Unless you have missed something out, I can't see that he has actually suggested that anyone has kissed his willy, only that he would like you to. So is it possible that he has witnessed something he shouldn't have seen and is not so much making up stories as drawing his own conclusions?

strangething Mon 16-Sep-13 21:07:33

As she's only been here 3 times and only one of them has been without me I doubt that's she's brought her boyf round and he's witnessed anything. But yes you're right, he did say X does, not she did to me, and I didn't actually ask him if she kissed his willy. Good point. He could have seen a photo on her phone I suppose. I should have asked him at the time, as although he does make things up a bit, he also can't lie if you ask him something directly. you live and learn with kids!

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 16-Sep-13 21:35:57

Obv you need to listen to children but also at 3 to take anything said with a pinch of salt

I blow raspberries on tummies esp after bath - tho I do make sure willys are covered with a towel don't want to be peed on

I have also as Leeds said kissed parts of bodies through clothes if they hurt their self

I think this is nothing tbh

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 16-Sep-13 21:59:56

I don't know - it does seem a weird thing to say but then at that age they are starting to get the idea that some things make adults uncomfortable and push it for this reason. I know DS has been obsessed with his willy in a very aware way since about 3 and at the moment is in the middle of a delightful phase where he will wait until I'm sitting out and then present it to me saying "Smell my willy mummy!" He has asked me to kiss it or tickle it in the past too, usually when we are playing a tickling game e.g. tickling his feet, tummy, neck, etc or just when he is being silly - to him it's just a hilarious body part like a bum. If he asked you to kiss his bum you probably wouldn't think anything of it (even if you did go on to explain that bums are private/have germs and not for kissing!)

I know DS has never been in a situation where any prospect of "kissing willies" would actually come up, so to me it seems like a naughty/funny thing for a little boy to come up with, it's just that as adults obviously we see another layer to it that they don't realise.

I would just tell him without giving too much of a reaction that willies are private body parts and that nobody is allowed to touch it except him. You'll probably see from what he says after that whether somebody else has indeed tried to touch it or whether he just thinks he is being the height of comedy by suggesting it.

YoniBottsBumgina Mon 16-Sep-13 22:01:04

Sitting down. He is nearly 5 BTW.

I once planted a kiss on the small of ds2s back. He was afterwards telling everybody that "mum kissed my bottom".

Callaird Mon 16-Sep-13 22:08:51

I've had charges tell their parents that I left them at home to go to the park all day! (If I was going to leave them, I wouldn't go to the park!)

That I threw them down the stairs.

That I pushed them over all the time.

That I cooked them in the oven while the cupcakes were cooking.

That I drowned them in the bath.

That we went to the pub and we all drank whiskey!

That I crashed the car into someone's house and we stayed for a cup of tea and piece of lemon cake.

That I had a pet giraffe in my shower.

That I only gave them scrambled eggs to eat all day.

That I was an alien from a planet where all nannies come from and when I went on holiday I really went to my planet to see my family!

Countless times told others that I had a baby in my tummy (I am overweight so can see where they are coming from!)

A million other things over 28 years.

We spend hours a day telling children stories and encouraging them to use imaginative play so it's unsurprising that they make up stories or to get things a little bit muddled.

However, I would probably not leave her alone with your children if at all possible!



I would just like to point out that I have never ever done any of these things to my charges!

MuggedByTheSleepThief Mon 16-Sep-13 22:23:44

Completely believe you have never mistreated your charges callaird but come on ....... The giraffe in the shower that must be true.

PowerPants Mon 16-Sep-13 22:31:20

I think she probably did a raspberry on the tummy as Blondes describes - that would fit with the nappy off etc. Straight after the bath. I wouldn't worry tbh.

NomDeClavier Tue 17-Sep-13 10:33:09

It's possibly nothing, possibly something. Could be a misinterpreted raspberry, could be abusive behaviour.

You could try the 'oh you'll never guess why DS said...' line and then just reinforce appropriate boundaries with her.

Also do impress on your DS the importance of telling you things like this and how no-one should ask him to keep secrets, as well as mentioning that his willy is private.

If she looks cagey or clams up when you tried to raise it then I'd be wary.

FWIW I would have still done checks on her but it's a bit late for that now. I'd just try to minimise contact which could possibly be intimate if you decide to continue with her.

Laquitar Tue 17-Sep-13 10:40:39

In some countries it is normal to kiss every inch of the bab ys body, well not excactly the willy but the tummy, legs etc. What does your dh think?
Btw my mil would think that you are odd for telling him that his wlly is yacky. I m not saying that you are, just how coulture changes everything.

If you are uncomfortable be honest with her and tell her.

Strix Tue 17-Sep-13 20:43:02

I too have a DS who is almost 3 (in December). He talks about his "lily" all the time. When I take hisnappy off he says "Yook! It's my lily!" Much as I try not to encourage this it does crack me up and my laugh is probably just encouraging him. Last week I slept late and au pair got him up. The changing table is inmy bedroom, and I hear the following conversation between DS and au pair.

DS: It's my lily.
AP: Oh that's nice. Where was that?
DS Right here (and points to it)
AP: Oh. I thought you had a new friend named Lily.
me: snicker snicker....

Now he's never said she kissed it. But it's not really that far off.

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 17-Sep-13 21:41:16

Strix dc3 is nearly 3 -omfg - I rem when you just had 2 and obv preg with no 3 - but wow he is almost 3

Blondes faints

Op - I'm sure it's nothing but understand your worries

When does perm nanny start?

