Bf a tongue tied 5do - may I have a weep please?

(53 Posts)
bigkidsdidit Fri 28-Jun-13 17:32:31

Hello

I have a lovely 5do boy. Who has a severe tongue tie and jaundice and so we are having some problems. He was 9lb10 at birth so big too.

At the moment I dread him waking sad he doesn't feed long because the jaundice means he sleeps permanently and only feeds 5 mins before falling alseep. This doesn't seem to be a prob for him, as of this morning he'd only lost 2% weight ( like last time I appear to have gallons of milk).

But it is soooo painful sad I am bleeding, bad cracks, I cry every feed. He just can't latch. Tt being snipped next Friday so I am persevering till then. But it's so awful.

I just wanted a moan sad but I would like to check that the blood in the milk won't do him any harm?

stargirl1701 Fri 28-Jun-13 17:43:39

It won't but you need RL help. What has your midwife organised? Do you have an appt to get the tt snipped?

In the short term, here are some ideas to help your nipples:

Hydrogel pads - these will promote healing and keep infection from entering your bloodstream through the crack. They are very soothing from the fridge/ freezer. I got some from the Infant Feeding Specialist at the hospital.

Breast shells - air circulating will help heal your breasts and you can wear these so you don't have to wander around naked.

Nipple shields - these may help you get through a feed.

Paracetamol & ibuprofen - if you need pain relief please take some painkillers.

Lansinoh - this may help lubricate your nipples. Try not to get it on your breast as the baby may slip off the latch.

Have you tried a Biological Nursing hold? DD was tt and I found this the least painful. There are videos on You Tube but your midwife should be able to help.

Get in touch with a bf counsellor on a bf helpline. I found the LLL excellent.

Does your hospital have an Infant Feeding Co-ordinator? Ask your midwife. If so, get in touch.

Is there a bf cafe nearby you could go to?

Congrats on your LO grin

bigkidsdidit Fri 28-Jun-13 17:51:18

Thanks smile

Yes tie getting snipped next Friday. My mw very pro bf and very sympathetic but till its snipped not a lot she can do! I am doing painkillers every 6 h, and a routine of lansinoh, jelonet and clean pad after every feed. Also cooling pads.

My mw said to do biological hold too but I haven't cracked it yet and with a jealous 2yo too it's easier to sit with him while feeding

didireallysaythat Fri 28-Jun-13 17:56:36

Nipple shields, paracetamol and Wimbledon for long feeds. My first was TT, 9-9 and snipped at 2 weeks.

And dare I say that expressing and bottles maybe a stop gap (although not easy to juggle).

bigkidsdidit Fri 28-Jun-13 17:59:36

At least the feeds are short, 5 min max, as he can't stay awake!

I thought nipple shields were not recommended?

stargirl1701 Fri 28-Jun-13 18:19:19

They can cause problems - reduced supply, baby unable to latch without them, etc. But, they can get you through a feed if you know it's a short term thing.

RedKites Fri 28-Jun-13 23:00:00

If you haven't already tried it, you could give an exaggerated latch a go to see if it helps. There's a description in this document - on the 10th page, although the text on the page says it's page 9.

I am not (and can't) advise on the jaundice, but I don't think 5 minute feeds are necessarily a problem - especially if you have a lot of milk, and given the minimal weight loss. My DS2 has generally only ever fed for 5-10 minutes.

bigkidsdidit Fri 28-Jun-13 23:33:44

Thanks, will have a look

DS1 only ever fed for five minutes too, so I'm not worried about that ESP ad weight loss is ok.

DH wants to get in some formula for one bottle a day till the tongue tie is snipped as he hates seeing me crying sad I'm holding out but we will see.

pookamoo Fri 28-Jun-13 23:37:41

I second the nipple shields, as stargirl says, for short term, they can get you through.

Good luck. smile

bigkidsdidit Sat 29-Jun-13 16:43:09

He now can't seem to latch on at all now sad I had to express and use a bottle. I'm so sad about it I can't stop crying sad

stargirl1701 Sat 29-Jun-13 17:28:59

Don't get too down. He will latch again. Which bottles are you using? Have you thought about using a cup? I used a Medela Softcup Feeder I got on Amazon.

6 days till the tt op. You can do this!

bigkidsdidit Sat 29-Jun-13 17:32:16

Thank you for replying, you're very kind. I'm just using the one that came with my aveda pump. At least I have loads of milk, got 3oz in five mins pumping.

