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Part time nanny and holiday pay

(24 Posts)
YompingJo Tue 30-Apr-13 16:13:11

Just working out holiday pay entitlements. I think I'm right that if my nanny normally works an average of 2.5 days a week (the days change weekly according to DH's shifts), then she is entitled to 14 days of holiday a year including bank holidays. In a sample contract I have downloaded, I found this statement:

"One day's accrued holiday pay is equivalent to 1/260th of the Nanny's salary. "

I'm being a bit dim probably, but can someone explain where this 1/260th comes from? Is it because 52 (weeks) x 5 (working days a week) = 260, in which case my nanny's holiday pay will be equivalent to 52 x 2.5 eg 1/130th of her salary?

Thanks,

Babybrained dimwit!

drinkyourmilk Tue 30-Apr-13 19:34:49

Holiday pay is the same rate as normal pay isn't it?

K8Middleton Tue 30-Apr-13 19:56:00

Statutory holiday is 5.6 weeks. Her weeks are short but still weeks. If you want to work out the days then 2.5 x 5.6 = 14.

Really no need to make it so complicated. You will need to be clear about bank holidays. They are included in the 5.6 weeks unless you agree otherwise in her contract. So if she just has statutory holiday and she wants to take off the bank holiday and just work 1.5 days that week you need to take it off her holiday entitlement for the year.

K8Middleton Tue 30-Apr-13 19:58:00

I'm sure you know, but just in case, you have to give her holiday from work and pay it at her usual rate. You cannot roll it up and add it to her salary. The only time you can pay in lieu of holiday is at termination of employment or in some circumstances related to sick or maternity leave.

nannynick Tue 30-Apr-13 20:56:23

I don't think you nees to be concerned about 1/260th or for that matter 1/365th. I think those are to do with "a days pay" calculation.

You are talking about calculating annual leave, which I think is in Employment Rights Act 1996. There is also Working Time Regulations 1998. But lets stop there because all you need to do is the simple 5.6 weeks (statutory holiday entitlement) x working days, so you are correct in saying 14 days.

As they are working part of a day, you may want to calculate in hours, rather than days. Do the hours vary a lot though? Is half a day always .5 of what hours they work on a full day?

YompingJo Fri 03-May-13 09:53:38

Ok, that's all helpful, thank you. Can I ask a related question?

I'm a teacher, so can't just take days off during ten time, unless it's an emergency. DH works shifts, for ease of explaining let's say 5 days on, 5 days off. When she works our many will work a full day (7:30 to 5:30), there won't be half days. Due to dh's funny shift pattern and my 4 day working week (with some flexibility over which day I have off), our nanny's working days will vary each week. For example, she might do Tues and Weds one week, Monday the next, Weds, Thus, Fri the next, Tues and Thurs the next, etc. All agreed in advance but not following a particular pattern. Her taking holiday will be a major issue for us as the whole point of having her there is that neither myself not DH can be at home on those particular days.

I think what K8middleton is saying is exactly what I was hoping not to hear (damn!) - I was wondering if together the nanny and I could simply choose 14 days in the year when my school holidays or DH's shifts would mean that we didn't need her, set them as working days then designate them as holiday? (She is perfectly happy to do this). Because otherwise DH would have to take days off when she wants holiday (as it's not possible for me to do so) and he loses a large chunk of his holiday through doing this. Is that just the way it goes? I'm probably being naive and if I'm going beyond naive into downright entitled then it's purely due to ignorance of how it all works, I'm happy to be set straight!

YompingJo Fri 03-May-13 09:55:17

We have agreed that the bank holidays are included in her holiday, but I will be off on those days anyway so wouldn't have need her to work. I'm getting myself very confused now!

eeyore12 Fri 03-May-13 12:11:44

If you are paying her for 52 weeks a year and want to say no holiday to be taken in term time that's fine, you and she then decide on when in the hols she can have that time off, yes it is more complicated as you need varies days per week but prob best to work out an average say 2 or 3 days a week and then give the remainder after bh off so she may end up with say 5 or 6 weeks when she is on holiday, you can spread this between school hols so not all in the summer say.

