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Is this acceptable?(44 Posts)
Hi all, could I ask a quick couple of questions of other nannies on here? I am feeling a bit annoyed, but not sure if I should be or not.
Firstly, when doing the school run, would you feel happy about collecting another child who is not your employers' on a regular basis being responsible for them for about half an hour?
Also, what would you do in a situation where you were told to pick up the extra child but not left an car seat for child (thereby making it illegal)?
Wouldn't have a problem picking up an extra child as long as I had been consulted and that child's parents were paying me for the half hour.
Would not under any circumstances let a child get into car without a car seat.
Depends on how regular/how long/if I was being paid extra/if I knew in advance the dates-days etc.
No carseat no childcare
Not a nanny but i wd refuse to pick up a child with no car seat. I wd also expect my boss to consult with me abou the extra child and offer to pay a bit more.
What the others said. Extra child ok as long as I was consulted, paid and the contract modified (just so they were clear that it was this one child and it was all formal).
Thank you for replies. I am not being paid for the extra child, it is part of a reciprocal arrangement between parents to share school runs. I guess I was rather upset about the missing car seat, in the past on the odd occasion where I had to collect the extra child, I have always asked them to leave a car seat for me, however I wasn't informed this time and found myself having to get one at very short notice (the extra child's mum was at home so I collected one from her on way which kind of begs the question why I'm doing school run for her when she doesn't work). Anyway I feel justified in going to my employees and saying someone must provide car seat without being seen to make a fuss.
Ok, so sometimes you don't have to do the school run, because the other Mum does it?
If that's the case then I suppose it's not a big deal.
Has it always been this way or is it a recent thing? Did they consult you first?
You must tell them that you can't be hunting around for an extra carseat in the mornings and that they need to have a spare in the back of the car, otherwise it's too much aggro and you won't do it.
I will never understand why people take such risks with their children's lives. Even if it wasn't illegal I wouldn't drive a child without them being safely strapped in.
I'm a mum with a nanny for my 2 and would definitely not pay extra for the additional child for 1/2 an hour as where we are the parents and the nannies all constantly help each other out with reciprocal arrangements for pick ups and drop offs. I don't think you should be expected to do this without a car seat - maybe its an oversight - sure if you raise it and say you need an extra car seat to keep in the boot for these occasions they would be fine to pay for one.
It sounds to me as though your employer offered to 'lend' you to the other parent on a regular basis - rather as though they owned you and you had no say in it! I wouldn't do it without an amendment to the contract and definitely no seat = no childcare.
As a mum with a nanny I would not expect to pay my nanny to collect a child and keep them for thirty minutes where there was a reciprocal agreement in place, in the same way I don't pay my nanny when one of the DCs has a friend for a play date nor deduct her pay when she has child free days due to the DCs being elsewhere.
Car seat issue would depend on a number of issues: whether it was a one off and a genuine error in forgetting to leave it. Plus of course age of child: my 22mth old travels NOWHERE without a carseat, my 8 year old occasionally does.
I have to say I don't like your "she doesn't work, why can't she pick up her own kid" tone
If it's reciprocal do you have days when you don't collect your charges?
It depends whether you are getting the benefit of the other half of the reciprocal arrangement.
If you are not, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to charge for the extra child. If the reciprocal arrangement means that you get a time which is paid for fully but with fewer children than you are being paid for on another day then it would not be reasonable.
You should certainly kick up a fuss about the car seat issue and charge a fee for the inconvenience if you are expected to travel to pick one up again.
"Charge a fee for the inconvenience""
Ha ha ha!
The OP is a nanny, in loco parentis and presumably well paid to be so and driving her bosses car. Stuff happens during the course of any day: a child needs taking to a non regular appointment; forgets a bag that needs collecting etc these sorts if errands are part and parcel of working life.
I may have misunderstood - I was assuming the extra errand was taking place in her own time outside of the time paid for by her employer. If she's being paid for that time then you are right.
I think nannies are paid by the hour, and not by the child. However, as a nanny employer, I would not make an arrangement to regularly add a child to the morning routine without discussing it with the nanny first. As a one off, I might offer the nanny to a friend in a pinch, but not every day.
