Hating it....again...

(55 Posts)
lazzaroo Tue 08-Jan-13 20:39:18

am BF my DD2 & really not enjoying it. She is only 10 days old but I am struggling. She seems to be cluster feeding morning & evenings. She'll go for 3 hours in between but with a 3 year old to look after too I hate it. she feeds in the evening and then can be crying again soon after & wont settle unless I offer boob. She then often falls asleep before taking full feed so I guess she's sucking for comfort. I'm considering dummy. I know she's due a growth spurt now & this may explain what's going on but I can't see an end to it at the moment.

I didn't enjoy BF my first either and remember all the same anxieties...is she getting enough, is she crying through hunger, if she has wind & I feed as first resort will I just make it worse, is she being sick because I'm overfeeding (she was sick a lot!). I am having all the same doubts again & the anxiety when she's unsettled makes me feel sick.

I wanted to give up first time round but by the time we tried bottle she refused to take it. I ended up bf her for 12 months. I am dreading being tied down again & want to give up but admitting that is making me feel like a failure & incredibly guilty.

She is now finally asleep after feeding off and on since 4pm. I have tried to explain worries to midwife but she just says that her weight is great ( only lst 3% birth weight) so she must be feeding ok.

amazingmumof6 Tue 08-Jan-13 21:01:37

give her 1 bottle of formula to replace the 1 feed that you most struggle with (to me it's the dinner/bath/bed time) and see if that makes a difference.

you can hopefully get 3 year old to sit with you, she can help you hold the bottle for baby and you can have a nice chat or tell her a story (I make some up if can't turn the book pages)

DS1 used to sit next to me with a piece of paper in a shoe box lid and draw. I used to call it "cozy time"

I think you'll feel more in charge, so although you won't be able to say you are fully breast feeding, but you'll be much happier, I guarantee it!!

It is hard to breast feed and look after/menage other children, housework, home work, husband, family and friends, appointments etc.
I know very well how you feel, I'm still partially bf my 9 months old DD who has 5 brother (4 in school, youngest home with me)

so don't worry, she is fine, be proud of yourself, you are doing a great job!

if you really want to give up, that's your decision and no need to feel guilty!
but, if I were you I'd wait for a few weeks to make that decision (6 week check up is a good date), you will feel more settled in a month or so and would have figured out a rough routine.

all the best and congrats on lovely baby girl!

CelticPromise Tue 08-Jan-13 21:15:36

Hi, sorry you are having a tough time. Are there any BF groups you could go to, just to share the problems and find out what strategies other mums are using?

Where do you want to get to? If you want to continue try setting a short term goal and taking it one feed at a time.

All babies are different, and you might find this one is more flexible about feeding and happy to take a bottle when you come to give one.

Best of luck, I hope you can make a choice you are happy with.

CelticPromise Tue 08-Jan-13 21:18:07

I second amazingmum's suggestion of six week check as a good time to aim for. Standard advice says it's fine to introduce bottles/dummies after six weeks I believe.

amazingmumof6 Tue 08-Jan-13 21:35:01

thanks celtic
you are right, post 6 weeks is the usual advice, but bottles can be introduced pretty much straight away - if you have to/want to do that.
it's not the teat of the bottle, but the difference in flow that confuses babies or causes them to splutter etc.

DS4 was jaundiced and too sleepy to bf, so I had to give him formula from a bottle in the hospital. he was 5 days old and quite poorly so I had no choice.
then I had 2 bouts of mastitis in the following few weeks so I pretty much stuck to giving him a bottle/day.

my oldest was only 5.5 at the time, the others 3.5 and 2 - so school & playgroup runs plus recovering from a C-section meant I ended up stopping bf when he was 3 months old.
no regrets, I had to switch to bottles fully or I wouldn't have survived.

HannahBerry Tue 08-Jan-13 22:05:14

Sorry to be harsh, but breast feeding is boring and relentless but so is nappy changing, but you couldn't stop that! Maybe if you didn't have the choice of formula feeding then you would persevere with bf? You think you have a real choice, but perhaps that's just the success of advertising. Also, wouldn't you feel more guilty having breastfed your first daughter so successfully? OK lecture over.

