Baby with tongue tie - any experiences?

(172 Posts)
Sparkeleigh Wed 06-Nov-13 12:00:00

My baby has been diagnosed with a tongue tie. He wouldn't bf at all on hospital unless the midwives squished my boob and shoved him into it and they were concerned about him not feeding so eventually I gave him formula to get home.

Since then my milk has come in and I've been expressing. I saw a Lll leader yesterday who diagnosed tongue tie, and said clipping it could improve how he feeds.

Does anyone have experience with a baby with tongue tie and did you get it clipped?

My DH feels that if it's just to make our lives easier and get more sleep it's a bit selfish to put him through it. He's been feeding and changing DS at night while I express but I'm worried at how practical this will be when his paternity leave is over.

I don't know what to do, it seems easier to do it now when he's only a week old than later and I'd really like to breastfeed him, even if that is a bit selfish. I've tried nipple shields and he seems to be able to feed through those but they're so fiddly and need constantly sterilised they're not practical for all feeds.

Thanks to anyone who read that essay!

sheeplikessleep Wed 06-Nov-13 12:10:16

Have you googled about it? Sorry can't write much as ds3 asleep on me an I'm not good at 1handed typing!

Firstly, tongue tie can cause later problems with speech. Ven things like licking an ice cream can be difficult. It's. much bigger deal when older - general anaesthetic.

Secondly, it is a very quick procedure on young baby. Their rev endings ar much more underdeveloped than an adults.

Ds3 was tongue tied, snipped at 2 weeks old. He was out of th room for les than 5 minutes and whilst crying as he was carried back down corridor, he stopped crying as soon as he got back in theoom. I fed him straight away, bit of blood bu not much.

You ar not being selfish in the slightest. Breastfeeding brings so many benefits for your baby.

To me, there aren't any 'cons' of snipping tt. Ther are lots of benefits to baby and breastfeeding being a major one, given you ar so keen.

Please look into it, I really urge you to get it done.

FurryGiraffe Wed 06-Nov-13 12:16:10

My DS had a posterior tongue tie which we had snipped at 10 days. It was quick, he barely cried and feeding improved loads within a few days. He was EBF until he started solids last week.

I know it seems a scary thing to inflict on a newborn but it isn't selfish. Efficient, pain free breast feeding is good for you both. And more sleep is NOT a selfish desire- it's often the difference between enjoying your baby and being a weepy mess! But if you want a selfless reason to snip, then bear in mind tongue tie can cause speech difficulties so you may be saving your baby from that. Honestly, get it snipped- it's really a tiny procedure and can make such a difference.

shelley72 Wed 06-Nov-13 12:22:39

I've had two dds with tongue tie - both snipped, one at three days and one at two days, by our midwife. I didn't really do it for my benefit, they were having problems feeding and the youngest one wasn't putting on weight as she should. It instantly made feeding more efficient, and less painful too.

Oh and if it makes you feel better, dd1 never slept through until she was 3!

TimeIsAnIllusion Wed 06-Nov-13 12:25:08

I won't go into the long details of my experience with my dc - but I do think its best to get it snipped as early as you can. Leaving it may mean your baby can't easily bottle feed, or even eat solids properly. Leaving it could result in a speech impediment too.
Having it snipped in later years could mean needing general anaesthetic.
I would honestly - from my experience of the tongue tie not being dealt with promptly advise you seize the earliest opportunity to get it snipped.
It wasn't my choice to leave it with my dc. It was the way of the nhs locally, current thinking on these matters at the time, delays in getting an appointment after my child had failed to thrive, been switched to bottles - continued to fail to thrive, been out onto solids at 16 weeks - continued to fail to thrive (and endured choking on her food as unable to eat well also due to tongue tie). At 1y my child was about the size of a 6/7m old!
To this day my child (now nealy 10y old) doesn't recognise hunger pangs as hunger was "normal" while unable to eat. I wish the tongue tie had been dealt with when discovered - at birth!

nextphase Wed 06-Nov-13 12:26:30

Both mine TT, snipped around 3 weeks.
made a massive difference to reducing feeding times, and improved weight gain (neither regained birth weight til 6 days after tie divided).

DS1 more fussed about being swaddled than the divide.
DS2 just to laid back to care either way.

I'd do it again in a flash. It is possible they will grow back, but the thought of putting a 3 year old under GA to get it divided would make me get it done before they hit 13 weeks, or whatever the cut off is in your area.

TimeIsAnIllusion Wed 06-Nov-13 12:41:20

My dd had hers cut at 10m in the drs office at the hospital using blunt ended scissors. The dr and 2 students wrapped her tight in a sheet and I had to wait outside the door while they did it.
Usually the cut off point in my area is "when they cut teeth" as they may bite the dr!shock
She was given calpol as pain relief beforehand.
There was a fair bit of blood. Also her sheets were bloodstained the next couple of nights.
It did immediately improve her ability to eat and drink adequately. It wasn't nice but it was necessary to have the procedure.

TimeIsAnIllusion Wed 06-Nov-13 12:42:54

At 10m she did put up a fair fight, and protested a lot!

readysteady Wed 06-Nov-13 12:47:10

Mine clipped at 3 weeks all 3 kids apparently genetic none noticed as so quick done by consultant at hospital changed everything for me and my babies! Honestly get it done smile

colafrosties Wed 06-Nov-13 12:48:54

DS had his tongue tie snipped at 10 days old - he hardly even made a sound so I don't think it hurt him. And he could feed much better afterwards!

Thanks goodness I found out about it early enough as I think I would have given up bf'ing if the problems had gone on any longer.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo Wed 06-Nov-13 12:50:32

My DS had TT and had it snipped in hospital at 15 days old. It really is a very quick operation and the improvement in his feeding afterwards was very good. There was a lactation consultant at the hospital to help the babies feed after their TT had been snipped.

I was told that having a TT snipped before, I think, 4 months of age is relative simple. After that if snipping is needed it much more complex and painful. Breastfeeding a baby when it is going smoothly is so much nicer than expressing so I would really look into your DC having the procedure.

HumphreyCobbler Wed 06-Nov-13 12:53:00

My ds's tt was snipped at four days. I was in the room. He didn't even cry or bleed!

It isn't selfish to want to fix this imvho - it would be sensible. Wanting to breastfeed is a very valid reason as is wanting a bit more sleep smile

DS2 had it snipped at 8 days old, and DS3 at 4 days old. DS3 couldn't latch, had dropped 9% in 3 days, was clearly dehydrated and my nips were cracked and bleeding! After it was snipped he put on a pound in 6 days! The procedure is incredibly low-tech, DS3 didn't even flinch and there was no blood. The midwives helped us get a good latch and have a good feed before we went home, and phoned a couple of weeks later to check how we were doing.
Ask your midwife for a referral and be insistent. Good luck!

isitwineoclockyet Wed 06-Nov-13 12:53:22

My DD (11) has never had hers snipped & I wish she had. If I could go back to the moment the midwife said "Oh look - she's got a tied tongue!" I would have made sure it was done as early as possible. I don't know why it's not done routinely any more, & it has caused her problems, notably with talking and eating. I have also seen some research linking it with dental problems & to some extent she has had those too (the only one of my kids who has)

DD would like it to be done (though she's nervous). I'm a rubbish mum who just hasn't got round to looking into it even though I DO believe it would benefit her.

Fishandjam Wed 06-Nov-13 12:57:59

Both my DC had thick posterior tongue ties. DS's wasn't diagnosed at all by the useless midwives, but his breastfeeding was terrible. He looked like he was latching well but my nipples were raw and bleeding, it was agonising to feed, and he just wasn't getting the milk. He lost loads of weight and became jaundiced, and had to be bottle fed. I cried buckets over how I was failing my baby. I did eventually manage to breastfeed him but it took around 12 weeks of expressing round the clock before his mouth grew big enough to overcome the tie. (Not that we knew it at the time - his tie wasn't diagnosed until he was about 2!) And because of the lack of decent feeding in the early days, my milk supply packed in 6 weeks later.

With DD, I was forewarned - we got her diagnosed and snipped at 3 weeks. It was done by an independent LC/HV, on my kitchen table with DD wrapped in a towel grin, as the waiting list to get it done on the NHS was very long in our area. There was a tiny amount of blood but it soon stopped, and she was feeding immediately after. Really no great drama at all - the various vaccinations were more traumatic! It didn't make an immediate difference but aftera few days she was feeding a lot better. She weaned herself off the boob at 12 months.

So I would be squarely in favour of getting it snipped, and the sooner the better.

mrsyattering Wed 06-Nov-13 13:01:31

Get it cut as soon as possible, it is a quick procedure and my ds fed immediately after, with a huge improvement. He was 10 days old. You don't even have to stay in, over in seconds.
Dd didn't get hers done till she was past 2 years, had load of problems feeding and had to have an anesthetic and a day in hospital.
You are not being selfish, you are being sensible.

3sonsequalschaos Wed 06-Nov-13 13:08:37

my child was 11 weeks old before it was done but so glad we did. Breast feeding was a very dribbly, painful and long-winded affair before and so much better after, he absolutely thrived as he could finally suck properly. I cried when he had it done but it did not seem to bother him much at all! He is 5 now and perfect, no problems although speech a little unclear so I think it would have been a lot worse without the snip.

OpenMindedSceptic Wed 06-Nov-13 13:47:42

DS- posterior tongue tie, snipped at 13 days (iirc). Made absolutely no difference at all.

ProcessYellowC Wed 06-Nov-13 13:50:40

Hi there

Just to share my experience - got DS' tongue tie clipped at 8 weeks - it can take a while to get the referral through...

It only took a second, DS cried more because he was hungry and taken away from me for a minute (he had to be hungry so he'd feed straight afterwards) and after that not one whimper; we were out and about for the rest of the day afterwards and he was a happy baby.

It eventually cleared up a lot of pain that I had been experiencing while feeding him and I went on to feed for another couple of years or so!

I don't see it as selfish, the baby has to work extra hard to mine the milk when they have a tongue tie so it is making life easier for them too. Despite appearances I am sure they appreciate a bit more sleep too!

Good luck whatever you decide.

Thumbwitch Wed 06-Nov-13 14:02:37

OK, not read other responses but here's my experience:

DH has tongue tie and I knew there was a chance that our baby would too.
DS1 was checked by 3 staff who missed it, but he couldn't latch on well at all. About 15h after he was born, the lactation expert came around and manually checked, rather than just visually, and diagnosed partial posterior tongue tie. She showed me the best way to get DS1 to latch (lying down for us) and offered to refer immediately. I wasn't sure, so left it to see how we got on now we had a better latch.
3 days later, the home visiting MW (also a BF expert) watched me feed DS1, saw how hard it still was and made the referral. I was very lucky that the hospital I had DS1 in had no issue with getting tongueties snipped. We saw the paediatrician within the next 2 weeks, and he discussed it with me and explained that as it was only a partial TT, then snipping might not make any difference, but it might. So I said "Do it".

