Mixed Feeding Question...

[Quootiepie]

read something on here about if I mix feed, im cancelling out the benefits im giving DS with the breastmilk. Is that right? Mixing has been abit of a godsend this past week or so, but if breastfeeding is of no benefit while doing it, there's little point doing mixed feeding, it would be better to chose one or the other? DS breastfeeds all night (so 3-6 feeds) and id say 1/2 his day feeds are breastfeeds aswell, if not more... some days he has more formula, just varies really.

Any info would be great!

Many Thanks xXx

[HuwEdwards]

Surely it's not possible to cancel out the benefits??

I always thought the downside to mixed feeding was that it can bugger up your milk supply.

[DizzyBint]

have a look at the tiktok thread quootie, they're on about it at the mo.

[Tatties]

How old is ds Quootiepie? I think any breastmilk is better than nothing, it's still worth carrying on even if you are giving some formula.

[Quootiepie]

9 months. Ive been trying to keep up with that thread, it's very big! Ill go have a look now... Thanks xXx

[olivhohoho]

quootiepie - i am confused about this mixed feeding thing still- it was my thread which turned a bit controversial, which was certainly not intended to aggravate!

i am now feeding 2 ff feeds a day and the rest breast, it seems to suit us both, dd is putting on good weight and is happy. I assume that she is still reaping the benefits of the breast but will watch your thread with interest.

[Tatties]

Ok, I am not an expert, but here it is as I understand it: some of the benefits of exclusive bf can be reduced if you introduce formula. But once you have introduced solids, you are no longer exclusively bf. Breastmilk continues to be of benefit to the child for as long as s/he wants it, I would say reagardless of whatever else they are eating and drinking past 6mths. Does that make sense?

But someone please correct me if I am wrong!

[Twinklemegan]

I'm about to go and read the Tiktok thread about this as it's a particular area of interest for me. So I'll just make an off the cuff remark that WE DO NOT NEED MORE GUILT-TRIPPING!!!! It is bad enough struggling and struggling to exclusively breastfeed and having to admit defeat and introduce some formula, without then being told that the formula is negating the benefits of the breastmilk. FFS! Quootie - was it my thread about the breastfeeding literature where you read that btw? If not, it came up on my thread as well.

Oh, and I think Tatties is right by the way. I think this idea comes from the "virgin gut" theory. Presumably once solids have been introduced there is no longer a virgin gut so it wouldn't apply. My understanding is that any breastmilk is good.

[Quootiepie]

I can't remember where I read it, but it was recent...few days ago? Made me double think about I was starting to introduce a bit of formula, and I felt like all my hard work when I do BF (because I need to go on medication, but am chosing not to right now, so I can BF) is being undone, and was for nothing. Well, if it only really apliies to under 6 months, I guess that OK. He's really into solids, so, I guess formula can't be that bad at this later stage. xXx

[Rochwen]

The advice I got from mw's, hvs' and the NCT councelors was that some breastmilk is better than none. Even if you only bf once or twice a day your baby still receives all the antibodies in the breastmilk he/she needs.

I think the only danger with mixed feeding is that it might mess up your milk supply in the early days but I was told that once your milk supply is fully established that is not so much of a problem.

I mixed fed from 4 and a half months onwards and it worked a treat. (...and I had my freedom back and finally got some sleep, yay)

So, I'd say keep mix feeding, the best of both worlds.

[claire74]

Hello, I've been reading these breastfeeding threads with great interest, there seems to be very contradictory advice going on.

An nct breastfeeding counseller told me recently that introducing formula, will lower the full benefits of breastfeeding to yourself and your baby. Supposedly you will only get the full benefits if you exclusively breastfeed for the first 6 months. However she did say any breastmilk is obviously better than none.

I actually believed her and saw a lot of sense in what she said, but then again I didn't know any different.

