My baby is not taking feeds

(102 Posts)
Summerlover Fri 26-Apr-13 15:18:21

Hi to all lovely Mums,

I am very new to mumsnet and in disparate need of help.

To start with I wanted to exclusively breast feed my chicken but he had jaundice when he was 10 days old and was in hospital for a night. There in the hospital the doctors put him on Aptamil and when he was discharged adviced us to do mixed feeding. Then he was diagnosed with severe reflux which he has until now. Can breast milk cause reflux?

My LO took just 270 mls yesterday and until now just 120 mls after loads of struggle. He is 4 months old I am really worried and stressed what shall I do?

Please help.

Ilovestackingcups Fri 26-Apr-13 15:37:20

Stay calm!

Breast milk does not cause reflux. Reflux is caused by stomach acid passing back up into baby's gullet from his stomach and burning. This can be made worse by prolonged periods lying flat if your LO is prone to reflux. As he is still only 4mo, have you got a sling you could use? Not a Babybjorn, but a wrap (solid or stretchy) means he can snooze upright on you during the day/after feeds. At night, can you prop up the head end of his cot/moses basket stand with a couple of books? This will mean he is never completely flat, and may help with reflux.

Feeds wise, are you getting wet and dirty nappies? And are you also still bfing? If you are, please try not to panic. You can't tell how much breastmilk he's getting unless you're expressing it and giving it in bottles. He may be having a slow day food wise. Babies are like the rest of us, they don't always want to eat. If his fontanelle looks depressed, he may be dehydrated. Keep him comfortable, keep offering him feeds. Don't fret if he won't take them as babies can pick up on emotional responses really quickly. He won't feed, you get frustrated, he will too, he won't feed, etc.

Also, please don't just take advice from me. If you want reassurance, call your doctor or HV today and get him seen. They are professionally trained to deal with this sort of thing, I'm not.

I really hope he turns a corner soon. I remember worrying so much about quantity of milk drunk.

Good luck!

Summerlover Fri 26-Apr-13 16:27:04

Thank you so much for responding. After every feed I have him in my shoulder In fact he naps on me :-). Very tiring though but have to do whatever it takes to ease him. He wasn't taking milk properly like for 10 days before but one day he took what he should and made so happy even though I was knackered as he won't sleep at nights wakes up frequently. Any ways now we are back to square one again and he isn't taking. I also felt offering breast before bottle may be confuses him as he would refuse bottle altogether. I am not sure but this is what I figured out. I feel I am doing something wrong.

For breast feeding it says avoid wheat and so I and so on how can I do that? Wheat is in cakes, pasties they means what should I eat. I have been trying to speak to health visitor, GP no one seems to help.

I am not getting enough wet nappies and he seems hungry not content. He won't play or anything he is crying almost whole day and I rocking him. He won't sit in his bouncer swing or gym.

I also feel my breast milk isn't sufficient for him. Honestly I don't have confidence on that front though I want to bf him only. I have electric breast pump which I can't use as he keeps me occupied all day and night.

Is nursing pillow of any help while bfing him.

We have his cot propped up. When I read online it says he should be taking a lot more than he does anyway. Can it be the bottle that we are using? Started with tommee tippee now feeding with Mam.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Fri 26-Apr-13 16:29:39

The formula can cause reflux because of intolerance to milk protein

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 26-Apr-13 17:14:35

Try googling the national Breastfeeding helpline and give them a call, I think you need to speak to a BFC.

Is there a bfing support group near to you too? It might be worth going along.

Just wondering if he has been checked for tongue tie too. My DS sounds very much like your DS and with him it was tongue tie and upper lip tie.

Just wondering who has told you to avoid wheat? Is there a particular reason for this? Is your DS wheat intolerant?

Have you tried him with a different formula? While lots of HCP recommend aptimil it is simply because of the way it is marketed to doctors and nurses, no one formula is better than any other.

Welcome to MN and I know you've had some great advice on here already smile

ExBrightonBell Fri 26-Apr-13 17:19:12

I really feel for you SummerLover, you sound confused and worried. Please do go back to your HV and discuss all this with them. Explain how many wet and dirty nappies you are getting a day, and get them to tell you if this is ok. Also get then to check his weight. Make it clear that you want to move to exclusively breastfeeding and ask for support with this.

There are many aspects of what you have been told that seem puzzling from the outside. I am surprised you were advised to mix feed when discharged - the hospital could have discussed ways to increase breastfeeds. Also who has told you to avoid wheat, and did they say why? This is something I've never heard before.

Remember if you are breastfeeding as well as giving formula, the amounts quoted for formula don't apply. They only apply to babies only getting formula. Try not to get hung up on giving a specific volume of formula. If he seems hungry after a breastfeed, either offer the breast again or give formula if you prefer. But don't try and give a specific volume of formula - just as much as he seems to want.

Have you been given any medication for the reflux? AFAIK there are several different ones that could help - maybe go back to the GP and ask about this.

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 26-Apr-13 18:49:09

Oh and keep posting summerlover. Let us know what you are thinking about all of this and how you are getting on smile

Summerlover Fri 26-Apr-13 19:32:19

Thank you so very much for your inputs. Very right I am confused. Being first time Mum and do many things going in simultaneously I am getting all confused and stressed out. My breast milk was sufficient even when he was admitted to hospital for jaundice but the doctors there just said to combine feed and we being first time parents hadn't even read anything about formula as we were planning to do just breast feeding in honesty that's where all this trouble started to happen. Any how we are offering him tetra packs of formula.

Here is the thing with breast feeding I realised that as soon as he takes it he gets curdled milk but not with formula so, I end up thinking its BM that's causing reflux.

He is on medication but I really want to stop giving him medicines he is just tiny weenie for that.

I will google the national breast feeding campaigns thank you for that.
The weird part is some paediatrician say he has reflux and a few day he doesn't so, we get confused but I am pretty sure he has it. We have googled it and read it online.

It does say on Internet that BM can't cause reflux but on some blog or something it says it can.