10- 14 days is a massive growth spurt. You are doing so right by your daughter and giving her the best start in life. You may have had sick & anxiety last time but you may get diarrhoea or constipation this time round. Best of luck X

shouldIbecrossaboutthis Tue 08-Jan-13 23:28:54

I was like this with my DS, I really worried he wasn't getting enough or if I was causing him to be unsettled by giving him too much, I'm a control freak and really struggle with not being able to see the food going in, even now @ 13 weeks.

What worked for me was to give him a bottle of expressed milk at his fussiest time 6pm ish, so then I knew it wasn't hunger because I could see how much he'd had. Then I gave him a dummy and held and rocked and sung to him or bathed him which he loved Most of the time he fell asleep for 2-3 hrs.

None of this is advised I'm just saying what worked for me. He had the dummy on day 4 and the bottle on day 14. He has always been a brilliant feeder on the breast so that probably helped, if you've had any problems with breastfeeding it might be best to wait until he is 6 weeks if you don't want to jepradise breastfeeding. If you do introduce a bottle, if you wanted to when you feel more on top of things you could also ditch it and go back to breastfeeding. The gut flora pattern would go back to the same as an EBF baby within 6-8 weeks they reckon.

Either waybdo not feel guilty about the choices you make, it is only food at the end of the day. Yes breast is best but formula isn't terrible and your baby doesn't really mind eitherway smile

saturdaymorningyawn Tue 08-Jan-13 23:38:37

I totally empathise as someone who really struggled with BF. Comments such as Hannah's unfortunately just perpetuate the myth that you are somehow doing less for your child by bottle feeding rather than BF. The choice is yours and yours alone you should do what feels right for you and your family and not be made to feel guilty for the choice you make.

amazingmumof6 Wed 09-Jan-13 00:33:09

Hannah it's a bit dumb to say that " Maybe if you didn't have the choice of formula feeding then you would persevere with bf?"

my grandma's sister had twins during WWII and one of the little girls died of malnourishment, because the stronger twin sucked out all the milk and little one literally starved to death!
I'm sure that formula milk would have saved her life, but you are probably right, thank goodness that it was not available, losing a baby surely taught my great aunt a lesson about persevering! (!)

Piemother Wed 09-Jan-13 00:47:34

Making this a bf/ff debate is really unhelpful.
Meanwhile I have 2sc with the same age gap. The 10 growth spurt with dc2 felt like a never ending marathon and was a real shock even after 12 months of bf dc1. I had all those thoughts of 'I've got to do it all again hmm). However it passed and once dc2 got past 6 weeks it got much easier and my doubts have eased. Dc2 is 9 weeks now and feeding at a much more reasonable rate and I'm not feeling like a dairy cow!
I am happy to admit that my temptation to chuck it in and ff was much worse this time around. I won't be but the thoughts have been there.

Introducing a bottle is illogical advice too IMO

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 00:47:42

I found an expressed bottle for the evening cluster helped
plus dummies

if you mix feed and dummies one of two things'll happen:
It'll make BFing easier and you will enjoy your LO's first year
It'll make BFing tail off but you're not currently enjoying it anyway
win-win I think!

shouldIbecrossaboutthis Wed 09-Jan-13 07:18:33

Piemother, why is it illogical? It worked really well for us and I definitely would have stopped BF if it weren't for that bottle. I'm assuming it also worked well for ilovesalad too?

lazzaroo Wed 09-Jan-13 07:48:36

Thank you all for your replies & support. I would be happy to add bottle of expressed milk, she'd still be getting the goodness. I worry about leaving it too late to try this in case she then refuses it like my other.

I do feel bad about wanting to quit when I persevered with my first. But I didn't persevere through choice first time round, and as I hated I then too I don't feel I feed her 'so successfully'. Surely she's be happier with a mum who is not stressed out & anxious all the time.

My other DD is generally very good when I'm feeding. I struggle with early evening as it coincides with bath & bedtime. my DH travels away a lot for work so I have to figure out how to manage this on my own.

I don't expect this to be easy but I do want o enjoy the early days.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 09:30:00

"I'm assuming it also worked well for ilovesalad too?"

yup, it was either give up completely or add in coping mechanisms, and I added in EBM bottles and dummies and then BF for ages.

