Mumsnet Talk

It is getting more not less painful to the point that I cry each time we feed. I have had a multitude of advice on the latch but never seems to help. My nipples are cracked and bleeding and getting worse. I do not want to give up, but I am at my wits end. He is only 2 weeks old. I had mastitis last 2 days which didn't help. I a pumping the right today and will give him the milk in a bottle to give the nipple a break.

Could nipple shields be worth a try? This is worse than labour!!

Despite what many people will tell you, and I will get flamed here no doubt, you can take a little break for a day or two and it won't all dry up instantly. Get to doc and sort out nipples. Get some formula for baby. Get someone else to feed baby for a feed and go to bed. When you've had some sleep have a think about what you want to do. Most important is for you and baby to be calm and pain free. Much love x

Thank you. I really want to be able to do it... Just bought gel pads and medela shields and will go to breastfeeding cafe tomorrow. I don't understand why it is getting more rather than less painful though It does make you miserable not being able to do it though

Good luck, whatever you choose. It is so hard (and at 6m I am really glad I persevered - but I think now with hindsight that I'd also have forgiven myself if I'd switched to ff). Have you ruled out tt?

Oh, and the single thing I would most like to say to postpartum me is: it's not a test or a competition. It's not a personal failing, and while bf is natural and instinctual it's also a new skill to learn and each mother-baby dyad has a different starting point.

Stopping for a couple of days when you've had mastitis is not a good idea! It can make things a whole lot worse. It's really important to get the ducts unblocked by keeping the milk flowing, whether you decide you want to carry on BF or not.

Hopefully the breastfeeding cafe will be able to help you out. From what you've said it may be worth asking about tongue tie. There may not be anyone who is qualified to check so if you are told he doesn't have one you can ask for a second opinion from someone else. Sometimes they are hard to spot.

He has been diagnosed with a small tongue tie but the lactation consultant said she doesn't think it is bad enough to need cutting. I haven't stopped by the way! I am just expressing as well to help ease the pressure on my nipples.

I have now seen 5 different people and nobody has been able to help me get a better latch yet it is getting more painful so clearly that is the problem.

Needsadviceplease thanks. And I know you are right. But I really want to do this!!

Nipple shields meant that I could carry on breast-feeding my DS. I used them from when he was about 1 week old right up to when he self weaned at 13 months. I would recommend them, and I would use them again if it meant that I could continue breast feeding.

I just wanted to give a message of support. It's bloody awful isn't it?! But....it does get easier, soooo much easier, and quickly.

If you want to carry on then keep talking to people, it helped me to write a note (on iPhone) in middle of night when it was really bad so I could talk through it with someone the next day, at a bf cafe, on phone to la leche or on here. Suddenly the pain will ease. Until then take one feed at a time and use tons of lansinoh.

You can do it, if you want to keep going, one feed at a time

Also rugby hold helped me with latch. Have you tried different holds?

The pain is something else entirely isn't it?! I found expressing for a couple of days was just enough to give my nipples a break. Didn't have a problem after that
Not everyone agrees with nipple shields and expressing that early on, but bugger them! It worked for me and I fully intend to do it again if necessary when DC2 comes along in April.
Good luck OP x

If your nipples are shredded and you're getting mastitis then surely the TT is affecting feeding Can you get anyone else to have a look?

Nipple shields can sometimes help but occasionally they can cause problems so I would work with a BF counsellor or IBCLC if you are going to use them. It's not about 'disagreeing' with nipple shields but making sure you have all the information before you make a decision.

I am feeling more positive just reading your messages so thank you very much. I don't blame anyone for switching to formula as this is bloody hard, but I do just want to give it absolutely my best shot.

I think the only way I will be able to persevere is to experiment with expressing and shields so fingers crossed. This cafe tomorrow is run by a really good German woman and she helped last week so am hopeful about that too...

She will be a good second opinion on the tongue tie too. It is a partial posterior one apparently...

An TT = tongue tie. Yes eau rouge that is what I thought. I will ask this lady tomorrow and see what she says. If it does need snipping, better sooner rather than later I guess.

An should be ah!

This is a good post about tongue tie, might be worth a quick look if you get time before tomorrow. Good luck

So sorry you are having such a bad time , I had similar and it was awful. Like you I didn't want to give up either and persevered and persevered..

