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Parents please beware - gumtree shocking news

(46 Posts)
hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 12:58:56

Parents please be very wary about looking for a nanny privately on sites such as gumtree etc. Its sadly quite easy to fake references, especially if parents are unsure of what to look for : here is the shocking article, the comments below the article from people are very true.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2237486/Red-Saunders-Chilling-words-paedophile-advertised-babysitter-Gumtree.html

seeker Tue 27-Nov-12 13:04:11

But hisnprevious offended would have shown up on a CRB check- why did parents accept "it's on it's way"?

Nothing to do with gumtree- nasty person, stupid employees.

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 27-Nov-12 13:18:47

This has got nothing to do with Gumtree.

If you employ someone to look after your children without checking their references or their CRB, you're an idiot.

MUM2BLESS Tue 27-Nov-12 13:20:25

What a shame and disgrace shock

makes it harder for people to use gumtree (not to blame) and for genuine childminders.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 13:27:57

We can't jump to conclusions on the little information we get from the news article and presume the parents were stupid. He could have easily said that his CRB was being processed or awaiting from an agency and given a false number/name of agency that was really him? he did give references and they were all false, again this is sadly easy to do. Gumtree has to be blamed partly as it is unregulated and no prior checks are done on any nanny on there. So parent who are in-experienced with hiring , may miss something. Bad people like this can be very cunning , clever and charismatic and easily fool parents who are not used to recruiting. If he gave numbers for everything and the right answers, some parents would be fooled.
It has something to do with Gumtree as in experienced Agency recruiters would have found him out no doubt and secondly he wouldn't have gone with an Agency for this reason. So un-regulated sites like Gumtree allow these horrible people gaps in the net to slip through and they take advantage of parents naivety/in-experience to hiring nannies.

MmeLinDude Tue 27-Nov-12 13:32:42

Nice.

The parents are already suffering from having allowed this 'man' into the lives of their daughters.

Do we really have to call them stupid?

They were naive, perhaps and too trusting. And I'm sure they blame themselves already.

The person to blame is the bastard who committed the crime. Not the parents.

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 27-Nov-12 13:36:09

'He could have easily said that his CRB was being processed '

Well then you don't employ him until it comes through. Simple.

'he did give references and they were all false, again this is sadly easy to do'

Check references. Simple.

'Gumtree has to be blamed partly as it is unregulated and no prior checks are done on any nanny on there'

Gumtree is quite clear that they don't check references or anything like that. It is for use by people that want to check CRB's and references themselves and not pay an egency to do it. If you don't want to/can't check yourself don't use Gumtree, but you can't blame them if you take on the task yourself and then can't/don't do it properly.

Your child, your responsibility.

givemeaclue Tue 27-Nov-12 13:40:51

Yes he was devious etc. However, recruiting a random person off gum tree without taking up references and without crb check is not advised. He is a horror but sadly the children were put at risk through poor decisions made by their parents.

Gum tree are not to blame but it is probably best to recruit nannies through more appropriate route eg nanny resourcing specialists.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 13:47:43

very harsh response .

we don't know what he said to get himself that job, I'm sure the parents felt they did everything they needed to do , to enable them to offer him the position.
They did check his references and he had friends or himself providing fake references, he could easily have done the same with pretending to be an agency who is holding his CRB.
Some people are just a bit too trusting, doesn't mean they are stupid. Recruiting a nanny to look after your children isn't as easy as it sounds. There are alot of loop holes that you can do if you are not the person who you are trying to say you are. You can not blame people for being succumbed by these nasty, often clever people.
Yes, most people know not to employ someone unless you have seen their CRB, but who knows what story he spun?
Its just scary and shows we have to be more careful when recruiting people to look after our children.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 13:48:41

sorry meant to say harsh response from OutragedfromLeeds

plutocrap Tue 27-Nov-12 13:53:21

The Daily Mail can't talk : how long is their sidebar of shame, and how creepy and leering-at-young-flesh is it?!

nannynick Tue 27-Nov-12 13:56:55

If the DM had carried the advert would they be blamed?
Can publishers really be blamed, they provide a service to display adverts. As long as the advert is legal, the publisher can't be blamed - can they?

