HELP! Day 3 - DS feeding constantly/tongue tie issues

[AndIAskMyself]

Had my DS on Tuesday, he has quite a severe tongue tie, which will be cut on Sunday. I had been trying to breast feed, and he is able to latch and feed, but because of the tongue tie, the latch is shallow and causes me a lot of discomfort, and means he is feeding constantly. Also, one issue is one of my nipples is flatter than the other, so he fussed at that breast and doesn't feed off it as much as the other.

Yesterday it got so bad my nipples started bleeding and feeds were toe curlingly painful, so we decided to give my breasts a break we would feed him formula. He had two lots - the first about 40ml and the second about 25ml, and then he was sick, and there was blood in it. After a lot of hysterics from me, the midwife reassured me on the phone that this was obviously from my nipples. She then advised to feed him every 2/3 hours, just 20 ml at a time.

This worked a dream last night and he was really settled. That did give my breasts a break, but we decided to continue mix feeding with the formula until Sunday to give my breasts some time to heal and I would BF when I could and also express when my milk comes in. Today my milk came in, but he just won't stop feeding at all - I know this is normal, but given that we are feeding formula and BM, it's hard to know exactly what to do! We give him the 20ml formula every 2 hours, but that is not enough, then he will suck at my breast for hours (which is painful) and if It looks like he's asleep and I take him off the breast he just wails. Also, the breast with the flat nipple is now far too engorged for him (even when pumped), so he will not even attempt to latch that and just wails when I try. I tried a nipple shield, but it just wouldn't work and he wailed as I tried to use it.

I have a pump too, and pumped for the first time today now milk is in and got 30ml in the first go. I had intended to save it for his next feed, perhaps to use instead of the formula, but he was wailing for more breast milk so I gave it to him and he just gulped at all right down, and again wanted more breast.

Just concerned that we're just doing this all wrong and he is having far too much milk and we will never be able to get into a routine. Or worse still, that it could make him I'll. We do burp him after every feed, but he rarely does bring anything up, so I feel like I must be doing it wrong. Could someone help? Can anyone offer any advice? I know this is long and probably a bit rambling.

I'm really hopeful that on Sunday when his tongue tie is fixed that this will make things easier and I can actually bear to breast feed more. But today has been horrendous.

[Orsono]

Sorry you're having such a rough start, the pain from a tongue tie is awful.

A few things - don't worry about feeding him too much, you won't be. The advice for newborns is to demand feed, whether you're breastfeeding or formula feeding, which is what you're doing.

And don't worry about routines - he's way too tiny for that yet, and you wouldn't be getting him into a routine even if everything was going smoothly. There'll be plenty of time for that once you have the tongue tie sorted.

Not being able to burp him is nothing to worry about, some babies aren't very windy. My DS never needed burping.

Have you had any support with how best to get him latched on? It's best to get someone who knows what they're talking about to help you in person. This will help even after the tongue tie is cut - it can take a baby a while to re-learn how to latch afterwards. I would look into how to access some support on Monday, if there's a local breastfeeding support group.

I would also aim to be expressing to make up for the formula feeds you're giving him, to make sure you're keeping your supply up.

[Alliswellihope43]

DS was tongue tied to so his latch was terrible
He was colic too, so nipple shields helped a little but not much
Even after his tongue tie was cut he gained weight then lost his latch, and lost so much weight that the said formula feed. Before formula it was non stop feeding crying feeding crying he just wasn't getting enough, I was exhausted and emotionally drained.points where I felt like a failure simply because I wasn't giving him what he needed
Unfortunately for me it went downhill because he got greedy and used to being full and slowly it surely he just refused to latch at all. I finally stop BF him last week at just over four months but I mix pumped milk into his weening food ( advised by gp)
One of the main reasons you breast feed is because of over eating HV said there's correlation between overweight babies that are fully formula fed. I breast fed long enough for him to know when he was hungry and when to stop
Try looking a BF drop on clinic they helped my aunt who had tongue tied baby, I just didn't have one near. She said the watch you feed and tell you exactly what you're doing and how to try it differently. For her she was being the boob to him not him to the boob, she said after a few days he latch right on and she breastfed until 1.5 yo
But above al don't beat yourself up if you don't have the stamina to preserve. Try your hardest but as my gp said, no matter when you give up breast feeding you will feel guilty there is nothing wrong with formula feeding and as long as baby's happy and healthy that's what matters. I spent many nights crying feeling guilty or not a good enough mum because I didn't fully breast feed for a year like a planned. But I did it for as long as I could I vow the next baby I will do better because I'll have learnt from this experience