On mumsnet itself it says under the breast feeding section things to consider avoiding while bfing wheat is one of it.

I am already not drinking orange juice because of citric. I am taking lactose free milk, almost no coffee what so ever.

Did your babies start to sleep over night by 4 months. I am do knackered and desperately in need for guidance here.

Do you feel buying a nursing pillow will help me feel better while I feed him from better?

I can see my LO rooting then why would he not take his feeds that's really worrying me?

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 26-Apr-13 20:51:55

Really feel for you, can remember how exhausting those first fess months can be. Can do links now so here are the bfing helpline numbers. Think it would help to talk this through with a BFC.

As for looking at bfing information online, there is a lot of information out there and a lot of it is just opinion and not based on any evidence. If you are looking at bfing info online, have a look at kellymom and la Leche league.

I've not seen the wheat thing on Mn, but know that doesnt mean its not there obviously smile . Kellymom is all evidence based and this is what it says about your diet and bfing.

As for the curdled milk after bfing, I'm really not sure on that one. Maybe that's one to ask a BFC on one of the helplines smile.

How do you feel about the top ups? Are you happy to continue or would you prefer to wean Lo off them?

As for the sleep, very few babies do sleep all night at 4 months. Even babies who have previously slept through start to wake as this is a classic time for a growth spurt and a sleep regression. The ISIS website is a good starting point and the book Sound Sleep is good too smile

If he's still not taking his formula, could he just be full from your BM? Have you tried offering the breast again? They are never empty you know and the more you feed, the more you produce smile. Are you offering each breast at least once each feed too summer?

Have you been going to any bfing support groups? Sometimes you just need a cuppa and a bit of adult conversation with people who know what you are going through smile

Summerlover Sat 27-Apr-13 09:32:08

Hi JJJ thank you for trying to help me. Thank you to all the lovely ladies for your inputs. JJJ the link on MN- http://www.mumsnet.com/babies/foods-to-avoid-while-breastfeeding.

Haven't slept for more than an hour in a day in4 months in fact not even an hour been rocking him and then he is in my chest sleeping or won't sleep. Knackered literally on the point of breaking and crying because I can still cope up with not sleeping but he is not taking his feed. He won't drink anything for 9-10 hours and then after struggle just 30mls. He isn't taking the breast just screaming with hunger. I try to offer him breast first and then bottle but he won't take breast Allan's bottle with struggle lots of struggle. Makes me cry to see he is hungry but not taking. I don't why would that be? I can hear gurgling noises from his tummy when he takes such sma amount of milk.

I will give call to the Bfc.

We have recently moved in to our own house and I have still not heard anything from the new HV team. It's been a month no one has contacted me so far.

JiltedJohnsJulie Sat 27-Apr-13 09:45:03

Can remember my DS being just like that. He wouldn't sleep and then if he would, it would only be on me.

I know its tough to do things when you are so tired but is there someone who can have him for a bit today, either to give him his bottle or stick him in a sling/pram/car for an hour so that you can ring one of the bfing helplines?

I'm not trained but it does sound like it could be tongue tie. Milk matters do a diagnosis service or you could ask the BFC on the helpline if she thinks it is a possibility.

If you are that tired are you getting any help? Is arranging a cleaner, getting a milkman and doing your shopping online a possibility? You need to try and make things as easy for yourself as you can smile

Let us know what the BFC says smile

noblegiraffe Sat 27-Apr-13 09:45:26

Are you saying that he isn't feeding at all, neither breast nor bottle for 9-10 hours, despite your best efforts?

JiltedJohnsJulie Sat 27-Apr-13 09:48:11

Oh and as for the HV, you might need to call them if you want to speak to them. I moved areas when my DS was about 2 and the HVs never got in touch with me. If you ring your new GPs they should be able to give you the HVs number and the times of any groups she might run like the weigh in clinic.

Have you got a children's centre near to you too? They may run a bfing group and other groups you might like.

kritur Sat 27-Apr-13 11:16:18

Your local sure start centre should have a breast feeding support group you can go to. It sounds like he is uncomfy feeding so you may need to try different positions, he nay prefer to be upright if he has reflux. Are your breasts engorged making latch difficult? If so then hand express a little to deflate them and make things easier for him. Your breast milk is enough for him, I know it's hard as you never know how much he is having. Does he sleep in the pram or car? My dd was a snacker so if I was totally knackered (she has always been a rubbish sleeper) then I would get my mum to take her out for a walk for a couple of hours. She would sleep all tucked up comfy and I'd get my head down. When she got back she'd take a longer feed as well.

JiltedJohnsJulie Sat 27-Apr-13 12:50:24

noble makes a good point. Is he going 9 to 10 hours without anything at all? Have you tried finger, syringe or cup feeding? Have a look at this on alternative feeding methods.

You are right to be worried though. If lo isn't producing enough wet nappies, is screaming and refusing both breast and bottle I think you need medical help.

Have you had chance to ring one of the helplines yet?

Summerlover Sat 27-Apr-13 19:49:12

Yrs Noble that's right nothing at all for 9-10 hours. JJJ I have been to paediatricians before and they say they can't say why this is happening but that was when I used to rock him to sleep and feed him then hd used to take it but now he isn't even doing that. That was very difficult though but still comforting that he is drinking milk but now he just doesn't want it. If I am honest docs have been no use until now. I am going to try to feed him with alternative methods though I tried the cup and he sit that out straight away.

JJJ I didn't get chance to call them yet you can imagine I don't get to eat anything because he just wants meal, scaling hasn't been possible yet.y eyes are burning and shutting but it's all worth it if he takes his feeds.

ExBrightonBell Sat 27-Apr-13 20:01:45

Summerlover, can't your partner deal with some of this eg calling the GP, HV etc? Also preparing food that you can eat one handed whilst holding the baby?

Also, if your baby has had no food at all for the past 10 hours plus I would strongly suggest seeking some urgent medical attention. He could be at risk of dehydration. Please call the GPs tomorrow morning as soon as you can and ask for an emergency appt. Explain that it is for a baby under 6 months who isn't feeding. Or failing that, if he still isn't feeding tomorrow then go to A & E.