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 27-Nov-12 13:59:01

'You can not blame people for being succumbed by these nasty, often clever people.'

Maybe not, but you definitely can't blame Gumtree.

'Its just scary and shows we have to be more careful when recruiting people to look after our children'

True. Again not the fault of Gumtree.

'harsh response from OutragedfromLeeds '

Harsh response to the idea that this is in any way Gumtree's fault. My sympathies are with these children and their parents. Blaming Gumtree is ridiculous and deserves a harsh response.

higgle Tue 27-Nov-12 14:05:47

I recruit staff to work with vulnerable older people. If you are employing someone for a role with children or vulnerable adults it is absoloutely essential you have a full life time career history with no gaps that cannot be accounted for and verified. you should ask for references and contact all employers directly over the previous 10 years. You should also have an enhanced CRB check prepared before the person starts work. Gumtree is just an advertising vehicle, you might not do any better with The Times.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 14:15:31

outraged with Leeds, were your sympathies with the parents when you called them 'stupid'
I'm not blaming gumtree fully for the horrible situation, I'm saying where gumtree on any other private adverts are to blame, is aslong as there are un-regulated websites allowing parents to find nannies for there children privately, then nasty people with bad intentions will always find loop holes to be able to do such horrible acts and this unfortunately may not be the last case. There will be parents who are in-experienced and not sure what to look for or who will be cleverly bluffed by such people whilst this way of recruiting is available. Gumtree is great for selling your tv, settee etc, but maybe not the place to find childcare?? although not everyone can afford Agencies , so I understand there is a use for such sites. It's just how to keep them safe?. Also CRB's aren't going alway's prevent this as it could be the person's first offense.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 14:18:01

apologies OutragedwithLeeds, you weren't the poster that called them stupid, it was idiots you called them

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 27-Nov-12 14:24:08

'outraged with Leeds, were your sympathies with the parents when you called them 'stupid'

Firstly, I said if you employ someone to look after your children without checking their references or their CRB, you're an idiot. I don't know that's what they did. If they did that they made a stupid mistake and yes I have sympathy for people who make stupid mistakes.

'where gumtree on any other private adverts are to blame'

They are not to blame. We have to assume responsibility for ourselves.

'Also CRB's aren't going alway's prevent this as it could be the person's first offense. '

So a nanny from an agency could also be a paedophile then? So your argument about Gumtree/private ads is nonsense?

expatinscotland Tue 27-Nov-12 14:26:46

This isn't Gumtree's fault.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Tue 27-Nov-12 14:31:30

The man posed as his brother and used his brothers details to gain crb and what every registration he needed.

Not gumtrees fault
Not the parents fault
Not the brothers fault

This is the mans fault for doing what he did and possibly could look at how someone living in our communities with pasts like this are not listened and have their movements restricted indefinitely.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 14:42:04

I'm not blaming gumtree, if you read over my posts you will read where I'm saying how gumtree because it is an un-regulated site someone had slipped through the net, it's not gumtree's fault and you are right they are most certainly not to blame for what happened, but it is why it was possible and did give this guy an opportunity to prey on naive families. I don't believe he would have been accepted by any reputable nanny agency due to experienced recruiters spotting the fake references or like I said , he would not have gone through an agency. Sadly anybody could be a paedophile. You just have to be as careful as you can when recruiting a nanny for your children . In my opinion nanny's who choose agency's to represent them are the least unlikely to be anything other than they say they are and if they do , I believe they will be found out? but that's just my opinion.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 14:43:38

ahhh, that answers the question of how he got a CRB. thanks for clearing that up.