A nurse came in, held DS1 wrapped tightly in a blanket, they gave him a drop of sucrose solution to make him relaxed and a drop of novocaine under his tongue, one snip with surgical scissors and it was all done. Took 5 minutes at most. He didn't even whimper. They gave him back to me to feed, which he did without any sign of distress - and within 2w, the feeding and latch had improved immensely.

DS2 was born in Australia. I suspected he would also have TT and asked for it to be checked immediately - another partial posterior TT. He fed differently but still had a very clicky latch and took in an awful lot of air, so also had reflux. Had the referral sorted immediately but it took 5w to be seen, and so Ds2 had longer to form bad latch habits. Same procedure but without the novocaine; still not even a whimper and DS2 fed straight away with no problem (although he bled a little longer - maybe half an hour instead of the 10 or so mins with DS1).
Again I was very lucky to have had a paed who was willing and able to do the division - friends of mine here have not been so lucky with theirs.

I am actually of the opinion that it should be a standard post natal check, along with eyes, ears and hips and that it should be automatically dealt with if found and the mother is having troubles feeding.

If it is left, and later causes problems with speech or eating, the division is so much worse: a friend of mine's DS had severe TT that wasn't spotted until he was 3 - he was having troubles talking clearly and had grommits and excessive wax in his ears - it was a GA and a week of discomfort to get that TT dealt with.

southerngal Wed 06-Nov-13 14:09:07

Yes - I'd agree with most of the people here. I had my daughters tongue tie snipped at nearly 3 months - much older than most of the babies at the clinic. Just a look at all the women with newborns bleeding nipples was enough to convince me it was the right move.

My baby was feeding well, but the windiness caused by the strange latch made her sick about 10 times a day - and very colic prone and I felt the snip really sorted it out.

I had a great breastfeeding counsellor (at Kings, London) who recommended I do it and sorted it all out for me.

It was a tiny bit upsetting as a process but she has no memory of it at all and was a really early speaker (I mention this due to possible later speech issues). Apparently if you don't get it done for breastfeeding reasons it can be harder to convince doctors to do it later on...

Thumbwitch Wed 06-Nov-13 14:09:44

Have now read the rest of the thread! smile

It is far from selfish to get this done now. It is as much, if not more, for your baby's benefit as yours. It's quick, it's almost painless (babies cry if they get cold, they don't tend to cry for this, it's therefore not really registering on their discomfort scale, let alone pain!) and it saves so many problems later on.

OK, not everyone with TT will have all the problems but they could have speech problems, eating problems, ear problems (apparently excessive wax is linked), and dental problems (because if you can't use your tongue to clean around your teeth, as we all do probably without even thinking about it, you're more likely to get dental caries).

For a 5 minute snip, that doesn't hurt, all those problems could be solved. It's not like circumcision, for goodness' sake! (In case your DH was thinking they were at all similar - they're not even close).

Wingdingdong Wed 06-Nov-13 14:20:01

DS had 65% PTT. He couldn't breastfeed efficiently or bottlefeed at all - I tried expressing due to the extreme pain and to give myself a break for a couple of hours and he just flicked the bottle teat out again, couldn't get a grip at all.

We got the tt snipped at 8w, by which time I'd had mastitis twice. I'd definitely do it earlier next time, it made a huge difference to DS. For a start once he could feed comfortably he didn't get quite as much wind and reflux, and it wasn't taking him as long to feed so he wasn't as frustrated.

ksrwr Wed 06-Nov-13 14:22:29

my dd had tongue tie, i was expecting it as both my mother and brother have it. she had hers snipped at 6 days.
it bled, she cried, but 5 mins later she was fine.
she didn't have problems feeding, and i know from my mum and brother they never had problems with speech or anything else in life, so i didn't have any real reason to get it snipped, but i just wanted to get it done so she would have the risk of any of those problems removed.
the procedure itself took about one second.
but agree with everyone else - the younger the better - the first few days or weeks if you can.
the tt snip isn't for your benefit!! its for the baby's!!

flatmum Wed 06-Nov-13 14:30:49

Yours and DHs concerns are completely normal and understandable, But my advice is do it now while he is tiny and will not be badly affected - honestly.

It's not just issues with feeding that are involved. 2 of my sons had tt and were snipped at 3 weeks and 1 week. One's was so severe (he had a very noticable forked tongue) that they said he would very probably have a speech impedicment and require speech therapy if it was not snipped. Some children have problems eating as well due to not being able to stick their tongue out fully (or at all in my son's case). Teher will be other issues along the way (there always is) and if you have problems with bf or feeding later on it will have been eliminated as a potential factor. If ou don't do it in th efirst few weeks and they later need it addressed for some reason it will the require a general anathetic and hospital stay (no fun at all with a toddler).

I totally understand why you feel bad doing it but I promise you that it was not too traumatic at all. There is a little bit of blood and they may yelp a bit (one of mine did, one didnt cry at all) but the midwives advised me to not feed for awhile so that they were hungry before the (quick) procedure, the theory being that you can then immediately give them a bf which has soothing, anaethetic properties (or a comforting bottle) - so he was crying anyway before they started.

I can honestly say it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be and I now think it is the right thing to do it as early as possible. Good luck!

flatmum Wed 06-Nov-13 14:33:06

It literally takes seconds by the way - you are in and out in a minute.

wimblehorse Wed 06-Nov-13 14:35:53

ds2 had tonguetie. Midwife diagnosed at 13 days after lots of pain and difficulty establishing bf & ds dropping weight. Found a private midwife to snip it - - she came to our house & did it there which we felt would be a lot less stressful (for us and ds) than taking him to hospital as well as quicker - there would have been a 6 week wait. Cost around £250 (north london).
BF improved dramatically & he started gaining weight. It had to be redone about a week later - she hadn't fully divided it first time, but no further complications.

mawbroon Wed 06-Nov-13 14:44:05

Sorry, haven't read whole thread, dashing out to school....

Yes, get it done now. DS1's went undiagnosed until he was 6yo. He suffered a long list of problems relating to his ties (tongue and upper lip) and the high palate which was caused by the tongue tie.

If I had his baby days over again, I would have making an appointment swiftly with a dentist who could laser the tongue and lip ties.

Back in DS1's day, there were no dentists in the UK doing this, now there are two John Roberts at Cote Royd Dental practice in Huddersfield and Malcolm Levinkind in East Finchley.

I cannot stress the importance of having this dealt with properly at this stage. There is much, much more to this than speech and feeding. It can affect the whole body, for the whole of the person's life.

Ask to join the Tongue Tie Babies Support Group on Facebook. There is so much knowledge and experience on there

MrsMarigold Wed 06-Nov-13 14:53:28

I found the Breastfeeding Support Network woman amazing, she referred me and DD had hers cut at around 4 weeks, it made a huge difference and I went on to EBF, the only thing is I can't stop BF now but that is another story.

My DD didn't even cry and no longer has a heart shaped tongue.

MrsMarigold Wed 06-Nov-13 14:54:43

We're in London and they did it at the Royal Free.

poshme Wed 06-Nov-13 14:58:20

Both my DDs had TT. DD1 not noticed till 12 days old, snipped 10 days later- she cried briefly and then fed- much better.
DD2 was diagnosed straight away- I asked specifically. Snipped at 1 day old- she was asleep and stayed asleep through the snip.

alyant79 Wed 06-Nov-13 15:40:10

my DD had tongue tie, but due to various reasons - mostly that TT wasn't recognised in my area she didn't actually get properly diagnosed and dealt with until around 10 weeks.
First time the registered practitioner didn't cut it all, so she had to come back a week later and re-do it. After that all the problems with slow weight gain, dropping centiles, constant feeding and excruciatingly sore nipples vanished, just like magic.

I wish i'd chased it up when it was first mentioned at the breastfeeding clinic (i was there because of the pain) when she was 2 weeks old, before the weight loss started.

By the way, we had to take her to a paediatrician due to her slow gain in weight - he said not to bother with b'feeding and just put her straight onto formula, and that tongue tie is a myth!! It was only due to my persistence that we got the TT issue sorted in the end.
She weaned herself off the boob when she was just over one.
She's 2 now and speaking clear as anything

Byebyebucket Wed 06-Nov-13 15:50:21

My son had it done at six weeks .... It was a split second job and feeding was great after that and no more mastitis for me !!! smilesmilesmile Definitely do it .... There is nothing controversial about it ... Used to be routinely done with midwife after birth and now en vogue again ... Leaving it could result in speech problems and an eventual procedure but under general ! Good luck ....

milkybarsrus Wed 06-Nov-13 16:29:30

My last baby had a tongue tie, I didn't notice it and would have presumed a midwife or paediatrician would have spotted it whilst I was in hospital??? Well, he just couldn't latch on, screamed the place down as he was hungry, I was told it was me being to tense, then a home visit from a lovely hv immediately asked me to try and feed him, straight away she said he's got a tt! She made a referral, six months waiting list at the time (7 years ago), fat lot of good that is. So went private and paid £500 at kings hospital, never spent so much money so quickly in all my life. Job done in seconds, latched on immediately after. Never looked back. Do it!

milkybarsrus Wed 06-Nov-13 16:32:04

I was told by the dr who done the 'procedure' at kings that midwives years ago did it as routine with their thumbnail straight after birth, that's how thin the membrane is! But I'm not for one second suggesting that anyone DIY! Just trying to point out how easy it is.

goodbyeyellowbrickroad Wed 06-Nov-13 16:39:29

After us noticing his TT at birth our DS had it revised at 8 weeks old at Kings in London. It was done and he was feeding in the space of 5 minutes. It was absolutely the right thing for us to do and I'm still breastfeeding DS at 16 months which I don't think I'd be doing if we hadn't gone ahead with the procedure.

mawbroon Wed 06-Nov-13 16:39:38

It's a bit misleading to say it is that simple. A submucousal posterior tie could not be revised with a fingernail, but yes, a thin anterior tie could.

millie19 Wed 06-Nov-13 16:50:21

My DD had a severe tongue tie and was bf. we really struggled with bf-ing for the first 6 weeks (feeds would take up to 1.5hours and she wasn't putting on much weight). Eventually after a brilliant HV and Dr referral we went to the tongue tie clinic at King's Hospital (we live in Herts so it wasn't too far to go. I believe there are also clinics in Southampton and I think Edinburgh - this was back in 2007 and I know it's much more commonly diagnosed now). We went down on a Weds afternoon and had to not feed her so she was hungry after the tt was snipped. The consultant running the clinic (it was an NHS one led by a private consultant) had one assistant. The babies were put into a queue (by age I seem to recall) with youngest first. It took less than 30 seconds to do from the minute I laid her on the bed to the snip. She cried for max 30 seconds and then fed straight away and fed really well. There was a small amount of blood. She was checked after her feed again and then we were sent home. It changed things for ALL of us - DD fed really well for the first time in 6 weeks, she put weight on and I continued to bf until she was a year quite happily. And I stopped worrying and it all took less than a minute. I would definitely do it again (my DS didn't have one), my cousins eldest had one and she had his sorted quickly and my sister's youngest did too. Genetics for you!!! Good luck & don't worry about it, it will make things better for all of you.

rockybalboa Wed 06-Nov-13 17:41:47

No cons here either. My nipples were mega sore due to dS3's posterior TT and even nipple shields didn't help. Definitely worth doing.