If you are employing her term time only then you need to pay her for those weeks plus 14 days (holiday) in the contract you put you will be employing her for (however many weeks in the term + the 5 or 6 weeks hol)

It is complicated as you need flexible days per week but if you work out the average number of days over a month and then a week it will help with the holiday situation.

nannynick Fri 03-May-13 13:00:22

When a bank holiday falls on a monday, would you want them to work Tue-Fri, for example first week in May which is usually term time?

nannynick Fri 03-May-13 13:11:50

How does you nanny know how much they will earn? Have you talked to payroll company with regard to how much advance notice of the hours worked in the month they need?

K8Middleton Fri 03-May-13 14:02:35

No that's not what I'm saying. You can agree the 14 days as holiday. What you can't do is pay her instead of giving her holiday. So you can't give her holiday on Monday but have her working a normal day on Tues and over time Thursday and Friday. Because then she doesn't actually get holiday if that makes sense? You may find it easier to book out weeks instead of days to ensure you don't end up with her missing holiday? I used to do that with fluctuating hours and part timers [nb I have deliberately simplified this. You can do some of these things but with caveats and faffing about which is probably best avoided here].

You can do a bit of planning for her holidays - presumably you are off at regular intervals being a teacher which is helpful. You can ask nanny to take her holidays then if it helps? If she's happy with some other arrangement that's fine so long as she gets to take some time off. It's a health and safety thing from the Working Time Regulations but don't stress it - just make sure you're both happy and she gets all her holiday.

You may need to book her holiday in advance and sometimes it will not be convenient and your dh may need to take time off. You can write it into the contract when holiday may be taken (ie school hols) if you both agree but there may be occasions where nanny needs the odd day off so best to have a plan for that (min notice etc).

You might find it helpful to do a holiday record sheet. Do columns with the following:

Date of request
Dates of holiday requested
Total days requested
Approved/Declined
Reason for decline [this may never be used but helpful to have just in case]
Holiday balance (days)

So a filled in table might look a bit like this (sorry it's wonky):

02 nov 12|1 Jan - 5 Jan|2.5|A| not applicable|11.5|
03 feb 13|29 Apr-10May|5.0|A| not applicable|6.5|
12 may 13|17 may|1.0|D|insufficient notice|6.5|

So in the middle row that has a bank holiday this has been taken as holiday. But, it doesn't have to be. If you and nanny decide she will still work her 2.5 days that week then you don't take it off your nanny's holiday entitlement. Forget it's a bank holiday and think of it as mandatory holiday. You can add the bank holiday dates to your sheet at the beginning of the year so you can keep track.

It's fine to vary her working pattern so long as it all works out at the end of the month or so and for simplicity's sake, don't have holiday and overtime (to be taken in lieu another week) in the same week.

YompingJo Sat 04-May-13 22:03:35

Argh, even more confused now! Nannynick, what you said about when a by falls on a Monday, would we want her to work the rest of the week... it depends on dh's shifts that week. If he's working the Wed-Sun shift then we'd want her in on Tues, Wed and Fri (I'd have the Thurs as my day off). If he's working the Mon-Thurs shift (he has to work if the bh falls during his shifts) then we'd want her in Weds and Thurs (I'd have Tues off). If he's working the Fri - Tues shift then I'd have the Tues off and we wouldn't need the nanny that week at all, because I'd be home on the bank holiday Monday. It's complicated! We'd like her to do one day a week during school holidays where possible, both for continuity for my daughter and also to boost her hours since she'd like more where possible. Thanks for the tip about taking to the payroll company, I'll do that.

YompingJo Sat 04-May-13 22:21:16

K8Middleton, thanks for the holiday sheet, that's a good idea. So would it be OK for me and her to agree, say, that she could take the 8th June (to pick a nominal date) as a holiday day, even if that was never going to be a day that I would have asked her to work because it falls during a set of off-days for DH, so he would be home doing the childcare? It doesn't seem right, surely her holidays have to be on days where we would otherwise need her to work, otherwise she wouldn't have been working anyway so wouldn't have to take the day as holiday.

