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Think this is going to end badly

(60 Posts)
Photoseverywhere Sat 13-Oct-12 09:04:05

My boss has just given me a new contract to sign as current charge has now gone to school, I've put the whole sorry saga in Employment issues I was told that I would not be on call during the day when my charge was at school and that I would not be working school holidays. I was also encouraged to get another job that fitted in with this ie during school hours only. I was also told I could claim Time of in Lieu. Last week I told her I was not available for an INSET day as I had plans and also told her I was owed a certain number of hours of in lieu for overtime worked.

Last night she gave me my new contract

“Your employers normal days of work are M-F for 50 hours. Your normal days of work are M-F for 25 hours. You may be required to work such additional hours as are reasonably necessary for the proper performance of your duties and meeting the needs of the family. Extra payment will not be made for any additional hours worked”

"Your employer has the right to vary your working hours and days in accordance with the family needs”

I don't want to sign it. Which means effectively I am handing in my notice of 4 weeks... this is going to end so badly sad My other issue is I am supposed to be doing 3 weeks proxy parenting and now that shes turned round like this I don't want to sad

I am a live in nanny so effectively when I hand in my notice on Monday (unless she says something over the weekend) then I am making myself homeless and will have no job.

Sorry for venting I just feel like my backs up against a wall.

Brycie Tue 16-Oct-12 02:21:30

Yes I'm keen to find out what happened. I hope it all went well.smile

RandomMess Mon 15-Oct-12 22:03:12

How did it go, don't envy you being live in with the sort of atmosphere it must be creating sad

forevergreek Sun 14-Oct-12 16:38:27

i would write a note saying i you are available between x and y hours (as current contract says)

if any additional hours are needed they are to be paid at x amount per hour and subject to nanny availability

if you they need somebody 50hrs a week plus, then they need to be paying for 50hrs everyweek, otherwise what you do outside those hours is up to you

personally i would hand my notice in and find somewhere else

Karoleann Sat 13-Oct-12 21:23:42

What an appalling boss you have.
I think she's trying it on and hoping you'll Accept, she can't honestly think you'd work extra hours free!
As you've said you just need to have a chat with her (maybe tomorrow if you're living in) and explain that you're okay about this reduction in hours, but you need a way to offset the reduction in pay so you can either find another job. In which case you won't be around to to ad hoc and holiday cover. Or as a very minumin extra hours have to be paid.
Either way I wouldn't sign the contract and I certainly wouldn't take time in Leiu instead of pay. Then start looking or another job.

YokoOhNo Sat 13-Oct-12 16:56:09

I would stall her. Don't sign anything. She's obviously really, really pushing you to sign the new contract, but I'd simply take the copy contract, say thank you and tell her you'll just get it checked over by a lawyer to make sure it's all in order and hopefully there wont be too many amendments required and you'll be able to sign by the end of the week. Call her bluff. If she took legal advice, so she says, it's not unreasonable for you to do the same.

Whether you do go to a lawyer or not is up to you, but i agree with the other posters that it sounds highly unreasonable to me. I'm a lawyer (not employment, so no use to you) and I wouldn't sign that.

In the meantime, tell her that you'll need a reference for the school hours job she is proposing you get.

RandomMess Sat 13-Oct-12 16:49:13

Wise Mum you have there Photos smile

Photoseverywhere Sat 13-Oct-12 16:44:14

Haha Brycie thought you were saying my boss was being rail roaded by me! grin

Just spoke to my mum! She said I should clarify what hours I am to work as I want to get a xmas job at boots etc, boss will then say well I want you available (which she said I wasn't to do) or say the hours I am free to work. If she says well I need you to be at my beck and call then I can say but you told me that I could get another job. Then say I am not happy to work for no pay, and leave it in my bosses court as to what then happens ie does she pay me or sack me. If she says someone else would sign just reiterate tto her that she said this ie "are you saying that you are ending our contract?" Then go from there.

Thanks for everyones help.

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 16:35:25

The second "she" is the nanny - I'm sure you get what I mean photo.

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 16:34:50

I think I must be a really horrible person but it looks to me like a reasonable person in serious danger of being railroaded by an unreasonable person if she continues to try to be reasonable!

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 16:33:43

Actually - good point, if she's already suggested you look for a job you should have NO problem getting a reference straight away. I would definitely let her cool her heels for a bit. Obviously the next employer will phone her but she'll know that if she badmouths you - you're still under her roof.

juneau Sat 13-Oct-12 16:10:48

I would get an employment lawyer to look it over and give you advice. If it was me, I'd probably tell her that's what I was doing too and that's why I need more time. She sounds like a bully.

You can stall while trying to negotiate and come to an agreement, such as suggested by JustSpiro. Could you see if you were able to find a nursery shift in those hours? It might be easier to find a job later on, either in that nursery or otherwise if you are employed. That might solve the reference issues, as your boss has already suggested you find a job. She would obviously not mind you finding a job in those hours. Whether it be in a nursery, or as a live out nanny with another family.