LlamaAndOwl Wed 06-Nov-13 17:45:17

My daughter had a posterior tongue tie, diagnosed by the health visitor at 2 weeks and snipped at NHS clinic at 4 weeks. Took seconds, she didn't cry and fed straight afterwards. Feeds have been much quicker since and she is far less windy too - think the tongue tie meant she was taking in a lot of air when feeding.

Mondaybaby Wed 06-Nov-13 17:51:41

My dd had a TT. I had the most terrible time feeding her and she didn't regain her birth weight until she was 3 weeks old. She didn't gain much after that until she had her TT snipped at 7 weeks old. The TT was diagnosed by a Midwife Lactation Consultant/Infant Feeding Co-ordinator although an NCT volunteer bf suggested it as a possibility based on my description of the problems I was having. My dd was refered to Mr Patel's TT clinic at Kings College Hospital. This clinic is amazing and Mr Patel (a consultant paediatric surgeon) spent time talking to everyone explaining about TT and how they affect feeding/speaking etc. More information is in this article
I was very nervous because I was full of pregnancy hormones and exhausted and on my own. But the actual procedure was over in a minute and my dd was feeding immediately afterwards and gave me a lovely smile as if to tell me I had done the right thing. I honestly don't believe she was distressed at all. Probably the very bright lights in the room and being tightly swaddled bothered her more than the actual snip.
I think my dd's TT was quite bad as her tongue was a very odd shape before she had the snip. It looked much more normal immediately afterwards.
I would recommend you do do it as it can only help with bf and it is easier done when they are tiny than later.
If you are in London, try to get a referral to Kings. They have weekly (Tuesday pm, I believe) TT clinics. Your GP or a specialist midwife or HV can make the referral.

I work in a maternity hospital and recommend you get it done, we see babies tongue ties snipped every day, we won't do it if its mild and not affecting feeding but yours sounds like it defo needs snipping, it takes seconds, we swaddle baby then snip the TT, baby may cry breifly, there's hardly ever blood, then back to mum for cuddle and all done,
It's not selfish, it will be good for you both, hope this puts your mind at ease

Rubena Wed 06-Nov-13 18:18:33

dd had tongue tie. I suspected due to awful feeding, HV dismissed, finally went to hospital myself, consultant right away said yes and snipped it - would have been fine but feeding already on the way out at 4 weeks. Crap HV. Don't wait for referral if it's bad feeding, go straight to get it snipped pronto.

vanillamum Wed 06-Nov-13 18:28:21

My ds3 had a small tongue tie and fed well however by age two and a half- three it had started to affect his speech-he was reluctant to speak because he knew he couldn't get the words out right. He had to have an operation when he was three so we had the tongue tie snipped then and it was amazing-when he came home from hospital it was like someone had turned the volume switch up!All these words came tumbling out and it was like he had been holding back speaking. I regret not insisting it was done when he was a baby and I was told it was only minor. Have it done now you are not being selfish.

mawbroon Wed 06-Nov-13 18:38:06

Phrases like "small" or "mild" tie are often bandied about regarding tongue tie. In most cases, the HCP will be talking about the appearance of the tie.

The appearance of the tie is irrelevant it is the function that is important.

readysteady Wed 06-Nov-13 18:51:06

Good point maw broom

I agree with you! No doctor noticed my children in hospital even though I did. The lactation nurse said if their was one it was mild! I could see and feel it! These "experts" missed it the consultant I saw said it was a severe tie! Mild my arse!

working9while5 Wed 06-Nov-13 18:51:18

Both of mine had it.

Ds2 had dropped from 91st centile at birth to 0.4 at 20 weeks. I'd been saying it was t/t to HV since 12 weeks. Division done at 20 weeks after 8 weeks of no weight gain. Like, literally, none.

Gained 18oz in one week after cut.

Valid point Mawbroon but we have picked up tongue ties when doing the baby medical and parents haven't noticed and say feeding is going fine so they don't want it snipped, so we always listen to mums as they know best about how feeding is going, IME it's harder to breast feed with a tongue tie than it is to bottle feed because of the different ways the tongue is used

perfectstorm Wed 06-Nov-13 19:33:47

Some people with tongue tie can't lick lollies or ice creams, have speech problems... and sexual limitations. Various sexual acts involve tongues, not least kissing. It can also cause orthodontal problems as the jaw doesn't develop properly due to muscle underuse. It also causes colic and reflux in lots of babies as they inhale air with the milk, as they can't latch.

DS was snipped, and my first question at my booking appointment was, "What is the policy in this Trust for identifying and treating tonge-tie"? My old one had a leave-nature-alone policy which was very outdated - NICE no longer support it. Thankfully here they check and then they snip. DS was cut at 4 months by Mervyn Griffiths (who wrote the UNICEF guidelines) as nobody local could do it and the godawful lactation consultant messed up at 4 days - long, miserable and infuriating (she never acknowledged her error, just took the money and told me to keep trying to bf an impossible-to-feed baby). Best parenting decision ever IMO, to get him properly snipped. He was so much comfier when gulping less air down.

Standingonlego Wed 06-Nov-13 19:40:11

DS1 had TT snipped at 7 weeks. I had managed with nipple shields etc at start but it got harder. A big DO IT from is quick, and it made a HUGE difference to both him and me for BF. We carried on up to 10 months. Do not hesitate, resounding yes from mumsnet folk smile

perfectstorm Wed 06-Nov-13 19:40:25

My DH feels that if it's just to make our lives easier and get more sleep it's a bit selfish to put him through it.

Bluntly, your DH isn't the one having to express, nor even clean bottles and do all the feeding when he's back at work. If you get the tie sorted, you're likelier to successfully breastfeed, which is very much in your baby's interests. And oral development isn't as supported by bottle feeding as it is breast - expressing is an improvement on formula, definitely, but not as good as breastfeeding for a range of reasons. I expressed as DS was never able to feed in any sustained way - gave up trying at 5 months - so I also know the workload involved, which increases enormously as the baby grows - they eat litres of milk a day by the time they're 6 months, which you have to extract and then give them. Your DH does not have the right to call it selfish for you to want to cut out an uncomfortable, boring and labour intensive process he can't possibly do himself. Especially as that would be time and energy ideally spent in playing with your baby!

mawbroon Wed 06-Nov-13 19:44:00

Honeybee, sure, mums know best about how feeding is going, but they are not all clued up on the far reaching effects that untreated ties can have.

There is way more to it than feeding and speech. DS1 is undergoing early orthodontic treatment to correct the distortion in his orofacial structure caused by his tongue tie. It is costing us ££££ (NHS are not interested) and could have been corrected or at least minimised by having it revised when he was a baby.

Standingonlego Wed 06-Nov-13 19:44:36

Perfect storm - after a awful failed referral process (grinur consultant doesn't like doing them you know said the PA) we struck lucky and got a name. Mr Griffiths! 300m round trip to Southampton, a truly wonderful man. Cried all over him when he said i can do it right now, it will make a difference, so glad you are here. DS now 7 and reading this over my shoulder. BF well. weaned great and speech ace. He recommended me to my local baby cafe, to help me reestablish direct to breast. OP - DO IT

Standingonlego Wed 06-Nov-13 19:46:14

Not selfish at all...DH talking nonsense babies interest 100% now for BF and for the future for all the good reasons outlined by all responders.

EugenesAxe Wed 06-Nov-13 19:47:56

No I had it done with DD and found it to be nothing at all in the trauma stakes. I am a very down to earth person though. They advised it's best not to watch (I guess in case the image stays with you) so off I went and I had barely sat down before she was brought out. Don't remember any blood or anything like that.

I would have it done as sore nipples are a bitch and I heard also it can have an impact on speech. It's not selfish at all.

Standingonlego Wed 06-Nov-13 19:53:49

It really does only take seconds. It sounds scary, but it was fine. Had far more tears cutting toenails grin. all done and dusted in a couple of minutes.

nicola1982 Wed 06-Nov-13 19:54:18

My DD2 had her tongue tie cut at 14 days after having a similar experience to FishandJam. I had massive problems breastfeeding - bleeding nipples, mastitis, feeding for several hours at a time, underweight baby and couldn't work out what the problem was.
DD2 checked by doctors and midwives who all missed the tongue tie. It was at 12 days that I spotted it at home and took her to A and E as GP wouldn't see her without a birth certificate. Somehow we hadn't got around to that 12 days post birth! We had to supplement with formula as weight loss was over 10% of birth weight. It was a very emotional time; I felt pretty useless that I was unable to feed her the way I had planned to and was exhausted from the constant attempts to feed. The cut was done under general anaesthetic two days later which was quite scary but the improvement was amazing and she put on 3ozs within 24hrs. I was able to continue breastfeeding but had to pump for a few weeks in addition to normal feeds to improve my supply.
It's definitely worth doing.

Ineedanewone Wed 06-Nov-13 19:59:21

My eldest is now an adult, and she has a tongue tie. I remember only too well the pain of latching and the cracked nipples that I endured for months. I did persevere with bf but it was very hard, and I woukd recommend anyone reading this to have the procedure carried out asap. It was never mentioned to me as an option and I just assumed I was doing something 'wrong'.
However her speech and teeth have not been adversely affected, and she has never needed orthodontics.

Ineedanewone Wed 06-Nov-13 20:00:50

Just to say my subsequent children did not have tt, and the difference in feeding them was immeasurable.

Whykickamoocow Wed 06-Nov-13 20:11:17

I'd say get it done. Mine was snipped by the dentist at 13 (I'm now 40). Was done under local anaesthetic. It hurt but not for long. Never adversely affected my speech, and I'm still not sure of why it was done as I was way past it being an issue by then. DS's was done at 2 days. We had proper issues with bf and even by then I had cracked nipples, but it improved a rubbish situation no end. No regrets.

Cakebaker35 Wed 06-Nov-13 20:15:39

My DD's tongue tie went undiagnosed until she was 3 months. We had an awful time bf'ing and when it was finally diagnosed it was thought to be mild but worth doing to aid feeding etc. So we went for it and it was awful, the hospital where we live doesn't snip but cauterises and my poor DD just howled and howled, then she was in pain for a good 10 days afterwards and terribly upset and clingy. She did then bf much better but honestly I would only get a minor tongue tie snipped in future and as early as possible - I do think the earlier you do it the better as my firend's DD had the procedure at 10 days and was fine.

OBface Wed 06-Nov-13 20:36:51

Similar story here, my DD's tongue tie went undiagnosed even after going back to hospital at 5 days old having lost 18% of her birth weight. On discharge a week later it was diagnosed but there was no provision for having it sorted in our local NHS. We ended up going to a private midwife in the next county who snipped it in her living room with minimum fuss/discomfort.

I'd get it done.