Accentuatethepositive Sat 27-Apr-13 20:47:28

Hi summer, I hope you're ok, your situation sounds very stressful. From reading your posts I'm not completely clear about how long you've been seriously concerned about your baby's intake. However if it's been several days of hardly any drinking, not enough wet nappies and him being very unsettled, might it be worth you going to a & e tonight? Or at least calling out of hours doctor. It may be that this would put your mind at rest as if necessary the docs will be able to make sure your son gets hydrated and you can also get them to investigate what's causing the problem, whether that's tongue tie or something else.

I really feel for you as having had my own fair share of feeding problems in the early days with my DD I know there is nothing more stressful than a baby who won't feed.

Hope you get some answers and some rest soon.

noblegiraffe Sat 27-Apr-13 21:51:40

I agree, if he is still not feeding properly then he needs to be seen quite urgently to deal with possible dehydration and to find out why he isn't feeding.

When you have seen a doctor (or a&e), you also need to ask someone for help for yourself. Have you got a partner or family you could ask to look after the baby for a few hours while you get some sleep? You can't carry on as you are with so little sleep.

Accentuatethepositive Sat 27-Apr-13 23:45:16

Hope you are ok OP. I'm sure to be up again later in the night feeding my DD and will make sure I check in. So do post if things get difficult later and you want to talk. But I hope you don't have to because you're getting the real life medical and emotional support you need.

halestone Sun 28-Apr-13 00:49:44

Hi summer, i'm just going to tell you something about my 4 month old it may help it may not.

She was EBF till about 8-9 weeks old and then combined fed till 2 weeks ago. Her sleep has always been horrendous her normal pattern is one sleep which is between 1-2 hours long. Then separate sleeps for the rest of the day which last between 10-30minutes long. We counted and she sleeps about 5-6 hours at most in a 24 hour period.

As i was increasing her FF's and decreasing her BF's we noticed a huge increase in poo from 1 a day to 6-7 a day and she sharted alot. So we swopped from apatimil to Cow and Gate. The poo's decreased but only to 4-5.

She has also vomited after most feed since she was born the Dr refuses to say its reflux although my HV is convinced it is. Anyway since swopping to FF her vomits all increased as well and she vomited between feeds as well. Also she really seemed to struggle against being fed and only took small amounts buy did this quite often.

Anyway the HV came on monday i sobbed my heart out. I was exhausted i just wanted her to sleep for a longer period and the HV said that her sleep pattern was abnormal. It was her that made me look more closely at bowel habits and vomiting habits. When we discussed the above and her sleep pattern together, the HV was able to come up with a couple of answers.

First she asked me to take my DD to the GP and ask him about a milk intolerance and also to talk about reflux Again So we did this we are now awaiting the results of a stool sample to see if she is intolerant to milk. GP refused to prescribe anything for reflux until the results are back though.

The HV also told me that cow and gate do a formula called cow and gate reflux and suggested we try that. She said they only sell it in boots though.

We managed to get hold of it and have noticed a huge improvement in her. She hasn't vomited since thursday, only has 2 poos a day and no sharts. Her poos where previously burning her bum despite me changing her bum as soon as she poo'd. That seems to have stopped. Also she is sleeping more settled shes not thrashing around in her sleep and has managed a 3 hour sleep gringringringrin but more amazingly tonight she actually self settled.

If you buy the cow and gate though please bare in mind that it is quite thick we've had to go to the next teat size up so DD can get it out.

Sorry its a mammoth post i was hoping it may help you, sorry if it doesn't. Also maybe think about joining a postnatal thread on here, i'm on the december 2012 thread, its saved my sanity at times

JiltedJohnsJulie Sun 28-Apr-13 13:59:34

Are things any better summer. Has he bf or had any formula today?

JiltedJohnsJulie Sun 28-Apr-13 14:12:54

Agree with the others too, you need to get some help with this and fast.

Have you got someone to have him for a couple of hours so that you can rest? Can someone prepare you a few meals? You will feel better able to deal with this and think clearly if you can get some sleep. Have you got a partner, family, friend or neighbour who could help?

You really do need to find out why he's not feeding and that he is isn't suffering from dehydration..

Summerlover Sun 28-Apr-13 20:22:32

Thank you everyone. I feel like all of you are my family and supporting and guiding me thank you ever so much. I have been to A&e and they say he is fine, thank god for that. They say he is all fine but they don't know why he isn't taking feeds and can't help me with that. Which I didn't like to hear they' said he isn't dehydrated. He took couple of feeds in the morning today but again nothing so, I am still worried because I stressed this to the paed that if he hasn't list weight yet then he will. They said if he is hungry he will take it well, I was in tears there,they don't understand.

My LO just wants to be held by me so, he won't go to his Daddy hence, me suffering with no rest. He just wants to be as close to me as possible I really wanted to out my head down for sometime but not possible as he just wants me.

Accentuatethepositive Sun 28-Apr-13 20:37:14

Ah glad to see you back and hear your little one is ok. That must be a relief for you. I'm no expert on the continuing feeding issues but perhaps others will have suggestions. Personally I have found local breastfeeding groups very helpful perhaps you can find one near you? If you get one run by an infant feeding specialist hopefully they can help with the bottle feeding side of things too?

To give you a rest could your partner take the baby out in the buggy or sling for a couple of hours? Perhaps DS might be ok with someone else if he's in motion? Or you could look up the safety guidelines for co sleeping and if you can set things up safely perhaps DS will sleep snuggled up with you allowing you to get a bit of rest too? Sleep deprivation is hell, I'm sure it would help you see things more clearly to catch up a bit.

Good luck and once again I'm pleased to hear your son isn't dehydrated.

hello and welcome to mumsnet.

i know nothing about reflux but just wanted to reassure you that my own 4month old doesn't sleep through most nights its 2hourly waking for feeds. She also has days where i carry her constantly as she's whining a wrap sling is a life saver. She sleeps on me alot too or the carseat or puschair slightly sat up she has no issues but will not sleep laid flat!

your doing a great job La leche league are good for advice also the kellymom website re the bfing xx

noblegiraffe Sun 28-Apr-13 21:17:00

Oh I'm pleased you got baby checked out and he was ok. I was a bit worried for you so I'm glad you updated.

