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Baby injured at childminders - advice needed please

(213 Posts)
EmilyD2012 Thu 25-Apr-13 14:03:05

My DS (10mo) returned from the childminders on Tuesday evening suffering from sunburn. Overnight his face swelled up badly, by Wednesday morning his face was horrific - bright red and he couldn't open his left eye because it was so swollen. We took him to A&E and were told he was most likely suffering an allergic reaction to something or severe sunburn.

After giving him antihistemines and pain relief we were discharged and his face slowly started to deflate. Yesterday afternoon his skin started to blister and, by the evening, was weeping constantly. I took him to the doctors who said that he was suffering from serious sunburn to the face. I asked the childminder how long he had been out in the sun for and she said it had been 30 minutes at most. The doctor disputed this and said that it was very unlikely to have such a dramatic reaction to just 30 minutes in the sun. It is only April, after all.

The childminder is a friend of mine and has always been brilliant with my DS (she has a baby the same age). No part of me thinks that she would have deliberately let him come to any harm. That said, the last 48 hours have been horrendous. Every time I look at my baby my heart breaks. His face is a mass of blisters and open wounds. His left eye looks like it could bruise. I've been given hydrocortisone cream to treat the skin but every time I touch him he screams in pain. Last night I put him to bed and wept.

Today, the childminder came round and saw for herself what a terrible state he is in. I didn't want to make her feel worse than she no doubt already is, but equally felt it was important for her to see that I wasn't exaggerating when I contacted her from the doctors yesterday.

I just don't know what to do. Some of my friends say that such a careless act is unforgivable and I should never leave my DS with her again. Others are more forgiving and say that, after seeing him, she has surely learnt her lesson.

Any advice at all would be greatly appreciated. What would you do?

Thank you x

thebeastandbeauty Thu 25-Apr-13 14:07:00

You poor thing, that sounds awful.

I think I'd be terminating the contract sad I am by no means a cotton wool mother but I kept my DC in the shade when they were babies and would be living if my 10 month old ended up in that state.

Could your DS have a condition that makes him react very badly to the sun? Did the GP mention that? It's just I'm sure I read on here that someone had a child who reacted very, very badly to minimal sun.

FannyFifer Thu 25-Apr-13 14:07:37

Good god that's sounds awful.

Do not put hydrocortisone cream on open wounds, don't think that is recommended at all and may make things worse.

Go back to Dr, or maybe bring to A&E sounds like may need properly treated for burns and probably an antibiotic.

Your poor poor baby.

Saltire Thu 25-Apr-13 14:08:18

My granny used to react very badly (like you describe) in the sun. She had to cover up with long sleeves, long leg trousers or skirt, hat etc, even to put the washing out.

It is possible this ha shappened with your son

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 14:10:16

I would try and find out what else it could be. Get a second opinion. It doesn't sound like sunburn at all. If it is sunburn, maybe he has unusually sensitive skin? I can't see how he could possibly get that badly sunburnt by accident. Was the childminders child sunburnt? If she was out with both of them in the sun all day, wouldn't her child also be badly burnt? Is it only on his face? Something doesn't add up here imo.

CrowsLanding Thu 25-Apr-13 14:12:16

OutragedFromLeeds I completely agree. You must get a second opinion op. Hope your ds gets better soon thanks

Pootles2010 Thu 25-Apr-13 14:12:51

I agree with outraged, odd that a&e thought it an allergic reaction. Sounds not quite right about sunburn tbh, get a second opinion.

Thurlow Thu 25-Apr-13 14:13:23

That's terrible. Personally, I'd be tempted to talk to a doctor again and ask how long your son needed to be outside in direct sunlight to burn that badly, firstly because those does sound like a very extreme reaction to April sun, and secondly to give your CM the benefit if the doubt. Is she a registered CM? (I know some people do still just use friends for childcare). I'd be amazed if a registered, qualified CM looking after her friend's baby let them sit in direct sun for hours. Not that I'm saying it wouldn't ever happen, just that it's such a basic thing, keeping kids out of the sun, that it would seem such an unusual thing for a CM to do

Hope your DS gets better, that must be awful.

Saltire Thu 25-Apr-13 14:14:54

Is it possibly an insect sting? I know some people can react badly to bee/wasp stings

I agree with outraged, it does sound very severa to be sunburn - and only on his face. If it was that hot surely ohher parts would be burnt and also her own child or other mindees would be burnt too

I'd get a second opinion first. That's extreme sunburn even if they were out all day. It's warm but not that warm . Either it's a reaction like first dr said or your baby is very sensitive to sunlight. Did she put sun cream on his face could it be that?

EmilyD2012 Thu 25-Apr-13 14:18:05

Thank you so much for the responses.

Neither myself or DS's dad have especially sensitive skin, but clearly he has had a very bad reaction to the sun (assuming that's what it is and there is no other information being withheld). My fear is that he was left out in the sun for well over half an hour. In places it looks like his skin has almost 'melted'. I'm crying as I type this, it's just awful.

When the childminder turned up today she brought her DD with her. She is also sunburnt but not to the same extent. Nowhere near. That said, she does have a slightly darker skin tone, but even so. The difference between them is stark.

Packing up to go back to the A&E dept now - will check in when back to see if there are any more thoughts on here and to update you.

Thank you again so much for your support x

afussyphase Thu 25-Apr-13 14:18:49

Definitely get another opinion. Sunburn - even being out in the April sun all day - would not normally be that bad. Could he be allergic to sunscreen? I am very, very susceptible to sun, in a normal way, and it takes me a good 8 hours of tropical beach exposure to get multiple blisters. (I've tried it, unhappily enough)..
I've got a very mild sunburn from being out for several hours yesterday (here in the UK). Do you have any doctor friends that you could ask?

thebeastandbeauty Thu 25-Apr-13 14:21:25

"When the childminder turned up today she brought her DD with her. She is also sunburnt"

Doesn't sound good to me sad

I'm not trying to go on a witch hunt with your c/m here. But two burnt children in one day?

thebeastandbeauty Thu 25-Apr-13 14:21:43

Good luck at a and e, btw. Hope your DS is better very soon.

FannyFifer Thu 25-Apr-13 14:23:28

Bloody hell, melted, this sounds really quite odd reaction to the sun.

Make sure you are giving him plenty pain relief as well. Good luck at hospital, they might admit him.

Poor wee thing.

There is a medical condition called XP where children are allergic to light. Has he ever screamed before in bright light?

FannyFifer Thu 25-Apr-13 14:24:36

Plenty fluids as well, heat, blisters etc can make him dehydrated.

To all those saying sunburn can't be that bad over 30 minutes in April - well, I managed to burn my arms and chest lobster red during a 15 minute walk yesterday. It's possible.

Having said that, no degree of sunburn is acceptable and this sounds very severe indeed. The CM may not be lying about the length of time spent outside though.

Trazzletoes Thu 25-Apr-13 14:30:00

I have a friend who is allergic to the sun. It's pretty nasty.

And DS swells up like a balloon with certain suncreams.

It definitely sounds like this is more than just sunburn.

Thurlow Thu 25-Apr-13 14:32:03

If her DD was sunburnt as well that doesn't sound good, though I stick with the first thought that this does sound like an extreme reaction. Perhaps because the CM's DD doesn't burn easily she didn't realise your DS would. Which is certainly something I'd be having extremely strong words about.

I think, if it was an hour in the sun without suncream because the CM thought he would react as her DD did, and perhaps because your DS has reacted very strongly to something, I wouldn't be ending her contract but I would be having a very serious discussion about it, making sure she knows you were very upset, that nothing like this can happen again, that anything else happening will mean you'll terminate your contract, and as long as she is upset and apologetic I would still use her. If it was 2 hours in the sun... nope, I'd stop using her.

I hope you get seen quickly at A&E and get some answers.

popsnsqeeze Thu 25-Apr-13 19:06:17

Any news OP?

Coconutty Thu 25-Apr-13 19:10:07

That is awful. What did she say when she saw your DS?

Tanith Thu 25-Apr-13 19:13:47

It sounds like an allergy to me.

DS is allergic to many brands of suncream and produced almost exactly the same reaction to one brand: horrible blistering skin that looked in parts as though he'd been flayed sad

Why do you think the childminder is lying to you? More importantly, why are you telling your friends that the childminder is lying to you?
She might well be telling you the truth. Unless she has form for lying to you, I think you should believe her. Her own child having a touch of sunburn isn't really anything to go by, since she may well have stayed out longer than your DS.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:14:32

A lot of people got caught out with the sun on Tuesday. There is another thread in chat about a toddler who got burnt at nursery. I got burnt that day as well. I think the weather changed suddenly and because it didn't feel that hot, people made the mistake of thinking sun cream wasn't needed. I think it's understandable that she spent 30 mins with them outside without putting suncream on. A mistake obviously, but an understandable one. If her DD is only slightly burnt, I think your DS must have had an unusually bad reaction for one reason or another. If this is the case you can't really blame the childminder.