It looks like other people share the same opinion though, Hunkermunker and tatties and the controversial daisymlaisy! have all said the same and it did encourage me to continue breastfeeding as I was seriously thinking about giving up at 4 months.

[Plibble]

This is yet another example of an area which would bear serious study, rather than the old wives tales and cod-science which are so often doled out as gospel, hard and fast rules to women by other mothers, ante-natal teachers, midwives, hvs and breastfeeding counsellors (we have one near here who comes out with some astonishing rubbish from time to time).
It makes no logical sense to say that a bottle of formula would somehow negate the benefits of breastfeeding. What is formula going to do - eat the antibodies passed to the baby??? Does anyone know a suitably qualified medical professional who seriously says that there is no benefit to mixed feeding? What are the full benefits of breastfeeding and what percentage are lost if you give, say, one bottle of formula per day (I bet noone knows...)

As far as I can tell, the only issue with mixed feeding is whether you can maintain your supply while doing it. Whether you can seems to depend on the woman. We all know that breastfeeding is best, but that doesn't necessarily make formula bad fgs.

OK, that's my ranting done. But other the last 14 months I have been told so much rubbish (not getting at Mumsnet in particular) that it's no wonder monthers are confused. And a lot of ot seems designed to make other women feel guilty which just makes me cross.

[cc21]

Pibble LOL at eating the antibodies..

[cc21]

Pibble LOL at eating the antibodies..

[claire74]

well I considered my nct bfc a suitable professional!

Just found a leaflet, here are the full benefits of breastmilk for the baby:

reduced incidence of gastrointestinal and respiratory infections during the neonatal period and later

reduced incidence of otitis media

reduced incidence of juvenile-onset diabetes

better development, especially in preterm babies, of the brain, central nervous system and sight

reduced incidence of necrotising enterocolitis among pre-term babies

lower blood pressure in later childhood

reduced incedence of wheeze during childhood

reduced incidence of obesity, in both childhood and adulthood

reduced incidence of urinary tract infection

improved response to immunisation

PHEW!

Your absolutely right though plibble no-one seems to know what percentage of these is lost when you start adding formula- which surely is quite important.

Does it mean than if you just do one bottle they are lowered just slightly , whereas if you substitue with 5 bottles say and only 2 breastfeeds they are lowered to hardly anything?

Anybody know?

I stupidly didn't even question the bfc that told me- I so which i had done.

[Pitchounette]

Message withdrawn

[Plibble]

Of course breastfeeding has benefits - am sure noone disputes that the food made by your body for the baby your body also made is going to be most suitable. It just seems to me that the all or nothing approach esposed by some advisors has a negative impact. I know one woman who was told when pg that breastfeeding was very hard and that she would need at least 4 hours of lessons before her baby was born to be able to do it successfully. She then doubted her own body and gave up within a week of the birth. She was also not sure whether breastfeeding would work for her as she would need to go back to work quite early. If there had been more positive discussion of mixed feeding, perhaps she would have been able to consider that as an alternative.

[tiktok]

Somewhere in the last few days I posted about the research showing that breastfeeding gives a 'dose response' vis a vis health effects. So exclusive breastfeeding has the most impact on health, and thereafter, the impact on it is reduced as formula is used, making 'more' equal 'most impact' but 'some' equalling 'some impact' - I gave a link to a study which looked at babies in the US and the effect on their incidences of gastric illness and ear infection, linked with however much formula they had. It seems pretty clear that antibodies in any breastmilk are effective, and the more breastmilk a baby gets the more his immune system benefits.

Breastmilk differs from formula with regard to the antibodies and whole load of other stuff too - too much to go into here, but the 'ingredients' are all human and responsive to the needs of the baby in a way that formula cannot be.

All this immunity stuff matters less as the baby grows and takes solids, especially in a developed country with access to clean water - but continuing with breastfeeding alongside solids (or alongside formula) for an older baby or toddler or child continues to have an impact, on mothers (less breast cancer) as well.

