Clicking and gulping at breast and bottle - hysterical hungry baby - help please?

[liquidclocks]

DS2 is 6 and half weeks and has been a sloppy feeder from the start. However a few weeks ago I got thrush and so did he and we moved his feeds more to EBM as I'm a wimp and wasn't coping with the pain. Things got better as we were both treated and I did more BF with him again which was fine. About 5/6 days ago he got thrush again and a few days later I was sufferering too - I've treated us both again and we seemt to be getting better thankfully.

Unfortunately though his already pants feeding style has deteriorated further. He clicks/gulps at both breast and bottle and I'm certain he's not drinking properly at each feed as he's hungry again around and hour and a half later - also at over 12lbs he's only ever managing 3hrs between feeds even at night where a few weeks ago he manged 5/6 on a number of consecutive nights. I do think he's getting enough though as he still seems to be thriving - just in smaller doses.

I need him to eat properly at each feed as I can't be tied to him as I have an energetic DS1 to look after.
I need him to take the bottle as well as breast as I go back to work at Christmas 2 days a week.
Bu mostly I want him to be happier and stop screaming at me while I try to feed him!

All advice and ideas welcome - we're geting desperate!

[liquidclocks]

Clicking on the breast I suppose I could see a BF counsellor for but do you think they'd be able to help with the bottle? I'm also getting to that point where I'll be primarily bottle feeding (hopefully mostly EBM) due to work commitments, though I'd like to keep the evening feed a BF. I've had my latch checked quite a lot now, especially with the thrush and everyone seems to think it's fine and when I'm without thrush it's pain free (for me!).

DS1 had major sucking problems too but he refused the breast altogether and after 3/4 weeks of looking and some help from a great paediatritian we found a teat he could get on with. With DS2 I've now exhausted all possibilities I know of except a haberman teat but I'm really not sure as a set of those bottles would come to a weeks wages for me.

[comebacksummer]

liquidclocks-i too fell for the haberman through desperation as neither of my dds would take ANY bottle-unfortunatelky they both hated it, so money down the drain. Eventually, at 14 months, dd2 took an NUK bottle which has a latex teat and squirts upwards instead of forwards, more like a boob- much, much cheaper than the £20 haberman which is also really tricky to feed from (try lining up two almost invisible lines when you haven't had any sleep) and really just for babies with difficulties such as cleft palate. You can get NUK bottles in some large Boots' stores but I've never been able to get the latex teats there- try pharmacy2u.com which is great and cheap too. Good luck! ( the bad news is that I never got DD1 to take any milk from any kind of bottle, ever...sorry)

[comebacksummer]

sorry, pharmacy2u.co.uk

[liquidclocks]

Thanks comebacksummer, sometimes it's so hard to tell whether these things are expensive because they're fab and work or becuase they're a gimmick or fad. We've tried the orthodontic latex NUK teats as we'd some in supply from trying with DS1 but we've had no sucess there either. Other teats include the avent wide neck, standard neck silicone and the pink floppy ones you get in hospital (which were the ones we got for DS1 that worked). All very different shapes, none are right.

I've had a look in his mouth and he does have a high arch but he's not tongue tied or anything.

Have just put him to bed screaming with hiccups, gripe water ineffective and I think he's still hungry as he's rooting but he won't feed.

[hub2dee]

Are you near Oxford ?

We went to a bf clinic and there was a clicking baby there ! The counsellor helped mum tweak latching position, baby cradling position etc. (very gently, very subtle), and pretty much straight away.... silence ! (I appreciate everyone will be different, and he might be clicking for other reasons, but it was interesting !).

hth

[PrettyCandles]

IME the clicking is an indication that he's taking in air while he's feeding. Improviing his latch will sort that out, will also help with your pain, and should result in him feeding mor effectively and therfore getting more milk into him at each feed. You need to see a BFC.

[hoxtonchick]

my dd clicked when she was about 3 months old. i went to see a bfc who said that my milk was flowing so fast & with such abundance that dd didn't have to make any effort & therefore didn't have a very good latch. i had to position her carefully, & take her off the breast & re-position every time she clicked. it worked. and i'm still feeding her now at 16 months. hth.

[liquidclocks]

Thanks. It's so frustrating being told your latch is ok in one place and then another and then you come on here (and MN crowd are generally right!) and realise it's not right still. I suppose a lot of people's criteria has been 'does it hurt' and because it doesn't (when the thrush isn't there) it all seems ok.

hub2dee - unfortunately I'm a long way off in Lancaster.

Do I just ring the NCT or La Leche to see a counsellor then, I seem to have exhausted the hospital staff!

[hub2dee]

Yes, I'd try those two avenues tbh. I'm no expert, but I take it there aren't any physical causes which can cause the click (tongue-tie etc. etc. ) ? The associations hold bf 'cafés' and there might be a local meeting with a decent counsellor who could help you ?

[hamstermunker]

Clicking, IME, was over-generous and fast letdown and a mouth that wasn't big enough to cope with the volume of milk it was getting with little effort.

He's 6.5 weeks old - typical growth spurt time.

If you do have over-generous supply (does this sound familiar - massively gushing spray if DS unlatches, milk pouring out round his mouth as he feeds?), the reason he is hungry again quickly could be that he's getting lots of foremilk - can you try feeding him on one side for a couple of feeds in a row (Tiktok has posted a lot about one sided feeding - search the archives for her v helpful posts).

If it's not that, then am sure someone else will know!

[hub2dee]

The one and only. We're from London, but I would have been happy to spend a week in a hotel as her advice, support etc. are undoubtedly outstanding. She is extremely dedicated. And I owe her a donation to the clinic which is bang out of order. I will sort that on Monday !

[liquidclocks]

I do have quite a lot of milk and it does continue to squirt after he comes off so that could be it. Will have a look for tiktok's advice on the other threads.

Any suggestions about clicking/gulping on the bottle? HV (who is usualy your one in a million good ones thankfully) said try a faster flow teat but that made it worse.

My fear is that all this is actually some sort of nipple confusion and that really it's that if I stuck to either breast or bottle he would get the hang of it with time and effort. The trouble is that if it is that then the bottle will have to win because I can't take him to work with me.

[liquidclocks]

Thanks for the reassurance Kayzed. I'm going to give the orthodontic wide neck NUK teats ago, tried standard neck last time and they were too small for his big mouth! Also fantastically DH is off this week so I'm going to be able to go without toddler to a BF group I've been unable to go to until now - hope they can help.