Did you put suncream on him in the morning before you sent him OP? Or put suncream in his bag to be applied later?

AllThatGlistens Thu 25-Apr-13 19:16:22

Good grief that's awful! So glad you're going back to A+E with him, hope you get some definitive answers soon sad

If it is indeed sunburn, I absolutely would not be leaving my child in her care again, it's negligent and bloody dangerous! Friend or no, your DS's health comes before anything, and you'd be worrying endlessly whilst he was in her care.

Hope you and your little one are okay flowers

CajaDeLaMemoria Thu 25-Apr-13 19:18:53

My little sister got burnt when she was 6 months old. SS had her, and left her outside for 2 hours. It was may, I think, not too hot. Her face swelled up hugely, and then collapsed. It looked liked she'd been in a fire.

She went in an ambulance, and the doctors tried burn treatments and creams and she had an oxygen mask. They concluded that she'd had a horrific reaction to sunburn, and needed to avoid it at all costs. Babies and sunburn don't mix well.

She'd properly scream and sob when we had to cream her sad she is better now though, no scars, and she doesn't burn badly anymore.

I guess babies just aren't meant to get burnt.

ReetPetit Thu 25-Apr-13 19:20:32

sorry this has happened to your ds op sad it must be awful for you both. it does sound a very odd thing to happen though - could your ds have some sort of auto immune issue going on? or some other undiagnosed allergy?
had you given the cm suncream to put on him? did she say she had/hadn't put any on him? how long did she say she was outside with him?
sorry for all the questions but it does sound highly unusual to react in this way to sun. It was hot on tues but not scortching hot. If your cm had taken your ds on a day trip in the summer and not used sun cream i could kind of understand this but i'm assuming she wasn't out all day and it wasn't hot enough, imo to cause such severe sun burn unless she has been grossly negligent (sp?) and quite literally left him out in it.
also strange that her own dd was sun burnt. Where did she say she was with them?

If this happened to my ds and I was sure it was caused by the childminders lack of care (ie, not a reaction to cream/not another health issue) then i would terminate the contract as i would feel the trust had gone but i do think there may be another issue at play here. I would be pressing the doctors for more testing if this were my ds and if they are definately saying it;s sunburn i would want to know how many hours he would have to have been out in it to react so badly

redwellybluewelly Thu 25-Apr-13 19:20:39

I am sorry for your son, that sounds absolutely awful.

I just wanted to say that our DD has quite sensitive skin, on Sunday we were out in the afternoon, it was warm, she had suncream on her face (borrowed from a friend) and a hat as well as long sleeves and jeans. The next day her entire chin was scaley and weeping, I can only conclude that it was the different brand of suncream.

On Wednesday when it was sunny but milder she was outdoors for five hours, again with her usual suncream and a hat. No burning, no issues.

AllThatGlistens Thu 25-Apr-13 19:22:06

Thinking on it, yes, people absolutely get caught out on mildly sunny days and get burnt, but she's a childminder, how was she not aware of the effects on sun on young children's skin?

Surely she's had experience in looking after mindees in warm, sunny weather? There's just no excuse sad

ProphetOfDoom Thu 25-Apr-13 19:26:19

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 19:27:01

I hope that he is better soon.

At the risk of being flamed you should put sun screen on him before you pass him over go the cm, if you want him to wear it. I am a childminder and I don't apply sunscreen. It's in my policies.

I try to make sure that the kids have limited exposure to the sun, I have a large shady garden. But I cannot guarantee that they won't get too much sun, because we will be outside much as possible.

If your child was playing with a water table he could have got deflected rays too.

I hope he is better soon, what a horrid thing for you both to have been through

ProphetOfDoom Thu 25-Apr-13 19:29:39

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:31:47

'but she's a childminder'

Her expertise in predicting the weather is no greater than anyone else. They don't teach that on a childminding course. So many people didn't realise how hot it was on Tuesday, at least half the kids at my DC's school were in winter uniform/coats etc.

I'm sure she is aware of the effects of sun on young children's skin, she may not have been aware of how warm/sunny it was.

If she was only out for half an hour, that could be; leave the house and walk to park (10 mins), play for a bit and then relaise it's actually much warmer than she thought, notice kids a bit pink and doesn't have suncream with her (10 mins), put back in the pram and walk home (10 mins).

Or she could have put suncream on him and it could be an allergic reaction.

ProphetOfDoom Thu 25-Apr-13 19:32:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReetPetit Thu 25-Apr-13 19:33:50

also op - you say he returned home from the cm on tuesday evening - did she not call you to collect him when she noticed his weeping/blistering sunburn?? did you collect at normal time??

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:34:31

Why littlebit? That seems like a crazy policy!

ProphetOfDoom Thu 25-Apr-13 19:34:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:36:09

'It suggests prolonged exposure or some other cause.'

That's pretty much what everyone is saying.

ReetPetit Thu 25-Apr-13 19:36:42

i also don't apply my own sun cream, for the reasons listed here - you run the risk of allergic reactions! I asked parents to provide their own (labelled with childs name) and to apply before/at drop off.

I have burned, in March, in the UK, as an adult. I am extremely careful with DD as a result, even though her skin is better than mine.

The problem is that people who don't burn like me don't realise that it can be so severe and quick.

I'm also not keen on sunscreen on babies so poor DD was in the shade with a hat for the first year.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:41:19

Would you apply the children's own suncreen though Reet? Say the parents rang you and said they'd forgotten to apply it that morning or hadn't realised how hot it was? Or it was a very hot day and it needed to be re-applied? Or they'd been in the paddling pool/water play and it had washed off? Or you'd wiped their face after food and it needed to be reapplied? Or any other of the 100 possible reasons suncream needs to be applied during the day.

ReallyBadBreath Thu 25-Apr-13 19:43:00

Why wouldn't you apply suncream as a CM? That's insane.

It sounds awful, your poor baby.
I do think though that it doesn't necessarily show a lack of care on the part of your CM. The weather suddenly changed and I guess she just didn't either realise how it was, or thought a bit of brief exposure to April sun wouldn't be harmful. There are news stories about how overuse of suncream and keeping children in the shade are causing Vit D deficiency. Getting the balance right can be a minefield.

ReetPetit Thu 25-Apr-13 19:44:36

Yes Outraged. I do apply it - just don't provide it smile

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 19:47:30

Child protection issues. There are loads of schools and playgroups and childminders who don't.

It was covered in my training recently.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:47:58

I think not providing it is fine, as long as you'll put it on when needed smile

efeslight Thu 25-Apr-13 19:49:16

Sounds terrible, hope he recovers quickly,
i was burnt very badly once, after i fell asleep on Brighton beach and had a similar reaction - deep red skin, then I started swelling up in different places...between the eyes so i looked like I'd been punched, then this went down and then other areas also swelled up, had 2 days off work and could hardly talk, so i can quite believe this is sunburn,
i also get coldsores after sun exposure so please avoid any contact at all with any carriers and keep a careful eye on the blisters when they burst

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:50:44

'Child protection issues'

That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard! What about protecting them from the sun?! Also I assume you change nappies? What about child protection then? Or is there a link between suncream and child abuse that I don't know about?

YoniRanger Thu 25-Apr-13 19:51:21

How is sun cream a child protection issue unless you are applying it where you shouldn't be?

I have honestly never heard anything so utterly stupid in all my life.

A childcare professional who changes nappies should be able to manage sun cream without becoming a peado.

I am stunned!

YoniRanger Thu 25-Apr-13 19:52:03

X posted with Outrage grin

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 19:55:29

Yoni those posts are so weirdly similar confused grin

minderjinx Thu 25-Apr-13 19:56:20

My son once got sunburn on a really cloudy, not especially warm, day. I wouldn't be that quick to criticise - I think we can all get caught out from time to time. I felt terrible but it has made me even more cautious.

We also have no idea whether she is a particularly experienced mother or childminder. Perhaps her own baby and this minded child are the only ones she has cared for.

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 19:56:59

April sun is as strong as August sun. I got sunburned in working for a few hours in the garden two days ago, where my shirt rode up a bit. Can well believe a baby would get sunburned in 30 minutes.

coffeewineandchocolate Thu 25-Apr-13 19:57:08

Did she put suncream on her? I only all as i had a similar reaction to suncream when on a school trip. It only happened on my face and my face was red, swollen and weeping. It turns out i was allergic to the suncream-it was factor 50 and applied regularly as i am very fair skinned so wasn't sun burn

littleducks Thu 25-Apr-13 19:57:18

The sun was deceptively strong on Tuesday, ds got a bit if a tan on his nose.

