Formula Feeders Faff Free Fred.

(172 Posts)
TheDetective Mon 25-Feb-13 23:22:56

Hello!

As another lovely poster started a thread to discuss formula feeding, and it was sadly hijacked. I am starting this thread for mums who are formula feeding/mixed feeding/expressing and giving via bottle. Hell, it's for anyone who feeds their baby.

It is not for a bun fight, and it is not to discuss the benefits of either method of feeding!

Just to share tips, information and support.

Chat away!

TheDetective Mon 25-Feb-13 23:27:27

I'll start. I'm The Detective, and I have a 13 week old DS. He was BF for 3 weeks, and then I decided to formula feed.

Today we switched from Cow & Gate 1st milk, to SMA Staydown after discussing with my Health Visitor the options. My son has in the last 3 weeks decided to randomly puke all over the show. He doesn't appear to have reflux, has none of the classic signs, being upright makes him worse. He just vomits randomly, not just after feeds, at any time. The only time he doesn't is at night.

Prior to this he wasn't much of a possetter. It just randomly started. He has had a cold, but it started before the cold, and has lasted beyond the end of the cold.

So my HV said to perhaps try this as the first line, before trying medication.

I have just given him his first feed, and he took it well. I won't know if it is helping yet, as the vomit happens in the day when he is upright or moving.

I was surprised to read the tub and find that you have to make it with cooled boiled water. This goes against everything I ever tell anyone! And that is formula must be made with water above 70 degrees celcius. I am off to find information online about how safe this formula is when it is being made with cooled boiled water.

Little nervous about it! Anyone else know anything about it?

ChairmanWow Tue 26-Feb-13 06:06:02

Hey Detective. Great thread! Long may it live.

My DS (now 23 months so this was a while ago) was a random puker as well, though it tended to be later in the day and sometimes at night. It was a nightmare - he would projectile vomit everywhere. It wasn't a daily occurrence but enough to be a concern. In the end the GP prescribed infant Gaviscon and while it didn't eliminate the problem completely it was massively reduced. Hopefully the SMA stay down will help. I didn't know it existed and we used normal SMA. Maybe it's new.

Re the preparation guidelines, I can't believe the instructions go against every other guidance out there! As soon as that tub is open the powder isn't sterile. I have to 'fess up and say we did our own version, which was to put the powder in, half fill with boiling water and give it a good shake, then top up with cooled boiled water so it could be used immediately. I'd be interested to know if you think that's safe.

RhinotheHamster Tue 26-Feb-13 08:35:24

Chairman, IIRC boiling hot water can kill some of the nutrients in the milk. I'll prob be back to join this thread properly when we make the switch from breast in a few weeks.

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 14:37:05

Hey,

I also have a 13 week old DS and he has been ff since a week old due to bf issues.

After reading all the guidelines we now make up the day feeds in the morning and night feeds in the evening and store them in the back of the fridge.

Re adding boiling water go the powder, I emailed Cow & Gate about this and was told that it can kill some of the nutrients in the milk. I try to use water that is between 70 - 80 degrees.

Looking forward to any other tips to make ff as easy and efficient as possible! <lazy cow emoticon> grin

Zara1984 Tue 26-Feb-13 14:45:04

Hello all!! I have a 17 week DS. He's been FF since he was about 2 weeks old. I planned to bf but he wouldn't latch. I was shocked as I was one of those people with very naive views of how easy bf would be!

We make up all our bottles the night before, and they go in the back of the fridge.

For those mums who did not FF out of choice and still feel guilty (ie they didn't plan to FF from birth or move to formula after a certain amount of time) - I found that the book Bottled Up was amazingly helpful. It's written by the woman who writes the Fearless Formula Feeder blog. Actually the whole blog and her FB page are very useful too! I was a shaky mess whenever I thought about bf and it not working. Until I read that book. It made me feel a lot better smile

Also for those that need tips on FF while travelling/on a plane I can help with that. I went from Ireland to NZ when DS was 4 weeks old and back again when he was 14 weeks!

TheDetective Tue 26-Feb-13 14:48:00

Hi Sweatpea! Come back to the Nov 12 thread! We both have Oscars don't we?!

TheDetective Tue 26-Feb-13 14:49:58

YES! I need that advice!

We go to Switzerland in 5 weeks.

What is the deal with taking formula now?

Because we are trying the staydown stuff, if he is still on it when we go, we will need to take 3 bottles of cooled boiled water, as it has to be made up this way. Plus the powder.

You can't get it premade.

Bums.

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 15:11:58

Yes that's me, I have an Oscar currently snoozing on me as he won't be put down for daytime naps smile

Bit nervous about rejoining the Nov 12 thread, you are all so knowledgeable and wise. I am not confused

I have seen your TT thread - it worries me that the guidance doesn't seem to be very well known - I think that at the very least, the basics need to be made clear. I.e bottles to be sterile, water above 70 to be added to powder and the reasons for this. That way if people adapt the guidance slightly, they will hopefully follow the most important part. I think it is understanding the reasons for guidelines that is the important part.

What does everyone do with making up bottles out and about? We currently use cartons.

TheDetective Tue 26-Feb-13 15:17:41

No we're not! We are all just bumbling along the best we can!

I like how much knowledge I have gained from that thread!

For out and about I have an ice pack and an insulated bottle bag. If I am going out longer than 4 hours I'll take a carton. Or if I am going somewhere that it can't be warmed up.

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 15:30:02

I think I may invest in some ice packs. Was also thinking of getting a cool box to the store the feeds in the bedroom at night, but am thinking that is far too lazy considering we live in a flat.

SIL told me yesterday that she uses the same, big, bottle for all the night feeds rather than making separate ones (at the same time as telling me her baby sleeps through the night hmm ) Trying to think how to tell her that this is very unsafe. May have to direct her to some guidelines. Can't believe how little advice is offered about ff compared to bf. I understand that medical professionals have to promote 'breast is best' but surely people need to know how to ff safely.

TheDetective Tue 26-Feb-13 15:33:08

Does she mean the same big bottle of prepared formula?

Hope so!!!

confused

Agree about the lack advice. I'm not sure how it can be improved though.

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 15:44:39

Nope, not ready made formula....

I think I owe it to my nephew to tell her. Yes. I will do that.

TheDetective Tue 26-Feb-13 15:46:46

Do you know the DOH leaflet? I can link it. It is the current guidelines smile

You could suggest she talk to her HV about making up and storage of formula. Tell her yours told you that it shouldn't be done that way?

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 15:49:46

Ahh yes that's the leaflet I used I think. Unless it was the WHO one. I think I will send her the link in a 'ooh look what I just came across, isn't that interesting' kind of way...

We have the same HV so may keep her out of it just in case!

EmmaGellerGreen Tue 26-Feb-13 15:58:39

Brilliant thread, really hope it stays positive and supportive. My ds is now 5 but was formula fed. No faff at all.

EmmaGellerGreen Tue 26-Feb-13 15:58:39

Brilliant thread, really hope it stays positive and supportive. My ds is now 5 but was formula fed. No faff at all.

ChairmanWow Tue 26-Feb-13 16:24:21

Rhino and Sweetpea thanks for the tip re not using boiling water. If we ff this time I'll deffo follow that advice. I think we were so conscious of killing off nasties that we didn't think about killing off the good stuff. Thankfully DS seems to have come out of it unscathed.

Thanks for the book tip Sweetpea. I wish I'd known about it last time. I really beat myself up big time. I think I might read it now anyway as there's still some unresolved stuff there - that other thread made me realise how upsetting I still find it.

Re HVs/MWs - I had fab support whilst trying to BF and they weren't judgy at all when I stopped, but we were given zero advice on ff (as my posts so far have revealed smile). Didn't think about it at the time but that's just rubbish isn't it. Will be much pushier this time if we go down that road. Funny that there is evidence of increased gastric infections with formula, presumably due to preparation and storage, but advice isn't routinely given to try and reduce this.

Biblio Tue 26-Feb-13 17:45:48

Hello, what a nice thread. I started ff when my dd was about 2 months, after a horrible horrible time trying to bf. I felt so awful about it but I'm so glad to hear about others who do it too, feel like less of a monster mum!

My MW/HV were supportive but not actually that helpful, apart from saying "follow the instructions on the packet"! No info about teat sizes, burping, reflux, anything. Most helpful were threads like this one. We had lots of bf prep classes before the birth, but why aren't the nhs realistic about the fact that women may have to ff for various reasons and may as well be given proper information from the start before it becomes a miserable guilt-fest?

I will check out the book suggested, thank you

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 18:39:19

Chairman I've never seen the boiling water advice anywhere else and my midwife said that another formula company (Aptimil possibly) had told her that boiling water was fine to use hmm So I wouldn't take it as gospel but I figure that C&G should know their own product well enough to advise and it does make sense.