When you're actually managing to feed at all people make you feel shitty about doing anything that might MIGHT interfere with it, but actually they are being illogicial, the BF support people didn't care that I was hating every second of my time with my baby because of BFing, and for me mixing in bottles and dummies were the reasons why I kept breastfeeding

OP must be hard when your DH works away, can you afford a mothers help for a couple of hours at bed time when your OH is away? Humans weren't meant to raise their kids in isolation, we were supposed to live in groups (I don't mean just with a DH either, I mean a whole suppport group) and I think we think we "should" manage all by ourselves when that's not the natural way at all so don't feel you shouldn't ask for help if there's either willing family about to do an odd bath and bed for your older one, or a bit of funds for some as and when mother's help

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 09:31:31

Lazaroo, sorry you are feeling like this, having a newborn is hard enough.

What no one has mentioned on this thread and what no one may have mentioned in real life is that evening 'cluster feeding' like you mention is completely normal and although it may not seem like it at the time, a good thing as it's a good way to build your milk supply and often the 'pay off' for all that feeding is that baby will sleep a bit longer between feeds. Not always though sadly and that's normal too.

Also, if your anxious as to whether your baby is getting enough, has anyone been through keeping an eye on nappy output to reassure yourself? Another thing that may help if you're feeling anxious and/or fed up is to go to a breastfeeding group. If you haven't been, they really aren't as most people imagine, it's just a way to meet new Mum's who also happen to BF, but if you need to vent or some support, they can offer this and they'll understand.

My DD refused a bottle for quite a while, having taken them from a few weeks old, she just suddenly stopped and I'll admit that even though I didn't really want to leave her, knowing I couldn't felt awful, so I do understand how that feels. However, I did find ways to leave her and with some perseverance I got her to take bottles of expressed milk again too.

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 09:35:00

Also, some babies are fussy in the evenings anyway and there's no guarantee stopping breastfeeding or mixed feeding would change that. Would using a sling such as Moby help do you think? It would either just leave your hands free or some Mums can learn to feed in them too. My DH is away a lot/working late a lot too and it's difficult!

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 09:37:24

BF groups are useful if you have physical problems with BFing
If you are physically feeding fine but just hate it and want to find another way of doing it other than exclusive on demand BFing they can be the worst place to be!

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 10:14:08

ILoveSalad, if that is your experience of a BF group then I am sorry it was like that for you. I have been to quite a few BF groups both for me personally and as a peer supporter and they are places you can go for a coffee and chat with other Mums and get help from a HV, midwife, BF counsellor or peer supporter, depending on who runs the BF group, but I have found primarily they are not for women with physical problems BF at all, although this is a common misconception, that is what BF clinics are for though.

BF groups are also a place where you can get advice and help on expressing/giving bottles as well as getting a bottle refuser to take a bottle and even for help on iced feeding if that is what you want to do.

They are not simply for Mums who want to BF on demand, but for any Mum who BFs at all.

Piemother Wed 09-Jan-13 10:29:33

Midori - I'm a peer supporter too - my group was a nice place to come for a good moan and a laugh grin

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:33:02

Actually I went to several, I even tried the next town. there were mums who mixed fed who were supported, but they had to have a better "excuse" than "cause I hate it" wink and if you suggest that BF is preventing you from bonding with your newborn you're told you're wrong, BFing always helps bonding apparently!

If you want to tail off exclusive BFing due to hating it, how supportive of that would you really be as peer supporters?? would you really just listen and be a sympathetic ear???

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 10:45:56

I support lots of women to stop BF as a peer supporter, that's a part of what I do. Why they want to stop isn't really any of my business, although I do usually know.

You have obviously has a very poor experience of BF groups, what a pity because they certainly aren't all like that and none should be.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 10:50:36

yes but.. by definition aren't they a place for people who want to continue BFing or BF more?

so not necessarily where the OP will get the best support as she wants to BF LESS or even not at all!

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 10:58:41

They are place for anyone who wants help or support with BF and that includes how to mixed feed (BF less) or stop BF, yes.

They are certainly a place where the OP can get help and reassurance with the feelings of anxiety she mentions and also suggestions and advice as to where to go from here.

