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Paying childminder whilst child in preschool

(70 Posts)
Messedupmind Wed 06-Feb-13 21:30:59

Wanted to get other views and opinions as new to this....

If a childminder has a child normally for a full day, then said child starts a preschool session once or twice a week, if the childminder takes and picks updo they get paid whilst child is in preschool? Basically so parent is paying preschool and childminder?


FlouncingMintyy Wed 06-Feb-13 21:38:10

Yes, because the childminder could not fill the couple of hours that are now free with another child, so would lose money.

BlueStringPudding Wed 06-Feb-13 21:40:04

Yes, we had to do this, as you're effectively stopping that slot being taken by another child..

cece Wed 06-Feb-13 21:40:48

Yes, standard practise around here.

ReetPetit Wed 06-Feb-13 21:43:15

yes, standard practice smile

LingDiLong Wed 06-Feb-13 21:43:35

Yes, afraid so. For the reasons the others have stated but also if it's a preschool that shuts for school holidays you will still have childcare all year round.

OddBoots Wed 06-Feb-13 21:44:23

I've heard it happen a lot. As a childminder is self employed they can set their own terms and they would lose a lot of money if they put an un-fillable unpaid slot into the day.

Schooldidi Wed 06-Feb-13 21:47:31

Yes I'm going to be doing that after Easter. My cm can't fill the space for 2 hours every morning (who wants those hours for childcare?), and can't take a child for longer because she has my dd.

Are you going to be paying the pre-school? Or is it the funded hours?

Messedupmind Wed 06-Feb-13 22:12:57

Thank u everyone. Not funded sessions yet, so have to pay.

I wouldn't mind but childminder has no other children so not stopping a space as such.

But nothing I can do I suppose just annoying having to pay someone for doing nothing. Childcare costs are enough already! My boss won't be paying me double to make up forit! :0)

ReetPetit Wed 06-Feb-13 22:15:46

hmm you are not paying her to do nothing. She is taking your child to and from pre school and I assume on standy should anything happen to child during pre school hours??

and the fact she hasn't got any other children is not your concern. she could take someone on tomorrow or get a call tomorrow and have to turn it away because your child is using those hours.

childminders have to make a living too....

HSMMaCM Wed 06-Feb-13 22:19:55

Your CM won't have much time free by the time she's dropped off and got back home, until she has to go back to pick up.She will presumably keep your child if pre school is closed and during school holidays? I prefer not to take children to pre school and breaking up the day is more hassle to me than the benefit of any time off.

You have choices ... find a CM who doesn't charge for that time, don't send your child to pre school, wait until you have funded hours, or any other ideas you can think of.

Messedupmind Wed 06-Feb-13 22:20:02

U make it sound so cut and dry. So this works for before and after school care then? :0)

ReetPetit Wed 06-Feb-13 22:22:34

your child is taking up an under 5s place. it is different for before/after school....

13Iggis Wed 06-Feb-13 22:22:58

Nursery is a better option in that regard, as you will get a reduction in fees (if they are a partner provider with your local council)

difficultpickle Wed 06-Feb-13 22:23:02

Care ratio is different for 5 and over. Perfectly normal for under 5s in my experience. You don't have to use a CM you always use a nursery instead.

ReetPetit Wed 06-Feb-13 22:25:21

and i don't mean to sound rude but if it's only once or twice a week it's not going to be massively expensive to pay both. but your cm will not be able to fill one or two 2 hour sessions a week.

looneytune Wed 06-Feb-13 22:26:17

Totally normal to charge in this situation.

HSMMaCM Wed 06-Feb-13 22:26:43

This is why I registered to do the funded hours, so the children can stay with me and their parents get the money saving.

HSMMaCM Wed 06-Feb-13 22:27:21

What will your child get from pre school that they won't get at a CM?

13Iggis Wed 06-Feb-13 22:29:09

How long is the session? Here it is 2.5 hours. Quite a bit of time if you live nearby. I agree with paying it by the way, but I don't think it's always true that you are preventing a younger child from having that place as surely ratios mean that more children over 3 can be minded than younger ones or babies.

OutragedFromLeeds Wed 06-Feb-13 22:29:23

Standard practice.

If it's too pricey, don't send him/her to pre-school. A childminder will provide the same learning opportunities as a pre-school and should take your child to playgroups etc where they can mix with other children.

From 3 you will get funding for a pre-school/nursery place.

MirandaWest Wed 06-Feb-13 22:29:42

I paid my CM when my DC were at preschool - if they had been ill the CM would have picked them up.