I think the OP is talking about an additional child during her normal working hours, and not a change to her hours.
Regarding the car seat, agree with everyone else comments that is an absolute requirement.
As a nanny, unless it caused a huge problem (ie couldn't get to regular after school activities or children hated each other) I'm not bothered about collecting other children. You never know when you will need a favor.
Wrt car seats, I'd refuse point blank to collect without a car seat, and unless it was easy for me to.collect en route wouldexpect the car seat to be brought tome or left at school for collection.
Have bought an extra car seat and parents are reimbursing me so that is problem solved. I guess I wanted to be sure I wasn't being taken advantage of. As far as the reciprocal bit goes I do the afternoon school runs each day ( I work from 12 to 5.30) so I don't do the morning school runs anyway. Perhaps I should have said. Anyway, it seems it is normal practice for a nanny, so that is fine, I have only been doing the job for a short time and don't know any other nannies. As for my comment about the mum being at home, it was a bit off the cuff. She does work normally and I was a bit stressed about it all, as I had to drive out of my way to get the car seat, thereby making me late as it was a bit of the panic, so didnt mean to be offensive. Thanks for your replies anyway.
I'd expect my going rate for a nanny share for that half an hour if it was a regular occurrence.
I don't feel it's normal either as a nanny employer for it to be assumed that you'll do this without any kind of recompense. It's disrespectful and thoughtless of you employer to just land it on you. A reciprocal arrangement is fine, but if the parents want you to take on their share of reciprocation they should be paying share rates. Also it should have been discussed.
Who exactly is your boss here? Are you ultimately responsible to family 1 and their needs take priority (eg sick child so you don't do the school run and don't pick up family 2's child) or are you obliged to do the school run for family 2?
There are potential insurance issues (are you actually nannying this child? Are they covered by your liability insurance? Your car insurance?) so I really don't think arrangements like this should be nebulous.
If someone wanted to borrow my nanny (or my au pair) I'd expect them to pay them or at least get them some kind of treat if it's a one off. Equally if reciprocal favours are arranged I don't expect my nanny to look after someone else's child because that child's mother looked after DS for me. I organise a time I can return the favour. If it has to be on nanny's time I pay because she's doing extra work for me in my stead. She isn't an extension if me or a possession! If it was to cover the nanny's absence that's different but usually it's the nanny who organises cover for that as she knows who's likely to be ok with it on that working day.
so basically your mb gains not doing the odd am school run and you gain a child a few times a week
seems a tad unfair esp if the parents didnt ask you
not having a car seat is a no car and i would be furious if wasnt expected to collect a child and no seat given
fraktion what do you do when your DC have friends over? Do you pay extra?
My DC probably have at least 2 play dates a week (one each for the two old enough) and I am firmly of the view that dealing with those DC is part of the nanny job description.
I'm truly amazed that others think it goes beyond normal expectations
Having friends to play is an entirely different kettle of fish because they're usually reciprocated by nanny having fewer children at some point when the play date is returned and the DC amuse each other, so over 2 hours it balances out the extra work involved in an additional pickup, set of possessions, child to look after.
This is just hassle for the OP and I used to deeply resent as a nanny being
told asked to pick up a child and drop them home without the favour being returned or any appreciation. Most parents thankfully recognise that you're doing the rubbish bit without any fun if you run a taxi service for them.
as frak said, playdates are different from boss's assuming and lending their nannys services without asking the nanny first
I am flabbergasted that anyone would think it's ok to tell a nanny/aupair that she'll have an extra child half an hour each time (half an hour every day equals 10 hours a month) for no extra pay and without asking her first!
We do usually get paid by hour and not by child, but parents need to at least have the consideration of asking us whether we'd mind such an agreement. If your nanny is unhappy, chances are she a)won't do her job properly b)leave you (which would be very reasonable since you don't seem to have any respect for a nanny.)
And a lot of nannies have their own car as opposed to driving their bosses' car.
A bit harsh, Londonnanny79.
Quite and it's a regular arrangement, so not everyday. So up to 6 hours a month over a job 110 working hours, where I'm sure there are quiet half hours.
I'm not sure that the nanny could say no, so the "can you pick up x, 2/3 times a week" is a
courtesy rhetorical question.