Dd1 fed on both sides so my midwife advised expressing and to give a top up with ebm so that one nipple could rest at each feed, giving it time to heal. Lots of airdrying too, and breastmilk on nipples.

I did not get on with the shields but they're worth a try.

Really gope it gets better soon, and I totally relate to not wanting to give up. Even when the midwife suggested I stopped I still couldn't take the decision [stubborn emoticon]

You have my sympathy, and as other say, nobody is going to beat you up if you stop. If you want to continue, I second everyone elses advice. Tucking them under your arm can help, or lying on the bed next to them. Keep slathering them in cream, I used to use camillosan, and just persevere. I had mastitis several times, the first was the most horrendous, and each time it was less.
Bf is a bit like breaking in a new pair of shoes. You'll get rubs and sore bits and blisters, but eventually everything hardens up and its comfy. Expressing can help, but IME, the more you actually feed, the sooner it will get better.

I've bf four children, and I know some hard core bf people would disagree with this, but from bitter experience, I would be inclined to pump away, feed him the breast milk in a bottle, and stop bf personally for a couple of days. Put some nipple cream on to promote moist healing. Air them most of the time. Relax and have a small alcoholic beverage and a bar of chocolate, and stop fretting.

It can be uncomfortable for the first 6 weeks as your nipples toughen up to do the job. See yourself as being in training at this stage. Just because you are hitting the wall now, does not mean you will have to stop. You just have to get clever and pace yourself, like a bf Olympian.

When you start again, one trick is to lie right back on a load of pillows like an exotic goddess, and let the baby clamber about on you rooting for the nipple, and getting himself into a good position, while you chill and eat grapes and the like. (There's a technical term for this I have forgotten).

I also wonder about tongue tie, btw.

I also found bf really agonising at the start. It is wretched! However I am still going at 7 months and now seriously considering going full term till dd self weans. I don't think I would have believed back then how much better it would get for me.

I second those who say express a bit. For the first month I expressed everyday and then dp did a bottle feed for the 3am wake up as this was the one that always had me in floods of tears. It really made all the difference.

Also remember its not the end o the world if you do stop so instead of think 'I have to do this for the next year', just tell yourself you'll get through the next day or week and then you will review. Then try the next month and review. Smaller timescales and allowing yourself times to stop and decide if things are getting better or not make it just seem more manageable and give you a get out clause that doesn't leave you feeling you haven't met some distant target.

Lastly, really just stop doing anything else apart from feeding and looking after your DC. Get some DVDs and lots of cake and just take it as easy as possible. You are doing super!

Congrats on your baby!! i remember your posts from pregnancy.

Sorry to hear you are having a hard time. Nothing can prepare you for how hard BFing is. I had a total nightmare with pretty much every problem going. i would absolutely get the tongue tie looked at again. i'd be v surprised if it wasn't the root of your problems. This thread may help you

I had DS done privately at 6 weeks in the end, as nobody would refer me. Despite pretty much living in the BFing cafes i still got bad advice. Things are much better now & i'm still feeding at 6 months.

The symptom list they give you at Kings College is:

Nipple pain
Nipple trauma
Poor latch quality
Prolonged jaundice
Noisy feeding (clicking etc)
Head rocking
Poor weigh gain
Frustration
THrush
Mastitis
Colic

I had a full house apart from the gaining weight. In the interim, i found the ruby hold really useful. the deep latch technique and the flipple were life savers, as was biological nurturing when i got too stressed with the constant latching on.

Hang in there, it does get better. You shouldn't have to work this hard to successfully BF but there isn't much good support out there. Le leche have been brill too, far better than the cafes.

Epic but HTH!

Thanks all. I just read that TT thread and it does sound like that could be the issue. This lady at the cafe tomorrow is meant to be hot on it so will see what she says. Seriouslysleepdeprived I have all those symptoms except colic.

I am already feeling better as I expressed 1.5 ounces this am from the right, which is the worst affected, he guzzled it down and then fed for 25 mins from the left so I feel like maybe this will work to give my nipples a break to heal then if t is tongue tie, we can get it sorted. It really does sound like it might be though. It is annoying as I had the lactation person who cuts out last night and she said she would prefer me to work on my latch before doing the cut... Having said that, I don't want to distress him unnecessarily so the probably is the right approach.

Thanks for all your words of support

How much should you be expressing out of interest if you are going to supplement your breastfed milk with expressed? Thanks

Just wanted to offer sympathy I had 4 weeks of extreme pain too. If you can get through it, it's really worth all the pain. It becomes easy eventually. And yes much worse than labour.