Can't take credit for the book sorry, think that was Zara

Zara1984 Tue 26-Feb-13 19:47:41

TheDetective

Righto. Two scenarios based on the info you've given me

Scenario A - Using Staydown Formula
You're not going to be able to get cooled boiled water thru security. Nope. They'll make you pour it away or just give you loads of grief, especially if it's Heathrow.

Pack your 3 sterilised bottles. Pack a skinny thermos (eg 0.5L). Pack enough powder (plus your scoop) in a plastic tupperware box for SIX bottles (in case of flight delay etc).

Once you get through security, go to a cafe and ask them to fill up your thermos with boiling water. Measure out enough into your two bottles (ie so they can start to cool down ready for next feed) and get them to fill up your thermos again for the third bottle/fill third bottle directly. Now you can get the crew to do this on the plane with their hot water taps but to be honest it's just a hassle to get hold of them when your baby is hungry, so do it before you board at the airport. If your baby is hungry while the water is still very hot (it's hard to find a cold water tap in an airport to run the bottle under), then get a bottle of Evian or Volvic (ie low sodium mineral water) and mix boiling water and bottled water to right amount (usually half and half gets you to room temp) and then add powder. You're just going to have to disregard the 70 degree rule here for practical reasons.

Scenario B - Using Regular Formula

This is WAY easier! Ok, pack your 3 sterilised bottles. As for packing pre-mades, security are real bastards about this (esp Heathrow) and they could randomly let you through or make you open half, taste some etc. So what you need to do (aside from having a fourth bottle with a feed/carton in case you need to feed baby before security) is order your pre-mades to pick up at Boots after security. If you're going through Heathrow you can do it online - as for other airports, if it's not available online call up the airside Boots and ask them to reserve you some. You need to reserve 3 days before you fly.

Order 5 or 6 cartons - again in case of delays etc, getting to your destination at the other end AND FOR THE RETURN TRIP (unless you pack some in your checked luggage) in case you can't buy the premades you need in Switzerland.

For the flight back pack some powder in a tupperware in case Swiss security gives you grief about the cartons - but to be honest I've only found that UK airports are bloody stupid about them.

Generally For Your Trip
Some, not all babies get sore ears during take-off and landing. Start feeding baby (or give pacifier) as you're heading down the runway. If you're feeding, don't start before then or you'll run out during the climb.

If your baby likes bottle warmed, then the crew will do this for you. They are generally quite helpful!

Sterilising - you could do Milton in eg hotel sink/wherever you're staying. But the easiest and best thing is to get a Milton Solo Travel Steriliser - you can sterilise using a quarter of a Milton tab or in the microwave. Fits one bottle and a dummy, and your teat tongs. Cold water sterilises in 15 mins. It's bloody brilliant and saved my bacon, hands down one of the best things I have ever bought. I used it (along with a skinny Boots bottle brush and tiny bottle of washing up liquid) to sterilise DS' bottles easily and quickly in a aircraft toilet repeatedly during 35+ hours of flying. Also used it when DS was in hospital at 6 weeks.

Water - as I said above, you can use Evian or Volvic in a pinch to make up bottles. These are low-sodium waters so suitable to babies. Yes yes I know you are not meant to use mineral water and you are meant to boil it/70 degrees but when you are travelling you just have to be more practical (when the baby is hungry!!).

Pack one nappy for every hour of your flight. And 2 changes of clothes (based on your flight time). And a change in top for you and your travel companion. Trust me on this one. Babies, planes and poo explosions seem to go together confused

BeehavingBaby Tue 26-Feb-13 20:04:20

My instant warm bottle method went as follows if it helps anyone, you may think it was bonkers but was the only instant, fulfil all guidelines way I could think of!

For eg. 6oz bottle:

3oz boiling water in sterile bottle (or any sterile container, bottle just easy and visibly correct volume), into fridge.

To make feed, measure 3oz water straight from kettle into bottle, add 6 scoops formula powder, shake, then add contents of the fridge bottle, perfect fussy mixed fed baby bottle smile.

Was only one a day so wasn't worried about about the enzymes etc being killed off so much, but would 3oz water in the bottle would probably cool down to 80deg pretty quick.

May also sound bonkers, but I used glass bottles and found them very helpful ads the contents can be warmed or cooled by standing in water in literally seconds due to the lack of plastic insulating it.

sweetpea1112 Tue 26-Feb-13 20:22:33

Wow zara excellent advice. Think I may have to make a note of that for any future travels.

ChunkysMum Tue 26-Feb-13 20:51:11

My tips for easy middle of the night feeding:

I make up the bottle before bed and cool it down to really cold. I then put it in an ice box with plenty of ice packs to keep cold.

I have a thermos flask of just the right amount of hot water to warm a bottle & a container to warm the bottle in.

I put the icebox + bottle, the thermos flask of boiling water and the container next to my bed.

When I hear my baby stirring, I tip the boiling water into the container & add the bottle. I can do this in the dark while still half asleep. The bottle is then ready in a couple of minutes without me having to have got out of bed or turn the light out.

I then feed my baby.

Hope this helps someone.

NappyHappy Tue 26-Feb-13 21:42:08

Can I join please? I've ff all the boys and never found it a faff. With ds1 I didn't know you had to wash the bottles first, I just rinsed them out and chucked them in the stetilising solution! I did this for a day or 2 and was talking about it with someone who told me I had to wash them first. No information was given about making up bottles. This was only 5 years ago! Bottles made up each night and put in the fridge and warmed up in a jug of hot water.

With ds2 & 3 I knew what I was doing more then!

Ds2's night bottles - cooled boiled water left in the bottle on the counter top in the kitchen and milk powder left next to it. Now he is 16m I give put him in his cot with his milk.

ds3's left in fridge and blasted for 30 secs in the microwave, quick shake then feed. He is a puker, my goodness. Got him weighed today and he's dropped 2 centiles since birth, he's 23w now. He's not been into feeding since I got him home and syringe fed him for a few days til he came round a bit more! Now has 4X 6oz a day.

I read that Fred and can't be doing with what it was turning into.

scissy Wed 27-Feb-13 11:29:49

I have a 4 week old DD who is now almost exclusively ff after matching issues. Agree about lack of advice, it's a right pain! Anyway, my question is, I realise there are different teat sizes for bottles (am using avent) - how do I know when she's ready for the next size up as she's approaching the age for the next teat size? Or do I just start using the next one when she's a month old?

sweetpea1112 Wed 27-Feb-13 11:32:51

Scissy, my DS is 3 months old and still using size one teats. I have tried size two a couple of times as he is quite a slow feeder but they made him cough, dribble and throw up so changed back down to ones again.

I think if they appear to be getting frustrated with not getting milk out fast enough then you could try the next size up. But I pay no attention to the age guides on the teat and do what suits my baby.

wigglesrock Wed 27-Feb-13 12:56:57

scissy with mine when I thought they were ready for a faster teat, ie sucking harder, frustration I used a needle to make the hole in the teat slightly bigger, if that helped alleviate the frustration I then went and bought faster teats. But you don't have to move them up.

NappyHappy Wed 27-Feb-13 20:32:20

Same here, ds3 is a super slow feeder (apart from today which is odd) and have gone up teat sizes before the recommended age. It took him a day or so to get used to the new flow wink

I'm using the new shaped Avent ones and they seem OK.

Each time I was in hospital having the boys there was no info on how to make up formula correctly, I guessed and ds1 ended up Ill.

Scissy - mine wasn't ready for the next teat until he was 8 months! Anything other than the size 1 resulted in massive vomiting afterwards. So just adjust the teats when you feel your baby is ready. We now use the 'vari-flow' ones, which have a X rather than a hole, meaning the X opens up bigger depending on how hard baby sucks - makes sense?

Zara - that is FAB advice for travelling with a baby. Another good tip : get some of those 'zip-lock' freezer bags, and fill each on with a different complete outfit - maybe take 3 on the flight. Saves digging around in your bag for a clean vest and socks!

Another tip regarding Tommee Tippee bottles. I love them, and they're the only thing my baby can use without throwing up afterwards. But after 4 months of inconsistant use (was mix-fed), the markings began to rub off. Rang the TT helpline, sent off 4 old bottles and got 4 lovely new replacements abour 2 days later!

scissy Thu 28-Feb-13 08:21:56

Thanks all, that's useful to know. She's a slow feeder too, and can also be rather sicky, hadn't thought a different bottle brand might make a difference!