If this were my nanny, i would definitely pose it as a question but would expect her to do it nevertheless as she is in loco parentis. The nanny/ employer relationship is unusual and needs to be flexible. That's what makes it successful. It all depends on personalities too, of course.
I am also in the camp of I wouldn't ask my nanny or au pair to do this on a regular basis unless THEY were benefitting from the reciprocal arrangement and the other mum or nanny dropped off on another day. Emergency periodic one off/s fine, but not routinely. I would also presage it with: Hope you don't mind but, etc.
Yes, I am flabbergasted at people thinking it's ok to not ask their nanny whether they mind having another charge (especially on a regular basis). Even if the nanny wouldn't really be able to say no, it's only polite and in fairness the nanny should be compensated for it. Also stuff like "a nanny gets paid by hour and not by child" sounds very disrespectful to me, just my humble opinion. Starts off with 6 hours a month until it gets out of hand. Something that happened to a nanny friend of mine a few months ago: she was hired to look after one little girl. Her bosses had friends over, couple + child staying over for 2 weeks and my friend was expected to have an extra charge (no "do you mind?") for 50 hours per week for their whole stay and afterwards got a 20 quid Topshop voucher. For 100 hours work. And people think it's ok.
I think nannies get paid per family, you generally pay more for a share, so 4 children from one family would be paid less than 2 children from 2 families.
For me it would depend on how easy the other child/my charge were. If the extra child added a lot more work I would want extra pay. If the extra child was easy and just needed to be dropped home I wouldn'would do it.
I would expect to be asked and I would expect to be able to say no.
With regard to playdates, I think it is part of a nanny's job to supervise them, but I also think it is up to the nanny to organise. The nanny should be able to choose (within reason) when the playdates take place/how often/which children are invited etc. I don't think the parents should organise for highly-strung Sally to come round from 12pm after pre-school until 7pm and just tell the nanny 'FYI Sally is coming for a playdate'.
londonnanny again that is something that I would expect my nanny to do but when they started I made it very clear that this was what the job would entail:
Eg there were weeks when she would have to drop DC's off at school at 8:15 and she would not see them again until 6pm, during this period there may have been a couple of errands I might ask her to run (purchase DD new ballet shoes, pick up basic groceries from shop, be at home when food delivery arrived - that sort of thing)
Equally there would be weeks where we had guests, DCs wouldn't be at school and it was flat out.
That nanny was payed a salary and it reflected the peaks and troughs of the weeks/months.
I think "nanny" is such a broad term and encompasses myriad employment relations that you cannot always compare.
I guess if I was a nanny employed on an hourly rate for 15 hours a week I would be annoyed with an extra charge for a significant proportion of those hours.
If I fell into the other end of the spectrum where I was a live in nanny with a great deal of responsibility and autonomy combined with a good salary then this is one of those things I would perceive as part of the job (in fact londonnanny your latter example more so) and frankly the reason why I would be able to command the sort of salary I would expect to be paid.
I think you are overreacting, londonnanny. I am not saying that a nanny employer is in the right to just lump on extra work without discussion/agreement. In the same way that any employer should discuss a change to the job description/duties with an employee before altering them. But, it happens all the time. In my job, I might be asked to work on more than one project, giving me more than one boss and conflicts in schedule and some extra admin work. I would not turn around and ask for a salary increase on the spot.
As a nanny employer, I would not make this arrangement without discussing it with my nanny because well... I am a nicer employer than that. But if I was in a pinch and needed her to do me a favour during her normal working hours on the odd occassion, I would expect her to do it. I do sometimes arrange playdates with x and tell her what I've done. I would probably not do this with a child I knew nanny did not like having.
But your use (and confimation) of the word flabergasted does seem a bit OTT.
A banker (who gets paid a looooot more than a nanny) wouldn't be expected to take someone else's account for the other person's benefit for no extra pay, a doctor (who also charge a lot more per hour) wouldn't be expected to regularly see someone else's patient and have no compensation, same way a lawyer (again much higher salary) wouldn't take in another case in those circumstances, a teacher (who has a lower salary than a nanny) who has a classroom of say 12 students wouldn't be expected to have 24 children (double her charges, right?) just because the headmaster thinks it's a good idea. I don't know why a nanny should look after another child (not referring to playdates here, just to make it clear
) and not be compensated for that and it has nothing to do with her salary.
