Why are some professionals so against ELCS??(42 Posts)
I've got an ELCS next week which was decided upon when I was about 20 weeks gestation.
Since that decision was made I had a routine check-up appointment with my Cardiologist and when I said I was having a CS she was very judgemental, told me she didn't think it was necessary and used quite accusatory language towards me and spoke in a tone that implied she thought I was just opting for the 'easy route'. She even wrote to my Obstetrician and said she didn't agree with the decision. I left the appointment quite upset. Thankfully my Obstetrician put me at ease and said the Cardiologist's opinion and her letter had no bearing on anything.
I had my pre-op anaesthetic appointment today and when he asked why I was having a CS (I have epilepsy and a heart condition) he clearly wasn't impressed. He kept probing and basically made me justify myself and the decision - he made me feel like I was a naughty child being 'spoken to' by my parents - it was awful. He didn't try and hide the fact that he didn't think it was a 'good enough reason' and he made me feel very uncomfortable.
I don't understand it??
Why are they so concerned and obviously against me having one?
What's it got to do with them??
Has anyone else came across this kind of attitude from other members of the medical team??
The consultant I had on the day of my cs was brilliant and happily confirmed that a vag birth was really no cheaper than a cs as so many vag birthians have lots of after care.
She also said "forceps and ventouse don't grow on trees"
And when I jokingly said that women have been giving birth under trees for thousands of years she said "babies have been dying under trees for thousands of years but nobody mentions that"
Now don't get all upset.... I'm only quoting!
I had the opposite problem - in retrospect should have gone for ELCS (ended up with emergency), but was persuaded by the happy midwives to go for VBAC.
I was in hospital for a while before, but home in less than 24 hours after my c-section, breastfeeding fine, happy to drive after 2 weeks (although I think they did a rubbish job of sewing me up compared to my first EMCS..).
What cost the NHS more in my case was pushing me for a VBAC, so I spent 2 days in hospital before the CS with various people trying to persuade my body to play ball. If I'd gone straight to ELCS I would have been much cheaper.
diamondlizard Sun 16-Mar-14 23:05:22
they probably just want to get the stats down
A cardiologist is unlikely to be too arsed about these stats as its not their department.
Likewise GPs being hostile.
Its only those with a vested interest that are particularly bothered about stats.
I had the opposit problem, my consultant was happy for me to try a vbac but every registrar and mw i met along the way was incredably nervous about it!
Anyway i had an elcs in the end, had no problems bf, we bf in recovery although ds would have liked some sooner but i had problems with the spinal so he had to wait a while.
I had oramorph, diclafenac (sp) after both cs and was ok to bf
Saying that a CS costs the NHS more than a natural birth is a very sweeping statement- what statistics/costings do you have to back this up?
I would suggest that "vaginal birth" is much more specific than "natural birth".
I had an ELCS, stayed 2 nights in post natal ward, lost a relatively small amount of blood during operation. No complications or infection followed. Also I breastfed even though it did take a bit of practice.
By comparison, my good friend was in the local birth centre, only gas & air, ended up in theatre with forceps & huge episiotomy due to back to back baby.
She was in hospital for 5 days, could hardly walk for the next month or two and is having ongoing treatment for incontinence and other issues.
It's just 2 cases, but if you compare our births- I wonder which one comes out as more expensive, in purely financial terms...?
Food for thought.
(this was years ago BTW) The midwife was dead snotty with me when I casually mentioned I would need a section with DC2. Despite me then explaining my gynea consultant said natural birth was a risk after a near disaster with DC1.
I just rolled my eyes at her and waited to see my lovely consultant at 20 weeks who said there was no way I was having a natural birth .
Anyway, all the best for this week writer. Take it easy afterwards and you'll be fine.
they probably just want to get the stats down
mydarling I was speaking theoretically from
evidence based research and in general from my time on a post-labour ward.
Of course you can breastfeed (as long as you're not taking the 'wrong' sort of painkillers) but from experience I found a lot of women who couldn't.
Thanks everyone for your comments - all very interesting.
My Cardiologist was saying that she didn't think the heart condition I have is a risk in natural labour so didn't see why it was being used as one of the reasons for having a CS. I suppose she's entitled to her opinion but I just felt uncomfortable about the way she expressed it.
I completely agree about CS not being the 'easy option' as because like a poster above said, getting the baby out may be 'easier' but the recovery isn't when compared to a problem free VB - I know some VB's can cause horrific injuries though and probably be a worse recovery than a CS!!
Ah well - like I said, my Obstetrician is 100% behind me and that is what's keeping me sane
Birth may be a natural process but you are very lucky if you come out the other side without at least one injury.
I had a traumatic first birth and I am convinced that the constant interruptions from scissor happy, drug denying medwives didn't help the natural flow of my labour. My DS had to be dragged out with forceps as a consequence of "failure to progress".
OP, you do not need to explain your choices to anyone. HCP must learn to keep their unsolicited comments to themselves.
What's a cardiologist doing commenting anyway, beyond saying procedure X will/won't impact on any heart problem you may have?
