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Is this a reasonable ad/suggested pay?

(47 Posts)
Mamabols Tue 11-Jun-13 23:56:40

Hi, we are looking for a nanny (or a nanny housekeeper) and this is the ad we put on Gumtree and nannyjob. We've gotten some responses but not as many (quality ones) as hoped...the Gumtree ad doesn't mention any pay but on Nanny job we have said £250-£300 net a week, depending on if they are willing to take on some light housekeeping (mainly cleaning and laundry while the baby is at nursery - hoping to put him in 2 mornings a week). We have a cleaner currently so the housekeeping bit is not crucial - just thought it might be easier to have one person rather than two different people.

Your feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks

This is our job ad:
We are a professional Christian family, living in the IP1 area of Ipswich (East of England), looking for a full time LIVE-IN nanny or nanny housekeeper (up to 60hrs/week, mainly Monday to Friday) to help care for our two lovely, well-behaved boys, aged 1 and 5, from July, for 6 months in the first instance, with potential for longer contract if all goes well.

Qualities needed:
-Experience as a sole charge nanny of young children, 0-5
-Must enjoy spending time with young children
-Flexible as one parent works shifts in hospital and the other commutes.
-Reliable
-Must be able to use own initiative
-Able to organise and prioritise
-recent CRB check
-First aid training or willigness to undergo training
-Clean UK driving license, preferably with own car but we have one you can use
-Good level of English , spoken and written
-At least two RELEVANT references
-Non smoker preferable

Duties
For the children:
Term time: school run, after school activities, homework/piano practice, toddler group/nursery
Holidays: Activities/outings, holiday club run, outdoor activities
General? (the extent of this can be negotiated, depending on if applying for nanny housekeeper or nanny position)
laundry including ironing, cleaning, preparing/serving some meals
Two evenings of baby sitting a week

Hours will be mainly Monday to Friday but may require occasional weekend cover but by prior arrangement

Benefits
-Own furnished double bedroom, sharing bathroom with the children
-Generous salary, commensurate with experience; overtime for extra hours
-Compensation for mileage and petrol used, if using own car
-Most weekends off as standard

If you are interested, please get in touch, including your CV, your salary expectations and when you are able to start.

Karoleann Wed 12-Jun-13 10:18:00

Okay - you're not going to get the volume of responses that you would in london and the ads okay but can I suggest.
1. remove the reference to being Christians - unless you're holding church services in your house, its irrelevant. You can put any info in the job spec sheet (like no overnight male guests).
2. You need to put a salary range - there's lots of underpaid au pair type jobs on gumtree at the moment.
3. remove the 6 month contract length, good candidates aren't going to leave their current job for a temp job. You can get sack a nanny quite easily within the first year anyway, if she's not good.
4. Add all tax and NI paid so they know you're above board.
Otherwise I think its fine

Good luck

Blondeshavemorefun Wed 12-Jun-13 10:42:23

You mention generous salary - £250 for 60hrs is low

Also the weekend bit would put me off - do you want a mon to fri nanny or are you likely to need weekends due to hospital rota

You also say you are Christian - does this effect the job? I once went for an interview years ago with a Christian family and they made their disapproval clear that I 'lived in sin' needless to say it wasn't the job for me

You want live in - would the nanny be allowed to have her boyfriend stay or would that be against your beliefs ?

Tbh I wouldn't bother putting your 1yr in nursery at this moment - what's the point of paying their fees and a nannies salary?

nannynick Wed 12-Jun-13 10:45:21

I agree that removing the Christian reference may encourage more applicants. House rules can be specified if necessary.
Always include the salary detail. Show as Gross and typical Net (based on single person taxcode). That helps to show that you will be operating payroll, not just paying cash in hand. Add the wording Karoleann suggests as well, to help show it's a real job.
Remove the 6 month thing... why have that?
Specify holiday entitlement perhaps, especially if you will provide more than statutory minimum.

>Flexible as one parent works shifts in hospital and the other commutes.
That can put people off. Could you specify the working hours a bit better, 60 a week and then implying that weekend working may be needed could put people off. People may not want to commit to being available 24/7, which flexible working over 7 days may mean. Saying working 1 Saturday in 4 would be better, if Saturday working is needed. Be as clear as possible about when they would be working.

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 12-Jun-13 13:57:08

It doesn't sound a very good job tbh, I think that may be your problem.

- The wage offered is low. I know you're not in London, but as the job is live-in, any applicants could quite easily look for work in London instead. I'm not sure there are loads of people desperate to live in Ipswich.