Whatever you do don't take a break you'll be at very high risk of further mastitis. If need be you could express and bottle feed full time for a couple of days and get a break that way?

I would go with resolving tongue tie! Our baby had what they called a mild tongue tie. Had it looked at by a private lactation consultant at 5 days who said cutting it may or may not work but worth a try anyway. It worked and he fed successfully from the next day and we haven't had any trouble since. So I would highly recommend that.

Re amount of breast milk for a feed I think its 3-4oz but there is good info on kellymom about that sorry can't link from here.

Good luck!

People who talk about "small" or "mild" tongue tie are usually referring to a posterior tie. Saying that it's not needing cut when it is clearly affecting the feeding shows a lack of understanding about posterior ties.

If you get no joy from the next person you ask about it, I would consider contacting Milk Matters who EauRougue linked to. They can advise you of knowledgeable tt people in your area. Be warned that many HCPs don't have much specialist knowledge.

DS1 had undiagnosed tongue tie until he was 6yo and had multiple problems which I now know are related to the tt. If I knew then what I know now, I would have done my utmost to get the tongue tie issues resolved when he was a baby.

There is also a tongue tie support group on Facebook.

We had the same problem as you- my nips looked like a dog chewed them, I was crying with pain and DS was feeding literally all day with no satisfaction. He had the whole bingo card for tongue tie symptoms but there was hardly any tie to cut. The consultant snipped it anyway at my request (they suggested leaving it) and now things are SO MUCH better.
It took a few days for DS to re learn a good latch and stretch his tongue out but now he's feeding properly, my nipples aren't bloody and gnawed and he sleeps! Good luck!

I just made e mistake of talking to my dad about tongue tie and he said why do something that could cause raf distress and that 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it '. Wow. I wonder how he would feel to have nipples that feel like they are bleeding glass 12 times a day!
Everything I read here makes me think I need t explore tis more so I will. Thank you all

You've had loads of good advice, so just wanted to add a bit of support. I found it very painful, found the latching on very tricky, and remember being very upset about something that I thought would just happen naturally.

I think the pain stopped at 4-6 weeks, which was longer than most friends suffered for. DD1 BF until she was just over 1. Had no pain feeding DD2 and DD3 - both also BF until they were just over 1.

I wish I'd asked for more help; it sounds as if you're already doing that.
I went to a breastfeeding support group. Meeting others mothers, a lot of whom were struggling, or had struggled, was a life-saver. Hearing that other people felt it was "like having razor blades stuck into your nipple" made me feel more normal. 10 years later, I count some of them among my best friends.
I concentrated on one feed at a time. As in "we're going to manage this one, then think about what to do". If I'd even considered the rest of the day's feeds I wouldn't have been able to cope with the pain.
DD1 would wave her arms around a lot while I was trying to get her latched on - MW showed me how to swaddle her, which helped.
I would only feed from one nipple each feed, giving each side a 'break'. Sometimes 2 (or even 3) consecutive feeds from one side when the other was being very very painful. MW very reassuring - said that if I had twins they'd effectively have one side each, and my body would adjust.
I tried nipple shields, breast shells, Kamillosan, eating lots of seeds (I think they contain a vitamin good for your skin), keeping my top off, anything really.
One friend was about to stop BF, because of pain. Started gradually with one bottle of formula at bedtime. 8 months later she was still BF, with just one bottle at bedtime.

Good Luck. Hopefully you'll reach the point where BF is completely painless, and just a lovely experience. If not, and you end up on bottles, you'll know you gave it your best shot. (And there are advantages to bottles!).

I

Kellymom info on how much milk to give

Just to let you know had the same problems and was starting to cry through every feed! DD had her TT cut two weeks ago with very little distress to her! More for me. Two weeks on with the help of a great lactation consultant I have had a few pain free feeds on the left and still working on the right side!

Oh yes I must add that though having the TT cut looks traumatic (I had DH hold him while they snipped, I cried and my milk let down) DS only cried for about five seconds! Yes it bled but I fed him straight away and he went to sleep without a murmur.