And it's not cool to be told you need to look after another child, rather than being asked if you would mind (even if in reality a nanny doesn't really have an option). It's common courtesy. that's even worse than being taken advantage of (which is how most nannies would see either episode). If I'm hired to look after 3 children, looking after a 4th is not my obligation, no matter what parents might think and how great my wages are.
I was talking about WannagotoDallas' (or my friend's) situation, where the nanny is just informed of the extra charge, nothing here was "previously agreed" or "made clear to the nanny she'd might regularly have another charge". In neither case, was it an emergency, just "a favour" or an odd occasion.
Strix: As for my use (and confirmation) of the word flabbergasted (double b) I could have said astounded, appalled, astonished or anything that means I was "overcome with surprise and bewilderment". Not at the situation in itself, because as you say it happens all the time, but at people thinking it's ok. It's not ok. But then, I'm a nanny and I'd think so. As for the OTT comment, you can think whatever you like. You are entitled to your opinion and so am I.
I am just saying that I think it's AWFUL that nannies are taken for granted and asked to do things beyond their job descriptions without any prior discussion/agreement. And I am shocked that parents think it's alright just because nannies have nice wages.
As someone who has worked in both banking and other stressful office environments, I think if you tried to 'work to rule' as you infer, you'd be out of a job.
I have a nanny and she understands how flexible her role is (as is a SAHM's). We often have people to stay (DH is from overseas) and she does look after the visiting children if there are any. She's happy to, and I make it clear that they do give her some extra money to say thank you. As another poster, there are slow times and busy times.
But then, my nanny is reasonable and having checked with her about this thread, apparently I am too.
And your example of 12 pupils going to 24 is frankly absurd.
As I said, the problem is the change of job description (not something previously agreed), without the consent of the nanny (seriously, a simple "do you mind" isn't that hard to say!) and the lack of compensation afterwards and people thinking that arranging stuff that concerns the nanny work + lack of compensation is alright, that was all I was trying to say. And I was not talking about playdates, etc. I don't expect to get paid for the 2 or 3 playdates a week I do. It's a complete different matter.
Of course, going from 12 to 24 kids is absurd,she was hired to look after a classroom of 12 and not a classroom of 24. But I was clearly exaggerating to point something out. My father is a banker but that's not the point, I am not talking about doing someone a favour, or helping the company, etc etc. It doesn't matter. You guys don't seem to get what I'm trying to say.
Besides parents and nannies will always have different opinions on "that's part of the job" x "I'm being taken advantage of".
Do you really think that teachers get a raise when their class size increases?
As for the other examples, if you really need to compare yourself to doctors, lawyers, and bankers... well... I think you've perhaps lost touch with the world I (and many nanny employers) live in.
All of your alternative suggestions for flabbergasted (apologies for dropping the b), are in my opinion, similarly OTT.
"You guys don't seem to get what I'm trying to say. "
Actually, it's the comprehension we are struggling with. But, you are having trouble accepting that we don't agree with your point.
Oh... Daddy's a banker... now that might explain your expectations.
(sorry Banker's. Couldn't resist. I'm going to be in trouble when Squiffy gets here.)
Sorry, another typo. Meant to say:
Actually, it's not the comprehension we are struggling with. But, you are having trouble accepting that we don't agree with your point.
<passes Strix another gin, suspecting she's had enough already>
Oh no.... you should see my typing when I have!
Is it Friday yet?
I'm almost clutching my sides at the idea of working to rule.
As a lawyer I can tell you you are absolutely wrong: if someone is out of the office and I need to pick up their work load, I do. If we get a big case in and my hours increas by 50% for that period, I suck it up. If I need to work all weekend, well it goes with the job.
Lovely as my boss is if I demanded extra money he would laugh in my face, if I refused I'd soon be out on my arse.
Frankly, the reason I make enough to pay a nanny is because that is the reality of my job and a nanny who wasn't prepared to pull her weight in return for her generous salary would be given very short shrift
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