Did she apply any sun cream at all? If she did I would be tempted to think he either had an allergic reaction to it or for some reason it did not work effectively on his skin (I know done people bizarrely still burn with done brands).

If she didn't I think we would have to assume it us sunburn, perhaps a severe reaction. Again I have known people get hives from sitting in the sun.

Her dd being burnt to really does not look good. I would certainly be discussing it at length with her and I would decide how to proceed based in her reaction.

Well, we don't know what happened yet so Innocent til proven guilty. It could be an allergic reaction to the sunlight, sun scream , insect bites. There coulda been chemicals on the ground near where he was sat etched. Remember it's possible to become allergic to anything at any time so even if she has used the sunscreen a dozen times it doesn't mean that he wouldn't have reacted this time.

littlemefi Thu 25-Apr-13 19:59:02

I am very fair skinned and burn easily, as a child I had sunburn really badly and can remember my skin being red raw and weeping. Childrens skin is also thinner than an adults, so it is within the realms of possibility that your child was only out for half an hour in the sun.
My dd came back from preschool on Tuesday with pink cheeks, I hadn't put sun cream on her as was cloudy when we left home but very sunny by lunch; my DH got a burnt neck whilst gardening.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 19:59:14

I thought the same. When I was taught it by professional!

This is my job we are talking about! There's lots of things that I'm not supposed to do, that just seem crazy.

We also don't know if the other children got the sun burn whilst in her care.

MrsHiddleston Thu 25-Apr-13 20:02:47

Good grief, poor little thing. Friend or not you cannot continue with this childminder and I would go as far as reporting her to ofsted for allowing it to happen if the doctors confirm sunburn. The fact her own child has some sunburn speaks volumes to me, Tuesday was a sunny day here (south east) and I went slightly red on my shoulders from only 30-45 mins outside.
I hope you're all okay OP.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:03:24

Why would you want to to smother your kid in chemicals? A bit of sun is good for you.....vitamin d

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 20:08:00

'Why would you want to to smother your kid in chemicals?'

hmm

ermm......hang on.....it's on the tip of my tongue....

sunburn!! To prevent sunburn!

MrsHiddleston Thu 25-Apr-13 20:10:07

littlebit are you deliberately being difficult.

Any childminder who wouldn't protect my child by applying sun cream and then state they couldn't prevent my child from receiving too much sun but did have a shady garden - would be going nowhere near my child!

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:10:45

But there are kids getting ill from not having enough sun!

MrsHiddleston Thu 25-Apr-13 20:11:42

Good grief... I think you've been reading the daily mail too much.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:14:33

The children are dropped off and I ask has suncreambeen applied. If they say no the child stays in the shade.

If they say yes, they are allowed to play in the whole garden

If it's raining and they don't have a coat, we play outdoors under the shelter, if they have wellies and a coat we use the whole garden and go puddle jumping.

MissLurkalot Thu 25-Apr-13 20:15:43

OP, I hope your little one's ok... Thinking of you... I'm crossing everything for you.. x

ProphetOfDoom Thu 25-Apr-13 20:23:44

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RosieGirl Thu 25-Apr-13 20:31:46

To the OP - I do hope your little one gets better soon. This is a horrible situation. Your CM should go through all the correct protocols herself, marking it in her accident/incident book and probably informing OFSTED herself as you had to take your child to A&E. She needs to re-visit her policies and you need to speak to her to ensure you will be happy for her to continue care. Accidents DO happen and you shouldn't necessarily get rid of her, unless you have really severe misgivings.

Please remember everyone, we were suffering Arctic conditions the week before, NONE of my parents provided hats or suncream this week. No-one really believed it was going to be that warm. On Tuesday all my woolly hats, scarves and gloves were still out, and the summer hats in the loft. I couldn't get to them in time, and have no suncream myself yet. We tried to stay in the shade, but even then I still caught my shoulders and face, the children still had long sleeves on so didn't suffer.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:33:02

It was what I was told to do in my training. i'm not defending it,i'm just doing what I was trained to do.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 20:35:49

'Why would you want to to smother your kid in chemicals? A bit of sun is good for you.....vitamin d'

'But there are kids getting ill from not having enough sun!'

What's that ^ then? That wasn't defending it?

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:37:45

Sorry, I'm not defending myself, I'm just doing what I was trained to do.

narmada Thu 25-Apr-13 20:39:24

How utterly ridiculous that anyone is training anyone not to apply suncream. The trainer has misunderstood child protection policy I think. I suggest you check again with your local children's safeguarding board.

OP I hope your little one is ok sad and that things resolve with your CM.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:40:19

I don't believe in using suncream for the reasons outlined above... But you can if you want

Cravingdairy Thu 25-Apr-13 20:41:39

I am intrigued to know the secret to keeping children in the shade on a sunny day without physically restraining them.

There is no way I would use a setting that refused to apply sunscreen to my child.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:41:52

Just out of interest....how many of your children have sun cream applied at school by a teacher?

LynetteScavo Thu 25-Apr-13 20:42:19

I think a lot of people were caught out on Tuesday. It wasn't that hot...but was certainly sunny. I'm not surprised an inexperienced (if she is, I don't know) childminder didn't realise how much damage could be done in that weather. If your DC is 10 months old, their skin probably hasn't ever been exposed to any sun before.

Did it occur to you to send your DC to the childminder with sun hat and cream that day, EmilyD2012?

Oh, and I wouldn't use a childminder who refused to apply sun cream.

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 20:42:19

In general most children and adults for that matter in the uk are not getting enough exposure to sunlight without sun block to absorb enough vit d, so littlebit is right. NHS information here, which says to cover up before you get burnt, not before you go out in the sun. Most of our Vitamin D comes from the sun.

narmada Thu 25-Apr-13 20:43:22

Well that is ok littlebit, your choice. It is true we are chronically short of vit D. But personally I would rather take a supplement and NOT risk malignant melanoma..... or looking like a wrinkly old handbag vain

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 20:45:32

And most sunscreen contains aluminium, implicated in various nasty diseases. It does indeed contain many nasty chemicals. The least noxious way of protecting from the sun is clothing, but you can't cover a face and a tan is the body's natural way of protecting itself from sunlight, not the signs of some hideous reaction to the great homicidal orb in the sky. Dear sweet god, we evolved for millions of years under the sun- why has it become the enemy? Chances are the OP's baby did not get a ray of sunshine in the whole of last year so his body is learning how to deal with it. In all honesty though, that does sound quite an extreme reaction.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:47:05

You can't take a vit d supplement

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 25-Apr-13 20:48:17

it was hot in kent tuesday, i sat in my garden and caught the sun on my face/shoulders while reading for about 30mins - and my skin loves the sun and is used to it, yet i still went a tad red when out of the shower

sounds to me your dc got burnt, 30mins in sun is a lot for a 10mth old sad and even more so if didnt have cream on

by 10 am or so it was obvious it was going to be a nice day so why didnt your cm put suncream on - im assuming she didnt as op didnt say the cm said

as a nanny im prob over zealous with suncream on my charges but better that then burnt

what are her policys for suncream/will she apply /use her brand if you/others didnt supply any

only you can decide op if you can trust cm again - it sounds like an accident, but one that shouldnt have happened -

i know of nannies who have had burnt charges - their fault sad, i have gone into work on a monday and had burnt charges as parents hadnt creamed sad

both as just as bad as each other

minderjinx Thu 25-Apr-13 20:49:49

I ask all my parents to apply longlasting suncream before the children come to me (though in practice some of them don't). It's about time, not child protection. Most of them have one child to do - I would have typically five or six over the course of an eleven hour day, plus my own two. Of course I'm happy to top it up if they get wet or have to be washed, but I also ask parents to put the same cream in their changing bags, just in case a different brand might cause an adverse reaction (and I suppose covering myself from getting blamed if my chosen brand caused a problem). I wouldn't find it feasible to keep indoors or in shade all the time - I have to wait in line outside to pick up from nursery for example.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:50:27

Can take a supplement.... (fat fingers!)

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 20:51:02

But it's more chemicals

ZolaBuddleia Thu 25-Apr-13 20:51:25

OP, what about your baby's hands? Any reaction there?

Surely suncream applied at drop off isn't going to last until the end of the day? How odd, surely putting on suncream is the same as changing nappies, giving medicine etc?

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 20:56:04

duchesse 2,600 people a year die from skin cancer. How many die from aluminium poisoning from suncream?

