Mumsnet Talk

We have managed to find our first ever au pair and she is coming in March.

We are paying £70 per week and she has her own (not huge sadly) bedroom and own shower room. How do you decide what counts as "work" when au pair lives in?

E.g we live in village, not much to do here. I am a Sahm. If au pair sits in living room with me and DC watching telly presume is not work? What about if I go for a walk or swimming with dc and I ask if she'd like to come?

What are her working hours? Generally au pairs do 25 a week - so 7am-9am and 3pm-6pm for example, or 12pm-5pm if they have classes in the morning etc.

If she finishes at 5pm and then chooses to sit with you watching TV, that's not work. If she works afternoons and you ask her to come with you to take children swimming, that's work. If she doesn't work weekends and you give her the option to go on a walk with you, that's not work. If you ask her to help out at a birthday party on a Saturday, that's overtime.

Hi Rita , thank you that is really helpful. We have said 25 hrs/week and DC below school age so all of us will be in the house together all the time. This is why I think I need to set clear "work times" from the start. She gets weekends off and will go to language school one afternoon a week.

I'm seeking help as I am unwell. DC on afternoon napping pattern, so would the following work?

I ask that Au pair always works mornings, say 8-11. That will allow me some time to sleep if i've been up at nigt. I then ask her to work again say 5-7. I can then make the dinner before DH comes home and have another sleep if I'm exhausted.

I then invite her to join us for lunch and dinner if she wants, but these are optional. She gets every evening and 11-5 off. Does that sound ok?

Sounds fine.

Thank you Rita

I hadn't really thought about making working hours clear until today.

Will have to think whether I should batch cook for DH and prepare meals except veg in advance. Currently just find it impossible to cook, DS v clingy. DH has been cooking but now won't be home until later.

Have just had another thought. Is it a bit rubbish to tell her not to work when we are doing fun activities e.g. Swimming? If it was me I think I'd be annoyed to be asked to work at home doing boring stuff while mum goes out to do the best bits.

What do you mean - if you take DS swimming you'd want her to stay at home and get on with some laundry or something?

I think during her working hours you can ask her to do any reasonable tasks. I would make everything clear upfront though. Let her know what tasks you'll want her to do before she arrives. Are you going to want her to do the same things every day/week (clean up after breakfast daily, change bedding on tuesdays, babysit every friday etc) or will you assign her jobs as and when.

Other issues to think about - who will she eat with? Can she stay in the living room if she wants to in the evenings (does she have a TV/computer in her room?)? Should she clear up after dinner - split the washing up? What are the rules on having guests? Can she go out on a week night? Does she need to let you know if she'll be staying out late/not eating at home?

It doesn't matter hugely what you decide - just make everything as clear as possible. If there is less room for misunderstanding everyone is happier. And most importantly tell her how you want things done, something that seems obvious to you might not be obvious to someone else.

I hadn't really thought about making working hours clear until today.

Those hours sound fine - you do need to make it clear:
1. what hours you want her to work
2. what you want her to do during those hours
3. that you don't expect her to be doing anything else during those hours

If it was me I think I'd be annoyed to be asked to work at home doing boring stuff while mum goes out to do the best bits.

Of course you would - so would I and so will she. Ask her if she wants to come swimming with you.

That's so helpful - thank you !

I've put on the form that I will tell her duties on a week by week basis - wanted to leave some flexibility. So I guess I can try out which times suit me best.

About the swimming I mean that I might set the timetable so she has mornings off on days when I do activities. So that e.g I take DS swimming in a Monday morning. I come back and am really tired so need to sleep. I fix it so she has Monday morning off and she works Monday afternoon.

I know it's a job, but I want her to be happy and I guess I'm thinking that if I never give her a chance to do any activities she will get bored and that will impact on DS and us.

Thank you MrAnchovy that's very useful - xposted with you. I think you are dead right about the swimming. I'm aiming to treat her as I would want to be treated if I was working abroad as au pair.