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 14:44:27

you're right TET

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 14:45:06

it's scary how they can live openly in our communities

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 27-Nov-12 14:50:27

'In my opinion nanny's who choose agency's to represent them are the least unlikely to be anything other than they say they are and if they do , I believe they will be found out? but that's just my opinion. '

You should watch the episode(s) of panaorama where they did secret filming in nanny agencies.

I would argue it is best to recruit privately because then you know that they have been checked (because you've done it yourself), you have seen their CRB yourself and you're not relying on someone else to check for. There are good agencies certainly. There are also agencies who don't bother to check/don't bother to check properly. How do parents know which is which?

MmeLinDude Tue 27-Nov-12 15:01:10

Reliance on CRB checks is arguably even more stupid than hiring a nanny via gumtree, if we are portioning blame.

I don't think we should blame anyone other than that sick individual.

CindySherman Tue 27-Nov-12 15:04:52

That report is sickening sad poor family

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 15:04:59

choose an agency that follows strict codes of practice and are members of organizations such as ANA. These agencies make sure that their clients get to see all the nannies documents that they are seeing too, and it's these agencies that top nannies choose to represent them when looking for a job.

You're right there are poor agencies out there too, but excellent ones are out there and really do look after the client and nanny.

Be careful is the message I was just trying to originally say.

higgle Tue 27-Nov-12 15:32:16

All employers are also required to check thoroughly as to identity as you need to be satisfied the person you take on is entitled to work here. he should have had a P45 from previous employer and to get the CRB check you need to see at least 3 types of identification. If you are thorough you will not get someone who is pretending to be their brother. Good points about first offences, that is why you need to be so very careful. CRB would not have stopped many of the perpetrators of horrible offences - I'm sure Jimmy Saville would have come up clear.

nannynick Tue 27-Nov-12 16:00:53

Anyone can run an agency, they are not regulated and don't have to follow ANA or REC codes of conduct.

Maybe it would be better if all childcare workers were registered in some way, but that would cost and ultimately parents would pay, yet some parents want low cost childcare.

How would you propose parents find nannies, babysitters, aupairs? Are agencies really that good (see thread about sitters).

annh Tue 27-Nov-12 16:07:28

Hinnigan01 you run a nanny agency so are hardly a disinterested party in this are you?

nannynick Tue 27-Nov-12 16:07:53

hinnigan01 - I wonder if you run a nanny agency. Maybe you should declare your interest when posting things like this.

joanbyers Tue 27-Nov-12 16:12:44

There is already a thread on this.

Daily Mail recycling old news:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a1594726-Paedophile-babysitter-filmed-child-abuse

TheEnthusiasticTroll Tue 27-Nov-12 16:15:53

Why should jining an declaring her interests, maybe she's just speaking from experience, can't see her plugging her buisness

annh Tue 27-Nov-12 16:16:20

Nannynick s/he does run an agency which doesn't preclude him/her from posting on this topic of course but it's a bit disingenuous to start a thread blaming Gumtree (and by extension free advertising) and set up agencies as the best solution for childcare when many people on here have had different experiences.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Tue 27-Nov-12 16:16:51

Dam quo to correct hinnigan not jining

nannynick Tue 27-Nov-12 16:27:49

They could have said something like: As a nanny agency owner and former nanny I feel agencies offer...

Them owning an agency may make no difference to their view but it may be why they started the discussion.

Are agencies any better - any horror stories of nannies from agencies?

hinnigan01 Tue 27-Nov-12 16:46:25

thank you theEnthusiastic Troll, you're right why should I declare my interests? I am only speaking from experience and wanted to let parents know the dangers out there, I most certainly wasn't plugging my business and only talked about agency's when asked directly a question regarding them.
But I should have known from past experiences if anyone can knock an agency down its NannyNick. The thread has now been turned from a concerned poster worried about the dangers out there and trying to warn parents to keep safe to a lets slate agencies thread, Nanny Nick believe it or not I do have a heart and that is why I started the post. The sooner excellent agencies with great reputations and ones that do belong to ANA and REC are recognised for doing good in the childcare recruitment world the better. So we can work together to try our best in stopping these horrible acts happening. I wasn't intending to making it an agency v gumtree thread, just a much needed warning. Anyway as NannyNick is now sharing his very strong opinions...I'm what Duncan Bannatyne would say ... I'm out!!

