gripe water in the feeds?

(32 Posts)
Numusho Sat 17-Nov-12 22:54:41

My dd just turned4 wks n is so colicky. On EBM n formula topup. Giving her colief n infacol. I want tostop infacol n give her gripe wAter. Any advise desperately welcome. Can I give gripe water without having to give a feed??

tiktok Sat 17-Nov-12 23:02:12

numusho can you say a bit more about what your baby is doing? What do you mean by colicky? Gripe water is a traditional remedy which is likely to be harmless but there is no good evidence it helps - infacol is also without any evidence but is also harmless. There is not a lot of evidence for colief and no reason why it would work when there are no real symptoms of lactose intolerance. There may be other more effective things you can do to help your dd become less distressed - what is happening and what have you tried so far?

IceNoSlice Sat 17-Nov-12 23:03:29

Sympathy, my LO is now 14 weeks and was colicky. It does end, I promise! I'm not an expert (I'm sure some of those will be along in a bit) but for what it's worth:
- I gave gripe water before a feed because I'm BF, but I heard that's a good idea even with bottle feeding as otherwise the medicine affects the taste of the milk
- use a syringe as the spoon was a disaster and my LO ended up with sticky gripe water all over his face.
- Boots apple flavour gripe water is the one to get;
- You can buy syringes at the chemist apparently but I do my shopping online and couldn't find them so asked the nurse and she gave me 5 for free :-)

I only ever gave one at once - infacol or gripe water or colief. Are you sure it's ok to give colief at the same time? (maybe it is, but I'd want to check that).

Good luck OP!

IceNoSlice Sat 17-Nov-12 23:06:49

Oh and I agree with tiktok re thinking about causes - I was pretty sure mine was wind related as he kept staring and lifting up his legs. I also did a lot of gentle baby massage (tiger in the tree was a fave).

Numusho Sat 17-Nov-12 23:19:15

Sorry she was screaming her head off with her grandma walking her around trying to calm her.
Day one she was screaming starting from about 7pm to 2pm refusing bottles breastd dummies ....two weeks I'm thinking everything but colic. She had few formula feeds but mostly breast. We wereat our wits end thinking it's too early for colic even though my step daughter had exactly same symptoms. Tried infacol....so now only screaming till 12 max 1am. MW suggested colief .... now she screams from 9 to 12 on good days n7 to 2 am on bad days (thank fully not often) I know there is very minimum literature out there on the suggested remedies but I'm willing to try anything. I don't think infacol helps much. I feed her EBM n formula topup. I have noticed on the few occasions I gave her my breast (no colief) within an hour she cries n cries n scrunches her face, pulls her legs up. She is so gassy n has massive burps which smell of the orange flavour of infacol. I have rubbed her tummy, played music, took her for drives, walked in the hallway...put her in a bouncer with a vibration option...
I'm desperate...had bad spd during pregnancy n still have residual pain n spent the entire evening crying coz the pain is affecting my milk n I can't take anything stronger than paracetamol and can't walk for long to calm her.

tiktok Sun 18-Nov-12 00:01:00

sad numisho sad - sorry about your pain. There are many pain relievers that are safe with bf - ask your chemist and/or look at the info at breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk which has factsheets on medication and bf.

It does sound as though your dd is in distress - what happens if you breastfeed her as a response to her crying, even bf often? Crying and scrunching up face and pulling up legs is not a sign of colic/wind - despite the common idea that it is - this is just how young babies tend to cry. Maybe she has wind/colic - who knows? Colic is very poorly understood.

Large burps is not a sign of colic - they will certainly smell of infacol if you have given her infacol, that's understandable smile

Numusho Sun 18-Nov-12 00:24:11

Initially I didn't have any flow....it became a good flow since wk3. But yeah I feed on demand anyways. Oh she was a bit lazy at sucking ....got all the foremilk n get off the boob n do the same with the other boob ...got engorged, sore...she wouldn't even suck...just lie there with her chin on my boob like she was waiting for something. Then in about 20 min start crying her tummy all gassy n like a drum.
I hate having to give her meds but during the day she is so much better. It's like we have a evil twin who swaps places in the evening. I feel her tummy soften after she passed wind. But the worst is when her tummy does this tightening wave n I feel her heave n stretch n cry like nobody's business...then suddenly stop n then after 10 min again n again n again...till she is exhausted....
I can't take the burfen n the related family of painkillers coz my asthma reacts to them....codiene is no no if I want to BF ...paracetamol is it.....n it's like having MnM ...every 4hrs...
Im not liking the infacol....n wanted to try gripe water initially....but the colief worked so well...so I know it made a difference. Infacol...not so sure....
Does gripe water have to be accompanied by feeds? Or can I give her when she is fussing n whinging ?

BillyBollyBandy Sun 18-Nov-12 00:28:50

I used gripe water with both of mine from 4 weeks, put into the bottle. I find it excellent for bringing up wind, I think it has to be with a feed though but you can check that out.