EmilyD2012 Thu 25-Apr-13 20:57:16

Hi all,

I'm overwhelmed by the lovely messages of support on here - thank you so much.

Back from the hospital and have been told that that DS is suffering second degree burns to his face. I am devastated. He has been referred to the burns unit at 9am tomorrow where I'll hopefully be able to get some more info as to how this happened.

In the meantime I've had to wash his face with sterilised water and slather it in vaseline to lock in the moisture, which he didn't enjoy very much. I just feel so awful for him suffering in this way.

As far as I can tell there are two options - neither of which are particularly pleasant:

1. The CM has not been entirely truthful about how long DS was in the sun for; or
2. DS has a severe allergy to the sun which has only just manifested itself.

I will update again once I have seen the burns specialist - I'm hoping they'll be able to confirm which of the two options it is...or let me know of another mystery option that I'm missing!

Thank you again so much for the words of wisdom, it's been a really big help.

x

PS Tanith I haven't told any of my friends my childminder is lying - where did you get that from? What I said is that the doctor disputed her version of events, not me. I have told my friends exactly what I have written here; i.e. the truth as I know it. The CM has admitted that she left him in the sun with no lotion on, but maintains that it was only for 30 minutes.

PleaseDontEatMyShoe Thu 25-Apr-13 20:59:02

littlebit-of course you can take a vitamin D supplement hmm The NHS recommend all children from 6 months-5 years should have one daily. Do you discuss your thoughts on suncream and nutrition with your charges parents? I certainly wouldn't be happy to leave a child in your care-you don't seem very bright clear on basic facts.

OP, I really hope your poor DS is feeling more comfortable, is he able to sleep at all?

PleaseDontEatMyShoe Thu 25-Apr-13 21:00:24

Missed your last post OP, I do hope all goes well with the specialist tomorrow

minderjinx Thu 25-Apr-13 21:01:34

Oh and our local primary school will not apply suncream. They do keep children in at playtime if they say they have not had suncream applied or do not have a sunhat. I don't have an issue with that as the teacher would be pushed to get any teaching done if she had thirty small children to suncream. There are plenty of good 10 and 12 hour formulas available which will should keep them protected all day, and in any case I think it is good to teach the children young both to be sensible about how much time they spend in full sun and how to reapply cream themselves.

HSMMaCM Thu 25-Apr-13 21:02:04

I am a CM and have permission forms signed, so I can apply suncream. I do not put it on if they are out in the sun for 5 mins at 8am, but I definitely do if they are out for 30 mins at midday.

Thurlow Thu 25-Apr-13 21:03:03

Oh, Emily sad You poor thing, hope you all manage to get some sleep tonight.

I do think it's a fair point about people not realising how warm it was going to get. I know I sent my DD to the CM without sunscreen, it didn't really cross my mind, and I suspect if I'd had DD at home I could easily have left her out in the sun a little too long by accident.

Have a good chat with your CM and see if it was genuinely an accident that she is willing to work through. But obviously the most important thing is your gut, and if it tells you that all is not right then change CM.

Let us know how your DS gets in tomorrow.

LynetteScavo Thu 25-Apr-13 21:04:34

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat, no teacher has every applied sun cream to my child. Neither have they changed their nappy, applied nappy cream, or rocked them to sleep.

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Thu 25-Apr-13 21:04:55

OP, how awful. Your poor DS. Hope the burns specialist can help. I think I'd be inclined to ditch the CM. Even if it was only 30mins, that is still way too long for a baby to be in the direct sun.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 21:06:58

Pleasdonteatmyshoe please read my corrected post. I'm on a mini tablet and the buttons are tiny and I have auto suggest.

I said you can take a supplement but that's more chemicals.

Hope the ops childhas a good night and a good prognosis

LynetteScavo Thu 25-Apr-13 21:07:08

What ever the cause, no baby should go through this.

flowers

DontSHOUTTTTTT Thu 25-Apr-13 21:07:09

Your poor boy, I hope he feels better soon. It must be very painful.

I know it doesn't make it ok but I noticed 3 or 4 people with quite bad sunburn today. One lady was very bright red all over her legs, arms and face. Even my very sensible friend had a bright red sunburnt nose. I think the weather caught a few people off guard. It was sunny but not that hot.

(This obviously does NOT excuse your child minder)

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 21:09:40

Our school don't apply suncream either. Being a primary school the very youngest child there will have just turned 4 years old. A 4 year old is clearly significantly more capable of applying suncream than a 10 month old. You cannot compare a childminding setting, where children will be from weeks old in some cases to a school where children start at 4 years old.

Our school also don't feed the children. If I collected my starving 6 month old from a childminder who wasn't able to feed them because they had too many other children 'and anyway the local primary school don't feed children' I'd be fuming.

Applying suncream is basic care, if you've too many children to do it you're looking after too many children.

Gobbolinothewitchscat Thu 25-Apr-13 21:10:09

Oh you poor love. I'm so sorry to hear this and glad you got a second opinion. Will keep everything crossed for you that things go as well as they can at the burns unit.

Re the childminder: you need to terminate the contract. Don't worry about notice if it is the case that the docs advise no allergy and she has left poor little DS out in the sun too long. In that instance you could argue that essentially her gross negligence breached the contract and you are no longer bound by the terms.

If the docs do say that DS does have some type of sun allergy then I think you need to think if you want her looking after him. If you do, then notice not an issue. If you don't then you would need to pay the notice but hopefully she may feel so bad she'll waive it.

WouldBeHarrietVane Thu 25-Apr-13 21:14:18

So sorry to hear about the burns sad

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 21:15:50

I won't do it, it's against my training. I don't agree that all kids need to be slathered up to the nines in chemical concoctions when simple precautions can mitigate the need for it.

I don't ban children who are wearing it, but as a parent using my setting I expect you to ensure your child is ready for the day and that means in suncream if you want the to wear it.

Nurseries in our area ask you to do the same and they have similar ratios to mine

FacebookWanker Thu 25-Apr-13 21:20:16

I hope your DS manages to sleep well. I'm so sorry to hear about his burns and hope you get some answers tomorrow.

BonzoDooDah Thu 25-Apr-13 21:20:57

Poor boy and poor you. Glad you went back to A&E to get him treated again.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 21:21:19

littlebit You're free to run your business how you see fit. You have it in your policies and, I assume, make sure parents are aware of it so it's fine.

I personally think anyone sending their child to someone who doesn't 'believe' in suncream is either a complete idiot or has very little regard for their child's well being.

TimothyClaypoleLover Thu 25-Apr-13 21:22:59

My DD's nursery applies suncream to the kids. They just ask parents to sign a consent form. I personally don't understand how anyone providing childcare to preschoolers can get away with not applying sunceam in hot weather.

OP, your poor poor baby. I have a DS the same age and makes me feel sick that your CM left him in the sun for half an hour, let alone if it turns out it was longer. Did she say what time of day it was that she left him in the sun? I personally would be looking at terminating the contract if it turns out she is at fault as I would not be able to trust her going forward.

GirlWiththeLionHeart Thu 25-Apr-13 21:23:12

Jesus fucking Christ, this is horrible!

I would actually: 3. Sue her arse.

narmada Thu 25-Apr-13 21:25:48

OP, so sorry about your boy, you must be worried. Hope the specialist can give you some advice tomorrow.

narmada Thu 25-Apr-13 21:27:38

I do see what people are saying but honestly, I have taken my two fair-haired, blue-eyed babies out for half an hour in full sun without cream, and they haven't got burned and suffered blisters. Something doesn't add up here, like others have said.

5madthings Thu 25-Apr-13 21:33:08

Oh your poor wee boy. I.hope he has a comfortable night, have they said to.give him calpol or any pain relief?

We were caught out by the sun this week and ds4 got pink cheeks and ears. So its sun hats and a roll on suncream in school bags now.

At pre-school were told to.put it on when we dropped them off and then leave a labelled bottle so they could reapply as necessary. the nursery my ds1 went to was the same.

It does sound like he was in the sun for much longer than half an hour or he is allergic to the sun? Or allergic to suncream?

Hope the drs at the burns unit are helpful tomorrow xx

ratbagcatbag Thu 25-Apr-13 21:33:45

Have a look at polymorphic light eruption, I suffer with it, it's generally worse at the onset of bright weather and your body is supposed to build up immunity as the year goes on. It's more common on arms and chest (where I suffer) I had years of being fine, getting sunburned far too much, however five years ago it suddenly happened, not quite as bad as a reaction as above, but it was bad and painful.