Just for information, at the BF group I went to for myself, at least half the Mums mixed fed.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 11:02:19

"Just for information, at the BF group I went to for myself, at least half the Mums mixed fed."

yes, same for the ones I went to, but if you are "sucessfully" exclusively BFing and want to cut down to mix due to just not liking it.. well that's different

no I've never heard of anyone I know getting support to stop BFing at BFing groups, even friends where were exclusively expressing.

havingastress Wed 09-Jan-13 11:08:53

I had my first baby 9 weeks ago.

Along with a lot of medical complications, I just couldn't cope with BF at all. I was miserable, crying, depressed, exhausted and totally worrying about whether my DD was getting enough milk.

My boobs were engorged, painful and I had mastitis.

After 19 days I broke down in front of the MW who immediately told me to stop. She said I shouldn't be made to feel guilty about not BF'ing. My baby would be absolutely FINE on formula. To deny my baby of my love, time and attention was FAR WORSE than giving her formula.

I cried for a week after stopping out of guilt.

My DD is happy, thriving and nourished. It was the best decision I could have made in my circumstances.

If I have another baby I will give BF'ing another go. Maybe next time it will work. Different baby. I do believe bf'ing is best so of course, we all want the best for our babies.

BUt you know what. I hate it that some people (including some posters on here) will try to make you feel like a bad mother for not breastfeeding.

No one knows your situation other than you. I still have days where I feel guilty and actually days where I miss bf'ing (strangely, given the pain I had! ).

At just under 3 weeks old my DD had no idea at all that I'd swopped my boob for a bottle. She was absolutely FINE. (FWIW avoid Tommy Tippee though if I were you! She did not do so well on those bottles and has been a different baby on Dr Browns! )

Honestly. From your post, I think you'd be mentally happier/better off if you stopped. Yes, of course breast is best. It is also better. BUT if you did a survey of intelligent, healthy and happy adults to see who was breast fed and who was formula thread I think you would find absolutely no pattern whatsoever!!! I was formula fed and I have 2 degrees!

So, personally, if I was you, in your situation as you describe, I would stop beating yourself up, get yourself to Asda and get some Aptamil and Dr Browns bottles and get your life back. grin

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 11:25:13

ILoveSalad, perhaps that is because, like you, the people you know have misconceptions about what a BF group is for and so wouldn't have gone to a BF group for help in stopping BF.

Are you honestly saying that at one of the BF groups you went to, a Mum/Mums were berated for wanting to stop BF because they didn't like it? If so, you should absolutely complain because this should not happen.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:25:05

"ILoveSalad, perhaps that is because, like you, the people you know have misconceptions about what a BF group is for and so wouldn't have gone to a BF group for help in stopping BF"

nnnoooo, like me, they did go hmm
the ones that went for advice about how to cut down EBM and mix feed while tailing off the EBM with an aim to stopping, were told to keep EBMing hmm since they were obviously managing (but not having any bonding time due to being stuck to a pump all day!!), and many left in tears and just stopped cold turkey as they couldn't get any advice about tailing off with an aim to stopping

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 12:27:07

I went to a few different ones for advice about how to make it more bearable, and was consistantly told to "keep doing what you're doing" hmm - err no! I'm NOT going to keep doing what I'm doing, I want to STOP if you can't advise on how to make it more bearable by mix feeding or something!

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 14:09:01

I'm sorry that you and your friends were unable to get good advice. However, you should have been able to get advice on those things at a BF support group and if you didn't, I'd urge you to make a complaint if you feel able to.

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 14:10:47

by definition how can BF group always be the best support for everyone though?

its not

that's fine, they have their place, but it's not the best place for everyone

CelticPromise Wed 09-Jan-13 14:24:50

Just wanted to say, I'm a peer supporter too and I do a group with a brilliant and very experienced BF counsellor and I have heard her several times give info about dummies and bottles to mums where appropriate. Yes it's our job to support bfing but it's also to give women the info to make their own choices and be happy with them. That does mean that you have to give the info about bottles and dummies interfering with bf- not to make mums feel guilty but so they are fully informed.

midori1999 Wed 09-Jan-13 15:33:04

ILoveSalad, once again, I am sorry about your poor experience of BF support groups and that you didn't find much support there. However, you said

BF groups are useful if you have physical problems with BFing
If you are physically feeding fine but just hate it and want to find another way of doing it other than exclusive on demand BFing they can be the worst place to be!"