- 'up to 60hrs/week, mainly Monday to Friday' you need to specify days/hours as best you can. Vague terms like this screams 'we will take the piss' to me.

- The 'benefits' are a joke, as they're not actually benefits at all!!

Own furnished double bedroom, sharing bathroom with the children - you mean they don't have to sleep in the shed?! Wow! Standard for a live-in nanny, not a benefit.

Generous salary, commensurate with experience; overtime for extra hours - it's not a generous salary nor is it a 'benefit' to be paid for overtime. Being paid for the hours you work is a right.

Compensation for mileage and petrol used, if using own car - the fact that you think this is a benefit makes you seem slightly mad tbh. Of course you will reimburse them! Why should they pay to cart your kids around? You will also need to pay for wear and tear of their car, any parking costs etc.

Most weekends off as standard - again wow!! I think you'll find weekends of as standard is something that all nannies will expect, unless being paid to work weekends.

Benefits are things like self-contained flat (for live in), gym membership, use of a car when not working, oyster card provided, mobile phone provided, use of holiday home etc.

Blondeshavemorefun Wed 12-Jun-13 14:15:35

You say it better then me Leeds [ grin]

But totally agree with all you said and if bubs hasn't of woken up I may have made my first reply along what you have written smile

ChippingInWiredOnCoffee Wed 12-Jun-13 14:21:05

leeds - well said and agree with Blondes & K too.

You need a major rethink/rewrite - then try childcare.co.uk as well.

Mamabols Thu 13-Jun-13 05:23:06

Thanks for your feedback. It is difficult to specify hours any more because of the potential variability of our jobs and I only get my rota a month in advance. That's why I've put "up to 60" implying that it would not be more than that and the job is Monday to Friday. The Saturdays would be really very occasional - only if i work a Friday night perhaps and my husband isn't home on Saturday for instance - maybe might be worth leaving off altogether?

I put 'Christian' more to imply that we would be honest and fair, than to imply strict house rules but I accept that this can be discussed at the interview. Certainly, no overnight male guests would be allowed anyway!

I did check the salary range against an agency website in our area and that is apparently typical.

The 1 yr old going to nursery was just to give the nanny a break especially on long days and also to give her time to do the laundry etc (my 1 yr old can be a bit demanding!)

As for "benefits", and contract length etc, points well noted. I'll change the wording accordingly.

Thanks again

Layl77 Thu 13-Jun-13 06:21:09

Sury you don't need to give a nanny a break?

Layl77 Thu 13-Jun-13 06:22:20

I'd leave Christian bit out too, doesn't unfortunately guarantee that you are "honest and fair"

nannynick Thu 13-Jun-13 06:28:59

How often does the Saturday work occur in reality? Could you get a local babysitter to do it perhaps, offer it to nanny first but have a backup.

You are getting applicants from the sound of it, so maybe it isn't an issue. However you say you are not getting quality applicants but in what way are the applicants unsuitable?

nannynick Thu 13-Jun-13 06:30:51

I would not send 1 year old to nursery and use the money to increase the salary, see if that gets better candidates.

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 13-Jun-13 12:23:33

A good nanny should be able to fit in
Nursery duties around their charges - so no need to send 1yr to nursery - assuming you don't want your nanny to then clean your home

If that is the salary agencies in your area mention then fine

Do you have to have live in? Or is it to make costs cheaper - yes a 60hrs week is long - if all hours are worked - but having a live out nanny will expand the amount of nannies that will apply

Many don't want to live in - plus if have a regular boyfriend then again not spending the weekend together may put people off - though you are quite within your rights to state no male guests

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 13-Jun-13 12:59:40

I would do as Nick says and knock the nursery idea on the head and increase the nanny's wage. If it is above what is standard for the area, then you can advertise a 'generous salary'.

Remove the Christian bit from your ad, for a lot of people Christian doesn't mean honest and fair so a bit pointless for that purpose. If you want, just say 'we are an honest and fair professional family'.

Remove the mention of weekend hours and the 'benefit' of free weekends etc. Just say 60hrs mon-fri. If you need a weekend at some point you can ask the nanny and offer overtime pay/time off in lieu at the time.

Don't mention the reimbursement for petrol costs in the ad, it's so obviously the right thing to do you don't need to mention it. Just like a nanny looking for work wouldn't advertise 'benefit; I won't beat your children'!