[Alliswellihope43]

Oh try fenugreek and pumping just to make sure the milk is staying there l
Work hard and you can do it! Good luck

[AndIAskMyself]

Thanks for the replies.

I wondered just now though if he really is getting enough at each feed? Advice on formula seems to say 150-200ml per kilo - so if we go with 150ml and my DS is 3.5 kilo, that means he should be having 525 ml a day. I know it's early and he has a tiny stomach, but the 20ml every 2/3 hours the midwife suggested would only be 240ml every 24 hours if we fed every 2 hours.

Of course, I am also offering breast (though I'm pretty certain he's getting next to nothing from this) and today he's had an additional 50ml of expressed breast milk so far. But he just still seems so ravenous.

Thanks for the advice about seeing a breast feeding expert. I will, and I know the woman who is coming to cut the tongue tie will also stay and offer advice about latching. As I say, he is latching, it's mainly that he can't take a deep mouth full. Hopefully this will improve when the tie is cut!

[Orsono]

Wanting to feed constantly is really normal in the first few days and doesn't necessarily mean he's not getting anything. My DS1 had a tongue tie which caused me lots of pain, but he never had a problem getting milk out and gained weight fine.

It's great that someone is coming to you to do the proceedure - a lactation consultant like that will be able to help with your latch. I would still research local groups - everything can seem really clear when the person is with you, then once they leave it can be hard to achieve the same position and latch again, so you may need more support.

Was the midwife suggesting the formula amount based on you also breastfeeding? If she knew you wanted to continue breastfeeding, it seems sensible to me that she didn't tell you to give full formula feeds, as that could really compromise your supply.

[dollydaydream84]

Express regularly, I was expressing every three hours and managing to feed through the night otherwise I would have had to express to establish my supply. Even if you get nothing at first don't worry you are still "asking" your boobs to produce milk so it will be produced at that interval in the following few days.get some milk storage bags, freeze what you can, it will make you feel less anxious about not having milk available if you need it. In the first few weeks I would get 2-3 ounces from each side in an hour. I now get 5oz from each in half an hour. Expressing is hard but gets easier. Good luck

[AndIAskMyself]

Thanks for all your help - was really useful. We had the tongue tie cut, and the woman stayed for 2 hours to teach him how to latch again. I took your advice and also went to a breastfeeding support group today - it was really useful and so helpful. They did spend a long time talking to me.

However, since we got home, we've had nightmare evening where he has been completely refusing the breast altogether. There's a couple of reasons I think this could be - it could be one or all really:

1. the breast is harder for him than a bottle - so he is just refusing. But he does always root.
   
2. he has colic - his wailing is just a few hours in the evening. When he has a bottle he does take in a lot of air and He never burps much. Should we use infacol? He is now 8 days old.
   
3. my 'let down' is really excessive - at the breastfeeding support group the lady had suggested to squeeze my breast to try to get him to latch on better. But this evening I notice when I do that it sprays everywhere. And I have read some babies get a bit distressed by this. I had to manually express to stop it - I had to express about 40ml before it stopped spraying everywhere when I squeeze.
   
   I am determined to persevere as much as I can. But am just worried now that he won't take the breast at all!
   
   The support lady was surprised that I am producing a lot when I express - it's day 8 and I'm getting between 30-50ml every 2-3 hours. Is this a lot? Or just a normal amount?

[AndIAskMyself]

Actually- panic over. He is feeding again. We tried some more exercises in his mouth after he tongue tie cut and that worked