Thank you everyone. I have seen 2 experts who both say that his tongue tie is really mild and have advised me to try cranial osteopathy first. Also reynauds phenomenon has been suggested... So I am going to try a few other things first before deciding what to do about this TT. I also have some new latch positions to try. And I hired a hospital grade pump to give my nipples a chance to heal over the weekend. I do like a plan.... Even if it might not change anything and we do end up cutting the tie. Your stories have totally reassured me if we do too, so thank you

Hi PollyIndia,

I posted about a year ago with similar issues - I was crying and swearing with every feed, each one got worse, but I was desperate to bf him (he's my 3rd, managed the other two despite similar issues with DC1).
DS2 was very windy (unlike others), clicky when feeding, terrible latch, poor tongue protrusion (I know this isn't definitely TT), and all the horrid nipple issues (lipstick shaped, cracked, bleeding etc). The feeding consultant looked horrified at them after 5 days. TT was mentioned as a possibility, but no-one seemed certain, and I looked into it here a lot. Tried nipple sheilds and just couldn't get the hang of them, plus DS couldn't get milk out of them and would get frustrated.

We did this (and it worked): I stopped feeding and pumped every 2 hrs (one gap of 3 hrs, others all 2 hrs). DS had one formula feed to start me off, then the rest was expressed milk. It was a pain, feeding with bottle, pumping, washing bottles etc, but it let me heal. I used lansinoh and moist would healing, and they were better in a few days. Pumping was much less painful. I was told you need to keep the frequency high (not the volume so much) to ensure you have enough milk (8-12 times in 24 hrs). Not fun to set the alarm to pump in the night every few hours!

When I restarted feeding (4 days break) I was quite terrified, but watched a lot of the video clips of positioning (can't remember the links, but they were from mumsnet threads - possibly milkmatters and kellymom, plus another american one), and really tried to encourage a better latch, using different positions to vary the stress on me.

I found that as he got bigger the pain reduced, as his mouth grew it was able to do a slightly better latch.

I wasn't sure whether to snip or not, and looked into it and decided if he was able to feed without actual pain to me, or problems for him (colic, distress, frustration, weight gain, wet nappies etc.) then I wouldn't bother, and monitor for problems with solids or speech later.

It was tricky and uncomfortable when I restarted, but each feed reduced in discomfort fairly quickly, and I never got cracked/bleeding nipples again, I think this was due to a better latch. By 4 - 6 weeks it was fairly easy, and pain free. Oh, and I realised my just carrying on with feeding when it hurt had led to worse cracks, so I was prepared to stop and express if I got hurt again.

I don't love bfing, but never have, but he has thrived on it, and at 1 yr he is still going strong (unfortunately mostly at night), and it has been what I wanted - convenient, cheap, a balm for all ills and not required the hassle of remembering formula/ cleaning bottles. He is thriving developmentally, is very very active, took well to solids, no problems with lumps, and seems to be making appropriate sounds for his age.

I really hope you get to heal over the weekend, and that when you restart things are easier - the videos and all the advice helps you through feeding. I completely agree with you about being worse than labour, and nipples bleeding glass is exactly it! Really, really good luck.

Thanks kayjayel. Good to hear you made it work. I have this hospital grade breast pump now so will pump tomorrow to give my nipples a break. Also, I have been helped with the latch by the breastfeeding counsellor I saw yesterday and it goes against all the received wisdom but seems to work for us ish... So I am feeling much more positive.

We have also been advised to try cranio sacral osteopathy so am giving it a go Monday. Has anyone done this?

Hi

I had awful problems getting BF established. After leaving hospital I had numerous midwives, peer supporters and bf councillors watch me feed and advise on latch but nothing felt like it was helping.

I had what my GP called severe nipple trauma and one looked like it was almost going to fall off there was such a deep crack. I developed an infection and needed antibiotics and then had thrush. I cried through numerous feeds.

I used a nipple shield to help and lanolin plus daktarin cream. I never thought it would get better but now at 6 weeks everything feels fine. She can be a bit fussy latching on and bobbing on and off but I'm pain free so hang in there, they will heal and it will get easier, around week 2 and 3 was the worst for me.

Who are the experts who have said that his tongue is mild? What are they basing it on? If they are basing it on the appearance of the tongue only, then I am afraid they are not experts!!

It's not about how the tongue looks, it's about how the tongue functions.

I would be inclined to think that a "mild" tongue tie does not make you cry in pain at every feed.

I would suggest that you contact milk matters who offer a virtual service to help identify ties and to put you in touch with local knowledgable help.