Also dont understimate how much food they need at this age. Until 4 weeks ago your dc was fed constantly and intravenously, it's a big change! smile

tiktok Sun 18-Nov-12 08:04:09

Gripe water can be given at any time - as far as I understand it. Check with your HV? I have never heard that it must be given with feeds.

I still don't quite understand what's going on. What happens if you feed your baby again when she cries 20 mins or 10 mins after feeding?

Read the Bfn factsheet on analgesia - you have several options and codeine is not an automatic no no, though there are cautions.

Numusho Sun 18-Nov-12 11:12:49

Sorry I was quite delirious yesterday. When I .BF her, she gets gassy n cries n n the poo that usually comes along is greeny yellow with her tummy is bloated like a drum.

tiktok Sun 18-Nov-12 12:01:30

Sorry, I am still not getting it smile

What happens if you feed her when she starts to cry after 20 mins after you have stopped feeding her?

Does that make her cry more?

The poo and the hardening tummy may not be sigificant at all. Poo can be any colour smile and babies' tums naturally harden and soften all the time.

IceNoSlice Sun 18-Nov-12 18:35:38

tiktok re: giving gripe water with feeds. I'm l

IceNoSlice Sun 18-Nov-12 18:38:39

Grr fat fingers.

Was typing: I'm looking at the packaging for Boots gripe water now, and it says '5ml before or after each feed if you need to, not more than 6 times in 24 hours'.

But agree to ask HV as this could be Boots' interpretation.

I thought mine had colic (very similar to what you're describing) but in retrospect I just wasn't responding enough to demands for cluster feeding - I assumed he couldn't possibly be hungry again because I'd only just fed him, so I didn't, and assumed it must be colic and loaded him up on remedies. Poor thing sad I would suggest offering her the boob a lot, lot more. Here is a good article on cluster feeding that I wish I'd seen sooner!

tiktok Sun 18-Nov-12 19:39:44

Yes elphaba, you read my mind smile

That's what I was trying to ascertain from the OP - baby could just want more bf.

Gripe water is just lightly flavoured water. I can't see it would actively harm being given between feeds rather than immediately before or after.

Numusho Sun 18-Nov-12 20:26:14

I thought it was cluster feeding. I give her boobs, bottle,everything that can hold milk whether EBM or formula. She doesn't have any issues with teats or nipple, guzzles everything down. She is pretty good at stopping when she is full. My nipples r in shreds from her sucking n expressing.
From 8pm she starts till 12pm crying n crying n nothing settles her. No feeds, no walks, drives singing...So I'm feeding her till she is milk drunk literally. Of course in her crying, she pukes, n I feed her again. Her crying is worse after breast feeding. I thought if I didn't have enough, ill give her bottle. I even try feeding her in her sleep.
During the day she has periods of crying when nothing consoles her till she falls asleep exhausted like today n then slept straight for three hours without a peep.
Well the gripe water bottles advise during or after feeds.
I BF exclusively for two weeks n then gave her a formula top up coz she is still hungry after two boobs n I pass her from one boob to another hoping she will get what she needs. I broke down n gave her a top up n she slept for two whole hours !! This was when she was 3wks old.
This didn't improve the crazy crying though.

Unfortunately, it just sounds like that newborn phase that will eventually end, then.

WRT formula top-ups...unless you want to continue mixed feeding for some reason, there's no law which states you can only offer two boobs. If she still seems hungry after the second boob, put her back on the first boob and just keep doing this until she is done, instead of topping up with a bottle - it's called switch feeding. You will have the milk there - breasts are never empty, the flow just might be a bit slower, but this will improve the more you put her on. The comfort from the boob might also help with her fussiness maybe? The only reason she would have seemed more satisfied after the formula is because it would have given her a feeling of fullness, not because her nutritional needs were being more adequately met, or because there was something wrong with, or insufficient in, your milk.

Also, if you're in pain with feeding, maybe go to a BF cafe or ask your HV to refer you to a BFing counsellor to get checked out (latch, tongue tie etc)?

Numusho Sun 18-Nov-12 21:32:40

Oh I did do the boob switching. N I still do it. After two pass overs, if she still crying...I top her up. I was determined to BF her. Still am determined to give her as much as I can with the breast. I express, hand n machine to make sure I give her as much as possible.
I had the BFing counsellor visit. The uncomfortable feeling of the suckling I can deal with. It's my residual pain from SPD that's making me crazy. Nobody will give me anything more than paracetamol.

I take OTC co-codamol every now and again. Maybe take one co-codamol with one paracetamol to start then see how it goes?

tiktok Sun 18-Nov-12 23:07:23

It sounds very hard, numisho - another session with a bf counsellor where you can explain everything might help?

I have already suggested looking at pain relief again - the factsheet at the link I posted should help you, if you share it with your doctor. You don't deserve to be in pain sad

whenwill Mon 19-Nov-12 10:08:25

It does sound like a gassy problem but this can be caused by other things.

