HELP! No one believes me but there is ^something^ ^not^ ^quite^ ^right^... !!

[Mossie]

First of all - sorry - I know I've hardly stopped moaning about bfing since I had my baby three and a bit weeks ago but I am sure something is not right.

1. He never comes off the breast by himself. If I left him there he would stay on for hours. I have to take him off.
   
   
2. Moments after I take him off, he cries again and smacks his lips together like he's hungry. I put him back on... he won't come off by himself.
   
   
3. He rarely sleeps; he has bags under his eyes poor lad.
   
   
4. I bought the book Bestfeeding and read about a foremilk/ hindmilk imbalance and the symptoms of a baby with this describe him almost exactly, right down to his ridiculously runny / explosive poos (sorry if tmi). But their solution is to get him to stay on until he finishes all the hindmilk and comes off by himself. Which he never does.
   
   
5. I have phoned NCT line and ABM line and neither of them really had much advice, NCT advised switch feeding but it didn't work, ABM just said to keep him on until he finished. He doesn't finish!!
   
   
6. No one believes anything is wrong. Dh thinks I am obsessing and that I may have pnd. Mil, yesterday, finally agreed there may be something wrong. But suggested that the solution may end up being.... giving him formula for a few feeds and bf for the others so at least he gets foremilk and therefore some benefits of bfing. I would prefer not to do this but will as a last resort.
   
   
7. I am going to a LLL drop in on Tuesday, but I can't wait until then really, I need someone to believe that there is something wrong, otherwise I'm going to start questioning my own sanity.
   
   Please please please please someone tell me that I might have a point? And if anyone has any advice that isn't to put him on formula, please advise. Will he be all right until Tuesday without any additional feeds if my suspicions are right?
   
   Sorry this is so ridiculously long!

[whomovedmychocolate]

You sound JUST like me when my DD was that age.

Some babies like to nurse a lot. The foremilk/hindmilk thing is IME bollocks, it's all mixed in together, there is no pot of gold. Once your body had worked out that the baby had had enough nutrition the milk turns really watery anyway to stop them overeating.

Could you stomach giving him a dummy for a few months. I used one for the first eight weeks and then DD didn't want it anymore.

You are doing a good job btw. In the first six weeks I would feed for an hour, stop for ten minutes, feed for an hour etc. I felt like I had given birth to a limpet but it DOES get better.

[Mossie]

I have used a dummy and very occasionally it gets him to sleep but less and less as the days go on... I also worry that it is making his latch less efficient, and that is adding to the problem.

Whomoved... did you have to take your dd off the breast or did she come off by herself?

[whomovedmychocolate]

I found that if I pulled her really close she would come off on her own. Taking her off just peed her off intensely.

[Mossie]

I have tried pulling him close, he doesn't come off... well maybe he comes off one time in twenty!

[whomovedmychocolate]

Actually there is something else you could try - go to a cranial osteopath. My DD could not open her mouth very well, the big gaping maw on the posters was not happening. We went once and it did make an enormous difference.

[popsycal]

soubds like my ds2 at that age

please dont worry about the hind milk fore milk this.
It doesnt qork like that
all milk will have some hind milk and some fore milk just in different proportions - less hindmilk at the start of a feed and proportionally more at the end. If he is feeding around the clock he will be getting hind milk
If you give formula, he will get less hindmilk still as you are feeding him less.

IME it is just what little ones are like at this age.

Hopefully tiktok will be a long soon to give you more specific advice but my (unqualified but BF for 2 years) advice would be to keep going as long as baby has lots of wet nappies and is pooing

[Mossie]

Is that common? I am hoping that the LLL person will check his latch on Tuesday, if he is not opening wide enough is this usual then? May be a way forward!

[whomovedmychocolate]

Yes, unfortunately it is widespread but very little known. It costs about £30 to fix.

[kateyp]

Hi there! You sound just like me! DS2 now 7 weeks old and doing pretty much the same. As did ds1.

DS2 will occasionally come off on his own but it is rare - and if he does, like yours he immediately starts lip smacking and rooting again.
I went to a breast feeding drop in and they too suggested he was perhaps getting too much foremilk, not enough hind and suggested breast compressions to help. They also helped a bit with his positioning which I think has helped a bit in that he (in the last couple of days) has been posseting a bit of milk after feeds, which he never used to do before.

Other than that - I have just given in and expect him to be constantly attached! I have a sling which I can sort of feed him in (at least keep him settled - i don't think he is latched on very well in there!) which means that if there is something I HAVE to do I can do it. Otherwise I am sat on the sofa with MN at one side, toddler at the other and Cbeebies on the telly...!
So - I can't be much help, apart from I am right there with you!

[KristinaM]

sorry no advice, just well done for getting thsi far. sounds exhausting

[Mossie]

It is exhausting, but I could deal with it better if dh actually believed that there might be something wrong, instead of saying "stop obsessing I think you may have pnd etc. etc."

Kateyp yes that sounds exactly like me... tried the breast compression as looked at videos on that Jack newman site, didn't seem to work but I think I'm doing it wrong. Do you think ds will be okay until Tuesday if I just keep feeding him the foremilk or is he so hungry now I should give him a one off top up (from a cup I mean)?

[Mossie]

Actually Kateyp I am probably going over the top a bit I don't have any other dc's to look after unlike you so it is not that exhausting I guess!