DoubleLifeIsALifeHalved Tue 17-Sep-13 23:32:25

I am not sure whether you've got anything to be worried about but this is too important to take risks or hope for the best.

I would either

A. Make sure she was never alone with your children again, not even in another room and breathe sigh of relief when she goes (kind of rubbish as you don't get any help from her then)
Or
B. Ask her about it, and give her strict rules about private parts... But then I'd still feel uncomfortable with her doing nappies or bath times, or changing clothes if I wasn't in the same room

It's so difficult! But I think you have to think about preventing a worse case scenario.

Strix Fri 20-Sep-13 12:15:25

Hi Blondes. Yes, he's 3 in December and a bloody terror at the best of time. Do you think you could sort him out for me?

He attempted to post my laptop through the mail slot in our front door the other night. shock

Lucky for me the laptop ws too big to fit through the hole.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 20-Sep-13 13:15:50

course i can, and in less then 3 days grin

Strix Fri 20-Sep-13 14:49:19

Think that might be a tad ambitious.

TheFallenNinja Fri 20-Sep-13 14:54:05

I need to know more of this giraffe.

Callaird Fri 20-Sep-13 16:14:50

The giraffe - I think it was because the shower stall was boxed in on three sides by walls, had a pale blue opaque shower screen/door and a gap at the top - a la Dear Zoo!! You couldn't see in to the shower and she would sit on the loo and call "raf, raf, say lo to me!"

She told everyone we saw. I didn't encourage her at all, not at all!

Cathyrina Fri 20-Sep-13 21:27:52

Hmm, tricky one. I as a Nanny always like when a parent sits down with me to talk about things that go through their head so I know what's going on and if they are worried about something. Honesty is a very big part of this job and makes things sooo much easier as often it's just misunderstandings or little ones making things up. If you are worried too much, simply ask her about it and see how she reacts. I'd be careful though, better safe than sorry, if you feel uncomfortable then don't leave them alone again until this has been sorted.

sleepdodger Fri 20-Sep-13 21:39:35

Ok unless I know you, and I don't think I do, this also just happens to my friend who's son is nearly 2.5, at a CM
She didn't know what to do so called Ss for advice, they came and chatted to them and him and decided it wasn't sinister but woul keep it on file incase of any other reports
My ds is sim age and he has started showing more interest generally in bums willies poos etc so don't know if is a phase
What does dh say?
X

I would ask the nanny - not outright but would mention that ds had used the phrase and if she'd ever heard him use it and wonder where he got it from.

Ive done similar with my nanny about other things where I'm not sure what's happened and she's happily clarified.

Mandysname Sat 21-Sep-13 00:18:53

If my child told me that i would tell the nanny what has been said and explain thats why s/hes suspended. I would also get a social worker to assess to unpick it all to ascertain the truth (no secrets) The reason im writing this is because all children say silly things but your child has asked you to repeat something done to them...at the same time of day (bed time) then named the person... then demonstrated they know how to do it. That would be clear enough for me. You dont know the truth but you know your gut feeling...trust your mummy instincts x what a nightmare for you x hugs x

Mandysname Sat 21-Sep-13 08:12:40

Can I just add that while it may well be nothing... if it is something then its fantastic that you stopped it now by preventing childminder being alone with your children again. Also though please consider safeguarding other children too..and that can only be done by assessing it through the proper chanels. I know that sounds scarey but trust me a life of living with the experience of being abused is a lot more frightening for every child it happens to. And we all have a responsibility, if we suspect someone to be honest and really brave about exploring it. People who abuse kids count on the fact we hate challenging these things through fear of getting it wrong (because it would be devastating to have that accusation made on you if it wasnt true). Im sorry if mine sounds a bit serious and heavy reply. I just know what its like to have lived through it and I feel strongly that being honest helps to safeguard all kids. At the end of the day I would rather the childminder was assessed properly. You cant speculate as to whether they have done this or not...but there are people who can. And IF anything has happened, they can help you talk to your child, support him though questions he may have, and ways to teach him to safegaurd himself (which im sure you do already and is testament to the fact he told you in first place).
I hope you resolve this and admire your strength in coming on here and seeking advice from other parents x hoping everything works out your way. Your son is a lucky boy to have such a caring and concerned mum x

Laquitar Sun 22-Sep-13 14:19:30

Hmm where id OP? She started a thread as someone very concerned and then either a)she didnt read the replies or b) she read them and did not have the courtesy to say thank you? Am i the only one who finds this rude?

Op, you have started a thread with a strong title and as you see from the last post you have brought up some painful memories to some posters. And they have put time to write a very kind post. Dont you think you should at least aknoledge their post and thank them? (Hmm)

Blondeshavemorefun Sun 22-Sep-13 16:26:59

this is true, tho often op's dont update and it is annoying

Mandysname Sun 22-Sep-13 16:54:50

Thanks, just hoping OP is ok and all things are working themselves out for you. x

Laquitar Mon 23-Sep-13 10:18:39

You sound very kind person Mandys(flowers).

And Blondes too of course for agreeing with me lol.

Mandysname Wed 25-Sep-13 07:20:08

Likewise Laquitar hugs xx

ReetPetit Wed 25-Sep-13 14:32:27

as a childminder and a parent I would say this is not something you can ignore and hope for the best. it is irresponsible not to act - the 'not leaving her alone with him' line is ridiculous. if she is an abuser then you are leaving other children she may come into contact with in the future at risk and that is wrong.

Do you not remember the nursery nurse case? the woman filming herself abusing children. you have to think of all scenarios. It may be nothing but I would rather risk upsetting someone than risk my own and other people's children being abused or used for internet porn etc.

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