Re the feeding, as it's still a problem it would be worth trying to get someone to watch a breastfeed to see if they can spot any problems. So maybe go to a breastfeeding cafe or try to arrange for a visit by a breastfeeding counsellor. With the bottle feeding (I know nothing about bottle feeding I'm afraid) would a different type of bottle help? Or a bigger teat? I've read on here that babies can get frustrated if the hole is too small and they have to work too hard for the milk.

I would also go to baby clinic and get the baby weighed and his weight recorded regularly so if it does drop through the lines you've got a record of this. Can you arrange another appointment with the paediatrician to discuss his reflux because you seem very confused about the best approach with the breastfeeding and medication and whether baby has reflux? If it's possible it's the medication causing the feeding problems, (what is he on?) then they might be able to change it for something else. If the medication hasn't helped with sleeping or being able to lie baby down, then changing medication might help there too.

For you, you really need to get some sleep yourself, you're going to get ill or crack up if it carries on (my DS was a dreadful sleeper and I nearly had a breakdown at 4 months and DH then took over a lot which really helped). It won't hurt your baby if your partner takes him out of the house for a couple of hours while you rest. If he stays in the house, you won't be able to relax listening for him.
Trying cosleeping is a good suggestion too, can you take all the pillows and duvet off your bed, put a bed guard on (look up proper safe co-sleeping guidelines) and doze next to your baby? You could try to feed lying down?

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 29-Apr-13 10:34:35

Also glad you got him checked and he isn't dehydrated. My DS just wanted to be with me and didnt want Daddy but there were times when I knew he had been fed and I just needed to sleep so DH would take him out in the car. He would cry while being out in the car but would be asleep before they got out of the street. You really need someone to take him from you once you've bf him and give him his top up and take him out of the house.

Have you got any bfing groups in your area? Think getting a BFC to watch you do a whole feed is a good idea, she could also check for tongue tie.

Have you or DH managed to find out where your local baby weighing clinic is yet? Think it is also a good idea to get another appointment with the Paeds, have you got an appointment coming up?

We found too that co sleeping really helped. There is some info on sharing your bed with your baby here and how to do it here

Somebody mentioned that the La Leche league might be able to help, there helpline number is 0845 120 2918 and you can find out if there is a group in your area here. If they aren't active in your area don't panic though, there should be other bfing support groups near to you.

Just wish you were near to me so I could come around and help you smile

Summerlover Mon 29-Apr-13 14:54:15

Thank you all ever so much. JJJ that means a lot to me for what you said. Thank you everyone for taking your time out. I have an appointment with new GP tomorrow will ask him to refer us to paeds though the last one never did will try again. I will sit and look up all the links in detail as soon as I get time. I will need to speak to Le leche as well but my munchkin sleeps on me so, don't know when but I have to do all this.

As we have just recently moved so, I don't know any neighbours yet and him not letting me do anything seems its far out of question that I will know anyone smile. He doesn't even like to sit in his buggy that I can atleast take him to 5 mins walk away GP. It's just all so much stressful. But thank you everyone for being there for me. You all make me feel like a part of a big family. Group hug.

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 29-Apr-13 15:05:34

Could you phone the helpline while he is bleeding or sleeping on you? Have you mastered the Internet and feeding at the same time yet?

Summerlover Mon 29-Apr-13 17:34:12

JJJ I am afraid he wakes up so, can't be on phone.

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 29-Apr-13 20:01:30

Feeding not bleeding sorry. Bloody iphone.

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 29-Apr-13 20:03:15

Could you ask DH to take him out for an hour then? My DS was very much like yours but he would settle for a bit in a motorised swing, dd preferred to be in a sling. Both should give you a break, especially if DH is wearing the sling smile

noblegiraffe Mon 29-Apr-13 20:29:47

If you haven't got a sling you should really give one a go. My DD (3 months) was being an unputdownable pain today so I put her in a baby bjorn and was able to hang out washing and eat my lunch without complaint. She also slept in it through a meeting with my bank manager!

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 29-Apr-13 21:50:51

How have the feeds been today?

Summerlover Tue 30-Apr-13 12:09:38

Struggle to feed him but still better. I put him to sleep and then feed him and then took him again for his nap sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't but still feeling a bit better as I trying to figure out ways to feed him. Good Noble you brought up about the sling. Which sling would you ladies suggest. I am looking to travel abroad as well soon? Don't want to invest too much money in it either as we have already been spending like crazy for the baby. I am sure everyone does it though. As I am not planning to have another baby so, nothing will be of use. Thank you though ladies for bring there.

Summerlover Tue 30-Apr-13 12:20:16

Was about to go to the feeding canpaigntoday but the baby won't let me. He started screaming wont getting his buggy so, still at home literally pleaded him but he won't just let us both go.may be he will let me go to baby clinic today to get him weighed.

JiltedJohnsJulie Tue 30-Apr-13 13:06:06

I know its hard but you need to get to that bfing group, you need help. Is it too late to go? Is the baby clinic today too? If you put him in his pram, how far is the walk?

As for slings, I used the close, you can get them on ebay if you are worried about the cost. Some other mnetters might be able to recommend others.

I'd didn't really spend much on the DC, but then we haven't got much grin. I'm just bought things as and when we needed them, but I never regretted spending the money I did on my sling and I sold it on.

Some children's centres have them to loan out or there are slingmeets.

To be honest though I'd just get a sling that is easy to put on and get it quickly.

If you are having trouble phoning the bfing helplines and getting out, could DH have some time off work or could he take him out for a walk or drive this evening so that you can make that call?

