not enough milk

[puppydavies]

sorry, will be long...

i've heard a million times that it's incredibly rare for a mother to not have enough milk, i'm wondering whether i might be that rare woman, and how i should address my bf issues if they happen again with my second baby, due may. (am totally open to possibility that this one may just have a better suck or whatever).

colicky baby but remained very unsettled till 6 months or so. slow gainer (urged by heartless gp to buy formula on way home @3 months cos i was starving her). fed on demand, slung, co-slept, never tried to regulate her feeds in any way.

regularly attended bf group, latch, positioning etc checked by (very experienced, trained, pro-bf etc.) hv at the group, assured all was well. ate porridge, took fenugreek. could express an ounce in the bath by hand, less by hand pump, never tried electric pump. never any pain, problems, cracking or reluctance on my part.

by 5 months she was feeding for 1 hour, every 2 hours and her weight had dropped from centre centile (yes i know charts aren't everything but it's the whole pattern) to just above the bottom one (in the pink bit). in her whole life i don;t think i'd ever seen her drop off the breast with that drunk satisfaction look i see in other babes.

at 5 mo, on advice of bf group hv (who was fully behind the 6-month recommendation) i started her on solids. she ate an entire apple in first meal and wanted more. she became happier, more settled and gained weight much faster from then on. we carried on feeding until 14 months. now, at 3, she's taller than average and very solid.

i now firmly believe that she was not getting enough milk in those first 5 months, and this contributed to her to being unsettled, sleeping very poorly and the fact that we were virtually pinned to the sofa for months.

what to do if i see the same pattern emerging this time? did i miss a trick trying to increase my supply? i recently spoke to someone whose milk literally never came in and she was given medication at the hospital which worked like magic - could that be an option? should i be thinking about formula supplements? or should i just say this is one end of the "normal" bf spectrum and resign myself to it?

any advice/experience very much appreciated.

[bluejelly]

There was a thread about this fairly recently I will try and find

[bluejelly]

So sorry I couldn't find it

[Judy1234]

Well a lot of babies are over fed and get fat so there's an argument for underfeeding them in some ways. Make sure you're looking at the newly issued weight charts of WHO not those based on fatter bottle fed babies which have just been brought into disrepute.

I would just keep drinking a lot of fluids yourself. Relax as much as you can. Don't bother with expressing or worrying about quantities and as long as the child looks healthy and isn't listless without energy you're probably doing fine.

Did you ever feel the milk "let down" which is a particular feeling you get before it starts gushing out?

[throckenholt]

it may have had nothing to do with you - she just may not have been very good at getting the milk out.

Won't necessarily happen the same next time.

[puppydavies]

throckenholt, i'm really hoping that's the case, but i'd like to have as many fall back plans as possible in case it isn't.

yep xenia my (very laid back and supportive) hv got me the breast fed from birth chart as soon as weight became an issue. i think part of the trouble is that it became a vicious circle - a grumpy, non-sleeping baby who just wants to feed constantly doesn't exactly promote a relaxed mother, kwim? i did just give up on trying to do anything else and settled down with a big cushion and a laptop for a couple of months, but that won't be an option for me this time with a preschooler to look after too. i only mention expressing as that's sometimes recommended as a way to increase supply, pumping between feeds. yes, i did feel a letdown.

thanks for looking bluejelly, i'm scouring the archives now, but i've yet to hit a thread where someone's tried every trick in the book, which i felt that i did - certainly every one i'd heard.

thanks all for your thoughts, don't mean to be dismissive, just hoping someone will come up with a magical suggestion i'd never heard before.

[tiktok]

puppy - what went on after birth and what were the first days like?

I ask this, because sometimes mothers who have had a slow/difficult/full of obstacles start get over it and go on to have a great bf experience, and others don't.

Getting it right in the early hours and days can be crucial....

[tiktok]

Here's the thread

this one

discussion on low milk supply and whether it will persist.

[puppydavies]

thanks for that tiktok, that's my evening's reading sorted. and sorry for bringing this up again if it's been done to death recently - it's not always obvious what to search for.

long labour/ventouse, but almost immediate skin-to-skin, for at least an hour and she fed in that time. supported at home and in hospital, checked latch etc. all seemed to be going swimmingly for the first 10 days or so, then the colic kicked in...

[NotQuiteCockney]

I haven't checked the old thread, but thought I'd have my say: my situation with DS1 sounds a lot like your first baby. Well, he had a rough time in the first 24 hours, and didn't get skin to skin until about 30 hours after birth , and then had latch issues, and shields. I never felt I had enough milk, he didn't gain well. He was reasonably happy, but never ever fat, at all.

I started solids at 16 weeks (as was the advice then ... sort of). It didn't help that much, but he did get a bit bigger.

DS2 had a better arrival, and my supply was a lot better with him. Partly down to his better arrival, but also down to him being a second child, after I bf DS1 for 18 months.

[puppydavies]

that's a really reassuring story nqc, thanks. i know it sounds defeatist to assume i'll have problems second time round, and really i'm not going in expecting it, just wanting to be as prepared as i can, whilst hoping against hope it'll just fall into place.

[NotQuiteCockney]

Supply definately does improve with each baby - I know this because women who have oversupply problems (scary letdown, spraying across the room etc) find them worse with each baby.

Having fed your first for 14 months, you should be well set up to have a good supply for your second.