Papyrus02 Wed 06-Nov-13 21:01:09

I echo all that has been said by other posters. Both my dd had TT. DD1 had hers cut at about 10 days. She barely stirred. Youngest had hers done at about 18 days and she did scream like a banshee for a moment, but no bleeding and she was fine within minutes.

The change to breast feeding was brilliant. Had been incredibly painful. I'd get it done if I was you. Research on the internet. Mr Griffiths at Southampton hospital has been mentioned. Google him and you'll find lots of info.

Fishandjam Wed 06-Nov-13 21:08:25

OP, where are you based? If near Cambs I can give you my LC's contact details.

NichyNoo Wed 06-Nov-13 21:08:26

DS2 was snipped at 2 days old in hospital (not in UK). Took about 3 minutes, he cried for about 30 seconds, tiny bit of blood.

seafoodudon Wed 06-Nov-13 21:17:46

Apologies, not read whole thread so may have already been said. I completely agree with the consensus that getting it cut is a good thing. I would add that there might be massive waiting lists on NHS (in Manchester I was told 8 weeks + as we weren't urgent because I was breast feeding and baby putting on weight - apparently the fact that I was bleeding profusely and trying to explain that I couldn't keep it up due to the pain didn't qualify us as being a priority). We went privately which cost around £100 and was booked in for the next day. You are fab to be expressing, but I knew I would never keep up expressing for 8 weeks.

abigboydidit Wed 06-Nov-13 21:20:57

DS latched on with no issues but I was left with nipples like new lipsticks. In the end an older auxiliary nurse suggested tongue tie. Couldn't stick his tongue out and looked like a heart shape when he was crying. Doc said they wouldn't snip it but we insisted and it was cut when he was 6 days old. My milk came in the next day! He didn't even flinch getting it done.

DD felt really uncomfortable when feeding. Hard to describe but just felt wrong. Infant feeding nurse said it was a posterior tongue tie and offered to snip it which we accepted. She was only a day old I think. Immediately feeding became more comfortable.

Standingonlego Wed 06-Nov-13 21:36:12

Oh yes...go private for speed...we faffed around sorting out with axa and stuff (adding on new baby) and it turned out was only #150. That was 7 years ago with Mr Griffiths in Southampton, no doubt some inflation in price now but worth every penny.

Uneasypeasy Wed 06-Nov-13 21:39:09

My DD had a PTT. Bf was incredibly painful and she had to feed very frequently. She struggled to regain her birth weight and was jaundiced. I literally ran around everywhere looking for advice, but kept being told the latch looked fine and positioning was good etc. I finally figured I was just rubbish at bf! I went to my HV 6 week check and the HV was shocked when I told her how much pain I was in and suggested TT, because one of her DCs had one!

She referred me to a lactation nurse, who confirmed the PTT & high palate and referred us for the revision when DD was 7 weeks, we had the revision done at 10 weeks (the lactation nurse put me on a painkiller regime so I could continue bf while we waited!). We went to Mr Griffiths clinic at Southampton and it was the best thing we did, they talked us through everything and then let us decide if we still wanted to go ahead, which we did. The procedure was very quick, DD didn't seem to notice it had happened and bled very little. The first latch on afterwards was a revelation! It took some time for her to learn to get it right every time (rather than mashing me with her gums!), but she's 9 mths now and were still bf.

It's certainly not selfish on your part to have it done, quite the opposite! As others have said, there are very few nerves around that area and from my experience, DD was not bothered by the procedure, but certainly benefitted from the results. Good luck OP.

PolkadotRosa Wed 06-Nov-13 21:40:33

Hello sparkeleigh My baby had a posterior tongue tie. We too were in two minds about getting it done, but I am so glad we did. It made such a difference, immediately after he fed beautifully and the toe-curling pain I'd been enduring vanished. It was so quick, he cried for a second and after feeding made coo-ing and gurgling sounds that he'd never ever made before. So absolutely no regrets here. I'm sure now that my DD had a tongue-tie too, but it was never identified (not the same level of BF support when home) and I had no idea then about TT and how feeding etc is affected but reading up on it since it all fits.
Hope that helps. And congrats!

BonaDea Wed 06-Nov-13 21:42:00

Get the tongue tie snipped. Your baby will not remember anything about it and it will allow you to get on with feeding in peace.

Your DH is being an idiot.

missymum Wed 06-Nov-13 21:43:46

Dd2 had Tt and I had it snipped at 7 days... Am also an ex h/v and have enough experience of Tt babies to know that there is rarely any benefit to leaving it be.. It's not possible to predict if your baby will go on to develop speech problems but in my humble opinion it's such a brief simple procedure it's better to have it divided in most cases. Have never known a single parent regret the decision .

I actually work for the same trust as mr griffiths, he is indeed a lovely man! should be one in every hospital! ...interestingly (is that even a word?!) I see both sides at work and the midwives are much keener to get the tongue ties cut than the paediatricians but if you want it done they will do it

LongTailedTit Wed 06-Nov-13 22:29:43

I definitely recommend getting it snipped, ASAP, and follow up appointments too. Tongue ties can regrow!

DS had both front and back ties, both severely restricting his tongue movement. He was fed on formula and expressed BM for his first month as he simply couldn't latch onto boob, and it was v painful.

His front tie was snipped at 1wo, and both the re-grown front tie and a posterior tie were snipped at 4wo. Feeding got gradually easier after the 2nd snipping, he then had expressed BM and BF while he learnt to latch, then BF happily until 2yo.

The problems we had establishing feeding definitely contributed to my PND as the first few months feeds were very long, and I couldn't rest between feed attempts as I was expressing. Exhausting.

TT is not always a problem however -
DH, his brother, and his nephew all have tongue ties. DH and BIL were both BF fine, and have no other related issues.
DNephew had awful trouble BFing as the TT wasn't discovered for several months. SIL insisted we had DS checked ASAP due to the trouble they had - otherwise we would have had no idea! Can't thank her enough.
On the other hand -
A friend had TT diagnosed as a child due to speech issues, it was decided not to snip, as an adult she has some speech difficulties and a very pronounced jaw, both apparently due to her TT.

asuwere Wed 06-Nov-13 22:29:45

I was TT as a baby - my mum tried to get it snipped early (she remembers her little brother getting it done in his pram as a baby) but at the time, it wasn't considered the done thing. Never effected my feeding in any way (bf for 6months). I then got it done at 3yrs - was under a GA which I still remember but I still can't stick my tongue out! I've never had any problems though.

DS1 was very slightly TT but he burst it himself at about 6 weeks while he was poking in his mouth! DD1 and DD2 are both TT, I chose not to do anything about it. I bf all of them for over a year each with no problems and none of them have had any speech problems.

It's difficult to know what is right. DD1 had an op as a baby and it was purely cosmetic and I felt very guilty about it but I think it was the right thing to do. You'll never know for sure as you can't compare it to anything else, it's the same as any other decision I guess, you just have to do what you think is right smile

pelhamgrenville Wed 06-Nov-13 22:31:32

Definitely get it done! All health professionals missed my middle son's tongue tie, and we only got referred when I pointed it out at 6 months to the health visitor. Went to this fantastic guy in Margate hospital who said 'Yes that's a tongue tie alright', turned round, turned back to me and said 'ok, you can go now.' 'Aren't you going to operate on it?' asks dozy me, and he said 'I just have' at which point I noticed the scissors! Not a peep from my son!

Sparkeleigh Wed 06-Nov-13 22:36:50

Thank you everyone for your replies, it's great to hear of so many good experiences, I didn't expect it to be so overwhelmingly in favour.

DH and I just want what's best for DS, neither of us had heard of tongue tie before this and the cure sounds a bit cruel at first.

I contacted breastfeeding support at my GP and they're referring us to the breastfeeding coordinator at the hospital he was born at. She'll be able to examine it and refer us onto a surgeon.

Thanks again for the replies!

LongTailedTit Wed 06-Nov-13 23:00:44

Just so you know, at that age private lactation consultants are licensed and able to do the snip at your home.

We paid £100 or so to have it done at home at 1wo, our neighbour had to wait over 6wks for a hospital appointment for the exact same procedure on her DS born a week after ours.

She did the follow up appointments at home too. All paperwork above board, signed in red book, copies sent to GP and HVs.

If you are able to consider the cost and have someone qualified in your area, I really think the quicker you get it done the better, tho obv free at hospital within a week would be great!

Good luck getting it sorted!

Bue Wed 06-Nov-13 23:14:51

OP if you are looking at a long wait time, I would recommend finding a practitioner who can divide it at home for you. They are all now listed on the Association of Tongue Tie Practitioners website.

perfectstorm Thu 07-Nov-13 00:07:09

My private lactation consultant snipped the thin front part and totally left the thick back. This meant weeks on end of pain for us both and eventual failure to bf.

Mervyn Griffiths in Southampton takes a cheque for £100 if your GP refers you directly, then tries to claim via your Trust for NHS funding. Our Trust paid so we were sent back our cheque, and it cost us nothing.

They told me at his clinic that we were not the first people they'd seen whose private lactation consultant had failed to cut the frenulum correctly. And our Trust here have 2 midwives qualified to perform it who can fit any mother and baby in within a week. Definitely worth checking out better options, IMO.

The specialist breastfeeding clinic at the John Radcliffe in Oxford is a great source of advice and support as well.

Thumbwitch Thu 07-Nov-13 01:56:56

It is far from cruel, it is so quick and hardly painful - it's the kindest thing to do for your baby, tbh, because it will probably make life much easier for him to feed etc.

Just one cautionary note, and I was given this advice by another HCP - the laser division can take longer to heal than the simple snip so if you have the choice, snipping might be better. smile

The paediatrician who did DS1's TT was gathering feedback as well - I had to fill in a form after about 2 weeks to say how much difference the division had made (enormous!) and giving the level of TT (minor).
He told me that he'd seen partials snipped making massive differences or making no difference; and severe TT snipped making no difference or making massive differences.

You can't know how much difference it will make until it's done - but NOT doing it will obviously not make any difference, so at least you have the chance of it improving if you have it done (and as you can see from this thread, in the vast majority of cases the difference is very quick, and can be huge). It was a no-brainer from my POV - I was in huge pain, DS1 was taking 2h+ per feed - sooooo worth it.

laughingeyes2013 Thu 07-Nov-13 02:30:14

The earlier the better.

My DS had posterior TT cut at 11 weeks 6 days. I wish it had been diagnosed earlier because he's developed a really bad feeding style and it affected my milk supply.

laughingeyes2013 Thu 07-Nov-13 02:34:23

Ps. It would have been selfish NOT to get it cut as feeding was affected! My DS was so clicky the wind was horrifically painful for him.

His reflux improved almost immediately too. Apparently it can be linked.

You don't neccesarily need a surgeon to snip the TT, there are qualified midwives in the community who can do it

MsJupiterJones Thu 07-Nov-13 07:49:50

Agree earlier the better, DS's was snipped at 11 wks and it was a much harder recovery for him, as well as being very difficult for him to catch up weight-wise without formula.

noramum Thu 07-Nov-13 08:19:24

My DD wasn't snipped as I managed to bf her. But, at 6 months we started BLW and she was unable to move food around her mouth as the tongue couldn't extend far enough.