Zara1984 Thu 28-Feb-13 08:52:56

YY to ziplock bags

thehumanegg Thu 28-Feb-13 12:39:28

Re taking formula on planes- although its obviously sensible to prepare for the worst, it wasn't too bad for us. We flew from heathrow- America and only had to open 1 premade carton which they apologised for, they were quite relaxed about it, the same on the way back. I had been dreading this for months and took about 3 times more than we needed.

wigglesrock Thu 28-Feb-13 12:45:52

oh on a complete tangent if anyone is going away on holiday this year and has access to a microwave we used microwave steriliser bags for all of our dds - they were really handy.

Zara1984 Thu 28-Feb-13 12:52:15

Humanegg yeah it's hit and miss - on the way out was fine, but on way back they confiscated 50% and made me open and taste 50% of the rest confused

DangerMousey Thu 28-Feb-13 13:17:55

Hey ladies thanks for starting this thread. DS1 is 12 weeks old and FF since 10 days old after BF nightmare.

I felt massively guilty and upset when I gave up BF - i had no idea it was going to be so hard. The birth (of 9lb 3oz DS vaginally with just G&A) was a complete piece of piss compared to the 10 day horrowshow of breastfeeding which followed.

Anyway, DS is now thriving and loves his bottles and I just thank god that I live in this century and that formula is available as an alternative when BF isn't working out for whatever reason. I didnt see the other thread you're talking about, but I am think it's outrageous that anyone would try to make me feel any more guilty than I already do about not being able to BF my son!! It was a tough shitty decision I made, but ultimately DS was instantly more settled, happy and put on weight and that's what matters.

This is how I do our night bottles:

Before I go to bed I make them up using hot, recently-boiled water from the kettle as-per the manufacturers instructions. I then quickly cool the bottles of formula down in icy water, and then shove them in the back of the fridge. When DS wakes for a night feed, I get a bottle out of the fridge, remove teat/lid, microwave it for 30 seconds to bring to room temperature, give it a good swill round, then microwave again for 20 secs so it's nice and warm how DS likes it.

(I know the advice is against microwaving, but that is only because of the risk of hot spots/scalding - not cos of any inherent risk in heating the milk that way....i always swill it around very well to disperse and hotspots and sprinkle it on my tongue - gross! - to check it's not too hot before serving to my son).

Incidentally, during the day if we're going out an about, I take a thermos flask with hot water from the kettle which has cooled for 15-30 mins as per the manufacturers instructions. And I measure out the right number of scoops of formula into a little formula storage tub from Boots. The when DS needs feeding, I simply get a sterile bottle out of my changing bag, pour in 6oz of hot water from my flask, add the powder, shake, wait for it to cool for few minutes, and serve!

thehumanegg Thu 28-Feb-13 18:48:34

zara 50% is totally ridiculous, that's the kind of thing I was expecting. Super annoying. I think it being Christmas and super busy helped, shame they're not that rational year round.

TheDetective Thu 28-Feb-13 20:54:31

How can they make you taste them?! I'd vomit quite frankly. There's no way I'm tasting them. DS1 can!

Also once open they aren't sterile so that isn't possible to open them. confused

Dicks. Grrrrr.

I'm flying with easyjet and as far as I can see there won't be a problem taking water and powder. Well, there better not be! The info on their website suggests it will be fine!!

Zara1984 Thu 28-Feb-13 21:15:33

Aptamil tastes like shite, I can confirm. <boak> had to take great big swigs out of two cartons confused

They know it's no longer sterile when it's opened too, they just apologise and say those are the rules.

Be prepared in case they are assholes and take the water off you, Detective! EasyJet has no control over airport security!

Zara1984 Thu 28-Feb-13 21:16:05

I fed DS with one of the ones the opened and I chucked the other one out.

OooohShiny Thu 28-Feb-13 21:50:27

Very similar to a few of you...my DS is FF and has been since quite early on due to various issues.

Currently because of reflux and CMP allergy he is on Neocate and infant gaviscon) which has to be made with water which has been cooled for 30 minutes. For this reason I make up his bottles in advance (3 in the morning for daytime and 3 in the evening for nighttime).

I fill & boil kettle and set timer for 30 minutes then, when water is cooled enough fill flask to brim and set aside. I boil the kettle again and use the boiling water to mix the infant gaviscon (just a teeny amount) and once that has dissolved and cooled I add water from the flask and pre-measured out formula. Flash cool in iced water then straight into back of fridge.

I remove top and heat for 30 seconds in the microwave then swirl about for a minute to take the chill off before feeding.

When out and about I have the same routine almost but have to pre-mix the gaviscon before leaving the house (30 minute cooled water won't dissolve the gaviscon) and I also carry a bottle of iced boiled water to top up the bottle to cool down.

I can see that flying might not be suitable for us for some time sad

Zara1984 Thu 28-Feb-13 22:00:37

Ooohshiny in your case you could get a GP note to exempt you from security requirements so you could take water through etc xx

OooohShiny Thu 28-Feb-13 22:10:25

Doh...never thought of that Zara

Other than flexible ice packs and insulated bags can anyone think how to keep his medicine 'fridge cold' for any longer than a couple of hours?

TheDetective Thu 28-Feb-13 22:20:41

Do you think a GP exempt note might work for us Zara with needing very cold previously boiled water, and each feed has to be made up as required?

Anyone know anything about getting SMA staydown on prescription? Someone mentioned to me that you could. I had no idea. Feel a bit cheeky, but hey, I'm on maternity leave, shit pay, and quite frankly, a freebie would be freaking fabulous!

Em2010 Thu 28-Feb-13 22:23:17

This is a great thread! Thanks for starting it! I'm currently 39+3 weeks pregnant with dc2. DS was ff after bf went very badly. I struggled to get any reliable information on safely/conveniently making up bottles with lots of conflicting advice from professionals. DS was on formula until he turned 2 by which stage I had become rather lax about making up bottles (sterile feeding seemed less important once he went to nursery and started eating mud...) Although i'm going to give bf another go I will be watching this thread with great interest for my refresher course in FF!

Tanya28 Fri 01-Mar-13 03:19:17

Ooh shiny I'm in the same boat with my daughter who is now 22 months old, we flew with her when she was 6weeks old to Spain, we had a letter from the dietician and carried the neocate all as hand baggage (my paranoia that it would get lost in the hold) and took plenty of water and I just had to test each bottle. Even last year when we flew to the states it was just the same, no problems at all!

Pikz Fri 01-Mar-13 10:24:36

Zara thank you... You have just saved my million questions about travelling with ff.

We are 14 weeks, 12 express fed and now 2 weeks mix fed with 80% ff now. The only bit I'm struggling with is night times. Have got confident with powder during day now.

Zara1984 Fri 01-Mar-13 13:33:20

Y Detective I think a doctor's note would work. They are generally pretty good with doctor's notes. The most vigorous questioning I've heard of is when DH's colleague had to take glycerin for his daughter on a plane, as that's an ingredient in bombs they were very iffy! But because there was a doctor's note it's ok. Worst case scenario they take the water off you, then you go and get chilled Evian or Volvic from a shop as your emergency backup, these are suitable bottled waters to use for babies as they're low sodium. Yes not ideal, but it's good to have a backup.

Ooohshiny the crew should be able to put his medicine in the fridge in the galley. Keep in an insulated bag till you get to the gate, then as soon as you board give to the flight attendant to put in fridge.

Zara1984 Fri 01-Mar-13 13:38:37

Ooohshiny you could also pack some instant cold packs to help keep medicine cold till you get to your destination/fridge in your accomodation. Ie, snap cold pack into use, put in insulated bag. Put medicine inside!

smellsofsick Sun 03-Mar-13 18:25:23

'Ello. Ff fed DD2 here too due to latching issues.

Quick question: my DD is squirming and crying pretty much every feed at the mo. I don't think it's reflux, though she has just started posseting a small amount and I'm not sure it's wind. Any thoughts?

Anyway, good thread and detective where are you going in Switzerland? We live here and you're welcome to use my steriliser if you're nearby!

sweetpea1112 Sun 03-Mar-13 18:50:24

Hi smells could it be frustration at the flow being too slow? How old is your DD?

smellsofsick Sun 03-Mar-13 19:24:24

Sweet, she's ten weeks. I BF DD1 so I have no idea about bottles at this age. That's a good point though, I'll step up a teat size. Thanks!

sweetpea1112 Sun 03-Mar-13 19:26:17

No problem smile. I'm no expert but ten weeks doesn't seem like an unreasonable age to try the next size. My DS is 13 weeks though and still on size ones but he is a slow drinker and gets too overwhelmed with a faster teat, bless him.

TheDetective Sun 03-Mar-13 19:39:26

smells i would try the next teat up too.

I'm going to Vevey!

We have just ditched the Avent bottles in favour of NUK. DS2 loves them. Why didn't I change them sooner waaaaaaaaaaah! Love love love them! I could cry at thinking about all the money I have wasted on those bottles, and having to get 3 different sized teats! the NUK ones are from 0-6 months, then 6 months plus.