Hope you LO gets the treatment he needs and recovers soon

littlestressy Thu 25-Apr-13 21:37:08

OP I hope you and your son are doing ok, I know how scary the words second degree burns are. My DS suffered burns (not sunburn, hot water) this year.
Hope you get all the help and answers from the burns specialists you need, keep applying the Vaseline it's good stuff.
Do pm me if you want to talk about burns, scars. Sending un-mumsnetty hugs your way and I'm thinking of you and your son ((()))

outtolunchagain Thu 25-Apr-13 21:47:05

My dh has polymorphic light eruption, it came on quite suddenly about 6 years ago .

OP I hope you get some answers tomorrow

Cherriesarered Thu 25-Apr-13 21:48:08

I cannot tan ever and burn after 20 mins in the sun. I always get caught every year. I only once got burnt on my shoulders and back which resulted in blisters and felt very ill indeed. This was after a day at the beach with a friends parents who didn't realise how fair I was.

My childminder let my DS's cheeks get slightly pink as she didn't realise how easily she burns but really was gone in two days and she felt terrible!

The all day creams are the way to go although my CM tops up anyway now as is paranoid!

Floralnomad Thu 25-Apr-13 21:52:48

I hope your baby gets well soon . If its any reassurance I've always burnt easily and badly and in my teens had 2nd degree burns ( from the sun) to my legs , I had burns dressings and massive swelling ,it was extremely painful but there was no scarring .
littlebit I'm staggered that you have any clients but each to their own !
OP , change your care arrangements ,even if it turns out that it was a 30 minute mishap you will never trust this lady again and will spend all your time worrying about your baby . Good luck and best wishes for tomorrow.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 21:55:18

Outraged. I was trained not to do it, my policies say that I won't. I ask if suncream has been applied when the children are dropped off. If it's in the bag the parents can put it on themselves, if they want to.

Armed with the information about how well protected, or not, then children are, I set up suitable activities in the shade or in the sun. I limit the amount of time they spend in the sun.

How is that negligent??????????

I don't believe in covering them in chemicals when there Are suitable alternatives, but then I also don't belive that a bit of squash in their water bottles are a good idea either. They get water. It's good for them, and it's about as natural as you can get these days.

I also don't believe in television for the little ones whether is good clean air and plenty of space to run around in. But I suppose they won't get any bumps or scrapes or sunburn if they sit indoors either.

I promote a good healthy outdoors in all weather's lifestyle and I'm amazed at some of the responses I've had.

I sincerely hope op's little one will recover soon, but using or not using suncream is not always the issue.... What other steps did tbe cm take to protect the lo?

firesideskirt Thu 25-Apr-13 21:58:00

I am so sorry to read this sad. Hope he is doing OK OP.
I would terminate the contract. I suspect she left him out a little longer than she is admitting to (as she is scared and horrified by what's happened) but even 30m in full sun is too much for a baby. I don't think you will ever trust her with him again, will you - which is a reason in itself to end the relationship.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 25-Apr-13 21:58:19

'How is that negligent??????????'

I didn't say you were negligent.

IwishIwasmoreorganised Thu 25-Apr-13 22:03:54

How scary. OP.

I hope he managed to sleep tonight - you too, and that tomorrrow goes well.

X

MrsHiddleston Thu 25-Apr-13 22:04:19

littlebit so long as you make the parents quite aware of your policy and your 'training' in this matter, and that the parents are comfortable with you using your shady garden as the only sun protection when they're out there all day. And your feelings about nasty chemicals of course.

I'd run a mile and certainly wouldn't sign up for your childcare.

Wishwehadgoneabroad Thu 25-Apr-13 22:07:49

sad your poor little boy. I hope the docs are able to give him something for the pain and that he'll get better soon. flowers

It's entirely possible that he burnt in 30 minutes. All depends on how he reacts to the sun, which given he is only little, you probably haven't had chance to find out yet - until now.

However. I don't think I could use the CM again. I just wouldn't trust her. Surely she noticed that he was burning? I can't imagine he didn't at least look uncomfortable??! What the hell was she doing!

Thinking of you and your little boy.

TimothyClaypoleLover Thu 25-Apr-13 22:09:14

littlebit - I am genuinely interested to know whether all CMs are now being trained not to apply suncream for child protection reasons or whether it only relates to certain areas. I used a CM about a year ago and signed a form consenting to application of suncream. Not having a go but just wondering as surely it would be a disadvantage to CMs over nurseries and other forms of childcare.

I'm so sorry about your ds x I hope they have him feeling better soon thanks

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 22:16:57

I did my training last April.

I was told not to apply suncream since it was a child protection issue.

If there is no issue then why are there people on here admitting to having to get parental consent in writing before applying it.

It is completely different to nappies and such because they are a necessity, suncream isn't.

Babies and children are pure, little things, you worth about what they eat and their diet, yet youdont worry about the chemicals they are exposed to?

How many of you switched washing powders to non bio when your baby came along? Why? Because you didn't want harmful chemicals next to your babies skin.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 22:17:51

Worry not worth

ReetPetit Thu 25-Apr-13 22:18:25

as far as im aware, cms are not being trained to not apply sun cream.

how far would you go in your policy on this littlebit? you say you won't smother children in chemicals - does that mean you don't use any creams of any sort? what is so terrible about sun cream?

i ask parents to provide their own which i then apply. this is to cover myself should their child have a reaction to my brand and also because it's bloody expensive!!

In the same way, I ask parents whether they want me to give calpol should their child have a temp. i obviously try to avoid this if poss, but if it's a toss up between calpol and a fit, i'd rather go with the 'chemical' option.

i don't think cms are being advised or trained anything - i think it is down to the individual to do what they see is fit.

i would say though littlebit, i think you are playing a dangerous game if you are using no sun protection on your mindees and am very surprised that parents are happily signing up for your service - sorry!

ReetPetit Thu 25-Apr-13 22:19:29

and op, i am very sorry to hear about your poor ds. have you told your cm the latest news? what is her reaction? i would be completely mortified if this happened to a child i was looking after. there is someting odd about this, i feel.

5madthings Thu 25-Apr-13 22:23:46

There is not an child protection issue re applying sunscreen, my dp works with child protective services and you are talking crap.

The issue is as reet says that you need permission for any cream, calpol etc and to know the child is not allergic, hence asking parents to send in their own which is what most pre-schools, nurseries and childminders do.

I wouldn't send my child to a nursery or child minder that wouldn't apply sunscreen if necessary. I tend to go for loose baggy clothing and a big hat and then suncream if necessary, but it really is essential at times, unless you don't care about sunburm and increased risks of skin cancer...

Cherriesarered Thu 25-Apr-13 22:24:06

How can applying sun cream be a child protection issue when you are in a position to change their nappy??? I'm sorry the training was either shut or the interpretation is shit! With parents consent there should be no problem. I wouldn't use you because with super fair skin my child would get burned!

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 22:25:09

I am using sun protection, just not suncream. As I have said, shade, limited time, and of course sunhats and long sleeves. I'm not neglecting them in my garden for heavens sake

I won't give calpol unless I have a signed medical form.

What's so bad about getting parents to put on the suncream?

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 22:27:05

Thanks 5madthings but your husband wasn't on my course.

VivaLeBeaver Thu 25-Apr-13 22:27:33

Hope he's feeling better soon and that you get some answers.

HSMMaCM Thu 25-Apr-13 22:28:08

Littlebit - several of my mindees parents would be happy with your policies. I take the children out in long sleeves and wide brimmed hats, but I do apply sunscreen if they are out in the sun for longer than 15 mins (also dependent on child's skin reaction to sun). I was also told in training that I should not be applying sun screen, but I do, because I have parents permission.

MatriarchalDreams Thu 25-Apr-13 22:30:07

OP, I'm so sorry, that sounds like a horrific experience for you both, really hope that you get good care tomorrow and your son soon recovers.

Littlebit, doesn't that really restrict what you do with your mindees? Your garden may be shaded but if only one child's parent has forgotten to apply sunscreen or has not realised/predicted how warm it's going to be on any given day, you have to stay in on that day, no trips to the park or walks around town, no walking to/back from school/pre-school. The fact that my child will be able to do these sorts of things has been a big factor in DH and I choosing for her to go to a childminder's when she starts in childcare next month.

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 22:37:01

hsmmacm. So you were told not to. What if you are happy not to?

Should I go against my training and what I believe is a healthy way of life because the parents won't apply suncream to their own child?

I don't leave them in the sun and I care for them really well....but I feel like people are all having a go when the solution is really simple......put it on your child before your little one comes here.....

