Mumsnet Talk

I could only afford a nanny if she was ofsted-registered and I could therefore claim tax credits.But I worry that the number of ofsted registered nannies is lower and also that they would charge a higher rate. Am I worrying for nothing??

Most nannies will happily OFSTED register if you're happy to pay the costs. I think it's a first aid course (if they don't have a current one) then a lot of forms, police checks & a registration fee. It's pricey for nannies to do as not all employers are looking for it. If you go through an agency they should advise you.

All the nannies I know are Ofsted registered, it's almost always required now. Ofsted registered nannies don't charge more. If you find someone you like who isn't registered it's a fairly simple process and I'm sure they'd be happy to do it if you will pay the fee (£103 last year I think, it has to be renewed every year).

It's fairly standard for nannies to register as part of a permanent role afaik. CRB, childcare qualification, paediatric first aid (if I get a perm post I'll have to re do mine as it's general not child specific) and registration fee. Job done

As the scheme for the childcare vouchers has been running for a while now, more and more nannies are Ofsted registered. You should advertise stating that you want an Ofsted registered nanny and see what replies you get. And no, they don't charge more than other nannies.

As said, you can go down the route of hiring a nanny that will become registered whilst she is working for you, but be warned that this can take a few months and you cannot use the vouchers to pay her until she is. You can bank them to pay her once she is registered but that means you will need to find extra money to cover the period until she is registered.

WTC2 and WTC5 booklets from HMRC are worth a read if you have not done so already, as they explain how tax credits can be used to help pay towards childcare. The booklets also give the current maximum weekly claim amounts.
As the employer you decide on the salary you will offer, so it's up to nannies if they will apply for the job or not at the amount you are offering to pay. Please make sure you understand about PAYE as the tax credits can be used to pay towards cost of employing a nanny, which includes Employers NI.

Is a nanny what you want though? If you told us how many children you have, the start and finish time, plus which days of the week you needed childcare, perhaps we could give suggestions on the types of childcare you could consider.

Hiya as a nanny I'm currently out of jobs im not ofsted registered as I see its a high price to pay where I could be out of work for how many more months, and as you have to renew it yearly think its quite costly to not be using it. But as others had said most nannies who aren't registered maybe for the same reason as me would be happy to register, with the cost covered by the employer.

I decided to register as I had a couple of clients saying they would only hire if I was so they could use vouchers.
It involves needing a level 2+ childcare qualification, liability insurance, CRB, and paediatric first aid. Also I had to register self employed, keep books and file a tax return. If you take the cost of registration, insurance and first-aid it works out at about £150 a year which I paid myself. It did mean I could put my prices up slightly but parents still got a good deal. Personally I think it should be law for all nannies to be registered as I know some parents who leave there child with the 15 year old down the road, which may be fine until something goes wrong.

If you are serious about hiring someone why not offer to pay half the costs, but bear in mind that it can take over 8 weeks just for the CRB to come back.

You don't have to have a qualification to register, my friend registered as my childminding assistant then as a nanny at the same time and she just had to be aware of the core skills, she's a mum of 4 so has experience which they accepted. The crb is only done once and I've sent a few off lately that have come back in less than 2 weeks.

I'm very dubious about that south. Has she been satisfactorily inspected?

Nannies don't get inspected, she has been crb checked and knew the core skills, being a mum is experience what are you dubious about? Just because someone has a qualification doesn't mean they know what they're doing, I'm a childminder and none of my qualifications are in childcare and I'm graded good.

Nannies do get inspected, for compliance with the conditions aka paperwork. Part of the core skills you won't get from being a parent- child protection for example - so I'm dubious as to why OFSTED accepted that as proof of core skills if it's her only experience. Given that they don't require a certificate upon registration all one needs to do is tick the box. Does she have it in writing that it's acceptable for her sake?

I'm not disbelieving you, OFSTED add notoriously incompetent. I'm also curious as to why OFSTED allow that to happen when they also jump on people for having an NNEB which isn't core skills compliant.

My concern if I were to employ someone like that is what happens if they are inspected. Non-compliance is theoretically grounds for barring someone from the registers.

Also as a CM you must at least have the ICP or another LA course behind you.

Also as a CM you must at least have the ICP or another LA course behind you.

This has become somewhat farcical because the course commonly approved by LAs for this purpose is CYPOP5 which is not intended to be a stand-alone qualification and doesn't even cover the common core skills! Even worse there is no nationally recognised qualification (i.e. a Level 2 NVQ) that does cover the core skills other than courses which are assessed in the workplace which is not possible for a nanny.