Summerlover Tue 30-Apr-13 13:48:46

You are right I need to go to bfing group. It was from 10 to 12 today and I was out of the door by 11:20ish but then it was 25 mind bus ride would have been useless to go by then. I have called up the health visitor she says there is one tomorrow afternoon will try to go for that now. Do you know where I can post on mumsnet and get to know which sling to buy? Thank you as always.

If you don't mind me asking how many kids do you have?

Black lining has arrived hopefully that would help him nap ansmd sleep better.

JiltedJohnsJulie Tue 30-Apr-13 14:15:40

I've got 2. From a large family so have lots of experience and still found coping with DS just so hard. Dd wasn't tongue tied, fed for 10 minutes every 3 hours and slept in her sling in between. It was such a relief.

As for posting on Mn, I'd post in chat, you'll get plenty of traffic there smile

Are there any other bfing groups to go to? Is there a la Leche league near to you?

Summerlover Wed 01-May-13 00:21:02

You do seem very well experienced, thank you for sharing your expertise.

Went to the GP today they didn't even have the weighing balance! Told the GP everything he didn't even look at LO what to say of. Anything and goes some babies are difficult to feed.

He mentioned one of the medication has side effect and when I asked what side effects he said no there isn't,' nightmare!

I asked him to refer to paeds he refused. He said he won't until LO is 6 months and will reexamine then and see if there is any need.

Summerlover Wed 01-May-13 02:21:27

JJJ I am fine bfing right side very comfortable but when it comes to left as just can't do that. Have been latching him mostly to right now. Any suggestions please.

ExBrightonBell Wed 01-May-13 08:40:10

Summerflower, have you found the details of your local health visitor team? They should have a weekly weigh in you can attend, normally without having to make an appointment. I would also hope that the health visitors would be a bit more sympathetic to you than the GP.

Please do also find out about whether there are any local La Leche League meetings - it sounds like you need some experienced breastfeeders to talk to you in real life.

noblegiraffe Wed 01-May-13 08:55:55

I'm really sorry you're struggling to find real life support in what sounds like a very difficult time. If the GP isn't interested then it's even more important to get your baby weighed regularly. If the feeding is really awful then baby will drop centiles and the GP will have to start taking you seriously.

What medication are you giving him? Perhaps someone on here can give you some advice.

If you are really struggling to get out of the house can you ask the health visitor for a home visit? Explain how difficult you are finding things. They could bring scales too.

Why can't baby latch onto the left side? You really need someone to watch you feed! When is the next breastfeeding cafe session?

Accentuatethepositive Wed 01-May-13 11:59:40

Hi summer sorry to hear you are still struggling. Forgive me if I'm wrong but am I right in thinking English isnt your first language? If so then it's even more important you find someone to help you who won't be rushed and will have time to spend with you understanding what problems you are having and making sure you understand the advice you are given. Sadly GPs just don't have the time to spend with patients. If this doesn't apply then obviously ignore me.

A health visitor home visit sounds good. Or if you can afford it perhaps you could get a private lactation consultant to come Ito your home? I had a visit from one which was invaluable. It cost me £80 but worth every penny. Obviously investigate free support first though. If you phone gp they should be able to tell you where and when baby clinic is but I would also ask to speak to the health visitor team and see if they will visit you.

Accentuatethepositive Wed 01-May-13 12:46:38

Also if you want to pm me with your location i would be happy to do some research and try and find some local support for you if you are struggling to get time to look? Or if you are comfortable sharing where you are in this thread MNers near you may be able to help?

Summerlover Wed 01-May-13 14:30:54

I have been trying to get hold of our new health visitor but haven't been able to speak yet. Accentuate English is my first language but having no sleep for 4 months almost I am missing on words which I am sure everyone would understand. I am in south East London. Eltham.

Accentuatethepositive Wed 01-May-13 15:29:33

Hi summer have p m'd you.

Summerlover Wed 01-May-13 18:31:51

Hi Noble,

He is on omeprazole ( not sure if I have spelt it right) and domperidom.

Hi Exbrighton,

Will see about le leche group. Accentuate has given me some very useful info. I think I will ask my DH to take a day off so I can get this sorted. Thank you everyone for your help.

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 01-May-13 18:53:13

Still think with his behaviour, latch on one side and reflux it could be tongue tie summer.

Summerlover Wed 01-May-13 20:12:32

Paeds say its not tongue tie where should I get him checked to be sure?

Summerlover Wed 01-May-13 20:13:09

I think it's me not him that I can't latch him to my left side.

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 01-May-13 20:25:17

It is very easy to miss, there is a whole thread of MNers who have been told their Lo didn't have it only to find out later they did. My DS also had upper lip tie, so its worth getting that checked too.

Milk matters do a virtual diagnosis service but I'm not sure if its free. They are on 0845 26 99 574.

Don't know if you've got the details of your local la Leche league but shout if you haven't. They should be able to help too smile

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 01-May-13 20:27:37

Just one more thing, don't know if anyone else can put up the links for this as I'm struggling. On youtube there are some good vids by dr jack newman.

Accentuatethepositive Wed 01-May-13 20:33:30

Do you mean these ones JJJ?
www.breastfeedinginc.ca/content.php?pagename=videos

Also summer I know of people who have had tongue tie diagnosed and referral for quick treatment from going to the Friday drop in I messaged you about. If you are planning to go there hopefully you could get DS tongue checked.

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 01-May-13 20:52:15

Yes they are the ones, thanks accentuate and glad too that you know of somewhere summer can go smile

Summerlover Fri 03-May-13 14:06:09

Hi ladies,

Thank you so much for being there for me. Accentuate thank you ever so much. The HV came in today she weighed him and glad his weight is fine. She has spoken to me about a lot many things and says that he has wrapped me around his fingers though it has to be other way around. Feeding wise she said he will take feed if he is hungry I told her but that's not what he does so, she said that we can play around and see if takes his feeds for the next few days. I am probably going to give it a try again and see what happens and get him weighed on tues. Thank you again ladies. Oh! She kept on emphasising about giving him just formula well that's not something I would do, I told get off in this one do, she said think until tues seems she didn't understand what I said. Thank you everyone I will keep you posted will get his tougue tie checked on wed .