It's so stressful. I wish it wasn't so important to me.

stargirl1701 Sat 29-Jun-13 17:47:35

I used the Medela Calma bottles as they require the baby to suck to get milk which mimics the breast. Breastworks bottles are good too. NUK bottles with latex teats, Mimijumi are another option.

I got a cup from the midwife, initially. I then ordered the Medela one from Amazon.

I stopped bf at 3 weeks & restarted at 11 weeks - she did remember how to latch. Try not to stress too much. Is your midwife popping in tomorrow?

CuriosityCola Sat 29-Jun-13 18:32:23

My ds2 (3 weeks today) had a really bad tongue tie. Despite successfully feeding ds1 to a year, by day 2 I was contemplating giving up breastfeeding and generally in a mess. I couldn't get the hang of the cup.

On day 4 I bought some nipple sheilds and the feeds improved immediately. Ds suddenly became a lot more interested in feeding. Having a bad latch from the tongue tie makes feeding very tiring. I had a whole night of him feeding and crying whenever he came off the boob. Then the next day he was like a different baby. He has now had the tongue tie snipped. I'm slowly phasing out the sheilds. He is gaining weight well and never lost any of his birth weight.

Breast sheilds aren't generally recommended, but if it saves breast feeding (and takes away the pain) it is worth it.

Expressing is also a good idea. I just knew that if I got bottles in I would end up ff.

bigkidsdidit Sat 29-Jun-13 20:50:09

Thanks. Can I ask about shields, DH just ran out and bought some. It extended past my nipple by about 2cm and DS just sucked it like a bottle, it was too painful to continue?

Pumped again sad just gave him 50ml. Will try to feed in an hour.

CuriosityCola Sat 29-Jun-13 22:00:55

I have the medela ones. They do extend past the nipple by a small amount. They stick to you better if they are wet. Practice putting it on before you are holding hungry ds. I can now do it one handed, down my top, barely looking!

You invert the shield slightly. Then put your finger over the holes whilst putting it on your nipple. Sometimes it then just pops on easy or I have to wriggle the teat to get it to pull out. Once it is on it will have drawn your nipple (im small boobed so some of my aerola too) into the teat. You will have a small gap between your nipple and the top of the teat. Ds then drinks as though it is a bottle I suppose. The only time it has been a little sore was when I was waiting to heal and when sometimes ds draws too much nipple in. If the nipple reaches the top it gets pulled on the little holes and you get an imprint. I just take him off and start again. Please let me know if this doesn't make sense or you have more questions.

I really feel for you, because it's not the start we have in mind. I felt really upset that something easily treated was so hard to get an appointment for. We even looked into paying a few hundred pound to go private, but it would have taken even longer to get an appointment. It doesn't make sense when the government is spending so much on promoting breastfeeding, to not have the specialists more readily available. Sorry for the rant!

bigkidsdidit Sat 29-Jun-13 23:02:48

Thanks, that's very useful. I just managed to feed, properly, for 20 minutes and for the first time in his little life DS looked milk drunk smile

Will try the shields tomorrow on the other, very very sore breast.

I agree about the tt. I fed DS1 so easily, he just opened his mouth and popped on and I had gallons of milk. Easy peasy. This is so much harder and I didn't realise. DS's tt was identified in the labour room - it could have been cut before we even left hospital!

Still I am pleased that 6 days in still no formula amd I haven't completely fallen apart yet. Mw coming to weigh again tomorrow so fingers crossed.

I really appreciate the help and the sympathising!

CuriosityCola Sun 30-Jun-13 03:22:03

That's brilliant. Hope you continue to have as many successful feeds. Let us know how the weigh in goes.

I followed Kelly's moms advice and fed ds2 every two hours during the day (more if demanded). No longer than 3-4 hours at night. I felt really bad as he wasn't really demanding the milk at first and I was putting off feeds for as long as possible due to the pain. I will just have a cuppa/ shower/ lunch etc. Just 5 more mins. Ds2 would easily have gone 4 hours between feeds before I was using the shields.

catsdogsandbabies Sun 30-Jun-13 03:30:54

Can you get the tie snipped sooner? Privately or call round other places that do it. I was offered a week wait appt but called hosp outside my county and got it done in 2 days. They bill your health authority and no issues, proviso I would have to pay if there were problems with this. i would echo other posters, shields and different holds. I have a 2 yr old too, rugby hold useful so could cuddle toddler on other side! Good luck and warning - after snip 48 hrs feeding was worse then a million times better once he adjusted to his new tongue!

