Really crap day - baby losing weight and been advised to ff

[EllieG]

That's it basically - DD who is 10 days old got weighed today and she had lost over a pound which is too much. MW knows how important it is to me to BF but said she would have to speak to paediatrician. He initally said to give formula after every BF but she pointed out that would be crap for my supply so they said to give one ff in the evening, which have just done.

I have had probs BF from the start, have very flat nipples so been using shields, and they think this is the reason why she is not gaining weight properly. Thing is, she is alert, pink, sleeping and feeding (I thought) well, pooing and weeing properly and generally happy. DP queried whether she might actually have been weighed incorrectly at hospital and given wrong birth weight, which they said was possible, but unlikely, and that we would never know. Today I was advised to express after every feed to boost my milk supply and we have had the worst day EVER. She clearly hasn't had enough food and hasn't slept properly and been miserable all day. I gave her a bottle of the expressed milk and she's just had her 3oz of formula, whereupon she has finally gone to sleep. DP said 'Ah well that was the problem then, we just need to ff her, she was too hungry'

I feel just horrible. Have been crying all day, feel like such a failure as a mother that I can't feed my daughter and she isn't gaining weight properly. MW said that, 'she isn't starving but she's not thriving' and I feel so bad. But have followed their advice today and she has been really hungry and unhappy and other days she hasn't been. They are coming back tomorrow and monday and if she hasn't gained 40g by monday they said I have to ff. DP doesn't understand why I feel so rotten and I know is not logical but I feel like I've failed her.

Sorry for long moaning post. Can't stop crying now is so stupid. Advice please.

[LittleMyDancing]

Oh your poor thing, no wonder you feel terrible, they're really having a go at you aren't they?

I'm no BF expert but our baby was weighed incorrectly in the hospital - something about converting from kilos to pounds and it caused no end of trouble, so it does happen. Sure someone like Tiktok will be along in a minute to give you some more expert advice but, this is very important:

YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE AS A MOTHER! You are doing your best in very difficult circumstances. Have a big hug

{{{{{}}}}}}}

[LittleMyDancing]

p.s. and my sister has inverted nipples and had to use shields, and it was very hard work, so you're doing really really well!

[EllieG]

Thank you. Big hugs making me even more sniffly but is nice to hear some positives

[moominsmummy]

ellie - big big hugs - you are doing a fab job

only thing I can advise is for you to eat a bit more - nice high fat high calorie stuff like cake. you've got months and years to sort out any weight loss for yourself so just try and eat loads for LO now

you don't have to ff by monday if she hasn't gained the weight - how dare they tell you that. if they can't be more helpful get a BF counsellor in or ask for a different MW

[moominsmummy]

can't wait to see what VS posts - she'll be hopping mad over what the MW said and am sure she'll have some helpful advice

[fishie]

oh ellieg i am so sorry they are undermining you and letting you down with this very unhelpful advice.

if your baby needs more milk then you need help to produce more with your breasts, not to give formula. or at least be told that by someone who knows more about bf.

have you go helpline numbers? will post them in a sec.

[WilfSell]

EllieG, please phone one of the Bf helplines for advice on how to help yourself in this situation since I suspect you've not been getting the best BF specialist advice...

Breastfeeding Supportlines
National Breastfeeding Helpline 0844 20 909 20
Association of Breastfeeding Mothers helpline 08444 122 949
Breastfeeding Network Supporterline: 0844 412 4664 Breastfeeding Network Drugline: 0844 412 4665
La Leche League Telephone Helpline: 0845 120 2918
National Childbirth Trust Breastfeeding line: 0870 444 8708

You can phone them now - there should be someone there on one of them.

I'm not sure your DP's comment was helpful at this stage: you can BF, you have been BFing and even having given a bit of formula, you are still BFing.

You are not a failure, you're a success, but you need a bit of specialist help to get you over this hiccup.

Well done for getting for 10 days, keep posting - will check back and post back some more later this evening - and in the meantime, please ring the helplines for specific advice and to offload your feelings a bit?

[Caz10]

sooooooo sorry to read all this, have been there, its awful.

what worked for us...i know every case is different tho..

• i got great help from the BFN - improved latch, which i think increased the milk transfer
  
• a really hellish 72hrs (like you they were coming back to check weight progress) where i fed every 2hrs, expressed in between and gave 2oz EBM after every feed - it was exhausting but she put on weight and never lost any again
  
• dh telling hV to get stuffed! you MUST get dh on side, you need support
  
  feeding dd just now and she is a bit wriggly, but i'll search out my old threads and link to them, i got great advice here
  
  1lb does seem a lot, esp when she seems ok otherwise, and i have heard of people being given wrong birth weights before
  
  they are expected to lose i think 10% of their birthweight anyway?