I don't think any of this should be used as a stick to beat mothers with! I have said before that the stuff about breastfeeding exclusively to six months and thereafter for as long as mother and child wish (2 years and beyond, according to WHO) is not an instruction to individuals, but a basis for policy for governments to make it possible for women to choose to do this (to look at more flexible employment for mothers, say, and to remove social barriers to breastfeeding).

The idea that any or even a lot of formula cancels out the effects of breastfeeding is far too simplistic...and as I have said in the other post, forgets the fact that breastfeeding is a marker of a relationship between two people who may well enjoy it, and that's not even measurable by counting feeds or measuring millilitres

[Quootiepie]

the same applies at 9 months, as, say 3 months?

[claire74]

Thanks for that tik tok, so in simple terms introducing formula doesn't cancel the benefits out completely, but seriously lowers the benefits the more formula feeds you introduce, which your saying is what happens- am I correct?
your more equals most impact explains it really well.

[tiktok]

claire, I don't know if I would use the word 'seriously' as that's a judgement I don't think the research allows us to make! See if you can find the link I posted, and have a read.....or put breastfeeding dose reponse into Google and see what you find.

[Plibble]

Thanks Tik Tok - that is very sensible and it is good to hear from someone who looks at the research!

[amijee]

Tik tok and others with experience,

I read this thread with interest as I recently intoduced a bottle of formula on weekdays to my 5 mth old ds as I went back to work.

Since then, he has had terrible problems in the poo department. It's almost paradoxical - he strains all the time when he poos yet he is going more than ever - and all thru the night( I feed him thru the night but always have done)

I feel awful for him as clearly he is feeling the effects of something new in his gut - but will it settle down? I do express at work but don't get the 5-6 oz he wants and find it fairly stressful as well.

Is this a common experience? Thanks for your ideas x

[Twinklemegan]

Great explanation from Tiktok. If I understand correctly then - barring the virgin gut thing, the benefits of breastmilk are roughly proportionate to the amount of breastmilk baby is getting. That's common sense. Very different from saying that any formula cancels out the effects of the breastmilk. Also LOL at Plibble and her half-eaten antibodies!

I completely agree with Plibble and Rochwen re mixed feeding. Once a woman's milk supply is established, it's really for her to decide how important the undoubted benefits of exclusive b/f are in relation to other factors, as long as she's aware of the potential impact on her milk supply. For me, it was worth the risk to save my sanity and my marriage.

[tiktok]

The 'virgin gut' thing - the notion that any formula, even a small amount, may affect the gut lining and heighten the risk of (say) allergies - is definitely worth taking on board, and I think the theoretical and physiological evidence is there. However, I don't know of any study that demonstrates it in practice, prob. 'cos it would be very hard to do the research, getting together a large enough sample of babies who'd had formula but only a small amount.

The 'dose response' thing is pretty certain - but I am not sure how even 'roughly' proportionate it is overall, because formula impacts on so many aspects of health and not all of them have been studied for the dose response. The most robust ones that I have seen for our UK purposes, which look at babies in the developed world , look at gastric infections and ear infections in the baby, and breast cancer in the mother....these do seem to increase proportionate to the amount of non-exclusivity of bf.

It can be very hard in our society for women to bf exclusively for six months, and they may well have to consider a lot of factors, over and beyond health, when deciding how far to go with it. It's a poor show for a 21st century society when large numbers of women find circumstances - poor health service support and information, pressures from job or family, inflexible lifestyle pressures - conspire to lessen the chance they can give their babies nothing but the milk intended for them.

Posting late - insomnia

[tiktok]

Meant to say in all that, that I basically agree with you, Twinkle

I'm just a teensy bit uncomfortable at the idea that somehow combination feeding should be promoted - even when it's explained as an alternative to stopping breastfeeding entirely, mothers need to know it may not be easy to maintain breastfeeding for as long as they wish, and it certainly does have an impact on health. That way, they're not misled.