NothingsLeft Sun 30-Jun-13 03:38:11

I feel for you. My DS had a full TT that was noticed in theatre when he popped out. I fed him for SIX weeks before finally getting it snipped.

I found the flipple really helped him latch a bit better, although I had to hold him on or he would just slip off.

bigkidsdidit Sun 30-Jun-13 07:21:53

Thanks - will try the flipple today. No chance I getting tie cut earlier where we are (Scotlad)

Got through the night, fed twice and expressed once. Aching now but have taken ibuprofen and waiting for him to wake up. I found DH's secret formula store which I don't mind, he bought it out of concern for me and would never give it unilaterally

CuriosityCola Sun 30-Jun-13 08:35:50

You are doing really well. Are you attending the Friday clinic in Edinburgh Sick Kids? If so it's easiest to access through the walk in a&e doors at the side of the building.

The procedure only took two seconds and the nurse assisting was amazing. Ds thought about crying and then the nurse said he just needs to dance. Did a wee jig with him, made everyone laugh and he was fine.

pookamoo Mon 01-Jul-13 00:21:31

How did today go, OP?

bigkidsdidit Mon 01-Jul-13 06:54:03

Hi
Thanks for asking smile

We are Getting on ok smile the mw didn't weigh him yesterday but was pleased all his jaundice has gone. He is now awake more than 5 minutes at a time so that's easier with feeding. He still struggles to latch, it takes him about 5 minutes of screaming and bobbing, and te initial 30 seconds is still agonising, but after that it's beginnig to be ok. I wonder if the part of he pain remaining is a result of the tt and the bit that's gone is because my nipples have toughened up?

Still taking ibuprofen every 8 hours as it is still painful, and I've booked DS1 into his Cm all week which makes me feel guilty while I'm at home. But watching telly all day while DS2 struggles is no fun.

Basically, I haven't cried since Saturday! Its still very painful but I now have no doubt we will make it through to Friday.

Thanks so much to you all. Just writing this thread was helpful and a place to vent but you've all been very kind and some of the tips have been ace, especially the flipple.

thanks

bigkidsdidit Mon 01-Jul-13 06:56:33

Oh and cola. Yes sick kids, I'm in Liberton so it's not far. Thanks for the tip smile

SkinnyDecaffGiraffe Mon 01-Jul-13 07:21:57

BigKids- congratulations on your new arrival. I've been lurking on your thread and I'm glad its getting better.

Regarding your DC1 going to the CM- please don't feel guilty. DC 1 needs continuity at the moment and your priority is the new baby and you for now.

I had my Dd1 in nursery full time for a while whilst I got used to DD2 and the guilt almost killed me but it was the right thing to do as I was barely able to care for myself after the babies needs. Really wish I'd just got on with it more matter of factly as everyone told me what I told you but I ignored it and wallowed in my guilt!

All the people who said ah, the second one is so easy , just has to fit in are talking bollocks IMO. It's an adjustment that takes time.

Good luck with the TT correction

NothingsLeft Mon 01-Jul-13 07:57:19

Pleased to hear its more bearable and your little man is doing well smile

CuriosityCola Mon 01-Jul-13 08:22:55

Glad to hear things are going better. Don't feel guilty at your dc being at childminders. If I could send my ds1 somewhere I would ;)

TattooEnvy Mon 01-Jul-13 08:40:34

I had the same problem, when DD2 was born the midwife who checked her over said "oh she's got a slight tongue tie but don't worry, it will stretch"
After two weeks I was crying at every feed as it was so painful and I got so freaked out when she once threw up a load of blood (mine from cracked nipples) but twas scary!
I finally rang a bf support worker who came round to review how I was holding her and on the off chance I mentioned that she apparently had a slight tongue tie.. Don't know why I did as at the time I has no idea it could effect bf. She took one look and within a week it was all sorted.. Was so greatful I got my 1 year old to make her a card!!