[LittleMyDancing]

Just want to say again that I'm not an expert, but until a real one arrives, my understanding is that any FF at all will diminish your supply, so it tends to be a slippery slope from the one bottle onwards. Not that I'm trying to depress you, but don't let yourself be bullied into it.

We had some very unsettled days with DS at the beginning where he just wanted to feed ALL the time and was upset and didn't sleep well, but he did settle down and did well and I fed him for a year.

If DD is making lots of wet nappies and feeding frequently and seems alert, then I don't think there's cause for concern, but a real expert can be more useful than I can.

any experts out there?

[Caz10]

oh - feed from both sides every time, offer a 3rd and 4th side if need be!

breast compressions too

[Caz10]

i got good advice here

[WilfSell]

PS I imagine one of the things the experts will say is to undress your baby, get her all snuggly and 'skin to skin' with you as much as possible, with as much free access to your breasts as possible so she can feed whenever she needs to. At 10 days she might well be unsettled and seem hungry precisely because she wants to feed a lot and frequently to build up the supply - it's a supply and demand thing. if it were me - and I know it's difficult to have the confidence to do this when medical people are telling you otherwise - I'd NOT be giving formula unless there were real health worries (ie she was looking listless, not weeing/pooing, seeming dehydrated etc).

I would just be letting her feed, feed, feed, even if it is every half hour...

[fishie]

right hand side all the numbers. read instructions at bottom about contacting them.

i can't say anything to you about your baby's weight, or what is happening re getting milk into her. you really really need to speak to a properly trained counsellor immediately.

tell your dp that the best thing for everyone is for you to keep on bf and his job is to help you to achieve that. he will be really needed to support and help you.

i had a lot of trouble beginning and establishing bf (also had rather flat nipples) but i persevered and it was all fine. it will probably be for you too but please do seek help.

[WilfSell]

numbers also posted below!

[fishie]

xpost wilf

i do like what hunker says about getting someone else to ring and explaining that it is volunteers. i had far more success getting hold of someone on a weekend night than during the day, as people with children are often at home then.

[EllieG]

Thanks so much, I just feel that have lost all confidence in my ability to do this now. DD has settled after ff and is all sleepy so perhaps is best for her? I am going to ring one of those lines in a mo I think so am bit better informed for when mw comes back tomorrow

[tribpot]

I'm not an expert at all but I don't see how the only measure of 'thriving' can be weight gain, that's far too simplistic. Everything you've said about dd suggests a baby who is thriving. What is 'not gaining weight properly'? Isn't that "not following a consistent line on this chart I've got" as opposed to any empirical measure of 'properly'? Or put it another way: if she wasn't being weighed, would you be worried?

There are any number of reasons why today could have been a bad day and it sounds like you really need better support, not finger-wagging "I want 40g by Monday or else" kind of ultimatums.

I failed to bf completely, and I completely understand your feelings of guilt. Logic has nothing to do with it. But please, please, having got started, use all the resources MN has to help you and don't be bullied.

Where are you? I do so hope you are local so I can come round and give you a big hug. Wherever you are, there will be a MNer who can do the same ...

[Olihan]

Ellie, have you been in touch with any of the bf organisations? They all have phone helplines and will often be able to come to you and give you hands on help with attachment, etc. The counsellors are very highly trained and know far, far more about infant feeding than 99% of midwives, gps and paediatricians.

Instead of automatically saying 'formula' to you, your mw and paed should be looking at why bf isn't going so well and helping you to improve it. The reason they're not is because they don't know.

If your baby is generally settled, weeing and pooing regularly, has alert periods, is pink - everything you say she is - then I wouldn't think there is any major panic. You have time to work on the bfing issues and make it work.

Your priority should be to get in touch with one of the helplines (they're open until 10pm tonight) and don't be pressured into giving more formula until you've tried all the solutions they suggest - and there will be plenty of things for you to try.

Don't panic, you'll get there! It's a tricky thing to crack but with the right help and support you should get there .

[fishie]

no no ellie, please don't lose confidence. you have been poorly advised and of course they really mean well. look, she isn't starving, even the mw has said this.

she will probably sleep heavily after a ff, it is not as easily digested as breastmilk, just think how you feel after a rather large meal.

you just need some better advice on what and how to do it.