RandomMess Sat 13-Oct-12 16:04:27

Could you ask her to consider some sort of flexi time sheet, I would consider the contract, give her lots of options and compromises to look at and ask for a meeting to discuss it again in a weeks time wink

JustSpidero Sat 13-Oct-12 15:59:30

You said you're at Uni - would they be able to help with accommodation under the circumstances, either halls or lists of local rooms/flatshares? Do they have any nursery/crèche facilities that are recruiting?

I think it's worth trying to hang in there if you can, but if it's going to be causing regular issues because your employer is taking the mick or pressuring you re the new contract I can see why you'd want to get out sooner.

Photoseverywhere Sat 13-Oct-12 15:31:52

So keep quiet, make her write me a reference, look for a job whilst staying here.

She said I would only be working 18.75 hours but be paid for 25 - so I made the descision to work the 7.15-9.30 2.30-5.30 so that she couldn't turn round at any time and say I was paid 7 hours more than I worked - also means I have time to do nursery duties etc.

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 14:27:27

If you have a good reference I don't think you'll find it hard to get a new job. You need maybe two months - I don't think being thrown out and having to flat hunt at the same time will help.

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 14:24:22

Firstly, she can't legally pay you less as you are under contract. Secondly, if she's going to unilaterally start paying you less then your job at that place is over, and the question is, do you want to find a flatshare - given you might get a live-in job - or do you want to stay where you are and use your free hours during the day to find a new job.

JustSpiro Sat 13-Oct-12 14:23:37

So the implication was that your employer would take time off for INSET's, the, which is fair enough.

It sounds like a tricky situation to work round anyway.

Your employers normal days of work are M-F for 50 hours. Your normal days of work are M-F for 25 hours. You may be required to work such additional hours as are reasonably necessary for the proper performance of your duties and meeting the needs of the family. Extra payment will not be made for any additional hours worked

Your employer has the right to vary your working hours and days in accordance with the family needs

Assuming you did want to try and work it out (if only to give you a bit of breathing space to find something rather than having to rush it).

Where are they getting 25 hours pw from? The hours you mention above total 18.75 so that would need addressing (unless that included some weekend/evening work - but I'd ask them to be more specific)

Additional hours - you said you'd agreed to TOIL for those. I think they need to give you an idea (and you them) of what would be considered reasonable. 3 or 4 hours a week that you take of as TOIL is one thing, expecting you to be in charge pretty much 24/7 unpaid is unreasonable - quite apart from anything else how could you ever recoup that in TOIL? So perhaps a clause stating that 'up to x hours a week as TOIL and anything in excess of that paid at an hourly rate of £X.'

Right to vary your working hours - ok, but how much notice do they have to give you of this? Will this apply to occasional temporary changes or just big, permanent ones such as the current situation, in which case a different notice period might be required (i.e. 48 hours min for occasional, 4 weeks for l/t permanent changes).

It's a lot of work and aggro if you're already not happy and your boss is not the most reasonable person in the world. Worst case scenario would agency work be an option for you until you find something permanent?

Photoseverywhere Sat 13-Oct-12 14:18:13

But essentially regardless of whether I sign it or not - it will stand she will continue to work overtime and I will continue not to be paid for it.

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 14:14:49

Photos, it doesn't matter if she knows you're stalling, what's she going to do about it?

nannynick Sat 13-Oct-12 14:12:40

I don't feel you should resign. She should give you notice that the contract is ending.
I think that if you resign then you can't claim job seekers allowance for a while - anyone know thecurrent JSA entitlement rules.

Brycie Sat 13-Oct-12 14:08:39

On Monday just say that you need more time to think. That's all.

fraktion Sat 13-Oct-12 14:07:36

Also I suspect she is trying to make you resign so you can be replaced with an au pair. She may have been advised that your previous employment puts you in the running for redundancy payment so she doesn't want to actually make you redundant.

fraktion Sat 13-Oct-12 14:06:35

I second the advice to seek further advice. A lot will depend on the wording of your contract given what you said on the other thread.

Is NCMA who you have your insurance through? Did you speak to the insurer's legal team? I've heard the standard helplines aren't that great for nannies as the organisation is set up primarily for CMs who obviously don't have the same nitty gritty employment law issues.

I would not sign that contract as it stands.

Photoseverywhere Sat 13-Oct-12 13:59:18

Justspiro - I was told I would not be on call during school hours, I would not work school holidays etc and would only work 7.15-8.45 and 3.15-5.30. She told me I could get a job during school hours - therefore how am I supposed to cover inset days if I have another job that she agreed I should take on?

I imagine she wants it signed asap - she will know I am stalling.

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