OutragedFromLeeds Tue 27-Nov-12 19:18:32

'I am only speaking from experience and wanted to let parents know the dangers out there'

You're not speaking from experience, you're speaking from a Daily Mail article. Unless one of the families in that article is yours?

'I wasn't intending to making it an agency v gumtree thread'

You might want to re-read your op. You know the bit where you said 'Parents please be very wary about looking for a nanny privately' or the title where you name Gumtree.

'you're right why should I declare my interests?'

Because it would be honest to.

This was nothing to do with Gumtree or private advertising. Trying to make it about that is ridiculous. I think your motive in posting this is clear. I expect agencies are losing a lot of business to Gumtree, what with it being a good place to find a nanny for about £20 rather than the hundreds that agencies charge. I think you're scaremongering and I think it's in very bad taste.

fraktion Tue 27-Nov-12 19:51:25

Agencies are not infallible. I think this man could probably have duped them too it be may have been put off by the level of checking. All that means is that parents need to do the checks agencies do and demand to see ID.

Registration is not infallible either but at least if it's conpulsory And someone is caught they can be struck off.

DaniC36 Fri 30-Nov-12 09:58:12

I agree that the only person to blame is the person who committed the crime. I just think that parents when hiring a Nanny need to be careful to fully check and vet the person they are thinking of leaving their children with. Its a reason why I would use a Nanny Agency especially one that is registered with ANA (Association of Nanny Agencies) as they take on the responsibility to check all applicants documents and verify references.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Fri 30-Nov-12 11:59:04

If this is a backdoor way of steering people towards very expensive agencies as the only way to recruit safely, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of ads BY AGENCIES on GUMTREE encouraging them to get in touch.

It is no gaurantee that going through one is going to mean you're safer. They may do no better a job than you would checking refs etc. And at least if you're doing it yourself you know whether they are relying on only mobile nos and yahoo email addresses, which is a major way people fake references.

I'd do it myself every time.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Fri 30-Nov-12 12:03:59

Sorry - not I'd fake references !!! But I'd recruit myself every time. grin

My ex nanny got her current FT job through an agency. Questions to me were no more detailed than I'd ask - even less so in parts - and also they were like: would you MIND if osmeone hiring her wanted to speak to you? I said to them: If they DIDN'T want to speak to me directly, I'd find it strange. They thought this was funny. Big name agency too.

BUt I guess that's how they ensure their 'value add'.

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 30-Nov-12 13:16:01

Gumtree aren't to blame hmm

It's the man fault for being a pervert and also to a certain extend the parents If they didn't double check info

Even going through an agency you need to double check refs etc yourself

This man gave fake ref/id (his brothers) assuming they looked similar - maybe always ask for a passport or driving license

Gets harder with refs for ladies as my older ones are in my maiden name as is my nneb certificate and newer ones in my married name - guess a wedding certificate takes care of that

Strix Fri 30-Nov-12 13:25:47

As a parent, I wouldn't trust Gumtree or any agency to do all the checking. Gumtree is simply a place to put an ad. They provide a mechanism for that communication. They are not in control of and do not own the content (within reason).

As a parent you can outsourse the tast but not the responsibility for your children.

sunshinenanny Fri 30-Nov-12 23:47:50

Not Gumtree's fault! Parents should have checked more carefully. I would always advise anyone looking for childcare to check everything out and ask to see original certificates.

nannykatherine Sun 23-Dec-12 18:56:17

Stop reading the daily fail .....

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