Anyway, all my suggestions have been brought up but I just wanted to say hang in there, I remember feeding DD2 straight after she has had it done and crying with relief as it was like I was feeding a different baby, the midwife looked so worried and I had to explain they were happy tears.. Good luck OP smile

bigkidsdidit Mon 01-Jul-13 15:24:55

Thanks. I do need to stop giving DS1 adult emotions, he is 2.5 and has no idea I'm at home and not at work. And he loves the Cm, he cheered when I told him we were going grin

I'm so fed up today. Now he's not jaundiced he's feeding every 90 minutes and it's so wearing dreading the pain and persuading him to latch sad

Roll on Friday!

FridaKarlov Mon 01-Jul-13 16:05:30

Congrats on you new baby. If it helps, I went through pretty much the exact same thing minus the jaundice. I was screaming every time my daughter latched on. What got me through it was expressing and bottle feeding for a week until my nipples healed and the tongue tie was fixed. Then I breastfed again. She's 5 months old now, still breastfeeding and I'm really enjoying it. It WILL get better, you just need to heal up.

I was also furious that the operation to fix the tongue tie is so simple but there was hardly anyone in my area who was trained to perform it- it meant days and days of agony and misery.

LifeOfPee Mon 01-Jul-13 16:34:19

A lactation consultant can visit you at home and divide the TT there and then. Obviously you have to pay, she's a private practitioner, but it could be done tonight or tomorrow.

DS had a TT. I had it snipped, at home, on the evening of day 1 by a LC. Best £180 I've ever spent.

Handsfullandlovingit Mon 01-Jul-13 16:45:37

Oh Bigkids, bless you, poor sausage! So glad to see you've had great advice and things are looking up a bit. Just to say, post snip, you should heal so quickly, if your latch is ok (yes I know it is hard to tell right now). DS had a posterior tongue tie, and feeding was like knives. After a week he was snipped and I could feel the improvement instantly and healed up with a few days. Just to give you hope it will all be ok in the end.

pookamoo Wed 03-Jul-13 00:20:22

bigkids I think you're doing great.

Feeding every 90 minutes is probably about normal anyway for babies about a week old - keep at it and roll on Friday! smile

bigkidsdidit Wed 03-Jul-13 08:24:21

Yes that's what I meant - no longer sleepy and jaundiced, normal feeding has started!

Two things keeping me goig - I'm managing to express quite a lot which is saving my nipples and also means DH can give a bottle at 10pm - last night i got a 5 hour chunk of sleep!

And also he was weighed yesterday and at day 8 was not only back at birth weight but 3oz over, the little porker. So although it's hurting me at least he is gettin enough!

Just two days to go! Counting the hours ...

pookamoo Wed 03-Jul-13 12:00:59

Brilliant news! Have a brew and watch the tennis while you are trapped on the sofa!

CuriosityCola Thu 04-Jul-13 18:19:41

Good news! Hope Friday comes quickly for you.

pookamoo Fri 05-Jul-13 23:11:28

Hope it went well today, OP.

bigkidsdidit Sat 06-Jul-13 14:10:23

It's all going wrong, actually sad the op was very successful and already I can feel a slight improvement. But his latch is still not good and my nipples are so damaged I still have a lot of pain. Combined with this he wants to cluster feed and comfort suck all the time ATM and I just can't let him, it's agony.

So we've given him a couple of formula top ups a day.

I hate it, I promised myself I wouldn't and I am ashamed I caved so easily. I can't stop crying about it, my 2yo keeps asking what's wrong and DH is worried about me and wants to call the mw. Plus I haven some sort of fever where I can't stop shivering. It's not mastitis I don't think.

I'm not depressed I know but I dread him waking up and feel like I've failed him as a mother. I can't even feed him sad

LAF77 Sat 06-Jul-13 19:22:36

Hugs for you bigkuds you haven't failed your DS. You can still bf him. Can you call a helpline or an IBCLC and get someone to come help you with latching?

Mastitis often accompanies severe bf problems so you should call a GP and go on a course of antibiotics for 14 days. 7 days is not enough to clear it up!

Even if you decide you can't carry on bf, you should consider going to a cranial osteopath. If your DS has problems latching, he may have some tension in the head and neck that could use some assistance.

Take care!

NothingsLeft Sat 06-Jul-13 21:11:23

It's so hard with the TT, don't beat yourself up. My nipples were in bits and I got mastitis two weeks in. The shivering was a definite part. Have you got a temperature?

You are bound to feel tearful, it's bloody hard but you are doing brilliantly. Are you taking paracetamol and ibuprofen? I lived on pain relief for about a month with DS. It will help with too if its an infection.

