Mumsnet campaign? No VAT on BF stuff

[Freddiecat]

This has just occured to me:

The Gvt. wants all babies breastfed until 6 months old. I have just bought a couple of nursing bras (£22 each) - plus have borrowed loads. Also bought loads of breastpads and a pump (£25). I paid VAT on everything.

If I was bottle feeding I would pay VAT on the bottles but not on the formula as it's a food stuff. Also I could get it at a reduced price from the clinic.

This seems a bit of a strange policy to me!

How about we start a mumsnet campaign to get VAT removed from breastfeeding paraphenalia. Most women need to spend at least £100 on bras alone and this would really help!

[frogs]

Sounds like a good idea to me!

[Freddiecat]

And that's forgetting the £10 on a tude of Lansinoh without which I might not have been able to continue!

How about we all add up how much we've spent on stuff.

And has anyone been really hampered by the cost?

[PicadillyCircus]

I agree!

[muddaofsuburbia]

I've just chucked out a whole lot of feeding bras. I fed for 17 mths so my size kept changing over time. As I'm quite enormous up top (J cup now just a G), it was fairly pricey each time, but necessary if I wanted to avoid crippling my back.

Get that petition started!!

[prufrock]

What a good idea - do they still charge VAT on tampons and towels btw or was that stopped fairly recently?

[highlander]

Freddiecat, what a brilliant idea!

I'll sign - definitely.

[Yorkiegirl]

Message withdrawn

[Levanna]

I'd sign! I've been wondering if I can eek another use out of my nursing bras from last time, but they're lacking so much in elasticity at this stage! I spent loads on breast pads last time too (got through well over one hundred per week), looking into washable ones this time, but if I leak anything like last time, I'll have to buy lots of packs initially to cover myself . Oh yes, I had a glance at the support pillows for breastfeeding in mothercare the other day - £20, and the price of the cover on top! (Got the same at the market today for £7 ). I think they really should give us some leeway!

[spots]

Freddiecat, yes yes.

[Ghosty]

It is a great idea Freddiecat ...
But I don't see Breastfeeding as being an expense at all ... despite the paraphernalia I have bought ...
I bottle fed my son and this time have breastfed my daughter and I just keep reminding DH on how much we have saved in the last 6 months by not buying formula! Breastfeeding is so much cheaper anyway than bottle feeding so I don't think that taking VAT off things is going to attract anymore people to B/F ...
Just a thought ...

[Ghosty]

Just to clarify ... I do agree that they shouldn't charge VAT ... but I don't think it would make that much difference to whether people choose to breastfeed or not ...

[prufrock]

But if you are on a low income you get free formula in the UK Ghosty. So effectively the government is subsidising bottlefeders whilst encouraging people to bf!

[wobblyknicks]

prufrock - I totally agree with you that the government is encouraging bottle feeding by giving free formula but all they'd say is that they provide free milk for bfing mums, which is a good benefit but doesn't cover the total 'cost' of bfing obviously!!!

[prufrock]

Exactly wk - and why do bf mothers need milk? I only drink the stuff in my morning coffee. Far better would be vouchers for mothercare or similar as an alternative to formula milk, which bf mums could use to buy bras/pads etc.

[Wills]

I didn't know that I could have had free milk?? Anyway - brilliant suggestion I'll support it

[prufrock]

Only if you are on income support Wills

[Carrie (mumsnet)]

If anyone feels moved to manage this - collect responses and forward them we'd be happy for you to do it in the name of mumsnet. Time constraints at the mo mean we just don't have resources to do ourselves, but by all means go ahead!

[popsycal]

freddiecat may be interested........i will text her.....

[Bozza]

With DS I spent about £25 on a pump I didn't get on with, plus 3 bras at a cost of about £35, plus one lot of freezing bags at £6, plus one lot of breast pads at £5.

Would have spent more (eg tried a second pump) and therefore potentially not gone onto mixed feeding as soon if not for cost.

With DD I have spent £22 on bras (plus using ones left from DS), £10 on breast shells (leaked more with DS so would have been better purchase then but put off by cost), and £24 on freezing bags. Currently hand expressing into a pyrex bowl so not cost there although might have tried a pump if they weren't so expensive.

Cost for DS - £65
Cost for DD so far - £56. But will soon need more freezing bags.

[JulieF]

Great idea!

Incidentally the NCT and other organisations have been campaiging and a new scheme is coming in soon called something like healthy start. B/f mothers on a low income will in future get vouchers equivalent to the value that bottlefeeders get to spend on things like fresh fruit and veg.

There is more info

here

[Freddiecat]

Will collate responses then Carrie.

Ghosty I agree that removing VAT probably won't encourage people - but it would show significant support from the government.