Mamabols Thu 13-Jun-13 19:50:56

Thanks again for your feedback. @Blondes, we intended to get a live out initially but decided to do live-in because of the cost. We would much prefer that tbh - saves having to "make room" in our spare room, currently half filled with the children's stuff - but even at minimum wage, it would get quite costly, especially for the 60hr weeks.

forevergreek Thu 13-Jun-13 20:09:36

I would scrap nursery and offer at £380 live in, or £480 live out.
Remember the extra costs of live in nanny of providing all their food, extra water and electricity etc

I also agree for live in in Ipswich you really need to make it worth it as otherwise candidates will just live in in London. Live out will appeal more as appeal to local candidates.

A nanny can easily do nursey duties with a child. But they only usually do child related things ie child's washing/ child's bed/ child's toys/ child's cooking

Mintyy Thu 13-Jun-13 20:15:09

Sorry, but I don't see how you can make working 60 hours per week seem an attractive proposition, ever.

Are your children really not in your care for 60 HOURS a week?

Are you sure that £250 per week plus accommodation for 60 hours is above minimum wage?

It is quite frankly insulting to those of other faiths and none to use "Christian" as short hand for "honest and fair".

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 13-Jun-13 20:31:21

Mintyy a lot of live-in nannies work a 60 hour week (and some live out nannies too).

breathe live-in employees are exempt from the minimum wage as they get accommodation, food etc. in place of higher wages.

I agree with your point about 'honest and fair' though. Beware the heathen employers who are dishonest and unfair!

Live-in employees are not exempt unless they live as part of the family. www.payefornannies.co.uk/parents/minimum_wage.htm

Mintyy Thu 13-Jun-13 20:37:56

I know, shocking isn't it?

Laska42 Thu 13-Jun-13 20:41:44

2 kids at £4 -5 an hour? no wonder you are not getting anyone!..

Laska42 Thu 13-Jun-13 20:43:02

btw mintyy .. over on the other thread.. do stick with us..

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 13-Jun-13 20:57:01

I think live-in nannies are considered 'part of the family' unless they have separate accommodation breathe?

Mintyy Not really shocking. Many parents who can afford a nanny work a 9/10 hour day, plus an hour or more commute = 12 hours of childcare needed. If you're working full-time that's a 60 hour week. Long hours is just part of the job.

IAgreeCompletely Thu 13-Jun-13 21:12:15

As already pointed out by other posters you would have to pay minimum pay unless she lives as part of your family ie all eat together. However, even if you get her to live as part of your family it doesn't seem right to me to expect someone to work for less than minimum wage (minus the max £33 for providing her with accomodation)
I there are lots of people who will work for less than minimum wage but it seems unfair to take advantage of them.

What about offering £310 for fifty hours work and pay as you go (minimum wage) for any hours over this. You can offer the option of live in if ou want.

It doesn't seem like it would be too onerous work, I would have thought you could find someone.

IAgreeCompletely Thu 13-Jun-13 21:14:02

Sorry I meant to say 'for example, all eat together etc'.

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 13-Jun-13 21:26:18

Mintyy - 60hrs a week are quite normal for a nanny if work 5 days - as Leeds said working day plus hour travel each way

If you can make to a 55hrs week job then maybe more will apply

You do shift work so if on a late can the nanny start later then 7am / no point you both being there

Live in will reduce the costs but as others have pointed out needs to be an attractive package or they would look for a London job

Karoleann Thu 13-Jun-13 21:32:09

The OP is offering a fair wage - it is a live-in post therefore accomadtion costs can be removed from the minimum wage.

Even if i wasn't a live in post, minimum wage is currently £6.31 per hour for a 60 hour week this is £378 - but this is GROSS, the OP is offering 250-300 NET. 378 net is 306 anyway and you have to take living costs off this.

OP you have, I really think you have will get a good candidate if you just put a few little changes in your ad.

Karoleann Thu 13-Jun-13 21:33:14

There is no requirement for a live in employee to eat with the family, that is an au pair.

IAgreeCompletely Thu 13-Jun-13 21:54:58

UK Gov info on Minimum Wages

This details which employees who are NOT entitled to minimum wage.
including:

non-family members living in the employer’s home who share in the work and leisure activities, are treated as one of the family and aren’t charged for meals or accommodation (eg au pairs)

So, if you charge for accomodation or if the 'worker' is not living as part of the family they ARE entitled to minimum wage.

Here are the UK Gov details on providing accommodation

Mintyy Thu 13-Jun-13 21:59:26

Yes but its just so dismal to ask anyone to look after two children for 12 hours a day five days in a row. Lord knows, most sahms can't bear it for those kind of hours and they are looking after their own children, who they actually love!