When she was 9 month we had the tongue tie snipped under general anesthesia.

I would never again wait and believe it will be ok. When they are tiny it is a simple procedure not a full blown hospital theatre one.

mawbroon Thu 07-Nov-13 09:21:51

Laser has many advantages over scissors.

It cauterises as it goes, so less chance of bleeding and a reduced risk of reattachment (still need to do the aftercare).
With a laser, it is done millimetre by millimetre, assessing as they go as opposed to one snip.
Some ties are too deep to be completely released with scissors.

Saying that, it really is more about who has the tool in their hand rather than the actual tool itself.

And I also want to say that all frenectomy providers are not equal. We took DS1 to a paed surgeon who is on the Unicef list and ran the tongue tie clinic here.^ He failed to recognise ds1's posterior tie^. I should have walked at that point, but I was desperate. DS1 was put under GA and the revision was not done properly. Just because they are on a list does not mean they will do a good job.

Just sayin'

MightilyOats Thu 07-Nov-13 10:23:19

Not read all of these, but just wanted to add my experience. DS had tt which was snipped at 10 days (10 days too long as far as my poor nipples were concerned). Was still using nipple shields for a few months as was sore but healed up eventually and due to generous supply DS thrived on it. However, in hindsight, it was always a bit uncomfortable and I think he probably has a lip tie too (his top lip always curled under when he fed) and I don't think that helped matters. So something to ask about if you get your's divided. The op itself was very quick, a quick snip with a pair of nail scissors and then onto the boob. He was a bit grumpy for an hour or two, but fine after that grin Definitely worth having done now, will be a lot more traumatic later.

wamabama Thu 07-Nov-13 10:30:03

My DS (3) has one but they advised I didn't have it clipped because it wasn't that bad. He can get the tip of his tongue out, never affected his feeding and whilst his speech was viewed as being delayed I don't think it was to do with the tongue but was more of a genetic thing and he now talks perfectly and fluently. One MW at the time told me a friend of hers still has hers unclipped in her thirties, I know many people do live quite happily with them (recall someone on either the voice or BGT this year but I don't remember saying he had one, didn't affect his beautiful singing voice!).

Depends on how bad it is though. If it had affected his feeding I would have been more inclined to have it clipped. If it's so bad they can't lift the tongue or stick it out at all then yes, I would have had it clipped. It's best done as early as possible though because later in life it has to be done under general.

sheeplikessleep Thu 07-Nov-13 10:34:33

Reading all of these has made me a bit concerned. Ds3 had his anterior tt snipped at about two weeks old. The midwife told me he was 90% tongue tied.

However, since then, he still hasn't poked his tongue out, there is still a slight 'v' shape at the end of his tongue and he doesn't gape his mouth open. Breast feeding is fine though. I am beginning to wonder if he has a posterior tt too.

He is very windy and putting on weight fine.

I also notice he has an upper lip tie.

He is now 11 weeks old.

I don't really think our hv is that good, so I am tempted to go straight to the doctor. But if it isn't impacting feeding, will they do anything?

Thumbwitch Thu 07-Nov-13 11:41:07

Sheep, DS2 still has a slight V at the tip of his tongue (he's now 13mo) but he can turn his tongue right over in his mouth, and he has an upper lip tie (as did Ds1 until his cousin kicked it out when he was 2). I asked about Ds1's lip tie when his teeth started coming through but the GP told me that they would be unlikely to do anything about it until he was older and it was proven to be causing him problems.
I haven't even asked about DS2's lip tie.

DS2's TT was a partial posterior (snipped at 5w), same as his big brother - I think what I'm trying to say is that sometimes the physical appearance doesn't change even though the tongue has been released, so if he's feeding ok and putting on weight ok, then I doubt they'll do anything but it wouldn't hurt to ASK them to have a look, just so you know.

Halfling Thu 07-Nov-13 11:46:44

DS was diagnosed very late, at 11 months with TT. All through the earlier months, we both struggled with his feeding. I had endless bouts of mastitis and he needed almost 1 hour on and off to finish his feed because of a poor latch. The poor boy was so exhausted at the end of it that he would just invariably go to sleep.

I tried to switch to formula and expressed breast milk but DS never took to the bottle readily and it caused many stomach infections (we were in a disease ridden tropical part of the world during his first year).

So we got his TT snipped at 1 year by a ENT specialist. While it was a minor procedure, the surgeon used general anaesthesia, which meant that DS was knocked out for an hour or so later.

But as soon as he woke up, he was hungry and I offered him my breast. For the first time in his life, he had a proper latch and was able to finish his feed in 10 minutes. I went on to successfully bf him till he was 2.5 years smile

Pizdets Thu 07-Nov-13 11:47:50

Hi OP,

Just another voice added to the consensus that its worth getting it cut. DS had a posterior tongue tie cut at 2 weeks. I wouldn't say the change was instant (had got my hopes up all pain would disappear instantly!) but over the last few weeks (he's now 6 wo) I've seen him start to learn to use his tongue, stick it out more and lift it to the roof of his mouth which is great and after a week or so feeding definitely got better. I'd highly recommend going to some breastfeeding drop-ins once the tie is cut as well as you'll both need to learn to get it right again and I found I got some wonderful support there.

Good luck with your appointment and hope you get it sorted soon - we had about 10 mins of tears and a bit of blood but I think I cried more than he did!

Fishandjam Thu 07-Nov-13 12:20:42

noramum has just jogged my memory - my DS had terrible trouble getting used to solid food. He was hungry for it but could only cope with it if it was pureed smooth. He would gag and vomit on even the smallest lump (and not just a bit of vomit either - he'd bring up everything he'd eaten that was still in his stomach). BLW was a dead loss and he wasn't really able to manage pieces of food until he was about a year old. I've since been advised that his TT probably was the underlying cause of that.

He's fine now and not encountering any problems as a result of the TT - it seems that it's stretched/split on its own - but if I could have saved myself, and him, all that stress, I definitely would have done!

sheeplikessleep Thu 07-Nov-13 13:28:04

Thumb, I've not seen ds3 tongue move that much. Even when he is crying, it's either against the bottom of his mouth or slightly up.

Surely an experienced midwife (she is specialised in tt and does about 4 snips a week) would have checked for posterior tie too (when she snipped it).

Both ds1 and ds2 have been late with their speech, and as ds3 is an August baby, I'm a bit wary of history repeating and him struggling at school as a result.

The dr wants a follow up appointment (he has quite jittery legs, another story!), which is next week. I think I will mention it to her then.

seafoodudon Thu 07-Nov-13 13:28:36

sheep I thought anterior and posterior tt were two variants of the same thing - that posterior just meant that it was a small tt at the back, whereas anterior it came all the way to the front - therefore if you had an anterior tt snipped, it shouldn't be possible to have a posterior one? I may be wrong though?!

sheep thumb I hadn't heard of such a thing as 'lip tie' - I think I have both tt and lt and so had thought these were normal (I wasn't bf and it has never caused me any problems so didn't realise there was anything wrong). However, DD who is 14 months smacked her face on the table recently and I noticed that the thing that I guess is the lip tie was severed. I was wondering about going to the dr, but just presumed that it would heal itself. However, perhaps that was in fact a lip tie being severed and is a good thing?!

Franchini Thu 07-Nov-13 13:29:42

Hi There
My DD was tounge tied. I will let you have our story I hope it helps.

Immediately after birth the midwife helped to latch her on and she was feeding (according to midwife). After an hour or so in recovery I went to the ward and as it was the night after about an hour my husband went home and I was left to my own devices by the midwives.
During the rest of the night I tried to feed my DD and could only get her to latch (or so I thought) on to my left boob. Right boob nipple was slightly inverted. Being a new mum etc didn't ask know there was anything wrong when left nipple was very painful and bleeding. About half way through the night I asked for formula for my DD as she was crying and wouldn't settle and both of us were exhausted.
In the morning I asked for extra help with BF and in fairness I did get lots of help with BF and latching on etc. However, my nipples were v v sore and both bleeding. Anyway, sent home after another night - I was still giving DD a bit of formula and expressing (very painfully).
After going home I was visited by the BF midwife every day as I was still finding it very difficult.
My friend suggested that DD was checked for Tounge tie and I took her to a special BF group where the main MF checked her for TT and said DD was 80%TT!!!
I was very shocked that this had not been checked already.
When DD was 5 days old we went back to the hospital and her TT was snipped. (I was very worried about this as thought it would be painful for her, but she was absolutly fine)
Continued to try BF her but my boobs were so painful by then I resorted to expressing (MWs lent me a fab expressing machine until I bought a medela). Carried on expressing for four months (nightmare). Then DD went on to formula.
I am currently expecting twins and one of the first things I have written on my birthplan is that they are to be checked for TT before I even attempt to feed them!

Good luck

seafoodudon Thu 07-Nov-13 13:30:21

I mean the lip tie and tongue tie have never caused me any problems - not the lack of bf (though that too, but that's for another thread!). The lack of bf was perhaps why it wasn't picked up when I was a baby, and as I didn't have any problems with weaning/speaking/eating ice cream it wasn't ever a 'thing'.

mawbroon Thu 07-Nov-13 13:40:58

It is possible to have anterior and posterior ties. DS1 had the trio of anterior, posterior and a lip tie.

Sheep re the midwife and the posterior tie - you would be amazed at the number of people who are working with tongue tie day in and day out who do not understand about posterior tongue ties.

Actually, this might be a good time to link to this thread where you will see how many people were given bum information by people who you would expect to have the knowledge but don't.

Fishandjam in general, ties do not break/stretch/disappear. Sure, a thin anterior tie could maybe snap, but the vast majority of ties will not. What happens is that the baby/child learns to compensate to accommodate the restricted movement. Compensating has it's downsides. Imagine you had one knee that would not bend. Sure, you could probably manage to walk, but think about all the stress and strain that you would be putting on the rest of your body when doing the compromised movement. The obvious answer would be to get the knee moving the way it should. Same with restricted tongues.

There are many things linked to tongue tie that people have no idea are related to it - TMJ problems, migraines, neck and shoulder pain/stiffness, clicky jaw, dental problems from tongue thrusting, or high palate (also sometimes caused by tongue tie), speech problems, gastric problems, ENT problems to name a few. Oh and the favourite life skill that they all quote - licking an ice cream smile

Thumbwitch Thu 07-Nov-13 13:43:28

The lip tie thing didn't bother me until the boys' teeth started coming through and they were sooo wide apart, they looked like hippo teeth! That's really when I noticed the thick cording going from the tip of the lip over the gum. DS1's top lip looked like a little baby bird beak (family trait from DH's side); DS2's less so but he still has the thick cording. I was worried it might cause problems with the teeth/cleaning the teeth/speech; but if it is a bad lip tie it can also cause latch problems because they can't splay out their top lip properly so it --> shallow latch. Which, thinking about it, might be one of the reasons DS2 is still causing me problems, 13m on...