Bottle feeding is more expensive over the 1st year of a child's life definitely - I think with DS we spent about £5 a week on formula which is approx £250.

But apart from a steriliser (£20) and bottles (probably another £20) there is not much the way of upfront cost.

With DS I also bought the pump before he was born and 3 bras (£70 in total). Now with DD I find that the bras I had last time are not quite the right size so have spent another £50 on bras and am using the old ones as back-up. Then there's all the pads - probably £5 a week on those!

The Healthy Start campaign is great - but what is "low income"? Now I am on maternity pay and we are on DP's salary only we would not qualify as low income I expect - but we have had to STOP buying organic fruit and veg for financial reasons.

I think a voucher to be spent on a nursing bra or pump (basically on breastfeeding equipment) would be a huge financial bonus to many women.

[StripyMouse]

Am I the only one here that isn?t totally convinced about your argument freddiecat? I am not deliberately stirring, just trying to think this one through objectively. I have read this thread top to bottom and whilst I can understand everyones annoyance about the cost, I still don?t believe it is the governments job or duty to give us financial assistence on this issue.
As has already been said, using this as a means to encourage the healthy practise of bf is an unrealistic aim so not worth counting as a reason to drop VAT on bf items. After all, bf is ultimately cheaper anyway.
To ease the financial burden is always a good idea - but where do you pick and choose which children?s items to do with feeding? For example, most of us believe that a high chair is an essential bit of kit and so shoudl the gov. drop VAT or provide vouchers to help us all get a nice, safe, good quality one? what about toothbrushes and paste? after all, should we all be encouraged to use these with help of a financial incentive? Feeding bowls, spoons, bib, the list is endless.
So why single out bf equipment? I wonder if your motives spring mainly from the percieved "unfairness" that women who bottle feed their babies are given a "helping hand" by not paying VAT on the formula and somehow this imagined level of financial unfairness should be levelled out? Is it really a big advantage for bottle feeders to be let off paying tax on formula? when you add up the cost, surely no one could begrudge them this small amount off the cost. If not wanting begrudge but just "level the financial playing field" then again, when taking into account the fact that breast feeding is cheaper anyway, what is the real issue here?I don?t believe that the government is being two faced by "helping out" bottle feeders but wanting to support breast feeders - the two issues are not mutually exclusive and it is wrong to use one against the other. Also, very illogical considering other previously mentioned stuff like unlikely to encourage more to bf in the first instance.
I paid VAT on my breast pump, several nursing bras and all the rest of the gear and not one moment did I feel ripped off. I know it was expensive, but no more than the cot, car seat and all of the rest of the kit. I also went on to bottle feed so have even more reason to feel financially out of pocket as I have forked out for almost all kit on the market - and we are not well off by any means.
Sorry, I am not deliberately trying to be negative or run your idea down, just trying to see the bigger picture and wonder about how realistic this campaign is. After all, there are loads of real issues out there that could do with proper support to make a difference.
I know that loads of you will want to run this other side down, and if you do, all I ask is that you think of your motives for wanting cheaper stuff - is it purely that you want cheaper stuff or is it that you want to "bottle bash" just a teensy weeny bit? (only joking about the last one)

[Freddiecat]

OK Stripymouse I can understand the arguement that there is an awful lot of babystuff that is very expensive and how to we say what should have VAT charged on it or whatever.

My feeling on VAT is that it's supposed to be a tax on non essential or more luxury items. That's why we don't pay VAT on food but do on alcohol, not on childrens clothes etc. I know there are huge difficulties in deciding the dividing lines but they are arbitrary anyway. For example you don't pay VAT on biscuits but you do on cakes (why are biscuits more essential than cake?). I suppose we could always use old rags instead of tampons and sanitary towels but most of us would argue that tampons and sanitary towels are pretty essential - hence there has been a long campaign to have VAT removed from them. In the same way - most of us would also argue that nursing bras are essential - for the support of our boobs and being able to feed discreetly. I actually don't believe that highchairs are essential - you can feed a baby propped up on your lap (not desirable I grant you).

I have no problem at all with formula being VAT free and with clinics giving out cheap or even free formula. I do however think that some leveling of the financial playing field would be a good thing and don't mind admitting that.

The VAT issue isn't neccesarily the key one. I believe the underlying issue is that the government is promoting a strong message that babies should be fed breastmilk exclusively until they are 6 months. Maternity pay is not good enough for most mothers to stay off work until their baby is 6 months so the govt says we can express milk etc.

I merely feel that this advice is not being fully supportred by the govt when you also consider that you can get formula at reduced prices from the clinics.

I certainly don't mean to bash bottle feeding - I bottle fed my son.

Perhaps the question for this thread should be:

Can and should the government do anything (practically or financially) to support breastfeeding mothers - whilst still supporting those who choose to bottlefeed?