Please help me to continue breastfeeding...at the end of my tether but don't want to give up now - long, sorry.

[Caz10]

will try to cut a long story short!

DD is almost 5 weeks old. Latched on well (or so I thought) at the start and all seemed rosy.

Then at about 2-3 weeks I started to get really bad pain on one side, cracked nipple etc, I was putting on cream etc but nothing seemed to be helping. Got to the point where I was crying every time she latched on, couldn't stand the pain. Lovely lovely BFN BFA came out to see me and basically my latch on that side was all wrong. I had nipple damage and severe nerve compression - OW!

So tried and tried to get latch sorted out, nipple started to heal up, still sore but bearable.

Went to BF support group last week, said latch was improving, keep going etc, I was starting to feel quite positive about it even though it was still sore and a struggle.

It has been taking AGES to get her latched on, basically she will open her mouth wide but not tip her head back, or she will tip her head back but with her mouth firmly shut. I know it is just a learning curve but it can take up to 45 mins to get her on, normally about 10mins, and it's getting me down seeing her distressed. It's also knocking my confidence for BF in public as it's so hard to get her on.

Now in the past week I've been getting really bad deep breast pain, went back to BF group today and they think it's probably thrush which has got in when my nipple was damaged. They gave me the BFN leaflet and I have a lot of the symptoms. Can't get an appointment with bloody GP till next week. On top of that, apparently my latch, which I thought was getting better, is still no good.

I really really don't want to stop, but it feels like this is getting harder instead of easier.

DH is very supportive, but I think he's losing patience with me too. He won't believe that the "nose to nipple" thing is true, and thinks she looks too awkward! Half the time I end up putting the nipple level with her mouth after about 10 minutes of trying just for an easy life and because I hate seeing her upset. But then my nipple comes out all compressed after a feed which I know can only lead to trouble!

I know these are small problems compared to what some people suffer, but coupled with sleep deprivation they are really getting me down! Feel a bit demoralised today too after a week of trying so hard to get the latch right and finding out I haven't managed.

Any words of wisdom? Thank you.

[fingerwoman]

oh caz, sounds like you're having a tough time!
a health visitor can prescribe for thrush if you can see one sooner than your GP.
or you can buy daktarin oral gel over the counter which can be used to treat both of you if you're certain that's what it is

I know how fristratins it can be when baby doesn't play ball when latching on.
I will try and explain what I do with ds when he is being a pain.
if you hold nipple between thumb and second finger so it is a good shape for getting into baby's mouth then press the breast below the nipple against her mouth.
when she opens wide just use your thmb to push as much boob in as possible.

does that make sense? I am not v good at describing it lol

[TheBlonde]

thrush is awful you have my sympathies

as finger says you can buy stuff over the counter for it

however you have a tiny baby - ring the GP tomorrow and demand an emergency appt. Waiting til next week is rubbish

[Caz10]

Thanks fingerwoman will give that a try!

theblonde you're abs right, think i was too upset when I called this evening - will call tomorrow morning with stroppy head on.

just fed DD and all the "signs" were right (as far as I know them) - nose clear of nipple, bottom lip wide out, big gulps and swallows, chin tucked in....and still my nipple is all squished up when it comes out...WHY???!!!!!

[fingerwoman]

CAZ HAS BABY BEEN CHECKED FOR TONGUE TIE?

[fingerwoman]

oops, sorry about caps

[TheOldestCat]

Please don't despair, Caz. Your symptoms sound very similar to me and it was thrush. I rang the NCT helpline and they were brilliantly helpful.

You need to get very bolshy - I ended up ringing the out-of-hours doctor and telling them how feeding was so painful i could barely do it (had thrush in both breasts). He prescribed canestan cream which I had to apply after each feed then wipe off before the next.

I'll go and dig it out in a sec so I can let you know which strength it is in case you want to buy it over the counter.

second the person who said contact your health visitor too.

My nipples were similarly squashed in those early months - they must have toughened up by now! DD is 14 months. And after all the trouble I had with thrush, latch, then apparent disinterest in feeding at 3 months, I am now finding it a nightmare to give up BF! she just won't hear of us stopping. So there is hope

[TheOldestCat]

was canestan cream 1%

Oh, a nipple shield helped for a couple of days as well. was great fun sending DH scouring the chemists of south London looking for them too.

[Caz10]

Thank you again. No check for tongue tie as far as I know - would it be done routinely? Will mention it at the appointment i WILL get tomorrow!

God thought this was meant to be a bonding, uplifting experience....