But it's quite hard to find anyone who will a) take a lip tie seriously and b) do anything about it.

seafoodudon Thu 07-Nov-13 15:57:23

Mawbroon that's really interesting as like I said I think I have a tongue tie and whilst I claimed to never have had any problems I do have a clicky jaw. Might just be coincidence, but who knows, perhaps not...

OhGood Thu 07-Nov-13 15:58:58

Oh God. Lactation consultant diagnosed my DS with slight tongue tie. She said on balance, it wouldn't be necessary to refer him, as he was feeding OK (after a lot of hard work to improve his latch). His tongue is definitely a bit crooked and pulls to one side. Do you think I should get him re-diagnosed on the basis that it might affect his speech later?

HumphreyCobbler Thu 07-Nov-13 15:59:14

I have just realised that my DS has a very marked upper lip tie. I am at a loss as to how to proceed, I would like to have it sorted whilst he is a baby but I am in Wales and cannot see anyone who may be know about this anywhere near us.

fuckwittery Thu 07-Nov-13 16:39:47

I had loads of people tell me no tongue tie, just been diagnosed by a lactation specialist midwife and I luckily aleady knew of a private midwife who did tongue tie division locally and she snipped it the next day, it was a 70 per cent partial TT. Baby is 2 weeks 6 days and we are one week on from the snip, took seconds at home, bled for a few seconds although it wasnt nice having to hold her head. Feeding got worse initially, I wouldn't say its improved yet but giving it time and its interesting to see people on this thread saying it took a couple of weeks for a noticable improvement, she is having to learn to latch on again. Although I was able to feed ok on one side without pain as the latch is not right, she is taking a lot of wind making her v uncomfortable and the MW said as soon as we hit a growth spurt we'll have a nightmare as she's managing ok with an imperfect latch while tiny.

mawbroon Thu 07-Nov-13 17:02:16

Humphrey, we travelled a 400mile round trip to have ds1 revised.

A good frenectomy is worth travelling for.

thebigpotato Thu 07-Nov-13 17:05:16

DS was diagnosed with a posterior tongue tie at 5 weeks and had it snipped by a lactation consultant in London. She checked a couple of weeks' later and said there was no longer a problem. At the time, I said that I thought DS had a tongue tie and she said that "tongue ties are a fad" and didn't check. At the same time I spent a fortune on follow-ups, cranial osteopathy and a "support group" (which was just a way to get an extra £10 out of you while you waited to see the lactation consultant!). I probably spent about £350 at the time.

I then had the hardest seven months of my life! DS still wasn't able to latch on properly so breastfeeding was incredibly painful. I cried most times he fed. He gulped a lot of air when he ate so always threw up most of the feed within ten minutes. So we were feeding and cleaning him up about once an hour.

I kept asking for help - GP, private lactation consultants, nurses, midwives. Everyone said that DS was healthy so there wasn't a problem! I was misdiagnosed with thrush and they told me to use nipple cream, which made sod all difference. I had bruises around my nipples from where he gripped on with his gums.

DS couldn't use a bottle as he couldn't make a seal with his mouth so I had no choice but to continue breastfeeding. The only way I could do it was by taking nurofen regularly and gritting my teeth.

I muddled on until DS got his lower teeth. Then it got worse, as when he latched on his teeth cut into my nipple so I had two sore holes on the underside that he couldn't help but bite into each time. DS could see that he was hurting me and it really upset me as I could see him watching me as he latched on as gently as he could.

That's when I decided enough was enough and made an appointment with Dr Levenkind in London. To cut a long story short, DS still had a tongue tie and a lip tie. The procedure was awful for both DS and us, and there were a lot of tears for the two weeks of follow-up stretches.

But now at 9 months everything is absolutely fine and pain free. My nipples have completely healed and DS no longer throws up 10 times a day. Both of us are a lot happier.

So, don't give up and do get it sorted by someone who knows what they're doing.

BTW, I was able to get part of Dr Levenkind's fees back from my Simplyhealth insurance, whereas they don't cover lactation consultants.

ridingthewave Thu 07-Nov-13 17:40:42


Both my DSs had tongue tie and were both snipped at 3 weeks, my eldest didn't even wake up! Made a HUGE difference to breastfeeding, I was really grateful to the midwife who suggested we had it done - the doctor on the ward said it wouldn't cause any probs but it was agony feeding. It's a shame it's not a standard thing to check for and sort out as early as possible.

NotAQueef Thu 07-Nov-13 17:42:27

I would recommend also getting him checked for lip tie. Ime this often goes hand in hand with tt. Ds had his ptt cut at 15 days but it made not a jot of difference. It is only now that I realise I should probably have had his lip tie revised as he just wasn't able to purse his mouth properly causing lots of damage and pain to my nipples.

NotAQueef Thu 07-Nov-13 17:44:04

Oh and re lp tie revision, thee a couple of places (dental) that do a laser treatment for it so it's minimally invasive

seafoodudon Thu 07-Nov-13 17:44:36

Mr Patrick Sheehan is the go-to guy in Manchester (which depending on where you are in Wales Humphrey might be a not-too-ridiculous trip).

HumphreyCobbler Thu 07-Nov-13 17:56:30

mawbroon I am happy to travel to get it done (I actually bookmarked the very helpful link to the Finchley Dentist you made on the other thread!), I just want someone who can confirm he has an upper lip tie from a position of knowledge. My google searches don't seem that definite a diagnosis esp as feeding is going well except for the air swallowing.

mawbroon Thu 07-Nov-13 18:51:51

Humphrey, it would be worth contacting Dr Levinkind, he was very helpful when I emailed about ds2.

Your other option for lip tie is John Roberts at the Cote Royd Dental Practice in Huddersfield. Last I heard though, he was only doing under 1s and over 6s.

There is a good group on facebook called Tongue Tie Babies Support Group. There is a load of knowledge and experience on there! Just ask to join

HumphreyCobbler Thu 07-Nov-13 19:19:45

thank you so much mawbroon - this is all immensely helpful

BonaDea Thu 07-Nov-13 19:27:03

For what it's worth my lactation consultant and the LC who eventually separated ds's posterior tie recommended dr levekind for lip tie.

mawbroon Thu 07-Nov-13 19:29:18

I just want to add that in most cases of lip tie, there is also a tongue tie - usually posterior. Sure, there will be some out there with a lip tie and no tongue tie, but not many!

ChristmasCrackFox Thu 07-Nov-13 19:37:07

We had our son's tongue tie snipped at four weeks, having been told at the time of his birth that it was a very mild one and unlikely to cause problems. The Dr who snipped the tie said that it was actually pretty severe, and I know myself that breast feeding never really worked for us because we waited so long to address the problem.

One health visitor we saw held the view that every child should be able to lick an ice cream, and she helped speed up our appointment. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

ChristmasCrackFox Thu 07-Nov-13 19:40:21

Forgot to say - the procedure didn't upset him one bit. It was very fast and he immediately latched on for a feed afterwards. At the time I remember being anxious, but actually it really was no big deal.

Sparkeleigh Thu 07-Nov-13 20:02:04

Regarding the lip tie - thanks. The Lll leader checked for this at the time and said he had a mild one that she didn't think would affect feeding so I wasn't too worried about it, but I'll be sure to ask the breastfeeding coordinator about it when we go. No word on an appointment time yet but I'm hoping to hear tomorrow.

I've had to give up on nipple shields for the minute, it was fine when the breastfeeding midwife was here and helping me position him correctly but since then it's gone downhill and one of my nipples is blistered and his nappies changed so I think he wasn't getting enough. I swear the pain is worse than actually giving birth to him.

DS is very windy after feeds and if we're not careful to wind him properly he'll end up spewing up what looks like all he's had so that's miserable for him, I'm wondering now if it's linked to tt or if it's just a baby thing... He's my first so I'm picking it up as I go along!

Sparkeleigh Thu 07-Nov-13 20:02:05

Regarding the lip tie - thanks. The Lll leader checked for this at the time and said he had a mild one that she didn't think would affect feeding so I wasn't too worried about it, but I'll be sure to ask the breastfeeding coordinator about it when we go. No word on an appointment time yet but I'm hoping to hear tomorrow.

I've had to give up on nipple shields for the minute, it was fine when the breastfeeding midwife was here and helping me position him correctly but since then it's gone downhill and one of my nipples is blistered and his nappies changed so I think he wasn't getting enough. I swear the pain is worse than actually giving birth to him.

DS is very windy after feeds and if we're not careful to wind him properly he'll end up spewing up what looks like all he's had so that's miserable for him, I'm wondering now if it's linked to tt or if it's just a baby thing... He's my first so I'm picking it up as I go along!

nextphase Thu 07-Nov-13 20:16:57

Yep, I described bf as worse than labour before tie divided.
SOunds like your going the right way about it - go and find out the info.
MW said DS1 was mild, pead asked if she could go get a colleague to show as it was "really unusual".

There was a campaign somewhere to get tt diagnosed at birth, and have sufficient midwives trained in each hospital so any tie could be snipped before discharge. Loads of support, but can't remember who set it up. Will have a look.

48th Thu 07-Nov-13 20:17:35

Sparkeleigh a slight tt can have a huge impact, you can't assess tongue function by the degree of tt so it is very likely a tt is causing you problems.

48th Thu 07-Nov-13 20:21:58

Sorry didn't read properly!

Lip ties, hmmm speak to your normal dentist too. Can a lip tie cause problems? Yup.
Are they very common in babies who bf perfectly well? Yup.
Is there sufficient research in this area? No.
Should there be more? Yup.
Do private practitioners make claim that are anecdotal rather than backed by recognised research whilst charging plenty? Hmmm, maybe...

perfectstorm Thu 07-Nov-13 20:54:18

I am SO fed up with the way people airily tell bf mothers a slight tie isn't problematic.

DS had a very severe tie so nobody said that to begin with, but after the second division at 4 months they began to. Then the bf clinic at the John Radcliffe actually looked at the nipple shape after a feed they helped latch for, and the tell-tale lipstick shape was still there. They then examined his mouth in detail and found his tongue's growth had been restricted through lack of use - he was actually tied through the tongue itself. They said eating solids would hopefully fix it. When he started eating, he couldn't use his tongue and had to pull food clear with his fingers - then at about 10 months he began to eat normally, and by a year could poke his tongue out. Fully mobile now - as though he'd never had a problem. But it took serious expertise to identify an issue remained, as the frenulum was cut.

If bf is agony then a tie is probably to blame. Just as very tt babies can sometimes feed normally. The expert on the issue is the woman whose nipples are being lacerated. Speaking as someone else who did not need pain relief in labour other than gas and air despite birthing a large baby and sustaining tears that needed stitches, but did to breastfeed.

If it hurts, it's a problem. If the baby can't latch, it's a problem. That should be the diagnostic criteria for feeding, though obviously speech/teeth/sexual function might be different - don't know.

ginzillas Thu 07-Nov-13 21:24:24

Hello. I really feel for you. It's not selfish of you to want to have it snipped now. It's better to get it done the earliest you can.