Nannies do get inspected, for compliance with the conditions aka paperwork.

I believe inspections on the voluntary register may take place once in 10 years or even less frequently. There is no paperwork requirement for a home childcarer on the voluntary register.

Non-compliance is theoretically grounds for barring someone from the registers.

In practice, non-compliance with a training requirment would result in Ofsted serving a notice giving a period of time (usually 6 months) to comply. Only if this were ignored would the person be barred (but this bar can prevent you from ever becoming registered in any part of the register).

she just had to be aware of the core skills, she's a mum of 4 so has experience which they accepted

I believe there was a time when Ofsted were accepting relevant experience as satisfying the common core skills requirement, however they are now quite clear (and the box to tick on the form states) that training in the CCS must have been received. This is somewhat confused by the fact that relevant courses are often called 'Common Core Skills Awareness' so it may appear that only an awareness of (not training in) the CCS is required. Confusion is the order of the day where these regulations and their implementation is concerned

[voluntary registration] involves needing a level 2+ childcare qualification

This is not true - in fact there is no longer any Level 2 childcare qualification suitable for a nanny. Training in the common core skills is the requirement.

I think that has broken my record for serial posting

To clarify by paperwork I meant FA, insurance etc not observations and learning journeys.

And nannies can be assessed in the workplace - at least one on here did an NVQ3 as a nanny and the DCYPW has workplace assessment but can be done by nannies. I think that is also common core compliant (although if it isn't I wouldn't be surprised!).

The NVQ3 and Diploma requirements have always been different, but I can now see that CACHE have changed the requirements for the Level 2 Certificate so that it can be completed by "direct observation within the workplace, a portfolio of evidence, written assignments or a task set by CACHE".

So in theory this would be possible: does anyone know of anyone that actually provides training and assessment for for the CACHE Level 2 Certificate other than full time with a nursery placement?

Yes the Level 3 Diploma (as well as the Level 2 Certificate) is CCS compliant.

Many people don't realise that CYPOP5 is a 5 credit optional module within the 65 credit Level 3 Diploma.

According to a quick search of the Ofsted website I have done, 1027 inspection reports for Home Childcarers were uploaded to the Ofsted Website between 10-Feb-2011 and 10-Feb-2012. Link to search results (not sure if that link will work, give it a try. If not you will need to complete the search from manually).

Over 1000 may sound a lot but it probably isn't as I'm not sure of the figure for how many registered Home Childcarers there are currently in England. Also it's a provider type which includes people who are Not nannies. So whilst most may be nannies, it is hard to be sure what percentage are nannies vs other types of Home Childcarer (such as over 8's childminder).

Over 1000 may sound a lot but it probably isn't as I'm not sure of the figure for how many registered Home Childcarers there are currently in England

I'll bet it's more than 10,000. Home childcarers by definition are not childminders.

If Ofsted inspects a Home Childcarer and finds they are not meeting the requirements for training, then they get an Action.

See EY403087 inspection report - they are given a month to comply.

Though maybe to comply it is enough to say you are signed up to do a course, rather than actually having completed a course. Anyone know if Actions need to be completed in full, or is signing up for a course enough?

Whilst looking through inspection reports I found the following Actions that a Home Childcarer (EY379864) got given:

keep and implement a written statement of procedures to be followed for the protection of children, intended to safeguard the children being cared for from abuse or neglect (Arrangements for Safeguarding Children)

keep a written statement of procedures to be followed in relation to complaints which relate to the requirements of the Childcare Register and which a parent makes in writing or by email (Procedures for dealing with complaints)

So there are some paperwork requirements, but it may be a case of the inspector not knowing the regulations... as

CR2.2 says "Home childcarers must ensure they are familiar with issues of child protection and procedures to safeguard children from abuse or neglect."

It does not say that there must be a written statement of procedures.

CR2.1 says "Childminders must keep and implement a written statement of procedures to be followed for the protection of children, intended to safeguard the children being cared for from abuse or neglect."

CR7.1 says "Childminders must have a written statement of procedures to be followed in relation to complaints which relate to the requirements of the Childcare Register and which a parent makes in writing or by email."

So either the Home Childcarer in this case was actually a Childminder... or the inspector got it wrong in my view... as CR2.1 and CR7.1 I feel do not apply to a nanny.

MrAnchovy wrote: Confusion is the order of the day where these regulations and their implementation is concerned.

I agree with that MrAnchovy... even Ofsted inspectors may be confused.