CityDweller Sat 06-Jul-13 21:33:55

I too had mastitis (twice) during first couple of weeks with my tt'ed lo. Shivering was first sign for me - so do seek antibiotics. Or if you catch it in time before it gets really bad you can self-treat using suggestions on kellymom site. That worked for me 2nd time round...

And don't think you caved easily! You've done so well so far and you'll be back to ebf once your ds learns how to use his lovely new tongue!

bigkidsdidit Sat 06-Jul-13 22:14:14

Shivering has mostly stopped, now I have a fever that comes and goes and my back is incredibly painful. Mw coming tomorrow so will ask her, but I have no lumps or red breasts?

pookamoo Sat 06-Jul-13 22:46:08

Sorry to hear you're poorly, it really isn't what you need at all!
Glad the TT has been sorted and as citydweller says, you'll be back at it as soon as you are on the mend. Did you ever decide to give the nipple shields a go? Could save your sanity and help with latch too, lots of mums find their milk supply is absolutely fine, despite the warnings (of which I know you are aware). For me personally, the shields were the difference between feeding DD1 and not, simple as that.

You have not failed your DS, you are doing a wonderful job and keeping on going for him through all these setbacks! Is your family supportive?

Have a hug too. x

NothingsLeft Sun 07-Jul-13 01:25:45

I had no lumps for a few days and the red streaks took a day or so to come out but weren't at the site of the blocked ducts.The fever came and when over three days but was furious (40c) and I was shivery and felt awful, had vomiting and all sorts.

You will need antibiotics if its mastitis. Don't be afraid to take them. You immune system crashes postpartum and the cracked nipples are an open source of infection.it us still very early days and I'm still feeding DS 15 months in. Just do what you can to get through it. The latch will start to improve. Hope you are ok thanks

bigkidsdidit Sun 07-Jul-13 11:15:03

Yup, mastitis. Left breast blocked and lumpy. DS can't get anything out of it and not can I after a whole morning massaging and pumping including in the bath. FFS!

Will go to GP tomorrow.

catsdogsandbabies Sun 07-Jul-13 11:27:51

Ok - when my DS2 TT was snipped he was worse for 48 hours or so. I nearly gave up the day after. He had no idea what to do with his tongue poor chap. But he learnt. He had some formula for that day and the next few days and then things got better. Once you get over the mastitis and he gets more milk as he learns to use his own tongue feeds will space out.
BUT your health is the most important thing so use some formula to rest and recover, feed him now and then and once better you can work on this or not. Formula is not evil! My DS1 is a crazy 2.9 year old healthy, no allergy/asthma testament to that.
With DS1 I got a uterine infection the day after the TT snip and milk supply fell through floor and antibiotics used tainted milk - no more feeding for me and onto bottles. All was fine.
good luck. Remember when they go to school they don't have a sign round their neck says 'breastfed' or 'formula fed'

NothingsLeft Mon 08-Jul-13 11:45:36

How you doing today? smile

bigkidsdidit Mon 08-Jul-13 12:11:04

Still lumpy and blocked on the left, he absolutely will NOT feed from that side. So only ising the right, which is getting shredded again. I got antibiotics last night so hoping they kick in soon.

Seeing as I have so much milk (I have to change clothes three times a day) I have decided to switch to exclusive expressing. My mate has an electric pump she doesn't use which she is posting me today and I will start tomorrow. I am very happy with my decision - no pain, but DS gets breastmilk smile

NothingsLeft Mon 08-Jul-13 18:22:55

Sorry the boob has is still troublesome but pleased you have found something that your happy with. Hope you make a speedy recovery smile

bigkidsdidit Mon 08-Jul-13 18:44:56

Actually I take the 'exclusively' but back - just had one last try with a shield and DS finally got it! It was easy!

Will probably now split expressing and shields smile smile

pookamoo Mon 08-Jul-13 22:04:03

So glad you have found a solution that suits you, and you sound really happy about it.

The shields can help babies to open their mouths wider, improving their latch, as the shield is bigger than the normal nipple. Glad it seems to be working, you have been through a lot this last week!
flowers

NothingsLeft Mon 08-Jul-13 22:15:07

Great - you have options! Agree you have been through a lot. It reminds me how tough those first few weeks of BFing are. I wish more midwives snipped TT, it would make things so much easier. You have done so well, mastitis is truly awful and inevitable for lots of women it seems.

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