They will be having a fab time here, yet it's been suggested that I parent should be boycotting me, for something the parents won't find 5 mins in their
day for. I feel that's a tad hypocritical.

lisalisa Thu 25-Apr-13 22:39:03

I don't want to be the one to say this but I know what would be going through my mind..... The doctor says its second degree burns. Can this happen due to sunlight for half an hour ? Seems remote to me. Is it possible your ds got burnt due to something else on his face?> I really do hate to raise this but would feel worse not to and then OP sent him back to childminder and something else happened. OP if this upsets you feel free to pass over/ignore but it was in my mind. Not suggesting a deliberate injury but could it be your ds got hold of something at hcildminders that he shouldn't and childminder panicked and blamed it on the sun? Just think the 30 mins outside is stretching it for second degree burns. AFter all it is April and England not August in the middle east

littlebitofthislittlebitofthat Thu 25-Apr-13 22:39:26

Matriarch dreams.....I expect that when you drop off your little one and I say....have you put suncream on, you will say yes, or no, but I'll do it now.

That's what has happened successfully so far

narmada Thu 25-Apr-13 22:49:20

I don't think it's that, littlebit.

It's just that, as people have rightly said, whoever told you that applying sun cream was 'a child protection issue' is misinformed and is relaying misleading information. Just because someone's teaching you it, it doesn't mean it's correct! Who was the training provider - private company??

I think many on here are skeptical of claims about the evils of 'chemicals'. You sound like a nice childminder, and I wouldn't have a problem using you because of your beliefs about these things, but I certainly don't agree with you on those points.

Squash - pah. Aluminium and chemicals in creams - again, pah. Pales in comparison to real risks of sun exposure. Bio washing powder - pah. Only thing it's missing is enzymes. And the human body is full of those grin.

MatriarchalDreams Thu 25-Apr-13 22:51:48

Yes, but what about days like Tuesday when it wasn't really that obvious that it was going to be so warm at 8am? And what happens in the afternoon when you've had to wipe the whole of my baby's face and her hands and wrists and maybe legs if she's got a romper/dress on because she's got food all over herself (despite her long sleeved bib) so now the sunscreen I've applied at 8am has been wiped off? Or if she's playing with water in the garden and got herself wet and you've had to dry her off, again wiping off the sunscreen?

geologygirl Thu 25-Apr-13 22:54:35

Your poor baby! I hope the specialist can advise on the cause and help your little one.

Problem is that not only was your child burnt but doesn't sound like the CM did anything about the supposed sun burn either. Until the heat has been taken out of the skin, the skin still burns which has probably caused it to become seond degree burns. Whatever the outcome tomorrow with the specialist, I would not be taking my child back to that CM. The trust has gone and your baby has suffered unnecessarily.

I hope little one makes a speedy recovery. Bless you both.

doughnut44 Thu 25-Apr-13 23:04:54

My policy is that the parents should apply cream in the morning before the children arrive that way I know that they can play out in the morning with no problems. I will apply it again if we are out in the afternoon (parental permission obviously) as I would not want to be responsible for a sunburnt child. I think a bit of common sense is required here. With the best will in the world it is hard to keep a child out of the sun on a gorgeous day. All any childminder needs to do to cover themselves putting sun cream on is to get the parents to provide their own and sign a consent form

christinarossetti Thu 25-Apr-13 23:06:25

Sun in April is as hot as August. It doesn't take that long for skin, especially young skin - to burn.

That said, I would be horrified if someone had allowed my baby to get sunburnt, let alone so badly.

I hope that you get good help from the Burns Unit and that your son gets better quickly.

What was/is the childminder's reaction btw?

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 23:06:31

April sun is as strong as August sun.

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 23:07:25

Sorry, x posts christinarossetti!

christinarossetti Thu 25-Apr-13 23:07:49

But doughnut, OP is talking about a 10 month old baby, not a toddler or older child. There's no way the cm wouldn't have been able to keep him out of the sun just by ensuring he was in the shade.

QOD Thu 25-Apr-13 23:08:15

Oh poor baby sad

My dd was allergic to most sun creams, she'd blister up and look like she had chicken pox, only ambre solaire worked on her

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 23:15:26

Outragedfromleeds: more difficult to ascertain of course how many die from aluminium related illness than from skin cancer, but your question to me implies that all skin cancer is caused by the sun.

TimothyClaypoleLover Thu 25-Apr-13 23:16:41

"If there is no issue then why are there people on here admitting to having to get parental consent in writing before applying it."

IME parents are asked to sign all manner of consent forms when putting their children into childcare and many of them are nothing to do with child protection issues.

littlebit - I think you sound like a lovely CM but I still don't understand your strict training of not applying suncream. Surely if parents are sensible and send their children to you with hats, long sleeves and trousers you would only need to apply suncream to minimal areas. Have you had to not proceed with taking on a mindee because of your policy or do you find all parents accepting of it?

duchesse Thu 25-Apr-13 23:17:51

Professor Chris Exley is a leading expert on aluminium and he doesn't believe it's safe to be so readily consumed/slathered on.

Flourfairy Thu 25-Apr-13 23:28:03

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/6082488/Link-between-sunscreen-and-Alzheimers-Disease-being-investigated.html

Cravingdairy Thu 25-Apr-13 23:29:50

You have to reapply sunscreen regularly so just applying it at 7am is useless IMO if you are outside after about 10am particularly if you factor in hand and face washing before/after meals etc.

Tanith Thu 25-Apr-13 23:30:04

Emily, I got it from your OP, where you say that some of your friends think such a careless act is unforgivable and advise you to remove your child from the childminder's care.

fieldfare Thu 25-Apr-13 23:32:17

So many people blaming the childminder without conclusive evidence that it was her fault. There are other reasons that this may have occurred - allergy to sunlight or an allergy to something used on his skin. I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to your poor ds OP, and I hope the appt helps him and sheds some light on what happened.

As a cm myself I apply sun cream (parents provide it) as and when necessary, just as I use nappy rash cream (parents provide it) as and when necessary. There really is no difference IMO. My daughter arrived home from school on Tuesday with sunburnt cheeks and nose - just from the 20 min walk home, it was a very easy day to be caught out on. I think that people shouldn't be so quick to judge the CM until the reason this has happened can be confirmed.

Exhaustipated Thu 25-Apr-13 23:48:33

I am so sorry this happened OP sad
Just a thought- I have an 8 month old baby and due to this incredibly long grey winter she has hardly seen any sunshine.

I would guess your DS is similar? Born in the summer but kept out of the sun as a young baby, the rest of his life in the long winter... so perhaps if it is a sun allergy it isn't surprising it has only just become evident.

Whatever the cause, I very much hope he makes a quick recovery and that you both have some sleep tonight.

twofalls Fri 26-Apr-13 00:29:41

But littlebit, sun cream needs to be reapplied. What happens then? I Agreeon the vit d point but there is a balance., And how on earth do you keep a toddler in only one part of a garden??

doughnut44 Fri 26-Apr-13 07:17:58

There is a suncream from boots called once that only needs to be put on in thw mornings and will last approximately 6 hours.
I advise my parents to use this and I top up. I also request long sleeve thin tops and a wide brimmed hat. I top up cream when needed. There's more of a child protection issue if no cream is used. Sometimes you need to bend the rules and what you are told on courses isn't always right

KittieCat Fri 26-Apr-13 07:52:27

I think the 'chemical' argument is flawed. The Telegraph article is from 2009 and refers to the EU funded 'NeuroNano' project. It was a three year collaborative project. There don't appear to be any project outputs but I assume it has finished.

Details here:
http://www.neuronano.eu/sections/AboutNeuroNano

OP really feel for you and your LO. My only advice is wait until you've got all the info before you decided ref CM. That said, it isn't a ringing endorsement...

KittieCat Fri 26-Apr-13 07:53:51

Decide not decided. Sorry

Branleuse Fri 26-Apr-13 07:58:36

that sounds really extreme. it sounds like an allergic reaction I had on my face once

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Fri 26-Apr-13 07:59:15

At 4mo, in April 2011, my DS3 had a reaction like this. It was a reaction to a hypoallergenic sun cream. I have had to patch test every sun cream in the market.

Strangely the one DS3 reacted to is the only one DS2 doesn't react to - so I now have to buy separate sun creams for each of them!

littleducks Fri 26-Apr-13 08:49:52

I think the chemical argument can be side stepped, I don't like the idea of using a chemical sunscreen and my kids do react (I have on surprise sunny occasions borrowed from a friend). So I use a barrier sunscreen instead. The only downside is that I haven't found one that lasts all day but tbf I don't think any would due to the getting dirty/washing and sweating blush repeatedly throughout the day and perhaps it is better to not be complacent that it will last all day long and reapply, which means less likelihood of missed spots.

littlestressy Fri 26-Apr-13 10:26:03

OP how is your son today? Did you get to see the burns specialists this morning?