MiffieandMaddy Sun 03-Mar-13 19:39:53

Hi there, I have been so interested in this thread. As a first time mum, who formula fed for personal reasons, I was going mad trying to feed on demand and follow the whole, boil the kettle and leave for 30 minutes palava, or the whole thermos thing and then running under tap in middle of night. I was so confused and none of the HV or midwives would help and just refered me to the packet instructions. However I called one of the big brand hotlines in tears one night about 2am and spoke to a wonderful kind lady. She told me to make a batch of bottles up with the 70degree water, cool and then place in fridge and use within 12 hours. I made up fresh in the day, but at night did just that. She said not to tell anyone she had told me it was okay. Basically the guidelines were changed because lots of formula feeding mums were storing bottles over 24 hours and this was making babies sick.

The formula MUST hit hot water. Boiling the water putting in bottles and letting it cool, then adding formula when you want a feed is NOT okay, becasue the formula is not sterile.

I have now changed to HIPP organic and you cant store these feeds because of the friendly bacteria. However I put freshly boiled water in the bottle and place in a washing up bowl of cold water. I then set a stop watch and timed how long it took for say 180ml to cool to the desired temperature. I then add formula, shake and cool to drinking temp. (note, you would need to make sure you used the same washing up bowl filled to the same level each time, and you have to retime it if you increase the feed amount). This all takes only about 4 minutes so I can easily make up fresh each time. Little one is sleeping through night now, and if she wakes up I use a carton.

Just thought I would share, as there is NO support for formula feeders at all, apart from the helplines from the big companies....

sweetpea1112 Sun 03-Mar-13 19:53:07

Hi Miffie,

I make up feeds in advance as well, both day and night. I feed on demand too and it was getting quite unmanageable. Much easier now smile

wigglesrock Sun 03-Mar-13 19:59:08

That's how I made my bottles up to, but this way is mentioned in NHS guide to Bottle feeding leaflet which can be accessed from midwives, health visitors or downloaded. I have formula fed 3 children from birth and was given this leaflet before I left the hospital and how I actually made the bottles up ie adding powder to water not other way round was checked several times by community midwife who called out shortly after each each birth.

NappyHappy Mon 04-Mar-13 09:44:23

Do the NUK teats have the same shape as the standard Avent ones? I'm using the new shaped Avent ones with ds3 and moved up a size a couple of days ago in the hope he'll feed better but he still faff about.

I didn't realise in emergencies you could use bottled water, thank you!

Out of all 3 boys I was only ever quickly briefed on how to correctly make up bottles (2nd baby)

thehumanegg Mon 04-Mar-13 17:15:17

Btw if using ready made cartons, there's a way of opening without scissors which is quick once you've done it a few times. If you peel the outside shiny layer off the bit you'd cut, the whole corner will then rip off quite easily. Maybe this is what everyone does buy it took me about 4 months to discover.

Zara1984 Mon 04-Mar-13 17:22:51

Doh I should have thought of that humanegg.... Had to teach myself to rip open the cartons for feeding on a plane. That sounds way easier!!

Nappy, the classic Avents are quite long. Nuk are a bit flat at the end IIRC?

Wondering what you all do about the bits of powder that get caked in scoop when making up bottles (ie steam from water making powder stick to scoop). I wipe it off with a clean paper towel....? Is this the right thing to do?

Zara1984 Mon 04-Mar-13 17:28:56

And what sterilising methods do you all use? Milton, microwave or standalone steriliser?

Which is least faff and cheapest? I have a microwave one. Didn't choose it as such, my mate bought me the same kit she has when I rang her in tears from the hospital...! confused

Sometimes wonder if standalone is best. But they're a bit pricey and take up bench space. Microwave one only takes 4 bottles which means I have to do 2 sterilising runs in the evening when I do the bottles.

wigglesrock Mon 04-Mar-13 17:38:42

I kept spare scoops from finished tins so always had a "dry" scoop.

With my elder 2 I used a stand alone electric steriliser but I had to get a new one for my 3rd and got a microwave one I loved it grin Thought it was so much quicker, cleaner, neater than my old one.

sweetpea1112 Mon 04-Mar-13 18:07:50

I have a standalone steriliser which holds 6 bottles and I love it.

I either clean the scoop after every two bottles, then dry with a clean paper towel, or measure the required powder into those formula powder pots (one per bottle) and pour them in, thus "saving" the scoop.

Chocaholics Mon 04-Mar-13 19:21:14

This is a great thread. DS is 6 weeks old and I am mixed feeding. I feed him then top him up with formula. Having to do this as I started ebf but after 2 weeks he hadn't put any weight on at all and was losing weight again. The exact same thing happened with my DD but I was still really upset by it. My DH and MW were fab though and kept telling me the only important thing is a healthy baby and that DD did absolutely fine with this method. Still felt a failure though but am ok about it now.

The tips about the holiday are great, we are going away later in the year and never even though about sterilising bottles and how to take formula on the plane.

TheDetective Mon 04-Mar-13 19:21:54

I've got a steam steriliser. Downside is, it might tell you it takes 9 minutes, but it often takes longer, and they are too hot to handle when done. So you are waiting ages for the bloody things!

I've got a good tip for you! I rang my GP on friday and asked could I get the SMA Staydown on prescription as it was recommended by the health visitor to try him on. I explained I had bought the first tin and tried him and he was much better on it. So now we've got it on prescription! Excellent! That will save me around £15 a week!

The Nuk bottles have started blocking at the teat. Would you make the hole bigger? I don't want to change the teats because it is already a fast flow. Might ring Nuk and see what they suggest actually, because they weren't doing it at first, now every bottle today has done it. confused

Zara1984 Mon 04-Mar-13 19:33:30

That is fantastic Detective! I'm really pleased for you, that's a great saving!

My fingertips were numb and tingly in the early months from handling really hot bottles confused

Zara1984 Mon 04-Mar-13 19:35:02

Chocaholics be kind to yourself xx you're doing really well! You have absolutely nothing to feel guilty about, consider reading the Bottled Up book

NappyHappy Mon 04-Mar-13 20:24:17

That book sounds great.smile

I'm using a microwave steriliser this time round and with the other 2 boys it was Milton and electric. Definitely prefer the microwave one! I'll let the bottles cool down then put the powder in then the hot water on top. When I do it water first I'll rattle the scoop off the insides of the carton, I don't think using a paper towel or even your finger to clean the scoop out really matters as the hot water will be sterilising the powder.

I know what you mean about the shape of the NUK teats, as if they've had a slice taken off the end.

That's good to know about the cartons, thanks! wink

And the SMA? You don't ask you don't get. Excellent, £15 is a lot. We've not had any puking the last few days so hopefully funny face will have put some weight on. At least with bottles I can see how much he is taking.

Pikz Mon 04-Mar-13 21:03:12

I was microwave but when he got thrush I swapped to Milton to get rid and have never looked back. The microwave one seems such a faff compared to Milton for me.

NappyHappy Mon 04-Mar-13 21:14:35

Do you leave the bottles to dry out first before you fill them? I can't remember what I did with them blush

Chocaholics Mon 04-Mar-13 21:28:49

I know Zara1984, I am ok now with ff, I think because I never managed to ebf with DD I really wanted to this time round but everyone is right, a healthy happy baby is all that matters and both my children are so I'm very lucky. Will go and buy the book you've recommended as does sound like it will help.

Phineyj Mon 04-Mar-13 21:43:53

Great thread!

This is a gadget we've found useful -- it cools boiling water to drinking temperature instantly. I have calculated it saves up to 5 mins of DD screaming...!

www.amazon.co.uk/Twister-boiling-desired-temperature-Preparation/dp/B000NAZZSE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1362432234&sr=8-1

TheDetective Mon 04-Mar-13 22:07:35

Not with the steam steriliser, I just shake the excess out and fill away!

NappyHappy Mon 04-Mar-13 22:11:50

I've got very sore skin on my hands so have to leave them to cool down first wink

That gadget is cool. What a great idea! When I have to cool things GS quick I'll stick bottle in a jug of cold water then straight in the fridge, still takes ages but that gadget is brill!

Zara1984 Tue 05-Mar-13 07:39:09

Phiney that water gadget looks seriously cool! (No pun intended...!)

EggsMichelle Wed 06-Mar-13 16:42:24

Found this thread a few days ago and have been reading and absorbing every comment since. DS is 13wks old and bf until he was 11wks. Poor supply and unhappy mum and baby led to ff and although I get guilty pangs on a daily basis, DS is so much happier and content (currently giggling and squealing on his play gym).