PatriciaHolm Wed 06-Feb-13 22:29:44

Presumably you would expect the CM to pick up your child were they sent home from pre-school sick, or indeed to have them if pre-school were closed? The CM is still effectively in loco parentis for those hours, so needs paying. Pre and post school may well be different, as the CM can fill the middle hours with pre schoolers, but you may still have to pay some retainer for the school hours if you would expect the CM to pick them up if they were sent home sick, or on an inset day, for example.

Messedupmind Wed 06-Feb-13 22:30:06

No youre right but works out at about £10 a day - £20 a week - £80 to £100 per month extra. All adds up doesn't it!

HSMMaCM Wed 06-Feb-13 22:30:22

No ... for CMs it's up to age 5. Not the same ratios as nurseries.

SizzleSazz Wed 06-Feb-13 22:31:23

Personally i would (and did) wait until they are funded before starting preschool. No need to start preschool before 3 IMO.

HSMMaCM Wed 06-Feb-13 22:31:45

Sorry ... my last post was in reply to 13Iggis

HSMMaCM Wed 06-Feb-13 22:32:52

People forget that pre schools follow the same curriculum as CMs.

ceeveebee Wed 06-Feb-13 22:33:05

Why do you want to pay for a preschool place - why not just use the cm until you get the funded hours?

ReetPetit Wed 06-Feb-13 22:35:35

well messedup - that's how it it, it's not the cms fault you are sending your dc to preschool during your contracted hours. It adds up for you, but it adds up for her too, she has bills to pay and that is the monet she expects to earn each month.

and for 13Iggis, it would be preventing a younger child from taking the space. our ratio remain the same until a child is rising 5 and in full time education.
What is the liklehood of ops cm being able to find a parent who wants only 2-4 hours of care at the exact time op's dc is in preschool? And what happens if said dc has an accident and needs collecting? cm is then over her numbers!!

Blondeshavemorefun Thu 07-Feb-13 06:31:44

I assuming op's child is under 3 - hence no funding - so why send them to pre school if at a cm

Wait till your child is 3 op

And yes afaik all cm charge while the child is at pre school as they and fill the space for 2/3hrs so they would be out of pocket

Groovee Thu 07-Feb-13 06:44:13

I had to pay the childminder for the nursery hours when my D's was there. This was because she was the one on call for him during those sessions. So a couple of times nursery had to be closed due to circumstances beyond their control and she had him for the session hours where as had she filled the place, he would have had nowhere to go.

Twinklestarstwinklestars Thu 07-Feb-13 06:46:57

I'm a cm and charge while mindees are at preschool, I would collect/keep if it was shut but I wouldn't collect if they were ill/injured as I have the same exclusion periods as the school.

MortifiedAdams Thu 07-Feb-13 06:49:32

Why send them if you pay for.both??

OddBoots Thu 07-Feb-13 06:50:46

Is the pre-school telling you that you need to start now or lose your place?

ripsishere Thu 07-Feb-13 06:58:23

What an extraordinary question. I don't use a CM (DD is almost 12), but, the CM can't just have a child for the hours that suit you can she?

13Iggis Thu 07-Feb-13 07:59:14

There is a different ratio for babies (under 1) and pre-schoolers here (I'm in Scotland). Don't know that it makes much difference to the issue though.

Messedupmind Thu 07-Feb-13 10:13:38

Ok thanks for ur comments. Just wanted some opinions :@)

Tanith Thu 07-Feb-13 10:48:52

It's not money for doing nothing! Really infuriates me when parents say this!
Not only is she taking the time to drop off and collect your child and provide cover for when he or she is not at preschool, she will be doing extra work trying to liase with the preschool to keep learning journeys, planning etc up to date.

You don't have to send your child to preschool. If you do decide to use one, you are taking up two places; one with them and one with your childminder. Why should she have to subsidise your choice?

ceeveebee Thu 07-Feb-13 11:12:37

Maybe you should also ask her to knock an hour off while your child naps, as she's not doing anything then either?