We had the same problem with DD and before she had the snip at two weeks, I did what you are having to do - constant expressing and using nipple shields. It was a massive faff and exhausting.

I'm not going to lie - taking DD for her little 'operation' was scary (for me) and ever so slightly heart breaking but it was over within seconds, she barely cried about it. And it cured the problem.

We had to do some massage of the wound of the weeks afterwards which was a bit of a faff and not very nice for her. But it's essential to prevent the tongue tie from reforming.

After the snip, breastfeeding almost immediately became easy and lovely, rather than painful and demoralising. She is now 19 months and still happily feeding! No regrets here. Good luck. I hope you get it sorted.

Sparkeleigh Thu 07-Nov-13 21:33:36

Thanks, sorry, I wasn't very clear, he has a lip tie as well as a tongue tie. The lll leader didn't think the lip tie was severe enough to affect feeding, but that the tongue tie is probably responsible. I'll definitely mention it to my dentist too.

It really is great to hear all the experiences, thank you thanks

ginzillas Thu 07-Nov-13 21:35:50

Sparkeleigh I totally understand what you mean about the severity of the pain. It is agony. I would be doubled over in tears during feeds and dreaded every single feed time. My nipples were blistered and bleeding like yours. I would have given up on breastfeeding if I'd had to carry on one more day. Having it snipped changed everything for both of us. I really hope you get it sorted.

GTbaby Thu 07-Nov-13 21:45:04

Spark. I wanted to add that I only wash nipple sheild with hot water and soap. Between feeds and stick pin steriliser when switching it on.

Big yes to getting it snipped.
Did not get ds1, as I ended up ff before realising he was TT. N then gp said to leave it. Really hoping he doesn't have speech issue n end up having to cut it later.

Ds2 I was alot more aware n noticed it sooner got it cut at 5days old. Didn't even cry. Tbh. It's the best thing to do.

Standingonlego Thu 07-Nov-13 22:20:38

spakeleigh - up thread you mention baby is very windy. my TT DS suffered too, his inefficent latch due to the TT meant he took a lot of air as a poor "seal" when feeding. we used infacol to help, once TT divided it did get better smile

Lots of good advice on people to contact to help on this thread - where roughly in the country are you. I am a huge fan of Southampton - but i am a bit biased as he is the expert and had done 10,000 plus.

get thee to an expert, make that phone call tomorrow morning

mawbroon Thu 07-Nov-13 23:03:20

Article from Dr Kotlow which mentions aerophagia which is the swallowing of air.

DS1 used to get a distended stomach like the one in the picture.

Sparkeleigh Fri 08-Nov-13 00:28:23

mawbroom & standingonlego Thanks for those links, he did have a little swollen belly yesterday after I used the shields all day, it was awful, though thankfully not as bad as in that article.

I'm in N.Ireland, I've got some recommendations for dentists who will do the clip but I'd rather go through the hospital when he was born at the minute, though if anyone has any experience of getting it done in N.I, I'd love to hear it.

Somersaults Fri 08-Nov-13 06:49:52

DDs tongue tie was spotted by our midwife within a couple of hours being born and she was two days old when it was snipped. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I agree with the previous poster that it should be routinely looked for in newborns and treated ASAP. I don't remember DD bleeding at all (this doesn't mean she didn't, but if she did it wasn't enough for me to remember it so can't have been that much!). They did it in my room at the hospital with me there and she was more bothered about her arms being swaddled than the actual snip. She fed again immediately with a much improved latch.

Thumbwitch Fri 08-Nov-13 07:07:54

Sparkeleigh - the windiness is more than likely linked to the TT and inefficient latch, yes. DS2 sucked in terrible amounts of air with every feed - he fed like a demon but would then spit back a lot of it, sometimes what appeared to be the whole feed. Throwing it back up never bothered him, it was like silent reflux, but it was heartbreaking to see all that milk being chucked back up, especially as it had hurt so much getting it down him! And it meant he'd be hungry again that much sooner, so I'd have to go through it all again sooner. Of course the more air they suck in, the more chance there is that they will get trapped wind as well, and DS2 used to writhe in apparent agonies with it - massaging his tummy helped but it did get quite distended sometimes.

The TT snip at 5w did cause improvement, but not immediate - the refluxing of his feeds took a while to settle down, as he had to re-learn how to feed and it took a while. The earlier you can get this done, the better. Hope your appt comes through very quickly. smile

Lasvegas Fri 08-Nov-13 09:18:49

I was born with one and it was not noticed until I was around 10 years. It caused speech problems and I had it removed when i was about 10 yrs old under a general day case nd time off school. Had to go to speech therapy which afected confidence and more time off school. If it happened to my dd I would definitely haveitsippedasap

mawbroon Fri 08-Nov-13 11:29:42

Lasvegas, sorry to hear about your experience, I can imagine how it can lead to a lack of confidence.

If anyone is interested in reading more about this, Tongue Tie by Alison Hazelbaker is very interesting. She had her tongue tie revised as an adult so is able to give personal experience as well as professional. She is a lactation consultant and her book is aimed at everyone from the parent who knows nothing about tongue tie to HCPs who wish to learn more.

General anaesthetic has been mentioned a few times on this thread. With laser revision, there is no GA needed, just some local anaesthetic. Having the patient awake allowed the tongue to be assessed as the procedure is carried out which is not possible while the patient is under GA.

This is a good video to demonstrate how laser revision is carried out.

oldclothcat Fri 08-Nov-13 13:26:57

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NutellaWithaSpoon Fri 08-Nov-13 14:15:30

My 3rd son was born with a Tongue Tie. I noticed he had a dip in his tounge making it look a bit snake like and I mentioned it to the paediatrician. She lifted his tongue and said oh yes he's tougue tied and that was the end of the conversation! Not having any experience in this field I mentioned it to my Midwife and HV. They both showed some concerns however as he was BF really well they said it was best to leave it. He is now 2 1/2 and I have mentioned it time and time again. I really think it should have been cut at birth. He could feed however as my older boys both had speach therapy I felt it very likely he would have to have it too and the added tounge tie may not help. The tie is now very noticeable as it seems to have some white scar tissue on it now where perhaps it has been damaged over time. His speach has been delayed (kind of expected that with his brothers history) however I feel he is really is struggling sometimes. All the professionals I spoke to wouldn't even consider cutting it as he could feed. I live in Suffolk and unless I had taken him privately to Norwich for a £150 fee (it wasn't the money, it the doubt at the time it was the right thing to do) there was nothing I could do. He's now entering into Speach Therapy. He's bright and happy but the prediction by HV that it would self tear has well and truly passed and I feel like a bad mother for not having dealt with it.
Without a doubt if you are having to express and bottle feed just to get him to eat then it needs to be cut. Nursing your own baby is such a joyous experience I would hate for you to miss out on it. If you continue to express to give him the best start I fear it will make you tired and stressed at having to keep up a constant supply, not to mention all the steralising you must be doing. Get it cut and with luck you will manage to feed him yourself, and I promise you it's not selfish. Good luck!

MistressDeeCee Fri 08-Nov-13 14:57:42

Both my DP and his sis had tongue tie as babies and yes, they were clipped. My DP is glad his parents made sure this was done early..less chance of speech problems etc

mawbroon Fri 08-Nov-13 15:43:07

Nutella, it is not too late to have your ds's tie dealt with.

Malcolm Levinkind in East Finchley revises tongues and lips with laser, no GA needed.

In fact, it's never too late to have ties dealt with IMO

lookout Fri 08-Nov-13 16:09:31

I waited 5 weeks for a referral to our hospital where the general surgeon clipped it. He didn't get it all and after a further 10 days of agonising pain I finally got it done properly by a private lactation consultant, £80. 6 and a half weeks of absolute agony because I waited for the NHS when I could have done it privately straight away. I was swayed by the hospital thing, thinking it would be safer, easier, better somehow. I was wrong. I know they're not all like that, but it is better to go on a recommendation if you can rather than just blindly trust the hospital.

ElsieMc Fri 08-Nov-13 18:10:05

My GS who lives with me had a tongue tie. Attitudes appear to differ from area to area and where we live, they are very reluctant to snip a tongue tie, preferring to send him to a speech therapist. She would not even recommend a procedure so I asked to be referred to a specialist. He told us the tie was severe and recommended it was cut. My GS had to go into hospital and undergo the procedure under a general anaesthetic. On the ward was a little girl who had failed to thrive due to eating problems. She had a severe tongue tie.

Simple things like him not even being able to enjoy an ice-cream stick in my mind.

My GS had poor speech and although snipping the tongue tie can resolve the problem, by then children have learnt to speak in this particular way and I still feel his speech is a bit "muddy". I do recommend others get this done so much earlier.

minipie Fri 08-Nov-13 19:12:41

I am yet another who would urge you to get it cut, as early as possible.

My DD had a posterior tongue tie, cut at 16 weeks. before it was cut she was very windy and uncomfortable and clearly found BF really difficult (in fact she also struggled with bottles - so bottle feeding isn't necessarily a "solution" to tongue tie). afterwards, feeding was completely different and she was a much happier and more relaxed baby in general.

IME the effects of a posterior tongue tie get worse rather than better as the baby gets older - so although you may find feeding just about ok at the moment, it could get worse if the TT is left unsnipped.

The cut was over in seconds and yes she cried but only for 30 seconds max.

Any future children I will have checked for TT straight after birth and snipped ASAP if they do have it.

Where are you based? I can recommend someone in SW London/surrey area.

minipie Fri 08-Nov-13 19:13:29

Sorry just saw you are in NI.

TwinkleSparkleBling Fri 08-Nov-13 20:07:41

Just been reading this with interest as DD2 was diagnosed with TT at birth. I was told not to worry about it unless it gave us problems feeding. She dropped 13% of birth weight and were re admitted to hospital. I feel really stupid now that I didn't bring this up as a possible reason.

Anyway I'm now wondering if it's possible DD1 may have undiagnosed TT. Is it more likely in siblings?

I've been getting increasingly worried about her speech. At nearly 3 she talks as though she has something in her mouth iyswim. Could this be down to TT? (we did have trouble for the first 6 weeks of b/f). Who would I ask?

nextphase Fri 08-Nov-13 20:36:40

Twinkle, yes, there is a genetic component - both mine were tied.
Sorry, can't answer the rest of your questions tho.

GTbaby Fri 08-Nov-13 20:39:43

Twinkle go see your gp. Look on google images to see what a TT looks like and check out her tongue yourself. It may be obvious.

minipie Fri 08-Nov-13 20:43:48

TT runs in families Twinkle so it's possible she does.

please don't feel stupid - TT is notoriously under diagnosed and/or under treated sad

I'm not sure who would be best to ask about your dd1 - I would say ask your GP but they tend not to know much about the effects of TT beyond breastfeeding. mawbroon might have some ideas if she sees this.

mawbroon Fri 08-Nov-13 20:44:22

Where are you based?