I found this document helpful when I first started ff www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/formulaguidance.pdf although am still struggling with the idea of traveling with bottle so thank you for all the advice. We don't plan to be flying this year, but do enjoy long car journeys so storing of ff is essential.

NappyHappy Wed 06-Mar-13 23:46:08

Hi Eggs, ds3 sucked until my nipples turned black, nothing was coming out of them. This was after him being on each side for 1.5 hours then screaming when I took him off. This was on the day he was born. Along with the family situation at home it was best for us to ff.

I am still impressed with that bottle cooler grin

Does anyone live in Manc?

Just wondering how many fulltime FF mums feed on demand? Now LO is on formula full time, all his bottles are made up in advance and he feeds at certain times (7am, 2.30pm and 6.30pm). He is 10 months and full established on solids.
When he was mix-fed (0-3 months and then 6-8 months) I BF and FF on demand, depending on how I was feeling smile

Lora1982 Thu 07-Mar-13 17:20:01

Just a quick question, surely the formula would become sterile if its in the bottle then warmed upto 70-80?

Anyone else mix feeding? I only have one decent boob so ff makes life easier for me... And im all for doing this job the easy way!

sweetpea1112 Thu 07-Mar-13 19:24:11

visualise DS is 14 weeks and ff fed and I feed on demand smile. He averages every three hours.

Zara1984 Thu 07-Mar-13 19:30:47

Visualize I FF my DS on demand, but he settled into a bit of a pattern by 8-10 weeks. He is 4.5 months now and generally takes 5 feeds a day, but may take a 6th one in the late afternoon.

Got advice from Aptamil helpline yesterday about growth spurts and amounts DS is taking (he's eating more than normal this week) - it is a fantastic service, faster than your HV!! Would really recommend, their nurses are really helpful on all sorts of feeding issues including mixed feeding and shifting from bf to ff.

Pikz Thu 07-Mar-13 20:46:32

I too on demand. I did when expressing and now still on ff. he's in quite a pattern now though at 14 weeks.

wigglesrock Thu 07-Mar-13 20:51:15

I fed all my 3 on demand. They were all formula fed from birth. Probably would have worked out at around every 3 hours but when they were newborns to about 6 weeks or so it probably was more like every 2.5 hours. They all also clusterfed especially in the late afternoon.

NappyHappy Fri 08-Mar-13 11:39:47

I ff them all when they were hungry, my mum was surprised I didn't have them on a 4 hour routine from birth! I told her would she like to be starved for a few hours?!

With the first 2 they wanted feeding every 2 hours or so til they were about 4-5 months old then it spaced out more. DS3 is 6 months and goes 4-5 hours day and night and is a pain to feed, he laughs at me which is cute though. DS2&3 cluster fed a lot in the evening in the first month or so too. smile

It is easier just making up all the bottles in one go then chucking them in the fridge til use. grin

GingerDoodle Fri 08-Mar-13 21:00:05

I batch sterilise my 4 big and 1 small bottles (electric steam steriliser) and use them as needed throughout the day.

At night i make up two bottles. One goes in a cold bag with ice packs to take up stairs for the night/ morning feed, the other in the fridge for the morning / lunch feed.

I use aptimil ready made bottles (and cartons if I am out), more expensive but I prefer just pouring it out (lazy!).

My DD will drink it cold but I usually run some hot water into a jug and warm it for a few minutes if its been chilled.

I think its awful there is not more information on ff. I really struggled with knowing how much my DD should be having when she was small.

Zara1984 Fri 15-Mar-13 17:47:06

Bump bump

How are we all doing ladies?

TheDetective Fri 15-Mar-13 18:43:55

Ahhh, crap here!

I need your Gaviscon administering tips ladies!!!!

OooohShiny Sat 16-Mar-13 08:31:53

Detective, I mix gaviscon in the bottle with a teeny bit of just boiled water first, you can see then that is has all dissolved and there are no lumps, Ido the same for out and about. Once that has been done I top up with my usual flask water and formula ( my theory being that the boiled water has cooled enough and is so little that it makes no significant difference to the temperature).

NappyHappy Sun 17-Mar-13 15:00:21

What size teats are you using Detective? Whenever I've had to use Gavisvon I've found that its thickened the milk more so ended up going up a size.

I've a question for you too Ladies, ds3 is on size 4 teats and is collapsing them, do I make the holes bigger with a pin? I can't see the variflow ones for them.

OooohShiny Sun 17-Mar-13 15:45:35

Yy Nappy, I forgot to mention that - luckily neocate is o thin it makes no great difference but experienced teat blockage many, many times before we switched to that.

Is it Avent you're using Nappy? I'd try the pin on the size 4 if so as the variflow even at their max are slower than the 4's

TheDetective Sun 17-Mar-13 16:08:19

I think we have solved the Gaviscon problem. One dose is enough rather than the 2 he is supposed to have! He wouldn't have 8oz, so putting 8oz and 2 doses in meant he wasn't getting the right dose anyway. So he is having 6oz with one dose.

Seems to be working!

The teats aren't blocking. He's on NUK bottles, we have both the medium and large teats, and he is fine with the medium. The large was too fast, waaaaay too fast, and we got that for the staydown formula is it was blocking the medium flow. But the large is a bit ridiculous. Might ring NUK and ask for a bloody refund because we'll never be able to use them.

NappyHappy Sun 17-Mar-13 16:24:35

Thanks Shiney I'll heat up a pin later when I find one! Its the new shaped Avent ones, he's taking waaay over an hour to have 7-8oz too. Plus its weaning time so don't know how he's gonna fut it all in! He isn't liking spoons so finger foods it is I think!

That's ace Detective, always good when you get things sorted. Is the Gaviscon doing its job?

NappyHappy Sun 17-Mar-13 16:24:35

Thanks Shiney I'll heat up a pin later when I find one! Its the new shaped Avent ones, he's taking waaay over an hour to have 7-8oz too. Plus its weaning time so don't know how he's gonna fut it all in! He isn't liking spoons so finger foods it is I think!

That's ace Detective, always good when you get things sorted. Is the Gaviscon doing its job?

TheDetective Sun 17-Mar-13 16:37:04

Yes, it is at the moment! I think we are on to a winner here. We are on lactose free milk, gaviscon, and ranitidine. It seems pretty good now. I don't want to count my chickens though........!

Pikz Sun 17-Mar-13 17:46:08

I have a very possetting baby especially since broncholitis. Any advice?

NappyHappy Sun 17-Mar-13 19:48:38

Oh no, poor lamb sad just sit baby upright and wind every couple of oz. That's all I can think of. sad

ChasingDaisy Sun 17-Mar-13 20:00:59

Perhaps a smaller teat size for a while, whilst everything recovers?

zigwig Sun 17-Mar-13 20:11:49

I could use a bit of advice please. My bubba is now 4 weeks old and has been really suffering from what I assume is trapped wind for the last two. We've been using infacol and it helps but for the last few days it seems to be getting worse again and today he has been throwing up some of his feeds and trumping for Britain. We also try things like massage and frequent winding etc.. which all seem to help but I'm wondering what's worth trying next. Do I try changing bottles? One of our mw recommended dr Brown's bottles but they're an expensive outlay if they don't help. Or is it worth switching formula to the aptamil comfort? Has anyone any experience using it and did it help? Or has anyone got any other suggestions? Help!

Zara1984 Sun 17-Mar-13 22:33:56

Sorry to hear about that zigwig!!

DS was very windy and farty (farting made him cry) too at that age and vomity too. For Infacol to be most effective you have to use at every feed. However you have to wind very very thoroughly or the joined up gas bubbles will go into intestines and be big painful farts.

Bicycling legs helped DS a lot. When we thought he might not blurk everywhere we would do a couple of minutes tummy time (they can do it from birth!) and that would often bring up wind!

Different winding techniques can help. DS' wind best comes up by sitting him on lap, rubbing back. Another good technique is to lay over your lap and gently pat bum.

How often during the bottle are you winding? At that age we had to wind after each 1/3 bottle.

Gripe water was pointless shite and made the bottles smell like dill, grrr!

We never changed formulas (he's always been on Aptamil). Would very much recommend the Aptamil helpline or live chat, it's staffed by nurses. If you explain the situation they could advise whether switching formula is a good idea. Obv best to check with your GP and HV but I find it's faster to get an answer out of Aptamil helpline...!

It's very common at this age and I thought it would never get better, but by 8 weeks it was noticeably better and by 12 weeks pretty much resolved. The intestines of a baby are working much better after even 6 weeks - it is all new after all and working out the kinks!

Zara1984 Sun 17-Mar-13 22:38:58

With persistent wind and colicky behaviour, I have heard lots of good things about Dr Browns bottles, too. Obv if you can get some improvement without buying new kit, that's better!

I stressed so much about this when DS was that age but it is a bit of a case of riding it out.