TimothyClaypoleLover Fri 26-Apr-13 12:16:25

Yes Emily, please let us know how you got on with the burns specialist today. Can't stop thinking about your little boy and hoping you have managed to get some answers.

Karoleann Fri 26-Apr-13 12:24:09

I looked a friends 5 and 7 year olds on Tuesday both boys were out for 30 mins in the garden and burnt. I was really mortified, my boys were fine.

But, they were 5 and 7, so I wasn't watching them constantly - surely your 10 month old is constantly supervised at childminder and she should have seen that his skin was burning. It's not something that happens instantly. I wouldn't let my 1 year old in the garden without supervision never mind a 10 month old.

EmilyD2012 Fri 26-Apr-13 12:31:59

Back from the burns unit with relatively good news - the consultant is confident that there will be no long term scarring, although it may take up to a month for the marks to fade.

DS is doing ok, he was quite tearful after the fourth person had a poke around but is now sleeping it off. I feel a lot better to know that this episode, along with the scars, will not be with us forever.

The consultant was adamant that DS had been left in the sun for over half an hour. He said the blisters were consistent with him being left in direct sunlight for up to two hours. I asked whether it was possible that my son was hypersensitive to sunlight and he said that not only was it an extremely rare condition, but it would have likely manifested itself before now.

The awkward bit comes now. The paediatric consultant said that, given the extent of his injuries, it is standard practice for social services to get involved and that they will need to interview the CM. I am now trying to figure out how I can let her know without making sound accusatory.

Thank you again for the kind words of support; when I wrote my OP I had no idea that there were so many lovely mums out there willing to offer support.

x

Tanith I think either you've misread or I've not been clear. My friends said the CM was careless to let this happen, which she herself admits. My OP made no reference to her lying. Throughout this process it has been medical practitioners - not me - who have doubted her version of events.

PeterParkerSays Fri 26-Apr-13 12:37:59

EmilyD2012, I'm not sure that you do need to let the childminder know in advance. If you say something, and she suddenyly puts procedures in place to ensure they all have sunhats etc, it won't be an accurate picture on what is happening at that childminders.

Waferthinmint Fri 26-Apr-13 12:47:09

You are being far too nice to CM. just let professionals take over now and do their job.

Thurlow Fri 26-Apr-13 12:49:17

That's so good to hear that the burns will fade and won't leave any scarring. Two hours is far too long though sad. Do you know if the hospital have called SS and they are automatically going around to your CM's?

I would call her and say that you've had to go to the burns unit and the doctor says the burns are consistent with being in direct sun for hours. Because of this, you don't feel that it was just an oversight or being caught unawares by the sun, and so you aren't happy are longer for your DS to be looked after by your CM (unless you are, if she agrees to new procedures etc). You don't have to tell her about SS. You can always say that you didn't know SS would be going around to visit.

Floralnomad Fri 26-Apr-13 12:49:20

Just tell the CM what the consultant said , that because of the extent of the injuries SS may wih to speak to her . There is nothing accusatory about that , having said that I assume you will be leaving her so she can read what she likes into that . I'm glad you're baby is going to be ok ,but as I said last night I had similar sounding burns and no after effects .

TimothyClaypoleLover Fri 26-Apr-13 12:58:11

Emily - so pleased that you have had relatively good news with regard to your son's injuries.

I know this is going to be hard for you, especially seeing as you are friends with your CM, BUT this does need to be dealt with by social services and any childminding officials.

To leave a baby in the sun, unprotected for up to 2 hours is completely unforgiveable. Your CM probably knows how serious this situation is and has possibly lied about the length of time in the sun. Whether or not she is lying though you do need to let the professionals deal with this.

Oh and I would definitely terminate the CM arrangement with immediate effect.

WouldBeHarrietVane Fri 26-Apr-13 13:11:37

Very glad to hear there is likely to be no permanent scarring and I think you have to let social services deal with this now.

Some un MN hugs to you.

xx

ReetPetit Fri 26-Apr-13 13:20:39

glad to hear things are bit better today op.

i think you are being far too nice - just let the hospital/ss do their job - don't worry about it, and personally i wouldn't give her a heads up either. If she has nothing to hide, then you/she have nothing to fear.

ReetPetit Fri 26-Apr-13 13:21:14

if you really are as nice as you sound - you could just repeat what the consultant has said and mention that ss may contact her...

TimothyClaypoleLover Fri 26-Apr-13 13:28:20

Oh and if this will be going down some sort of official route I would make sure photos are taken of your DS although obviously there will be hospital records as well.

Also, if you prewarn CM she may try and pressure you into not taking it further because you are her friend so might just be best to report it first before saying anything to CM. You could always imply that the hospital instigated it.

jamtoast12 Fri 26-Apr-13 13:30:12

Would SS actually get involved though? When dd had an accident at 6 months and we went to a&e (burnt on cup of tea) we got a quick call from the health visitor to check all was well but not SS?

Whilst I am not condoning your cm, your DS reaction is probably more unusual and severe than most and your cm obviously feels bad. As a friend of yours too I would be forgiving and not sack her. She couldn't have predicted such a reaction and often sunburn isn't apparent for a few hours so she probably didnt notice initially. Given her children were not overly burnt suggests she didnt keep him out all day. Not sure where you live but it wasn't exactly August weather, there's no way I'd have even thought of putting cream on my kids in this weather. It was a bad mistake on her part but I think she probably knows that.

Personally I'd hope SS have more important things to deal with than this careless one off mistake by your friend.

TimothyClaypoleLover Fri 26-Apr-13 13:38:53

jamtoast - did your DD have an accident whilst at CM or in your care? Also, yes the weather was a bit unexpected but I still thought to put suncream on my kids and think about the time of day I was out and about with them. It's common sense.

I think the issue with the CM here is whether or not she is lying to OP about the amount of time the baby was left in the sun. CM says half an hour maximum. Specialist says 2 hours. This in itself needs to be addressed as if CM is lying about this I would worry what else she would lie about regardless of whether she is my friend or not.

MrsHiddleston Fri 26-Apr-13 13:45:52

I'm glad that the consultant thinks there will be no long term scarring.

You must do what you feel best. But personally, friend or not... I would terminate contract with childminder, report to ofsted and leave ss to do their job.

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Fri 26-Apr-13 14:05:32

I am glad about the good news.

I see no need to find a way to tell your friend CM. If it is standard procedure, it is just that.

Best wishes to your little one.

FacebookWanker Fri 26-Apr-13 14:07:33

How bad was the accident Jam? When my friend fell down the stairs with her DD she had random visits from SS for a few months afterwards, even though there was a witness to corroborate.

Glad to hear he is doing better.

You are far too nice to this CM.

I would report her to Ofsted, to be honest.

Borntobeamum Fri 26-Apr-13 15:35:11

I hope you're little boy is better soon.

Can I just add, when my mum hit 74, she became ultra sensitive to the sun and burns just like it seems your son has.
She cannot tolerate any more than 15 minutes.
She refuses to be in direct sunlight at all now.
She was absolutely fine prior to this and although wasn't a sun worshiper, she had many holidays in hot countries and never had a problem.

She's 81 now.

geologygirl Fri 26-Apr-13 17:49:44

Very pleased to hear that there is not going to be any lasting damage OP. Let SS do their job and terminate your contract with your friend. Im sure she didnt mean for this to happen and she no doubt feels terrible, but she has not cared for your child properly and clearly left the kids out in the sun for a very long time. She seems to have very little understanding of the danger of the sun and comes across as pretty blase about it. You had to aak her round so she could see the injuriea and realiae you werent being OTT! That speaks volumes...

Stay friends with her if you want to, but just don't employ her as your CM. If she's any kind of friend she will understand that her contract cannot continue.

geologygirl Fri 26-Apr-13 17:50:43

Sorry for spelling....damn phone!

ReetPetit Fri 26-Apr-13 17:52:09

did she not call you to collect your ds op when he was covered in sunburn? i'm assuming it got worse after you took him home but it must have been very noticeable to her. did she not call you before normal pick up time?

littlestressy Fri 26-Apr-13 18:32:00

Glad to hear your son is ok and you got reassuring news from the specialists.
Hope you're able to have a cuddly weekend x

KDKDKD Fri 26-Apr-13 18:50:57

agree 2nd opinion required and take some photos just in case you need to evidence it in the future. Hope your little one recovers soon.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 26-Apr-13 19:25:10

2nd degree burns sad

Glad that doc thinks no scarring will happen but agree must have been in sun for over 30mins

I still don't get why cm didn't cream
Your ds sad it's standard practice for child carers sad

I wouldn't mention to cm that ss may pay her a visit - if they do then go via the hospital and nothing to do with you

So will you allow to keep looking after ds or are you giving her notice

babyboomersrock Sat 27-Apr-13 11:11:12

"paediatric consultant said that, given the extent of his injuries, it is standard practice for social services to get involved and that they will need to interview the CM. I am now trying to figure out how I can let her know without making sound accusatory"

It's not your problem, OP. You don't "let her know". At the moment, you have no way of knowing what - if anything - they will do. The consultant may have been trying to let you know how serious this is, that's all - I don't think he was suggesting it was up to you to tell the CM. It's out of your hands now.

