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Londoners, how much do you pay your live-out nanny? Help me decide if I should give our nanny a raise.

(71 Posts)
AubergineKenobi Thu 03-May-12 11:04:39

How much do you pay your London nanny net (or gross if you know that figure)? How much have you raised their salary each year? Do you decalre every penny you pay them?

It would be really helpful to know how other London nanny employers pay their nannies as ours is asking for a significant raise and we do not think we can afford it. We might have to say no but there is no point in doing that if all other nannies are going to ask the same.

Our nanny is live-out. She works 8.30am to 6.30pm Mon - Thurs. She has 9 weeks paid leave each year (a big perk I would think, although all leave is in school holidays). We have two children, the youngest is in nursery 9-12 each day so the nanny has three hours when she is paid but does not have a lot to do (cleaning the childrens' rooms etc but nothing else).

When she started with us just under 3 years ago we agreed £10 per hour net and we decalred it all and paid her tax and NI. At her two annual reviews since then we have given her £200 bonus and offered her £15 more a week (not declared, so she now gets £30 a week cash-in-hand). This means she gets just under £11 an hour net. She has asked for a raise to £12 an hour.

Is she asking too much? Her job is actually easier now due to youngest going to morning nursery. Could we easily find another nanny eager to work £10 an hour net? Or have nanny's salaries risen considerable in the last 3 years (DH and I have been on a pay freeze since 2009!).

longjane Thu 03-May-12 20:34:27

I think the questions here is
Do you want to keep your nanny?
Can you afford to pay her what she is asking?
If the answer is no to either question you should start looking for a new nanny as you are going to have one piss off/looking for a new job nanny on your hands .
If is the just that you can afford and you want to keep nanny you going to have a very frank talk with her.

I think u are paying a good wage. On a net basis we pay 10.50/hr for 52.5 hrs a week for 3 boys under 5. That's about £15 hour gross. Our nanny has 25 years experience and is ultra reliable. She will likely get 2 extra weeks paid holiday this year but she prefers to do some free babysitting for us to make up for some of it (5 evenings).
We are Kensington and pay top end.
If you really love your nanny and don't want her to leave but she will leave without a pay rise she is being a bit cheeky asking for a 20 pct rise partic as she gets so much paid leave. You could offer a rise but ask her to work some of the usual leave. Did u get a 20pct rise? Where does she think u can magic it from? There are lots of lovely experienced nannies who would love your job!

Blondeshavemorefun Fri 04-May-12 19:49:07

You are Paying a good wage and over the top for holidays

So decide if you can and want to pay more or say no and poss get a new nanny

AubergineKenobi Sat 05-May-12 09:04:52

Thanks everyone. I had 'the chat' with the nanny last night & I explained we can't afford any more money. She said she understood but might have to look elsewhere. I said we would be very sad to lose her but she has to do what she has to do.

We will see what happens. If this thread is right she is unliekly to find a better paid job & I know age adores our girls so maybe we will be lucky and not lose her. If she does go I think we may explore the au pair plus route and start saving for school fees!

thomasbodley Sat 05-May-12 09:36:05

I've literally never heard of 9 weeks' paid holiday a year, and £10 net per hour is well accepted as the going rate. I know this and don't even have kids of my own!

I do agree with others that your nanny's perceptions may be coloured by other nannies being paid cash in hand - amazing how holier-than-thou MNs are about this, as this is absolutely NOT the norm amongst my friends. Even my mates who are lawyers and accountants and would lose their practice certs if caught out by HMRC have told me they've often been tempted to go down this road.

You may find nothing much happens despite her threats. In my circle of friends, several parents are losing jobs, or losing work if self-employed, and going down the au pair or nannyshare route instead. I also know two nannies who are currently 'resting', one in SW11 and one in W6. One of them is ex public school and ex Norland, the kind of girl who used to get snapped up by rich Americans and Arabs. She's working behind the bar at our local for the moment.

