Mumsnet Talk

The people I nanny for are unhappy that Ive had to cut back my hours and are behaving in a very unreasonable manner towards me in response to this.
I feel that they've become very critical of my practice and the atmospheres turned toxic.
I want to leave but I have accrued 100 hours holiday which im worried I wont get if I suddenly leave and also they may take revenge by giving me a bad reference I've always bent over backwards to please them and the minute I can no longer meet their needs they take it personally and it is my word against theirs, I feel so dis empowered.
Any help greatly received.

Well to be fair, there are very few jobs where the employer is able to accept a reduction in working hours by the employee. How much have you cut back your hours? Are the family genuinely able to manage on less hours or are they struggling with childcare now?

It sounds as if the relationship had broken down between you so you either confront them about it or resign.

You could join Voice which is a union. They helped me a few years ago when I was unhappy in a job

If you cannot meet their childcare needs, then they have no alternative but to get somebody else to take over entirely or get somebody else to make up the hours that you can't do. I hope you gave them plenty of notice that you wanted to reduce your hours. If you want to leave and give the proper notice then you should be entitled to payment for the days you have accrued. Hope you sort things out.

You say you 'can no longer meet their needs' - not many jobs would keep you on if you weren't fulfilling the requirements of the role. Did you cut back your hours for medical reasons?

You do realise they would have been perfectly entitled to insist you did not cut back your hours, and were able to dismiss you for not fulfilling your terms of employment (normal disability requirements notwithstanding)?

What exactly are the circs of your cutting back your hours? Without further info it's impossible to tell who is being unreasonable here.

As others have said most employers have to work a certain amount of hours and if you can't manage that anymore for whatever reason then you need to resign and put in writing

Assuming you have a contract so sure any holiday pay will be paid

Hopefully you have nanny insurance (as I feel all professional nannies should have it) so maybe call them for advice

I agree there's more to this. Your first point if call would be your insurance company. I don't know whether Voice would take you as a member just Di you can raise a grievance.

ACAS can give you employment law advice but I'm really not sure why you feel you the a right to work less hours than your contract states (if that is what you are saying is happening).

Would you suddenly leave, or would you give notice? I would have thought you would give some notice, not just walk out. If you give notice then they may agree that some of that notice period is taken as holiday.

I can just imagine my employers reaction if I announced tomorrow that I wouldn't be working my contracted hours from now on. In most jobs you have to put in a flexible working request (if that is what your reduction in hours relates to) and employer has to consider but not necessarily accept. And as other posters say they have every right to dismiss you if you don't fulfil your contract

A quick trawl through your other posts and it appears, OP, that you have cut back your hours in order to start attending Uni.

Unless this was all explicitly agreed by them at the start of your employment, I think that you are lucky they kept you on to be honest. Given the circs they are also entitled to decide at any point that they need someone for the longer hours you previously worked, and to make you redundant if you are unable to fulfil this. Belonging to a union won't change this.

This is a clear breach of contract on your part and therefore they are entitled to dismiss you, and it would be fair to do so. I think you should reconsider your position and try to see this from their point of view

Yep, what the others said. If you are a nanny as opposed to a childminder you are an employee not a self employed provider of childcare. As such you have the right to submit a flexible working request but not to unilaterally alter your working hours. You're lucky they've given you some flexibility so far. In their shoes I'd give you notice tbh.

I think you should sit down with them and tell them that you want to leave but you Are worried about your 100 hours, which is really the situation. You can't stay as you can't do the job so you might as well get the wheels in motion.

I think you better check you contract on the matter of pay in lieu of holidays not taken. My contract says holidays not taken will not be paid.

I once had a nanny declare she didn't want to do some of the hours and said I could get someone else in to do that part. To which I replied "You can do all of the job or none of it. Part of it is not on offer."

Strix - It is unlawful for your contract to say you don't get paid for accrued but untaken holidays (at least in relation to statutory holiday entitlements, would have to double check on anything over and above as it has been a while since I looked). Even if your contract says that, you would still be entitled to be paid. What your contract can say is that you can be asked to use up holiday during your notice period.

Hmmmm... might have to change the wording. It has been there for years. I started with a contract template and that was in it.

It has never been an issue though. We have had nannies leave when they had a few days of hol left and we just tacked it on the end as if they were on holiday and paid them through that time. But, if a nanny said she could no longer work for me, wanted to leave immediately, and wanted her 100 hours of holiday paid in lieu, then there would be an issue.

I do have the right to approve holiday. And i might not approve it all on the spot. But, I do see what you are saying. I guess its best never to let so much of it accrue.

Now I'm curious... we have a use it or lose it holiday policy at the end of each year. I presume that must be legal?

hmmmm.... I bet someone here can enlighten me.

Yup - use it or lose it for the holiday year is totally legal (except some convoluted and barely comprehensible case law regarding long term sickness absence that I will not bore you with). Of course, if you were routinely refusing requests that might be different...

Don't know exactly how the reduction in hours was agreed, or even any of the details here, but I do think it's wrong if the employers agreed to it but then turned grumpy and difficult as well. If they didn't like the change proposed by the nanny, they should have discussed ending the employment. They shouldn't accept it then sulk about it.

I never have any holiday to use lol

Op - what's the outcome then?

snaplock, you do sound a little stroppy about this which could account for your employers toxic attitude but they employed you to cover certain hours and you are being unreasonable to expect them to be happy about it!

@Strix and @GalaxyDisaster - I think you are at cross-purposes.

GalaxyDisaster is saying that you must pay accrued holiday pay for the year when someone leaves, which is correct.

Strix your contract is fine - you don't have to pay or carry over holiday not taken at the end of the year to a continuing employee (apart from GalaxyDisaster's rare and uncertain loophole).

I'm not sure we are because Strix's initial comment was responding to the question about the nanny having a lot of accrued holiday on leaving, so I thought we were talking in that context. The fact that use it or lose it was separate also seems to confirm that.

However, if we have been talking at cross purposes, I apologise for not being clear and MrAnchovy is totally right. You do not have to pay for accrued but untaken holiday for continuing employees (bar my random loophole issue) and you can operate 'use it or lose it' (i.e no carrying holiday forward).