HeadFairy Thu 07-Feb-13 11:17:49

OP, I couldn't get my head around this at first either - I don't even get paid lunch breaks but my childcarer gets paid 10 hours a week with no children to look after, but it is the norm to pay your childcarer (be it nanny or childminder) while your child is in some other setting, mostly because of the very reasonable reasons people have posted on here. If my dcs were to be ill during the school/nursery day it would take me an hour to get to them, our childminder is only 15 minutes away so it does mean I can ask her to collect them if need be. Plus ours usually uses the time to prepare an evening meal for the children so I'd say she was really still working for us.

shesariver Thu 07-Feb-13 11:29:31

This attitude makes me furious, money for nothing indeed...whats so hard to understand that the child is taking up a place and you are paying for the place, even if the child goes to nursery for 2 hours or whatever, the cm wouldn't be able to take on any other child just for those few hours.

minderjinx Thu 07-Feb-13 12:30:00

I take three children out and back to take one child to pre-school. It's a chore I could frankly do without, but it's what the parent wants. The other parents are content with the arrangement as they will probably want a similar service in a year or two. But I would be horrified to think that the parents of the first child considered they were paying me money for nothing. As others have said, it is their choice to send their child to pre-school. It is extra effort (and petrol) for me to take them there and back, and places constraints on what else I can do and when. Meanwhile I am still working, albeit with one less child, and as Shesariver also rightly points out, some of that marginally less busy time is spent preparing either food or activities or both for that one child's return.

RosieGirl Thu 07-Feb-13 13:17:14

Taking into account travelling times, you expect her to hang around and be available to be there for your child, when you can't be, but you will "paying her for doing nothing" is she going to cover the holidays? Why can't you wait for funding if its such an issue.

Oh and do you get paid for your holidays and bank holidays, many childminders don't (I know some do) do you see it as being paid for doing nothing, or part of your contract with your employer?

RosieGirl Thu 07-Feb-13 13:19:24

Maybe you can ask for a refund while the child is asleep, as the childminder won't be doing anything then either.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 07-Feb-13 13:32:50

The child being at pre-school isn't comparable to a lunch break.

If you were at work and the computer system went down and this prevented you doing the main bit of your job would you expect your pay to be cut for those hours? You'd still be at work, you'd find little bits to do, tidy up your desk, clean the crumbs from the computer keyboard etc. When the computers came on, you'd get back to work. This is a closer comparison to a childminder/nanny having no children because of school/pre-school.

Childminders do much of their paperwork, training courses, tidying up after mindees, setting up in the morning, shopping for mindess outside of the hours they chrage you for. Would you like a bill for these hours in exchange for not charging while they're at pre-school?

Jiddle Thu 07-Feb-13 13:47:23

OP you do know you'll probably also have to pay the CM a retainer to keep the place while you are on holiday too?

Messedupmind Thu 07-Feb-13 21:45:42

Wow! I only asked a simple question to ask what was the norm - didn't expect people to rant at me the way a lot of u have? Thought this was a site to get some friendly advice and opinions not to get "bullied" into ur way of thinking.

Thanks to those who have given friendly advice and opinions.

OutragedFromLeeds Thu 07-Feb-13 21:47:23

'But nothing I can do I suppose just annoying having to pay someone for doing nothing. Childcare costs are enough already! My boss won't be paying me double to make up forit! :0) '

It was that ^ that got everyone's back up, not the original question.

HSMMaCM Thu 07-Feb-13 21:52:56

Messedupmind - CMs are a bit sensitive at the moment, because we're being.messed around by the government. Feel free to come back and ask advice, we are usually quite friendly.

marriedinwhite Thu 07-Feb-13 21:53:44

But you have a choice - you don't have to send your child to pre-school.

Tanith Thu 07-Feb-13 21:54:59

Your original question was answered perfectly amicably, Op.

You know why posters became annoyed: the offending comment was quoted a number of times.

DontmindifIdo Thu 07-Feb-13 21:55:09

You might be better using a private nursery or preschool at a prep school, most will then mean you can drop off earlier (I drop at 7:45am), then having the childminder pick up from the nursery or preschool. That way you are only paying one care provider at a time.

Some childminders charge a 'retainer' for those hours that are a reduced rate.

or if your DC isn't old enough to get the funded 15 hours, I would see if you can hold your place at the pre-school until your DC is able to get those hours for free.

ReetPetit Thu 07-Feb-13 22:17:02

messedup - your comments were really very rude about your childminder - read them back to yourself and see what you think.
you came across as very resentful at having to pay her 'for doing nothing' and made other comments which implied you felt she wasn't deserving of her wages.
if you don't want to use a childminder, don't use one. Childminding is her job. You should treat her with the respect she deserves. She is a self employed person working from her own home providing a service. If you don't wish to use that service, don't.

