establishing bf for big babies

[manna]

ds2 popped out a week ago, at 9lb 10oz. ds1 was 10lb 3oz and I really felt that for the first few weeks I was always running to catch up with him, as far as my milk supply was concerned. I would like to avoid that this time round. I know they say that there's always enough, but what do you do when your baby has the body (and presumably tummy?) of a 6 - 8week old but the feeding skills of a newborn? I have fed little and often, but that didn't fill them up, so now my milks in I'm feeding every 3.5 - 4 hrs, which seems to work fine, or sooner if he needs it. I know that suppply is stimulated by the sucking, but am I also right in thinking it mainly refills once the breast is completely empty? If so, would pumping the breast he's finished, just to make sure it's really drained, help to ensure a good refill? I know I could just start him on that at the next feed, but I'm happy to express the little that's left and give him it as a top up in the night, to really fill him up. Left overs only amount to an oz or two. Any suggestions welcome.

[katierocket]

manna, I think it's hard because they're all different. my ds was 9lb 13oz but he was always a good feeder (made up for it with bloody colic for 3 months but there you go!)I didn't think that they refilled when empty, I thought it sort of 'topped up' but maybe completely wrong there.
also are you concerned that you are feeding every 3.5 hours? seems normal to me for a newborn.

[elliott]

manna I think Ghosty is the current expert on feeding big babies! It sounds like you are doing great though. I had a 9 lb second baby after a 7lb first baby and I found that the second one fed much less frequently (3-ish hourly rather than 1-2 hourly!) - it may just be that you are doing better this time aroudn nothing to do with his weight. I think you will find things go fine if you just feed him a good feed when he seems hungry, doubt whether you need to express unless you want to.

[fairyprincess]

My little one was 3920g 2 wks early. I newborn has a tum the size of a walnut/ it's the size of the baby's clenched up fist. The feeding rhythm sounds good - I fed my dds on demand as well. Your right about sucking letting the body know to make milk. Supply and demand are intertwined. The milk at the start of a feed satisfies thirst and is like a starter for the rich hindmilk that comes in as you feed. The hindmilk is made as you feed rather than stored up. I wouldn't bother with expressing as you seem to have a good supply & ds feeds well. I slept in the same bed as dds so that when I fed at night I didn't have to get up best wishes

[tiktok]

Fairyprincess - where have you got the info that the hindmilk is made only as the baby feeds? I think you might have misunderstood something.....the breasts make only one sort of milk. The more watery components of it trickle down to the 'front' end of the breast - there for whenever the baby wants to feed. Then, as the milk is removed, the milk becomes creamier, as the fattier components which have been 'sticking' to the milk storage cells are pushed out as the feed progresses. The less milk in the breast, the creamier it is. No one needs to worry about any of this, as the baby sorts it all out, and the breasts are never really 'empty' though they may be fuller at some times than at others.

Big babies with big appetites remove more milk, and this stimulates the breast to make more. Manna, you don't need to express unless you really want to.

[fairyprincess]

Tiktok,
perhaps my english wasn't so good in making a short explaination of the following -

www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/en.asp?TopicID=74&AreaID=3763&LinkID=2838

• Hindmilk is produced gradually as feed progresses
  
  and
  
  www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/foremilk-hindmilk.html
  Milk gradually increases in fat content
  
  so hindmilk is created during a feed from the liquid components and fat components. At some point it is classed as hindmilk. Foremilk can be extracted at the beginning of a feed as some always exists in the lactating breast.
  
  Hope all is well manna

[tiktok]

I see what you mean, FP.....the kellymom site says the same as I did, below. The NHS site is generally not very good about breastfeeding.

It's not that the breast produces different sorts of milk. It's just that the fattier bits of it become available to the baby as the feed progresses.

[Utka]

I do sympathise with your concerns! DD2 is now nearly 12 weeks, and was 10lb 9oz at birth. I too worried about how much and how frequently she was going to feed (dd1 was 9lb, 7oz and I too felt like I was never producing enough).

I think big babies are generally able to go for longer than smaller ones between feeds. For example, both dd1 and dd2 have generally fed every 3-4 hours from the start. However, towards the end of the day, dd2 does 'cluster feed' (every 2 hours or so). This then means that after the late evening feed (for which we wake her around 10.30pm before we go to bed), she only wakes once in the night (around 4am), before going through to 7 am. She's done this from the beginninng really.

Dd2 is also much more efficient than dd1, taking on average only 15 mins for a total feed, and often only taking one side. DD1 took 40-50 minutes. I'm glad it was this way round, otherwise I would have worried that she wasn't getting enough. Because the efficient feeder is my second though, I'm more confident about what I'm doing.

I tend to express the second boob if I've got time, and if I'm confident that she's had a good go at the first and isn't going to want to feed again immediately (we haven't really got her taking from a bottle just yet).

Sounds like you're doing ok. Good luck!!

[Ghosty]

Elliot ... Me? An expert? ... LOL!
Manna ... congratulations on the birth of your baby
My DD was 10lbs 10oz at birth and this is what I did from day one to establish my milk (she was born by C/S ... another reason for wanting to get supply going asap ...):
From day 1 I woke her every 3 hours during the day time from about 7ish in the morning ... until 9 or 10 at night ... If she wanted feeding before 3 hours was up then that was ok ...
Just before I went to bed for the first 2 weeks I expressed what was left in each breast just to make myself comfy and avoid engorgement in the night ... I never expressed at any other time nor did I need to 'top her up'.
From about 4 weeks DD woke up a bit more during the day time and would be awake for a little while after a feed ... and so then I began to let her take the lead a bit more.
I have found that what Tiktok says is true ... that now at 14 weeks even if my breast feels 'empty' it never actually is. I have never had to top up DD ... but she has had the odd bottle of EBM if I have had to go out for some reason without her. During growth spurts DD does feed more often and now she is older I so find that sometimes (usually in the evening) she needs to feed from both breasts.
I have never let myself worry about having 'enough' milk ... I have learned to trust my body ... it WILL produce what my baby needs ... I had a teeny temptation last week to try some baby rice early and I am glad that I resisted it as DD was just having a growth spurt and is back to normal.
Bit longwinded this post ... but I hope it helps a bit ...
cheers ...
G x

[mears]

Well done Ghosty

Manna - I would say try and keep feeding as simple as possible and go by the baby's demand rather than relating needs to size. My friend 's last son weighed 12lb 2oz! He only breastfed from one breast at a time and was absolutely fine on that. A body that makes a big baby knows how to feed it. Express by all means but only if you feel you want to. You don't 'need' to.

[manna]

thanks everyone - it's true, he does seem fine, and like Utkas, has been feeding 11pmish, then once in the night since birth, barring a couple of nights. It was probably just paranoia that he'd be like his brother, but ds2 is much more chilled out. However, he is jaundiced, and a very sleepy feeder, so my issue now is to get him to drink MORE to 'wash' the jaundice out, which in turn will help him to perk up and feed quicker. It's a bit chicken and egg really!

[Rhubarb]

Oops, should have posted my rant here instead of in the other thread! I feel bad now as I've probably made the poor woman who started the weight gain thread feel even worse than she already did!

In a nutshell though: baby is 5 months old, weighs over a stone, b/f for 45 mins, 4.5 times a day (trying to drop the last one), just started solids. Me down to 8 stone, which is worrying. Friends and family implying that I am over-feeding him. It is alarming as neither myself nor my dh are very big, nor is anyone in our family. Yet he is this huge monster that fits 9 month old clothes! And I seem to be whittling away. Any advice?