Hello. I had a crash c-section 15 months ago with my daughter. She is fine but was almost out of oxygen so it was very stressful. I am 37 weeks pregnant again - very soon i know(!) - and have deliberated for MONTHS about what to do with second child. We finally decided to make a decision today and booked an elective c-section. I wanted to have more control over the birth and didn't want to rely on a severely overstretched London hospital over Christmas to try for a VBAC (I am due Christmas Day). BUT I do not feel relived - I almost feel like i'm 'interfering' with the process - and every consultant I have seen is far more pro-VBAC than Caesarean (despite them all asking me how my first child is, ie, did she come out OK?) The consultant today booked my c-section but said to me 'I hope you don't regret your decision'...i now feel unsure. Any thoughts?

As I said before I totally regretted my repeat caesarean Worst decison of my life

um i totally disagree with the pp. my repeat section was far nicer then my emergency one. Far calmer and less stressful.

Maybe you feel a bit panciked as you now realsie the birth is imminent and would feel stressed whcihever decision you had made?

My second C-section was so much better than my first emergency section: calmer, felt more in control, and the recovery time was much better as I wasn't knackered after a 3 day failed induction. Bit bloody insensitive of the consultant to make that comment in my opinion!

i think you're right. i think i would have come away from the appointment far more nervous if I hadn't booked anything!

i am sorry that there are bad experiences out there with repeat c-sections, but the same can surely be said for VB and VBACs - it's a roll of the dice at the end of the day i reckon. nervous as head is out of sand now!

lm - Obstetricians are being hugely pressured at the moment to get the CS rate down hence what your doctors have advised you. As the previous poster said there is a wealth of difference between an emergency CS and a planned one. It will be calm, less stressful for everyone and your baby will be fine. Only thing you might find is a slower recovery from a repeat CS - but am sure someone else will be along to tell you that they had a second and it was a breeze.

The other thing is the time of year you are due - you are quite right that there may be an overstretched service around Christmas - this way you avoid that.

Well I'm guessing you don't feel relieved because there is a big part of you that would like to experience vaginal birth. If there wasn't you would have found it easier to make a decision!

I'm guessing that because that's how I felt. I had my elective c-section booked from 30 weeks and I felt neutral about it, not happy, or relieved.

However, compared to my first birth (just like you I had a crash caesarian with all the accompanying panic) it was really LOVELY on the day. Just lovely to see DS immediately after birth and to be able to hold him and for him to be with us and not in special care.

I recovered very quickly. It honestly was a positive experience. Yet I still feel sad occasionally about never having a vaginal birth, despite my absolute certainty that I wanted an elective c-section second time around.

I had a second CS and recovery was a breeze I was also due on CHristmas Day and went for a planned section following a traumatic emergency with DD1. I too was concerned about going for a VBAC in an overstretched hospital over Christmas and wanted to be at home over the festive period with baby and DD1. There were medical reasons too, and having weighed up the pros and cons, went for a repeat section. Will be having my third in the summer. You will be fine. Just focus on the positives.

Hi I had an elective section with my second son, no regrets, I sometimes wish that I could experience a natural birth but equally accept that I haven't and the chances are that I'd have complications in labour and end up with an emergency section. At least with an elective section you don't go through all the pain of labour, get really tired and then have a major op and distress you and baby in the process. Good luck and if its any help, I recovered really well after the second op. Best of luck. x

I have just had my 3rd CS, first elective. My others were an emergency and a crash one, the latter of which I almost bled to death as they severed an artery. I also had 2 VBAC(1)'s which were great but then I had to have the crash CS which meant any more births would be a VBAC2 which my hospital wouldn't offer me as I was very high risk. . My elective was sooo much better, had consultants booked to do it and the birth was just as special as a normal birth. I had no bleeding arteries etc after spending the whole pregnancy thinking i would bleed to death. Recovery was tough but my baby is here safe which is the main thing.

thank you for all advice - it is a tricky one and i am sad that i will probably never have a VB - i think that's the main thing. x

I had an elective section with DD2 after emergency with DD1. It was a totally fantastic experience, so calm, happy etc. Recovery was amazing too - no doubt my body was in a better state to recover without having had the previous 30 hours of gruelling labour (as with DD1). I'm definitely going to have another elective when DS is born in April (all being well). I do vaguely know what you mean about not ever having a VB - but really in the great scheme of things, does it really matter?? The main event is the baby after all rather than the birth.