BriocheBriocheBrioche Sat 23-Mar-13 12:09:44

Hello all...

Im just starting to mix feed my 3 month old dd and am getting confused already!!!

I bf on demand and for the moment am replacing the afternoon feed with a bottle of formula. I live in France where the guidlines are to use mineral water and no mention of heating the water to kill bacteria etc. As she feeds on demand its difficult to wait 30 mins for the water to cool down and then cool the bottle after.
Yesterday I put about 60ml of cooled (left it about ten mins) boiled mineral water in the bottle, added formula, shook and then added room temperature mineral water to make it up to 150ml and to a good temperature. Is that ok? Also when im out I will be able to get hot water from a cafe or restaurant but it won't be mineral water?
Any advice or tips would be welcomed!
Thanks.

Phineyj Mon 01-Apr-13 18:55:18

Hi Brioche this thread seems to have died...but what I would recommend for cooling water to the exact temperature needed is this gadget (you keep it in the fridge):
www.amazon.co.uk/Twister-boiling-desired-temperature-Preparation/dp/B000NAZZSE/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1364838351&sr=1-1

For feeding out and about the easiest thing is to use readymixed formula, if the brand you use offers it (we use the SMA bottles as they're easy to re-seal and I find tetrapaks a pain - the SMA ones can also be used with sterilised teats that you can buy from the supermarket vacuum packed - we keep some in the car in case of long traffic jams). The readymixed bottles are sterile till opened. You can put the prepared bottle into a jug or cup of hot water provided by the cafe or just give it to the baby at room temperature.

Alternatively, ask the cafe for boiling water and mix it with formula you have measured out and brought with you. Avent do a plastic tub thing you can measure up to 3 doses of formula into. Or take your own thermos flask of hot water.

For any of these methods (except if using the SMA teats that screw directly into the bottle) you need to take a pre-sterilised bottle with you, which you could keep in a cool bag if you want to be super careful (again Avent do one).

Another trick for cooling the bottle down quickly is (say if you were after an 180ml feed), make an 120ml feed with powder and boiling water then add 60ml from a readymixed formula bottle, keeping the remainder in the fridge till you need it. However, some posters have said that mixing the powder with boiling water affects the nutrients, so if you're worried about that the Cool Twister avoids that problem. A simple and free alternative is to keep a jug of cold water at the back of the fridge to cool bottles, but it's not as quick as the gadget and again there may be an issue with the nutrients.

Hope that helps -- it will become second nature after a while I'm sure!

iheartshoes Tue 30-Apr-13 19:14:05

Hi everyone hoping someone can help me ... My DD is 18 days old and after struggling with BF I want to get her on to formula. Could anyone give me any tips on the best way to do this ? Is it best to do it one feed at a time? At the moment she is on the boob all day every day it feels like so I couldn't really tell you what her usual times for feeding are, could we maybe start with a 10 pm feed or something tonight and see how we get on? I did start a new thread about this but have already been asked why I wanted to change from bf to ff and I don't really want to have to justify it after being in tears all day I've now had a lovely chat with my DH and decided it is the right thing for me and my DD so hoping to get some useful tips on here x

Charrin10 Tue 30-Apr-13 19:36:28

Hi, I was exactly the same at day 10, just couldn't do it anymore and was in tears. After speaking to the midwife (who was really supportive) we decided to ff at night (so my husband could do it whilst I got some sleep!) and bf in the day. We started straight away with no problems. The only downside to this is that my boobs were really full in the morning which resulted in my baby initially struggling to latch on because they were so hard.

Loads of people told me mixed feeding was a bad idea because my milk would dry up but I didn't find that. We are now on week 5 and over the past week have introduced more ff feeds in the day. I have had to express a little (I can't get much out anyway regardless of how full they are! ) just to relieve the fullness, however you don't want to express too much otherwise your breasts will keep generating more.

I hope this helps. I know others may have done things differently / can suggest other tips, but good luck! You need to do what's best for you all and a happy mummy equals a happy baby.

iheartshoes Tue 30-Apr-13 19:40:54

Thank you Charrin . Can I ask how often you give your baby a bottle of a night ?

Charrin10 Tue 30-Apr-13 19:54:16

Initially I bf him about 8pm but then gave him an ff top up as he was constantly rooting for more, then about 11 he had about 3oz ff which if I remember rightly he slept solidly until about 3 ( i think it was the shock of having so much milk, he almost had s 'drunk' look bless him) when he had another 3oz then about 6 I'd bf again. So initially he was having 2-3 bottles. Then we gradually introduced further bottles over the weeks.

I've found though that he will still have the odd constantly feeding stage (we are going through that now ) where he will want a bottle every 1 1/2 - 2 hours in the day but at night he usually sleeps in 3 hour stints. The only downside I've found to ff opposed to bf is when he's screaming for food you need the time to prepare the food rather than just puting him on the boob. But I suppose it just takes practice!

tiktok Tue 30-Apr-13 21:40:01

iheart, it's always best to change gradually if you can, and one bottle every few days (I don't mean one bottle every few days only - I mean if you give a bottle at X o'clock, then do it every day and then wait a few days before adding a bottle at Y o'clock smile ) This not only gives your breasts a chance to wind down production gradually and comfortably, but it leaves you with some flexibility in maintaining some bf if you want to for a wee while, and you can work out which pattern/timetabling of feeds suits you and your baby best.

The HV should be able to help you fine tune things.

Hope things work out for you.

roamingwest Tue 30-Apr-13 21:41:56

Oh I'm so glad I found this thread! 14 wo DD has been EBF and we've overcome thrush and tongue tie and I have loved bf her, and would love to do so for many more months.

However, when she is 5 months we will have a lot of changes to contend with - new city, new house, me going back to work and her starting nursery. None of this is avoidable or can be spread out timewise. I've thought about it a lot and am going to gradually switch to ff over the next month or so, to limit the amount of change she will have in July (well to take one change out of the equation anyway sad).

I have to be on the ball in work, I can't risk her screaming in nursery and refusing to drink, or reverse cycling and feeding all night. I'm not in the UK and while I know all the legal stuff about time off to bf / pump, my job just wouldn't be compatible with that approach i.e. I'm still in training. I'm getting comfortable with my decision... and I like having somewhere on MN that I don't have to justify it and am looking forward to DH and DM being able to feed her too.

So practically...I'm dropping her 2pm-ish feed first, and yesterday she downed a 3oz bottle of 50% ebm 50% formula. I thought she would have taken a lot more if there had been more in the bottle. Today however, there was 2/3 formula (thought I was onto a good thing!) and she only drank 2oz and was upset for the rest of the afternoon (I bf'd her after an hour or so - didn't want her to go hungry!), missed her nap and was generally out of sorts. I didn't know whether she stopped drinking because she was full up or whether she realised it was a bottle and freaked out - how can you tell!!?? I only have a teeny bit of ebm left in the freezer, so can't rely on mixing with formula for much longer. Also, if I'm pumping in the mornings to put ebm into bottles, doesn't this defeat the point somewhat?

I know this is a bit of an essay! Is it always this hard switching? RL friends have just 'dropped a feed and given a bottle instead' and it has gone smoothly. It's a very emotional thing for me to give up and even though she is only 3 months I think she is upset too and confused. I'm probably overthinking all of this, and definitely underestimated how hard it would be. Would appreciate some hand-holding from others who have been through similar smile.

Phineyj Tue 30-Apr-13 21:59:14

Hi ladies, I can't offer any practical advice on switching as I only got to about day 5 before I decided I was not prepared to put up with the pain of bf, but I just wanted to say please don't beat yourselves up. My DD is thriving on formula milk, my DH really likes being able to participate and I am sure it was the right decision for us.

I can suggest trying more than one type of formula if your DC doesn't take to the first one. Our DD is very happy on SMA but Aptamil didn't agree with her at all. Also, the bottles available differ greatly and your DC may prefer a specific type (the 'Mam' ones to me look more like nipples). Possibly bf babies may find the bottles very plasticky smelling to begin with? (no evidence for this, but I was just wondering about it the other day when I unpacked some new teats). Perhaps a few soaks in boiling water before sterilising would help reduce the plasticky smell.

I seem to keep recommending this gadget (I'm not on commission, honest) but it is brilliant as it takes about 5 mins out of the ff preparation process, which is helpful when DC is screaming for food!
www.amazon.co.uk/Twister-boiling-desired-temperature-Preparation/dp/B000NAZZSE/ref=sr_1_1?s=baby&ie=UTF8&qid=1364838351&sr=1-1

Phineyj Tue 30-Apr-13 21:59:36
iheartshoes Tue 30-Apr-13 23:07:22

Thanks tiktok and phiney , roamingwest I hope the switch goes well for you smile

dottypyjamas Wed 01-May-13 09:24:13

This thread is brilliant - I'm currently 36 weeks pg and for various reasons planning to ff and have been able to find hardly any info, so thanks guys - can see me returning again and again to re-read the tips! Also like the look of that cooling gadget - amazon 1click ordering is dangerous!

iheartshoes Wed 01-May-13 12:06:43

It's good isn't it dotty, I almost cried with relief when I found it and read all the info !!

