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What to pay part-time Au Pair who doesn't live in?

(37 Posts)
lljkk Tue 08-Jan-13 07:37:34

Trying to avoid after school club which DC strongly dislike.

I need a sensible and reliable adult or nearly adult to chivvy 3 DC (primary school age) to school (1-1.25 hours in morning) and for 2.5-3.25 hours after school (mostly 2.5 hours but sometimes DH gets held up getting home).

After school I hoped the Au pair might also:

* unload or load the dishwasher,
* make packed lunches,
* help DC get after school snacks
* peel and chop veg for our tea

No need to drive or ferry them to any activities, do need to be willing to play a few child games, deal with vomit or mess should it arise (usually doesn't). Mostly just need to hold the fort.

May only 2 days/week, though, it just depends what work I can get for myself! and NOT a live-in position. Would be ideal if they they had the flexibility to work 10 hour days in the school holidays, else it would be a term-time only Au Pair position (I'd use KidClub in hols).

£30/day, and £70/day in holidays? Is that too low? I live far from London or Home Counties. Would anyone want a job like that?

MrAnchovy Thu 10-Jan-13 09:41:17

"FrameyMcFrame - My nanny is self employed so she pays her own NI and tax."

From the circumstances you describe it is likely that this is true self employment - the key factor being that the nanny is free to take on other children at the same time as looking after yours: you are buying a service from her, not paying her to work for you.

MrAnchovy Thu 10-Jan-13 09:48:24

"PostBellumBugsy - I have a mothers help / nanny two afternoons a week and I pay her £8 per hour. She is self employed as she has 2 other jobs, so thankfully I don't have to worry about tax & NI."

From the circumstances you describe it is likely that this is NOT self employment. The other jobs are irrelevant, in the work she does for you she is paid to do what you want her to do, when and where you want her to do it. There is no risk for her in this work, and she cannot increase her earnings by taking on additional work at the same time. Regardless of what the contract says, in reality she is paid to do only what you require to be done during the time she works for you and this is the essence of employment.

PostBellumBugsy Thu 10-Jan-13 09:52:46

MrA, I forgot to add that she sometimes looks after other children when she looks after mine, so she can increase her earnings by taking on additional work. She also specifies where she will look after the children, sometimes my house, sometimes the other families, sometimes her own house.

MrAnchovy Thu 10-Jan-13 09:59:07

Where there is any doubt over employment status, you expose yourself to many risks (backdated PAYE plus a penalty, claims for compensation for redundancy, backdated holiday pay, illness or injury suffered at work, maternity leave etc.)

You can protect yourself against the PAYE risk by contacting HMRC's Employment Status Team, giving them ALL the facts and if they rule that the position is self employment asking for confirmation in writing. This will not protect you from claims from the employee related to employment status, but in practice HMRC's criteria are at least as strict as those that a court will apply so if, given all the facts, HMRC say it is self employment it is unlikely that a court will come to the opposite conclusion.

MrAnchovy Thu 10-Jan-13 10:04:41

Ah PostBellumBugsy that probably makes all the difference. I cannot stress enough that it is the WHOLE picture that determines employment status and anyone believing that a simple factor like the form of a contract or self employment in other work is decisive is burying their head in the sand.

MrAnchovy Thu 10-Jan-13 10:11:59

She also specifies where she will look after the children, sometimes my house, sometimes the other families, sometimes her own house.

Of course that raises its own issues - for instance what happens if another family's child suffered an injury in your house due to, for example, faulty electrics, or a badly fitted stair carpet?

PostBellumBugsy Thu 10-Jan-13 10:26:46

Mr A - you are right, I'm probably not fully covered. Thankfully my house is a new build and in tip top nick as I'm trying to sell it, so hopefully the risk is small - but you are right there is still a risk.

SamSmalaidh Thu 10-Jan-13 11:19:11

Sorry lljkk, I didn't mean you wouldn't be an employer, I just meant it was more of a babysitting role than a nanny role imo, and so the wage would reflect that. You will have to deduct the babysitter's tax and NI if you are paying over £100ish a week though I'm afraid!

You might have employers liability insurance through your household insurance?

MrAnchovy Thu 10-Jan-13 13:52:42

"I'm surprised nobody has insisted I should pay for employers' liability insurance, too."

Yes if he or she is an employee you will need employers liability insurance. And to give paid holidays. And maternity leave. And everything else an employer must do. What do you expect of your employer?

lljkk Thu 10-Jan-13 16:20:56

hahaha, From my employer I expect I will have to work about 25% more hours than the stated hours if I want to keep the job at all. That I will be overlooked for promotion because I occasionally need a day off at short notice (unpaid or out of my holiday entitlement) to look after ill children. Actually, I don't expect to get an interview at all to even get the job as soon as employer detects I actually have young children or am over 40.

Unless it's minimum wage I expect to be asked to worry about deadlines and getting work done in my spare time at home, and to actually be working then. I expect the most junior manager to be appointed to give me news about redundancy; I'll be told that the company could get a full time junior member of staff for my pay (on 40%, short salary scale). When I point out the numbers are wrong, that I don't earn anywhere near as much as someone FT on the bottom of salary scale I expect to be shirtily told I'm wrong.

I expect jargonistic meaningless wiffle waffle at performance reviews and being expected to laugh at the boss's stupid jokes and join in silly gossip about shoes with other colleagues.

I expect to be permanently stressed out, fat from erratic too rich meals and snacks, and generally imbibing too much booze and caffeine. I'll have only a vague clue what's going on in my children's lives and will spend too much on shopping because I don't have time to shop around for bargains.

Ah, the joys of being a working stiff, why am I hesitating, eh?

SamSmalaidh Thu 10-Jan-13 16:47:35

None of that is the fault of a babysitter/childcarer though - they deserve to have their tax paid properly and be treated decently.

Kiriwawa Thu 10-Jan-13 18:50:08

I pay a young woman £7/hour to look after my DS a couple of nights a week. She collects him from school/afterschool club, gives him dinner and plays wii with him until I get home. She works max 3 evenings so never earns more than about £60/week so I don't pay tax/NI and nor does she (she doesn't claim benefits).

I found her through findababysitter and I got tons of applicants, many of them the 'older women with grown up kids' variety.

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