Tongue tie is about so much more than breastfeeding. ds1's went undiagnosed until he was 6yo and we are now working on correcting all the problems that he has had because of it and it is a long and expensive road to have to travel. If I had known what I know about it now when he was a baby, I would have had it dealt with in a heartbeat.

I knew a mother whose baby was looked at several times (once by someone experienced) and his TT was still missed- it can happen, even with an expert!- but this mum knew something was up and was so determined to get it fixed. She went private, the TT was spotted and clipped, and things got better right away.

You can find a list of private consultants here.

It's worth getting another look if things are still not right or if you're not happy with the information you've been given.

Mawbroon they said as he has a lot of movement in his tongue, we might be able to work on the latch and fix our issues. I also think I have this reynaud's syndrome thing as I have a lot of pain after I feed (and had excruciating nipples while pregnant when I ran or was cold, especially when I got back from India) so it is not just the cracked nipples. One of the experts, as I called her, said my nipples are pointing in a different direction and gave me a totally different latch than anybody else and it has really helped. So I am happy to work on this and try the osteopathy before going for the snip... Does that not seem sensible??

So they looked at the tongue function I mean...

But, if the tongue does not have the complete range of movement, the best that can be achieved by changing latch technique etc will be tongue movements which are compromised, even if feeding appears to go well.

Imagine you have an injury. Sure, you might be able to walk, but you may have to limp as you walk. Compromising.

Cranial osteopathy may help, but, if the tensions in the jaw/neck/head are being caused by the tie then no amount of osteopathy will be able to release the tensions fully while the tie is still in place.

There are many consequences to untreated tongue tie some of them here

As we are finding with ds1, it is much harder to undo the consequences of untreated ties than it would have been to prevent them in the first place. If only I knew then what I know now! He is 7 and I have just put him to bed in his orthodontic headgear which he needs to adjust the bone structure in his jaw and face. Just the latest in the long list of problems he has had because of his ties. Our dentist is also an osteopath and is working on his whole body. He has a curvature in his neck, caused by tensions from the tie. This affects the bottom of the spine and his hips are out of line too.

Extremely interesting work here from Dr Palmer about the important structural "benefits" of breastfeeding. DS1 missed out on these "benefits" because of his tongue and lip ties.

Also, there is a really informative tongue tie support group on Facebook which you might find interesting.

I am not saying I won't have it cut if it needs cutting, but I do want to make sure that it does need cutting first.

The osteopath I was advised to see works with a tongue tie specialist so know exactly what to look for.

I also have this reynauds thing which is causing a lot of breastfeeding pain I have realised

PollyIndia, do you cover your breasts immediately after feeding with a warm flannel? it may help

Yes I have to kd. It is too painful otherwise!

Who are the experts? I'm inclined to distrust anyone who recommends cranial osteopathy, especially in small babies. Getting a tongue tie snipped send like a much less scary proposition to me.

side from that, every bf is a bonus and the most important bf was the first few days of colostrum. As long as you do feed the baby something appropriate its not the end of the world if you can't continue.

You are halfway through the worst of the pain!

Hii! Another one here who understands the pain! It got worse and worse until I was crying and deep breathing before each latch on! But it all of a sudden stopped hurting literally over night. I'm hoping this happens for you.

Sorry if this is repeat advice but don't let your nipples dry out. Keep lathering the nipple cream on. Also if the baby gets enough milk from one boob each feed then stick to just one boob each feed. It'll give the other side a complete rest for 4 hours!

Mawbroon, that sounds awfully unscientific and expensive to me, if you don't mind me saying.If your DS was I'm such bad shape surely the GP should have him scanned?

BTW I have a massive tongue tie diagnosed at 41 (!) and my poor mother managed 4 weeks of bf before giving in (when I was a baby, obv). I think she deserves a medal.

GPs know damn all about tongue tie. I found this out the hard way.

Well my nipples have healed up with the expressing and different latch, and he has gained lots of weight. We are not out of the woods yet as the vasospasm still causes me pain, but I am not convinced he needs the TT cutting if we have got this far without cutting it. Things are markedly better this week than last anyway!

That is brilliant news! Glad you have managed to persevere and also that baby is now putting on weight

It is a huge relief! He is now half a lb over his birthweight at 3 weeks. So that will do. I think I will have a permanent crescent shaped scar in my right nipple to remind me of this! It still hurts, but it is more bearable. So hopefully it will continue to get better especially if I treat the vasospasm.