Next it'll be the Finance Director at your work - stick to what you know Mr/s and nose out
Honestly, in many cases if you are talking consultants I think it is 'consultant superiority complex' rather than a moral position either way. Consultants do like to believe that they are the experts. So they take the snapshot they know and come to an expert decision. Except that they don't acknowledge that there are whole areas that they don't know about and also that they aren't experts in all of them.
You see it in lawyers too (I am one!). Questioning the opinions of other specialisms because it overlaps with theirs in some way and they are 'in the know'.
It is very, very bad practice. Glad your Ob's consultant is on side.
Nursey I think a good many women on here would argue with you on that one.
Every single one of the ladies in my NCT group was butchered by this natural process!
One of them was still receiving hospital care months later.
Of my personal friends I was the only one who had a so called good birth.
I was extremely happy to have the natural process, controlled and mediclised and turned into a beautiful and wonderful calm joyful one!
One where I could come at the baby, relatively fresh and mentally and emotionally calm, physically fine too!
I was also able to establish BF far more easily as most women with sections do, ( not sure where you got that from?!).
It was far far better
Yes the recovery was hard, but if you do your research you can make it easier for yourself.
I would rather have two weeks knowing what to expect, taking it easy...than labour where I could be left in any number of hideous outcomes and possibly damaged down below for life.
I think you have every right to request a section given your problems!
I think women should have a right to chose, it's them going through the process - but that said I think they shouldn't do it because they see it as the 'easy option' because it's not.
Whoever says a c-section is an easy choice is wrong. Don't get me wrong, the getting the baby out is generally easier, but the pain afterwards, not being able to get out of bed, healing, not being able to breastfeed etc etc.
I thing one of the reasons why people are 'against' them is because we're turning a perfectly natural process, that's what giving birth is, into a medical one, and it's something midwife's have tried to combat to give women more holistic care without needless medical intervention.
I would complain to PALS about the cardiologist without a doubt.
He probably just thought I was being a wimp and trying to avoid labour
And would that make his judgement on you OK then?
What if you were a wimp and wanted to avoid labour....
Is it ok to be a wimp? Is that allowed? Is that OK to be scared and want to avoid this process which incurs the most costs when things go wrong and they have to pay out damages?
Its not right, its archaic and it needs to be stamped out.
The highest costs in anything maternity related are the costs paid out when things have gone wrong.
Learn well a good proper or just real
will never put a woman and her child in risk of death just because it is a cheaper solution!!!
REAL professional would not even consider a cheaper option knowing that consequences can damage both
And it is very true what you wrote about being "cheaper" after all
Just a shame that sometimes you can not fix psychological DAMAGE made by the "cheaper" option
I had a 'cheaper' vb, but it wasn't cheaper. The damage caused by my vb had meant physiotherapy, setting a consultant urogynaecoloist, future surgery to fix it, bladder scans, x rays, a 7 night stay in post natal. it would have been cheaper to have had an elcs. I've been on the fence about vb or elcs due months now (I'm 37w) and have opted for a vb, but only just. I'd have no qualms in requesting an elcs this time around. my vb last time was more interventions and more surgery intensive than a cs, as it turned out.
it's none of your cardiologist's business. She is not an obstetrician, after all and will never have witnessed a difficult birth.
Writer, I've seen a few of your posts and had read about your circumstances before. Best of luck!
It's no one's business "how" a baby is born anymore than how a baby is conceived. A successful birth is a healthy baby at the end.
You're going to be a great mother
That sounds awful justtell - I didn't realise that hospitals were allowed to say no? That's really shocking you were treated like that and then had all your problems
When I'd had my Cardiology appointment I got home and the first thing I said to my husband about it was, "I have a feeling she's going to try and stir trouble up about my CS....."
I'm very lucky that my Consultant is a lovely lady, she's been so brilliant and supportive from the very first time I met her. If I didn't have her on my side I think I'd probably feel very vulnerable.
I've been denied cs and believe me you would not wish the worst enemy what I'd went trugh
damaged vagina damaged back, bladder
Years of hell just because my "lovely obstetrician" could not be bothered to make a proper decision!
So writer just ignore those comments
He said to me that it was very rare he saw First time Mothers in his clinic as usually it is women who have had previous traumatic births that have an ELCS...
I just looked at him and said nothing.
He probably just thought I was being a wimp and trying to avoid labour.
The problem is that then you start questioning yourself.....
Writer....sorry to hear you have experienced this.
I had an elcs based on far lesser reasons and was never ever made to feel like I had to justify my choice to any of the medical staff I was saw.
Best of look for next week
My Obstetrician gave me two options for my birth:
1) Have an ELCS
2) Be booked in for a set date to attend the hospital where they would induce me with an epidural already in place and see how things progress. She said she would put a time limit on the labour and that if I hadn't given birth in 'X' amount of hours they'd take me for a CS anyway.
Mr and DH spoke about it quite a lot and researched into the success rates of vaginal birth occurring with Option 2 and decided that Option 1 was best for us.
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