[fingerwoman]

nope, not necessarily checked for unless there are problems feeding.
some telltale signs are when the tongue is flat in the mouth the front edge is straight across instead of pointed, and also when baby sticks her tongue out it will have a dip in the middle making it look slightly "forked"
you would also be able to see when she cries if the bit underneath is particularly close to the front or if she can't lift her tongue up completely.

[fingerwoman]

I know exactly what you mean about the bonding etc.
I felt like crap when it went wrong with my first, and when the same happened with my second I just couldn't believe it. You want it to be a lovely magical experience and yet for so many people it ends up being painful and upsetting
fwiw though we got our probs sorted (main one was the tongue tie) and are now happily feeding, so it can and will get better for you

[naturelover]

Just wanted to give moral support.

I had thrush when dd was about 4 weeks old. First GP only prescribed low dose of fluconazole, ie the dose they give you for vaginal thrush. I had to kick up a fuss and change GP to get the full recommended dose (400mg loading dose then 200g a day for 14 days IIRC). I also modified my diet (cut out sugar, yeast, alcohol, dairy), took probiotics, grapefruit seed extract.... you name it (there are tips on LLL website I think). I used Daktarin cream on my nipples after each feed and Daktarin gel in dd's mouth, and continued for a while after symptoms subsided. The thrush came back but has (touch wood) stayed away since I got the full dose. Be assertive and make sure you tackle the thrush on all fronts and insist on the full dose of fluconazole. Thrush can be persistant if it's in the milk ducts. Use disposable breastpads and nappies (not washables) until it's cleared up.

I also had to get help with latch.

Four months on no recurrence I'm happy to say. I got lots of support and advice on MN. You are not alone, it seems to be a very common problem. Good luck, you are doing great and you will get through it.

[Sushipaws]

Hi,

I just want to send you some support. I didn't get thrush but had no end of problems on my left side and I used to cry at every feed. You must be going through hell, combined with no sleep. I hope your getting plenty of rest in-between feeds.

The advice these ladies have given is amazing, please do call for an emergency appointment or call bf support line.

Good Luck

[jennifersofia]

Oh I so feel for you. I think bf was one of the hardest things (but ultimately v. rewarding)I have done. Was vastly difficult with my first and I was in a real state, partly because I had been expecting it to be that lovey bonding experience. The things that helped us to continue: 1) finally saw a bf counsellor that really knew her stuff 2) expressed milk for a while and fed her that because expressing was less painful and gave my nipples a bit of a fighting chance to heal (you can rent electric ones from NHS (?) NCT (?) if you find hand pump ones too much of a faff). Remember, whatever you have done so far is fantastic and you are not a failure!

[weeonion]

oh caz - poor you! i really feel for you - and i know what you mean about it not feeling a bonding expereince as yet. we had alot of troubles in the early days but - dd is now 8mths and we have that bonding thing going!!.

i had thrush - and as naturelover says - you need the right meds to clear it up. you have to get these to start with. your nipples will never heal until you do.
when mine were in such a mess - i had to express at least a feed a day to give to her via bottle - just to give me a break. it worked for us - but not necessarily for everyone.
if the latch is causing the probs - is there a lactation specialist at the hospital for support. now that yr bubba has got bigger - maybe the positioning needs checked. could the person who initially came out from BFN do another visit??

take it easy on yourself. you have done well to come this far. i really hope there is someone to support you further.

[strawberrylace]

Caz10 - really feel for you - i've had so many problems too, including thrush recently. I also have Canestan cream 1% (although mine is the tescos version - so it says Clotrimazole 1%), and that seems to be working. I know many people on here will say not to use them, and I know they can cause problems, but nipple shields absolutely saved my life. Without them I would've given up at week 2 cos of the pain, and now I am at week 14. Mine are the Avent ones, and my 24 hours Tesco sells them...
Good luck for getting your appointment tomorrow - I am thinking of you....

[CarGirl]

can your baby/does your baby stick her tongue out? If you look under the tongue it shouldn't be attached underneath to anything near the tip end. Look at your own tongue and then look at your babies. I had square nipples even after dd's tongue was divided but it was far less painful!

[suzi2]

For the thrush, the best thing you can get are the tablets - you'll need your GP to prescribe the correct amount & dose as per the BFN leaflet. Don't assume your GP will have any idea, so take the leaflet with you. Some GPs are funny about prescribing them but jsut be pushy.

In the meantime, you could try using the creams. Either clotrimazole as someone suggested, or daktarin 1% (can't think of the generic name). It's sold as athletes foot cream and you can get it off the shelves in most supermarkets. it doesn't need washed off between feeds. For your baby, get daktarin oral gel from a pharmacy. They shouldn't have much issue giving it out as it's pretty safe stuff.