Fraktal Sat 05-May-12 14:26:13

I think the holier than thou perspective comes a) from parents who are paying the full whack and get pissed off that other people don't, b) from nannies who are fed up about employers not wanting to deduct their tax and NI from wages which means they end up not getting things like SMP, c) from the fact the treasury loses an estimated £57m a year from nannies being paid cash in hand and when the country is in dire straits "every little helps" to quote a well known supermarket!

There's actually a petition to stop this net pay culture here as part of a big campaign that is being launched next week.

bbcessex Sat 05-May-12 17:35:51

I've had two nannies who have become pregnant and been eligible for SMP..

I can't imagine how awful that would have been if they'd have found out they weren't eligible because I hadn't been paying tax & NI for them. shock

kelpie6333 Sat 05-May-12 17:55:33

We had a nannyshare and fell out with the other family when they refused to pay their share of our nanny's tax bill! In the end they reluctantly paid but now blank us in the playground and at social events. Pathetic!

Blondeshavemorefun Sat 05-May-12 18:00:41

thomas i have had 10/11 weeks holiday a year for the past 5 years as parents liked to spend time with their dc, so i had every half term off (3) often 2 weeks at easter and xmas (4) plus my 2 weeks and their 2 weeks and yes i got paid in full and time off - tho must admit this is rare

op - so basically you are waiting to see if your nanny finds a better paid job then yours - tbh i would seriously think bout finding a new nanny now

kelpie6333 Sat 05-May-12 20:16:55

Oh and we paid our nanny £12p/h gross between two families in the nannyshare (in SW London) but we only declared 2 of the 4 days she worked for us.

MrAnchovy Sat 05-May-12 20:39:49

*I've had two nannies who have become pregnant and been eligible for SMP..

I can't imagine how awful that would have been if they'd have found out they weren't eligible because I hadn't been paying tax & NI for them. shock*

SMP is not a state benefit and eligibility does not depend on the payment of National Insurance. If you illegally pay someone outside PAYE and they are become pregnant you will have to pay all the back tax and NI, probably a penalty of up to £3,000 and also the SMP!

AubergineKenobi Sun 06-May-12 08:14:20

Just to clarify it's only £30 a week that I don't declare, there is over £400 a week that I do declare.

If the Treasury has a huge clampdown on nanny tax I genuinely wonder how many families will choose other childcare due to prohibitive costs.

Fraktal Sun 06-May-12 08:38:32

I imagine that the nanny market will moderate slightly and fewer will be demanding 20% pay rises!

Mrskbpw Sun 06-May-12 08:47:17

I don't have a nanny but I have friends who do and NONE of them pay tax on their full salary. My brother's girlfriend is Canadian and a nanny and when her working visa ran out she found a job working for a family (illegally, obviously!) cash in hand. The dad was a barrister specialising in immigration!

Seems to be far easier to fiddle your childcare costs than claim benefits you're not entitled to and absolutely the treasury should clamp down on it.

FaceCrack Sun 06-May-12 08:53:14

We are west London.
We pay 8ph net when she has DD. 12 hours a week she also has a friends baby and between us we pay 12ph net.

Our nanny isn't British. She used to be our cleaner and has no childcare experience which is why she has a lower rate of pay. She does 7.30-6.30 3 days a week and she has 5 weeks paid hol plus bank holidays on top. Mostly she works slightly under the hours we pay her for, but we need the flexibility.

I think your nanny is taking the mick to be honest. 9 weeks hol a year! Amazing, she's very lucky!

FionaSR Sun 06-May-12 17:36:57

I recruited a new nanny 6 months ago and pay 450 net a week for 52 hours and standard leave of 4 weeks plus public hols.
I wast told by the agency that rates have gone down in the current economic climate!
Don't know about you but my take home pay has been pretty static too.
We do give early finishes and extra leave on ad hoc basis.

mossity Mon 07-May-12 10:59:58

I'm going back 10 yrs but I was a nanny in London. I had 3 kids. 1 at nursery and 2 at school. I started at 11.45 picking up youngest from nursery but did work till 7-30 ! I did no chores as an au pair was also employed. My net salary was £350 a week with 8 weeks paid holiday!!! The family I worked for we're very wealthy... In the property business! I also had the opportunity to travel abroad with them all expenses paid plus normal salary but would only have the children a few hours a day x