And although that was obviously your own experience, it simply isn't true that they are there just to help with physical problems relating to breastfeeding or as your other posts describe not to help women who wish to stop breast feeding. Part of BF support is helping women to stop breast feeding safely in a way where they are not risking illness such as mastitis.

PostBellumBugsy Wed 09-Jan-13 15:43:12

lazzaroo, you have my sympathy. I hated BF too. I don't know why, but I really did. With my first, I expressed alot and he had my breast milk for 4 months. With my second I mixed fed and she also had breast milk for 4 months. I felt so jubilant when I stopped both times. I have a great relationship with both my DCs & they are incredibly healthy with not an allergy between them.
Do what works for you. Long-term there are far more important issues that will determine the outcome for your DCs than whether or not they were breastfed.
Big hugs & good luck whatever you decide to do.

HannahBerry Wed 09-Jan-13 20:09:35

In parts of the world, where formula is not available, strangely enough women breastfeed without any trouble whatsoever (see the Politics of Breastfeeding by G Palmer). Where the mother has died, for example, essentially a wet nurse would do the job. There are other ways of saving a child's life without giving them a bottle of formula. The human race had got this far long before Nestle was created!

What I am suggesting is that through very clever and unethical marketing (+) we as a society have become indoctrinated that there is a choice not to breastfeed. Thus, when given a choice of doing something that is really hard, boring and relentless or not doing something that is really hard, boring and relentless, it is not surprising that many women chose the latter. But my point is if that choice was taken away from you, you'd just get on with breastfeeding because you'd have to.

From own my experience, I hate breastfeeding at times and had debated the decision to give up so many times. But I then realised that these companies had created a need where one had never existed before, in order to make profit at the sake of children's health. (How many children have died of being fed breastmilk?).

I am not anti- formula. I am anti the commercialisation of formula. It has become a mass- market product, where it should be a medical product, used only in the rarest of circumstances. Unfortunately, the formula companies are in bed with the medical profession (for example see recent SMA Midwife of the Year award).

This is my opinion and I know it goes against the grain. Sixty years ago, if I had shouted about the dangers of tobacco, I probably would be flamed then too.

(+) An example of this was Nestle Nurses (sales women dressed as nurses in South African hospitals in the 60's to encourage formula feeding).

lazzaroo Wed 09-Jan-13 20:16:15

Evening! Just checking in & I'm o grateful for everyone taking the time to reply. Saw the midwife today. Baby doing well & is back above her birth weight but I did explain some of my concerns (probably not as honest as I should have been though!).

She noticed that little one has oral thrush. So now I feel bad about ot having seen it myself & that this could explain her comfort sucking & sickness. Anyway, this means that dummy/bottles at least on hold until it clears up.

I can also say thank god for baby bjorn! She happily went in it this morning & fell asleep really quickly while I got on with other things.

I also agree that I feel a huge amount of pressure to be on top of everything & able to cope on my own....I must get better at asking for help!

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 20:16:34

no actually not having formula available didn't make everyone able to BF, the lady who lived next door to my mum in the 70s was a wet nurse for people who couldn't afford formula, so not being able to buy formula didn't make people able and willing to BF, it just meant they had to resort to the very unsafe practice of using an un-tested wet nurse (who trust me you wouldn't want to share body fluids with, her BM wasn't the the only think she loosely shared around the town IYKWIM!)

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 20:19:26

sorry OP x posted with your update

"I also agree that I feel a huge amount of pressure to be on top of everything & able to cope on my own....I must get better at asking for help!"
it is so hard to ask for help but really, do! you'd advise a friend to take help so take it yourself wink

Make sure you BOTH get treated for thrush at the same time, it's a right bastard to get rid of and you can keep giving it back to each other if you aren't both treated

best of luck

HannahBerry Wed 09-Jan-13 20:58:44

Oh wow ILoveSalad, one can pass a sexually transmitted disease via breastmilk?!!

I didn't know that! I had better inform the whole of the medical profession that they are mistaken!!

(BTW, ILoveSalad, Wet nurses had been around, and doing a very noble job of not killing babies, for thousands of years before formula was invented, of which has and is still contributing to the deaths of babies in the poorest countries of the world IYKWIM?).

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 21:03:55

BM is in the same class as blood products body fluid wise in terms of testing and infection control!