I had an emergency (meant to be elective but went into v fast labour early and it was terrifying), followed by an elective. But both my babies were breech, so I didn't feel I had much choice. I vaguely know the I'll never have a vaginal birth oh woe feeling, esp as my brief experience of labour was painfree (didn't know I was in labour until 8cm and even then only like mild tummy ache). But my regrets aren't huge - every time I think it someone comes along and tells me about a hideous vb and I remember the grass is always greener.

I would not advise someone what to do one way or the other on this, it's too personal. All I'd say is remember you'll also be recovering in hospital over Xmas and as I;'m sure you know already post CS support in London hospitals is woeful and likely to be even more so at that time of year. So I hope you can make sure your dh or a relative is around A LOT to support you on the ward while someone else looks after your dc. Good luck.

Hi LuckyMoray,
I am having an elective after my first VB ended in lots of troubles, you're not missing anything I promise (unless someone could absolutely guarantee the earth mother, popping out like a bar of soap with not a scratch to you, kind of scenario, which very few people are lucky enough to end up with IMO).

Most NHS consultants are pro-VB, they have a duty to drive down the C/S rate (as Jollypirate said) and wouldn't have put you down for a C/S without a fight if you weren't a candidate for it (phsycologically in not physically).

My consultant said it could be a very cathartic experience for me, and heal old wounds (mental). I really hope this is the case for you.

Lotser - I'm not questioning your feelings about your own birth or challenging the view that a c-section birth can be very emotionally satisfying, but I can assure you that you DON'T have to have an easy, pain free vaginal birth to feel a huge sense of achievement, to feel empowered and to have a massive 'high' afterwards caused by the hormones you get with a natural birth. I've had three births that on paper look appalling - long, difficult labours with big babies. The first was a bit of a dog's dinner caused by poor care (still had huge hormone high aftewards), but the second and third left me feeling all of those things I mention above. I know it's not for everyone but I do think that the view that a vaginal birth needs to be 'easy' for it to be satisfying isn't accurate.

Another one who has a second cs after a first crash cs and it was a ... breeze .

Got the obstetrician to cut out the scar on my belly as well. It has now healed much better cosmetically.

I would definitely recommend a scheduled cs on an overstretched ward. I delivered in late September - which is stork peak time for all those boozy christmas conceptions - boy did I get an calm easy ride compared to other mothers who were delivering 4 to a room separated by screens and others turned away at the hospital door.

Probably won't be so bad over Christmas, but not great to do VBAC without access to a emergency cs, when needed.

Can I say that a consultant who makes a statement like 'I hope you don't regret your decision ...' is being rather unprofessional.

agree with blueshoes on the consultant's comment.

i have had 2 cs - first was breech and second was purely elective.

first one was fairly calm (ie not emergency, we had cd and camera with us etc etc) but second one was even better than that. recovery was also easier as i knew the ropes.

i do have vague regret about not having done labour (mind you i didnt even realise i was having braxton hicks until midwife started pointing them out to me as i was monitored pre section!!!) - but i am still convinced i made the right choice for me.

gabygirl, I know that. But with the OP having had a traumatic crash C/S the first time round, I would not want to be the person who persuaded her the VB route would be easier than an elective. Because it might not be. And a person in this situation could end up with physical and emotional trauma from the VB too.

If you are determined to have a VBAC I'm sure it can be just as cathartic because it's something you fought for and wanted, but if you aren't, then an elective could be just what she needs...

Lucky, do you know what you really want in your heart? Because if you did want a VB (if mentally you are up to it and the seperate challenges it can bring), from my friends' experiences Christmas can be quieter on the wards. My friend had her baby at Chelsea and Westminster, renowned for poor aftercare, yet said she felt she was private!