[PeachyHas4BoysAndLovesIt]

Hi Ellie

If she's alert, lots of wet nappuies, etc then don't panic- she's ok

FF will diminish milk BUT not in any manner thats irretrievable if you feel you want to follow advife, rebuilding supply takes effort but is very doable

call the ABM or one fot he ohers- but dont be told you HAVe to do anything, its your choice.

if you choose to give one bottle, we did this before with ds2 and it seemed that if DH gave it it confuised baby less with reagrds to me still BF

[wayfarerror]

Please please phone one of the helplines for more advice and look at the links and so on. It really sounds as though your mw and paed are fixing on formula as the easy (for them!) solution - there are several things it seems they haven't done that they could have done:

• take into account the big picture e.g. wet and dirty nappies, alertness and so on.
• rule out the misweighing issue rather than putting all their faith in two pairs of scales.
• encourage you to supplement with more breastmilk not formula instead.
• look really closely at the latch as something they could improve, and do something like weigh before and after a feed, perhaps (I'm sure I've heard of this being done though someone might correct me) to assess milk intake.

To be honest everything you're reporting them saying screams 'not that bothered about bf on your behalf and keen to get you to ff so they don't have to do any more' - but they should be bothered about you keeping bf for your little one's sake as well as yours, and nothing in what you write sounds like bf is scuppered yet, this is just a difficult time. I'm not a bf counsellor, so I'm not writing from that point of view, but I can say that as someone who's been reading bf boards for years now, what you write sounds so so familiar - IME of observing people from afar (through their posts for help) in your situation it could go either way from now - and it could depend on the expertise of the support you can line up for yourself. You shouldn't have to line up your own expert help, that ought to be what you get by default, but sadly that isn't always the case, which is where the helplines come into their own.

For what it's worth I agree with the others, no one should ignore weight considerations, but formula isn't even the obvious thing to give as a supplement - breastmilk is that, so you can still supplement without switching to ff, if you need to supplement. All is really not lost!

You're doing brilliantly - this stage is also awful for baby blues and so on and generally feeling teary and awful, so that won't be helping - but you are doing really well. Good luck with getting some better information and help soon.

[welliemum]

Ellie, if anyone is suggesting that you must get some weight on your baby now, it might be worth waving this research paper at them.

In a nutshell, these people took a group of teenagers and measured a risk factor for heart disease. The ones who had the worst risk were the ones who gained the most weight in the first 2 weeks of life.

Their conclusion: that babies are meant to start off with a slow weight gain; artificially increasing the weight gain can affect their health later.

Obviously, if you're experiencing supply problems, you need to get this sorted out and you need expert help.

But don't let them bully you with weight gain targets. More is not necessarily better. As long as she's well in herself, you have time in hand to get any problems sorted out.

I had a similar start with dd1 - it was hard to get my supply up but it worked and I went on to feed her til she self weaned at 19 months. I'm happy to talk about my experiences but truly, I think you need to speak to a real live person who can watch you feed and give you advice tailored to your own situation.

[welliemum]

PS because I know how awful this feels.

[VictorianSqualor]

Tiktokt hasnt posted yet or I'd say just listen to her.

First thing is you need to make sure little Molly is feeding well, this can be told by her nappies, how long/often she feeds for/if she seems satisfied after a feed etc, weight is only an indicator, it is not the be all and end all!

FGS Alex went from 10lb 3oz to 8lb 15oz in four days! The only reason we werent referred t paeds was because I knew the rest of it and said I wasnt happy with that weight being the issue when I knew he was feeding well, but you need to be sure of this, from your OP you do seem sure, but I'd call a Bf helpline just to get someone physical on the otehr end of the phone agreeing with you, k?

Remember these people told you it's not feasible to feed with flat nipples!!!

As for having to use formula, tell them to fuck off, no-one can make you use it, if she is having an issue with her weight best thing is for you to feed her as much as you possibly can, I second what someone said about the babymoon, turn your phones off, get DSD a few DVDs and some snakcs for the both fo you and the then go to bed (Is DP off work still? If not DSD is old enough to help out anyway, she could always get into bed with you!) skin-to-skin as much as possible and keep M practically latched on constantly, even three or four sucks (Which seems liek sod all to us) is doing something y'know?

Obviously be aware that losing weight is not good, if she is happy to take the boob though, I don;t see how you fafing about expressing is going to help her, yeah sure, taker her off the breast to exoress so you can give her more nah. Put her to the breast more.

Lastly, you're not a failure, if you decide to FF then that's ok honey, it's fine, but make sure it's a dcision you make and not one youre forced into. Stand your ground, tell them you know what you're talking about and hopefully they'll get you some proper help, do they have BF clinics etc in Jersey???
I'm sure someone will know.

Love to you & M, remember J and DP need to help, give J the 'big sister jobs' and as for DP, I'm sure he'll do as he;s told.

(Was J BF? I'm sure it won't help your feelings eitehr way, but remember, different situation, totally different, you;re a great mum.)