Mumsnet Talk

So the issue isn't the lack of a seat but the fact that little Tarquin throws a strop if he's put in it, so mum and dad don't put him in? He's going to be fun to teach come Reception isn't he? Poor kid!

If this is an issue with lack of parental boundaries and "tough, I say you need to be belted in so get over it", I don't think you're going to win this one. You'll just keep coming up against issues where his parents aren't willing to put their foot down, as you're finding with last minute breakfasts.

What sort of notice do you have to give with this family, because i'm sorry but I think the car seat is the thin end of the wedge.....

Email them the links that you have been sent here and explain you will not be driving him anywhere without a functioning car seat.

Do not buy one yourself - they are obliged to provide one.

Completing friggin insane.

Tell them that, as driver, you are legally responsible for his safety in your car including the use of an age appropriate car seat and as a professional will not /cannot afford to take that risk. Do they take other unnecessary risks and expect you to follow?

how totally stupid - who is in charge here the adult or the child??

i know some boss's give in for an easy life but this is insane

op, you say they are great employers, well i dont think they are, they are bloody stupid and irresponsible to even consider taking their child out without car seats

you have 3 choices

1) never go out in car
2) buy a car seat
3) leave job and find responsible parents

either way i would report them next time they go out without using a car seat

You see I thought if you put in clear boundaries you could get him in the seat. But you say you have told him mum and dad will go to jail if he doesn't use it. What a bad move. How scary for a 4 year old and you've no chance of changing behaviour with empty threats like that.

Find another child to mind with sensible parents.

print out the legal requirements and give it to them. and refuse to take the child in your car or allow them to, without a seat, as you will not be party to law breaking.

When DD, on a couple of occasions, unclipped her seatbelt, I stopped the car, pulled over, and refused to drive on until she left it alone.

Another friend refused to take her neice on a day out because she kept unclipping her seatbelt. It was harsh, but the child never did it again.

Are they going to let him have his own way through his entire life?

I would buy/or make them buy a highback booster (under £30) and he would keep the seatbelt on. I do not negotiate with children about things like this (nor eating breakfast on time). If he takes it off, you just pull over and don't move until it's back on again. Breakfast, if he doesn't eat it when you tell him, he goes without - it wont kill him and he will learn. It does not matter what the parents do when they are there - you are in charge.

(Obviously it matters about them not using the car seat, I mean that in general when you are there it's YOUR rules)

Chipping - totally understand what your saying but 25% of the time dad is around in the morning so he gets his own way with him which then in turn mucks up going to school etc
I've gone and brought a booster seat now as felt at least that is safer than none. Next step is seatbelt.

If he is a small 4 year old, is he heavy enough to be in a booster? they generally have a min weight of 15kg. My 3.8 is 13kg.

Agree with those saying he needs a car seat tho. What was the baby in? A stage 2? Put 4 yr old in that - assuming he is under 18kg, which is usually the max weight for them.

Ive read some of the thread, but REALLY??

HE'S 4yrs OLD for GOODNESS SAKE!!
UNBELIEVABLE that anyone would let a 4yr dictate ANYTHING..

Could you try freecycle and/or ask around if anyone has one that has been grown out of.

I agree its unbelievable, baby i weights 22lb and is just over a year and in a 1-2-3 seat, which he slouches in, leans forward etc etc

I'm looking for one but none seem to be around. I've decided that I'm guna get one with a 5point harness so he can't get it undone!

agree a booster seat is just as dangerous as no seat if little - needs to be a back booster

If you aregoing to go out buying a seat why not put him in the 1-2-3 seat and get something more appropriate for the baby (eg britax first class which is not that expensive)

As a parent who has a nanny we have supplied a group 1 seat for exclusive use for our nanny to take 3 yr old out (I fitted it in her car and it is never removed so I know it is correctly fitted) and the baby is still in a babycarrier

The carseats are an expense I can't afford at the moment. Hence why I'm reluctant to buy them - when they should be supplied

The carseats are an expense I can't afford at the moment. Hence why I'm reluctant to buy them - when they should be supplied

I agree they should be supplied but your ignorant bosses think otherwise

Tbh I'm not sure I could work for a family that think so little of their child's safety

Yes you're absolutely right they should be supplied.

However I think you have two choices here. Buy your own car seat, or refuse to drive in the car. It's your responsibility as the driver, legally, to ensure that children are in the correct restraints.

If the baby is 22lbs then it is legal for them to travel in a group 1 seat (although it doesn't sound in any way ready for one!) but if the older one is the size of a 3 year old then they NEED to be in a high backed booster, possibly even a 5-point harness seat, depending on weight (15kg is the minimum weight for a high backed booster - they CANNOT legally be used when the child is below this weight)

It comes down to - are you willing to risk your job for the sake of a £25 car seat? This would do. Or even this although I'd go for the Graco personally, because I don't trust this brand. (But you could use this one rear facing for the baby and then the 123 for the 4yo so might be better)

Which one can be rear facing for baby

The second link - the Nania teamtex. I'm not convinced on the safety of those seats but it would presumably be better than a forward facing seat if the baby is tiny.

Sorry - to clarify. The two links in my post, a Graco high backed booster and a Nania Teamtex seat - the Graco could be used for the older DC (assuming she weighs over 15kg) and the baby could remain legally in the group 1 seat she is in now. I believe this Graco seat is a good car seat, although it is cheap, it is sturdy and the belt guides are good.

The Nania Teamtex is a group 0/1/2 seat - the concept of this alone makes me a bit and also the knowledge that Nania are the ultimate budget seat producers and appear to cut corners wherever they can. However, it's a seat which will enable the baby to be rear facing until... ah, in fact, I've just looked it up and the rear facing limit on this is only 10 kilos, which is roughly 22lbs, so no good for the baby.

OK so if you were wanting to get a seat for the baby and put the 4yo in the baby's current seat, then you're looking at an infant carrier kind of seat, and it looks like the cheapest ones are pretty shallow - which means baby is likely to outgrow in height/length well before you're happy for the 4yo to go without a car seat. This mothercare one is probably the cheapest you'll find an adequately big one. (On offer ATM until 13 Feb)

I don't see what the problem is. Simply state that it is against the law for him to travel in a car without a car seat and that you refuse to take him out without one. No one can insist you break the law because they don't agree with it!

OK, I think you move the 4 yr old into the 1-2-3 seat.
Then you need to sort out the baby's travel. He's 10kg. Does he have an old 0+ infant carrier about? He should be good in that for several months (0+ is 13kg max weight), while you work on the parents to get the seating issues resolved (or you find another job, and hand in your notice).

Don't cave on this one, its not a difference of opinion, its a legal requirement.

The seat belt thing, Im sure I saw on a thread either here or on another forum that theres a company, sorry cant remember their name, who make a gadget that you fit over the clunk click bit, so child cant un do it, would that help?