I haven't read the replies, sorry.

OP - that consultant is a twat. The last thing he should be doing is undermining you when you have made a difficult decision. Nobody should

I wouldn't dream of advising you on how best to deliver your child, but I will say that your options are still very much open, even if you have booked a section. You can still wait and see how you feel, whether you go into labour before the date of the section, or even cancel the section if you want to (at any stage, despite what the hospital may say). You don't have to feel pressurised, even at a late stage in pregnancy.

My own experience - was all geared up for a VBAC throughout my second pregnancy, and ended up electing for a section right at the end after developing some complications (lost my nerve re: VBAC!). It was a lovely experience (see me blethering on about it in Birth Announcments), and I have recovered a lot more quickly from the whole thing this time around. An elective is a very different experience from a crash section.

Whatever you decide to go for, please don't beat yourself up about it. There is no right or wrong decision.

Lucky - I was in a similar situation to you - seen my consultant this morning and decided to have an elcs.
Some of the background and reasoning is on this thread if it helps
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/childbirth/659503-Should-I-aim-for-a-VBAC
Don't forget you can still change your mind if you want to, but don't feel you have to by any means.
When are you booked in for?

Maybe the consultant isn't a twat. Maybe s/he genuinely hopes the OP won't regret her decision and feels good about her choices.

It is just possible you know.

an you talk to a Doula? Mine was great (HertsnEssex on MN) - even my e-mail??

I agree your consultant sounds like a knob.. My ElCS was wonderful, but it as what I TRULY wanted.

You really need to talk to someone who is experienced but unbiased and is looking to help you decide what to do.

I'm sorry you feel a little undivided, and I'm not going to say 'my El CS was wonderful, yours will be too' cos you aren't me and I don't know what birth plan you had been hoping for.

TSS> x

by e-mail

It is NOT for a consultant or any medical professional to say that sort of thing. Completely unprofessional. You discuss the pros and cons with the client first and then let them make an informed decision. You DON'T then undermine it with a flippant, ill thought out comment like that.

Twat, I say.

Or a human.

But silly throw away comments like that do not help anyone trying to make that decision.
I have been through it today, it's very emotional and that would have sent me into floods of tears or made me want to punch the consultant!

A human who has a job to do and should be professional. Sorry, but I don't understand why you are defending him? Bizarre.

luckymoaray - maybe you'll feel more relieved as the reality sinks in. You make these decisions for yourself and your family, not to make helth profesionals happy, so if you've got to this decision then once it soaks in and your family know too I bet you'll feel more at one with it.

If not you can always look at it again in a few days.

There is no right or wrong- bad thing about the word 'choice'. It implies a or b, and only one is corect. That 'aint so, you have no crystal ball and don't know how your elective would go, or how your vbac would go. EASY in retrospect - but in rl we have to just do what feels right on the day.

MrsMattie - Because what matters is the op and her and her family's feelings and decision making process.

Not defending, giving a point of view. I thought it might help op to move away fron the consultants view and back to her own wants - which should be the bases for a decision like this.

I agree@treedelivery.

But often a throwaway comment like the consultant's can send a woman into spin when they are feeling vulnerable and confused. I guess I am touchy because I had my first (possibly unnecessary) section because of a comment like that from a consultant (thought I would be 'mad' to attempt a vaginal birth - had no real basis for thinking that, it turns out, but he completely threw me and made me doubt a decision I had already made...).

Anyway... agree that the main thing is how the OP feels.
Good luck!

Would it help if you had a doula who could make herself available on Christmas? I am more than happy to talk things through with you either way if you want to. You have my email if you want to talk.

thank you - you are all so kind. turtle dove, i will email you - sorry i haven't done before but we were still deciding. the consultant was a nice lady, but i just wish she hadn't said that, especially when she could see that we had spent ages agonising over what to do and had finally decided to drag ourselves from a kind of 'decision paralysis' to actually decide what to do. The truth is, I don't really know how I feel either way - I just want a healthy baby and a non-injured me! I keep daydreaming about having a 'successful' vaginal birth but, if I look at VBAC list, I am not the best candidate....