Hey this is great news! I'm so pleased for you that things are getting better

Why would cranial osteopathy be scarier than tt revision??

OP, my DS didn't have tt (I don't think - it is something I occasionally wonder about now) but was v colicky after a fast delivery and CO really helped with this and also with managing a more comfortable latch - the latter an accidental side effect! He had three treatments in all, he really enjoyed them and the difference - physically and emotionally - was really obvious from the very first session. What the osteo said about him made a lot of sense to me.

Oh, and so pleased you've had such an improvement! Well done.

The osteo didn't seem scary to me though not sure it did anything to help either. Also I have new blisters on the right nipple so we are not there yet. Was back to crying while feeding night before last. I might call milk matters, get a 5th opinion on this tt

Just want to say that I think you are amazing for continuing after all this! Whatever the next few days bring you should be very proud I really hope the pain eases soon x

Yes defo get a 5th opinion. DS TT was obvious & everyone knew he had it. Seven HCP's told me it was fine and wouldn't be causing the problems I had. They were all wrong.

Katie Fisher is worth seeing if you're in south London. Keep going. It shouldn't be this hard but is worth it in the long run.

I am north Seriouslysleepdeprived.thanks mygoldennotebook.very nice of you to say so. I don't feel amazing! I actually hate breastfeeding tonight. He has been feeding nonstop and it is so painful. I think I am done with this

polly I am so sorry to hear you are going through all this. You have been incredibly strong to get this far. Whatever you decide is right for you and R. You can hardly suggest you didn't try everything to keep bfing. How is he doing in other respects?

Hi Pollyindia, I had 11 weeks of discomfort feeding my baby with a
small tongue tie. Thankfully for me never as bad as you are experiencing but she could not latch. She was a great sucker so got enough milk her way. Sadly it wasn't until at 8 weeks I went to the health visitor and said I had to stop beast feeding that they took it seriously. I had seen a breast feeding consultant who thought tongue tie but couldn't refer to the TT consultant. I was sent to the GP who although made a referral could not make it urgent. It took a second call to the health visitor to get an urgent referral and baby was snipped within a week.
The effects were better immediately and kept improving over a week. It took a while because at 11 weeks she had to relearn her latch.
What I am trying to say is you don't need to suffer. Force your health visitor to refer you. If the feeding consultant says TT the health visitor will respect that and get an urgent referral.
Good luck.
Sorry this post is badly written, I'm feeding the same now 10 month old while she pulls my hair!

Polly, FWIW you have my permission to stop if you want to It's important that your baby has a happy mummy, and you frankly deserve a medal for getting this far IMO.

Thank you! Everything is much bleaker at night, isn't it! And much more painful for some reason. Funchum, everything else is perfect.

I am going to get TT checked again, and speak to doc about vasospasm then if neither help, I will switch. I just feel if I can crack it, it will be so much easier than ff. but if no better in 2 weeks, then I will switch. I admire people who go longer. 11 weeks of pain sounds like hell Charlie!

Polly, even if you decide to ff your milk keeps going for a while and regular sneaky comfort feeds are a possibility, for example a regular bedtime bf is a popular bonding thing to do for mostly ff mums. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

The thing I am scared about with introducing a ff boffinmum is that it upsets his digestive system. He is very farty but (touch wood) doesn't seem to have any other problems, and the Hv said ff babies are more likely to have colic or reflux... Not sure if that is right but feel a bit scared of rocking that particular boat! Also, my mate was successfully breastfeeding her baby with 1 expressed bottle a day (which we have been doing) then introduced formula and her baby now rejects all bottles, even of expressed milk. So she has to breastfeed until er baby weans. I am also a bit scared of that!! Plus I feel like I must be nearly at the point when it will get easier, surely (??) and then it will be way easier than ff.
That is why I am persevering... Because I am lazy basically!!

I know where you are coming from because I was also too lazy to ff! Have you tried lying back and letting him crawl over you rooting for a good latch? The technical term for that is Biological Nurturing. The DVD is very good - perhaps your local NCT or LLL might have a copy you can borrow?

Link

I did it.... I had the TT cut. She said it was much tighter than she had thought as she felt it ping and he was moving his tongue around like never before. So back to the breastfeeding cafe tomorrow to work on the new latch. Fingers crossed.