HalleLouja Fri 03-May-13 14:14:18

Sling wise I think there is a sling library in South London here. Not sure how far it is from you. I had a connecta and it was fabulous but there are so many.

The HV shouldn't be pushing you to put him on formula. Bliming HVs. Can you see a BFing counsellor or a lactation consultant as they will have a much better idea than a HV I would say.

He hasn't wrapped you round his finger - you are his mummy and you are looking after him [hugs].

Summerlover Fri 03-May-13 19:20:34

Thank you Halle Accentuate has given me a sling today. Hopefully that should sort out the sling if not then I will check the website provided by you and see how we go from there.

Meeting a counsellor on wed if that doesn't help then will see the lactation consultant.
As per HV he should take his feed when he is hungry which would be like 4 hours at max well he doesn't he just had 70 ml at 9 this morning and nothing until now which I had to feed him whilst he was asleep like you said I am his Mum can't see him like that so fed him.

I still dont understand why he won't take his feed even when he is hungry.
Oh! I so wish I should have joined MN b4 may be my LO would have been on Bf only. Thank you any ways ladies for your help much appreciated.

HalleLouja Fri 03-May-13 20:15:35

I did manage to bf only my jaundiced baby but don't beat yourself up about it. My dd was topped up with formula but as she is my second I made sure I spoke to the good bf counsellor at the hospital who helped me wean her off formula.

But if the bf counsellor wasn't there the first time then I would have given up. First DC was in SCBU as they were premmie. But once you figure out who is useful next time (if there ever is one) you will know who to call on for advice.

First time its all so new and scary and the health professionals don't always help.

And breathe.

JiltedJohnsJulie Fri 03-May-13 22:14:21

Been a bit busy for a couple of days, but have caught up now, sounds like you've been getting lots of good advice (apart from the HV obviously).

Agree that a BFC should be able to work with you on reducing the top ups, if that's what you want.

How is he in the sling and how has he fed for the rest of the day?

GraceGrape Fri 03-May-13 23:45:08

Summerlover, I've just seen your thread and it sounds like you're having a terribly hard time. I am the mother of two reflux babies and the early months can be very hard to deal with, especially feeding . I see that your little one is on omeprazole and domperidone. Omeprazole is about the best medication available for treating the pain of reflux. My DD1 was a very unhappy, screaming, difficult to feed, poor-sleeping baby until we got her medication right. I was very worried about giving her medication at first but it really was the best thing for her. These medications are very commonly prescribed for babies with reflux and will not do him any harm. My DD2 was on omeprazole by about 6 weeks old as I didn't want to see another baby suffer like my first. Do you mind my asking what dose your LO is having, as it doesn't sound like his pain is managed yet and the dosage can vary.

Regarding bf, my first daughter was mix-fed for 3 months then FF. She vomited a lot more than my DD2 who is bf. After 6 months, we saw a good paediatrician who prescribed neocate formula - reflux is often connected to food allergy or intolerance as you've heard. She was much better on this, although still vomited. It doesn't sound as if your health professionals have been very supportive. I have found reflux to be widely misunderstood by many GPs. I would suggest you try seeing different ones if possible until you find an understanding one as this will be a great help to you. I see that you've already seen a paed, but was it one who specialises in reflux and feeding problems? Again, it would be really helpful if you could see one.

Finally, as your DS is now four months, have you spoken to the GP/HV about early weaning. I know it's recommended to wait until 26 weeks, but I know full well that when your baby is a very difficult milk feeder it is sometimes better to start offering them different foods as well. Don't do this without medical advice though, as there are many foods that aren't suitable until 6 months.

I hope things improve for you soon and you manage to get some more sleep. Good luck.

GraceGrape Sat 04-May-13 00:03:07

I also meant to say that I think your HV is talking rubbish. Milk feeding can be very painful for babies with reflux, which is why your LO is not taking his feeds. I know of some reflux babies that would only feed while asleep because of the pain. To dismiss this as him "wrapping you round his little finger" is awful. You sound like you're being a wonderful caring Mum.

Summerlover Sat 04-May-13 02:08:01

Thank you Halle for sharing your experience with me. Hi JJJ,will let you know how the sling is as soon as I use it. Feeding wise it's been alright much better than it was before where wasn't taking feeds at all. Rock him put him to sleep and feed him and that was every 2 to 2.5 hours usually or can go longer for 5-6 hours.

Summerlover Sat 04-May-13 02:21:21

GG that's such a relief to know on one side and justifies why he isn't taking his feed whilst he is awake. But on the other side it awful to know that he is in pain. After HV visit we've missed couple if feeds and pushed the feed to 4 hours instead of every 2 hours. What do you suggest I should do to feed him, carry on the way I was.

His dosage for domperidom is 2.5 ml 3 times a day. Omeprazole 5ml once in a day.

Oh! We haven't seen a paed by referral we have been to A&e several timed because of feeding issue. GP won't refer us to paed I think I will have to make a stand with the new GPS now and get a referral. I should have done that with the previous GP. If the new ones don't I am going to get health insurance and take him privately.

He has silent reflux so, it becomes difficult to know what'd going on until he screams in pain, bless him, but that is heart breaking.

Trying to be a good Mum and your post and other Mums post has given me the confidence to stand up to my decision and now I will tell HV that he isn't spoiled he is suffering, so she should shut up and help us resolve it.

Summerlover Sat 04-May-13 02:21:53

Thank you so much GG and everyone else.

Summerlover Sat 04-May-13 02:22:56

Accentuate I have sent you a message.

JiltedJohnsJulie Sat 04-May-13 08:37:52

Agree with the others, a 4 month old can't manipulate, they just aren't capable and you can't spoil them either. I also would never leave a bf baby for 4 hours without a feed. Wonder if your HV goes 4 hours without having a drink or snack, my 9 and 5 year olds can't manage that! Sounds like she is talking bollocks had out of date information and could benefit from some retraining smile

GraceGrape Sat 04-May-13 10:15:16

Hi Summer, silent reflux is awful, poor thing. I have really found getting the right dose of omeprazole has helped my DD2. The dose is weight-related so it might be worth seeing your GP to see if they can increase it - it should be able to control the pain.

