ooooh, it's handbags at dawn: Daisy Goodwin thinks we're vituperative...

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

here

Ri-i-i-i-ight. As evidence of our, ahem, 'mean girl' status.

So. Let's just get this straight. One week, she writes a column, roundly denounced as nonsense on here, spouting, no, vituperating on the "Breastfeeding Gestapo".

Coupla weeks later, we are the ones who are being vicious.

Please. Sort your own issues out love, rather than doing damage to other women struggling to breastfeed.

[Voltaire]

Lupus, Actually the baby feeding threads on Mumsnet can be deeply unpleasant. I agree with her.

[TheCrackFox]

I saw that and decided that she needs to toughen up. She gets paid for her articles to be published and people have the right to disagree with her views. However, we do it for free.

[fishie]

'rachel johnson is away'

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

Oh I agree, I have seen viciousness on this board. There are one or two posters who are awful blunt in their BF, erm, 'support'.

I have to say I have seen far more viciousness mirroring exactly Daisy's views in her previous article from those who attack those giving BF advice and support on here and in RL.

[LupusinaLlamasuit]

That was awful grammar. But you get my drift.

[MrsMotMot]

There are ineed one or two posters on here who have exemplified the 'Gestapo' style bf support that Goodwin believes to be rampant.

However IME they are jumped on like a ton of bricks by other posters.

Far, far more prevalent are the 'nipples still sore at 6 weeks' 'what to do with ff baby on long haul fligt' 'nursing strike! help!' '5 mo won't take a bottle- advice please' etc etc and the advice and support here I think is outstanding.

We do periodically get threads where debates rage but the majority of posts are well thought out and intelligent.

I think Goodwin's statement in the Times makes out the board is just a lot of ff bashing; it's NOT.

And as for vituperative?! Pot. Kettle. Black!

[AitchTwoOh]

that's pretty pathetic, daisy. just because you took a bashing a couple of weeks ago...

[tiktok]

If we are going to have a line up of who is the most vituperative in this folder, then I am sorry - the nastiest posts are not from people supporting breastfeeding, but from people being nasty about breastfeeding and breastfeeding supporters.

There is no equivalent put-down to 'breastfeeding brigade', or 'breastfeeding mafia' or 'breastfeeding nazis'.

People posting asking for support with their own feeding always get sympathetic and informed help, in my experience, whatever their question.

People who want an argument will also get what they want, too.

[GivePeasAChance]

I don't know what vituperative means. Sounds good though.

[StealthPolarBear]

Me neither.
Has she been reading people's blogs? That's not the forum. Or is she confusing the two...
I'm just generally confused

[StealthPolarBear]

vituperative

[StealthPolarBear]

It was only meant to highlight two bits!

vi tu per ative!

[WhatWouldtheGoatDo]

can't read teh article atm, but when i was bfing mumsnet was fantastically supportive adn comforting.

as for the stuff about unpleasantness - lets face it mn can get unpleasant about anything - anyone fancy fighting about knitting?

[JulesJules]

She is complaining about the lack of female solidarity, (in the Times) when she called women who offer breastfeeding support the gestapo? (in the Mail...)

Some people will write anything for cash, eh, Daisy?

[Bucharest]

What Tiktok said.
Perceived nastiness is just that. In the mind of the beholder.
Not just here, (actually, compared to other parenting forums, rarely here) but all over both the internet and RL, there is nothing regarding parenting choices more likely to raise the hackles of those who do not share your choices, than that of the way you decide to feed your baby.

I've lost count of the amount of people on other forums to whom I've slipped a quiet message which says "go and ask on MN and wait for Tiktok to come and answer" MN has given invaluable support as far as I can see, and the posters whose opinions/words are worth listening to are always supportive of, or at least sympathetic to, alternative choices as well.

[BunnyLebowski]

This thread (and another one running at the min) have really made me question this female solidarity issue.

I am a forthright, opinionated, intelligent but empathetic person. I never try to be deliberately provocative but I always give my honest opinion without resorting to personal attacks etc.

Recently this honesty in other posters has been attacked as being unhelpful and unsupportive. I'm wondering are we supposed to reign in our honest opinions and just meekly say "each to their own" and "there there" on all topics in the name of sisterhood??

For example, I believe breastfeeding is best for a baby. I understand and accept that some women genuinely have problems bfing and also that some women make an educated choice not to. But I also know there are women who don't even consider it because they think it's weird or hippyish/their breasts are sexual objects or because it's too much like hard work. I believe this is ignorant and odious.

It's not just breasfeeding, I'm very opinionated about lots of things

My question is, ma I supposed to agree with what I believe is wrong on mumsnet for fear of alienating another poster? Are we all meant to skip along holding hands and congratulating each other?

If this is the case then I've seriously misjudged mn and will reconsider my place here!

Up to now I have been labouring under the idea that mn was a place for informed debate and advice!

By the way I'm not trying to start a bun fight - I'm genuinely curious about this one.

[mummyfuss]

There is no equivalent put-down to 'breastfeeding brigade', or 'breastfeeding mafia' or 'breastfeeding nazis'.

Morgan Gallagher refers to it as lactaphobia so I suppose that would make "lactaphobes" a put down for some!

[tiktok]

Re DG's mention of 'bloggers' on mumsnet, I think she is using the word 'blogger' to mean anyone who writes on the internet - 'posters' might not be instantly understood, though why she couldn't say 'contributors to mumsnet.com' I don't know.

Good post, Bunny. I don't agree with your judgement of people who think bf is hippyish or weird, as I think they may be the products of their own upbringing. I am also aware that people with a history of sexual abuse may have a particular distorted view of bodies.

But of course these views should be challenged, I think, especially if they are posted to a thread which is debating and discussing issues.

Some of us got very annoyed here - Daisy might even have said vituperative - because of some very, very stupid opinions about breastfeeding in front of some infant school children.

But anyone can point to any number of threads where people are asking for support and they will find it

(thanks, Bucharest, for arse-licking post )

[AitchTwoOh]

i would be very careful to say 'born of ignorance' rather than ignorant, bunny, as the word has developed in meaning for a lot of people. and as for odious... well yes i do think you should rein that in tbh. i find your judgement of other people's decisions (without really knowing what informed them) pretty odious. it's all about cultural norms, and if your culture finds bfing icky then it's perfectly valid to be influenced by that.

[tiktok]

LeninGrad, I agree about correcting misinfo, too.

Best to do it calmly, as well.

Mostly, this is done.

I do think some misinfo, when it comes from people who profess some professional expertise, and who dispense their wisdom like words from Mount Olympus, and who insist they are right, needs a total hatchet job, though Blood on carpet 'n' everything.

I think this happens about once every couple of years or so - I have tussled with someone who claimed to be a breastfeeding counsellor (she wasn't), someone who was a maternity nurse, and that's about it, I think.

[tiktok]

LeninGrad - hatchet jobs, when deserved, can still be administered calmly