Great thread please keep it going 19 Weeks with DC 2 and planning to ff or mf depending if boob comes easy to her grin

Jsa1980 Wed 01-May-13 18:40:41

Glad I found this. Gave up BF at ten days after having fed on the hour for 30 mins every hour then fed solidly for five hours. I just couldn't go on. Gave a bottle of ready made formula and baby (and me) slept for three hours, which is the longest he's slept since birth. I am much much happier vand so is baby, he also seems much more alert. I am sad that my body couldn't give him what he needed but that amount of feeding was not sustainable for any longer.

iheartshoes Wed 01-May-13 21:42:22

It's such a useful thread isn't it. My DD took a bottle at 1am last night which seemed to go down well and I gave her another one at 730 she is now sleeping peacefully in her crib and I've enjoyed my first relaxing bath in three weeks rather than having to just jump in the shower as quickly as poss. JSA my reasons for stopping are the same as yours she was just on me all the time feeding I didn't feel confident to leave the house as didn't want to feed in public and am very happy with my decision. Question though.... I would like to go into town with DD tomorrow or Friday ... I have the ready made cartons of milk to take with me but what should I take in terms of bottles? Do you just sterilise bottle as normal before you go out and pop in a bag ?

kllews26 Wed 01-May-13 22:45:08

Can I check that I've understood all this correctly? Any more advice is welcome.
I am expecting twins first week in June and probably going to FF with aptamil. The thought of making every single feed (for two babies) from scratch and waiting for the kettle to cool to 70 degrees seems overwhelming when you have babies screaming to be fed. Even more so in the middle of the night.
From the tips above, the issue seems to be that the powder needs to hit hot water (70 degrees) when mixed.
Does anyone else make up enough feeds for half a day or so, and then store in fridge. I have a bottle warmer.
Wondering if this approach is pragmatic or risky. Any thoughts?

Jsa1980 Thu 02-May-13 02:47:19

Iheartshoes - it's nice to know I'm not on my own!

As far as I'm aware that is what you do, but I've only been doing it two days so you might want to get reassurance from someone else!

OooohShiny Thu 02-May-13 21:14:26

kllews26 Yes, I did a couple of days trying the recommended way of making up each one fresh and the whole screaming baby whilst you waited on the boiled water cooling enough to put the formula in then cooling the bottle once made up.

I mentioned this to the midwife who came out on day 3 of being home and she said it was fine to boil a kettle, let it cool and then put it in a flask for nighttime and make up the formula from flask water. She also said it was ok to make up a bottle, flash cool it then store it in the fridge if i needed one to take out and about with me. I remember after her saying that I checked the NHS website and it also said it was ok to make one up in advance so long as it was used within 24 hours. That was when I made the decision to do just that but only make up 2 or 3 bottles at a time, flash cool then straight up to the back of the fridge.

I'm 8 months down the line now and have made a few up at a time since my DS was a couple of weeks old and have never had any problems. The only thing I have rigidly stuck to is chucking a bottle down the sink if it isn't used within 24 hours.

OooohShiny Thu 02-May-13 21:17:07

iheartshoes Yes, sterilise your bottles then they are fine to go out so long as you keep them 'done up' and lid on until you're ready to add in your ready made.

iheartshoes Fri 03-May-13 01:11:14

Thanks Shiny smile

iheartshoes Fri 03-May-13 21:55:54

Best way to warm a bottle of formula in the night... I have made up a bottle of formula just now for the 1am/2am feed and its currently in back of fridge... To heat it up in the night should I just dunk it in a jug of boiling water for a couple of minutes ? Or am I better off running it under a hot tap? If I dunk it in a jug of water do I need to be very careful about what part of the bottle the water touches ?

Chucking it in boiled water in a jug is fine iheartshoes smile

OooohShiny Sat 04-May-13 21:06:34

I always did the jug of boiling water, initially to warm and then gradually over a few weeks to just long enough to take the chill off

NappyHappy Sun 05-May-13 15:27:55

This Fred dropped off my list. I make up 4 at a time as that's how much the steriliser holds. Then heat in microwave when needed and shake afterwards to avoid hot spots. The bottles last under 24 hours with ds3 anyway smile

Bambi86 Mon 06-May-13 15:53:48

May I join in? Very glad I found this thread!

Didn't have much luck with BF, and have FF my DS1 since 2wo (he's nearly 6wo).

A question about offering cooled boiled water? How often should I be doing this in a day (especially warmer days)? Should I let it cool to body temp naturally or flash cool like when making up bottles? Once they've had a drink of the water, do you throw the rest away and re-sterilise? Or can you keep the bottle and water for a while?

Also, DS seems to have finally settled in to a 4 hour pattern between bottles- sometimes he grizzles in between and I offer him a new bottle (after offering a dummy). Often than not he will only want a few sips and then falls back to sleep. Would this be a good opportunity to be offering cooled boiled water?

Sorry for all the questions! Only just got my head around making up/storing formula!

roamingwest Tue 07-May-13 10:07:38

Just bumping this thread as there seems to be a few of us around trying to make the big switch / starting to mix feed smile

NappyHappy Tue 07-May-13 10:23:57

Aye, i'll keep bumping too. grin

Hi, you can offer the water between feeds, anytime really in the heat. I did keep the bottle with the water in out for a few hours though but there may be others who no if thats ok.

My friend is bf and really wants to stop but her boy has other ideas and its really getting her down.

Has anyone had problems buying powder with all the hoo ha in China?

NappyHappy Tue 07-May-13 10:26:08

Yes Bambi if he's grizzling offer it him then. All my boys have/had milk and water at this age room temp. shock

iheartshoes Tue 07-May-13 19:52:12

Re keeping the bottle of cooked boiled water my HV told me that water can be left out for up to 4 hours x

KatAndKit Tue 07-May-13 20:23:30

Have any of you ladies seen the new tommee tippee gadget? It isn't cheap but if I was FF (I only used cartons when supplementing and baby is on cows milk now) I would have thought it was well worth it. It prepares a bottle at the right temperature instantly for you.
www.tommeetippee.co.uk/perfect-prep/

Jsa1980 Tue 07-May-13 22:34:10

I've got one! Best investment yet!

Bumpincharge Wed 08-May-13 05:25:11

Hi Jsa1980, looking at the reviews for the Tomme Tippee gadget,someone had noted that the machine is in US oz, rather than UK. Is that the case with yours?

Newmum2013 Wed 08-May-13 05:56:48

This looks really good. Still bf at min but seriously considering one ready for change

Jsa1980 Wed 08-May-13 11:29:19

Yea it's in fluid oz but then my tt bottles have ml and fl oz and so does the sma formula tin so it's not caused me any issue (yet!)

Getting one of those for when dd arives in sept, have ff with ds this will be a God send for night feeds grin

NappyHappy Wed 08-May-13 20:12:17

How cool is that?

Thanks grin I thought there were water guidelines somewhere grin

iheartshoes Wed 08-May-13 21:03:44

How long do you ladies keep your made up bottles in the fridge for ? I think DD is waking up ... And I have a bottle in there that was made at 8 this morning , am I ok to give this to her ? Also once you have a bottle out to start a feed how long can you keep it out for ? DD tends to take half of her bottle then she will happily doze for about 20 mins before wanting the rest. Am i ok to give her the same bottle or should I be getting a new one out ? Also (sorry last stupid question) I've seen people mention flash cooling... What is that and do I need to do it ? At the mo I just put bottles straight in fridge from making them up

Jsa1980 Wed 08-May-13 21:06:50

Oh and I got mine from toys r us (free delivery) wondering if that made any difference?

scissy Wed 08-May-13 22:00:27

the bottle should be ok, the nhs leaflet says they need to be used within 24 hours. When feeding dd from a bottle from the fridge I tend to use it within an hour, or if it's over 12 hours I try to use it quicker.

Re flash cooling, I do this by placing the bottles in a container of really cold water (pref with ice cubes) - I find a lunchbox is ideal. The bottles cool within 5 mins and can then be put inn the fridge. If you put them in the fridge warm it can increase the internal temp of the fridge.

NappyHappy Thu 09-May-13 00:07:54

Hi Iheart, what you're doing sounds just fine.

That is a fab idea Scissy re the lunchbox, ill try that next time I need too.