I agree with Julie, 4 hours is a long time for a bf baby to go without a feed. DD2 would never go more than 3 hours, more often 2.5 hours. Also, reflux babies like to feed small amounts more often as it's easier for them to manage the milk like that. There's no reason to wait for hours (although feeding little and often at night is annoying! - I ended up co-sleeping with DD2). Hope things improve for you.

Summerlover Sat 04-May-13 20:47:26

Seems like now I have a troublesome HV who needs retraining. Not sure what bad I have done that I am getting pathetic professionals. Is there anyway that I could change my HV b4 it's too late.

After observing my LO for so many days like this I think I can easily say he seems to have some kind of phobia for milk now. We were grocery shopping today and he wanted to feed tried everything but he won't take it finally he went without any feed for 7 hours and he got overtired as well.tgis is what stresses me a lot even though he is hungry he can't take it ', I am thinking it definitely because of reflux.

HV must be crazy to say 4 hours she also said if doesn't take the full feed its his fault he needs to learn that he won't get any milk for next 4 hours. I think she is nuts because no Mum can see a hungry baby and not offer him milk. This is driving me crazy now. Need to sort out GP and now HV as well.

Accentuatethepositive Sat 04-May-13 20:59:19

Sorry to hear that summer. Hopefully you will get the help you need next week. If you really are struggling though and can stretch to the cost I would definitely recommend contacting the lactation consultant I mentioned. Good luck with the rest of the weekend

GraceGrape Sat 04-May-13 21:51:30

Summer, I re-read your thread and had a thought that might help. You mention that you are taking lactose-free milk. Have you tried going completely dairy-free? Reflux babies usually react to cow's milk protein rather than lactose (lactose-free milk still has cow's milk protein in it). It's not that hard to go dairy free - I've been doing it while I breastfeed DD2. There are many milk alternatives in the supermarkets, although I'd avoid soya as about half of babies that are intolerant to cow's milk are also intolerant to soya, but you can get Oatly (which is what both DDs and I drink), rice milk, almond milk, coconut milk etc. You have to do without yoghurt, cheese etc to and to do it properly you should try to read labels and avoid things containing dairy products. You soon get used to it and there are a lot of things available in the "free from" section of supermarkets. You should notice within about 2-3 weeks if it's making any difference to his reflux. Obviously, if you're still combination feeding this would be tricky though.

GraceGrape Sat 04-May-13 21:54:44

Sorry - forgot something, my DD takes 10mg of omeprazole a day (she is 7 months). The "safe" range when she was first put on it (at about 6 weeks) was between 3mg and 13mg so I'd say a 5mg dose is too low for your DS at 4 months if he's still in pain.

willitbe Sat 04-May-13 22:17:52

Please consider changing to anti-allergy formula (or no formula at all).

When I had my first baby, the health visitor told me to mix feed. It was the biggest mistake I ever made. For two years I did not know that the pain and suffering was from the formula milk. I am not anti bottle feeding, but when a child is milk protein intolerant it is often not picked up by the health professionals.

If you are going to continue with mixed feeding please go to the chemist and get the type of formula given to prem babies that is free from milk protein, soy and lactose.

I hope that you and you baby get some help and relief soon.

willitbe Sat 04-May-13 22:25:44

Also forgot to say that if you do go for breast only, don't stress over time taken to feed, just watch for wet nappies, this is the main sign that you baby is getting enough fluid. I found it hard to trust this rather than looking at the amount on the side of a bottle.

Try to trust your own instincts too, it is hard when the so called professionals try to say you are not doing it right.

With breast feeding just offer frequently, try to have a day in bed just cuddling and feeding if possible. If you baby is associating feeding with pain, then time just holding and comforting in between breast feeds might just help the like one.

GraceGrape Sat 04-May-13 22:49:41

Me again! If you have no luck with the paediatrician referral (and you must make a BIG fuss with the GP - tell them everything you have said here about him not feeding and stress that you know this is NOT normal behaviour), then you can see a paediatrician privately without health insurance but you will have to pay for the session. I think they are quite expensive though, usually about £100 - £150. It would be worth researching one who is experienced with reflux.

ClaimedByMe Sat 04-May-13 23:09:05

I may get shot down in flames for this

Have you tried giving him calpol incase his pain is being caused by something else, ie teething?

I had a silent reflux baby but nowhere to the extreme your baby is, my sanity was his car seat or pushing him in the buggy, you must be desperate and I can't imagine what you are going through.

JiltedJohnsJulie Sun 05-May-13 09:23:57

If you do decide to wean from supplements, have a read of this first.

How are you getting on now? Have you tried the sling yet?

Also what does your DH think about all of this? Has he managed to take Lo out for you so that you can get some rest?

Summerlover Mon 06-May-13 14:24:48

Thank you GG and willitbe for sharing your experience.

Summerlover Wed 08-May-13 17:57:40

Hi JJJ,

Sorry missed your post.

It's still the same. Update- i met a bf counsellor today very knowledgeable lady. She also suggested the same that my HV and GP are not right. They are talking ridiculous.

She agreed with me that it does seem that my LO is associating feeding with pain, lets just take today he had a feed at 8:30 am and the until 5 pm nothing which is so not happening. I couldn't feed him like the way I do, as we went to the bf cafe and when it was his feeding time I had to leave the house to get to the BFC otherwise would have missed like last time. I felt very bad and still feeling but I had no other choice.
She has asked me to take him to GP to get him checked for infections so, we can eradicate that and have a plan if action.

Tongue tie she said he seems alright and that she can't refer him to paed now for it as. He is not that much young.

Accentuatethepositive Wed 08-May-13 19:50:26

Glad you got to clinic summer, did you find it helpful? Did the bfc watch a feed or could you not persuade DS? Did she at least watch you try to feed him, either with breast or bottle? Any other practical suggestions other than visiting GP?