[Twiglett]

Oh Poor you .. you must be absolutely Knackered

The foremilk / hindmilk as said in previous posts is bollocks

The reason a baby unlatches when you pull them close is that they can't breathe

I did have some practical advice .. but can't remember what it was now .. so I'm going to keep typing till it springs back into my mind ... arrrrghhhhh....

oh yes .. have you watched his throat to see whether he's 'sucking' or 'gulping' .. there's a different rhythm to feeding IME when they start its small fluttery pulls then they do longer ones and you can see the gulping (yes even over gigantic norks) then it slows down again .. take that slow-down for a few minutes then decide enough (at least I would)

give him a dummy (my first child had a dummy that we then threw away when he reached 3 months .. 2nd didn't need one)

Hope Tiktok will be along soon

[Mossie]

Twiglett have watched him, that is when I unlatch him off the breast when the sucks get less, we have given him a dummy... it does work sometimes but seems to work less and less...

I was in tears yesterday, I kept thinking that he must be starving hungry and the only reason he sleeps is out of sheer exhaustion and hunger... I mean I know that's a bit over the top reaction but you do get worried!

[Mossie]

Right dh will be back any minute with ds, he took him out in the car to give me some time off...

Will come back later, as long as ds will be okay until Tuesday with just what he can get out of the breast I will cope until then...

[Mum2FunkyDude]

Sorry I don't agree completely that this fore milk, hind milk is a myth. I expressed exclusively for 8.5. months and in my case I could see the difference in the fore- and hind milk coming through.

Secondly the first question is, is ds putting on weight, is he thriving and alert?

You can feel if he is getting enough milk only by feeling your breast, if your breast starts to soften during a feed it means he is getting his milk. If there is no change I would then start to think he is not actually sucking to get to the milk, merely using your nipple as a soother.

As far as the sleeplessness goes, I think most of us has the same experience in the beginning, we feel they don't sleep enough because we don't sleep well ourselves and the end of it we believe the babies are not sleeping. He might just be sleeping through one cycle at a time and be awake after 45min which could be enough to him for at least another hour or so.

Try getting a hold of the Tracy Hogg books, I found them helpful in sleep training my ds and getting him on a proper routine and to get my own sanity back with a little more sleep! He slept thorough from 14 weeks with one dream feed until about 16 weeks. He is now 17 months and sleep from 8-6. with a 3 hour nap in the afternoon.

[popsycal]

you can see the difference in hind milk and fore milk when you express as it separates out - when you first express it isnt separate. As is cows' milk but they pasteurise it to stop it happening.

I expressed every day for over a year at work as well as BF directly when at home.........

Look at baby's temples - so they pulsate a little in time with the sucking? People go on about ears wiggling showing you have the latch right but I never noticed that - but temples are quite noticeable IME

good luck

[Mossie]

He is alert, but he has not put on as much weight as was expected at his 3 week weigh in, but I have heard that is not unusual?

He is weeing and pooing, but his poos are really, really runny, just like yellow liquid...

[popsycal]

have you also looked at kellymom.com
the oracle of all things breast feeding#

there are also some videos which i will just search the archives for for you....

[popsycal]

yellow liquid is the norm for breast fed babies
they wont be formed until a. he has formula or b. starts solids
hth

[popsycal]

breast feeding videos on here
hth

[Mossie]

Have looked at kellymom... that foremilk / hindmilk thing does seem to describe him, but advice is just to let him stay on until he is finished, which is hard as he doesn't come off...

I am starting to wonder whether dh is right and I have something wrong with me but I would have thought that at least sometimes he should unlatch by himself?

[popsycal]

You have just had a baby. You are shattered and exhausted. You have the baby permanently attached to you. You can't get out of the house as he won't stop feeding. You can barely go and have a wee or get dressed as he feeds so much.

Sound familiar? It is such hard work, isn't it - but it really really does get easier. Hang in there

[kateyp]

Hi Mossie - not that bad looking after a toddler too - we have some toys that are only out when i feed - although DS2 feeds for that long that we have to resort to TV - thank the lord for Cbeebies and Nick Jr!

And I have tried breast compressions and am not convinced that they do anything (even though the NCT lady at this drop in said I was doing it right).

I was chatting to another mum at baby group and she was saying she worries as her DD feeds for 10mins then that is it for 3 hours. She wanted her to feed for an hour! So I have this theory that whatever the little blighters do, you worry!

My DH has also just appeared from his slumber (because of course, me feeding constantly from midnight, then up at 5 with them both isn't cause for ME to have a lie in ) so hopefully I will at least get chance for a shower in peace!

Keep it up - you are doing great. (I have acually advised my DH that that is the only support I want from him - cheerleading)

[3sEnough]

Sorry - sounds perfectly normal to me!! Mine all did this in the early days and it's a pain in the proverbial! Runny poos sounds perfect. Are you sure the baby is not sleeping instead of feeding? Mine all tried to and it was only with no 2 and 3 baby that I wasn;t able to as I had to deal with older one/s - number 1 child was awful though and had to be seriously persuaded that sleeping on the boob at every sleep was not the way to go..... In the end, I let them all feed constantly (as much as I could) in early evening when they were most fratchety - otherwise they were fed as normal and then school runs/nursery runs and a bit of screaming was had. They stop pretty quickly - by about 8 weeks I seem to remember, when your milk becomes established. N.B. I didn't deny them food/feeding in any way but just didn't let them stay for hours sleeping on me!