The nipple pain and 'foremilk' feeds and not getting enough and the big, multiple burps that take ages to bring up and the lazy suck and crying at night (grunting and uncomfortable when laying on her back) and was better in the day (when more upright) sound like my dd. She had reflux caused posterior tongue tie that was missed by many people until I went privately to lactation consultant who specialises in tongue tie snip. It is the one thing I regret not sorting out sooner.

tiktok Mon 19-Nov-12 10:16:28

Absolutely - tongue tie is well worth checking for, as is checking for whether everything is normal, and whether OP has good support to cope with this phase.

Numusho Mon 19-Nov-12 13:10:47

Just been to the GP. Hallelujah I got better painkillers. Dr suggested gaviscon as last resort in two weeks time coz dd still too young. Just colief n gripe water for now. N positioning. N patience. I suggested tongue tie....but dr didn't see anything suspicious.

I found dd is more comfortable on her side or slightly tilted one side rather than flat on her back. I have her bed slightly raised at the head to help with the regurgitation. But everybody tells me babies with have spit ups in sleep. I don't think spit ups would form a small puddle under her head n in her ear would it now???

The worst thing in this whole situation is I'm a doctor trained in paediatrics quite some time back. . N all I hear is well ur a doctor....u should know....n I have to keep saying well I didn't have my own baby before. I got sick babies n that's all i saw at work. Or don't pick her up...she will get spoilt... ur a dr u should know..n I can hear her gargling when she cries n she is flat!!

tiktok Mon 19-Nov-12 14:55:09

Which idiot uninformed person is telling you not to pick your baby up?!

Glad you have better pain killers now smile

Sorry, not understanding some of your post, especially about spit ups.

Hope things get better for you soon.

ZuleikaD Mon 19-Nov-12 15:02:07

Numusho do you mean you think she has another problem other than normal posseting? (I think that's what you mean by spit-up). Quite a lot of milk can be brought up after a feed without it being a problem - dd used to posset in her sleep quite happily and I'd pick her up only to discover a puddle underneath her.

Numusho Mon 19-Nov-12 19:33:09

I think she has a bit of regurgitation. I have to hold her upright for good half hour before I can put her down. I thought it was normal posseting but she brings up almost everything then crying for a feed. Hiccups n coughing when I put her down.
I probably just have a baby who is a bit fussy n my nerves r stretched from everybody telling me I should know these things!!! Medical books lie!!!
tiktok thanks....oh everybody around me whose had babies r good at telling me....it's good for them to cry....Even at the waiting room today..random lady after cooing at Dd says oh make sure u leave her alone for a bit...new babies everybody likes to pick n then she will constantly want to be picked up....no sense in spoiling them. I was gobsmacked n just stared at her like what the.....?

If it feels like I'm ranting....it's probably coz my brains have baby virus in them n sorry if I was not very clear....just over whelmed I guess

tiktok Mon 19-Nov-12 22:31:26

numusho, the medical books don't have much to say about normal, healthy babies and it may be your baby is just that smile

Lots of young babies possett a lot and need careful upright holding for a while after feeds - this is not a sign of anything wrong, honest. All babies get hiccups from time to time, sometimes a lot. All babies cough and splutter. It's normal for a baby who possetts to want feeding afterwards.

It is utterly ridiculous to think that babies get spoiled by being held and loved and responded to - what nonsense!! Have confidence in yourself and your instincts and don't let others undermine you.

whenwill Tue 20-Nov-12 16:37:22

All sounds very much like reflux behaviour to me (dd had hiccups and needed to be held up too)- is it projectile vomit? And my gp and paediatrician missed the tongue tie too. Get an upright sling (one that doesn't bend body) e.g. baby bjorn, and/or upright bouncer for after feeds. It will get better and gaviscon should help

Numusho Wed 21-Nov-12 11:31:40

I suggested reflux to the gp but dd a bit young for gaviscon. I'm looking to buy a sling to carry her upright but its gonna have to wait sad
Oh yeah her vomits a spectacular projectile via nose n mouth. They r rare..usually she was fed lying down. (Not by me) Right now she sleeping upright on my tummy after crying herself to sleep. sad
I put gripe water with her feed, she refused the bottle. I put it in a syringe for her she spat it out.

The Ergobaby is a really comfortable sling that you can get a newborn insert for so you can carry her upright. It's got a little hood/canopy thing you can pull over her head to block out stimulation so she can sleep in it too. I wish I'd had this one with DS from the start, but like a mug, I got a Baby Bjorn and by the time my screaming back and shoulders told me it was a bad choice, he was too hooked on 'crotch dangling' to try anything else!

Numusho Wed 21-Nov-12 15:40:09

I was looking at the Kari me cloth slings. Still waiting to hear from the physiotherapist for a review on my SPD ....
I still want to try n breast feed her rather than EBM but now she chews on my nipple n it's so painful...she is resting on my boob n it HURTS!!!

It took me eight weeks to be remotely pain free with BFing. At the time it felt like forever but now it feels like hardly any time at all and all of the pain and stress was COMPLETELY worth it. You've done so well to keep going this long. It does pay dividends in the end! smile

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