Yummymummy2301 Mon 07-May-12 12:30:03

We have our nanny through a company , who found her for us , set up interview etc ( no admin/finders fee) and then the nannies wages go through their payroll system , so they take our money every month after invoicing us and then they pay her wages into her bank every month which works out really well for us , we pay £11.50 ph for her, £9.50 for evening work and a flat rate of £40 for an overnight stay (when the kids are asleep till waking up at 7am), it may seem a little more expensive than on average a lot of you are paying however we don’t have to worry about tax and NI , sick pay, holiday pay, which is a massive relieve she’s on a 0 hours contract which is handy to have just incase , on average we giver her between 25-35 how but to know if we had a last minute holiday where she wasn’t able to come with us we don’t have to worry about her wages!

Blondeshavemorefun Mon 07-May-12 13:21:51

yummymummy tbh what you are doing sounds dodgy and possibly illegal -you are her employer and should be paying tax and ni on her wages - she is legally entitled to holiday and ssp

MrAnchovy Mon 07-May-12 23:30:37

No Blondes, the arrangement Yummymummy2301 is talking about can be done perfectly legally and is very common in other sections of the worforce - the nanny is an 'agency worker' and not an employee.

Agency workers have most, but not all, of the rights of employees - more details on DirectGov if you are interested. Specifically, they are entitled to paid holiday and SSP which are paid by the agency and the rate that the 'engager' (i.e. the parent(s)) pays to the agency is higher than the rate the agency pays the worker to cover this.

nannynick Tue 08-May-12 06:57:55

It is the same as nursery temping. Nursery nurse is paid by the agency. The nursery is invoiced a much higher amount by the agency.
For a temp nanny, I can see that it makes more sense doing it this way, as the agency run the PAYE scheme.
MrAnchovy - is there any limit to how long such an agreement could last? For example, is there any reason why say a nanny working 40 hours a week for a single family could not have pay done in this way?

Blondeshavemorefun Tue 08-May-12 09:22:14

really mr a?? sounds so weird to me - always thought a nanny could only be employed by a family

apologizes yummmummy

thomasbodley Tue 08-May-12 10:18:37

I'm not remotely surprised about the barrister's nanny, Mrskbpw. I suspect a fair few of my own barrister friends are paying cash in hand for "babysitting". It is one of the great urban myths that barristers are loaded; cashflow problems are a nightmare even for those with a decade's call.

I also know for a fact that many of my self-employed friends have "runners" on the payroll (ie tax-deductible members of staff) whose duties, in practice, are almost wholly domestic and childcare.

Grey economy, innit. As Aubergine says, if people had to declare these, even the six figure households are going to look elsewhere for childcare and cleaners.

MrAnchovy Tue 08-May-12 20:34:29

Nick there is no restriction on the length of time a person may be engaged as an agency worker, but for 2 reasons these arrangements are often short-term:

1. One of the key benefits of using an agency worker is flexibility - in particular there is no entitlement to redundancy pay. If you don't need the flexibility there is little need to pay the premium

2. People often take agency work (as opposed to genuine temporary work) only when they cannot find an employed role. This is partly because the rates tend to be lower than an employer would pay - bear in mind that 12.07% comes off the rate for holiday pay, and another 13.8% for employers NI so even before allowing for overheads and profit for the agency plus some risk allowance for maternity pay, bad debts etc. that £11.50ph has become £9ph gross.

ChrissieLC Wed 09-May-12 16:19:01

OMG nannys around here are paid £6.5 to £7.5 net per hour! Get a nanny from a different area! (my area is only 25 mins train from london!! herts/beds)

She is asking for too much. The more you give the more some people take. Most peoples salarays are going down, not up. There are 8 nannys to every 1 job here, people that would leap at the opportunity of being paid £10 nph. Declare what you do pay her and make sure she realises how lucky she is!

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