Day four. Desperate!

[Moonrocks6]

Dd is four days old today. She was born after a very long labour ending in emergency c section.
I think that my milk came in yesterday evening and dd has fed ALL night. From 1:30 til now with only very short gaps between before she starts snuffling around for nipple.
She has a tongue tie and her latch is not always wonderful but she tends to feed for a short period before starting to nod off. I have to constantly tickle and prod her to keep her feeding.
Sometimes as she is attempting to latch she looks disgusted and will suddenly gag.

Sorry. This has become a really long and rambling post but I am so tired.
Has anyone got any ideas what I can do to help? Is this normal? Has anyone experienced similar or does anyone have any advice?

[amysmummy12345]

Sometimes my DD must suck the nipple down the wrong way and gags. She also did this due to acid reflux, have you got appointment to get tongue tie sorted?

[Moonrocks6]

Tie was missed at hospital and only picked up on on Saturday so referral been sent, just waiting now.

[Moonrocks6]

Friday sorry. Not Saturday.

[Cuppaand2biscuits]

Hopefully tongue tie will get soon asap. As others have said first few weeks are brutal anyway. First thing tomorrow you need to be calling for support. Where in the country are you?

[amysmummy12345]

Hope the referral comes through quickly, definitely look for support externally. Fortunately my health visitors were spot on with bf support but I know some are a bit inexperienced /underqualified to fully "get" the crapness that can sometimes be the first few weeks of feeding... Lansinoh cream is your friend! Make sure your nips get plenty air, definitely try different positions, lying down is good, then if little one nods off you can easily move away with minimal disruption! I have mastered the ninja roll off the bed is little one producing plenty of wet/dirty nappies? How's weight gain?

[amysmummy12345]

At the beginning my DD only fed for 8-10 minutes at a time (I was in hospital with her for suspected seizures and had to keep a diary of feeds/nappy output... )

[Moonrocks6]

Thank you all so much for your replies. I will defiantly try to find some support.
We are in west yorks.

Feeding was going really well in the hospital. All of the mw who checked the latch were really happy with it.
I have had 2 different mw visits since I got home (one the day after getting home

[Moonrocks6]

And one for weigh in) Both said that the latch could be deeper and tried to show me how. TBH I found the whole experience a bit upsetting and it really knocked my confidence.
Instead of telling me what to do both manhandled both me and dd into the position that they wanted and then 'helped' to shove my nipple into her mouth. Oddly enough I don't have 4 hands so can't replicate any of what I was shown. It killed my stomach muscles.

I know that they were only trying to help but had to grit my teeth to stop myself shouting at one of them.
I think that it being so painful that move is making this much bigger than it is

Thank you so much for the advice and for listening to my whinge.

[Nan0second]

YouTube videos of deep latch can be helpful. Also biological nursing position.
You're doing great. They do feed like this at the beginning - especially with tongue tie. Hope that gets sorted soon.
Keep going. Feeding laying down is fab and I highly recommend it.

[Marmighty]

Day four is the famously the day of continuous crying (you) - hopefully things will improve tomorrow when you get some help. Football hold, where baby lays to your side on a pillow might help.

[KnitsBakesAndReads]

I can really sympathise, my DS was born by emergency CS too and it's not easy recovering from surgery while caring for a newborn. First thing I'd say is be kind to yourself and make sure your DP (or whoever is with you) is making sure you get plenty to eat and drink, take your painkillers regularly and get some sleep when you can.

The feeding all night thing is exhausting but it won't last too long and it will really help in the long run as it increases your milk supply. You mentioned having to keep waking / encouraging DD to feed - is there a reason you think she might not be feeding enough? Newborns do sometimes feed for very short periods then need to sleep again, so as long as there isn't another reason to worry about her milk intake falling asleep after a short feed might not necessarily be a problem. (Reasons to worry would be things like very few wet and dirty nappies, or signs of dehydration like a sunken fontanelle.)

I agree with everyone about seeking support too. Does your area have an infant feeding service? If you're not sure your midwife or maternity unit should be able to tell you. They might be able to visit you at home and would almost certainly be better at helping you with your DD's latch than the midwives were.

Good luck with everything, you're doing an amazing thing for your DD and it will get easier.

[KnitsBakesAndReads]

Also, do think about calling one of the BF support lines, I'm sure they could also give advice especially about how to manage while you wait for the tongue tie appointment.

There's a list of helplines here: [https://www.nct.org.uk/branches/north-east-northamptonshire/breastfeeding-support/breastfeeding-helplines].

[Tumtitum]

Google " flipple". She might be too small still but I found it helped with my Dd's shallow latch when she was a bit older. All the midwives I saw were well meaning but crap at advice re latch. Definitely try to get help from a La Leche League or NCT breastfeeding counsellor

[superking]

Her feeding doesn't sound abnormal to me, before I had my first I anticipated a pattern of a long feed followed by a couple of hours sleep, rinse and repeat. In reality it was much more a case of short feeds interspersed with dozing at the breast and an occasional longer snooze, usually still on me! At 4 days you will both still be learning how to do it so don't feel disheartened that you don't have a "perfect" latch, as long as she is weeing/ pooing etc you are probably muddling through just fine.