I'm not sure if it'll help or confuse you... but what I do to get DD to take a big mouth is: hold her tight in, quite far away from my nipple. Like nipple to forehead. Brush her nose with my breast so that she tips her head back and reaches up. It's the only way I can get her to take enough it - she's a lazy latcher (now 11 months) and will jsut grab the nipple given half a chance. Have you tried different positions? I was always more successful with the rugby ball hold in the early weeks. Also, make sure you're not holding the back of her head when she's latching. Hold her at the back of her neck and make sure there's nothing that'll stop her flinging her head back (stray finger, cushion etc).

[suzi2]

Oh, iron your bras to kill off the thrush to (like you don't have anything better to do with a 5 wk old )

[Jackstini]

Good luck for appointment tomorrow Caz.
We had awful problems in beginning but perseverance and nipple shield meant bonding happened soon after and am still feeding at 21 mo so you can do it

[TheBlonde]

How are you doing today Caz?

[Stefka]

I really feel for you Caz. I had similar probs - cracked nipples and thrush and it was truly awful. It did get better so hang in there. You need to get some tablets for the thrush too - I can't recall the name but it starts with an F. Someone wiser will probably know. I didn't know about the iron trick - I put my bras in a pot and boiled them! Quite strange really.

Are your cracks healed? I used jelonet and lansinoh to help them heal.

[sarahanna]

fluconazole.it is safe but just not liscensed so some GPs don't know about it.
the daktarin stuff doesn't usually work by itself but you need to use it at the same time as tablets and after course has finished.
attachment/cracked nipples pain occurs at latch and gets better usually - thrush - pain occurs throughout and after feed - and v sensitive to cold/touch etc. does this sound like you. it is HORRIBLE but fluconazole works a treat.
hope you managed to get an appointment - you really shouldn't have to hang on over the w/e. just call and ask to speak to a doc if theres a prob - receptionists can be arsey but when you speak to a Gp they are usually sympathetic.
good luck!!
and great tip about ironing bras!

[Caz10]

Hi all, first of all can I say thank you so much for replying, it has really lifted my spirits just to see all your posts.

sarahanna I think it is thrush, it is the pain AFTER a feed which is worse now. Latching on and feeding was very very painful before the BFC sorted my positioning - it's not perfect now but better.

I've been feeling up and down about it - frustating and upsetting when DD takes 10 mins to latch on, but I know with perseverance we will get there.

However am with both myself and GP - saw the practice's paediatrician (sp?!) today as I thought she'd be the best informed....disaster...and I was so so upset and demoralised I wasn't in the least bit stroppy.

She has prescribed me daktarin which I really can't see working. I brought in the BFN leaflet and she looked at it like I was showing her a big poo...in fact looked at it wouldn't be true as she barely glanced in it's direction.

Brought DD in as I thought she'd maybe want to look at her - I asked should I be treating her too, and she said "well does she have thrush?" !!! I'm said I wasn't sure, there were no white patches in her mouth I don't think, but she had some of the other symptoms, mainly being twisty and unsettled at the breast. She ignored this and said if she doesn't have white patches we don't need to treat her.

I asked about tongue tie she said they will check for that at her 6wk check...but no offer to do it today (I know, I should have insisted).

DD sat at the back of the room in the pram and she didn't once look at her. She looked VERY briefly at my nipple and said "oh it's a bit red".

This is my favourite bit...I told her I was having real problems with latching on, quite a lot of pain and struggling in general with BF...her response was...."right".

??!!! I waited for her to say something else but she was waving the prescrition at me at that point so I took and and left and cried when I got out. In hindsight I should have cried in there...

I totally loose my nerve around these people. To make matters worse DD has lost weight, and the classic health visitor response - "of course if you were bottle feeding we could fix this straight away"

• bad day!
  
  So I appreciate you guys taking the time to reply so much.

[Caz10]

PS silly question but I always use disposable breast pads, ie my boobs never touch my bra - should I still boil them?!

[fingerwoman]

oh caz what a crappy person you saw!
fwiw, mine cleared up fine using canesten cream and then the daktarin when that ran out.
that said, when I had it badly with ds1 only the fluconazole did the trick.
BUT, you do need to treat both of you. if you have it then it's highly likely dd will have it, even if she has no white patches. if necessary you can buy the oral gel over the counter.
if you have an nhs walk-in centre near you then you could also turn up there. I did this once at a weekend because I was in absolute agony and could barely feed ds1, they were really kind and got me a script for fluconazole.

can you ring a breastfeeding counsellor and get her to come and have a look at dd for tongue tie? you need someone who knows what they're doing