Honestly, LuckyMoray, I really think talking to doula is the best way forward.

Someone impartial who can let you talk about all the things you hope and dream of....

For me, I didn't really seriously consider a VB, but that was my choice. I had a wonderful time with my CS and didn't feel in the slightest bit cheated from a natural birth.

But, it was still good to have some one saying: You do have to at least consider this, even if it's just to be sure you want to discount it.

Good luck with whatever you decide

"I would not want to be the person who persuaded her the VB route would be easier than an elective. Because it might not be"

I just don't know how you can so blithely say 'you're not missing anything', when you simply can't know. I know people who've had successful, happy VBACS who feel it was a life-changing event for them. I appreciate that's not the case for everyone (or even most people) but it does happen. And I don't think it's the 'fighting for' and 'getting' a VBAC that makes women feel this way - it's more than that.

Oh Gabygirl... I don't know of this is just my turn or if you are this confrontational as a rule? This is the 2nd time you seemed to have singled me out for this "my way or the highway" treatment.

I don't like it when people's threads asking for support and varied opinions and experience are turned in to an unneccessary arguement. Especially as you seem to have come on here to criticise me without previously bothering to respond to the OP's question.

Please, no more.

I have to agree with Lotster.... I have one son, born by Elective CS (for NO medical indication). I simply wanted one.

I don't feel I missed out on anything. If I am lucky to have another baby, I will have another El CS.

This is my choice. I would never presume that is right for another woman, but it's equally not right to presume VB is right either.

Please!!!

TheSeriousSanta - I didn't presume that VB is 'right' for the OP.

I took issue with Lotser for telling the OP that in not opting for a VB she's not 'missing anything' - basically because she doesn't know how the OP would feel in these circumstances so she's really not in a position to say.

I have no idea what it's like to have an elective c-section, but I can imagine some of the joys - how great it is to know when your baby is going to be born, the focus on the baby rather than the labour, being calm and relaxed as you see your baby into the world with a clear head. I'm able to admit that there are things I've missed out on by not having a c-section, I just can't understand why people who've not experienced a normal birth aren't willing to accept that there can also be powerfully positive feelings to actively giving birth to your baby yourself that are different from the feelings and experiences associated with c-section.

SOrry, gaby I misunderstood!!!

I have experienced a "normal birth" thankyou. Unless you consider forceps assistance not a proper birth?

It was bloody awful, as was the OP's first experience, which is exactly why I said to the OP that she isn't neccessarily missing anything. Not everyone is a tough as you Gabygirl, and having experienced birth trauma myself, and reading how the OP felt in her first post, and subsequently that she doesn't want unpredictable injuries this time round, I stand by her decision. End of.

You weren't on the thread before, you've offered no support to the OP as such and I'm tired of this. I wanted to offer support to someone about the decision they have made, if only you could see that rather than assuming I'm making some sweeping statement. It's not a competition to prove you know more, just one woman giving her opinion and experience to another.

I'll leave another thread and let you have the last word, because I know you won't leave me alone until you do. Enjoy.

Lucky Moray, best of luck with whatever you choose. Hope it all goes well, not long now.

Lotser - don't think it's necessary to be quite so sanctimonious about me not offering support to the OP. Judging by your responses here uou're obviously not exactly averse to a bit of antognistic banter on someone else's thread.

The OP has posted about her subtle, ambivalent feelings about her forthcoming c-section. My responses to your post were part of trying to make sense of that. Because of your own negative experience of vaginal birth you were quick to jump on and assure the OP that she 'wasn't missing anything'. You didn't qualify that statement with the word 'necessarily' - you were categorical that there is nothing to be gained in having a vaginal birth.

My personal feeling is that the OP is experiencing a sense of loss about not having a vaginal birth - however illogical that might be, given that she has weighed it all up and knows that, all things being equal, an elective c-section is the option she feels safer and more comfortable with. It's just a shame that this can't be acknowledged and accepted - but then ambivalence is something that a lot of people don't feel very happy with and don't know how to respond to.