In terms of your tiredness it is really hard but you just have to try to get through it. Snatch whatever sleep you can, if you are desperate then doze sitting up whilst she feeds and get your DH to supervise so you know she is safe. Or do the same laying down if you can (I couldn't for a while post CS).

You are doing really well, just hang in there, the crazy early days pass very quickly.

[GreenFirefly]

Night 4 was the worst for me. Second night at home after c-sec and she seemed to feed all night. I was thinking we should get formula but DH phoned the post natal ward in the middle of the night and they reassured us it was normal. Once we were past that it gradually got better and we fed until 2 years.
Huge hugs, hang on in there and make sure you don't try to wriggle out of bed with baby - get DP to hand her over, I think I made my scar worse trying to do too much to soon.

[Moonrocks6]

Thank you so much for all of your replies. I hAve tried the football hold and dd will sometimes feed like that. I can't manage laying down due to c section incision.
We caved and gave her s dummy yesterday. We just couldn't go through a third night of that.

I was pinning all of my hopes on the tongue tie being the problem. This was snipped today and feeding has been worse than ever. She screamed for ages despite being hungry and wouldn't latch at all.
She is not gaining weight and is being closely monitored. She hasn't pooped in 24 hours. I just feel like such a failure.
I don't know what to do.

[KnitsBakesAndReads]

You are absolutely not a failure! You care enough about your DD to have made sure her tongue tie was treated quickly, you're persevering with BF when it's obviously hard for you, you're making sure her weight is being monitored and you're even online in the middle of the night looking for ideas to help her. None of that sounds like you're failing, it sounds like you're doing a great job in difficult circumstances. This stage is really hard but it will get better.

Don't give up hope on the tongue tie treatment helping. My friend's DD had tongue tie and she said it did take a little while for feeds to improve as it was almost as though her DD needed to learn how to latch and feed with her tongue able to move more freely.

Are you having plenty of skin to skin contact? That might help if it seems she's hungry but isn't latching on as it means she's always right next to your boobs so she can try to latch as soon as she's hungry instead of waiting which can sometimes lead to babies getting frustrated. I swear I spent most of the first couple of weeks in just a dressing gown with DS skin to skin so he could feed as often as he liked.

It's hard but just try to hang in there. This time can be so exhausting - both physically and emotionally - but it honestly will get better.

[Quietlygoingmad67]

I was in your exact position (other than my daughter was 10 day overdue) she wouldn't latch on properly and again the only time was when a mw or Hv was giving me a helping hand or two! By Day 6 I had had enough and my daughter was really unsettled so I made the decision to move to bottle feeding.

[Moonrocks6]

Hi and thank you.
Yes I've been doing lots of skin to skin, I'm just so worried about her weight.
Since the tongue tie was clipped she's screamed every time I try to bring her to the breast. She never did this before, the latch may have been poor but she went straight on. She just seems to gag as soon as my nipple is in there. The mw did say I have big nopplrs so am not sure how to balance this with getting a deep latch.

[KnitsBakesAndReads]

It must be worrying if DD isn't gaining weight, but remember it is totally normal for babies to take a little while to get back to birth weight. It sounds like you've made sure she's being monitored by a midwife so hopefully that gives you some reassurance that they will let you know if there's any need to be concerned about weight loss. Has your midwife talked to you about expressing milk and offering it in a feeding cup or syringe? That could be an option to explore if there's a concern about weight loss while you work on getting feeding established.

There are lots of good resources online about encouraging a good latch. Kellymom is an especially good website - this page has lots of resources about latching and positioning including videos: kellymom.com/ages/newborn/bf-basics/latch-resources/

And this page has info about encouraging a baby to feed: kellymom.com/ages/newborn/nb-challenges/back-to-breast/

If you haven't already then do also try to get some specialist support locally. Not all midwives are breastfeeding experts so it might help to look for additional support. Many areas have breastfeeding advisors who will visit you and offer advice. You could ask your MW or labour ward for details. If there's a LLL group in your area they might also be able to offer help and support in person.

[KnitFastDieWarm]

I had similar issues with my ds and we switched to formula. we were both utterly miserable and not bonding and it just wasn't working for us. It's ok to do that if you want to. Just saying this because i needed to hear it at the time - you're doing a great job however you feed your baby, your happiness and health matter and it's a decision for you and your family.
hugs, the early days are bloody hard!

[ZZZZ1111]

My baby also had a tongue tie and now we are 8 months in and still BF! The day after it was snipped he didn't latch at all - probably because their tongues hurt. It then took two weeks of hard work with support from MW to get him latching consistently and taking in enough milk. It was such a difficult time but SO worth it. My advice would be to seek all the support you can, from MW, children's centre, local BF groups, NCT helpline, La leche league etc to give you both the best chance of succeeding. You can do this!

[Tumtitum]

OP, my DD also had tongue tie and had it snipped at 8 days. It took until 8 weeks before she could latch without nipple shields. The LC who released her TT said that they can go off feeding at first because their mouth is sore and like yours my DD used to gag also; apparently she had a shallow gag reflex. This has got better but aged 8 months she still prefers a shallow latch! hope things get better for you soon and you are getting lots of face to face support

[amysmummy12345]

Can't really add more than what everyone else has said, I can imagine its quite sore at first, do what's best for you lovely, whether that be persevering with the boob, or expressing, or formula feeding... As long as baby is fed that's all that matters,