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Wed 09-Jan-13 21:08:19

wouldya fancy an untested blood transfusion HollyBerry?

point is, that no, when formula wasn't available and affordable to all, people weren't all able to just "get on with it" and had to resort to things less preferable than formula which I'm sure they didn't take lightly

Feelingsobad Wed 09-Jan-13 23:04:18

OP I'm sorry about the thrush, hopefully you can get it sorted quickly so you can move forward however you want to. Hopefully the midwife was helpful in other ways too.

HannahBerry you're not really being very helpful to the OP and you're not very knowledgable either. Whilst I agree with you about formula being marketed in the developing and third world and choose to boycott Nestlé personally, HIV and hepatitis, sexually transmitted diseases , can be passed on via breastmilk. this is one of reasons milk donors in the UK need screening.

saturdaymorningyawn Wed 09-Jan-13 23:07:13

Hannahberry as someone who has worked in third wield countries I agree that historically companies producing formula were highly unethical in their marketing of products. However to simply say that there is no problem with BF in these countries is far too simplistic, of course there is. Many times babies die due to their mothers being severely malnourished themselves through illness/famine etc and not being able to produce enough milk. And I'm sure historically this happened frequently too.

saturdaymorningyawn Wed 09-Jan-13 23:09:26

Lazzaroo I'm glad that your baby is more settled today. Good luck with whatever it is you choose to dogrin

tiktok Wed 09-Jan-13 23:59:09

Oh dear...this thread is full of bad experiences, misinformation, second-hand scary stories and a whole ragbag of myth sad sad

OP - you need to find a sound source of information and support that will not tell you what you should do, but will listen and help you work out from options what is going to suit you, in all respects....physical and emotional. Find a source which will not guarentee you will be happier hmm if you follow what they themselves did; find a source that understands how breastfeeding works and can share that with you, and how mixed feeding works, too.

Then decide for yourself smile

A good breastfeeding group is often a good source of info, as are the breastfeeding helplines. You might want to start with the helplines, with such a young baby (as it's hard to be out and about so soon). Not all breastfeeding groups are as good as each other, and some really offer friendship and support rather than detailed information - but the helplines are staffed by breastfeeding counsellors who do (usually) know what they're talking about smile

tiktok Thu 10-Jan-13 00:00:00

Just to add: thrush is very, very unusual in a baby as young as this. A second opinion is needed, IMO.

tiktok Thu 10-Jan-13 09:46:10

Out of all the myth and scare-stuff posted here, I'll pick on one only to correct, because it really is misleading - the idea that babies getting donor milk could get an STD, or hepatitis.

HIV is 'vertically transmitted' in breastmilk, but no other diseases have been shown to be transmitted in this way.

BettyandDon Thu 10-Jan-13 10:09:40

Op, I had very similar issues except much longer cluster feeds with no evening help and a toddler. I moved to formula and am 10x happier plus my baby is a lot more content. Just my experience.

I think it is wrong to leave a toddler too much to allow for the time to BF. I am only saying this as my 2.5 yr old developed a serious medical condition that I failed to notice - I was letting her go the toilet by herself and didn't spot the symptoms. This was because I was stuck on the sofa BF for literally up to 5/6 hours. Talk about the guilt I feel now!

I don't think its realistic to suggest that toddlers can read quietly or play in front of you for this length of time. They need love and attention not to mention proper meals, baths, teeth done and a relaxing bedtime. If you are on your own with no help I don't see how it can be done if you have a cluster feeder in the evenings. I have seen suggestions that you can use a sling but IME only very experienced BFeeders can manage this. I had only just got the latch right a few weeks before my baby started marathon feeding.

IMO you have to do what's right for your family.

narmada Thu 10-Jan-13 10:38:37

But how do people manage to BF second or subsequent children then!?? Obviously this is possible and all these 'abandoned' toddlers don't all grow up emotionally and physically scarred! They can manage without nightly baths for a while and won't keel over if they have the odd Little Dish kid's meal for tea now and again.

I found bottlefeeding with two an absolute pain in the bum when I had two. Littlest was still very very needy (contact, cuddles, not necessarily asleep, needing bouncing) and there was no way of comforting him often whereas a breast might have quietened him. Then there's the endless washing of bottles..... and....well, sometimes you have to put the new baby down and let them have a howl while you get on with other things for the other children!