TheDetective Thu 09-May-13 00:31:57

I just shove them in a big pan, with cold water and ice packs. Then in to fridge after 20-30 minutes smile

I'm not convinced about that TT thing. I don't know why. Although in essence it seems like a great idea. I just can't help wondering if only adding a small amount of boiling water to the powder, then topping up with cold is okay. It might be, I don't know. I just worry!

Hi can I join? My DD was EBF to 6 months, had to stop due to teeth, she's a real biter. She just turned one year old this week. Is healthy, big & strong (just started walking). Please can someone tell me, do I still need to sterilise her bottles? We've just discovered the TT cup (the one with the soft straw) doesn't like being microwave sterilised (I think the pack said it can go in microwave but it's warped over the last couple of days). She likes this, drinks water nicely from it & it's leakproof. She's a shocker for playing with her sippy cups & soaking the place. Thanks in advance.

NappyHappy Thu 09-May-13 09:27:01

Hi 50! no you don't need to keep sterilizing at this age. Personally once they start shoving everything in their mouth and crawling that's when I've stopped, about 8m upwards. But I do use anti bac washing up liquid wink

iheartshoes Thu 09-May-13 09:47:10

Thanks scissy and detective this thread is brill !!

iheartshoes Fri 10-May-13 08:08:04

Another question ... I'm meeting a friend for coffee this morning . I was going to pop a couple if ready made bottles in a cool bag with an ice box to keep them fresh but then will they be too cold to give to DD? I'm worried about using a microwave to heat them up in the cafe . What do you all tend to do when out? Ideally is pick up some ready made cartons but don't think ill have time

OooohShiny Fri 10-May-13 13:14:04

You've probably gone out now... but I used to ask wherever I was if I could have a mug/jug with some hot water in it (would ask as soon as I went in), most places are very obliging and if they didn't want to give me a jug I would take the bottle out half an hour before DS was due to feed and either warm it between my legs or stick it down my cleavage to take the chill off it...please don't laugh blush

NappyHappy Fri 10-May-13 20:58:55

Oooh, I used to do that too. Thank chuff its not just me!!!! Ive been luck that the boys drink it room temp.

OooohShiny Fri 10-May-13 21:16:39

hahaha Nappy

I started early on reducing the time I warmed my bottles for so that DS got used to having them quite cool

NappyHappy Sat 11-May-13 22:11:45

I am the crazy woman you see out wink

Those cartons are bloody brilliant!

iheartshoes Sat 11-May-13 23:24:14

Thanks shiny that is a truly brilliant tip

ThedementedPenguin Sun 12-May-13 22:38:29

Hello, I have a 8 month old ds who has been exclusively ff. I have a question, which my dp asked me and I couldn't give him an answer.

So we clean bottles, put in roughly 2-3oz of boiled water in put in fridge, when we need a bottle boil kettle, top up bottle, add formula, cool down and serve.

So my Dp asked me could we just put cold water from taps into bottle, put in fridge, top up with boiled water, etc. I said no! But can anyone tell me why we shouldn't do it?

I googled but it just gave my reasons for a newborn and I wasn't sure as I don't have a newborn any more.

Trishstar Mon 13-May-13 04:21:08

Iheartshoes

When out I use the tommee tippee travel bottle warmer, only because some places will give boiling water and some won't!

The water stays hot for ages!!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B002L3TEN8/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1368415230&sr=8-1&pi=SL75

And hello everyone! Xxx

batteryhen Mon 13-May-13 09:30:35

Hello smile my DS is 9 months and FF fed. When we go out I take a bottle of cooled boiled water, but only about 4oz, so when I need to feed DS I top it up to 7oz from a flask of boiling water that I also take. I have a really slim line flask that fits into my changing bag easily.
I used to ask for a cup or jug of hot water to warm up the bottle but at least with the flask I can feed him wherever I am and don't have to go into a cafe smile (even though that would give me an excuse to eat cake)

BabyHMummy Mon 13-May-13 11:17:56

Hope its ok if I join in...I am 26+1 pg and fully intending to ff due to medical probs. Thought I would say hi and ask for any tips xxx

NappyHappy Mon 13-May-13 16:04:55

Hey demented, it needs to be from the kettle at a temp of 70 deg so it kills any bugs that may be present in the formula powder as it is not sterile and over the last several decades have been I think about 25 ish cases of Gastroenteritis caused by the formula being made incorrectly.

I stopped sterilising Hus bottles 2 days ago but still use boiled water to make them up.

Good afternoon all!!

ThedementedPenguin Mon 13-May-13 17:21:52

I know that Nappy I meant what's the difference between me using cooled boiled water topped up with boiling water or using tap water topped with with boiling water?

I know the reason why it has to be over. 70 degrees. Just not why we couldn't use tap water topped up with boiling water for a bottle

NappyHappy Mon 13-May-13 18:10:20

Sorry, I can't see properly today through lack of sleep! confused

I do that now ds3 is older. I think its to make sure that all germs are killed when they're younger. When the boys have started weaning and I've needed a bottle quick I've done it that way.#

LexiLoganberryBump Mon 13-May-13 22:15:25

I haven't read through the whole thread so am sorry if this has already been asked and answered.

What do you do about making up night feeds?

When I had my DD 8 years ago it was common practice to make all of the bottles up in one go, I know this isn't the current guidelines. It doesn't seem practical to go down stairs at 2am boil the kettle wait 30 minutes for it to cool before returning to what I imagine would be a very upset baby.

BabyHMummy Mon 13-May-13 22:48:44

lexi dunno what others do but having spoken to several el friends ob the matter they make them up in advance and just warm thru when needed. I believe as long ad you don't put them in the door of the fridge this is ok. It's certainly what I intend to do

NappyHappy Mon 13-May-13 22:50:49

Hi, I make them up in one go, leave in the fridge and microwave when needed (shaken before giving to baby wink )

LexiLoganberryBump Tue 14-May-13 11:25:24

Thank you BabyH and Nappy, that's good to hear, just as I'd of done with DD.

Zara1984 Thu 16-May-13 14:51:10

Just popping in with a tip re travel. We're currently in Munich on holiday. Which has turned into a nightmare because DS has developed acute gastroenteritis, and we've been in hospital. No idea what caused it but I suspected local tap water.

Was boiling tap water for his bottles, and sterilising bottles with Milton tabs. Doctors at hospital assured me that Munich water supply is very safe, and I didn't even need to boil it. However DS kept vomiting up his bottles. I switched to using Evian (warmed slightly) straight from the bottle and he has kept all the bottles down, and is MUCH more cheerful.

Long story short: when in doubt, use Evian or Volvic to make up formula while travelling. Or use pre mades cartons.

NappyHappy Thu 16-May-13 17:56:26

Wow Zara, I hope all is ok now? Thanks for the info. shock That must have been rough.

grin Lexi. My microwave started smoking out of the side yesterday so Ive chucked it out! Jug of hot water to warm ds3s bottles up! I thought I recognised you from another fred.

Does anyone have problems with formula not dissolving properly causing the teats to clog? Its Cow and Gate follow on and the first stage it happens to blush

LexiLoganberryBump Fri 17-May-13 10:17:58

nappy oh dear about your microwave, I always used to use the jug method. I recognized you too smile

wigglesrock Fri 17-May-13 14:51:04

zara glad DS is on the mend. I've used Evian in the past on holiday but also when we've been away, bottled water which is suitable for babies and making up formula has a little baby picture on the side (a bit like the ones used for baby changing facilities)

NappyHappy Fri 17-May-13 16:09:59

I never knew that Wiggles about the pic, another excellent piece of info smile

I wonder how many people know about that?

iheartshoes Thu 23-May-13 23:11:39

Question re the cartons, if I poor a whole carton into a bottle and DD took half am I allowed to put the bottle back in the fridge and then re heat it later for a night feed ? It says the ready made will keep in its carton in fridge for 24 hours so does the same apply if its been poured in a bottle?

Bumpincharge Fri 24-May-13 06:09:46

Iheartshoes,

Once formula has been offered to your LO it only has a 1 hour life, so you'll have to bin it if it hasn't been taken.

iheartshoes Fri 24-May-13 16:43:09

Thanks , binned it anyway as wasn't sure

Miggs28 Sat 01-Jun-13 18:55:06

Hi everyone, my DS is now 10 days old and we have moved on to FF. We are beginning to think about taking our first few trips out in the next couple of days to make the most of DH's paternity leave.

I have a couple of questions that I was hoping some of you may know the answer to.

- We are currently using ready-mix formula, if we go out should i take empty sterilised bottles with us and cartons? If we take empty bottles does anyone know how long these would stay sterile for??

- We have ordered the tommee tippee perfect prep machine for when we switch to powdered formula - bit worried about this but i'm sure i'll get my head round it eventually!! Has anyone got one of these? Do you think it works well?

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