Anything else you think I absolutely must make clear in advance?

It's fine to schedule her working hours for the afternoon if you are taking ds swimming in the morning - if you invite her to come too make it clear that it is not work time, and she's not obliged to come.

Anything else you think I absolutely must make clear in advance?

Yes loads - search here and elsewhere for 'au pair handbook' and 'au pair contract'

Aaaggghhh Didn't want to do a contract. Do I really have to do one? Won't agency do that!

The agency might. Legally all employees are entitled to a contract/statement of conditions (check the direct.gov.uk website for details on what must be included), make sure you get holiday entitlement etc right.

Good point, Rita. I am giving 2.5 days paid holiday/month and then public holidays as well. All weekends are free time.

2.5 days paid holiday/month and then public holidays as well.

Holy cow, that's 38 days (39 this year with the extra BH) - statutory minimum is 28. Sounds like a good deal!

Maybe that's why she was so keen! Didn't add it up across the year - see am such a newbie to this I don't mind giving generous hols but have stipulated on form that au pair must agree in advance when days will be taken and should not take any in first 2 weeks.

If they are going to be here over the summer it is usual also to agree that at least 2 weeks of her holiday are to be taken at a time of your choice i.e. when you take your holiday - unless you are planning to take her with you of course.

Oh yes that's another very good point - hadn't thought of that at all. Thank you!

Out of interest why didn't you want to do a contract (which is a legal requirement do just as well you found out)? It's not a big scary thing, it's a chance for you to write down exactly this kind of thing, to agree it clearly in writing and have it to refer to in the future. That way both parties know where they stand and are equally protected.

You sound very reasonable and you have the right attitude to arrangement - it just needs putting into the legal framework as it were.

Hi Fraktal, definitely wanted the au pair to have a contract, just didn't want to do it myself. The agency fees are quite high, so I was hoping I wouldn't need to do any paperwork myself.

I think what we've already given her may count as we've set out hours, pay, holidays in writing on the agency's form and she has signed the agency's rules, which include notice provisions. Will check gov.uk site to see if we've missed anything.

Didn't want to do a contract. Do I really have to do one? Won't agency do that!

No, it's more likely that the agency will tell you that you don't need a contract and the au pair doesn't have any rights anyway

I think what we've already given her may count as we've set out hours, pay, holidays in writing on the agency's form and she has signed the agency's rules, which include notice provisions. Will check gov.uk site to see if we've missed anything.

This is the way that many agencies like to work but you should be aware that under English Law (and also in the rest of the UK) the contract is an agreement between you and the au pair; any agreement that is made between you and the agency, or between the agency and the au pair is only relevant to the extent that
(i) the agency is acting as an Employment Business under the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations; or
(ii) the agency is acting as an undisclosed agent for either party; or
(iii) the terms of the agreement(s) with the agency may be construed as evidence of unwritten terms of the contract between you and the au pair.

If you don't want to risk this legal minefield if anything goes wrong it would be better IMHO (this is not professional advice) to have a written contract in place between you and the au pair.

I see the advantage of clarity! My only concern though is won't it just make the legal situation still more complex if the contract is made up of all the agency stuff and I then add my own contract on top ?

No, what I meant to highlight in my previous post was that the 'agency stuff' is in practice irrelevant. If there is a piece of paper that you have both signed then that is the terms of your contract.

It only becomes a minefield when that piece of paper isn't there and the intentions of the parties have to be interpreted from other things, like correspondence with the agency.

Note also that I am only referring to the situation under the laws of England and Wales, of Scotland and of Northern Ireland. In other jurisdictions the laws of contract and/or employment law may be different, and some jurisdications have laws or regulations applying specifically to au pairs which is not the case in the UK (with the exception of certain limited categories of immigration).

Not really given that the contract between you and the au pair supersedes everything else.

As it stands you have an agreement with the agency, as does she, and you have an offer letter but you and she don't have a clear, formal written agreement.