I am sorry for your experience bettyanddon and hope your 2.5 year old is better now and your advice to do what's right for the family is good, but to imply that BF is incompatible with having older children is possibly not helpful!

tiktok Thu 10-Jan-13 10:45:13

Yes, it is possible to bf subsequent babies - one advantage of bf is that you usually have a spare hand/arm, and you'll often need it to play, read to, cuddle the toddler smile

Betty, your experience, as you say, is very individual to you, and I hope things are better now.

It is very unusual for bf mothers to be 'literally' on the sofa for 5-6 hours. Yes, bf babies may well need your contact and may well be on and off the breast for that amount of time when they are in a 'cluster feeding' stage (which formula fed babies have as well!), but you really, really, don't have to be on the sofa for this amount of time. Life can go on around the cluster feeds smile

lazzaroo Thu 10-Jan-13 12:38:05

Back again! And am grateful of replies but my head is still spinning with the prospect of making a decision. I need to try something though. This morning has not been successful. Little one has been usettled & screaming. I've been crying. I feel like I am repeating all the same mistakes I did with my first.

She wouldn't settle. Does everything to suggest she wants feeding and in an attempt to be more relaxed this time I offer boob, on the basis that 'you can't overfeeding a bf baby' but then end up stuck in unhelpful cycle....she falls asleep so doesn't take proper feed, she gets more wind or is sick. So next time she's unsettled is it hunger or over tiredness. Tried everything to get her to sleep this morning, been out with pram, worn her in bjorn, constant rocking.ended up going put for needless drive. She's asleep but doubtful for long. All the while I am thinking how I can't spend all my time switching between boob & getting her to sleep when my other daughter home ( she's in nursery today.

I appreciate switching to bottle won't solve all issues. But I am not at all confident in my 'mothers intuition', Supposed to recognise her cries...well, I don't. Or when I think I do, I get it wrong. But I feel like knowing how much she's taking and when she might need it will help.

Right now my confidence is all time low & I'm doing a terrible job. Surely bottle & happy mumis healthier alternative?

ILoveSaladReallyIDo Thu 10-Jan-13 12:51:38

"HIV is 'vertically transmitted' in breastmilk, but no other diseases have been shown to be transmitted in this way"

oh is that all? hmm well that's alright then!?

some bf babies do take 5-6 hrs a day of sofa time, particularly if they will only feed well when using biological nurturing, cluster feeds alone could regularly take 3 hours for us

tiktok Thu 10-Jan-13 13:00:30

Ilove - ?????

You seem to be sneering at me smile

I was correcting misinfo. Here's an explanation of what I said:

A lot of women have or have had hepatitis, a lot of women have or have had an STD. Add them up (UK stats only, natch) and it's many, many more times than women who have HIV. If these many women think their breastmilk is likely to be harmful, because of misinfo on mumsnet, this would be a bad thing, yes?

Yes, some women will be based on the sofa for many hours with a breastfed baby, during cluster feeds....but this does not mean it is impossible to feed or hold the baby somewhere else during that time smile You know, like paralysed or something. It can be comfy on the sofa, for sure, and it's nice for mothers and babies to have that time snuggled up....but it is not essential, and with other children you have to get up from the sofa and hold the baby/feed the baby in another spot sometimes smile

Hope I have clarified for you!

myrubberduck Thu 10-Jan-13 14:02:51

Oh dear

Lots of helpful advice and supportive comments and then this;
"Sorry to be harsh, but breast feeding is boring and relentless but so is nappy changing, but you couldn't stop that! "

Hanna Are you seriously comparing not bf with not changing soiled nappies?? really??

I suspect that the world would be a better place if you took your (no doubt well thumbed) copy of "the politics of breastfeeding" and shoved it up you arse.


HannahBerry Fri 11-Jan-13 16:30:59

For those in the future happening upon this thread and looking to make an informed decision, then I hope that you will find the following article from The Ecologist useful:

breastmilk vs formula

Thank you for your feedback myrubberduck. Luckily, mumsnet is UK based and follows the spirit of our long fought right to have free speech. I have my opinions, you have yours :-)

brettgirl2 Sun 13-Jan-13 14:35:18

Everyone has their own opinions Hannah. Most people in civilised society present them in a more sensitive way though and can understand others may not agree hmm

OP it's your family do what is best.

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