Boffin, I did try bn but he didn't seem to have much of a nose for my nipple... Ended up sucking my rib!!

Well done...hope it wasn't too traumatic. DS seemed quite bemused that his tongue could suddenly move so much & was constantly poking it out! Hope things start to improve more for you now.

Did they show you the massage to prevent reattachment?

Have been lurking here, so glad you had the tt cut! How is feeding now, have you seen any improvement or changes?

Thanks both. No, thy didn't seriously, though she said she didn't think it would reattach as it pinged apart so strongly. Not right??
Cordiality, the left was immediately easier, the right still needs work maybe dye to existing nipple trauma. Also still have the vasospasm but hoping that will improve as the nipple trauma does. He was making the breastfeeding counsellor laugh this am by lying there with his newly long tongue out just licking the milk off the nipple for 10 mins... Odd child!!

Sounds like he's really enjoying testing out his new skills! Hope things continue to improve for you, don't give yourself too hard a time whatever happens, this is such a small part of childhood, there are literally thousands of ways we can ruin their lives between now and 18 years old, formula definitely isn't that bad in the great scheme of things!

I hope having the tt sorted helps long term - well done for persevering and good luck with the vasospasm (what is that?)

Vasospasm Is when the nipple goes white after the feed and I have shooting pains through my boobs. Exacerbated by the cold. Not been fun!! But hoping it clears up... Thanks Funchum. How are you getting on?

Cordiality, ha, yes. I am going to reassess at 6 weeks!

I had the vasospasm for a while in pregnancy. Mostly triggered by the cold & freezer section in Sainsburys...bloody killed. Plus I felt ridiculous walking around with my hands in my noobs the while time. Hope it passes.

We did massage for DS to prevent re-adhesion. It grew back anyway & I had it disrupted twice but it regrew. He was 10 weeks by this stage & we had found our feet with it all a lot more so I left it. He still has a pretty obvious TAy but I'm still feeding at 7 months no problems.

It feels like a constant battle I have to say... It isn't getting any less painful yet. Well, I have said I will give it to 6 weeks and I will.

Deep breaths!!

I had a very easy pregnancy and manageable labour..... Guess it gets you somewhere down the line eh?!

Yeah I guess so. I had a rubbish pregnancy, a stupidly long labour & every BFing problem going. I do have a baby that doesn't cry though....

Really hope it improves for you. Think its sensible to give yourself time frame to re-evaluate. BFing is not an instant thing my any means, it takes a while for you both to adjust. If you do end up stopping you will know you've given it your best shot. You can't do more than that. The vasospasm is an extra whammy to contend with.

Hold on to the good feeds & they may slowly start becoming the majority. That's how it happened for me. It just slowly got better. By 10 weeks I realised I was actually enjoying it.

And lots of deep breaths!!!

The vasospasm is horrible. Made it hard to sleep last night, my nipples were so painful. The weird thing is that the TT being cut seems to have made it worse. Is that possible??

They are learning to latch in a new way so it could be due to that. Kellymom has some good info on vasospasm. Did they say what's causing yours? Mine was raynauds & resolved on its own after a while.

How's the latch? I found the flipple helped with mine.

They said maybe the tongue tie, but it hasn't made any difference, so I am off to the docs later to see what he can suggest. Then at least I have tried everything. And as i said, I am going to hold on to 6 weeks before making a decision so if I do decide to try mixed feeding, my supply will be established.

What is the flipple? I shall google it!

He has been quite unsettled the last few days, crying a lot and not napping for long, plus feeding a lot more than usual. A growth spurt do you think? He is 4.5 weeks old and has just started smiling and cooing in the last few days also.

ah, the flipple! I have been trying to do that actually... will try and copy the video more closely

It took a couple of weeks for the latch to improve after having it snipped. I thought it would be instant but no, typically, it took a work. Could you go to the bFing cafes for help? I camped out in various ones for the first 8 weeks. Sure they were sick of the sight of me but I just couldn't get the hang of it.

The flipple really helped get a deeper latch going. it took practice & in a couple of weeks they are bigger which helps too.

Sound like a growth spurt. DS had one at 5 weeks for a week that nearly killed me! This is the big one that really establishes your supply. He fed constantly day & night. It's so lovely when they start smiling, I cried first time DS smiled. So nice to get something back!