[puppydavies]

well i've worked through that thread, and i suppose i can just add to the list of boxes checked - dd never took a dummy (despite repeated attempts, lol) and never had a bottle either. i had total support from my partner (practical and emotional) and feel i had very good general support - was literally surrounded by bfers a lot of the time

it's tricky because we were borderline successful - there wasn't any obvious and catastrophic failure to thrive that required immediate intervention, just a perpetual slog, that never seemed to work quite right.

[tiktok]

puppy, you are an 'interesting case' I absolutely understand what you're saying - nothing desperate happened, your baby thrived (after a fashion) but you never got the feeling it was all a breeze and that he was totally happy with his feeding. I think I would have looked carefully at the colic and worked on that, if I'd been in touch with you - even going down not-very-well-researched byways like the contents of your diet, the way you held him and stuff.

It's certainly true that mothers seem to get more milk with subsequent babies, though....so it might all be just great.

[puppydavies]

it really is reassuring to hear that repeated, as it's not something i'd heard before.

tiktok, (i take it you're a bfc or similar?) do you think medication might be worth considering, if we hit the same pattern again? i'd never heard of it being prescribed locally before i met the woman i mentioned a couple of months ago. i realise it's not a first resort but i felt we'd exhausted all the possibilities last time, and it's preferable to introducing formula, surely?

[NappiesGalore]

ihad 3 bf babies in 3 years... first one was a devil to get started, and after that, fine enough.

and the bit you'll like, even though its anecdotal etc: second one a doddle! great latch, fed like a mad thing, gained weight like a sumo wrestler (back to birth weight in about 4 days IIRC)

3rd one - again v difficult to get started. was OK but not quite right (and i was getting sore). turned out to be a tongue tie, which i have a strong feeling was involved forst time too.

do please check that avenue thorougly as it seems to be something v rarely talked about/pretty unknown. and so simple to fix!

i def found that milk supply was better with subsequent babies.

big respect for continuing with bf first time round - it take a lot of belief in the face of GP's telling you LO's starving (fgs)

oh - and expressing - couldnt express for love nor money first time round, bit better second, and easy as pie third. so that gets easier too.

x

[tiktok]

Yes, puppy, I am an NCT bfc.

I think it would be fine to talk about medication with your doc - it can make a difference.

[AitchTwoOh]

i had difficulties with supply and did everything it was possible to do to improve it, with some success but never quite enough iykwim?
i was given the domperidone meds at about 6 weeks and they helped, and i was told that i should contact the BFing specialist unit in advance of having my next baby (if i should be so fortunate) so that i can start off on the meds from as soon as my milk comes in. good luck with everything next time, and you might want to have a look at an amby hammock if you're really serious about sleep issues. i had one, and it was a bit of a godsend.

[puppydavies]

thanks everyone for your replies, i've found this thread is really helping me to feel much more positive about our prospects. i'll make sure i get to the bf group (hope it's still same fabby hv) before the birth and have a chat about things.

ng - dd never showed any signs of tt but if we have probs this time will make sure it's checked out.

aitch, funny you should mention the amby - i've been offered a deal on a new amby-alike and i'm dithering as it's still a lot of money. but if it actually works it'll be worth its weight in gold.

[AitchTwoOh]

dd slept through at 6 weeks in hers. well not through, through, but as through as you can get at 6 weeks, you know... say about 5-6 hours at night. worht its blimmin weight in gold. how alike is it to the amby, though? other hammocks are not the same, the secret is in the mega-spring.
i've lent mine to a friend who's having twins but she's bought another one cos she reckons that they cost £190 but re-sell on ebay for £130 so she'll only be about £60 down.

[puppydavies]

it's one of these aitch. to me it looks very similar to the amby, only poncier have been offered substantial discount, and also relying on eventual ebay resale.

[LYNNETTE]

My milk supply was complete opposite I breastfeed my 1st child, everything was great he gained weight sleep well through the night early on, but with my 2nd child i tried to feed first 4 days her weight dropped quite a bit, tried expressing milk nothing happened. With her constant crying from day one i was convinced it was because i was starving her so i put her on a bottle, crying continued. GP at 6 weeks said some babies just have that type of personality and cry... she refused formula milk, was given a syringe to try and feed her (refused bottles) then put her on lactose free formula milk which helped, started feeding her around 15 weeks slow to gain weight still crying finally after 11 months told by specialist she needs to be on a milk free and lactose free diet. Sleeping better at night and less crying episodes. sorry i did not mean to go on and on.
If for whatever reason you are unable to breastfeed then why worry i was unable with my 2nd and still when i met other mothers while feeding baby a bottle they would express their opinion that breast was best, which angered me a little because i breastfed my son first time around with no problems and also before i knew, i would be explaining to complete strangers why i was holding a bottle of formula milk to my daughter.
Has anyone else found themselves explaining anything to complete strangers all because they felt the need to give an opinion.

[AitchTwoOh]

oooh puppy, that looks really nice and tres tres poncy. i take it the spring is in the sock thing at the top? BUY IT! (how much are they asking?)

[AitchTwoOh]

is it the fancy-pants oberon one or the more prosaic frame below?

[AitchTwoOh]

oh and lynette... ALL the time in the beginning... ALL THE TIME.

[puppydavies]

lynette - i wouldn't have a problem ffing if i were unable to bf - but i could and did, exclusively for 5 months. like i said before, we were borderline successful and health professionals differed in their advice. i would consider supplementing next time if i felt i'd exhausted all the options.

aitch - definitely the oberon frame, i'm desperately shallow don't know how much exactly, perk of working in fabby baby shop.