MrAnchovy Sat 04-May-13 23:14:32

For irregular work patterns by far the easiest way is to calculate holiday as 12.07% (or more) of hours or days worked. You can then nominate any day (it doesn't have to be a normal working day) as a paid holiday and she doesn't have to work it, but still gets paid, reducing the balance of hours or days accrued. If you use a payroll agent they will explain and work all this out for you, as well as give you a contract that is probably a lot more robust than any you can download off the internet.

K8Middleton Sat 04-May-13 23:25:41

You might find it easier to get her to book the bulk of her holidays as weeks off? Then you know she doesn't work at all that week and you pay her for her weekly contracted hours ie 2.5 days.

I think if you gave her a list of weeks to choose from, for her holiday, and she picks 5 that only gives you 0.6 weeks to worry about which is 1.5 days. Then just make sure any week she has holiday in she's not working overtime (ie if she has a half day holiday she only works 2 days that week). Don't treat bank holidays as anything special. That would be a simple way of doing it (but not the only way) because it makes sure she gets her holiday, you get some control and she gets some choice. You should make sure she's happy and put the process in the contract as an addendum.

Do speak to your payroll company. I found NannyTax very helpful

YompingJo Tue 07-May-13 08:19:27

Thank you all, that's really helpful. I really appreciate the hand holding and explanations!

I am sure I will return with more questions!

YompingJo Tue 07-May-13 10:50:55

MrAnchovy, can I ask where 12.07% comes from?

minderjinx Tue 07-May-13 13:30:00

Don't forget she will be entitled to holiday on her paid holiday days too. You would be adding working days to her annual total in order to be able to give them as paid leave, so she would then be due more leave. So if you add say a month to her working year she will be entitled to another 2 and a half days leave.

nannynick Tue 07-May-13 22:48:12

The 12.07 per cent figure is 5.6 weeks' holiday, divided by 46.4 weeks (being 52 weeks - 5.6 weeks) multiplied by 100 = 12.07 per cent.

onepopperwrong Sun 22-Sep-13 21:53:00

Evening All,

I'm just getting into looking for a Nanny to start next month but i am clueless about pay, tax, national insurance and holidays.

I'm looking for a Nanny 2 days a week from 7.30am - 6.30pm. £10p/h seems to be the going rate around Woodford Green so......

How much do I actually pay and how do you pay the tax etc?

Sorry to start from such a base level but the internet is so confusing and I knew that the Mumsnetwork could solve my issues!

nannynick Sun 22-Sep-13 22:09:25

Onepopperwrong - probably easiest if you use a nanny payroll company, they will set you up as an employer with HMRC, produce payslips, tell you how much and when to pay HMRC, and can advise you on creating a contract, holiday entitlement. Example: www.payefornannies.co.uk

The alternative is to use HMRC Online PAYE tools, as everything now is done electronically. You then have to produce the payslips yourself. This is possible if you understand how payroll works and do not need a lot of hand holding through the process of employing someone. HMRC: PAYE RTI

When agreeing a salary, I suggest agreeing an annual salary where possible, so you and nanny both realise that the salary is all year round, not on a per-hour worked basis. When agreeing a salary, be it as annual, or hourly, make sure you agree it as Gross (before tax deductions) not NET (after tax deductions).

nannynick Sun 22-Sep-13 22:13:25

For a 2 day per week nanny, their minimum holiday entitlement would be:

2 x 5.6 days = 11.2 days
or
7.30-6.30 = 11 hours. x2 = 22 hours x5.6 = 123.2 hours

You can not round down, you can give exact or round up. You can offer more than minimum amount.

Consider which days holiday you would dictate and how much flexibility you can give nanny to choose their own. For example, if any bank holidays fall on a working day, would you insist they took the day off? What about over xmas, would you want them working between xmas and new year? It can help to plan things out a year in advance, so knowing at the start when some of the holiday will have to be taken.

onepopperwrong Sun 22-Sep-13 23:09:34

Wow, yes lots to think about! Thanks nannynick that's a good web link. If you know any Nannies around the Woodford Green area then please let them know about me, if they know someone as helpful as you I would like to meet them!

FrequentFlyerRandomDent Tue 24-Sep-13 20:43:09

OP - just a thought on the requirements to take holiday during school holidays: it may be worth spelling out it is a requirement to take leave during your school holiday.

I find that school holiday dates can vary wildly from school to school.

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