Yes, it really is!! So this could be that growth spurt?? (she says hopefully). Or am I due another one in another week or 2? Don't worry, I know you can't possibly answer that!!

Went to docs re the vasospasm but he just said give it time, use the hot water bottle and I am doing well to still be persevering. So no magic wand!

I have read that growth spurts based on edd so as my baby was 2 weeks late, this could well be the 6 week one which makes me happy!!

PollyIndia I could have written what you have written... I feel the same, I am trying and trying and I am making very little progress, the pain is constant so now I am considering mixed feeding...BF is depressing me and turning me into a miserable mother... but the idea of not BF makes me sad too.

The same anothertiredmum!! How old is your baby? Why is this so bloody hard?!

Seriouslysleepdeprived, might go back to the breastfeeding cafe tomorrow. I have been going weekly to date.

PollyIndia I too feel I have tried everything, I saw a lactose consultant, la leche league, had a session one on one with a BF councillor, went to 2 BF cafes, plus the mw and hv.... when they are next to me, my latch is ok, at home alone, things are so different. Mind you every time someone shows me how to do it, I am on a chair and at home I feed on a sofa. I can't imagine feeding on a chair at night. My baby is 3 weeks old and I am considering very seriously to start mix feeding. I cried most of today and I am worried it will send me into depression as I feel such a failure.

All very familiar, but you a not a failure if you switch and neither am I. Breastfeeding is really hard and lots of people don't make it to 3 weeks, your baby has had the colostrum, and that is amazing. See what you can do, but the mos important thing is a happy mother. Then your baby will be happy.

I have also cried a lot over this... But you have to draw a line I think. Mine is 6 weeks. I am sorry you are feeling as you do and I massively sympathise as will many women on this thread xxx

I was planning to carry on till 6 weeks as I thought it was supposed to get easier then.... but I am not sure I can do it. It makes me really sad. Thanks for your kind words x

I wouldn't think about 6 weeks. Just think about the next feed, and take each one at a time. You may get further than you think, but if not, you have given it your best shot and that s all any of us can do xx

I am so sad people are feeling depressed about not being able to bf successfully. It's really not an issue to your babies at all, they won't mind - they just want happy mummies. Please don't feel guilty. Ff for western people with clean kitchens is a perfectly viable option when it just proves too distressing to bf. Seriously. And all babies feed differently so it doesn't mean you'll always have problems with future babies.

I think it is because I have put so much into it boffinmum. I can't quite believe we can't do it. I think once I have given him the first bottle of formula I will feel better... It is only my bloody minded ness stopping me!

I can understand that. Well, one bottle of ff is only one bottle and you can always revert if you want to.

FWIW I think you have done amazingly.

Thank you boffinmum xx

How are you getting on? Hope things have improved for you by now

Still here, still feeding... Though still painful. I went for more osteopathy today with this charity who do it for donations so hoping that helps but he has lost his appetite this pm.

Thanks for asking! I made it to 6 weeks. Hurrah!

Oh well done! Sorry it's still painful though. Really hope it rights itself for you.

We went to the Wandsworth charity one when DS was around 12 weeks. They were excellent & helped loads. DS wouldn't really feed on the left & kept pulling off all the time. Turns out he had a stiff neck but its all sorted now.

The lack if appetite could be a growth spurt too. DS lost his at the 8 week one which made me worry (again). Do you have the wonder weeks book? Really fab.

Get the tongue tie snipped!
No matter what your lactation consultant says, It IS severe if its causing latch and nipple problems!

My ds had a minor tongue tie but coupled with a dainty mouth, it caused me to almost give up BFing. He had his first, proper satisfying 20 minute feed the day after. The difference between this and his former 1-2 minute feeds was amazing. I carried on BFing after that til he was 15 months.

Oops sorry, I skimmed the posts

Hope you and ds are well

I do have the wonder weeks book Seriouslysleepdeprived and think we could be on the 8 week leap as he was 2 weeks overdue and he has started making lots of new noises etc. He was much more cry-y than normal yesterday - he is a fairly chilled baby as long as I sling him before he hits being overtired! - but I calmed him down by 830 and then last night feeding was much better. Still uncomfortable vasospasm, but much less painful. I wonder if the osteopathy could have helped. It is the OCC i went to see, at their shoreditch clinic. They are fab.

So I am feeling optimistic today!

Chestnut, amazing you had such quick improvement. For me t has been 2 weeks since the snip and we are not there yet !!