It is parents with attitudes like yours that makes good childminders want to give it up!!

doughnut44 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:29:11

I would still be charging although I don't do pre school runs anymore. The reason I stopped was because it disrupted my day. If I took the other children to a playgroup I had to leave early to collect the preschooler - quite often they would fall asleep in the car going to pre school and it was not fair on them having to put them in and out of the car.
I also had to feed the preschooler which cost me the same whether they were in the full day or only paid me for an hourly rate so I was actually losing money - prob not explained that right really.
Then there was petrol costs, travelling time to this about - what if I got stuck in a traffic jam/delayed whatever whatever.
I would say though that i think your little one would be better off staying with the childminder and not going to pre school until the September before they start school - kids are institutionalised early enough in my opinion x

Mutley77 Thu 07-Feb-13 23:39:49

Yes I do pay for pre-school and childminder. I think it's perfectly fair enough - by the time she has got home then left to pick up again there isn't really any time left in between! But then I don't see childcare as being about my income/costs, it is about what is fair to the provider and about meeting my child's needs. Unfortunately it is a fact of life that people need paying and it makes no difference to my childminder whether or not this takes a higher percentage of my income - she is still doing a job for me.

teenagersmother Fri 08-Feb-13 06:56:59

if you booked a holiday cottage for a week and went out on a day trip would you expect to be charged less as you weren't using it for the day ? Of course not-it has been booked for you for the whole week. Same principle I feel.

You are paying for the childminder to keep the space free for your child. If you choose to then send them elsewhere during that time that should make no difference to the childminder as it's your choice.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 08-Feb-13 08:14:25

Why do you want to send your under 3 (assume this as no funding) to pre school when you have a cm?

As others have said it was your remark about paying cm to do nothing that annoyed the cm's on here

I'm a nanny but the same applies - when charge is at nursery or school I still get paid as I am on call if they fall over /bang head / are sick etc

Sounds to me you would be better off waiting till 3 and funded before using a pre school smile

Mrscupcake23 Fri 08-Feb-13 09:02:42

To be fair to the op she was only asking and childcare is very expensive. I am a nanny and get paid when child goes to preschool I do odd bits of batch cooking and other jobs and I am on call. However a lot of the time I am getting paid for nothing and I do love my mornings.

I suppose my mb can afford childcare but I can sort of see where the op is coming from if money is tight. In answer to your question yes you do have to pay.

NickNacks Fri 08-Feb-13 09:21:56

If money is tight then why is she looking at a paid pre school spot?

FlouncingMintyy Fri 08-Feb-13 10:06:11

I think people are possibly being a bit chippy on this thread because, basically, its a bit of stupid question. What does op think the cm is going to say? "Oh that's fine love, just deduct 2 hours fees a day, no problem". Its not really difficult to see that that's just daft so why would you need to elicit other people's views and opinions?

shesariver Fri 08-Feb-13 10:12:06

Thought this was a site to get some friendly advice and opinions not to get "bullied" into ur way of thinking

No-one has carried out any bullying, a very easy thing to trot out because people have actually disagreed with you. As tanith said, you know why you got the replies you did in response to what you posted.

13Iggis Fri 08-Feb-13 11:29:29

Childminders who do before/after school care do not charge for the school element. Obviously that is a much longer block, but I can see why someone would therefore ask if they charge for the nursery time.

HSMMaCM Fri 08-Feb-13 11:50:34

Children who go to school could not be replaced by other children though, as they are in a different age bracket.

NickNacks Fri 08-Feb-13 12:56:32

What she said ^

Titchyboomboom Sat 09-Feb-13 09:02:19

I only charge when I am the standby at the moment

Ginger43 Sun 10-Feb-13 09:49:07

Why send your child to per school if you've got a childminder... Ask her to go to a toddler group or mix with other childminders and their children if you feel that your child needs socialising... But yes you have to pay your cm for wrap round care and give her some respect for her profession.

13Iggis Sun 10-Feb-13 12:48:23

Well I would want pre-school for a 4 (maybe 3) year old as I think they would also focus on the pre-school curriculum we have here, there is a teacher involved with their learning, and they would be meeting quite a few children who would be going on to the attached primary school. Sometimes it must be easier to just have children of the same age together.

ceeveebee Sun 10-Feb-13 12:49:45

Agree - and at that age its free (for 15 hours a week)

HSMMaCM Sun 10-Feb-13 13:14:01

I childmind 4 yr olds and follow the same curriculum as the pre school and ensure they mix with children they might go to school with and give parents the 15 funded hours.

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