ReetPetit Thu 13-Jun-13 22:05:57

agree with Mintyys last post 100%, lol grin

ReetPetit Thu 13-Jun-13 22:06:32

and 'lord knows' how apt - lol again grin

forevergreek Thu 13-Jun-13 22:13:47

But minty- that's what a nanny does? Very few nannies work 30 hr weeks.
Most on 55 min ( 10 hr days and one eve)
Many on 12hrsx5, 24/5 or even 24/6-7

Most people work 50 hrs a week who need a nanny and need to add commute ontop

Laska42 Thu 13-Jun-13 22:14:24

and surely the point is if you want good childcare, you dont pay carp wages.. whatever the government guidelines say ..

Mintyy Thu 13-Jun-13 22:18:14

Yes, could never ever be a nanny! No matter how desperate. Its a good thing that some people are fond enough of children to want to do it.

Karoleann Thu 13-Jun-13 22:30:19

iagreecompletely you need to actually read the link you posted.
The bottom one states that you can deduct an amount for living expenses from the minimum wage. The OP is paying within minimum wage for over 21's and above it for under 21's.
No-one is forcing anyone to apply for the position and if you take the time to look at other jobs in the area, eg n nanny job, she isn't offering anything much different from other employers in the area.

At £250 net pay per week (£288 gross) plus £33.74 taken off for accommodation the gross pay is £322. This is £5.37 per hour for a 60 hour week. The minimum wage for over 21s is £6.19, rising to £6.31 in October. The bottom of the OP's range is well below the minimum wage. This doesn't seem generous to me. If you aren't going to pay the minimum wage, I don't think you should be looking to employ someone.

IAgreeCompletely Thu 13-Jun-13 23:18:25

Karoleann. I think we are talking at cross purposes but there is no need to be snarky. We are just trying to help the OP. I did read and understand the contents of my links.

If the OP wants to pay a live-in nanny a minimum wage then it would work out as
£6.19 x 60 hours minus £33.74 for accommodation= £337.66 gross. This would normally work out at about £280 'ish net.

The OP is suggesting paying between £250 net (which would work out as below minimum pay) and £300 net (which would work out as above minimum wage)

It is not clear if the two nights babysitting are included in the 60 hours or if the nanny is to be paid seperately for them. confused.

Mamabols Fri 14-Jun-13 00:36:26

Thank you all for your feedback. It has all been quite instructive. Made some changes to the ad - will see how it goes.

OutragedFromLeeds Fri 14-Jun-13 12:11:06

Mintyy she's recruiting a nanny, you know one of those people who has chosen a career looking after children?! A job looking after children will appeal to someone who wants a job looking after children!

It's like me going on to a job ad looking for a chiropodist and saying 'oh good luck finding someone who wants to touch other people's feet all day'. The most horrendous thing I can think of as a career choice, but obviously some people must like it! The job is aimed at them, not me.

Reet It's slightly concerning that you find looking after other people's children 'dismal'. Aren't you a childminder?!

ReetPetit Fri 14-Jun-13 13:40:53

i am currently OFL but i certainly wouldnt be looking after 2 for 60 hours a week for that kind of money!! that i would find dismal tbh...

Karoleann Fri 14-Jun-13 17:12:23

iagreecompletely I don't think we are at cross purposes, but this is a nanny/childminder/au pair section, so I don't understand why you are posting if you don't know anything about them, it's not helpful.

The job will be above min wage if the nanny is over 21 and if under, which is possible ver possible for a newly qualified nanny as they can start training at 16, even the lowest wage is over minimum.

There is no point posting

No, the lower wage, which now features in her gumtree ad, is below minimum wage for an over 21.

IAgreeCompletely Fri 14-Jun-13 23:42:49

Karolanne
Blimey you are like a dog with a bone..... So we agree if the OP pays closer to £250 it would be below minimum wage if the nanny, au pair (or whatever you wish to call her) _is above 21_
However it would be above minimum wage if the OP pays closer to £300 net as I have already posted

I haven't posted anything that is incorrect AND I haven't been crabby to anyone hmm

We still don't know if the OP has included the two evening babysitting in the 60 hour working week.

I can't be bothered addressing any more of your garbled posts.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 15-Jun-13 00:14:22

A nanny and an au pair are different IAgree they're not interchangeable terms. The OP is looking for a nanny.

IAgreeCompletely Sat 15-Jun-13 00:31:11

I know they are different I should have written nanny or nanny housekeeper.

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