TT is highly hereditary. Both mine have it, but DS2's has not caused anything like the problems that ds1's has.

They got it from DH!!!

surgicalwidow Fri 08-Nov-13 21:21:12

Do it ASAP. The procedure is totally fine - 30 secs in my experience. Honestly, as someone who struggled with a miserable, screamy baby for 8 weeks until a lactation consultant picked it up, you're lucky it has been diagnosed early and should act on it.

So heartened to see how this thread has taken off - midwives and GPs take note!

lookout Fri 08-Nov-13 22:00:46

Twinkle find the facebook Tongue Tie group. They are so helpful and supportive and will be able to help you without any doubt. Otherwise you can try a dentist or GP, but seriously, my first port of call would be the fb group. There are qualified LCs on there who can look at photos that you post and tell you their opinions on the tie.

lookout Fri 08-Nov-13 22:01:21
perfectstorm Fri 08-Nov-13 22:03:39

My DH had such a bad tt he was fed via a spoon from birth. Couldn't latch on a bottle. Had terrible orthodontic problems, and actually nasal problems as well that required operating. So yes, hereditary and why I am so anxious the new baby is checked by someone who knows their arse from their elbow as soon as possible after birth.

mawbroon Fri 08-Nov-13 22:27:16

DS1 is similar perfectstorm.

His ties had caused a narrow high palate and at 7yo his orthodontic problems were becoming apparent. His bottom jaw was becoming bigger than the top one from mouth breathing. His high palate was restricting his nasal passages.

He is undergoing orthodontic treatment just now to widen his palate and this will hopefully avoid the need for extractions when he is a teenager, and he wears headgear at night to draw out his mid-face and open up his nostrils.

Tongue tie really is a whole body and overall health issue.

mawbroon Fri 08-Nov-13 22:29:22

Not as bad as needing spoon fed though, but he was really inefficient at breastfeeding.

I used to complain that he seemed to need feeding all the time, and was assured that "babies do feed all the time", "it's normal" etc etc, but he was sometimes feeding 16hrs out of 24!!

Mayweed15 Sat 09-Nov-13 09:36:19

Have registered especially to say DO IT! My DD was a brilliant and efficient bf-re from day one, so when DS was born and feeding him was excruciating I was sure there was something wrong. The mw said he had a slight TT but nothing that would cause any problems, but by day three I had really badly bleeding nipples and feeds were taking four hours! (he was a really big baby so was very hungry) so I asked the HV to take a look. She said straight away she thought it was very severe and spent twenty minutes on the phone finding me a midwife who could do it ASAP. It was snipped the same day (mw and HV worked late to do it) and it turned out he had no movement at the back of his tongue at all. Feeding was immediately better although it took a week or so for him to fully relearn his latch. But much less windy, faster feeds, more sleep, he barely cried, and it didn't hurt anymore. I would tell anyone who asked to get it done, no question.

Mayweed15 Sat 09-Nov-13 09:42:57

Also, thanks to this thread I've just noticed he's got a bit of a lip tie too, so will ask the GP about that at his six week check!

mawbroon Sat 09-Nov-13 10:12:10

Expect for the lip tie to be dismissed by the GP btw.

Breadandcakes Sat 09-Nov-13 14:34:18

Posterior Tongue tie snipped at 3 months after difficulties feeding. I saw a specialist in Southampton with my dc Mr Griffiths who is very interested in this area.

perfectstorm Sat 09-Nov-13 15:30:02

Mawbroon my MIL had no idea (still doesn't - would hurt her too much) that my DH's problems were fixable, and even avoidable. Our generation are luckier - the internet meant I could research, educate myself and take DS to Southampton and the Oxford breastfeeding clinic. I took DS to Tooth Beary (specialist paediatric dentist) last year as well to ensure his jaw is developing properly and his teeth are unaffected by any of it, and luckily they are. So even from a purely mercenary perspective, ties need addressing, as the long-term outcomes are pretty expensive if you don't. My husband's surgeries have cost the NHS a fortune, and orthodontics cost parents a fortune, too. Plus the pain and suffering - sod lollipops and icecreams, some people can't French kiss or have oral sex, which is not ever mentioned except by knowledgable HCP - and all because babies don't get a tiny snip as newborns.

It's extraordinary that there is such a wide-ranging health issue possible from this, and it's so easily and cheaply and non-traumatically solved at such an early stage. People think breast-feeding is the only concern. It really isn't - though as someone whose son was totally dehydrated to the point it was dangerous, because I had no idea he wasn't latched at all and not getting any milk (that was better than when he had the initial, failed cut, still couldn't feed, and decided chewing the milk out was the best way forward...) it's a pretty bloody enormous concern in its own right. If he'd been effectively and correctly cut in the first few days, then I'd have been spared 8 months attached to a breast pump and an awful lot of time, money and misery.

perfectstorm Sat 09-Nov-13 15:33:09

Oh, and we drove from Cambridgeshire to Southampton, and frankly I'm really tempted to do the same this time from the start - I'm not altogether convinced a local midwife will be able to correctly assess and treat a tie as severe as my husband's and son's appear to have been. (MIL was very motivated to breastfeed and hired a pump for 6 weeks even in the 1970s - yet my husband couldn't latch on a bottle or breast at all and nobody knew about cutting at the time - very much fallen out of favour. Hence the spoon.)

Bubbles1066 Sat 09-Nov-13 17:00:30

My DS had a very bad TT, he couldn't latch at all and even struggled with bottles - a small bottle feed could take over an hour. I paid to get it done privately at 4 weeks as NHS wait was months. It was done by an ENT consultant with just a pair of sterile scissors. Took a second, there was a spot of blood and that was it. He cried for a second and that was it. His bottle feeding improved so much after that (he was mixed fed formula and EBM by then). Definitely do it.

lightahead Sat 09-Nov-13 20:46:57

My DS2 was born with tongue-tie in 2001, he was operated on at 6 months old in hospital. The E.N.T surgeon said that due to major blood vessel in tongue they should not just be snipped. I did bf him for 12 months after seeing bf counsellor who showed me different holding positions. Also to consider possible speech problems if not dealt with.

Helenc19 Sat 09-Nov-13 21:47:34

My DS is now 5 months, he has posterior tongue and lip tie which have not been revised.
When he was born he couldn't latch on, I had a few people check his tongue but no one spotted it. I started expressing which was fine while dp was off work but once he went back I just didn't have the time so was using formula for half of his feeds.
At about 3 weeks old he began to latch on and gradually was able to breastfeed although it was painful and he developed other symptoms associated with tongue tie.
When he was 7 weeks old I had him checked professionally and they recommended to not have his tongue snipped as he had good movement and was gaining weight fine.
Since then feeds are still uncomfortable, sometimes painful.
If it had been spotted at first I would have had it snipped and still might, I would urge you to get it done as soon as possible or at least get it assessed to find out how severe it is.
Yes it Will make your life much easier but that doesn't mean you are being selfish, it will benefit your baby as well.

timeforacuppa Sat 09-Nov-13 22:25:38

Breast feeding my first was absolute agony - I was utterly committed to doing it but I used to cry with the pain when he was feeding. I went from clinic to clinic but they just said I was one of those "unlucky" women who find breastfeeding painful for six LONG months!!

The second was diagnosed within a few hours of being born and was snipped on day 3 (no pain, no hassle) and breastfeeding was a doddle. Still a bit blooming irritated that it was only through number 2 that I realised that the first was massively tongue tied. Saying that, he never had it snipped but now can stick his tongue out and has great communication (he's now 3 years old). I've taken him to see a specialist and he said that most kids work through the tongue tie (ie tongue extends despite the tie) - however, given a choice, I would still snip. It doesn't hurt and lasts forever.

mawbroon Sat 09-Nov-13 22:29:35

It's not too late to have your ds1 revised.

Unrevised TT can cause many problems that you would never imagine were related to TT.

TwinkleSparkleBling Sat 09-Nov-13 22:54:58

Just wanted to say thanks to those who replied. lookout I'm going to look on the fb page now. If it does turn out that DD1 has TT too I'm going to feel really grrrrr.

As it is I'm a bit hmm that the paedatrician that diagnosed DD2 was so non plussed about it. I really would have preferred to have got it sort soon after birth as looking at the posts it does seem to be something that needs sorting rather than just leaving.

Thumbwitch Sat 09-Nov-13 23:08:20

lightahead - I don't know which blood vessel your ENT surgeon was talking about but in most cases, the frenulum is just tight tissue and the bleeding is minimal when snipped - which rather belies the idea that a major blood vessel is being cut, doesn't it?! I fear he was being a touch pompous about it. Or maybe he was talking about your child's specific case. But as you can see if you read this thread, most TT snips do NOT result in major bleeds (if any, in fact)

48th Sat 09-Nov-13 23:54:13

Tbh your basic anterior tt can be nibbled away with a maternal finger nail, beats an ent wait. Maybe the old ways should come back!

Honestly, get it done! It's not selfish at all. I was diagnosed at 11 after years of speech problems and had the snip under GA with a night in hospital. It was sore afterwards but that was it, and I then had lessons to learn how to speak properly. Still can't blow up balloons. I wish I'd been snipped as a baby.

minimalisthoarder Sun 10-Nov-13 09:18:39

DD had a tongue tie at birth. Painful slow BF, no sleep, worries about speech and eating: I googled it and found good info on the WHO website. GP had to refer us to the local hospital (QMC in Nottingham) where there was a paediatric registrar with a special interest in tt. Turned out the GP's DS had TT too, not treated and slow feeder, which helped.

DD was 9 weeks and cried at being held on my lap, snip snip all done, straight to feed her afterwards, hour and a half feeds to half an hour that week, sleep for us both! 15 minute feeds by 6 months (ebf till then). Loved seeing her have fun poking out her tongue after it was done.

Do it do it. Best for both of you. Good luck!

HarryElephante Tue 12-Nov-13 22:06:26

Just to add my twopee. Our little one had a tongue which was snipped at 4 days and again at 11 (or so) days. It was painless and she went on the breast after and didn't cry at all.

My advice is get it done.

Sparkeleigh Mon 09-Dec-13 09:37:29

OP back with an update, thanks to everyone who replied to this flowers it really helped us make the decision.

We decided to wait for the hospital referral and so DS's tongue tie was clipped last week. The interim was made slightly more stressful by my HV insisting he didn't have a tt, so it was great to have this thread to read back on for reassurance!

The clip was very quick and didn't seem to bother him as much as the Dr's fingers in his mouth beforehand. It's made a massive difference already and he's breastfeeding at nearly every feed, even if it's not for the whole feed, and he's discovered he can really stick his tongue out at us grin

We're still learning the ropes of bf at the minute but it's lovely to have 'normal' bf problems instead of a complete inability to do it!

Standingonlego Tue 07-Jan-14 10:10:45

sparkle only just spotted the update. Great news, and glad that all the advice on here reassured you. Hope that you all had a lovely Christmas and start 2014 full of optimism and happiness.

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