If there was no friendship between you, and this was a business transaction, what would you do? Just shrug it off? To be honest, I'd be livid if a friend allowed this to happen to my baby - but for a registered CM to allow it is inexcusable. Other people's children need to be protected, even if you're happy to forgive her.

Yes, 2 hours in the sun unprotected is dangerously ignorant.
So glad to hear he won't be scarred.

duchesse Sat 27-Apr-13 12:36:14

I swear that when I got burnt last Tuesday even though I didn't spend more than an hour at a time outside because I was shifting rocks and needed frequent breaks (every 45 mn or so). I got burned where my top rode up above my trousers so not constant exposure either.

I am old (45), I have already burned many times on my back (leathery), yet even I got burned in short bursts of outdoor activity on that day. I think the paediatrician may be wrong on this one (they aren't always right) so I would take what he said with a pinch of salt.

Cherriesarered Sat 27-Apr-13 13:22:11

It's good that DS will be okay! I have to say that I would agree about the at least two hours business in the sun business as the only time I have ever burned like that I was out for 2 or more hours!

ProphetOfDoom Sat 27-Apr-13 13:35:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MaryPoppinsBag Sat 27-Apr-13 15:18:38

Could your baby have been put outside for a nap in his pushchair?

Just can't understand how a CM could let this happen. hmm

(I am a CM myself and just would take the risk)

tomorowisanotherday Sat 27-Apr-13 17:37:43

the baby could have been left in the shade for half an hour, but the sun could have been magnified off the greenhouse ( or reflected off a car)

there could be an innocent explanation, but that doesn't help the OP

RescueCack Sat 27-Apr-13 18:07:07

We all burned on Tuesday, except 1 yo DS who was kept in the shade. Because he burned on Saturday blush

This sun is as fierce as summer and I think your childminder could well be telling the truth about 30 mins. HOWEVER, I think 30 mins is too long for a small child to be in direct sunlight. They need to be popping in and out of the shade constantly. My family are a bunch of burners and I've had burns like your poor baby up until my 20s most years because I simply couldn't believe how quickly the sunlight affects me. 10 minutes or less sometimes. And people were stopping me in the street to ask what had happened - it looked like I had had horrific accidents with boiling water sad I can't even hang the washing out without a cover up.

In little's defence, even with this background, I wont use sunscreen. It is potentially a bigger cause of skin cancer than the sun itself. That's from a dermatologist friend who begged us not to use it. There have been massive assumptions made about the causes of skin cancer.

I hope your little darling is feeling better soon. I feel sad every time I think of him sad.

OutragedFromLeeds Sat 27-Apr-13 18:12:45

'I wont use sunscreen. It is potentially a bigger cause of skin cancer than the sun itself'

Have you got ANY evidence to support this? If it doesn't come from the Daily Mail, so much the better.

LIZS Sat 27-Apr-13 19:08:17

Poor chap , do hope he recovers quickly. Personally I don't think either child should have been exposed to direct sunlight for even 30 minutes, especially without a hat or sunscreen or hood up on pram if napping. She sounds inexperienced , is her baby her first ? How many children has she minded before and have you had any other reason for concern ?

Lala29 Sat 27-Apr-13 20:11:15

I think you are being incredibly generous to your childminder. Whether its 30 mins or 2hrs, it's just way too long for a 10 month old baby who has never really experienced the sun in his life. If she went out without sun cream, she could have borrowed or bought some on the way or returned home. I can't believe anyone is defending this childminder at all. Friend or not, accident or not, your little boy has 2nd degree burns! She should be glad you are not pressing for a criminal convictions, let alone carrying on with your contract. After all, if I accidentally run over someone in my car, I can fully expect to be prosecuted!

By the way, I burned after an hour in the sun on Tuesday and I tan very well and have darkish skin. My husband, who has very fair skin can burn in the shade without suncream. So I can't believe any childminder out there wouldn't put suncream on children. It's irresponsible and stupid frankly. Surely you believing in the merits of it (little) or not is not the point. If the parent wants to use suncream on their child, that s what matters. The first thing I did on Tuesday was get suncream for my DD.

I am so glad your little boy will be ok. Big hugs and all my thoughts are with you.

tazzle Sat 27-Apr-13 20:43:56

I am really sorry yor LO has experienced such a level of sunburn, glad it is not going to scar and hope he is feeling better.

I can certainly understand needing or wanting to have someone take responsibility for this happening. .. most people do especially where babies are involved

If it was a month later and sunny I bet all of us would invariably have applied sunscreen and / or put hat on. There have been many many people caught out by Tuesday... a very cold morning not long after freezing weather turning very suddenly warm....but where we were not even warm enough to remove cardi or jumpers. I was out with walking group and tbh one of us... a very pale person with sensitive skin did get a bit red.... one a little pink... but rest of us ok. We were out for about two hours hottest part of day.

We were all very surprised anyone affected at all.

Maybe its something to do with more uv light getting through depleted ozone layer
Maybe also combined with sensitive skin.

Not saying cm has no responsibility at all...just that maybe she is not totally incompetent or a danger to children.

Trying2bMindful Sun 28-Apr-13 01:35:50

I haven't read all the posts as there are so many but just want to say my 11 mo got badly burnt on Tuesday in the sun. I'm sacking my nanny as it is the final straw after a long list of issues.
I hope your LO recovers soon.
IMO bad sunburn in April on such a young child is unforgivable in the UK....

There is now a warning out re high uv levels

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/spring-sun-advice-from-public-health-england

http://news.uk.msn.com/trending-blog/health-chiefs-issue-sunburn-warning-uk-weather-385619

cumfy Sun 28-Apr-13 13:33:03

Those links are odd sillymilly!

They link back to this .gov site

1. It doesn't specify what these "abnormal" levels of UV actually are.

2. It doesn't give the normal Met Office type advice for this time of year which is generally:

It might feel cool but the strength of the Sun is now exactly the same as a scorching hot day in mid-August.

3. It also tries to conflate the temperature with the strength of the Sun implying cold temperatures necessitate low UV. Completely false.

Basically I would be very surprised if the Met Office formally endorse that this is in anyway abnormal for late-April.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/spring-sun-advice-from-public-health-england

It states on that link

PHE has raised a sunburn warning after measurements of ultraviolet (UV) radiation at sites across the UK revealed unusually high levels.

cumfy Sun 28-Apr-13 15:42:59

Yes, but they're not saying we were expecting level 5 UV but wholly unexpectedly recorded level 10s.

They make it sound like there's a hole in the ozone over the UK, or something that makes the UV levels inexplicably outside that normally expected.

The people who are expert at UV levels is the Met Office not public health bods.

bishboschone Sun 28-Apr-13 15:44:05

I'm not sure what region you are in but I was caught out by the sun on Tuesday and I'm ashamed to say my ds got burnt. We were at farm with suncream on and were stationary in a sandpit for probably half an hour . His face was very red in one part but has almost faded and gone today. He wears glasses and I feel the part of his face that got burnt was where the sun was magnified somehow on his face as his friends without suncream weren't burnt at all. I can't tell you how guilty I feel but it's a lesson learned . I'm admittedly quite blasé about the sun and feel having a bit of sun is good for them but I hugely underestimated how hot it was . I hope your son's face is better soon.

nokidshere Mon 29-Apr-13 20:17:45

OP I hope your son recovers quickly.

To the people who are saying how hot it was on Tuesday I want to know where you live!!!!

It has been sunny here for a few days over the past week,or so but it is still freezing cold!!!

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 29-Apr-13 20:49:17

kent lol

also sunny sat, sun and today grin

bishboschone Tue 30-Apr-13 08:06:55

Sussex here

duchesse Tue 30-Apr-13 09:39:33

Devon here. Last Tuesday certainly wasn't "hot", in fact quite the reverse, but it was very sunny, just like today. I can actually hear weeds growing in the garden now...

twojues Sun 12-May-13 19:49:21

How's your little one now? Is his skin healing well?

Struckachord Sun 12-May-13 21:39:05

This happened to me - on holiday in June on a bright but not hot day. OP I thought I was scarred for life but it was fine. I do now wear factor 25+ religiously :-)

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