Summerlover Wed 08-May-13 21:13:10

Seems like I am half asleep every time I am reading or responding on MN. Actually I am, my eyes are half shut due to lack of sleep and now when I read back my English seems so poor. Now, I know ATP why you thought I am not fluent in English.

Coming back to my LO. She saw what happened whenever I tried to feed him with the breast, didn't do bottle there but she understood very well what I was saying.

Other than getting my little darling checked by a GP she told me to do baby moon. She will call me on fri to check on how we are getting along. I will be going back to the BFC next week. ZUNE

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 08-May-13 21:51:58

A baby moon sounds like a very good idea. Get DH to leave you lots of snacks and drinks and go to bed with Lo for a couple of days. Sod the housework and everything else.

I get the impression that you are very much on your own with this, is your DH helping at all? Could he go to the GP with you?

Accentuatethepositive Fri 10-May-13 09:32:13

How is the baby mooning going summer? Any progress?

Summerlover Mon 13-May-13 19:48:11

Hi ladies,

You all must be wondering how things are and where have I gone? Sorry things haven't been good at all. I have been very busy with my DS that's why I haven't be onto MN. We went to A&e during weekend as DS refused his feeds all together. Before going there we had figured out it because of reflux. He is I the verge of dropping his weight now. I am shattered as I have no night no day no nothing except r
Trying to feed him. He has been screaming in pain it bless him he is a fighter a s trying to fight it the best he can. It wasn't really useful going to A&e as they can't do any tests so, need to get a referral from GP. We are thinking to get him checked privately now. Does anyone knows any good paeds in London ?

JiltedJohnsJulie Mon 13-May-13 20:49:54

Oh you poor thing. Have no idea of Paeds in London, hopefully some kind MNer will come along soon.

GraceGrape Mon 13-May-13 23:48:52

Summer you need to look for paediatric gastroenterologists at your local hospital/private hospital. You could try phoning the switchboard and see if they can advise you if there are any?

I have sent you a pm with the name of the gastroenterologist I saw with DD1 but he is outside London I'm afraid.

AndBingoWasHisNameOh Tue 14-May-13 09:42:30

http://www.paediatricgastroenterologist.co.uk/

Not dealt with him myself but this is the sort of expertise you need

Summerlover Tue 14-May-13 19:38:47

Thanks GG have searched. I think I will take him either to Harley street or St Thomas's. GP has also referred us today to saint Thomas's.

I had read about vs milk called enfamil and doctor has prescribed it as well. Infact we have already bought it butds doesn't like it.read that it helps babies with reflux. Not sure how to transition him to it.

Pleasenomorepeppa Tue 14-May-13 19:56:44

Hi Summer, just seen this thread.
My DD is nearly 4 months & is on 10mg Omeprezole & an Aptimal Pepti formula. We have trouble getting feeds into her too as it just hurts. BF hasn't worked out as she screamed with pain everytime she got a good latch.
We use Tommy Tippee bottles on a number 2 teat, but I think we're going to go up to a number 3 as when she has to suck hard it seems to put her off.
Nuk bottles are good too as she doesn't have to put them too far into her mouth. Also our stretchy wrap has been a Godsend.
I hope the Paed helps. We were referred at her 6 week check due to the amount of times we'd been into the GP about her reflux. She's my second refluxy baby!
I'm in North London & feel free to pm me.
Good luck flowers.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Wed 15-May-13 13:48:17

Go see Mike Thomson. Urgently. He's at the Portland.

OpheliasWeepingWillow Wed 15-May-13 13:49:48

PM me for his immediate contact details OP

JiltedJohnsJulie Wed 15-May-13 21:07:10

summer how are you now?

Summerlover Thu 16-May-13 19:34:17

Thank you everyone, well I am taking each day as it comes now. Going step by step. Need to wean DS to powdered aptamil first as he is on ready made Aptami, l infact need to make sure he takes some milk first then wean to powder and then start adding enfamil probably or workout how to wean him to that as one of the MNetter has pmed me about it.

JiltedJohnsJulie Thu 16-May-13 19:43:46

Have you managed to secure a Paed appointment summer?

GraceGrape Thu 16-May-13 21:33:09

You could make up a bit of the powdered Enfamil into a liquid and then mix with the ready made Aptamil if you want to keep using that?

Summerlover Tue 21-May-13 10:55:16

Saint Thomas's appointment is in 3 weeks time. I trust them so much that I am just waiting to see a consultant there. GG thanks would try that.

It's just so difficult I kind of feel depressed about all this sorry I have been on net.

Also, does teething also put babies in to refusing milk. It's quite possible that he is teething because he likes to grab everything and chew or is he just hungry.

I have tried I think almost everything to try and feed him. It makes me all cranky.

JiltedJohnsJulie Tue 21-May-13 15:08:48

If you think he is teething try him with some ibruprofen about 20 mins before a feed and a teething gel like dentinox just before you feed.

Have seen this tip on another thread and it made me think of you. Behave a google of images of upper lip tie.

Summerlover Sun 26-May-13 03:32:35

Have already tried all that you mentioned but with no luck. It's just do tough. DH is planning to take care of him entire day and give me a break. Hopefully Das will be settled otherwise I would have to pitch in. I am finding things so hard with babies.

Summerlover Sun 26-May-13 13:26:51

Enormous thank you to everyone. DS is teething is as well I am pretty sure and has no tongue tie. Seems reflux and teething are making him fussy because of all this he isn't taking his feeds. Fingers crossed and hoping he will get relief soon and take his feeds.

noblegiraffe Sun 26-May-13 13:32:16

So sorry things are still tough for you, and I hope that the paediatrician can figure out a long term solution.

Enjoy your day off, make sure you get out of the house otherwise you will feel on edge listening in and waiting to be called. Are you still bfing at all?

Summerlover Sun 26-May-13 19:44:20

Did go out it was such a beautiful day. Struggled with feeding LO. I am some what bfing because ds won't take breast during day time so, I try to do that at nights.

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